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"And you left out the remainstrmists or is that because you are one don’t they count lol" I said that the majority became entrenched into two opposing camps. The reason that I am struggling to find an example of Remainers being affected by identity politics is that they are not aligning themselves ideologically to a political party because of their identity beliefs. | |||
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"Personally, I think that it is. Prior to 2010/2011, disagreement was a healthy part on the national discourse. We learned and broadened our outlook by listening to opposing views and we had normal, healthy debate. The upcoming Brexit referendum seemingly poisoned the national narrative as the silent majority all but disappeared and the actual majority became entrenched into one of two camps. Now we have a political landscape turned on its head with Scottish Nationalists forgiving all for the sake on an independent Scotland. Brextremists aligned body and soul with Boris Johnson and the Conservatives despite the very essence of conservatism being to alienate ordinary working people. Why are people now so wedded to a political identity? " Not true though is it? the brextremists as you call them were more likely to support an indi ref for Scotland but can see the similarities with the brexit remainers, the snp didnt get the result they wanted so want to overturn a once in a lifetime result (their words not mine). | |||
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"Personally, I think that it is. Prior to 2010/2011, disagreement was a healthy part on the national discourse. We learned and broadened our outlook by listening to opposing views and we had normal, healthy debate. The upcoming Brexit referendum seemingly poisoned the national narrative as the silent majority all but disappeared and the actual majority became entrenched into one of two camps. Now we have a political landscape turned on its head with Scottish Nationalists forgiving all for the sake on an independent Scotland. Brextremists aligned body and soul with Boris Johnson and the Conservatives despite the very essence of conservatism being to alienate ordinary working people. Why are people now so wedded to a political identity? Not true though is it? the brextremists as you call them were more likely to support an indi ref for Scotland but can see the similarities with the brexit remainers, the snp didnt get the result they wanted so want to overturn a once in a lifetime result (their words not mine)." My experience is the opposite. I've noticed more people who think Brexit is a good idea. Think Scottish independence is a bad idea. | |||
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"Personally, I think that it is. Prior to 2010/2011, disagreement was a healthy part on the national discourse. We learned and broadened our outlook by listening to opposing views and we had normal, healthy debate. The upcoming Brexit referendum seemingly poisoned the national narrative as the silent majority all but disappeared and the actual majority became entrenched into one of two camps. Now we have a political landscape turned on its head with Scottish Nationalists forgiving all for the sake on an independent Scotland. Brextremists aligned body and soul with Boris Johnson and the Conservatives despite the very essence of conservatism being to alienate ordinary working people. Why are people now so wedded to a political identity? Not true though is it? the brextremists as you call them were more likely to support an indi ref for Scotland but can see the similarities with the brexit remainers, the snp didnt get the result they wanted so want to overturn a once in a lifetime result (their words not mine). My experience is the opposite. I've noticed more people who think Brexit is a good idea. Think Scottish independence is a bad idea. "  | |||
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"Personally, I think that it is. Prior to 2010/2011, disagreement was a healthy part on the national discourse. We learned and broadened our outlook by listening to opposing views and we had normal, healthy debate. The upcoming Brexit referendum seemingly poisoned the national narrative as the silent majority all but disappeared and the actual majority became entrenched into one of two camps. Now we have a political landscape turned on its head with Scottish Nationalists forgiving all for the sake on an independent Scotland. Brextremists aligned body and soul with Boris Johnson and the Conservatives despite the very essence of conservatism being to alienate ordinary working people. Why are people now so wedded to a political identity? Not true though is it? the brextremists as you call them were more likely to support an indi ref for Scotland but can see the similarities with the brexit remainers, the snp didnt get the result they wanted so want to overturn a once in a lifetime result (their words not mine). My experience is the opposite. I've noticed more people who think Brexit is a good idea. Think Scottish independence is a bad idea. " They may think its a bad idea thats not the same thing though . | |||
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"Personally, I think that it is. Prior to 2010/2011, disagreement was a healthy part on the national discourse. We learned and broadened our outlook by listening to opposing views and we had normal, healthy debate. The upcoming Brexit referendum seemingly poisoned the national narrative as the silent majority all but disappeared and the actual majority became entrenched into one of two camps. Now we have a political landscape turned on its head with Scottish Nationalists forgiving all for the sake on an independent Scotland. Brextremists aligned body and soul with Boris Johnson and the Conservatives despite the very essence of conservatism being to alienate ordinary working people. Why are people now so wedded to a political identity? Not true though is it? the brextremists as you call them were more likely to support an indi ref for Scotland but can see the similarities with the brexit remainers, the snp didnt get the result they wanted so want to overturn a once in a lifetime result (their words not mine). My experience is the opposite. I've noticed more people who think Brexit is a good idea. Think Scottish independence is a bad idea. They may think its a bad idea thats not the same thing though ." Sorry I misunderstood. You're saying that people who think Brexit is a good idea. Are more likely think Scotland should have another referendum? If so, I don't necessarily think that disproves that the OPs assertion that identity politics is on the rise. | |||
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"Personally, I think that it is. Prior to 2010/2011, disagreement was a healthy part on the national discourse. We learned and broadened our outlook by listening to opposing views and we had normal, healthy debate. The upcoming Brexit referendum seemingly poisoned the national narrative as the silent majority all but disappeared and the actual majority became entrenched into one of two camps. Now we have a political landscape turned on its head with Scottish Nationalists forgiving all for the sake on an independent Scotland. Brextremists aligned body and soul with Boris Johnson and the Conservatives despite the very essence of conservatism being to alienate ordinary working people. Why are people now so wedded to a political identity? Not true though is it? the brextremists as you call them were more likely to support an indi ref for Scotland but can see the similarities with the brexit remainers, the snp didnt get the result they wanted so want to overturn a once in a lifetime result (their words not mine)." Actually, Cameron uttered the words first. In any case, it’s a stupid rebuttal. | |||
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"Personally, I think that it is. Prior to 2010/2011, disagreement was a healthy part on the national discourse. We learned and broadened our outlook by listening to opposing views and we had normal, healthy debate. The upcoming Brexit referendum seemingly poisoned the national narrative as the silent majority all but disappeared and the actual majority became entrenched into one of two camps. Now we have a political landscape turned on its head with Scottish Nationalists forgiving all for the sake on an independent Scotland. Brextremists aligned body and soul with Boris Johnson and the Conservatives despite the very essence of conservatism being to alienate ordinary working people. Why are people now so wedded to a political identity? Not true though is it? the brextremists as you call them were more likely to support an indi ref for Scotland but can see the similarities with the brexit remainers, the snp didnt get the result they wanted so want to overturn a once in a lifetime result (their words not mine). My experience is the opposite. I've noticed more people who think Brexit is a good idea. Think Scottish independence is a bad idea. They may think its a bad idea thats not the same thing though . Sorry I misunderstood. You're saying that people who think Brexit is a good idea. Are more likely think Scotland should have another referendum? If so, I don't necessarily think that disproves that the OPs assertion that identity politics is on the rise." No im saying the people who wanted brexit to go ahead had no problem with an indi ref what they object to is another because it didnt go they way the snp wanted, just like remainers trying to overturn the brexit referendum. | |||
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"Personally, I think that it is. Prior to 2010/2011, disagreement was a healthy part on the national discourse. We learned and broadened our outlook by listening to opposing views and we had normal, healthy debate. The upcoming Brexit referendum seemingly poisoned the national narrative as the silent majority all but disappeared and the actual majority became entrenched into one of two camps. Now we have a political landscape turned on its head with Scottish Nationalists forgiving all for the sake on an independent Scotland. Brextremists aligned body and soul with Boris Johnson and the Conservatives despite the very essence of conservatism being to alienate ordinary working people. Why are people now so wedded to a political identity? Not true though is it? the brextremists as you call them were more likely to support an indi ref for Scotland but can see the similarities with the brexit remainers, the snp didnt get the result they wanted so want to overturn a once in a lifetime result (their words not mine). My experience is the opposite. I've noticed more people who think Brexit is a good idea. Think Scottish independence is a bad idea. They may think its a bad idea thats not the same thing though . Sorry I misunderstood. You're saying that people who think Brexit is a good idea. Are more likely think Scotland should have another referendum? If so, I don't necessarily think that disproves that the OPs assertion that identity politics is on the rise.No im saying the people who wanted brexit to go ahead had no problem with an indi ref what they object to is another because it didnt go they way the snp wanted, just like remainers trying to overturn the brexit referendum." Oh I see. Carry on. | |||
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"Personally, I think that it is. Prior to 2010/2011, disagreement was a healthy part on the national discourse. We learned and broadened our outlook by listening to opposing views and we had normal, healthy debate. The upcoming Brexit referendum seemingly poisoned the national narrative as the silent majority all but disappeared and the actual majority became entrenched into one of two camps. Now we have a political landscape turned on its head with Scottish Nationalists forgiving all for the sake on an independent Scotland. Brextremists aligned body and soul with Boris Johnson and the Conservatives despite the very essence of conservatism being to alienate ordinary working people. Why are people now so wedded to a political identity? Not true though is it? the brextremists as you call them were more likely to support an indi ref for Scotland but can see the similarities with the brexit remainers, the snp didnt get the result they wanted so want to overturn a once in a lifetime result (their words not mine). Actually, Cameron uttered the words first. In any case, it’s a stupid rebuttal. " Actually quoting from the Scottish Government white paper, “ The Edinburgh Agreement states that a referendum must be held by the end of 2014. There is no arrangement in place for another referendum on independence. It is the view of the current Scottish Government that a referendum is a once-in-a-generation opportunity. This means that only a majority vote for Yes in 2014 would give certainty that Scotland will be independent”. | |||
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"Personally, I think that it is. Prior to 2010/2011, disagreement was a healthy part on the national discourse. We learned and broadened our outlook by listening to opposing views and we had normal, healthy debate. The upcoming Brexit referendum seemingly poisoned the national narrative as the silent majority all but disappeared and the actual majority became entrenched into one of two camps. Now we have a political landscape turned on its head with Scottish Nationalists forgiving all for the sake on an independent Scotland. Brextremists aligned body and soul with Boris Johnson and the Conservatives despite the very essence of conservatism being to alienate ordinary working people. Why are people now so wedded to a political identity? " Do not think things have changed but the internet blows things out of proportion. | |||
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"first or second, the point of the statement was accepted by all concerned. " Democracy is a wonderful thing. Until you don't get the result that you expected to get! | |||
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"I think the silent majority voted for Brexit. Probably the first time they were really heard." | |||
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" My experience is the opposite. I've noticed more people who think Brexit is a good idea. Think Scottish independence is a bad idea. " And that just proves the point that there isn't a general entrenchment between two camps. What we are short of is 'other' parties and currently even a Labour Opposition. People are duplicit. They always have been, and they always will be, they will vote for what they want in any given moment they will vote because they don't like a person, and simply ignore the policy, they will vote because their friend said vote this or that way. They will vote under the pressure of the moment and depending on what the pressure is they can vote either way. People are also bright enough to divide one sets of politics from the other set. SNP and Brexit issues aren't even close to be the same thing. Some people know that and some people don't. But the most salient point of all is what/who do we really have to vote for? Labour need to reform themselves the Liberal Democrats I with people they have had in the past like Jo Swinson with her messiah complex was astonishing. On the issue of Brexit there was most definitely two entrenched camps - but in each of those camps local and national politics changes in people heads in both directions all the time - calling it that one is going to believe one thing simply because they believe another will lead you way up the garden path and get you no place to understanding it anytime soon. | |||
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" My experience is the opposite. I've noticed more people who think Brexit is a good idea. Think Scottish independence is a bad idea. And that just proves the point that there isn't a general entrenchment between two camps. What we are short of is 'other' parties and currently even a Labour Opposition. People are duplicit. They always have been, and they always will be, they will vote for what they want in any given moment they will vote because they don't like a person, and simply ignore the policy, they will vote because their friend said vote this or that way. They will vote under the pressure of the moment and depending on what the pressure is they can vote either way. People are also bright enough to divide one sets of politics from the other set. SNP and Brexit issues aren't even close to be the same thing. Some people know that and some people don't. But the most salient point of all is what/who do we really have to vote for? Labour need to reform themselves the Liberal Democrats I with people they have had in the past like Jo Swinson with her messiah complex was astonishing. On the issue of Brexit there was most definitely two entrenched camps - but in each of those camps local and national politics changes in people heads in both directions all the time - calling it that one is going to believe one thing simply because they believe another will lead you way up the garden path and get you no place to understanding it anytime soon. " Whatever the topic, most of the people who think brexit is a good idea are on the same side. For example. The threads about the Tories paying billions to their friends and neighbours for dodgy PPE. Brexiteers defend the government. Any topic that discusses history. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. And only promote narratives that make the UK look positive. Any topic that involves some form of patriotism. Brexiteers attack anyone who suggests that the UK may not be universally perfect in every situation. Also, discussions of the media, brexiteers claim that the BBC and the media is overwhelmingly left wing. Despite all the evidence to the contrary. I'm sure there is more. But these pop into my head. | |||
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" My experience is the opposite. I've noticed more people who think Brexit is a good idea. Think Scottish independence is a bad idea. And that just proves the point that there isn't a general entrenchment between two camps. What we are short of is 'other' parties and currently even a Labour Opposition. People are duplicit. They always have been, and they always will be, they will vote for what they want in any given moment they will vote because they don't like a person, and simply ignore the policy, they will vote because their friend said vote this or that way. They will vote under the pressure of the moment and depending on what the pressure is they can vote either way. People are also bright enough to divide one sets of politics from the other set. SNP and Brexit issues aren't even close to be the same thing. Some people know that and some people don't. But the most salient point of all is what/who do we really have to vote for? Labour need to reform themselves the Liberal Democrats I with people they have had in the past like Jo Swinson with her messiah complex was astonishing. On the issue of Brexit there was most definitely two entrenched camps - but in each of those camps local and national politics changes in people heads in both directions all the time - calling it that one is going to believe one thing simply because they believe another will lead you way up the garden path and get you no place to understanding it anytime soon. Whatever the topic, most of the people who think brexit is a good idea are on the same side. For example. The threads about the Tories paying billions to their friends and neighbours for dodgy PPE. Brexiteers defend the government. Any topic that discusses history. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. And only promote narratives that make the UK look positive. Any topic that involves some form of patriotism. Brexiteers attack anyone who suggests that the UK may not be universally perfect in every situation. Also, discussions of the media, brexiteers claim that the BBC and the media is overwhelmingly left wing. Despite all the evidence to the contrary. I'm sure there is more. But these pop into my head." People here are already saying they don't match those characteristics, so you can't put 'most do' as clearly they don't. I don't match any of those characteristics. Brexiteers defend Brexit in my view and I have seen many here jump on Tory government for many other reasons, and clearly they have Voted for Brexit. "Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. " Now that really is rich, there are many here that only try to argue from a balanced viewpoint only to be argued against with childishly snide remarks varying from the outright asinine to plain old nasty and no political argument contained. I have had misogynist comments made to me quite a few times now, just because I cared to discuss here. If a few disagree they just hurl and insult instead - from both sides. So. No you absolutely cannot characterise by whether or not you voted Brexit. | |||
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" My experience is the opposite. I've noticed more people who think Brexit is a good idea. Think Scottish independence is a bad idea. And that just proves the point that there isn't a general entrenchment between two camps. What we are short of is 'other' parties and currently even a Labour Opposition. People are duplicit. They always have been, and they always will be, they will vote for what they want in any given moment they will vote because they don't like a person, and simply ignore the policy, they will vote because their friend said vote this or that way. They will vote under the pressure of the moment and depending on what the pressure is they can vote either way. People are also bright enough to divide one sets of politics from the other set. SNP and Brexit issues aren't even close to be the same thing. Some people know that and some people don't. But the most salient point of all is what/who do we really have to vote for? Labour need to reform themselves the Liberal Democrats I with people they have had in the past like Jo Swinson with her messiah complex was astonishing. On the issue of Brexit there was most definitely two entrenched camps - but in each of those camps local and national politics changes in people heads in both directions all the time - calling it that one is going to believe one thing simply because they believe another will lead you way up the garden path and get you no place to understanding it anytime soon. Whatever the topic, most of the people who think brexit is a good idea are on the same side. For example. The threads about the Tories paying billions to their friends and neighbours for dodgy PPE. Brexiteers defend the government. Any topic that discusses history. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. And only promote narratives that make the UK look positive. Any topic that involves some form of patriotism. Brexiteers attack anyone who suggests that the UK may not be universally perfect in every situation. Also, discussions of the media, brexiteers claim that the BBC and the media is overwhelmingly left wing. Despite all the evidence to the contrary. I'm sure there is more. But these pop into my head. People here are already saying they don't match those characteristics, so you can't put 'most do' as clearly they don't. I don't match any of those characteristics. Brexiteers defend Brexit in my view and I have seen many here jump on Tory government for many other reasons, and clearly they have Voted for Brexit. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. Now that really is rich, there are many here that only try to argue from a balanced viewpoint only to be argued against with childishly snide remarks varying from the outright asinine to plain old nasty and no political argument contained. I have had misogynist comments made to me quite a few times now, just because I cared to discuss here. If a few disagree they just hurl and insult instead - from both sides. So. No you absolutely cannot characterise by whether or not you voted Brexit. " "Balanced discussion" was specifically about history. I could give you examples, but not allowed to name names on the forums. But all the threads with history being discussed are there. You get jumped on for suggesting that the UK ever did anything less than exemplary. And yeah, sure, it's not everyone is always on the same team. But there are definite trends. The major exception to this is covid denial. Especially Garage's new anti-science party. This seems to have split brexiteers down the middle. And you could argue the reverse of these points. Remainers are mostly on the opposite side of the above arguments I mentioned. Misogynistic comments are abhorrent. And have no place in conversation. | |||
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" People here are already saying they don't match those characteristics, so you can't put 'most do' as clearly they don't. I don't match any of those characteristics. Brexiteers defend Brexit in my view and I have seen many here jump on Tory government for many other reasons, and clearly they have Voted for Brexit. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. Now that really is rich, there are many here that only try to argue from a balanced viewpoint only to be argued against with childishly snide remarks varying from the outright asinine to plain old nasty and no political argument contained. I have had misogynist comments made to me quite a few times now, just because I cared to discuss here. If a few disagree they just hurl and insult instead - from both sides. So. No you absolutely cannot characterise by whether or not you voted Brexit. " Agree | |||
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" People here are already saying they don't match those characteristics, so you can't put 'most do' as clearly they don't. I don't match any of those characteristics. Brexiteers defend Brexit in my view and I have seen many here jump on Tory government for many other reasons, and clearly they have Voted for Brexit. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. Now that really is rich, there are many here that only try to argue from a balanced viewpoint only to be argued against with childishly snide remarks varying from the outright asinine to plain old nasty and no political argument contained. I have had misogynist comments made to me quite a few times now, just because I cared to discuss here. If a few disagree they just hurl and insult instead - from both sides. So. No you absolutely cannot characterise by whether or not you voted Brexit. Agree "Brexiteers on the same side. 
This was just a joke before people start hammering me. | |||
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" People here are already saying they don't match those characteristics, so you can't put 'most do' as clearly they don't. I don't match any of those characteristics. Brexiteers defend Brexit in my view and I have seen many here jump on Tory government for many other reasons, and clearly they have Voted for Brexit. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. Now that really is rich, there are many here that only try to argue from a balanced viewpoint only to be argued against with childishly snide remarks varying from the outright asinine to plain old nasty and no political argument contained. I have had misogynist comments made to me quite a few times now, just because I cared to discuss here. If a few disagree they just hurl and insult instead - from both sides. So. No you absolutely cannot characterise by whether or not you voted Brexit. Agree
Brexiteers on the same side.
This was just a joke before people start hammering me."Actually I think the poster is agreeing that Brexiteers aren't always on the same side. And who exactly is 'hammering' you? | |||
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" My experience is the opposite. I've noticed more people who think Brexit is a good idea. Think Scottish independence is a bad idea. And that just proves the point that there isn't a general entrenchment between two camps. What we are short of is 'other' parties and currently even a Labour Opposition. People are duplicit. They always have been, and they always will be, they will vote for what they want in any given moment they will vote because they don't like a person, and simply ignore the policy, they will vote because their friend said vote this or that way. They will vote under the pressure of the moment and depending on what the pressure is they can vote either way. People are also bright enough to divide one sets of politics from the other set. SNP and Brexit issues aren't even close to be the same thing. Some people know that and some people don't. But the most salient point of all is what/who do we really have to vote for? Labour need to reform themselves the Liberal Democrats I with people they have had in the past like Jo Swinson with her messiah complex was astonishing. On the issue of Brexit there was most definitely two entrenched camps - but in each of those camps local and national politics changes in people heads in both directions all the time - calling it that one is going to believe one thing simply because they believe another will lead you way up the garden path and get you no place to understanding it anytime soon. Whatever the topic, most of the people who think brexit is a good idea are on the same side. For example. The threads about the Tories paying billions to their friends and neighbours for dodgy PPE. Brexiteers defend the government. Any topic that discusses history. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. And only promote narratives that make the UK look positive. Any topic that involves some form of patriotism. Brexiteers attack anyone who suggests that the UK may not be universally perfect in every situation. Also, discussions of the media, brexiteers claim that the BBC and the media is overwhelmingly left wing. Despite all the evidence to the contrary. I'm sure there is more. But these pop into my head. People here are already saying they don't match those characteristics, so you can't put 'most do' as clearly they don't. I don't match any of those characteristics. Brexiteers defend Brexit in my view and I have seen many here jump on Tory government for many other reasons, and clearly they have Voted for Brexit. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. Now that really is rich, there are many here that only try to argue from a balanced viewpoint only to be argued against with childishly snide remarks varying from the outright asinine to plain old nasty and no political argument contained. I have had misogynist comments made to me quite a few times now, just because I cared to discuss here. If a few disagree they just hurl and insult instead - from both sides. So. No you absolutely cannot characterise by whether or not you voted Brexit. "Balanced discussion" was specifically about history. I could give you examples, but not allowed to name names on the forums. But all the threads with history being discussed are there. You get jumped on for suggesting that the UK ever did anything less than exemplary. And yeah, sure, it's not everyone is always on the same team. But there are definite trends. The major exception to this is covid denial. Especially Garage's new anti-science party. This seems to have split brexiteers down the middle. And you could argue the reverse of these points. Remainers are mostly on the opposite side of the above arguments I mentioned. Misogynistic comments are abhorrent. And have no place in conversation. " the thing is when you talk about British history you never say anything about the good you only ever talk about the bad how is that balanced lol | |||
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" People here are already saying they don't match those characteristics, so you can't put 'most do' as clearly they don't. I don't match any of those characteristics. Brexiteers defend Brexit in my view and I have seen many here jump on Tory government for many other reasons, and clearly they have Voted for Brexit. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. Now that really is rich, there are many here that only try to argue from a balanced viewpoint only to be argued against with childishly snide remarks varying from the outright asinine to plain old nasty and no political argument contained. I have had misogynist comments made to me quite a few times now, just because I cared to discuss here. If a few disagree they just hurl and insult instead - from both sides. So. No you absolutely cannot characterise by whether or not you voted Brexit. Agree
Brexiteers on the same side.
This was just a joke before people start hammering me.
Actually I think the poster is agreeing that Brexiteers aren't always on the same side.
And who exactly is 'hammering' you? "Yes I got that. Hence it being funny that brexiteers agreeing that brexiteers don't always agree. It was just a joke. Jeez And you get hammered for having an opinion here. | |||
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" My experience is the opposite. I've noticed more people who think Brexit is a good idea. Think Scottish independence is a bad idea. And that just proves the point that there isn't a general entrenchment between two camps. What we are short of is 'other' parties and currently even a Labour Opposition. People are duplicit. They always have been, and they always will be, they will vote for what they want in any given moment they will vote because they don't like a person, and simply ignore the policy, they will vote because their friend said vote this or that way. They will vote under the pressure of the moment and depending on what the pressure is they can vote either way. People are also bright enough to divide one sets of politics from the other set. SNP and Brexit issues aren't even close to be the same thing. Some people know that and some people don't. But the most salient point of all is what/who do we really have to vote for? Labour need to reform themselves the Liberal Democrats I with people they have had in the past like Jo Swinson with her messiah complex was astonishing. On the issue of Brexit there was most definitely two entrenched camps - but in each of those camps local and national politics changes in people heads in both directions all the time - calling it that one is going to believe one thing simply because they believe another will lead you way up the garden path and get you no place to understanding it anytime soon. Whatever the topic, most of the people who think brexit is a good idea are on the same side. For example. The threads about the Tories paying billions to their friends and neighbours for dodgy PPE. Brexiteers defend the government. Any topic that discusses history. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. And only promote narratives that make the UK look positive. Any topic that involves some form of patriotism. Brexiteers attack anyone who suggests that the UK may not be universally perfect in every situation. Also, discussions of the media, brexiteers claim that the BBC and the media is overwhelmingly left wing. Despite all the evidence to the contrary. I'm sure there is more. But these pop into my head. People here are already saying they don't match those characteristics, so you can't put 'most do' as clearly they don't. I don't match any of those characteristics. Brexiteers defend Brexit in my view and I have seen many here jump on Tory government for many other reasons, and clearly they have Voted for Brexit. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. Now that really is rich, there are many here that only try to argue from a balanced viewpoint only to be argued against with childishly snide remarks varying from the outright asinine to plain old nasty and no political argument contained. I have had misogynist comments made to me quite a few times now, just because I cared to discuss here. If a few disagree they just hurl and insult instead - from both sides. So. No you absolutely cannot characterise by whether or not you voted Brexit. "Balanced discussion" was specifically about history. I could give you examples, but not allowed to name names on the forums. But all the threads with history being discussed are there. You get jumped on for suggesting that the UK ever did anything less than exemplary. And yeah, sure, it's not everyone is always on the same team. But there are definite trends. The major exception to this is covid denial. Especially Garage's new anti-science party. This seems to have split brexiteers down the middle. And you could argue the reverse of these points. Remainers are mostly on the opposite side of the above arguments I mentioned. Misogynistic comments are abhorrent. And have no place in conversation. the thing is when you talk about British history you never say anything about the good you only ever talk about the bad how is that balanced lol" That's simply not true. But if you only see the negative. What can i do. | |||
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"Agree. It beggars belief that the Conservative Party’s financial dealings, mismanagement, political idiocy, ignorance and sheer stupidity not to mention Johnson’s misleading of Parliament several times in his tenure and sheer utter hypocrisy and lies, has not resulted in them being hamstrung and politically castrated. The leader of the Labour Party as as useful as a useless thing and as weak as dishwater. Where is an opposition and where are the moral values of the U.K.? All I can see is general ignorance and stupidity amongst the majority of its population. Certainly nothing ‘Great’ to be seen." So we are back to the good old anyone who disagrees with your view is ignorant and stupid, it could of course that it's you that is wrong have you ever considered its YOU that is out of step and wrong ? | |||
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" And you get hammered for having an opinion here." Or maybe it's just the 'discussion' that you want? | |||
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"Personally, I think that it is. Prior to 2010/2011, disagreement was a healthy part on the national discourse. We learned and broadened our outlook by listening to opposing views and we had normal, healthy debate. The upcoming Brexit referendum seemingly poisoned the national narrative as the silent majority all but disappeared and the actual majority became entrenched into one of two camps. Now we have a political landscape turned on its head with Scottish Nationalists forgiving all for the sake on an independent Scotland. Brextremists aligned body and soul with Boris Johnson and the Conservatives despite the very essence of conservatism being to alienate ordinary working people. Why are people now so wedded to a political identity? " Would be that be the healthy discourse that led to people celebrating the death of mrs T ? There was no prospect of a referendum in 2010, it was prior to the 2015 election that it became a realistic idea, and it was because millions were identifying with ukip not the tories also remainers had the chance to vote Libdem at the last election so virtually everything in your post is wrong. | |||
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" And you get hammered for having an opinion here. Or maybe it's just the 'discussion' that you want?" Sometimes. But as you pointed out, people often make it personal and attack the person, instead of the point they're making. | |||
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" My experience is the opposite. I've noticed more people who think Brexit is a good idea. Think Scottish independence is a bad idea. And that just proves the point that there isn't a general entrenchment between two camps. What we are short of is 'other' parties and currently even a Labour Opposition. People are duplicit. They always have been, and they always will be, they will vote for what they want in any given moment they will vote because they don't like a person, and simply ignore the policy, they will vote because their friend said vote this or that way. They will vote under the pressure of the moment and depending on what the pressure is they can vote either way. People are also bright enough to divide one sets of politics from the other set. SNP and Brexit issues aren't even close to be the same thing. Some people know that and some people don't. But the most salient point of all is what/who do we really have to vote for? Labour need to reform themselves the Liberal Democrats I with people they have had in the past like Jo Swinson with her messiah complex was astonishing. On the issue of Brexit there was most definitely two entrenched camps - but in each of those camps local and national politics changes in people heads in both directions all the time - calling it that one is going to believe one thing simply because they believe another will lead you way up the garden path and get you no place to understanding it anytime soon. Whatever the topic, most of the people who think brexit is a good idea are on the same side. For example. The threads about the Tories paying billions to their friends and neighbours for dodgy PPE. Brexiteers defend the government. Any topic that discusses history. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. And only promote narratives that make the UK look positive. Any topic that involves some form of patriotism. Brexiteers attack anyone who suggests that the UK may not be universally perfect in every situation. Also, discussions of the media, brexiteers claim that the BBC and the media is overwhelmingly left wing. Despite all the evidence to the contrary. I'm sure there is more. But these pop into my head. People here are already saying they don't match those characteristics, so you can't put 'most do' as clearly they don't. I don't match any of those characteristics. Brexiteers defend Brexit in my view and I have seen many here jump on Tory government for many other reasons, and clearly they have Voted for Brexit. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. Now that really is rich, there are many here that only try to argue from a balanced viewpoint only to be argued against with childishly snide remarks varying from the outright asinine to plain old nasty and no political argument contained. I have had misogynist comments made to me quite a few times now, just because I cared to discuss here. If a few disagree they just hurl and insult instead - from both sides. So. No you absolutely cannot characterise by whether or not you voted Brexit. "Balanced discussion" was specifically about history. I could give you examples, but not allowed to name names on the forums. But all the threads with history being discussed are there. You get jumped on for suggesting that the UK ever did anything less than exemplary. And yeah, sure, it's not everyone is always on the same team. But there are definite trends. The major exception to this is covid denial. Especially Garage's new anti-science party. This seems to have split brexiteers down the middle. And you could argue the reverse of these points. Remainers are mostly on the opposite side of the above arguments I mentioned. Misogynistic comments are abhorrent. And have no place in conversation. the thing is when you talk about British history you never say anything about the good you only ever talk about the bad how is that balanced lol That's simply not true. But if you only see the negative. What can i do." howay mate be honest don’t you think most of yr posts are more negative than positive tho I’d say most remainers are tho yr not alone | |||
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" And you get hammered for having an opinion here. Or maybe it's just the 'discussion' that you want? Sometimes. But as you pointed out, people often make it personal and attack the person, instead of the point they're making. " Well if only we could get the petty name calling and bully boy/girl commentary off forums we would all get along a little better. | |||
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" My experience is the opposite. I've noticed more people who think Brexit is a good idea. Think Scottish independence is a bad idea. And that just proves the point that there isn't a general entrenchment between two camps. What we are short of is 'other' parties and currently even a Labour Opposition. People are duplicit. They always have been, and they always will be, they will vote for what they want in any given moment they will vote because they don't like a person, and simply ignore the policy, they will vote because their friend said vote this or that way. They will vote under the pressure of the moment and depending on what the pressure is they can vote either way. People are also bright enough to divide one sets of politics from the other set. SNP and Brexit issues aren't even close to be the same thing. Some people know that and some people don't. But the most salient point of all is what/who do we really have to vote for? Labour need to reform themselves the Liberal Democrats I with people they have had in the past like Jo Swinson with her messiah complex was astonishing. On the issue of Brexit there was most definitely two entrenched camps - but in each of those camps local and national politics changes in people heads in both directions all the time - calling it that one is going to believe one thing simply because they believe another will lead you way up the garden path and get you no place to understanding it anytime soon. Whatever the topic, most of the people who think brexit is a good idea are on the same side. For example. The threads about the Tories paying billions to their friends and neighbours for dodgy PPE. Brexiteers defend the government. Any topic that discusses history. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. And only promote narratives that make the UK look positive. Any topic that involves some form of patriotism. Brexiteers attack anyone who suggests that the UK may not be universally perfect in every situation. Also, discussions of the media, brexiteers claim that the BBC and the media is overwhelmingly left wing. Despite all the evidence to the contrary. I'm sure there is more. But these pop into my head. People here are already saying they don't match those characteristics, so you can't put 'most do' as clearly they don't. I don't match any of those characteristics. Brexiteers defend Brexit in my view and I have seen many here jump on Tory government for many other reasons, and clearly they have Voted for Brexit. Brexiteers attack anyone who wants a balanced discussion. Now that really is rich, there are many here that only try to argue from a balanced viewpoint only to be argued against with childishly snide remarks varying from the outright asinine to plain old nasty and no political argument contained. I have had misogynist comments made to me quite a few times now, just because I cared to discuss here. If a few disagree they just hurl and insult instead - from both sides. So. No you absolutely cannot characterise by whether or not you voted Brexit. "Balanced discussion" was specifically about history. I could give you examples, but not allowed to name names on the forums. But all the threads with history being discussed are there. You get jumped on for suggesting that the UK ever did anything less than exemplary. And yeah, sure, it's not everyone is always on the same team. But there are definite trends. The major exception to this is covid denial. Especially Garage's new anti-science party. This seems to have split brexiteers down the middle. And you could argue the reverse of these points. Remainers are mostly on the opposite side of the above arguments I mentioned. Misogynistic comments are abhorrent. And have no place in conversation. the thing is when you talk about British history you never say anything about the good you only ever talk about the bad how is that balanced lol That's simply not true. But if you only see the negative. What can i do.howay mate be honest don’t you think most of yr posts are more negative than positive tho I’d say most remainers are tho yr not alone " My opinion of your posts is the same. I only ever see you saying negative things about people. | |||
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" And you get hammered for having an opinion here. Or maybe it's just the 'discussion' that you want? Sometimes. But as you pointed out, people often make it personal and attack the person, instead of the point they're making. Well if only we could get the petty name calling and bully boy/girl commentary off forums we would all get along a little better. "Yes indeed. | |||
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" And you get hammered for having an opinion here. Or maybe it's just the 'discussion' that you want? Sometimes. But as you pointed out, people often make it personal and attack the person, instead of the point they're making. Well if only we could get the petty name calling and bully boy/girl commentary off forums we would all get along a little better. " | |||
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"Agree. It beggars belief that the Conservative Party’s financial dealings, mismanagement, political idiocy, ignorance and sheer stupidity not to mention Johnson’s misleading of Parliament several times in his tenure and sheer utter hypocrisy and lies, has not resulted in them being hamstrung and politically castrated. The leader of the Labour Party as as useful as a useless thing and as weak as dishwater. Where is an opposition and where are the moral values of the U.K.? All I can see is general ignorance and stupidity amongst the majority of its population. Certainly nothing ‘Great’ to be seen. So we are back to the good old anyone who disagrees with your view is ignorant and stupid, it could of course that it's you that is wrong have you ever considered its YOU that is out of step and wrong ? " Did I miss Starmer growing a pair of political balls and the opposition and electorate asking for accountability from Westminster? Labour I presume must have their reasons, but the electorate are either ignorant of the facts or stupidly taking their eye off what is happening to the money borrowed in their name and given to Tory donors, and which will be repaid by them. I see no other choice. Instead, those vocally political appear to be incessantly arguing about Brexit and pontificating about anywhere but Westminster. The Conservative Party never had it so good. | |||
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"Agree. It beggars belief that the Conservative Party’s financial dealings, mismanagement, political idiocy, ignorance and sheer stupidity not to mention Johnson’s misleading of Parliament several times in his tenure and sheer utter hypocrisy and lies, has not resulted in them being hamstrung and politically castrated. The leader of the Labour Party as as useful as a useless thing and as weak as dishwater. Where is an opposition and where are the moral values of the U.K.? All I can see is general ignorance and stupidity amongst the majority of its population. Certainly nothing ‘Great’ to be seen. So we are back to the good old anyone who disagrees with your view is ignorant and stupid, it could of course that it's you that is wrong have you ever considered its YOU that is out of step and wrong ? Did I miss Starmer growing a pair of political balls and the opposition and electorate asking for accountability from Westminster? Labour I presume must have their reasons, but the electorate are either ignorant of the facts or stupidly taking their eye off what is happening to the money borrowed in their name and given to Tory donors, and which will be repaid by them. I see no other choice. Instead, those vocally political appear to be incessantly arguing about Brexit and pontificating about anywhere but Westminster. The Conservative Party never had it so good." So it's more stupid and ignorant insults again, if you believe money has been given away illegally then contact the police and show them your evidence, if any tory or civil servant has broken the law I will condemn them as mush as you do,its time to put up or shut up. All I see from you and others is name calling and insults to those who have a different opinion, it's no wonder the tories are doing well in the polls | |||
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"Personally, I think that it is. Prior to 2010/2011, disagreement was a healthy part on the national discourse. We learned and broadened our outlook by listening to opposing views and we had normal, healthy debate. The upcoming Brexit referendum seemingly poisoned the national narrative as the silent majority all but disappeared and the actual majority became entrenched into one of two camps. Now we have a political landscape turned on its head with Scottish Nationalists forgiving all for the sake on an independent Scotland. Brextremists aligned body and soul with Boris Johnson and the Conservatives despite the very essence of conservatism being to alienate ordinary working people. Why are people now so wedded to a political identity? " When you turn an issue into a yes no question it becomes a line in the sand. Rather than exploring a healthy compromise it has made camps and it only entrenches peoples beliefs when you are wedded to one or the other. It is true what they say, better to have a compromise which everyone hates rather than having half the people hating it, as all it does is sow the seeds of discord for a very long time. | |||
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