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"The scots were in the unique position of being granted an actual vote for their independence Unlike every other nation seeking independence who had to go to war to drive the British out all they had to do was tick a box And they shit the course " The Scots are British  | |||
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"In the face of everything else going on in Scotland and the U.K., SNP conference priority is still independence referendum. “ conference agenda reveals everything that’s wrong with their priorities” "  | |||
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"I admit i haven't looked at or read anything about the SNP conference. But if they are still going to push forward with independence, let them. As long as they accept they have to repay every single penny that that the British taxpayer has had to borrow on their behalf for the next 50 or 70 years..............and repay it the moment they have independence." Historical Reparations Cool idea Where do the countries that were invaded and sucked dry by the British sign up? | |||
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"I admit i haven't looked at or read anything about the SNP conference. But if they are still going to push forward with independence, let them. As long as they accept they have to repay every single penny that that the British taxpayer has had to borrow on their behalf for the next 50 or 70 years..............and repay it the moment they have independence. Historical Reparations Cool idea Where do the countries that were invaded and sucked dry by the British sign up? " Imperialism is something to be proud of apparently | |||
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"SNP conference starting and they want a vote next year. Small majority of the public in favour apparently. I’m English. It’s perfectly clear that Scotland will go on having votes until the people give the right answer. I’m not the only English person bored to tears with the whole thing. Can’t they just crack on and do it? I’m Scottish and also bored with this, and just so you know, not everyone in Scotland wants independence. " | |||
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"And will the prosperous south of England repay the scots the countless billions that the Westminster government recieved for Scottish oil, When Britain was on its knees and on the verge of collapse economically, in the late 7os it was Scottish oil that came to its rescue, the Thatcher government took all the Scottish oil money and pumped (excuse the pun) it into the rich south east of England and north a penny into the industrial north or Scotland, so I think Westminster should be paying back an independent Scotland for the next 60 or 70 years " | |||
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"The scots were in the unique position of being granted an actual vote for their independence Unlike every other nation seeking independence who had to go to war to drive the British out all they had to do was tick a box And they shit the course The Scots are British "I'm Scottish never British | |||
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"And will the prosperous south of England repay the scots the countless billions that the Westminster government recieved for Scottish oil, When Britain was on its knees and on the verge of collapse economically, in the late 7os it was Scottish oil that came to its rescue, the Thatcher government took all the Scottish oil money and pumped (excuse the pun) it into the rich south east of England and north a penny into the industrial north or Scotland, so I think Westminster should be paying back an independent Scotland for the next 60 or 70 years " Really !? Countless billions ! You are deluded. Scotland would be a third world nation, the second the rest of Great Briton turned the money tap off. | |||
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"SNP conference starting and they want a vote next year. Small majority of the public in favour apparently. I’m English. It’s perfectly clear that Scotland will go on having votes until the people give the right answer. I’m not the only English person bored to tears with the whole thing. Can’t they just crack on and do it? " I think you will find that the last 10 to 12 polls have showed that 55/56% of Scots support independence | |||
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"And will the prosperous south of England repay the scots the countless billions that the Westminster government recieved for Scottish oil, When Britain was on its knees and on the verge of collapse economically, in the late 7os it was Scottish oil that came to its rescue, the Thatcher government took all the Scottish oil money and pumped (excuse the pun) it into the rich south east of England and north a penny into the industrial north or Scotland, so I think Westminster should be paying back an independent Scotland for the next 60 or 70 years Really !? Countless billions ! You are deluded. Scotland would be a third world nation, the second the rest of Great Briton turned the money tap off." Your deluded,scotland has been propping up the UK for years,and to the poster above you we will pay our dues of 8.4% and we will also claim 8.4%of all that the UK is worth | |||
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"SNP conference starting and they want a vote next year. Small majority of the public in favour apparently. I’m English. It’s perfectly clear that Scotland will go on having votes until the people give the right answer. I’m not the only English person bored to tears with the whole thing. Can’t they just crack on and do it? I think you will find that the last 10 to 12 polls have showed that 55/56% of Scots support independence " I heard that today, I’m not disputing it. That wasn’t what I was asking. I’m saying if you keep asking the question eventually it will happen. So you might as well just do it. | |||
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"And will the prosperous south of England repay the scots the countless billions that the Westminster government recieved for Scottish oil, When Britain was on its knees and on the verge of collapse economically, in the late 7os it was Scottish oil that came to its rescue, the Thatcher government took all the Scottish oil money and pumped (excuse the pun) it into the rich south east of England and north a penny into the industrial north or Scotland, so I think Westminster should be paying back an independent Scotland for the next 60 or 70 years Really !? Countless billions ! You are deluded. Scotland would be a third world nation, the second the rest of Great Briton turned the money tap off. Your deluded,scotland has been propping up the UK for years,and to the poster above you we will pay our dues of 8.4% and we will also claim 8.4%of all that the UK is worth " I think you are winding yourselfs up Scotland propping up Great Britain !! That’s crazy, there’s no economy bar tourism...there’s no infrastructure, this is on Scottish government site “ There are estimated to be 4.5 million adults in Scotland in 2019-20 and 2.5 million income tax payers. Around 2 million adults, or 44.6% of all Scottish adults, will not pay income tax as they will earn less than the Personal Allowance” 2.5 million people’s income tax which in turn is subsidising the other 2 million is not prosperity, its social and economic suicide....I suppose when the heating and the electricity goes they’ve always got bitterness and resentment to keep them warm  | |||
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"And will the prosperous south of England repay the scots the countless billions that the Westminster government recieved for Scottish oil, When Britain was on its knees and on the verge of collapse economically, in the late 7os it was Scottish oil that came to its rescue, the Thatcher government took all the Scottish oil money and pumped (excuse the pun) it into the rich south east of England and north a penny into the industrial north or Scotland, so I think Westminster should be paying back an independent Scotland for the next 60 or 70 years Really !? Countless billions ! You are deluded. Scotland would be a third world nation, the second the rest of Great Briton turned the money tap off. Your deluded,scotland has been propping up the UK for years,and to the poster above you we will pay our dues of 8.4% and we will also claim 8.4%of all that the UK is worth I think you are winding yourselfs up Scotland propping up Great Britain !! That’s crazy, there’s no economy bar tourism...there’s no infrastructure, this is on Scottish government site “ There are estimated to be 4.5 million adults in Scotland in 2019-20 and 2.5 million income tax payers. Around 2 million adults, or 44.6% of all Scottish adults, will not pay income tax as they will earn less than the Personal Allowance” 2.5 million people’s income tax which in turn is subsidising the other 2 million is not prosperity, its social and economic suicide....I suppose when the heating and the electricity goes they’ve always got bitterness and resentment to keep them warm "Further more, when the Scots finally get their “independence” they’ll get what they are given, Britain holds the whip hand  | |||
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"I admit i haven't looked at or read anything about the SNP conference. But if they are still going to push forward with independence, let them. As long as they accept they have to repay every single penny that that the British taxpayer has had to borrow on their behalf for the next 50 or 70 years..............and repay it the moment they have independence. Historical Reparations Cool idea Where do the countries that were invaded and sucked dry by the British sign up? Imperialism is something to be proud of apparently " Didn't the Scots decide to join up with the English when their own attempt at empire building ran out of money? | |||
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"The scots were in the unique position of being granted an actual vote for their independence Unlike every other nation seeking independence who had to go to war to drive the British out all they had to do was tick a box And they shit the course The Scots are British
I'm Scottish never British "What’s it say on your passport? | |||
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"The scots were in the unique position of being granted an actual vote for their independence Unlike every other nation seeking independence who had to go to war to drive the British out all they had to do was tick a box And they shit the course The Scots are British
I'm Scottish never British
What’s it say on your passport? "It probably says "Ruled by w*nkers" To quote Ewan McGregor In trainspotting ! | |||
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"SNP conference starting and they want a vote next year. Small majority of the public in favour apparently. I’m English. It’s perfectly clear that Scotland will go on having votes until the people give the right answer. I’m not the only English person bored to tears with the whole thing. Can’t they just crack on and do it? " They are happy to take money from the rest of the union to help there covid problems. If they pay us back all the exess money they have had then maybe consider it,Oh dear they have no money. To even consider this in the middle of the current crisis is totally immoral in my view | |||
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"I admit i haven't looked at or read anything about the SNP conference. But if they are still going to push forward with independence, let them. As long as they accept they have to repay every single penny that that the British taxpayer has had to borrow on their behalf for the next 50 or 70 years..............and repay it the moment they have independence." Source? | |||
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"I admit i haven't looked at or read anything about the SNP conference. But if they are still going to push forward with independence, let them. As long as they accept they have to repay every single penny that that the British taxpayer has had to borrow on their behalf for the next 50 or 70 years..............and repay it the moment they have independence. Source?" People have opinions you know some can think for themselves source was probably posters brain | |||
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"I admit i haven't looked at or read anything about the SNP conference. But if they are still going to push forward with independence, let them. As long as they accept they have to repay every single penny that that the British taxpayer has had to borrow on their behalf for the next 50 or 70 years..............and repay it the moment they have independence. Source?People have opinions you know some can think for themselves source was probably posters brain" Surely if you make such a claim you should be able to back it up? Especially as the post below it contradicts it? | |||
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" Can’t they just crack on and do it?" What’s your opinion Lionel ? Give the SNP another referendum? | |||
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" Can’t they just crack on and do it? What’s your opinion Lionel ? Give the SNP another referendum? " shame france beat italy mate we could have been playing you in the final next week. | |||
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" Can’t they just crack on and do it? What’s your opinion Lionel ? Give the SNP another referendum? shame france beat italy mate we could have been playing you in the final next week." Yeah I know ... was hoping for another Calcutta  . Looking like we will have Ireland at the Aviva ... | |||
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"SNP conference starting and they want a vote next year. Small majority of the public in favour apparently. I’m English. It’s perfectly clear that Scotland will go on having votes until the people give the right answer. I’m not the only English person bored to tears with the whole thing. Can’t they just crack on and do it? " Sturgeon has played the tories so masterfully, she has made the referendum debate about SNP being a competent organisation, therefore providing an adequate reason why Scotland should leave the union. Boris better step up his game, or he will be the leader that lost the union. | |||
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" Can’t they just crack on and do it? What’s your opinion Lionel ? Give the SNP another referendum? " Brexit is their trump card. They didnt vote for it,so why should they suffer? Boris's usual dismissive attitude hasn't helped the situation . | |||
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"SNP conference starting and they want a vote next year. Small majority of the public in favour apparently. I’m English. It’s perfectly clear that Scotland will go on having votes until the people give the right answer. I’m not the only English person bored to tears with the whole thing. Can’t they just crack on and do it? They are happy to take money from the rest of the union to help there covid problems. If they pay us back all the exess money they have had then maybe consider it,Oh dear they have no money. To even consider this in the middle of the current crisis is totally immoral in my view" Firstly we pay more into the UK than what we get back,scotlands recourse have kept the UK running for 40odd yrs,if we are such a drai n why the fck are they trying to keep hold of us ? | |||
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"SNP conference starting and they want a vote next year. Small majority of the public in favour apparently. I’m English. It’s perfectly clear that Scotland will go on having votes until the people give the right answer. I’m not the only English person bored to tears with the whole thing. Can’t they just crack on and do it? They are happy to take money from the rest of the union to help there covid problems. If they pay us back all the exess money they have had then maybe consider it,Oh dear they have no money. To even consider this in the middle of the current crisis is totally immoral in my view Firstly we pay more into the UK than what we get back,scotlands recourse have kept the UK running for 40odd yrs,if we are such a drai n why the fck are they trying to keep hold of us ?" That's a good question. I'm sure the little englanders who think we pay for everything will provide an answer. | |||
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" Can’t they just crack on and do it? What’s your opinion Lionel ? Give the SNP another referendum? Brexit is their trump card. They didnt vote for it,so why should they suffer? Boris's usual dismissive attitude hasn't helped the situation ." To be clear, your opinion is they should be given a referendum on independence? | |||
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" Can’t they just crack on and do it? What’s your opinion Lionel ? Give the SNP another referendum? Brexit is their trump card. They didnt vote for it,so why should they suffer? Boris's usual dismissive attitude hasn't helped the situation . To be clear, your opinion is they should be given a referendum on independence?" I think once we leave the eu there is a very strong argument that a referendum should be held. | |||
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" Can’t they just crack on and do it? What’s your opinion Lionel ? Give the SNP another referendum? Brexit is their trump card. They didnt vote for it,so why should they suffer? Boris's usual dismissive attitude hasn't helped the situation . To be clear, your opinion is they should be given a referendum on independence?" The Scottish ppl will have the say on when we will have a referendum as it is written in the Smith commission | |||
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" Can’t they just crack on and do it? What’s your opinion Lionel ? Give the SNP another referendum? Brexit is their trump card. They didnt vote for it,so why should they suffer? Boris's usual dismissive attitude hasn't helped the situation . To be clear, your opinion is they should be given a referendum on independence? The Scottish ppl will have the say on when we will have a referendum as it is written in the Smith commission " Scottish people - this time give a vote to those who are by birth Scottish but not currently living in Scotland ? | |||
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"Quite frankly I wish they would just go now. Myself and most people I know are bored of hearing them complain about how all their problems are because of the English I doubt most people will care or possibly even notice their departure " We could end up with a lot of illegal Scottish immigrants in England seeking a better life
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"Quite frankly I wish they would just go now. Myself and most people I know are bored of hearing them complain about how all their problems are because of the English I doubt most people will care or possibly even notice their departure We could end up with a lot of illegal Scottish immigrants in England seeking a better life
"Good point. And nobody wants to live their life feeling like an extra in Mel Gibson's Braveheart How badly has Hadrian's wall deteriorated by the way? | |||
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"The comments and attitudes displayed here are nothing short of disgusting. Is it any wonder that 3 out of the 4 nations that make up the UK are looking to leave? Ask yourselves why, what's the common denominator? Perhaps an easier solution would be for some of you to grow tf up and stop the bitching and name calling. " Maybe the English are sick to death of constantly being portrayed as the big bad wolf If the Scots want to leave then please just get on with it | |||
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"The comments and attitudes displayed here are nothing short of disgusting. Is it any wonder that 3 out of the 4 nations that make up the UK are looking to leave? Ask yourselves why, what's the common denominator? Perhaps an easier solution would be for some of you to grow tf up and stop the bitching and name calling. Maybe the English are sick to death of constantly being portrayed as the big bad wolf If the Scots want to leave then please just get on with it " Perhaps everyone is sick to death of the attitudes displayed by you? | |||
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"The comments and attitudes displayed here are nothing short of disgusting. Is it any wonder that 3 out of the 4 nations that make up the UK are looking to leave? Ask yourselves why, what's the common denominator? Perhaps an easier solution would be for some of you to grow tf up and stop the bitching and name calling. Maybe the English are sick to death of constantly being portrayed as the big bad wolf If the Scots want to leave then please just get on with it " Also, as I pointed out, it's not just Scotland is it so again, common denominator is? | |||
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"The comments and attitudes displayed here are nothing short of disgusting. Is it any wonder that 3 out of the 4 nations that make up the UK are looking to leave? Ask yourselves why, what's the common denominator? Perhaps an easier solution would be for some of you to grow tf up and stop the bitching and name calling. Maybe the English are sick to death of constantly being portrayed as the big bad wolf If the Scots want to leave then please just get on with it Perhaps everyone is sick to death of the attitudes displayed by you? " Then we're both sick to death of each other. I think I can see an answer to the problem | |||
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"The comments and attitudes displayed here are nothing short of disgusting. Is it any wonder that 3 out of the 4 nations that make up the UK are looking to leave? Ask yourselves why, what's the common denominator? Perhaps an easier solution would be for some of you to grow tf up and stop the bitching and name calling. " My comment was a bit tongue in cheek, are we not allowed a bit of banter between the English and Scottish these days? But there was a serious point. A border would have to be put in place wouldn't it? How would that work? | |||
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"The comments and attitudes displayed here are nothing short of disgusting. Is it any wonder that 3 out of the 4 nations that make up the UK are looking to leave? Ask yourselves why, what's the common denominator? Perhaps an easier solution would be for some of you to grow tf up and stop the bitching and name calling. My comment was a bit tongue in cheek, are we not allowed a bit of banter between the English and Scottish these days? But there was a serious point. A border would have to be put in place wouldn't it? How would that work? " I think it went beyond banter to be honest don't you? Nowhere have I said im an indie supporter, I have no thoughts on how a border would work I'm simply disheartened by the attitudes on this and other threads and question why. | |||
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"SNP conference starting and they want a vote next year. Small majority of the public in favour apparently. I’m English. It’s perfectly clear that Scotland will go on having votes until the people give the right answer. I’m not the only English person bored to tears with the whole thing. Can’t they just crack on and do it? They are happy to take money from the rest of the union to help there covid problems. If they pay us back all the exess money they have had then maybe consider it,Oh dear they have no money. To even consider this in the middle of the current crisis is totally immoral in my view" You are from an area if the uk that completely relies on handouts from the south of england. You are very happy to contribute less to the economy per head than Scotland. Should we get an extension on the transition period too given the covid situation? Talking about independence is nothing like screwing the country over economically when it comes to morality especially when 2 of the 4 nations did not vote for it and when the majority now realise it was t the brightest idea. Oh, and also, we didn't vote for no deal. We had all the cards. Easiest deal in history. The Leave campaign was sold on having deals and prosperity. Scotland should not be lectured by people like you. | |||
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"SNP conference starting and they want a vote next year. Small majority of the public in favour apparently. I’m English. It’s perfectly clear that Scotland will go on having votes until the people give the right answer. I’m not the only English person bored to tears with the whole thing. Can’t they just crack on and do it? They are happy to take money from the rest of the union to help there covid problems. If they pay us back all the exess money they have had then maybe consider it,Oh dear they have no money. To even consider this in the middle of the current crisis is totally immoral in my view You are from an area if the uk that completely relies on handouts from the south of england. You are very happy to contribute less to the economy per head than Scotland. Should we get an extension on the transition period too given the covid situation? Talking about independence is nothing like screwing the country over economically when it comes to morality especially when 2 of the 4 nations did not vote for it and when the majority now realise it was t the brightest idea. Oh, and also, we didn't vote for no deal. We had all the cards. Easiest deal in history. The Leave campaign was sold on having deals and prosperity. Scotland should not be lectured by people like you." But if Scotland had won independence last time they would have been out of the EU anyway | |||
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"Quite frankly I wish they would just go now. Myself and most people I know are bored of hearing them complain about how all their problems are because of the English I doubt most people will care or possibly even notice their departure We could end up with a lot of illegal Scottish immigrants in England seeking a better life
"We could end up with a lot of English wanting to relocate to Scotland so that they can retain their rights as european citizens. Very tempting to the educated people who typically voted to remain. We will happily take people who are able to contribute to the country. | |||
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"SNP conference starting and they want a vote next year. Small majority of the public in favour apparently. I’m English. It’s perfectly clear that Scotland will go on having votes until the people give the right answer. I’m not the only English person bored to tears with the whole thing. Can’t they just crack on and do it? They are happy to take money from the rest of the union to help there covid problems. If they pay us back all the exess money they have had then maybe consider it,Oh dear they have no money. To even consider this in the middle of the current crisis is totally immoral in my view You are from an area if the uk that completely relies on handouts from the south of england. You are very happy to contribute less to the economy per head than Scotland. Should we get an extension on the transition period too given the covid situation? Talking about independence is nothing like screwing the country over economically when it comes to morality especially when 2 of the 4 nations did not vote for it and when the majority now realise it was t the brightest idea. Oh, and also, we didn't vote for no deal. We had all the cards. Easiest deal in history. The Leave campaign was sold on having deals and prosperity. Scotland should not be lectured by people like you. But if Scotland had won independence last time they would have been out of the EU anyway " Scotland would have rejoined the EU. You are kidding yourself if you think that wouldn't happen. | |||
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"SNP conference starting and they want a vote next year. Small majority of the public in favour apparently. I’m English. It’s perfectly clear that Scotland will go on having votes until the people give the right answer. I’m not the only English person bored to tears with the whole thing. Can’t they just crack on and do it? They are happy to take money from the rest of the union to help there covid problems. If they pay us back all the exess money they have had then maybe consider it,Oh dear they have no money. To even consider this in the middle of the current crisis is totally immoral in my view You are from an area if the uk that completely relies on handouts from the south of england. You are very happy to contribute less to the economy per head than Scotland. Should we get an extension on the transition period too given the covid situation? Talking about independence is nothing like screwing the country over economically when it comes to morality especially when 2 of the 4 nations did not vote for it and when the majority now realise it was t the brightest idea. Oh, and also, we didn't vote for no deal. We had all the cards. Easiest deal in history. The Leave campaign was sold on having deals and prosperity. Scotland should not be lectured by people like you. But if Scotland had won independence last time they would have been out of the EU anyway Scotland would have rejoined the EU. You are kidding yourself if you think that wouldn't happen." For the record I'm not for or against independence either way, so long as the Scottish people get what they want that's fine by me. But I'm not the one kidding myself. How long would it have taken to rejoin the EU? | |||
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"SNP conference starting and they want a vote next year. Small majority of the public in favour apparently. I’m English. It’s perfectly clear that Scotland will go on having votes until the people give the right answer. I’m not the only English person bored to tears with the whole thing. Can’t they just crack on and do it? They are happy to take money from the rest of the union to help there covid problems. If they pay us back all the exess money they have had then maybe consider it,Oh dear they have no money. To even consider this in the middle of the current crisis is totally immoral in my view You are from an area if the uk that completely relies on handouts from the south of england. You are very happy to contribute less to the economy per head than Scotland. Should we get an extension on the transition period too given the covid situation? Talking about independence is nothing like screwing the country over economically when it comes to morality especially when 2 of the 4 nations did not vote for it and when the majority now realise it was t the brightest idea. Oh, and also, we didn't vote for no deal. We had all the cards. Easiest deal in history. The Leave campaign was sold on having deals and prosperity. Scotland should not be lectured by people like you. But if Scotland had won independence last time they would have been out of the EU anyway Scotland would have rejoined the EU. You are kidding yourself if you think that wouldn't happen. For the record I'm not for or against independence either way, so long as the Scottish people get what they want that's fine by me. But I'm not the one kidding myself. How long would it have taken to rejoin the EU? " Finland took 3 years. I am sure that an associate type membership would be implemented quickly. | |||
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Sooner Scotland and wales tell them to piss off the better | |||
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"Quite frankly I wish they would just go now. Myself and most people I know are bored of hearing them complain about how all their problems are because of the English I doubt most people will care or possibly even notice their departure We could end up with a lot of illegal Scottish immigrants in England seeking a better life
"No. You'd wind up with our Tories; which would be fine. The truth is that, financial disadvantages aside, eventually, independence is becoming more likely; even Boris is helping it along. I don't think it will be any time soon, though. It'll take time and a bit more demographic change. Money really isn't everything. Democracy is more important for many people. I'm one of them. The current political situation in the UK is clear. In a UK GE, a Tory government is the most likely result. In a Scottish Parliament election an SNP government is the most likely result. As long as the first is true, so the second will be. But why? Well, only 30 to 35% of Scots vote Tory, meaning the majority of us are opposed to being governed by them. However, since we are part of the UK, we are often governed by Tories. The SNP enjoy support in Scotland because they oppose much of Tory Party policy. Support for the Labour Party collapsed in Scotland because they thought they could become Tory-lite, as they did in England, and continue to take Scotland for granted. They failed to oppose - and they are no longer needed to, up here. So, the Tory vs SNP situation will remain with us. It's not sustainable; to be ultimately governed by a Party that doesn't even enjoy majority consent in the UK (the Tories got 43.6% of the UK vote last year). Me wanting Scotland to be independent isn't grievance, it's just me wanting to live in a country with a representative democracy. It's what the Tories want for the people of Hong Kong - and the people of many other places. So, why not Scotland? I'll tell you. As I said before - it's not all about money. The Tories are scared shitless of losing a third of the UK's landmass and all the territorial waters surrounding it - which are a bargain, for the small amount they cost the UK Treasury. It matters far more to them than the people of Scotland, well over half of whom are opposed to them. A tipping point might have been reached, where more than half of Scots are no longer prepared to be bought. Maybe, maybe not. I guess we'll see. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"Quite frankly I wish they would just go now. Myself and most people I know are bored of hearing them complain about how all their problems are because of the English I doubt most people will care or possibly even notice their departure We could end up with a lot of illegal Scottish immigrants in England seeking a better life
No. You'd wind up with our Tories; which would be fine.
The truth is that, financial disadvantages aside, eventually, independence is becoming more likely; even Boris is helping it along. I don't think it will be any time soon, though. It'll take time and a bit more demographic change.
Money really isn't everything. Democracy is more important for many people. I'm one of them.
The current political situation in the UK is clear. In a UK GE, a Tory government is the most likely result. In a Scottish Parliament election an SNP government is the most likely result. As long as the first is true, so the second will be. But why?
Well, only 30 to 35% of Scots vote Tory, meaning the majority of us are opposed to being governed by them. However, since we are part of the UK, we are often governed by Tories.
The SNP enjoy support in Scotland because they oppose much of Tory Party policy.
Support for the Labour Party collapsed in Scotland because they thought they could become Tory-lite, as they did in England, and continue to take Scotland for granted. They failed to oppose - and they are no longer needed to, up here.
So, the Tory vs SNP situation will remain with us. It's not sustainable; to be ultimately governed by a Party that doesn't even enjoy majority consent in the UK (the Tories got 43.6% of the UK vote last year).
Me wanting Scotland to be independent isn't grievance, it's just me wanting to live in a country with a representative democracy. It's what the Tories want for the people of Hong Kong - and the people of many other places. So, why not Scotland?
I'll tell you. As I said before - it's not all about money. The Tories are scared shitless of losing a third of the UK's landmass and all the territorial waters surrounding it - which are a bargain, for the small amount they cost the UK Treasury. It matters far more to them than the people of Scotland, well over half of whom are opposed to them.
A tipping point might have been reached, where more than half of Scots are no longer prepared to be bought.
Maybe, maybe not. I guess we'll see."I'm with you on all that and democracy is the most important thing, which begs the question, why would you want to be a part of the EU? I really don't think that the SNP are being honest with people over EU membership. Just my opinion of course | |||
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| Reply privately |
"Quite frankly I wish they would just go now. Myself and most people I know are bored of hearing them complain about how all their problems are because of the English I doubt most people will care or possibly even notice their departure We could end up with a lot of illegal Scottish immigrants in England seeking a better life
No. You'd wind up with our Tories; which would be fine.
The truth is that, financial disadvantages aside, eventually, independence is becoming more likely; even Boris is helping it along. I don't think it will be any time soon, though. It'll take time and a bit more demographic change.
Money really isn't everything. Democracy is more important for many people. I'm one of them.
The current political situation in the UK is clear. In a UK GE, a Tory government is the most likely result. In a Scottish Parliament election an SNP government is the most likely result. As long as the first is true, so the second will be. But why?
Well, only 30 to 35% of Scots vote Tory, meaning the majority of us are opposed to being governed by them. However, since we are part of the UK, we are often governed by Tories.
The SNP enjoy support in Scotland because they oppose much of Tory Party policy.
Support for the Labour Party collapsed in Scotland because they thought they could become Tory-lite, as they did in England, and continue to take Scotland for granted. They failed to oppose - and they are no longer needed to, up here.
So, the Tory vs SNP situation will remain with us. It's not sustainable; to be ultimately governed by a Party that doesn't even enjoy majority consent in the UK (the Tories got 43.6% of the UK vote last year).
Me wanting Scotland to be independent isn't grievance, it's just me wanting to live in a country with a representative democracy. It's what the Tories want for the people of Hong Kong - and the people of many other places. So, why not Scotland?
I'll tell you. As I said before - it's not all about money. The Tories are scared shitless of losing a third of the UK's landmass and all the territorial waters surrounding it - which are a bargain, for the small amount they cost the UK Treasury. It matters far more to them than the people of Scotland, well over half of whom are opposed to them.
A tipping point might have been reached, where more than half of Scots are no longer prepared to be bought.
Maybe, maybe not. I guess we'll see."Nothing more than an idealistic rose tinted notion. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm with you on all that and democracy is the most important thing, which begs the question, why would you want to be a part of the EU? I really don't think that the SNP are being honest with people over EU membership. Just my opinion of course "Being part of the EU is less of a problem for most Scots because it's seen - rightly, perhaps - as a more beneficial Union to be part of than the UK; since being part of both is no longer an option. The argument can be made that Scotland is far more in tune with EU Law than England is. So, that aspect of the 'control' issue isn't such a big deal for us. Let's face it - we have no significant control now, in the UK. As far as, eventually, using the Euro is concerned. We'd have no more fiscal autonomy than we do now; but we'd have the Bundesbank telling us what to do, rather than the BoE. Maybe that would be better? Let's face it, the currencies are worth pretty much the same. Currently, EU membership is a moot point. We're already out. If we became independent tomorrow, we'd have to earn membership again, if we wanted it. EU membership was a big part of the last IndyRef debate. Leaving the UK would mean leaving the EU - don't do it. Two years on. The UK decides to leave the EU. So, why not leave the UK anyway? Staying didn't get us very far, after all. Next IndyRef, whenever it happens - I still don't think it'll be that soon - it'll be interesting to see what the pro-Unionists say about EU membership. Arguing that staying out - with no prospect at all of rejoining - might be a hard sell they choose to avoid; especially if Brexit isn't the massive success Boris expects it to be. As I always say, it's a single issue - for me. I want to live in a representative democracy. Scotland becoming independent is the only way that will happen. Does that really make me a rabid nationalist, filled with hatred and grievance? Or just someone who wants his vote to actually matter? | |||
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"I'm with you on all that and democracy is the most important thing, which begs the question, why would you want to be a part of the EU? I really don't think that the SNP are being honest with people over EU membership. Just my opinion of course
Being part of the EU is less of a problem for most Scots because it's seen - rightly, perhaps - as a more beneficial Union to be part of than the UK; since being part of both is no longer an option.
The argument can be made that Scotland is far more in tune with EU Law than England is. So, that aspect of the 'control' issue isn't such a big deal for us. Let's face it - we have no significant control now, in the UK.
As far as, eventually, using the Euro is concerned. We'd have no more fiscal autonomy than we do now; but we'd have the Bundesbank telling us what to do, rather than the BoE. Maybe that would be better? Let's face it, the currencies are worth pretty much the same.
Currently, EU membership is a moot point. We're already out. If we became independent tomorrow, we'd have to earn membership again, if we wanted it.
EU membership was a big part of the last IndyRef debate. Leaving the UK would mean leaving the EU - don't do it.
Two years on. The UK decides to leave the EU. So, why not leave the UK anyway? Staying didn't get us very far, after all.
Next IndyRef, whenever it happens - I still don't think it'll be that soon - it'll be interesting to see what the pro-Unionists say about EU membership. Arguing that staying out - with no prospect at all of rejoining - might be a hard sell they choose to avoid; especially if Brexit isn't the massive success Boris expects it to be.
As I always say, it's a single issue - for me. I want to live in a representative democracy. Scotland becoming independent is the only way that will happen.
Does that really make me a rabid nationalist, filled with hatred and grievance?
Or just someone who wants his vote to actually matter?"Explain how Scotland gets to the stage of adopting the Euro without first having its own independent currency. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"Quite frankly I wish they would just go now. Myself and most people I know are bored of hearing them complain about how all their problems are because of the English I doubt most people will care or possibly even notice their departure We could end up with a lot of illegal Scottish immigrants in England seeking a better life
No. You'd wind up with our Tories; which would be fine.
The truth is that, financial disadvantages aside, eventually, independence is becoming more likely; even Boris is helping it along. I don't think it will be any time soon, though. It'll take time and a bit more demographic change.
Money really isn't everything. Democracy is more important for many people. I'm one of them.
The current political situation in the UK is clear. In a UK GE, a Tory government is the most likely result. In a Scottish Parliament election an SNP government is the most likely result. As long as the first is true, so the second will be. But why?
Well, only 30 to 35% of Scots vote Tory, meaning the majority of us are opposed to being governed by them. However, since we are part of the UK, we are often governed by Tories.
The SNP enjoy support in Scotland because they oppose much of Tory Party policy.
Support for the Labour Party collapsed in Scotland because they thought they could become Tory-lite, as they did in England, and continue to take Scotland for granted. They failed to oppose - and they are no longer needed to, up here.
So, the Tory vs SNP situation will remain with us. It's not sustainable; to be ultimately governed by a Party that doesn't even enjoy majority consent in the UK (the Tories got 43.6% of the UK vote last year).
Me wanting Scotland to be independent isn't grievance, it's just me wanting to live in a country with a representative democracy. It's what the Tories want for the people of Hong Kong - and the people of many other places. So, why not Scotland?
I'll tell you. As I said before - it's not all about money. The Tories are scared shitless of losing a third of the UK's landmass and all the territorial waters surrounding it - which are a bargain, for the small amount they cost the UK Treasury. It matters far more to them than the people of Scotland, well over half of whom are opposed to them.
A tipping point might have been reached, where more than half of Scots are no longer prepared to be bought.
Maybe, maybe not. I guess we'll see.
Nothing more than an idealistic rose tinted notion."Wanting to live in a representative democracy? Can't say I'm surprised you dismiss it so lightly. What would you do, if you wanted your vote to count? Move to England? Oh, wait ... LOL | |||
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"I'm with you on all that and democracy is the most important thing, which begs the question, why would you want to be a part of the EU? I really don't think that the SNP are being honest with people over EU membership. Just my opinion of course
Being part of the EU is less of a problem for most Scots because it's seen - rightly, perhaps - as a more beneficial Union to be part of than the UK; since being part of both is no longer an option.
The argument can be made that Scotland is far more in tune with EU Law than England is. So, that aspect of the 'control' issue isn't such a big deal for us. Let's face it - we have no significant control now, in the UK.
As far as, eventually, using the Euro is concerned. We'd have no more fiscal autonomy than we do now; but we'd have the Bundesbank telling us what to do, rather than the BoE. Maybe that would be better? Let's face it, the currencies are worth pretty much the same.
Currently, EU membership is a moot point. We're already out. If we became independent tomorrow, we'd have to earn membership again, if we wanted it.
EU membership was a big part of the last IndyRef debate. Leaving the UK would mean leaving the EU - don't do it.
Two years on. The UK decides to leave the EU. So, why not leave the UK anyway? Staying didn't get us very far, after all.
Next IndyRef, whenever it happens - I still don't think it'll be that soon - it'll be interesting to see what the pro-Unionists say about EU membership. Arguing that staying out - with no prospect at all of rejoining - might be a hard sell they choose to avoid; especially if Brexit isn't the massive success Boris expects it to be.
As I always say, it's a single issue - for me. I want to live in a representative democracy. Scotland becoming independent is the only way that will happen.
Does that really make me a rabid nationalist, filled with hatred and grievance?
Or just someone who wants his vote to actually matter?
Explain how Scotland gets to the stage of adopting the Euro without first having its own independent currency."It doesn't. Maybe you can explain why Scotland can't have its own currency? | |||
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"SNP conference starting and they want a vote next year. Small majority of the public in favour apparently. I’m English. It’s perfectly clear that Scotland will go on having votes until the people give the right answer. I’m not the only English person bored to tears with the whole thing. Can’t they just crack on and do it? " I'd have more respect for them if they really wanted independence but they don't they want to remain in the EU whilst simultaneously using the pound which means their interest rates would still be set by England who wouldn't have to consider their needs any more. In reality it is purely a vanity project for Nicola Sturgeon. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"Quite frankly I wish they would just go now. Myself and most people I know are bored of hearing them complain about how all their problems are because of the English I doubt most people will care or possibly even notice their departure We could end up with a lot of illegal Scottish immigrants in England seeking a better life
No. You'd wind up with our Tories; which would be fine.
The truth is that, financial disadvantages aside, eventually, independence is becoming more likely; even Boris is helping it along. I don't think it will be any time soon, though. It'll take time and a bit more demographic change.
Money really isn't everything. Democracy is more important for many people. I'm one of them.
The current political situation in the UK is clear. In a UK GE, a Tory government is the most likely result. In a Scottish Parliament election an SNP government is the most likely result. As long as the first is true, so the second will be. But why?
Well, only 30 to 35% of Scots vote Tory, meaning the majority of us are opposed to being governed by them. However, since we are part of the UK, we are often governed by Tories.
The SNP enjoy support in Scotland because they oppose much of Tory Party policy.
Support for the Labour Party collapsed in Scotland because they thought they could become Tory-lite, as they did in England, and continue to take Scotland for granted. They failed to oppose - and they are no longer needed to, up here.
So, the Tory vs SNP situation will remain with us. It's not sustainable; to be ultimately governed by a Party that doesn't even enjoy majority consent in the UK (the Tories got 43.6% of the UK vote last year).
Me wanting Scotland to be independent isn't grievance, it's just me wanting to live in a country with a representative democracy. It's what the Tories want for the people of Hong Kong - and the people of many other places. So, why not Scotland?
I'll tell you. As I said before - it's not all about money. The Tories are scared shitless of losing a third of the UK's landmass and all the territorial waters surrounding it - which are a bargain, for the small amount they cost the UK Treasury. It matters far more to them than the people of Scotland, well over half of whom are opposed to them.
A tipping point might have been reached, where more than half of Scots are no longer prepared to be bought.
Maybe, maybe not. I guess we'll see.
Nothing more than an idealistic rose tinted notion.
Wanting to live in a representative democracy? Can't say I'm surprised you dismiss it so lightly.
What would you do, if you wanted your vote to count? Move to England? Oh, wait ... LOL"Scotland votes for councils, U.K. parliament and its own parliament ... you think you aren’t already living in a representative democracy? | |||
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"I'm with you on all that and democracy is the most important thing, which begs the question, why would you want to be a part of the EU? I really don't think that the SNP are being honest with people over EU membership. Just my opinion of course
Being part of the EU is less of a problem for most Scots because it's seen - rightly, perhaps - as a more beneficial Union to be part of than the UK; since being part of both is no longer an option.
The argument can be made that Scotland is far more in tune with EU Law than England is. So, that aspect of the 'control' issue isn't such a big deal for us. Let's face it - we have no significant control now, in the UK.
As far as, eventually, using the Euro is concerned. We'd have no more fiscal autonomy than we do now; but we'd have the Bundesbank telling us what to do, rather than the BoE. Maybe that would be better? Let's face it, the currencies are worth pretty much the same.
Currently, EU membership is a moot point. We're already out. If we became independent tomorrow, we'd have to earn membership again, if we wanted it.
EU membership was a big part of the last IndyRef debate. Leaving the UK would mean leaving the EU - don't do it.
Two years on. The UK decides to leave the EU. So, why not leave the UK anyway? Staying didn't get us very far, after all.
Next IndyRef, whenever it happens - I still don't think it'll be that soon - it'll be interesting to see what the pro-Unionists say about EU membership. Arguing that staying out - with no prospect at all of rejoining - might be a hard sell they choose to avoid; especially if Brexit isn't the massive success Boris expects it to be.
As I always say, it's a single issue - for me. I want to live in a representative democracy. Scotland becoming independent is the only way that will happen.
Does that really make me a rabid nationalist, filled with hatred and grievance?
Or just someone who wants his vote to actually matter?
Explain how Scotland gets to the stage of adopting the Euro without first having its own independent currency.
It doesn't. Maybe you can explain why Scotland can't have its own currency?"Scotland can have its own currency. It also has to adopt the fiscal rules that go with that. | |||
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"I'm with you on all that and democracy is the most important thing, which begs the question, why would you want to be a part of the EU? I really don't think that the SNP are being honest with people over EU membership. Just my opinion of course
Being part of the EU is less of a problem for most Scots because it's seen - rightly, perhaps - as a more beneficial Union to be part of than the UK; since being part of both is no longer an option.
The argument can be made that Scotland is far more in tune with EU Law than England is. So, that aspect of the 'control' issue isn't such a big deal for us. Let's face it - we have no significant control now, in the UK.
As far as, eventually, using the Euro is concerned. We'd have no more fiscal autonomy than we do now; but we'd have the Bundesbank telling us what to do, rather than the BoE. Maybe that would be better? Let's face it, the currencies are worth pretty much the same.
Currently, EU membership is a moot point. We're already out. If we became independent tomorrow, we'd have to earn membership again, if we wanted it.
EU membership was a big part of the last IndyRef debate. Leaving the UK would mean leaving the EU - don't do it.
Two years on. The UK decides to leave the EU. So, why not leave the UK anyway? Staying didn't get us very far, after all.
Next IndyRef, whenever it happens - I still don't think it'll be that soon - it'll be interesting to see what the pro-Unionists say about EU membership. Arguing that staying out - with no prospect at all of rejoining - might be a hard sell they choose to avoid; especially if Brexit isn't the massive success Boris expects it to be.
As I always say, it's a single issue - for me. I want to live in a representative democracy. Scotland becoming independent is the only way that will happen.
Does that really make me a rabid nationalist, filled with hatred and grievance?
Or just someone who wants his vote to actually matter?
Explain how Scotland gets to the stage of adopting the Euro without first having its own independent currency.
It doesn't. Maybe you can explain why Scotland can't have its own currency?
Scotland can have its own currency. It also has to adopt the fiscal rules that go with that.
"They already have their own currency - the poond ! | |||
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| Reply privately |
"Quite frankly I wish they would just go now. Myself and most people I know are bored of hearing them complain about how all their problems are because of the English I doubt most people will care or possibly even notice their departure We could end up with a lot of illegal Scottish immigrants in England seeking a better life
No. You'd wind up with our Tories; which would be fine.
The truth is that, financial disadvantages aside, eventually, independence is becoming more likely; even Boris is helping it along. I don't think it will be any time soon, though. It'll take time and a bit more demographic change.
Money really isn't everything. Democracy is more important for many people. I'm one of them.
The current political situation in the UK is clear. In a UK GE, a Tory government is the most likely result. In a Scottish Parliament election an SNP government is the most likely result. As long as the first is true, so the second will be. But why?
Well, only 30 to 35% of Scots vote Tory, meaning the majority of us are opposed to being governed by them. However, since we are part of the UK, we are often governed by Tories.
The SNP enjoy support in Scotland because they oppose much of Tory Party policy.
Support for the Labour Party collapsed in Scotland because they thought they could become Tory-lite, as they did in England, and continue to take Scotland for granted. They failed to oppose - and they are no longer needed to, up here.
So, the Tory vs SNP situation will remain with us. It's not sustainable; to be ultimately governed by a Party that doesn't even enjoy majority consent in the UK (the Tories got 43.6% of the UK vote last year).
Me wanting Scotland to be independent isn't grievance, it's just me wanting to live in a country with a representative democracy. It's what the Tories want for the people of Hong Kong - and the people of many other places. So, why not Scotland?
I'll tell you. As I said before - it's not all about money. The Tories are scared shitless of losing a third of the UK's landmass and all the territorial waters surrounding it - which are a bargain, for the small amount they cost the UK Treasury. It matters far more to them than the people of Scotland, well over half of whom are opposed to them.
A tipping point might have been reached, where more than half of Scots are no longer prepared to be bought.
Maybe, maybe not. I guess we'll see."I understand what you’re saying, and thats fair enough, but in the current UK no political party ever gets near 50% of votes cast nationally. SNP in Scotland alone might do, although Plaid Cymri in Wales don’t look like they ever will. That’s just a function of having three or four moderate or bigger sized parties, unlike say America. If and when independence happens, my guess would be you’ll end up with a couple of new parties to fill the void and what’s left of the SNP won’t achieve 50% either. | |||
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"I'm with you on all that and democracy is the most important thing, which begs the question, why would you want to be a part of the EU? I really don't think that the SNP are being honest with people over EU membership. Just my opinion of course
Being part of the EU is less of a problem for most Scots because it's seen - rightly, perhaps - as a more beneficial Union to be part of than the UK; since being part of both is no longer an option.
The argument can be made that Scotland is far more in tune with EU Law than England is. So, that aspect of the 'control' issue isn't such a big deal for us. Let's face it - we have no significant control now, in the UK.
As far as, eventually, using the Euro is concerned. We'd have no more fiscal autonomy than we do now; but we'd have the Bundesbank telling us what to do, rather than the BoE. Maybe that would be better? Let's face it, the currencies are worth pretty much the same.
Currently, EU membership is a moot point. We're already out. If we became independent tomorrow, we'd have to earn membership again, if we wanted it.
EU membership was a big part of the last IndyRef debate. Leaving the UK would mean leaving the EU - don't do it.
Two years on. The UK decides to leave the EU. So, why not leave the UK anyway? Staying didn't get us very far, after all.
Next IndyRef, whenever it happens - I still don't think it'll be that soon - it'll be interesting to see what the pro-Unionists say about EU membership. Arguing that staying out - with no prospect at all of rejoining - might be a hard sell they choose to avoid; especially if Brexit isn't the massive success Boris expects it to be.
As I always say, it's a single issue - for me. I want to live in a representative democracy. Scotland becoming independent is the only way that will happen.
Does that really make me a rabid nationalist, filled with hatred and grievance?
Or just someone who wants his vote to actually matter?
Explain how Scotland gets to the stage of adopting the Euro without first having its own independent currency.
It doesn't. Maybe you can explain why Scotland can't have its own currency?
Scotland can have its own currency. It also has to adopt the fiscal rules that go with that.
They already have their own currency - the poond ! "And where is the fiscal policy for the pound determined?  | |||
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"If they vote for Independence then fine that's what democracy is about. Getting the financials right this time will help. Could not believe last time when they simply did not have a clue and at one point thought they could keep the pound and the BoE as their back up. Will they give Shetland independence as requested once they gain it themselves" Of course they wont most of the viable oil fields will be in Shetlands territorial waters. | |||
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"If they vote for Independence then fine that's what democracy is about. Getting the financials right this time will help. Could not believe last time when they simply did not have a clue and at one point thought they could keep the pound and the BoE as their back up. Will they give Shetland independence as requested once they gain it themselvesOf course they wont most of the viable oil fields will be in Shetlands territorial waters. "Sounds very much like double standards then from the SNP | |||
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"Quite frankly I wish they would just go now. Myself and most people I know are bored of hearing them complain about how all their problems are because of the English I doubt most people will care or possibly even notice their departure We could end up with a lot of illegal Scottish immigrants in England seeking a better life
No. You'd wind up with our Tories; which would be fine.
The truth is that, financial disadvantages aside, eventually, independence is becoming more likely; even Boris is helping it along. I don't think it will be any time soon, though. It'll take time and a bit more demographic change.
Money really isn't everything. Democracy is more important for many people. I'm one of them.
The current political situation in the UK is clear. In a UK GE, a Tory government is the most likely result. In a Scottish Parliament election an SNP government is the most likely result. As long as the first is true, so the second will be. But why?
Well, only 30 to 35% of Scots vote Tory, meaning the majority of us are opposed to being governed by them. However, since we are part of the UK, we are often governed by Tories.
The SNP enjoy support in Scotland because they oppose much of Tory Party policy.
Support for the Labour Party collapsed in Scotland because they thought they could become Tory-lite, as they did in England, and continue to take Scotland for granted. They failed to oppose - and they are no longer needed to, up here.
So, the Tory vs SNP situation will remain with us. It's not sustainable; to be ultimately governed by a Party that doesn't even enjoy majority consent in the UK (the Tories got 43.6% of the UK vote last year).
Me wanting Scotland to be independent isn't grievance, it's just me wanting to live in a country with a representative democracy. It's what the Tories want for the people of Hong Kong - and the people of many other places. So, why not Scotland?
I'll tell you. As I said before - it's not all about money. The Tories are scared shitless of losing a third of the UK's landmass and all the territorial waters surrounding it - which are a bargain, for the small amount they cost the UK Treasury. It matters far more to them than the people of Scotland, well over half of whom are opposed to them.
A tipping point might have been reached, where more than half of Scots are no longer prepared to be bought.
Maybe, maybe not. I guess we'll see.
I understand what you’re saying, and thats fair enough, but in the current UK no political party ever gets near 50% of votes cast nationally. SNP in Scotland alone might do, although Plaid Cymri in Wales don’t look like they ever will.
That’s just a function of having three or four moderate or bigger sized parties, unlike say America.
If and when independence happens, my guess would be you’ll end up with a couple of new parties to fill the void and what’s left of the SNP won’t achieve 50% either."Fair point, OP - and I have to say, if the UK were a PR democracy like Germany, or New Zealand, I'd be far less likely to vote for independnce. Why? Because I would know my vote counted in who was running the UK. It's not an idea favoured by either of the main Parties because, as you rightly point out, they'd be highly unlikely to ever gain 50% of the over all UK vote - but that's a good thing. It strengthens democracy by ensuring nobody can complain about being effectively disenfrachised - which is what FPTP does. At the last UK GE, 56.4% of voters did not assent to a Tory Government but they got one anyway - and with an 80 seat majority. That is NOT representative democracy. FPTP is a tool to keep a ruling class in power. The Tories, in particular, are experts at exploiting it. However, in a PR Parliament, they wouldn't be able to do that very often - if at all. The smaller parties would get the representation their voters deserved. It works for the Tories in the Scottish Parliament; if they get 30% of the votes, they get 30% of the seats. In fact, the Tories are the opposition in Holyrood; since neither the Labour Party nor the Liberal Democrats are any longer required to fill that role. The SNP have only ever had one majority in the Scottish Parliament (in 2011, 69 of 129 seats) - indeed, it was designed to prevent them - or any other Party attaining one. Currently, the Green Party hold the balance of power up here. Imagine a UK PR Parliament, where the main party would have to get assent for its policies from the majority of its elected representatives; rather than what we have now. A government elected by a minority, able to ride roughshod over any opposition - despite the opposition actually representing more voters than the Government. As I've already said. I want to live in a representative democracy. Unionists don't want to and they don't want me to, either. That won't stop me voting for it. Why should I? P.S. IF Scotland ever becomes independent - and it's still a big if - it's unlikely we'll have that many new Parties. However, if we do, and they get enough votes, they will be represented in our Parliament. That doesn't happen in Westminster. UKIP, love them or hate them, got 4,000,000 votes in 2017 - and no seats. That's not democracy. | |||
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"Quite frankly I wish they would just go now. Myself and most people I know are bored of hearing them complain about how all their problems are because of the English I doubt most people will care or possibly even notice their departure We could end up with a lot of illegal Scottish immigrants in England seeking a better life
No. You'd wind up with our Tories; which would be fine.
The truth is that, financial disadvantages aside, eventually, independence is becoming more likely; even Boris is helping it along. I don't think it will be any time soon, though. It'll take time and a bit more demographic change.
Money really isn't everything. Democracy is more important for many people. I'm one of them.
The current political situation in the UK is clear. In a UK GE, a Tory government is the most likely result. In a Scottish Parliament election an SNP government is the most likely result. As long as the first is true, so the second will be. But why?
Well, only 30 to 35% of Scots vote Tory, meaning the majority of us are opposed to being governed by them. However, since we are part of the UK, we are often governed by Tories.
The SNP enjoy support in Scotland because they oppose much of Tory Party policy.
Support for the Labour Party collapsed in Scotland because they thought they could become Tory-lite, as they did in England, and continue to take Scotland for granted. They failed to oppose - and they are no longer needed to, up here.
So, the Tory vs SNP situation will remain with us. It's not sustainable; to be ultimately governed by a Party that doesn't even enjoy majority consent in the UK (the Tories got 43.6% of the UK vote last year).
Me wanting Scotland to be independent isn't grievance, it's just me wanting to live in a country with a representative democracy. It's what the Tories want for the people of Hong Kong - and the people of many other places. So, why not Scotland?
I'll tell you. As I said before - it's not all about money. The Tories are scared shitless of losing a third of the UK's landmass and all the territorial waters surrounding it - which are a bargain, for the small amount they cost the UK Treasury. It matters far more to them than the people of Scotland, well over half of whom are opposed to them.
A tipping point might have been reached, where more than half of Scots are no longer prepared to be bought.
Maybe, maybe not. I guess we'll see.
Nothing more than an idealistic rose tinted notion.
Wanting to live in a representative democracy? Can't say I'm surprised you dismiss it so lightly.
What would you do, if you wanted your vote to count? Move to England? Oh, wait ... LOL
Scotland votes for councils, U.K. parliament and its own parliament ... you think you aren’t already living in a representative democracy?"No. I'm not. If it's not PR, it's not representative of the number of votes cast for each party - and you know that as well as I do. Or do you think an 80 seat majority on 43.6% of the vote is, actually representative? Maybe you do. Which would explain much. | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know?" Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU. | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU." how would that work exactly? | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU." Won't the EU have to break their own rules for that to happen | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU. Won't the EU have to break their own rules for that to happen" I dont think he thought it through before making that comment | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU.how would that work exactly?" How what being in the EU help them to offset the cost of leaving the UK, is that your question? They would have free access to trade in the EU, ready made global trade deals, etc. Free travel in EU countries, easy entry for tourists from EU countries. Infrastructure and other support from the EU. Plus all the other benefits that being a member of the EU brings. | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU.how would that work exactly? How what being in the EU help them to offset the cost of leaving the UK, is that your question? They would have free access to trade in the EU, ready made global trade deals, etc. Free travel in EU countries, easy entry for tourists from EU countries. Infrastructure and other support from the EU. Plus all the other benefits that being a member of the EU brings. " No my question was how much will independence cost.joining the eu is impossible in the near future for them so that is totally irrelevant. They need to sort the cost out first as the eu will not let them join if they dont meet the fiscal policy they got their fingers burnt last time when they let greece fiddle the books to join and look how that went. | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know?" How much is it costing us? | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? How much is it costing us?" who is us? | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU.how would that work exactly? How what being in the EU help them to offset the cost of leaving the UK, is that your question? They would have free access to trade in the EU, ready made global trade deals, etc. Free travel in EU countries, easy entry for tourists from EU countries. Infrastructure and other support from the EU. Plus all the other benefits that being a member of the EU brings. No my question was how much will independence cost.joining the eu is impossible in the near future for them so that is totally irrelevant. They need to sort the cost out first as the eu will not let them join if they dont meet the fiscal policy they got their fingers burnt last time when they let greece fiddle the books to join and look how that went." Fair enough. But the long term goal of rejoining could make it beneficial for them in the long run. | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong "Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out. | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU.how would that work exactly? How what being in the EU help them to offset the cost of leaving the UK, is that your question? They would have free access to trade in the EU, ready made global trade deals, etc. Free travel in EU countries, easy entry for tourists from EU countries. Infrastructure and other support from the EU. Plus all the other benefits that being a member of the EU brings. No my question was how much will independence cost.joining the eu is impossible in the near future for them so that is totally irrelevant. They need to sort the cost out first as the eu will not let them join if they dont meet the fiscal policy they got their fingers burnt last time when they let greece fiddle the books to join and look how that went. Fair enough. But the long term goal of rejoining could make it beneficial for them in the long run." What can they sell to the eu that they cant to the rest of the world? There is nothing to stop them travelling in europe now or tourists entering scotland.What infrastructure do they need from the eu ? | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out."It's what the EU would insist on though | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong " you dont even need bait to fish this pond. | |||
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"Quite frankly I wish they would just go now. Myself and most people I know are bored of hearing them complain about how all their problems are because of the English I doubt most people will care or possibly even notice their departure We could end up with a lot of illegal Scottish immigrants in England seeking a better life
No. You'd wind up with our Tories; which would be fine.
The truth is that, financial disadvantages aside, eventually, independence is becoming more likely; even Boris is helping it along. I don't think it will be any time soon, though. It'll take time and a bit more demographic change.
Money really isn't everything. Democracy is more important for many people. I'm one of them.
The current political situation in the UK is clear. In a UK GE, a Tory government is the most likely result. In a Scottish Parliament election an SNP government is the most likely result. As long as the first is true, so the second will be. But why?
Well, only 30 to 35% of Scots vote Tory, meaning the majority of us are opposed to being governed by them. However, since we are part of the UK, we are often governed by Tories.
The SNP enjoy support in Scotland because they oppose much of Tory Party policy.
Support for the Labour Party collapsed in Scotland because they thought they could become Tory-lite, as they did in England, and continue to take Scotland for granted. They failed to oppose - and they are no longer needed to, up here.
So, the Tory vs SNP situation will remain with us. It's not sustainable; to be ultimately governed by a Party that doesn't even enjoy majority consent in the UK (the Tories got 43.6% of the UK vote last year).
Me wanting Scotland to be independent isn't grievance, it's just me wanting to live in a country with a representative democracy. It's what the Tories want for the people of Hong Kong - and the people of many other places. So, why not Scotland?
I'll tell you. As I said before - it's not all about money. The Tories are scared shitless of losing a third of the UK's landmass and all the territorial waters surrounding it - which are a bargain, for the small amount they cost the UK Treasury. It matters far more to them than the people of Scotland, well over half of whom are opposed to them.
A tipping point might have been reached, where more than half of Scots are no longer prepared to be bought.
Maybe, maybe not. I guess we'll see.
Nothing more than an idealistic rose tinted notion.
Wanting to live in a representative democracy? Can't say I'm surprised you dismiss it so lightly.
What would you do, if you wanted your vote to count? Move to England? Oh, wait ... LOL
Scotland votes for councils, U.K. parliament and its own parliament ... you think you aren’t already living in a representative democracy?
No. I'm not. If it's not PR, it's not representative of the number of votes cast for each party - and you know that as well as I do. Or do you think an 80 seat majority on 43.6% of the vote is, actually representative?
Maybe you do. Which would explain much."Scotland has PR - why did you forget to mention this? So when you go to polls to elect your representatives, those who sit in your parliament and are responsible for delivering the real day to day things which directly impact the people in Scotland (agriculture, forestry and fisheries, education, environment, health and social services, housing, law and order, local government, sport and the arts, tourism and economic development, and many aspects of transport), they are selected by a process that is not available to those in England. So why would you suggest the statistics of the U.K. election has any relevance to your notion of Scotland’s democracy not being truly representative. | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU.how would that work exactly? How what being in the EU help them to offset the cost of leaving the UK, is that your question? They would have free access to trade in the EU, ready made global trade deals, etc. Free travel in EU countries, easy entry for tourists from EU countries. Infrastructure and other support from the EU. Plus all the other benefits that being a member of the EU brings. No my question was how much will independence cost.joining the eu is impossible in the near future for them so that is totally irrelevant. They need to sort the cost out first as the eu will not let them join if they dont meet the fiscal policy they got their fingers burnt last time when they let greece fiddle the books to join and look how that went. Fair enough. But the long term goal of rejoining could make it beneficial for them in the long run.What can they sell to the eu that they cant to the rest of the world? There is nothing to stop them travelling in europe now or tourists entering scotland.What infrastructure do they need from the eu ?" Come on. Are you really suggesting that there is no benefit to free trade within Europe? Free movement bill was passed recently by the government ready to go. Here's some examples of EU funded infrastructure projects. The kind of thing that could benefit Scotland. https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/projects/major/ For some context. Scotland received £410 million over the past six years as part of the regional development fund. Which they used on infrastructure. Not to mention the £400 million, they received as part of the European Social Fund, which was used to help get people out of poverty and back into employment. | |||
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"rebuild Hadrian's wall & get the Mexicans to pay for it, Donald Trump is looking for a new job next year maybe he will join the SNP ? " Many a true word said in jest. Scotland in the EU ( if they ever manage to qualify) and England out of the EU means a hard border | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out."In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90% In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30% In 2019 Croatia had no deficit. Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job... | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
"Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
"And they achieved that with public spending cuts, 25% VAT rate and privatising services. You up for that? | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU.how would that work exactly? How what being in the EU help them to offset the cost of leaving the UK, is that your question? They would have free access to trade in the EU, ready made global trade deals, etc. Free travel in EU countries, easy entry for tourists from EU countries. Infrastructure and other support from the EU. Plus all the other benefits that being a member of the EU brings. No my question was how much will independence cost.joining the eu is impossible in the near future for them so that is totally irrelevant. They need to sort the cost out first as the eu will not let them join if they dont meet the fiscal policy they got their fingers burnt last time when they let greece fiddle the books to join and look how that went. Fair enough. But the long term goal of rejoining could make it beneficial for them in the long run.What can they sell to the eu that they cant to the rest of the world? There is nothing to stop them travelling in europe now or tourists entering scotland.What infrastructure do they need from the eu ? Come on. Are you really suggesting that there is no benefit to free trade within Europe? Free movement bill was passed recently by the government ready to go. Here's some examples of EU funded infrastructure projects. The kind of thing that could benefit Scotland. https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/projects/major/ For some context. Scotland received £410 million over the past six years as part of the regional development fund. Which they used on infrastructure. Not to mention the £400 million, they received as part of the European Social Fund, which was used to help get people out of poverty and back into employment." yes and they paid part of the £9 billion a year of contributions and got £800 million over 6 years sounds like a great deal to me(for the eu). When will you get it in your head its not free trade within europe you pay to trade every year.  | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU.how would that work exactly? How what being in the EU help them to offset the cost of leaving the UK, is that your question? They would have free access to trade in the EU, ready made global trade deals, etc. Free travel in EU countries, easy entry for tourists from EU countries. Infrastructure and other support from the EU. Plus all the other benefits that being a member of the EU brings. No my question was how much will independence cost.joining the eu is impossible in the near future for them so that is totally irrelevant. They need to sort the cost out first as the eu will not let them join if they dont meet the fiscal policy they got their fingers burnt last time when they let greece fiddle the books to join and look how that went. Fair enough. But the long term goal of rejoining could make it beneficial for them in the long run.What can they sell to the eu that they cant to the rest of the world? There is nothing to stop them travelling in europe now or tourists entering scotland.What infrastructure do they need from the eu ? Come on. Are you really suggesting that there is no benefit to free trade within Europe? Free movement bill was passed recently by the government ready to go. Here's some examples of EU funded infrastructure projects. The kind of thing that could benefit Scotland. https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/projects/major/ For some context. Scotland received £410 million over the past six years as part of the regional development fund. Which they used on infrastructure. Not to mention the £400 million, they received as part of the European Social Fund, which was used to help get people out of poverty and back into employment.yes and they paid part of the £9 billion a year of contributions and got £800 million over 6 years sounds like a great deal to me(for the eu). When will you get it in your head its not free trade within europe you pay to trade every year. "Mind boggling isn't it? That's 54 thousand million pounds over 6 years and if Scotland only contributed 10% of that its 5 thousand 400 million pounds and people think getting 800 million back is somehow good. Unbelievable | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU.how would that work exactly? How what being in the EU help them to offset the cost of leaving the UK, is that your question? They would have free access to trade in the EU, ready made global trade deals, etc. Free travel in EU countries, easy entry for tourists from EU countries. Infrastructure and other support from the EU. Plus all the other benefits that being a member of the EU brings. No my question was how much will independence cost.joining the eu is impossible in the near future for them so that is totally irrelevant. They need to sort the cost out first as the eu will not let them join if they dont meet the fiscal policy they got their fingers burnt last time when they let greece fiddle the books to join and look how that went. Fair enough. But the long term goal of rejoining could make it beneficial for them in the long run.What can they sell to the eu that they cant to the rest of the world? There is nothing to stop them travelling in europe now or tourists entering scotland.What infrastructure do they need from the eu ? Come on. Are you really suggesting that there is no benefit to free trade within Europe? Free movement bill was passed recently by the government ready to go. Here's some examples of EU funded infrastructure projects. The kind of thing that could benefit Scotland. https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/projects/major/ For some context. Scotland received £410 million over the past six years as part of the regional development fund. Which they used on infrastructure. Not to mention the £400 million, they received as part of the European Social Fund, which was used to help get people out of poverty and back into employment.yes and they paid part of the £9 billion a year of contributions and got £800 million over 6 years sounds like a great deal to me(for the eu). When will you get it in your head its not free trade within europe you pay to trade every year. "Dude. Come on. You know why the money gets paid into the EU. And you know that it gives us access to the market which is worth way more than that. Besides that wasn't the question you asked, that I was answering. In any case. I was responding to your question about the cost to Scotland of leaving the union. I think, that largely hinges on the chances of them being able to rejoin the EU. If I was Scottish, this is what I'd base my vote on. | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU.how would that work exactly? How what being in the EU help them to offset the cost of leaving the UK, is that your question? They would have free access to trade in the EU, ready made global trade deals, etc. Free travel in EU countries, easy entry for tourists from EU countries. Infrastructure and other support from the EU. Plus all the other benefits that being a member of the EU brings. No my question was how much will independence cost.joining the eu is impossible in the near future for them so that is totally irrelevant. They need to sort the cost out first as the eu will not let them join if they dont meet the fiscal policy they got their fingers burnt last time when they let greece fiddle the books to join and look how that went. Fair enough. But the long term goal of rejoining could make it beneficial for them in the long run.What can they sell to the eu that they cant to the rest of the world? There is nothing to stop them travelling in europe now or tourists entering scotland.What infrastructure do they need from the eu ? Come on. Are you really suggesting that there is no benefit to free trade within Europe? Free movement bill was passed recently by the government ready to go. Here's some examples of EU funded infrastructure projects. The kind of thing that could benefit Scotland. https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/projects/major/ For some context. Scotland received £410 million over the past six years as part of the regional development fund. Which they used on infrastructure. Not to mention the £400 million, they received as part of the European Social Fund, which was used to help get people out of poverty and back into employment.yes and they paid part of the £9 billion a year of contributions and got £800 million over 6 years sounds like a great deal to me(for the eu). When will you get it in your head its not free trade within europe you pay to trade every year.
Dude. Come on.
You know why the money gets paid into the EU. And you know that it gives us access to the market which is worth way more than that.
Besides that wasn't the question you asked, that I was answering.
In any case. I was responding to your question about the cost to Scotland of leaving the union.
I think, that largely hinges on the chances of them being able to rejoin the EU. If I was Scottish, this is what I'd base my vote on. "You do know that scotland get £15 billion a year under the barnet formula and raise their own taxes in scotland dont you? | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU.how would that work exactly? How what being in the EU help them to offset the cost of leaving the UK, is that your question? They would have free access to trade in the EU, ready made global trade deals, etc. Free travel in EU countries, easy entry for tourists from EU countries. Infrastructure and other support from the EU. Plus all the other benefits that being a member of the EU brings. No my question was how much will independence cost.joining the eu is impossible in the near future for them so that is totally irrelevant. They need to sort the cost out first as the eu will not let them join if they dont meet the fiscal policy they got their fingers burnt last time when they let greece fiddle the books to join and look how that went. Fair enough. But the long term goal of rejoining could make it beneficial for them in the long run.What can they sell to the eu that they cant to the rest of the world? There is nothing to stop them travelling in europe now or tourists entering scotland.What infrastructure do they need from the eu ? Come on. Are you really suggesting that there is no benefit to free trade within Europe? Free movement bill was passed recently by the government ready to go. Here's some examples of EU funded infrastructure projects. The kind of thing that could benefit Scotland. https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/projects/major/ For some context. Scotland received £410 million over the past six years as part of the regional development fund. Which they used on infrastructure. Not to mention the £400 million, they received as part of the European Social Fund, which was used to help get people out of poverty and back into employment.yes and they paid part of the £9 billion a year of contributions and got £800 million over 6 years sounds like a great deal to me(for the eu). When will you get it in your head its not free trade within europe you pay to trade every year.
Dude. Come on.
You know why the money gets paid into the EU. And you know that it gives us access to the market which is worth way more than that.
Besides that wasn't the question you asked, that I was answering.
In any case. I was responding to your question about the cost to Scotland of leaving the union.
I think, that largely hinges on the chances of them being able to rejoin the EU. If I was Scottish, this is what I'd base my vote on. You do know that scotland get £15 billion a year under the barnet formula and raise their own taxes in scotland dont you?"I do. I didn't know the exact figure though. | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU.how would that work exactly? How what being in the EU help them to offset the cost of leaving the UK, is that your question? They would have free access to trade in the EU, ready made global trade deals, etc. Free travel in EU countries, easy entry for tourists from EU countries. Infrastructure and other support from the EU. Plus all the other benefits that being a member of the EU brings. No my question was how much will independence cost.joining the eu is impossible in the near future for them so that is totally irrelevant. They need to sort the cost out first as the eu will not let them join if they dont meet the fiscal policy they got their fingers burnt last time when they let greece fiddle the books to join and look how that went. Fair enough. But the long term goal of rejoining could make it beneficial for them in the long run.What can they sell to the eu that they cant to the rest of the world? There is nothing to stop them travelling in europe now or tourists entering scotland.What infrastructure do they need from the eu ? Come on. Are you really suggesting that there is no benefit to free trade within Europe? Free movement bill was passed recently by the government ready to go. Here's some examples of EU funded infrastructure projects. The kind of thing that could benefit Scotland. https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/projects/major/ For some context. Scotland received £410 million over the past six years as part of the regional development fund. Which they used on infrastructure. Not to mention the £400 million, they received as part of the European Social Fund, which was used to help get people out of poverty and back into employment.yes and they paid part of the £9 billion a year of contributions and got £800 million over 6 years sounds like a great deal to me(for the eu). When will you get it in your head its not free trade within europe you pay to trade every year.
Dude. Come on.
You know why the money gets paid into the EU. And you know that it gives us access to the market which is worth way more than that.
Besides that wasn't the question you asked, that I was answering.
In any case. I was responding to your question about the cost to Scotland of leaving the union.
I think, that largely hinges on the chances of them being able to rejoin the EU. If I was Scottish, this is what I'd base my vote on. You do know that scotland get £15 billion a year under the barnet formula and raise their own taxes in scotland dont you?
I do. I didn't know the exact figure though. "well its alot more than a paltry £800 million over 6 year. I was really looking for a snp supporter on here to explain how they were going to pay for the welfare state,what they were going to do about defense or were they not going to bother with an army ,navy and air force?,what currency are they proposing to use /these are questions i would be asking but got waylaid with your eu obsession. | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU.how would that work exactly? How what being in the EU help them to offset the cost of leaving the UK, is that your question? They would have free access to trade in the EU, ready made global trade deals, etc. Free travel in EU countries, easy entry for tourists from EU countries. Infrastructure and other support from the EU. Plus all the other benefits that being a member of the EU brings. No my question was how much will independence cost.joining the eu is impossible in the near future for them so that is totally irrelevant. They need to sort the cost out first as the eu will not let them join if they dont meet the fiscal policy they got their fingers burnt last time when they let greece fiddle the books to join and look how that went. Fair enough. But the long term goal of rejoining could make it beneficial for them in the long run.What can they sell to the eu that they cant to the rest of the world? There is nothing to stop them travelling in europe now or tourists entering scotland.What infrastructure do they need from the eu ? Come on. Are you really suggesting that there is no benefit to free trade within Europe? Free movement bill was passed recently by the government ready to go. Here's some examples of EU funded infrastructure projects. The kind of thing that could benefit Scotland. https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/projects/major/ For some context. Scotland received £410 million over the past six years as part of the regional development fund. Which they used on infrastructure. Not to mention the £400 million, they received as part of the European Social Fund, which was used to help get people out of poverty and back into employment.yes and they paid part of the £9 billion a year of contributions and got £800 million over 6 years sounds like a great deal to me(for the eu). When will you get it in your head its not free trade within europe you pay to trade every year.
Dude. Come on.
You know why the money gets paid into the EU. And you know that it gives us access to the market which is worth way more than that.
Besides that wasn't the question you asked, that I was answering.
In any case. I was responding to your question about the cost to Scotland of leaving the union.
I think, that largely hinges on the chances of them being able to rejoin the EU. If I was Scottish, this is what I'd base my vote on. You do know that scotland get £15 billion a year under the barnet formula and raise their own taxes in scotland dont you?
I do. I didn't know the exact figure though. well its alot more than a paltry £800 million over 6 year.
I was really looking for a snp supporter on here to explain how they were going to pay for the welfare state,what they were going to do about defense or were they not going to bother with an army ,navy and air force?,what currency are they proposing to use /these are questions i would be asking but got waylaid with your eu obsession.""EU obsession"? Isn't it possible to have a proper conversation round here anymore? | |||
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"How much will independence cost Scotland anybody know? Might not cost them anything if they can rejoin the EU.how would that work exactly? How what being in the EU help them to offset the cost of leaving the UK, is that your question? They would have free access to trade in the EU, ready made global trade deals, etc. Free travel in EU countries, easy entry for tourists from EU countries. Infrastructure and other support from the EU. Plus all the other benefits that being a member of the EU brings. No my question was how much will independence cost.joining the eu is impossible in the near future for them so that is totally irrelevant. They need to sort the cost out first as the eu will not let them join if they dont meet the fiscal policy they got their fingers burnt last time when they let greece fiddle the books to join and look how that went. Fair enough. But the long term goal of rejoining could make it beneficial for them in the long run.What can they sell to the eu that they cant to the rest of the world? There is nothing to stop them travelling in europe now or tourists entering scotland.What infrastructure do they need from the eu ? Come on. Are you really suggesting that there is no benefit to free trade within Europe? Free movement bill was passed recently by the government ready to go. Here's some examples of EU funded infrastructure projects. The kind of thing that could benefit Scotland. https://ec.europa.eu/regional_policy/en/projects/major/ For some context. Scotland received £410 million over the past six years as part of the regional development fund. Which they used on infrastructure. Not to mention the £400 million, they received as part of the European Social Fund, which was used to help get people out of poverty and back into employment.yes and they paid part of the £9 billion a year of contributions and got £800 million over 6 years sounds like a great deal to me(for the eu). When will you get it in your head its not free trade within europe you pay to trade every year. "Stark figures indeed. Of course apart from the fact Scotland does not qualify and could be 10 years to be considered they also have to get Spain on board | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years"There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions. | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
And they achieved that with public spending cuts, 25% VAT rate and privatising services. You up for that? "No, but that's not the only way to cut a deficit. An independent Scotland would be able to refinance the current debt at historically low rates. Lots of the UK debt was bought a long time ago at higher rates. I have seen estimates of 2bn saving by doing this. | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
"Scotland was never a member of the EU, however the UK was a member. Using your logic you might as well say the Isle of Sheppey was a member and would already be aligned to EU rules. | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Scotland was never a member of the EU, however the UK was a member.
Using your logic you might as well say the Isle of Sheppey was a member and would already be aligned to EU rules."Stop being pedantic. You know what I was getting at. Scotland meets the rules and regulations for entry to the EU due to the UKs membership. | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
And they achieved that with public spending cuts, 25% VAT rate and privatising services. You up for that?
No, but that's not the only way to cut a deficit.
An independent Scotland would be able to refinance the current debt at historically low rates. Lots of the UK debt was bought a long time ago at higher rates. I have seen estimates of 2bn saving by doing this.
"Exactly it was a uk debt do you think an independent scotland could just walk away from their share of it? | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
And they achieved that with public spending cuts, 25% VAT rate and privatising services. You up for that?
No, but that's not the only way to cut a deficit.
An independent Scotland would be able to refinance the current debt at historically low rates. Lots of the UK debt was bought a long time ago at higher rates. I have seen estimates of 2bn saving by doing this.
Exactly it was a uk debt do you think an independent scotland could just walk away from their share of it?"Have I indicated at any point that Scotland would walk away without it's share of the debt? | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
And they achieved that with public spending cuts, 25% VAT rate and privatising services. You up for that?
No, but that's not the only way to cut a deficit.
An independent Scotland would be able to refinance the current debt at historically low rates. Lots of the UK debt was bought a long time ago at higher rates. I have seen estimates of 2bn saving by doing this.
Exactly it was a uk debt do you think an independent scotland could just walk away from their share of it?
Have I indicated at any point that Scotland would walk away without it's share of the debt?
"no i was asking a question hence the question mark. | |||
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"if they want to go let them." The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote. | |||
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"if they want to go let them. The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote." Who said it was a once in a lifetime referendum? | |||
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"if they want to go let them. The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote." Yet no one can find any reference to the “once in a lifetime” in the Edinburgh agreement that followed it. | |||
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"if they want to go let them. The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote. Who said it was a once in a lifetime referendum?" Sturgeon. Said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for independence. Pretty sure Salmond said it too | |||
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"if they want to go let them. The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote. Who said it was a once in a lifetime referendum? Sturgeon. Said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for independence. Pretty sure Salmond said it too " The Yes movement is way bigger then the snp or salmond. | |||
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"if they want to go let them. The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote. Who said it was a once in a lifetime referendum? Sturgeon. Said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for independence. Pretty sure Salmond said it too The Yes movement is way bigger then the snp or salmond. " Just answering a question. Do you not believe your 'leaders'? | |||
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"if they want to go let them. The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote. Who said it was a once in a lifetime referendum? Sturgeon. Said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for independence. Pretty sure Salmond said it too The Yes movement is way bigger then the snp or salmond. Just answering a question. Do you not believe your 'leaders'? " Once Scotland becomes a republic I’ll answer that | |||
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"if they want to go let them. The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote. Who said it was a once in a lifetime referendum? Sturgeon. Said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for independence. Pretty sure Salmond said it too " https://theferret.scot/sturgeon-2014-independence-referendum-generation/ | |||
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"if they want to go let them. The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote. Who said it was a once in a lifetime referendum? Sturgeon. Said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for independence. Pretty sure Salmond said it too " https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-scotland-29196661 Salmon said it on the bbc. Funny how the snp can’t keep their word | |||
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"if they want to go let them. The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote. Who said it was a once in a lifetime referendum? Sturgeon. Said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for independence. Pretty sure Salmond said it too https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-scotland-29196661 Salmon said it on the bbc. Funny how the snp can’t keep their word " If you can’t provide evidence in the actual agreement and your only point is salmond said on the bbc...
Incidentally a “generation” in the good Friday agreement regarding unification is 7 years.
2014 -2021 just happens to be 7 years as well. | |||
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"if they want to go let them. The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote. Who said it was a once in a lifetime referendum? Sturgeon. Said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for independence. Pretty sure Salmond said it too https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-scotland-29196661 Salmon said it on the bbc. Funny how the snp can’t keep their word " And the tories and better together also told us if we voted no we would stay in the eu ,and nowhere is it written and signed that it was once in a generation ,maybe we will find Boris dead in a ditch lol | |||
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"if they want to go let them. The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote. Who said it was a once in a lifetime referendum? Sturgeon. Said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for independence. Pretty sure Salmond said it too https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-scotland-29196661 Salmon said it on the bbc. Funny how the snp can’t keep their word " I couldn't care less what he said. I have never voted SNP. I voted No but I voted No because I felt that Scotland in the UK and the UK being in the EU was the best for Scotland. Scotland in the UK, out of the EU and led by donkeys certainly isn't what I want. I don't think the majority do either. | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
"Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from | |||
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"if they want to go let them. The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote. Who said it was a once in a lifetime referendum? Sturgeon. Said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for independence. Pretty sure Salmond said it too https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-scotland-29196661 Salmon said it on the bbc. Funny how the snp can’t keep their word If you can’t provide evidence in the actual agreement and your only point is salmond said on the bbc...
Incidentally a “generation” in the good Friday agreement regarding unification is 7 years.
2014 -2021 just happens to be 7 years as well. "Ah so the leader of the snp saying is some get out of jail for you. The vote was no, so how about you stand by the vote and move on. As per the Leaders own words 55/45 | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
And they achieved that with public spending cuts, 25% VAT rate and privatising services. You up for that?
No, but that's not the only way to cut a deficit.
An independent Scotland would be able to refinance the current debt at historically low rates. Lots of the UK debt was bought a long time ago at higher rates. I have seen estimates of 2bn saving by doing this.
"No as a new state with a large deficit it would probably be able to borrow but the lender's set the repayment in accordance to the risk. With no track record, large debt and no currency of its own they would be unlikely to get the low rates they would need. Don't get me wrong if they vote for it they should get it | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from"Can a country who have no borrowing powers have a deficit? I would think the country who are borrowing on behalf of another are the ones with the deficit | |||
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"if they want to go let them. The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote. Who said it was a once in a lifetime referendum? Sturgeon. Said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for independence. Pretty sure Salmond said it too https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-scotland-29196661 Salmon said it on the bbc. Funny how the snp can’t keep their word If you can’t provide evidence in the actual agreement and your only point is salmond said on the bbc...
Incidentally a “generation” in the good Friday agreement regarding unification is 7 years.
2014 -2021 just happens to be 7 years as well.
Ah so the leader of the snp saying is some get out of jail for you.
The vote was no, so how about you stand by the vote and move on. As per the Leaders own words
55/45 "It’s called democracy. the material change was being told to remain in the EU vote NO. The Scottish people are sovereign. Why on earth a country wants governed by another country is beyond me. Thankfully the tides turning now. | |||
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"if they want to go let them. The majority did not want to go. This was clear in that "once in a lifetime" vote. Who said it was a once in a lifetime referendum? Sturgeon. Said it was a once in a lifetime opportunity to vote for independence. Pretty sure Salmond said it too https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-scotland-29196661 Salmon said it on the bbc. Funny how the snp can’t keep their word If you can’t provide evidence in the actual agreement and your only point is salmond said on the bbc...
Incidentally a “generation” in the good Friday agreement regarding unification is 7 years.
2014 -2021 just happens to be 7 years as well.
Ah so the leader of the snp saying is some get out of jail for you.
The vote was no, so how about you stand by the vote and move on. As per the Leaders own words
55/45 "And why not stick to the vow that if you vote no you will stay in the eu ? | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from
Can a country who have no borrowing powers have a deficit? I would think the country who are borrowing on behalf of another are the ones with the deficit "The proportion of the debt goes with the new independent country. The deficit is not the debt its the difference between income and outgoings so yes the will debt and deficit from day 1 | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from
Can a country who have no borrowing powers have a deficit? I would think the country who are borrowing on behalf of another are the ones with the deficit
The proportion of the debt goes with the new independent country. The deficit is not the debt its the difference between income and outgoings so yes the will debt and deficit from day 1"Scotland gives the exchequer nearly 70 billion per year and receives about 35 back so we don't have a deficit Westminster does ,and also when independent if we have to pay any debt that Westminster has we will also be able to claim 8.4% of any assets | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from
Can a country who have no borrowing powers have a deficit? I would think the country who are borrowing on behalf of another are the ones with the deficit
The proportion of the debt goes with the new independent country. The deficit is not the debt its the difference between income and outgoings so yes the will debt and deficit from day 1
Scotland gives the exchequer nearly 70 billion per year and receives about 35 back so we don't have a deficit Westminster does ,and also when independent if we have to pay any debt that Westminster has we will also be able to claim 8.4% of any assets "Sadly the figures don't tally with what the SNP freely admit. Even going by the Scottish government website they have a 12.6 billion deficit 2018 to 2019 . 2019 to 2020 is just over 15 billion. Even the guardian shows this https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/21/scotland-2018-deficit-higher-than-uk-as-a-whole-last-year | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from"The one that didn't stop Croatia from joining? Also, spain is unlikely to be a problem.. https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-membership-spain-scotland/ | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from
Can a country who have no borrowing powers have a deficit? I would think the country who are borrowing on behalf of another are the ones with the deficit
The proportion of the debt goes with the new independent country. The deficit is not the debt its the difference between income and outgoings so yes the will debt and deficit from day 1
Scotland gives the exchequer nearly 70 billion per year and receives about 35 back so we don't have a deficit Westminster does ,and also when independent if we have to pay any debt that Westminster has we will also be able to claim 8.4% of any assets "I suspect you are talking about the report mentioned in this article which also shows it is false https://theferret.scot/claim-scotland-pays-out-more-than-gets-back-false/ | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from
The one that didn't stop Croatia from joining? Also, spain is unlikely to be a problem..
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-membership-spain-scotland/"I'm not saying its not do able but it takes time. They can't leave the UK one day and join the EU the next. What is the plan to reduce the deficit? And what do the do in the meantime | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from
Can a country who have no borrowing powers have a deficit? I would think the country who are borrowing on behalf of another are the ones with the deficit
The proportion of the debt goes with the new independent country. The deficit is not the debt its the difference between income and outgoings so yes the will debt and deficit from day 1"Ur wrong | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from
Can a country who have no borrowing powers have a deficit? I would think the country who are borrowing on behalf of another are the ones with the deficit
The proportion of the debt goes with the new independent country. The deficit is not the debt its the difference between income and outgoings so yes the will debt and deficit from day 1
Ur wrong"Deficit is not the debt | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from
Can a country who have no borrowing powers have a deficit? I would think the country who are borrowing on behalf of another are the ones with the deficit
The proportion of the debt goes with the new independent country. The deficit is not the debt its the difference between income and outgoings so yes the will debt and deficit from day 1
Ur wrong
Deficit is not the debt"I think you will find the Scottish government run a surplus all deficit and debt is westminsters as they are the ones who are responsible for all the money given to devoled governments and are the ones doing sell the borrowing | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from
Can a country who have no borrowing powers have a deficit? I would think the country who are borrowing on behalf of another are the ones with the deficit
The proportion of the debt goes with the new independent country. The deficit is not the debt its the difference between income and outgoings so yes the will debt and deficit from day 1
Ur wrong
Deficit is not the debt
I think you will find the Scottish government run a surplus all deficit and debt is westminsters as they are the ones who are responsible for all the money given to devoled governments and are the ones doing sell the borrowing "Again deficit is the difference between income and out goings. Therefore even if the uk paid all of Scotland's debt they would still have a deficit and building a new debt all of their own. | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from
Can a country who have no borrowing powers have a deficit? I would think the country who are borrowing on behalf of another are the ones with the deficit
The proportion of the debt goes with the new independent country. The deficit is not the debt its the difference between income and outgoings so yes the will debt and deficit from day 1
Ur wrong
Deficit is not the debt
I think you will find the Scottish government run a surplus all deficit and debt is westminsters as they are the ones who are responsible for all the money given to devoled governments and are the ones doing sell the borrowing "As for the surplus please refer to the Scottish governments website that clearly shows a deficit. | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from
Can a country who have no borrowing powers have a deficit? I would think the country who are borrowing on behalf of another are the ones with the deficit
The proportion of the debt goes with the new independent country. The deficit is not the debt its the difference between income and outgoings so yes the will debt and deficit from day 1
Ur wrong
Deficit is not the debt
I think you will find the Scottish government run a surplus all deficit and debt is westminsters as they are the ones who are responsible for all the money given to devoled governments and are the ones doing sell the borrowing
As for the surplus please refer to the Scottish governments website that clearly shows a deficit. "Westminster deficit | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from
Can a country who have no borrowing powers have a deficit? I would think the country who are borrowing on behalf of another are the ones with the deficit
The proportion of the debt goes with the new independent country. The deficit is not the debt its the difference between income and outgoings so yes the will debt and deficit from day 1
Ur wrong
Deficit is not the debt
I think you will find the Scottish government run a surplus all deficit and debt is westminsters as they are the ones who are responsible for all the money given to devoled governments and are the ones doing sell the borrowing
As for the surplus please refer to the Scottish governments website that clearly shows a deficit.
Westminster deficit"No the Scottish government website shows the figures for Scotland. Please take a look. | |||
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"I read that it would take at least 10 years of severe austerity to get the deficit down to acceptable levels. But I'm sure someone will tell me that's wrong
Well seeing as how austerity completely failed last time,I'm.not sure how they work that out.
In 2011 Croatia had a deficit of 7.90%
In 2013 Croatia joined the EU with a deficit of 5.30%
In 2019 Croatia had no deficit.
Now, I am sure there is a fab expert in Croatia's Excessive Deficit Procedure who can explain how this was achieved but it certainly didn't look like an "at least 10 years" job...
Croatia applied to join in 2003 and as you say finally joined in 2013 after the EU told them to cut the deficit. I make that 10 years
There are plenty more conditions to joining the EU than the deficit so these would have had to have been met too. Scotland, being a EU member already, is already aligned to most or all of the other conditions.
Yes many conditions to joining and Scotland does not meet one of the most important ones. Also as said it relies on being accepted by all member States. Spain would be hard to get a yes vote from
Can a country who have no borrowing powers have a deficit? I would think the country who are borrowing on behalf of another are the ones with the deficit
The proportion of the debt goes with the new independent country. The deficit is not the debt its the difference between income and outgoings so yes the will debt and deficit from day 1
Ur wrong
Deficit is not the debt
I think you will find the Scottish government run a surplus all deficit and debt is westminsters as they are the ones who are responsible for all the money given to devoled governments and are the ones doing sell the borrowing "You really are deluded read your own governments figures. The figures from the Scottish Government show Scotland’s notional deficit rose from £13.1 billion in 2018-19 to £15.1 billion in 2019-20. This is more than Scotland’s entire health budget for the year, which was £13.8 billion in 2019-20. The ‘Union dividend’ per person in Scotland (the combined value of higher spending and lower revenue) was £1,941 in 2019-20. This was an increase from £1,805 in 2018-19 Public expenditure per person in Scotland in 2019-20 was £1,633 higher than the UK average. | |||
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" Westminster deficit" To funny, note the Uk deficit. So that will be per head per person What about Scotland’s 53% public service jobs? Who is going to pay for that? But you have the oil. The oil that’s just now costing more to drill than it’s selling for. | |||
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"Wouldn't Scotland being independent be better for England as you subsidise them over 1k per head per rear?" Yes. | |||
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"Wouldn't Scotland being independent be better for England as you subsidise them over 1k per head per rear?" Financially better off yes. Would be sad to see them go but if its the will of the people in a free and fair referendum then that should be respected. | |||
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"New ipsos mori poll today. 56% Indy It’s coming "Remain was well in the lead in 2016, didn't win though, of course remain now say there should be at least a 60% vote of registered voters to do anything such as leaving the EU or the UK | |||
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"I hope that Scotland gets what it wants. They didn’t vote in favour of Brexit as a nation. If the do get independence then I think Wales will follow. And if they do England might be in trouble. " Please tell me that’s a joke !? Wales independence ?? They aren’t a real country, it’s like Cornwall wanting independence.... England in trouble ! Does anyone know how economics works !? The moneys made in England not in tourist destinations like wales and Scotland. Both heavily subsidised by England....anyone been to Cardiff or Swansea recently !? Rough to say the least ! | |||
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"I hope that Scotland gets what it wants. They didn’t vote in favour of Brexit as a nation. If the do get independence then I think Wales will follow. And if they do England might be in trouble. Please tell me that’s a joke !? Wales independence ?? They aren’t a real country, it’s like Cornwall wanting independence.... England in trouble ! Does anyone know how economics works !? The moneys made in England not in tourist destinations like wales and Scotland. Both heavily subsidised by England....anyone been to Cardiff or Swansea recently !? Rough to say the least ! " People don't necessarily vote to make their country better off financially, the Brexit referendum in 2016 proved that much. If that's what people vote for then they have to deal with the consequences. | |||
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"What a load of pish some of the English folk on here post. You do realise that Edinburgh is a financial hub and generates a massive amount of income for the UK exchequer. Then factor in the food and agriculture industries. Oh and we are a net exporter of renewable energy. Add in a thriving technology and gaming sector and a world class academic and research industry on top of tourism and yes the dreaded oil and gas that could still make decent money for the tax receipts and I think you'll find that England does not subsidise Scotland. You'll be welcome to join us up over the border when we do gain independence and thrive in a civil society where we care for our fellow humans unlike the tory bastards in Westmonster." I'm certainly no expert on Scottish economics. However I have now seen several EU politicians clearly state that they do not want Scotland to join the EU as an independent country because their economy would need to be so heavily subsidised That's just what I've seen | |||
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"I hope that Scotland gets what it wants. They didn’t vote in favour of Brexit as a nation. If the do get independence then I think Wales will follow. And if they do England might be in trouble. Please tell me that’s a joke !? Wales independence ?? They aren’t a real country, it’s like Cornwall wanting independence.... England in trouble ! Does anyone know how economics works !? The moneys made in England not in tourist destinations like wales and Scotland. Both heavily subsidised by England....anyone been to Cardiff or Swansea recently !? Rough to say the least ! " That's coming from the guy from Derby. An area significantly subsidised by London and the South East. Scotland and Wales leaving the UK will isolated England even further on the international scene. Post brexit there are real issues for england. | |||
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"What a load of pish some of the English folk on here post. You do realise that Edinburgh is a financial hub and generates a massive amount of income for the UK exchequer. Then factor in the food and agriculture industries. Oh and we are a net exporter of renewable energy. Add in a thriving technology and gaming sector and a world class academic and research industry on top of tourism and yes the dreaded oil and gas that could still make decent money for the tax receipts and I think you'll find that England does not subsidise Scotland. You'll be welcome to join us up over the border when we do gain independence and thrive in a civil society where we care for our fellow humans unlike the tory bastards in Westmonster. I'm certainly no expert on Scottish economics. However I have now seen several EU politicians clearly state that they do not want Scotland to join the EU as an independent country because their economy would need to be so heavily subsidised That's just what I've seen "Links please. You could say exactly the same for all the other countries on the joiners list and those countries that have recently joined. | |||
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"I hope that Scotland gets what it wants. They didn’t vote in favour of Brexit as a nation. If the do get independence then I think Wales will follow. And if they do England might be in trouble. Please tell me that’s a joke !? Wales independence ?? They aren’t a real country, it’s like Cornwall wanting independence.... England in trouble ! Does anyone know how economics works !? The moneys made in England not in tourist destinations like wales and Scotland. Both heavily subsidised by England....anyone been to Cardiff or Swansea recently !? Rough to say the least ! That's coming from the guy from Derby. An area significantly subsidised by London and the South East. Scotland and Wales leaving the UK will isolated England even further on the international scene. Post brexit there are real issues for england." Why would Wales want to leave the UK? The majority of people there aren't that daft. And have you forgotten that Wales voted for Brexit? | |||
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"What a load of pish some of the English folk on here post. You do realise that Edinburgh is a financial hub and generates a massive amount of income for the UK exchequer. Then factor in the food and agriculture industries. Oh and we are a net exporter of renewable energy. Add in a thriving technology and gaming sector and a world class academic and research industry on top of tourism and yes the dreaded oil and gas that could still make decent money for the tax receipts and I think you'll find that England does not subsidise Scotland. You'll be welcome to join us up over the border when we do gain independence and thrive in a civil society where we care for our fellow humans unlike the tory bastards in Westmonster. I'm certainly no expert on Scottish economics. However I have now seen several EU politicians clearly state that they do not want Scotland to join the EU as an independent country because their economy would need to be so heavily subsidised That's just what I've seen
Links please. You could say exactly the same for all the other countries on the joiners list and those countries that have recently joined."Google is your friend | |||
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