Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000." ". An outstanding success story providing customers what they want . The fact that Amazon organises their affairs to minimise tax liabilities. works to the customers advantage as goods are cheaper. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Great news again. Also not sure if anyone mentioned before but I read Wendy's are returning to the UK after 20 years away and creating 12,000 jobs over time. It America they are second only to McDonalds and do veggie food too" yes i saw that the other day and do like a wendy,s myself so well happy bring back the square burger.  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000." "or amazon cost the high street 10,000 jobs? headline.. online monster is swallowing our shops... so says barry manilow.... Copacabana to close... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
or amazon cost the high street 10,000 jobs? headline..
online monster is swallowing our shops... so says barry manilow.... Copacabana to close..."Bermuda Triangle one of my faves 
What do you say to that Mandy
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . " .... and yet the jobs created by their most recent DC opening has been heralded as a god send by the local community. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"People just love to moan about amazon yet sales have gone up month on month
"Yes, everyone wants to save planet but still fly in fucking great planes lol People are selfish twats... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . " it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"We used to build a shelter and hunt food Now we go to work on a train etc causing pollution, work some shit job... la la for shelter and food ! Lol we are so clever, but to be fair its a posher shelter! "  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon " You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"We used to build a shelter and hunt food Now we go to work on a train etc causing pollution, work some shit job... la la for shelter and food ! Lol we are so clever, but to be fair its a posher shelter! " And hopefully we don’t risk getting eaten by Hyenas !!  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"We used to build a shelter and hunt food Now we go to work on a train etc causing pollution, work some shit job... la la for shelter and food ! Lol we are so clever, but to be fair its a posher shelter! And hopefully we don’t risk getting eaten by Hyenas !! "Well eat hyena lol | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. " This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items" If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! " Maybe because Amazon can sell at highly competitive prices the overall market share for the sale of goods has increased and consequently everyone is a winner. We have retail shops for those who wise to view and Amazon for those happy to rely on the Internet. Increased Amazon sales have significan spin off effects such as increased work for couriers and additional van sales for vehicle manufacturers or leasing companies. Retailers on the High street will simply adopt to changing circumstances. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! Maybe because Amazon can sell at highly competitive prices the overall market share for the sale of goods has increased and consequently everyone is a winner. We have retail shops for those who wise to view and Amazon for those happy to rely on the Internet. Increased Amazon sales have significan spin off effects such as increased work for couriers and additional van sales for vehicle manufacturers or leasing companies. Retailers on the High street will simply adopt to changing circumstances. " Yeah sell more and more shit and throw in landfill lol amazon is competitive coz machines do a lot of the jobs... Welcome to a brave new world..... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. " However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! Maybe because Amazon can sell at highly competitive prices the overall market share for the sale of goods has increased and consequently everyone is a winner. We have retail shops for those who wise to view and Amazon for those happy to rely on the Internet. Increased Amazon sales have significan spin off effects such as increased work for couriers and additional van sales for vehicle manufacturers or leasing companies. Retailers on the High street will simply adopt to changing circumstances. Yeah sell more and more shit and throw in landfill lol amazon is competitive coz machines do a lot of the jobs... Welcome to a brave new world....." Yes . Society has moved on and progressed with the times . JCB are testing a machine that can fix potholes in about ten minutes and the Deere Corporation are a world leader in farming automation. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! Maybe because Amazon can sell at highly competitive prices the overall market share for the sale of goods has increased and consequently everyone is a winner. We have retail shops for those who wise to view and Amazon for those happy to rely on the Internet. Increased Amazon sales have significan spin off effects such as increased work for couriers and additional van sales for vehicle manufacturers or leasing companies. Retailers on the High street will simply adopt to changing circumstances. Yeah sell more and more shit and throw in landfill lol amazon is competitive coz machines do a lot of the jobs... Welcome to a brave new world....." Are Amazon not providing exactly what the customer wants . ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! Maybe because Amazon can sell at highly competitive prices the overall market share for the sale of goods has increased and consequently everyone is a winner. We have retail shops for those who wise to view and Amazon for those happy to rely on the Internet. Increased Amazon sales have significan spin off effects such as increased work for couriers and additional van sales for vehicle manufacturers or leasing companies. Retailers on the High street will simply adopt to changing circumstances. Yeah sell more and more shit and throw in landfill lol amazon is competitive coz machines do a lot of the jobs... Welcome to a brave new world..... Are Amazon not providing exactly what the customer wants . ? " Nope They provide what the masses want . They dont provide what every one needs or wants | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . " So as I stated Amazon pay employers tax and move their profits. They avoid U.K. tax on profits which would be considerably more than employees tax. . I can send an invoice from one country to another for “management services” and the profit is moved simply and effectively. Starbucks and Amazon move their profit to a more favourable tax regime country avoiding corporation tax in the U.K. as do JCB. It’s all get and we let them get away with it. The EU were going after these loopholes which is why tax exiles in the U.K. backed Brexit. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! Maybe because Amazon can sell at highly competitive prices the overall market share for the sale of goods has increased and consequently everyone is a winner. We have retail shops for those who wise to view and Amazon for those happy to rely on the Internet. Increased Amazon sales have significan spin off effects such as increased work for couriers and additional van sales for vehicle manufacturers or leasing companies. Retailers on the High street will simply adopt to changing circumstances. " Let’s try to simplify it to get the point across. Say you have 5 towns in a region. Each has 2 shops selling microwaves. So 10 shops. They each need to sell 4 microwaves a day at £150 to pay wages for the manager and salesman. So 2 employees each and 20 employees in total selling 40 machines. Amazon has a new warehouse positioned in the middle of those 5 towns. They sell the microwaves at £100 because they bulk buy. Everyone buys from Amazon as it’s easy and much cheaper. Amazon need 1 warehouse man and 1 driver to load and deliver the same 40 microwaves. So Amazon 2 employees. Profits to Luxembourg Shops 20 Employees profits spent locally. Result - shops close. Other local business suffer.and you get a derelict high street. Job creation???? Where??? Cheap products if you have a job and can pay. But keep shutting those shops snd who is going to win in the long run. It isn’t the workers to give you a clue!! Amazon import the steel for their warehouses through the Humber. It’s all prefabricated. So local jobs are limited there too. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . So as I stated Amazon pay employers tax and move their profits. They avoid U.K. tax on profits which would be considerably more than employees tax. . I can send an invoice from one country to another for “management services” and the profit is moved simply and effectively. Starbucks and Amazon move their profit to a more favourable tax regime country avoiding corporation tax in the U.K. as do JCB. It’s all get and we let them get away with it. The EU were going after these loopholes which is why tax exiles in the U.K. backed Brexit. " It’s all legal that should say. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . So as I stated Amazon pay employers tax and move their profits. They avoid U.K. tax on profits which would be considerably more than employees tax. . I can send an invoice from one country to another for “management services” and the profit is moved simply and effectively. Starbucks and Amazon move their profit to a more favourable tax regime country avoiding corporation tax in the U.K. as do JCB. It’s all get and we let them get away with it. The EU were going after these loopholes which is why tax exiles in the U.K. backed Brexit. " However whilst you can raise an invoice to transfer profits from one country to another, unless the charge can be fully substantiated HMRC may simply add it back for the purposes of a corporation tax calculation. This is an area that HMRC would look at very carefully as it is potentially tax avoidance. In addition , were you to do such a transfer your reported profits in the UK would be lower and should a company have borrowings it might potentially put them into breach of various covenants relating to bank borrowings . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! Maybe because Amazon can sell at highly competitive prices the overall market share for the sale of goods has increased and consequently everyone is a winner. We have retail shops for those who wise to view and Amazon for those happy to rely on the Internet. Increased Amazon sales have significan spin off effects such as increased work for couriers and additional van sales for vehicle manufacturers or leasing companies. Retailers on the High street will simply adopt to changing circumstances. Let’s try to simplify it to get the point across. Say you have 5 towns in a region. Each has 2 shops selling microwaves. So 10 shops. They each need to sell 4 microwaves a day at £150 to pay wages for the manager and salesman. So 2 employees each and 20 employees in total selling 40 machines. Amazon has a new warehouse positioned in the middle of those 5 towns. They sell the microwaves at £100 because they bulk buy. Everyone buys from Amazon as it’s easy and much cheaper. Amazon need 1 warehouse man and 1 driver to load and deliver the same 40 microwaves. So Amazon 2 employees. Profits to Luxembourg Shops 20 Employees profits spent locally. Result - shops close. Other local business suffer.and you get a derelict high street. Job creation???? Where??? Cheap products if you have a job and can pay. But keep shutting those shops snd who is going to win in the long run. It isn’t the workers to give you a clue!! Amazon import the steel for their warehouses through the Humber. It’s all prefabricated. So local jobs are limited there too. " . Hello. I fail to see how you can say everyone buys from Amazon because it is easier and cheaper. Some people buy from Amazon because of convenience. However a lot of people will still wish to see goods before they purchase . To compete retailers will continue to cut overheads and where necessary move to locations with cheaper rents . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! " So there can never be good news on jobs then, very sad day. Personally I thought job creation was good but reading your post that seems very difficult. You say you would be happy if its a factory making stuff but does that not have the same problem. For instance if a new factory opened making ovens then everyone they sold would be one less for the other factories making ovens so we have the same situation. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! So there can never be good news on jobs then, very sad day. Personally I thought job creation was good but reading your post that seems very difficult. You say you would be happy if its a factory making stuff but does that not have the same problem. For instance if a new factory opened making ovens then everyone they sold would be one less for the other factories making ovens so we have the same situation." If we are selling ovens in the U.K. , exporting ovens and no longer importing ovens and there is a spins off supply chain jobs created it’s a win win. There a difference . Importing crap and selling it doesn’t great U.K. jobs. The market doesn’t grow as additional jobs aren’t created . The cheaper things get the lower the pay becomes the less people have to spend . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! Maybe because Amazon can sell at highly competitive prices the overall market share for the sale of goods has increased and consequently everyone is a winner. We have retail shops for those who wise to view and Amazon for those happy to rely on the Internet. Increased Amazon sales have significan spin off effects such as increased work for couriers and additional van sales for vehicle manufacturers or leasing companies. Retailers on the High street will simply adopt to changing circumstances. Let’s try to simplify it to get the point across. Say you have 5 towns in a region. Each has 2 shops selling microwaves. So 10 shops. They each need to sell 4 microwaves a day at £150 to pay wages for the manager and salesman. So 2 employees each and 20 employees in total selling 40 machines. Amazon has a new warehouse positioned in the middle of those 5 towns. They sell the microwaves at £100 because they bulk buy. Everyone buys from Amazon as it’s easy and much cheaper. Amazon need 1 warehouse man and 1 driver to load and deliver the same 40 microwaves. So Amazon 2 employees. Profits to Luxembourg Shops 20 Employees profits spent locally. Result - shops close. Other local business suffer.and you get a derelict high street. Job creation???? Where??? Cheap products if you have a job and can pay. But keep shutting those shops snd who is going to win in the long run. It isn’t the workers to give you a clue!! Amazon import the steel for their warehouses through the Humber. It’s all prefabricated. So local jobs are limited there too. . Hello. I fail to see how you can say everyone buys from Amazon because it is easier and cheaper. Some people buy from Amazon because of convenience. However a lot of people will still wish to see goods before they purchase . To compete retailers will continue to cut overheads and where necessary move to locations with cheaper rents . " Two people in a shop on fixed rent and utilities ?? They can maybe change phones supplier but it will be jobs that are cut ultimately as that’s the only cost to cut. My economic argument stands . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . So as I stated Amazon pay employers tax and move their profits. They avoid U.K. tax on profits which would be considerably more than employees tax. . I can send an invoice from one country to another for “management services” and the profit is moved simply and effectively. Starbucks and Amazon move their profit to a more favourable tax regime country avoiding corporation tax in the U.K. as do JCB. It’s all get and we let them get away with it. The EU were going after these loopholes which is why tax exiles in the U.K. backed Brexit. However whilst you can raise an invoice to transfer profits from one country to another, unless the charge can be fully substantiated HMRC may simply add it back for the purposes of a corporation tax calculation. This is an area that HMRC would look at very carefully as it is potentially tax avoidance. In addition , were you to do such a transfer your reported profits in the UK would be lower and should a company have borrowings it might potentially put them into breach of various covenants relating to bank borrowings . " Do you actually think £500m is a reasonable admin fee for JCB to charge for the owners service ? That’s what they transferred to Luxembourg . This procedure happens daily and we let it happen. Why is Ireland so prosperous GDP wise and no new jobs or factories ?? The big corporations transfer funds daily and HMRC do nothing. At least the French have had a go at the likes of Facebook! Our MP’s are usually on the payroll of JCB. Saying it’s avoidance is correct it is and it’s legal. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . So as I stated Amazon pay employers tax and move their profits. They avoid U.K. tax on profits which would be considerably more than employees tax. . I can send an invoice from one country to another for “management services” and the profit is moved simply and effectively. Starbucks and Amazon move their profit to a more favourable tax regime country avoiding corporation tax in the U.K. as do JCB. It’s all get and we let them get away with it. The EU were going after these loopholes which is why tax exiles in the U.K. backed Brexit. However whilst you can raise an invoice to transfer profits from one country to another, unless the charge can be fully substantiated HMRC may simply add it back for the purposes of a corporation tax calculation. This is an area that HMRC would look at very carefully as it is potentially tax avoidance. In addition , were you to do such a transfer your reported profits in the UK would be lower and should a company have borrowings it might potentially put them into breach of various covenants relating to bank borrowings . Do you actually think £500m is a reasonable admin fee for JCB to charge for the owners service ? That’s what they transferred to Luxembourg . This procedure happens daily and we let it happen. Why is Ireland so prosperous GDP wise and no new jobs or factories ?? The big corporations transfer funds daily and HMRC do nothing. At least the French have had a go at the likes of Facebook! Our MP’s are usually on the payroll of JCB. Saying it’s avoidance is correct it is and it’s legal. " So one minute you are telling us the uk left because the eu are going after these loopholes and the next breath they are transfering to Luxenbourg and Ireland, you do realise these companies are IN the eu?  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000." "10,000 new Amazon jobs are highly likely to come about as a result of two or three times those losses elsewhere. On the face of it, 10,000 new jobs looks great and these days all news like this is an apparent win. But these jobs are replacing conventional High Street jobs whose owners would b Pay Corporation Tax. Yes, just like the High Street Companies - Amazon will be obliged to charge VAT on sales and will pay NI. The 10,000 employees will also pay their NI contribution and PAYE too. The important tax that will not be paid is Corporation Tax. That is the tax that should be associating a Company’s profit to the country that it is operating in. A kind of thank you to the country for providing the infrastructure and opportunity to be profitable. Corporation Tax hikes was supposed to be a way that the Govt were going to claw back some of their Coronavirus spending. Ironically, if it does increase CT, the Companies that made a killing during the lockdowns will not be paying it anyway. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
If a company is making money here they should pay the appreciate amount of tax,which,should,go towards public services.
Why anyone would find excuses for not doing that is bizarre, but not unsurprising. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. " thank you for educating me mate lol so the ten thousand jobs arnt real jobs then ? So how are the numbers on unemployment now ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Great news again. Also not sure if anyone mentioned before but I read Wendy's are returning to the UK after 20 years away and creating 12,000 jobs over time. It America they are second only to McDonalds and do veggie food too" Great News. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . So as I stated Amazon pay employers tax and move their profits. They avoid U.K. tax on profits which would be considerably more than employees tax. . I can send an invoice from one country to another for “management services” and the profit is moved simply and effectively. Starbucks and Amazon move their profit to a more favourable tax regime country avoiding corporation tax in the U.K. as do JCB. It’s all get and we let them get away with it. The EU were going after these loopholes which is why tax exiles in the U.K. backed Brexit. " Individual EU countries created these loopholes. The EU has limited success in shutting them down. Surely a united EU could just settle on a standard 20% corperation tax rate across the bloc? Should be easier now the tax avoidance king, Jean-Claude Juncker, has gone! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The 10,000 jobs headline looks excellent. What I'd like to know is what happens in the longer term when the Amazon operation becomes more and more automated? We already know that Amazon are pioneering unmanned drone delivery, the driverless car isn't too far off (leading to driverless vans and trucks eventually), warehouse systems requiring less and less person power to operate and their Amazon grocery stores are going to finish off the job started by asda, tesco etc to kill off the local butcher, baker and candlestick maker. I'm not sure it's such a great thing for town and village centres to become empty and boarded up....I used to enjoy spending Saturday afternoons buying my vinyl, cd's, clothes and tonnes of other shit I didn't really need....but it was a chance to socialize and interact with other people. I guess now all we need to do is stay home all day and wait for the robot with the brown box to arrive with more landfill fodder produced in China." It's a good point. And it's quite hypocritical as they obviously provide an excellent service but I agree,what happens in the long term? Obvs however this means you are a remoaner and something about the eu. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Jackal once again knocking it out of the park
If a company is making money here they should pay the appreciate amount of tax,which,should,go towards public services.
Why anyone would find excuses for not doing that is bizarre, but not unsurprising."And once again you are talking complete bollocks! For the year ended 31 December 2019, Amazon UK Services Ltd paid £6.3 million corporation tax. The complete tax computation is included in the notes to the accounts. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The 10,000 jobs headline looks excellent. What I'd like to know is what happens in the longer term when the Amazon operation becomes more and more automated? We already know that Amazon are pioneering unmanned drone delivery, the driverless car isn't too far off (leading to driverless vans and trucks eventually), warehouse systems requiring less and less person power to operate and their Amazon grocery stores are going to finish off the job started by asda, tesco etc to kill off the local butcher, baker and candlestick maker. I'm not sure it's such a great thing for town and village centres to become empty and boarded up....I used to enjoy spending Saturday afternoons buying my vinyl, cd's, clothes and tonnes of other shit I didn't really need....but it was a chance to socialize and interact with other people. I guess now all we need to do is stay home all day and wait for the robot with the brown box to arrive with more landfill fodder produced in China. It's a good point. And it's quite hypocritical as they obviously provide an excellent service but I agree,what happens in the long term? Obvs however this means you are a remoaner and something about the eu." Couldn't give a fiddler's fuck about the EU....in or out...doesn't matter a damn. Globalism is rife and mega corps like Amazon are going to be the enablers and only winners. Amazon service is pretty good in so far as getting an item to your door. REAL service is popping to a local outlet, browsing, meeting people, having a face to face chat with a real human, exchanging cash for goods and services and keeping the local high street alive. As a proud merseysider you know the importance of local community and local interaction | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"used to have milk men and farmers milk, supermarkets beat the shit out of them.... amazon will do same with virtually every product if we arent careful.... we wont be... world full of morons!" You are right not just supermarkets petrol stations too but times do move on people rightly or wrongly want an easy life,try getting some food delivered on a Saturday night 50 years ago. Its people who drive the market and if people didn't use it,it would not exist. On the bright side milkmen seem to be making a comeback. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"used to have milk men and farmers milk, supermarkets beat the shit out of them.... amazon will do same with virtually every product if we arent careful.... we wont be... world full of morons!" . We used to have tractors with no cabs and people had to drive them in freezing temperatures . No roll brs either so your life was at risk . Society has moved on in a positive way . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"used to have milk men and farmers milk, supermarkets beat the shit out of them.... amazon will do same with virtually every product if we arent careful.... we wont be... world full of morons!. We used to have tractors with no cabs and people had to drive them in freezing temperatures . No roll brs either so your life was at risk . Society has moved on in a positive way . " Now I have to watch Monty Python lol. 'You were lucky!' | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . So as I stated Amazon pay employers tax and move their profits. They avoid U.K. tax on profits which would be considerably more than employees tax. . I can send an invoice from one country to another for “management services” and the profit is moved simply and effectively. Starbucks and Amazon move their profit to a more favourable tax regime country avoiding corporation tax in the U.K. as do JCB. It’s all get and we let them get away with it. The EU were going after these loopholes which is why tax exiles in the U.K. backed Brexit. However whilst you can raise an invoice to transfer profits from one country to another, unless the charge can be fully substantiated HMRC may simply add it back for the purposes of a corporation tax calculation. This is an area that HMRC would look at very carefully as it is potentially tax avoidance. In addition , were you to do such a transfer your reported profits in the UK would be lower and should a company have borrowings it might potentially put them into breach of various covenants relating to bank borrowings . Do you actually think £500m is a reasonable admin fee for JCB to charge for the owners service ? That’s what they transferred to Luxembourg . This procedure happens daily and we let it happen. Why is Ireland so prosperous GDP wise and no new jobs or factories ?? The big corporations transfer funds daily and HMRC do nothing. At least the French have had a go at the likes of Facebook! Our MP’s are usually on the payroll of JCB. Saying it’s avoidance is correct it is and it’s legal. " . Hello . The management charge to which you refer would appear to represent about 13 % of JCBs world wide turnover . You cannot just simply invent a management charge in order to reduce tax . They have to be fully justified and will be benchmarked against other organisations by HMRC . While the article below is quite dated , the contribution of JCB to the UK economy is very significant . JCB announces record results as turnover hits £4.1 billion (but warns overseas market has now stalled) Staffordshire-based JCB commissioned economic research consultancy Oxford Economics to assess the company’s economic contribution to the UK, the West Midlands and Staffordshire. Using JCB’s 2011 financial results as the basis for their analysis, Oxford Economics came to some interesting conclusions: •JCB’s direct contribution to GDP was £414 million. JCB’s supply chain, its R&D activities and total spending by employees (direct & indirect) in the wider economy generated a further £996 million of GDP, making the overall contribution in excess of £1.4 billion. •JCB’s direct contribution to the Exchequer was £145 million in business taxes paid by the company and in income taxes paid by JCB employees. A further £400 million is generated indirectly through the supply chain, which means that total tax revenues are £545 million. •For every full-time JCB employee in the UK (6,000 in total), another three employees (18,000 in total) are engaged elsewhere in its UK supply chain to support JCB’s activities. This means that the company supports 24,000 jobs in the UK. •JCB’s export revenues of £1.35 billion make a positive contribution to the UK’s trade balance with the company accounting for 0.6% of all manufactured goods exported. •JCB spends £669 million on goods and services on its UK-based supply chain, of which £225m (38%) is spent in the West Midlands, with £105m (16% of the total) spent in Staffordshire. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I can’t blame Amazon for paying low tax, given the choice of arranging your affairs to pay less in a legal manner, that’s what you’ll do. Jobs have been slashed at HMRC so now they only go after the little guys not major corporations, and a big drive behind Brexit was to avoid the EUs crackdown on abusive tax arrangements. As for jobs, great but they’re generally low quality minimum wage jobs, which rely heavily on immigrant labour as there aren’t enough people desperate enough in the UK to fill the vacancies." I'm sure our decision to leave was absolutely nothing to do with the eu crackdown Perish the thought. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I can’t blame Amazon for paying low tax, given the choice of arranging your affairs to pay less in a legal manner, that’s what you’ll do. Jobs have been slashed at HMRC so now they only go after the little guys not major corporations, and a big drive behind Brexit was to avoid the EUs crackdown on abusive tax arrangements. As for jobs, great but they’re generally low quality minimum wage jobs, which rely heavily on immigrant labour as there aren’t enough people desperate enough in the UK to fill the vacancies. I'm sure our decision to leave was absolutely nothing to do with the eu crackdown Perish the thought." I hardly think that 17.4 million people in the uk were worried about an eu crackdown which if they move at their usual pace probably wont happen in their lifetime anyway. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I can’t blame Amazon for paying low tax, given the choice of arranging your affairs to pay less in a legal manner, that’s what you’ll do. Jobs have been slashed at HMRC so now they only go after the little guys not major corporations, and a big drive behind Brexit was to avoid the EUs crackdown on abusive tax arrangements. As for jobs, great but they’re generally low quality minimum wage jobs, which rely heavily on immigrant labour as there aren’t enough people desperate enough in the UK to fill the vacancies. I'm sure our decision to leave was absolutely nothing to do with the eu crackdown Perish the thought.I hardly think that 17.4 million people in the uk were worried about an eu crackdown which if they move at their usual pace probably wont happen in their lifetime anyway. "Well obviously it wasn’t high on the minds of voters, but it was high on the minds of those funding the leave campaign, and the newspapers that supported it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I can’t blame Amazon for paying low tax, given the choice of arranging your affairs to pay less in a legal manner, that’s what you’ll do. Jobs have been slashed at HMRC so now they only go after the little guys not major corporations, and a big drive behind Brexit was to avoid the EUs crackdown on abusive tax arrangements. As for jobs, great but they’re generally low quality minimum wage jobs, which rely heavily on immigrant labour as there aren’t enough people desperate enough in the UK to fill the vacancies. I'm sure our decision to leave was absolutely nothing to do with the eu crackdown Perish the thought.I hardly think that 17.4 million people in the uk were worried about an eu crackdown which if they move at their usual pace probably wont happen in their lifetime anyway.
Well obviously it wasn’t high on the minds of voters, but it was high on the minds of those funding the leave campaign, and the newspapers that supported it."You would have thought that was clear wouldnt you? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I can’t blame Amazon for paying low tax, given the choice of arranging your affairs to pay less in a legal manner, that’s what you’ll do. Jobs have been slashed at HMRC so now they only go after the little guys not major corporations, and a big drive behind Brexit was to avoid the EUs crackdown on abusive tax arrangements. As for jobs, great but they’re generally low quality minimum wage jobs, which rely heavily on immigrant labour as there aren’t enough people desperate enough in the UK to fill the vacancies. I'm sure our decision to leave was absolutely nothing to do with the eu crackdown Perish the thought.I hardly think that 17.4 million people in the uk were worried about an eu crackdown which if they move at their usual pace probably wont happen in their lifetime anyway.
Well obviously it wasn’t high on the minds of voters, but it was high on the minds of those funding the leave campaign, and the newspapers that supported it."Was it though or just what you would like to believe ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I can’t blame Amazon for paying low tax, given the choice of arranging your affairs to pay less in a legal manner, that’s what you’ll do. Jobs have been slashed at HMRC so now they only go after the little guys not major corporations, and a big drive behind Brexit was to avoid the EUs crackdown on abusive tax arrangements. As for jobs, great but they’re generally low quality minimum wage jobs, which rely heavily on immigrant labour as there aren’t enough people desperate enough in the UK to fill the vacancies. I'm sure our decision to leave was absolutely nothing to do with the eu crackdown Perish the thought.I hardly think that 17.4 million people in the uk were worried about an eu crackdown which if they move at their usual pace probably wont happen in their lifetime anyway.
Well obviously it wasn’t high on the minds of voters, but it was high on the minds of those funding the leave campaign, and the newspapers that supported it.Was it though or just what you would like to believe ?"No one can ever know another's motivation. It just suits the agenda to assume so. Let's face it, The EU are losing tax cases left right and centre anyway so it makes no difference | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . So as I stated Amazon pay employers tax and move their profits. They avoid U.K. tax on profits which would be considerably more than employees tax. . I can send an invoice from one country to another for “management services” and the profit is moved simply and effectively. Starbucks and Amazon move their profit to a more favourable tax regime country avoiding corporation tax in the U.K. as do JCB. It’s all get and we let them get away with it. The EU were going after these loopholes which is why tax exiles in the U.K. backed Brexit. However whilst you can raise an invoice to transfer profits from one country to another, unless the charge can be fully substantiated HMRC may simply add it back for the purposes of a corporation tax calculation. This is an area that HMRC would look at very carefully as it is potentially tax avoidance. In addition , were you to do such a transfer your reported profits in the UK would be lower and should a company have borrowings it might potentially put them into breach of various covenants relating to bank borrowings . Do you actually think £500m is a reasonable admin fee for JCB to charge for the owners service ? That’s what they transferred to Luxembourg . This procedure happens daily and we let it happen. Why is Ireland so prosperous GDP wise and no new jobs or factories ?? The big corporations transfer funds daily and HMRC do nothing. At least the French have had a go at the likes of Facebook! Our MP’s are usually on the payroll of JCB. Saying it’s avoidance is correct it is and it’s legal. So one minute you are telling us the uk left because the eu are going after these loopholes and the next breath they are transfering to Luxenbourg and Ireland, you do realise these companies are IN the eu? "Yes and the EU want to stop it so they pay the tax in the country concerned . They are making efforts to stop it but the U.K. isn’t. JCB then transfer the money from Luxembourg to the British Virgin Islands where it is paid into a trust. The trust is established to provide income for the two brothers who own JCB tax free. Good isn’t it! If the EU had their way then any tax due on profits would be paid into our very own HMRC. Over £300Billion goes through London to such schemes every year. All perfectly legal. Remember that when you pay your full tax and council tax and VAT etc . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"used to have milk men and farmers milk, supermarkets beat the shit out of them.... amazon will do same with virtually every product if we arent careful.... we wont be... world full of morons!You are right not just supermarkets petrol stations too but times do move on people rightly or wrongly want an easy life,try getting some food delivered on a Saturday night 50 years ago. Its people who drive the market and if people didn't use it,it would not exist. On the bright side milkmen seem to be making a comeback. "yes fat greedy people can now get food at anytime of day or night like nature intended, they dont have to move or burn any calories... brilliant lol and thats the sort of progress that has hospitals full of patients lol we are progressing to what exactly? when they do surveys it seems people are getting less and less happy even though they now live longer and in better conditions! why is that? perhaps we are progressing towards a nanny cycle helmet wearing robotic existence? i am not a number! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . So as I stated Amazon pay employers tax and move their profits. They avoid U.K. tax on profits which would be considerably more than employees tax. . I can send an invoice from one country to another for “management services” and the profit is moved simply and effectively. Starbucks and Amazon move their profit to a more favourable tax regime country avoiding corporation tax in the U.K. as do JCB. It’s all get and we let them get away with it. The EU were going after these loopholes which is why tax exiles in the U.K. backed Brexit. However whilst you can raise an invoice to transfer profits from one country to another, unless the charge can be fully substantiated HMRC may simply add it back for the purposes of a corporation tax calculation. This is an area that HMRC would look at very carefully as it is potentially tax avoidance. In addition , were you to do such a transfer your reported profits in the UK would be lower and should a company have borrowings it might potentially put them into breach of various covenants relating to bank borrowings . Do you actually think £500m is a reasonable admin fee for JCB to charge for the owners service ? That’s what they transferred to Luxembourg . This procedure happens daily and we let it happen. Why is Ireland so prosperous GDP wise and no new jobs or factories ?? The big corporations transfer funds daily and HMRC do nothing. At least the French have had a go at the likes of Facebook! Our MP’s are usually on the payroll of JCB. Saying it’s avoidance is correct it is and it’s legal. So one minute you are telling us the uk left because the eu are going after these loopholes and the next breath they are transfering to Luxenbourg and Ireland, you do realise these companies are IN the eu?
Yes and the EU want to stop it so they pay the tax in the country concerned . They are making efforts to stop it but the U.K. isn’t.
JCB then transfer the money from Luxembourg to the British Virgin Islands where it is paid into a trust. The trust is established to provide income for the two brothers who own JCB tax free. Good isn’t it! If the EU had their way then any tax due on profits would be paid into our very own HMRC. Over £300Billion goes through London to such schemes every year. All perfectly legal. Remember that when you pay your full tax and council tax and VAT etc . ". I thought that if any money from a trust was transferred back to the UK you would be taxed in any event . Any rational person takes steps to minimise their tax liability. JCB should not be any different. A significant number of people receive relief on pension contributions which probably saves the country money in the long term as the subsequent income from a pension means that they will be less likely to be reliant on state funds in old age. If we start chasing these companies for too much tax , they might simply move their operations elsewhere and we would then all be losers . Companies exist to provide a service to the end consumer. The fact that some companies manage to pay no Corporation Tax means that they are probably providing an excellent value for money service to the end user. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Any good news will be shot down on here by remainers it does not fit with their belief that the uk can do well outside the eu even though their beloved eu knew that it could hence making it as hard as possible to leave." Of all the threads started on here, I just can’t understand why it would be Remainers complaining about Amazon and connecting it to Brexit?? This is about a multi-national that uses creative accounting to limit its U.K. profits and pay less CT in the U.K. than would a U.K. domiciled entity. Personally, I would have thought that the Brexit supporting factions would be demanding that Amazon pay more tax to offset the job losses and evaporations of U.K. based Hight street traders. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"And there we have it - all perfectly legal. Imagine having to pay a speeding fine at twice the rate of everyone else just because someone else 'thinks' you should. "Yeah but this is more like ordinary people have to pay fines but super wealthy don’t have to. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"And there we have it - all perfectly legal. Imagine having to pay a speeding fine at twice the rate of everyone else just because someone else 'thinks' you should.
Yeah but this is more like ordinary people have to pay fines but super wealthy don’t have to. "As a Pet theory, yes. But as a legality No. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! So there can never be good news on jobs then, very sad day. Personally I thought job creation was good but reading your post that seems very difficult. You say you would be happy if its a factory making stuff but does that not have the same problem. For instance if a new factory opened making ovens then everyone they sold would be one less for the other factories making ovens so we have the same situation. If we are selling ovens in the U.K. , exporting ovens and no longer importing ovens and there is a spins off supply chain jobs created it’s a win win. There a difference . Importing crap and selling it doesn’t great U.K. jobs. The market doesn’t grow as additional jobs aren’t created . The cheaper things get the lower the pay becomes the less people have to spend . " I was using your example with the burgers from Wendy's. If one company sets up in the UK to make ovens then it affects the current oven making companies in the UK making ovens so bad news despite thousands of jobs created. I still weirdly think its good news but that's just me. Speaking of Wendy's in their statement they say they are returning to the UK and then into Europe eventually. When they go to Europe will it be bad news for them too. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . So as I stated Amazon pay employers tax and move their profits. They avoid U.K. tax on profits which would be considerably more than employees tax. . I can send an invoice from one country to another for “management services” and the profit is moved simply and effectively. Starbucks and Amazon move their profit to a more favourable tax regime country avoiding corporation tax in the U.K. as do JCB. It’s all get and we let them get away with it. The EU were going after these loopholes which is why tax exiles in the U.K. backed Brexit. However whilst you can raise an invoice to transfer profits from one country to another, unless the charge can be fully substantiated HMRC may simply add it back for the purposes of a corporation tax calculation. This is an area that HMRC would look at very carefully as it is potentially tax avoidance. In addition , were you to do such a transfer your reported profits in the UK would be lower and should a company have borrowings it might potentially put them into breach of various covenants relating to bank borrowings . Do you actually think £500m is a reasonable admin fee for JCB to charge for the owners service ? That’s what they transferred to Luxembourg . This procedure happens daily and we let it happen. Why is Ireland so prosperous GDP wise and no new jobs or factories ?? The big corporations transfer funds daily and HMRC do nothing. At least the French have had a go at the likes of Facebook! Our MP’s are usually on the payroll of JCB. Saying it’s avoidance is correct it is and it’s legal. . Hello . The management charge to which you refer would appear to represent about 13 % of JCBs world wide turnover . You cannot just simply invent a management charge in order to reduce tax . They have to be fully justified and will be benchmarked against other organisations by HMRC . While the article below is quite dated , the contribution of JCB to the UK economy is very significant . JCB announces record results as turnover hits £4.1 billion (but warns overseas market has now stalled) Staffordshire-based JCB commissioned economic research consultancy Oxford Economics to assess the company’s economic contribution to the UK, the West Midlands and Staffordshire. Using JCB’s 2011 financial results as the basis for their analysis, Oxford Economics came to some interesting conclusions: •JCB’s direct contribution to GDP was £414 million. JCB’s supply chain, its R&D activities and total spending by employees (direct & indirect) in the wider economy generated a further £996 million of GDP, making the overall contribution in excess of £1.4 billion. •JCB’s direct contribution to the Exchequer was £145 million in business taxes paid by the company and in income taxes paid by JCB employees. A further £400 million is generated indirectly through the supply chain, which means that total tax revenues are £545 million. •For every full-time JCB employee in the UK (6,000 in total), another three employees (18,000 in total) are engaged elsewhere in its UK supply chain to support JCB’s activities. This means that the company supports 24,000 jobs in the UK. •JCB’s export revenues of £1.35 billion make a positive contribution to the UK’s trade balance with the company accounting for 0.6% of all manufactured goods exported. •JCB spends £669 million on goods and services on its UK-based supply chain, of which £225m (38%) is spent in the West Midlands, with £105m (16% of the total) spent in Staffordshire. " The business is a roaring success and I am delighted . I would be more delighted is tne you’d their fair share of tax. Lord Bamford takes money through his research company and that was then paid through to his trust. Dividends paid to his holding company in the car to wan are taxed at a lower rate than anywhere in the eu. The Panama papers exposed his hidden wealth and the island was threatened with sanctions by the EU if it continued to help hide money from tax. They are closing the loophole . Result Bamford has moved Billions out of the islands to Switzerland to be hidden from view. The tax avoidance scheme is in the public domain as the brothers fought in court over ownership of JCB . The Luxembourg shell company was revealed in that court case . It’s all in the public domain as it’s legal!! I’m not disputing the success of JCB they are a roaring success and its positive for the U.K. but all the U.K. staff pay full tax, your £145m figure probably and yet the best paid man himself doesn’t . If an employee gets a pay rise he pays more tax and you would accept that as only right. Why then is it ok for other to get massive extra payments and pay nothing?? I only want them to lay standard rates like everyone nothing punitive. The owner of the Daily Mail a massive supporter of Brexit has a similar trust arrangement. Are you getting the point?? I’ll say the figure again £300 Billion actually recorded through London. Hidden is guessed at three to five times as much according to the world bank. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . So as I stated Amazon pay employers tax and move their profits. They avoid U.K. tax on profits which would be considerably more than employees tax. . I can send an invoice from one country to another for “management services” and the profit is moved simply and effectively. Starbucks and Amazon move their profit to a more favourable tax regime country avoiding corporation tax in the U.K. as do JCB. It’s all get and we let them get away with it. The EU were going after these loopholes which is why tax exiles in the U.K. backed Brexit. However whilst you can raise an invoice to transfer profits from one country to another, unless the charge can be fully substantiated HMRC may simply add it back for the purposes of a corporation tax calculation. This is an area that HMRC would look at very carefully as it is potentially tax avoidance. In addition , were you to do such a transfer your reported profits in the UK would be lower and should a company have borrowings it might potentially put them into breach of various covenants relating to bank borrowings . Do you actually think £500m is a reasonable admin fee for JCB to charge for the owners service ? That’s what they transferred to Luxembourg . This procedure happens daily and we let it happen. Why is Ireland so prosperous GDP wise and no new jobs or factories ?? The big corporations transfer funds daily and HMRC do nothing. At least the French have had a go at the likes of Facebook! Our MP’s are usually on the payroll of JCB. Saying it’s avoidance is correct it is and it’s legal. So one minute you are telling us the uk left because the eu are going after these loopholes and the next breath they are transfering to Luxenbourg and Ireland, you do realise these companies are IN the eu?
Yes and the EU want to stop it so they pay the tax in the country concerned . They are making efforts to stop it but the U.K. isn’t.
JCB then transfer the money from Luxembourg to the British Virgin Islands where it is paid into a trust. The trust is established to provide income for the two brothers who own JCB tax free. Good isn’t it! If the EU had their way then any tax due on profits would be paid into our very own HMRC. Over £300Billion goes through London to such schemes every year. All perfectly legal. Remember that when you pay your full tax and council tax and VAT etc . . I thought that if any money from a trust was transferred back to the UK you would be taxed in any event . Any rational person takes steps to minimise their tax liability. JCB should not be any different. A significant number of people receive relief on pension contributions which probably saves the country money in the long term as the subsequent income from a pension means that they will be less likely to be reliant on state funds in old age.
If we start chasing these companies for too much tax , they might simply move their operations elsewhere and we would then all be losers .
Companies exist to provide a service to the end consumer. The fact that some companies manage to pay no Corporation Tax means that they are probably providing an excellent value for money service to the end user. "Of all the nonsensical things posted on here that just about tops the lot. On the one hand you champion profitability because profitable companies have higher share values and in the next breath you suggest that non-profitable companies would be providing good value to customers (bit of course their share price would suffer). Talking about JCB, any comments as to why Boris Johnson uses the JCB helicopter as a personal taxi? I wonder how much he pays to use it lol? With a normal operating cost of about £1,200 per hour, I am sure he would have chipped in don’t you? Wouldn’t like to think it was choppers for favours. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Any good news will be shot down on here by remainers it does not fit with their belief that the uk can do well outside the eu even though their beloved eu knew that it could hence making it as hard as possible to leave. Of all the threads started on here, I just can’t understand why it would be Remainers complaining about Amazon and connecting it to Brexit?? This is about a multi-national that uses creative accounting to limit its U.K. profits and pay less CT in the U.K. than would a U.K. domiciled entity. Personally, I would have thought that the Brexit supporting factions would be demanding that Amazon pay more tax to offset the job losses and evaporations of U.K. based Hight street traders." Logic doesn't come onto it I'm afraid. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . So as I stated Amazon pay employers tax and move their profits. They avoid U.K. tax on profits which would be considerably more than employees tax. . I can send an invoice from one country to another for “management services” and the profit is moved simply and effectively. Starbucks and Amazon move their profit to a more favourable tax regime country avoiding corporation tax in the U.K. as do JCB. It’s all get and we let them get away with it. The EU were going after these loopholes which is why tax exiles in the U.K. backed Brexit. However whilst you can raise an invoice to transfer profits from one country to another, unless the charge can be fully substantiated HMRC may simply add it back for the purposes of a corporation tax calculation. This is an area that HMRC would look at very carefully as it is potentially tax avoidance. In addition , were you to do such a transfer your reported profits in the UK would be lower and should a company have borrowings it might potentially put them into breach of various covenants relating to bank borrowings . Do you actually think £500m is a reasonable admin fee for JCB to charge for the owners service ? That’s what they transferred to Luxembourg . This procedure happens daily and we let it happen. Why is Ireland so prosperous GDP wise and no new jobs or factories ?? The big corporations transfer funds daily and HMRC do nothing. At least the French have had a go at the likes of Facebook! Our MP’s are usually on the payroll of JCB. Saying it’s avoidance is correct it is and it’s legal. So one minute you are telling us the uk left because the eu are going after these loopholes and the next breath they are transfering to Luxenbourg and Ireland, you do realise these companies are IN the eu?
Yes and the EU want to stop it so they pay the tax in the country concerned . They are making efforts to stop it but the U.K. isn’t.
JCB then transfer the money from Luxembourg to the British Virgin Islands where it is paid into a trust. The trust is established to provide income for the two brothers who own JCB tax free. Good isn’t it! If the EU had their way then any tax due on profits would be paid into our very own HMRC. Over £300Billion goes through London to such schemes every year. All perfectly legal. Remember that when you pay your full tax and council tax and VAT etc . . I thought that if any money from a trust was transferred back to the UK you would be taxed in any event . Any rational person takes steps to minimise their tax liability. JCB should not be any different. A significant number of people receive relief on pension contributions which probably saves the country money in the long term as the subsequent income from a pension means that they will be less likely to be reliant on state funds in old age.
If we start chasing these companies for too much tax , they might simply move their operations elsewhere and we would then all be losers .
Companies exist to provide a service to the end consumer. The fact that some companies manage to pay no Corporation Tax means that they are probably providing an excellent value for money service to the end user.
Of all the nonsensical things posted on here that just about tops the lot.
On the one hand you champion profitability because profitable companies have higher share values and in the next breath you suggest that non-profitable companies would be providing good value to customers (bit of course their share price would suffer).
Talking about JCB, any comments as to why Boris Johnson uses the JCB helicopter as a personal taxi? I wonder how much he pays to use it lol? With a normal operating cost of about £1,200 per hour, I am sure he would have chipped in don’t you? Wouldn’t like to think it was choppers for favours.". Hi. I do not think you need worry too much about profitability and the Amazon share price. As at 26 June 2016 the price was 698.96 and on April 30 th 3222.90 . That is an increase of at least four fold which is great news for many UK residents who either hold shares in Amazon or hold pension funds which invest in these shares . It seems to me that everyone is a winner here. The end user who gets excellent value for money and shareholders or pension funds seeing significant increases in the value of their investments. I cannot see companies such as Clipper Logistics having any concerns about the success of Amazon. Amazons succes is their success. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The 10,000 jobs headline looks excellent. What I'd like to know is what happens in the longer term when the Amazon operation becomes more and more automated? We already know that Amazon are pioneering unmanned drone delivery, the driverless car isn't too far off (leading to driverless vans and trucks eventually), warehouse systems requiring less and less person power to operate and their Amazon grocery stores are going to finish off the job started by asda, tesco etc to kill off the local butcher, baker and candlestick maker. I'm not sure it's such a great thing for town and village centres to become empty and boarded up....I used to enjoy spending Saturday afternoons buying my vinyl, cd's, clothes and tonnes of other shit I didn't really need....but it was a chance to socialize and interact with other people. I guess now all we need to do is stay home all day and wait for the robot with the brown box to arrive with more landfill fodder produced in China. It's a good point. And it's quite hypocritical as they obviously provide an excellent service but I agree,what happens in the long term? Obvs however this means you are a remoaner and something about the eu." ot doesn’t mean that Lionel it’s a good point but that is the future people adapt they have to you have to look forwards not backwards | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Any good news will be shot down on here by remainers it does not fit with their belief that the uk can do well outside the eu even though their beloved eu knew that it could hence making it as hard as possible to leave. Of all the threads started on here, I just can’t understand why it would be Remainers complaining about Amazon and connecting it to Brexit?? This is about a multi-national that uses creative accounting to limit its U.K. profits and pay less CT in the U.K. than would a U.K. domiciled entity. Personally, I would have thought that the Brexit supporting factions would be demanding that Amazon pay more tax to offset the job losses and evaporations of U.K. based Hight street traders." What creative accounting does Amazon use to limit its UK profits that is peculiar to Amazon and not other multi National companies? Similarly, will British domiciled companies that have overseas subsidiary companies not also employ such techniques to mitigate their overseas tax? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . So as I stated Amazon pay employers tax and move their profits. They avoid U.K. tax on profits which would be considerably more than employees tax. . I can send an invoice from one country to another for “management services” and the profit is moved simply and effectively. Starbucks and Amazon move their profit to a more favourable tax regime country avoiding corporation tax in the U.K. as do JCB. It’s all get and we let them get away with it. The EU were going after these loopholes which is why tax exiles in the U.K. backed Brexit. However whilst you can raise an invoice to transfer profits from one country to another, unless the charge can be fully substantiated HMRC may simply add it back for the purposes of a corporation tax calculation. This is an area that HMRC would look at very carefully as it is potentially tax avoidance. In addition , were you to do such a transfer your reported profits in the UK would be lower and should a company have borrowings it might potentially put them into breach of various covenants relating to bank borrowings . Do you actually think £500m is a reasonable admin fee for JCB to charge for the owners service ? That’s what they transferred to Luxembourg . This procedure happens daily and we let it happen. Why is Ireland so prosperous GDP wise and no new jobs or factories ?? The big corporations transfer funds daily and HMRC do nothing. At least the French have had a go at the likes of Facebook! Our MP’s are usually on the payroll of JCB. Saying it’s avoidance is correct it is and it’s legal. So one minute you are telling us the uk left because the eu are going after these loopholes and the next breath they are transfering to Luxenbourg and Ireland, you do realise these companies are IN the eu?
Yes and the EU want to stop it so they pay the tax in the country concerned . They are making efforts to stop it but the U.K. isn’t.
JCB then transfer the money from Luxembourg to the British Virgin Islands where it is paid into a trust. The trust is established to provide income for the two brothers who own JCB tax free. Good isn’t it! If the EU had their way then any tax due on profits would be paid into our very own HMRC. Over £300Billion goes through London to such schemes every year. All perfectly legal. Remember that when you pay your full tax and council tax and VAT etc . . I thought that if any money from a trust was transferred back to the UK you would be taxed in any event . Any rational person takes steps to minimise their tax liability. JCB should not be any different. A significant number of people receive relief on pension contributions which probably saves the country money in the long term as the subsequent income from a pension means that they will be less likely to be reliant on state funds in old age.
If we start chasing these companies for too much tax , they might simply move their operations elsewhere and we would then all be losers .
Companies exist to provide a service to the end consumer. The fact that some companies manage to pay no Corporation Tax means that they are probably providing an excellent value for money service to the end user.
Of all the nonsensical things posted on here that just about tops the lot.
On the one hand you champion profitability because profitable companies have higher share values and in the next breath you suggest that non-profitable companies would be providing good value to customers (bit of course their share price would suffer).
Talking about JCB, any comments as to why Boris Johnson uses the JCB helicopter as a personal taxi? I wonder how much he pays to use it lol? With a normal operating cost of about £1,200 per hour, I am sure he would have chipped in don’t you? Wouldn’t like to think it was choppers for favours."Perhaps because it's cheaper than airforce 1? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. However it is correct to say that Amazon and Google do pay all tax due. The end consumer is only interested in the cost of the product, not how much Corporation tax a company pays . You cannot just shift profits around as you please. All legislation has to be complied with and in any event you will be taxed in the country to which you transfer profits. In any event most people would expect their employer to take action in order to minimise the amount of Corporation Tax that their employer pays . So as I stated Amazon pay employers tax and move their profits. They avoid U.K. tax on profits which would be considerably more than employees tax. . I can send an invoice from one country to another for “management services” and the profit is moved simply and effectively. Starbucks and Amazon move their profit to a more favourable tax regime country avoiding corporation tax in the U.K. as do JCB. It’s all get and we let them get away with it. The EU were going after these loopholes which is why tax exiles in the U.K. backed Brexit. However whilst you can raise an invoice to transfer profits from one country to another, unless the charge can be fully substantiated HMRC may simply add it back for the purposes of a corporation tax calculation. This is an area that HMRC would look at very carefully as it is potentially tax avoidance. In addition , were you to do such a transfer your reported profits in the UK would be lower and should a company have borrowings it might potentially put them into breach of various covenants relating to bank borrowings . Do you actually think £500m is a reasonable admin fee for JCB to charge for the owners service ? That’s what they transferred to Luxembourg . This procedure happens daily and we let it happen. Why is Ireland so prosperous GDP wise and no new jobs or factories ?? The big corporations transfer funds daily and HMRC do nothing. At least the French have had a go at the likes of Facebook! Our MP’s are usually on the payroll of JCB. Saying it’s avoidance is correct it is and it’s legal. So one minute you are telling us the uk left because the eu are going after these loopholes and the next breath they are transfering to Luxenbourg and Ireland, you do realise these companies are IN the eu?
Yes and the EU want to stop it so they pay the tax in the country concerned . They are making efforts to stop it but the U.K. isn’t.
JCB then transfer the money from Luxembourg to the British Virgin Islands where it is paid into a trust. The trust is established to provide income for the two brothers who own JCB tax free. Good isn’t it! If the EU had their way then any tax due on profits would be paid into our very own HMRC. Over £300Billion goes through London to such schemes every year. All perfectly legal. Remember that when you pay your full tax and council tax and VAT etc . . I thought that if any money from a trust was transferred back to the UK you would be taxed in any event . Any rational person takes steps to minimise their tax liability. JCB should not be any different. A significant number of people receive relief on pension contributions which probably saves the country money in the long term as the subsequent income from a pension means that they will be less likely to be reliant on state funds in old age.
If we start chasing these companies for too much tax , they might simply move their operations elsewhere and we would then all be losers .
Companies exist to provide a service to the end consumer. The fact that some companies manage to pay no Corporation Tax means that they are probably providing an excellent value for money service to the end user.
Of all the nonsensical things posted on here that just about tops the lot.
On the one hand you champion profitability because profitable companies have higher share values and in the next breath you suggest that non-profitable companies would be providing good value to customers (bit of course their share price would suffer).
Talking about JCB, any comments as to why Boris Johnson uses the JCB helicopter as a personal taxi? I wonder how much he pays to use it lol? With a normal operating cost of about £1,200 per hour, I am sure he would have chipped in don’t you? Wouldn’t like to think it was choppers for favours.. Hi. I do not think you need worry too much about profitability and the Amazon share price. As at 26 June 2016 the price was 698.96 and on April 30 th 3222.90 . That is an increase of at least four fold which is great news for many UK residents who either hold shares in Amazon or hold pension funds which invest in these shares .
It seems to me that everyone is a winner here. The end user who gets excellent value for money and shareholders or pension funds seeing significant increases in the value of their investments.
I cannot see companies such as Clipper Logistics having any concerns about the success of Amazon. Amazons succes is their success. "Funny you should mention Clipper .... already a huge hub just off the A19 at Wynyard (Teesside, on the road to Hartlepool )
Guess where another new Amazon FC is going to be built....
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000." "Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax"They do…you know ….pay tax! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax They do…you know ….pay tax! " Yup all those legal bits . . . you know. . . Where they have to pay tax . . . They do! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax". Hi. I think that further up in the thread someone has disclosed their corporation tax charge. They have even referred to the relevant note in the accounts . You can always download a copy of the published accounts if you want to check for yourself | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax! "The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? "Check out the accounts, they are available at Companies House | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? "Legally. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? "Thee are various reasons as to why companies pay little or no corporation tax . The data below relates to the USA Amazon’s recent decision to pull HQ2 out of New York City has reignited an older debate about why the company pays “no taxes.” One graphic, for example, produced by data journalist Mona Chalabi and subsequently reshared by House member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez among many others, shows two superimposed graphs comparing Amazon’s quickly growing profit next to its negligible taxes over the last nine years. The comparison is striking. And also misleading. As one of today's most influential economists, Tyler Cowen, wrote on his site Marginal Revolution, “When it comes to the discussion surrounding Amazon and taxes, I can only sigh….” What Is The Purpose Of A Tax? First, a quick look at Amazon’s financial statements shows it does pay taxes. In 2017, Amazon paid close to $1 billion in income tax. In 2018, the amount jumped to $1.18 billion, accounting for local, state, and international taxes. Amazon pays plenty in terms of payroll taxes and also state and local taxes. Nor should you forget the taxes paid by Amazon’s employees on their wages. Not only is that direct revenue to various levels of government, but the incidence of those taxes falls somewhat on Amazon, which now must pay higher wages to offset the tax burden faced by their employees," Cowen adds. It is true that in the last two years, Amazon did not pay federal taxes. (It's odd to think I paid more federal tax last year than Amazon did.) But before yelling partiality, it is worth understanding why. A more thorough examination of the underlying economics demonstrates that only looking at Amazon's profits versus corporate taxes is too simplistic of a model. Instead, a good place to start is understanding economic incentives. Incentives, in laymen's terms, sound like free money. Incentives, to an economist, operate as a lever to generate a better result which offset the cost. Taxes are one such lever. But taxes are too often interpreted only by their first-order effect of generating revenue, rather than the second-order effect of stimulating economic activity. If you look at the Internal Revenue Code, as one CPA cites, less than 1% of it is dedicated to revenue generation. The majority, in fact, is on tax deductions. “There are only about 30 pages in the Code that actually raise revenue...[T]here are about 6,000 pages that tell you how to reduce taxes through tax deductions, tax credits and other incentives.” Tax deductions can be incorrectly categorized as “crony capitalism.” But tax deductions, tax credits, and other incentives act as an important driver for organizations to then stimulate economic activity, job creation, and innovation. Amazon's Tax Breaks And The Underlying Incentives There are three main drivers of Amazon's tax breaks: Investment in Research & Development. Amazon invests heavily in research and development and therefore benefits from the tax credit. In 2017, as Recode stated, Amazon topped the list of U.S. companies in R&D spend, at $22.6 billion. The next closest was Alphabet at $16.6 billion. Many of Amazon's innovations have been birthed from this investment. Investment in Property, Plant, and Equipment. Amazon’s investment in property, plant, and equipment also makes it eligible for tax credits. Cities can benefit from Amazon's investment in real estate and job creation (benefits New York City could have enjoyed). Amazon's PPE expenditure has steadily increased over the last five years, netting to approximately $60 billion as of the end of last year. Employee Stock Compensation. A move away from cash compensation to stock-based compensation for employees is the third driver of its tax breaks. Tax deductions increase as the stock increases. While this can certainly create adverse incentives, it is important to assess the benefits it creates relative to the cost. While such a tax policy can introduce misaligned management incentives, it also generates incentives for management to drive the best possible return for investors. Amazon largely pays no corporate tax precisely because it reinvests those profits into its operations. Under a scenario where Amazon had no corporate tax breaks, it would disincentive the company from reinvesting and thus creating greater opportunity for the businesses and cities in which it operates. Raising a pitchfork to fight Amazon's corporate tax breaks is fine if the argument is rooted in strong economic reasoning. The risk is that too often the data is pulled out of context, and inaccurate storylines circling that data gain momentum and undeservedly accelerate. The building impetus to tear down existing economic structures without a strong grounding in why the structures even exist could land us in a worse position. The question to address is not why Amazon pays no taxes, but under what tax structure could we be better off? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! So there can never be good news on jobs then, very sad day. Personally I thought job creation was good but reading your post that seems very difficult. You say you would be happy if its a factory making stuff but does that not have the same problem. For instance if a new factory opened making ovens then everyone they sold would be one less for the other factories making ovens so we have the same situation. If we are selling ovens in the U.K. , exporting ovens and no longer importing ovens and there is a spins off supply chain jobs created it’s a win win. There a difference . Importing crap and selling it doesn’t great U.K. jobs. The market doesn’t grow as additional jobs aren’t created . The cheaper things get the lower the pay becomes the less people have to spend . I was using your example with the burgers from Wendy's. If one company sets up in the UK to make ovens then it affects the current oven making companies in the UK making ovens so bad news despite thousands of jobs created. I still weirdly think its good news but that's just me. Speaking of Wendy's in their statement they say they are returning to the UK and then into Europe eventually. When they go to Europe will it be bad news for them too. " You only buy so many burgers to consume. It’s a finite limit of consumption. If you build ovens in the U.K. the source the steel the electric the heating element the packaging all from the U.K. it creates manufacturing jobs along the line. If you import an oven it employs the delivery driver for an hour and the online sales for 10 mins. Do you see the difference? The more numerous higher paid jobs are in another country where they male the oven. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"__________________________________ I bet there isn't a person here that would stop using Amazon as a protest to Tax issues. Or stop using their IPhone as a protest to Tax issues. Kick off you NIKE Trainers too . . . Don't use FedEx to send your parcels . . . Stop searching using Google . . . Don't drink Starbucks . .. Delete you account on FaceBook . . . Virgin anything ??? Forgot E-Bay! ________________________________" In one case , when a reporter undertook a survey on peoples views on taxation some replied that they were happy to pay more tax. Those who were willing to pay more tax were given the opportunity to put their desire into action when the surveyor handed them a form to complete which would be forwarded to HMRC asking them to collect additional tax from them . Not one of those who wanted to pay extra tax were prepared to sign the form . I suspect that many of those on here who would like taxation rates to be increased use every possible tax break available in order to reduce their own tax liability | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"__________________________________ I bet there isn't a person here that would stop using Amazon as a protest to Tax issues. Or stop using their IPhone as a protest to Tax issues. Kick off you NIKE Trainers too . . . Don't use FedEx to send your parcels . . . Stop searching using Google . . . Don't drink Starbucks . .. Delete you account on FaceBook . . . Virgin anything ??? Forgot E-Bay! ________________________________ In one case , when a reporter undertook a survey on peoples views on taxation some replied that they were happy to pay more tax. Those who were willing to pay more tax were given the opportunity to put their desire into action when the surveyor handed them a form to complete which would be forwarded to HMRC asking them to collect additional tax from them . Not one of those who wanted to pay extra tax were prepared to sign the form . I suspect that many of those on here who would like taxation rates to be increased use every possible tax break available in order to reduce their own tax liability " To a One. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"S'funny I pay tax when I get paid. I dont have a choice As do millions of others So everyone would avoid paying tax is not only factually incorrect it also boils down to..well they do it..why don't we?" Do you pay into a pension scheme.? If so you get a tax break. ? Do you claim your personal allowance? . You can always write to HMRC and ask them to remove these breaks if you think you do not want to claim them. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? Thee are various reasons as to why companies pay little or no corporation tax . The data below relates to the USA
Amazon’s recent decision to pull HQ2 out of New York City has reignited an older debate about why the company pays “no taxes.” One graphic, for example, produced by data journalist Mona Chalabi and subsequently reshared by House member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez among many others, shows two superimposed graphs comparing Amazon’s quickly growing profit next to its negligible taxes over the last nine years.
The comparison is striking. And also misleading. As one of today's most influential economists, Tyler Cowen, wrote on his site Marginal Revolution, “When it comes to the discussion surrounding Amazon and taxes, I can only sigh….”
What Is The Purpose Of A Tax?
First, a quick look at Amazon’s financial statements shows it does pay taxes. In 2017, Amazon paid close to $1 billion in income tax. In 2018, the amount jumped to $1.18 billion, accounting for local, state, and international taxes.
Amazon pays plenty in terms of payroll taxes and also state and local taxes. Nor should you forget the taxes paid by Amazon’s employees on their wages. Not only is that direct revenue to various levels of government, but the incidence of those taxes falls somewhat on Amazon, which now must pay higher wages to offset the tax burden faced by their employees," Cowen adds.
It is true that in the last two years, Amazon did not pay federal taxes. (It's odd to think I paid more federal tax last year than Amazon did.) But before yelling partiality, it is worth understanding why. A more thorough examination of the underlying economics demonstrates that only looking at Amazon's profits versus corporate taxes is too simplistic of a model.
Instead, a good place to start is understanding economic incentives. Incentives, in laymen's terms, sound like free money. Incentives, to an economist, operate as a lever to generate a better result which offset the cost. Taxes are one such lever. But taxes are too often interpreted only by their first-order effect of generating revenue, rather than the second-order effect of stimulating economic activity.
If you look at the Internal Revenue Code, as one CPA cites, less than 1% of it is dedicated to revenue generation. The majority, in fact, is on tax deductions. “There are only about 30 pages in the Code that actually raise revenue...[T]here are about 6,000 pages that tell you how to reduce taxes through tax deductions, tax credits and other incentives.”
Tax deductions can be incorrectly categorized as “crony capitalism.” But tax deductions, tax credits, and other incentives act as an important driver for organizations to then stimulate economic activity, job creation, and innovation.
Amazon's Tax Breaks And The Underlying Incentives
There are three main drivers of Amazon's tax breaks:
Investment in Research & Development. Amazon invests heavily in research and development and therefore benefits from the tax credit. In 2017, as Recode stated, Amazon topped the list of U.S. companies in R&D spend, at $22.6 billion. The next closest was Alphabet at $16.6 billion. Many of Amazon's innovations have been birthed from this investment.
Investment in Property, Plant, and Equipment. Amazon’s investment in property, plant, and equipment also makes it eligible for tax credits. Cities can benefit from Amazon's investment in real estate and job creation (benefits New York City could have enjoyed). Amazon's PPE expenditure has steadily increased over the last five years, netting to approximately $60 billion as of the end of last year.
Employee Stock Compensation. A move away from cash compensation to stock-based compensation for employees is the third driver of its tax breaks. Tax deductions increase as the stock increases. While this can certainly create adverse incentives, it is important to assess the benefits it creates relative to the cost. While such a tax policy can introduce misaligned management incentives, it also generates incentives for management to drive the best possible return for investors.
Amazon largely pays no corporate tax precisely because it reinvests those profits into its operations. Under a scenario where Amazon had no corporate tax breaks, it would disincentive the company from reinvesting and thus creating greater opportunity for the businesses and cities in which it operates.
Raising a pitchfork to fight Amazon's corporate tax breaks is fine if the argument is rooted in strong economic reasoning. The risk is that too often the data is pulled out of context, and inaccurate storylines circling that data gain momentum and undeservedly accelerate.
The building impetus to tear down existing economic structures without a strong grounding in why the structures even exist could land us in a worse position. The question to address is not why Amazon pays no taxes, but under what tax structure could we be better off?"You’re confusing paying no tax with paying a fair share. The US has some states where you don’t pay hardly any tax. Look at what Amazon earned in the U.K. and Ireland last year in total revenue then look at their tax payments. Research and employing people is great it’s not responsible for non payments of tax. Jeff Bazos isn’t worth $200Billion if the company doesn’t make a profit. Of course it re invests but it avoids tax on such a huge scale it’s obscene. Starbucks is another , Google , Facebook, JCB the list goes on. Like I said I’m not saying punitive tax but tax on profits should be paid in the country of generation to contribute to that country’s infrastructure and services. Tax should be paid in the country of profit generation. It’s a simple principal. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"__________________________________ I bet there isn't a person here that would stop using Amazon as a protest to Tax issues. Or stop using their IPhone as a protest to Tax issues. Kick off you NIKE Trainers too . . . Don't use FedEx to send your parcels . . . Stop searching using Google . . . Don't drink Starbucks . .. Delete you account on FaceBook . . . Virgin anything ??? Forgot E-Bay! ________________________________ In one case , when a reporter undertook a survey on peoples views on taxation some replied that they were happy to pay more tax. Those who were willing to pay more tax were given the opportunity to put their desire into action when the surveyor handed them a form to complete which would be forwarded to HMRC asking them to collect additional tax from them . Not one of those who wanted to pay extra tax were prepared to sign the form . I suspect that many of those on here who would like taxation rates to be increased use every possible tax break available in order to reduce their own tax liability " It’s a selfish attitude and I am guilty too but I pay tax. Amazon doesn’t. There a big difference. All should contribute. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"__________________________________ I bet there isn't a person here that would stop using Amazon as a protest to Tax issues. Or stop using their IPhone as a protest to Tax issues. Kick off you NIKE Trainers too . . . Don't use FedEx to send your parcels . . . Stop searching using Google . . . Don't drink Starbucks . .. Delete you account on FaceBook . . . Virgin anything ??? Forgot E-Bay! ________________________________ In one case , when a reporter undertook a survey on peoples views on taxation some replied that they were happy to pay more tax. Those who were willing to pay more tax were given the opportunity to put their desire into action when the surveyor handed them a form to complete which would be forwarded to HMRC asking them to collect additional tax from them . Not one of those who wanted to pay extra tax were prepared to sign the form . I suspect that many of those on here who would like taxation rates to be increased use every possible tax break available in order to reduce their own tax liability To a One. "If I give you £100 and Jeff Bezos £100 but you pay £45 tax and I say it ok Jeff you can keep yours in full is that fair? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? Thee are various reasons as to why companies pay little or no corporation tax . The data below relates to the USA
Amazon’s recent decision to pull HQ2 out of New York City has reignited an older debate about why the company pays “no taxes.” One graphic, for example, produced by data journalist Mona Chalabi and subsequently reshared by House member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez among many others, shows two superimposed graphs comparing Amazon’s quickly growing profit next to its negligible taxes over the last nine years.
The comparison is striking. And also misleading. As one of today's most influential economists, Tyler Cowen, wrote on his site Marginal Revolution, “When it comes to the discussion surrounding Amazon and taxes, I can only sigh….”
What Is The Purpose Of A Tax?
First, a quick look at Amazon’s financial statements shows it does pay taxes. In 2017, Amazon paid close to $1 billion in income tax. In 2018, the amount jumped to $1.18 billion, accounting for local, state, and international taxes.
Amazon pays plenty in terms of payroll taxes and also state and local taxes. Nor should you forget the taxes paid by Amazon’s employees on their wages. Not only is that direct revenue to various levels of government, but the incidence of those taxes falls somewhat on Amazon, which now must pay higher wages to offset the tax burden faced by their employees," Cowen adds.
It is true that in the last two years, Amazon did not pay federal taxes. (It's odd to think I paid more federal tax last year than Amazon did.) But before yelling partiality, it is worth understanding why. A more thorough examination of the underlying economics demonstrates that only looking at Amazon's profits versus corporate taxes is too simplistic of a model.
Instead, a good place to start is understanding economic incentives. Incentives, in laymen's terms, sound like free money. Incentives, to an economist, operate as a lever to generate a better result which offset the cost. Taxes are one such lever. But taxes are too often interpreted only by their first-order effect of generating revenue, rather than the second-order effect of stimulating economic activity.
If you look at the Internal Revenue Code, as one CPA cites, less than 1% of it is dedicated to revenue generation. The majority, in fact, is on tax deductions. “There are only about 30 pages in the Code that actually raise revenue...[T]here are about 6,000 pages that tell you how to reduce taxes through tax deductions, tax credits and other incentives.”
Tax deductions can be incorrectly categorized as “crony capitalism.” But tax deductions, tax credits, and other incentives act as an important driver for organizations to then stimulate economic activity, job creation, and innovation.
Amazon's Tax Breaks And The Underlying Incentives
There are three main drivers of Amazon's tax breaks:
Investment in Research & Development. Amazon invests heavily in research and development and therefore benefits from the tax credit. In 2017, as Recode stated, Amazon topped the list of U.S. companies in R&D spend, at $22.6 billion. The next closest was Alphabet at $16.6 billion. Many of Amazon's innovations have been birthed from this investment.
Investment in Property, Plant, and Equipment. Amazon’s investment in property, plant, and equipment also makes it eligible for tax credits. Cities can benefit from Amazon's investment in real estate and job creation (benefits New York City could have enjoyed). Amazon's PPE expenditure has steadily increased over the last five years, netting to approximately $60 billion as of the end of last year.
Employee Stock Compensation. A move away from cash compensation to stock-based compensation for employees is the third driver of its tax breaks. Tax deductions increase as the stock increases. While this can certainly create adverse incentives, it is important to assess the benefits it creates relative to the cost. While such a tax policy can introduce misaligned management incentives, it also generates incentives for management to drive the best possible return for investors.
Amazon largely pays no corporate tax precisely because it reinvests those profits into its operations. Under a scenario where Amazon had no corporate tax breaks, it would disincentive the company from reinvesting and thus creating greater opportunity for the businesses and cities in which it operates.
Raising a pitchfork to fight Amazon's corporate tax breaks is fine if the argument is rooted in strong economic reasoning. The risk is that too often the data is pulled out of context, and inaccurate storylines circling that data gain momentum and undeservedly accelerate.
The building impetus to tear down existing economic structures without a strong grounding in why the structures even exist could land us in a worse position. The question to address is not why Amazon pays no taxes, but under what tax structure could we be better off?
You’re confusing paying no tax with paying a fair share.
The US has some states where you don’t pay hardly any tax.
Look at what Amazon earned in the U.K. and Ireland last year in total revenue then look at their tax payments. Research and employing people is great it’s not responsible for non payments of tax.
Jeff Bazos isn’t worth $200Billion if the company doesn’t make a profit. Of course it re invests but it avoids tax on such a huge scale it’s obscene.
Starbucks is another , Google , Facebook, JCB the list goes on.
Like I said I’m not saying punitive tax but tax on profits should be paid in the country of generation to contribute to that country’s infrastructure and services.
Tax should be paid in the country of profit generation. It’s a simple principal. "I agree with you here Jackal. Tax should be paid in the country where profits are generated. Where it comes unstuck though is when that country has tax laws that allow them to pay less then you can't blame the company. They are only taking advantage of said laws. As I said earlier, the EU have been taking companies to court for years and rarely win, meaning these companies are only using said laws to their advantage. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"__________________________________ I bet there isn't a person here that would stop using Amazon as a protest to Tax issues. Or stop using their IPhone as a protest to Tax issues. Kick off you NIKE Trainers too . . . Don't use FedEx to send your parcels . . . Stop searching using Google . . . Don't drink Starbucks . .. Delete you account on FaceBook . . . Virgin anything ??? Forgot E-Bay! ________________________________ In one case , when a reporter undertook a survey on peoples views on taxation some replied that they were happy to pay more tax. Those who were willing to pay more tax were given the opportunity to put their desire into action when the surveyor handed them a form to complete which would be forwarded to HMRC asking them to collect additional tax from them . Not one of those who wanted to pay extra tax were prepared to sign the form . I suspect that many of those on here who would like taxation rates to be increased use every possible tax break available in order to reduce their own tax liability It’s a selfish attitude and I am guilty too but I pay tax. Amazon doesn’t. There a big difference. All should contribute. " The argument is basically.. well you started it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"used to have milk men and farmers milk, supermarkets beat the shit out of them.... amazon will do same with virtually every product if we arent careful.... we wont be... world full of morons!You are right not just supermarkets petrol stations too but times do move on people rightly or wrongly want an easy life,try getting some food delivered on a Saturday night 50 years ago. Its people who drive the market and if people didn't use it,it would not exist. On the bright side milkmen seem to be making a comeback.
yes fat greedy people can now get food at anytime of day or night like nature intended, they dont have to move or burn any calories... brilliant lol and thats the sort of progress that has hospitals full of patients lol
we are progressing to what exactly? when they do surveys it seems people are getting less and less happy even though they now live longer and in better conditions! why is that? perhaps we are progressing towards a nanny cycle helmet wearing robotic existence? i am not a number! "As i said i dont disagree with you but the people get what the people want and have no one to blame except themselves its all driven by demand. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"__________________________________ I bet there isn't a person here that would stop using Amazon as a protest to Tax issues. Or stop using their IPhone as a protest to Tax issues. Kick off you NIKE Trainers too . . . Don't use FedEx to send your parcels . . . Stop searching using Google . . . Don't drink Starbucks . .. Delete you account on FaceBook . . . Virgin anything ??? Forgot E-Bay! ________________________________ In one case , when a reporter undertook a survey on peoples views on taxation some replied that they were happy to pay more tax. Those who were willing to pay more tax were given the opportunity to put their desire into action when the surveyor handed them a form to complete which would be forwarded to HMRC asking them to collect additional tax from them . Not one of those who wanted to pay extra tax were prepared to sign the form . I suspect that many of those on here who would like taxation rates to be increased use every possible tax break available in order to reduce their own tax liability It’s a selfish attitude and I am guilty too but I pay tax. Amazon doesn’t. There a big difference. All should contribute. " However Amazon do pay tax . One poster has posted the information and even referenced the note in the published accounts . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? Thee are various reasons as to why companies pay little or no corporation tax . The data below relates to the USA
Amazon’s recent decision to pull HQ2 out of New York City has reignited an older debate about why the company pays “no taxes.” One graphic, for example, produced by data journalist Mona Chalabi and subsequently reshared by House member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez among many others, shows two superimposed graphs comparing Amazon’s quickly growing profit next to its negligible taxes over the last nine years.
The comparison is striking. And also misleading. As one of today's most influential economists, Tyler Cowen, wrote on his site Marginal Revolution, “When it comes to the discussion surrounding Amazon and taxes, I can only sigh….”
What Is The Purpose Of A Tax?
First, a quick look at Amazon’s financial statements shows it does pay taxes. In 2017, Amazon paid close to $1 billion in income tax. In 2018, the amount jumped to $1.18 billion, accounting for local, state, and international taxes.
Amazon pays plenty in terms of payroll taxes and also state and local taxes. Nor should you forget the taxes paid by Amazon’s employees on their wages. Not only is that direct revenue to various levels of government, but the incidence of those taxes falls somewhat on Amazon, which now must pay higher wages to offset the tax burden faced by their employees," Cowen adds.
It is true that in the last two years, Amazon did not pay federal taxes. (It's odd to think I paid more federal tax last year than Amazon did.) But before yelling partiality, it is worth understanding why. A more thorough examination of the underlying economics demonstrates that only looking at Amazon's profits versus corporate taxes is too simplistic of a model.
Instead, a good place to start is understanding economic incentives. Incentives, in laymen's terms, sound like free money. Incentives, to an economist, operate as a lever to generate a better result which offset the cost. Taxes are one such lever. But taxes are too often interpreted only by their first-order effect of generating revenue, rather than the second-order effect of stimulating economic activity.
If you look at the Internal Revenue Code, as one CPA cites, less than 1% of it is dedicated to revenue generation. The majority, in fact, is on tax deductions. “There are only about 30 pages in the Code that actually raise revenue...[T]here are about 6,000 pages that tell you how to reduce taxes through tax deductions, tax credits and other incentives.”
Tax deductions can be incorrectly categorized as “crony capitalism.” But tax deductions, tax credits, and other incentives act as an important driver for organizations to then stimulate economic activity, job creation, and innovation.
Amazon's Tax Breaks And The Underlying Incentives
There are three main drivers of Amazon's tax breaks:
Investment in Research & Development. Amazon invests heavily in research and development and therefore benefits from the tax credit. In 2017, as Recode stated, Amazon topped the list of U.S. companies in R&D spend, at $22.6 billion. The next closest was Alphabet at $16.6 billion. Many of Amazon's innovations have been birthed from this investment.
Investment in Property, Plant, and Equipment. Amazon’s investment in property, plant, and equipment also makes it eligible for tax credits. Cities can benefit from Amazon's investment in real estate and job creation (benefits New York City could have enjoyed). Amazon's PPE expenditure has steadily increased over the last five years, netting to approximately $60 billion as of the end of last year.
Employee Stock Compensation. A move away from cash compensation to stock-based compensation for employees is the third driver of its tax breaks. Tax deductions increase as the stock increases. While this can certainly create adverse incentives, it is important to assess the benefits it creates relative to the cost. While such a tax policy can introduce misaligned management incentives, it also generates incentives for management to drive the best possible return for investors.
Amazon largely pays no corporate tax precisely because it reinvests those profits into its operations. Under a scenario where Amazon had no corporate tax breaks, it would disincentive the company from reinvesting and thus creating greater opportunity for the businesses and cities in which it operates.
Raising a pitchfork to fight Amazon's corporate tax breaks is fine if the argument is rooted in strong economic reasoning. The risk is that too often the data is pulled out of context, and inaccurate storylines circling that data gain momentum and undeservedly accelerate.
The building impetus to tear down existing economic structures without a strong grounding in why the structures even exist could land us in a worse position. The question to address is not why Amazon pays no taxes, but under what tax structure could we be better off?
You’re confusing paying no tax with paying a fair share.
The US has some states where you don’t pay hardly any tax.
Look at what Amazon earned in the U.K. and Ireland last year in total revenue then look at their tax payments. Research and employing people is great it’s not responsible for non payments of tax.
Jeff Bazos isn’t worth $200Billion if the company doesn’t make a profit. Of course it re invests but it avoids tax on such a huge scale it’s obscene.
Starbucks is another , Google , Facebook, JCB the list goes on.
Like I said I’m not saying punitive tax but tax on profits should be paid in the country of generation to contribute to that country’s infrastructure and services.
Tax should be paid in the country of profit generation. It’s a simple principal. "Does your company pay Corporation Tax on its turnover or net profit? You obviously expect British companies to pay their true tax liabilities to the countries in which their profits are generated too? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"__________________________________ I bet there isn't a person here that would stop using Amazon as a protest to Tax issues. Or stop using their IPhone as a protest to Tax issues. Kick off you NIKE Trainers too . . . Don't use FedEx to send your parcels . . . Stop searching using Google . . . Don't drink Starbucks . .. Delete you account on FaceBook . . . Virgin anything ??? Forgot E-Bay! ________________________________ In one case , when a reporter undertook a survey on peoples views on taxation some replied that they were happy to pay more tax. Those who were willing to pay more tax were given the opportunity to put their desire into action when the surveyor handed them a form to complete which would be forwarded to HMRC asking them to collect additional tax from them . Not one of those who wanted to pay extra tax were prepared to sign the form . I suspect that many of those on here who would like taxation rates to be increased use every possible tax break available in order to reduce their own tax liability It’s a selfish attitude and I am guilty too but I pay tax. Amazon doesn’t. There a big difference. All should contribute. The argument is basically.. well you started it." Will you stop using any of those above Lionel (or the many more other companies and services). Will you pay a 'fair price' for your goods or look for the cheaper one? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong." Why would it be Amazon, JCB or eBay fault that hospitals and schools are missing out? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"__________________________________ I bet there isn't a person here that would stop using Amazon as a protest to Tax issues. Or stop using their IPhone as a protest to Tax issues. Kick off you NIKE Trainers too . . . Don't use FedEx to send your parcels . . . Stop searching using Google . . . Don't drink Starbucks . .. Delete you account on FaceBook . . . Virgin anything ??? Forgot E-Bay! ________________________________ In one case , when a reporter undertook a survey on peoples views on taxation some replied that they were happy to pay more tax. Those who were willing to pay more tax were given the opportunity to put their desire into action when the surveyor handed them a form to complete which would be forwarded to HMRC asking them to collect additional tax from them . Not one of those who wanted to pay extra tax were prepared to sign the form . I suspect that many of those on here who would like taxation rates to be increased use every possible tax break available in order to reduce their own tax liability It’s a selfish attitude and I am guilty too but I pay tax. Amazon doesn’t. There a big difference. All should contribute. " Amazon does pay tax, it paid £6.3 million Corporation Tax on its profits for the last financial year. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? Thee are various reasons as to why companies pay little or no corporation tax . The data below relates to the USA
Amazon’s recent decision to pull HQ2 out of New York City has reignited an older debate about why the company pays “no taxes.” One graphic, for example, produced by data journalist Mona Chalabi and subsequently reshared by House member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez among many others, shows two superimposed graphs comparing Amazon’s quickly growing profit next to its negligible taxes over the last nine years.
The comparison is striking. And also misleading. As one of today's most influential economists, Tyler Cowen, wrote on his site Marginal Revolution, “When it comes to the discussion surrounding Amazon and taxes, I can only sigh….”
What Is The Purpose Of A Tax?
First, a quick look at Amazon’s financial statements shows it does pay taxes. In 2017, Amazon paid close to $1 billion in income tax. In 2018, the amount jumped to $1.18 billion, accounting for local, state, and international taxes.
Amazon pays plenty in terms of payroll taxes and also state and local taxes. Nor should you forget the taxes paid by Amazon’s employees on their wages. Not only is that direct revenue to various levels of government, but the incidence of those taxes falls somewhat on Amazon, which now must pay higher wages to offset the tax burden faced by their employees," Cowen adds.
It is true that in the last two years, Amazon did not pay federal taxes. (It's odd to think I paid more federal tax last year than Amazon did.) But before yelling partiality, it is worth understanding why. A more thorough examination of the underlying economics demonstrates that only looking at Amazon's profits versus corporate taxes is too simplistic of a model.
Instead, a good place to start is understanding economic incentives. Incentives, in laymen's terms, sound like free money. Incentives, to an economist, operate as a lever to generate a better result which offset the cost. Taxes are one such lever. But taxes are too often interpreted only by their first-order effect of generating revenue, rather than the second-order effect of stimulating economic activity.
If you look at the Internal Revenue Code, as one CPA cites, less than 1% of it is dedicated to revenue generation. The majority, in fact, is on tax deductions. “There are only about 30 pages in the Code that actually raise revenue...[T]here are about 6,000 pages that tell you how to reduce taxes through tax deductions, tax credits and other incentives.”
Tax deductions can be incorrectly categorized as “crony capitalism.” But tax deductions, tax credits, and other incentives act as an important driver for organizations to then stimulate economic activity, job creation, and innovation.
Amazon's Tax Breaks And The Underlying Incentives
There are three main drivers of Amazon's tax breaks:
Investment in Research & Development. Amazon invests heavily in research and development and therefore benefits from the tax credit. In 2017, as Recode stated, Amazon topped the list of U.S. companies in R&D spend, at $22.6 billion. The next closest was Alphabet at $16.6 billion. Many of Amazon's innovations have been birthed from this investment.
Investment in Property, Plant, and Equipment. Amazon’s investment in property, plant, and equipment also makes it eligible for tax credits. Cities can benefit from Amazon's investment in real estate and job creation (benefits New York City could have enjoyed). Amazon's PPE expenditure has steadily increased over the last five years, netting to approximately $60 billion as of the end of last year.
Employee Stock Compensation. A move away from cash compensation to stock-based compensation for employees is the third driver of its tax breaks. Tax deductions increase as the stock increases. While this can certainly create adverse incentives, it is important to assess the benefits it creates relative to the cost. While such a tax policy can introduce misaligned management incentives, it also generates incentives for management to drive the best possible return for investors.
Amazon largely pays no corporate tax precisely because it reinvests those profits into its operations. Under a scenario where Amazon had no corporate tax breaks, it would disincentive the company from reinvesting and thus creating greater opportunity for the businesses and cities in which it operates.
Raising a pitchfork to fight Amazon's corporate tax breaks is fine if the argument is rooted in strong economic reasoning. The risk is that too often the data is pulled out of context, and inaccurate storylines circling that data gain momentum and undeservedly accelerate.
The building impetus to tear down existing economic structures without a strong grounding in why the structures even exist could land us in a worse position. The question to address is not why Amazon pays no taxes, but under what tax structure could we be better off?
You’re confusing paying no tax with paying a fair share.
The US has some states where you don’t pay hardly any tax.
Look at what Amazon earned in the U.K. and Ireland last year in total revenue then look at their tax payments. Research and employing people is great it’s not responsible for non payments of tax.
Jeff Bazos isn’t worth $200Billion if the company doesn’t make a profit. Of course it re invests but it avoids tax on such a huge scale it’s obscene.
Starbucks is another , Google , Facebook, JCB the list goes on.
Like I said I’m not saying punitive tax but tax on profits should be paid in the country of generation to contribute to that country’s infrastructure and services.
Tax should be paid in the country of profit generation. It’s a simple principal.
I agree with you here Jackal. Tax should be paid in the country where profits are generated.
Where it comes unstuck though is when that country has tax laws that allow them to pay less then you can't blame the company. They are only taking advantage of said laws.
As I said earlier, the EU have been taking companies to court for years and rarely win, meaning these companies are only using said laws to their advantage."It’s all legal what’s happening so I’m not saying anyone is breaking any laws I just think the laws need changing . Companies and individuals shouldn’t avoid their percentage share . Max 45% as it is with PAYE . The French have made a good start with Facebook and the EU with the Caribbean havens but here in the U.K. we tend to look the other way and we are the worst in the G20. If a fair share was paid it would reduce our debts and improve things like education and road budgets etc. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong." so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel " Why do you think they are creating jobs here? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? Thee are various reasons as to why companies pay little or no corporation tax . The data below relates to the USA
Amazon’s recent decision to pull HQ2 out of New York City has reignited an older debate about why the company pays “no taxes.” One graphic, for example, produced by data journalist Mona Chalabi and subsequently reshared by House member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez among many others, shows two superimposed graphs comparing Amazon’s quickly growing profit next to its negligible taxes over the last nine years.
The comparison is striking. And also misleading. As one of today's most influential economists, Tyler Cowen, wrote on his site Marginal Revolution, “When it comes to the discussion surrounding Amazon and taxes, I can only sigh….”
What Is The Purpose Of A Tax?
First, a quick look at Amazon’s financial statements shows it does pay taxes. In 2017, Amazon paid close to $1 billion in income tax. In 2018, the amount jumped to $1.18 billion, accounting for local, state, and international taxes.
Amazon pays plenty in terms of payroll taxes and also state and local taxes. Nor should you forget the taxes paid by Amazon’s employees on their wages. Not only is that direct revenue to various levels of government, but the incidence of those taxes falls somewhat on Amazon, which now must pay higher wages to offset the tax burden faced by their employees," Cowen adds.
It is true that in the last two years, Amazon did not pay federal taxes. (It's odd to think I paid more federal tax last year than Amazon did.) But before yelling partiality, it is worth understanding why. A more thorough examination of the underlying economics demonstrates that only looking at Amazon's profits versus corporate taxes is too simplistic of a model.
Instead, a good place to start is understanding economic incentives. Incentives, in laymen's terms, sound like free money. Incentives, to an economist, operate as a lever to generate a better result which offset the cost. Taxes are one such lever. But taxes are too often interpreted only by their first-order effect of generating revenue, rather than the second-order effect of stimulating economic activity.
If you look at the Internal Revenue Code, as one CPA cites, less than 1% of it is dedicated to revenue generation. The majority, in fact, is on tax deductions. “There are only about 30 pages in the Code that actually raise revenue...[T]here are about 6,000 pages that tell you how to reduce taxes through tax deductions, tax credits and other incentives.”
Tax deductions can be incorrectly categorized as “crony capitalism.” But tax deductions, tax credits, and other incentives act as an important driver for organizations to then stimulate economic activity, job creation, and innovation.
Amazon's Tax Breaks And The Underlying Incentives
There are three main drivers of Amazon's tax breaks:
Investment in Research & Development. Amazon invests heavily in research and development and therefore benefits from the tax credit. In 2017, as Recode stated, Amazon topped the list of U.S. companies in R&D spend, at $22.6 billion. The next closest was Alphabet at $16.6 billion. Many of Amazon's innovations have been birthed from this investment.
Investment in Property, Plant, and Equipment. Amazon’s investment in property, plant, and equipment also makes it eligible for tax credits. Cities can benefit from Amazon's investment in real estate and job creation (benefits New York City could have enjoyed). Amazon's PPE expenditure has steadily increased over the last five years, netting to approximately $60 billion as of the end of last year.
Employee Stock Compensation. A move away from cash compensation to stock-based compensation for employees is the third driver of its tax breaks. Tax deductions increase as the stock increases. While this can certainly create adverse incentives, it is important to assess the benefits it creates relative to the cost. While such a tax policy can introduce misaligned management incentives, it also generates incentives for management to drive the best possible return for investors.
Amazon largely pays no corporate tax precisely because it reinvests those profits into its operations. Under a scenario where Amazon had no corporate tax breaks, it would disincentive the company from reinvesting and thus creating greater opportunity for the businesses and cities in which it operates.
Raising a pitchfork to fight Amazon's corporate tax breaks is fine if the argument is rooted in strong economic reasoning. The risk is that too often the data is pulled out of context, and inaccurate storylines circling that data gain momentum and undeservedly accelerate.
The building impetus to tear down existing economic structures without a strong grounding in why the structures even exist could land us in a worse position. The question to address is not why Amazon pays no taxes, but under what tax structure could we be better off?
You’re confusing paying no tax with paying a fair share.
The US has some states where you don’t pay hardly any tax.
Look at what Amazon earned in the U.K. and Ireland last year in total revenue then look at their tax payments. Research and employing people is great it’s not responsible for non payments of tax.
Jeff Bazos isn’t worth $200Billion if the company doesn’t make a profit. Of course it re invests but it avoids tax on such a huge scale it’s obscene.
Starbucks is another , Google , Facebook, JCB the list goes on.
Like I said I’m not saying punitive tax but tax on profits should be paid in the country of generation to contribute to that country’s infrastructure and services.
Tax should be paid in the country of profit generation. It’s a simple principal.
Does your company pay Corporation Tax on its turnover or net profit?
You obviously expect British companies to pay their true tax liabilities to the countries in which their profits are generated too?
"Yes I do expect all to do the same . We exploit minerals in Africa and keep the profits well away form those pesky low paid workers!! If they need a hospital then fuck em cos I need a new yacht ! We pay on the profits generated in each country we don’t use tax havens . Answer your question? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel Why do you think they are creating jobs here?" because it makes sense to do it here that’s business for ya bud but you didn’t answer the question as always | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? "Are they operating and paying their tax within the law. Yes or no? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel Why do you think they are creating jobs here?because it makes sense to do it here that’s business for ya bud but you didn’t answer the question as always " Correct Becuade millions of people buy their goods here and it would make no sense to build a factory in Kurdistan and ship the goods here. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Because they have announced that they are creating 10 thousand jobs IN THE UK perhaps?" Tell that the to repair people who are losing theirs! I explained above more jobs go if more sales online . I’m not saying Amazon is bad for following our lazy buying habits I’m saying they should pay tax on their profits . They don’t!! Result they can undercut the local shops even more . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel Why do you think they are creating jobs here?because it makes sense to do it here that’s business for ya bud but you didn’t answer the question as always Correct Becuade millions of people buy their goods here and it would make no sense to build a factory in Kurdistan and ship the goods here." standard Lionel ffs | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel Why do you think they are creating jobs here?because it makes sense to do it here that’s business for ya bud but you didn’t answer the question as always Correct Becuade millions of people buy their goods here and it would make no sense to build a factory in Kurdistan and ship the goods here.standard Lionel ffs" I answered your question. It would make no sense to create jobs overseas. Personally however there are clearly issues over working practices etc and there is also an issue over how much tax they pay. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel " They are moving jobs not creating . It’s not hard to understand ! If you live where there has been no buses for the last 60 years and everyone has to use taxis it means say 10 taxi drivers to get everyone around . A new bus service starts costing you the less . It uses one bus driver . The taxi drivers are out of work . You don’t take anymore journeys you just pay less and the bus company takes all the money to its tax haven. The local taxi drivers go on the dole and your tax goes up to pay their dole . The bus company just keeps their cash offshore. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel Why do you think they are creating jobs here?because it makes sense to do it here that’s business for ya bud but you didn’t answer the question as always Correct Becuade millions of people buy their goods here and it would make no sense to build a factory in Kurdistan and ship the goods here.standard Lionel ffs I answered your question. It would make no sense to create jobs overseas. Personally however there are clearly issues over working practices etc and there is also an issue over how much tax they pay." I asked are you happy that they are creating the jobs here you haven’t answered mate and they pay about minimum wage I think the warehouse jobs in darlo are about £10 an hr | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Because they have announced that they are creating 10 thousand jobs IN THE UK perhaps? Tell that the to repair people who are losing theirs! I explained above more jobs go if more sales online . I’m not saying Amazon is bad for following our lazy buying habits I’m saying they should pay tax on their profits . They don’t!! Result they can undercut the local shops even more . " What everybody has failed to mention so far is all the ****tens of thousands of businesses that sell through Amazon****. They pay NI for the employees that they employ, they pay their proportion of Pension Contributions. The Corporation Tax at the end of the year. The Properties that they occupy and the Business rates that they pay. The VAT that they pay . . . !!!??? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel They are moving jobs not creating . It’s not hard to understand ! If you live where there has been no buses for the last 60 years and everyone has to use taxis it means say 10 taxi drivers to get everyone around . A new bus service starts costing you the less . It uses one bus driver . The taxi drivers are out of work . You don’t take anymore journeys you just pay less and the bus company takes all the money to its tax haven. The local taxi drivers go on the dole and your tax goes up to pay their dole . The bus company just keeps their cash offshore. " We have buses and taxis where i live its not a good example. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions?
Are they operating and paying their tax within the law. Yes or no?"Absolutely yes. Is it right? absolutely not.. The laws need changing . The EU is trying to change the law but we aren’t. Guess who’s payrolling our leaders . It’s not the people on PAYE it’s those using the legal tax loopholes . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel They are moving jobs not creating . It’s not hard to understand ! If you live where there has been no buses for the last 60 years and everyone has to use taxis it means say 10 taxi drivers to get everyone around . A new bus service starts costing you the less . It uses one bus driver . The taxi drivers are out of work . You don’t take anymore journeys you just pay less and the bus company takes all the money to its tax haven. The local taxi drivers go on the dole and your tax goes up to pay their dole . The bus company just keeps their cash offshore. We have buses and taxis where i live its not a good example. "Lol . But you get the idea!! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Because they have announced that they are creating 10 thousand jobs IN THE UK perhaps? Tell that the to repair people who are losing theirs! I explained above more jobs go if more sales online . I’m not saying Amazon is bad for following our lazy buying habits I’m saying they should pay tax on their profits . They don’t!! Result they can undercut the local shops even more . What everybody has failed to mention so far is all the ****tens of thousands of businesses that sell through Amazon****. They pay NI for the employees that they employ, they pay their proportion of Pension Contributions. The Corporation Tax at the end of the year. The Properties that they occupy and the Business rates that they pay. The VAT that they pay . . . !!!???" Yes and they are doing the right thing which is great . Why should ten biggest earner Amazon not pay too? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? Thee are various reasons as to why companies pay little or no corporation tax . The data below relates to the USA
Amazon’s recent decision to pull HQ2 out of New York City has reignited an older debate about why the company pays “no taxes.” One graphic, for example, produced by data journalist Mona Chalabi and subsequently reshared by House member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez among many others, shows two superimposed graphs comparing Amazon’s quickly growing profit next to its negligible taxes over the last nine years.
The comparison is striking. And also misleading. As one of today's most influential economists, Tyler Cowen, wrote on his site Marginal Revolution, “When it comes to the discussion surrounding Amazon and taxes, I can only sigh….”
What Is The Purpose Of A Tax?
First, a quick look at Amazon’s financial statements shows it does pay taxes. In 2017, Amazon paid close to $1 billion in income tax. In 2018, the amount jumped to $1.18 billion, accounting for local, state, and international taxes.
Amazon pays plenty in terms of payroll taxes and also state and local taxes. Nor should you forget the taxes paid by Amazon’s employees on their wages. Not only is that direct revenue to various levels of government, but the incidence of those taxes falls somewhat on Amazon, which now must pay higher wages to offset the tax burden faced by their employees," Cowen adds.
It is true that in the last two years, Amazon did not pay federal taxes. (It's odd to think I paid more federal tax last year than Amazon did.) But before yelling partiality, it is worth understanding why. A more thorough examination of the underlying economics demonstrates that only looking at Amazon's profits versus corporate taxes is too simplistic of a model.
Instead, a good place to start is understanding economic incentives. Incentives, in laymen's terms, sound like free money. Incentives, to an economist, operate as a lever to generate a better result which offset the cost. Taxes are one such lever. But taxes are too often interpreted only by their first-order effect of generating revenue, rather than the second-order effect of stimulating economic activity.
If you look at the Internal Revenue Code, as one CPA cites, less than 1% of it is dedicated to revenue generation. The majority, in fact, is on tax deductions. “There are only about 30 pages in the Code that actually raise revenue...[T]here are about 6,000 pages that tell you how to reduce taxes through tax deductions, tax credits and other incentives.”
Tax deductions can be incorrectly categorized as “crony capitalism.” But tax deductions, tax credits, and other incentives act as an important driver for organizations to then stimulate economic activity, job creation, and innovation.
Amazon's Tax Breaks And The Underlying Incentives
There are three main drivers of Amazon's tax breaks:
Investment in Research & Development. Amazon invests heavily in research and development and therefore benefits from the tax credit. In 2017, as Recode stated, Amazon topped the list of U.S. companies in R&D spend, at $22.6 billion. The next closest was Alphabet at $16.6 billion. Many of Amazon's innovations have been birthed from this investment.
Investment in Property, Plant, and Equipment. Amazon’s investment in property, plant, and equipment also makes it eligible for tax credits. Cities can benefit from Amazon's investment in real estate and job creation (benefits New York City could have enjoyed). Amazon's PPE expenditure has steadily increased over the last five years, netting to approximately $60 billion as of the end of last year.
Employee Stock Compensation. A move away from cash compensation to stock-based compensation for employees is the third driver of its tax breaks. Tax deductions increase as the stock increases. While this can certainly create adverse incentives, it is important to assess the benefits it creates relative to the cost. While such a tax policy can introduce misaligned management incentives, it also generates incentives for management to drive the best possible return for investors.
Amazon largely pays no corporate tax precisely because it reinvests those profits into its operations. Under a scenario where Amazon had no corporate tax breaks, it would disincentive the company from reinvesting and thus creating greater opportunity for the businesses and cities in which it operates.
Raising a pitchfork to fight Amazon's corporate tax breaks is fine if the argument is rooted in strong economic reasoning. The risk is that too often the data is pulled out of context, and inaccurate storylines circling that data gain momentum and undeservedly accelerate.
The building impetus to tear down existing economic structures without a strong grounding in why the structures even exist could land us in a worse position. The question to address is not why Amazon pays no taxes, but under what tax structure could we be better off?
You’re confusing paying no tax with paying a fair share.
The US has some states where you don’t pay hardly any tax.
Look at what Amazon earned in the U.K. and Ireland last year in total revenue then look at their tax payments. Research and employing people is great it’s not responsible for non payments of tax.
Jeff Bazos isn’t worth $200Billion if the company doesn’t make a profit. Of course it re invests but it avoids tax on such a huge scale it’s obscene.
Starbucks is another , Google , Facebook, JCB the list goes on.
Like I said I’m not saying punitive tax but tax on profits should be paid in the country of generation to contribute to that country’s infrastructure and services.
Tax should be paid in the country of profit generation. It’s a simple principal.
I agree with you here Jackal. Tax should be paid in the country where profits are generated.
Where it comes unstuck though is when that country has tax laws that allow them to pay less then you can't blame the company. They are only taking advantage of said laws.
As I said earlier, the EU have been taking companies to court for years and rarely win, meaning these companies are only using said laws to their advantage.
It’s all legal what’s happening so I’m not saying anyone is breaking any laws I just think the laws need changing . Companies and individuals shouldn’t avoid their percentage share .
Max 45% as it is with PAYE .
The French have made a good start with Facebook and the EU with the Caribbean havens but here in the U.K. we tend to look the other way and we are the worst in the G20.
If a fair share was paid it would reduce our debts and improve things like education and road budgets etc.
"OK, so you’re a sole trader and not a limited company but I imagine you mitigate your tax liability as much as you are legally allowed. Is that any different to a limited company doing likewise, within the eXisting UK tax laws? You may say the EU has started with Caribbean Tax havens but it still allows individual member states to set their own Corporation Tax rates, which Eire have used to their advantage by attracting companies to set up there due to its low corporation tax rates, 12.5% if my memory is correct. This encourages companies not to pay tax their home countries. I entirely agree that both companies and individuals should pay the correct amount of tax on their profits/income but this also applies to UK companies generating profits outside of the UK | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Because they have announced that they are creating 10 thousand jobs IN THE UK perhaps? Tell that the to repair people who are losing theirs! I explained above more jobs go if more sales online . I’m not saying Amazon is bad for following our lazy buying habits I’m saying they should pay tax on their profits . They don’t!! Result they can undercut the local shops even more . What everybody has failed to mention so far is all the ****tens of thousands of businesses that sell through Amazon****. They pay NI for the employees that they employ, they pay their proportion of Pension Contributions. The Corporation Tax at the end of the year. The Properties that they occupy and the Business rates that they pay. The VAT that they pay . . . !!!??? Yes and they are doing the right thing which is great . Why should ten biggest earner Amazon not pay too? " Once more - I agree - But what they are doing it isn't illegal. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel They are moving jobs not creating . It’s not hard to understand ! If you live where there has been no buses for the last 60 years and everyone has to use taxis it means say 10 taxi drivers to get everyone around . A new bus service starts costing you the less . It uses one bus driver . The taxi drivers are out of work . You don’t take anymore journeys you just pay less and the bus company takes all the money to its tax haven. The local taxi drivers go on the dole and your tax goes up to pay their dole . The bus company just keeps their cash offshore. We have buses and taxis where i live its not a good example.
Lol . But you get the idea!! "There really is only two choices thats a world wide standard for the tax which will never happen or governments tell them they cannot trade in their country unless they pay the proportional tax.Whats your solution? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel Why do you think they are creating jobs here?because it makes sense to do it here that’s business for ya bud but you didn’t answer the question as always Correct Becuade millions of people buy their goods here and it would make no sense to build a factory in Kurdistan and ship the goods here.standard Lionel ffs I answered your question. It would make no sense to create jobs overseas. Personally however there are clearly issues over working practices etc and there is also an issue over how much tax they pay.I asked are you happy that they are creating the jobs here you haven’t answered mate and they pay about minimum wage I think the warehouse jobs in darlo are about £10 an hr " Minimum wage is £9 something? Their working conditions are well publicised. Am I happy they are creating jobs? Yes but with the caveat that I'd like to see more established well paid jobs. Do you consider working an amazon to be a good job? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm still waiting for ANYONE to declare that they won't buy or use online/high-street vendors that haven't paid what they believe to be the amount of taxes that they 'should' pay! Any takers? " NOPE !!!! Thought NOT !!! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Because they have announced that they are creating 10 thousand jobs IN THE UK perhaps? Tell that the to repair people who are losing theirs! I explained above more jobs go if more sales online . I’m not saying Amazon is bad for following our lazy buying habits I’m saying they should pay tax on their profits . They don’t!! Result they can undercut the local shops even more . " For the third time, I will say that Amazon paid £6.3 million pounds Corporation Tax on their profits for their accounting year to 31 December 2019. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel They are moving jobs not creating . It’s not hard to understand ! If you live where there has been no buses for the last 60 years and everyone has to use taxis it means say 10 taxi drivers to get everyone around . A new bus service starts costing you the less . It uses one bus driver . The taxi drivers are out of work . You don’t take anymore journeys you just pay less and the bus company takes all the money to its tax haven. The local taxi drivers go on the dole and your tax goes up to pay their dole . The bus company just keeps their cash offshore. " . Why would anyone be bothered about taxi drivers being out of work ? If you lose your job, you simply find another one . That is what most people do. In any event, most taxi businnesses have to date managed to compete successfully alongside UBER. What the public want is value for money . They have no interest in how much taxation a company pays . We can rely on central government and HMRC to run the countries tax affairs. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! So there can never be good news on jobs then, very sad day. Personally I thought job creation was good but reading your post that seems very difficult. You say you would be happy if its a factory making stuff but does that not have the same problem. For instance if a new factory opened making ovens then everyone they sold would be one less for the other factories making ovens so we have the same situation. If we are selling ovens in the U.K. , exporting ovens and no longer importing ovens and there is a spins off supply chain jobs created it’s a win win. There a difference . Importing crap and selling it doesn’t great U.K. jobs. The market doesn’t grow as additional jobs aren’t created . The cheaper things get the lower the pay becomes the less people have to spend . I was using your example with the burgers from Wendy's. If one company sets up in the UK to make ovens then it affects the current oven making companies in the UK making ovens so bad news despite thousands of jobs created. I still weirdly think its good news but that's just me. Speaking of Wendy's in their statement they say they are returning to the UK and then into Europe eventually. When they go to Europe will it be bad news for them too. You only buy so many burgers to consume. It’s a finite limit of consumption. If you build ovens in the U.K. the source the steel the electric the heating element the packaging all from the U.K. it creates manufacturing jobs along the line. If you import an oven it employs the delivery driver for an hour and the online sales for 10 mins. Do you see the difference? The more numerous higher paid jobs are in another country where they male the oven. " Who said importing the ovens?. I said using your theory of Wendy's 12,000 created jobs being bad news that means there is never good news. I said if a new company starts making ovens in the UK creating employment then according to your theory its bad as for every oven sold it affects the other oven manufacturers so is bad. This is using your theory which is why i think its wrong. As i say they plan to latter move into Europe at some point. Is that bad news for Europe's employment too? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel They are moving jobs not creating . It’s not hard to understand ! If you live where there has been no buses for the last 60 years and everyone has to use taxis it means say 10 taxi drivers to get everyone around . A new bus service starts costing you the less . It uses one bus driver . The taxi drivers are out of work . You don’t take anymore journeys you just pay less and the bus company takes all the money to its tax haven. The local taxi drivers go on the dole and your tax goes up to pay their dole . The bus company just keeps their cash offshore. . Why would anyone be bothered about taxi drivers being out of work ? If you lose your job, you simply find another one . That is what most people do. In any event, most taxi businnesses have to date managed to compete successfully alongside UBER. What the public want is value for money . They have no interest in how much taxation a company pays . We can rely on central government and HMRC to run the countries tax affairs. " Or jackel. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? Thee are various reasons as to why companies pay little or no corporation tax . The data below relates to the USA
Amazon’s recent decision to pull HQ2 out of New York City has reignited an older debate about why the company pays “no taxes.” One graphic, for example, produced by data journalist Mona Chalabi and subsequently reshared by House member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez among many others, shows two superimposed graphs comparing Amazon’s quickly growing profit next to its negligible taxes over the last nine years.
The comparison is striking. And also misleading. As one of today's most influential economists, Tyler Cowen, wrote on his site Marginal Revolution, “When it comes to the discussion surrounding Amazon and taxes, I can only sigh….”
What Is The Purpose Of A Tax?
First, a quick look at Amazon’s financial statements shows it does pay taxes. In 2017, Amazon paid close to $1 billion in income tax. In 2018, the amount jumped to $1.18 billion, accounting for local, state, and international taxes.
Amazon pays plenty in terms of payroll taxes and also state and local taxes. Nor should you forget the taxes paid by Amazon’s employees on their wages. Not only is that direct revenue to various levels of government, but the incidence of those taxes falls somewhat on Amazon, which now must pay higher wages to offset the tax burden faced by their employees," Cowen adds.
It is true that in the last two years, Amazon did not pay federal taxes. (It's odd to think I paid more federal tax last year than Amazon did.) But before yelling partiality, it is worth understanding why. A more thorough examination of the underlying economics demonstrates that only looking at Amazon's profits versus corporate taxes is too simplistic of a model.
Instead, a good place to start is understanding economic incentives. Incentives, in laymen's terms, sound like free money. Incentives, to an economist, operate as a lever to generate a better result which offset the cost. Taxes are one such lever. But taxes are too often interpreted only by their first-order effect of generating revenue, rather than the second-order effect of stimulating economic activity.
If you look at the Internal Revenue Code, as one CPA cites, less than 1% of it is dedicated to revenue generation. The majority, in fact, is on tax deductions. “There are only about 30 pages in the Code that actually raise revenue...[T]here are about 6,000 pages that tell you how to reduce taxes through tax deductions, tax credits and other incentives.”
Tax deductions can be incorrectly categorized as “crony capitalism.” But tax deductions, tax credits, and other incentives act as an important driver for organizations to then stimulate economic activity, job creation, and innovation.
Amazon's Tax Breaks And The Underlying Incentives
There are three main drivers of Amazon's tax breaks:
Investment in Research & Development. Amazon invests heavily in research and development and therefore benefits from the tax credit. In 2017, as Recode stated, Amazon topped the list of U.S. companies in R&D spend, at $22.6 billion. The next closest was Alphabet at $16.6 billion. Many of Amazon's innovations have been birthed from this investment.
Investment in Property, Plant, and Equipment. Amazon’s investment in property, plant, and equipment also makes it eligible for tax credits. Cities can benefit from Amazon's investment in real estate and job creation (benefits New York City could have enjoyed). Amazon's PPE expenditure has steadily increased over the last five years, netting to approximately $60 billion as of the end of last year.
Employee Stock Compensation. A move away from cash compensation to stock-based compensation for employees is the third driver of its tax breaks. Tax deductions increase as the stock increases. While this can certainly create adverse incentives, it is important to assess the benefits it creates relative to the cost. While such a tax policy can introduce misaligned management incentives, it also generates incentives for management to drive the best possible return for investors.
Amazon largely pays no corporate tax precisely because it reinvests those profits into its operations. Under a scenario where Amazon had no corporate tax breaks, it would disincentive the company from reinvesting and thus creating greater opportunity for the businesses and cities in which it operates.
Raising a pitchfork to fight Amazon's corporate tax breaks is fine if the argument is rooted in strong economic reasoning. The risk is that too often the data is pulled out of context, and inaccurate storylines circling that data gain momentum and undeservedly accelerate.
The building impetus to tear down existing economic structures without a strong grounding in why the structures even exist could land us in a worse position. The question to address is not why Amazon pays no taxes, but under what tax structure could we be better off?
You’re confusing paying no tax with paying a fair share.
The US has some states where you don’t pay hardly any tax.
Look at what Amazon earned in the U.K. and Ireland last year in total revenue then look at their tax payments. Research and employing people is great it’s not responsible for non payments of tax.
Jeff Bazos isn’t worth $200Billion if the company doesn’t make a profit. Of course it re invests but it avoids tax on such a huge scale it’s obscene.
Starbucks is another , Google , Facebook, JCB the list goes on.
Like I said I’m not saying punitive tax but tax on profits should be paid in the country of generation to contribute to that country’s infrastructure and services.
Tax should be paid in the country of profit generation. It’s a simple principal.
I agree with you here Jackal. Tax should be paid in the country where profits are generated.
Where it comes unstuck though is when that country has tax laws that allow them to pay less then you can't blame the company. They are only taking advantage of said laws.
As I said earlier, the EU have been taking companies to court for years and rarely win, meaning these companies are only using said laws to their advantage.
It’s all legal what’s happening so I’m not saying anyone is breaking any laws I just think the laws need changing . Companies and individuals shouldn’t avoid their percentage share .
Max 45% as it is with PAYE .
The French have made a good start with Facebook and the EU with the Caribbean havens but here in the U.K. we tend to look the other way and we are the worst in the G20.
If a fair share was paid it would reduce our debts and improve things like education and road budgets etc.
OK, so you’re a sole trader and not a limited company but I imagine you mitigate your tax liability as much as you are legally allowed. Is that any different to a limited company doing likewise, within the eXisting UK tax laws?
You may say the EU has started with Caribbean Tax havens but it still allows individual member states to set their own Corporation Tax rates, which Eire have used to their advantage by attracting companies to set up there due to its low corporation tax rates, 12.5% if my memory is correct. This encourages companies not to pay tax their home countries.
I entirely agree that both companies and individuals should pay the correct amount of tax on their profits/income but this also applies to UK companies generating profits outside of the UK"Sorry Jackal, I misread your post. When you said Max 45%, I thought you were referring to my post and stating your tax bracket. The rest of my post is still relevant though. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"As we have seen the supermarkets kill the local shops and employ less people . Profits are central and for shareholders to benefit not local communities . Amazon is the bigger nightmare version . They don’t pay tax they cause job losses in the high street. Progress on IT and service I give you but U.K. tax take will be reduced . Look into the Walmart effect in the US. Big is definitely not good for your town. Personally I don’t welcome their announcement as a positive . it’s called progress mate move with the times or loose out the ten thousand new employed be glad of the money and pay taxes it’s the future we all use Amazon You’re missing the point. Unless we create other jobs more people will be out of work than the 10,000 created. I like others buy through Amazon so I’m being a hypocrite but I can still see low skill jobs being the norm. These aren’t new jobs being created they are jobs moving sector from retail to warehouse and van. Just like free ports, the jobs move from other areas they are not additional and the government takes less tax. It’s a false impression. Enterprise zones in the 80s did the same thing. Amazon do not pay tax other than their share of NI and employers tax. Corporate is Ireland , Luxembourg and other offshore. Don’t be mislead by the comment like Starbucks and Google that “we pay all due tax”. The profits are moved out of the U.K. before tax is calculated. This is worrying that every time jobs are created recently and in the news its always bad news. I assume the Wendy's stores returning is also very bad news as that's 12,000 bad news items If it was a factory making stuff to sell I would be celebrating with all concerned. It’s big warehouses replacing shops selling us the daily shit we buy. If you can’t see it’s not job creation in total then you’re not getting the reality. It’s great news for those who live near the warehouses. Not so great for people who work in retail. It’s not hard to work out. If you buy a Turkey at Christmas does buying it from Amazon instead of the local butcher create more jobs. You only buy one bloody Turkey. Does the butcher do well from the deal? Regarding Wendy’s it’s great if you like Wendy’s over other burgers but are you going to buy more burgers or just less McDonald’s? Or maybe you’re going to start eating two burgers a day now! " The population of UK is growing at a rate of approx 1000 per day, plenty of mouths to eat the extra burgers  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? Thee are various reasons as to why companies pay little or no corporation tax . The data below relates to the USA
Amazon’s recent decision to pull HQ2 out of New York City has reignited an older debate about why the company pays “no taxes.” One graphic, for example, produced by data journalist Mona Chalabi and subsequently reshared by House member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez among many others, shows two superimposed graphs comparing Amazon’s quickly growing profit next to its negligible taxes over the last nine years.
The comparison is striking. And also misleading. As one of today's most influential economists, Tyler Cowen, wrote on his site Marginal Revolution, “When it comes to the discussion surrounding Amazon and taxes, I can only sigh….”
What Is The Purpose Of A Tax?
First, a quick look at Amazon’s financial statements shows it does pay taxes. In 2017, Amazon paid close to $1 billion in income tax. In 2018, the amount jumped to $1.18 billion, accounting for local, state, and international taxes.
Amazon pays plenty in terms of payroll taxes and also state and local taxes. Nor should you forget the taxes paid by Amazon’s employees on their wages. Not only is that direct revenue to various levels of government, but the incidence of those taxes falls somewhat on Amazon, which now must pay higher wages to offset the tax burden faced by their employees," Cowen adds.
It is true that in the last two years, Amazon did not pay federal taxes. (It's odd to think I paid more federal tax last year than Amazon did.) But before yelling partiality, it is worth understanding why. A more thorough examination of the underlying economics demonstrates that only looking at Amazon's profits versus corporate taxes is too simplistic of a model.
Instead, a good place to start is understanding economic incentives. Incentives, in laymen's terms, sound like free money. Incentives, to an economist, operate as a lever to generate a better result which offset the cost. Taxes are one such lever. But taxes are too often interpreted only by their first-order effect of generating revenue, rather than the second-order effect of stimulating economic activity.
If you look at the Internal Revenue Code, as one CPA cites, less than 1% of it is dedicated to revenue generation. The majority, in fact, is on tax deductions. “There are only about 30 pages in the Code that actually raise revenue...[T]here are about 6,000 pages that tell you how to reduce taxes through tax deductions, tax credits and other incentives.”
Tax deductions can be incorrectly categorized as “crony capitalism.” But tax deductions, tax credits, and other incentives act as an important driver for organizations to then stimulate economic activity, job creation, and innovation.
Amazon's Tax Breaks And The Underlying Incentives
There are three main drivers of Amazon's tax breaks:
Investment in Research & Development. Amazon invests heavily in research and development and therefore benefits from the tax credit. In 2017, as Recode stated, Amazon topped the list of U.S. companies in R&D spend, at $22.6 billion. The next closest was Alphabet at $16.6 billion. Many of Amazon's innovations have been birthed from this investment.
Investment in Property, Plant, and Equipment. Amazon’s investment in property, plant, and equipment also makes it eligible for tax credits. Cities can benefit from Amazon's investment in real estate and job creation (benefits New York City could have enjoyed). Amazon's PPE expenditure has steadily increased over the last five years, netting to approximately $60 billion as of the end of last year.
Employee Stock Compensation. A move away from cash compensation to stock-based compensation for employees is the third driver of its tax breaks. Tax deductions increase as the stock increases. While this can certainly create adverse incentives, it is important to assess the benefits it creates relative to the cost. While such a tax policy can introduce misaligned management incentives, it also generates incentives for management to drive the best possible return for investors.
Amazon largely pays no corporate tax precisely because it reinvests those profits into its operations. Under a scenario where Amazon had no corporate tax breaks, it would disincentive the company from reinvesting and thus creating greater opportunity for the businesses and cities in which it operates.
Raising a pitchfork to fight Amazon's corporate tax breaks is fine if the argument is rooted in strong economic reasoning. The risk is that too often the data is pulled out of context, and inaccurate storylines circling that data gain momentum and undeservedly accelerate.
The building impetus to tear down existing economic structures without a strong grounding in why the structures even exist could land us in a worse position. The question to address is not why Amazon pays no taxes, but under what tax structure could we be better off?
You’re confusing paying no tax with paying a fair share.
The US has some states where you don’t pay hardly any tax.
Look at what Amazon earned in the U.K. and Ireland last year in total revenue then look at their tax payments. Research and employing people is great it’s not responsible for non payments of tax.
Jeff Bazos isn’t worth $200Billion if the company doesn’t make a profit. Of course it re invests but it avoids tax on such a huge scale it’s obscene.
Starbucks is another , Google , Facebook, JCB the list goes on.
Like I said I’m not saying punitive tax but tax on profits should be paid in the country of generation to contribute to that country’s infrastructure and services.
Tax should be paid in the country of profit generation. It’s a simple principal.
I agree with you here Jackal. Tax should be paid in the country where profits are generated.
Where it comes unstuck though is when that country has tax laws that allow them to pay less then you can't blame the company. They are only taking advantage of said laws.
As I said earlier, the EU have been taking companies to court for years and rarely win, meaning these companies are only using said laws to their advantage.
It’s all legal what’s happening so I’m not saying anyone is breaking any laws I just think the laws need changing . Companies and individuals shouldn’t avoid their percentage share .
Max 45% as it is with PAYE .
The French have made a good start with Facebook and the EU with the Caribbean havens but here in the U.K. we tend to look the other way and we are the worst in the G20.
If a fair share was paid it would reduce our debts and improve things like education and road budgets etc.
OK, so you’re a sole trader and not a limited company but I imagine you mitigate your tax liability as much as you are legally allowed. Is that any different to a limited company doing likewise, within the eXisting UK tax laws?
You may say the EU has started with Caribbean Tax havens but it still allows individual member states to set their own Corporation Tax rates, which Eire have used to their advantage by attracting companies to set up there due to its low corporation tax rates, 12.5% if my memory is correct. This encourages companies not to pay tax their home countries.
I entirely agree that both companies and individuals should pay the correct amount of tax on their profits/income but this also applies to UK companies generating profits outside of the UK"Yes so the big losers here will be Eire and Denmark with shipping companies based there on low tax rates. The U.K. will lose and gain but tax will be paid by all wherever they make the profit. If you can’t move the profit out you can’t hide the income for the tax avoidance. Everyone will pay their fair share. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ovens? Well we do get into it don't we. lol. McDonalds uses a large manufacturer in the UK for their food service range. Why would Wendy's do it differently." They probably will do the same but apparently on here some say its bad news having all these jobs created. Sadly as they intend to go to Europe eventually its bad news for them. Personally I welcome all these jobs being created. I wonder if Amazon announced they were to cut jobs or a burger outlet said it was leaving the UK what the reaction on here would be. Presumably if they are consistent in their theories it would be great news | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? Thee are various reasons as to why companies pay little or no corporation tax . The data below relates to the USA
Amazon’s recent decision to pull HQ2 out of New York City has reignited an older debate about why the company pays “no taxes.” One graphic, for example, produced by data journalist Mona Chalabi and subsequently reshared by House member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez among many others, shows two superimposed graphs comparing Amazon’s quickly growing profit next to its negligible taxes over the last nine years.
The comparison is striking. And also misleading. As one of today's most influential economists, Tyler Cowen, wrote on his site Marginal Revolution, “When it comes to the discussion surrounding Amazon and taxes, I can only sigh….”
What Is The Purpose Of A Tax?
First, a quick look at Amazon’s financial statements shows it does pay taxes. In 2017, Amazon paid close to $1 billion in income tax. In 2018, the amount jumped to $1.18 billion, accounting for local, state, and international taxes.
Amazon pays plenty in terms of payroll taxes and also state and local taxes. Nor should you forget the taxes paid by Amazon’s employees on their wages. Not only is that direct revenue to various levels of government, but the incidence of those taxes falls somewhat on Amazon, which now must pay higher wages to offset the tax burden faced by their employees," Cowen adds.
It is true that in the last two years, Amazon did not pay federal taxes. (It's odd to think I paid more federal tax last year than Amazon did.) But before yelling partiality, it is worth understanding why. A more thorough examination of the underlying economics demonstrates that only looking at Amazon's profits versus corporate taxes is too simplistic of a model.
Instead, a good place to start is understanding economic incentives. Incentives, in laymen's terms, sound like free money. Incentives, to an economist, operate as a lever to generate a better result which offset the cost. Taxes are one such lever. But taxes are too often interpreted only by their first-order effect of generating revenue, rather than the second-order effect of stimulating economic activity.
If you look at the Internal Revenue Code, as one CPA cites, less than 1% of it is dedicated to revenue generation. The majority, in fact, is on tax deductions. “There are only about 30 pages in the Code that actually raise revenue...[T]here are about 6,000 pages that tell you how to reduce taxes through tax deductions, tax credits and other incentives.”
Tax deductions can be incorrectly categorized as “crony capitalism.” But tax deductions, tax credits, and other incentives act as an important driver for organizations to then stimulate economic activity, job creation, and innovation.
Amazon's Tax Breaks And The Underlying Incentives
There are three main drivers of Amazon's tax breaks:
Investment in Research & Development. Amazon invests heavily in research and development and therefore benefits from the tax credit. In 2017, as Recode stated, Amazon topped the list of U.S. companies in R&D spend, at $22.6 billion. The next closest was Alphabet at $16.6 billion. Many of Amazon's innovations have been birthed from this investment.
Investment in Property, Plant, and Equipment. Amazon’s investment in property, plant, and equipment also makes it eligible for tax credits. Cities can benefit from Amazon's investment in real estate and job creation (benefits New York City could have enjoyed). Amazon's PPE expenditure has steadily increased over the last five years, netting to approximately $60 billion as of the end of last year.
Employee Stock Compensation. A move away from cash compensation to stock-based compensation for employees is the third driver of its tax breaks. Tax deductions increase as the stock increases. While this can certainly create adverse incentives, it is important to assess the benefits it creates relative to the cost. While such a tax policy can introduce misaligned management incentives, it also generates incentives for management to drive the best possible return for investors.
Amazon largely pays no corporate tax precisely because it reinvests those profits into its operations. Under a scenario where Amazon had no corporate tax breaks, it would disincentive the company from reinvesting and thus creating greater opportunity for the businesses and cities in which it operates.
Raising a pitchfork to fight Amazon's corporate tax breaks is fine if the argument is rooted in strong economic reasoning. The risk is that too often the data is pulled out of context, and inaccurate storylines circling that data gain momentum and undeservedly accelerate.
The building impetus to tear down existing economic structures without a strong grounding in why the structures even exist could land us in a worse position. The question to address is not why Amazon pays no taxes, but under what tax structure could we be better off?
You’re confusing paying no tax with paying a fair share.
The US has some states where you don’t pay hardly any tax.
Look at what Amazon earned in the U.K. and Ireland last year in total revenue then look at their tax payments. Research and employing people is great it’s not responsible for non payments of tax.
Jeff Bazos isn’t worth $200Billion if the company doesn’t make a profit. Of course it re invests but it avoids tax on such a huge scale it’s obscene.
Starbucks is another , Google , Facebook, JCB the list goes on.
Like I said I’m not saying punitive tax but tax on profits should be paid in the country of generation to contribute to that country’s infrastructure and services.
Tax should be paid in the country of profit generation. It’s a simple principal.
I agree with you here Jackal. Tax should be paid in the country where profits are generated.
Where it comes unstuck though is when that country has tax laws that allow them to pay less then you can't blame the company. They are only taking advantage of said laws.
As I said earlier, the EU have been taking companies to court for years and rarely win, meaning these companies are only using said laws to their advantage.
It’s all legal what’s happening so I’m not saying anyone is breaking any laws I just think the laws need changing . Companies and individuals shouldn’t avoid their percentage share .
Max 45% as it is with PAYE .
The French have made a good start with Facebook and the EU with the Caribbean havens but here in the U.K. we tend to look the other way and we are the worst in the G20.
If a fair share was paid it would reduce our debts and improve things like education and road budgets etc.
OK, so you’re a sole trader and not a limited company but I imagine you mitigate your tax liability as much as you are legally allowed. Is that any different to a limited company doing likewise, within the eXisting UK tax laws?
You may say the EU has started with Caribbean Tax havens but it still allows individual member states to set their own Corporation Tax rates, which Eire have used to their advantage by attracting companies to set up there due to its low corporation tax rates, 12.5% if my memory is correct. This encourages companies not to pay tax their home countries.
I entirely agree that both companies and individuals should pay the correct amount of tax on their profits/income but this also applies to UK companies generating profits outside of the UK
Yes so the big losers here will be Eire and Denmark with shipping companies based there on low tax rates.
The U.K. will lose and gain but tax will be paid by all wherever they make the profit. If you can’t move the profit out you can’t hide the income for the tax avoidance. Everyone will pay their fair share. "But unless there is universal agreement, it will never happen | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel They are moving jobs not creating . It’s not hard to understand ! If you live where there has been no buses for the last 60 years and everyone has to use taxis it means say 10 taxi drivers to get everyone around . A new bus service starts costing you the less . It uses one bus driver . The taxi drivers are out of work . You don’t take anymore journeys you just pay less and the bus company takes all the money to its tax haven. The local taxi drivers go on the dole and your tax goes up to pay their dole . The bus company just keeps their cash offshore. . Why would anyone be bothered about taxi drivers being out of work ? If you lose your job, you simply find another one . That is what most people do. In any event, most taxi businnesses have to date managed to compete successfully alongside UBER. What the public want is value for money . They have no interest in how much taxation a company pays . We can rely on central government and HMRC to run the countries tax affairs. " So higher unemployment due to cheap imports is a good thing? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ovens? Well we do get into it don't we. lol. McDonalds uses a large manufacturer in the UK for their food service range. Why would Wendy's do it differently." Are we going to eat twice as many burgers? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel They are moving jobs not creating . It’s not hard to understand ! If you live where there has been no buses for the last 60 years and everyone has to use taxis it means say 10 taxi drivers to get everyone around . A new bus service starts costing you the less . It uses one bus driver . The taxi drivers are out of work . You don’t take anymore journeys you just pay less and the bus company takes all the money to its tax haven. The local taxi drivers go on the dole and your tax goes up to pay their dole . The bus company just keeps their cash offshore. We have buses and taxis where i live its not a good example.
Lol . But you get the idea!! There really is only two choices thats a world wide standard for the tax which will never happen or governments tell them they cannot trade in their country unless they pay the proportional tax.Whats your solution? "Interestingly the Americans have mooted the global tax idea. Maybe just maybe. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ovens? Well we do get into it don't we. lol. McDonalds uses a large manufacturer in the UK for their food service range. Why would Wendy's do it differently. Are we going to eat twice as many burgers? " Well. I suppose you could buy one at McDonalds and then one at Wendy's or more probably you would just try one one day and another the next. But the adage is true. You build more roads and generally there appears more cars.
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? Thee are various reasons as to why companies pay little or no corporation tax . The data below relates to the USA
Amazon’s recent decision to pull HQ2 out of New York City has reignited an older debate about why the company pays “no taxes.” One graphic, for example, produced by data journalist Mona Chalabi and subsequently reshared by House member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez among many others, shows two superimposed graphs comparing Amazon’s quickly growing profit next to its negligible taxes over the last nine years.
The comparison is striking. And also misleading. As one of today's most influential economists, Tyler Cowen, wrote on his site Marginal Revolution, “When it comes to the discussion surrounding Amazon and taxes, I can only sigh….”
What Is The Purpose Of A Tax?
First, a quick look at Amazon’s financial statements shows it does pay taxes. In 2017, Amazon paid close to $1 billion in income tax. In 2018, the amount jumped to $1.18 billion, accounting for local, state, and international taxes.
Amazon pays plenty in terms of payroll taxes and also state and local taxes. Nor should you forget the taxes paid by Amazon’s employees on their wages. Not only is that direct revenue to various levels of government, but the incidence of those taxes falls somewhat on Amazon, which now must pay higher wages to offset the tax burden faced by their employees," Cowen adds.
It is true that in the last two years, Amazon did not pay federal taxes. (It's odd to think I paid more federal tax last year than Amazon did.) But before yelling partiality, it is worth understanding why. A more thorough examination of the underlying economics demonstrates that only looking at Amazon's profits versus corporate taxes is too simplistic of a model.
Instead, a good place to start is understanding economic incentives. Incentives, in laymen's terms, sound like free money. Incentives, to an economist, operate as a lever to generate a better result which offset the cost. Taxes are one such lever. But taxes are too often interpreted only by their first-order effect of generating revenue, rather than the second-order effect of stimulating economic activity.
If you look at the Internal Revenue Code, as one CPA cites, less than 1% of it is dedicated to revenue generation. The majority, in fact, is on tax deductions. “There are only about 30 pages in the Code that actually raise revenue...[T]here are about 6,000 pages that tell you how to reduce taxes through tax deductions, tax credits and other incentives.”
Tax deductions can be incorrectly categorized as “crony capitalism.” But tax deductions, tax credits, and other incentives act as an important driver for organizations to then stimulate economic activity, job creation, and innovation.
Amazon's Tax Breaks And The Underlying Incentives
There are three main drivers of Amazon's tax breaks:
Investment in Research & Development. Amazon invests heavily in research and development and therefore benefits from the tax credit. In 2017, as Recode stated, Amazon topped the list of U.S. companies in R&D spend, at $22.6 billion. The next closest was Alphabet at $16.6 billion. Many of Amazon's innovations have been birthed from this investment.
Investment in Property, Plant, and Equipment. Amazon’s investment in property, plant, and equipment also makes it eligible for tax credits. Cities can benefit from Amazon's investment in real estate and job creation (benefits New York City could have enjoyed). Amazon's PPE expenditure has steadily increased over the last five years, netting to approximately $60 billion as of the end of last year.
Employee Stock Compensation. A move away from cash compensation to stock-based compensation for employees is the third driver of its tax breaks. Tax deductions increase as the stock increases. While this can certainly create adverse incentives, it is important to assess the benefits it creates relative to the cost. While such a tax policy can introduce misaligned management incentives, it also generates incentives for management to drive the best possible return for investors.
Amazon largely pays no corporate tax precisely because it reinvests those profits into its operations. Under a scenario where Amazon had no corporate tax breaks, it would disincentive the company from reinvesting and thus creating greater opportunity for the businesses and cities in which it operates.
Raising a pitchfork to fight Amazon's corporate tax breaks is fine if the argument is rooted in strong economic reasoning. The risk is that too often the data is pulled out of context, and inaccurate storylines circling that data gain momentum and undeservedly accelerate.
The building impetus to tear down existing economic structures without a strong grounding in why the structures even exist could land us in a worse position. The question to address is not why Amazon pays no taxes, but under what tax structure could we be better off?
You’re confusing paying no tax with paying a fair share.
The US has some states where you don’t pay hardly any tax.
Look at what Amazon earned in the U.K. and Ireland last year in total revenue then look at their tax payments. Research and employing people is great it’s not responsible for non payments of tax.
Jeff Bazos isn’t worth $200Billion if the company doesn’t make a profit. Of course it re invests but it avoids tax on such a huge scale it’s obscene.
Starbucks is another , Google , Facebook, JCB the list goes on.
Like I said I’m not saying punitive tax but tax on profits should be paid in the country of generation to contribute to that country’s infrastructure and services.
Tax should be paid in the country of profit generation. It’s a simple principal.
I agree with you here Jackal. Tax should be paid in the country where profits are generated.
Where it comes unstuck though is when that country has tax laws that allow them to pay less then you can't blame the company. They are only taking advantage of said laws.
As I said earlier, the EU have been taking companies to court for years and rarely win, meaning these companies are only using said laws to their advantage.
It’s all legal what’s happening so I’m not saying anyone is breaking any laws I just think the laws need changing . Companies and individuals shouldn’t avoid their percentage share .
Max 45% as it is with PAYE .
The French have made a good start with Facebook and the EU with the Caribbean havens but here in the U.K. we tend to look the other way and we are the worst in the G20.
If a fair share was paid it would reduce our debts and improve things like education and road budgets etc.
OK, so you’re a sole trader and not a limited company but I imagine you mitigate your tax liability as much as you are legally allowed. Is that any different to a limited company doing likewise, within the eXisting UK tax laws?
You may say the EU has started with Caribbean Tax havens but it still allows individual member states to set their own Corporation Tax rates, which Eire have used to their advantage by attracting companies to set up there due to its low corporation tax rates, 12.5% if my memory is correct. This encourages companies not to pay tax their home countries.
I entirely agree that both companies and individuals should pay the correct amount of tax on their profits/income but this also applies to UK companies generating profits outside of the UK
Yes so the big losers here will be Eire and Denmark with shipping companies based there on low tax rates.
The U.K. will lose and gain but tax will be paid by all wherever they make the profit. If you can’t move the profit out you can’t hide the income for the tax avoidance. Everyone will pay their fair share.
But unless there is universal agreement, it will never happen"there are only so many safe places to hide money. Europe including the U.K. controls 80-90% of the stable places. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Ovens? Well we do get into it don't we. lol. McDonalds uses a large manufacturer in the UK for their food service range. Why would Wendy's do it differently. Are we going to eat twice as many burgers? Well. I suppose you could buy one at McDonalds and then one at Wendy's or more probably you would just try one one day and another the next. But the adage is true. You build more roads and generally there appears more cars.
"Yes but if you’re unemployed because there are only a few warehouse jobs you won’t be going far. I buy off Amazon like everyone so have no moral high ground there, I just want them to pay their taxes on the profit they make in the U.K. I don’t care how rich Basos gets, good for him, as long as he’s paying at least the same percentage here as his security guard on the warehouse gate. Right now he and other billionaires aren’t. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Because they have announced that they are creating 10 thousand jobs IN THE UK perhaps? Tell that the to repair people who are losing theirs! I explained above more jobs go if more sales online . I’m not saying Amazon is bad for following our lazy buying habits I’m saying they should pay tax on their profits . They don’t!! Result they can undercut the local shops even more . For the third time, I will say that Amazon paid £6.3 million pounds Corporation Tax on their profits for their accounting year to 31 December 2019. " On revenues of £13.4 billion. So they paid £6,300,000 (assuming your figures are correct) on a turnover of £13,400,000,000 Had they paid just 1% of their turnover in CT their CT contribution would have been £134 million. 0.1% would have been £13.4 million and 0.05% would have been £6.7 million. OK so CT is based on profit and that means that for ease of argument, £6,300,000 equates to 20% (or thereabouts) of the profits they made trading in the U.K. This suggests that on a turnover of £13.4 billion their taxable profit was about £30 million. That is not even remotely plausible. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions? Thee are various reasons as to why companies pay little or no corporation tax . The data below relates to the USA
Amazon’s recent decision to pull HQ2 out of New York City has reignited an older debate about why the company pays “no taxes.” One graphic, for example, produced by data journalist Mona Chalabi and subsequently reshared by House member Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez among many others, shows two superimposed graphs comparing Amazon’s quickly growing profit next to its negligible taxes over the last nine years.
The comparison is striking. And also misleading. As one of today's most influential economists, Tyler Cowen, wrote on his site Marginal Revolution, “When it comes to the discussion surrounding Amazon and taxes, I can only sigh….”
What Is The Purpose Of A Tax?
First, a quick look at Amazon’s financial statements shows it does pay taxes. In 2017, Amazon paid close to $1 billion in income tax. In 2018, the amount jumped to $1.18 billion, accounting for local, state, and international taxes.
Amazon pays plenty in terms of payroll taxes and also state and local taxes. Nor should you forget the taxes paid by Amazon’s employees on their wages. Not only is that direct revenue to various levels of government, but the incidence of those taxes falls somewhat on Amazon, which now must pay higher wages to offset the tax burden faced by their employees," Cowen adds.
It is true that in the last two years, Amazon did not pay federal taxes. (It's odd to think I paid more federal tax last year than Amazon did.) But before yelling partiality, it is worth understanding why. A more thorough examination of the underlying economics demonstrates that only looking at Amazon's profits versus corporate taxes is too simplistic of a model.
Instead, a good place to start is understanding economic incentives. Incentives, in laymen's terms, sound like free money. Incentives, to an economist, operate as a lever to generate a better result which offset the cost. Taxes are one such lever. But taxes are too often interpreted only by their first-order effect of generating revenue, rather than the second-order effect of stimulating economic activity.
If you look at the Internal Revenue Code, as one CPA cites, less than 1% of it is dedicated to revenue generation. The majority, in fact, is on tax deductions. “There are only about 30 pages in the Code that actually raise revenue...[T]here are about 6,000 pages that tell you how to reduce taxes through tax deductions, tax credits and other incentives.”
Tax deductions can be incorrectly categorized as “crony capitalism.” But tax deductions, tax credits, and other incentives act as an important driver for organizations to then stimulate economic activity, job creation, and innovation.
Amazon's Tax Breaks And The Underlying Incentives
There are three main drivers of Amazon's tax breaks:
Investment in Research & Development. Amazon invests heavily in research and development and therefore benefits from the tax credit. In 2017, as Recode stated, Amazon topped the list of U.S. companies in R&D spend, at $22.6 billion. The next closest was Alphabet at $16.6 billion. Many of Amazon's innovations have been birthed from this investment.
Investment in Property, Plant, and Equipment. Amazon’s investment in property, plant, and equipment also makes it eligible for tax credits. Cities can benefit from Amazon's investment in real estate and job creation (benefits New York City could have enjoyed). Amazon's PPE expenditure has steadily increased over the last five years, netting to approximately $60 billion as of the end of last year.
Employee Stock Compensation. A move away from cash compensation to stock-based compensation for employees is the third driver of its tax breaks. Tax deductions increase as the stock increases. While this can certainly create adverse incentives, it is important to assess the benefits it creates relative to the cost. While such a tax policy can introduce misaligned management incentives, it also generates incentives for management to drive the best possible return for investors.
Amazon largely pays no corporate tax precisely because it reinvests those profits into its operations. Under a scenario where Amazon had no corporate tax breaks, it would disincentive the company from reinvesting and thus creating greater opportunity for the businesses and cities in which it operates.
Raising a pitchfork to fight Amazon's corporate tax breaks is fine if the argument is rooted in strong economic reasoning. The risk is that too often the data is pulled out of context, and inaccurate storylines circling that data gain momentum and undeservedly accelerate.
The building impetus to tear down existing economic structures without a strong grounding in why the structures even exist could land us in a worse position. The question to address is not why Amazon pays no taxes, but under what tax structure could we be better off?
You’re confusing paying no tax with paying a fair share.
The US has some states where you don’t pay hardly any tax.
Look at what Amazon earned in the U.K. and Ireland last year in total revenue then look at their tax payments. Research and employing people is great it’s not responsible for non payments of tax.
Jeff Bazos isn’t worth $200Billion if the company doesn’t make a profit. Of course it re invests but it avoids tax on such a huge scale it’s obscene.
Starbucks is another , Google , Facebook, JCB the list goes on.
Like I said I’m not saying punitive tax but tax on profits should be paid in the country of generation to contribute to that country’s infrastructure and services.
Tax should be paid in the country of profit generation. It’s a simple principal.
I agree with you here Jackal. Tax should be paid in the country where profits are generated.
Where it comes unstuck though is when that country has tax laws that allow them to pay less then you can't blame the company. They are only taking advantage of said laws.
As I said earlier, the EU have been taking companies to court for years and rarely win, meaning these companies are only using said laws to their advantage.
It’s all legal what’s happening so I’m not saying anyone is breaking any laws I just think the laws need changing . Companies and individuals shouldn’t avoid their percentage share .
Max 45% as it is with PAYE .
The French have made a good start with Facebook and the EU with the Caribbean havens but here in the U.K. we tend to look the other way and we are the worst in the G20.
If a fair share was paid it would reduce our debts and improve things like education and road budgets etc.
OK, so you’re a sole trader and not a limited company but I imagine you mitigate your tax liability as much as you are legally allowed. Is that any different to a limited company doing likewise, within the eXisting UK tax laws?
You may say the EU has started with Caribbean Tax havens but it still allows individual member states to set their own Corporation Tax rates, which Eire have used to their advantage by attracting companies to set up there due to its low corporation tax rates, 12.5% if my memory is correct. This encourages companies not to pay tax their home countries.
I entirely agree that both companies and individuals should pay the correct amount of tax on their profits/income but this also applies to UK companies generating profits outside of the UK
Yes so the big losers here will be Eire and Denmark with shipping companies based there on low tax rates.
The U.K. will lose and gain but tax will be paid by all wherever they make the profit. If you can’t move the profit out you can’t hide the income for the tax avoidance. Everyone will pay their fair share.
But unless there is universal agreement, it will never happen there are only so many safe places to hide money. Europe including the U.K. controls 80-90% of the stable places. "It would also require universal tax laws/rates. There will always be someone willing to hide money. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Because they have announced that they are creating 10 thousand jobs IN THE UK perhaps? Tell that the to repair people who are losing theirs! I explained above more jobs go if more sales online . I’m not saying Amazon is bad for following our lazy buying habits I’m saying they should pay tax on their profits . They don’t!! Result they can undercut the local shops even more . For the third time, I will say that Amazon paid £6.3 million pounds Corporation Tax on their profits for their accounting year to 31 December 2019. On revenues of £13.4 billion. So they paid £6,300,000 (assuming your figures are correct) on a turnover of £13,400,000,000 Had they paid just 1% of their turnover in CT their CT contribution would have been £134 million. 0.1% would have been £13.4 million and 0.05% would have been £6.7 million. OK so CT is based on profit and that means that for ease of argument, £6,300,000 equates to 20% (or thereabouts) of the profits they made trading in the U.K. This suggests that on a turnover of £13.4 billion their taxable profit was about £30 million. That is not even remotely plausible." Instead of guessing, why not look at their accounts, just as I did. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions?
Are they operating and paying their tax within the law. Yes or no?
Absolutely yes.
Is it right? absolutely not..
The laws need changing . The EU is trying to change the law but we aren’t. Guess who’s payrolling our leaders . It’s not the people on PAYE it’s those using the legal tax loopholes .
"I ask are they operating and paying tax within the law. You confirm they are. So they do pay all tax the law requests. Not as some claim they don't pay tax. I agree the law needs to change but why blame Amazon for paying what they are required. Blame the laws and law makers | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
""Amazon to create more than 10,000 new UK jobs this year The online retailer's plans were hailed by business secretary Kwasi Kwarteng as a vote of confidence in the British economy." Amazon has announced plans to create more than 10,000 new permanent jobs in the UK this year. The online retail giant is opening new operations in Hinckley, Doncaster, Dartford, Gateshead and Swindon in 2021 and is also hiring for corporate roles as well as its cloud-computing division Amazon Web Services. Amazon's latest recruitment drive, hailed by the government as a "vote of confidence in the British economy", will take its total UK workforce to more than 55,000."
Would be nice if they actually started paying… you know…. Tax
They do…you know ….pay tax!
The paid the princely sum of £15 million in corporation tax…. How much do they earn from the uk? Billions?
Are they operating and paying their tax within the law. Yes or no?
Absolutely yes.
Is it right? absolutely not..
The laws need changing . The EU is trying to change the law but we aren’t. Guess who’s payrolling our leaders . It’s not the people on PAYE it’s those using the legal tax loopholes .
I ask are they operating and paying tax within the law. You confirm they are.
So they do pay all tax the law requests. Not as some claim they don't pay tax. I agree the law needs to change but why blame Amazon for paying what they are required. Blame the laws and law makers"I am
You’re not reading my posts.
The law and our government cover up the totally unfair tax burden in this country because people like Bamford donate £2.9m to the Conservative party. Or someone gives our PM a free villa holiday.
They don’t give these large amounts just because they are nice people! They would just give all donations to charity otherwise. I m sure sone do before you jump but why do they need to give a free holiday out? Or why is David Davis on £60k a year for 60 hours a year at JCB ?
Boris was on £20k for just 10 hours a year. It’s all corrupt and we are the mugs.
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Because they have announced that they are creating 10 thousand jobs IN THE UK perhaps? Tell that the to repair people who are losing theirs! I explained above more jobs go if more sales online . I’m not saying Amazon is bad for following our lazy buying habits I’m saying they should pay tax on their profits . They don’t!! Result they can undercut the local shops even more . For the third time, I will say that Amazon paid £6.3 million pounds Corporation Tax on their profits for their accounting year to 31 December 2019. On revenues of £13.4 billion. So they paid £6,300,000 (assuming your figures are correct) on a turnover of £13,400,000,000 Had they paid just 1% of their turnover in CT their CT contribution would have been £134 million. 0.1% would have been £13.4 million and 0.05% would have been £6.7 million. OK so CT is based on profit and that means that for ease of argument, £6,300,000 equates to 20% (or thereabouts) of the profits they made trading in the U.K. This suggests that on a turnover of £13.4 billion their taxable profit was about £30 million. That is not even remotely plausible. Instead of guessing, why not look at their accounts, just as I did. " Do you think that’s a reasonable amount? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Because they have announced that they are creating 10 thousand jobs IN THE UK perhaps? Tell that the to repair people who are losing theirs! I explained above more jobs go if more sales online . I’m not saying Amazon is bad for following our lazy buying habits I’m saying they should pay tax on their profits . They don’t!! Result they can undercut the local shops even more . For the third time, I will say that Amazon paid £6.3 million pounds Corporation Tax on their profits for their accounting year to 31 December 2019. On revenues of £13.4 billion. So they paid £6,300,000 (assuming your figures are correct) on a turnover of £13,400,000,000 Had they paid just 1% of their turnover in CT their CT contribution would have been £134 million. 0.1% would have been £13.4 million and 0.05% would have been £6.7 million. OK so CT is based on profit and that means that for ease of argument, £6,300,000 equates to 20% (or thereabouts) of the profits they made trading in the U.K. This suggests that on a turnover of £13.4 billion their taxable profit was about £30 million. That is not even remotely plausible." . It would be interesting to know why you this is not remotely plausible . Amazon are a high turnover / low margin business providing a service to retail customers . With all the publicity concerning their tax affairs , we can probably be certain that they are squeaky clean . With all the haters , they are hardly going to take any chances on the taxation computations which they submit to HMRC . We pay all taxes required in the UK and every country where we operate, and focusing on one small piece does not provide a full picture of Amazon’s overall contribution to the UK,” Amazon said. “Corporation tax is based on profits, not revenues, and our profits have remained low given retail is a highly competitive, low-margin business and we continue to invest heavily.” In a blog post published on Tuesday, Amazon noted that it paid £293m in taxes in the UK on revenues of £13.7bn in 2019. This figure includes includes National Insurance contributions, business rates, corporate taxes, import duties, and stamp duty, the company said. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel Why do you think they are creating jobs here?because it makes sense to do it here that’s business for ya bud but you didn’t answer the question as always Correct Becuade millions of people buy their goods here and it would make no sense to build a factory in Kurdistan and ship the goods here.standard Lionel ffs I answered your question. It would make no sense to create jobs overseas. Personally however there are clearly issues over working practices etc and there is also an issue over how much tax they pay.I asked are you happy that they are creating the jobs here you haven’t answered mate and they pay about minimum wage I think the warehouse jobs in darlo are about £10 an hr Minimum wage is £9 something? Their working conditions are well publicised. Am I happy they are creating jobs? Yes but with the caveat that I'd like to see more established well paid jobs. Do you consider working an amazon to be a good job?" minimum wage is &8.92 I don’t know Lionel I don’t work there but I know that the people who do couldn’t get in there fast enough at the darlo warehouse | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel Why do you think they are creating jobs here?because it makes sense to do it here that’s business for ya bud but you didn’t answer the question as always Correct Becuade millions of people buy their goods here and it would make no sense to build a factory in Kurdistan and ship the goods here.standard Lionel ffs I answered your question. It would make no sense to create jobs overseas. Personally however there are clearly issues over working practices etc and there is also an issue over how much tax they pay.I asked are you happy that they are creating the jobs here you haven’t answered mate and they pay about minimum wage I think the warehouse jobs in darlo are about £10 an hr Minimum wage is £9 something? Their working conditions are well publicised. Am I happy they are creating jobs? Yes but with the caveat that I'd like to see more established well paid jobs. Do you consider working an amazon to be a good job?minimum wage is &8.92 I don’t know Lionel I don’t work there but I know that the people who do couldn’t get in there fast enough at the darlo warehouse " Surely you must have an opinion? Would you be happy on a zero hr contract as a delivery driver? As an aside there is a very good film set kn the ne about this very subject | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel Why do you think they are creating jobs here?because it makes sense to do it here that’s business for ya bud but you didn’t answer the question as always Correct Becuade millions of people buy their goods here and it would make no sense to build a factory in Kurdistan and ship the goods here.standard Lionel ffs I answered your question. It would make no sense to create jobs overseas. Personally however there are clearly issues over working practices etc and there is also an issue over how much tax they pay.I asked are you happy that they are creating the jobs here you haven’t answered mate and they pay about minimum wage I think the warehouse jobs in darlo are about £10 an hr Minimum wage is £9 something? Their working conditions are well publicised. Am I happy they are creating jobs? Yes but with the caveat that I'd like to see more established well paid jobs. Do you consider working an amazon to be a good job?minimum wage is &8.92 I don’t know Lionel I don’t work there but I know that the people who do couldn’t get in there fast enough at the darlo warehouse Surely you must have an opinion? Would you be happy on a zero hr contract as a delivery driver? As an aside there is a very good film set kn the ne about this very subject " I’ll play yr game Lionel I’ll answer yr questions with a question are you happy that there creating ten thousand jobs or not ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel Why do you think they are creating jobs here?because it makes sense to do it here that’s business for ya bud but you didn’t answer the question as always Correct Becuade millions of people buy their goods here and it would make no sense to build a factory in Kurdistan and ship the goods here.standard Lionel ffs I answered your question. It would make no sense to create jobs overseas. Personally however there are clearly issues over working practices etc and there is also an issue over how much tax they pay.I asked are you happy that they are creating the jobs here you haven’t answered mate and they pay about minimum wage I think the warehouse jobs in darlo are about £10 an hr Minimum wage is £9 something? Their working conditions are well publicised. Am I happy they are creating jobs? Yes but with the caveat that I'd like to see more established well paid jobs. Do you consider working an amazon to be a good job?minimum wage is &8.92 I don’t know Lionel I don’t work there but I know that the people who do couldn’t get in there fast enough at the darlo warehouse Surely you must have an opinion? Would you be happy on a zero hr contract as a delivery driver? As an aside there is a very good film set kn the ne about this very subject I’ll play yr game Lionel I’ll answer yr questions with a question are you happy that there creating ten thousand jobs or not ?" I answered above | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel Why do you think they are creating jobs here?because it makes sense to do it here that’s business for ya bud but you didn’t answer the question as always Correct Becuade millions of people buy their goods here and it would make no sense to build a factory in Kurdistan and ship the goods here.standard Lionel ffs I answered your question. It would make no sense to create jobs overseas. Personally however there are clearly issues over working practices etc and there is also an issue over how much tax they pay.I asked are you happy that they are creating the jobs here you haven’t answered mate and they pay about minimum wage I think the warehouse jobs in darlo are about £10 an hr Minimum wage is £9 something? Their working conditions are well publicised. Am I happy they are creating jobs? Yes but with the caveat that I'd like to see more established well paid jobs. Do you consider working an amazon to be a good job?minimum wage is &8.92 I don’t know Lionel I don’t work there but I know that the people who do couldn’t get in there fast enough at the darlo warehouse Surely you must have an opinion? Would you be happy on a zero hr contract as a delivery driver? As an aside there is a very good film set kn the ne about this very subject I’ll play yr game Lionel I’ll answer yr questions with a question are you happy that there creating ten thousand jobs or not ? I answered above "ffs I must of missed it then did you say wetheryr happy with the jobs or not then ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel Why do you think they are creating jobs here?because it makes sense to do it here that’s business for ya bud but you didn’t answer the question as always Correct Becuade millions of people buy their goods here and it would make no sense to build a factory in Kurdistan and ship the goods here.standard Lionel ffs I answered your question. It would make no sense to create jobs overseas. Personally however there are clearly issues over working practices etc and there is also an issue over how much tax they pay.I asked are you happy that they are creating the jobs here you haven’t answered mate and they pay about minimum wage I think the warehouse jobs in darlo are about £10 an hr Minimum wage is £9 something? Their working conditions are well publicised. Am I happy they are creating jobs? Yes but with the caveat that I'd like to see more established well paid jobs. Do you consider working an amazon to be a good job?minimum wage is &8.92 I don’t know Lionel I don’t work there but I know that the people who do couldn’t get in there fast enough at the darlo warehouse Surely you must have an opinion? Would you be happy on a zero hr contract as a delivery driver? As an aside there is a very good film set kn the ne about this very subject I’ll play yr game Lionel I’ll answer yr questions with a question are you happy that there creating ten thousand jobs or not ? I answered above ffs I must of missed it then did you say wetheryr happy with the jobs or not then ?"A scouser happy with more jobs sorry couldnt resist it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Presumably those saying Amazon have done nothing wrong ,are quite happy for hospitals and schools to miss out, as technically, they have done nothing wrong.so are you happy with the jobs Amazon are creating or would you rather see them move to another country Lionel Why do you think they are creating jobs here?because it makes sense to do it here that’s business for ya bud but you didn’t answer the question as always Correct Becuade millions of people buy their goods here and it would make no sense to build a factory in Kurdistan and ship the goods here.standard Lionel ffs I answered your question. It would make no sense to create jobs overseas. Personally however there are clearly issues over working practices etc and there is also an issue over how much tax they pay.I asked are you happy that they are creating the jobs here you haven’t answered mate and they pay about minimum wage I think the warehouse jobs in darlo are about £10 an hr Minimum wage is £9 something? Their working conditions are well publicised. Am I happy they are creating jobs? Yes but with the caveat that I'd like to see more established well paid jobs. Do you consider working an amazon to be a good job?minimum wage is &8.92 I don’t know Lionel I don’t work there but I know that the people who do couldn’t get in there fast enough at the darlo warehouse Surely you must have an opinion? Would you be happy on a zero hr contract as a delivery driver? As an aside there is a very good film set kn the ne about this very subject I’ll play yr game Lionel I’ll answer yr questions with a question are you happy that there creating ten thousand jobs or not ? I answered above ffs I must of missed it then did you say wetheryr happy with the jobs or not then ? A scouser happy with more jobs sorry couldnt resist it. "pmsl | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Raising a pitchfork to fight Amazon's corporate tax breaks is fine if the argument is rooted in strong economic reasoning. The risk is that too often the data is pulled out of context, and inaccurate storylines circling that data gain momentum and undeservedly accelerate. The building impetus to tear down existing economic structures without a strong grounding in why the structures even exist could land us in a worse position. The question to address is not why Amazon pays no taxes, but under what tax structure could we be better off?" I agree data czz as n be misleading . If you look at similar companies such as Alibaba it’s the understanding that Amazon’s actual profitability is between 28 and 38%. They are reporting 1-2% due to investment. That investment in their own company strengthens Amazon beyond belief. But not contributing to society’s infra structure in a fair way is morally wrong. It’s like me saying I’m buying more houses to make myself richer so please let me off my tax as I need to invest. Companies need to invest but the benefits they are being given far outweighs the long term income lost to the U.K. in tax. Amazon gets richer . U.K. gets more lower paid and lower skilled jobs. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Raising a pitchfork to fight Amazon's corporate tax breaks is fine if the argument is rooted in strong economic reasoning. The risk is that too often the data is pulled out of context, and inaccurate storylines circling that data gain momentum and undeservedly accelerate. The building impetus to tear down existing economic structures without a strong grounding in why the structures even exist could land us in a worse position. The question to address is not why Amazon pays no taxes, but under what tax structure could we be better off? I agree data czz as n be misleading . If you look at similar companies such as Alibaba it’s the understanding that Amazon’s actual profitability is between 28 and 38%. They are reporting 1-2% due to investment. That investment in their own company strengthens Amazon beyond belief. But not contributing to society’s infra structure in a fair way is morally wrong. It’s like me saying I’m buying more houses to make myself richer so please let me off my tax as I need to invest. Companies need to invest but the benefits they are being given far outweighs the long term income lost to the U.K. in tax. Amazon gets richer . U.K. gets more lower paid and lower skilled jobs. " would you rather Amazon move out the U.K. and take there jobs with them then ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| back to top |  |
