Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care "Outstanding | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
Outstanding "True to form I see. Post spurious claims and don’t want to discuss it  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
Outstanding
True to form I see.
Post spurious claims and don’t want to discuss it "Ha ha ha Spurious | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
Outstanding
True to form I see.
Post spurious claims and don’t want to discuss it
Ha ha ha
Spurious
"Maybe you're not sure what that word means but unless you can back up your claim  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It's been 11 years since the gmnt were first made aware there was a problem but apparently Its 'shameful 'to point out it may not be high on their list of priorities. Shocked I am." And this has what to do with the public not caring? Which is what you said. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
Outstanding
True to form I see.
Post spurious claims and don’t want to discuss it
Ha ha ha
Spurious
Maybe you're not sure what that word means but unless you can back up your claim "Back up what claim? That the gmnt are not too interested? They obvs are,which is why its took them 11 years to investigate | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It's been 11 years since the gmnt were first made aware there was a problem but apparently Its 'shameful 'to point out it may not be high on their list of priorities. Shocked I am. And this has what to do with the public not caring? Which is what you said." Have you ever come across the phrase.. tongue in cheek? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
Outstanding
True to form I see.
Post spurious claims and don’t want to discuss it
Ha ha ha
Spurious
Maybe you're not sure what that word means but unless you can back up your claim
Back up what claim?
That the gmnt are not too interested?
They obvs are,which is why its took them 11 years to investigate "You claimed the public do not care. Maybe I read things that you don't really write | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It's been 11 years since the gmnt were first made aware there was a problem but apparently Its 'shameful 'to point out it may not be high on their list of priorities. Shocked I am. And this has what to do with the public not caring? Which is what you said. Have you ever come across the phrase.. tongue in cheek?" Ah. that's you get out clause, is it? Say the public don't care and then say you said it tongue in cheek? That's probably worse than your first statement. You would probably just be better saying sorry - that was a bad statement and that you retract it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
Outstanding
True to form I see.
Post spurious claims and don’t want to discuss it
Ha ha ha
Spurious
Maybe you're not sure what that word means but unless you can back up your claim
Back up what claim?
That the gmnt are not too interested?
They obvs are,which is why its took them 11 years to investigate
You claimed the public do not care.
Maybe I read things that you don't really write "No i read that too.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
Outstanding
True to form I see.
Post spurious claims and don’t want to discuss it
Ha ha ha
Spurious
Maybe you're not sure what that word means but unless you can back up your claim
Back up what claim?
That the gmnt are not too interested?
They obvs are,which is why its took them 11 years to investigate
You claimed the public do not care.
Maybe I read things that you don't really write "It's like when you tell a joke and you have to explain the punchline. The line was a reference to the public not caring about wallpaper,bodies piling high etc If I meant it literally ,I would obviously be including myself and everyone I know in it. Irony is obviously a lost cause in here. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It's been 11 years since the gmnt were first made aware there was a problem but apparently Its 'shameful 'to point out it may not be high on their list of priorities. Shocked I am. And this has what to do with the public not caring? Which is what you said. Have you ever come across the phrase.. tongue in cheek? Ah. that's you get out clause, is it? Say the public don't care and then say you said it tongue in cheek? That's probably worse than your first statement. You would probably just be better saying sorry - that was a bad statement and that you retract it." Somehow I cant see that happening. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
Outstanding
True to form I see.
Post spurious claims and don’t want to discuss it
Ha ha ha
Spurious
Maybe you're not sure what that word means but unless you can back up your claim
Back up what claim?
That the gmnt are not too interested?
They obvs are,which is why its took them 11 years to investigate
You claimed the public do not care.
Maybe I read things that you don't really write
It's like when you tell a joke and you have to explain the punchline.
The line was a reference to the public not caring about wallpaper,bodies piling high etc
If I meant it literally ,I would obviously be including myself and everyone I know in it.
Irony is obviously a lost cause in here."Doesn't sound anything like two men went into a pub to me . . . It sounds like you made a blanket statement 'that people don't care if others die' | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It's been 11 years since the gmnt were first made aware there was a problem but apparently Its 'shameful 'to point out it may not be high on their list of priorities. Shocked I am. And this has what to do with the public not caring? Which is what you said. Have you ever come across the phrase.. tongue in cheek? Ah. that's you get out clause, is it? Say the public don't care and then say you said it tongue in cheek? That's probably worse than your first statement. You would probably just be better saying sorry - that was a bad statement and that you retract it. Somehow I cant see that happening." Me neither - shameful. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
Outstanding
True to form I see.
Post spurious claims and don’t want to discuss it
Ha ha ha
Spurious
Maybe you're not sure what that word means but unless you can back up your claim
Back up what claim?
That the gmnt are not too interested?
They obvs are,which is why its took them 11 years to investigate
You claimed the public do not care.
Maybe I read things that you don't really write
It's like when you tell a joke and you have to explain the punchline.
The line was a reference to the public not caring about wallpaper,bodies piling high etc
If I meant it literally ,I would obviously be including myself and everyone I know in it.
Irony is obviously a lost cause in here.
Doesn't sound anything like two men went into a pub to me . . .
It sounds like you made a blanket statement 'that people don't care if others die'"Sounded very much to me that was the claim too | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
Outstanding
True to form I see.
Post spurious claims and don’t want to discuss it
Ha ha ha
Spurious
Maybe you're not sure what that word means but unless you can back up your claim
Back up what claim?
That the gmnt are not too interested?
They obvs are,which is why its took them 11 years to investigate
You claimed the public do not care.
Maybe I read things that you don't really write
It's like when you tell a joke and you have to explain the punchline.
The line was a reference to the public not caring about wallpaper,bodies piling high etc
If I meant it literally ,I would obviously be including myself and everyone I know in it.
Irony is obviously a lost cause in here.
Doesn't sound anything like two men went into a pub to me . . .
It sounds like you made a blanket statement 'that people don't care if others die'"Of course..I have a history of going round saying no body in the country cares if people dies. That's obvs why I have been so critical of the gmnt handling the pandemic Isnt a strange how the actual topic of people dying because of gmnt policy, has been completely ignored? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
Outstanding
True to form I see.
Post spurious claims and don’t want to discuss it
Ha ha ha
Spurious
Maybe you're not sure what that word means but unless you can back up your claim
Back up what claim?
That the gmnt are not too interested?
They obvs are,which is why its took them 11 years to investigate
You claimed the public do not care.
Maybe I read things that you don't really write
It's like when you tell a joke and you have to explain the punchline.
The line was a reference to the public not caring about wallpaper,bodies piling high etc
If I meant it literally ,I would obviously be including myself and everyone I know in it.
Irony is obviously a lost cause in here.
Doesn't sound anything like two men went into a pub to me . . .
It sounds like you made a blanket statement 'that people don't care if others die'
Of course..I have a history of going round saying no body in the country cares if people dies.
That's obvs why I have been so critical of the gmnt handling the pandemic
Isnt a strange how the actual topic of people dying because of gmnt policy, has been completely ignored?"You love to go on about people dying because of gov policy but in reality people are dying all over the world despite the political slant of their governments. When are you actually going to accept you cannot compare numbers if various things are not taken into consideration for instance the age of the population, density and finally how deaths are recorded. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
Outstanding
True to form I see.
Post spurious claims and don’t want to discuss it
Ha ha ha
Spurious
Maybe you're not sure what that word means but unless you can back up your claim
Back up what claim?
That the gmnt are not too interested?
They obvs are,which is why its took them 11 years to investigate
You claimed the public do not care.
Maybe I read things that you don't really write
It's like when you tell a joke and you have to explain the punchline.
The line was a reference to the public not caring about wallpaper,bodies piling high etc
If I meant it literally ,I would obviously be including myself and everyone I know in it.
Irony is obviously a lost cause in here.
Doesn't sound anything like two men went into a pub to me . . .
It sounds like you made a blanket statement 'that people don't care if others die'
Of course..I have a history of going round saying no body in the country cares if people dies.
That's obvs why I have been so critical of the gmnt handling the pandemic
Isnt a strange how the actual topic of people dying because of gmnt policy, has been completely ignored? You love to go on about people dying because of gov policy but in reality people are dying all over the world despite the political slant of their governments.
When are you actually going to accept you cannot compare numbers if various things are not taken into consideration for instance the age of the population, density and finally how deaths are recorded."Lionel doesn't care about facts like that, he likes to blame the government for any and everything he can. He hasn't mentioned once that the UK's death rate to population is now down to 14th in Europe which is a result of government policies. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
Outstanding
True to form I see.
Post spurious claims and don’t want to discuss it
Ha ha ha
Spurious
Maybe you're not sure what that word means but unless you can back up your claim
Back up what claim?
That the gmnt are not too interested?
They obvs are,which is why its took them 11 years to investigate
You claimed the public do not care.
Maybe I read things that you don't really write
It's like when you tell a joke and you have to explain the punchline.
The line was a reference to the public not caring about wallpaper,bodies piling high etc
If I meant it literally ,I would obviously be including myself and everyone I know in it.
Irony is obviously a lost cause in here.
Doesn't sound anything like two men went into a pub to me . . .
It sounds like you made a blanket statement 'that people don't care if others die'
Of course..I have a history of going round saying no body in the country cares if people dies.
That's obvs why I have been so critical of the gmnt handling the pandemic
Isnt a strange how the actual topic of people dying because of gmnt policy, has been completely ignored? You love to go on about people dying because of gov policy but in reality people are dying all over the world despite the political slant of their governments.
When are you actually going to accept you cannot compare numbers if various things are not taken into consideration for instance the age of the population, density and finally how deaths are recorded.
Lionel doesn't care about facts like that, he likes to blame the government for any and everything he can.
He hasn't mentioned once that the UK's death rate to population is now down to 14th in Europe which is a result of government policies."Right.. so we are now comparing ourselves with other countries again.? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care "People killing themselves as a result of government austerity policy. And the person who points it out is divisive. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
People killing themselves as a result of government austerity policy. And the person who points it out is divisive.
"Read again: The OP said: "But the public dont care that people are actually dying because of gmnt policy" Pointing out a government policy is one thing but saying people don't care is entirely another. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
People killing themselves as a result of government austerity policy. And the person who points it out is divisive.
Read again: The OP said: "But the public dont care that people are actually dying because of gmnt policy"
Pointing out a government policy is one thing but saying people don't care is entirely another."I suspect that point is to spark opinions on why people keep voting for the conservatives whose policy it is. If people do care, there must be some reasons they keep voting for the Tories. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What do you mean by hearts of gold? And to seriously think that people don't feel sympathy with others is absolutely ridiculous. To continue to attempt to cause division says so much more about you than it does the people you claim don't care
People killing themselves as a result of government austerity policy. And the person who points it out is divisive.
"How dare you suggest they are not actually interested in discussing the actual issue | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" How dare you suggest they are not actually interested in discussing the actual issue" How dare you say that people don't care about people dying. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" How dare you suggest they are not actually interested in discussing the actual issue How dare you say that people don't care about people dying." | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56819727.amp But the public dont care that people are actually dying because of gmnt policy.... " . I think you will find that the DWP have set procedures to follow before they can pay benefits . The deaths are nothing to do with government policy , these procedures would exist regardless of who was in power . The issue that needs to be addressed is why none of their immediate family stepped in to help , or is it a question of being wise after the event ?. These deaths are due to unfortunate sets of circumstances . The public do care , but they also have enough common sense to realise that procedures must be followed before payments can be made | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There's a certain irony in people getting upset about being accused of not caring, and in the process completely ignoring the thing they supposedly care about. Anyway, the assessment system is completely broken and needs fixing. Far too many people are suffering." . It would be interesting to know on what basis you form that opinion . I have processed applications on behalf of a number of third parties and it works perfectly providing you follow the procedures and supply all supporting evidence | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There's a certain irony in people getting upset about being accused of not caring, and in the process completely ignoring the thing they supposedly care about. Anyway, the assessment system is completely broken and needs fixing. Far too many people are suffering.. It would be interesting to know on what basis you form that opinion . I have processed applications on behalf of a number of third parties and it works perfectly providing you follow the procedures and supply all supporting evidence " So an inquiry is not needed? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It's been 11 years since the gmnt were first made aware there was a problem but apparently Its 'shameful 'to point out it may not be high on their list of priorities. Shocked I am. And this has what to do with the public not caring? Which is what you said. Have you ever come across the phrase.. tongue in cheek? Ah. that's you get out clause, is it? Say the public don't care and then say you said it tongue in cheek? That's probably worse than your first statement. You would probably just be better saying sorry - that was a bad statement and that you retract it." | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm sure even tory voters care about these people dying, but it's just lower on their priority list than say, house prices, saving a few quid in taxes each year, and whatever else tories are interested in." Why just because someone voted Tory did they suddenly became less empathetic ? I have never read anything so absurd.
This thread trying to suggest that the way people vote has something to do with how caring they are is utterly ludicrous. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm sure even tory voters care about these people dying, but it's just lower on their priority list than say, house prices, saving a few quid in taxes each year, and whatever else tories are interested in.Why just because someone voted Tory did they suddenly became less empathetic ? I have never read anything so absurd.
This thread trying to suggest that the way people vote has something to do with how caring they are is utterly ludicrous. "The evidence is there. The number of deaths and suicides linked to the claim assessment process is not some mystery. The government has been alerted to it time and time again. The reports are in the public eye. This system is the creation of the tory government, and they perpetuate it... so if you vote tory, you're voting for this system. You're tacitly supporting a system which is driving people to suicide. To me that suggests your priorities must lie elsewhere. It's hardly rocket science. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm sure even tory voters care about these people dying, but it's just lower on their priority list than say, house prices, saving a few quid in taxes each year, and whatever else tories are interested in.Why just because someone voted Tory did they suddenly became less empathetic ? I have never read anything so absurd.
This thread trying to suggest that the way people vote has something to do with how caring they are is utterly ludicrous.
The evidence is there. The number of deaths and suicides linked to the claim assessment process is not some mystery. The government has been alerted to it time and time again. The reports are in the public eye. This system is the creation of the tory government, and they perpetuate it... so if you vote tory, you're voting for this system. You're tacitly supporting a system which is driving people to suicide. To me that suggests your priorities must lie elsewhere. It's hardly rocket science.".Maybe the issue that needs to be addressed is whether the families of the people who died provided sufficient or any support to them when alive . No matter what government is in power there will be deaths in very sad circumstances. If people are seeking blame, maybe it is those who attempt to defraud the system they should assign it to. If the small minority of people did not attempt to defraud the system more resources would be available to those in need and rigorous checks on applications might not be necessary . | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm sure even tory voters care about these people dying, but it's just lower on their priority list than say, house prices, saving a few quid in taxes each year, and whatever else tories are interested in.Why just because someone voted Tory did they suddenly became less empathetic ? I have never read anything so absurd.
This thread trying to suggest that the way people vote has something to do with how caring they are is utterly ludicrous.
The evidence is there. The number of deaths and suicides linked to the claim assessment process is not some mystery. The government has been alerted to it time and time again. The reports are in the public eye. This system is the creation of the tory government, and they perpetuate it... so if you vote tory, you're voting for this system. You're tacitly supporting a system which is driving people to suicide. To me that suggests your priorities must lie elsewhere. It's hardly rocket science..Maybe the issue that needs to be addressed is whether the families of the people who died provided sufficient or any support to them when alive . No matter what government is in power there will be deaths in very sad circumstances.
If people are seeking blame, maybe it is those who attempt to defraud the system they should assign it to.
If the small minority of people did not attempt to defraud the system more resources would be available to those in need and rigorous checks on applications might not be necessary . "Fraud is an unrelated question and suggesting families are to blame is spurious. This is about the health assessments which the government put in place but which were an absolute disgrace from the outset. It has been over a decade and they are still pushing vulnerable people to suicide. The welfare system is supposed to be a safety net for the vulnerable, but many vulnerable people are now dead as a result of the system that is now in place. That's an avoidable tragedy and the government has to bear the blame. Who gave them the power to do this? The people who voted for them. Again, it's pretty simple. Different priorities. If you don't like it and you vote tory then no point getting defensive about it to me. Try looking in a mirror instead. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm sure even tory voters care about these people dying, but it's just lower on their priority list than say, house prices, saving a few quid in taxes each year, and whatever else tories are interested in.Why just because someone voted Tory did they suddenly became less empathetic ? I have never read anything so absurd.
This thread trying to suggest that the way people vote has something to do with how caring they are is utterly ludicrous.
The evidence is there. The number of deaths and suicides linked to the claim assessment process is not some mystery. The government has been alerted to it time and time again. The reports are in the public eye. This system is the creation of the tory government, and they perpetuate it... so if you vote tory, you're voting for this system. You're tacitly supporting a system which is driving people to suicide. To me that suggests your priorities must lie elsewhere. It's hardly rocket science."People often cite the Nordic countries as a way we should go re. Socialist policies. Are you aware that their suicide rates are higher than the UK's? Also, the UK has a rate of 7.9 per 100k. How many of these 7.9 are linked to benefit claims? It's easy to sit in your armchair and shout about the system being at fault but I'd bet my last pound that in the grand scheme of things benefit claims assessments are quite far down the list. Of course it needs work, but everything needs work including helping those people who aren't claiming benefits. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I understand the urge to get defensive, to reach for whattaboutery, or meaningless comparisons, to play the man rather than the ball, and whatever other diversionary tactics you want... but it doesn't alter the situation. You vote for the tories, you're voting for this system as part of that package. You don't think these people's lives are important enough for you to vote for something else. It's a harsh truth but there it is. " Does that mean you are voting for the vast amount of drug deaths in Scotland, or the failing education system perhaps? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I understand the urge to get defensive, to reach for whattaboutery, or meaningless comparisons, to play the man rather than the ball, and whatever other diversionary tactics you want... but it doesn't alter the situation. You vote for the tories, you're voting for this system as part of that package. You don't think these people's lives are important enough for you to vote for something else. It's a harsh truth but there it is. Does that mean you are voting for the vast amount of drug deaths in Scotland, or the failing education system perhaps?" Lol. I asked that earlier. I think that he is being selective in his replies on the issue. Still time for an answer I guess though. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I understand the urge to get defensive, to reach for whattaboutery, or meaningless comparisons, to play the man rather than the ball, and whatever other diversionary tactics you want... but it doesn't alter the situation. You vote for the tories, you're voting for this system as part of that package. You don't think these people's lives are important enough for you to vote for something else. It's a harsh truth but there it is. Does that mean you are voting for the vast amount of drug deaths in Scotland, or the failing education system perhaps?" As I said, whattaboutery. It's predictable. You're welcome to start a thread on those issues if you'd like to learn how they're different from the one we're discussing. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I understand the urge to get defensive, to reach for whattaboutery, or meaningless comparisons, to play the man rather than the ball, and whatever other diversionary tactics you want... but it doesn't alter the situation. You vote for the tories, you're voting for this system as part of that package. You don't think these people's lives are important enough for you to vote for something else. It's a harsh truth but there it is. Does that mean you are voting for the vast amount of drug deaths in Scotland, or the failing education system perhaps? Lol. I asked that earlier. I think that he is being selective in his replies on the issue. Still time for an answer I guess though."More whattaboutery. Irrelevant to my point. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I understand the urge to get defensive, to reach for whattaboutery, or meaningless comparisons, to play the man rather than the ball, and whatever other diversionary tactics you want... but it doesn't alter the situation. You vote for the tories, you're voting for this system as part of that package. You don't think these people's lives are important enough for you to vote for something else. It's a harsh truth but there it is. Does that mean you are voting for the vast amount of drug deaths in Scotland, or the failing education system perhaps? As I said, whattaboutery. It's predictable. You're welcome to start a thread on those issues if you'd like to learn how they're different from the one we're discussing. " Standard | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I understand the urge to get defensive, to reach for whattaboutery, or meaningless comparisons, to play the man rather than the ball, and whatever other diversionary tactics you want... but it doesn't alter the situation. You vote for the tories, you're voting for this system as part of that package. You don't think these people's lives are important enough for you to vote for something else. It's a harsh truth but there it is. Does that mean you are voting for the vast amount of drug deaths in Scotland, or the failing education system perhaps? As I said, whattaboutery. It's predictable. You're welcome to start a thread on those issues if you'd like to learn how they're different from the one we're discussing. Standard "Yep it seems only to apply to tory voters | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Does that mean you are voting for the vast amount of drug deaths in Scotland, or the failing education system perhaps? As I said, whattaboutery. It's predictable. You're welcome to start a thread on those issues if you'd like to learn how they're different from the one we're discussing. " So. Avoiding the question then. There is nothing more **related** to voting for governments that allows deaths to happen because of government policy, than to talk about voting for another government that allows deaths to happen because of government policy.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Does that mean you are voting for the vast amount of drug deaths in Scotland, or the failing education system perhaps? As I said, whattaboutery. It's predictable. You're welcome to start a thread on those issues if you'd like to learn how they're different from the one we're discussing. So. Avoiding the question then. There is nothing more **related** to voting for governments that allows deaths to happen because of government policy, than to talk about voting for another government that allows deaths to happen because of government policy. "Haha - more deflection. You can't argue with my point so you try to shift the goalposts, or just dismiss as someone else did. It's a real weakness but you've got some pals who are in the same boat and don't have an answer either. I'm sure you'll merrily band together and criticise without ever acknowledging I'm right. I would expect nothing less. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Does that mean you are voting for the vast amount of drug deaths in Scotland, or the failing education system perhaps? As I said, whattaboutery. It's predictable. You're welcome to start a thread on those issues if you'd like to learn how they're different from the one we're discussing. So. Avoiding the question then. There is nothing more **related** to voting for governments that allows deaths to happen because of government policy, than to talk about voting for another government that allows deaths to happen because of government policy.
Haha - more deflection. You can't argue with my point so you try to shift the goalposts, or just dismiss as someone else did. It's a real weakness but you've got some pals who are in the same boat and don't have an answer either. I'm sure you'll merrily band together and criticise without ever acknowledging I'm right. I would expect nothing less. "Troll. Next question. lmao | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I understand the urge to get defensive, to reach for whattaboutery, or meaningless comparisons, to play the man rather than the ball, and whatever other diversionary tactics you want... but it doesn't alter the situation. You vote for the tories, you're voting for this system as part of that package. You don't think these people's lives are important enough for you to vote for something else. It's a harsh truth but there it is. Does that mean you are voting for the vast amount of drug deaths in Scotland, or the failing education system perhaps? As I said, whattaboutery. It's predictable. You're welcome to start a thread on those issues if you'd like to learn how they're different from the one we're discussing. " I don’t think it’s whataboutery per se. Do you not think that it’s a similar moral choice voting situation? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I understand the urge to get defensive, to reach for whattaboutery, or meaningless comparisons, to play the man rather than the ball, and whatever other diversionary tactics you want... but it doesn't alter the situation. You vote for the tories, you're voting for this system as part of that package. You don't think these people's lives are important enough for you to vote for something else. It's a harsh truth but there it is. Does that mean you are voting for the vast amount of drug deaths in Scotland, or the failing education system perhaps? As I said, whattaboutery. It's predictable. You're welcome to start a thread on those issues if you'd like to learn how they're different from the one we're discussing. I don’t think it’s whataboutery per se. Do you not think that it’s a similar moral choice voting situation? " I guess to clarify my point somewhat. I’m a green and I have wrestled with the choice that voting Green will lead to hardship in industries that the Greens want banned etc. That will have wider implications on people that could lead to death. But the bigger picture is something I focus on. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56819727.amp But the public dont care that people are actually dying because of gmnt policy...." It is true that some of the public only care about themselves, sadly this is even worse with government, get voted in and no longer give a f*ck about the people in the country, as long as they get their annual pay rise and expenses and big fat pensions and under the table extras. I long, long ago gave up any faith i could have had in Government | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I understand the urge to get defensive, to reach for whattaboutery, or meaningless comparisons, to play the man rather than the ball, and whatever other diversionary tactics you want... but it doesn't alter the situation. You vote for the tories, you're voting for this system as part of that package. You don't think these people's lives are important enough for you to vote for something else. It's a harsh truth but there it is. Does that mean you are voting for the vast amount of drug deaths in Scotland, or the failing education system perhaps? As I said, whattaboutery. It's predictable. You're welcome to start a thread on those issues if you'd like to learn how they're different from the one we're discussing. I don’t think it’s whataboutery per se. Do you not think that it’s a similar moral choice voting situation? I guess to clarify my point somewhat. I’m a green and I have wrestled with the choice that voting Green will lead to hardship in industries that the Greens want banned etc. That will have wider implications on people that could lead to death. But the bigger picture is something I focus on. " There's absolutely a legitimate question about moral choice voting, but it's a wider issue. This thread is about a particular issue. For the record, I think the issues of drug deaths, education, and suicide related to benefits assessments are too diverse to be parcelled up like some seem determined to do. The two issues mentioned are also being actively addressed by government in Scotland, whereas the assessment scandal has been going on for more than a decade with little sign of change. As I said though, these are complicated and worth talking about separately. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"With 1200 people dying of drug related deaths in Scotland just last year and the issue being noted as the ***worst*** drug problem in Europe. And it's been on a meteoric rise since 2000. Two decades! (correction)" It's terrible - absolutely terrible... but the Scottish Government didn't set up the drug trade. The UK government did set up the benefit assessment system. You do understand the difference there, right? Surely it's not that difficult to see. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"With 1200 people dying of drug related deaths in Scotland just last year and the issue being noted as the ***worst*** drug problem in Europe. And it's been on a meteoric rise since 2000. Two decades! (correction)" We should decriminalise like Portugal and some other countries, who seen a drop in addiction soon agter the change, I work with many portuguese people who think it was an excellent move. This is especially true with things like Cannabis. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"With 1200 people dying of drug related deaths in Scotland just last year and the issue being noted as the ***worst*** drug problem in Europe. And it's been on a meteoric rise since 2000. Two decades! (correction) It's terrible - absolutely terrible... but the Scottish Government didn't set up the drug trade. The UK government did set up the benefit assessment system. You do understand the difference there, right? Surely it's not that difficult to see. " To think the UK gov doesnt get a piecee of the drug pie is to ignore sane reasoning. Just another reason why WM need sacked. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"With 1200 people dying of drug related deaths in Scotland just last year and the issue being noted as the ***worst*** drug problem in Europe. And it's been on a meteoric rise since 2000. Two decades! (correction) It's terrible - absolutely terrible... but the Scottish Government didn't set up the drug trade. The UK government did set up the benefit assessment system. You do understand the difference there, right? Surely it's not that difficult to see. " And yet you vote for the fact that the Scottish Government do little about it. As the figures proves. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"With 1200 people dying of drug related deaths in Scotland just last year and the issue being noted as the ***worst*** drug problem in Europe. And it's been on a meteoric rise since 2000. Two decades! (correction) It's terrible - absolutely terrible... but the Scottish Government didn't set up the drug trade. The UK government did set up the benefit assessment system. You do understand the difference there, right? Surely it's not that difficult to see. And yet you vote for the fact that the Scottish Government do little about it. As the figures proves." So you do understand the difference? Yes or no? I've noticed you have a problem directly addressing points. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yes. I can see 'fabtastically' that the Scottish government are institutionally condoning 1200 deaths by drugs last year by doing very little to stop it. I wrote quite a few paragraphs already above answering what your question is here. The condescending tone it doesn't help you cause however, just makes you sounds silly. " Sorry to sound condescending, it's just you don't really seem to know what you're talking about. OK, glad you've acknowledged the difference. So in one case the government has created and perpetuated a system which leads to death. In the other a government is reacting to a situation. I'll assume you can recognise that significant difference too. So now you say the government is "doing very little to stop it". That's demonstrably untrue. They set up an emergency group to look at the issue and are working towards addressing it. They are also somewhat hamstrung because some of the more extreme steps that could be taken to address the issue are not within their power. In fact Glasgow City Council had a recent initiative blocked by Westminster. Now let's compare that to the benefits assessment system. It was created by the tory government, and has been completely under their remit throughout all the complaints and deaths. Still understand the difference? I don't want you to feel like I'm talking down to you but you know, it seems necessary... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Ah it's always someone else's fault - meanwhile keep voting for them killing the population. The rest of your condescension belongs in a playground. You should be ashamed of yourself. " Always someone else's fault? Not at all. This drugs crisis is a cross-society issue and massively complex. The government has a huge role in it too. It's far more complicated than the benefit assessment issue that you seem determined to ignore. And as for being ashamed of myself, I daresay all the lols, laughing faces and the lmao that have peppered your contributions to a discussion about vulnerable people committing suicide say all they need to about your own supposed moral high ground. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Ah it's always someone else's fault - meanwhile keep voting for them killing the population. The rest of your condescension belongs in a playground. You should be ashamed of yourself. Always someone else's fault? Not at all. This drugs crisis is a cross-society issue and massively complex. The government has a huge role in it too. It's far more complicated than the benefit assessment issue that you seem determined to ignore. And as for being ashamed of myself, I daresay all the lols, laughing faces and the lmao that have peppered your contributions to a discussion about vulnerable people committing suicide say all they need to about your own supposed moral high ground." | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"This thread has suddenly made me realise that I'll never vote again. The reason is because every single parties has policies which may be morally wrong so I can't support any of them. Not one "This is one of the genuine reasons I dont vote | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"This thread has suddenly made me realise that I'll never vote again. The reason is because every single parties has policies which may be morally wrong so I can't support any of them. Not one
This is one of the genuine reasons I don't vote"Well if this thread's done anything, it's highlighted that we take onboard all the warts and bumps that the party has when we vote for them. Something to think about moving forward. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You are never going to find a party that you agree with 100% , people have to vote on the issues they think are relevant to them and perceive to be good for the country. Even mp,s vote against some of their parties policies thats democracy at work. To blindly agree with everything your particular party stands for just makes you a fanatic in my book. " If this is the case then people shouldn't feel so defensive. I think it's unfair to say people "don't care" but isn't defending your party, even when they could be doing more fanatical? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You are never going to find a party that you agree with 100% , people have to vote on the issues they think are relevant to them and perceive to be good for the country. Even mp,s vote against some of their parties policies thats democracy at work. To blindly agree with everything your particular party stands for just makes you a fanatic in my book. If this is the case then people shouldn't feel so defensive. I think it's unfair to say people "don't care" but isn't defending your party, even when they could be doing more fanatical?" Yes i would agree with you to a point, defending something that is in defendable is indeed fanatical the grey area comes when you say "could be doing more". | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You are never going to find a party that you agree with 100% , people have to vote on the issues they think are relevant to them and perceive to be good for the country. Even mp,s vote against some of their parties policies thats democracy at work. To blindly agree with everything your particular party stands for just makes you a fanatic in my book. If this is the case then people shouldn't feel so defensive. I think it's unfair to say people "don't care" but isn't defending your party, even when they could be doing more fanatical? Yes I would agree with you to a point, defending something that is in defendable is indeed fanatical the grey area comes when you say "could be doing more". " Well you did say people vote on issues that are relevant to them so it's a "grey area" depending on how important it is to each person. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You are never going to find a party that you agree with 100% , people have to vote on the issues they think are relevant to them and perceive to be good for the country. Even mp,s vote against some of their parties policies thats democracy at work. To blindly agree with everything your particular party stands for just makes you a fanatic in my book. " I agree with this. Lots of people here defend the Tories no matter what, no matter the corruption, nepotism. I'm sure people have defended Labour in the same way. But the current government is untouchable on these forums. But essentially, I agree, and this is also why I couldn't join any political party, they all have policies that I disagree with. And they all have people who, to varying degrees, find abhorrent. It's no secret, but the Tories are the ones I find by far the worst, especially when you delve into their voting records. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You are never going to find a party that you agree with 100% , people have to vote on the issues they think are relevant to them and perceive to be good for the country. Even mp,s vote against some of their parties policies thats democracy at work. To blindly agree with everything your particular party stands for just makes you a fanatic in my book. I agree with this. Lots of people here defend the Tories no matter what, no matter the corruption, nepotism. I'm sure people have defended Labour in the same way. But the current government is untouchable on these forums. But essentially, I agree, and this is also why I couldn't join any political party, they all have policies that I disagree with. And they all have people who, to varying degrees, find abhorrent. It's no secret, but the Tories are the ones I find by far the worst, especially when you delve into their voting records. " Tbh I am no fan of the Tories but I have begrudgingly respected some of their politicians in the past . This current government are inept, corrupt and clueless, the country and the Tory party deserve and can do better | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You are never going to find a party that you agree with 100% , people have to vote on the issues they think are relevant to them and perceive to be good for the country. Even mp,s vote against some of their parties policies thats democracy at work. To blindly agree with everything your particular party stands for just makes you a fanatic in my book. I agree with this. Lots of people here defend the Tories no matter what, no matter the corruption, nepotism. I'm sure people have defended Labour in the same way. But the current government is untouchable on these forums. But essentially, I agree, and this is also why I couldn't join any political party, they all have policies that I disagree with. And they all have people who, to varying degrees, find abhorrent. It's no secret, but the Tories are the ones I find by far the worst, especially when you delve into their voting records. Tbh I am no fan of the Tories but I have begrudgingly respected some of their politicians in the past . This current government are inept, corrupt and clueless, the country and the Tory party deserve and can do better " don’t we just | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56819727.amp But the public dont care that people are actually dying because of gmnt policy.... " people don't give a shit thanks to the "evil dole scroungers" message pumped out by tory scrounging hypocrites like call me dodgy dave Cameron wanting to cream taxpayers money | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I agree with Lionel.. For years the tories have always gone for cutting welfare. Thatcher even wantrd to abolish welfare. Other notable occasion wad Cameron villifying the disabled uding a propaganda to portray people as dcroungers, calling for more cuts to welfare. The piece de resistance being opening disability assessment centres to judge ill and disabled people as "fit for work", ( some of which died a few days later) , removing the assessment of claimant's GPs because the tories didnt want a fair and accurate assessment being made. Fast forward to the present day, child poverty is on the increase, and the same old tory propaganda machine still working a treat on the gullible and easily lead. " Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. In case you missed the first point please quote any report from MT about abolishing welfare | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I agree with Lionel.. For years the tories have always gone for cutting welfare. Thatcher even wantrd to abolish welfare. Other notable occasion wad Cameron villifying the disabled uding a propaganda to portray people as dcroungers, calling for more cuts to welfare. The piece de resistance being opening disability assessment centres to judge ill and disabled people as "fit for work", ( some of which died a few days later) , removing the assessment of claimant's GPs because the tories didnt want a fair and accurate assessment being made. Fast forward to the present day, child poverty is on the increase, and the same old tory propaganda machine still working a treat on the gullible and easily lead. Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. In case you missed the first point please quote any report from MT about abolishing welfare " https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2012/dec/28/margaret-thatcher-role-plan-to-dismantle-welfare-state-revealed She didn’t want to ‘abolish ‘ the welfare state but her ideas were horrific | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I agree with Lionel.. For years the tories have always gone for cutting welfare. Thatcher even wantrd to abolish welfare. Other notable occasion wad Cameron villifying the disabled uding a propaganda to portray people as dcroungers, calling for more cuts to welfare. The piece de resistance being opening disability assessment centres to judge ill and disabled people as "fit for work", ( some of which died a few days later) , removing the assessment of claimant's GPs because the tories didnt want a fair and accurate assessment being made. Fast forward to the present day, child poverty is on the increase, and the same old tory propaganda machine still working a treat on the gullible and easily lead. Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. In case you missed the first point please quote any report from MT about abolishing welfare https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2012/dec/28/margaret-thatcher-role-plan-to-dismantle-welfare-state-revealed She didn’t want to ‘abolish ‘ the welfare state but her ideas were horrific " So the poster lied, is he boris? I'm assuming from the date this only came to light in 2012 so was a report from a cabinet meeting discussing ideas, did it happen ? No did anything like it happen? No, did she ever come out with a speech, media article suggesting it was her policy ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I agree with Lionel.. For years the tories have always gone for cutting welfare. Thatcher even wantrd to abolish welfare. Other notable occasion wad Cameron villifying the disabled uding a propaganda to portray people as dcroungers, calling for more cuts to welfare. The piece de resistance being opening disability assessment centres to judge ill and disabled people as "fit for work", ( some of which died a few days later) , removing the assessment of claimant's GPs because the tories didnt want a fair and accurate assessment being made. Fast forward to the present day, child poverty is on the increase, and the same old tory propaganda machine still working a treat on the gullible and easily lead. Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. In case you missed the first point please quote any report from MT about abolishing welfare https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2012/dec/28/margaret-thatcher-role-plan-to-dismantle-welfare-state-revealed She didn’t want to ‘abolish ‘ the welfare state but her ideas were horrific So the poster lied, is he boris? I'm assuming from the date this only came to light in 2012 so was a report from a cabinet meeting discussing ideas, did it happen ? No did anything like it happen? No, did she ever come out with a speech, media article suggesting it was her policy ? " It’s in the article, you either believe it or you don’t, | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I agree with Lionel.. For years the tories have always gone for cutting welfare. Thatcher even wantrd to abolish welfare. Other notable occasion wad Cameron villifying the disabled uding a propaganda to portray people as dcroungers, calling for more cuts to welfare. The piece de resistance being opening disability assessment centres to judge ill and disabled people as "fit for work", ( some of which died a few days later) , removing the assessment of claimant's GPs because the tories didnt want a fair and accurate assessment being made. Fast forward to the present day, child poverty is on the increase, and the same old tory propaganda machine still working a treat on the gullible and easily lead. Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. In case you missed the first point please quote any report from MT about abolishing welfare " https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/revealed-how-margaret-thatcher-planned-abolish-welfare-and-nhs-362756 And i know your next move : claim its all socialist lies from a local paper. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I agree with Lionel.. For years the tories have always gone for cutting welfare. Thatcher even wantrd to abolish welfare. Other notable occasion wad Cameron villifying the disabled uding a propaganda to portray people as dcroungers, calling for more cuts to welfare. The piece de resistance being opening disability assessment centres to judge ill and disabled people as "fit for work", ( some of which died a few days later) , removing the assessment of claimant's GPs because the tories didnt want a fair and accurate assessment being made. Fast forward to the present day, child poverty is on the increase, and the same old tory propaganda machine still working a treat on the gullible and easily lead. Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. In case you missed the first point please quote any report from MT about abolishing welfare https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2012/dec/28/margaret-thatcher-role-plan-to-dismantle-welfare-state-revealed She didn’t want to ‘abolish ‘ the welfare state but her ideas were horrific So the poster lied, is he boris? I'm assuming from the date this only came to light in 2012 so was a report from a cabinet meeting discussing ideas, did it happen ? No did anything like it happen? No, did she ever come out with a speech, media article suggesting it was her policy ? " Moi a liar? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I agree with Lionel.. For years the tories have always gone for cutting welfare. Thatcher even wantrd to abolish welfare. Other notable occasion wad Cameron villifying the disabled uding a propaganda to portray people as dcroungers, calling for more cuts to welfare. The piece de resistance being opening disability assessment centres to judge ill and disabled people as "fit for work", ( some of which died a few days later) , removing the assessment of claimant's GPs because the tories didnt want a fair and accurate assessment being made. Fast forward to the present day, child poverty is on the increase, and the same old tory propaganda machine still working a treat on the gullible and easily lead. Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. In case you missed the first point please quote any report from MT about abolishing welfare https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/revealed-how-margaret-thatcher-planned-abolish-welfare-and-nhs-362756 And i know your next move : claim its all socialist lies from a local paper. " This is no surprise, she was a heartless witch and when the song went to no1 it should have been played in it entirity on full volume. i still celebrate her passing to this day. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I agree with Lionel.. For years the tories have always gone for cutting welfare. Thatcher even wantrd to abolish welfare. Other notable occasion wad Cameron villifying the disabled uding a propaganda to portray people as dcroungers, calling for more cuts to welfare. The piece de resistance being opening disability assessment centres to judge ill and disabled people as "fit for work", ( some of which died a few days later) , removing the assessment of claimant's GPs because the tories didnt want a fair and accurate assessment being made. Fast forward to the present day, child poverty is on the increase, and the same old tory propaganda machine still working a treat on the gullible and easily lead. Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. In case you missed the first point please quote any report from MT about abolishing welfare https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/revealed-how-margaret-thatcher-planned-abolish-welfare-and-nhs-362756 And i know your next move : claim its all socialist lies from a local paper. This is no surprise, she was a heartless witch and when the song went to no1 it should have been played in it entirity on full volume. i still celebrate her passing to this day." Sad man | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I agree with Lionel.. For years the tories have always gone for cutting welfare. Thatcher even wantrd to abolish welfare. Other notable occasion wad Cameron villifying the disabled uding a propaganda to portray people as dcroungers, calling for more cuts to welfare. The piece de resistance being opening disability assessment centres to judge ill and disabled people as "fit for work", ( some of which died a few days later) , removing the assessment of claimant's GPs because the tories didnt want a fair and accurate assessment being made. Fast forward to the present day, child poverty is on the increase, and the same old tory propaganda machine still working a treat on the gullible and easily lead. Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. In case you missed the first point please quote any report from MT about abolishing welfare https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/revealed-how-margaret-thatcher-planned-abolish-welfare-and-nhs-362756 And i know your next move : claim its all socialist lies from a local paper. This is no surprise, she was a heartless witch and when the song went to no1 it should have been played in it entirity on full volume. i still celebrate her passing to this day." She destroyed a lot of lives. I was in the NHS at the time on a&e. The staff were less than impressed when she shoved in extra non clinical managers that cobtributed absolutely nothing to delivering care yet siphoned off funding | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56819727.amp But the public dont care that people are actually dying because of gmnt policy.... " I thought all this changed, when the woman Who was asked to prove she had terminal cancer for the 2nd or 3rd time , that she was unfit for work & therefore.not entitled to The benefits . Or when the soldier who lost a limb had it stopped as they deemed him fit for work . Maybe i was wrong . Just another part of politics that seems to be overlooked for so long by the winners in hartlepool & similar new blue wall constituencies . | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? " https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/revealed-how-margaret-thatcher-planned-abolish-welfare-and-nhs-362756 " Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. " Yep i agree.. BUT! Assessments need to be fair and not an excuse to cut welfare based on arbitrary bullshit from an assessment centre | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In a shocking development a thread about people dying ,indirectly as a result of gmnt policy,is derailed into a discussion aBout drug deaths in Scotland. A spokesman for the gmnt said this is absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the gmnt takes responsibility for absolutely nothing." If you had addressed the very first reply in this thread (from me) maybe we would've actually known what it was about and wouldn't have gone off on a tangent. What is the thread actually about? The governements policy on welfare or your opinion that people don't care about others? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In your Opinion. It's also quite a few peoples opinion that saying people don't care about others dying is insulting. " Glad you're picking the *important* stuff to get upset about. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
Whatever you say. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Whatever you say. "Glad you're not arguing. I get little enjoyment from such easy work. Enjoy your evening. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Whatever you say.
Glad you're not arguing. I get little enjoyment from such easy work. Enjoy your evening. "How sad  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/revealed-how-margaret-thatcher-planned-abolish-welfare-and-nhs-362756 Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. Yep i agree.. BUT! Assessments need to be fair and not an excuse to cut welfare based on arbitrary bullshit from an assessment centre" As I've said several times nothing happened. As for your other point I'm glad you accept that the principle is correct that those with disabilities can work in ALMOST ALL cases. That doesnt excuse those doing the assessments for making bad decisions in the few that arent capable. What needs to change then is to improve the training for staff | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What needs to change Is people not dying when the gmnt stops their benefits." They arent dying because their benefits stop, the case I saw it was suicide,the family are up in arms, perhaps the family should ask themselves why they didnt help more. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/20/dwp-followed-policy-in-denying-dying-man-stephen-smith-benefits-finds-review Wonder who we can pin the blame for this on? " Stephen Smith didn't die because his benefits were stopped. Error Graham died of starvation. He had family who didn't feed him. His benefits were stopped when he didn't attend or respond to calls, letters and even a home visit. FFS, how can you actually blame the policy for these deaths. The person who made the decision on Stephen Smith clearly got it wrong but they certainly didn't cause his death | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/20/dwp-followed-policy-in-denying-dying-man-stephen-smith-benefits-finds-review Wonder who we can pin the blame for this on? " I guess the person who did the assessment. As I said better training | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Elaine morral froze to death in Manchester after having her benefits stopped." Did she though? From what I can see it never went to an inquest and was reported as natural causes. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"What needs to change Is people not dying when the gmnt stops their benefits. They arent dying because their benefits stop, the case I saw it was suicide,the family are up in arms, perhaps the family should ask themselves why they didnt help more." This is a shocking statement to make! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/revealed-how-margaret-thatcher-planned-abolish-welfare-and-nhs-362756 Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. Yep i agree.. BUT! Assessments need to be fair and not an excuse to cut welfare based on arbitrary bullshit from an assessment centre As I've said several times nothing happened. As for your other point I'm glad you accept that the principle is correct that those with disabilities can work in ALMOST ALL cases. That doesnt excuse those doing the assessments for making bad decisions in the few that arent capable. What needs to change then is to improve the training for staff " What needs to change Is giving people the benefit of doubt. These people are close to the edge in so many ways that a small delay in payments/decisions could push them over. Id prefer a few cheats on benefits (and they'll be caught eventually) rather than fail genuine cases who are driven to suicide or suffering starvation /cold | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/revealed-how-margaret-thatcher-planned-abolish-welfare-and-nhs-362756 Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. Yep i agree.. BUT! Assessments need to be fair and not an excuse to cut welfare based on arbitrary bullshit from an assessment centre As I've said several times nothing happened. As for your other point I'm glad you accept that the principle is correct that those with disabilities can work in ALMOST ALL cases. That doesnt excuse those doing the assessments for making bad decisions in the few that arent capable. What needs to change then is to improve the training for staff What needs to change Is giving people the benefit of doubt. These people are close to the edge in so many ways that a small delay in payments/decisions could push them over. Id prefer a few cheats on benefits (and they'll be caught eventually) rather than fail genuine cases who are driven to suicide or suffering starvation /cold" If there wasnt so many cheats the deserving cases would be dealt with quicker, you are supporting fraud which directly impacts on those who need help. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/revealed-how-margaret-thatcher-planned-abolish-welfare-and-nhs-362756 Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. Yep i agree.. BUT! Assessments need to be fair and not an excuse to cut welfare based on arbitrary bullshit from an assessment centre As I've said several times nothing happened. As for your other point I'm glad you accept that the principle is correct that those with disabilities can work in ALMOST ALL cases. That doesnt excuse those doing the assessments for making bad decisions in the few that arent capable. What needs to change then is to improve the training for staff What needs to change Is giving people the benefit of doubt. These people are close to the edge in so many ways that a small delay in payments/decisions could push them over. Id prefer a few cheats on benefits (and they'll be caught eventually) rather than fail genuine cases who are driven to suicide or suffering starvation /cold" The tories would prefer to demonize everyone who claims benefits as a scrounger. Victimisation Is in their dna. Quite odd they dont seem to keen on going after those at the top who take the piss. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/revealed-how-margaret-thatcher-planned-abolish-welfare-and-nhs-362756 Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. Yep i agree.. BUT! Assessments need to be fair and not an excuse to cut welfare based on arbitrary bullshit from an assessment centre As I've said several times nothing happened. As for your other point I'm glad you accept that the principle is correct that those with disabilities can work in ALMOST ALL cases. That doesnt excuse those doing the assessments for making bad decisions in the few that arent capable. What needs to change then is to improve the training for staff What needs to change Is giving people the benefit of doubt. These people are close to the edge in so many ways that a small delay in payments/decisions could push them over. Id prefer a few cheats on benefits (and they'll be caught eventually) rather than fail genuine cases who are driven to suicide or suffering starvation /cold The tories would prefer to demonize everyone who claims benefits as a scrounger. Victimisation Is in their dna. Quite odd they dont seem to keen on going after those at the top who take the piss." So you want someone at the top prosecuted if they cheat the system but it's ok for those at the bottom not to be. Theft and fraud are crimes . Would you support more effort put into stopping benefit cheats so genuine cases get help quicker ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/20/dwp-followed-policy-in-denying-dying-man-stephen-smith-benefits-finds-review Wonder who we can pin the blame for this on? I guess the person who did the assessment. As I said better training" NO! These capability assessment centres are a failure!! GP assessment should be used but this government are deliberately failing these people! Tell me.. WHY djd the tories invent tbese bollock centres? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/20/dwp-followed-policy-in-denying-dying-man-stephen-smith-benefits-finds-review Wonder who we can pin the blame for this on? I guess the person who did the assessment. As I said better training NO! These capability assessment centres are a failure!! GP assessment should be used but this government are deliberately failing these people! Tell me.. WHY djd the tories invent tbese bollock centres? " M so GPs dont have to make these decisions. You know like a trainer doesnt judge an exam. Or the police decide a court case, its called an independent decision process. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/20/dwp-followed-policy-in-denying-dying-man-stephen-smith-benefits-finds-review Wonder who we can pin the blame for this on? I guess the person who did the assessment. As I said better training NO! These capability assessment centres are a failure!! GP assessment should be used but this government are deliberately failing these people! Tell me.. WHY djd the tories invent tbese bollock centres? " I'm fairly sure they were given targets to meet, for the amount of people they rejected They thought gp surgeries couldnt be trusted, so they gave it to a private firm. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'm sure even tory voters care about these people dying, but it's just lower on their priority list than say, house prices, saving a few quid in taxes each year, and whatever else tories are interested in.Why just because someone voted Tory did they suddenly became less empathetic ? I have never read anything so absurd.
This thread trying to suggest that the way people vote has something to do with how caring they are is utterly ludicrous.
The evidence is there. The number of deaths and suicides linked to the claim assessment process is not some mystery. The government has been alerted to it time and time again. The reports are in the public eye. This system is the creation of the tory government, and they perpetuate it... so if you vote tory, you're voting for this system. You're tacitly supporting a system which is driving people to suicide. To me that suggests your priorities must lie elsewhere. It's hardly rocket science..Maybe the issue that needs to be addressed is whether the families of the people who died provided sufficient or any support to them when alive . No matter what government is in power there will be deaths in very sad circumstances.
If people are seeking blame, maybe it is those who attempt to defraud the system they should assign it to.
If the small minority of people did not attempt to defraud the system more resources would be available to those in need and rigorous checks on applications might not be necessary .
Fraud is an unrelated question and suggesting families are to blame is spurious.
This is about the health assessments which the government put in place but which were an absolute disgrace from the outset. It has been over a decade and they are still pushing vulnerable people to suicide.
The welfare system is supposed to be a safety net for the vulnerable, but many vulnerable people are now dead as a result of the system that is now in place. That's an avoidable tragedy and the government has to bear the blame. Who gave them the power to do this? The people who voted for them. Again, it's pretty simple. Different priorities. If you don't like it and you vote tory then no point getting defensive about it to me. Try looking in a mirror instead. ". If people did not attempt to defraud the system, these assessments would not be necessary in the first instance. If there were fewer fraudsters more money would be available for those in genuine need . If you are trying to aportion blame for suicides ( which seems a very odd thing to do) at least attempt to apportion it correctly over the range of people with whom the people who died came into contact. Maybe blame Doctors 15 % , family for not proving help 25 % , immediate friends 15 % , fraudsters 15 % , curreny government 15 % and previous opposition. 15 % . People do not committ suicide because of governments. .. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/20/dwp-followed-policy-in-denying-dying-man-stephen-smith-benefits-finds-review Wonder who we can pin the blame for this on? I guess the person who did the assessment. As I said better training NO! These capability assessment centres are a failure!! GP assessment should be used but this government are deliberately failing these people! Tell me.. WHY djd the tories invent tbese bollock centres? " To make the system fairer and to ensure that only genuine claimants were awarded benefits. I have submitted an application on behalf of a third party . I simply supplied all the information requested and the process was very straight forward. People must remember that this is public money and some of the awards are quite generous . It is only fair that applicants are thoroughly assessed. The system is potentially wide open to abuse. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Can you produce one statement from MT saying she wanted to abolish welfare ? https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/revealed-how-margaret-thatcher-planned-abolish-welfare-and-nhs-362756 Virtually everyone with a disability can work in some capacity, I have a friend who is in a wheelchair, he is now 67 and works more than 50 hrs a wk, he delivers feed to equestrian owners, and tops, sprays, narrows and rolls their fields using a modified kubota tractor, if he can do that there is very little excuse for others to do some form of work, we have seen this year that it's very possible to work from home, I'm all for supporting those with problems but they also need to help themselves. Yep i agree.. BUT! Assessments need to be fair and not an excuse to cut welfare based on arbitrary bullshit from an assessment centre As I've said several times nothing happened. As for your other point I'm glad you accept that the principle is correct that those with disabilities can work in ALMOST ALL cases. That doesnt excuse those doing the assessments for making bad decisions in the few that arent capable. What needs to change then is to improve the training for staff What needs to change Is giving people the benefit of doubt. These people are close to the edge in so many ways that a small delay in payments/decisions could push them over. Id prefer a few cheats on benefits (and they'll be caught eventually) rather than fail genuine cases who are driven to suicide or suffering starvation /cold The tories would prefer to demonize everyone who claims benefits as a scrounger. Victimisation Is in their dna. Quite odd they dont seem to keen on going after those at the top who take the piss. So you want someone at the top prosecuted if they cheat the system but it's ok for those at the bottom not to be. Theft and fraud are crimes . Would you support more effort put into stopping benefit cheats so genuine cases get help quicker ?" Those at the top don’t cheat the system they are legally allowed to keep their money and not pay tax. Why isn’t this addressed at all and yet benefit claimants who are also acting legally are portrayed as scrounges? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/20/dwp-followed-policy-in-denying-dying-man-stephen-smith-benefits-finds-review Wonder who we can pin the blame for this on? I guess the person who did the assessment. As I said better training NO! These capability assessment centres are a failure!! GP assessment should be used but this government are deliberately failing these people! Tell me.. WHY djd the tories invent tbese bollock centres? To make the system fairer and to ensure that only genuine claimants were awarded benefits. I have submitted an application on behalf of a third party . I simply supplied all the information requested and the process was very straight forward. People must remember that this is public money and some of the awards are quite generous . It is only fair that applicants are thoroughly assessed. The system is potentially wide open to abuse. " Interesting how easy that sounded. Fill in a form. A friend of mine’s wife has had MS for 15 years. For the last four years she has been bedridden. She is unable to speak, move any limbs under control, is incontinent and generally horrifically ill. My friend feeds and bathes her in the morning , GOES TO FULL TIME WORK, then goes home at lunch time to check on her and then at night again cleans and feeds her. He has two visits a day of 30 mins from carers which he pays for. . He pays for respite care from his own pocket when he’s totally exhausted. He is given a small careers allowance which barely scratches his total costs to care for her. This benefit was cut two years ago . He appealed and it was cut again on review. The response was she needs assessing for work!! I’m not making this up. It’s government policy!!!! He has formally complained and we are now eighteen months later with still no answer or explanation. He approached his local MP who fobbed him off with “we have to do checks to avoid fraud’ etc etc. (Another parachuted yes sir MP) Friends are now helping him in supporting a legal challenge. By the time this gets a hearing she will most probably be dead. If he wasn’t working and able to pay and if he didn’t have friends willing to fund his legal challenge he would be heading towards the depression and suicide statistics. It’s a mark of his amazing love for his wife that he hasn’t yet. . The government policy and process is “fatally” flawed and to defend it is to ignore the innocent deaths it directly causes!! It’s the public’s money true. It’s my tax money and I want it to go to those who need it, when they need it! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/20/dwp-followed-policy-in-denying-dying-man-stephen-smith-benefits-finds-review Wonder who we can pin the blame for this on? I guess the person who did the assessment. As I said better training NO! These capability assessment centres are a failure!! GP assessment should be used but this government are deliberately failing these people! Tell me.. WHY djd the tories invent tbese bollock centres? To make the system fairer and to ensure that only genuine claimants were awarded benefits. I have submitted an application on behalf of a third party . I simply supplied all the information requested and the process was very straight forward. People must remember that this is public money and some of the awards are quite generous . It is only fair that applicants are thoroughly assessed. The system is potentially wide open to abuse. Interesting how easy that sounded. Fill in a form. A friend of mine’s wife has had MS for 15 years. For the last four years she has been bedridden. She is unable to speak, move any limbs under control, is incontinent and generally horrifically ill. My friend feeds and bathes her in the morning , GOES TO FULL TIME WORK, then goes home at lunch time to check on her and then at night again cleans and feeds her. He has two visits a day of 30 mins from carers which he pays for. . He pays for respite care from his own pocket when he’s totally exhausted. He is given a small careers allowance which barely scratches his total costs to care for her. This benefit was cut two years ago . He appealed and it was cut again on review. The response was she needs assessing for work!! I’m not making this up. It’s government policy!!!! He has formally complained and we are now eighteen months later with still no answer or explanation. He approached his local MP who fobbed him off with “we have to do checks to avoid fraud’ etc etc. (Another parachuted yes sir MP) Friends are now helping him in supporting a legal challenge. By the time this gets a hearing she will most probably be dead. If he wasn’t working and able to pay and if he didn’t have friends willing to fund his legal challenge he would be heading towards the depression and suicide statistics. It’s a mark of his amazing love for his wife that he hasn’t yet. . The government policy and process is “fatally” flawed and to defend it is to ignore the innocent deaths it directly causes!! It’s the public’s money true. It’s my tax money and I want it to go to those who need it, when they need it! " Politics aside, can we all agree that this is messed up? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Sorry I shouldn’t have ranted but it’s horrific to see his treatment. He’s no scrounger and yet being treated like one . " Obviously it's hard to comment without knowing the details but it sounds bad which is the opposite from the experience we had earlier this year with K's mum when she had a fall and had to come and live with us, the help we had was amazing, I would suggest its not the system but those applying it that is the problem | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Sorry I shouldn’t have ranted but it’s horrific to see his treatment. He’s no scrounger and yet being treated like one . " Everyone is entitled to a bit of a rant from time to time. Sometimes, things close to us leave us unable to rationalise in certain moments and we rant away. Rightly or wrongly, no one will begrudge you that I don't think | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/20/dwp-followed-policy-in-denying-dying-man-stephen-smith-benefits-finds-review Wonder who we can pin the blame for this on? I guess the person who did the assessment. As I said better training NO! These capability assessment centres are a failure!! GP assessment should be used but this government are deliberately failing these people! Tell me.. WHY djd the tories invent tbese bollock centres? To make the system fairer and to ensure that only genuine claimants were awarded benefits. I have submitted an application on behalf of a third party . I simply supplied all the information requested and the process was very straight forward. People must remember that this is public money and some of the awards are quite generous . It is only fair that applicants are thoroughly assessed. The system is potentially wide open to abuse. Interesting how easy that sounded. Fill in a form. A friend of mine’s wife has had MS for 15 years. For the last four years she has been bedridden. She is unable to speak, move any limbs under control, is incontinent and generally horrifically ill. My friend feeds and bathes her in the morning , GOES TO FULL TIME WORK, then goes home at lunch time to check on her and then at night again cleans and feeds her. He has two visits a day of 30 mins from carers which he pays for. . He pays for respite care from his own pocket when he’s totally exhausted. He is given a small careers allowance which barely scratches his total costs to care for her. This benefit was cut two years ago . He appealed and it was cut again on review. The response was she needs assessing for work!! I’m not making this up. It’s government policy!!!! He has formally complained and we are now eighteen months later with still no answer or explanation. He approached his local MP who fobbed him off with “we have to do checks to avoid fraud’ etc etc. (Another parachuted yes sir MP) Friends are now helping him in supporting a legal challenge. By the time this gets a hearing she will most probably be dead. If he wasn’t working and able to pay and if he didn’t have friends willing to fund his legal challenge he would be heading towards the depression and suicide statistics. It’s a mark of his amazing love for his wife that he hasn’t yet. . The government policy and process is “fatally” flawed and to defend it is to ignore the innocent deaths it directly causes!! It’s the public’s money true. It’s my tax money and I want it to go to those who need it, when they need it! " Its inhumane. The only positive I heard was that the complaints procedure has quite a high success rate(for obvious reasons) They are not just going after people who are blagging it...probslly a tiny amount..they are assuming everyone is blagging it. I remember a girl in the mf saying she was in a desperate situation,but didn't want to claim benefits as she was ashamed. That's how much they have stigmatized something which is there to help people. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Sorry I shouldn’t have ranted but it’s horrific to see his treatment. He’s no scrounger and yet being treated like one . Obviously it's hard to comment without knowing the details but it sounds bad which is the opposite from the experience we had earlier this year with K's mum when she had a fall and had to come and live with us, the help we had was amazing, I would suggest its not the system but those applying it that is the problem" Possibly true . His doctor has tried and been dismissed . | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/20/dwp-followed-policy-in-denying-dying-man-stephen-smith-benefits-finds-review Wonder who we can pin the blame for this on? I guess the person who did the assessment. As I said better training NO! These capability assessment centres are a failure!! GP assessment should be used but this government are deliberately failing these people! Tell me.. WHY djd the tories invent tbese bollock centres? To make the system fairer and to ensure that only genuine claimants were awarded benefits. I have submitted an application on behalf of a third party . I simply supplied all the information requested and the process was very straight forward. People must remember that this is public money and some of the awards are quite generous . It is only fair that applicants are thoroughly assessed. The system is potentially wide open to abuse. Interesting how easy that sounded. Fill in a form. A friend of mine’s wife has had MS for 15 years. For the last four years she has been bedridden. She is unable to speak, move any limbs under control, is incontinent and generally horrifically ill. My friend feeds and bathes her in the morning , GOES TO FULL TIME WORK, then goes home at lunch time to check on her and then at night again cleans and feeds her. He has two visits a day of 30 mins from carers which he pays for. . He pays for respite care from his own pocket when he’s totally exhausted. He is given a small careers allowance which barely scratches his total costs to care for her. This benefit was cut two years ago . He appealed and it was cut again on review. The response was she needs assessing for work!! I’m not making this up. It’s government policy!!!! He has formally complained and we are now eighteen months later with still no answer or explanation. He approached his local MP who fobbed him off with “we have to do checks to avoid fraud’ etc etc. (Another parachuted yes sir MP) Friends are now helping him in supporting a legal challenge. By the time this gets a hearing she will most probably be dead. If he wasn’t working and able to pay and if he didn’t have friends willing to fund his legal challenge he would be heading towards the depression and suicide statistics. It’s a mark of his amazing love for his wife that he hasn’t yet. . The government policy and process is “fatally” flawed and to defend it is to ignore the innocent deaths it directly causes!! It’s the public’s money true. It’s my tax money and I want it to go to those who need it, when they need it! Its inhumane. The only positive I heard was that the complaints procedure has quite a high success rate(for obvious reasons) They are not just going after people who are blagging it...probably a tiny amount, they are assuming everyone is blagging it. I remember a girl in the mf saying she was in a desperate situation, but didn't want to claim benefits as she was ashamed. That's how much they have stigmatized something which is there to help people." I agree. People shouldn't feel punished for seeking help. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
