Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Meet Requests and Parties |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" We know they are few and far between and tend to be elusive creatures, but we are inviting applications. We are kind and considerate people in everyday circumstances- but when we get you home..." Here | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" We know they are few and far between and tend to be elusive creatures, but we are inviting applications. We are kind and considerate people in everyday circumstances- but when we get you home..." I'm a sub who is proudly owned by her Dom | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
Sorry but, have you been browsing the ALDI website?
Every woman and their aunt is submissive these days.
It's the doms which are rarer than rocking horse shit  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Submissive girls are few and far between??
Sorry but, have you been browsing the ALDI website?
Every woman and their aunt is submissive these days.
It's the doms which are rarer than rocking horse shit "Er, no, not every woman is sub. Although you might think so from the number of "Doms" who message me assuming because I say I'm kinky and am female, I must be sub, (despite my profile clearly saying I'm not). Doms are definitely not rare. Half the blokes on the site, at least, think they're Dom. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is a huge difference between thinking it and being one. " 
Even in my fantasies, I am sexually submissive but not submissive. In reality, .....  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Doms are definitely not rare. Half the blokes on the site, at least, think they're Dom." Dom women  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is a huge difference between thinking it and being one. " ah you mean Dimdoms lots of them on here mummy's boys with string a flogger and a Copy of 50 shades gawd help you girls  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You need to get yourself along to some clubs! Femsubs everywhere!" this | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is a huge difference between thinking it and being one. ah you mean Dimdoms lots of them on here mummy's boys with string a flogger and a Copy of 50 shades gawd help you girls "The 'mastas' with a workman's belt and whips and chains hangin' of 'em. My fav 
Kinky sex elevated to a pseudo' art form'
There was only once in my life I was submissive to a man. He didn't have any whips, floggers, nipple clamps or any other such props within five parsecs of him. He did not shout or handle me roughly; he didn't call me a slut, whore or slave. He spoke with me calmly and I did whatever he told me to. He had this power over me which I just could not fight | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Submissive girls are few and far between??
Sorry but, have you been browsing the ALDI website?
Every woman and their aunt is submissive these days.
It's the doms which are rarer than rocking horse shit "I'm not, not sure my aunt is either. Boom, there goes your theory! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" There was only once in my life I was submissive to a man. He didn't have any whips, floggers, nipple clamps or any other such props within five parsecs of him. He did not shout or handle me roughly; he didn't call me a slut, whore or slave. He spoke with me calmly and I did whatever he told me to. He had this power over me which I just could not fight" Sometimes it's inexplicable, but it just works. Sarah | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Doms are definitely not rare. Half the blokes on the site, at least, think they're Dom. Dom women "Dommes then. Doms are male. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Doms are definitely not rare. Half the blokes on the site, at least, think they're Dom. Dom women
Dommes then. Doms are male."Or female. Like actors are male or female. Actresses has fallen out of favour. Many people on the scene now use Dom to refer to male or female players. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Doms are definitely not rare. Half the blokes on the site, at least, think they're Dom. Dom women
Dommes then. Doms are male.
Or female.
Like actors are male or female. Actresses has fallen out of favour.
Many people on the scene now use Dom to refer to male or female players."Then he should have specified female if he didn't mean Dominants in general. Rolling his eyes because I misunderstood his non-specific comment was petulant. Personally I prefer Domme. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol" Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"D/s is a very complicated thing... but we know what it means to us... and I'm quite partial to a meatball mariana with light mayo " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Doms are definitely not rare. Half the blokes on the site, at least, think they're Dom. Dom women
Dommes then. Doms are male.
Or female.
Like actors are male or female. Actresses has fallen out of favour.
Many people on the scene now use Dom to refer to male or female players.
Then he should have specified female if he didn't mean Dominants in general. Rolling his eyes because I misunderstood his non-specific comment was petulant.
Personally I prefer Domme."I prefer Dom - and I prefer people not to make assumptions about my gender. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" consider myself to be (if were going to use labels) a dom, when a lot of people hear dom, they instantly think leather trousers, fishnet t-shirt, and a stern look on their face, but I can't remember the last time I saw that look." To be fair, I see quite alot of that look every time I go to a fetish clubs. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol" I'm a strong woman and have been a single parent. There are different levels of D/s as with everything. Submissives don't all lose free will and get told who to meet etc. I've often thought a lot of submissive men are strong career wise and you wouldn't suspect they were meeting them in everyday life. To my mind, a good Dom - will learn what his submissive does and doesn't enjoy. He will aim elements of play to her likes and try things out - safe words are always there. They aren't ever over-ridden. Play instantly stops if they are used. I'm not shagging or playing with anyone I don't want to. I don't think I'm unusual in having a mind of my own. It's all to do with how your mind is wired. I enjoy it - but don't expect everyone else too. Sarah | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" consider myself to be (if were going to use labels) a dom, when a lot of people hear dom, they instantly think leather trousers, fishnet t-shirt, and a stern look on their face, but I can't remember the last time I saw that look. To be fair, I see quite alot of that look every time I go to a fetish clubs." I'm nit going to the right places then, I do tend to see a lot of George at Asda suits though lol | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes." I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Doms are definitely not rare. Half the blokes on the site, at least, think they're Dom. Dom women
Dommes then. Doms are male.
Or female.
Like actors are male or female. Actresses has fallen out of favour.
Many people on the scene now use Dom to refer to male or female players.
Then he should have specified female if he didn't mean Dominants in general. Rolling his eyes because I misunderstood his non-specific comment was petulant.
Personally I prefer Domme.
I prefer Dom - and I prefer people not to make assumptions about my gender. "Fair enough but you don't identify as a female Dominant, I presume, so you would prefer Dom. I identify as female and prefer Domme. Every other female Dominant that I have seen or heard express a preference also uses Domme, (in writing, since it's not useful verbally), to avoid gender confusion. Sure, there can be issues when there is gender fluidity but when there isn't, like when someone is referring to female Dominants specifically, the distinction is useful. The eye-roller, apparently, was referring to female Dominants only. He used Doms, which is potentially confusing then at me when I misunderstood.
If he'd said female Doms or Dommes there would have been no misunderstanding. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Doms are definitely not rare. Half the blokes on the site, at least, think they're Dom. Dom women
Dommes then. Doms are male.
Or female.
Like actors are male or female. Actresses has fallen out of favour.
Many people on the scene now use Dom to refer to male or female players.
Then he should have specified female if he didn't mean Dominants in general. Rolling his eyes because I misunderstood his non-specific comment was petulant.
Personally I prefer Domme.
I prefer Dom - and I prefer people not to make assumptions about my gender. "Your majesty is gender neutral | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words." I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol" The man I knew never told me to do anything. He asked and I complied. And it wasn't all about sex; it could be like where we would go out for dinner or what drink I should order, or rather, he should order for me He never looked at me sternly, alway held the car door open for me, always got the chair for me, always walked on the side of the traffic on the sidewalk, always rode the escalator in front of me when coming down and behind me when going up I guess I was in awe and a little bit in love with him. He was better educated, more intelligent, wiser, fitter, taller and so calm. I did not meet him from a sex site, a swingers club or any such place. I met him in a restaurant where he had a glass of wine sent to my table I knew him for over a year and that was the most turbulent and thrilling year in my life. Just hearing his voice on the phone would make my body tremble with excitement I could not believe that a hard-nosed b**tch like me could ever be 'controlled' by anyone. It was a once in a lifetime experience which used to almost make me feel 'ashamed' enjoying He did not take anything from me; I willing gave him control. It was if I was sleep-walking the whole year | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said." I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
It's like every thread on FL ever | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Doms are definitely not rare. Half the blokes on the site, at least, think they're Dom. Dom women
Dommes then. Doms are male.
Or female.
Like actors are male or female. Actresses has fallen out of favour.
Many people on the scene now use Dom to refer to male or female players.
Then he should have specified female if he didn't mean Dominants in general. Rolling his eyes because I misunderstood his non-specific comment was petulant.
Personally I prefer Domme.
I prefer Dom - and I prefer people not to make assumptions about my gender.
Fair enough but you don't identify as a female Dominant, I presume, so you would prefer Dom.
I identify as female and prefer Domme. Every other female Dominant that I have seen or heard express a preference also uses Domme, (in writing, since it's not useful verbally), to avoid gender confusion.
Sure, there can be issues when there is gender fluidity but when there isn't, like when someone is referring to female Dominants specifically, the distinction is useful.
The eye-roller, apparently, was referring to female Dominants only. He used Doms, which is potentially confusing then at me when I misunderstood.
If he'd said female Doms or Dommes there would have been no misunderstanding."When I'm doing kink I generally identify as some kind of butch female type of human, and so usually men refer to me as 'mistress' or a 'domme'. I still prefer a gender neutral address. Politics in the scene are complicated, female dominants are usually seen as less worthy than male dominants, and I think that addressing or describing someone in a gender neutral way is good manners (just as you would say actor, waiter, firefighter, etc) until you have been told otherwise. If I was referring to a group of female dominants then I would call them just that. If I was referring to a group of male dominants I'd use the prefix male. I think it's respectful to do so. But with more and more people on the scene being really quite pansexual and fluid with their sexuality, less and less people are looking for play with a specific gender and gender is becoming really quite irrelevant most of the time, It's only really on sex focussed websites such as fabs where gender appears to be so important when it comes to kink. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it. "It was the way that you quantified it. The fact you are independent and a single mother has absolutely fuck all to do with the fact that you wouldn't enjoy being sexually submissive. Unless you think that your income and child-bearing status has anything to do with what you enjoy in bed. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol The man I knew never told me to do anything. He asked and I complied. And it wasn't all about sex; it could be like where we would go out for dinner or what drink I should order, or rather, he should order for me He never looked at me sternly, alway held the car door open for me, always got the chair for me, always walked on the side of the traffic on the sidewalk, always rode the escalator in front of me when coming down and behind me when going up I guess I was in awe and a little bit in love with him. He was better educated, more intelligent, wiser, fitter, taller and so calm. I did not meet him from a sex site, a swingers club or any such place. I met him in a restaurant where he had a glass of wine sent to my table I knew him for over a year and that was the most turbulent and thrilling year in my life. Just hearing his voice on the phone would make my body tremble with excitement I could not believe that a hard-nosed b**tch like me could ever be 'controlled' by anyone. It was a once in a lifetime experience which used to almost make me feel 'ashamed' enjoying He did not take anything from me; I willing gave him control. It was if I was sleep-walking the whole year" Ok, and this is where I don't get it. I do not class most of that as someone being Dom. I see that as being a gentleman? Opening doors and things? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
x | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
It was the way that you quantified it. The fact you are independent and a single mother has absolutely fuck all to do with the fact that you wouldn't enjoy being sexually submissive. Unless you think that your income and child-bearing status has anything to do with what you enjoy in bed."Why do you sound aggressive and feel the need to swear? I'm no better than anyone on this site. Nor do I think I am. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it. "But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent. It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*. The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable). You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" It's only really on sex focussed websites such as fabs where gender appears to be so important when it comes to kink." Your experience and view are different to mine, which is cool. It makes life interesting. In my experience female Dominants are more valued than male Dominants. Sure there are some male Dominants who disagree but their opinion isn't relevant to me because I don't seek their approval. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
It was the way that you quantified it. The fact you are independent and a single mother has absolutely fuck all to do with the fact that you wouldn't enjoy being sexually submissive. Unless you think that your income and child-bearing status has anything to do with what you enjoy in bed.
Why do you sound aggressive and feel the need to swear?
I'm no better than anyone on this site. Nor do I think I am."I'm assertive, not aggressive. I'm assertive because I'm an independant woman. Etc. Would my point have been different if I'd replaced 'fuck all' with 'nothing'? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent.
It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*.
The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable).
You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it."I did not use the word *because*. I said "I guess". | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
It was the way that you quantified it. The fact you are independent and a single mother has absolutely fuck all to do with the fact that you wouldn't enjoy being sexually submissive. Unless you think that your income and child-bearing status has anything to do with what you enjoy in bed.
Why do you sound aggressive and feel the need to swear?
I'm no better than anyone on this site. Nor do I think I am.
I'm assertive, not aggressive. I'm assertive because I'm an independant woman. Etc. Would my point have been different if I'd replaced 'fuck all' with 'nothing'?"You wouldn't of sounded so angry. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol The man I knew never told me to do anything. He asked and I complied. And it wasn't all about sex; it could be like where we would go out for dinner or what drink I should order, or rather, he should order for me He never looked at me sternly, alway held the car door open for me, always got the chair for me, always walked on the side of the traffic on the sidewalk, always rode the escalator in front of me when coming down and behind me when going up I guess I was in awe and a little bit in love with him. He was better educated, more intelligent, wiser, fitter, taller and so calm. I did not meet him from a sex site, a swingers club or any such place. I met him in a restaurant where he had a glass of wine sent to my table I knew him for over a year and that was the most turbulent and thrilling year in my life. Just hearing his voice on the phone would make my body tremble with excitement I could not believe that a hard-nosed b**tch like me could ever be 'controlled' by anyone. It was a once in a lifetime experience which used to almost make me feel 'ashamed' enjoying He did not take anything from me; I willing gave him control. It was if I was sleep-walking the whole year Ok, and this is where I don't get it. I do not class most of that as someone being Dom. I see that as being a gentleman? Opening doors and things? " Neither do I. Maybe I did not explain as well as I wanted to. He was always a gentleman; never the 'Dom' I have seen in clubs. So gentle and caring that someone else will think he was almost a pushover He never thought or expected to be thought of as a 'Master' or an alpha male. But for me, he was both I guess it is a question of compatibility and trust. I see women in clubs being 'submissive' to some man they have met just a couple of hours ago. Not knocking anyone but that I something I could not understand He did not know any 'rope tricks'. No candle wax or pyrotechnics, the type I witnessed in a club just a few days ago I know I am not explaining this very well. It was something which happened, it could only have happened with this one person in billions and it will never happen again for me | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is a huge difference between thinking it and being one.
Even in my fantasies, I am sexually submissive but not submissive. In reality, ..... "Same here! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent.
It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*.
The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable).
You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it.
I did not use the word *because*.
I said "I guess". "Same thing. You equate not being submissive with being independent and a single parent. That implies you equate being submissive with not being those things. Whether you meant it or not, your comment sounds as though you see submissive women as less independent and capable than you. That's incredibly insulting. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
It was the way that you quantified it. The fact you are independent and a single mother has absolutely fuck all to do with the fact that you wouldn't enjoy being sexually submissive. Unless you think that your income and child-bearing status has anything to do with what you enjoy in bed.
Why do you sound aggressive and feel the need to swear?
I'm no better than anyone on this site. Nor do I think I am.
I'm assertive, not aggressive. I'm assertive because I'm an independant woman. Etc. Would my point have been different if I'd replaced 'fuck all' with 'nothing'?
You wouldn't of sounded so angry.
"People get angry when you insult them or others, which is what you did. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent.
It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*.
The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable).
You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it.
I did not use the word *because*.
I said "I guess".
Same thing. You equate not being submissive with being independent and a single parent. That implies you equate being submissive with not being those things.
Whether you meant it or not, your comment sounds as though you see submissive women as less independent and capable than you. That's incredibly insulting."No it's not. "I guess" is assuming. Maybe I shouldn't 'assume' anything about myself in future seeing as you clearly know me so well? I don't feel I've insulted anyone, if you do then it's a matter of difference in opinion. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"This conversation is nicely illustrative of everything that frustrates in the "fetish scene"
It's like every thread on FL ever " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent.
It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*.
The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable).
You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it.
I did not use the word *because*.
I said "I guess".
Same thing. You equate not being submissive with being independent and a single parent. That implies you equate being submissive with not being those things.
Whether you meant it or not, your comment sounds as though you see submissive women as less independent and capable than you. That's incredibly insulting.
No it's not. "I guess" is assuming. Maybe I shouldn't 'assume' anything about myself in future seeing as you clearly know me so well?
I don't feel I've insulted anyone, if you do then it's a matter of difference in opinion. "Apparently you can't see by assuming you are not submissive because you are independent and a single parent that you are also assuming that women who are submissive can't be independent and single parents, (because otherwise, like you, they wouldn't be submissive). By making that assumption about yourself, you were also making an assumption about people not like you. That's how basic logic works. So yes, you were insulting to submissive women. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol The man I knew never told me to do anything. He asked and I complied. And it wasn't all about sex; it could be like where we would go out for dinner or what drink I should order, or rather, he should order for me He never looked at me sternly, alway held the car door open for me, always got the chair for me, always walked on the side of the traffic on the sidewalk, always rode the escalator in front of me when coming down and behind me when going up I guess I was in awe and a little bit in love with him. He was better educated, more intelligent, wiser, fitter, taller and so calm. I did not meet him from a sex site, a swingers club or any such place. I met him in a restaurant where he had a glass of wine sent to my table I knew him for over a year and that was the most turbulent and thrilling year in my life. Just hearing his voice on the phone would make my body tremble with excitement I could not believe that a hard-nosed b**tch like me could ever be 'controlled' by anyone. It was a once in a lifetime experience which used to almost make me feel 'ashamed' enjoying He did not take anything from me; I willing gave him control. It was if I was sleep-walking the whole year Ok, and this is where I don't get it. I do not class most of that as someone being Dom. I see that as being a gentleman? Opening doors and things? Neither do I. Maybe I did not explain as well as I wanted to. He was always a gentleman; never the 'Dom' I have seen in clubs. So gentle and caring that someone else will think he was almost a pushover He never thought or expected to be thought of as a 'Master' or an alpha male. But for me, he was both I guess it is a question of compatibility and trust. I see women in clubs being 'submissive' to some man they have met just a couple of hours ago. Not knocking anyone but that I something I could not understand He did not know any 'rope tricks'. No candle wax or pyrotechnics, the type I witnessed in a club just a few days ago I know I am not explaining this very well. It was something which happened, it could only have happened with this one person in billions and it will never happen again for me" That sounds pretty damn good to me | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent.
It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*.
The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable).
You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it.
I did not use the word *because*.
I said "I guess".
Same thing. You equate not being submissive with being independent and a single parent. That implies you equate being submissive with not being those things.
Whether you meant it or not, your comment sounds as though you see submissive women as less independent and capable than you. That's incredibly insulting.
No it's not. "I guess" is assuming. Maybe I shouldn't 'assume' anything about myself in future seeing as you clearly know me so well?
I don't feel I've insulted anyone, if you do then it's a matter of difference in opinion. "as a submissive woman i can tell you i wasn't insulted at all....thought you might like to know that as it seems the only people insulted by it were Dom/Domme women. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I AM OUTRAGED." It's valentines you can't be OUTRAGED on Valentines day,relax and feel the love | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Submissive girls are few and far between??
Sorry but, have you been browsing the ALDI website?
Every woman and their aunt is submissive these days.
It's the doms which are rarer than rocking horse shit "Fully agree, real Doms are neigh on impossible to find | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent.
It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*.
The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable).
You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it.
I did not use the word *because*.
I said "I guess".
Same thing. You equate not being submissive with being independent and a single parent. That implies you equate being submissive with not being those things.
Whether you meant it or not, your comment sounds as though you see submissive women as less independent and capable than you. That's incredibly insulting.
No it's not. "I guess" is assuming. Maybe I shouldn't 'assume' anything about myself in future seeing as you clearly know me so well?
I don't feel I've insulted anyone, if you do then it's a matter of difference in opinion.
as a submissive woman i can tell you i wasn't insulted at all....thought you might like to know that as it seems the only people insulted by it were Dom/Domme women."One submissive woman does not speak for all of them. As for who did find it insulting, you can't know that either because you can only assess that based on who spoke up about it. Also, I think I recall that WH switches, so that would disprove your theory. Perhaps you aren't offended by the suggestion that you can't be an independent woman, because otherwise you wouldn't be submissive but I know subs that would be. And why should Dominants not be annoyed about subs being insulted? Presumably a lot of us will know subs we care about. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Submissive girls are few and far between??
Sorry but, have you been browsing the ALDI website?
Every woman and their aunt is submissive these days.
It's the doms which are rarer than rocking horse shit
Fully agree, real Doms are neigh on impossible to find"Agreed. Many so-called doms aren't very stable, and if you're not careful you'll get saddled with them | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent.
It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*.
The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable).
You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it.
I did not use the word *because*.
I said "I guess".
Same thing. You equate not being submissive with being independent and a single parent. That implies you equate being submissive with not being those things.
Whether you meant it or not, your comment sounds as though you see submissive women as less independent and capable than you. That's incredibly insulting.
No it's not. "I guess" is assuming. Maybe I shouldn't 'assume' anything about myself in future seeing as you clearly know me so well?
I don't feel I've insulted anyone, if you do then it's a matter of difference in opinion. "No, it's you not understanding logic and what you actually said. By assuming something about yourself, you were also assuming something about people not like yourself. If you can't understand that there's no point continuing to try to explain it. I can tell you, however, there are plenty of subs out there who are just as independent as you, so that's not the reason you aren't submissive. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol The man I knew never told me to do anything. He asked and I complied. And it wasn't all about sex; it could be like where we would go out for dinner or what drink I should order, or rather, he should order for me He never looked at me sternly, alway held the car door open for me, always got the chair for me, always walked on the side of the traffic on the sidewalk, always rode the escalator in front of me when coming down and behind me when going up I guess I was in awe and a little bit in love with him. He was better educated, more intelligent, wiser, fitter, taller and so calm. I did not meet him from a sex site, a swingers club or any such place. I met him in a restaurant where he had a glass of wine sent to my table I knew him for over a year and that was the most turbulent and thrilling year in my life. Just hearing his voice on the phone would make my body tremble with excitement I could not believe that a hard-nosed b**tch like me could ever be 'controlled' by anyone. It was a once in a lifetime experience which used to almost make me feel 'ashamed' enjoying He did not take anything from me; I willing gave him control. It was if I was sleep-walking the whole year" Same here, just one man has had the same effect on me. It lasted for 3yrs and only ended when he sadly got cancer at the age of 26 and died. I would have done anything he wanted - I have no idea why, I worshiped him and did anything he wanted willingly, we had a great time together and great sex. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent.
It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*.
The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable).
You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it.
I did not use the word *because*.
I said "I guess".
Same thing. You equate not being submissive with being independent and a single parent. That implies you equate being submissive with not being those things.
Whether you meant it or not, your comment sounds as though you see submissive women as less independent and capable than you. That's incredibly insulting.
No it's not. "I guess" is assuming. Maybe I shouldn't 'assume' anything about myself in future seeing as you clearly know me so well?
I don't feel I've insulted anyone, if you do then it's a matter of difference in opinion.
as a submissive woman i can tell you i wasn't insulted at all....thought you might like to know that as it seems the only people insulted by it were Dom/Domme women."Thank you. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent.
It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*.
The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable).
You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it.
I did not use the word *because*.
I said "I guess".
Same thing. You equate not being submissive with being independent and a single parent. That implies you equate being submissive with not being those things.
Whether you meant it or not, your comment sounds as though you see submissive women as less independent and capable than you. That's incredibly insulting.
No it's not. "I guess" is assuming. Maybe I shouldn't 'assume' anything about myself in future seeing as you clearly know me so well?
I don't feel I've insulted anyone, if you do then it's a matter of difference in opinion.
No, it's you not understanding logic and what you actually said.
By assuming something about yourself, you were also assuming something about people not like yourself.
If you can't understand that there's no point continuing to try to explain it.
I can tell you, however, there are plenty of subs out there who are just as independent as you, so that's not the reason you aren't submissive."Your not explaining anything, your just having a rant. How does assuming something about 'myself' involve others? Nowhere have I said anything about anybody else. I cannot state this enough. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent.
It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*.
The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable).
You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it.
I did not use the word *because*.
I said "I guess".
Same thing. You equate not being submissive with being independent and a single parent. That implies you equate being submissive with not being those things.
Whether you meant it or not, your comment sounds as though you see submissive women as less independent and capable than you. That's incredibly insulting.
No it's not. "I guess" is assuming. Maybe I shouldn't 'assume' anything about myself in future seeing as you clearly know me so well?
I don't feel I've insulted anyone, if you do then it's a matter of difference in opinion.
as a submissive woman i can tell you i wasn't insulted at all....thought you might like to know that as it seems the only people insulted by it were Dom/Domme women.
One submissive woman does not speak for all of them.
As for who did find it insulting, you can't know that either because you can only assess that based on who spoke up about it.
Also, I think I recall that WH switches, so that would disprove your theory.
Perhaps you aren't offended by the suggestion that you can't be an independent woman, because otherwise you wouldn't be submissive but I know subs that would be.
And why should Dominants not be annoyed about subs being insulted? Presumably a lot of us will know subs we care about."oh for gods sake give it a rest, you would argue with your own reflection at times! i was giving one person a bit of support and an alternative take on what she originally posted because you and wasphunter (although mainly you) have decided to hound her this morning. i never said i spoke for all subs but you seem to think your opinion is better than mine so perhaps we all voted you as Domme Queen in some secret meeting? she never said she wasn't submissive because she was independent, she said she didnt understand it because she was independent. i feel there is a subtle difference there, clearly you dont. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent.
It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*.
The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable).
You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it.
I did not use the word *because*.
I said "I guess".
Same thing. You equate not being submissive with being independent and a single parent. That implies you equate being submissive with not being those things.
Whether you meant it or not, your comment sounds as though you see submissive women as less independent and capable than you. That's incredibly insulting.
No it's not. "I guess" is assuming. Maybe I shouldn't 'assume' anything about myself in future seeing as you clearly know me so well?
I don't feel I've insulted anyone, if you do then it's a matter of difference in opinion.
No, it's you not understanding logic and what you actually said.
By assuming something about yourself, you were also assuming something about people not like yourself.
If you can't understand that there's no point continuing to try to explain it.
I can tell you, however, there are plenty of subs out there who are just as independent as you, so that's not the reason you aren't submissive.
Your not explaining anything, your just having a rant.
How does assuming something about 'myself' involve others? Nowhere have I said anything about anybody else. I cannot state this enough."I have explained. By saying you assume you are not submissive BECAUSE you are independent you are saying you assume being independent is what makes you not submissive. The flipside of that, whether you state it or not, is that you assume anyone who is submissive cannot be independent. If they were independent, they wouldn't be submissive because you being independent is (you assume) the reason you are not submissive. If I said I have blue eyes because I am blonde, that is automatically saying I believe anyone who is not blonde cannot have blue eyes. That is how making a statement about oneself can also be making an implied statement about others. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" We know they are few and far between and tend to be elusive creatures, but we are inviting applications. We are kind and considerate people in everyday circumstances- but when we get you home..." OMG I'm scared can I come home with you xx      | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent.
It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*.
The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable).
You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it.
I did not use the word *because*.
I said "I guess".
Same thing. You equate not being submissive with being independent and a single parent. That implies you equate being submissive with not being those things.
Whether you meant it or not, your comment sounds as though you see submissive women as less independent and capable than you. That's incredibly insulting.
No it's not. "I guess" is assuming. Maybe I shouldn't 'assume' anything about myself in future seeing as you clearly know me so well?
I don't feel I've insulted anyone, if you do then it's a matter of difference in opinion.
as a submissive woman i can tell you i wasn't insulted at all....thought you might like to know that as it seems the only people insulted by it were Dom/Domme women.
One submissive woman does not speak for all of them.
As for who did find it insulting, you can't know that either because you can only assess that based on who spoke up about it.
Also, I think I recall that WH switches, so that would disprove your theory.
Perhaps you aren't offended by the suggestion that you can't be an independent woman, because otherwise you wouldn't be submissive but I know subs that would be.
And why should Dominants not be annoyed about subs being insulted? Presumably a lot of us will know subs we care about.
oh for gods sake give it a rest, you would argue with your own reflection at times!
i was giving one person a bit of support and an alternative take on what she originally posted because you and wasphunter (although mainly you) have decided to hound her this morning.
i never said i spoke for all subs but you seem to think your opinion is better than mine so perhaps we all voted you as Domme Queen in some secret meeting?
she never said she wasn't submissive because she was independent, she said she didnt understand it because she was independent. i feel there is a subtle difference there, clearly you dont.
"It takes two to argue. I'm responding to responses to my comments. I'm not hounding anyone. She basically said independent women can't be sub. That's insulting. And uh yeah, you did speak for all subs when you said you don't find it offensive so only Dom(me)s do. I'll certainly argue when I disagree with someone and they keep responding to me saying I'm wrong. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" she never said she wasn't submissive because she was independent, she said she didnt understand it because she was independent. i feel there is a subtle difference there, clearly you dont." She said she doesn't understand it AND she couldn't be submissive because she's been an independent woman and a single parent for so many years. She said she couldn't do it because she's independent, not that she doesn't understand it because she's independent. The implication is anyone who can do it can't be independent. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent.
It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*.
The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable).
You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it.
I did not use the word *because*.
I said "I guess".
Same thing. You equate not being submissive with being independent and a single parent. That implies you equate being submissive with not being those things.
Whether you meant it or not, your comment sounds as though you see submissive women as less independent and capable than you. That's incredibly insulting.
No it's not. "I guess" is assuming. Maybe I shouldn't 'assume' anything about myself in future seeing as you clearly know me so well?
I don't feel I've insulted anyone, if you do then it's a matter of difference in opinion.
as a submissive woman i can tell you i wasn't insulted at all....thought you might like to know that as it seems the only people insulted by it were Dom/Domme women.
One submissive woman does not speak for all of them.
As for who did find it insulting, you can't know that either because you can only assess that based on who spoke up about it.
Also, I think I recall that WH switches, so that would disprove your theory.
Perhaps you aren't offended by the suggestion that you can't be an independent woman, because otherwise you wouldn't be submissive but I know subs that would be.
And why should Dominants not be annoyed about subs being insulted? Presumably a lot of us will know subs we care about.
oh for gods sake give it a rest, you would argue with your own reflection at times!
i was giving one person a bit of support and an alternative take on what she originally posted because you and wasphunter (although mainly you) have decided to hound her this morning.
i never said i spoke for all subs but you seem to think your opinion is better than mine so perhaps we all voted you as Domme Queen in some secret meeting?
she never said she wasn't submissive because she was independent, she said she didnt understand it because she was independent. i feel there is a subtle difference there, clearly you dont.
It takes two to argue. I'm responding to responses to my comments.
I'm not hounding anyone. She basically said independent women can't be sub. That's insulting.
And uh yeah, you did speak for all subs when you said you don't find it offensive so only Dom(me)s do.
I'll certainly argue when I disagree with someone and they keep responding to me saying I'm wrong."i said as a submissive woman I didnt find it insulting...not WE didnt find it insulting so speaking for myself, not a group of people as a whole but perhaps you are too committed to the bit to read that difference as well? i said that the only people who had found it insulting were those who were identifying as Dom/me, again i didnt say ALL the Dom/mmes were insulted by it, i gve the evidence as it was on this thread but again that doesnt fit your argument so we'll just gloss over that it as well shall we? how come when i say something i am speaking for everyone but when you say it it's just you? she didnt say that but as you like to have the last word i am bowing out now. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" she never said she wasn't submissive because she was independent, she said she didnt understand it because she was independent. i feel there is a subtle difference there, clearly you dont. She said she doesn't understand it AND she couldn't be submissive because she's been an independent woman and a single parent for so many years. She said she couldn't do it because she's independent, not that she doesn't understand it because she's independent. The implication is anyone who can do it can't be independent." the implication as you see it...ou cant talk for everyone you know, i keep getting told this | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol The man I knew never told me to do anything. He asked and I complied. And it wasn't all about sex; it could be like where we would go out for dinner or what drink I should order, or rather, he should order for me He never looked at me sternly, alway held the car door open for me, always got the chair for me, always walked on the side of the traffic on the sidewalk, always rode the escalator in front of me when coming down and behind me when going up I guess I was in awe and a little bit in love with him. He was better educated, more intelligent, wiser, fitter, taller and so calm. I did not meet him from a sex site, a swingers club or any such place. I met him in a restaurant where he had a glass of wine sent to my table I knew him for over a year and that was the most turbulent and thrilling year in my life. Just hearing his voice on the phone would make my body tremble with excitement I could not believe that a hard-nosed b**tch like me could ever be 'controlled' by anyone. It was a once in a lifetime experience which used to almost make me feel 'ashamed' enjoying He did not take anything from me; I willing gave him control. It was if I was sleep-walking the whole year Same here, just one man has had the same effect on me. It lasted for 3yrs and only ended when he sadly got cancer at the age of 26 and died. I would have done anything he wanted - I have no idea why, I worshiped him and did anything he wanted willingly, we had a great time together and great sex." I am very sorry that he passed away so young. You know how it feels with just that one person in the whole world He entered my life unexpectedly and left in exactly the same manner. One day he was there, the next day he had left leaving just a message for me. But the strange thing is that I am neither sad nor hurt. I have had relationships where I have been cheated on which really hurt badly, but not this. He neither promised me anything nor extracted any promises from me. The future was never discussed He has left me with very pleasant memories which still make me 'tingle' | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
-Matt | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I honestly don't get all this Dom sub stuff. Whilst a like a guy to take the lead sexually to start us off.. . I couldn't think of anything worse that being told what I can or can't do. Who I can or can't meet and stuff like that. But I guess that's from being a independent woman and single parent for so many years lol Plenty of sexually submissive women are independent women and single parents. Being sexually submissive isn't any kind of a weakness or anything to look down on. It's not your kink, that's fine but don't try to suggest women that do enjoy being submissive aren't strong, independent, capable women. They don't need to be told what to do. They just enjoy giving up control sometimes. I said I don't understand it. I did not suggest anyone else was anything. Don't try and twist my words. I'm not twisting your words at all. You suggested you don't like relinquishing control because you are an independent woman and a single parent. That's pretty insulting to submissive women, as if they can't be independent women and single parents if they like giving up control. Go back and read your own comment because that's exactly what you said. I have not insulted anyone. I have not said anything about anyone else. It was a view about myself and I couldn't do it.
But you didn't only say you can't do it. You said you can't do it *because* you are an independent woman and a single parent.
It reads I can't do this *because I am this way*.
The implication is that everyone who does do it is not that way, (i.e. not independent and capable).
You can't do it, fine but it's not because you are independent. You just aren't into it.
I did not use the word *because*.
I said "I guess".
Same thing. You equate not being submissive with being independent and a single parent. That implies you equate being submissive with not being those things.
Whether you meant it or not, your comment sounds as though you see submissive women as less independent and capable than you. That's incredibly insulting.
No it's not. "I guess" is assuming. Maybe I shouldn't 'assume' anything about myself in future seeing as you clearly know me so well?
I don't feel I've insulted anyone, if you do then it's a matter of difference in opinion.
as a submissive woman i can tell you i wasn't insulted at all....thought you might like to know that as it seems the only people insulted by it were Dom/Domme women.
One submissive woman does not speak for all of them.
As for who did find it insulting, you can't know that either because you can only assess that based on who spoke up about it.
Also, I think I recall that WH switches, so that would disprove your theory.
Perhaps you aren't offended by the suggestion that you can't be an independent woman, because otherwise you wouldn't be submissive but I know subs that would be.
And why should Dominants not be annoyed about subs being insulted? Presumably a lot of us will know subs we care about.
oh for gods sake give it a rest, you would argue with your own reflection at times!
i was giving one person a bit of support and an alternative take on what she originally posted because you and wasphunter (although mainly you) have decided to hound her this morning.
i never said i spoke for all subs but you seem to think your opinion is better than mine so perhaps we all voted you as Domme Queen in some secret meeting?
she never said she wasn't submissive because she was independent, she said she didnt understand it because she was independent. i feel there is a subtle difference there, clearly you dont.
It takes two to argue. I'm responding to responses to my comments.
I'm not hounding anyone. She basically said independent women can't be sub. That's insulting.
And uh yeah, you did speak for all subs when you said you don't find it offensive so only Dom(me)s do.
I'll certainly argue when I disagree with someone and they keep responding to me saying I'm wrong.
i said as a submissive woman I didnt find it insulting...not WE didnt find it insulting so speaking for myself, not a group of people as a whole but perhaps you are too committed to the bit to read that difference as well?
i said that the only people who had found it insulting were those who were identifying as Dom/me, again i didnt say ALL the Dom/mmes were insulted by it, i gve the evidence as it was on this thread but again that doesnt fit your argument so we'll just gloss over that it as well shall we?
how come when i say something i am speaking for everyone but when you say it it's just you?
she didnt say that but as you like to have the last word i am bowing out now."You said because you didn't find it insulting it seems only Dom(me)s found it insulting. To say that, you're assuming all subs didn't find it insulting because you didn't. And as I said, I'm not sure WH identifies as purely Dom so they could well be speaking from a sub standpoint. For that matter, I've tried subbing. I didn't enjoy it but I did do it so even I can speak from a sub viewpoint. I've done it therefore I can't be independent? I think not. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" she never said she wasn't submissive because she was independent, she said she didnt understand it because she was independent. i feel there is a subtle difference there, clearly you dont. She said she doesn't understand it AND she couldn't be submissive because she's been an independent woman and a single parent for so many years. She said she couldn't do it because she's independent, not that she doesn't understand it because she's independent. The implication is anyone who can do it can't be independent. the implication as you see it...ou cant talk for everyone you know, i keep getting told this "No, that's the implication. That's how logic works, it's a mathematical thing. As with my example about eye colour, the assumption about the reason for not being submissive also makes an assumption about people who are submissive. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"i said that the only people who had found it insulting were those who were identifying as Dom/me, again i didnt say ALL the Dom/mmes were insulted by it, i gve the evidence as it was on this thread but again that doesnt fit your argument so we'll just gloss over that it as well shall we?" I found it insulting and I'm an independent female-bodied person who is submissive some of the time. So yeah. It wasn't just dominant types that found it insulting on this thread. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Whether wasphunter identifies as a switch or not, on this thread she was discussing her being a Dom (and her wanting to identify as the masculine not the feminine version). Hope that clears my post up a bit for some. " Actually I quite clearly said that I identify as female bodied when I top most of the time, I just generally think that gender-neutral terms are preferable and more respectful. As a submissive, female-bodied person I found it insulting. As a dominant, female-bodied person I found it insulting. As an independent person I found it insulting. And I found it insulting on behalf of my friends who are single mothers and submissive. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"This really is my last word on this as I have shit to do today but as I seem to have been misquoted I'll copy and paste what I actually wrote again to prove my point. ............. as a submissive woman i can tell you i wasn't insulted at all....thought you might like to know that as it seems the only people insulted by it were Dom/Domme women. ............. Quite clearly I state that this was my personal opinion on the original post made by said poster,not once did I state that because I wasn't insulted no other sub would be. I also quite clearly stated that the only people that seemed to be offended were Dom/Domme women. Perhaps that is slightly ambiguous but I'd argue it was clear I meant those who were insulted on here. Whether wasphunter identifies as a switch or not, on this thread she was discussing her being a Dom (and her wanting to identify as the masculine not the feminine version). Hope that clears my post up a bit for some. " Also my preferred pronoun is 'they'. Thank you very much for your courtesy in the future. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"i said that the only people who had found it insulting were those who were identifying as Dom/me, again i didnt say ALL the Dom/mmes were insulted by it, i gve the evidence as it was on this thread but again that doesnt fit your argument so we'll just gloss over that it as well shall we? I found it insulting and I'm an independent female-bodied person who is submissive some of the time. So yeah. It wasn't just dominant types that found it insulting on this thread." but equally not everyone found it insulting so therefore this all encompassing 'implication' isnt there, it is subjective and down to the individual to read things into it as they see fit based on their own experiences, perceptions, insecurities etc....THAT is my point....it isnt logical that there was an implied insult because it isnt logical that everybody read the same implication in the post. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"This really is my last word on this as I have shit to do today but as I seem to have been misquoted I'll copy and paste what I actually wrote again to prove my point. ............. as a submissive woman i can tell you i wasn't insulted at all....thought you might like to know that as it seems the only people insulted by it were Dom/Domme women. ............. Quite clearly I state that this was my personal opinion on the original post made by said poster,not once did I state that because I wasn't insulted no other sub would be. I also quite clearly stated that the only people that seemed to be offended were Dom/Domme women. Perhaps that is slightly ambiguous but I'd argue it was clear I meant those who were insulted on here. Whether wasphunter identifies as a switch or not, on this thread she was discussing her being a Dom (and her wanting to identify as the masculine not the feminine version). Hope that clears my post up a bit for some. Also my preferred pronoun is 'they'. Thank you very much for your courtesy in the future." it shall be noted for any future interaction or quoting purposes | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"i said that the only people who had found it insulting were those who were identifying as Dom/me, again i didnt say ALL the Dom/mmes were insulted by it, i gve the evidence as it was on this thread but again that doesnt fit your argument so we'll just gloss over that it as well shall we? I found it insulting and I'm an independent female-bodied person who is submissive some of the time. So yeah. It wasn't just dominant types that found it insulting on this thread. but equally not everyone found it insulting so therefore this all encompassing 'implication' isnt there, it is subjective and down to the individual to read things into it as they see fit based on their own experiences, perceptions, insecurities etc....THAT is my point....it isnt logical that there was an implied insult because it isnt logical that everybody read the same implication in the post. " No, but words mean certain things. If the intent wasn't there then that's fair enough - but forums utilise the written word and so accuracy is required. The statement as it was written implies certain things, hence why people were insulted by it. If people aren't reading what was *intended* then that was the fault of the author for not writing more clearly. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Thank f**k I am not into the 'BDSM' scene. I'd probably be dead by the time I get to grips with the terminology, the 'contracts' and the infighting" Oh if you go to a club or a munch then it's all pretty friendly. People just do what they do. It's online/forums that are cringy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Makes me sad that BDSM or D/s threads turn out like this. " They always seem to be more about oneupmanship than helping people out, don't they? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Makes me sad that BDSM or D/s threads turn out like this. They always seem to be more about oneupmanship than helping people out, don't they?" Just very narrow minded, judgemental, argumentative and dull. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Thank f**k I am not into the 'BDSM' scene. I'd probably be dead by the time I get to grips with the terminology, the 'contracts' and the infighting" TBF, I don't see any of this kind of stuff on the scene. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Makes me sad that BDSM or D/s threads turn out like this. They always seem to be more about oneupmanship than helping people out, don't they? Just very narrow minded, judgemental, argumentative and dull. " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Doms are definitely not rare. Half the blokes on the site, at least, think they're Dom. Dom women
Dommes then. Doms are male.
Or female.
Like actors are male or female. Actresses has fallen out of favour.
Many people on the scene now use Dom to refer to male or female players.
Then he should have specified female if he didn't mean Dominants in general. Rolling his eyes because I misunderstood his non-specific comment was petulant.
Personally I prefer Domme."Petulant? Why don't you try responding without the cuntish "Er, no" next time | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
