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"At least we have our freedom. "Sovrinty | |||
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"UK-NZ Government figures show we will be worse off? Liz Truss, what a genius "I can’t handle all this ‘winning’  | |||
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"As usual, some only see the headline! Marginally slightly worse off (maybe) on 0.2% of our world trade but with the chance to increase trade. The bigger prize is membership of TPCPP, of which NZ is already a member. " Are we now a member of TPCPP? Let’s be honest, the deal stinks | |||
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"As usual, some only see the headline! Marginally slightly worse off (maybe) on 0.2% of our world trade but with the chance to increase trade. The bigger prize is membership of TPCPP, of which NZ is already a member. Are we now a member of TPCPP? Let’s be honest, the deal stinks " Not yet but there is nothing in this deal that we didn't really have before. | |||
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"As usual, some only see the headline! Marginally slightly worse off (maybe) on 0.2% of our world trade but with the chance to increase trade. The bigger prize is membership of TPCPP, of which NZ is already a member. the poster has form on this he only posts negative or half stories he’s from Teesside but hasn’t mentioned the news about thousands of jobs coming up here with a new carbon capture plant that was announced yesterday in the news it’s sad really the poor bugger " As usual, you get it wrong. You were banging on about 20k jobs from the free port. For that to happen Tees port would have to become double the size of Immingham, or be a company that is one 5th the size of Amazon in the UK. Carbon capture is as yet a project, nothing on the ground, the energy minister said it "there were significant risks to delivery" Please try to stick to facts. | |||
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"As usual, some only see the headline! Marginally slightly worse off (maybe) on 0.2% of our world trade but with the chance to increase trade. The bigger prize is membership of TPCPP, of which NZ is already a member. Are we now a member of TPCPP? Let’s be honest, the deal stinks Not yet but there is nothing in this deal that we didn't really have before. " Exactly, | |||
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"As usual, some only see the headline! Marginally slightly worse off (maybe) on 0.2% of our world trade but with the chance to increase trade. The bigger prize is membership of TPCPP, of which NZ is already a member. " Exactly this some people just dont see the big picture. Also no one has seen the small print as its not been sorted yet. | |||
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"As usual, some only see the headline! Marginally slightly worse off (maybe) on 0.2% of our world trade but with the chance to increase trade. The bigger prize is membership of TPCPP, of which NZ is already a member. Exactly this some people just dont see the big picture. Also no one has seen the small print as its not been sorted yet. " So we are on the brink of joining the TPCPP? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise. "We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd  | |||
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"Another kick in the plums for British Farming. " Why is that then? Is it cheaper to ship farm products from NZ than from the farms here ? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd "yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it? "Great for the environment, it’s called the Trans Pacific for a reason. It is laughable if you think they will let us join on equal terms, | |||
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"Another kick in the plums for British Farming. Why is that then? Is it cheaper to ship farm products from NZ than from the farms here ?" It is if the farm products are significantly cheaper to produce, why do you think NZ have signed this deal? No wonder they are so happy | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
Great for the environment, it’s called the Trans Pacific for a reason. It is laughable if you think they will let us join on equal terms, "Whys that then ? what is your reason for saying that? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
Great for the environment, it’s called the Trans Pacific for a reason. It is laughable if you think they will let us join on equal terms, Whys that then ? what is your reason for saying that?"We offer them nothing, we produce nothing they want or can’t get amongst themselves cheaper plus we are 1000s of miles away from them all. | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
Great for the environment, it’s called the Trans Pacific for a reason. It is laughable if you think they will let us join on equal terms, Whys that then ? what is your reason for saying that?
We offer them nothing, we produce nothing they want or can’t get amongst themselves cheaper plus we are 1000s of miles away from them all. "We are the 6th largest economy in the world why would countries turn down a chance to trade? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it? ""Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
Great for the environment, it’s called the Trans Pacific for a reason. It is laughable if you think they will let us join on equal terms, Whys that then ? what is your reason for saying that?
We offer them nothing, we produce nothing they want or can’t get amongst themselves cheaper plus we are 1000s of miles away from them all. We are the 6th largest economy in the world why would countries turn down a chance to trade?"Irrelevant, we do very little trade with them individually what do we bring to the table, what do we have that they want? Btw, they are thousands of miles away | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on?"no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions. This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me. | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
Great for the environment, it’s called the Trans Pacific for a reason. It is laughable if you think they will let us join on equal terms, Whys that then ? what is your reason for saying that?
We offer them nothing, we produce nothing they want or can’t get amongst themselves cheaper plus we are 1000s of miles away from them all. We are the 6th largest economy in the world why would countries turn down a chance to trade?
Irrelevant, we do very little trade with them individually what do we bring to the table, what do we have that they want? Btw, they are thousands of miles away "so is china mate we seem to deal with them quite a bit dont you think? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
Great for the environment, it’s called the Trans Pacific for a reason. It is laughable if you think they will let us join on equal terms, Whys that then ? what is your reason for saying that?
We offer them nothing, we produce nothing they want or can’t get amongst themselves cheaper plus we are 1000s of miles away from them all. We are the 6th largest economy in the world why would countries turn down a chance to trade?
Irrelevant, we do very little trade with them individually what do we bring to the table, what do we have that they want? Btw, they are thousands of miles away so is china mate we seem to deal with them quite a bit dont you think?"China mass produce at very low costs, what do we have that the CPTPP want? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
Great for the environment, it’s called the Trans Pacific for a reason. It is laughable if you think they will let us join on equal terms, Whys that then ? what is your reason for saying that?
We offer them nothing, we produce nothing they want or can’t get amongst themselves cheaper plus we are 1000s of miles away from them all. We are the 6th largest economy in the world why would countries turn down a chance to trade?
Irrelevant, we do very little trade with them individually what do we bring to the table, what do we have that they want? Btw, they are thousands of miles away so is china mate we seem to deal with them quite a bit dont you think?
China mass produce at very low costs, what do we have that the CPTPP want? "they are still a long way away. you could ask that about any deal what did we have that your precious eu wanted apart from our money and defence? | |||
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"As usual, some only see the headline! Marginally slightly worse off (maybe) on 0.2% of our world trade but with the chance to increase trade. The bigger prize is membership of TPCPP, of which NZ is already a member. the poster has form on this he only posts negative or half stories he’s from Teesside but hasn’t mentioned the news about thousands of jobs coming up here with a new carbon capture plant that was announced yesterday in the news it’s sad really the poor bugger " No mention of the ford deal disclosed the other day either, some people only ever see negatives it seems. | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me. "Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
Great for the environment, it’s called the Trans Pacific for a reason. It is laughable if you think they will let us join on equal terms, Whys that then ? what is your reason for saying that?
We offer them nothing, we produce nothing they want or can’t get amongst themselves cheaper plus we are 1000s of miles away from them all. We are the 6th largest economy in the world why would countries turn down a chance to trade?
Irrelevant, we do very little trade with them individually what do we bring to the table, what do we have that they want? Btw, they are thousands of miles away so is china mate we seem to deal with them quite a bit dont you think?
China mass produce at very low costs, what do we have that the CPTPP want? they are still a long way away. you could ask that about any deal what did we have that your precious eu wanted apart from our money and defence?"I think you will find the EU nations are significantly closer than the CPTPP, even china is closer than most of them. What do we have to offer them that they can’t already get cheaper from elsewhere | |||
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"As usual, some only see the headline! Marginally slightly worse off (maybe) on 0.2% of our world trade but with the chance to increase trade. The bigger prize is membership of TPCPP, of which NZ is already a member. the poster has form on this he only posts negative or half stories he’s from Teesside but hasn’t mentioned the news about thousands of jobs coming up here with a new carbon capture plant that was announced yesterday in the news it’s sad really the poor bugger No mention of the ford deal disclosed the other day either, some people only ever see negatives it seems." That was a good deal, especially for Ford, how much did the government pay them? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?"Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
Great for the environment, it’s called the Trans Pacific for a reason. It is laughable if you think they will let us join on equal terms, Whys that then ? what is your reason for saying that?
We offer them nothing, we produce nothing they want or can’t get amongst themselves cheaper plus we are 1000s of miles away from them all. We are the 6th largest economy in the world why would countries turn down a chance to trade?
Irrelevant, we do very little trade with them individually what do we bring to the table, what do we have that they want? Btw, they are thousands of miles away so is china mate we seem to deal with them quite a bit dont you think?
China mass produce at very low costs, what do we have that the CPTPP want? they are still a long way away. you could ask that about any deal what did we have that your precious eu wanted apart from our money and defence?
I think you will find the EU nations are significantly closer than the CPTPP, even china is closer than most of them. What do we have to offer them that they can’t already get cheaper from elsewhere "A tariff free market just like they offer us.  | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?"Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
Great for the environment, it’s called the Trans Pacific for a reason. It is laughable if you think they will let us join on equal terms, Whys that then ? what is your reason for saying that?
We offer them nothing, we produce nothing they want or can’t get amongst themselves cheaper plus we are 1000s of miles away from them all. We are the 6th largest economy in the world why would countries turn down a chance to trade?
Irrelevant, we do very little trade with them individually what do we bring to the table, what do we have that they want? Btw, they are thousands of miles away so is china mate we seem to deal with them quite a bit dont you think?
China mass produce at very low costs, what do we have that the CPTPP want? they are still a long way away. you could ask that about any deal what did we have that your precious eu wanted apart from our money and defence?
I think you will find the EU nations are significantly closer than the CPTPP, even china is closer than most of them. What do we have to offer them that they can’t already get cheaper from elsewhere A tariff free market just like they offer us. "Is that it? We must be desperate if we are trying to join a Trans Pacific trade agreement, we offer them nothing and like I keep saying, they are thousands of miles away | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ "No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that. Got it now? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?"So his job (which appears to be to break trade deals he wrote) needs doing, but everyone elses don't? | |||
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"As usual, some only see the headline! Marginally slightly worse off (maybe) on 0.2% of our world trade but with the chance to increase trade. The bigger prize is membership of TPCPP, of which NZ is already a member. " So we can lose a little bit more then?? We are a service economy . 17% of our economy is manufacturing ( not all exports remember ). We will end up buying more imports as with the Japan deal so our balance of payments will get even worse over time. It’s promise of a tomorrow that won’t help us at all. Maybe we can sell the Chinese some submarines too!! Headline trade deal numbers are mostly bollicks as we all know. . It’s like saying we are the fifth biggest economy . Yes we are but and it’s a big but when you look at the detail we rank 34 in productivity and our debt is predicted to be 110% of our economy . Yes we’re heading up that debt league table. Do you really think we can afford to take on these cheap labour countries ? I think we will regret losing the protectionism we had with the EU. I hope I’m wrong . As for the waste of money on twin parliaments I agree it was totally wasteful and needed sorting but that few hundred million pales into insignificance compared to the hundreds of billions we have already lost . Cutting off nose to spite your face comes to mind . | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now? "I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? | |||
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"As usual, some only see the headline! Marginally slightly worse off (maybe) on 0.2% of our world trade but with the chance to increase trade. The bigger prize is membership of TPCPP, of which NZ is already a member. So we can lose a little bit more then?? We are a service economy . 17% of our economy is manufacturing ( not all exports remember ). We will end up buying more imports as with the Japan deal so our balance of payments will get even worse over time. It’s promise of a tomorrow that won’t help us at all. Maybe we can sell the Chinese some submarines too!! Headline trade deal numbers are mostly bollicks as we all know. . It’s like saying we are the fifth biggest economy . Yes we are but and it’s a big but when you look at the detail we rank 34 in productivity and our debt is predicted to be 110% of our economy . Yes we’re heading up that debt league table. Do you really think we can afford to take on these cheap labour countries ? I think we will regret losing the protectionism we had with the EU. I hope I’m wrong . As for the waste of money on twin parliaments I agree it was totally wasteful and needed sorting but that few hundred million pales into insignificance compared to the hundreds of billions we have already lost . Cutting off nose to spite your face comes to mind . " I saw a great cartoon recently, it showed a man in hospital who had his legs amputated and the nurse was telling him not to worry because the man in the next bed wanted to buy his shoes, that’s Brexit | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? "Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere. | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere. "No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere. "In case you missed it, a significant chunk of the world now sits in regional trade groups, such as the EU. Trump tried individual bespoke trade deals. Didn't go so well. | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? "Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways. Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries. Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year. I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better. | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways.
Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries.
Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year.
I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better. "That doesn't answer the questions posed. | |||
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"Another kick in the plums for British Farming. Why is that then? Is it cheaper to ship farm products from NZ than from the farms here ?" The tariff on NZ lamb for example is something like 80% I think…. Which means that it protected UK lamb producers from being flooded .. which is the other thing I noticed, no limit on how much can come in… which means if they can produce it cheaper due to economies of scale, there is nothing to in effect stop them from dumping | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways.
Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries.
Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year.
I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better.
That doesn't answer the questions posed."well sorry if its hard to understand for you but i cant put it any clearer. | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways.
Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries.
Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year.
I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better. "Do we export more than we import to these nations? I still don’t understand why they would want us to join their Trans Pacific club unless it is heavily in their favour, | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways.
Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries.
Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year.
I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better.
That doesn't answer the questions posed."Tbh, I think he is struggling to understand , you can tell he is a Boris fabn | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways.
Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries.
Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year.
I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better.
That doesn't answer the questions posed.
Tbh, I think he is struggling to understand , you can tell he is a Boris fabn "no i dont think he is going by his posts. | |||
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"Mate they have no argument how can not having to pay to join a trading partnership, doing away with tariffs be a bad thing? while joining a growing market and leaving a shrinking one its a no brainer. "Very interesting too that the ending of tariffs will lead to lower prices. These tariffs are the economic equivalent of the old Corn Laws which set wealthy landowners against consumers.. yet our Remainers are cheering on the landowners against the shoppers. They don't have a clue! | |||
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"Mate they have no argument how can not having to pay to join a trading partnership, doing away with tariffs be a bad thing? while joining a growing market and leaving a shrinking one its a no brainer. "Your missing the point, they won’t let us join, it won’t happen , the likes of NZ & Japan will prefer to stick to the individual deals they have made with the UK because they are more beneficial to them . | |||
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"Mate they have no argument how can not having to pay to join a trading partnership, doing away with tariffs be a bad thing? while joining a growing market and leaving a shrinking one its a no brainer.
Your missing the point, they won’t let us join, it won’t happen , the likes of NZ & Japan will prefer to stick to the individual deals they have made with the UK because they are more beneficial to them . "That's what you hope! You're really not looking good | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways.
Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries.
Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year.
I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better.
That doesn't answer the questions posed.well sorry if its hard to understand for you but i cant put it any clearer."Just an observation…….. Don’t you find anything remotely ironic about running into the arms of the CPTPP when the UK ran away from the biggest free trade deal on the planet……. And so many people out there were trying to push the many… many… many advantages of dealing under WTO terms…. I mean…. Wasn’t that what so many people aspired to? Like I said…. An observation | |||
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"As usual, some only see the headline! Marginally slightly worse off (maybe) on 0.2% of our world trade but with the chance to increase trade. The bigger prize is membership of TPCPP, of which NZ is already a member. the poster has form on this he only posts negative or half stories he’s from Teesside but hasn’t mentioned the news about thousands of jobs coming up here with a new carbon capture plant that was announced yesterday in the news it’s sad really the poor bugger No mention of the ford deal disclosed the other day either, some people only ever see negatives it seems. That was a good deal, especially for Ford, how much did the government pay them? " Negativity once again, don't think the official figure was disclosed, sure there is probably some stupid guesstimations in the press and on social media as always.How about the jobs its guaranteed for those working there, what about all the other jobs that will be created there and in the associated supply chains, I would think those working for Ford were very happy and many other companies across the country and in the local area which will benefit from the deal will also be happy. Maybe you could just be happy for these people knowing they will have a job next year as a positive for once. | |||
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"As usual, some only see the headline! Marginally slightly worse off (maybe) on 0.2% of our world trade but with the chance to increase trade. The bigger prize is membership of TPCPP, of which NZ is already a member. the poster has form on this he only posts negative or half stories he’s from Teesside but hasn’t mentioned the news about thousands of jobs coming up here with a new carbon capture plant that was announced yesterday in the news it’s sad really the poor bugger No mention of the ford deal disclosed the other day either, some people only ever see negatives it seems. That was a good deal, especially for Ford, how much did the government pay them? Negativity once again, don't think the official figure was disclosed, sure there is probably some stupid guesstimations in the press and on social media as always.How about the jobs its guaranteed for those working there, what about all the other jobs that will be created there and in the associated supply chains, I would think those working for Ford were very happy and many other companies across the country and in the local area which will benefit from the deal will also be happy. Maybe you could just be happy for these people knowing they will have a job next year as a positive for once." Like I said, good deal, good for Ford, partially paid for by the tax payer (I am happy to pay my share) , but why did the government have to do this? | |||
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"Mate they have no argument how can not having to pay to join a trading partnership, doing away with tariffs be a bad thing? while joining a growing market and leaving a shrinking one its a no brainer.
Your missing the point, they won’t let us join, it won’t happen , the likes of NZ & Japan will prefer to stick to the individual deals they have made with the UK because they are more beneficial to them .
That's what you hope! You're really not looking good"I am ‘hoping’ for anything, if we are singing all these ‘amazing ‘ individual deals then why join the club? | |||
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"As usual, some only see the headline! Marginally slightly worse off (maybe) on 0.2% of our world trade but with the chance to increase trade. The bigger prize is membership of TPCPP, of which NZ is already a member. the poster has form on this he only posts negative or half stories he’s from Teesside but hasn’t mentioned the news about thousands of jobs coming up here with a new carbon capture plant that was announced yesterday in the news it’s sad really the poor bugger No mention of the ford deal disclosed the other day either, some people only ever see negatives it seems. That was a good deal, especially for Ford, how much did the government pay them? Negativity once again, don't think the official figure was disclosed, sure there is probably some stupid guesstimations in the press and on social media as always.How about the jobs its guaranteed for those working there, what about all the other jobs that will be created there and in the associated supply chains, I would think those working for Ford were very happy and many other companies across the country and in the local area which will benefit from the deal will also be happy. Maybe you could just be happy for these people knowing they will have a job next year as a positive for once. Like I said, good deal, good for Ford, partially paid for by the tax payer (I am happy to pay my share) , but why did the government have to do this? " Yes its a good deal for the workers, not just Ford as I said too. You tell me why the government gave them some money? You tell me what guarantees that money bought?, I doubt those that work at Ford give a shit, they will just be happy of a job and a income for there family. Positives in there lives. | |||
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"As usual, some only see the headline! Marginally slightly worse off (maybe) on 0.2% of our world trade but with the chance to increase trade. The bigger prize is membership of TPCPP, of which NZ is already a member. the poster has form on this he only posts negative or half stories he’s from Teesside but hasn’t mentioned the news about thousands of jobs coming up here with a new carbon capture plant that was announced yesterday in the news it’s sad really the poor bugger No mention of the ford deal disclosed the other day either, some people only ever see negatives it seems. That was a good deal, especially for Ford, how much did the government pay them? Negativity once again, don't think the official figure was disclosed, sure there is probably some stupid guesstimations in the press and on social media as always.How about the jobs its guaranteed for those working there, what about all the other jobs that will be created there and in the associated supply chains, I would think those working for Ford were very happy and many other companies across the country and in the local area which will benefit from the deal will also be happy. Maybe you could just be happy for these people knowing they will have a job next year as a positive for once. Like I said, good deal, good for Ford, partially paid for by the tax payer (I am happy to pay my share) , but why did the government have to do this? Yes its a good deal for the workers, not just Ford as I said too. You tell me why the government gave them some money? You tell me what guarantees that money bought?, I doubt those that work at Ford give a shit, they will just be happy of a job and a income for there family. Positives in there lives." Good for them, I don’t understand why a huge company like Ford would need to be paid to stay here though, | |||
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"This deal brings the immediate end of 97% of tariffs and the phasing out of the other 3%. Perhaps this threads Remainers will explain why tariffs, with resultant high shop prices, are a good thing..." Why are we joining a club when we are signing amazing deals with individual nations? | |||
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"This deal brings the immediate end of 97% of tariffs and the phasing out of the other 3%. Perhaps this threads Remainers will explain why tariffs, with resultant high shop prices, are a good thing..." Seem to recall the promises about cheaper food, how's that working out | |||
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"Goverment helps with tooling and set up costs. In return, they get the tax take. This happens all over the world. Just not in the UK. " That’s true, like I said, it’s good news for Ford (a foreign owned company) and it’s good news for the workers , I | |||
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"Goverment helps with tooling and set up costs. In return, they get the tax take. This happens all over the world. Just not in the UK. " Thank you, somebody that actually understands how businesses and the big wide world works. | |||
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"We're now moving away from tariffs. Will you explain why tariffs are a good thing?" Who said they were ? | |||
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"This deal brings the immediate end of 97% of tariffs and the phasing out of the other 3%. Perhaps this threads Remainers will explain why tariffs, with resultant high shop prices, are a good thing... Seem to recall the promises about cheaper food, how's that working out "Do you understand what tariffs are? | |||
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"We're now moving away from tariffs. Will you explain why tariffs are a good thing? Who said they were ? " But this deal immediately removes 97% of tariffs...and you oppose it Why? | |||
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"We're now moving away from tariffs. Will you explain why tariffs are a good thing? Who said they were ? But this deal immediately removes 97% of tariffs...and you oppose it Why?" So your ok with cheaper imports under cutting British products? Why? | |||
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"We're now moving away from tariffs. Will you explain why tariffs are a good thing? Who said they were ? But this deal immediately removes 97% of tariffs...and you oppose it Why? So your ok with cheaper imports under cutting British products? Why? " Very much so. Tariffs are set to protect producers at the expense of consumers. In the case of food, the working person must pay above the free-market world price in order to keep the income high for landowners. They are a transfer of wealy from the poor to the rich. It's why free trade has always been a great progressive cause. Do you know history? Do you feel that you understand the issues here? Why are you supporting the wealthy? Again! | |||
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"We're now moving away from tariffs. Will you explain why tariffs are a good thing? Who said they were ? But this deal immediately removes 97% of tariffs...and you oppose it Why? So your ok with cheaper imports under cutting British products? Why? Very much so. Tariffs are set to protect producers at the expense of consumers. In the case of food, the working person must pay above the free-market world price in order to keep the income high for landowners. They are a transfer of wealy from the poor to the rich. It's why free trade has always been a great progressive cause. Do you know history? Do you feel that you understand the issues here? Why are you supporting the wealthy? Again!" So you don’t care about the British farming industry that supports thousands of British workers ? Your happy to flood the market with cheaper foreign produce ? Why? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways.
Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries.
Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year.
I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better.
That doesn't answer the questions posed.well sorry if its hard to understand for you but i cant put it any clearer.
Just an observation……..
Don’t you find anything remotely ironic about running into the arms of the CPTPP when the UK ran away from the biggest free trade deal on the planet…….
And so many people out there were trying to push the many… many… many advantages of dealing under WTO terms….
I mean…. Wasn’t that what so many people aspired to?
Like I said…. An observation "No because it wasnt free. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways.
Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries.
Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year.
I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better.
That doesn't answer the questions posed.well sorry if its hard to understand for you but i cant put it any clearer.
Just an observation……..
Don’t you find anything remotely ironic about running into the arms of the CPTPP when the UK ran away from the biggest free trade deal on the planet…….
And so many people out there were trying to push the many… many… many advantages of dealing under WTO terms….
I mean…. Wasn’t that what so many people aspired to?
Like I said…. An observation No because it wasnt free. "If you think joining the CPTPP will be ‘free’ then you are deluded | |||
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| Reply privately |
"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways.
Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries.
Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year.
I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better.
That doesn't answer the questions posed.well sorry if its hard to understand for you but i cant put it any clearer.
Just an observation……..
Don’t you find anything remotely ironic about running into the arms of the CPTPP when the UK ran away from the biggest free trade deal on the planet…….
And so many people out there were trying to push the many… many… many advantages of dealing under WTO terms….
I mean…. Wasn’t that what so many people aspired to?
Like I said…. An observation No because it wasnt free.
If you think joining the CPTPP will be ‘free’ then you are deluded "go on enlighten me what are the costs? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways.
Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries.
Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year.
I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better.
That doesn't answer the questions posed.well sorry if its hard to understand for you but i cant put it any clearer.
Just an observation……..
Don’t you find anything remotely ironic about running into the arms of the CPTPP when the UK ran away from the biggest free trade deal on the planet…….
And so many people out there were trying to push the many… many… many advantages of dealing under WTO terms….
I mean…. Wasn’t that what so many people aspired to?
Like I said…. An observation No because it wasnt free.
If you think joining the CPTPP will be ‘free’ then you are deluded go on enlighten me what are the costs?"I haven’t got a clue, but nothing in trade is ‘free’. Why do want to join another club when we were told that we wanted the freedom to go it ‘alone’, seems odd | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways.
Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries.
Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year.
I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better.
That doesn't answer the questions posed.well sorry if its hard to understand for you but i cant put it any clearer.
Just an observation……..
Don’t you find anything remotely ironic about running into the arms of the CPTPP when the UK ran away from the biggest free trade deal on the planet…….
And so many people out there were trying to push the many… many… many advantages of dealing under WTO terms….
I mean…. Wasn’t that what so many people aspired to?
Like I said…. An observation No because it wasnt free.
If you think joining the CPTPP will be ‘free’ then you are deluded go on enlighten me what are the costs?
I haven’t got a clue, but nothing in trade is ‘free’. Why do want to join another club when we were told that we wanted the freedom to go it ‘alone’, seems odd "Ahh ok so just another random comment as usual without adding anything to the debate. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways.
Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries.
Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year.
I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better.
That doesn't answer the questions posed.well sorry if its hard to understand for you but i cant put it any clearer.
Just an observation……..
Don’t you find anything remotely ironic about running into the arms of the CPTPP when the UK ran away from the biggest free trade deal on the planet…….
And so many people out there were trying to push the many… many… many advantages of dealing under WTO terms….
I mean…. Wasn’t that what so many people aspired to?
Like I said…. An observation No because it wasnt free.
If you think joining the CPTPP will be ‘free’ then you are deluded go on enlighten me what are the costs?
I haven’t got a clue, but nothing in trade is ‘free’. Why do want to join another club when we were told that we wanted the freedom to go it ‘alone’, seems odd Ahh ok so just another random comment as usual without adding anything to the debate. "Not at all, if we want join the Trans Pacific club we will have to make concessions that cost money , otherwise they won’t let us join the club . Or we could keep signing these amazing ‘individual’ trade deals and have no need to join their club. Do you want us to go it alone or do you want us to join another club? | |||
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways.
Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries.
Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year.
I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better.
That doesn't answer the questions posed.well sorry if its hard to understand for you but i cant put it any clearer.
Just an observation……..
Don’t you find anything remotely ironic about running into the arms of the CPTPP when the UK ran away from the biggest free trade deal on the planet…….
And so many people out there were trying to push the many… many… many advantages of dealing under WTO terms….
I mean…. Wasn’t that what so many people aspired to?
Like I said…. An observation No because it wasnt free.
If you think joining the CPTPP will be ‘free’ then you are deluded go on enlighten me what are the costs?"Well in the Australia deal what they also wanted was to make it easier for their citizens to come and work here….. you could call it “freedom of movement” for their citizens In the deal that India want they want to make it easier for their citizens to come work here…… you could call it “freedom of movement” for their citizens See a pattern emerging….. 
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"i think they are looking at dec 2022 to finalise.
We will see, we have sacrificed a free trade deal with out nearest neighbours in the hope of getting a deal with countries half way around the world, shrewd yes a deal where we dont have to pay to be a member dont need a separate parliament and all the 1000,s of freeloaders or another court great isnt it?
"Freeloaders" you mean the drs, nurses and care staff we depend on? no mate i mean the mep,s their assistants, interpreters the running of two parliaments and all that involves thats without their nice big fat expense accounts and over inflated pensions.
This trade deal will involve none of those costs to you or me.
Can you remind me who elected lord frost? Or is it ok to replace elected officials with appointees with over inflated pensions and expense accounts?Dont get me started on the HOL i would do away with the majority of them but to answer your question he is doing a job that needs doing how can you even compare that to the 10,000,s eu freeloaders who are not needed?
Would you say that civil servants are ‘free loaders ‘ No they do a job,you seem to be getting a bit confused so i will explain it one more time.The cptpp is a trade deal that does not require paying into,does not need a parliament,meps and all the costs that go with that.
Got it now?
I know that, but they don’t let anyone join, I will ask you again, what do we offer these countries that are thousands of miles away? Why would they let us join there club? Why would we want to join there club? Why can’t we just negotiate ‘individual bespoke ‘ trade deals with each nation? Right so you can now see the benefit of being in that rather than the eu at last we are getting somewhere.
No, your really struggling here , I will try one last time, why do we want to join a trading club that is thousands of miles away? And why would they let us join? Because it will see the end of tariffs on goods both ways.
Also CPTPP countries accounted for £110 billion worth of UK trade in 2019 and UK trade with CPTPP member countries has grown by 8% annually between 2016-19. Accession could also see 99.9% of UK exports being eligible for tariff-free trade with CPTPP countries.
Its a growing market where as our trade with the eu was a shrinking market year on year.
I hope this lesson has helped you understand a bit better.
That doesn't answer the questions posed.well sorry if its hard to understand for you but i cant put it any clearer.
Just an observation……..
Don’t you find anything remotely ironic about running into the arms of the CPTPP when the UK ran away from the biggest free trade deal on the planet…….
And so many people out there were trying to push the many… many… many advantages of dealing under WTO terms….
I mean…. Wasn’t that what so many people aspired to?
Like I said…. An observation No because it wasnt free.
If you think joining the CPTPP will be ‘free’ then you are deluded go on enlighten me what are the costs?
Well in the Australia deal what they also wanted was to make it easier for their citizens to come and work here….. you could call it “freedom of movement” for their citizens
In the deal that India want they want to make it easier for their citizens to come work here…… you could call it “freedom of movement” for their citizens
See a pattern emerging…..
"What? Immigrants coming over here , stifling wages and stealing British jobs? Surely not | |||
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"We're now moving away from tariffs. Will you explain why tariffs are a good thing? Who said they were ? But this deal immediately removes 97% of tariffs...and you oppose it Why? So your ok with cheaper imports under cutting British products? Why? Very much so. Tariffs are set to protect producers at the expense of consumers. In the case of food, the working person must pay above the free-market world price in order to keep the income high for landowners. They are a transfer of wealy from the poor to the rich. It's why free trade has always been a great progressive cause. Do you know history? Do you feel that you understand the issues here? Why are you supporting the wealthy? Again! So you don’t care about the British farming industry that supports thousands of British workers ? Your happy to flood the market with cheaper foreign produce ? Why? " I wish UK farmers well but they shouldn't have artificial protection at the expense of poorer people. You think otherwise? What do you know about the Corn Laws, the potato famine, high prices, tariffs and free trade? What do EU External Tariffs have in common with Corn Law tariffs? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"We're now moving away from tariffs. Will you explain why tariffs are a good thing? Who said they were ? But this deal immediately removes 97% of tariffs...and you oppose it Why? So your ok with cheaper imports under cutting British products? Why? Very much so. Tariffs are set to protect producers at the expense of consumers. In the case of food, the working person must pay above the free-market world price in order to keep the income high for landowners. They are a transfer of wealy from the poor to the rich. It's why free trade has always been a great progressive cause. Do you know history? Do you feel that you understand the issues here? Why are you supporting the wealthy? Again! So you don’t care about the British farming industry that supports thousands of British workers ? Your happy to flood the market with cheaper foreign produce ? Why? I wish UK farmers well but they shouldn't have artificial protection at the expense of poorer people. You think otherwise? What do you know about the Corn Laws, the potato famine, high prices, tariffs and free trade? What do EU External Tariffs have in common with Corn Law tariffs?" So you wound prefer uk consumers money to go abroad to pay for cheaper produce causing British farmers to cut back or go out of business? Why? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"We're now moving away from tariffs. Will you explain why tariffs are a good thing? Who said they were ? But this deal immediately removes 97% of tariffs...and you oppose it Why? So your ok with cheaper imports under cutting British products? Why? Very much so. Tariffs are set to protect producers at the expense of consumers. In the case of food, the working person must pay above the free-market world price in order to keep the income high for landowners. They are a transfer of wealy from the poor to the rich. It's why free trade has always been a great progressive cause. Do you know history? Do you feel that you understand the issues here? Why are you supporting the wealthy? Again! So you don’t care about the British farming industry that supports thousands of British workers ? Your happy to flood the market with cheaper foreign produce ? Why? I wish UK farmers well but they shouldn't have artificial protection at the expense of poorer people. You think otherwise? What do you know about the Corn Laws, the potato famine, high prices, tariffs and free trade? What do EU External Tariffs have in common with Corn Law tariffs? So you wound prefer uk consumers money to go abroad to pay for cheaper produce causing British farmers to cut back or go out of business? Why? " Yes...unless UK agriculture can compete. I think I need to help you a bit here on the Corn Laws. The Corn Laws imposed tariffs on food from abroad...so as to protect British landowners by keeping prices high. They meant that the rising middle and working class were kept hungry in the interests of protecting landowners. In the case of the Irish they starved. In a great conflict they were repealed. Rightly so. What do you know about the EU's Common External Tariff? It is the same! It forces up prices to protect landowners.. with cheaper good from abroad having to climb the tariff wall. It is the consumer that pays for all this at the till Butter, for example, has a near 100% tariff. Coffee over 100%. To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? | |||
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"We're now moving away from tariffs. Will you explain why tariffs are a good thing? Who said they were ? But this deal immediately removes 97% of tariffs...and you oppose it Why? So your ok with cheaper imports under cutting British products? Why? Very much so. Tariffs are set to protect producers at the expense of consumers. In the case of food, the working person must pay above the free-market world price in order to keep the income high for landowners. They are a transfer of wealy from the poor to the rich. It's why free trade has always been a great progressive cause. Do you know history? Do you feel that you understand the issues here? Why are you supporting the wealthy? Again! So you don’t care about the British farming industry that supports thousands of British workers ? Your happy to flood the market with cheaper foreign produce ? Why? I wish UK farmers well but they shouldn't have artificial protection at the expense of poorer people. You think otherwise? What do you know about the Corn Laws, the potato famine, high prices, tariffs and free trade? What do EU External Tariffs have in common with Corn Law tariffs?" Your missing the points of food security along with employment and investment in the U.K. If farmers are undercut they will move as many have done already to industrial crops leaving the way open for more and more food imports. It will pay better. When you buy all your food from abroad the price is out of your control and long term result is you get very much more expensive food, which also is at the mercy of even more logistics. We know how that’s going just lately. Food from the other side of the world is far more insecure. Never mind the environmental impact and the hormone injected animals. In addition industrial crops need less employment. So we lose all hands down. Just saying cheap food today please isn’t a long term plan. The army isn’t cost effective from an economic view so should we sack them all and hire in mercenaries as and when? That makes it so much cheaper. But is is sensible? | |||
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"We're now moving away from tariffs. Will you explain why tariffs are a good thing? Who said they were ? But this deal immediately removes 97% of tariffs...and you oppose it Why? So your ok with cheaper imports under cutting British products? Why? Very much so. Tariffs are set to protect producers at the expense of consumers. In the case of food, the working person must pay above the free-market world price in order to keep the income high for landowners. They are a transfer of wealy from the poor to the rich. It's why free trade has always been a great progressive cause. Do you know history? Do you feel that you understand the issues here? Why are you supporting the wealthy? Again! So you don’t care about the British farming industry that supports thousands of British workers ? Your happy to flood the market with cheaper foreign produce ? Why? I wish UK farmers well but they shouldn't have artificial protection at the expense of poorer people. You think otherwise? What do you know about the Corn Laws, the potato famine, high prices, tariffs and free trade? What do EU External Tariffs have in common with Corn Law tariffs? So you wound prefer uk consumers money to go abroad to pay for cheaper produce causing British farmers to cut back or go out of business? Why? Yes...unless UK agriculture can compete. I think I need to help you a bit here on the Corn Laws. The Corn Laws imposed tariffs on food from abroad...so as to protect British landowners by keeping prices high. They meant that the rising middle and working class were kept hungry in the interests of protecting landowners. In the case of the Irish they starved. In a great conflict they were repealed. Rightly so. What do you know about the EU's Common External Tariff? It is the same! It forces up prices to protect landowners.. with cheaper good from abroad having to climb the tariff wall. It is the consumer that pays for all this at the till Butter, for example, has a near 100% tariff. Coffee over 100%. To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people?" So you want British farmers to go out of business, causing job loses, causing a decrease in tax income, why? | |||
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"We're now moving away from tariffs. Will you explain why tariffs are a good thing? Who said they were ? But this deal immediately removes 97% of tariffs...and you oppose it Why? So your ok with cheaper imports under cutting British products? Why? Very much so. Tariffs are set to protect producers at the expense of consumers. In the case of food, the working person must pay above the free-market world price in order to keep the income high for landowners. They are a transfer of wealy from the poor to the rich. It's why free trade has always been a great progressive cause. Do you know history? Do you feel that you understand the issues here? Why are you supporting the wealthy? Again! So you don’t care about the British farming industry that supports thousands of British workers ? Your happy to flood the market with cheaper foreign produce ? Why? I wish UK farmers well but they shouldn't have artificial protection at the expense of poorer people. You think otherwise? What do you know about the Corn Laws, the potato famine, high prices, tariffs and free trade? What do EU External Tariffs have in common with Corn Law tariffs? So you wound prefer uk consumers money to go abroad to pay for cheaper produce causing British farmers to cut back or go out of business? Why? Yes...unless UK agriculture can compete. I think I need to help you a bit here on the Corn Laws. The Corn Laws imposed tariffs on food from abroad...so as to protect British landowners by keeping prices high. They meant that the rising middle and working class were kept hungry in the interests of protecting landowners. In the case of the Irish they starved. In a great conflict they were repealed. Rightly so. What do you know about the EU's Common External Tariff? It is the same! It forces up prices to protect landowners.. with cheaper good from abroad having to climb the tariff wall. It is the consumer that pays for all this at the till Butter, for example, has a near 100% tariff. Coffee over 100%. To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people?" did you really mean to say all foodstuffs from outside the EU has tarrirfs ? | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. " Good point, I feel for all the British business that are now expected to increase wages whilst decreasing consumer cost. | |||
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"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. " And sheep farmers are definitely not the wealthiest bunch of farmers in any way. Losing over 60% of their price will crucify them. Rich farmers tend to be in the much larger landowners not your average or small farmers whom subsidies were intended to help. The system needed reform and whilst this was happening it was slow. | |||
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"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. " That’s one of the main reasons I don’t buy lamb the cost.
In my local discount store 2 lamb chops a fiver  | |||
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"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. And sheep farmers are definitely not the wealthiest bunch of farmers in any way. Losing over 60% of their price will crucify them. Rich farmers tend to be in the much larger landowners not your average or small farmers whom subsidies were intended to help. The system needed reform and whilst this was happening it was slow. " New Zealand withdrew farm subsidies many years ago. But still NZ farming survives. They can send lamb in refrigerated ships to the other side of the world, yet still undercut my subsidised local lamb butcher by 50% or more. | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. " Very simple really. We, the citizens, want a good standard of living. We want to be treated fairly. If employers are importing millions of cheap workers it forces our wages down. It damages us. If our own vested interests, such as landowners, succeed in lobbying for tariffs which reduce our purchasing power then we oppose them. They are damaging our interests. What was difficult about that? | |||
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"We're now moving away from tariffs. Will you explain why tariffs are a good thing? Who said they were ? But this deal immediately removes 97% of tariffs...and you oppose it Why? So your ok with cheaper imports under cutting British products? Why? Very much so. Tariffs are set to protect producers at the expense of consumers. In the case of food, the working person must pay above the free-market world price in order to keep the income high for landowners. They are a transfer of wealy from the poor to the rich. It's why free trade has always been a great progressive cause. Do you know history? Do you feel that you understand the issues here? Why are you supporting the wealthy? Again! So you don’t care about the British farming industry that supports thousands of British workers ? Your happy to flood the market with cheaper foreign produce ? Why? I wish UK farmers well but they shouldn't have artificial protection at the expense of poorer people. You think otherwise? What do you know about the Corn Laws, the potato famine, high prices, tariffs and free trade? What do EU External Tariffs have in common with Corn Law tariffs? Your missing the points of food security along with employment and investment in the U.K. If farmers are undercut they will move as many have done already to industrial crops leaving the way open for more and more food imports. It will pay better. When you buy all your food from abroad the price is out of your control and long term result is you get very much more expensive food, which also is at the mercy of even more logistics. We know how that’s going just lately. Food from the other side of the world is far more insecure. Never mind the environmental impact and the hormone injected animals. In addition industrial crops need less employment. So we lose all hands down. Just saying cheap food today please isn’t a long term plan. The army isn’t cost effective from an economic view so should we sack them all and hire in mercenaries as and when? That makes it so much cheaper. But is is sensible? " You don't HAVE to buy food from across the world. But this trade deal scraps tariffs to make purchases affordable if you want them. Simple to understand | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Very simple really. We, the citizens, want a good standard of living. We want to be treated fairly. If employers are importing millions of cheap workers it forces our wages down. It damages us. If our own vested interests, such as landowners, succeed in lobbying for tariffs which reduce our purchasing power then we oppose them. They are damaging our interests. What was difficult about that?" You missed out the bit where to achieve a good standard of living we need a lot of EU workers. And the evidence is that immigration has little, if any impact on wages. | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Good point, I feel for all the British business that are now expected to increase wages whilst decreasing consumer cost. " It's a good job you weren't around at the time of the Anti Corn Law League. You'd have been on the other side | |||
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"We're now moving away from tariffs. Will you explain why tariffs are a good thing? Who said they were ? But this deal immediately removes 97% of tariffs...and you oppose it Why? So your ok with cheaper imports under cutting British products? Why? Very much so. Tariffs are set to protect producers at the expense of consumers. In the case of food, the working person must pay above the free-market world price in order to keep the income high for landowners. They are a transfer of wealy from the poor to the rich. It's why free trade has always been a great progressive cause. Do you know history? Do you feel that you understand the issues here? Why are you supporting the wealthy? Again! So you don’t care about the British farming industry that supports thousands of British workers ? Your happy to flood the market with cheaper foreign produce ? Why? I wish UK farmers well but they shouldn't have artificial protection at the expense of poorer people. You think otherwise? What do you know about the Corn Laws, the potato famine, high prices, tariffs and free trade? What do EU External Tariffs have in common with Corn Law tariffs? So you wound prefer uk consumers money to go abroad to pay for cheaper produce causing British farmers to cut back or go out of business? Why? Yes...unless UK agriculture can compete. I think I need to help you a bit here on the Corn Laws. The Corn Laws imposed tariffs on food from abroad...so as to protect British landowners by keeping prices high. They meant that the rising middle and working class were kept hungry in the interests of protecting landowners. In the case of the Irish they starved. In a great conflict they were repealed. Rightly so. What do you know about the EU's Common External Tariff? It is the same! It forces up prices to protect landowners.. with cheaper good from abroad having to climb the tariff wall. It is the consumer that pays for all this at the till Butter, for example, has a near 100% tariff. Coffee over 100%. To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people?did you really mean to say all foodstuffs from outside the EU has tarrirfs ?" None of the food has tariffs. It's the EU that imposed tariffs to force prices up. We are now free to strike free trade deals. Great for consumers | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Very simple really. We, the citizens, want a good standard of living. We want to be treated fairly. If employers are importing millions of cheap workers it forces our wages down. It damages us. If our own vested interests, such as landowners, succeed in lobbying for tariffs which reduce our purchasing power then we oppose them. They are damaging our interests. What was difficult about that? You missed out the bit where to achieve a good standard of living we need a lot of EU workers. And the evidence is that immigration has little, if any impact on wages." How do you work that out? How does increasing supply of cheap labour assist UK workers? And if we needed a good supply of EU workers so that we could have a good standard of living then how does the rest of the world manage? How many EU workers does Japan have? Australia? USA? Etc etc etc etc | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Very simple really. We, the citizens, want a good standard of living. We want to be treated fairly. If employers are importing millions of cheap workers it forces our wages down. It damages us. If our own vested interests, such as landowners, succeed in lobbying for tariffs which reduce our purchasing power then we oppose them. They are damaging our interests. What was difficult about that? You missed out the bit where to achieve a good standard of living we need a lot of EU workers. And the evidence is that immigration has little, if any impact on wages. How do you work that out? How does increasing supply of cheap labour assist UK workers? And if we needed a good supply of EU workers so that we could have a good standard of living then how does the rest of the world manage? How many EU workers does Japan have? Australia? USA? Etc etc etc etc" I didn't work it out, several academics working with the migration observatory did, the work was peer reviewed then published. Alternatively I could have talked to Dave in the local Spoon's. Japan due to its aging population uses migrant labour. The US is heavily dependent on labour from Mexico and Latin America. Australia has many migrant workers and needs migrants to support their wine industry. But you knew all this. | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Very simple really. We, the citizens, want a good standard of living. We want to be treated fairly. If employers are importing millions of cheap workers it forces our wages down. It damages us. If our own vested interests, such as landowners, succeed in lobbying for tariffs which reduce our purchasing power then we oppose them. They are damaging our interests. What was difficult about that?" the hidden assumption here is that the removal of tarriffs affects landowners only. It could cause job losses. That leads to the wider philosophical point of whether we act selfishly or for the wider good. And how wide. As you say above "we, the citizens". So does that mean we have to act to benefit all. Or most. Or the average? Imo it is here where many disagree and so therefore disagree on the ways of achieving this. | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Very simple really. We, the citizens, want a good standard of living. We want to be treated fairly. If employers are importing millions of cheap workers it forces our wages down. It damages us. If our own vested interests, such as landowners, succeed in lobbying for tariffs which reduce our purchasing power then we oppose them. They are damaging our interests. What was difficult about that? You missed out the bit where to achieve a good standard of living we need a lot of EU workers. And the evidence is that immigration has little, if any impact on wages. How do you work that out? How does increasing supply of cheap labour assist UK workers? And if we needed a good supply of EU workers so that we could have a good standard of living then how does the rest of the world manage? How many EU workers does Japan have? Australia? USA? Etc etc etc etc I didn't work it out, several academics working with the migration observatory did, the work was peer reviewed then published. Alternatively I could have talked to Dave in the local Spoon's. Japan due to its aging population uses migrant labour. The US is heavily dependent on labour from Mexico and Latin America. Australia has many migrant workers and needs migrants to support their wine industry. But you knew all this." The sad thing is, I don’t think he did | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Good point, I feel for all the British business that are now expected to increase wages whilst decreasing consumer cost. It's a good job you weren't around at the time of the Anti Corn Law League. You'd have been on the other side "175 years ago ? | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Very simple really. We, the citizens, want a good standard of living. We want to be treated fairly. If employers are importing millions of cheap workers it forces our wages down. It damages us. If our own vested interests, such as landowners, succeed in lobbying for tariffs which reduce our purchasing power then we oppose them. They are damaging our interests. What was difficult about that? You missed out the bit where to achieve a good standard of living we need a lot of EU workers. And the evidence is that immigration has little, if any impact on wages. How do you work that out? How does increasing supply of cheap labour assist UK workers? And if we needed a good supply of EU workers so that we could have a good standard of living then how does the rest of the world manage? How many EU workers does Japan have? Australia? USA? Etc etc etc etc I didn't work it out, several academics working with the migration observatory did, the work was peer reviewed then published. Alternatively I could have talked to Dave in the local Spoon's. Japan due to its aging population uses migrant labour. The US is heavily dependent on labour from Mexico and Latin America. Australia has many migrant workers and needs migrants to support their wine industry. But you knew all this." But Australia does have very strict and time sensitive controls in place for migrant workers | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Very simple really. We, the citizens, want a good standard of living. We want to be treated fairly. If employers are importing millions of cheap workers it forces our wages down. It damages us. If our own vested interests, such as landowners, succeed in lobbying for tariffs which reduce our purchasing power then we oppose them. They are damaging our interests. What was difficult about that? You missed out the bit where to achieve a good standard of living we need a lot of EU workers. And the evidence is that immigration has little, if any impact on wages. How do you work that out? How does increasing supply of cheap labour assist UK workers? And if we needed a good supply of EU workers so that we could have a good standard of living then how does the rest of the world manage? How many EU workers does Japan have? Australia? USA? Etc etc etc etc I didn't work it out, several academics working with the migration observatory did, the work was peer reviewed then published. Alternatively I could have talked to Dave in the local Spoon's. Japan due to its aging population uses migrant labour. The US is heavily dependent on labour from Mexico and Latin America. Australia has many migrant workers and needs migrants to support their wine industry. But you knew all this. But Australia does have very strict and time sensitive controls in place for migrant workers "You didn't ask about immigration control. All major economies need immigration. We chose to make immigrants feel uncomfortable in order to appeal to a far right minority. Now we have to deal with the consequences. | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Very simple really. We, the citizens, want a good standard of living. We want to be treated fairly. If employers are importing millions of cheap workers it forces our wages down. It damages us. If our own vested interests, such as landowners, succeed in lobbying for tariffs which reduce our purchasing power then we oppose them. They are damaging our interests. What was difficult about that? You missed out the bit where to achieve a good standard of living we need a lot of EU workers. And the evidence is that immigration has little, if any impact on wages. How do you work that out? How does increasing supply of cheap labour assist UK workers? And if we needed a good supply of EU workers so that we could have a good standard of living then how does the rest of the world manage? How many EU workers does Japan have? Australia? USA? Etc etc etc etc I didn't work it out, several academics working with the migration observatory did, the work was peer reviewed then published. Alternatively I could have talked to Dave in the local Spoon's. Japan due to its aging population uses migrant labour. The US is heavily dependent on labour from Mexico and Latin America. Australia has many migrant workers and needs migrants to support their wine industry. But you knew all this." Yes they get the people that they NEED in via a visa or green card system exactly what the uk is doing why for instance did someone from France have more rights to a job than someone from Australia? Im glad that discrimination has gone. | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Very simple really. We, the citizens, want a good standard of living. We want to be treated fairly. If employers are importing millions of cheap workers it forces our wages down. It damages us. If our own vested interests, such as landowners, succeed in lobbying for tariffs which reduce our purchasing power then we oppose them. They are damaging our interests. What was difficult about that? You missed out the bit where to achieve a good standard of living we need a lot of EU workers. And the evidence is that immigration has little, if any impact on wages. How do you work that out? How does increasing supply of cheap labour assist UK workers? And if we needed a good supply of EU workers so that we could have a good standard of living then how does the rest of the world manage? How many EU workers does Japan have? Australia? USA? Etc etc etc etc I didn't work it out, several academics working with the migration observatory did, the work was peer reviewed then published. Alternatively I could have talked to Dave in the local Spoon's. Japan due to its aging population uses migrant labour. The US is heavily dependent on labour from Mexico and Latin America. Australia has many migrant workers and needs migrants to support their wine industry. But you knew all this. Yes they get the people that they NEED in via a visa or green card system exactly what the uk is doing why for instance did someone from France have more rights to a job than someone from Australia? Im glad that discrimination has gone. " Ah that old line Yes someone from France had absolutely the right to live work and love here, just as we had a right to live work and love there. You do of course realize that despite the rants of the likes of Fartage, we could say who could or could not come here, the governments chose not to use them. | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Very simple really. We, the citizens, want a good standard of living. We want to be treated fairly. If employers are importing millions of cheap workers it forces our wages down. It damages us. If our own vested interests, such as landowners, succeed in lobbying for tariffs which reduce our purchasing power then we oppose them. They are damaging our interests. What was difficult about that? You missed out the bit where to achieve a good standard of living we need a lot of EU workers. And the evidence is that immigration has little, if any impact on wages. How do you work that out? How does increasing supply of cheap labour assist UK workers? And if we needed a good supply of EU workers so that we could have a good standard of living then how does the rest of the world manage? How many EU workers does Japan have? Australia? USA? Etc etc etc etc I didn't work it out, several academics working with the migration observatory did, the work was peer reviewed then published. Alternatively I could have talked to Dave in the local Spoon's. Japan due to its aging population uses migrant labour. The US is heavily dependent on labour from Mexico and Latin America. Australia has many migrant workers and needs migrants to support their wine industry. But you knew all this. Yes they get the people that they NEED in via a visa or green card system exactly what the uk is doing why for instance did someone from France have more rights to a job than someone from Australia? Im glad that discrimination has gone. " Why would an Australian want to travel half way around the world to pick fruit or drive a HGV ? | |||
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" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people?" Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!! | |||
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" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!! "I believe the technical term is "schooled" | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Very simple really. We, the citizens, want a good standard of living. We want to be treated fairly. If employers are importing millions of cheap workers it forces our wages down. It damages us. If our own vested interests, such as landowners, succeed in lobbying for tariffs which reduce our purchasing power then we oppose them. They are damaging our interests. What was difficult about that? You missed out the bit where to achieve a good standard of living we need a lot of EU workers. And the evidence is that immigration has little, if any impact on wages. How do you work that out? How does increasing supply of cheap labour assist UK workers? And if we needed a good supply of EU workers so that we could have a good standard of living then how does the rest of the world manage? How many EU workers does Japan have? Australia? USA? Etc etc etc etc I didn't work it out, several academics working with the migration observatory did, the work was peer reviewed then published. Alternatively I could have talked to Dave in the local Spoon's. Japan due to its aging population uses migrant labour. The US is heavily dependent on labour from Mexico and Latin America. Australia has many migrant workers and needs migrants to support their wine industry. But you knew all this." But you still haven't explained HOW an influx of cheap EU labour makes the country better off. You have simply asserted it Clue: it doesn't. Also, you haven't explained why, if an influx of EU labour makes a country better off, other countries aren't in the EU. Clue: cheap labour makes bad employers better off and helps them in forcing down wages. Neither have you addressed the issue of EU tariffs forcing up food prices to benefit landowners. The NZ deal move away from all those damaging effects | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Very simple really. We, the citizens, want a good standard of living. We want to be treated fairly. If employers are importing millions of cheap workers it forces our wages down. It damages us. If our own vested interests, such as landowners, succeed in lobbying for tariffs which reduce our purchasing power then we oppose them. They are damaging our interests. What was difficult about that? You missed out the bit where to achieve a good standard of living we need a lot of EU workers. And the evidence is that immigration has little, if any impact on wages. How do you work that out? How does increasing supply of cheap labour assist UK workers? And if we needed a good supply of EU workers so that we could have a good standard of living then how does the rest of the world manage? How many EU workers does Japan have? Australia? USA? Etc etc etc etc I didn't work it out, several academics working with the migration observatory did, the work was peer reviewed then published. Alternatively I could have talked to Dave in the local Spoon's. Japan due to its aging population uses migrant labour. The US is heavily dependent on labour from Mexico and Latin America. Australia has many migrant workers and needs migrants to support their wine industry. But you knew all this. Yes they get the people that they NEED in via a visa or green card system exactly what the uk is doing why for instance did someone from France have more rights to a job than someone from Australia? Im glad that discrimination has gone. Why would an Australian want to travel half way around the world to pick fruit or drive a HGV ?" you seem obsessed with fruit pickers and drivers. | |||
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"At least we have our freedom. "and Blue passports | |||
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"It's interesting to see the desire of low prices and removal of barriers when it comes to goods ... And compare that to FoM and wages. Very simple really. We, the citizens, want a good standard of living. We want to be treated fairly. If employers are importing millions of cheap workers it forces our wages down. It damages us. If our own vested interests, such as landowners, succeed in lobbying for tariffs which reduce our purchasing power then we oppose them. They are damaging our interests. What was difficult about that?the hidden assumption here is that the removal of tarriffs affects landowners only. It could cause job losses. That leads to the wider philosophical point of whether we act selfishly or for the wider good. And how wide. As you say above "we, the citizens". So does that mean we have to act to benefit all. Or most. Or the average? Imo it is here where many disagree and so therefore disagree on the ways of achieving this. " Put it this way: the Corn Laws were the imposition of tariffs on food to protect the income of landowners at the expense of the rising working-class and middle class. Many went hungry because of these tariffs. They were repealed eventually. The EU Common External Tariff replicated them...some food tariffs in the EU are over 100% The NZ trade deal gets rid of those tariffs. No wonder landowners are complaining, but for every landowner there are hundreds of working people who will benefit from an increase in purchasing power. It's very revealing that Remainers oppose this | |||
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" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled""Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU. Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ. Free trade is always best | |||
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"cheaper wine whats not to like. "Hic! I agree the Remainers have become a cult though...with no understanding of economics, history etc. And they claim they're the clever ones | |||
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"At least we have our freedom. and Blue passports "And the right to sack the people who make your laws. You couldn't do that in the EU | |||
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"At least we have our freedom. and Blue passports
And the right to sack the people who make your laws. You couldn't do that in the EU" it's a pleasure following this thread | |||
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"At least we have our freedom. and Blue passports
And the right to sack the people who make your laws. You couldn't do that in the EU"I know you guys are mocking here. But some news outlets still peddle this nonsense. I can only assume that some people are still believing it. | |||
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"At least we have our freedom. and Blue passports
And the right to sack the people who make your laws. You couldn't do that in the EU"Factually wrong Try again | |||
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"cheaper wine whats not to like.
Hic!
I agree the Remainers have become a cult though...with no understanding of economics, history etc.
And they claim they're the clever ones "And ironic post of the thread award goes to ... | |||
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"cheaper wine whats not to like.
Hic!
I agree the Remainers have become a cult though...with no understanding of economics, history etc.
And they claim they're the clever ones "It amazes me, why do they think that the likes of Corbyn opposed the eu all his career? for that exact reason cheap labour for the wealthy and low wages for workers. As i said its become a cult and the left are turning on themselves you really couldn't make it up. | |||
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"At least we have our freedom. and Blue passports
And the right to sack the people who make your laws. You couldn't do that in the EU
I know you guys are mocking here. But some news outlets still peddle this nonsense. I can only assume that some people are still believing it. "In what sense is telling the truth 'mocking'? The House of Commons library confirmed that 67% of UK laws were derived from EU Directives. Tell me, how would you change one of those laws? | |||
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"cheaper wine whats not to like.
Hic!
I agree the Remainers have become a cult though...with no understanding of economics, history etc.
And they claim they're the clever ones
And ironic post of the thread award goes to ..."The NZ deal abolishes tariffs on NZ-uk trade. Can you explain what effect tariffs have on food prices? | |||
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"At least we have our freedom. and Blue passports
And the right to sack the people who make your laws. You couldn't do that in the EU
I know you guys are mocking here. But some news outlets still peddle this nonsense. I can only assume that some people are still believing it.
In what sense is telling the truth 'mocking'?
The House of Commons library confirmed that 67% of UK laws were derived from EU Directives.
Tell me, how would you change one of those laws?"Im looking forward to seeing the answer to that one. | |||
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"At least we have our freedom. and Blue passports
And the right to sack the people who make your laws. You couldn't do that in the EU
Factually wrong
Try again"In what sense 'factually wrong'? Tell me the relationship between an EU Directive and subsequent domestic law | |||
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"cheaper wine whats not to like.
Hic!
I agree the Remainers have become a cult though...with no understanding of economics, history etc.
And they claim they're the clever ones It amazes me, why do they think that the likes of Corbyn opposed the eu all his career? for that exact reason cheap labour for the wealthy and low wages for workers. As i said its become a cult and the left are turning on themselves you really couldn't make it up. "I remember when Benn, Shore, Heffer, Castle, Callaghan were against the EU because it was a tool of bad employers and landowners. Now the so-called 'left' are ... In favour of bad employers and landowners! You couldn't make it up | |||
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" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best"What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ? | |||
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" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?"Unicorns | |||
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" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns "It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff. Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look. | |||
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" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look."What's a worse look is refusing to take responsibility for the cavalier action that is brexit. But don't worry, the actions of Brexitters won't be forgotten. | |||
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" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look."You are Donald Trump and I claim €5.00. | |||
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"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. And sheep farmers are definitely not the wealthiest bunch of farmers in any way. Losing over 60% of their price will crucify them. Rich farmers tend to be in the much larger landowners not your average or small farmers whom subsidies were intended to help. The system needed reform and whilst this was happening it was slow. New Zealand withdrew farm subsidies many years ago. But still NZ farming survives. They can send lamb in refrigerated ships to the other side of the world, yet still undercut my subsidised local lamb butcher by 50% or more. "Yes it’s called being owned by very large corporations along with industrial type production. Growth hormones, excess use of antibiotics and lower animal welfare. So yes let’s get our farmers to adopt that style of farming.. actually no I’d rather not. | |||
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"We're now moving away from tariffs. Will you explain why tariffs are a good thing? Who said they were ? But this deal immediately removes 97% of tariffs...and you oppose it Why? So your ok with cheaper imports under cutting British products? Why? Very much so. Tariffs are set to protect producers at the expense of consumers. In the case of food, the working person must pay above the free-market world price in order to keep the income high for landowners. They are a transfer of wealy from the poor to the rich. It's why free trade has always been a great progressive cause. Do you know history? Do you feel that you understand the issues here? Why are you supporting the wealthy? Again! So you don’t care about the British farming industry that supports thousands of British workers ? Your happy to flood the market with cheaper foreign produce ? Why? I wish UK farmers well but they shouldn't have artificial protection at the expense of poorer people. You think otherwise? What do you know about the Corn Laws, the potato famine, high prices, tariffs and free trade? What do EU External Tariffs have in common with Corn Law tariffs? Your missing the points of food security along with employment and investment in the U.K. If farmers are undercut they will move as many have done already to industrial crops leaving the way open for more and more food imports. It will pay better. When you buy all your food from abroad the price is out of your control and long term result is you get very much more expensive food, which also is at the mercy of even more logistics. We know how that’s going just lately. Food from the other side of the world is far more insecure. Never mind the environmental impact and the hormone injected animals. In addition industrial crops need less employment. So we lose all hands down. Just saying cheap food today please isn’t a long term plan. The army isn’t cost effective from an economic view so should we sack them all and hire in mercenaries as and when? That makes it so much cheaper. But is is sensible? You don't HAVE to buy food from across the world. But this trade deal scraps tariffs to make purchases affordable if you want them. Simple to understand" If it’s in processed food you have no choice as you don’t see it.. Very simple to understand! | |||
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"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. And sheep farmers are definitely not the wealthiest bunch of farmers in any way. Losing over 60% of their price will crucify them. Rich farmers tend to be in the much larger landowners not your average or small farmers whom subsidies were intended to help. The system needed reform and whilst this was happening it was slow. New Zealand withdrew farm subsidies many years ago. But still NZ farming survives. They can send lamb in refrigerated ships to the other side of the world, yet still undercut my subsidised local lamb butcher by 50% or more.
Yes it’s called being owned by very large corporations along with industrial type production. Growth hormones, excess use of antibiotics and lower animal welfare. So yes let’s get our farmers to adopt that style of farming.. actually no I’d rather not. "New Zealand ranks in top place for world animal welfare standards and does not use growth hormones at all. The use of antibiotics has been stopped or is in the procedure of being stopped. Isn't the largest agricultural company in New Zealand actually a cooperative owned by over 10000 farmers? | |||
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"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. And sheep farmers are definitely not the wealthiest bunch of farmers in any way. Losing over 60% of their price will crucify them. Rich farmers tend to be in the much larger landowners not your average or small farmers whom subsidies were intended to help. The system needed reform and whilst this was happening it was slow. New Zealand withdrew farm subsidies many years ago. But still NZ farming survives. They can send lamb in refrigerated ships to the other side of the world, yet still undercut my subsidised local lamb butcher by 50% or more.
Yes it’s called being owned by very large corporations along with industrial type production. Growth hormones, excess use of antibiotics and lower animal welfare. So yes let’s get our farmers to adopt that style of farming.. actually no I’d rather not.
New Zealand ranks in top place for world animal welfare standards and does not use growth hormones at all. The use of antibiotics has been stopped or is in the procedure of being stopped.
Isn't the largest agricultural company in New Zealand actually a cooperative owned by over 10000 farmers?
"Yes you have just repeated what I believed to be true as well. However the reality according to researchers isn’t that good. https://www.farmbusiness.co.uk/news/evidence-of-serious-misuse-of-antibiotics-in-farmed-animals-in-us-australia-new-zealand-and-canada-exposes-public-health-threat-of-trade-deals-campaigners-warn.html This report below says that lamb antibiotics use is lower in lamb than other much higher use animals but growing and far less regulation than the previous EU controls. I thought we wanted to be able improve on the regulations according to Boris and Liz. The only way this ends is the U.K. producers join the race to the bottom on quality and safety. https://saveourantibiotics.org/media/1864/farm-antibiotics-and-trade-could-uk-standards-be-undermined-asoa-nov-2020.pdf | |||
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"At least we have our freedom. and Blue passports
And the right to sack the people who make your laws. You couldn't do that in the EU
I know you guys are mocking here. But some news outlets still peddle this nonsense. I can only assume that some people are still believing it.
In what sense is telling the truth 'mocking'?
The House of Commons library confirmed that 67% of UK laws were derived from EU Directives.
Tell me, how would you change one of those laws?"As i thought no answer on that one. | |||
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" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
What's a worse look is refusing to take responsibility for the cavalier action that is brexit.
But don't worry, the actions of Brexitters won't be forgotten."I don't think the anti-democratic actions of Remainers will ever be forgotten. Certainly never forgiven. Brexiteers have fought for democracy; Remainers have fought for an end to democracy. Incidentally, you still haven't explained what effect tariffs have on prices... | |||
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" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
You are Donald Trump and I claim €5.00."Juvenile! | |||
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"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. And sheep farmers are definitely not the wealthiest bunch of farmers in any way. Losing over 60% of their price will crucify them. Rich farmers tend to be in the much larger landowners not your average or small farmers whom subsidies were intended to help. The system needed reform and whilst this was happening it was slow. New Zealand withdrew farm subsidies many years ago. But still NZ farming survives. They can send lamb in refrigerated ships to the other side of the world, yet still undercut my subsidised local lamb butcher by 50% or more.
Yes it’s called being owned by very large corporations along with industrial type production. Growth hormones, excess use of antibiotics and lower animal welfare. So yes let’s get our farmers to adopt that style of farming.. actually no I’d rather not.
New Zealand ranks in top place for world animal welfare standards and does not use growth hormones at all. The use of antibiotics has been stopped or is in the procedure of being stopped.
Isn't the largest agricultural company in New Zealand actually a cooperative owned by over 10000 farmers?
Yes you have just repeated what I believed to be true as well. However the reality according to researchers isn’t that good.
https://www.farmbusiness.co.uk/news/evidence-of-serious-misuse-of-antibiotics-in-farmed-animals-in-us-australia-new-zealand-and-canada-exposes-public-health-threat-of-trade-deals-campaigners-warn.html
This report below says that lamb antibiotics use is lower in lamb than other much higher use animals but growing and far less regulation than the previous EU controls. I thought we wanted to be able improve on the regulations according to Boris and Liz. The only way this ends is the U.K. producers join the race to the bottom on quality and safety.
https://saveourantibiotics.org/media/1864/farm-antibiotics-and-trade-could-uk-standards-be-undermined-asoa-nov-2020.pdf"New Zealand ranks third in the world, after Iceland and Norway, in the list of OECD countries in the least antibiotic use in animals. In the rare cases that they are used, they can only be administered by a vet, cannot be used as a growth supplement and cannot be used if its dangerous to humans. Improved breeding and husbandry should see the end of any antibiotic use this decade. Can you honestly say the same about current EU farming practices? | |||
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They can paint their faces blue all they like until then...but they have so disgusted people that they will be defeated even more heavily | |||
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"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. And sheep farmers are definitely not the wealthiest bunch of farmers in any way. Losing over 60% of their price will crucify them. Rich farmers tend to be in the much larger landowners not your average or small farmers whom subsidies were intended to help. The system needed reform and whilst this was happening it was slow. New Zealand withdrew farm subsidies many years ago. But still NZ farming survives. They can send lamb in refrigerated ships to the other side of the world, yet still undercut my subsidised local lamb butcher by 50% or more.
Yes it’s called being owned by very large corporations along with industrial type production. Growth hormones, excess use of antibiotics and lower animal welfare. So yes let’s get our farmers to adopt that style of farming.. actually no I’d rather not.
New Zealand ranks in top place for world animal welfare standards and does not use growth hormones at all. The use of antibiotics has been stopped or is in the procedure of being stopped.
Isn't the largest agricultural company in New Zealand actually a cooperative owned by over 10000 farmers?
Yes you have just repeated what I believed to be true as well. However the reality according to researchers isn’t that good.
https://www.farmbusiness.co.uk/news/evidence-of-serious-misuse-of-antibiotics-in-farmed-animals-in-us-australia-new-zealand-and-canada-exposes-public-health-threat-of-trade-deals-campaigners-warn.html
This report below says that lamb antibiotics use is lower in lamb than other much higher use animals but growing and far less regulation than the previous EU controls. I thought we wanted to be able improve on the regulations according to Boris and Liz. The only way this ends is the U.K. producers join the race to the bottom on quality and safety.
https://saveourantibiotics.org/media/1864/farm-antibiotics-and-trade-could-uk-standards-be-undermined-asoa-nov-2020.pdf"You do realise that the EU has just allowed the feeding of pigs to pigs? That practice was banned in the UK after it led to such disease that millions of pigs had to be slaughtered. Very poor standards in the EU. Far better in UK and NZ | |||
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"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. And sheep farmers are definitely not the wealthiest bunch of farmers in any way. Losing over 60% of their price will crucify them. Rich farmers tend to be in the much larger landowners not your average or small farmers whom subsidies were intended to help. The system needed reform and whilst this was happening it was slow. New Zealand withdrew farm subsidies many years ago. But still NZ farming survives. They can send lamb in refrigerated ships to the other side of the world, yet still undercut my subsidised local lamb butcher by 50% or more.
Yes it’s called being owned by very large corporations along with industrial type production. Growth hormones, excess use of antibiotics and lower animal welfare. So yes let’s get our farmers to adopt that style of farming.. actually no I’d rather not.
New Zealand ranks in top place for world animal welfare standards and does not use growth hormones at all. The use of antibiotics has been stopped or is in the procedure of being stopped.
Isn't the largest agricultural company in New Zealand actually a cooperative owned by over 10000 farmers?
Yes you have just repeated what I believed to be true as well. However the reality according to researchers isn’t that good.
https://www.farmbusiness.co.uk/news/evidence-of-serious-misuse-of-antibiotics-in-farmed-animals-in-us-australia-new-zealand-and-canada-exposes-public-health-threat-of-trade-deals-campaigners-warn.html
This report below says that lamb antibiotics use is lower in lamb than other much higher use animals but growing and far less regulation than the previous EU controls. I thought we wanted to be able improve on the regulations according to Boris and Liz. The only way this ends is the U.K. producers join the race to the bottom on quality and safety.
https://saveourantibiotics.org/media/1864/farm-antibiotics-and-trade-could-uk-standards-be-undermined-asoa-nov-2020.pdf
New Zealand ranks third in the world, after Iceland and Norway, in the list of OECD countries in the least antibiotic use in animals.
In the rare cases that they are used, they can only be administered by a vet, cannot be used as a growth supplement and cannot be used if its dangerous to humans.
Improved breeding and husbandry should see the end of any antibiotic use this decade.
Can you honestly say the same about current EU farming practices?
"You won't get any answers from the Remainers because they don't even understand the issues. I don't think they even knew what they were voting on | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
What's a worse look is refusing to take responsibility for the cavalier action that is brexit.
But don't worry, the actions of Brexitters won't be forgotten.
I don't think the anti-democratic actions of Remainers will ever be forgotten. Certainly never forgiven. Brexiteers have fought for democracy; Remainers have fought for an end to democracy.
Incidentally, you still haven't explained what effect tariffs have on prices..."If you think this country is democratic then you need to do a lot more reading. If we had proportional representation I’d agree but our first past the post system is just nonsense. Two thirds of voters didn’t vote for the Tories and yet they hold absolute power. That’s not democratic . Where is the voice of those who didn’t vote them in? 60% of candidates are parachuted in by central offices of labour and Tory. That’s not democracy that’s being told who you can vote for. No party should be allowed large donations. Put a £5k limit in so no undue leverage or influence from individuals, business or unions. . Restrict newspapers from political opinion during an election period. Only report the news as factual. Local councils and MPs are directed by central office on what policies to adopt.regardless of local need. Oldham doesn’t have the same needs as Great Yarmouth so why would the policies be the same. My view is local councils should not be any part of a national party and only act on their local need. Starting to rant so that’s enough. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
What's a worse look is refusing to take responsibility for the cavalier action that is brexit.
But don't worry, the actions of Brexitters won't be forgotten.
I don't think the anti-democratic actions of Remainers will ever be forgotten. Certainly never forgiven. Brexiteers have fought for democracy; Remainers have fought for an end to democracy.
Incidentally, you still haven't explained what effect tariffs have on prices...
If you think this country is democratic then you need to do a lot more reading.
If we had proportional representation I’d agree but our first past the post system is just nonsense. Two thirds of voters didn’t vote for the Tories and yet they hold absolute power. That’s not democratic . Where is the voice of those who didn’t vote them in?
60% of candidates are parachuted in by central offices of labour and Tory. That’s not democracy that’s being told who you can vote for.
No party should be allowed large donations. Put a £5k limit in so no undue leverage or influence from individuals, business or unions. . Restrict newspapers from political opinion during an election period. Only report the news as factual.
Local councils and MPs are directed by central office on what policies to adopt.regardless of local need. Oldham doesn’t have the same needs as Great Yarmouth so why would the policies be the same.
My view is local councils should not be any part of a national party and only act on their local need. Starting to rant so that’s enough.
"Yes. We have the principle that WE make our rules. And we can sack our rulers. And thus we can change laws if they don't suit us. Monnet admitted that the EU had been designed to insulate the lawmakers from the public. You defend that?! How do people in the EU change laws they don't like? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. And sheep farmers are definitely not the wealthiest bunch of farmers in any way. Losing over 60% of their price will crucify them. Rich farmers tend to be in the much larger landowners not your average or small farmers whom subsidies were intended to help. The system needed reform and whilst this was happening it was slow. New Zealand withdrew farm subsidies many years ago. But still NZ farming survives. They can send lamb in refrigerated ships to the other side of the world, yet still undercut my subsidised local lamb butcher by 50% or more.
Yes it’s called being owned by very large corporations along with industrial type production. Growth hormones, excess use of antibiotics and lower animal welfare. So yes let’s get our farmers to adopt that style of farming.. actually no I’d rather not.
New Zealand ranks in top place for world animal welfare standards and does not use growth hormones at all. The use of antibiotics has been stopped or is in the procedure of being stopped.
Isn't the largest agricultural company in New Zealand actually a cooperative owned by over 10000 farmers?
Yes you have just repeated what I believed to be true as well. However the reality according to researchers isn’t that good.
https://www.farmbusiness.co.uk/news/evidence-of-serious-misuse-of-antibiotics-in-farmed-animals-in-us-australia-new-zealand-and-canada-exposes-public-health-threat-of-trade-deals-campaigners-warn.html
This report below says that lamb antibiotics use is lower in lamb than other much higher use animals but growing and far less regulation than the previous EU controls. I thought we wanted to be able improve on the regulations according to Boris and Liz. The only way this ends is the U.K. producers join the race to the bottom on quality and safety.
https://saveourantibiotics.org/media/1864/farm-antibiotics-and-trade-could-uk-standards-be-undermined-asoa-nov-2020.pdf
New Zealand ranks third in the world, after Iceland and Norway, in the list of OECD countries in the least antibiotic use in animals.
In the rare cases that they are used, they can only be administered by a vet, cannot be used as a growth supplement and cannot be used if its dangerous to humans.
Improved breeding and husbandry should see the end of any antibiotic use this decade.
Can you honestly say the same about current EU farming practices?
You won't get any answers from the Remainers because they don't even understand the issues.
I don't think they even knew what they were voting on "Oh the irony. Give ‘em enough rope though and all that. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. And sheep farmers are definitely not the wealthiest bunch of farmers in any way. Losing over 60% of their price will crucify them. Rich farmers tend to be in the much larger landowners not your average or small farmers whom subsidies were intended to help. The system needed reform and whilst this was happening it was slow. New Zealand withdrew farm subsidies many years ago. But still NZ farming survives. They can send lamb in refrigerated ships to the other side of the world, yet still undercut my subsidised local lamb butcher by 50% or more.
Yes it’s called being owned by very large corporations along with industrial type production. Growth hormones, excess use of antibiotics and lower animal welfare. So yes let’s get our farmers to adopt that style of farming.. actually no I’d rather not.
New Zealand ranks in top place for world animal welfare standards and does not use growth hormones at all. The use of antibiotics has been stopped or is in the procedure of being stopped.
Isn't the largest agricultural company in New Zealand actually a cooperative owned by over 10000 farmers?
Yes you have just repeated what I believed to be true as well. However the reality according to researchers isn’t that good.
https://www.farmbusiness.co.uk/news/evidence-of-serious-misuse-of-antibiotics-in-farmed-animals-in-us-australia-new-zealand-and-canada-exposes-public-health-threat-of-trade-deals-campaigners-warn.html
This report below says that lamb antibiotics use is lower in lamb than other much higher use animals but growing and far less regulation than the previous EU controls. I thought we wanted to be able improve on the regulations according to Boris and Liz. The only way this ends is the U.K. producers join the race to the bottom on quality and safety.
https://saveourantibiotics.org/media/1864/farm-antibiotics-and-trade-could-uk-standards-be-undermined-asoa-nov-2020.pdf
New Zealand ranks third in the world, after Iceland and Norway, in the list of OECD countries in the least antibiotic use in animals.
In the rare cases that they are used, they can only be administered by a vet, cannot be used as a growth supplement and cannot be used if its dangerous to humans.
Improved breeding and husbandry should see the end of any antibiotic use this decade.
Can you honestly say the same about current EU farming practices?
You won't get any answers from the Remainers because they don't even understand the issues.
I don't think they even knew what they were voting on
Oh the irony. Give ‘em enough rope though and all that."That's your abuse but any chance of an answer? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
What's a worse look is refusing to take responsibility for the cavalier action that is brexit.
But don't worry, the actions of Brexitters won't be forgotten.
I don't think the anti-democratic actions of Remainers will ever be forgotten. Certainly never forgiven. Brexiteers have fought for democracy; Remainers have fought for an end to democracy.
Incidentally, you still haven't explained what effect tariffs have on prices..."undemocratic? you fought to replace an elercted assembly with unelected appointees, your leader BoZo refused to have debates on the deals he was signing (he may have been hiding in a fridge). I was unaware you had asked me what the impact of tariffs was on prices, are you confused? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. And sheep farmers are definitely not the wealthiest bunch of farmers in any way. Losing over 60% of their price will crucify them. Rich farmers tend to be in the much larger landowners not your average or small farmers whom subsidies were intended to help. The system needed reform and whilst this was happening it was slow. New Zealand withdrew farm subsidies many years ago. But still NZ farming survives. They can send lamb in refrigerated ships to the other side of the world, yet still undercut my subsidised local lamb butcher by 50% or more.
Yes it’s called being owned by very large corporations along with industrial type production. Growth hormones, excess use of antibiotics and lower animal welfare. So yes let’s get our farmers to adopt that style of farming.. actually no I’d rather not.
New Zealand ranks in top place for world animal welfare standards and does not use growth hormones at all. The use of antibiotics has been stopped or is in the procedure of being stopped.
Isn't the largest agricultural company in New Zealand actually a cooperative owned by over 10000 farmers?
Yes you have just repeated what I believed to be true as well. However the reality according to researchers isn’t that good.
https://www.farmbusiness.co.uk/news/evidence-of-serious-misuse-of-antibiotics-in-farmed-animals-in-us-australia-new-zealand-and-canada-exposes-public-health-threat-of-trade-deals-campaigners-warn.html
This report below says that lamb antibiotics use is lower in lamb than other much higher use animals but growing and far less regulation than the previous EU controls. I thought we wanted to be able improve on the regulations according to Boris and Liz. The only way this ends is the U.K. producers join the race to the bottom on quality and safety.
https://saveourantibiotics.org/media/1864/farm-antibiotics-and-trade-could-uk-standards-be-undermined-asoa-nov-2020.pdf
New Zealand ranks third in the world, after Iceland and Norway, in the list of OECD countries in the least antibiotic use in animals.
In the rare cases that they are used, they can only be administered by a vet, cannot be used as a growth supplement and cannot be used if its dangerous to humans.
Improved breeding and husbandry should see the end of any antibiotic use this decade.
Can you honestly say the same about current EU farming practices?
You won't get any answers from the Remainers because they don't even understand the issues.
I don't think they even knew what they were voting on
Oh the irony. Give ‘em enough rope though and all that.
That's your abuse but any chance of an answer?"Abuse? You think that’s abuse? Jeez what a little snowflake you are. Responding to your constant stream of ill-informed drivel is utterly pointless. The Jehovah’s Witnesses of political discourse. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. And sheep farmers are definitely not the wealthiest bunch of farmers in any way. Losing over 60% of their price will crucify them. Rich farmers tend to be in the much larger landowners not your average or small farmers whom subsidies were intended to help. The system needed reform and whilst this was happening it was slow. New Zealand withdrew farm subsidies many years ago. But still NZ farming survives. They can send lamb in refrigerated ships to the other side of the world, yet still undercut my subsidised local lamb butcher by 50% or more.
Yes it’s called being owned by very large corporations along with industrial type production. Growth hormones, excess use of antibiotics and lower animal welfare. So yes let’s get our farmers to adopt that style of farming.. actually no I’d rather not.
New Zealand ranks in top place for world animal welfare standards and does not use growth hormones at all. The use of antibiotics has been stopped or is in the procedure of being stopped.
Isn't the largest agricultural company in New Zealand actually a cooperative owned by over 10000 farmers?
Yes you have just repeated what I believed to be true as well. However the reality according to researchers isn’t that good.
https://www.farmbusiness.co.uk/news/evidence-of-serious-misuse-of-antibiotics-in-farmed-animals-in-us-australia-new-zealand-and-canada-exposes-public-health-threat-of-trade-deals-campaigners-warn.html
This report below says that lamb antibiotics use is lower in lamb than other much higher use animals but growing and far less regulation than the previous EU controls. I thought we wanted to be able improve on the regulations according to Boris and Liz. The only way this ends is the U.K. producers join the race to the bottom on quality and safety.
https://saveourantibiotics.org/media/1864/farm-antibiotics-and-trade-could-uk-standards-be-undermined-asoa-nov-2020.pdf
New Zealand ranks third in the world, after Iceland and Norway, in the list of OECD countries in the least antibiotic use in animals.
In the rare cases that they are used, they can only be administered by a vet, cannot be used as a growth supplement and cannot be used if its dangerous to humans.
Improved breeding and husbandry should see the end of any antibiotic use this decade.
Can you honestly say the same about current EU farming practices?
You won't get any answers from the Remainers because they don't even understand the issues.
I don't think they even knew what they were voting on
Oh the irony. Give ‘em enough rope though and all that.
That's your abuse but any chance of an answer?
Abuse? You think that’s abuse? Jeez what a little snowflake you are. Responding to your constant stream of ill-informed drivel is utterly pointless. The Jehovah’s Witnesses of political discourse."As I have said, it is good that you get your bitterness off your chest. But you seem to have no answers! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
What's a worse look is refusing to take responsibility for the cavalier action that is brexit.
But don't worry, the actions of Brexitters won't be forgotten.
I don't think the anti-democratic actions of Remainers will ever be forgotten. Certainly never forgiven. Brexiteers have fought for democracy; Remainers have fought for an end to democracy.
Incidentally, you still haven't explained what effect tariffs have on prices...
undemocratic?
you fought to replace an elercted assembly with unelected appointees, your leader BoZo refused to have debates on the deals he was signing (he may have been hiding in a fridge).
I was unaware you had asked me what the impact of tariffs was on prices, are you confused?"Yes, democracy means power resides with the people. Monnet admitted that the EU had been designed to insulate governments from the people. For the fourth time, how do people change laws they don't like if they're in the EU? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. And sheep farmers are definitely not the wealthiest bunch of farmers in any way. Losing over 60% of their price will crucify them. Rich farmers tend to be in the much larger landowners not your average or small farmers whom subsidies were intended to help. The system needed reform and whilst this was happening it was slow. New Zealand withdrew farm subsidies many years ago. But still NZ farming survives. They can send lamb in refrigerated ships to the other side of the world, yet still undercut my subsidised local lamb butcher by 50% or more.
Yes it’s called being owned by very large corporations along with industrial type production. Growth hormones, excess use of antibiotics and lower animal welfare. So yes let’s get our farmers to adopt that style of farming.. actually no I’d rather not.
New Zealand ranks in top place for world animal welfare standards and does not use growth hormones at all. The use of antibiotics has been stopped or is in the procedure of being stopped.
Isn't the largest agricultural company in New Zealand actually a cooperative owned by over 10000 farmers?
Yes you have just repeated what I believed to be true as well. However the reality according to researchers isn’t that good.
https://www.farmbusiness.co.uk/news/evidence-of-serious-misuse-of-antibiotics-in-farmed-animals-in-us-australia-new-zealand-and-canada-exposes-public-health-threat-of-trade-deals-campaigners-warn.html
This report below says that lamb antibiotics use is lower in lamb than other much higher use animals but growing and far less regulation than the previous EU controls. I thought we wanted to be able improve on the regulations according to Boris and Liz. The only way this ends is the U.K. producers join the race to the bottom on quality and safety.
https://saveourantibiotics.org/media/1864/farm-antibiotics-and-trade-could-uk-standards-be-undermined-asoa-nov-2020.pdf
New Zealand ranks third in the world, after Iceland and Norway, in the list of OECD countries in the least antibiotic use in animals.
In the rare cases that they are used, they can only be administered by a vet, cannot be used as a growth supplement and cannot be used if its dangerous to humans.
Improved breeding and husbandry should see the end of any antibiotic use this decade.
Can you honestly say the same about current EU farming practices?
You won't get any answers from the Remainers because they don't even understand the issues.
I don't think they even knew what they were voting on
Oh the irony. Give ‘em enough rope though and all that.
That's your abuse but any chance of an answer?
Abuse? You think that’s abuse? Jeez what a little snowflake you are. Responding to your constant stream of ill-informed drivel is utterly pointless. The Jehovah’s Witnesses of political discourse.
As I have said, it is good that you get your bitterness off your chest. But you seem to have no answers!"Ah, bitterness. It’s brexiter bingo time! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Leg of lamb from NZ £10ish Leg of lamb from UK. £25ish And thats always been the case. UK lamb is seen as a premium product. And sheep farmers are definitely not the wealthiest bunch of farmers in any way. Losing over 60% of their price will crucify them. Rich farmers tend to be in the much larger landowners not your average or small farmers whom subsidies were intended to help. The system needed reform and whilst this was happening it was slow. New Zealand withdrew farm subsidies many years ago. But still NZ farming survives. They can send lamb in refrigerated ships to the other side of the world, yet still undercut my subsidised local lamb butcher by 50% or more.
Yes it’s called being owned by very large corporations along with industrial type production. Growth hormones, excess use of antibiotics and lower animal welfare. So yes let’s get our farmers to adopt that style of farming.. actually no I’d rather not.
New Zealand ranks in top place for world animal welfare standards and does not use growth hormones at all. The use of antibiotics has been stopped or is in the procedure of being stopped.
Isn't the largest agricultural company in New Zealand actually a cooperative owned by over 10000 farmers?
Yes you have just repeated what I believed to be true as well. However the reality according to researchers isn’t that good.
https://www.farmbusiness.co.uk/news/evidence-of-serious-misuse-of-antibiotics-in-farmed-animals-in-us-australia-new-zealand-and-canada-exposes-public-health-threat-of-trade-deals-campaigners-warn.html
This report below says that lamb antibiotics use is lower in lamb than other much higher use animals but growing and far less regulation than the previous EU controls. I thought we wanted to be able improve on the regulations according to Boris and Liz. The only way this ends is the U.K. producers join the race to the bottom on quality and safety.
https://saveourantibiotics.org/media/1864/farm-antibiotics-and-trade-could-uk-standards-be-undermined-asoa-nov-2020.pdf
New Zealand ranks third in the world, after Iceland and Norway, in the list of OECD countries in the least antibiotic use in animals.
In the rare cases that they are used, they can only be administered by a vet, cannot be used as a growth supplement and cannot be used if its dangerous to humans.
Improved breeding and husbandry should see the end of any antibiotic use this decade.
Can you honestly say the same about current EU farming practices?
You won't get any answers from the Remainers because they don't even understand the issues.
I don't think they even knew what they were voting on
Oh the irony. Give ‘em enough rope though and all that.
That's your abuse but any chance of an answer?
Abuse? You think that’s abuse? Jeez what a little snowflake you are. Responding to your constant stream of ill-informed drivel is utterly pointless. The Jehovah’s Witnesses of political discourse.
As I have said, it is good that you get your bitterness off your chest. But you seem to have no answers!
Ah, bitterness. It’s brexiter bingo time!
"Why not come up with some arguments instead of repeating abuse which is easily shown up as ignorant? Do you know any? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look." | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
"Any answers? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
Any answers?"Answers to what? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"At least we have our freedom. and Blue passports
And the right to sack the people who make your laws. You couldn't do that in the EU
I know you guys are mocking here. But some news outlets still peddle this nonsense. I can only assume that some people are still believing it.
In what sense is telling the truth 'mocking'?
The House of Commons library confirmed that 67% of UK laws were derived from EU Directives.
Tell me, how would you change one of those laws?"Do you know how many of these lawns have been removed or changed since we left? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
Any answers?
Answers to what? "About who generates imports/exports, about the effect of tariffs on prices, about why Remainers are anti-democratic? You've had months | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
What's a worse look is refusing to take responsibility for the cavalier action that is brexit.
But don't worry, the actions of Brexitters won't be forgotten.
I don't think the anti-democratic actions of Remainers will ever be forgotten. Certainly never forgiven. Brexiteers have fought for democracy; Remainers have fought for an end to democracy.
Incidentally, you still haven't explained what effect tariffs have on prices...
If you think this country is democratic then you need to do a lot more reading.
If we had proportional representation I’d agree but our first past the post system is just nonsense. Two thirds of voters didn’t vote for the Tories and yet they hold absolute power. That’s not democratic . Where is the voice of those who didn’t vote them in?
60% of candidates are parachuted in by central offices of labour and Tory. That’s not democracy that’s being told who you can vote for.
No party should be allowed large donations. Put a £5k limit in so no undue leverage or influence from individuals, business or unions. . Restrict newspapers from political opinion during an election period. Only report the news as factual.
Local councils and MPs are directed by central office on what policies to adopt.regardless of local need. Oldham doesn’t have the same needs as Great Yarmouth so why would the policies be the same.
My view is local councils should not be any part of a national party and only act on their local need. Starting to rant so that’s enough.
Yes. We have the principle that WE make our rules. And we can sack our rulers. And thus we can change laws if they don't suit us.
Monnet admitted that the EU had been designed to insulate the lawmakers from the public. You defend that?!
How do people in the EU change laws they don't like?"If a country has PR it sends a truer view of their wants and needs to the EU for a start. We elected MEPs who then with their fellow members could elect commissioners etc. When did you last vote in the Home Secretary? You never have and you never will. The EU way is in reality a better system as the best person was picked and elected as a commissioner not the favoured political candidate of one party who will do as they are told. All views have to be included rather than the dictatorship we have. Your thoughts on the U.K. being more democratic are an illusion pushed by the media who influence you too much. The EU invested in regions that needed it. Including here in the U.K. . Why on earth did those regions need it? Our own government spending has been totally bias towards London for decades at the expense of all other areas. Exception when they tried to buy the Scottish vote. All we had representing us in the EU was the likes of Farage doing nothing to help anyone in the U.K. Feel free to read all his efforts of refusing to help Uk fishermen much to the frustration of both the EU and U.K. fishermen. (I have btw and that guy is a disgrace). I will also say not all of the Labour and Tory MEPs pushed our argument even though we always had veto rights on most things. We had the best of it and far more influence than most. The problem was who pays for the big parties decided the EU was not good because they couldn’t control it like they do the U.K. parties. Ultimately the tax laws proposed spurred them into action to start Brexit. The broad spectrum of EU members gave a true balanced view of needs for the EU parliament. Voting power was based on population so we had a fair share of the votes ( that’s a version P/R ). We just believed the right wing nonsense and didn’t get fully informed of the positives like a better stable, growing, economy and fairer chance for all. All we’ve done with Brexit is reduce the size of our economy and make it much more expensive to trade with our biggest market. Global logistics means expansion overseas for manufacturers will lead to more factories overseas not here. JCB, Dyson for example. In 2009 Lord Bamford announced their Indian plant would be made into their largest manufacturing site. If it’s so easy to export from the U.K. why isn’t it all built here? He said we need to build and export more. So why India? You all know why. It’s cheaper and closer to the growing markets. That’s thousands and thousands of jobs. Interesting how the new potential trade deal with India is being touted so much. Tariff free JCB parts into the U.K. sounds a good idea. Dyson kept the ideas department here but for his biggest market and manufacturing not a chance. Far to expensive. Those country’s labour costs around the world will ensure they can still afford to ship to us. Democracy here?.. yea right, you keep pretending. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
What's a worse look is refusing to take responsibility for the cavalier action that is brexit.
But don't worry, the actions of Brexitters won't be forgotten.
I don't think the anti-democratic actions of Remainers will ever be forgotten. Certainly never forgiven. Brexiteers have fought for democracy; Remainers have fought for an end to democracy.
Incidentally, you still haven't explained what effect tariffs have on prices...
If you think this country is democratic then you need to do a lot more reading.
If we had proportional representation I’d agree but our first past the post system is just nonsense. Two thirds of voters didn’t vote for the Tories and yet they hold absolute power. That’s not democratic . Where is the voice of those who didn’t vote them in?
60% of candidates are parachuted in by central offices of labour and Tory. That’s not democracy that’s being told who you can vote for.
No party should be allowed large donations. Put a £5k limit in so no undue leverage or influence from individuals, business or unions. . Restrict newspapers from political opinion during an election period. Only report the news as factual.
Local councils and MPs are directed by central office on what policies to adopt.regardless of local need. Oldham doesn’t have the same needs as Great Yarmouth so why would the policies be the same.
My view is local councils should not be any part of a national party and only act on their local need. Starting to rant so that’s enough.
Yes. We have the principle that WE make our rules. And we can sack our rulers. And thus we can change laws if they don't suit us.
Monnet admitted that the EU had been designed to insulate the lawmakers from the public. You defend that?!
How do people in the EU change laws they don't like?
If a country has PR it sends a truer view of their wants and needs to the EU for a start.
We elected MEPs who then with their fellow members could elect commissioners etc.
When did you last vote in the Home Secretary? You never have and you never will. The EU way is in reality a better system as the best person was picked and elected as a commissioner not the favoured political candidate of one party who will do as they are told.
All views have to be included rather than the dictatorship we have. Your thoughts on the U.K. being more democratic are an illusion pushed by the media who influence you too much.
The EU invested in regions that needed it. Including here in the U.K. . Why on earth did those regions need it? Our own government spending has been totally bias towards London for decades at the expense of all other areas. Exception when they tried to buy the Scottish vote.
All we had representing us in the EU was the likes of Farage doing nothing to help anyone in the U.K. Feel free to read all his efforts of refusing to help Uk fishermen much to the frustration of both the EU and U.K. fishermen. (I have btw and that guy is a disgrace). I will also say not all of the Labour and Tory MEPs pushed our argument even though we always had veto rights on most things. We had the best of it and far more influence than most. The problem was who pays for the big parties decided the EU was not good because they couldn’t control it like they do the U.K. parties.
Ultimately the tax laws proposed spurred them into action to start Brexit.
The broad spectrum of EU members gave a true balanced view of needs for the EU parliament. Voting power was based on population so we had a fair share of the votes ( that’s a version P/R ). We just believed the right wing nonsense and didn’t get fully informed of the positives like a better stable, growing, economy and fairer chance for all.
All we’ve done with Brexit is reduce the size of our economy and make it much more expensive to trade with our biggest market. Global logistics means expansion overseas for manufacturers will lead to more factories overseas not here. JCB, Dyson for example. In 2009 Lord Bamford announced their Indian plant would be made into their largest manufacturing site. If it’s so easy to export from the U.K. why isn’t it all built here? He said we need to build and export more. So why India? You all know why. It’s cheaper and closer to the growing markets. That’s thousands and thousands of jobs. Interesting how the new potential trade deal with India is being touted so much. Tariff free JCB parts into the U.K. sounds a good idea. Dyson kept the ideas department here but for his biggest market and manufacturing not a chance. Far to expensive.
Those country’s labour costs around the world will ensure they can still afford to ship to us.
Democracy here?.. yea right, you keep pretending.
"You do realise that the EU 'parliament' can't make laws? They are a sham so the EU can 'counter' people who point out how it is undemocratic. EU spending? We sent them tenners and they sent us fivers back! True, yes? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
Any answers?
Answers to what?
About who generates imports/exports, about the effect of tariffs on prices, about why Remainers are anti-democratic?
You've had months "Your rambling again, it’s not a good lock . Can you let me know what we are going to sell to these Trans Pacific nations? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
Any answers?
Answers to what?
About who generates imports/exports, about the effect of tariffs on prices, about why Remainers are anti-democratic?
You've had months
Your rambling again, it’s not a good lock . Can you let me know what we are going to sell to these Trans Pacific nations? "It won't be up to you. Or me. Or the government. It will be up to entrepreneurs and workers, designing and making goods and then going out to seek buyers. I told you that yesterday! You don't answer the points you just repeat yourself | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
What's a worse look is refusing to take responsibility for the cavalier action that is brexit.
But don't worry, the actions of Brexitters won't be forgotten.
I don't think the anti-democratic actions of Remainers will ever be forgotten. Certainly never forgiven. Brexiteers have fought for democracy; Remainers have fought for an end to democracy.
Incidentally, you still haven't explained what effect tariffs have on prices...
If you think this country is democratic then you need to do a lot more reading.
If we had proportional representation I’d agree but our first past the post system is just nonsense. Two thirds of voters didn’t vote for the Tories and yet they hold absolute power. That’s not democratic . Where is the voice of those who didn’t vote them in?
60% of candidates are parachuted in by central offices of labour and Tory. That’s not democracy that’s being told who you can vote for.
No party should be allowed large donations. Put a £5k limit in so no undue leverage or influence from individuals, business or unions. . Restrict newspapers from political opinion during an election period. Only report the news as factual.
Local councils and MPs are directed by central office on what policies to adopt.regardless of local need. Oldham doesn’t have the same needs as Great Yarmouth so why would the policies be the same.
My view is local councils should not be any part of a national party and only act on their local need. Starting to rant so that’s enough.
Yes. We have the principle that WE make our rules. And we can sack our rulers. And thus we can change laws if they don't suit us.
Monnet admitted that the EU had been designed to insulate the lawmakers from the public. You defend that?!
How do people in the EU change laws they don't like?
If a country has PR it sends a truer view of their wants and needs to the EU for a start.
We elected MEPs who then with their fellow members could elect commissioners etc.
When did you last vote in the Home Secretary? You never have and you never will. The EU way is in reality a better system as the best person was picked and elected as a commissioner not the favoured political candidate of one party who will do as they are told.
All views have to be included rather than the dictatorship we have. Your thoughts on the U.K. being more democratic are an illusion pushed by the media who influence you too much.
The EU invested in regions that needed it. Including here in the U.K. . Why on earth did those regions need it? Our own government spending has been totally bias towards London for decades at the expense of all other areas. Exception when they tried to buy the Scottish vote.
All we had representing us in the EU was the likes of Farage doing nothing to help anyone in the U.K. Feel free to read all his efforts of refusing to help Uk fishermen much to the frustration of both the EU and U.K. fishermen. (I have btw and that guy is a disgrace). I will also say not all of the Labour and Tory MEPs pushed our argument even though we always had veto rights on most things. We had the best of it and far more influence than most. The problem was who pays for the big parties decided the EU was not good because they couldn’t control it like they do the U.K. parties.
Ultimately the tax laws proposed spurred them into action to start Brexit.
The broad spectrum of EU members gave a true balanced view of needs for the EU parliament. Voting power was based on population so we had a fair share of the votes ( that’s a version P/R ). We just believed the right wing nonsense and didn’t get fully informed of the positives like a better stable, growing, economy and fairer chance for all.
All we’ve done with Brexit is reduce the size of our economy and make it much more expensive to trade with our biggest market. Global logistics means expansion overseas for manufacturers will lead to more factories overseas not here. JCB, Dyson for example. In 2009 Lord Bamford announced their Indian plant would be made into their largest manufacturing site. If it’s so easy to export from the U.K. why isn’t it all built here? He said we need to build and export more. So why India? You all know why. It’s cheaper and closer to the growing markets. That’s thousands and thousands of jobs. Interesting how the new potential trade deal with India is being touted so much. Tariff free JCB parts into the U.K. sounds a good idea. Dyson kept the ideas department here but for his biggest market and manufacturing not a chance. Far to expensive.
Those country’s labour costs around the world will ensure they can still afford to ship to us.
Democracy here?.. yea right, you keep pretending.
You do realise that the EU 'parliament' can't make laws? They are a sham so the EU can 'counter' people who point out how it is undemocratic.
EU spending? We sent them tenners and they sent us fivers back! True, yes?"The parliament elected commissioners like we appoint ministers. So tell me how do you explain the Whips? if we can change anything why do we need whips? Because the back bench MPs are told what to do. True, re your tenner. How many tenners do we send to the U.K. government and how many do we get back? Transport spending in London £3500 per person Manchester £700 per person Newcastle £300 for example. The EU was a bargain in comparison. I agree costs could have been cut but they know that. We have 650 MPs twice as many as the USA and more than India . Why not a cut here? With the EU we achieved consistently growing sales exports and imported good at a very much lower cost . Keeping prices down actually. Goods are now going to cost more. Remember we import far more than we export. We have now lost more than our total contributions since our entry. So you think free trade with others like China will fill this gap? I pay for a membership for its benefits. If there were none I wouldn’t have been a member. In this case the benefits outweighed the costs many many times over. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
What's a worse look is refusing to take responsibility for the cavalier action that is brexit.
But don't worry, the actions of Brexitters won't be forgotten.
I don't think the anti-democratic actions of Remainers will ever be forgotten. Certainly never forgiven. Brexiteers have fought for democracy; Remainers have fought for an end to democracy.
Incidentally, you still haven't explained what effect tariffs have on prices...
If you think this country is democratic then you need to do a lot more reading.
If we had proportional representation I’d agree but our first past the post system is just nonsense. Two thirds of voters didn’t vote for the Tories and yet they hold absolute power. That’s not democratic . Where is the voice of those who didn’t vote them in?
60% of candidates are parachuted in by central offices of labour and Tory. That’s not democracy that’s being told who you can vote for.
No party should be allowed large donations. Put a £5k limit in so no undue leverage or influence from individuals, business or unions. . Restrict newspapers from political opinion during an election period. Only report the news as factual.
Local councils and MPs are directed by central office on what policies to adopt.regardless of local need. Oldham doesn’t have the same needs as Great Yarmouth so why would the policies be the same.
My view is local councils should not be any part of a national party and only act on their local need. Starting to rant so that’s enough.
Yes. We have the principle that WE make our rules. And we can sack our rulers. And thus we can change laws if they don't suit us.
Monnet admitted that the EU had been designed to insulate the lawmakers from the public. You defend that?!
How do people in the EU change laws they don't like?
If a country has PR it sends a truer view of their wants and needs to the EU for a start.
We elected MEPs who then with their fellow members could elect commissioners etc.
When did you last vote in the Home Secretary? You never have and you never will. The EU way is in reality a better system as the best person was picked and elected as a commissioner not the favoured political candidate of one party who will do as they are told.
All views have to be included rather than the dictatorship we have. Your thoughts on the U.K. being more democratic are an illusion pushed by the media who influence you too much.
The EU invested in regions that needed it. Including here in the U.K. . Why on earth did those regions need it? Our own government spending has been totally bias towards London for decades at the expense of all other areas. Exception when they tried to buy the Scottish vote.
All we had representing us in the EU was the likes of Farage doing nothing to help anyone in the U.K. Feel free to read all his efforts of refusing to help Uk fishermen much to the frustration of both the EU and U.K. fishermen. (I have btw and that guy is a disgrace). I will also say not all of the Labour and Tory MEPs pushed our argument even though we always had veto rights on most things. We had the best of it and far more influence than most. The problem was who pays for the big parties decided the EU was not good because they couldn’t control it like they do the U.K. parties.
Ultimately the tax laws proposed spurred them into action to start Brexit.
The broad spectrum of EU members gave a true balanced view of needs for the EU parliament. Voting power was based on population so we had a fair share of the votes ( that’s a version P/R ). We just believed the right wing nonsense and didn’t get fully informed of the positives like a better stable, growing, economy and fairer chance for all.
All we’ve done with Brexit is reduce the size of our economy and make it much more expensive to trade with our biggest market. Global logistics means expansion overseas for manufacturers will lead to more factories overseas not here. JCB, Dyson for example. In 2009 Lord Bamford announced their Indian plant would be made into their largest manufacturing site. If it’s so easy to export from the U.K. why isn’t it all built here? He said we need to build and export more. So why India? You all know why. It’s cheaper and closer to the growing markets. That’s thousands and thousands of jobs. Interesting how the new potential trade deal with India is being touted so much. Tariff free JCB parts into the U.K. sounds a good idea. Dyson kept the ideas department here but for his biggest market and manufacturing not a chance. Far to expensive.
Those country’s labour costs around the world will ensure they can still afford to ship to us.
Democracy here?.. yea right, you keep pretending.
You do realise that the EU 'parliament' can't make laws? They are a sham so the EU can 'counter' people who point out how it is undemocratic.
EU spending? We sent them tenners and they sent us fivers back! True, yes?
The parliament elected commissioners like we appoint ministers. So tell me how do you explain the Whips? if we can change anything why do we need whips? Because the back bench MPs are told what to do.
True, re your tenner. How many tenners do we send to the U.K. government and how many do we get back?
Transport spending in London £3500 per person Manchester £700 per person Newcastle £300 for example. The EU was a bargain in comparison. I agree costs could have been cut but they know that. We have 650 MPs twice as many as the USA and more than India . Why not a cut here?
With the EU we achieved consistently growing sales exports and imported good at a very much lower cost . Keeping prices down actually. Goods are now going to cost more. Remember we import far more than we export.
We have now lost more than our total contributions since our entry. So you think free trade with others like China will fill this gap?
I pay for a membership for its benefits. If there were none I wouldn’t have been a member. In this case the benefits outweighed the costs many many times over. "The 'parliament' doesn't elect Commissioners. Tell me how they do that? Then tell me how that undermines Monnet's admission that the EU was actually designed to be undemocratic | |||
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" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
What's a worse look is refusing to take responsibility for the cavalier action that is brexit.
But don't worry, the actions of Brexitters won't be forgotten.
I don't think the anti-democratic actions of Remainers will ever be forgotten. Certainly never forgiven. Brexiteers have fought for democracy; Remainers have fought for an end to democracy.
Incidentally, you still haven't explained what effect tariffs have on prices...
If you think this country is democratic then you need to do a lot more reading.
If we had proportional representation I’d agree but our first past the post system is just nonsense. Two thirds of voters didn’t vote for the Tories and yet they hold absolute power. That’s not democratic . Where is the voice of those who didn’t vote them in?
60% of candidates are parachuted in by central offices of labour and Tory. That’s not democracy that’s being told who you can vote for.
No party should be allowed large donations. Put a £5k limit in so no undue leverage or influence from individuals, business or unions. . Restrict newspapers from political opinion during an election period. Only report the news as factual.
Local councils and MPs are directed by central office on what policies to adopt.regardless of local need. Oldham doesn’t have the same needs as Great Yarmouth so why would the policies be the same.
My view is local councils should not be any part of a national party and only act on their local need. Starting to rant so that’s enough.
Yes. We have the principle that WE make our rules. And we can sack our rulers. And thus we can change laws if they don't suit us.
Monnet admitted that the EU had been designed to insulate the lawmakers from the public. You defend that?!
How do people in the EU change laws they don't like?
If a country has PR it sends a truer view of their wants and needs to the EU for a start.
We elected MEPs who then with their fellow members could elect commissioners etc.
When did you last vote in the Home Secretary? You never have and you never will. The EU way is in reality a better system as the best person was picked and elected as a commissioner not the favoured political candidate of one party who will do as they are told.
All views have to be included rather than the dictatorship we have. Your thoughts on the U.K. being more democratic are an illusion pushed by the media who influence you too much.
The EU invested in regions that needed it. Including here in the U.K. . Why on earth did those regions need it? Our own government spending has been totally bias towards London for decades at the expense of all other areas. Exception when they tried to buy the Scottish vote.
All we had representing us in the EU was the likes of Farage doing nothing to help anyone in the U.K. Feel free to read all his efforts of refusing to help Uk fishermen much to the frustration of both the EU and U.K. fishermen. (I have btw and that guy is a disgrace). I will also say not all of the Labour and Tory MEPs pushed our argument even though we always had veto rights on most things. We had the best of it and far more influence than most. The problem was who pays for the big parties decided the EU was not good because they couldn’t control it like they do the U.K. parties.
Ultimately the tax laws proposed spurred them into action to start Brexit.
The broad spectrum of EU members gave a true balanced view of needs for the EU parliament. Voting power was based on population so we had a fair share of the votes ( that’s a version P/R ). We just believed the right wing nonsense and didn’t get fully informed of the positives like a better stable, growing, economy and fairer chance for all.
All we’ve done with Brexit is reduce the size of our economy and make it much more expensive to trade with our biggest market. Global logistics means expansion overseas for manufacturers will lead to more factories overseas not here. JCB, Dyson for example. In 2009 Lord Bamford announced their Indian plant would be made into their largest manufacturing site. If it’s so easy to export from the U.K. why isn’t it all built here? He said we need to build and export more. So why India? You all know why. It’s cheaper and closer to the growing markets. That’s thousands and thousands of jobs. Interesting how the new potential trade deal with India is being touted so much. Tariff free JCB parts into the U.K. sounds a good idea. Dyson kept the ideas department here but for his biggest market and manufacturing not a chance. Far to expensive.
Those country’s labour costs around the world will ensure they can still afford to ship to us.
Democracy here?.. yea right, you keep pretending.
You do realise that the EU 'parliament' can't make laws? They are a sham so the EU can 'counter' people who point out how it is undemocratic.
EU spending? We sent them tenners and they sent us fivers back! True, yes?
The parliament elected commissioners like we appoint ministers. So tell me how do you explain the Whips? if we can change anything why do we need whips? Because the back bench MPs are told what to do.
True, re your tenner. How many tenners do we send to the U.K. government and how many do we get back?
Transport spending in London £3500 per person Manchester £700 per person Newcastle £300 for example. The EU was a bargain in comparison. I agree costs could have been cut but they know that. We have 650 MPs twice as many as the USA and more than India . Why not a cut here?
With the EU we achieved consistently growing sales exports and imported good at a very much lower cost . Keeping prices down actually. Goods are now going to cost more. Remember we import far more than we export.
We have now lost more than our total contributions since our entry. So you think free trade with others like China will fill this gap?
I pay for a membership for its benefits. If there were none I wouldn’t have been a member. In this case the benefits outweighed the costs many many times over.
The 'parliament' doesn't elect Commissioners.
Tell me how they do that?
Then tell me how that undermines Monnet's admission that the EU was actually designed to be undemocratic"When did Monnet say this? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"At least we have our freedom. and Blue passports
And the right to sack the people who make your laws. You couldn't do that in the EU
I know you guys are mocking here. But some news outlets still peddle this nonsense. I can only assume that some people are still believing it.
In what sense is telling the truth 'mocking'?
The House of Commons library confirmed that 67% of UK laws were derived from EU Directives.
Tell me, how would you change one of those laws?"Oh you were being serious. Blimey. If you don't understand what the EU is and how it works, getting angry and demanding answers to random questions from random people on a swingers site won't help. Their own site explains a lot about how it all works. https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu_en | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" To the best of my knowledge ALL foodstuffs from abroad had tariffs imposed by the EU. Free Trade has always been a great liberal rallying call because it keeps prices low. When Britain joined the EU countries like NZ had these tariffs imposed and prices went up. Many NZ food producers could no longer afford to send cheap food to the UK. This NZ trade deal aims at free trade which will reduce prices. Now you understand...why are you supporting landowners at the expense of working people? Can I say that I really admire the way you wrote this with such confidence…… unfortunately none of it is actually true, but it sounds so convincing…. Double points for having the moxy to then defend it with such gusto!!!!
Tariff’s governing international trade have been around have been around since GATT, which was the legal document signed just after world war 2….. basically WTO terms is the successor to GATT, but the original outline for the rules apply….
Spoiler…. GATT predates any form of EU by a good 15 ish years… and 25 before The UK joined the EU…..
Anyway…. As you were…. Carry on!!!
I believe the technical term is "schooled"
Yes, GATT aims for nil tariffs but is blocked by the EU.
Britain now has nil tariffs on 97% of trade with NZ.
Free trade is always best
What exactly will we sell them under this free trade arrangement ?
Unicorns
It's not up to you or I. Or government. It's up to entrepreneurs and workers to devise stuff and make stuff and then go out and find markets for that stuff.
Interesting to see how dismissive you are of their efforts. Not a good look.
What's a worse look is refusing to take responsibility for the cavalier action that is brexit.
But don't worry, the actions of Brexitters won't be forgotten.
I don't think the anti-democratic actions of Remainers will ever be forgotten. Certainly never forgiven. Brexiteers have fought for democracy; Remainers have fought for an end to democracy.
Incidentally, you still haven't explained what effect tariffs have on prices...
If you think this country is democratic then you need to do a lot more reading.
If we had proportional representation I’d agree but our first past the post system is just nonsense. Two thirds of voters didn’t vote for the Tories and yet they hold absolute power. That’s not democratic . Where is the voice of those who didn’t vote them in?
60% of candidates are parachuted in by central offices of labour and Tory. That’s not democracy that’s being told who you can vote for.
No party should be allowed large donations. Put a £5k limit in so no undue leverage or influence from individuals, business or unions. . Restrict newspapers from political opinion during an election period. Only report the news as factual.
Local councils and MPs are directed by central office on what policies to adopt.regardless of local need. Oldham doesn’t have the same needs as Great Yarmouth so why would the policies be the same.
My view is local councils should not be any part of a national party and only act on their local need. Starting to rant so that’s enough.
Yes. We have the principle that WE make our rules. And we can sack our rulers. And thus we can change laws if they don't suit us.
Monnet admitted that the EU had been designed to insulate the lawmakers from the public. You defend that?!
How do people in the EU change laws they don't like?
If a country has PR it sends a truer view of their wants and needs to the EU for a start.
We elected MEPs who then with their fellow members could elect commissioners etc.
When did you last vote in the Home Secretary? You never have and you never will. The EU way is in reality a better system as the best person was picked and elected as a commissioner not the favoured political candidate of one party who will do as they are told.
All views have to be included rather than the dictatorship we have. Your thoughts on the U.K. being more democratic are an illusion pushed by the media who influence you too much.
The EU invested in regions that needed it. Including here in the U.K. . Why on earth did those regions need it? Our own government spending has been totally bias towards London for decades at the expense of all other areas. Exception when they tried to buy the Scottish vote.
All we had representing us in the EU was the likes of Farage doing nothing to help anyone in the U.K. Feel free to read all his efforts of refusing to help Uk fishermen much to the frustration of both the EU and U.K. fishermen. (I have btw and that guy is a disgrace). I will also say not all of the Labour and Tory MEPs pushed our argument even though we always had veto rights on most things. We had the best of it and far more influence than most. The problem was who pays for the big parties decided the EU was not good because they couldn’t control it like they do the U.K. parties.
Ultimately the tax laws proposed spurred them into action to start Brexit.
The broad spectrum of EU members gave a true balanced view of needs for the EU parliament. Voting power was based on population so we had a fair share of the votes ( that’s a version P/R ). We just believed the right wing nonsense and didn’t get fully informed of the positives like a better stable, growing, economy and fairer chance for all.
All we’ve done with Brexit is reduce the size of our economy and make it much more expensive to trade with our biggest market. Global logistics means expansion overseas for manufacturers will lead to more factories overseas not here. JCB, Dyson for example. In 2009 Lord Bamford announced their Indian plant would be made into their largest manufacturing site. If it’s so easy to export from the U.K. why isn’t it all built here? He said we need to build and export more. So why India? You all know why. It’s cheaper and closer to the growing markets. That’s thousands and thousands of jobs. Interesting how the new potential trade deal with India is being touted so much. Tariff free JCB parts into the U.K. sounds a good idea. Dyson kept the ideas department here but for his biggest market and manufacturing not a chance. Far to expensive.
Those country’s labour costs around the world will ensure they can still afford to ship to us.
Democracy here?.. yea right, you keep pretending.
You do realise that the EU 'parliament' can't make laws? They are a sham so the EU can 'counter' people who point out how it is undemocratic.
EU spending? We sent them tenners and they sent us fivers back! True, yes?
The parliament elected commissioners like we appoint ministers. So tell me how do you explain the Whips? if we can change anything why do we need whips? Because the back bench MPs are told what to do.
True, re your tenner. How many tenners do we send to the U.K. government and how many do we get back?
Transport spending in London £3500 per person Manchester £700 per person Newcastle £300 for example. The EU was a bargain in comparison. I agree costs could have been cut but they know that. We have 650 MPs twice as many as the USA and more than India . Why not a cut here?
With the EU we achieved consistently growing sales exports and imported good at a very much lower cost . Keeping prices down actually. Goods are now going to cost more. Remember we import far more than we export.
We have now lost more than our total contributions since our entry. So you think free trade with others like China will fill this gap?
I pay for a membership for its benefits. If there were none I wouldn’t have been a member. In this case the benefits outweighed the costs many many times over.
The 'parliament' doesn't elect Commissioners.
Tell me how they do that?
Then tell me how that undermines Monnet's admission that the EU was actually designed to be undemocratic"Please compare the below with the choice being made by one person in the U.K. . Who’s own job was given to him by his own party not Parliament. We get Hancock, Failing and Gove along with excitable Truss. And the EU get fully vetted and throughly checked leaders . Amazing that you believe our system is better. Can you name one successful Transport secretary in the U.K. ? No because it’s not taken seriously even though it’s critical infrastructure it’s a transient job on the way to other more impressive status jobs. How are the Commission President and Commissioners appointed? The European Parliament elects the Commission President. After the elections, one of the first tasks of an incoming Parliament is to elect a new President of the European Commission (the EU’s executive body). Member states nominate a candidate for the post, but in doing so they must take account of the European election results. Moreover, Parliament needs to approve the new Commission President by an absolute majority (half of the existing MEPs plus one). If the candidate doesn’t obtain the required majority, the member states need to propose another candidate within a month's time (European Council acting by qualified majority). For the 2014 elections, Parliament introduced the system of lead candidates. Each European political party put forward a candidate for Commission president and the party which became the biggest in the elections could propose Parliament’s candidate for the nomination for the Commission leadership. Commissioners Candidates for the remaining Commission portfolios have to go through a tough parliamentary vetting process too. The Council, in agreement with the Commission President-elect, adopts a list of candidate commissioners, one for each member state. These Commissioners-designate appear before parliamentary committees in their prospective fields of responsibility. Each committee then meets to draw up its evaluation of the candidate's expertise and performance, which is sent to the President of the Parliament. A negative evaluation has prompted candidates in the past to withdraw from the process. The full Commission, including the Commission President and the High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, then needs to be approved in a single vote of consent by Parliament. After the President and Commissioners have been approved by Parliament, they are formally appointed by the Council, acting by a qualified majority. In the event of a substantial portfolio change during the Commission's term of office, the filling of a vacancy or the appointment of a new Commissioner following the accession of a new member state, the Commissioners concerned is heard again before the relevant committees. Works very well and all applicants from Whatever party must be capable . It’s far more democratic than “The PM says so”. which is what we have. Incompetent applicants are rejected . I wonder how far would Boris have got?? | |||
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