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Can Scotland really go it alone?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

After being told that Scotland would be refused admittance to the euro, and possibly the EU, what options would be available to go it alone as a sovereign nation?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"After being told that Scotland would be refused admittance to the euro, and possibly the EU, what options would be available to go it alone as a sovereign nation? "

Who told you this?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"After being told that Scotland would be refused admittance to the euro, and possibly the EU, what options would be available to go it alone as a sovereign nation?

Who told you this? "

Herd it from a news item early last year I think

Am i wrong?

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

yes lets have a border right across the midline and have done with it

Thery have their own bank/own note so bring it on

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

If it took over 4 years to leave the UK, be prepared for 20 years for Scotland to leave the UK.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

Scottish government, Sturgeon and the SNP under increasing pressure in the following weeks..

In the run up to the elections in May, expect some changes

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

quite easily

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"quite easily"

Well intentioned, but certainly not easily - starting with something the SNP have not provided a credible proposal for - a currency.

Scots like nothing more than knowing the money in their pocket is safe.

The SNP can not provide this security.

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee


"quite easily

Well intentioned, but certainly not easily - starting with something the SNP have not provided a credible proposal for - a currency.

Scots like nothing more than knowing the money in their pocket is safe.

The SNP can not provide this security. "

Congrats for perpetuating the stereotype of parsimonious Scots.

*slow clap*

There are in fact several *credible* options for Scottish currency. The best option in 2014 was continuation with sterling - whether that would be the best option now remains to be seen.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"quite easily

Well intentioned, but certainly not easily - starting with something the SNP have not provided a credible proposal for - a currency.

Scots like nothing more than knowing the money in their pocket is safe.

The SNP can not provide this security.

Congrats for perpetuating the stereotype of parsimonious Scots.

*slow clap*

There are in fact several *credible* options for Scottish currency. The best option in 2014 was continuation with sterling - whether that would be the best option now remains to be seen."

as evidenced in the result of the 2014 referendum - one of the main reasons to remain in the UK - keeping the pound in their pocket.

For an independent Scotland to continue with Sterling would require an approval mechanism to be in place. That is highly unlikely - oh, and it wouldn't be Boris' decision!

And the well known characteristic of the Scots being a frugal people is no less derogatory than the same characteristic being applied to Yorkshire folk..

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"quite easily

Well intentioned, but certainly not easily - starting with something the SNP have not provided a credible proposal for - a currency.

Scots like nothing more than knowing the money in their pocket is safe.

The SNP can not provide this security.

Congrats for perpetuating the stereotype of parsimonious Scots.

*slow clap*

There are in fact several *credible* options for Scottish currency. The best option in 2014 was continuation with sterling - whether that would be the best option now remains to be seen."

Sterling is controlled by the Bank of England. In London.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"After being told that Scotland would be refused admittance to the euro, and possibly the EU, what options would be available to go it alone as a sovereign nation? "

I don't know how accurate this is. But if Scotland can't rejoin the EU, then voting for independence is insanity.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

[Removed by poster at 29/01/21 12:28:23]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"After being told that Scotland would be refused admittance to the euro, and possibly the EU, what options would be available to go it alone as a sovereign nation?

I don't know how accurate this is. But if Scotland can't rejoin the EU, then voting for independence is insanity. "

There’s no evidence of this at all. This is the argument used by the tories to convince the Scots that it’d be a bad idea.

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee


"quite easily

Well intentioned, but certainly not easily - starting with something the SNP have not provided a credible proposal for - a currency.

Scots like nothing more than knowing the money in their pocket is safe.

The SNP can not provide this security.

Congrats for perpetuating the stereotype of parsimonious Scots.

*slow clap*

There are in fact several *credible* options for Scottish currency. The best option in 2014 was continuation with sterling - whether that would be the best option now remains to be seen.

as evidenced in the result of the 2014 referendum - one of the main reasons to remain in the UK - keeping the pound in their pocket.

For an independent Scotland to continue with Sterling would require an approval mechanism to be in place. That is highly unlikely - oh, and it wouldn't be Boris' decision!

And the well known characteristic of the Scots being a frugal people is no less derogatory than the same characteristic being applied to Yorkshire folk.."

hmmm so when George Osborne ruled out that option in 2014 he was acting beyond his authority then?

An honest mistake though I'm sure...

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"quite easily

Well intentioned, but certainly not easily - starting with something the SNP have not provided a credible proposal for - a currency.

Scots like nothing more than knowing the money in their pocket is safe.

The SNP can not provide this security.

Congrats for perpetuating the stereotype of parsimonious Scots.

*slow clap*

There are in fact several *credible* options for Scottish currency. The best option in 2014 was continuation with sterling - whether that would be the best option now remains to be seen.

as evidenced in the result of the 2014 referendum - one of the main reasons to remain in the UK - keeping the pound in their pocket.

For an independent Scotland to continue with Sterling would require an approval mechanism to be in place. That is highly unlikely - oh, and it wouldn't be Boris' decision!

And the well known characteristic of the Scots being a frugal people is no less derogatory than the same characteristic being applied to Yorkshire folk..

hmmm so when George Osborne ruled out that option in 2014 he was acting beyond his authority then?

An honest mistake though I'm sure... "

The matter of currency is today as much an obstacle as it was back in 2014, without even having to touch on the subject of a good faith commitment to adopt the Euro, which would be required to join the EU.

It's utter nonsense, and the sooner the rotten nationalist party and government are uncovered for what they are, the better.

The signs are there that it will not be too long before this happens.

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By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon


"quite easily

Well intentioned, but certainly not easily - starting with something the SNP have not provided a credible proposal for - a currency.

Scots like nothing more than knowing the money in their pocket is safe.

The SNP can not provide this security.

Congrats for perpetuating the stereotype of parsimonious Scots.

*slow clap*

There are in fact several *credible* options for Scottish currency. The best option in 2014 was continuation with sterling - whether that would be the best option now remains to be seen.

as evidenced in the result of the 2014 referendum - one of the main reasons to remain in the UK - keeping the pound in their pocket.

For an independent Scotland to continue with Sterling would require an approval mechanism to be in place. That is highly unlikely - oh, and it wouldn't be Boris' decision!

And the well known characteristic of the Scots being a frugal people is no less derogatory than the same characteristic being applied to Yorkshire folk.."

They already have their own currency - it’s the ‘Poond’

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"quite easily

Well intentioned, but certainly not easily - starting with something the SNP have not provided a credible proposal for - a currency.

Scots like nothing more than knowing the money in their pocket is safe.

The SNP can not provide this security.

Congrats for perpetuating the stereotype of parsimonious Scots.

*slow clap*

There are in fact several *credible* options for Scottish currency. The best option in 2014 was continuation with sterling - whether that would be the best option now remains to be seen.

as evidenced in the result of the 2014 referendum - one of the main reasons to remain in the UK - keeping the pound in their pocket.

For an independent Scotland to continue with Sterling would require an approval mechanism to be in place. That is highly unlikely - oh, and it wouldn't be Boris' decision!

And the well known characteristic of the Scots being a frugal people is no less derogatory than the same characteristic being applied to Yorkshire folk..

hmmm so when George Osborne ruled out that option in 2014 he was acting beyond his authority then?

An honest mistake though I'm sure... "

The governor of bank of England ruled it out as the plan (after they dropped the original plans) was to use Stirling but want the bank of England to be the lender of last resort meaning if Scotland had financial problems England would be forced to help. Not surprising it was ruled out. There is nothing stopping any country using Stirling or euro ect but as its not their own they have no control over policy and would have to keep huge reserves

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"They already have their own currency - it’s the ‘Poond’ "

I'm sure we had this same line about 2 months ago on another thread of the same subject... there was then a series of messages about Scots folk never saying this word...

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee


"quite easily

Well intentioned, but certainly not easily - starting with something the SNP have not provided a credible proposal for - a currency.

Scots like nothing more than knowing the money in their pocket is safe.

The SNP can not provide this security.

Congrats for perpetuating the stereotype of parsimonious Scots.

*slow clap*

There are in fact several *credible* options for Scottish currency. The best option in 2014 was continuation with sterling - whether that would be the best option now remains to be seen.

as evidenced in the result of the 2014 referendum - one of the main reasons to remain in the UK - keeping the pound in their pocket.

For an independent Scotland to continue with Sterling would require an approval mechanism to be in place. That is highly unlikely - oh, and it wouldn't be Boris' decision!

And the well known characteristic of the Scots being a frugal people is no less derogatory than the same characteristic being applied to Yorkshire folk..

hmmm so when George Osborne ruled out that option in 2014 he was acting beyond his authority then?

An honest mistake though I'm sure...

The governor of bank of England ruled it out as the plan (after they dropped the original plans) was to use Stirling but want the bank of England to be the lender of last resort meaning if Scotland had financial problems England would be forced to help. Not surprising it was ruled out. There is nothing stopping any country using Stirling or euro ect but as its not their own they have no control over policy and would have to keep huge reserves"

Well... not really - he said, in essence, that it would come with strings attached, and Scotland would need to ced e some sovereignty.

I'm not advocating that it is/was a good idea. But I think its important to be accurate.

On the broader topic of currency though. I think the issue is very much linked to national ambition. Britains ambitions are decidedly imperial and their attitude to the pound reflects that. The unionist argument rests on the assumption that Scottish ambitions would be the same.

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By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon


"They already have their own currency - it’s the ‘Poond’

I'm sure we had this same line about 2 months ago on another thread of the same subject... there was then a series of messages about Scots folk never saying this word... "

Well remembered, at least I’m consistent! I nicked it from a Lee Nelson sketch - it’s funny when he says it.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"They already have their own currency - it’s the ‘Poond’

I'm sure we had this same line about 2 months ago on another thread of the same subject... there was then a series of messages about Scots folk never saying this word...

Well remembered, at least I’m consistent! I nicked it from a Lee Nelson sketch - it’s funny when he says it."

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

Sadly Scotland could not survive on its own and why should we then help them.

All they are is a part of the UK as England is and Wales is.N Ireland is different possibly.

Sturgeon is puting fake news to her people by saying they can just return to the EU they cannot it takes years also the EU is broke so cannot really kelp them

The EU has proved in the last few days what a mean nasty selfish incompitant organisation it is over the vaccine.

If they wish to become a third world nation then that is there choice but they better had not come south taking our jobs,our homes etc.

We can give Donald a job building back Hadrians wall as a hod carrier lol

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By *oxychick35Couple
over a year ago

thornaby

[Removed by poster at 29/01/21 18:11:35]

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff


"Sadly Scotland could not survive on its own and why should we then help them.

All they are is a part of the UK as England is and Wales is.N Ireland is different possibly.

Sturgeon is puting fake news to her people by saying they can just return to the EU they cannot it takes years also the EU is broke so cannot really kelp them

The EU has proved in the last few days what a mean nasty selfish incompitant organisation it is over the vaccine.

If they wish to become a third world nation then that is there choice but they better had not come south taking our jobs,our homes etc.

We can give Donald a job building back Hadrians wall as a hod carrier lol

"

& you pushed for Brexit, the irony

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By *renzMan
over a year ago

Between Chichester and Havant


"After being told that Scotland would be refused admittance to the euro, and possibly the EU, what options would be available to go it alone as a sovereign nation?

Who told you this? "

If I remember correctly, an independent Scotland were told they would not automatically be admitted into the EU. They would have to apply as any other nation wanting to join and meet the criteria to do so. It wasn't certain at the time Scotland would meet that criteria, although I can't remember what that was, I didn't take that much interest.

Now, Scotland may find the EU would accept them more easily, I'm sure they would love another border! They could could theoretically fund an independence campaign much like the Russians did with Brexit.

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"After being told that Scotland would be refused admittance to the euro, and possibly the EU, what options would be available to go it alone as a sovereign nation?

Who told you this?

If I remember correctly, an independent Scotland were told they would not automatically be admitted into the EU. They would have to apply as any other nation wanting to join and meet the criteria to do so. It wasn't certain at the time Scotland would meet that criteria, although I can't remember what that was, I didn't take that much interest.

Now, Scotland may find the EU would accept them more easily, I'm sure they would love another border! They could could theoretically fund an independence campaign much like the Russians did with Brexit. "

Yes they need to apply like any other country wishing to join and meet certain financial targets set by the EU. Deficit is often a sticking point

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ah, not only are people epidemiologists, scientists, psychologists, medical or action era and geniuses, they are now founts of all knowledge about a country the don’t live in, don’t contribute to and don’t have any knowledge of except for here-say and daily rags.

Bless.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"Ah, not only are people epidemiologists, scientists, psychologists, medical or action era and geniuses, they are now founts of all knowledge about a country the don’t live in, don’t contribute to and don’t have any knowledge of except for here-say and daily rags.

Bless."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ah, not only are people epidemiologists, scientists, psychologists, medical or action era and geniuses, they are now founts of all knowledge about a country the don’t live in, don’t contribute to and don’t have any knowledge of except for here-say and daily rags.

Bless."

They are also customs experts.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"After being told that Scotland would be refused admittance to the euro, and possibly the EU, what options would be available to go it alone as a sovereign nation?

Who told you this?

If I remember correctly, an independent Scotland were told they would not automatically be admitted into the EU. They would have to apply as any other nation wanting to join and meet the criteria to do so. It wasn't certain at the time Scotland would meet that criteria, although I can't remember what that was, I didn't take that much interest.

Now, Scotland may find the EU would accept them more easily, I'm sure they would love another border! They could could theoretically fund an independence campaign much like the Russians did with Brexit.

Yes they need to apply like any other country wishing to join and meet certain financial targets set by the EU. Deficit is often a sticking point"

Which is of course closely linked to the currency of that country...

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By *ust some cock suckerMan
over a year ago

Preston


"

Thery have their own bank/own note so bring it on "

Not quite what is meant by having your own currency and national bank.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich

Spain will always veto any attempt to join with their problems with Catalonia and the Basque country possibly Belgium to .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Keep up lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Spain will always veto any attempt to join with their problems with Catalonia and the Basque country possibly Belgium to . "

The old chestnut. Spain has never confirmed this. Another fan of the project fear. We can add spanish foreign policy to the list of expertise of leavers.

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By *renzMan
over a year ago

Between Chichester and Havant


"Ah, not only are people epidemiologists, scientists, psychologists, medical or action era and geniuses, they are now founts of all knowledge about a country the don’t live in, don’t contribute to and don’t have any knowledge of except for here-say and daily rags.

Bless."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Keep up lol"

Don’t be too harsh. One trick poneys have been obsessed with technocrats for five years. They have completely missed that Spain has said it wouldn’t veto Scotland joining the EU.

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By *uietlyKinkyUsCouple
over a year ago

midlands


"Ah, not only are people epidemiologists, scientists, psychologists, medical or action era and geniuses, they are now founts of all knowledge about a country the don’t live in, don’t contribute to and don’t have any knowledge of except for here-say and daily rags.

Bless."

Maybe you'd be better looking at academic and specialist sites, if you only want the views of various experts.

This forum is for all people to discuss their thoughts and ideas, open to all.

You don't need to be an expert to share ideas or ask questions

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ah, but it’s not ideas, it’s dogmatic statements with the illusion of knowledge and in some cases, superiority meshed with bigotry.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ah, but it’s not ideas, it’s dogmatic statements with the illusion of knowledge and in some cases, superiority meshed with bigotry."

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"Ah, but it’s not ideas, it’s dogmatic statements with the illusion of knowledge and in some cases, superiority meshed with bigotry."

Do you think Scotland can go it alone?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"Ah, but it’s not ideas, it’s dogmatic statements with the illusion of knowledge and in some cases, superiority meshed with bigotry."

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

quite easily

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sadly Scotland could not survive on its own and why should we then help them.

All they are is a part of the UK as England is and Wales is.N Ireland is different possibly.

Sturgeon is puting fake news to her people by saying they can just return to the EU they cannot it takes years also the EU is broke so cannot really kelp them

The EU has proved in the last few days what a mean nasty selfish incompitant organisation it is over the vaccine.

If they wish to become a third world nation then that is there choice but they better had not come south taking our jobs,our homes etc.

We can give Donald a job building back Hadrians wall as a hod carrier lol

"

WOW!!

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"Sadly Scotland could not survive on its own and why should we then help them.

All they are is a part of the UK as England is and Wales is.N Ireland is different possibly.

Sturgeon is puting fake news to her people by saying they can just return to the EU they cannot it takes years also the EU is broke so cannot really kelp them

The EU has proved in the last few days what a mean nasty selfish incompitant organisation it is over the vaccine.

If they wish to become a third world nation then that is there choice but they better had not come south taking our jobs,our homes etc.

We can give Donald a job building back Hadrians wall as a hod carrier lol

WOW!!"

You get used to it

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By *amish SMan
over a year ago

Eastleigh

A 5 year transition to find and setup a base for the nuclear deterrent would be needed. Then let them decide, maybe with an opt back in clause.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I recall before the Scottish referendum on independence the EU supported for them to remain in the union as it would take them a long time to enter the EU as a member IF they were accepted as a sovereign nation. Looking back think of the twisty and windy roads politics is haha its crazy. Perhaps they will support independence now though.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Keep up lol

Don’t be too harsh. One trick poneys have been obsessed with technocrats for five years. They have completely missed that Spain has said it wouldn’t veto Scotland joining the EU. "
Spain haven't actually said they wouldn't either i think the term we will cross that bridge when we come to it was used.

If you cant see that the eu engaged with Scotland at the beginning of the talks to undermine the uk,s position you must be blind.

As for project fear im happy for scotland to leave and join the eu if thats what the people of scotland want but you have to ask yourself what is the benefit to the eu a country with 5.4 million people but a large land boarder with the uk and cant meet the fiscal requirements ( i think they have learnt their lesson on fixing the books for countries to join).

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

SNP.... we have been taken out of a trading block, denied free movement and have borders imposed on us.

SNP.... we want to leave a trading block, have movement restrictions put on us, and have a border imposed on us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out "

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

The Scottish Nationalist Party are bad for Scotland and will destroy the nation.

#SaveOurScoland

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out "

Some people still think England gets to tell the world what to do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence? "

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath "

So you wanna call people against indy 'ill informed and nasty' but it's a waste of breath to 'inform them'.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath "
Im all ears if the people of Scotland want it im for it but it would be nice to know why if people dont say, how is it supposed to be fixed?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath Im all ears if the people of Scotland want it im for it but it would be nice to know why if people dont say, how is it supposed to be fixed?"

Better to learn for yourself no influenced either way and decide for yourself without any bias

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath Im all ears if the people of Scotland want it im for it but it would be nice to know why if people dont say, how is it supposed to be fixed?

Better to learn for yourself no influenced either way and decide for yourself without any bias "
I cant i dont live there so how am i to know what you think is wrong with the union if people like yourself wont tell me?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath Im all ears if the people of Scotland want it im for it but it would be nice to know why if people dont say, how is it supposed to be fixed?

Better to learn for yourself no influenced either way and decide for yourself without any bias "

But aren't you trying to influence yourself by saying people are 'ill informed'?

How are we supposed to be informed if you don't tell us? Besides, it won't really matter as England won't get a say.

Have a referendum if that's what the Scottish people want, I'm not against it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath Im all ears if the people of Scotland want it im for it but it would be nice to know why if people dont say, how is it supposed to be fixed?"

Maybe they just want to take back control? Maybe they’re fed up being led remotely by people who they feel are not doing a good job for their country? Maybe they just want to do things their own way?

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

it seems the question that should be asked is how exactly will N0.10 be able to stop a scottish referendum and indeed how will they stop the consequent break of the union?

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath Im all ears if the people of Scotland want it im for it but it would be nice to know why if people dont say, how is it supposed to be fixed?

Maybe they just want to take back control? Maybe they’re fed up being led remotely by people who they feel are not doing a good job for their country? Maybe they just want to do things their own way? "
A lot of maybe's do you live in scotland are you scotish by any chance? as i was asking someone who does .Have you ever thought that you could be part of the problem someone living in England answering for someone in Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"it seems the question that should be asked is how exactly will N0.10 be able to stop a scottish referendum and indeed how will they stop the consequent break of the union?"

Just by saying no I guess. The problem is the more they will say no, the more they will alienate the S it’s who are sitting on the fence and the more inevitable the issue will become..

I mean when you have a pm saying ‘it’s not right to have a referendum in the middle of a pandemic’ it tells you how thin their arguments are.

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

If you think the Irish border is a pain in the ass then just imagine what one right across the country will be

And what fun it would be to live in cumbria and Northumberland which is where it would be

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

“Take back control” - Scotland has a devolved parliament and more direct responsibility.

“Fed up being led remotely blah blah” - Scotland is “led” by Sturgeon

“Want to do things their own way” - aren't they already doing this, as evidenced by their own covid response. (just as a quick aside though - why are Scotland lagging behind so much in vaccinating their most vulnerable? )

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By *ering SeaMan
over a year ago

Penicuik


"I mean when you have a pm saying ‘it’s not right to have a referendum in the middle of a pandemic’ it tells you how thin their arguments are. "

Over 70 countries held elections last year during pandemic without any problem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath Im all ears if the people of Scotland want it im for it but it would be nice to know why if people dont say, how is it supposed to be fixed?

Maybe they just want to take back control? Maybe they’re fed up being led remotely by people who they feel are not doing a good job for their country? Maybe they just want to do things their own way? A lot of maybe's do you live in scotland are you scotish by any chance? as i was asking someone who does .Have you ever thought that you could be part of the problem someone living in England answering for someone in Scotland. "

No I’m not Scottish but I do have connections with Scotland. I feel it’s a complete different country than England and in past ten years both countries couldn’t be further apart. Scotland is a left wing country for a start and it has always been England isn’t and has got further right wing with a populist gvt.

I know quite a few Scots who voted against at independence in 2014 but who are completely pro independence now.

Where do you start with how different Scotland is? You could honestly write a novel about it. The list is endless in my opinion. Politically, culturally, socially etc.. these two countries or nations to be exact are miles apart!

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

law and order is devolved. how exactly will No.10 be able to stop an advisory referendum?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

“Take back control” - Scotland has a devolved parliament and more direct responsibility.

“Fed up being led remotely blah blah” - Scotland is “led” by Sturgeon

“Want to do things their own way” - aren't they already doing this, as evidenced by their own covid response. (just as a quick aside though - why are Scotland lagging behind so much in vaccinating their most vulnerable? )

"

You may not like Sturgeon but the SNP have been in office for a very long time now and it doesn’t look like they’re going anywhere. They’re still going very strong. I assume that if she was so bad and the SNP doing such a bad job, they’ve would have turned to your beloved tories by now. But according to the polls, it looks like you’re in for another rout on the next election.

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"law and order is devolved. how exactly will No.10 be able to stop an advisory referendum?"

Let them have it as long as they pay for it themselves

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham


"law and order is devolved. how exactly will No.10 be able to stop an advisory referendum?"

And if the otherside refuse to take part?

Remember Catalonia?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath Im all ears if the people of Scotland want it im for it but it would be nice to know why if people dont say, how is it supposed to be fixed?

Better to learn for yourself no influenced either way and decide for yourself without any bias I cant i dont live there so how am i to know what you think is wrong with the union if people like yourself wont tell me?"

There is plenty to read and get informed that’s a cop out sorry

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath Im all ears if the people of Scotland want it im for it but it would be nice to know why if people dont say, how is it supposed to be fixed?

Maybe they just want to take back control? Maybe they’re fed up being led remotely by people who they feel are not doing a good job for their country? Maybe they just want to do things their own way? A lot of maybe's do you live in scotland are you scotish by any chance? as i was asking someone who does .Have you ever thought that you could be part of the problem someone living in England answering for someone in Scotland.

No I’m not Scottish but I do have connections with Scotland. I feel it’s a complete different country than England and in past ten years both countries couldn’t be further apart. Scotland is a left wing country for a start and it has always been England isn’t and has got further right wing with a populist gvt.

I know quite a few Scots who voted against at independence in 2014 but who are completely pro independence now.

Where do you start with how different Scotland is? You could honestly write a novel about it. The list is endless in my opinion. Politically, culturally, socially etc.. these two countries or nations to be exact are miles apart! "
Well why are you trying to drown out the ladies voice? personally i would rather hear from someone who lives there and to understand what her actual grievance is rather than some left wing Englishman who seems to know everything.

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"

“Take back control” - Scotland has a devolved parliament and more direct responsibility.

“Fed up being led remotely blah blah” - Scotland is “led” by Sturgeon

“Want to do things their own way” - aren't they already doing this, as evidenced by their own covid response. (just as a quick aside though - why are Scotland lagging behind so much in vaccinating their most vulnerable? )

You may not like Sturgeon but the SNP have been in office for a very long time now and it doesn’t look like they’re going anywhere. They’re still going very strong. I assume that if she was so bad and the SNP doing such a bad job, they’ve would have turned to your beloved tories by now. But according to the polls, it looks like you’re in for another rout on the next election. "

And so they should have thier own party to represent themselves after all they are a country.

It's a pitty than they ahev but one gole to leave at all costs

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

if a yes vote is returned by a simple majority of the electorate then a unionist boycott is utterly pointless.

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By *ering SeaMan
over a year ago

Penicuik


"law and order is devolved. how exactly will No.10 be able to stop an advisory referendum?

And if the otherside refuse to take part?

Remember Catalonia? "

Catalonia is akin to Liverpool wanting to break from the rest of England.

Completely different to a political union.

Scotland remains sovereign. Catalonia is not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath Im all ears if the people of Scotland want it im for it but it would be nice to know why if people dont say, how is it supposed to be fixed?

Maybe they just want to take back control? Maybe they’re fed up being led remotely by people who they feel are not doing a good job for their country? Maybe they just want to do things their own way? A lot of maybe's do you live in scotland are you scotish by any chance? as i was asking someone who does .Have you ever thought that you could be part of the problem someone living in England answering for someone in Scotland.

No I’m not Scottish but I do have connections with Scotland. I feel it’s a complete different country than England and in past ten years both countries couldn’t be further apart. Scotland is a left wing country for a start and it has always been England isn’t and has got further right wing with a populist gvt.

I know quite a few Scots who voted against at independence in 2014 but who are completely pro independence now.

Where do you start with how different Scotland is? You could honestly write a novel about it. The list is endless in my opinion. Politically, culturally, socially etc.. these two countries or nations to be exact are miles apart! Well why are you trying to drown out the ladies voice? personally i would rather hear from someone who lives there and to understand what her actual grievance is rather than some left wing Englishman who seems to know everything."

Oh the gender card....Clutching at straws I see.

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

it seems that remebering catalonia is irrelevant. britain has no guardia civil to over-ride the scottish police. how exactly will No.10 stop an advisory referendum?

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

The rottenness of the Scottish Nationalist Party isn't limited only to the Murrells, it's all the way through to it's core.

There is a change coming, I only hope it's not too late .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath Im all ears if the people of Scotland want it im for it but it would be nice to know why if people dont say, how is it supposed to be fixed?

Better to learn for yourself no influenced either way and decide for yourself without any bias

But aren't you trying to influence yourself by saying people are 'ill informed'?

How are we supposed to be informed if you don't tell us? Besides, it won't really matter as England won't get a say.

Yes influencing in a way to be informed lol read don’t read no odds to me what a stupid answer

Have a referendum if that's what the Scottish people want, I'm not against it. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wonder how many people in England know that Scotland already has its own judiciary and education systems which are completely different from what we have in England.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath Im all ears if the people of Scotland want it im for it but it would be nice to know why if people dont say, how is it supposed to be fixed?

Maybe they just want to take back control? Maybe they’re fed up being led remotely by people who they feel are not doing a good job for their country? Maybe they just want to do things their own way? A lot of maybe's do you live in scotland are you scotish by any chance? as i was asking someone who does .Have you ever thought that you could be part of the problem someone living in England answering for someone in Scotland.

No I’m not Scottish but I do have connections with Scotland. I feel it’s a complete different country than England and in past ten years both countries couldn’t be further apart. Scotland is a left wing country for a start and it has always been England isn’t and has got further right wing with a populist gvt.

I know quite a few Scots who voted against at independence in 2014 but who are completely pro independence now.

Where do you start with how different Scotland is? You could honestly write a novel about it. The list is endless in my opinion. Politically, culturally, socially etc.. these two countries or nations to be exact are miles apart! Well why are you trying to drown out the ladies voice? personally i would rather hear from someone who lives there and to understand what her actual grievance is rather than some left wing Englishman who seems to know everything.

Oh the gender card....Clutching at straws I see. "
No straws to clutch let the scots speak for themselves bob as i said before maybe you and people like you are part of the problem drowning out the people of Scotland. lets hear what they have to say not some Englishman living in England and then maybe we will get some understanding of their grievances and how to fix them.

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By *ering SeaMan
over a year ago

Penicuik


"The rottenness of the Scottish Nationalist Party isn't limited only to the Murrells, it's all the way through to it's core.

There is a change coming, I only hope it's not too late ."

Scottish National Party,

Coco the clown gets reprimanded often enough to know that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The rottenness of the Scottish Nationalist Party isn't limited only to the Murrells, it's all the way through to it's core.

There is a change coming, I only hope it's not too late ."

I see that you are as knowledgeable as Boris by calling the SNP the Scottish nationalist party. He does it on purpose. That’s the type of pettiness that contributes to rattle even more people over there.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"The rottenness of the Scottish Nationalist Party isn't limited only to the Murrells, it's all the way through to it's core.

There is a change coming, I only hope it's not too late .

Scottish National Party,

Coco the clown gets reprimanded often enough to know that "

really?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

So tell us how it is. What are your arguements for independence?

Iv learned a long time ago not to engage with this question as ppl that are not for it don’t listen to what’s being said it’s a waste of my time and breath Im all ears if the people of Scotland want it im for it but it would be nice to know why if people dont say, how is it supposed to be fixed?

Maybe they just want to take back control? Maybe they’re fed up being led remotely by people who they feel are not doing a good job for their country? Maybe they just want to do things their own way? A lot of maybe's do you live in scotland are you scotish by any chance? as i was asking someone who does .Have you ever thought that you could be part of the problem someone living in England answering for someone in Scotland.

No I’m not Scottish but I do have connections with Scotland. I feel it’s a complete different country than England and in past ten years both countries couldn’t be further apart. Scotland is a left wing country for a start and it has always been England isn’t and has got further right wing with a populist gvt.

I know quite a few Scots who voted against at independence in 2014 but who are completely pro independence now.

Where do you start with how different Scotland is? You could honestly write a novel about it. The list is endless in my opinion. Politically, culturally, socially etc.. these two countries or nations to be exact are miles apart! Well why are you trying to drown out the ladies voice? personally i would rather hear from someone who lives there and to understand what her actual grievance is rather than some left wing Englishman who seems to know everything.

Oh the gender card....Clutching at straws I see. No straws to clutch let the scots speak for themselves bob as i said before maybe you and people like you are part of the problem drowning out the people of Scotland. lets hear what they have to say not some Englishman living in England and then maybe we will get some understanding of their grievances and how to fix them. "

Funny how binary your world seems to be. So, people are either Scottish or English for you? There’s a big world out there for you to discover for you Charlie.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"law and order is devolved. how exactly will No.10 be able to stop an advisory referendum?

And if the otherside refuse to take part?

Remember Catalonia?

Catalonia is akin to Liverpool wanting to break from the rest of England.

Completely different to a political union.

Scotland remains sovereign. Catalonia is not. "

I'd be up for that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I wonder what political regime the Scots would go for and if they’d retain the monarchy. Republic?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 30/01/21 10:09:23]

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Consider there are derogatory threads in here every other day about nicola sturgeon..the concept of 'let them speak for themselves 'is jaw dropping in its hypocrisy.

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By *ering SeaMan
over a year ago

Penicuik


"I wonder what political regime the Scots would go for and if they’d retain the monarchy. Republic?"

The reason tories, Labour, dems are obliterated in Scotland is because they won’t endorse and independent scotland.

The above parties are London registered.

In a indy scotland the snp would cease to exist in its current form and a massive void would then allow a more broad church.

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By *ering SeaMan
over a year ago

Penicuik


"law and order is devolved. how exactly will No.10 be able to stop an advisory referendum?

And if the otherside refuse to take part?

Remember Catalonia?

Catalonia is akin to Liverpool wanting to break from the rest of England.

Completely different to a political union.

Scotland remains sovereign. Catalonia is not.

I'd be up for that."

Scouse not English a work colleague told me when having some friendly north south divide banter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Reading the comments I see no attempt to understand the issue, indeed I see personal distaste at the thought that a country member may wish to leave a union the majority want no part of.

It’s not about how English perceive grievances, it’s about Scotland being a different country with different political choices, different laws, different education, different social cares, different histories, different mindsets etc, wanting to govern itself. It’s not about England vs Scotland and Edward the first, it’s about Scotland’s pride in itself, its internal and external vision, its people- something I don’t see anywhere else in the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Reading the comments I see no attempt to understand the issue, indeed I see personal distaste at the thought that a country member may wish to leave a union the majority want no part of.

It’s not about how English perceive grievances, it’s about Scotland being a different country with different political choices, different laws, different education, different social cares, different histories, different mindsets etc, wanting to govern itself. It’s not about England vs Scotland and Edward the first, it’s about Scotland’s pride in itself, its internal and external vision, its people- something I don’t see anywhere else in the UK."

My experience of Scotland confirms this. I entirely concur. Both countries are really different.

I would also add that despite being a much smaller country, it is much more outlooking than England, hence their stronger link with their European friends. And by friends, I think they mean friends not like Boris who uses the words European friends maliciously.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"I wonder what political regime the Scots would go for and if they’d retain the monarchy. Republic?

The reason tories, Labour, dems are obliterated in Scotland is because they won’t endorse and independent scotland.

The above parties are London registered.

In a indy scotland the snp would cease to exist in its current form and a massive void would then allow a more broad church. "

The rise of the SNP is undoubtedly due to Westminster governments ceding more power to the nation.

The situation now in Scotland, where the judiciary and party in government are so closely bound, is a dangerous and toxic combination.

An independent Scotland would not leave a political void for a broad church of views to emerge, it would only encourage the already mafia styled leaders to tighten their grip.

I am hoping the old saying “ Give 'em enough rope, and they'll hang themselves." is going to metaphorically happen very soon.

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr


"After being told that Scotland would be refused admittance to the euro, and possibly the EU, what options would be available to go it alone as a sovereign nation?

I don't know how accurate this is. But if Scotland can't rejoin the EU, then voting for independence is insanity. "

So, we would be unable to do something New Zealand can do? We have a similar sized population, economy and resources - and we're a lot closer to Europe than they are to China or the USA, two other large markets.

What is it about Scotland that makes us uniquely incapable of surviving outside of the UK - or the EU?

The notion that, if we were to become an independent country, we would immediately become a failed state is just nonsense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just in this very thread confirms that ppl are discussing and making decisions for the ppl of Scotland.... Scotland has voted consecutively for its own government. Tories labour etc are dead in Scotland SNP are the only party viable beause they listen to the voters. Ppl saying Scotland can’t survive on their own only spurs it on even more. This poor wee helpless country have no contribution to the uk WHY do they want to hold on to us so much. Everything in Scotland is different. I’m not a nationalist in the EDL sense full of nazi homophobic xenophobic racist idiots. Just want Scotland to go it’s own way. I have an English mother and Scottish father before the hate English card is thrown.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 30/01/21 10:38:01]

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"After being told that Scotland would be refused admittance to the euro, and possibly the EU, what options would be available to go it alone as a sovereign nation?

I don't know how accurate this is. But if Scotland can't rejoin the EU, then voting for independence is insanity.

So, we would be unable to do something New Zealand can do? We have a similar sized population, economy and resources - and we're a lot closer to Europe than they are to China or the USA, two other large markets.

What is it about Scotland that makes us uniquely incapable of surviving outside of the UK - or the EU?

The notion that, if we were to become an independent country, we would immediately become a failed state is just nonsense."

With such close parallel with New Zealand maybe an independent Scotland might start playing rugby like the All Blacks

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By *ering SeaMan
over a year ago

Penicuik

[Removed by poster at 30/01/21 10:39:07]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think they’d just settle for playing football like Barcelona

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By *ering SeaMan
over a year ago

Penicuik

90% of UK’s total fresh water

34% of the UK’s natural wealth

26% of UK’s renewable energy generation and 90% of its hydro power.

32% of the UK’s land mass and 62% of its offshore maritime area.

96% of the UK’s crude oil and 63% natural gas production.

60% UK’s timber production

70% of the UK’s fish landings

25% of Europe’s offshore wind resources and 25% Europe’s tidal energy resources.

To put that figure into context with 8.4% of the UK population Scotland’s natural wealth represents 34% of the UK’s as a whole.

It’s also worth noting that these latest figures are for 2015 at the depth of the oil price collapse meaning the next set of figures will be significantly higher as prices have recovered and extraction costs reduced dramatically.

https://www.businessforscotland.com/scotland-is-one-of-the-worlds-most-naturally-wealthy-nations/

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I wonder what political regime the Scots would go for and if they’d retain the monarchy. Republic?

The reason tories, Labour, dems are obliterated in Scotland is because they won’t endorse and independent scotland.

The above parties are London registered.

In a indy scotland the snp would cease to exist in its current form and a massive void would then allow a more broad church.

The rise of the SNP is undoubtedly due to Westminster governments ceding more power to the nation.

The situation now in Scotland, where the judiciary and party in government are so closely bound, is a dangerous and toxic combination.

An independent Scotland would not leave a political void for a broad church of views to emerge, it would only encourage the already mafia styled leaders to tighten their grip.

I am hoping the old saying “ Give 'em enough rope, and they'll hang themselves." is going to metaphorically happen very soon."

I’m afraid your post shows a startling ignorance of facts and a distinct lack of knowledge about how Scotland works. Your first paragraph lacks political awareness and reinforces the idea of Westminster benevolence, something that does not exist.

In case that is not clear, devolution came about because of Scotland’s increasing desire to govern itself and the SNP supporters were a force behind it. Indeed, it is said devolution was only awarded as a means for the rising tide of desire for self government to fail and then, as appeasement. Scotland managed pretty well with the powers it was granted.

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

each mistep by the current government seems to increase the numbers calling for independence in the other celtic nations along with a desire for autonomy by several of the english regions.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"I wonder what political regime the Scots would go for and if they’d retain the monarchy. Republic?

The reason tories, Labour, dems are obliterated in Scotland is because they won’t endorse and independent scotland.

The above parties are London registered.

In a indy scotland the snp would cease to exist in its current form and a massive void would then allow a more broad church.

The rise of the SNP is undoubtedly due to Westminster governments ceding more power to the nation.

The situation now in Scotland, where the judiciary and party in government are so closely bound, is a dangerous and toxic combination.

An independent Scotland would not leave a political void for a broad church of views to emerge, it would only encourage the already mafia styled leaders to tighten their grip.

I am hoping the old saying “ Give 'em enough rope, and they'll hang themselves." is going to metaphorically happen very soon.

I’m afraid your post shows a startling ignorance of facts and a distinct lack of knowledge about how Scotland works. Your first paragraph lacks political awareness and reinforces the idea of Westminster benevolence, something that does not exist.

In case that is not clear, devolution came about because of Scotland’s increasing desire to govern itself and the SNP supporters were a force behind it. Indeed, it is said devolution was only awarded as a means for the rising tide of desire for self government to fail and then, as appeasement. Scotland managed pretty well with the powers it was granted.

"

And what have the SNP done with that devolved power. There are parts of the Scottish infrastructure that are steadily declining year on year under the SNP administration.

The notion that an independent Scotland under the SNP would allow the country to fulfill its potential is nonsense - there's nothing stopping them from doing it now.

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By *ering SeaMan
over a year ago

Penicuik


"The rise of the SNP is undoubtedly due to Westminster governments ceding more power to the nation."

Quite the opposite. The mantra in 2014 for remaining in the union was continued EU membership and near federalism.

Those who voted yes never believed a word of it and those who voted NO were lied to.

Project fear of too wee too poor will be in full swing again soon enough.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral


"each mistep by the current government seems to increase the numbers calling for independence in the other celtic nations along with a desire for autonomy by several of the English regions. "
Reason is simple Sturgeon brainwashes them into believing everything is the fault of Westminster,she is good like all evil would be dictators

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By *ering SeaMan
over a year ago

Penicuik


"I wonder what political regime the Scots would go for and if they’d retain the monarchy. Republic?

The reason tories, Labour, dems are obliterated in Scotland is because they won’t endorse and independent scotland.

The above parties are London registered.

In a indy scotland the snp would cease to exist in its current form and a massive void would then allow a more broad church.

The rise of the SNP is undoubtedly due to Westminster governments ceding more power to the nation.

The situation now in Scotland, where the judiciary and party in government are so closely bound, is a dangerous and toxic combination.

An independent Scotland would not leave a political void for a broad church of views to emerge, it would only encourage the already mafia styled leaders to tighten their grip.

I am hoping the old saying “ Give 'em enough rope, and they'll hang themselves." is going to metaphorically happen very soon.

I’m afraid your post shows a startling ignorance of facts and a distinct lack of knowledge about how Scotland works. Your first paragraph lacks political awareness and reinforces the idea of Westminster benevolence, something that does not exist.

In case that is not clear, devolution came about because of Scotland’s increasing desire to govern itself and the SNP supporters were a force behind it. Indeed, it is said devolution was only awarded as a means for the rising tide of desire for self government to fail and then, as appeasement. Scotland managed pretty well with the powers it was granted.

And what have the SNP done with that devolved power. There are parts of the Scottish infrastructure that are steadily declining year on year under the SNP administration.

The notion that an independent Scotland under the SNP would allow the country to fulfill its potential is nonsense - there's nothing stopping them from doing it now.

"

Have a look at what’s devolved and what’s reserved. Those who hold the purse strings control.

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney


"Reason is simple Sturgeon brainwashes them into believing everything is the fault of Westminster,she is good like all evil would be dictators"

that statement appears to be based on quoting pureile cynicism.

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"it seems that remebering catalonia is irrelevant. britain has no guardia civil to over-ride the scottish police. how exactly will No.10 stop an advisory referendum?"

There is not now or has been for a long time anything to stop an advisory referendum. They would have to fund it themselves but that's doable. A problem could be its not legally enforceable due to its very nature. If only one side takes part it is also not so valid. Basically it would not be recognized internationally. If it was as easy as just having their own vote without going through the process I think they would have done it long ago

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

an advisory referendum needs only return a majority of yes votes from the entire voting population to render a boycott irrelevant.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"law and order is devolved. how exactly will No.10 be able to stop an advisory referendum?

And if the otherside refuse to take part?

Remember Catalonia?

Catalonia is akin to Liverpool wanting to break from the rest of England.

Completely different to a political union.

Scotland remains sovereign. Catalonia is not.

I'd be up for that.

Scouse not English a work colleague told me when having some friendly north south divide banter "

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"an advisory referendum needs only return a majority of yes votes from the entire voting population to render a boycott irrelevant. "

It has to be seen as a relevant vote to hold any weight at all. As said they can go ahead and hold an advisory one and win it. If both sides take full part then it could be useful to apply political pressure to hold a proper vote. Apart from this what will it achieve

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

again, if 50.0001% of the total electorate vote yes to independence it matters not a jot wether any no voters turn out at all. the mandate will stand.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"each mistep by the current government seems to increase the numbers calling for independence in the other celtic nations along with a desire for autonomy by several of the English regions. Reason is simple Sturgeon brainwashes them into believing everything is the fault of Westminster,she is good like all evil would be dictators"

Another gem

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"it seems that remebering catalonia is irrelevant. britain has no guardia civil to over-ride the scottish police. how exactly will No.10 stop an advisory referendum?

There is not now or has been for a long time anything to stop an advisory referendum. They would have to fund it themselves but that's doable. A problem could be its not legally enforceable due to its very nature. If only one side takes part it is also not so valid. Basically it would not be recognized internationally. If it was as easy as just having their own vote without going through the process I think they would have done it long ago"

Wasnt Brexit advisory?

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"again, if 50.0001% of the total electorate vote yes to independence it matters not a jot wether any no voters turn out at all. the mandate will stand."

I understand what your saying and have said there is nothing stopping them doing this. There has not been anything stopping it for years. Why have they not done it? What will it achieve

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"it seems that remebering catalonia is irrelevant. britain has no guardia civil to over-ride the scottish police. how exactly will No.10 stop an advisory referendum?

There is not now or has been for a long time anything to stop an advisory referendum. They would have to fund it themselves but that's doable. A problem could be its not legally enforceable due to its very nature. If only one side takes part it is also not so valid. Basically it would not be recognized internationally. If it was as easy as just having their own vote without going through the process I think they would have done it long ago

Wasnt Brexit advisory?"

Yes indeed it was hence why it had to go through parliament afterwards

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

numbers.

pressure on westminster to respect democracy.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"The rise of the SNP is undoubtedly due to Westminster governments ceding more power to the nation.

Quite the opposite. The mantra in 2014 for remaining in the union was continued EU membership and near federalism.

Those who voted yes never believed a word of it and those who voted NO were lied to.

Project fear of too wee too poor will be in full swing again soon enough. "

I don't think project fear of too wee needs to do very much to highlight the danger of being part of the eu The response and actions of the EU in the past 24 hours wont have gone unnoticed by even the most ardent europhile in Scotland.

Has sturgeon said anything about this yet ?

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"numbers.

pressure on westminster to respect democracy."

Exactly what I said above. It can be used for political pressure. It is not in itself gaining independence

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By *ering SeaMan
over a year ago

Penicuik


"The rise of the SNP is undoubtedly due to Westminster governments ceding more power to the nation.

Quite the opposite. The mantra in 2014 for remaining in the union was continued EU membership and near federalism.

Those who voted yes never believed a word of it and those who voted NO were lied to.

Project fear of too wee too poor will be in full swing again soon enough.

I don't think project fear of too wee needs to do very much to highlight the danger of being part of the eu The response and actions of the EU in the past 24 hours wont have gone unnoticed by even the most ardent europhile in Scotland.

Has sturgeon said anything about this yet ?"

Not every Independence supporter voted to remain in EU

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney

not every non-snp voter is against independence, but i would argue that very few if any snp voters are against independence.

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By *hestyDrawWoman
over a year ago

Here and There


"Thank goodness a lot of you don’t live in Scotland, sheesh and ppl wonder why we want independence. All the things Iv read about, ill informed nasty comments these kind of post always bring out

Some people still think England gets to tell the world what to do."

Britain.

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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago

near ipswich


"After being told that Scotland would be refused admittance to the euro, and possibly the EU, what options would be available to go it alone as a sovereign nation?

I don't know how accurate this is. But if Scotland can't rejoin the EU, then voting for independence is insanity.

So, we would be unable to do something New Zealand can do? We have a similar sized population, economy and resources - and we're a lot closer to Europe than they are to China or the USA, two other large markets.

What is it about Scotland that makes us uniquely incapable of surviving outside of the UK - or the EU?

The notion that, if we were to become an independent country, we would immediately become a failed state is just nonsense.

With such close parallel with New Zealand maybe an independent Scotland might start playing rugby like the All Blacks "
talking of which im looking forward to the game next week,you should be playing more like the wallabies the amount of ozzies you have

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"I wonder what political regime the Scots would go for and if they’d retain the monarchy. Republic?

The reason tories, Labour, dems are obliterated in Scotland is because they won’t endorse and independent scotland.

The above parties are London registered.

In a indy scotland the snp would cease to exist in its current form and a massive void would then allow a more broad church.

The rise of the SNP is undoubtedly due to Westminster governments ceding more power to the nation.

The situation now in Scotland, where the judiciary and party in government are so closely bound, is a dangerous and toxic combination.

An independent Scotland would not leave a political void for a broad church of views to emerge, it would only encourage the already mafia styled leaders to tighten their grip.

I am hoping the old saying “ Give 'em enough rope, and they'll hang themselves." is going to metaphorically happen very soon.

I’m afraid your post shows a startling ignorance of facts and a distinct lack of knowledge about how Scotland works. Your first paragraph lacks political awareness and reinforces the idea of Westminster benevolence, something that does not exist.

In case that is not clear, devolution came about because of Scotland’s increasing desire to govern itself and the SNP supporters were a force behind it. Indeed, it is said devolution was only awarded as a means for the rising tide of desire for self government to fail and then, as appeasement. Scotland managed pretty well with the powers it was granted.

And what have the SNP done with that devolved power. There are parts of the Scottish infrastructure that are steadily declining year on year under the SNP administration.

The notion that an independent Scotland under the SNP would allow the country to fulfill its potential is nonsense - there's nothing stopping them from doing it now.

Have a look at what’s devolved and what’s reserved. Those who hold the purse strings control. "

Ah, the idea that they are making a mess of the devolved parts because they don't have full control of the other parts.

This isn't down to purse strings - its competency and priorities

A once envied education system is a shadow of its former self, and this has been allowed to get worse and worse under successive SNP administrations.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"After being told that Scotland would be refused admittance to the euro, and possibly the EU, what options would be available to go it alone as a sovereign nation?

I don't know how accurate this is. But if Scotland can't rejoin the EU, then voting for independence is insanity.

So, we would be unable to do something New Zealand can do? We have a similar sized population, economy and resources - and we're a lot closer to Europe than they are to China or the USA, two other large markets.

What is it about Scotland that makes us uniquely incapable of surviving outside of the UK - or the EU?

The notion that, if we were to become an independent country, we would immediately become a failed state is just nonsense.

With such close parallel with New Zealand maybe an independent Scotland might start playing rugby like the All Blacks talking of which im looking forward to the game next week,you should be playing more like the wallabies the amount of ozzies you have "

I will start the 6N thread in the lounge at some point if it's not already there

Glad toonie was able to steal redpath from under uncle eddies nose (it's only.right he did so, he is after all from good Scottish stock )

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Reading the comments I see no attempt to understand the issue, indeed I see personal distaste at the thought that a country member may wish to leave a union the majority want no part of.

It’s not about how English perceive grievances, it’s about Scotland being a different country with different political choices, different laws, different education, different social cares, different histories, different mindsets etc, wanting to govern itself. It’s not about England vs Scotland and Edward the first, it’s about Scotland’s pride in itself, its internal and external vision, its people- something I don’t see anywhere else in the UK."

So how come the Scottish voted to remain in the UK?

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee


"again, if 50.0001% of the total electorate vote yes to independence it matters not a jot wether any no voters turn out at all. the mandate will stand.

I understand what your saying and have said there is nothing stopping them doing this. There has not been anything stopping it for years. Why have they not done it? What will it achieve"

Firstly - Its important to make the distinction here between advisory and binding referendums. The SNP did not have a commitment to hold an advisory referendum in their manifesto in 2016.

They *did* seek to hold a legally binding one - and duly applied for a section 30 order in 2019 - which was rejected.

This time round their manifesto will include a proviso to hold an advisory one if the section 30 application is rejected again.

I'm sure you'll agree that it is a vital first step in holding a referendum.

Secondly - Advisory referendums *do* carry weight. The Brexit referendum is proof of that. How will it play do you think if the UK government rejects the results of an advisory referendum in Scotland, when an advisory referendum which was carried by England resulted in us leaving Europe?

That being said. Personally I think it's a mistake - it allows Johnson to play for time. The most important thing as far as the Tories are concerned is that Scottish independence does not happen on their watch. They are undoubtedly set to lose the next UK election and leave Labour holding the bag on this one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Reading the comments I see no attempt to understand the issue, indeed I see personal distaste at the thought that a country member may wish to leave a union the majority want no part of.

It’s not about how English perceive grievances, it’s about Scotland being a different country with different political choices, different laws, different education, different social cares, different histories, different mindsets etc, wanting to govern itself. It’s not about England vs Scotland and Edward the first, it’s about Scotland’s pride in itself, its internal and external vision, its people- something I don’t see anywhere else in the UK.

So how come the Scottish voted to remain in the UK? "

Sometimes the project fear wins.

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth


"Reading the comments I see no attempt to understand the issue, indeed I see personal distaste at the thought that a country member may wish to leave a union the majority want no part of.

It’s not about how English perceive grievances, it’s about Scotland being a different country with different political choices, different laws, different education, different social cares, different histories, different mindsets etc, wanting to govern itself. It’s not about England vs Scotland and Edward the first, it’s about Scotland’s pride in itself, its internal and external vision, its people- something I don’t see anywhere else in the UK."

Which is of course why you voted leave in 2016, couldnt have put it better myself.

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"I wonder how many people in England know that Scotland already has its own judiciary and education systems which are completely different from what we have in England.

"

I think quite a few do really

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Reading the comments I see no attempt to understand the issue, indeed I see personal distaste at the thought that a country member may wish to leave a union the majority want no part of.

It’s not about how English perceive grievances, it’s about Scotland being a different country with different political choices, different laws, different education, different social cares, different histories, different mindsets etc, wanting to govern itself. It’s not about England vs Scotland and Edward the first, it’s about Scotland’s pride in itself, its internal and external vision, its people- something I don’t see anywhere else in the UK.

Which is of course why you voted leave in 2016, couldnt have put it better myself."

No, I’m not Scottish and wasn’t resident in the country so had no vote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Reading the comments I see no attempt to understand the issue, indeed I see personal distaste at the thought that a country member may wish to leave a union the majority want no part of.

It’s not about how English perceive grievances, it’s about Scotland being a different country with different political choices, different laws, different education, different social cares, different histories, different mindsets etc, wanting to govern itself. It’s not about England vs Scotland and Edward the first, it’s about Scotland’s pride in itself, its internal and external vision, its people- something I don’t see anywhere else in the UK.

Which is of course why you voted leave in 2016, couldnt have put it better myself.

No, I’m not Scottish and wasn’t resident in the country so had no vote.

"

Oh dear. That was 2014. I thought you knew all things Scottish. Didn't you vote leave in the EU referendum?

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By *ering SeaMan
over a year ago

Penicuik


"Reading the comments I see no attempt to understand the issue, indeed I see personal distaste at the thought that a country member may wish to leave a union the majority want no part of.

It’s not about how English perceive grievances, it’s about Scotland being a different country with different political choices, different laws, different education, different social cares, different histories, different mindsets etc, wanting to govern itself. It’s not about England vs Scotland and Edward the first, it’s about Scotland’s pride in itself, its internal and external vision, its people- something I don’t see anywhere else in the UK.

Which is of course why you voted leave in 2016, couldnt have put it better myself."

2016 ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Reading the comments I see no attempt to understand the issue, indeed I see personal distaste at the thought that a country member may wish to leave a union the majority want no part of.

It’s not about how English perceive grievances, it’s about Scotland being a different country with different political choices, different laws, different education, different social cares, different histories, different mindsets etc, wanting to govern itself. It’s not about England vs Scotland and Edward the first, it’s about Scotland’s pride in itself, its internal and external vision, its people- something I don’t see anywhere else in the UK.

Which is of course why you voted leave in 2016, couldnt have put it better myself.

2016 ? "

The lady put forward a good reason for leaving the EU

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"again, if 50.0001% of the total electorate vote yes to independence it matters not a jot wether any no voters turn out at all. the mandate will stand.

I understand what your saying and have said there is nothing stopping them doing this. There has not been anything stopping it for years. Why have they not done it? What will it achieve

Firstly - Its important to make the distinction here between advisory and binding referendums. The SNP did not have a commitment to hold an advisory referendum in their manifesto in 2016.

They *did* seek to hold a legally binding one - and duly applied for a section 30 order in 2019 - which was rejected.

This time round their manifesto will include a proviso to hold an advisory one if the section 30 application is rejected again.

I'm sure you'll agree that it is a vital first step in holding a referendum.

Secondly - Advisory referendums *do* carry weight. The Brexit referendum is proof of that. How will it play do you think if the UK government rejects the results of an advisory referendum in Scotland, when an advisory referendum which was carried by England resulted in us leaving Europe?

That being said. Personally I think it's a mistake - it allows Johnson to play for time. The most important thing as far as the Tories are concerned is that Scottish independence does not happen on their watch. They are undoubtedly set to lose the next UK election and leave Labour holding the bag on this one.

"

If you read back you will see I was responding to a question specifically on an advisory referendum. I also said it could be used as political pressure. In my opinion for it to hold any weight and therefore pressure it needs to have both sides participate fully.

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By *ealthy_and_HungMan
over a year ago

Princes Risborough, Luasanne, Alderney


" In my opinion for it to hold any weight and therefore pressure it needs to have both sides participate fully."

i disagree. 2,039,801 (based on latest electoral roll figures)yes votes will render no votes utterly irrelevant and so deliberate non-participation runs a huge risk. the snp know this and it's the reason for placing the referendum on their manifesto.

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee


"again, if 50.0001% of the total electorate vote yes to independence it matters not a jot wether any no voters turn out at all. the mandate will stand.

I understand what your saying and have said there is nothing stopping them doing this. There has not been anything stopping it for years. Why have they not done it? What will it achieve

Firstly - Its important to make the distinction here between advisory and binding referendums. The SNP did not have a commitment to hold an advisory referendum in their manifesto in 2016.

They *did* seek to hold a legally binding one - and duly applied for a section 30 order in 2019 - which was rejected.

This time round their manifesto will include a proviso to hold an advisory one if the section 30 application is rejected again.

I'm sure you'll agree that it is a vital first step in holding a referendum.

Secondly - Advisory referendums *do* carry weight. The Brexit referendum is proof of that. How will it play do you think if the UK government rejects the results of an advisory referendum in Scotland, when an advisory referendum which was carried by England resulted in us leaving Europe?

That being said. Personally I think it's a mistake - it allows Johnson to play for time. The most important thing as far as the Tories are concerned is that Scottish independence does not happen on their watch. They are undoubtedly set to lose the next UK election and leave Labour holding the bag on this one.

If you read back you will see I was responding to a question specifically on an advisory referendum. I also said it could be used as political pressure. In my opinion for it to hold any weight and therefore pressure it needs to have both sides participate fully."

Sure thats one way to look at it. The other way is that if the Unionist side does not participate, then they clearly don't have the confidence to win.

Feart is a word I might hesitate to use. But there's many that don't the same sense of manners.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Has Scotland been given assurance from the EU that they can join?

If not then what next?..

Forgive my ignorance here btw

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


" In my opinion for it to hold any weight and therefore pressure it needs to have both sides participate fully.

i disagree. 2,039,801 (based on latest electoral roll figures)yes votes will render no votes utterly irrelevant and so deliberate non-participation runs a huge risk. the snp know this and it's the reason for placing the referendum on their manifesto."

Hence why I said in my opinion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Reading the comments I see no attempt to understand the issue, indeed I see personal distaste at the thought that a country member may wish to leave a union the majority want no part of.

It’s not about how English perceive grievances, it’s about Scotland being a different country with different political choices, different laws, different education, different social cares, different histories, different mindsets etc, wanting to govern itself. It’s not about England vs Scotland and Edward the first, it’s about Scotland’s pride in itself, its internal and external vision, its people- something I don’t see anywhere else in the UK.

Which is of course why you voted leave in 2016, couldnt have put it better myself.

No, I’m not Scottish and wasn’t resident in the country so had no vote.

Oh dear. That was 2014. I thought you knew all things Scottish. Didn't you vote leave in the EU referendum? "

I’m still not Scottish and I still didn’t vote leave as I wasn’t resident in the country. Simple- what’s the problem? For reference, I had no vote in either

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"again, if 50.0001% of the total electorate vote yes to independence it matters not a jot wether any no voters turn out at all. the mandate will stand.

I understand what your saying and have said there is nothing stopping them doing this. There has not been anything stopping it for years. Why have they not done it? What will it achieve

Firstly - Its important to make the distinction here between advisory and binding referendums. The SNP did not have a commitment to hold an advisory referendum in their manifesto in 2016.

They *did* seek to hold a legally binding one - and duly applied for a section 30 order in 2019 - which was rejected.

This time round their manifesto will include a proviso to hold an advisory one if the section 30 application is rejected again.

I'm sure you'll agree that it is a vital first step in holding a referendum.

Secondly - Advisory referendums *do* carry weight. The Brexit referendum is proof of that. How will it play do you think if the UK government rejects the results of an advisory referendum in Scotland, when an advisory referendum which was carried by England resulted in us leaving Europe?

That being said. Personally I think it's a mistake - it allows Johnson to play for time. The most important thing as far as the Tories are concerned is that Scottish independence does not happen on their watch. They are undoubtedly set to lose the next UK election and leave Labour holding the bag on this one.

If you read back you will see I was responding to a question specifically on an advisory referendum. I also said it could be used as political pressure. In my opinion for it to hold any weight and therefore pressure it needs to have both sides participate fully.

Sure thats one way to look at it. The other way is that if the Unionist side does not participate, then they clearly don't have the confidence to win.

Feart is a word I might hesitate to use. But there's many that don't the same sense of manners."

Personally I would like to see them given the section 30 order and have a proper referendum to determine the future. My worry is the other routes lead to a messy outcome and could put back their cause especially if they do not get international recognition

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee


"Has Scotland been given assurance from the EU that they can join?

If not then what next?..

Forgive my ignorance here btw

"

No - and I wouldn't expect them to.

Although the same constraints that forbade them from interfering in the internal dealings of a member state no longer apply. I doubt they would wish to strain relations further by making comment now.

But then again, I could be wrong about that. Anyone who tells you categorically what the EU will and won't do is lying.

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee


"again, if 50.0001% of the total electorate vote yes to independence it matters not a jot wether any no voters turn out at all. the mandate will stand.

I understand what your saying and have said there is nothing stopping them doing this. There has not been anything stopping it for years. Why have they not done it? What will it achieve

Firstly - Its important to make the distinction here between advisory and binding referendums. The SNP did not have a commitment to hold an advisory referendum in their manifesto in 2016.

They *did* seek to hold a legally binding one - and duly applied for a section 30 order in 2019 - which was rejected.

This time round their manifesto will include a proviso to hold an advisory one if the section 30 application is rejected again.

I'm sure you'll agree that it is a vital first step in holding a referendum.

Secondly - Advisory referendums *do* carry weight. The Brexit referendum is proof of that. How will it play do you think if the UK government rejects the results of an advisory referendum in Scotland, when an advisory referendum which was carried by England resulted in us leaving Europe?

That being said. Personally I think it's a mistake - it allows Johnson to play for time. The most important thing as far as the Tories are concerned is that Scottish independence does not happen on their watch. They are undoubtedly set to lose the next UK election and leave Labour holding the bag on this one.

If you read back you will see I was responding to a question specifically on an advisory referendum. I also said it could be used as political pressure. In my opinion for it to hold any weight and therefore pressure it needs to have both sides participate fully.

Sure thats one way to look at it. The other way is that if the Unionist side does not participate, then they clearly don't have the confidence to win.

Feart is a word I might hesitate to use. But there's many that don't the same sense of manners.

Personally I would like to see them given the section 30 order and have a proper referendum to determine the future. My worry is the other routes lead to a messy outcome and could put back their cause especially if they do not get international recognition"

I agree. Although I don't think it will set things back - I doubt it will significantly further things either.

And additionally - it may allow the Tories to wriggle out of responsibility for it, which is an important consideration in my opinion.

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes


"Has Scotland been given assurance from the EU that they can join?

If not then what next?..

Forgive my ignorance here btw

No - and I wouldn't expect them to.

Although the same constraints that forbade them from interfering in the internal dealings of a member state no longer apply. I doubt they would wish to strain relations further by making comment now.

But then again, I could be wrong about that. Anyone who tells you categorically what the EU will and won't do is lying."

So true, the last 24 hours have proved that beyond any doubt

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By *atEvolutionCouple
over a year ago

atlantisEVOLUTION. Stoke FREE ENTRANCE ALL WEEKEND

Scotland has many problems joining the EU.

It has to apply for Membership in the usual way under Article 49 TEU.

The EU has already said that there cannot be a 'special route' such as 'EU Enlargement'

It would have to show it's true Independence as a Country.

It would have to show sound taxation policy.

Only 18% of Scots say that they would accept up the Single Currency - getting that through the Scottish Parliament will be a big ask if that remains.

Then there is Fisheries Quota's - Getting that past the Scottish Fishing Industry would take quite some time.

It would have to re-legislate any divergence of Scottish and EU Law (some think that this alone would take more than 10 years). The government of Scotland would probably seek a special arrangement on the Schengen Area in order to maintain the Common Travel Area between Ireland, Scotland and UK. In the post-Brexit context, it is difficult to imagine the EU granting a treaty-level opt-out, but perhaps a model of deferred participation could be agreed.

It would have to show it was a 'free market' economy over several years.

It would have to 'demonstrate' (not show) that the Institutions of Scotland can carry out and form proper function with regard to administration both in Scotland and in Europe.

It would have to show sound Fiscal Policy over a period of time. LSE maintain this to be at least 5 years.

The 'Spanish Question' still has no clear answer.

That is not to say that it can not be done. But there is a long time and a lot of work before it is.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"Scotland has many problems joining the EU.

It has to apply for Membership in the usual way under Article 49 TEU.

The EU has already said that there cannot be a 'special route' such as 'EU Enlargement'

It would have to show it's true Independence as a Country.

It would have to show sound taxation policy.

Only 18% of Scots say that they would accept up the Single Currency - getting that through the Scottish Parliament will be a big ask if that remains.

Then there is Fisheries Quota's - Getting that past the Scottish Fishing Industry would take quite some time.

It would have to re-legislate any divergence of Scottish and EU Law (some think that this alone would take more than 10 years). The government of Scotland would probably seek a special arrangement on the Schengen Area in order to maintain the Common Travel Area between Ireland, Scotland and UK. In the post-Brexit context, it is difficult to imagine the EU granting a treaty-level opt-out, but perhaps a model of deferred participation could be agreed.

It would have to show it was a 'free market' economy over several years.

It would have to 'demonstrate' (not show) that the Institutions of Scotland can carry out and form proper function with regard to administration both in Scotland and in Europe.

It would have to show sound Fiscal Policy over a period of time. LSE maintain this to be at least 5 years.

The 'Spanish Question' still has no clear answer.

That is not to say that it can not be done. But there is a long time and a lot of work before it is.

"

... and in the meantime try to limit the damage the incumbent administration are doing to the nation .

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By *amish SMan
over a year ago

Eastleigh

I really don't see the issue that Westminster has with a breakaway, they have their own government with limited juristriction, laws, income tax control to a point.

Having worked on and off in Faslane for 7 years, I think that both Scotland and Westminster could show the EU how a split should be done. Breakaway, and have an opt in clause after 5 or 7 years if needed.

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By *lutforgirlsWoman
over a year ago

sutton-in-asgfield

They would last about an hour before going into bankruptcy

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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago

milton keynes


"After being told that Scotland would be refused admittance to the euro, and possibly the EU, what options would be available to go it alone as a sovereign nation? "

I if they vote to leave it should be respected. None of this you didn't know what you were voting for stuff just honour the will of the people. As to if they can make it alone, well they have no choice but to make it work

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just like people said we cannot drag the UK to the middle of the atlantic, scotland cannot drag itself off the coast france.

Scotland is as much a part of the UK as every other nation.

Both English nationalists and Scottish Nationalists, better realise its not about them.

This nation thrived as one united kingdom. Not as separate states.

We must get rid of this childish notion that we are better off without each other.

The UK needs good scottish no nonsense straight talk, or we will never survive as an island nation, more so than ever.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"Just like people said we cannot drag the UK to the middle of the atlantic, scotland cannot drag itself off the coast france.

Scotland is as much a part of the UK as every other nation.

Both English nationalists and Scottish Nationalists, better realise its not about them.

This nation thrived as one united kingdom. Not as separate states.

We must get rid of this childish notion that we are better off without each other.

The UK needs good scottish no nonsense straight talk, or we will never survive as an island nation, more so than ever. "

This

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Interesting opinion but one that does not represent history or facts, in all reality.

There is no other country in the world that is made up of three countries and a contested bit of another, the population of Wales and Scotland not choosing that course. Democracy has now intervened but force is still a tactic to keep a union many don’t want.

Dictating terms to other countries is not very 2021 now, is it? The bigger country dictates to the smaller ones? Scotland has been a country for longer than England or Wales and has grown away from the England-based ideal of all for one and one for one. It’s up to the Scottish people to decide what their future will be so let’s let them and see. Good luck to them.

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By *kstallionMan
over a year ago

milton keynes

Why on earth did Scotland decide to join with England in the first place and allow themselves to be governed from Westminster

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS
over a year ago

Dundee


"Why on earth did Scotland decide to join with England in the first place and allow themselves to be governed from Westminster"

Two reasons - which coincidentally are the same two causes of pretty much every ill that plagues the UK.

1. Debt

2. Nobility

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree and I’d add greed and bribery.

‘Bought and sold for English gold -

Sic a parcel of rogues in a nation.’

Probably one of the reasons for Scotland’s socialist heart.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

The Robert Burns quote, “ We're bought and sold for English Gold, Such a Parcel of Rogues in a Nation." certainly better used than use of his “ Wee, sleekit, cowrin, tim'rous beastie,

O, what a pannic's in thy breastie!”

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You are obviously unaware that the quote is from a poem about how the union came about.

England bribed the Scottish nobles who’d lost a packet of money of a ill fated scheme of empire building which, it has to be pointed out, the crown’s English pirates made certain of its failure. The nobles signed up, got their money back and the people hated them for it. Hence the poem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why on earth did Scotland decide to join with England in the first place and allow themselves to be governed from Westminster"

I’m surprised that you haven’t learnt this in school to be honest but making History optional after year 9 means that people aren’t taught very basic things about their own country was born. And the same people have entrenched opinions on the union, Brexit etc...

Apologies, if this comes across as personal. It’s not meant to be. There are so many people who don’t know about this.

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By *kstallionMan
over a year ago

milton keynes


"Why on earth did Scotland decide to join with England in the first place and allow themselves to be governed from Westminster

I’m surprised that you haven’t learnt this in school to be honest but making History optional after year 9 means that people aren’t taught very basic things about their own country was born. And the same people have entrenched opinions on the union, Brexit etc...

Apologies, if this comes across as personal. It’s not meant to be. There are so many people who don’t know about this. "

I certainly don't recall it being taught in my school days but they were quite a while back and predates these new rules

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"You are obviously unaware that the quote is from a poem about how the union came about.

England bribed the Scottish nobles who’d lost a packet of money of a ill fated scheme of empire building which, it has to be pointed out, the crown’s English pirates made certain of its failure. The nobles signed up, got their money back and the people hated them for it. Hence the poem."

aware enough to know who wrote it and why, and why I provided the name of it's author - happy to help

yes as you say from the folk song ! big fan of The Corries, 1989 The best of cd, track 6

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I really hope Scotland achieves independence and that we won't be too far behind

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol


"I really hope Scotland achieves independence and that we won't be too far behind "

So Wales can afford to go it alone ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"You are obviously unaware that the quote is from a poem about how the union came about.

England bribed the Scottish nobles who’d lost a packet of money of a ill fated scheme of empire building which, it has to be pointed out, the crown’s English pirates made certain of its failure. The nobles signed up, got their money back and the people hated them for it. Hence the poem.

aware enough to know who wrote it and why, and why I provided the name of it's author - happy to help

yes as you say from the folk song ! big fan of The Corries, 1989 The best of cd, track 6 "

You have no idea how many levels you’re wrong on #shakes head, laughs and moves on#

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By *illi3736Woman
over a year ago

Glasgow

Scotland would survive easily enough as an independent nation....But would it thrive ?....That would take many many decades to know.....Undoubtedly the first few years would be very very fraught with plunging revenues and massive debt to service...all with an ageing popoulation as well

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"You are obviously unaware that the quote is from a poem about how the union came about.

England bribed the Scottish nobles who’d lost a packet of money of a ill fated scheme of empire building which, it has to be pointed out, the crown’s English pirates made certain of its failure. The nobles signed up, got their money back and the people hated them for it. Hence the poem.

aware enough to know who wrote it and why, and why I provided the name of it's author - happy to help

yes as you say from the folk song ! big fan of The Corries, 1989 The best of cd, track 6

You have no idea how many levels you’re wrong on #shakes head, laughs and moves on#"

Fareweel to a' our Scottish fame,

Fareweel our ancient glory;

Fareweel ev'n to the Scottish name,

Sae fam'd in martial story.

Now Sark rins over Solway sands,

An' T rins to the ocean,

To mark where England's province stands-

Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

What force or guile could not subdue,

Thro' many warlike ages,

Is wrought now by a coward few,

For hireling traitor's wages.

The English stell we could disdain,

Secure in valour's station;

But English gold has been our bane-

Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

O would, or I had seen the day

That Treason thus could sell us,

My auld grey head had lien in clay,

Wi' Bruce and loyal Wallace!

But pith and power, till my last hour,

I'll mak this declaration;

We're bought and sold for English gold-

Such a parcel of rogues in a nation!

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

Fab doesn't like certain parts of Scots poetry

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By *ethnmelvCouple
over a year ago

Cardiff

As we have seen from Brexit, just because you aren’t going to thrive is no reason not to vote for ridiculous seperation! Sadly this English Tory led foolishness is likely to lead to the breakup of Britain. I wanted to remain in Europe and I’d likeBritain to remain as one, but I can see why Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and parts of England might want to break away

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool


"Scotland would survive easily enough as an independent nation....But would it thrive ?....That would take many many decades to know.....Undoubtedly the first few years would be very very fraught with plunging revenues and massive debt to service...all with an ageing popoulation as well"

We will let you know how we get on in the next few year's

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


"Scotland would survive easily enough as an independent nation....But would it thrive ?....That would take many many decades to know.....Undoubtedly the first few years would be very very fraught with plunging revenues and massive debt to service...all with an ageing popoulation as well"

... and still with a chip on the shoulder that not even full independence can fill

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Fab doesn't like certain parts of Scots poetry "

Humour me and tell me what you think Burns’ words are about and your interpretation of why some parts of Fab don’t like them? I’m confused over your stance .

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

[Removed by poster at 31/01/21 17:13:41]

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here


" Fab doesn't like certain parts of Scots poetry

Humour me and tell me what you think Burns’ words are about and your interpretation of why some parts of Fab don’t like them? I’m confused over your stance . "

You tell me which line of the poem Fab dosn't like...its very obvious

Made me chuckle, but maybe you don't know it that well?

(it's nothing to do with friesians and coos)

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