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"It's an M&S Brexit bonus. M&S announced they're closing all 11 of their French stores due to Brexit. (But I'm sure this is really nothing to do with Brexit.) " as its11 out of 21 not all it's all about supply not just from this great land but world wide | |||
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"It's an M&S Brexit bonus. M&S announced they're closing all 11 of their French stores due to Brexit. (But I'm sure this is really nothing to do with Brexit.) as its11 out of 21 not all it's all about supply not just from this great land but world wide " Yup knew it had to be nothing to do with Brexit. Apparently, nothing is. | |||
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"It's an M&S Brexit bonus. M&S announced they're closing all 11 of their French stores due to Brexit. (But I'm sure this is really nothing to do with Brexit.) as its11 out of 21 not all it's all about supply not just from this great land but world wide " ?? | |||
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""M&S has a long history of serving customers in France and this is not a decision we or our partner SFH have taken lightly," Paul Friston, M&S' international director, said. "As things stand today, the supply chain complexities in place following the UK’s exit from the European Union, now make it near impossible for us to serve fresh and chilled products to customers to the high standards they expect, resulting in an ongoing impact to the performance of our business," he added." You have to feel for the French citizens missing out on m&s prawn sarnies. | |||
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""M&S has a long history of serving customers in France and this is not a decision we or our partner SFH have taken lightly," Paul Friston, M&S' international director, said. "As things stand today, the supply chain complexities in place following the UK’s exit from the European Union, now make it near impossible for us to serve fresh and chilled products to customers to the high standards they expect, resulting in an ongoing impact to the performance of our business," he added.You have to feel for the French citizens missing out on m&s prawn sarnies." As long as the closures and layoffs are nothing to do with Brexit. I was worried for a moment Brexit might have caused this. Then I reminded myself Brexit apparently causes no bad things ever. Nope. Never. No way. | |||
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""M&S has a long history of serving customers in France and this is not a decision we or our partner SFH have taken lightly," Paul Friston, M&S' international director, said. "As things stand today, the supply chain complexities in place following the UK’s exit from the European Union, now make it near impossible for us to serve fresh and chilled products to customers to the high standards they expect, resulting in an ongoing impact to the performance of our business," he added.You have to feel for the French citizens missing out on m&s prawn sarnies. As long as the closures and layoffs are nothing to do with Brexit. I was worried for a moment Brexit might have caused this. Then I reminded myself Brexit apparently causes no bad things ever. Nope. Never. No way." What makes you say that when the international director clearly states it is? | |||
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""M&S has a long history of serving customers in France and this is not a decision we or our partner SFH have taken lightly," Paul Friston, M&S' international director, said. "As things stand today, the supply chain complexities in place following the UK’s exit from the European Union, now make it near impossible for us to serve fresh and chilled products to customers to the high standards they expect, resulting in an ongoing impact to the performance of our business," he added.You have to feel for the French citizens missing out on m&s prawn sarnies. As long as the closures and layoffs are nothing to do with Brexit. I was worried for a moment Brexit might have caused this. Then I reminded myself Brexit apparently causes no bad things ever. Nope. Never. No way.What makes you say that when the international director clearly states it is?" whhhooooooooossh lol | |||
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"So why is it to do with brexit if it’s just french stores effected? Surely they are within the EU!" "Chairman Archie Norman has complained for months that M&S was struggling to get goods into Ireland and France since Britain left the EU single market at the beginning of the year, due to the huge amount of extra paperwork." I assume it's linked to that. Wait, what am I saying? Brexit never has no downsides! Nuh uh. | |||
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"yes i bet those French franchises and their workers are well happy they are all out of work." Looks like a straight race to the French benefits office between the M&S staff and the French sub builders. | |||
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"Some Remainers are determined to be unhappy. But consider what the end of the EUs free movement of labour means: 1. Wages rising at the fastest rate in decades; 2. Wincanton, the UK's largest haulage firm, increasing drivers' pay by 30%; 3. Costa Coffee has raised wages by 5%. More may be to follow; 4. Amazon is offering a £1000 signing on bonus; 5. Pets at Home is doing the same. Bosses have previously been able to keep wages low/reduce wages by importing cheap EU labour. No more. They have to compete to get workers. Stuart Rose, chairman of the Remain campaign in the referendum and a retail employer, WARNED that wages would go up. That was why people voted for Brexit!" and what about inflation?…… inflation for many people is currently outstripping wage rises. | |||
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"Some Remainers are determined to be unhappy. But consider what the end of the EUs free movement of labour means: 1. Wages rising at the fastest rate in decades; 2. Wincanton, the UK's largest haulage firm, increasing drivers' pay by 30%; 3. Costa Coffee has raised wages by 5%. More may be to follow; 4. Amazon is offering a £1000 signing on bonus; 5. Pets at Home is doing the same. Bosses have previously been able to keep wages low/reduce wages by importing cheap EU labour. No more. They have to compete to get workers. Stuart Rose, chairman of the Remain campaign in the referendum and a retail employer, WARNED that wages would go up. That was why people voted for Brexit!" Pretty sure people were told there would be no barriers to trade. No red tape. It'd be the easiest deal in history. We held all the cards etc etc etc ... | |||
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"Some Remainers are determined to be unhappy. But consider what the end of the EUs free movement of labour means: 1. Wages rising at the fastest rate in decades; 2. Wincanton, the UK's largest haulage firm, increasing drivers' pay by 30%; 3. Costa Coffee has raised wages by 5%. More may be to follow; 4. Amazon is offering a £1000 signing on bonus; 5. Pets at Home is doing the same. Bosses have previously been able to keep wages low/reduce wages by importing cheap EU labour. No more. They have to compete to get workers. Stuart Rose, chairman of the Remain campaign in the referendum and a retail employer, WARNED that wages would go up. That was why people voted for Brexit! and what about inflation?…… inflation for many people is currently outstripping wage rises. " The inflation that is threatened is due to the idiotic printing of money caused by the banking crisis ( still being paid for) and for the response to coronavirus. Are you trying to argue that the labour-market gains of working people should be cancelled by agreeing to the EU's free movement of labour again? Why? Even former Bank of England governor Mark Carney admitted that the EU's influx of cheap labour forced down domestic labour costs. Are you a banker? | |||
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"Some Remainers are determined to be unhappy. But consider what the end of the EUs free movement of labour means: 1. Wages rising at the fastest rate in decades; 2. Wincanton, the UK's largest haulage firm, increasing drivers' pay by 30%; 3. Costa Coffee has raised wages by 5%. More may be to follow; 4. Amazon is offering a £1000 signing on bonus; 5. Pets at Home is doing the same. Bosses have previously been able to keep wages low/reduce wages by importing cheap EU labour. No more. They have to compete to get workers. Stuart Rose, chairman of the Remain campaign in the referendum and a retail employer, WARNED that wages would go up. That was why people voted for Brexit! Pretty sure people were told there would be no barriers to trade. No red tape. It'd be the easiest deal in history. We held all the cards etc etc etc ..." And yet, working people are doing well aren't they? Shareholders will take a hit. Interesting to see which side Remainers are on! | |||
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"Some Remainers are determined to be unhappy. But consider what the end of the EUs free movement of labour means: 1. Wages rising at the fastest rate in decades; 2. Wincanton, the UK's largest haulage firm, increasing drivers' pay by 30%; 3. Costa Coffee has raised wages by 5%. More may be to follow; 4. Amazon is offering a £1000 signing on bonus; 5. Pets at Home is doing the same. Bosses have previously been able to keep wages low/reduce wages by importing cheap EU labour. No more. They have to compete to get workers. Stuart Rose, chairman of the Remain campaign in the referendum and a retail employer, WARNED that wages would go up. That was why people voted for Brexit! and what about inflation?…… inflation for many people is currently outstripping wage rises. The inflation that is threatened is due to the idiotic printing of money caused by the banking crisis ( still being paid for) and for the response to coronavirus. Are you trying to argue that the labour-market gains of working people should be cancelled by agreeing to the EU's free movement of labour again? Why? Even former Bank of England governor Mark Carney admitted that the EU's influx of cheap labour forced down domestic labour costs. Are you a banker?" Now we have left what I don’t understand is why people are not taking advantage of all those wonderful jobs like picking fruit and vegetables in the fields for? It makes no sense to waste the opportunities presented, there is nothing stopping them, wages are going up, so there should not be a problem right? | |||
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"Some Remainers are determined to be unhappy. But consider what the end of the EUs free movement of labour means: 1. Wages rising at the fastest rate in decades; 2. Wincanton, the UK's largest haulage firm, increasing drivers' pay by 30%; 3. Costa Coffee has raised wages by 5%. More may be to follow; 4. Amazon is offering a £1000 signing on bonus; 5. Pets at Home is doing the same. Bosses have previously been able to keep wages low/reduce wages by importing cheap EU labour. No more. They have to compete to get workers. Stuart Rose, chairman of the Remain campaign in the referendum and a retail employer, WARNED that wages would go up. That was why people voted for Brexit! and what about inflation?…… inflation for many people is currently outstripping wage rises. The inflation that is threatened is due to the idiotic printing of money caused by the banking crisis ( still being paid for) and for the response to coronavirus. Are you trying to argue that the labour-market gains of working people should be cancelled by agreeing to the EU's free movement of labour again? Why? Even former Bank of England governor Mark Carney admitted that the EU's influx of cheap labour forced down domestic labour costs. Are you a banker? Now we have left what I don’t understand is why people are not taking advantage of all those wonderful jobs like picking fruit and vegetables in the fields for? It makes no sense to waste the opportunities presented, there is nothing stopping them, wages are going up, so there should not be a problem right?" Wages will have to go up to the point at which potential workers find them attractive. Given that landowners had previously been used to paying them min wage (if that) and making them sleep in dormitories it is unbecoming of you to make sach an appalling comment. | |||
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"PS still on the jobs front, I'm sure you know after all those pesky Europeans have been seen off, it left a huge gap in the labour market for fruit pickers. So, apparently, we have started importing fruit pickers from up to 6000 miles away to try and fill that hole. I'm sure that's another win for Brexit, the UK working man and the environment. Posted again for you in case you missed it." Appalling that you should oppose such an opportunity to force an increase in wages | |||
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"PS still on the jobs front, I'm sure you know after all those pesky Europeans have been seen off, it left a huge gap in the labour market for fruit pickers. So, apparently, we have started importing fruit pickers from up to 6000 miles away to try and fill that hole. I'm sure that's another win for Brexit, the UK working man and the environment. Posted again for you in case you missed it. Appalling that you should oppose such an opportunity to force an increase in wages" Eh? Why do I feel you miss the point? Employers can and will import cheap labour from further afield. They have already started doing so in this case. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems." Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be?" It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.)" Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? | |||
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"Some Remainers are determined to be unhappy. But consider what the end of the EUs free movement of labour means: 1. Wages rising at the fastest rate in decades; 2. Wincanton, the UK's largest haulage firm, increasing drivers' pay by 30%; 3. Costa Coffee has raised wages by 5%. More may be to follow; 4. Amazon is offering a £1000 signing on bonus; 5. Pets at Home is doing the same. Bosses have previously been able to keep wages low/reduce wages by importing cheap EU labour. No more. They have to compete to get workers. Stuart Rose, chairman of the Remain campaign in the referendum and a retail employer, WARNED that wages would go up. That was why people voted for Brexit!" 1. According to the FT wage growth figures are skewered due to a lot of low paid people still on furlough but small groups of workers wages growing rapidly so it’s showing a false average of 4.5% which is the number Boris keeps quoting. They also say that after new tax increases most most low paid workers may be no better or worse off. Statistical lies spouted yet again from our great leader. 2. The GMB members at Wincanton have received 8% with a further 3% . The 30% increase is for the 90 drivers on the Argos contract in Manchester. Not the 3500 total drivers they employ or employed as it’s less now. Also Wincantons high volume retail work carries non supply penalties which will be horrific. So either pay more and lose a little or lose millions in fines. Wincantons profit centres are warehouses and so they will no doubt be subsidising the drivers. Cost cutting will follow as those dividends have to come from somewhere. 3. Costa like other hospitality can’t find workers. There will be some hospitality businesses that lose out and close due to either not enough or too costly staff. Unless you want to pay £10 for your coffee. 4. Amazon again lost workers and are growing rapidly. For every online job it’s claimed up to two retail are lost so not good in the long term front but it’s progress apparently. Well until high streets are all boarded up! Be a bit shit then and who wants a coffee in a street full of boarded up shops. 5. Again staff shortages and if the pet food gets too expensive Granny will have to snuff out kitty to save her pension. Note - Councils now having to give bin lorry drivers £3-5000 uplifts which is great for the drivers but as no central government help is coming then your council tax will pick up that nice little extra cost. Some wages going up is needed and long overdue I agree but unbalanced supply and demand resulting in dramatic increases is not good and leads to an unstable businesses. If the sales fall due to increased prices due to overheads then cost cutting starts and jobs tend to go shortly after. As for being unhappy I’m always happy but I can afford to smile as I’ve made my money already. It’s the younger generations that will be paying for this mess for decades to come. Not the tax avoiding rich elites children though. They will be fine… and even richer. | |||
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"Some Remainers are determined to be unhappy. But consider what the end of the EUs free movement of labour means: 1. Wages rising at the fastest rate in decades; 2. Wincanton, the UK's largest haulage firm, increasing drivers' pay by 30%; 3. Costa Coffee has raised wages by 5%. More may be to follow; 4. Amazon is offering a £1000 signing on bonus; 5. Pets at Home is doing the same. Bosses have previously been able to keep wages low/reduce wages by importing cheap EU labour. No more. They have to compete to get workers. Stuart Rose, chairman of the Remain campaign in the referendum and a retail employer, WARNED that wages would go up. That was why people voted for Brexit! 1. According to the FT wage growth figures are skewered due to a lot of low paid people still on furlough but small groups of workers wages growing rapidly so it’s showing a false average of 4.5% which is the number Boris keeps quoting. They also say that after new tax increases most most low paid workers may be no better or worse off. Statistical lies spouted yet again from our great leader. 2. The GMB members at Wincanton have received 8% with a further 3% . The 30% increase is for the 90 drivers on the Argos contract in Manchester. Not the 3500 total drivers they employ or employed as it’s less now. Also Wincantons high volume retail work carries non supply penalties which will be horrific. So either pay more and lose a little or lose millions in fines. Wincantons profit centres are warehouses and so they will no doubt be subsidising the drivers. Cost cutting will follow as those dividends have to come from somewhere. 3. Costa like other hospitality can’t find workers. There will be some hospitality businesses that lose out and close due to either not enough or too costly staff. Unless you want to pay £10 for your coffee. 4. Amazon again lost workers and are growing rapidly. For every online job it’s claimed up to two retail are lost so not good in the long term front but it’s progress apparently. Well until high streets are all boarded up! Be a bit shit then and who wants a coffee in a street full of boarded up shops. 5. Again staff shortages and if the pet food gets too expensive Granny will have to snuff out kitty to save her pension. Note - Councils now having to give bin lorry drivers £3-5000 uplifts which is great for the drivers but as no central government help is coming then your council tax will pick up that nice little extra cost. Some wages going up is needed and long overdue I agree but unbalanced supply and demand resulting in dramatic increases is not good and leads to an unstable businesses. If the sales fall due to increased prices due to overheads then cost cutting starts and jobs tend to go shortly after. As for being unhappy I’m always happy but I can afford to smile as I’ve made my money already. It’s the younger generations that will be paying for this mess for decades to come. Not the tax avoiding rich elites children though. They will be fine… and even richer. " So Brexit has forced 11% pay rises. And you're on the side of cheapskate employers. Enormously illuminating Take a good look at yourself | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly?" Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? " You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not?" I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?  | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling? "Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly? I'd stop digging if I was you | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you"Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't? You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield. So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg. (As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.) | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)"You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so Anyone might think you were confused | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused"Pointing out facts is confused? OK. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK. "Do you support a tightening of the labour market? | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly?" So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. " The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?"If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not? The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it. And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
"How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?"Simply pointing out what has literally happened here. You seem determined to ignore that. | |||
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"Some Remainers are determined to be unhappy. But consider what the end of the EUs free movement of labour means: 1. Wages rising at the fastest rate in decades; 2. Wincanton, the UK's largest haulage firm, increasing drivers' pay by 30%; 3. Costa Coffee has raised wages by 5%. More may be to follow; 4. Amazon is offering a £1000 signing on bonus; 5. Pets at Home is doing the same. Bosses have previously been able to keep wages low/reduce wages by importing cheap EU labour. No more. They have to compete to get workers. Stuart Rose, chairman of the Remain campaign in the referendum and a retail employer, WARNED that wages would go up. That was why people voted for Brexit! 1. According to the FT wage growth figures are skewered due to a lot of low paid people still on furlough but small groups of workers wages growing rapidly so it’s showing a false average of 4.5% which is the number Boris keeps quoting. They also say that after new tax increases most most low paid workers may be no better or worse off. Statistical lies spouted yet again from our great leader. 2. The GMB members at Wincanton have received 8% with a further 3% . The 30% increase is for the 90 drivers on the Argos contract in Manchester. Not the 3500 total drivers they employ or employed as it’s less now. Also Wincantons high volume retail work carries non supply penalties which will be horrific. So either pay more and lose a little or lose millions in fines. Wincantons profit centres are warehouses and so they will no doubt be subsidising the drivers. Cost cutting will follow as those dividends have to come from somewhere. 3. Costa like other hospitality can’t find workers. There will be some hospitality businesses that lose out and close due to either not enough or too costly staff. Unless you want to pay £10 for your coffee. 4. Amazon again lost workers and are growing rapidly. For every online job it’s claimed up to two retail are lost so not good in the long term front but it’s progress apparently. Well until high streets are all boarded up! Be a bit shit then and who wants a coffee in a street full of boarded up shops. 5. Again staff shortages and if the pet food gets too expensive Granny will have to snuff out kitty to save her pension. Note - Councils now having to give bin lorry drivers £3-5000 uplifts which is great for the drivers but as no central government help is coming then your council tax will pick up that nice little extra cost. Some wages going up is needed and long overdue I agree but unbalanced supply and demand resulting in dramatic increases is not good and leads to an unstable businesses. If the sales fall due to increased prices due to overheads then cost cutting starts and jobs tend to go shortly after. As for being unhappy I’m always happy but I can afford to smile as I’ve made my money already. It’s the younger generations that will be paying for this mess for decades to come. Not the tax avoiding rich elites children though. They will be fine… and even richer. So Brexit has forced 11% pay rises. And you're on the side of cheapskate employers. Enormously illuminating Take a good look at yourself" Did you read my comment on the rich who’s side I’m now supposedly on?. I’ve employed a lot of people on high wages and a lot of the unskilled on well above average wages so happy with how I look thanks. Yes for a selected few workers wages have increased as the post states so obviously you can read. Drivers are in very short supply but you know that. As for the personal insults then maybe your understanding of economics is based on the 70’s union mantra of pay me more whatever the consequences. It doesn’t work!, Maybe take a look at your understanding of reality of the mess that Brexit has bought. Grasping for a few strands that my mate Dave the truck driver has done alright isn’t a basis for the future economy of the U.K. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question" Strange that Brexit had rich backers then, isn't it? You wouldn't expect them to want better pay for the many workers under them... | |||
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"How does a labour market increase wages? It's due to supply and demand. The role of unions is to restrict supply. Yet you want to increase supply. How else are people to understand you? Do you want to increase supply of labour?" Yet again, you're simply misrepresenting me. I literally pointed out facts. Multiple times. You're picking a fight with reality. | |||
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"Some Remainers are determined to be unhappy. But consider what the end of the EUs free movement of labour means: 1. Wages rising at the fastest rate in decades; 2. Wincanton, the UK's largest haulage firm, increasing drivers' pay by 30%; 3. Costa Coffee has raised wages by 5%. More may be to follow; 4. Amazon is offering a £1000 signing on bonus; 5. Pets at Home is doing the same. Bosses have previously been able to keep wages low/reduce wages by importing cheap EU labour. No more. They have to compete to get workers. Stuart Rose, chairman of the Remain campaign in the referendum and a retail employer, WARNED that wages would go up. That was why people voted for Brexit! 1. According to the FT wage growth figures are skewered due to a lot of low paid people still on furlough but small groups of workers wages growing rapidly so it’s showing a false average of 4.5% which is the number Boris keeps quoting. They also say that after new tax increases most most low paid workers may be no better or worse off. Statistical lies spouted yet again from our great leader. 2. The GMB members at Wincanton have received 8% with a further 3% . The 30% increase is for the 90 drivers on the Argos contract in Manchester. Not the 3500 total drivers they employ or employed as it’s less now. Also Wincantons high volume retail work carries non supply penalties which will be horrific. So either pay more and lose a little or lose millions in fines. Wincantons profit centres are warehouses and so they will no doubt be subsidising the drivers. Cost cutting will follow as those dividends have to come from somewhere. 3. Costa like other hospitality can’t find workers. There will be some hospitality businesses that lose out and close due to either not enough or too costly staff. Unless you want to pay £10 for your coffee. 4. Amazon again lost workers and are growing rapidly. For every online job it’s claimed up to two retail are lost so not good in the long term front but it’s progress apparently. Well until high streets are all boarded up! Be a bit shit then and who wants a coffee in a street full of boarded up shops. 5. Again staff shortages and if the pet food gets too expensive Granny will have to snuff out kitty to save her pension. Note - Councils now having to give bin lorry drivers £3-5000 uplifts which is great for the drivers but as no central government help is coming then your council tax will pick up that nice little extra cost. Some wages going up is needed and long overdue I agree but unbalanced supply and demand resulting in dramatic increases is not good and leads to an unstable businesses. If the sales fall due to increased prices due to overheads then cost cutting starts and jobs tend to go shortly after. As for being unhappy I’m always happy but I can afford to smile as I’ve made my money already. It’s the younger generations that will be paying for this mess for decades to come. Not the tax avoiding rich elites children though. They will be fine… and even richer. So Brexit has forced 11% pay rises. And you're on the side of cheapskate employers. Enormously illuminating Take a good look at yourself Did you read my comment on the rich who’s side I’m now supposedly on?. I’ve employed a lot of people on high wages and a lot of the unskilled on well above average wages so happy with how I look thanks. Yes for a selected few workers wages have increased as the post states so obviously you can read. Drivers are in very short supply but you know that. As for the personal insults then maybe your understanding of economics is based on the 70’s union mantra of pay me more whatever the consequences. It doesn’t work!, Maybe take a look at your understanding of reality of the mess that Brexit has bought. Grasping for a few strands that my mate Dave the truck driver has done alright isn’t a basis for the future economy of the U.K. " You want to increase supply of labour. You are on the side of the employers who gain from cheap labour. Why? | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question Strange that Brexit had rich backers then, isn't it? You wouldn't expect them to want better pay for the many workers under them..." The wealthy were on the side of Remain. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question Strange that Brexit had rich backers then, isn't it? You wouldn't expect them to want better pay for the many workers under them... The wealthy were on the side of Remain. " "Brexit campaign was largely funded by five of UK's richest businessmen The five contributed £15m out of a total £24.1m given to Leave campaigns in the five months before the referendum" Reality again. But I'm sure you don't care about that. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question Strange that Brexit had rich backers then, isn't it? You wouldn't expect them to want better pay for the many workers under them... The wealthy were on the side of Remain. " Are you suggesting the Brexit campaign didn't have some extremely wealthy backers? I suggest you do some research on the subject | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question" Simple answer no it hasn’t as the increases would have to be enormous to have an impact. Estimated increase in the richest 5% of U.K. is 20% during the last two years. The increase in general workers doesn’t scratch the surface. A basic mid size CEO on half a million basic gets an increase on or above inflation along with increased pension contributions, oh and a bonus . Drivers and waitresses are getting a few pounds an hour increases not hundreds, it’s why the gap does need addressing as its getting bigger all the time. 3% of £40k or 3% of £500k you chose which is best. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question Strange that Brexit had rich backers then, isn't it? You wouldn't expect them to want better pay for the many workers under them... The wealthy were on the side of Remain. "Brexit campaign was largely funded by five of UK's richest businessmen The five contributed £15m out of a total £24.1m given to Leave campaigns in the five months before the referendum" Reality again. But I'm sure you don't care about that." How much money have the wealthy given to Remainers? You know that the CBI backed Remain? Goldman Sachs? George Soros spent £62m to reverse Brexit. Richard Branson? Who funded Miller? They did it because they profited from cheap labour | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question Simple answer no it hasn’t as the increases would have to be enormous to have an impact. Estimated increase in the richest 5% of U.K. is 20% during the last two years. The increase in general workers doesn’t scratch the surface. A basic mid size CEO on half a million basic gets an increase on or above inflation along with increased pension contributions, oh and a bonus . Drivers and waitresses are getting a few pounds an hour increases not hundreds, it’s why the gap does need addressing as its getting bigger all the time. 3% of £40k or 3% of £500k you chose which is best. " You're a lackey of the employers | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question Strange that Brexit had rich backers then, isn't it? You wouldn't expect them to want better pay for the many workers under them... The wealthy were on the side of Remain. "Brexit campaign was largely funded by five of UK's richest businessmen The five contributed £15m out of a total £24.1m given to Leave campaigns in the five months before the referendum" Reality again. But I'm sure you don't care about that. How much money have the wealthy given to Remainers? You know that the CBI backed Remain? Goldman Sachs? George Soros spent £62m to reverse Brexit. Richard Branson? Who funded Miller? They did it because they profited from cheap labour" Gosh, he spent 62 million to reverse Brexit? That must be big news... Then why can't I find that erported anywhere? Strange... | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question Simple answer no it hasn’t as the increases would have to be enormous to have an impact. Estimated increase in the richest 5% of U.K. is 20% during the last two years. The increase in general workers doesn’t scratch the surface. A basic mid size CEO on half a million basic gets an increase on or above inflation along with increased pension contributions, oh and a bonus . Drivers and waitresses are getting a few pounds an hour increases not hundreds, it’s why the gap does need addressing as its getting bigger all the time. 3% of £40k or 3% of £500k you chose which is best. You're a lackey of the employers" Pesky lackey with their pesky facts and reality, eh? | |||
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"So you don't support a tightening of the labour market which benefits workers against the bosses. Take a good look at yourself" I certainly do feel terrible for telling you literal facts about fruit and veg pickers. | |||
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"What is your reality? That a loosening of the labour market helps workers? While you moan, Brexiteers are winning pay rises for the working class. And you oppose that." My reality is the facts I pointed out to you. It's hardly my fault you seemed to get angry with facts and pick a fight with them. Anyway, this is about the M&S thing. Back on topic, if possible. There must have been plenty of workers in those branches. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question Strange that Brexit had rich backers then, isn't it? You wouldn't expect them to want better pay for the many workers under them... The wealthy were on the side of Remain. Are you suggesting the Brexit campaign didn't have some extremely wealthy backers? I suggest you do some research on the subject" It did but it didn’t control the media such as the Daily mail, the express, the sun, sky, the bbc was supposed to be independent but Boris gagged it. Look who’s now culture minister and see where that’s going. Tax avoidance by individuals and corporations was a target of the EU over the next ten years. The leave backers are well renowned for avoiding tax so that was the driver. Immigration and taking back some imaginary control was spouted to the masses but the real reason was tax avoidance and the hundreds of billions of untaxed wealth flowing through London every year. Look up where 65% of global tax avoidance is managed . It’s London. The G7 exemption to their crackdown is financial companies. They do the most avoidance for their clients so what’s the point of the G7 statement. Big money controls our country and the message from Downing street. | |||
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"Adrian are you also happy about 11 branches of M&S closing due to Brexit? That was the topic of this thread, once upon a time." Not happy about MandS. Bit they have been retrenching for years. Look at the bigger picture. You may recall who Stuart Rosevwas boss of? | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question Strange that Brexit had rich backers then, isn't it? You wouldn't expect them to want better pay for the many workers under them... The wealthy were on the side of Remain. Are you suggesting the Brexit campaign didn't have some extremely wealthy backers? I suggest you do some research on the subject It did but it didn’t control the media such as the Daily mail, the express, the sun, sky, the bbc was supposed to be independent but Boris gagged it. Look who’s now culture minister and see where that’s going. Tax avoidance by individuals and corporations was a target of the EU over the next ten years. The leave backers are well renowned for avoiding tax so that was the driver. Immigration and taking back some imaginary control was spouted to the masses but the real reason was tax avoidance and the hundreds of billions of untaxed wealth flowing through London every year. Look up where 65% of global tax avoidance is managed . It’s London. The G7 exemption to their crackdown is financial companies. They do the most avoidance for their clients so what’s the point of the G7 statement. Big money controls our country and the message from Downing street. " The biggest tax Dodgers are multinationals who support the EU | |||
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"Adrian are you also happy about 11 branches of M&S closing due to Brexit? That was the topic of this thread, once upon a time. Not happy about MandS. Bit they have been retrenching for years. Look at the bigger picture. You may recall who Stuart Rosevwas boss of?" retrenching? | |||
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"Adrian are you also happy about 11 branches of M&S closing due to Brexit? That was the topic of this thread, once upon a time. Not happy about MandS. Bit they have been retrenching for years. Look at the bigger picture. You may recall who Stuart Rosevwas boss of? retrenching? " You know MandS expanded into France in the 90s/early 00s believing France wanted the UK retail experience? They were wrong so now that are retrenching (their phrase!). A foolish business experience, promoted by Remain idiot Stuart Rose | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question Simple answer no it hasn’t as the increases would have to be enormous to have an impact. Estimated increase in the richest 5% of U.K. is 20% during the last two years. The increase in general workers doesn’t scratch the surface. A basic mid size CEO on half a million basic gets an increase on or above inflation along with increased pension contributions, oh and a bonus . Drivers and waitresses are getting a few pounds an hour increases not hundreds, it’s why the gap does need addressing as its getting bigger all the time. 3% of £40k or 3% of £500k you chose which is best. You're a lackey of the employers" Resulting again to insults because your argument is proven wrong. Really? Pathetic. Goodnight. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question Simple answer no it hasn’t as the increases would have to be enormous to have an impact. Estimated increase in the richest 5% of U.K. is 20% during the last two years. The increase in general workers doesn’t scratch the surface. A basic mid size CEO on half a million basic gets an increase on or above inflation along with increased pension contributions, oh and a bonus . Drivers and waitresses are getting a few pounds an hour increases not hundreds, it’s why the gap does need addressing as its getting bigger all the time. 3% of £40k or 3% of £500k you chose which is best. You're a lackey of the employers Resulting again to insults because your argument is proven wrong. Really? Pathetic. Goodnight. " In what way was my argument wrong? You support loosening of the labour market which leads to lower wages. I understand if you can't explain that. Good night | |||
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"And what's the bigger picture for all the workers in the fishing industry who have been fucked by Brexit? What about the small businesses that can no longer afford to trade with Europe due to Brexit? What about the 7000 jobs lost in financial services? It goes on and on like that." And yet our economic growth is stronger than in the EU. It might have been easier if Rrmainer MPs hadn't hijacked the Commons to entrap us in a poor deal. Perhaps you might explain May's 'deal' | |||
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"And what's the bigger picture for all the workers in the fishing industry who have been fucked by Brexit? What about the small businesses that can no longer afford to trade with Europe due to Brexit? What about the 7000 jobs lost in financial services? It goes on and on like that. And yet our economic growth is stronger than in the EU. It might have been easier if Rrmainer MPs hadn't hijacked the Commons to entrap us in a poor deal. Perhaps you might explain May's 'deal'" I'll save you some time. Look up the Digby Jones index. It collects job losses due to Brexit. There are hundreds of recorded and sourced examples. Feel free to read through them all and try and continue denying reality. | |||
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"And what's the bigger picture for all the workers in the fishing industry who have been fucked by Brexit? What about the small businesses that can no longer afford to trade with Europe due to Brexit? What about the 7000 jobs lost in financial services? It goes on and on like that. And yet our economic growth is stronger than in the EU. It might have been easier if Rrmainer MPs hadn't hijacked the Commons to entrap us in a poor deal. Perhaps you might explain May's 'deal' I'll save you some time. Look up the Digby Jones index. It collects job losses due to Brexit. There are hundreds of recorded and sourced examples. Feel free to read through them all and try and continue denying reality." You need to accept reality. For every job loss there have been four gains. Why are you so hostile to the interests of working people? Why not examine the role of Remainers in the 'deal' negotiated? | |||
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"And what's the bigger picture for all the workers in the fishing industry who have been fucked by Brexit? What about the small businesses that can no longer afford to trade with Europe due to Brexit? What about the 7000 jobs lost in financial services? It goes on and on like that. And yet our economic growth is stronger than in the EU. It might have been easier if Rrmainer MPs hadn't hijacked the Commons to entrap us in a poor deal. Perhaps you might explain May's 'deal' I'll save you some time. Look up the Digby Jones index. It collects job losses due to Brexit. There are hundreds of recorded and sourced examples. Feel free to read through them all and try and continue denying reality. You need to accept reality. For every job loss there have been four gains. Why are you so hostile to the interests of working people? Why not examine the role of Remainers in the 'deal' negotiated?" There are 262 stories in that index about jobs losses due to Brexit. There will be more and more as time goes on. Can you produce a list that's four times that size of stories about jobs gained via Brexit? | |||
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"And what's the bigger picture for all the workers in the fishing industry who have been fucked by Brexit? What about the small businesses that can no longer afford to trade with Europe due to Brexit? What about the 7000 jobs lost in financial services? It goes on and on like that. And yet our economic growth is stronger than in the EU. It might have been easier if Rrmainer MPs hadn't hijacked the Commons to entrap us in a poor deal. Perhaps you might explain May's 'deal' I'll save you some time. Look up the Digby Jones index. It collects job losses due to Brexit. There are hundreds of recorded and sourced examples. Feel free to read through them all and try and continue denying reality. You need to accept reality. For every job loss there have been four gains. Why are you so hostile to the interests of working people? Why not examine the role of Remainers in the 'deal' negotiated? There are 262 stories in that index about jobs losses due to Brexit. There will be more and more as time goes on. Can you produce a list that's four times that size of stories about jobs gained via Brexit?" What index is that? | |||
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"Read above. I told you what the index is. Have fun reading it all. Nighty night." Ha ha ha. Dream of exploitative employers, my friend | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? So to keep an economy growing you need to fill the increase in vacancies which the eu workers did. U.K. native population is ageing. UK based workers don’t want the jobs or can’t do the jobs. Or maybe they want a £100 an hour for picking fruit that no one will buy as it’s too expensive. So where does the labour come from to do these jobs in your opinion? Btw no one will build houses for workers who are seasonal. It’s too expensive and seasonal workers move on to other jobs. So they don’t buy houses in that area. If you’re well educated and or done an apprenticeship then you can expect higher wages for your skills. If you can only offer labour then you will always earn less thats a reality even the unions accept. I personally would lift carers above that argument but that’s a personal thought on a tough but caring job. There will always be higher and lower paid jobs along with easier and harder jobs. The balance is out of skew I believe as CEOs and top management earn far too much in some cases while the lower workers earn too little. It’s not about cheap labour it’s about levelling up inside our monster businesses. Btw the deal with India that Liz Truss was working on allows for easier access to the U.K. for Indian workers and they will work for minimum wage on a lot more skilled jobs than fruit picking. Look at the engineers flooding into the middle east to undercut western workers. India has a large well educated supply of skilled workers hungry to earn more than they do at home. Out of the frying pan as the saying goes. The gap between what CEOs and ordinary workers earn has narrowed since Brexit due to a tightening labour market. A good thing, yes? A simple question Strange that Brexit had rich backers then, isn't it? You wouldn't expect them to want better pay for the many workers under them... The wealthy were on the side of Remain. "Brexit campaign was largely funded by five of UK's richest businessmen The five contributed £15m out of a total £24.1m given to Leave campaigns in the five months before the referendum" Reality again. But I'm sure you don't care about that. How much money have the wealthy given to Remainers? You know that the CBI backed Remain? Goldman Sachs? George Soros spent £62m to reverse Brexit. Richard Branson? Who funded Miller? They did it because they profited from cheap labour Gosh, he spent 62 million to reverse Brexit? That must be big news... Then why can't I find that erported anywhere? Strange..." Check OSF annual accounts. How low has the 'left' sunk? | |||
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"PS still on the jobs front, I'm sure you know after all those pesky Europeans have been seen off, it left a huge gap in the labour market for fruit pickers. So, apparently, we have started importing fruit pickers from up to 6000 miles away to try and fill that hole. I'm sure that's another win for Brexit, the UK working man and the environment. Posted again for you in case you missed it. Appalling that you should oppose such an opportunity to force an increase in wages Eh? Why do I feel you miss the point? Employers can and will import cheap labour from further afield. They have already started doing so in this case. " The eu workers have the same rights to temporary work in the uk as anyone else but now they have to apply for a visa and have a job to come to.The visa for eu workers is £55 cheaper. As for cheaper labour the uk has a minimum wage and any employer breaking that is breaking the law. Your argument does not stand up apart from the fact they cant just rock up and have a wander around looking for a job. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?"No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done. "Exactly what the gov did on April 1st this year. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done. Exactly what the gov did on April 1st this year. "Yep, and they can do it again, that way everyone benefits , not just a few truck drivers , | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done. Exactly what the gov did on April 1st this year.
Yep, and they can do it again, that way everyone benefits , not just a few truck drivers , "And im sure they will next april. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done. Exactly what the gov did on April 1st this year.
Yep, and they can do it again, that way everyone benefits , not just a few truck drivers , And im sure they will next april."Yep, there is obviously no need to create a shortfall in certain areas of the job market to increase wages , | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done. Exactly what the gov did on April 1st this year.
Yep, and they can do it again, that way everyone benefits , not just a few truck drivers , And im sure they will next april.
Yep, there is obviously no need to create a shortfall in certain areas of the job market to increase wages , "Supply and demand mate the secret to success is to be in demand. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done. Exactly what the gov did on April 1st this year.
Yep, and they can do it again, that way everyone benefits , not just a few truck drivers , And im sure they will next april.
Yep, there is obviously no need to create a shortfall in certain areas of the job market to increase wages , Supply and demand mate the secret to success is to be in demand. "The secret of success is to have good supply  | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done. Exactly what the gov did on April 1st this year.
Yep, and they can do it again, that way everyone benefits , not just a few truck drivers , And im sure they will next april.
Yep, there is obviously no need to create a shortfall in certain areas of the job market to increase wages , Supply and demand mate the secret to success is to be in demand.
The secret of success is to have good supply "The EU guaranteed an over-supply of labour which reduces wages. That was a design feature, not a design flaw. It unbalanced labour markets in favour of bad employers for decades. The markets are being rebalanced now and workers are benefiting. Remainers hate to see wage rises which is extremely revealing | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done. "
So you flood the labour market to force pay down and then attempt to counter it by legislation? What on earth is the point? | |||
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"Some Remainers are determined to be unhappy. But consider what the end of the EUs free movement of labour means: 1. Wages rising at the fastest rate in decades; 2. Wincanton, the UK's largest haulage firm, increasing drivers' pay by 30%; 3. Costa Coffee has raised wages by 5%. More may be to follow; 4. Amazon is offering a £1000 signing on bonus; 5. Pets at Home is doing the same. Bosses have previously been able to keep wages low/reduce wages by importing cheap EU labour. No more. They have to compete to get workers. Stuart Rose, chairman of the Remain campaign in the referendum and a retail employer, WARNED that wages would go up. That was why people voted for Brexit! and what about inflation?…… inflation for many people is currently outstripping wage rises. The inflation that is threatened is due to the idiotic printing of money caused by the banking crisis ( still being paid for) and for the response to coronavirus. Are you trying to argue that the labour-market gains of working people should be cancelled by agreeing to the EU's free movement of labour again? Why? Even former Bank of England governor Mark Carney admitted that the EU's influx of cheap labour forced down domestic labour costs. Are you a banker?" why are you asking me questions which don’t relate to my point? I am not seeking to justify anything - i was pointing out that your comments were naive and don’t reflect the full picture - you should take into account that inflation is rising for many more than wage rises - rather than trying to imply we are all better off - that is all. | |||
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"Some Remainers are determined to be unhappy. But consider what the end of the EUs free movement of labour means: 1. Wages rising at the fastest rate in decades; 2. Wincanton, the UK's largest haulage firm, increasing drivers' pay by 30%; 3. Costa Coffee has raised wages by 5%. More may be to follow; 4. Amazon is offering a £1000 signing on bonus; 5. Pets at Home is doing the same. Bosses have previously been able to keep wages low/reduce wages by importing cheap EU labour. No more. They have to compete to get workers. Stuart Rose, chairman of the Remain campaign in the referendum and a retail employer, WARNED that wages would go up. That was why people voted for Brexit! and what about inflation?…… inflation for many people is currently outstripping wage rises. The inflation that is threatened is due to the idiotic printing of money caused by the banking crisis ( still being paid for) and for the response to coronavirus. Are you trying to argue that the labour-market gains of working people should be cancelled by agreeing to the EU's free movement of labour again? Why? Even former Bank of England governor Mark Carney admitted that the EU's influx of cheap labour forced down domestic labour costs. Are you a banker? why are you asking me questions which don’t relate to my point? I am not seeking to justify anything - i was pointing out that your comments were naive and don’t reflect the full picture - you should take into account that inflation is rising for many more than wage rises - rather than trying to imply we are all better off - that is all. " But the sections of the working population that were most severely depressed by the EU are precisely the same as those who are benefiting most now. At least I don't support rubbish employers as Remainers do. Good to see that people are getting justice at last. How revealing that you find that 'naive'. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done.
So you flood the labour market to force pay down and then attempt to counter it by legislation? What on earth is the point?"Why are you against wage rises for all of the lower paid? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done.
So you flood the labour market to force pay down and then attempt to counter it by legislation? What on earth is the point?
Why are you against wage rises for all of the lower paid? "You don't make a nation wealthy by legislation. You only make wealth by letting markets function, allowing pricing mechanisms to work, getting unemployment down and liberalising the economy. That gets wages rising in a lasting way. A min wage is a way for politicians to avoid doing what needs doing...and that is damaging to all workers Look at it another way: if a min wage makes people wealthier, why not raise it to £50 an hour? We'd all be loaded  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done.
So you flood the labour market to force pay down and then attempt to counter it by legislation? What on earth is the point?
Why are you against wage rises for all of the lower paid?
You don't make a nation wealthy by legislation. You only make wealth by letting markets function, allowing pricing mechanisms to work, getting unemployment down and liberalising the economy.
That gets wages rising in a lasting way. A min wage is a way for politicians to avoid doing what needs doing...and that is damaging to all workers
Look at it another way: if a min wage makes people wealthier, why not raise it to £50 an hour? We'd all be loaded "No, it benefits the lower paid, hence the name ‘minimum wage’ why are you against all the lower paid get a decent pay rise? You seem to be siding with the employers not the low paid employees | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done.
So you flood the labour market to force pay down and then attempt to counter it by legislation? What on earth is the point?
Why are you against wage rises for all of the lower paid?
You don't make a nation wealthy by legislation. You only make wealth by letting markets function, allowing pricing mechanisms to work, getting unemployment down and liberalising the economy.
That gets wages rising in a lasting way. A min wage is a way for politicians to avoid doing what needs doing...and that is damaging to all workers
Look at it another way: if a min wage makes people wealthier, why not raise it to £50 an hour? We'd all be loaded
No, it benefits the lower paid, hence the name ‘minimum wage’ why are you against all the lower paid get a decent pay rise? You seem to be siding with the employers not the low paid employees "A min wage is a very poor way to increase wages...far better and more sustainable to let labour markets function without the undercutting that the EU brought. Why would workers ever learn new skills if the min wage meant they wouldn't get better pay? And why support flooding labour markets in the first place if you then have to correct your error by legislation? What is your reason for this? | |||
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| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done.
So you flood the labour market to force pay down and then attempt to counter it by legislation? What on earth is the point?
Why are you against wage rises for all of the lower paid?
You don't make a nation wealthy by legislation. You only make wealth by letting markets function, allowing pricing mechanisms to work, getting unemployment down and liberalising the economy.
That gets wages rising in a lasting way. A min wage is a way for politicians to avoid doing what needs doing...and that is damaging to all workers
Look at it another way: if a min wage makes people wealthier, why not raise it to £50 an hour? We'd all be loaded
No, it benefits the lower paid, hence the name ‘minimum wage’ why are you against all the lower paid get a decent pay rise? You seem to be siding with the employers not the low paid employees
A min wage is a very poor way to increase wages...far better and more sustainable to let labour markets function without the undercutting that the EU brought.
Why would workers ever learn new skills if the min wage meant they wouldn't get better pay?
And why support flooding labour markets in the first place if you then have to correct your error by legislation?
What is your reason for this?"So you only want truck drivers to get an increased wage?are you suggesting these ‘low skilled ‘ workers should work for a pittance to keep them ‘keen’? What is to stop truck drivers from now being lazy and incompetent because basically they are in such high demand and well paid they don’t need to learn ‘new skills ‘ or work hard? | |||
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"Why not raise the min wage to £100 per hour?" Because it’s based on the cost of living , | |||
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"Why not raise the min wage to £100 per hour? Because it’s based on the cost of living , "But if it's the answer to economic problems, why not raise it above the cost of living? Why not £100 per hour? By your reasoning that would make people wealthier. So why not do it? | |||
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"Why not raise the min wage to £100 per hour? Because it’s based on the cost of living ,
But if it's the answer to economic problems, why not raise it above the cost of living? Why not £100 per hour?
By your reasoning that would make people wealthier. So why not do it?"Because it’s based on the cost of living, it really is that simple | |||
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"You have a low opinion of working people.. and no idea how pay rates are set. Why not endeavour to take part in pay talks some time? Unions work by restricting labour supply which forces wages up. Yet the EU undermined that. Almost all low-paid workers are now gaining from Brexit...and that will continue as the months and years pass" No there not, btw, why are you so against the lowest paid people getting a increase in the minimum wage? | |||
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"You have a low opinion of working people.. and no idea how pay rates are set. Why not endeavour to take part in pay talks some time? Unions work by restricting labour supply which forces wages up. Yet the EU undermined that. Almost all low-paid workers are now gaining from Brexit...and that will continue as the months and years pass No there not, btw, why are you so against the lowest paid people getting a increase in the minimum wage? " It's a very poor way to do so. Far better to liberalise markets, get pricing mechanisms working properly, let supply and demand work by preventing the deliberate and malicious flooding of labour markets. That is what is happening now. The bosses hate it. Very revealing that you hate it too. Look at the economies in the developing countries (and others). They are working hard to develop new products, win new markets, get quality right, get prices right. So they can become wealthier nations. Why don't you write to them and tell them they've got it all wrong? Why not tell them they should simply increase the nun wage? I bet they'd never thought of that!
Get writing | |||
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"You have a low opinion of working people.. and no idea how pay rates are set. Why not endeavour to take part in pay talks some time? Unions work by restricting labour supply which forces wages up. Yet the EU undermined that. Almost all low-paid workers are now gaining from Brexit...and that will continue as the months and years pass No there not, btw, why are you so against the lowest paid people getting a increase in the minimum wage? It's a very poor way to do so. Far better to liberalise markets, get pricing mechanisms working properly, let supply and demand work by preventing the deliberate and malicious flooding of labour markets. That is what is happening now. The bosses hate it. Very revealing that you hate it too. Look at the economies in the developing countries (and others). They are working hard to develop new products, win new markets, get quality right, get prices right. So they can become wealthier nations. Why don't you write to them and tell them they've got it all wrong? Why not tell them they should simply increase the nun wage? I bet they'd never thought of that!
Get writing "We aren’t a ‘developing ‘ country, so that’s irrelevant | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done.
So you flood the labour market to force pay down and then attempt to counter it by legislation? What on earth is the point?
Why are you against wage rises for all of the lower paid?
You don't make a nation wealthy by legislation. You only make wealth by letting markets function, allowing pricing mechanisms to work, getting unemployment down and liberalising the economy.
That gets wages rising in a lasting way. A min wage is a way for politicians to avoid doing what needs doing...and that is damaging to all workers
Look at it another way: if a min wage makes people wealthier, why not raise it to £50 an hour? We'd all be loaded
No, it benefits the lower paid, hence the name ‘minimum wage’ why are you against all the lower paid get a decent pay rise? You seem to be siding with the employers not the low paid employees
A min wage is a very poor way to increase wages...far better and more sustainable to let labour markets function without the undercutting that the EU brought.
Why would workers ever learn new skills if the min wage meant they wouldn't get better pay?
And why support flooding labour markets in the first place if you then have to correct your error by legislation?
What is your reason for this?
So you only want truck drivers to get an increased wage?are you suggesting these ‘low skilled ‘ workers should work for a pittance to keep them ‘keen’? What is to stop truck drivers from now being lazy and incompetent because basically they are in such high demand and well paid they don’t need to learn ‘new skills ‘ or work hard? "A very strange view to think people get lazy and incompetent because they earn a good living in my personal experience people work harder the more they earn. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done.
So you flood the labour market to force pay down and then attempt to counter it by legislation? What on earth is the point?
Why are you against wage rises for all of the lower paid?
You don't make a nation wealthy by legislation. You only make wealth by letting markets function, allowing pricing mechanisms to work, getting unemployment down and liberalising the economy.
That gets wages rising in a lasting way. A min wage is a way for politicians to avoid doing what needs doing...and that is damaging to all workers
Look at it another way: if a min wage makes people wealthier, why not raise it to £50 an hour? We'd all be loaded
No, it benefits the lower paid, hence the name ‘minimum wage’ why are you against all the lower paid get a decent pay rise? You seem to be siding with the employers not the low paid employees
A min wage is a very poor way to increase wages...far better and more sustainable to let labour markets function without the undercutting that the EU brought.
Why would workers ever learn new skills if the min wage meant they wouldn't get better pay?
And why support flooding labour markets in the first place if you then have to correct your error by legislation?
What is your reason for this?
So you only want truck drivers to get an increased wage?are you suggesting these ‘low skilled ‘ workers should work for a pittance to keep them ‘keen’? What is to stop truck drivers from now being lazy and incompetent because basically they are in such high demand and well paid they don’t need to learn ‘new skills ‘ or work hard? A very strange view to think people get lazy and incompetent because they earn a good living in my personal experience people work harder the more they earn."I agree, and that is my point, increase the minimum wage and the lowest paid will work harder as apposed to ‘why would workers even learn new skills ‘ | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done.
So you flood the labour market to force pay down and then attempt to counter it by legislation? What on earth is the point?
Why are you against wage rises for all of the lower paid?
You don't make a nation wealthy by legislation. You only make wealth by letting markets function, allowing pricing mechanisms to work, getting unemployment down and liberalising the economy.
That gets wages rising in a lasting way. A min wage is a way for politicians to avoid doing what needs doing...and that is damaging to all workers
Look at it another way: if a min wage makes people wealthier, why not raise it to £50 an hour? We'd all be loaded
No, it benefits the lower paid, hence the name ‘minimum wage’ why are you against all the lower paid get a decent pay rise? You seem to be siding with the employers not the low paid employees
A min wage is a very poor way to increase wages...far better and more sustainable to let labour markets function without the undercutting that the EU brought.
Why would workers ever learn new skills if the min wage meant they wouldn't get better pay?
And why support flooding labour markets in the first place if you then have to correct your error by legislation?
What is your reason for this?
So you only want truck drivers to get an increased wage?are you suggesting these ‘low skilled ‘ workers should work for a pittance to keep them ‘keen’? What is to stop truck drivers from now being lazy and incompetent because basically they are in such high demand and well paid they don’t need to learn ‘new skills ‘ or work hard? A very strange view to think people get lazy and incompetent because they earn a good living in my personal experience people work harder the more they earn.
I agree, and that is my point, increase the minimum wage and the lowest paid will work harder as apposed to ‘why would workers even learn new skills ‘ "Then you would have to increase all wages to maintain the reason to learn new skills. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done.
So you flood the labour market to force pay down and then attempt to counter it by legislation? What on earth is the point?
Why are you against wage rises for all of the lower paid?
You don't make a nation wealthy by legislation. You only make wealth by letting markets function, allowing pricing mechanisms to work, getting unemployment down and liberalising the economy.
That gets wages rising in a lasting way. A min wage is a way for politicians to avoid doing what needs doing...and that is damaging to all workers
Look at it another way: if a min wage makes people wealthier, why not raise it to £50 an hour? We'd all be loaded
No, it benefits the lower paid, hence the name ‘minimum wage’ why are you against all the lower paid get a decent pay rise? You seem to be siding with the employers not the low paid employees
A min wage is a very poor way to increase wages...far better and more sustainable to let labour markets function without the undercutting that the EU brought.
Why would workers ever learn new skills if the min wage meant they wouldn't get better pay?
And why support flooding labour markets in the first place if you then have to correct your error by legislation?
What is your reason for this?
So you only want truck drivers to get an increased wage?are you suggesting these ‘low skilled ‘ workers should work for a pittance to keep them ‘keen’? What is to stop truck drivers from now being lazy and incompetent because basically they are in such high demand and well paid they don’t need to learn ‘new skills ‘ or work hard? A very strange view to think people get lazy and incompetent because they earn a good living in my personal experience people work harder the more they earn.
I agree, and that is my point, increase the minimum wage and the lowest paid will work harder as apposed to ‘why would workers even learn new skills ‘ Then you would have to increase all wages to maintain the reason to learn new skills."Why? Do people only learn new skills for money? Would you rather be a cleaner (nothing wrong with cleavers on £12 an hour ) or say a car designer on £20 an hour, some jobs are more desirable than others regardless of pay | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done.
So you flood the labour market to force pay down and then attempt to counter it by legislation? What on earth is the point?
Why are you against wage rises for all of the lower paid?
You don't make a nation wealthy by legislation. You only make wealth by letting markets function, allowing pricing mechanisms to work, getting unemployment down and liberalising the economy.
That gets wages rising in a lasting way. A min wage is a way for politicians to avoid doing what needs doing...and that is damaging to all workers
Look at it another way: if a min wage makes people wealthier, why not raise it to £50 an hour? We'd all be loaded
No, it benefits the lower paid, hence the name ‘minimum wage’ why are you against all the lower paid get a decent pay rise? You seem to be siding with the employers not the low paid employees
A min wage is a very poor way to increase wages...far better and more sustainable to let labour markets function without the undercutting that the EU brought.
Why would workers ever learn new skills if the min wage meant they wouldn't get better pay?
And why support flooding labour markets in the first place if you then have to correct your error by legislation?
What is your reason for this?
So you only want truck drivers to get an increased wage?are you suggesting these ‘low skilled ‘ workers should work for a pittance to keep them ‘keen’? What is to stop truck drivers from now being lazy and incompetent because basically they are in such high demand and well paid they don’t need to learn ‘new skills ‘ or work hard? A very strange view to think people get lazy and incompetent because they earn a good living in my personal experience people work harder the more they earn.
I agree, and that is my point, increase the minimum wage and the lowest paid will work harder as apposed to ‘why would workers even learn new skills ‘ Then you would have to increase all wages to maintain the reason to learn new skills.
Why? Do people only learn new skills for money? Would you rather be a cleaner (nothing wrong with cleavers on £12 an hour ) or say a car designer on £20 an hour, some jobs are more desirable than others regardless of pay "Because thats what the majority of people go to work for "money" i dont know any people who go just for fun do you? | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done.
So you flood the labour market to force pay down and then attempt to counter it by legislation? What on earth is the point?
Why are you against wage rises for all of the lower paid?
You don't make a nation wealthy by legislation. You only make wealth by letting markets function, allowing pricing mechanisms to work, getting unemployment down and liberalising the economy.
That gets wages rising in a lasting way. A min wage is a way for politicians to avoid doing what needs doing...and that is damaging to all workers
Look at it another way: if a min wage makes people wealthier, why not raise it to £50 an hour? We'd all be loaded
No, it benefits the lower paid, hence the name ‘minimum wage’ why are you against all the lower paid get a decent pay rise? You seem to be siding with the employers not the low paid employees
A min wage is a very poor way to increase wages...far better and more sustainable to let labour markets function without the undercutting that the EU brought.
Why would workers ever learn new skills if the min wage meant they wouldn't get better pay?
And why support flooding labour markets in the first place if you then have to correct your error by legislation?
What is your reason for this?
So you only want truck drivers to get an increased wage?are you suggesting these ‘low skilled ‘ workers should work for a pittance to keep them ‘keen’? What is to stop truck drivers from now being lazy and incompetent because basically they are in such high demand and well paid they don’t need to learn ‘new skills ‘ or work hard? A very strange view to think people get lazy and incompetent because they earn a good living in my personal experience people work harder the more they earn.
I agree, and that is my point, increase the minimum wage and the lowest paid will work harder as apposed to ‘why would workers even learn new skills ‘ Then you would have to increase all wages to maintain the reason to learn new skills.
Why? Do people only learn new skills for money? Would you rather be a cleaner (nothing wrong with cleavers on £12 an hour ) or say a car designer on £20 an hour, some jobs are more desirable than others regardless of pay Because thats what the majority of people go to work for "money" i dont know any people who go just for fun do you?"I know loads of people who love their job, what we have learnt during the pandemic is that the majority of low paid workers do essential work, it’s often hard work, and not very pleasant , this is why they all deserve a better minimum wage . Do you honestly think that people will stop going to uni and train for other ‘more skilled ‘ jobs because cleaners and delivery drivers are better paid? | |||
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"Fab doesn't understand economics and approaches everything through the prism if apparent political advantage. I've advised him to write to countries that are working hard to increase they wealth and tell them they have got it all wrong ..and that they should simply increase they min wages by legislative fiat . I'm sure they'll take note" Can you name these ‘developing ‘ countries? And why are they creating a chronic shortage of workers in certain industries to increase wages? | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done.
So you flood the labour market to force pay down and then attempt to counter it by legislation? What on earth is the point?
Why are you against wage rises for all of the lower paid?
You don't make a nation wealthy by legislation. You only make wealth by letting markets function, allowing pricing mechanisms to work, getting unemployment down and liberalising the economy.
That gets wages rising in a lasting way. A min wage is a way for politicians to avoid doing what needs doing...and that is damaging to all workers
Look at it another way: if a min wage makes people wealthier, why not raise it to £50 an hour? We'd all be loaded
No, it benefits the lower paid, hence the name ‘minimum wage’ why are you against all the lower paid get a decent pay rise? You seem to be siding with the employers not the low paid employees
A min wage is a very poor way to increase wages...far better and more sustainable to let labour markets function without the undercutting that the EU brought.
Why would workers ever learn new skills if the min wage meant they wouldn't get better pay?
And why support flooding labour markets in the first place if you then have to correct your error by legislation?
What is your reason for this?
So you only want truck drivers to get an increased wage?are you suggesting these ‘low skilled ‘ workers should work for a pittance to keep them ‘keen’? What is to stop truck drivers from now being lazy and incompetent because basically they are in such high demand and well paid they don’t need to learn ‘new skills ‘ or work hard? A very strange view to think people get lazy and incompetent because they earn a good living in my personal experience people work harder the more they earn.
I agree, and that is my point, increase the minimum wage and the lowest paid will work harder as apposed to ‘why would workers even learn new skills ‘ Then you would have to increase all wages to maintain the reason to learn new skills.
Why? Do people only learn new skills for money? Would you rather be a cleaner (nothing wrong with cleavers on £12 an hour ) or say a car designer on £20 an hour, some jobs are more desirable than others regardless of pay Because thats what the majority of people go to work for "money" i dont know any people who go just for fun do you?
I know loads of people who love their job, what we have learnt during the pandemic is that the majority of low paid workers do essential work, it’s often hard work, and not very pleasant , this is why they all deserve a better minimum wage . Do you honestly think that people will stop going to uni and train for other ‘more skilled ‘ jobs because cleaners and delivery drivers are better paid? "Why would anyone ever take on a high stress highly responsible job if they could get the same wages for turning up and cleaning an office.Im sure you cant actually believe half the stuff you post and have not seen anyone who has said low paid workers are not valued. As i told you before april 1st the minimum wage was raised. | |||
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"The UK working man doesn't want to pick fruit, it seems. Historically the UK worker (why do you ignore women?) Has been happy to pick fruit. Something must have happened to change that. What do you think that may be? It's tough work and it doesn't pay enough. You're missing or ignoring the key point. Bosses are importing workers from further afield than the EU. That is all Brexit has done in this case. There is zero benefit to the UK worker. (Actually, that's not fully true. Brexit has also led to a lot of food rotting in fields due to a lack of pickers.) Then what is the answer? Higher wages, surely. Yet you oppose the means to push wages higher. You sound like you think we should just import more cheap labour. Do I understand you correctly? Nope. You simply misrepresent me as usual. How am I opposing anything by pointing out what is literally happening now? Brexit doesn't stop workers from elsewhere being flown in to do the jobs uk people clearly don't want to do. You do understand Brexit didn't stop movement from certain other countries outside the EU? Don't you? You're looking appalling now. Do you support a tightening of the labour market... after years of undermining...or not? I'm literally pointing out facts. How is pointing out facts appalling?
Do you support increasing wages? Or do you support importing cheap labour to avoid paying workers properly?
I'd stop digging if I was you
Of course I support better wages. Who doesn't?
You seem bizzarely angry because I've simply told you facts. We left the EU. We lost a load of EU workers. So bosses started importing cheap labour from further afield.
So the only results in that sector were a lot of fruit and veg rotted in fields. And lots of CO2 got pointlessly spewed into the atmosphere after that long distance travel. UK workers did not benefit, since they apparently want to pick fruit and veg.
(As for digging, maybe I should continue digging. That'd help get some of the fruit and veg in before it rots.)
You say you support increased wages. Yet you bitterly oppose the means to doing so
Anyone might think you were confused
Pointing out facts is confused? OK.
Do you support a tightening of the labour market?
If there's a way to increase wages that doesn't fuck the entire country, why not?
The problem is that Brexit is fucking the country. It's cost us a fortune and we've lost so much from it.
And when it comes to these fruit and veg pickers, as already pointed out, there has been no benefit to UK workers. And - again as already pointed out - a load of fruit and veg has rotted in the fields.
How does a labour market increase wages? Have you ever taken part in pay talks?
No , abs neither have you, it’s very simple to increase wages, increase the minimum wage, job done.
So you flood the labour market to force pay down and then attempt to counter it by legislation? What on earth is the point?
Why are you against wage rises for all of the lower paid?
You don't make a nation wealthy by legislation. You only make wealth by letting markets function, allowing pricing mechanisms to work, getting unemployment down and liberalising the economy.
That gets wages rising in a lasting way. A min wage is a way for politicians to avoid doing what needs doing...and that is damaging to all workers
Look at it another way: if a min wage makes people wealthier, why not raise it to £50 an hour? We'd all be loaded
No, it benefits the lower paid, hence the name ‘minimum wage’ why are you against all the lower paid get a decent pay rise? You seem to be siding with the employers not the low paid employees
A min wage is a very poor way to increase wages...far better and more sustainable to let labour markets function without the undercutting that the EU brought.
Why would workers ever learn new skills if the min wage meant they wouldn't get better pay?
And why support flooding labour markets in the first place if you then have to correct your error by legislation?
What is your reason for this?
So you only want truck drivers to get an increased wage?are you suggesting these ‘low skilled ‘ workers should work for a pittance to keep them ‘keen’? What is to stop truck drivers from now being lazy and incompetent because basically they are in such high demand and well paid they don’t need to learn ‘new skills ‘ or work hard? A very strange view to think people get lazy and incompetent because they earn a good living in my personal experience people work harder the more they earn.
I agree, and that is my point, increase the minimum wage and the lowest paid will work harder as apposed to ‘why would workers even learn new skills ‘ Then you would have to increase all wages to maintain the reason to learn new skills.
Why? Do people only learn new skills for money? Would you rather be a cleaner (nothing wrong with cleavers on £12 an hour ) or say a car designer on £20 an hour, some jobs are more desirable than others regardless of pay Because thats what the majority of people go to work for "money" i dont know any people who go just for fun do you?
I know loads of people who love their job, what we have learnt during the pandemic is that the majority of low paid workers do essential work, it’s often hard work, and not very pleasant , this is why they all deserve a better minimum wage . Do you honestly think that people will stop going to uni and train for other ‘more skilled ‘ jobs because cleaners and delivery drivers are better paid? Why would anyone ever take on a high stress highly responsible job if they could get the same wages for turning up and cleaning an office.Im sure you cant actually believe half the stuff you post and have not seen anyone who has said low paid workers are not valued. As i told you before april 1st the minimum wage was raised."I know, and rightly so , tbh the minimum wage doesn’t need to be increased by much, but for some one to state that all the lower paid workers will benefits because of Brexit is bonkers | |||
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"Adrian have you read the Digby Jones Index by now, then? As I already said, it details 262 stories where companies have had to cut jobs due to Brexit. They're all listed and documented there. You said earlier for every job lost by Brexit, 4 have been created. So I expect you can list 1048 stories about Brexit creating jobs." I have just looked at a few of them Honda didnt they say they were pulling out before brexit, nipon paint was taken over by a German company in 2017 and cant even find any related job losses, Japanese ball bearing co loss of 20 jobs, a french minister SAYING they will have 3,000 more jobs by the end of 2021 to be honest i couldnt be bothered to read anymore its a collection of twitter posts put together by a bitter remainer i would imagine with not alot of substance to back it up. It amazes me that people are still clutching at straws to make themselves right. | |||
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"Adrian have you read the Digby Jones Index by now, then? As I already said, it details 262 stories where companies have had to cut jobs due to Brexit. They're all listed and documented there. You said earlier for every job lost by Brexit, 4 have been created. So I expect you can list 1048 stories about Brexit creating jobs." Project fear | |||
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"Adrian have you read the Digby Jones Index by now, then? As I already said, it details 262 stories where companies have had to cut jobs due to Brexit. They're all listed and documented there. You said earlier for every job lost by Brexit, 4 have been created. So I expect you can list 1048 stories about Brexit creating jobs. I have just looked at a few of them Honda didnt they say they were pulling out before brexit, nipon paint was taken over by a German company in 2017 and cant even find any related job losses, Japanese ball bearing co loss of 20 jobs, a french minister SAYING they will have 3,000 more jobs by the end of 2021 to be honest i couldnt be bothered to read anymore its a collection of twitter posts put together by a bitter remainer i would imagine with not alot of substance to back it up. It amazes me that people are still clutching at straws to make themselves right. "They are so bitter. They are looking so bad now...if Remainers thought the last General Election was bad they ought to wait to the next one. They remind me if David Lammy saying Leave voters were Nazis. A week later he said he'd had a rethink: they were WORSE than Nazis. Then Boris called the election and Lanny had to ask those people to vote for him
The Remainers are now digging an even deeper hole for themselves by appearing to wish damage on working people | |||
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"PS still on the jobs front, I'm sure you know after all those pesky Europeans have been seen off, it left a huge gap in the labour market for fruit pickers. So, apparently, we have started importing fruit pickers from up to 6000 miles away to try and fill that hole. I'm sure that's another win for Brexit, the UK working man and the environment. Posted again for you in case you missed it. Appalling that you should oppose such an opportunity to force an increase in wages" I don’t, wage increases lift everyone, my problem is that people in the UK especially the unemployed shouldn’t turn their noses up to good honest work. Yes it may increase food prices a little. But at least we can cover our output. We shouldn’t be reliant on cheap labour to paper over problems. In this brave new world, we have to take steps to readdressing the balance. Using what we have instead of buying in. | |||
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"PS still on the jobs front, I'm sure you know after all those pesky Europeans have been seen off, it left a huge gap in the labour market for fruit pickers. So, apparently, we have started importing fruit pickers from up to 6000 miles away to try and fill that hole. I'm sure that's another win for Brexit, the UK working man and the environment. Posted again for you in case you missed it. Appalling that you should oppose such an opportunity to force an increase in wages I don’t, wage increases lift everyone, my problem is that people in the UK especially the unemployed shouldn’t turn their noses up to good honest work. Yes it may increase food prices a little. But at least we can cover our output. We shouldn’t be reliant on cheap labour to paper over problems. In this brave new world, we have to take steps to readdressing the balance. Using what we have instead of buying in." British jobs for British workers? | |||
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"Adrian have you read the Digby Jones Index by now, then? As I already said, it details 262 stories where companies have had to cut jobs due to Brexit. They're all listed and documented there. You said earlier for every job lost by Brexit, 4 have been created. So I expect you can list 1048 stories about Brexit creating jobs. I have just looked at a few of them Honda didnt they say they were pulling out before brexit, nipon paint was taken over by a German company in 2017 and cant even find any related job losses, Japanese ball bearing co loss of 20 jobs, a french minister SAYING they will have 3,000 more jobs by the end of 2021 to be honest i couldnt be bothered to read anymore its a collection of twitter posts put together by a bitter remainer i would imagine with not alot of substance to back it up. It amazes me that people are still clutching at straws to make themselves right.
They are so bitter. They are looking so bad now...if Remainers thought the last General Election was bad they ought to wait to the next one.
They remind me if David Lammy saying Leave voters were Nazis. A week later he said he'd had a rethink: they were WORSE than Nazis. Then Boris called the election and Lanny had to ask those people to vote for him
The Remainers are now digging an even deeper hole for themselves by appearing to wish damage on working people"Still waiting to hear about your 1000+ stories about Brexit job increases... | |||
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"Adrian have you read the Digby Jones Index by now, then? As I already said, it details 262 stories where companies have had to cut jobs due to Brexit. They're all listed and documented there. You said earlier for every job lost by Brexit, 4 have been created. So I expect you can list 1048 stories about Brexit creating jobs. I have just looked at a few of them Honda didnt they say they were pulling out before brexit, nipon paint was taken over by a German company in 2017 and cant even find any related job losses, Japanese ball bearing co loss of 20 jobs, a french minister SAYING they will have 3,000 more jobs by the end of 2021 to be honest i couldnt be bothered to read anymore its a collection of twitter posts put together by a bitter remainer i would imagine with not alot of substance to back it up. It amazes me that people are still clutching at straws to make themselves right.
They are so bitter. They are looking so bad now...if Remainers thought the last General Election was bad they ought to wait to the next one.
They remind me if David Lammy saying Leave voters were Nazis. A week later he said he'd had a rethink: they were WORSE than Nazis. Then Boris called the election and Lanny had to ask those people to vote for him
The Remainers are now digging an even deeper hole for themselves by appearing to wish damage on working people
Still waiting to hear about your 1000+ stories about Brexit job increases..."The UK economy has grown by 8.2% so far this year. In Spain's EU workers paradise, hourly wage rates have fallen by 3% in the last three months. Unemployment is stuck at 20% and at 40%b for young people | |||
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"Adrian have you read the Digby Jones Index by now, then? As I already said, it details 262 stories where companies have had to cut jobs due to Brexit. They're all listed and documented there. You said earlier for every job lost by Brexit, 4 have been created. So I expect you can list 1048 stories about Brexit creating jobs. I have just looked at a few of them Honda didnt they say they were pulling out before brexit, nipon paint was taken over by a German company in 2017 and cant even find any related job losses, Japanese ball bearing co loss of 20 jobs, a french minister SAYING they will have 3,000 more jobs by the end of 2021 to be honest i couldnt be bothered to read anymore its a collection of twitter posts put together by a bitter remainer i would imagine with not alot of substance to back it up. It amazes me that people are still clutching at straws to make themselves right.
They are so bitter. They are looking so bad now...if Remainers thought the last General Election was bad they ought to wait to the next one.
They remind me if David Lammy saying Leave voters were Nazis. A week later he said he'd had a rethink: they were WORSE than Nazis. Then Boris called the election and Lanny had to ask those people to vote for him
The Remainers are now digging an even deeper hole for themselves by appearing to wish damage on working people
Still waiting to hear about your 1000+ stories about Brexit job increases..."Yeah but, truck drivers are getting more money ,, if you can find any , shame no one else is . | |||
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"Adrian have you read the Digby Jones Index by now, then? As I already said, it details 262 stories where companies have had to cut jobs due to Brexit. They're all listed and documented there. You said earlier for every job lost by Brexit, 4 have been created. So I expect you can list 1048 stories about Brexit creating jobs. I have just looked at a few of them Honda didnt they say they were pulling out before brexit, nipon paint was taken over by a German company in 2017 and cant even find any related job losses, Japanese ball bearing co loss of 20 jobs, a french minister SAYING they will have 3,000 more jobs by the end of 2021 to be honest i couldnt be bothered to read anymore its a collection of twitter posts put together by a bitter remainer i would imagine with not alot of substance to back it up. It amazes me that people are still clutching at straws to make themselves right.
They are so bitter. They are looking so bad now...if Remainers thought the last General Election was bad they ought to wait to the next one.
They remind me if David Lammy saying Leave voters were Nazis. A week later he said he'd had a rethink: they were WORSE than Nazis. Then Boris called the election and Lanny had to ask those people to vote for him
The Remainers are now digging an even deeper hole for themselves by appearing to wish damage on working people
Still waiting to hear about your 1000+ stories about Brexit job increases...
The UK economy has grown by 8.2% so far this year.
In Spain's EU workers paradise, hourly wage rates have fallen by 3% in the last three months. Unemployment is stuck at 20% and at 40%b for young people"How are Germany doing? | |||
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"Adrian have you read the Digby Jones Index by now, then? As I already said, it details 262 stories where companies have had to cut jobs due to Brexit. They're all listed and documented there. You said earlier for every job lost by Brexit, 4 have been created. So I expect you can list 1048 stories about Brexit creating jobs. I have just looked at a few of them Honda didnt they say they were pulling out before brexit, nipon paint was taken over by a German company in 2017 and cant even find any related job losses, Japanese ball bearing co loss of 20 jobs, a french minister SAYING they will have 3,000 more jobs by the end of 2021 to be honest i couldnt be bothered to read anymore its a collection of twitter posts put together by a bitter remainer i would imagine with not alot of substance to back it up. It amazes me that people are still clutching at straws to make themselves right.
They are so bitter. They are looking so bad now...if Remainers thought the last General Election was bad they ought to wait to the next one.
They remind me if David Lammy saying Leave voters were Nazis. A week later he said he'd had a rethink: they were WORSE than Nazis. Then Boris called the election and Lanny had to ask those people to vote for him
The Remainers are now digging an even deeper hole for themselves by appearing to wish damage on working people
Still waiting to hear about your 1000+ stories about Brexit job increases...
The UK economy has grown by 8.2% so far this year.
In Spain's EU workers paradise, hourly wage rates have fallen by 3% in the last three months. Unemployment is stuck at 20% and at 40%b for young people"Still waiting to hear 1000+ stories about job increases... | |||
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"PS still on the jobs front, I'm sure you know after all those pesky Europeans have been seen off, it left a huge gap in the labour market for fruit pickers. So, apparently, we have started importing fruit pickers from up to 6000 miles away to try and fill that hole. I'm sure that's another win for Brexit, the UK working man and the environment. Posted again for you in case you missed it. Appalling that you should oppose such an opportunity to force an increase in wages I don’t, wage increases lift everyone, my problem is that people in the UK especially the unemployed shouldn’t turn their noses up to good honest work. Yes it may increase food prices a little. But at least we can cover our output. We shouldn’t be reliant on cheap labour to paper over problems. In this brave new world, we have to take steps to readdressing the balance. Using what we have instead of buying in. British jobs for British workers? " We need to look first to our own worker capacity before we run off making snap decisions which will affect society in general. Its like in business, if you got permanent staff on your books doing nothing then you move them into areas which require help. Less paperwork less cost. Instead of going on the phone and recruiting someone from the employment agency. | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point?" How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect | |||
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"PS still on the jobs front, I'm sure you know after all those pesky Europeans have been seen off, it left a huge gap in the labour market for fruit pickers. So, apparently, we have started importing fruit pickers from up to 6000 miles away to try and fill that hole. I'm sure that's another win for Brexit, the UK working man and the environment. Posted again for you in case you missed it. Appalling that you should oppose such an opportunity to force an increase in wages I don’t, wage increases lift everyone, my problem is that people in the UK especially the unemployed shouldn’t turn their noses up to good honest work. Yes it may increase food prices a little. But at least we can cover our output. We shouldn’t be reliant on cheap labour to paper over problems. In this brave new world, we have to take steps to readdressing the balance. Using what we have instead of buying in. British jobs for British workers? We need to look first to our own worker capacity before we run off making snap decisions which will affect society in general. Its like in business, if you got permanent staff on your books doing nothing then you move them into areas which require help. Less paperwork less cost. Instead of going on the phone and recruiting someone from the employment agency." I see, where are these UK companies that have staff ‘doing nothing ‘ ? | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect " Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU "Why are you fixated with Spain, I have to be honest , I couldn’t care less what is happening there, I am interested in Germany though | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU
Why are you fixated with Spain, I have to be honest , I couldn’t care less what is happening there, I am interested in Germany though "German unemployment 6.1%, UK employment 4.7%. | |||
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"Adrian have you read the Digby Jones Index by now, then? As I already said, it details 262 stories where companies have had to cut jobs due to Brexit. They're all listed and documented there. You said earlier for every job lost by Brexit, 4 have been created. So I expect you can list 1048 stories about Brexit creating jobs. I have just looked at a few of them Honda didnt they say they were pulling out before brexit, nipon paint was taken over by a German company in 2017 and cant even find any related job losses, Japanese ball bearing co loss of 20 jobs, a french minister SAYING they will have 3,000 more jobs by the end of 2021 to be honest i couldnt be bothered to read anymore its a collection of twitter posts put together by a bitter remainer i would imagine with not alot of substance to back it up. It amazes me that people are still clutching at straws to make themselves right.
They are so bitter. They are looking so bad now...if Remainers thought the last General Election was bad they ought to wait to the next one.
They remind me if David Lammy saying Leave voters were Nazis. A week later he said he'd had a rethink: they were WORSE than Nazis. Then Boris called the election and Lanny had to ask those people to vote for him
The Remainers are now digging an even deeper hole for themselves by appearing to wish damage on working people
Still waiting to hear about your 1000+ stories about Brexit job increases...
The UK economy has grown by 8.2% so far this year.
In Spain's EU workers paradise, hourly wage rates have fallen by 3% in the last three months. Unemployment is stuck at 20% and at 40%b for young people
Still waiting to hear 1000+ stories about job increases...
"Get over it mate i know its hard to come to terms with being conned about 500,000 job loses by people who were only looking after their own interests in the hope of jumping on the eu gravy train once they were voted out in the uk. | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU
Why are you fixated with Spain, I have to be honest , I couldn’t care less what is happening there, I am interested in Germany though
German unemployment 6.1%, UK employment 4.7%."Amazing, and their economy? How are they performing whilst in the EU, average wage etc etc | |||
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"Adrian have you read the Digby Jones Index by now, then? As I already said, it details 262 stories where companies have had to cut jobs due to Brexit. They're all listed and documented there. You said earlier for every job lost by Brexit, 4 have been created. So I expect you can list 1048 stories about Brexit creating jobs. I have just looked at a few of them Honda didnt they say they were pulling out before brexit, nipon paint was taken over by a German company in 2017 and cant even find any related job losses, Japanese ball bearing co loss of 20 jobs, a french minister SAYING they will have 3,000 more jobs by the end of 2021 to be honest i couldnt be bothered to read anymore its a collection of twitter posts put together by a bitter remainer i would imagine with not alot of substance to back it up. It amazes me that people are still clutching at straws to make themselves right.
They are so bitter. They are looking so bad now...if Remainers thought the last General Election was bad they ought to wait to the next one.
They remind me if David Lammy saying Leave voters were Nazis. A week later he said he'd had a rethink: they were WORSE than Nazis. Then Boris called the election and Lanny had to ask those people to vote for him
The Remainers are now digging an even deeper hole for themselves by appearing to wish damage on working people
Still waiting to hear about your 1000+ stories about Brexit job increases...
The UK economy has grown by 8.2% so far this year.
In Spain's EU workers paradise, hourly wage rates have fallen by 3% in the last three months. Unemployment is stuck at 20% and at 40%b for young people
Still waiting to hear 1000+ stories about job increases...
Get over it mate i know its hard to come to terms with being conned about 500,000 job loses by people who were only looking after their own interests in the hope of jumping on the eu gravy train once they were voted out in the uk.
"Tbf, just 5 will probably be suffice | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU
Why are you fixated with Spain, I have to be honest , I couldn’t care less what is happening there, I am interested in Germany though
German unemployment 6.1%, UK employment 4.7%.
Amazing, and their economy? How are they performing whilst in the EU, average wage etc etc "You know about the German 'mini-jobs' do you? | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU
Why are you fixated with Spain, I have to be honest , I couldn’t care less what is happening there, I am interested in Germany though
German unemployment 6.1%, UK employment 4.7%.
Amazing, and their economy? How are they performing whilst in the EU, average wage etc etc
You know about the German 'mini-jobs' do you?"Are they like normal jobs but smaller? Or is it to do with the car (that used to be British ) | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU
Why are you fixated with Spain, I have to be honest , I couldn’t care less what is happening there, I am interested in Germany though
German unemployment 6.1%, UK employment 4.7%.
Amazing, and their economy? How are they performing whilst in the EU, average wage etc etc
You know about the German 'mini-jobs' do you?"Anything like being on zero hours contracts? Where you are in full time employment, unable to take any other job, unable to claim any benefits, but company can say that there is no work for you and no pay for you? And in some cases can tell you with less than an hours notice that you have to be at work, and if you can't get there are able to fine you for it? | |||
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"PS still on the jobs front, I'm sure you know after all those pesky Europeans have been seen off, it left a huge gap in the labour market for fruit pickers. So, apparently, we have started importing fruit pickers from up to 6000 miles away to try and fill that hole. I'm sure that's another win for Brexit, the UK working man and the environment. Posted again for you in case you missed it. Appalling that you should oppose such an opportunity to force an increase in wages I don’t, wage increases lift everyone, my problem is that people in the UK especially the unemployed shouldn’t turn their noses up to good honest work. Yes it may increase food prices a little. But at least we can cover our output. We shouldn’t be reliant on cheap labour to paper over problems. In this brave new world, we have to take steps to readdressing the balance. Using what we have instead of buying in. British jobs for British workers? We need to look first to our own worker capacity before we run off making snap decisions which will affect society in general. Its like in business, if you got permanent staff on your books doing nothing then you move them into areas which require help. Less paperwork less cost. Instead of going on the phone and recruiting someone from the employment agency. I see, where are these UK companies that have staff ‘doing nothing ‘ ? " Its a metaphor, e.g staff would be the unemployed in this case already got tax code, NI right to work in the UK sorted etc less paperwork get them into work. As opposed to a non uk worker, need to get NI, tax code, accomodation, permits to work. Lots of paper work more hassle. People got the dragon’s den mentality, if its going to cost more money outsource it, instead of doing things which provide jobs for the exiting workforce. Its all low costs high profits, which is broken which brexit clearly highlighted, our over reliance on cheap labour, goods and now, now, now. Good or bad, whatever the situation, we need to address the structural problem which brexit exposed and come up with solutions which use what we got, a bit like make do and mend. | |||
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"PS still on the jobs front, I'm sure you know after all those pesky Europeans have been seen off, it left a huge gap in the labour market for fruit pickers. So, apparently, we have started importing fruit pickers from up to 6000 miles away to try and fill that hole. I'm sure that's another win for Brexit, the UK working man and the environment. Posted again for you in case you missed it. Appalling that you should oppose such an opportunity to force an increase in wages I don’t, wage increases lift everyone, my problem is that people in the UK especially the unemployed shouldn’t turn their noses up to good honest work. Yes it may increase food prices a little. But at least we can cover our output. We shouldn’t be reliant on cheap labour to paper over problems. In this brave new world, we have to take steps to readdressing the balance. Using what we have instead of buying in. British jobs for British workers? We need to look first to our own worker capacity before we run off making snap decisions which will affect society in general. Its like in business, if you got permanent staff on your books doing nothing then you move them into areas which require help. Less paperwork less cost. Instead of going on the phone and recruiting someone from the employment agency. I see, where are these UK companies that have staff ‘doing nothing ‘ ? Its a metaphor, e.g staff would be the unemployed in this case already got tax code, NI right to work in the UK sorted etc less paperwork get them into work. As opposed to a non uk worker, need to get NI, tax code, accomodation, permits to work. Lots of paper work more hassle. People got the dragon’s den mentality, if its going to cost more money outsource it, instead of doing things which provide jobs for the exiting workforce. Its all low costs high profits, which is broken which brexit clearly highlighted, our over reliance on cheap labour, goods and now, now, now. Good or bad, whatever the situation, we need to address the structural problem which brexit exposed and come up with solutions which use what we got, a bit like make do and mend. " Ah right, ‘make do and mend’ a good slogan for post Brexit Britain | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU
Why are you fixated with Spain, I have to be honest , I couldn’t care less what is happening there, I am interested in Germany though
German unemployment 6.1%, UK employment 4.7%.
Amazing, and their economy? How are they performing whilst in the EU, average wage etc etc
You know about the German 'mini-jobs' do you?
Anything like being on zero hours contracts? Where you are in full time employment, unable to take any other job, unable to claim any benefits, but company can say that there is no work for you and no pay for you? And in some cases can tell you with less than an hours notice that you have to be at work, and if you can't get there are able to fine you for it?"That's it. Most people think of Germany differently...but they're 15 years out of date | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU
Why are you fixated with Spain, I have to be honest , I couldn’t care less what is happening there, I am interested in Germany though
German unemployment 6.1%, UK employment 4.7%.
Amazing, and their economy? How are they performing whilst in the EU, average wage etc etc
You know about the German 'mini-jobs' do you?
Are they like normal jobs but smaller? Or is it to do with the car (that used to be British ) "You seem to see everything through the narrow prism of political appearance, not reality | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU
Why are you fixated with Spain, I have to be honest , I couldn’t care less what is happening there, I am interested in Germany though
German unemployment 6.1%, UK employment 4.7%.
Amazing, and their economy? How are they performing whilst in the EU, average wage etc etc
You know about the German 'mini-jobs' do you?
Are they like normal jobs but smaller? Or is it to do with the car (that used to be British )
You seem to see everything through the narrow prism of political appearance, not reality"Reality eh? I'm still waiting for your 1000+ stories of Brexit job gains that you boasted about. | |||
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"Adrian have you read the Digby Jones Index by now, then? As I already said, it details 262 stories where companies have had to cut jobs due to Brexit. They're all listed and documented there. You said earlier for every job lost by Brexit, 4 have been created. So I expect you can list 1048 stories about Brexit creating jobs. I have just looked at a few of them Honda didnt they say they were pulling out before brexit, nipon paint was taken over by a German company in 2017 and cant even find any related job losses, Japanese ball bearing co loss of 20 jobs, a french minister SAYING they will have 3,000 more jobs by the end of 2021 to be honest i couldnt be bothered to read anymore its a collection of twitter posts put together by a bitter remainer i would imagine with not alot of substance to back it up. It amazes me that people are still clutching at straws to make themselves right.
They are so bitter. They are looking so bad now...if Remainers thought the last General Election was bad they ought to wait to the next one.
They remind me if David Lammy saying Leave voters were Nazis. A week later he said he'd had a rethink: they were WORSE than Nazis. Then Boris called the election and Lanny had to ask those people to vote for him
The Remainers are now digging an even deeper hole for themselves by appearing to wish damage on working people
Still waiting to hear about your 1000+ stories about Brexit job increases...
The UK economy has grown by 8.2% so far this year.
In Spain's EU workers paradise, hourly wage rates have fallen by 3% in the last three months. Unemployment is stuck at 20% and at 40%b for young people"8% You do know our economy tanked more than nearly all others! So if two years ago you were being paid £1.20 then last year your wages were £1.00. This year your wages are going up to £1.10 rising “10%” wow! Have your wages gone up overall or just not dropped quite so much this year? Headline figures are not the reality of the bigger picture. But the daily mail will tell you otherwise.. | |||
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"actually the lead story in the mail online at present is quite surprising and acknowledges that Brexit is partly to blame for food/goods price increases and shortages - i know i had to double check i was reading the mail! lol " Nothing to do with the pandemic or the shortage of containers worldwide or the problem in the Suez Canal that had the knock on effect that’s still ongoing then? | |||
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"actually the lead story in the mail online at present is quite surprising and acknowledges that Brexit is partly to blame for food/goods price increases and shortages - i know i had to double check i was reading the mail! lol " The Mail is a pro-eu paper | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU "That's very shocking figures you quote from Spain. I thought they had a problem ages ago, long before covid but assumed they rebounded. | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU
That's very shocking figures you quote from Spain. I thought they had a problem ages ago, long before covid but assumed they rebounded."Spain has had problems for many years, caused by their refusal to liberalise their economy. Large sections if it are cartelised. It is now exarcebated by extremely high energy prices, caused by their ambitions to be the 'Saudi Arabia of renewable energy'. That ambition is spurred by the EU | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU
That's very shocking figures you quote from Spain. I thought they had a problem ages ago, long before covid but assumed they rebounded.
Spain has had problems for many years, caused by their refusal to liberalise their economy. Large sections if it are cartelised.
It is now exarcebated by extremely high energy prices, caused by their ambitions to be the 'Saudi Arabia of renewable energy'. That ambition is spurred by the EU"I guess it's safe to assume at this point you can't produce those 1000 + stories of Brexit job gains you boasted about earlier. What a surprise. | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU
That's very shocking figures you quote from Spain. I thought they had a problem ages ago, long before covid but assumed they rebounded.
Spain has had problems for many years, caused by their refusal to liberalise their economy. Large sections if it are cartelised.
It is now exarcebated by extremely high energy prices, caused by their ambitions to be the 'Saudi Arabia of renewable energy'. That ambition is spurred by the EU"Their labour laws are not helping either employers are reluctant to take on more employees as its so bloody hard to lay them off again when things get slack. | |||
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"German unemployment has been higher than in the UK for many years now.. despite the effects of the Euro. What's your point? How is there economy doing etc, my point is this, they are in the EU, btw, your figures for Spain are incorrect Spanish unemployment is 15.7%. I was thinking of not long ago when it was over 27%. One of the EU success stories
Spanish wages have fallen by 3% in the last vthree months.
Good luck in converting that into good news for vthe EU
That's very shocking figures you quote from Spain. I thought they had a problem ages ago, long before covid but assumed they rebounded.
Spain has had problems for many years, caused by their refusal to liberalise their economy. Large sections if it are cartelised.
It is now exarcebated by extremely high energy prices, caused by their ambitions to be the 'Saudi Arabia of renewable energy'. That ambition is spurred by the EUTheir labour laws are not helping either employers are reluctant to take on more employees as its so bloody hard to lay them off again when things get slack."Can’t you offer them short term contracts? | |||
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"actually the lead story in the mail online at present is quite surprising and acknowledges that Brexit is partly to blame for food/goods price increases and shortages - i know i had to double check i was reading the mail! lol The Mail is a pro-eu paper" thats complete bollocks…. | |||
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"actually the lead story in the mail online at present is quite surprising and acknowledges that Brexit is partly to blame for food/goods price increases and shortages - i know i had to double check i was reading the mail! lol Nothing to do with the pandemic or the shortage of containers worldwide or the problem in the Suez Canal that had the knock on effect that’s still ongoing then?" which bit of “partly” to blame did you not read……? | |||
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