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"Been to Vietnam and observed the terrain and jungle. Must have been hell to move even a kilometer in some areas, let alone fight in it. " 
Plenty of mountain sides still bare from Agent Orange. Harrowing. | |||
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"Not really politics, but if you like your history,I cant recommend this documentary highly enough. It's quite exhaustive (10 episdes)but its superb." Where is it on which channel? | |||
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"Not really politics, but if you like your history,I cant recommend this documentary highly enough. It's quite exhaustive (10 episdes)but its superb.Where is it on which channel?" Dunno what was it was shown on originally,I just watched it on kodi. | |||
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"The stupidity and arrogance of the americans was off the scale. Nixon often seems to bear the responsibility but I think it covers 5 presidents." Very true,Nixon did not start it but because of Watergate became hated and gets blamed for everything. I know of a PM who took us out of the EU which the powers of society hated and a large minority to so blame Boris for all things very very illogical. Nixon did many good things although he was dishonest and corrupt was a good president in many ways.People focus on on one or two things. | |||
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"Not really politics, but if you like your history,I cant recommend this documentary highly enough. It's quite exhaustive (10 episdes)but its superb." The Ken Burns one? Yep. Came out a few years ago and it's excellent. It's as good as his documentary on The Civil War and almost as good as The World At War. All three are worth a rewatch, especially in the middle of a bit of a telly desert. | |||
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"Not really politics, but if you like your history,I cant recommend this documentary highly enough. It's quite exhaustive (10 episdes)but its superb. The Ken Burns one? Yep. Came out a few years ago and it's excellent. It's as good as his documentary on The Civil War and almost as good as The World At War. All three are worth a rewatch, especially in the middle of a bit of a telly desert." Yep that's the one..I'll dig out that civil war one. | |||
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"The stupidity and arrogance of the americans was off the scale. Nixon often seems to bear the responsibility but I think it covers 5 presidents.Very true,Nixon did not start it but because of Watergate became hated and gets blamed for everything. I know of a PM who took us out of the EU which the powers of society hated and a large minority to so blame Boris for all things very very illogical. Nixon did many good things although he was dishonest and corrupt was a good president in many ways.People focus on on one or two things. " Shoe-horning in Boris and the brexit clusterfuck into a thread about Vietnam. And they said it couldn't be done! | |||
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"Not really politics, but if you like your history,I cant recommend this documentary highly enough. It's quite exhaustive (10 episdes)but its superb." And you were calling a post of mine about jobs not being Politics? 
The Series However is Stunning. | |||
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"Not really politics, but if you like your history,I cant recommend this documentary highly enough. It's quite exhaustive (10 episdes)but its superb. And you were calling a post of mine about jobs not being Politics?
The Series However is Stunning."The bit where I said this isnt politics was obviously confusing | |||
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"Not really politics, but if you like your history,I cant recommend this documentary highly enough. It's quite exhaustive (10 episdes)but its superb. And you were calling a post of mine about jobs not being Politics?
The Series However is Stunning.
The bit where I said this isnt politics was obviously confusing "A that makes your rule okay then. Gotcha  | |||
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"The stupidity and arrogance of the americans was off the scale. Nixon often seems to bear the responsibility but I think it covers 5 presidents.Very true,Nixon did not start it but because of Watergate became hated and gets blamed for everything. I know of a PM who took us out of the EU which the powers of society hated and a large minority to so blame Boris for all things very very illogical. Nixon did many good things although he was dishonest and corrupt was a good president in many ways.People focus on on one or two things. " | |||
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"The stupidity and arrogance of the americans was off the scale. Nixon often seems to bear the responsibility but I think it covers 5 presidents." At least five presidents, including Kennedy, but Nixon’s actions before being elected in sabotaging a peace deal for his electoral gain were unbelievable. Even more of a crook than I thought. | |||
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". I know of a PM who took us out of the EU which the powers of society hated and a large minority to so blame Boris for all things very very illogical. Nixon did many good things although he was dishonest and corrupt was a good president in many ways.People focus on on one or two things. " So Nixon was dishonest and corrupt just like Boris Johnson But Nixon also did many good things but Boris Johnson has not. One out of 2 ain't bad I suppose. | |||
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"The stupidity and arrogance of the americans was off the scale. Nixon often seems to bear the responsibility but I think it covers 5 presidents. At least five presidents, including Kennedy, but Nixon’s actions before being elected in sabotaging a peace deal for his electoral gain were unbelievable. Even more of a crook than I thought. " Johnson was just as culpable Escalating the conflict whilst lying to the American public | |||
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"Not really politics, but if you like your history,I cant recommend this documentary highly enough. It's quite exhaustive (10 episdes)but its superb.Where is it on which channel? Dunno what was it was shown on originally,I just watched it on kodi." PBS America, freeview 84 | |||
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"I blame the French  "Joking apart they did the usual thing and ran away leaving the population at the merci of the commies. As an aside we know several people who have back packed their way round Vietnam and say it's a wonderful country with some stunning scenery | |||
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"I blame the French "They did actually quite shamefully,considering they themselves had been occupied in ww2. Still we cant exactly give out lessons in colonialism. Yet the vietnamese people managed to volley the American,French and Japanese . | |||
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"I blame the French
Joking apart they did the usual thing and ran away leaving the population at the merci of the commies.
As an aside we know several people who have back packed their way round Vietnam and say it's a wonderful country with some stunning scenery "When you say commies..you mean the normal vietnamese people? | |||
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"I blame the French
Joking apart they did the usual thing and ran away leaving the population at the merci of the commies.
As an aside we know several people who have back packed their way round Vietnam and say it's a wonderful country with some stunning scenery
When you say commies..you mean the normal vietnamese people?"You say you watched the programme, surely you know where it all started ? The french lost control and an uprising by ho chi ming supported by china led to Vietnam being split in two, the north communist the south not. The USA didnt want the commies taking over, china supported the vietcong, later so did the ussr. The west should have learnt from vietnam that it is easy to overpower countries with better weapons etc but its what you do after is the hard part, it's a shame we didnt learn the lesson, perhaps Iraq and Afghanistan would have turned out differently, as it is said winning the war is easy winning the peace is the hard part | |||
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"I blame the French
Joking apart they did the usual thing and ran away leaving the population at the merci of the commies.
As an aside we know several people who have back packed their way round Vietnam and say it's a wonderful country with some stunning scenery
When you say commies..you mean the normal vietnamese people?
You say you watched the programme, surely you know where it all started ? The french lost control and an uprising by ho chi ming supported by china led to Vietnam being split in two, the north communist the south not. The USA didnt want the commies taking over, china supported the vietcong, later so did the ussr.
The west should have learnt from vietnam that it is easy to overpower countries with better weapons etc but its what you do after is the hard part, it's a shame we didnt learn the lesson, perhaps Iraq and Afghanistan would have turned out differently, as it is said winning the war is easy winning the peace is the hard part"Ho chi minh wanted the country United,the fact that they were 'commies'is completely irrelevant. It's their country. The notion that the country would fall into 'commie'hamds was the flawed reason ,the entire vietnam war was fought An utter disaster. As an aside the Russians constantly urged restraint through the conflict As an other aside..The.americans had far superior power and still got volleyed everywhere. | |||
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"The stupidity and arrogance of the americans was off the scale. Nixon often seems to bear the responsibility but I think it covers 5 presidents.Very true,Nixon did not start it but because of Watergate became hated and gets blamed for everything. I know of a PM who took us out of the EU which the powers of society hated and a large minority to so blame Boris for all things very very illogical. Nixon did many good things although he was dishonest and corrupt was a good president in many ways.People focus on on one or two things. "Welcome back lol  | |||
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"I blame the French
They did actually quite shamefully,considering they themselves had been occupied in ww2.
Still we cant exactly give out lessons in colonialism.
Yet the vietnamese people managed to volley the American,French and Japanese ."Name a country with a better colonial record than ours I’ll wait | |||
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"I blame the French
Joking apart they did the usual thing and ran away leaving the population at the merci of the commies.
As an aside we know several people who have back packed their way round Vietnam and say it's a wonderful country with some stunning scenery "The French were the rulers and didn’t like independence but the poor dead French soldiers had no say in the choice of staying or leaving. France didn’t have the power to fight that far from home and against China so asked for help. America feared china’s influence. Shit political leaders. The soldiers pay dearly. Running away is a cheap shot! | |||
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"I blame the French
They did actually quite shamefully,considering they themselves had been occupied in ww2.
Still we cant exactly give out lessons in colonialism.
Yet the vietnamese people managed to volley the American,French and Japanese .
Name a country with a better colonial record than ours
I’ll wait "In terms of subjegating and exploiting people? I cant..we are the best. | |||
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"Personally I think the Americans used the wrong tactics, as they constantly had to return to an area to fight the enemy that they had previously cleared out. That sounds a lot like Afghanistan." They were incredibly arrogant. They hugely underestimated the vietnamese and thought blowing the shit out of everywhere would win the war. Karma. | |||
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"I blame the French
Joking apart they did the usual thing and ran away leaving the population at the merci of the commies.
As an aside we know several people who have back packed their way round Vietnam and say it's a wonderful country with some stunning scenery
When you say commies..you mean the normal vietnamese people?
You say you watched the programme, surely you know where it all started ? The french lost control and an uprising by ho chi ming supported by china led to Vietnam being split in two, the north communist the south not. The USA didnt want the commies taking over, china supported the vietcong, later so did the ussr.
The west should have learnt from vietnam that it is easy to overpower countries with better weapons etc but its what you do after is the hard part, it's a shame we didnt learn the lesson, perhaps Iraq and Afghanistan would have turned out differently, as it is said winning the war is easy winning the peace is the hard part
Ho chi minh wanted the country United,the fact that they were 'commies'is completely irrelevant.
It's their country.
The notion that the country would fall into 'commie'hamds was the flawed reason ,the entire vietnam war was fought
An utter disaster.
As an aside the Russians constantly urged restraint through the conflict
As an other aside..The.americans had far superior power and still got volleyed everywhere.
"Later in the war russia provided lots of equipment etc, talk is cheap, say one thing to look good and supply weapons. Yes it was their country did they ask for the communists to take over ? If they had a vote then fair enough. | |||
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"I blame the French
Joking apart they did the usual thing and ran away leaving the population at the merci of the commies.
As an aside we know several people who have back packed their way round Vietnam and say it's a wonderful country with some stunning scenery
When you say commies..you mean the normal vietnamese people?
You say you watched the programme, surely you know where it all started ? The french lost control and an uprising by ho chi ming supported by china led to Vietnam being split in two, the north communist the south not. The USA didnt want the commies taking over, china supported the vietcong, later so did the ussr.
The west should have learnt from vietnam that it is easy to overpower countries with better weapons etc but its what you do after is the hard part, it's a shame we didnt learn the lesson, perhaps Iraq and Afghanistan would have turned out differently, as it is said winning the war is easy winning the peace is the hard part
Ho chi minh wanted the country United,the fact that they were 'commies'is completely irrelevant.
It's their country.
The notion that the country would fall into 'commie'hamds was the flawed reason ,the entire vietnam war was fought
An utter disaster.
As an aside the Russians constantly urged restraint through the conflict
As an other aside..The.americans had far superior power and still got volleyed everywhere.
Later in the war russia provided lots of equipment etc, talk is cheap, say one thing to look good and supply weapons.
Yes it was their country did they ask for the communists to take over ? If they had a vote then fair enough. "The war was nothing to do with communism. They simply wanted natinal self determination. Ironically it was the capitalists in the south,with americans blessing,who did the rigged elections. They provided some munitions but they consistently urged restraint. The americans have to have their bogey man | |||
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"I blame the French
Joking apart they did the usual thing and ran away leaving the population at the merci of the commies.
As an aside we know several people who have back packed their way round Vietnam and say it's a wonderful country with some stunning scenery
When you say commies..you mean the normal vietnamese people?
You say you watched the programme, surely you know where it all started ? The french lost control and an uprising by ho chi ming supported by china led to Vietnam being split in two, the north communist the south not. The USA didnt want the commies taking over, china supported the vietcong, later so did the ussr.
The west should have learnt from vietnam that it is easy to overpower countries with better weapons etc but its what you do after is the hard part, it's a shame we didnt learn the lesson, perhaps Iraq and Afghanistan would have turned out differently, as it is said winning the war is easy winning the peace is the hard part
Ho chi minh wanted the country United,the fact that they were 'commies'is completely irrelevant.
It's their country.
The notion that the country would fall into 'commie'hamds was the flawed reason ,the entire vietnam war was fought
An utter disaster.
As an aside the Russians constantly urged restraint through the conflict
As an other aside..The.americans had far superior power and still got volleyed everywhere.
Later in the war russia provided lots of equipment etc, talk is cheap, say one thing to look good and supply weapons.
Yes it was their country did they ask for the communists to take over ? If they had a vote then fair enough. "You realise ho chi minh was vietnamese? I'm not sure where you are getting this.. The communists are going to take over narrative from? | |||
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"If anyone wants to read more about it, Max Hastings book on Vietnam is a great read and gives an insight into the french participation and then the Americans and a few times that the french attempted to give advice to the Americans and the way they dismissed it. " | |||
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"Yes ming was vietnamese, he led a chinese backed uprising against the French rulers who did their usual trick and ran off, after that Vietnam was divided into two, the south didn't want the north to take over it hence the US stepped in, unlike Korea they failed in the end to keep the commies out. Do you think a one party communist state is a good way to run a country ? I'm 100% sure you wouldnt support a one party racist state, " You seem completely obsessed with communism. It's their country..let them run it how they see fit. I'm not even sure where the racist bit comes into it. The bit about the south not wanting the north to take over is completely inaccurate..its one country. It wasmt didived by 'commies 'in the north and capitalists in the south. | |||
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"Yes ming was vietnamese, he led a chinese backed uprising against the French rulers who did their usual trick and ran off, after that Vietnam was divided into two, the south didn't want the north to take over it hence the US stepped in, unlike Korea they failed in the end to keep the commies out. Do you think a one party communist state is a good way to run a country ? I'm 100% sure you wouldnt support a one party racist state, You seem completely obsessed with communism. It's their country..let them run it how they see fit. I'm not even sure where the racist bit comes into it. The bit about the south not wanting the north to take over is completely inaccurate..its one country. It wasmt didived by 'commies 'in the north and capitalists in the south." Sorry auro correct, it should have said fascist. Of course it's their country but they dont get the choice to become democratic do they, and while it was originally one country and is again now it was two countries the communist north and democratic south, ho chi ming wanted it all commie and was supported by China to start a war with the south, just like korea. Communism is wonderful in theory, in reality it's a failure, it's just a different type of dictatorship, no choice no chance of chance and as we have so often disagree and then you disappear, it's just as bad a a fascist regime, dont you agree ? | |||
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"Yes ming was vietnamese, he led a chinese backed uprising against the French rulers who did their usual trick and ran off, after that Vietnam was divided into two, the south didn't want the north to take over it hence the US stepped in, unlike Korea they failed in the end to keep the commies out. Do you think a one party communist state is a good way to run a country ? I'm 100% sure you wouldnt support a one party racist state, You seem completely obsessed with communism. It's their country..let them run it how they see fit. I'm not even sure where the racist bit comes into it. The bit about the south not wanting the north to take over is completely inaccurate..its one country. It wasmt didived by 'commies 'in the north and capitalists in the south. Sorry auro correct, it should have said fascist. Of course it's their country but they dont get the choice to become democratic do they, and while it was originally one country and is again now it was two countries the communist north and democratic south, ho chi ming wanted it all commie and was supported by China to start a war with the south, just like korea. Communism is wonderful in theory, in reality it's a failure, it's just a different type of dictatorship, no choice no chance of chance and as we have so often disagree and then you disappear, it's just as bad a a fascist regime, dont you agree ? " Facism is the complete opposite to communism It meant a communist north and democratic south. As mentioned earlier the "demovractic"south was ruled by a corrupt,despised leadership and it was spectually undemocratic. Ho chi Minh just wanted the country United and the french and anericans out | |||
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"I meant it wasnt a communist and democratic south." No of course it wasnt, try reading a few history books. | |||
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"I meant it wasnt a communist and democratic south. No of course it wasnt, try reading a few history books." You said it was. | |||
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"I meant it wasnt a communist and democratic south. No of course it wasnt, try reading a few history books. You said it was." Oh dear, I really don't know whether you believe the stuff you post or are just having a laugh, in this case look at some facts and what happened in Vietnam from the end of WW2. I notice you still eont acknowledge that a one party communist state is as bad as a fascist one, no choice, no freedom no vote | |||
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"I meant it wasnt a communist and democratic south. No of course it wasnt, try reading a few history books. You said it was. Oh dear, I really don't know whether you believe the stuff you post or are just having a laugh, in this case look at some facts and what happened in Vietnam from the end of WW2. I notice you still eont acknowledge that a one party communist state is as bad as a fascist one, no choice, no freedom no vote" Because I keep repeating, the main wish of the vietnamese people was to turf the french and Americans out of the country. You are the one who is seemingly obsessed with communism ,when it was the capitalists who were solely responsible for the death and destruction that inflicted on that country. | |||
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"Not really politics, but if you like your history,I cant recommend this documentary highly enough. It's quite exhaustive (10 episdes)but its superb." If this is the Ken Burns doc I saw a couple of years ago then yes it is utterly gripping. War documentaries aren't usually my thing but this had me glued to the tele for 10 hours straight | |||
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"Not really politics, but if you like your history,I cant recommend this documentary highly enough. It's quite exhaustive (10 episdes)but its superb. If this is the Ken Burns doc I saw a couple of years ago then yes it is utterly gripping. War documentaries aren't usually my thing but this had me glued to the tele for 10 hours straight " Yep that's the one | |||
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"Can recommend the book by Max Hastings "Vietnam, An Epic Tragedy" as well. Goes very deep. As an aside, Jonathan Van Tam's Grandfather was a PM of Vietnam, and his Uncle was a General in the Vietnamese army. "Dan Carlin's Podcast with him on was quite good also | |||
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