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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up "Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events. Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. | |||
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"The deportation of Chagossians from the Chagos Archipelago was the forced expulsion of the inhabitants of the island of Diego Garcia and the other islands of the British Indian Ocean Territory (BIOT) by the United Kingdom, at the request of the United States, beginning in 1968 and concluding on 27 April 1973 with the evacuation of Peros Banhos atoll. The people, known at the time as the Ilois, are today known as Chagos Islanders or Chagossians. Chagossians and human rights advocates have said that the Chagossian right of occupation was violated by the British Foreign Office as a result of the 1966 agreement between the British and American governments to provide an unpopulated island for a U.S. military base, and that additional compensation and a right of return be provided. Legal action to claim compensation and the right of abode in the Chagos began in April 1973 when 280 islanders, represented by a Mauritian attorney, petitioned the government of Mauritius to distribute the £650,000 compensation provided in 1972 by the British government to the Mauritian government for distribution. It was not distributed until 1977.[8] Various petitions and lawsuits have been ongoing since that time. The British government has consistently denied any illegalities in the expulsion despite the February 2019 advisory ruling of the ICJ against the ongoing enforced exile of the Chagossians. Are the British responsible - surely not. These people did not suit our needs so we trod all over them. British and proud..." Stay in France the home of Napolian and poverty | |||
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"The deportation of Chagossians from the Chagos Archipelago was the forced expulsion of the inhabitants of the island of Diego Garcia and the other islands of the British Indian Ocean Territory (BIOT) by the United Kingdom, at the request of the United States, beginning in 1968 and concluding on 27 April 1973 with the evacuation of Peros Banhos atoll. The people, known at the time as the Ilois, are today known as Chagos Islanders or Chagossians. Chagossians and human rights advocates have said that the Chagossian right of occupation was violated by the British Foreign Office as a result of the 1966 agreement between the British and American governments to provide an unpopulated island for a U.S. military base, and that additional compensation and a right of return be provided. Legal action to claim compensation and the right of abode in the Chagos began in April 1973 when 280 islanders, represented by a Mauritian attorney, petitioned the government of Mauritius to distribute the £650,000 compensation provided in 1972 by the British government to the Mauritian government for distribution. It was not distributed until 1977.[8] Various petitions and lawsuits have been ongoing since that time. The British government has consistently denied any illegalities in the expulsion despite the February 2019 advisory ruling of the ICJ against the ongoing enforced exile of the Chagossians. Are the British responsible - surely not. These people did not suit our needs so we trod all over them. British and proud...Stay in France the home of Napolian and poverty" 
Another gem
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"The deportation of Chagossians from the Chagos Archipelago was the forced expulsion of the inhabitants of the island of Diego Garcia and the other islands of the British Indian Ocean Territory (BIOT) by the United Kingdom, at the request of the United States, beginning in 1968 and concluding on 27 April 1973 with the evacuation of Peros Banhos atoll. The people, known at the time as the Ilois, are today known as Chagos Islanders or Chagossians. Chagossians and human rights advocates have said that the Chagossian right of occupation was violated by the British Foreign Office as a result of the 1966 agreement between the British and American governments to provide an unpopulated island for a U.S. military base, and that additional compensation and a right of return be provided. Legal action to claim compensation and the right of abode in the Chagos began in April 1973 when 280 islanders, represented by a Mauritian attorney, petitioned the government of Mauritius to distribute the £650,000 compensation provided in 1972 by the British government to the Mauritian government for distribution. It was not distributed until 1977.[8] Various petitions and lawsuits have been ongoing since that time. The British government has consistently denied any illegalities in the expulsion despite the February 2019 advisory ruling of the ICJ against the ongoing enforced exile of the Chagossians. Are the British responsible - surely not. These people did not suit our needs so we trod all over them. British and proud...Stay in France the home of Napolian and poverty" Brexit Britain in 2021. Open minded and welcoming. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. "all history or just Britain’s history ? | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?"All history is worth learning. Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world. Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born. I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me. "but don’t you wonder why only the things we should be ashamed of are the topics that come up the most on here mate ? It’s like we are supposed to be ashamed of been proud of anything now | |||
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"The deportation of Chagossians from the Chagos Archipelago was the forced expulsion of the inhabitants of the island of Diego Garcia and the other islands of the British Indian Ocean Territory (BIOT) by the United Kingdom, at the request of the United States, beginning in 1968 and concluding on 27 April 1973 with the evacuation of Peros Banhos atoll. The people, known at the time as the Ilois, are today known as Chagos Islanders or Chagossians. Chagossians and human rights advocates have said that the Chagossian right of occupation was violated by the British Foreign Office as a result of the 1966 agreement between the British and American governments to provide an unpopulated island for a U.S. military base, and that additional compensation and a right of return be provided. Legal action to claim compensation and the right of abode in the Chagos began in April 1973 when 280 islanders, represented by a Mauritian attorney, petitioned the government of Mauritius to distribute the £650,000 compensation provided in 1972 by the British government to the Mauritian government for distribution. It was not distributed until 1977.[8] Various petitions and lawsuits have been ongoing since that time. The British government has consistently denied any illegalities in the expulsion despite the February 2019 advisory ruling of the ICJ against the ongoing enforced exile of the Chagossians. Are the British responsible - surely not. These people did not suit our needs so we trod all over them. British and proud...Stay in France the home of Napolian and poverty Brexit Britain in 2021. Open minded and welcoming. " Stop being so sensitive | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me. but don’t you wonder why only the things we should be ashamed of are the topics that come up the most on here mate ? It’s like we are supposed to be ashamed of been proud of anything now "I dunno. Capt Lobster keeps bringing up the British empire. I'm happy to discuss anything. | |||
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"The deportation of Chagossians from the Chagos Archipelago was the forced expulsion of the inhabitants of the island of Diego Garcia and the other islands of the British Indian Ocean Territory (BIOT) by the United Kingdom, at the request of the United States, beginning in 1968 and concluding on 27 April 1973 with the evacuation of Peros Banhos atoll. The people, known at the time as the Ilois, are today known as Chagos Islanders or Chagossians. Chagossians and human rights advocates have said that the Chagossian right of occupation was violated by the British Foreign Office as a result of the 1966 agreement between the British and American governments to provide an unpopulated island for a U.S. military base, and that additional compensation and a right of return be provided. Legal action to claim compensation and the right of abode in the Chagos began in April 1973 when 280 islanders, represented by a Mauritian attorney, petitioned the government of Mauritius to distribute the £650,000 compensation provided in 1972 by the British government to the Mauritian government for distribution. It was not distributed until 1977.[8] Various petitions and lawsuits have been ongoing since that time. The British government has consistently denied any illegalities in the expulsion despite the February 2019 advisory ruling of the ICJ against the ongoing enforced exile of the Chagossians. Are the British responsible - surely not. These people did not suit our needs so we trod all over them. British and proud...Stay in France the home of Napolian and poverty Brexit Britain in 2021. Open minded and welcoming. Stop being so sensitive "  | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me. but don’t you wonder why only the things we should be ashamed of are the topics that come up the most on here mate ? It’s like we are supposed to be ashamed of been proud of anything now
I dunno. Capt Lobster keeps bringing up the British empire.
I'm happy to discuss anything. "as I thought to many people only see what they want to see on here | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up " | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me. "For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that. I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved. "I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia? We just learned about the good stuff. I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance."Wolf and I are younger than you and both our educations were different. I learnt a lot about the miners strikes and Thatcher as it’s part of my local history. Wolf grew up in Liverpool and was taught about the trans Atlantic sl@ve trade (there’s a really good museum there he says) so I think it differs by region. I’d imagine with the current trend in thinking there would be even bigger sections on negative histories in the curriculum nowadays. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved. "Totally agree, very well put | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.
Wolf and I are younger than you and both our educations were different. I learnt a lot about the miners strikes and Thatcher as it’s part of my local history. Wolf grew up in Liverpool and was taught about the trans Atlantic sl@ve trade (there’s a really good museum there he says) so I think it differs by region. I’d imagine with the current trend in thinking there would be even bigger sections on negative histories in the curriculum nowadays. "Yep the s###e museum is here cos half of the city was built from its profits. Like I said it may have changed now but people should be educated on our entire history, the good and the bad. I think it's fair to say there are quite a few myths flying around...you only need to give back to ww2 for that. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved. " | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.
Wolf and I are younger than you and both our educations were different. I learnt a lot about the miners strikes and Thatcher as it’s part of my local history. Wolf grew up in Liverpool and was taught about the trans Atlantic sl@ve trade (there’s a really good museum there he says) so I think it differs by region. I’d imagine with the current trend in thinking there would be even bigger sections on negative histories in the curriculum nowadays.
Yep the s###e museum is here cos half of the city was built from its profits.
Like I said it may have changed now but people should be educated on our entire history, the good and the bad.
I think it's fair to say there are quite a few myths flying around...you only need to give back to ww2 for that."You’ve hit a point that made me think there Lionel, and it ties in nicely to what I said before. Liverpool as a city was built on the back of sl@ves. First time wolf took me to the city he pointed out all the old buildings that were relics of the trade, like the old customs house, the Africa house building and told me all about Lloyds Bank and how it started. He made no bones at all about the fact that his home city has a bleak history, but at the same time he’s always ferociously proud of being scouse and never lets that grim history affect his mindset. You can remember misery without shame and feel pride all at the same time. It’s a good way to be. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved. " | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved. "I don't disagree with any of that. Good post. My opinion is that all the history needs to be taught in schools without shame and without pride. Just teach the kids the truth. Personally I don't associate pride or shame to anything that happened 100s of years before I was born, but if people do, that's cool. Probably what has happened on this forum, is I feel like I want to question posts of blind pride in the British empire (as an example) and calling for a return to it, not because I think anyone should be ashamed. But because firstly it seems like that attitude shows willfully ignoring vast sways of history. And secondly I have had the pleasure of living in former colonies, for years, so I am aware of the prevailing feeling towards the "British Empire". It is not a ticket to making friends. Same in the thread where people posed the question "are you proud of Britain". I couldn't say yes or no, there's things I am, and things I'm not. Being ashamed of Britain and Being proud of Britain just don't make sense to me. Again, if people do, fine. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I don't disagree with any of that.
Good post.
My opinion is that all the history needs to be taught in schools without shame and without pride. Just teach the kids the truth.
Personally I don't associate pride or shame to anything that happened 100s of years before I was born, but if people do, that's cool.
Probably what has happened on this forum, is I feel like I want to question posts of blind pride in the British empire (as an example) and calling for a return to it, not because I think anyone should be ashamed. But because firstly it seems like that attitude shows willfully ignoring vast sways of history.
And secondly I have had the pleasure of living in former colonies, for years, so I am aware of the prevailing feeling towards the "British Empire". It is not a ticket to making friends.
Same in the thread where people posed the question "are you proud of Britain". I couldn't say yes or no, there's things I am, and things I'm not. Being ashamed of Britain and Being proud of Britain just don't make sense to me. Again, if people do, fine. "And what is the prevailing feeling towards the British Empire? What do you mean, it is not a ticket to making friends? | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I don't disagree with any of that.
Good post.
My opinion is that all the history needs to be taught in schools without shame and without pride. Just teach the kids the truth.
Personally I don't associate pride or shame to anything that happened 100s of years before I was born, but if people do, that's cool.
Probably what has happened on this forum, is I feel like I want to question posts of blind pride in the British empire (as an example) and calling for a return to it, not because I think anyone should be ashamed. But because firstly it seems like that attitude shows willfully ignoring vast sways of history.
And secondly I have had the pleasure of living in former colonies, for years, so I am aware of the prevailing feeling towards the "British Empire". It is not a ticket to making friends.
Same in the thread where people posed the question "are you proud of Britain". I couldn't say yes or no, there's things I am, and things I'm not. Being ashamed of Britain and Being proud of Britain just don't make sense to me. Again, if people do, fine.
And what is the prevailing feeling towards the British Empire? What do you mean, it is not a ticket to making friends? "What point are you trying to make? The prevailing attitude in the former colonies is to have the realisation of what happened in their countries. | |||
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"I can understand a reluctance to embrace Imperialism as a whole hearted force for good in history. Me personally, I can feel pride at what Britain brought to the world (we’re called the mother of parliaments for a reason for example) at the same time as condemning concentration camps in the Boer War. They’re opinions and feelings that I think can exist in the same space, for sure. I think it just boils down to the individual. Wolf would argue against your point about former colonies having negative views of the Empire. He does a lot of Gurkha recruitment in Nepal and he’s adamant they’re the most pro British people on the planet. They love us more than our own population do. But that’s his personal view from his lived experience same as your view is yours. " I’m from an ex British protectorate. And the overall feeling is very positive towards the UK. | |||
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"I can understand a reluctance to embrace Imperialism as a whole hearted force for good in history. Me personally, I can feel pride at what Britain brought to the world (we’re called the mother of parliaments for a reason for example) at the same time as condemning concentration camps in the Boer War. They’re opinions and feelings that I think can exist in the same space, for sure. I think it just boils down to the individual. Wolf would argue against your point about former colonies having negative views of the Empire. He does a lot of Gurkha recruitment in Nepal and he’s adamant they’re the most pro British people on the planet. They love us more than our own population do. But that’s his personal view from his lived experience same as your view is yours. I’m from an ex British protectorate. And the overall feeling is very positive towards the UK." My experience has been a very positive view of Britain and the empire from former colonies too, but that doesn’t change someone else’s personal opinion or experiences. | |||
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"I can understand a reluctance to embrace Imperialism as a whole hearted force for good in history. Me personally, I can feel pride at what Britain brought to the world (we’re called the mother of parliaments for a reason for example) at the same time as condemning concentration camps in the Boer War. They’re opinions and feelings that I think can exist in the same space, for sure. I think it just boils down to the individual. Wolf would argue against your point about former colonies having negative views of the Empire. He does a lot of Gurkha recruitment in Nepal and he’s adamant they’re the most pro British people on the planet. They love us more than our own population do. But that’s his personal view from his lived experience same as your view is yours. " Firstly, I completely understand the first half there. That's my point, being proud of something specific makes sense to me. I've been to Nepal and parts of North East India that are primarily Gurkha. I found a mixed bag. At the time I was there, there as an intense legal battle over the rights to apply for British citizenship for soldiers who were discharged from the armed forces after 1997. So there was a mixture of feeling. Maybe things have changed now. If you go to Amritsar, or ROI, or the Carribbean, and ask the locals their opinion. They're usually very clued in on their history. | |||
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"I can understand a reluctance to embrace Imperialism as a whole hearted force for good in history. Me personally, I can feel pride at what Britain brought to the world (we’re called the mother of parliaments for a reason for example) at the same time as condemning concentration camps in the Boer War. They’re opinions and feelings that I think can exist in the same space, for sure. I think it just boils down to the individual. Wolf would argue against your point about former colonies having negative views of the Empire. He does a lot of Gurkha recruitment in Nepal and he’s adamant they’re the most pro British people on the planet. They love us more than our own population do. But that’s his personal view from his lived experience same as your view is yours. Firstly, I completely understand the first half there. That's my point, being proud of something specific makes sense to me. I've been to Nepal and parts of North East India that are primarily Gurkha. I found a mixed bag. At the time I was there, there as an intense legal battle over the rights to apply for British citizenship for soldiers who were discharged from the armed forces after 1997. So there was a mixture of feeling. Maybe things have changed now. If you go to Amritsar, or ROI, or the Carribbean, and ask the locals their opinion. They're usually very clued in on their history." Exactly - until there’s a global census done on opinions about the empire there’s going to be no definitive answer as to what former colonies actually think about it. Till that happens it’s down to individual experiences | |||
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"I can understand a reluctance to embrace Imperialism as a whole hearted force for good in history. Me personally, I can feel pride at what Britain brought to the world (we’re called the mother of parliaments for a reason for example) at the same time as condemning concentration camps in the Boer War. They’re opinions and feelings that I think can exist in the same space, for sure. I think it just boils down to the individual. Wolf would argue against your point about former colonies having negative views of the Empire. He does a lot of Gurkha recruitment in Nepal and he’s adamant they’re the most pro British people on the planet. They love us more than our own population do. But that’s his personal view from his lived experience same as your view is yours. Firstly, I completely understand the first half there. That's my point, being proud of something specific makes sense to me. I've been to Nepal and parts of North East India that are primarily Gurkha. I found a mixed bag. At the time I was there, there as an intense legal battle over the rights to apply for British citizenship for soldiers who were discharged from the armed forces after 1997. So there was a mixture of feeling. Maybe things have changed now. If you go to Amritsar, or ROI, or the Carribbean, and ask the locals their opinion. They're usually very clued in on their history. Exactly - until there’s a global census done on opinions about the empire there’s going to be no definitive answer as to what former colonies actually think about it. Till that happens it’s down to individual experiences " For sure. All I can say is, my experiences living in former colonies opened my eyes to how large parts of the world view things. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance."The winners of wars write history but not necessarily the truth sadly. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I don't disagree with any of that.
Good post.
My opinion is that all the history needs to be taught in schools without shame and without pride. Just teach the kids the truth.
Personally I don't associate pride or shame to anything that happened 100s of years before I was born, but if people do, that's cool.
Probably what has happened on this forum, is I feel like I want to question posts of blind pride in the British empire (as an example) and calling for a return to it, not because I think anyone should be ashamed. But because firstly it seems like that attitude shows willfully ignoring vast sways of history.
And secondly I have had the pleasure of living in former colonies, for years, so I am aware of the prevailing feeling towards the "British Empire". It is not a ticket to making friends.
Same in the thread where people posed the question "are you proud of Britain". I couldn't say yes or no, there's things I am, and things I'm not. Being ashamed of Britain and Being proud of Britain just don't make sense to me. Again, if people do, fine.
And what is the prevailing feeling towards the British Empire? What do you mean, it is not a ticket to making friends? "I read with interest Chris wanting empire and all the benefits . Seeing as we only finished paying off the compensation to the sl4ve traders in 2015 .. I’m not sure we can afford his gunboat diplomacy again. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance."yep teatch them young to hang there heads in shame A level guilt eh | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.yep teatch them young to hang there heads in shame A level guilt eh "Education doesnt mean guilt. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.yep teatch them young to hang there heads in shame A level guilt eh
Education doesnt mean guilt."lionel you would have the full country whipping themselves your another one only talks about the U.K. negatives mate | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.yep teatch them young to hang there heads in shame A level guilt eh
Education doesnt mean guilt.lionel you would have the full country whipping themselves your another one only talks about the U.K. negatives mate "I'll repeat I'm not sure how learning history is a bad thing. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.yep teatch them young to hang there heads in shame A level guilt eh
Education doesnt mean guilt.lionel you would have the full country whipping themselves your another one only talks about the U.K. negatives mate
I'll repeat
I'm not sure how learning history is a bad thing."it’s a great thing but once learned you want people to hang heads in shame funny how you and your squad never say a positive word about the U.K. all country’s have done shameful things mate | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.yep teatch them young to hang there heads in shame A level guilt eh
Education doesnt mean guilt.lionel you would have the full country whipping themselves your another one only talks about the U.K. negatives mate
I'll repeat
I'm not sure how learning history is a bad thing.it’s a great thing but once learned you want people to hang heads in shame funny how you and your squad never say a positive word about the U.K. all country’s have done shameful things mate "In fairness. No one has said anyone should be ashamed. In fact the "squad" has specifically argued that there should be no shame associated to learning the history of the country. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.yep teatch them young to hang there heads in shame A level guilt eh
Education doesnt mean guilt.lionel you would have the full country whipping themselves your another one only talks about the U.K. negatives mate
I'll repeat
I'm not sure how learning history is a bad thing.it’s a great thing but once learned you want people to hang heads in shame funny how you and your squad never say a positive word about the U.K. all country’s have done shameful things mate
In fairness. No one has said anyone should be ashamed.
In fact the "squad" has specifically argued that there should be no shame associated to learning the history of the country. "Can I refer you to the 4th post down? | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.yep teatch them young to hang there heads in shame A level guilt eh
Education doesnt mean guilt.lionel you would have the full country whipping themselves your another one only talks about the U.K. negatives mate
I'll repeat
I'm not sure how learning history is a bad thing.it’s a great thing but once learned you want people to hang heads in shame funny how you and your squad never say a positive word about the U.K. all country’s have done shameful things mate
In fairness. No one has said anyone should be ashamed.
In fact the "squad" has specifically argued that there should be no shame associated to learning the history of the country. "mate I promise ya I can’t remember one positive post of you and your squad lol can you tell me what you get from talking only about the negatives ? | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.yep teatch them young to hang there heads in shame A level guilt eh
Education doesnt mean guilt.lionel you would have the full country whipping themselves your another one only talks about the U.K. negatives mate
I'll repeat
I'm not sure how learning history is a bad thing.it’s a great thing but once learned you want people to hang heads in shame funny how you and your squad never say a positive word about the U.K. all country’s have done shameful things mate "Who has said anything about hanging their heads in shame? Liverpool was built on the s###e trade ,but I dont feel guilty about that. It's about acknowledging we have done some shitty things. I told you the other day there were loads of things to be proud about. | |||
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| |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.yep teatch them young to hang there heads in shame A level guilt eh
Education doesnt mean guilt.lionel you would have the full country whipping themselves your another one only talks about the U.K. negatives mate
I'll repeat
I'm not sure how learning history is a bad thing.it’s a great thing but once learned you want people to hang heads in shame funny how you and your squad never say a positive word about the U.K. all country’s have done shameful things mate
In fairness. No one has said anyone should be ashamed.
In fact the "squad" has specifically argued that there should be no shame associated to learning the history of the country.
Can I refer you to the 4th post down? "Exactly. Why would you be proud, or ashamed of the whole of British history. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.yep teatch them young to hang there heads in shame A level guilt eh
Education doesnt mean guilt.lionel you would have the full country whipping themselves your another one only talks about the U.K. negatives mate
I'll repeat
I'm not sure how learning history is a bad thing.it’s a great thing but once learned you want people to hang heads in shame funny how you and your squad never say a positive word about the U.K. all country’s have done shameful things mate
In fairness. No one has said anyone should be ashamed.
In fact the "squad" has specifically argued that there should be no shame associated to learning the history of the country. mate I promise ya I can’t remember one positive post of you and your squad lol can you tell me what you get from talking only about the negatives ?"People speaking up, and not standing for shit is why change happens. The NHS. weekends. Bank holidays. Women having the vote. All these things came from people not thinking "yeah everything's great". People stood up for what they believed in. You're welcome to ignore what's going on in the world around you, but I don't think that it's much use trying to suggest that we all do that. | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country" taking that into account I’m very proud of my country and not ashamed to say it | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country" Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. " like most country’s you mean atleast you finally spit out an answer took you long enough I feel sad that you live in a country your not proud of mate | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.yep teatch them young to hang there heads in shame A level guilt eh
Education doesnt mean guilt.lionel you would have the full country whipping themselves your another one only talks about the U.K. negatives mate
I'll repeat
I'm not sure how learning history is a bad thing.it’s a great thing but once learned you want people to hang heads in shame funny how you and your squad never say a positive word about the U.K. all country’s have done shameful things mate
In fairness. No one has said anyone should be ashamed.
In fact the "squad" has specifically argued that there should be no shame associated to learning the history of the country.
Can I refer you to the 4th post down?
Exactly. Why would you be proud, or ashamed of the whole of British history. "You said that no one has said that anyone should be ashamed and yet you've said it yourself  | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. " What’s the best country you been to Lionel? | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. like most country’s you mean atleast you finally spit out an answer took you long enough I feel sad that you live in a country your not proud of mate "
I gave you exactly the same answer I gave to.you on Friday. | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? " Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there " Never been Prague. Will check it out one day. I’m a tropical man myself. | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there Never been Prague. Will check it out one day. I’m a tropical man myself. " Prague is the nicest city I've ever been too Ibiza is lovely aswell. | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there " and have them not got anything to be ashamed of ? | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there " Thailand and Prague are both as corrupt as fuck  | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there and have them not got anything to be ashamed of ?" Eh? | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there Thailand and Prague are both as corrupt as fuck "I certainly wouldn't wanna be banged up in thailand | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there Thailand and Prague are both as corrupt as fuck "My kind of place.  | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there Thailand and Prague are both as corrupt as fuck
I certainly wouldn't wanna be banged up in thailand"why ? | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there Thailand and Prague are both as corrupt as fuck
I certainly wouldn't wanna be banged up in thailandwhy ?"Because I'm guessing it certainly wouldn't be a holiday camp. And I read a book by a lad who was banged up. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.yep teatch them young to hang there heads in shame A level guilt eh
Education doesnt mean guilt.lionel you would have the full country whipping themselves your another one only talks about the U.K. negatives mate
I'll repeat
I'm not sure how learning history is a bad thing.it’s a great thing but once learned you want people to hang heads in shame funny how you and your squad never say a positive word about the U.K. all country’s have done shameful things mate
In fairness. No one has said anyone should be ashamed.
In fact the "squad" has specifically argued that there should be no shame associated to learning the history of the country.
Can I refer you to the 4th post down?
Exactly. Why would you be proud, or ashamed of the whole of British history.
You said that no one has said that anyone should be ashamed and yet you've said it yourself "Can I unsubscribe from your nonsensical irrelevant obtuse questions? | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there Thailand and Prague are both as corrupt as fuck
I certainly wouldn't wanna be banged up in thailandwhy ?
Because I'm guessing it certainly wouldn't be a holiday camp.
And I read a book by a lad who was banged up."The boxer guy? Or kickboxer, whatever he was. | |||
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"According to the CPI (corruption perceptions index) Czech Republic sit 38th Thailand sit 99th The UK sits in 11th." I'm.giessing it would depend on your personal experience | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there Thailand and Prague are both as corrupt as fuck
I certainly wouldn't wanna be banged up in thailandwhy ?
Because I'm guessing it certainly wouldn't be a holiday camp.
And I read a book by a lad who was banged up."well if your going to be banged up Lionel there’s no better country than the U.K. to be banged up then lol | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there Thailand and Prague are both as corrupt as fuck
I certainly wouldn't wanna be banged up in thailandwhy ?
Because I'm guessing it certainly wouldn't be a holiday camp.
And I read a book by a lad who was banged up.
The boxer guy?
Or kickboxer, whatever he was."No that was tie film wasmt it? He was from liverpool him. No there is a book above fella who gets caught snuggling gear in and gets banged up in the Bangkok Hilton. | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there Thailand and Prague are both as corrupt as fuck
I certainly wouldn't wanna be banged up in thailandwhy ?
Because I'm guessing it certainly wouldn't be a holiday camp.
And I read a book by a lad who was banged up.
The boxer guy?
Or kickboxer, whatever he was."who Ruben Carter ? | |||
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"According to the CPI (corruption perceptions index) Czech Republic sit 38th Thailand sit 99th The UK sits in 11th. I'm.giessing it would depend on your personal experience " I don't think so. I've had some wonderful experiences worldwide but that doesn't alter the fact that some of the places I have been are corrupt | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there Thailand and Prague are both as corrupt as fuck
I certainly wouldn't wanna be banged up in thailandwhy ?
Because I'm guessing it certainly wouldn't be a holiday camp.
And I read a book by a lad who was banged up.well if your going to be banged up Lionel there’s no better country than the U.K. to be banged up then lol"I'm not so sure I certainly wouldnt fancy strangeways | |||
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"According to the CPI (corruption perceptions index) Czech Republic sit 38th Thailand sit 99th The UK sits in 11th. I'm.giessing it would depend on your personal experience I don't think so. I've had some wonderful experiences worldwide but that doesn't alter the fact that some of the places I have been are corrupt" And there have been horrendous miscarriages of justice here. | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there Thailand and Prague are both as corrupt as fuck
I certainly wouldn't wanna be banged up in thailandwhy ?
Because I'm guessing it certainly wouldn't be a holiday camp.
And I read a book by a lad who was banged up.
The boxer guy?
Or kickboxer, whatever he was.
No that was tie film wasmt it?
He was from liverpool him.
No there is a book above fella who gets caught snuggling gear in and gets banged up in the Bangkok Hilton."lol I thought yas where on about Ruben Carter it’s an unreal book not a bad film either | |||
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"According to the CPI (corruption perceptions index) Czech Republic sit 38th Thailand sit 99th The UK sits in 11th. I'm.giessing it would depend on your personal experience I don't think so. I've had some wonderful experiences worldwide but that doesn't alter the fact that some of the places I have been are corrupt And there have been horrendous miscarriages of justice here." Of course. I don't think anyone has denied that | |||
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"Maybe the question could be overall taking into account the positives and negatives are you proud of your country Personally I dont think so. I think there are a lot of positive things about living here(and I suspect people may even give different answers to that)but we have done some shitty things in the past and there are some shitty things going on right now. What’s the best country you been to Lionel? Hmmm..tough one..Thailand was amazing. Prague aswell(though obviously not a city) I dont think you can.fully know a country unless you spend time there Thailand and Prague are both as corrupt as fuck
I certainly wouldn't wanna be banged up in thailandwhy ?
Because I'm guessing it certainly wouldn't be a holiday camp.
And I read a book by a lad who was banged up.
The boxer guy?
Or kickboxer, whatever he was.
No that was tie film wasmt it?
He was from liverpool him.
No there is a book above fella who gets caught snuggling gear in and gets banged up in the Bangkok Hilton.lol I thought yas where on about Ruben Carter it’s an unreal book not a bad film either "Yeah Scouse fella. I don't fancy the sound of a Thai prison. | |||
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"Riveting tale old chap, maybe complain to Harold Wilson and Ted Heath about that one. You'll find the history of the West Africa Squadron fascinating and very proud to be British if you look that up
Surely if you're proud of some aspects of British history, you have to be ashamed of others. It makes no sense to associate with some ancient history, but completely disassociate from more recent events.
Surely all history is worth learning, regardless of if you think it's something to be proud or ashamed of. all history or just Britain’s history ?
All history is worth learning.
Obviously there isn't enough time to learn everything in the history of the world.
Just seems pointless being proud or ashamed of things that happened 100s of years before we were born.
I'm questioning why someone cherry picks pieces to be proud of, without considering all the rest. Seems meaningless to me.
For me it’s because I’m capable of recognising when my nation, in the past, did wrong. I’m capable of accepting those negative events as something morally wrong and repugnant but at the same time, I categorically refuse to apologise for them. And I certainly won’t mope about and take any opportunity to denigrate my nation for those wrongdoings like so many people seem to enjoy these days. We remember the positives and the great things with pride and affection because they’re the events that have developed us to where we are now. We can remember the negatives and say to each other ‘never again’, without lashing ourselves raw and prostrating ourselves before the fury of those we wronged years ago. I suppose a large part of it is ‘don’t dwell on the negatives’. Negativity creates a negative feedback loop and before you know it, you’re depressed and frankly boring and uninteresting to be around. It repulses others. I’d rather not be like that.
I like the video ‘Deutschland’ by Rammstein as an example of the cultural trauma that can be inflicted by demoralisation when left to grow unchecked. A German band singing about their heartache at wanting to feel pride in their nation and the great things they achieved prior to WW2 but being unable to as it’s frowned upon by their own state. I find that sad personally. It’s what worries me when I hear folk so eager to shit on Britain or even just England itself without acknowledging the amazing things we’ve achieved.
I dont know if things have changed now, but at school we were never taught about the shameful things we did in the past.For example how many people know about the atrocity we carried out in australia?
We just learned about the good stuff.
I agree about feeling guilty about it but there definitely needs to be more balance.yep teatch them young to hang there heads in shame A level guilt eh
Education doesnt mean guilt.lionel you would have the full country whipping themselves your another one only talks about the U.K. negatives mate
I'll repeat
I'm not sure how learning history is a bad thing.it’s a great thing but once learned you want people to hang heads in shame funny how you and your squad never say a positive word about the U.K. all country’s have done shameful things mate
In fairness. No one has said anyone should be ashamed.
In fact the "squad" has specifically argued that there should be no shame associated to learning the history of the country.
Can I refer you to the 4th post down?
Exactly. Why would you be proud, or ashamed of the whole of British history.
You said that no one has said that anyone should be ashamed and yet you've said it yourself
Can I unsubscribe from your nonsensical irrelevant obtuse questions?"Sure. But I will just repeat that you said 'no one has said anyone should be ashamed' And yet in the 4th post of this thread you said that they should if there are things that they are proud of. It's there in black and white | |||
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"the 130,000 british children forcibly deported over a period of 50 years to a life of servitude, hard labour and abuse in the decaying colonies is something to be very proud of? some peoples sense of pride appears very misplaced" Has anyone expressed pride in such events? | |||
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"the usual conservative lickspittle 'squad' have demanded unwavering pride in every action of the UK on another thread, so yes it appears that we must adulate the country including it's horrific treatment of it's children." Yep, some people are weirdly happy to repeatedly prove how callous they are. They do say about one in a hundred people meet the clinical criteria to be judged empathy bereft psychopaths... I'm sure the two things are unrelated. | |||
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