FabSwingers.com forum: Whip NOT withdraw

By *dsindy OP TV/TS
over a year ago

East Lancashire

As most will know, a Conservative mp has been arrested and bailed for suspicion of sexual assault. Now he should (rightly) be afforded anonymity until and unless it is proved or disproved.

It now turns out the Whip has not been removed AND the Chief Whip was aware of these allegations before.

I am in two minds here....withdraw the Whip effectively removes anonymity yet allowing the whip to remain seems to send out the wrong message regarding policy on sexual harassment/assault from the government.

Note, this is NOT a political bashing thread...I would say the same if it were a Labour/Liberal/SNP or any other political party.

What's your view? Please keep it polite. Thank you.

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

As soon as he's been charged, then he will lose the Whip.

I would imagine that his name will leak out in the near future.

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By *dsindy OP TV/TS
over a year ago

East Lancashire

"As soon as he's been charged, then he will lose the Whip.

I would imagine that his name will leak out in the near future. "

The VERY near future going by parliaments record of keeping thing secret.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

If they withdraw the whip now his name will be out,also he has not been charged so no action can be taken.

labour of course said differently how stupid can they be.

When charged it is a different matter but still inocent till find guilty remember

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"If they withdraw the whip now his name will be out,also he has not been charged so no action can be taken.

labour of course said differently how stupid can they be.

When charged it is a different matter but still inocent till find guilty remember"

What did labour say exactly?

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"If they withdraw the whip now his name will be out,also he has not been charged so no action can be taken.

labour of course said differently how stupid can they be.

When charged it is a different matter but still inocent till find guilty remember

What did labour say exactly?"
Cannot remember exact words it was a member of the shadow cabinnet,I think Lisa Nandy,but she said stronger action should have been taken.

I found this suprising

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By *r Magic HandsCouple (MM)
over a year ago

Plymouth

I wanted to understand POLITICS more, so I looked it up on the internet.

I came to the conclusion it is formed from two words:-

1) POLI is Greek for MANY.

2) TICS are blood-sucking parasites.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"I wanted to understand POLITICS more, so I looked it up on the internet.

I came to the conclusion it is formed from two words:-

1) POLI is Greek for MANY.

2) TICS are blood-sucking parasites."

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"If they withdraw the whip now his name will be out,also he has not been charged so no action can be taken.

labour of course said differently how stupid can they be.

When charged it is a different matter but still inocent till find guilty remember

What did labour say exactly?Cannot remember exact words it was a member of the shadow cabinnet,I think Lisa Nandy,but she said stronger action should have been taken.

I found this suprising"

Very surprising as I cant see it anywhere.

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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield /derby cinemas

"If they withdraw the whip now his name will be out,also he has not been charged so no action can be taken.

labour of course said differently how stupid can they be.

When charged it is a different matter but still inocent till find guilty remember

What did labour say exactly?Cannot remember exact words it was a member of the shadow cabinnet,I think Lisa Nandy,but she said stronger action should have been taken.

I found this suprising

Very surprising as I cant see it anywhere."
,,,..... Jess Phillips ( not Lisa Nandy ) critised the decision of the Tories not to suspend the MP while investigations continue , but there is the difficulty whereby if they do it will become apparent who the accused is and for some , as yet , unexplained reason the police currently wish to keep his identity secret , ,Although I am sure a statement could be made saying that the MP is suspended but we will not name him until we have the agreement of the police ,, Jess Phillips also pointed out the case of Charlie Elphicke who had the Tory whip withdrawn while investigations were ongoing ( apart from the time the Tories needed his vote so he was re- instated ) incidentally he was found guilty

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If a police officer had been arrested for ra criminal offence he would have been suspended straight away.

I think the tories need to rethink this.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"If a police officer had been arrested for ra criminal offence he would have been suspended straight away.

I think the tories need to rethink this."

First sentence. Correct.

Second sentence. No not yet anyway.

Suspension of a police officer does not automatically put his/her name into the public domain. Withdrawing the whip from an MP does.

In this case the MP would cease to be a Conservative MP and sit as an independent. That would be recorded in the public domain and would automatically out him.

Remember that at the moment whatever he has or has not done is only "alleged".

He has not yet been charged, let alone convicted.

Should he be charged then I would fully support his immediate suspension.

I would take the exact same stance whatever party the MP serves.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"If they withdraw the whip now his name will be out,also he has not been charged so no action can be taken.

labour of course said differently how stupid can they be.

When charged it is a different matter but still inocent till find guilty remember

What did labour say exactly?Cannot remember exact words it was a member of the shadow cabinnet,I think Lisa Nandy,but she said stronger action should have been taken.

I found this suprising

Very surprising as I cant see it anywhere. ,,,..... Jess Phillips ( not Lisa Nandy ) critised the decision of the Tories not to suspend the MP while investigations continue , but there is the difficulty whereby if they do it will become apparent who the accused is and for some , as yet , unexplained reason the police currently wish to keep his identity secret , ,Although I am sure a statement could be made saying that the MP is suspended but we will not name him until we have the agreement of the police ,, Jess Phillips also pointed out the case of Charlie Elphicke who had the Tory whip withdrawn while investigations were ongoing ( apart from the time the Tories needed his vote so he was re- instated ) incidentally he was found guilty "

I'm going to keep my mouth shut on jess phillips

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"If a police officer had been arrested for ra criminal offence he would have been suspended straight away.

I think the tories need to rethink this.

First sentence. Correct.

Second sentence. No not yet anyway.

Suspension of a police officer does not automatically put his/her name into the public domain. Withdrawing the whip from an MP does.

In this case the MP would cease to be a Conservative MP and sit as an independent. That would be recorded in the public domain and would automatically out him.

Remember that at the moment whatever he has or has not done is only "alleged".

He has not yet been charged, let alone convicted.

Should he be charged then I would fully support his immediate suspension.

I would take the exact same stance whatever party the MP serves.

If he wasnt an mp would they name him or is it only after you have been charged you lose your anonymity?

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"If a police officer had been arrested for ra criminal offence he would have been suspended straight away.

I think the tories need to rethink this.

First sentence. Correct.

Second sentence. No not yet anyway.

Suspension of a police officer does not automatically put his/her name into the public domain. Withdrawing the whip from an MP does.

In this case the MP would cease to be a Conservative MP and sit as an independent. That would be recorded in the public domain and would automatically out him.

Remember that at the moment whatever he has or has not done is only "alleged".

He has not yet been charged, let alone convicted.

Should he be charged then I would fully support his immediate suspension.

I would take the exact same stance whatever party the MP serves.

If he wasnt an mp would they name him or is it only after you have been charged you lose your anonymity?"

Only named when you appear on a charge sheet. Applies to everyone.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"If a police officer had been arrested for ra criminal offence he would have been suspended straight away.

I think the tories need to rethink this.

First sentence. Correct.

Second sentence. No not yet anyway.

Suspension of a police officer does not automatically put his/her name into the public domain. Withdrawing the whip from an MP does.

In this case the MP would cease to be a Conservative MP and sit as an independent. That would be recorded in the public domain and would automatically out him.

Remember that at the moment whatever he has or has not done is only "alleged".

He has not yet been charged, let alone convicted.

Should he be charged then I would fully support his immediate suspension.

I would take the exact same stance whatever party the MP serves.

If he wasnt an mp would they name him or is it only after you have been charged you lose your anonymity?

Only named when you appear on a charge sheet. Applies to everyone. "

Cheers.I wasnt sure.

Cos I know some are trying to keep it till They are actually tried.

Makes sense..if he isnt charged bit unfair to.have his name bandied about.

Even for a Tory.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"If a police officer had been arrested for ra criminal offence he would have been suspended straight away.

I think the tories need to rethink this.

First sentence. Correct.

Second sentence. No not yet anyway.

Suspension of a police officer does not automatically put his/her name into the public domain. Withdrawing the whip from an MP does.

In this case the MP would cease to be a Conservative MP and sit as an independent. That would be recorded in the public domain and would automatically out him.

Remember that at the moment whatever he has or has not done is only "alleged".

He has not yet been charged, let alone convicted.

Should he be charged then I would fully support his immediate suspension.

I would take the exact same stance whatever party the MP serves.

If he wasnt an mp would they name him or is it only after you have been charged you lose your anonymity?"

I think you missed the key word. "Automatically"

Quite often names of arrested people go public before charges are brought (wrongly in my view) but it isn't automatic. Pulling the whip would make it so.

In high profile cases, which this one will surely be, naming the suspect will only serve the feeding frenzy in the media and could also prejudice any future trial.

We have no idea who the accuser is or what the exact allegations are. Remember we are not that far down the line from Tom Watson and Nick.

It would be a travesty if these allegations prove to be unfounded but a senior MP gets the Leon Brittain treatment.

I know all the Tory haters on here have smelled blood and are frothing at the mouth to make as much of it as they can, but there needs to be fairness to all concerned.

The truth, for good or bad, will come out in the fullness of time and that is the way it should be.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"If a police officer had been arrested for ra criminal offence he would have been suspended straight away.

I think the tories need to rethink this.

First sentence. Correct.

Second sentence. No not yet anyway.

Suspension of a police officer does not automatically put his/her name into the public domain. Withdrawing the whip from an MP does.

In this case the MP would cease to be a Conservative MP and sit as an independent. That would be recorded in the public domain and would automatically out him.

Remember that at the moment whatever he has or has not done is only "alleged".

He has not yet been charged, let alone convicted.

Should he be charged then I would fully support his immediate suspension.

I would take the exact same stance whatever party the MP serves.

If he wasnt an mp would they name him or is it only after you have been charged you lose your anonymity?

I think you missed the key word. "Automatically"

Quite often names of arrested people go public before charges are brought (wrongly in my view) but it isn't automatic. Pulling the whip would make it so.

In high profile cases, which this one will surely be, naming the suspect will only serve the feeding frenzy in the media and could also prejudice any future trial.

We have no idea who the accuser is or what the exact allegations are. Remember we are not that far down the line from Tom Watson and Nick.

It would be a travesty if these allegations prove to be unfounded but a senior MP gets the Leon Brittain treatment.

I know all the Tory haters on here have smelled blood and are frothing at the mouth to make as much of it as they can, but there needs to be fairness to all concerned.

The truth, for good or bad, will come out in the fullness of time and that is the way it should be.

Putting politics to one side,this country has a rich tradition of the wealthy and powerful escaping justice.

There is no surprise there is a degree of cynicism involved.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe a Fund raiser can be done so big ben strikes

when the M.P's name is released to the public.

Alledgedly of course .

Breggs zit

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"If a police officer had been arrested for ra criminal offence he would have been suspended straight away.

I think the tories need to rethink this.

First sentence. Correct.

Second sentence. No not yet anyway.

Suspension of a police officer does not automatically put his/her name into the public domain. Withdrawing the whip from an MP does.

In this case the MP would cease to be a Conservative MP and sit as an independent. That would be recorded in the public domain and would automatically out him.

Remember that at the moment whatever he has or has not done is only "alleged".

He has not yet been charged, let alone convicted.

Should he be charged then I would fully support his immediate suspension.

I would take the exact same stance whatever party the MP serves.

If he wasnt an mp would they name him or is it only after you have been charged you lose your anonymity?

I think you missed the key word. "Automatically"

Quite often names of arrested people go public before charges are brought (wrongly in my view) but it isn't automatic. Pulling the whip would make it so.

In high profile cases, which this one will surely be, naming the suspect will only serve the feeding frenzy in the media and could also prejudice any future trial.

We have no idea who the accuser is or what the exact allegations are. Remember we are not that far down the line from Tom Watson and Nick.

It would be a travesty if these allegations prove to be unfounded but a senior MP gets the Leon Brittain treatment.

I know all the Tory haters on here have smelled blood and are frothing at the mouth to make as much of it as they can, but there needs to be fairness to all concerned.

The truth, for good or bad, will come out in the fullness of time and that is the way it should be.

Putting politics to one side,this country has a rich tradition of the wealthy and powerful escaping justice.

There is no surprise there is a degree of cynicism involved."

Of course there is some cynicism, but some people are incapable of putting politics to one side. Even for a moment.

In this day and age it isn't that easy to escape justice, but justice must be done and a witch hunt serves no-one but the mob.

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

In any other walk of life he would be suspended, no need to name him.

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By *otlovefun42Couple
over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"In any other walk of life he would be suspended, no need to name him. "

That is the problem.

He cannot be suspended from the party without the whip being withdrawn.

If the whip is withdrawn he is named by default.

If, for example, he was party chairman or held any other post in the party (but not an MP) then it would be much easier. But as an MP it is much more complicated and cannot be done without him being named..

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

He deserves his anonymity at the moment, the issue which may become clearer if this allegation proceeds to the latter stages will be the actions of the chief whip and when they knew..

The recent history of that place been across the board a tendency to protect the party's reputation above the principles of natural justice..

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By *bi_AstrayTV/TS
over a year ago

Plymouth

Well we operate on innocence until proven guilty, so until he is at least charged then there is nothing really to suspend him for, as much as I'd like less tories in parliament. Even when charged, he's not guilty, so would have to be suspended on full pay until the outcome of any trial.

Anonymity for the suspect or accused in a trial is a not usual, so if charged would expect his name to be released. With the affect of a this type of allegation, there is the argument that suspects should have anonymity until found guilty.

Considering only 1.7% of this type of allegation are prosecuted in the UK there's a 98% chance he'll never be charged... and we'll never know who it was.

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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago

upton wirral

"Well we operate on innocence until proven guilty, so until he is at least charged then there is nothing really to suspend him for, as much as I'd like less tories in parliament. Even when charged, he's not guilty, so would have to be suspended on full pay until the outcome of any trial.

Considering only 1.7% of this type of allegation are prosecuted in the UK there's a 98% chance he'll never be charged... and we'll never know who it was. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Maybe a Fund raiser can be done so big ben strikes

when the M.P's name is released to the public.

Alledgedly of course .

Breggs zit

Trending on twitter now .

Nobody got the little clue to who i was suggesting .

You call yourselves political observers .

Sacre bleu !!

Another hint maybe

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If a police officer had been arrested for ra criminal offence he would have been suspended straight away.

I think the tories need to rethink this.

First sentence. Correct.

Second sentence. No not yet anyway.

Suspension of a police officer does not automatically put his/her name into the public domain. Withdrawing the whip from an MP does.

In this case the MP would cease to be a Conservative MP and sit as an independent. That would be recorded in the public domain and would automatically out him.

Remember that at the moment whatever he has or has not done is only "alleged".

He has not yet been charged, let alone convicted.

Should he be charged then I would fully support his immediate suspension.

I would take the exact same stance whatever party the MP serves.

If he wasnt an mp would they name him or is it only after you have been charged you lose your anonymity?"

Cliff Richards & Alex Salmond

Both smeared by the press before any charges were

Placed on them.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"Maybe a Fund raiser can be done so big ben strikes

when the M.P's name is released to the public.

Alledgedly of course .

Breggs zit

Apparently it's not him

Trending on twitter now .

Nobody got the little clue to who i was suggesting .

You call yourselves political observers .

Sacre bleu !!

Another hint maybe

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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

"If a police officer had been arrested for ra criminal offence he would have been suspended straight away.

I think the tories need to rethink this.

First sentence. Correct.

Second sentence. No not yet anyway.

Suspension of a police officer does not automatically put his/her name into the public domain. Withdrawing the whip from an MP does.

In this case the MP would cease to be a Conservative MP and sit as an independent. That would be recorded in the public domain and would automatically out him.

Remember that at the moment whatever he has or has not done is only "alleged".

He has not yet been charged, let alone convicted.

Should he be charged then I would fully support his immediate suspension.

I would take the exact same stance whatever party the MP serves.

If he wasnt an mp would they name him or is it only after you have been charged you lose your anonymity?

Cliff Richards & Alex Salmond

Both smeared by the press before any charges were

Placed on them."

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By *ony 2016Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield /derby cinemas

As Parliament returns , apparently the lady has asked for the MP to be named under Parliamentary privilege by either another MP or a Peer ,,,it is also reported that an agreement has been made by the Tory Whip and the MP that the MP will not imedaiately return to The Commons ,,,so we shall see if he is "named" and I am sure any ex Tory ministers in their 50's will be noted by their absence ,,, Prior to 2016 The Speaker had to let parliament know if an MP had been arrested ,,,,,but,,,,this changed because it was considered incompatible with a persons right to privacy under the European convention on human rights ,,,, __ just out of interest (and forgive my ignorance for not knowing ) but has that got anything to do with the EU ? ? If it has it may appear a little ironic if the MP turns out to be a leading brexitier

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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

"As Parliament returns , apparently the lady has asked for the MP to be named under Parliamentary privilege by either another MP or a Peer ,,,it is also reported that an agreement has been made by the Tory Whip and the MP that the MP will not imedaiately return to The Commons ,,,so we shall see if he is "named" and I am sure any ex Tory ministers in their 50's will be noted by their absence ,,, Prior to 2016 The Speaker had to let parliament know if an MP had been arrested ,,,,,but,,,,this changed because it was considered incompatible with a persons right to privacy under the European convention on human rights ,,,, __ just out of interest (and forgive my ignorance for not knowing ) but has that got anything to do with the EU ? ? If it has it may appear a little ironic if the MP turns out to be a leading brexitier "

Ironic it is then, because he is one of the loudest brexiteers.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

“Following a thorough investigation and based on all evidence made available to officers, the decision was taken that the case did not meet the evidential test and no further action will be taken”

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

"“Following a thorough investigation and based on all evidence made available to officers, the decision was taken that the case did not meet the evidential test and no further action will be taken”

Can he now be named?

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

Can he now be named?

Has the complainant been named ?

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Can he now be named?

Has the complainant been named ?

Dunno?

That's why I asked.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

Can he now be named?

Has the complainant been named ?

Dunno?

That's why I asked."

Privacy

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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago

milton keynes

Heard on the car radio charges have been dropped

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By *ovebjsMan
over a year ago

Bristol

Can he now be named?

Has the complainant been named ?

That’s always been the problem, the complainant stays anonymous while

The accused gets vilified by the press.

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By *ylonSlutTV/TS
over a year ago

Durham

Can he now be named?

Has the complainant been named ?

Well the name of the accused and complainant are pretty widely known. Although neither can named legally in this country.

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

Can he now be named?

Has the complainant been named ?

That’s always been the problem, the complainant stays anonymous while

The accused gets vilified by the press."

Which is why the whip was not removed, thereby not revealing the name of the accused and securing the anonymity of the complainant.

If the names are widely known, then that’s up to those who go looking for rumour and gossip. I’m not sure what those people gain by being able to say “I know who it is”.

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Can he now be named?

Has the complainant been named ?

That’s always been the problem, the complainant stays anonymous while

The accused gets vilified by the press."

But the accused wasmt named in this case.

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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago

milton keynes

Can he now be named?

Has the complainant been named ?

That’s always been the problem, the complainant stays anonymous while

The accused gets vilified by the press.

But the accused wasmt named in this case."

Correct but only because the whip was not withdrawn otherwise they would have been named

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By *ionelhutzMan
over a year ago

liverpool

Can he now be named?

Has the complainant been named ?

That’s always been the problem, the complainant stays anonymous while

The accused gets vilified by the press.

But the accused wasmt named in this case.

Correct but only because the whip was not withdrawn otherwise they would have been named"

Isnt one of the reasons the accused is named,is if he is guilty...other victims are more likely to come forward?

Though obviously if you have done nothing wrong.. its not great.

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By *ebbie69Couple
over a year ago

milton keynes

Can he now be named?

Has the complainant been named ?

That’s always been the problem, the complainant stays anonymous while

The accused gets vilified by the press.

But the accused wasmt named in this case.

Correct but only because the whip was not withdrawn otherwise they would have been named

Isnt one of the reasons the accused is named,is if he is guilty...other victims are more likely to come forward?

Though obviously if you have done nothing wrong.. its not great."

It's a fine line because as you say it may encourage more victims to come forward. The downside is it will condemn innocent people which would destroy their lives.

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