FabSwingers.com forum: Batley & Spen

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Is this gonna see the end of Kier Starmer?

George Galloway looking to steal the Muslim vote and Paul Halloran not running.

Kinda looks like it could be another Conservative win.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/ive-never-seen-anything-like-this-before-batley-campaigners-report-unprecedented-intimidation-ahead-of-polling-day?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

If the Torys win this. The condescension and saltiness is going to be unprecedented.

I’m watching this one with interest.

Labour can’t let this one slip.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Blag leaflets going round saying labour support taking the knee and oppose whiteness.

Quite how labour would even begin to entice voters with that mindset is beyond me.

Let the fuckwits vote for alex and his chums and watch as the shit show gradually unfolds.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"If the Torys win this. The condescension and saltiness is going to be unprecedented.

I’m watching this one with interest.

Labour can’t let this one slip. "

Even worse than Hartlepool? Is it possible?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Blag leaflets going round saying labour support taking the knee and oppose whiteness.

Quite how labour would even begin to entice voters with that mindset is beyond me.

Let the fuckwits vote for alex and his chums and watch as the shit show gradually unfolds."

The Labour mayor is saying its the Hard-left that are causing problems.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Blag leaflets going round saying labour support taking the knee and oppose whiteness.

Quite how labour would even begin to entice voters with that mindset is beyond me.

Let the fuckwits vote for alex and his chums and watch as the shit show gradually unfolds.

The Labour mayor is saying its the Hard-left that are causing problems."

Galloway Is causing problems but the tories are putting out blag leaflets.

Fairly sure not for the 1st time

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Yup it’s going to be fun.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Blag leaflets going round saying labour support taking the knee and oppose whiteness.

Quite how labour would even begin to entice voters with that mindset is beyond me.

Let the fuckwits vote for alex and his chums and watch as the shit show gradually unfolds.

The Labour mayor is saying its the Hard-left that are causing problems.

Galloway Is causing problems but the tories are putting out blag leaflets.

Fairly sure not for the 1st time

And labour putting out leaflets telling Muslims that Boris prefers Sikhs.

Is that much different to 'labour oppose whiteness'

BTW, the leaflets you refer to, have they actually been distributed because all I can see is a tweet about them reportedly being distributed

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By *lex46TV/TS
over a year ago

Near Wells

If the Conservatives win this seat, it will the first time since the war that a government has gained and won two by-elections in a single parliamentary term??

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Blag leaflets going round saying labour support taking the knee and oppose whiteness.

Quite how labour would even begin to entice voters with that mindset is beyond me.

Let the fuckwits vote for alex and his chums and watch as the shit show gradually unfolds.

The Labour mayor is saying its the Hard-left that are causing problems.

Galloway Is causing problems but the tories are putting out blag leaflets.

Fairly sure not for the 1st time

And labour putting out leaflets telling Muslims that Boris prefers Sikhs.

Is that much different to 'labour oppose whiteness'

BTW, the leaflets you refer to, have they actually been distributed because all I can see is a tweet about them reportedly being distributed "

Who is putting them out?

There are pictures on twitter of the taking the knee pamphlets.

If labour lose ,cant see starmer surviving, which may not be a bad thing.

I'm just not sure how 1 party can appeal to pro brexit "voters'and left leaning types.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"If the Conservatives win this seat, it will the first time since the war that a government has gained and won two by-elections in a single parliamentary term?? "

Wasnt your last stat totally debunked?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Blag leaflets going round saying labour support taking the knee and oppose whiteness.

Quite how labour would even begin to entice voters with that mindset is beyond me.

Let the fuckwits vote for alex and his chums and watch as the shit show gradually unfolds.

The Labour mayor is saying its the Hard-left that are causing problems.

Galloway Is causing problems but the tories are putting out blag leaflets.

Fairly sure not for the 1st time

And labour putting out leaflets telling Muslims that Boris prefers Sikhs.

Is that much different to 'labour oppose whiteness'

BTW, the leaflets you refer to, have they actually been distributed because all I can see is a tweet about them reportedly being distributed

Who is putting them out?

There are pictures on twitter of the taking the knee pamphlets.

If labour lose ,cant see starmer surviving, which may not be a bad thing.

I'm just not sure how 1 party can appeal to pro brexit "voters'and left leaning types."

Judging by the article in the Guardian it is an official Labour pamphlet.

'The Labour MP Navendu Mishra said the “divisive” leaflet sought to turn communities against each other and exposed a “hierarchy of racism” within the party. He added: “We beat our opponents based on policies, not by dog-whistle racism."

I'm surprised you've seen the fake Tory ones but not this one.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

All parties should show restraint and respect.

That constituency deserves better!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All parties should show restraint and respect.

That constituency deserves better! "

Well said

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

We've got a Tory government who (even I as a Tory think) are pretty inept.

We are mid term in this parliament. A time when governing parties traditionally lose by elections, even in supposedly safe seats.

Yet here we are in an opposition held seat and it's nip and tuck (at best) whether or not they will hold on to it. It's a time when they should be bashing the calculators adding up how many thousands they will increase the majority by.

There is something seriously wrong with the Labour party.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/27/labour-activists-allegedly-egged-kicked-batley-and-spen-campaign-trail

Nice

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Blag leaflets going round saying labour support taking the knee and oppose whiteness.

Quite how labour would even begin to entice voters with that mindset is beyond me.

Let the fuckwits vote for alex and his chums and watch as the shit show gradually unfolds.

The Labour mayor is saying its the Hard-left that are causing problems.

Galloway Is causing problems but the tories are putting out blag leaflets.

Fairly sure not for the 1st time

And labour putting out leaflets telling Muslims that Boris prefers Sikhs.

Is that much different to 'labour oppose whiteness'

BTW, the leaflets you refer to, have they actually been distributed because all I can see is a tweet about them reportedly being distributed

Who is putting them out?

There are pictures on twitter of the taking the knee pamphlets.

If labour lose ,cant see starmer surviving, which may not be a bad thing.

I'm just not sure how 1 party can appeal to pro brexit "voters'and left leaning types.

Judging by the article in the Guardian it is an official Labour pamphlet.

I'm surprised you've seen the fake Tory ones but not this one."

I I genuinely havent.

I've seen the one where they have pointed out Islamaphobia in the Tory party and the gmnt have accused them of stoking up racial division.

Well they should no racial division when they see it tbf

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

"All parties should show restraint and respect.

That constituency deserves better! "

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/28/tuc-condemns-batley-byelection-dirty-tricks-after-fake-labour-leaflet

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

The problem labour have in the north is their support has splintered.

Those in the big cities(lpool and manchester in particular) have stayed loyal whilst the smaller towns have protested about labour moving to the centre,by voting for the most right wing gmnt in living memory.

Quite how you solve that is anyones guess.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/28/tuc-condemns-batley-byelection-dirty-tricks-after-fake-labour-leaflet

So the tories target labour and labour target each other.

Brilliant.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"All parties should show restraint and respect.

That constituency deserves better! "

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

The police are now involved. The racial overtones there are rather disturbing.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Blag leaflets going round saying labour support taking the knee and oppose whiteness.

Quite how labour would even begin to entice voters with that mindset is beyond me.

Let the fuckwits vote for alex and his chums and watch as the shit show gradually unfolds.

The Labour mayor is saying its the Hard-left that are causing problems.

Galloway Is causing problems but the tories are putting out blag leaflets.

Fairly sure not for the 1st time

And labour putting out leaflets telling Muslims that Boris prefers Sikhs.

Is that much different to 'labour oppose whiteness'

BTW, the leaflets you refer to, have they actually been distributed because all I can see is a tweet about them reportedly being distributed

Who is putting them out?

There are pictures on twitter of the taking the knee pamphlets.

If labour lose ,cant see starmer surviving, which may not be a bad thing.

I'm just not sure how 1 party can appeal to pro brexit "voters'and left leaning types.

Judging by the article in the Guardian it is an official Labour pamphlet.

I'm surprised you've seen the fake Tory ones but not this one.

I I genuinely havent.

I've seen the one where they have pointed out Islamaphobia in the Tory party and the gmnt have accused them of stoking up racial division.

Well they should no racial division when they see it tbf "

You've seen the one in the link that Twisted posted?

Clearly showing Boris shaking hands with the Indian PM.

You can't see what that leaflet is saying?

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Galloway and his puppets are reaping this division.

Using the LGBTQ argument from Birmingham against the Labour candidate for nothing more than clicks and dividing the voter base even further.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Galloway and his puppets are reaping this division.

Using the LGBTQ argument from Birmingham against the Labour candidate for nothing more than clicks and dividing the voter base even further. "

I agree. I actually think Galloway may well just give this constituency to the Conservatives by splitting that left wing vote.

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By *ittleAcornMan
over a year ago

visiting the beach

"Galloway and his puppets are reaping this division.

Using the LGBTQ argument from Birmingham against the Labour candidate for nothing more than clicks and dividing the voter base even further.

I agree. I actually think Galloway may well just give this constituency to the Conservatives by splitting that left wing vote.

I suspect that is exactly what he was hired to do.

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By *lex46TV/TS
over a year ago

Near Wells

"If the Conservatives win this seat, it will the first time since the war that a government has gained and won two by-elections in a single parliamentary term??

Wasnt your last stat totally debunked?"

Possibly but this one is on good authority.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"Galloway and his puppets are reaping this division.

Using the LGBTQ argument from Birmingham against the Labour candidate for nothing more than clicks and dividing the voter base even further.

I agree. I actually think Galloway may well just give this constituency to the Conservatives by splitting that left wing vote.

I suspect that is exactly what he was hired to do."

That would suggest Galloway has political influence.

I don't think he does.

His campaign to unsettle the SNP dominance in Scotland failed miserably.

The divisions in this constituency don't really need a Galloway, fake leaflet or even an official labour leaflet to ignite them.

The problem for Batley and Spen is no one candidate is prepared to stick their neck out and really talk about what is going on under the surface.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Politics is so grubby these days (maybe it always was). Instead of spending so much energy saying how bad the other lot are, how about, I dunno, actually focusing all that energy on what you are going to do to help improve people’s lives!

Less “those lot are no good, don’t vote for them”

More “we are good this is what we will do”

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Galloway and his puppets are reaping this division.

Using the LGBTQ argument from Birmingham against the Labour candidate for nothing more than clicks and dividing the voter base even further.

I agree. I actually think Galloway may well just give this constituency to the Conservatives by splitting that left wing vote.

I suspect that is exactly what he was hired to do."

Is Galloway even left wing any more?

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"Politics is so grubby these days (maybe it always was). Instead of spending so much energy saying how bad the other lot are, how about, I dunno, actually focusing all that energy on what you are going to do to help improve people’s lives!

Less “those lot are no good, don’t vote for them”

More “we are good this is what we will do”"

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/can-keir-starmer-bounce-back-from-a-batley-and-spen-by-election-loss_uk_60d8b276e4b066ff5abb91fa

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By *eanoCoolMan
over a year ago

wisbech

Less “those lot are no good, don’t vote for them”

More “we are good this is what we will do”"

Well said

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

Less “those lot are no good, don’t vote for them”

More “we are good this is what we will do”"

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Less “those lot are no good, don’t vote for them”

More “we are good this is what we will do”"

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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago

milton keynes

Less “those lot are no good, don’t vote for them”

More “we are good this is what we will do”"

Spot on, just hope it catches on. Also as it seems Labour helped the lib dems in the last by election should the lib dems return the favour to support labour? Don't know if it will be enough but got to help

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Anyone seen the BBC interview with Galloway?

The BBC did seem oddly worried for Labour. Which of course then allowed George to do his thing.

Comedy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is this gonna see the end of Kier Starmer?

George Galloway looking to steal the Muslim vote and Paul Halloran not running.

Kinda looks like it could be another Conservative win.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/ive-never-seen-anything-like-this-before-batley-campaigners-report-unprecedented-intimidation-ahead-of-polling-day?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral"

Well, I grew up on the dance floor of the Batley Variety Club and I had my first ever curry from nearby.

I shopped locally, I banked locally and I loved Saturday teatime wrestling featuring Jim Brakes. (Cry Baby)

The local religion has changed. And that is why Batley & Spen is being subjected to religiously close scrutiny.

Hope that helps.

To be honest, I don't see much hope for good voting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whilst the North falls to Boris, his southern flank is exposed.

Are we going to see a reversal of heartlands?

With the north blue and the south red,green or yellow?

Looks like it could happen.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Whilst the North falls to Boris, his southern flank is exposed.

Are we going to see a reversal of heartlands?

With the north blue and the south red,green or yellow?

Looks like it could happen."

Some of the north

Some of us can see through the charade.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Whilst the North falls to Boris, his southern flank is exposed.

Are we going to see a reversal of heartlands?

With the north blue and the south red,green or yellow?

Looks like it could happen.

Some of the north

Some of us can see through the charade."

Some, not all.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Whilst the North falls to Boris, his southern flank is exposed.

Are we going to see a reversal of heartlands?

With the north blue and the south red,green or yellow?

Looks like it could happen.

Some of the north

Some of us can see through the charade.

Some, not all."

What I have never understood is why, if you think the labour party has left the working class behind,you vote for a man who wouldnt piss on them ,if they were on fire.

Its genuinely baffling

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"Galloway and his puppets are reaping this division.

Using the LGBTQ argument from Birmingham against the Labour candidate for nothing more than clicks and dividing the voter base even further.

I agree. I actually think Galloway may well just give this constituency to the Conservatives by splitting that left wing vote.

I suspect that is exactly what he was hired to do.

Is Galloway even left wing any more?"
Of course he is his main aim is to get rid of KS and get a left leaning leader in ,didnt he say not so long ago despite their differences in the pst he pledges his allegiance to corbyn.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Galloway and his puppets are reaping this division.

Using the LGBTQ argument from Birmingham against the Labour candidate for nothing more than clicks and dividing the voter base even further.

I agree. I actually think Galloway may well just give this constituency to the Conservatives by splitting that left wing vote.

I suspect that is exactly what he was hired to do.

Is Galloway even left wing any more?Of course he is his main aim is to get rid of KS and get a left leaning leader in ,didnt he say not so long ago despite their differences in the pst he pledges his allegiance to corbyn. "

Last time I looked he was gushing about Lawrence fox

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"Galloway and his puppets are reaping this division.

Using the LGBTQ argument from Birmingham against the Labour candidate for nothing more than clicks and dividing the voter base even further.

I agree. I actually think Galloway may well just give this constituency to the Conservatives by splitting that left wing vote.

I suspect that is exactly what he was hired to do.

Last time I looked he was gushing about Lawrence fox"
Just proves my point what a fucking idiot he is then.

mind you i wouldnt mind knowing fox,s cousin Amelia.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

Wow, that was close but well done to Kim Ledbetter and Labour, winning by 323 votes.

Big shoes to fill, so wish her luck.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"Wow, that was close but well done to Kim Ledbetter and Labour, winning by 323 votes.

Big shoes to fill, so wish her luck.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Barely held the seat.

George Galloway to mount legal challenge citing council meddling / dirty tricks

To be fair, after 11 years of Conservatives in government, Labour should really have held this seat with ease abd secured a far bigger majority - especially this one, that they've held since 1997.

I wouod think that a 323 vote majority is recount territory

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

Labour would have won the seat easily if Galloway hadn't split the left wing vote.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Barely held the seat.

George Galloway to mount legal challenge citing council meddling / dirty tricks

To be fair, after 11 years of Conservatives in government, Labour should really have held this seat with ease abd secured a far bigger majority - especially this one, that they've held since 1997.

I wouod think that a 323 vote majority is recount territory"

It went to a "bundle" recount, which is one step down from a full recount.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

To be honest I think it's a funny old result.

Of course the Tories would have loved to have won so just being pipped would be a disappointment.

However I think it is the worst possible result for Labour.

Had they won with a decent majority it would have kicked any leadership challenge well into the long grass.

Had they lost it would have almost certainly brought the leadership issue to a head and possibly (probably) the end of Starmer. Which would have given any new leader time to prepare for the next GE.

As it stands, the leadership question is going to fester until, at least, the next by election, probably longer.

Net result is that Labour will either stagger on with Starmer to the next GE or any new leader will not have time to get him/herself established.

Either way it will be another Tory win.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

I’m wondering what the other 41,587 - 52.4% of Batley and Spen think about the result.

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"I’m wondering what the other 41,587 - 52.4% of Batley and Spen think about the result.

It doesn't matter what they think as they couldn't be bothered to vote.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"I’m wondering what the other 41,587 - 52.4% of Batley and Spen think about the result.

It doesn't matter what they think as they couldn't be bothered to vote. "

or didn’t see anything they wanted to vote for.

All voters matter, especially here, as it would appear there is a majority of them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A reduced majority, but a victory none the less. But the real test would be at the GE.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"I’m wondering what the other 41,587 - 52.4% of Batley and Spen think about the result.

It doesn't matter what they think as they couldn't be bothered to vote.

or didn’t see anything they wanted to vote for.

All voters matter, especially here, as it would appear there is a majority of them."

You didn't have the same opinion for the referendum non-voters. Particularly younger ones.

Picking and choosing?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"I’m wondering what the other 41,587 - 52.4% of Batley and Spen think about the result.

2019 turnout was 66.5%, 47% in this by-election.

Thats around 16000 that voted in 2019 but didn't vote this time.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I’m wondering what the other 41,587 - 52.4% of Batley and Spen think about the result.

It doesn't matter what they think as they couldn't be bothered to vote.

or didn’t see anything they wanted to vote for.

All voters matter, especially here, as it would appear there is a majority of them.

You didn't have the same opinion for the referendum non-voters. Particularly younger ones.

Picking and choosing?"

The referendum vote was a choice of yes/no. Everyone can find themselves on either side of that.

When it comes to a vote with 5/6 different options it's completely different.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"I’m wondering what the other 41,587 - 52.4% of Batley and Spen think about the result.

2019 turnout was 66.5%, 47% in this by-election.

Thats around 16000 that voted in 2019 but didn't vote this time. "

… and then we have the FPTP system is berated, calls for a change to the system or voting to be made mandatory discussion.

Nothing changes

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"I’m wondering what the other 41,587 - 52.4% of Batley and Spen think about the result.

It doesn't matter what they think as they couldn't be bothered to vote.

or didn’t see anything they wanted to vote for.

All voters matter, especially here, as it would appear there is a majority of them.

You didn't have the same opinion for the referendum non-voters. Particularly younger ones.

Picking and choosing?"

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"I’m wondering what the other 41,587 - 52.4% of Batley and Spen think about the result.

It doesn't matter what they think as they couldn't be bothered to vote.

or didn’t see anything they wanted to vote for.

All voters matter, especially here, as it would appear there is a majority of them.

You didn't have the same opinion for the referendum non-voters. Particularly younger ones.

Picking and choosing?"

Did I ?

Which one ?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Congratulations to Kim lead better

The crackpot right wing candidate polled 50 votes and lost her deposit so good news all round.

One political commentator is suggesting the brexit loyalists stayed at home

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Congratulations to Kim lead better

The crackpot right wing candidate polled 50 votes and lost her deposit so good news all round.

One political commentator is suggesting the brexit loyalists stayed at home"

That could be right about Brexit voters. Maybe they didn't feel like they had to vote this time round.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Hopefully Galloway will crawl back under his rock.

I tend to agree though that whilst a good victory for Labour it means Kier remains which I think is stagnant for the party.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"I’m wondering what the other 41,587 - 52.4% of Batley and Spen think about the result.

It doesn't matter what they think as they couldn't be bothered to vote.

or didn’t see anything they wanted to vote for.

All voters matter, especially here, as it would appear there is a majority of them.

You didn't have the same opinion for the referendum non-voters. Particularly younger ones.

Picking and choosing?

Did I ?

Which one ?"

Your position has consistently been that young voters not voting on Brexit was their own fault.

All voters did not matter.

Why do non-voters matter now?

Apologies if I have you confused with someone else, but I don't think that I have.

The fact that Brexit or Labour being in question is not pertinent. It's more why arguments can be recali rated depending on your starting opinion.

Everyone does it to some extent, and it requires some effort to redress that.

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"I’m wondering what the other 41,587 - 52.4% of Batley and Spen think about the result.

It doesn't matter what they think as they couldn't be bothered to vote.

or didn’t see anything they wanted to vote for.

All voters matter, especially here, as it would appear there is a majority of them.

You didn't have the same opinion for the referendum non-voters. Particularly younger ones.

Picking and choosing?

The referendum vote was a choice of yes/no. Everyone can find themselves on either side of that.

When it comes to a vote with 5/6 different options it's completely different."

The question is about the contradiction of "all votes matter", but only sometimes...

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By *asyukMan
over a year ago

West London

"Congratulations to Kim lead better

The crackpot right wing candidate polled 50 votes and lost her deposit so good news all round.

One political commentator is suggesting the brexit loyalists stayed at home

That could be right about Brexit voters. Maybe they didn't feel like they had to vote this time round."

Which is ironic.

Brexit will not solve real problems automatically. If it really does provide opportunity then the Government's actions will.

Brexit "being done" is a lie isn't it? It may never be

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I’m wondering what the other 41,587 - 52.4% of Batley and Spen think about the result.

It doesn't matter what they think as they couldn't be bothered to vote.

or didn’t see anything they wanted to vote for.

All voters matter, especially here, as it would appear there is a majority of them.

You didn't have the same opinion for the referendum non-voters. Particularly younger ones.

Picking and choosing?

The referendum vote was a choice of yes/no. Everyone can find themselves on either side of that.

When it comes to a vote with 5/6 different options it's completely different.

The question is about the contradiction of "all votes matter", but only sometimes..."

When asked a polar question as we were in the referendum, then you can't moan about it if you chose not to vote.

When asked a choice question as we are in FPTP elections, you can choose to say 'I didn't vote because I don't like any of them'.

Thats how I see it anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The referendum vote was a choice of yes/no. Everyone can find themselves on either side of that."

Forgive me if I disagree.

There are some who felt strongly about whether we remained or left the EU.

There were others who were on the fence. Undecided. Weren't convinced by either argument or for some reason didn't find themselves able to vote either way.

If I were to ask you if you'd like to be shot in your left foot or your right foot, that's a polar choice, but I'm sure you'd rather not be shot in either. Forgive the shooting yourself in the foot metaphor in relation to brexit. I assure you it wasn't deliberate

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The referendum vote was a choice of yes/no. Everyone can find themselves on either side of that.

Forgive me if I disagree.

There are some who felt strongly about whether we remained or left the EU.

There were others who were on the fence. Undecided. Weren't convinced by either argument or for some reason didn't find themselves able to vote either way.

It wasnt that kind of polar question though.

It was 'stay as we are' or 'change'.

I understand your metaphor but I don't feel it works for the question that was asked.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"The referendum vote was a choice of yes/no. Everyone can find themselves on either side of that.

Forgive me if I disagree.

There are some who felt strongly about whether we remained or left the EU.

There were others who were on the fence. Undecided. Weren't convinced by either argument or for some reason didn't find themselves able to vote either way.

If you wanted the "status quo", then surely "no" was the vote?

There should be a third option on all voting papers.... "i've considered all options but none of the above".

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Congratulations to Kim lead better

The crackpot right wing candidate polled 50 votes and lost her deposit so good news all round.

One political commentator is suggesting the brexit loyalists stayed at home

That could be right about Brexit voters. Maybe they didn't feel like they had to vote this time round."

That worked out well for them.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Funny how when the conservatives win a by election it's a big positive.

Yet labour Win one and it's a negative.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"The referendum vote was a choice of yes/no. Everyone can find themselves on either side of that.

Forgive me if I disagree.

There are some who felt strongly about whether we remained or left the EU.

There were others who were on the fence. Undecided. Weren't convinced by either argument or for some reason didn't find themselves able to vote either way.

It wasnt that kind of polar question though.

It was 'stay as we are' or 'change'.

I understand your metaphor but I don't feel it works for the question that was asked."

True

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

"Funny how when the conservatives win a by election it's a big positive.

Yet labour Win one and it's a negative."

I think it’s a negative. But only in the way that it keeps Kier in the job. I don’t think he’s any good in the long term and it would have been a good time to have got rid of him. Now how do you go about it?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"Funny how when the conservatives win a by election it's a big positive.

Yet labour Win one and it's a negative."

Technically, Conservatives won the Harlepool seat, as it wasn't theirs going into the by-election.

Labour held Batley and Spen, so the status quo is kept.

But then on the same measure, the Lib-Dems won Chesham from the Conservatives.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

"Funny how when the conservatives win a by election it's a big positive.

Yet labour Win one and it's a negative."
I dont see it as a negative if the Tories had won SKS was toast at least now he may have a chance of keeping the far left from regaining power over the labour party.

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

"Funny how when the conservatives win a by election it's a big positive.

Yet labour Win one and it's a negative.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

"I’m wondering what the other 41,587 - 52.4% of Batley and Spen think about the result.

It doesn't matter what they think as they couldn't be bothered to vote.

or didn’t see anything they wanted to vote for.

All voters matter, especially here, as it would appear there is a majority of them.

You didn't have the same opinion for the referendum non-voters. Particularly younger ones.

Picking and choosing?

Did I ?

Which one ?

Your position has consistently been that young voters not voting on Brexit was their own fault.

All voters did not matter.

Why do non-voters matter now?

Apologies if I have you confused with someone else, but I don't think that I have.

The fact that Brexit or Labour being in question is not pertinent. It's more why arguments can be recali rated depending on your starting opinion.

Everyone does it to some extent, and it requires some effort to redress that."

Confusing me with someone else.

My only opinion for young voters is that the legal age to vote should remain at 18.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"The referendum vote was a choice of yes/no. Everyone can find themselves on either side of that.

Forgive me if I disagree.

There are some who felt strongly about whether we remained or left the EU.

There were others who were on the fence. Undecided. Weren't convinced by either argument or for some reason didn't find themselves able to vote either way.

It wasnt that kind of polar question though.

It was 'stay as we are' or 'change'.

I understand your metaphor but I don't feel it works for the question that was asked."

The problem being that “stay as we are” was singular but “change” had multiple agendas or desired outcomes.

There should have been a 2nd referendum, not to overturn the vote to leave but to determine how we leave and what type of “deal” most people wanted.

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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago

milton keynes

Well done to Labour holding the seat. Maybe a glimmer of light appearing for SKS. Not sure if those that prefer a more corbyn style will be happy or not as on the one hand they did not loose another seat but on the other it strengthens SKS

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The referendum vote was a choice of yes/no. Everyone can find themselves on either side of that.

Forgive me if I disagree.

There are some who felt strongly about whether we remained or left the EU.

There were others who were on the fence. Undecided. Weren't convinced by either argument or for some reason didn't find themselves able to vote either way.

It wasnt that kind of polar question though.

It was 'stay as we are' or 'change'.

I understand your metaphor but I don't feel it works for the question that was asked.

The problem being that “stay as we are” was singular but “change” had multiple agendas or desired outcomes.

There should have been a 2nd referendum, not to overturn the vote to leave but to determine how we leave and what type of “deal” most people wanted."

I don't disagree with you on this. Just pointing out that it was a polar question as opposed to a multi choice question.

Maybe it should have been multi choice but it wasn't so we can't compare them.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

SKS says labour are back

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke.

To the wall again, lol.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

"The referendum vote was a choice of yes/no. Everyone can find themselves on either side of that.

Forgive me if I disagree.

There are some who felt strongly about whether we remained or left the EU.

There were others who were on the fence. Undecided. Weren't convinced by either argument or for some reason didn't find themselves able to vote either way.

It wasnt that kind of polar question though.

It was 'stay as we are' or 'change'.

I understand your metaphor but I don't feel it works for the question that was asked.

The problem being that “stay as we are” was singular but “change” had multiple agendas or desired outcomes.

There should have been a 2nd referendum, not to overturn the vote to leave but to determine how we leave and what type of “deal” most people wanted.

I don't disagree with you on this. Just pointing out that it was a polar question as opposed to a multi choice question.

Maybe it should have been multi choice but it wasn't so we can't compare them."

I think a multi choice would have been too complex. There was “In/Out”. Out secured a small majority.

There should then have been “What kind of Out do you want: A, B, C, D” maybe 6-12 mths later.

It was too complex to be a purely In/Out and most people didn’t really understand the full ramifications (regardless of which side you fell).

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The referendum vote was a choice of yes/no. Everyone can find themselves on either side of that.

Forgive me if I disagree.

There are some who felt strongly about whether we remained or left the EU.

There were others who were on the fence. Undecided. Weren't convinced by either argument or for some reason didn't find themselves able to vote either way.

It wasnt that kind of polar question though.

It was 'stay as we are' or 'change'.

I understand your metaphor but I don't feel it works for the question that was asked.

The problem being that “stay as we are” was singular but “change” had multiple agendas or desired outcomes.

There should have been a 2nd referendum, not to overturn the vote to leave but to determine how we leave and what type of “deal” most people wanted.

I don't disagree with you on this. Just pointing out that it was a polar question as opposed to a multi choice question.

Maybe it should have been multi choice but it wasn't so we can't compare them.

I think a multi choice would have been too complex. There was “In/Out”. Out secured a small majority.

There should then have been “What kind of Out do you want: A, B, C, D” maybe 6-12 mths later.

It was too complex to be a purely In/Out and most people didn’t really understand the full ramifications (regardless of which side you fell)."

Maybe that would've been the way to go but you would still have have same people arguing that 'only 17% wanted this deal' even though it would've been the highest % of all choices