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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea?" Why not? | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea?" What’s the issue? Why you asking the question? | |||
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"There was exactly the same thread a few days ago, as always it got mixed reactions with some loving it and others being offended by it. I think it's a good thing " Why change it from what we have always had...? | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea?" Not before time either. We've had too many years of flying that blue rag. | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea?" Will it antagonise the sharks into making unprovoked attacks | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea?" Its our national flag so why not | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea?" Don't we fly thw Union Flag anyway? It's the flag of our country, so I don't see why there would be any controversy. | |||
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"There was exactly the same thread a few days ago, as always it got mixed reactions with some loving it and others being offended by it. I think it's a good thing Why change it from what we have always had...? What have we always had flag wise on government buildings ? " Currently only flown on designated days. It isn’t going to change my world either way. Just seems like another distraction from real issues - if it wasn’t needed pre EC, then why now... | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea?" Great idea. We should start flying the St George flag as well. This country has lost it's identity. | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? What’s the issue? Why you asking the question? " To find out what other fab member's opinions are on the subject perhaps | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea?" Well we are in the United Kingdom, not Africa or America, China, Israel, Iceland or any other country so why shouldn't we fly our nation's flag. If people find it offensive then bugger off to somewhere that doesn't offend you. But I also think we should in England also fly the flag of St George and reclaim it back from the far right . Scotland and Wales proudly fly their national flags. It's possible to be patriotic without being racist. | |||
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"There was exactly the same thread a few days ago, as always it got mixed reactions with some loving it and others being offended by it. I think it's a good thing Why change it from what we have always had...? What have we always had flag wise on government buildings ? Currently only flown on designated days. It isn’t going to change my world either way. Just seems like another distraction from real issues - if it wasn’t needed pre EC, then why now..." Sorry I deleted it by mistake 
I think it might be to try to raise people's pride in their own country, might be a stealth way of getting people to support British industry etc.
I like seeing flags flying on American homes and business's when I travel there.
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Will it antagonise the sharks into making unprovoked attacks" I take it it was you who mentioned about people being offended by it..... if you are going to listen to Facebook propaganda rubbish that goes round then that’s the problem right there. Do you honestly think terrorist are concerned with a flag? | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Will it antagonise the sharks into making unprovoked attacks I take it it was you who mentioned about people being offended by it..... if you are going to listen to Facebook propaganda rubbish that goes round then that’s the problem right there. Do you honestly think terrorist are concerned with a flag? " Errrrmmm have you never seen footage of terrorist's burning American flags? | |||
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"There was exactly the same thread a few days ago, as always it got mixed reactions with some loving it and others being offended by it. I think it's a good thing Why change it from what we have always had...? What have we always had flag wise on government buildings ? Currently only flown on designated days. It isn’t going to change my world either way. Just seems like another distraction from real issues - if it wasn’t needed pre EC, then why now..." I work in a government building. It is always flown there, along with our department flag and a hidden heroes flag | |||
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"There was exactly the same thread a few days ago, as always it got mixed reactions with some loving it and others being offended by it. I think it's a good thing Why change it from what we have always had...? What have we always had flag wise on government buildings ? Currently only flown on designated days. It isn’t going to change my world either way. Just seems like another distraction from real issues - if it wasn’t needed pre EC, then why now..." Was it not done pre EC then? I feel sure it was. | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Will it antagonise the sharks into making unprovoked attacks I take it it was you who mentioned about people being offended by it..... if you are going to listen to Facebook propaganda rubbish that goes round then that’s the problem right there. Do you honestly think terrorist are concerned with a flag? Errrrmmm have you never seen footage of terrorist's burning American flags? " Uhhh but do you think that is the sole purpose for it being burnt? I’m just saying if people decide to fly flags every day it’s not going to cause an increase in attacks because of that | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Will it antagonise the sharks into making unprovoked attacks I take it it was you who mentioned about people being offended by it..... if you are going to listen to Facebook propaganda rubbish that goes round then that’s the problem right there. Do you honestly think terrorist are concerned with a flag? Errrrmmm have you never seen footage of terrorist's burning American flags? " Leave us out of this  | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Don't we fly thw Union Flag anyway? It's the flag of our country, so I don't see why there would be any controversy. " Technically no if your from England then should be the Cross of St. George | |||
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"Country - UK Flag of country - Union Jack Next topic ..." The uk is not a country Its a union of 4 countries | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Don't we fly thw Union Flag anyway? It's the flag of our country, so I don't see why there would be any controversy. Technically no if your from England then should be the Cross of St. George" Borrow the Hawaiian flag. It's close  | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Great idea. We should start flying the St George flag as well. This country has lost it's identity. " Great idea, fly the Genoese flag on UK government buildings | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Don't we fly thw Union Flag anyway? It's the flag of our country, so I don't see why there would be any controversy. " Its not the flag of Scotland N Ireland Wales England Its the flag of the Union | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Why not?" Because he's got his big spoon out and wants to stir a pot | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea?" Great idea. We need to rediscover a bit of national pride. | |||
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"Country - UK Flag of country - Union Jack Next topic ... The uk is not a country Its a union of 4 countries " Ffs there's always one. The clue is in 'Union' | |||
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"I wouldn't notice if they flew a huge pair of granny bloomers up there." Granny Crumpet Bloomers.. Fortune on ebay.. | |||
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"It's the Union flag.. It's only the Union Jack when on a Royal Navy vessel" Haha good old wikipedia what would we do without it | |||
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"Country - UK Flag of country - Union Jack Next topic ... The uk is not a country Its a union of 4 countries Ffs there's always one. The clue is in 'Union'" so its not a country , is the European union a country no its a union the clues in the word union | |||
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"Just look at how flag proud the Americans are, not just flown on civic buildings, but private homes, We got moaned at for flying the Union flag from the pub" Always flying on our house. It's a choice. Along with other flags. | |||
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"Country - UK Flag of country - Union Jack Next topic ... The uk is not a country Its a union of 4 countries Ffs there's always one. The clue is in 'Union' so its not a country , is the European union a country no its a union the clues in the word union " And yet they all fly the same blue flag proudly alongside their own. | |||
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"Country - UK Flag of country - Union Jack Next topic ... The uk is not a country Its a union of 4 countries Ffs there's always one. The clue is in 'Union' so its not a country , is the European union a country no its a union the clues in the word union And yet they all fly the same blue flag proudly alongside their own. " British troops did not fly the blue union flag in combat. They took pride and flew the jack. Same as other eu countries. | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Great idea. We should start flying the St George flag as well. This country has lost it's identity. " Yes I agree with this...where is our St George's flag?  | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Great idea. We should start flying the St George flag as well. This country has lost it's identity. Yes I agree with this...where is our St George's flag? "Have you checked the kitchen drawers? | |||
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"Country - UK Flag of country - Union Jack Next topic ..." Up till now people were call the flag by its right name Union Flag.An not Union jack, an jack is the pole its flown from. | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Great idea. We should start flying the St George flag as well. This country has lost it's identity. Yes I agree with this...where is our St George's flag?
Have you checked the kitchen drawers?"At least here the far right have taken a flag. In Australia they've taken a freaking constellation  | |||
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"It's the Union flag.. It's only the Union Jack when on a Royal Navy vessel" Thats not fully correct, its still the union flag an is flown from a jack staff. | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Great idea. We should start flying the St George flag as well. This country has lost it's identity. Yes I agree with this...where is our St George's flag?
Have you checked the kitchen drawers?
At least here the far right have taken a flag. In Australia they've taken a freaking constellation "Speaking as a american so glad the majority agree with national pride. It's your identity fills my heat with joy. | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Great idea. We should start flying the St George flag as well. This country has lost it's identity. Yes I agree with this...where is our St George's flag?
Have you checked the kitchen drawers?
At least here the far right have taken a flag. In Australia they've taken a freaking constellation
Speaking as a american so glad the majority agree with national pride. It's your identity fills my heat with joy."My heat is also joyful  | |||
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"Flag What’s that fluttering in a breeze? Its just a piece of cloth that brings a nation to its knees. What’s that unfurling from a pole? It’s just a piece of cloth that makes the guts of men grow bold. What’s that rising over a tent? It’s just a piece of cloth that dares the coward to relent. What’s that flying across a field? It’s just a piece of cloth that will outlive the blood you bleed. How can I possess such a cloth? Just ask for a flag my friend. Then blind your conscience to the end. John Agard Think it means or stimulates different feelings in different people. It’s a good question to ask I think. My opinion, in so far as it’s worth as much as any other person, is that I would like to see more of it, it’s a chance to rebuild our national identity and reputation. But it’s just an opinion fluttering about on the internet."  | |||
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"Oh look, a flag. *points* *Government hurridly burries all it's unsavory business whilst we all argue about it*" Oh look flag soldier that came home beneath it. No arguments no unsavory business. Just a poinant point in life that instills national pride and values. Sacrafice. | |||
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"Oh look, a flag. *points* *Government hurridly burries all it's unsavory business whilst we all argue about it*" | |||
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"Oh look, a flag. *points* *Government hurridly burries all it's unsavory business whilst we all argue about it* Oh look flag soldier that came home beneath it. No arguments no unsavory business. Just a poinant point in life that instills national pride and values. Sacrafice." And of course. That example is perfectly acceptable. However recent events are in no way about that. It's a different, more farcical kind of Patriotism. Much akin to the USA tubthumping blind patriotism variety. Either that or the Tories just bought shares in Duvet sized sofaside flag manufacturers. | |||
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"Oh look, a flag. *points* *Government hurridly burries all it's unsavory business whilst we all argue about it* Oh look flag soldier that came home beneath it. No arguments no unsavory business. Just a poinant point in life that instills national pride and values. Sacrafice. And of course. That example is perfectly acceptable. However recent events are in no way about that. It's a different, more farcical kind of Patriotism. Much akin to the USA tubthumping blind patriotism variety. Either that or the Tories just bought shares in Duvet sized sofaside flag manufacturers. " We got bigger seen flags that block out the sun. Patriotism is a choice not a demand. | |||
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"Don’t see the problem could you imagine going to America and saying don’t fly your flag it offends people get it flown from all government buildings and town halls if people offended tough " Has anyone actually stopped you flying a flag? | |||
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"Oh look, a flag. *points* *Government hurridly burries all it's unsavory business whilst we all argue about it* Oh look flag soldier that came home beneath it. No arguments no unsavory business. Just a poinant point in life that instills national pride and values. Sacrafice. And of course. That example is perfectly acceptable. However recent events are in no way about that. It's a different, more farcical kind of Patriotism. Much akin to the USA tubthumping blind patriotism variety. Either that or the Tories just bought shares in Duvet sized sofaside flag manufacturers. We got bigger seen flags that block out the sun. Patriotism is a choice not a demand. " If someone has a bigger flag than yours does that make them more patriotic? | |||
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"Love the idea...every household should fly it every street lampost should fly it..and here in England it should be the Saint George flag too..we should fly our flags high and be proud! This country as sadly lost its pride so time to wake up and be proud. Nfse OCS " What if every household doesnt want to fly it? | |||
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"Love the idea...every household should fly it every street lampost should fly it..and here in England it should be the Saint George flag too..we should fly our flags high and be proud! This country as sadly lost its pride so time to wake up and be proud. Nfse OCS " Would it be a good idea to try to make the country a better place first, or just go directly to the flag on every gaff thing? | |||
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"Love the idea...every household should fly it every street lampost should fly it..and here in England it should be the Saint George flag too..we should fly our flags high and be proud! This country as sadly lost its pride so time to wake up and be proud. Nfse OCS What if every household doesnt want to fly it?" You have to, and on every single lamppost otherwise we will lose our identity and pride | |||
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"Love the idea...every household should fly it every street lampost should fly it..and here in England it should be the Saint George flag too..we should fly our flags high and be proud! This country as sadly lost its pride so time to wake up and be proud. Nfse OCS What if every household doesnt want to fly it? You have to, and on every single lamppost otherwise we will lose our identity and pride " | |||
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"Love the idea...every household should fly it every street lampost should fly it..and here in England it should be the Saint George flag too..we should fly our flags high and be proud! This country as sadly lost its pride so time to wake up and be proud. Nfse OCS Would it be a good idea to try to make the country a better place first, or just go directly to the flag on every gaff thing?" Nah, it has to be flags first, a country can only be great if it has millions of flags . | |||
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"Just look at how flag proud the Americans are, not just flown on civic buildings, but private homes, We got moaned at for flying the Union flag from the pub" Except you dont do you? When the world cup is on there are flags everywhere. | |||
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"Oh look, a flag. *points* *Government hurridly burries all it's unsavory business whilst we all argue about it* Oh look flag soldier that came home beneath it. No arguments no unsavory business. Just a poinant point in life that instills national pride and values. Sacrafice. And of course. That example is perfectly acceptable. However recent events are in no way about that. It's a different, more farcical kind of Patriotism. Much akin to the USA tubthumping blind patriotism variety. Either that or the Tories just bought shares in Duvet sized sofaside flag manufacturers. We got bigger seen flags that block out the sun. Patriotism is a choice not a demand. If someone has a bigger flag than yours does that make them more patriotic? " Idk paying for a flag the size of a football field you can ask them. I can not afford one. But my standard one works for me. Along with my old unit colors and a P.O.W flag. Maybe the gay couple down the street that fly the American flag along with the lgbtq flag can answer that question. Pride Patriotism definitely. Just my opinion. Can't say those standards of self pride will apply there. | |||
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"Oh look, a flag. *points* *Government hurridly burries all it's unsavory business whilst we all argue about it*" | |||
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"Oh look, a flag. *points* *Government hurridly burries all it's unsavory business whilst we all argue about it* Oh look flag soldier that came home beneath it. No arguments no unsavory business. Just a poinant point in life that instills national pride and values. Sacrafice. And of course. That example is perfectly acceptable. However recent events are in no way about that. It's a different, more farcical kind of Patriotism. Much akin to the USA tubthumping blind patriotism variety. Either that or the Tories just bought shares in Duvet sized sofaside flag manufacturers. We got bigger seen flags that block out the sun. Patriotism is a choice not a demand. If someone has a bigger flag than yours does that make them more patriotic? Idk paying for a flag the size of a football field you can ask them. I can not afford one. But my standard one works for me. Along with my old unit colors and a P.O.W flag. Maybe the gay couple down the street that fly the American flag along with the lgbtq flag can answer that question. Pride Patriotism definitely. Just my opinion. Can't say those standards of self pride will apply there." So it’s not the size that is important? | |||
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"Oh look, a flag. *points* *Government hurridly burries all it's unsavory business whilst we all argue about it* Oh look flag soldier that came home beneath it. No arguments no unsavory business. Just a poinant point in life that instills national pride and values. Sacrafice. And of course. That example is perfectly acceptable. However recent events are in no way about that. It's a different, more farcical kind of Patriotism. Much akin to the USA tubthumping blind patriotism variety. Either that or the Tories just bought shares in Duvet sized sofaside flag manufacturers. We got bigger seen flags that block out the sun. Patriotism is a choice not a demand. If someone has a bigger flag than yours does that make them more patriotic? Idk paying for a flag the size of a football field you can ask them. I can not afford one. But my standard one works for me. Along with my old unit colors and a P.O.W flag. Maybe the gay couple down the street that fly the American flag along with the lgbtq flag can answer that question. Pride Patriotism definitely. Just my opinion. Can't say those standards of self pride will apply there. So it’s not the size that is important? " Idk I am a woman I will argue about that.  | |||
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"Oh look, a flag. *points* *Government hurridly burries all it's unsavory business whilst we all argue about it* Oh look flag soldier that came home beneath it. No arguments no unsavory business. Just a poinant point in life that instills national pride and values. Sacrafice." | |||
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"I wouldnt even waist my piss on the butchers apron" Would you wipe your arse on it ? | |||
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"I wouldnt even waist my piss on the butchers apron" Harsh but fair | |||
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"I wouldnt even waist my piss on the butchers apron Would you wipe your arse on it ? " I honestly couldn't touch that flag | |||
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"I wouldnt even waist my piss on the butchers apron Would you wipe your arse on it ? I honestly couldn't touch that flag " Do you need to? | |||
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"Just look at how flag proud the Americans are, not just flown on civic buildings, but private homes, We got moaned at for flying the Union flag from the pub Except you dont do you? When the world cup is on there are flags everywhere. " If you remember (according to the media) flags for teams were allowed but union flag was specifically not allowed | |||
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"I wouldnt even waist my piss on the butchers apron Would you wipe your arse on it ? I honestly couldn't touch that flag Do you need to? " Nope and never will as I'm scottish not british | |||
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"I wouldnt even waist my piss on the butchers apron Would you wipe your arse on it ? I honestly couldn't touch that flag Do you need to? Nope and never will as I'm scottish not british " Oh...damn! Look at the Union Jack, you’ll see your flag, the blue and white. It’s all our flag, seriously hope you know this! | |||
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"I wouldnt even waist my piss on the butchers apron Would you wipe your arse on it ? I honestly couldn't touch that flag Do you need to? Nope and never will as I'm scottish not british Oh...damn! Look at the Union Jack, you’ll see your flag, the blue and white. It’s all our flag, seriously hope you know this!" Never my flag,who in their right mind would want to be associated to a flag of tyranny,oppression and murder | |||
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"Love the idea...every household should fly it every street lampost should fly it..and here in England it should be the Saint George flag too..we should fly our flags high and be proud! This country as sadly lost its pride so time to wake up and be proud. Nfse OCS What if every household doesnt want to fly it?" Lionel.. surely you need a flag when you man the barricades.. Sorry ...let's be inclusive.. Not just men.. | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom." | |||
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"Surely we all are equal and feel equal.. " How'd you see it panning out in NI? | |||
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"Surely we all are equal and feel equal.. " This comment actually encapsulates the issue in eight words. It reminds me of the white guy on QT last year announcing with absolute conviction that Britain was the least racist country in the world. | |||
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"Surely we all are equal and feel equal.. How'd you see it panning out in NI? " Just all hug each other .. | |||
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"Surely we all are equal and feel equal.. This comment actually encapsulates the issue in eight words. It reminds me of the white guy on QT last year announcing with absolute conviction that Britain was the least racist country in the world." There are worse alternatives.Not every country is perfect. | |||
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"Surely we all are equal and feel equal.. " We are not equal and that is why there is overwhelming support for scottish independence,our countries are going different ways now england is more right wing and dare I say racist under the tories and we will not be part of that | |||
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"Surely we all are equal and feel equal.. This comment actually encapsulates the issue in eight words. It reminds me of the white guy on QT last year announcing with absolute conviction that Britain was the least racist country in the world. There are worse alternatives.Not every country is perfect." To be fair...we are inclusive and loving of all groups.. not perfect but bloody good | |||
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"I wouldnt even waist my piss on the butchers apron Would you wipe your arse on it ? I honestly couldn't touch that flag Do you need to? Nope and never will as I'm scottish not british " Unfortunately for you you're both Scottish and British, impossible to split the 2 until Scotland gains independence | |||
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"Surely we all are equal and feel equal.. How'd you see it panning out in NI? Just all hug each other .. " Yeah, I'm sure that'll work well | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom." I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... " How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example." Exactly, there are people who are ‘easily offended’ by people who don’t want to fly the flag, there are people who are ‘easily offended’ by people who don’t stand and sing the national anthem. There are ‘easily offended’ snowflakes on both sides of the argument | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example." Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream.. | |||
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"Surely we all are equal and feel equal.. This comment actually encapsulates the issue in eight words. It reminds me of the white guy on QT last year announcing with absolute conviction that Britain was the least racist country in the world." | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream.. "Unfortunately , that ‘type’ of government will never get voted in  | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream.. "Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society? I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities. | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities. "We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity. | |||
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" We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity. " I don't think flying the Union flag hither and thither will provide the shared identity that our multi cultural country needs... | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
"So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer? | |||
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"A fish shop in Leeds has started selling battered chip butties" We're well ahead of you here! A local chippy was on the news for exactly this last week! | |||
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" So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?" Waving flags is easy. Working on society is hard. | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?"Is there a time limit on getting the answers to you ?  I'm a bit busy at the minute, but lunch time might be possible
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
Is there a time limit on getting the answers to you ? I'm a bit busy at the minute, but lunch time might be possible
"No time limit 
Was just curious on your opinion, seeing as you replied. | |||
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"Has anyone you know tried one..." No. I won't be trying one because my arteries baulk at the idea  | |||
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" We're well ahead of you here! A local chippy was on the news for exactly this last week!" In Leeds they are only £2.80 and come with chips plus your choice of gravy, curry sauce or mushy peas. | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream.. "Yes - Covid has made this a real necessity. | |||
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" We're well ahead of you here! A local chippy was on the news for exactly this last week! In Leeds they are only £2.80 and come with chips plus your choice of gravy, curry sauce or mushy peas. " Only £2 here and yes, you can have curry sauce, mushy peas etc too | |||
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"£2 an amazing bargain" Come across the Pennines  | |||
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"Do chips taste better cooked in vegetable oil or beef dripping ?" Beef dripping every time... | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Great idea. We should start flying the St George flag as well. This country has lost it's identity. " Having 5 flags for 4 countries will do that to you . | |||
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"A fish shop in Leeds has started selling battered chip butties We're well ahead of you here! A local chippy was on the news for exactly this last week!" Can't understand why we have a national crisis of being unhealthy | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Great idea. We should start flying the St George flag as well. This country has lost it's identity. " | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?"I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected. On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach. | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach. "What is our ‘identity ‘ ? Genuine question. I keep hearing that we have lost who we were etc, what were we and when did we lose it | |||
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"Are the best chips in the north east or the northwest or down south.." whitby north east by far the best | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach. "well said | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach.
What is our ‘identity ‘ ? Genuine question. I keep hearing that we have lost who we were etc, what were we and when did we lose it "I think its the most relevant question. And in the void that has been left by the removal of "being British" its been ignored as people have been brow beaten into feeling ashamed to celebrate being british...so example... No you can't have a nativity play at Xmas... You have to have a multi faith winter holiday celebration... And yet we then have a week of diwali... Now... I think it's wonderful to teach kids about different festivals and to respect them... But bending over all the time to "tolerate" is not the answer. I think we are in a great place now to redefine our nation... We have completed brexit for good or bad... We are probably over half way through covid, we are starting to see agitators and protestor... Which is a good thing that they are passionate and care... Let's redefine our collective values and culture and identity and start making it a great place to live again. | |||
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" Snipped.... I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected. Snipped " If the folks on the middle of the sandwich have views that are racist, intolerant or misogynistic - then they need to be educated. The issue of entitlement is what this about - the people in the middle feeling that “others” were threatening their identity simply by having rights. If I am wrong - perhaps you can give us some ideas about what the people in the middle have been forced to tolerate? | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach. "I see the opposite, people refusing to acknowledge that Britain has ever done anything wrong. You get pounced on and slated for discussing history on these forums. I also don't know what you mean by "identity" in this context, but I would like to understand your point better. And I'd like to know why you think we've lost or are losing it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach.
What is our ‘identity ‘ ? Genuine question. I keep hearing that we have lost who we were etc, what were we and when did we lose it
I think its the most relevant question. And in the void that has been left by the removal of "being British" its been ignored as people have been brow beaten into feeling ashamed to celebrate being british...so example... No you can't have a nativity play at Xmas... You have to have a multi faith winter holiday celebration... And yet we then have a week of diwali... Now... I think it's wonderful to teach kids about different festivals and to respect them... But bending over all the time to "tolerate" is not the answer.
I think we are in a great place now to redefine our nation... We have completed brexit for good or bad... We are probably over half way through covid, we are starting to see agitators and protestor... Which is a good thing that they are passionate and care... Let's redefine our collective values and culture and identity and start making it a great place to live again. "And that starts with a flag ? Things have changed, we are no longer the same as we were 20, 30 years ago . Our identity is defined by our leaders and our hero’s not by flags . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach.
What is our ‘identity ‘ ? Genuine question. I keep hearing that we have lost who we were etc, what were we and when did we lose it
I think its the most relevant question. And in the void that has been left by the removal of "being British" its been ignored as people have been brow beaten into feeling ashamed to celebrate being british...so example... No you can't have a nativity play at Xmas... You have to have a multi faith winter holiday celebration... And yet we then have a week of diwali... Now... I think it's wonderful to teach kids about different festivals and to respect them... But bending over all the time to "tolerate" is not the answer.
I think we are in a great place now to redefine our nation... We have completed brexit for good or bad... We are probably over half way through covid, we are starting to see agitators and protestor... Which is a good thing that they are passionate and care... Let's redefine our collective values and culture and identity and start making it a great place to live again. "Sorry my last comment took me a moment to type and you've already answered it here. I've never seen anyone not have to have a nativity play. But I understand the point you're making. I think it would be great to reclaim Britishness, the flag(s) and the sense of national identity from the far right. I suspect we have different ideas of what the new British identity should be. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach.
What is our ‘identity ‘ ? Genuine question. I keep hearing that we have lost who we were etc, what were we and when did we lose it
I think its the most relevant question. And in the void that has been left by the removal of "being British" its been ignored as people have been brow beaten into feeling ashamed to celebrate being british...so example... No you can't have a nativity play at Xmas... You have to have a multi faith winter holiday celebration... And yet we then have a week of diwali... Now... I think it's wonderful to teach kids about different festivals and to respect them... But bending over all the time to "tolerate" is not the answer.
I think we are in a great place now to redefine our nation... We have completed brexit for good or bad... We are probably over half way through covid, we are starting to see agitators and protestor... Which is a good thing that they are passionate and care... Let's redefine our collective values and culture and identity and start making it a great place to live again. "How many Nativity plays have actually been banned and how many Daily Mail (and similar) stories have there been about banning Nativity Plays? As an aside, I personally could not give two hoots if schools did present a multi-faith celebration as this recognised the total collapse of Christian church attendance in this country anyway. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach.
I see the opposite, people refusing to acknowledge that Britain has ever done anything wrong. You get pounced on and slated for discussing history on these forums.
I also don't know what you mean by "identity" in this context, but I would like to understand your point better. And I'd like to know why you think we've lost or are losing it."Oh really? That's interesting, I guess we all see what we want to see. We've done plenty wrong and we've done and do plenty right.... Some still struggle to acknowledge for example that so far (and there's plenty of time for it to go pear shaped) our vaccine strategy has been good. This is a good debate as it hasn't descended into puerile digs. As for identity and why we are losing it... Wow that could be a few volumes by people much better educated than I. But... I grew up trusting people with a hand shake, being honest, hard working, tolerant, supportive, community minded, respecting the police, teachers, doctors, nurses, parents, elders, respecting the law, with space to explore outdoors, respecting and helping and tolerating others,.. Now I admit that isn't an identity... But it's for me where things have changed and not for the better. I don't want this to be too personal so I'll stop there. But if you think that we score better in any of those areas now than we did 30 ago... And that makes us a better and happier country I'd be interested. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach.
I see the opposite, people refusing to acknowledge that Britain has ever done anything wrong. You get pounced on and slated for discussing history on these forums.
I also don't know what you mean by "identity" in this context, but I would like to understand your point better. And I'd like to know why you think we've lost or are losing it.
Oh really? That's interesting, I guess we all see what we want to see. We've done plenty wrong and we've done and do plenty right.... Some still struggle to acknowledge for example that so far (and there's plenty of time for it to go pear shaped) our vaccine strategy has been good. This is a good debate as it hasn't descended into puerile digs.
As for identity and why we are losing it... Wow that could be a few volumes by people much better educated than I. But... I grew up trusting people with a hand shake, being honest, hard working, tolerant, supportive, community minded, respecting the police, teachers, doctors, nurses, parents, elders, respecting the law, with space to explore outdoors, respecting and helping and tolerating others,.. Now I admit that isn't an identity... But it's for me where things have changed and not for the better. I don't want this to be too personal so I'll stop there. But if you think that we score better in any of those areas now than we did 30 ago... And that makes us a better and happier country I'd be interested. "Interesting. No I don't think we've especially improved in any of those areas. Interesting you mention "space to explore the outdoors". Access to green spaces and access to countryside is something I've campaigned for, for years. Personally I trust the government less than I did 20 years ago. And with things like the new laws against protesting and giving people up to 10 years in prison for damaging a statue. I trust and respect the law less and less. For example I would never go and ask a police officer for directions. But I've lived in countries where this is fairly common as the police and the people have a good relationship with the people. I would like our sense of national identity to be based on fairness, pride in education, tolerance, respect, and a political system that works for us, and not in the interests of big business. It would be nice to bring back a sense of community. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach.
I see the opposite, people refusing to acknowledge that Britain has ever done anything wrong. You get pounced on and slated for discussing history on these forums.
I also don't know what you mean by "identity" in this context, but I would like to understand your point better. And I'd like to know why you think we've lost or are losing it.
Oh really? That's interesting, I guess we all see what we want to see. We've done plenty wrong and we've done and do plenty right.... Some still struggle to acknowledge for example that so far (and there's plenty of time for it to go pear shaped) our vaccine strategy has been good. This is a good debate as it hasn't descended into puerile digs.
As for identity and why we are losing it... Wow that could be a few volumes by people much better educated than I. But... I grew up trusting people with a hand shake, being honest, hard working, tolerant, supportive, community minded, respecting the police, teachers, doctors, nurses, parents, elders, respecting the law, with space to explore outdoors, respecting and helping and tolerating others,.. Now I admit that isn't an identity... But it's for me where things have changed and not for the better. I don't want this to be too personal so I'll stop there. But if you think that we score better in any of those areas now than we did 30 ago... And that makes us a better and happier country I'd be interested. "Unfortunately you are right. But like I have said, the uk has changed, the world has changed, we can try and keep certain things from the past but moving forward we will have to change . You can’t expect children of today to have any affinity with a flag that was created 400 years ago, we need to create something new and different whilst respecting the past . | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach.
I see the opposite, people refusing to acknowledge that Britain has ever done anything wrong. You get pounced on and slated for discussing history on these forums.
I also don't know what you mean by "identity" in this context, but I would like to understand your point better. And I'd like to know why you think we've lost or are losing it.
Oh really? That's interesting, I guess we all see what we want to see. We've done plenty wrong and we've done and do plenty right.... Some still struggle to acknowledge for example that so far (and there's plenty of time for it to go pear shaped) our vaccine strategy has been good. This is a good debate as it hasn't descended into puerile digs.
As for identity and why we are losing it... Wow that could be a few volumes by people much better educated than I. But... I grew up trusting people with a hand shake, being honest, hard working, tolerant, supportive, community minded, respecting the police, teachers, doctors, nurses, parents, elders, respecting the law, with space to explore outdoors, respecting and helping and tolerating others,.. Now I admit that isn't an identity... But it's for me where things have changed and not for the better. I don't want this to be too personal so I'll stop there. But if you think that we score better in any of those areas now than we did 30 ago... And that makes us a better and happier country I'd be interested.
Interesting.
No I don't think we've especially improved in any of those areas. Interesting you mention "space to explore the outdoors". Access to green spaces and access to countryside is something I've campaigned for, for years.
Personally I trust the government less than I did 20 years ago. And with things like the new laws against protesting and giving people up to 10 years in prison for damaging a statue. I trust and respect the law less and less. For example I would never go and ask a police officer for directions. But I've lived in countries where this is fairly common as the police and the people have a good relationship with the people.
I would like our sense of national identity to be based on fairness, pride in education, tolerance, respect, and a political system that works for us, and not in the interests of big business. It would be nice to bring back a sense of community.
"Well we agree on all of that. I can remember hitching a lift home from the pub one night by thumbing down a police car. They stopped. I was pissed. We had a nice chat. And they dropped me home and said evening to my parents who of course were mortified at the shame of a police car being seen outside the house. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach.
I see the opposite, people refusing to acknowledge that Britain has ever done anything wrong. You get pounced on and slated for discussing history on these forums.
I also don't know what you mean by "identity" in this context, but I would like to understand your point better. And I'd like to know why you think we've lost or are losing it.
Oh really? That's interesting, I guess we all see what we want to see. We've done plenty wrong and we've done and do plenty right.... Some still struggle to acknowledge for example that so far (and there's plenty of time for it to go pear shaped) our vaccine strategy has been good. This is a good debate as it hasn't descended into puerile digs.
As for identity and why we are losing it... Wow that could be a few volumes by people much better educated than I. But... I grew up trusting people with a hand shake, being honest, hard working, tolerant, supportive, community minded, respecting the police, teachers, doctors, nurses, parents, elders, respecting the law, with space to explore outdoors, respecting and helping and tolerating others,.. Now I admit that isn't an identity... But it's for me where things have changed and not for the better. I don't want this to be too personal so I'll stop there. But if you think that we score better in any of those areas now than we did 30 ago... And that makes us a better and happier country I'd be interested.
Unfortunately you are right. But like I have said, the uk has changed, the world has changed, we can try and keep certain things from the past but moving forward we will have to change . You can’t expect children of today to have any affinity with a flag that was created 400 years ago, we need to create something new and different whilst respecting the past . "Agree with all of that too. And that's why we need to get the youngsters engaged in the process rather than bastardise them as they have been the last 12 months. You've captured what I wanted to say perfectly. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea?" Great Idea. 100% behind it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
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(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach.
I see the opposite, people refusing to acknowledge that Britain has ever done anything wrong. You get pounced on and slated for discussing history on these forums.
I also don't know what you mean by "identity" in this context, but I would like to understand your point better. And I'd like to know why you think we've lost or are losing it.
Oh really? That's interesting, I guess we all see what we want to see. We've done plenty wrong and we've done and do plenty right.... Some still struggle to acknowledge for example that so far (and there's plenty of time for it to go pear shaped) our vaccine strategy has been good. This is a good debate as it hasn't descended into puerile digs.
As for identity and why we are losing it... Wow that could be a few volumes by people much better educated than I. But... I grew up trusting people with a hand shake, being honest, hard working, tolerant, supportive, community minded, respecting the police, teachers, doctors, nurses, parents, elders, respecting the law, with space to explore outdoors, respecting and helping and tolerating others,.. Now I admit that isn't an identity... But it's for me where things have changed and not for the better. I don't want this to be too personal so I'll stop there. But if you think that we score better in any of those areas now than we did 30 ago... And that makes us a better and happier country I'd be interested.
Interesting.
No I don't think we've especially improved in any of those areas. Interesting you mention "space to explore the outdoors". Access to green spaces and access to countryside is something I've campaigned for, for years.
Personally I trust the government less than I did 20 years ago. And with things like the new laws against protesting and giving people up to 10 years in prison for damaging a statue. I trust and respect the law less and less. For example I would never go and ask a police officer for directions. But I've lived in countries where this is fairly common as the police and the people have a good relationship with the people.
I would like our sense of national identity to be based on fairness, pride in education, tolerance, respect, and a political system that works for us, and not in the interests of big business. It would be nice to bring back a sense of community.
Well we agree on all of that.
I can remember hitching a lift home from the pub one night by thumbing down a police car. They stopped. I was pissed. We had a nice chat. And they dropped me home and said evening to my parents who of course were mortified at the shame of a police car being seen outside the house. "Agreement on the political forum! Never thought this day would come. 
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea?" Great idea. No idea why its not already the case but good to hear its happening | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"Does this being ashamed of being english thing actually exist or Is it like the 'we cant put a flag up',cobblers?" So called patriots and nationalists will always try and ‘shame’ people if they aren’t showing the same type of ‘patriotism’ that they endorse | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"Does this being ashamed of being english thing actually exist or Is it like the 'we cant put a flag up',cobblers? So called patriots and nationalists will always try and ‘shame’ people if they aren’t showing the same type of ‘patriotism’ that they endorse " I'd just like to know how you stop someone from being patriotic | |||
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(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"Quite a few here demonstrate anti-patriotism every day. "So not being patriotic now means being anti patriotic? And even if that Is the case that's not stopping anyone being patriotic. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach.
I see the opposite, people refusing to acknowledge that Britain has ever done anything wrong. You get pounced on and slated for discussing history on these forums.
I also don't know what you mean by "identity" in this context, but I would like to understand your point better. And I'd like to know why you think we've lost or are losing it."mate we have discussed this many times for every positive thing Britain has done and been spoke about people on here have spoke about the negatives ten times more I’m not digging you out but I read yr posts all the time and can’t remember one good thing you’ve discussed mate | |||
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"Quite a few here demonstrate anti-patriotism every day. "I think that's the point being made. Although what's the definition of anti-patriotic? | |||
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"Country - UK Flag of country - Union Jack Next topic ..." Where’s the Welsh bit | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach.
I see the opposite, people refusing to acknowledge that Britain has ever done anything wrong. You get pounced on and slated for discussing history on these forums.
I also don't know what you mean by "identity" in this context, but I would like to understand your point better. And I'd like to know why you think we've lost or are losing it.mate we have discussed this many times for every positive thing Britain has done and been spoke about people on here have spoke about the negatives ten times more I’m not digging you out but I read yr posts all the time and can’t remember one good thing you’ve discussed mate "Can't remember anything you've mentioned on this as a point on the topic. Except for having a go at people who talk about history. I don't see history as negative or positive reflection on modern British people. Just stuff that happened. None of it was me, you or anyone here. You decided some of it is something people should be ashamed of or proud of, then project that onto me and others who discuss history. What are we supposed to do about that, aside from never discussing history. | |||
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"Does this being ashamed of being english thing actually exist or Is it like the 'we cant put a flag up',cobblers? So called patriots and nationalists will always try and ‘shame’ people if they aren’t showing the same type of ‘patriotism’ that they endorse " Do they really though? I'm patriotic but I don't try to shame others...for not feeling the same way. I don't feel nationalistic is the same thing at all. quality of being patriotic; devotion to and vigorous support for one's country. | |||
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"Country - UK Flag of country - Union Jack Next topic ... Where’s the Welsh bit " Westminster always forgets about Wales | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach.
I see the opposite, people refusing to acknowledge that Britain has ever done anything wrong. You get pounced on and slated for discussing history on these forums.
I also don't know what you mean by "identity" in this context, but I would like to understand your point better. And I'd like to know why you think we've lost or are losing it.mate we have discussed this many times for every positive thing Britain has done and been spoke about people on here have spoke about the negatives ten times more I’m not digging you out but I read yr posts all the time and can’t remember one good thing you’ve discussed mate
Can't remember anything you've mentioned on this as a point on the topic. Except for having a go at people who talk about history.
I don't see history as negative or positive reflection on modern British people. Just stuff that happened. None of it was me, you or anyone here.
You decided some of it is something people should be ashamed of or proud of, then project that onto me and others who discuss history. What are we supposed to do about that, aside from never discussing history."it’s not really talking about history tho if you only ever discussed one side of it your not the only one tho mate but it does tend to be the remainers on here who talk about the bad things Britain as done wonder why lol | |||
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"Well when a person can't say one good word about anything our country does is anti-patriotic. For one . . . could give you a raft of others, but really I'd just rather leave them to their own misery and ulcers. "Ah I see. So we're back calling people who recognise that the UK has problems anti-patriotic. Excellent. | |||
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"The Union of the United Kingdom is not a union of equals. Enforcing the flying of the union flag will inflame tensions of those who do not feel equal. We need to be really careful with this direction of travel. Wanting to do something is very different to being forced to do something and this will absolutely result in more Daily Mail and Daily Express headlines of “ Fury at.... “ ergo more division, less cohesion and a more and more inevitable collapse of the United Kingdom. I don't disagree with your statement of where we are... I disagree entirely in having to defer to the easily offended. A fragmented and divided nation will never heal its divisions by deferring to minorities at every turn. We must rediscover our national pride and common values and be proud of them.... We aren't perfect, nobody is, but I'd rather live in a society that was happy rather than endless carping about all the things we coulda shoulda woulda been doing if only... How do we get to a happier less divided society? Feels like it's getting more divided and worse every year. The UK dropped way down in the wild happiness index last year. As an example. The "easily offended" comments could be taken two ways. The post you refer to has the example headlines that start "fury as...". These kind of people are easily offended at people who might not want to fly the flag. As an example. Absolutely agree... We have to be a little cautious in that the last 12 months and probably the next 24 months have been spectacularly stressful and unpredictable. But I've noticed the league tables... Health, happiness, quality of life... Solving it is not going to be easy at all... But if we see that something is taking is in the wrong direction we should try something different. We are an overcrowded, poorly provided for island nation that has lost its identity (in my opinion because we've tried too hard to accommodate too many flavours without encouraging our own identity). It's not hopeless... Nothing is... But we need to find a way of working together more often, for longer and for better. I've said in other threads... We need a unity govt to lead us with its priorities being health, well being and happiness.... I have a dream..
Maybe our identity could be a multi flavoured society?
I agree with some of your sentiments. One of the issues is, we are all arguing amongst ourselves about what the problem is. Is it immigration, brexit, widening gap between the rich and poor, government is too right wing, government is too left wing. Etc
I agree that health happiness and wellbeing would be good priorities.
We have a very wide multi cultural society, but no shared identity.
So what's the answer? Is it forcing the flag on people and telling them to fuck off if they don't like it, as some have suggested. Or is it to strive for a better, fairer, more tolerant society. Or what is the answer?
I think part of the problem is we have been forced to tolerate too many things over the last 30 years... The feelings and views of the folks in the middle of the sandwich have been badly neglected.
On the face of it tolerance is an admirable trait. But not when it comes at the expense of watering down our identity. These threads are usually wall to wall with people being critical of things we have done 100s of years ago. We are not often allowed to celebrate our rare successes and good points and we have so many. It's a long long journey and it will need visionary leadership... I can't stand Marcus rashfors... But he is clearly a natural and gifted leader who has made good things happen in a good way, without shaming other people and without being critical of other people. That's a much better approach.
I see the opposite, people refusing to acknowledge that Britain has ever done anything wrong. You get pounced on and slated for discussing history on these forums.
I also don't know what you mean by "identity" in this context, but I would like to understand your point better. And I'd like to know why you think we've lost or are losing it.mate we have discussed this many times for every positive thing Britain has done and been spoke about people on here have spoke about the negatives ten times more I’m not digging you out but I read yr posts all the time and can’t remember one good thing you’ve discussed mate
Can't remember anything you've mentioned on this as a point on the topic. Except for having a go at people who talk about history.
I don't see history as negative or positive reflection on modern British people. Just stuff that happened. None of it was me, you or anyone here.
You decided some of it is something people should be ashamed of or proud of, then project that onto me and others who discuss history. What are we supposed to do about that, aside from never discussing history.it’s not really talking about history tho if you only ever discussed one side of it your not the only one tho mate but it does tend to be the remainers on here who talk about the bad things Britain as done wonder why lol"I very very rarely discuss history on here. And there aren't "sides" it's all history. Your personal interpretation of it doesn't make it into "sides". The odd times it's come up, I've mentioned that the British Empire isn't seen universally as a force for good in the world. In order to make this point, I have to list out a bunch of unrelated stuff to make sure someone isn't upset. Seems long winded and inefficient. | |||
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"Well when a person can't say one good word about anything our country does is anti-patriotic. For one . . . could give you a raft of others, but really I'd just rather leave them to their own misery and ulcers.
Ah I see. So we're back calling people who recognise that the UK has problems anti-patriotic.
Excellent."Not what I said at all. My post is a general statement highlighted by the words 'when a person' if your victim complex wants you to think I said that directly to you . . . I can't control that. | |||
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"Well when a person can't say one good word about anything our country does is anti-patriotic. For one . . . could give you a raft of others, but really I'd just rather leave them to their own misery and ulcers.
Ah I see. So we're back calling people who recognise that the UK has problems anti-patriotic.
Excellent.
Not what I said at all. My post is a general statement highlighted by the words 'when a person' if your victim complex wants you to think I said that directly to you . . . I can't control that."Well you should try discussing something that the UK doesn't do perfectly, question the government, or express dissent in some way and see how people react. Being labelled as anti-patriotic is the least of it though. This particular one I don't care about as I'm not patriotic anyway. | |||
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"Does this being ashamed of being english thing actually exist or Is it like the 'we cant put a flag up',cobblers? So called patriots and nationalists will always try and ‘shame’ people if they aren’t showing the same type of ‘patriotism’ that they endorse Do they really though? I'm patriotic but I don't try to shame others...for not feeling the same way. I don't feel nationalistic is the same thing at all. quality of being patriotic; devotion to and vigorous support for one's country. " It happens, as highlighted on here, if you are negative towards any aspect of Britain or the government you are called unpatriotic. There are certain people (albeit very few) who equate unquestioning loyalty to the government and a zero tolerance approach to any criticism of Britain as unpatriotic | |||
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"Well when a person can't say one good word about anything our country does is anti-patriotic. For one . . . could give you a raft of others, but really I'd just rather leave them to their own misery and ulcers.
Ah I see. So we're back calling people who recognise that the UK has problems anti-patriotic.
Excellent.
Not what I said at all. My post is a general statement highlighted by the words 'when a person' if your victim complex wants you to think I said that directly to you . . . I can't control that.
Well you should try discussing something that the UK doesn't do perfectly, question the government, or express dissent in some way and see how people react.
Being labelled as anti-patriotic is the least of it though.
This particular one I don't care about as I'm not patriotic anyway. "We had discussions US cultural differences compared to the UK.You defended those differences vigoursly. I would say you more anti government than anti patriotic. Here alot of us do not trust government. But are still patriotic on values. Same as you. Crazy | |||
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"Talk of flying the Union Flag 24/7 from government buildings.. Good idea or bad idea? Don't we fly thw Union Flag anyway? It's the flag of our country, so I don't see why there would be any controversy. " Only isdue is cost. A flag will wear out quicker and that means more orders for flags. Wouldn't be surprised if they're made in China | |||
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"Well when a person can't say one good word about anything our country does is anti-patriotic. For one . . . could give you a raft of others, but really I'd just rather leave them to their own misery and ulcers.
Ah I see. So we're back calling people who recognise that the UK has problems anti-patriotic.
Excellent.
Not what I said at all. My post is a general statement highlighted by the words 'when a person' if your victim complex wants you to think I said that directly to you . . . I can't control that.
Well you should try discussing something that the UK doesn't do perfectly, question the government, or express dissent in some way and see how people react.
Being labelled as anti-patriotic is the least of it though.
This particular one I don't care about as I'm not patriotic anyway.
We had discussions US cultural differences compared to the UK.You defended those differences vigoursly. I would say you more anti government than anti patriotic. Here alot of us do not trust government. But are still patriotic on values. Same as you. Crazy "Hah! Interesting. Also there is a difference between being unpatriotic and anti-patriotic. I'm not for or against anyone choosing to be patriotic. It only becomes a problem when it's used as an tool to control the population, like in the brexit referendum, or when people attack others for not being patriotic enough to meet their standards. | |||
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"Well when a person can't say one good word about anything our country does is anti-patriotic. For one . . . could give you a raft of others, but really I'd just rather leave them to their own misery and ulcers.
Ah I see. So we're back calling people who recognise that the UK has problems anti-patriotic.
Excellent."where the hell have I called you like I’m just posting what I think as I always do I say what I mean you know that about me I’m not calling you I just find it strange that most the people who are negative are remainers iv said many times that I acknowledge we have done really bad things in history but also very good things that’s both sides of the coin not just one side mate | |||
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"Well when a person can't say one good word about anything our country does is anti-patriotic. For one . . . could give you a raft of others, but really I'd just rather leave them to their own misery and ulcers.
Ah I see. So we're back calling people who recognise that the UK has problems anti-patriotic.
Excellent.where the hell have I called you like I’m just posting what I think as I always do I say what I mean you know that about me I’m not calling you I just find it strange that most the people who are negative are remainers iv said many times that I acknowledge we have done really bad things in history but also very good things that’s both sides of the coin not just one side mate "I was replying to someone else. I agree that you view remainers as negative people. I can only guess it's because you don't see leavers talking about all the problems caused by brexit. | |||
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"Well when a person can't say one good word about anything our country does is anti-patriotic. For one . . . could give you a raft of others, but really I'd just rather leave them to their own misery and ulcers.
Ah I see. So we're back calling people who recognise that the UK has problems anti-patriotic.
Excellent.
Not what I said at all. My post is a general statement highlighted by the words 'when a person' if your victim complex wants you to think I said that directly to you . . . I can't control that.
Well you should try discussing something that the UK doesn't do perfectly, question the government, or express dissent in some way and see how people react.
Being labelled as anti-patriotic is the least of it though.
This particular one I don't care about as I'm not patriotic anyway.
We had discussions US cultural differences compared to the UK.You defended those differences vigoursly. I would say you more anti government than anti patriotic. Here alot of us do not trust government. But are still patriotic on values. Same as you. Crazy
Hah! Interesting.
Also there is a difference between being unpatriotic and anti-patriotic.
I'm not for or against anyone choosing to be patriotic. It only becomes a problem when it's used as an tool to control the population, like in the brexit referendum, or when people attack others for not being patriotic enough to meet their standards. "Is it really being used as a tool or people taking the word "Patriotism" out of context. Because I would like to know why alot that complain about patriotism Actually are when I present different views and I get UK better at this and that ect... Not I am or my government is. Always UK. You are technically defending the values of your country compared to mine. Patriotic approach to a discussion. Just a thought. | |||
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"Well when a person can't say one good word about anything our country does is anti-patriotic. For one . . . could give you a raft of others, but really I'd just rather leave them to their own misery and ulcers.
Ah I see. So we're back calling people who recognise that the UK has problems anti-patriotic.
Excellent.where the hell have I called you like I’m just posting what I think as I always do I say what I mean you know that about me I’m not calling you I just find it strange that most the people who are negative are remainers iv said many times that I acknowledge we have done really bad things in history but also very good things that’s both sides of the coin not just one side mate
I was replying to someone else.
I agree that you view remainers as negative people. I can only guess it's because you don't see leavers talking about all the problems caused by brexit."no not all remainders mate just some on here I don’t tar everyone with the same brush I leave that to others on here | |||
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"Well when a person can't say one good word about anything our country does is anti-patriotic. For one . . . could give you a raft of others, but really I'd just rather leave them to their own misery and ulcers.
Ah I see. So we're back calling people who recognise that the UK has problems anti-patriotic.
Excellent.
Not what I said at all. My post is a general statement highlighted by the words 'when a person' if your victim complex wants you to think I said that directly to you . . . I can't control that.
Well you should try discussing something that the UK doesn't do perfectly, question the government, or express dissent in some way and see how people react.
Being labelled as anti-patriotic is the least of it though.
This particular one I don't care about as I'm not patriotic anyway.
We had discussions US cultural differences compared to the UK.You defended those differences vigoursly. I would say you more anti government than anti patriotic. Here alot of us do not trust government. But are still patriotic on values. Same as you. Crazy
Hah! Interesting.
Also there is a difference between being unpatriotic and anti-patriotic.
I'm not for or against anyone choosing to be patriotic. It only becomes a problem when it's used as an tool to control the population, like in the brexit referendum, or when people attack others for not being patriotic enough to meet their standards.
Is it really being used as a tool or people taking the word "Patriotism" out of context. Because I would like to know why alot that complain about patriotism Actually are when I present different views and I get UK better at this and that ect... Not I am or my government is. Always UK. You are technically defending the values of your country compared to mine. Patriotic approach to a discussion. Just a thought."I agree with you, that's an ugly side of patriotism. The "my country is better than yours" rhetoric is stupid. And sure, patriotism was leaned on by the leave campaigns. | |||
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