FabSwingers.com forum: whats the world coming to?

By *ovedupstill OP Couple
over a year ago

mullinwire

meant to post about this the other day, but kept forgetting.

wierd fella on a train platform put his hand on a womans shoulder and told her he loved her (thats the news report, i have no further details other than these) and he has been charged with common assault.

since when has touching someonenon intimately been common assault?

where has the age of telling someone to fuck off gone?

no wonder i hate leaving my front door most days

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There's a world of difference between tapping someone on the shoulder and asking for the time and touching a total stranger to tell her you love her. She clearly felt threatened by this man and he should have contained his feelings and kept them to himself unless given a clear sign by her that she wanted him to make contact with her.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We live in a world of paranoia and fear these days and what 20 years ago would have been passed off as a conversation with her friends as 'some nutter tapped me on the shoulder and told me he loved me' is now seen as a threat and reported to the police.

That's is my interpretation of what the OP is getting at.

When I was a kid, there used to be a guy who rode the local busses dressed as an Al Capone type gangster, complete with violin case and spats.

He would mither anyone that dared sit near him and tell them he had a gun or was off to pop someone.

I assume if he did, no one ever caught him, cos he still made the bus most evenings.

As a kid he fascinated me and none of the adults seemed phased by him.

The guy obviously had 'issues' as did the guy on the train platform, yet back then he wasn't perceived as a threat.

If you told someone you had a gun these days, there would be an armed response unit getting on at the next stop !

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London

"meant to post about this the other day, but kept forgetting.

since when has touching someonenon intimately been common assault?

where has the age of telling someone to fuck off gone?

no wonder i hate leaving my front door most days"

It may seem strange to you but common assault can be defined as "causing the perception of danger"...simply put he frightened her and she felt threatened.

Overreaction? Possibly to you and I but it doesn't alter the fact of how she felt: ergo...common assault.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe this happened at midnight on an otherwise desertrd playform?

Easy to assume he's a harmless nuttrr. Just as easy to assume he's far from harmless...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes no doubt what was reported was a guy touched a woman on the shoulder and told her he loved her.

But obviously she felt threatened, she felt frightened. You don't know what kind of expression this guy had on his face, you don't how menacing he was, she obviously felt in danger. The fact that he was charged with common assault was because he didn't do anything else than touch her, but you don't know whether there was intention to do more.

I doubt it would have been as blase as reported in a newspaper and therefore if this guy was a threat to someone then he should have been charged.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One person's perception of danger is very different to another's.

Some people are more capable to protect themselves physically as well as mentally perceived and real dangers.

One cannot really appreciate how that woman felt unless one were in her shoes at that moment in time.

IMHO.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" One cannot really appreciate how that woman felt unless one were in her shoes at that moment in time.

IMHO.

Its because I was in her shoes that set her off in the first place...

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

King's Crustacean

It's a pretty pointless exercise analysing something we didn't witness first hand with each poster saying - maybe he meant this maybe he meant that maybe she did this when she should have done that.

She was right to report it. If he had raped, maimed or killed someone later that night everyone of us would say , 'Why didn't that woman report him?'

I am the type that will talk to strangers but I don't want touching intimately by anyone I haven't welcomed 'in'.

To those who call it paranoia , I take it your advice to your children is...... 'If a stranger talks, or touches you - just ignore it. It's friendly and you'd be wrong to object. Don't look for the help of the police or any kind of safety' Just learn to put up with it.

She was right to report it. If he's done nothing then he won't suffer for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" She was right to report it. If he's done nothing then he won't suffer for it."

Almost Granny...

I was in a big, busy. supermarket one Saturday...

A little girl (about 3) was clearly lost and sobbing her heart out... Noone went near her...

I picked her up and walked slowly towards customer services to have an announcement made...

The resulting debacle between a terrified mother and security could have gone either of two ways...

I was lucky not to end up on a register...

Will it stop me doing it again? Hell no...!! But this is a strange world we live in...

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By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield

"It's a pretty pointless exercise analysing something we didn't witness first hand with each poster saying - maybe he meant this maybe he meant that maybe she did this when she should have done that.

She was right to report it. If he had raped, maimed or killed someone later that night everyone of us would say , 'Why didn't that woman report him?'

I am the type that will talk to strangers but I don't want touching intimately by anyone I haven't welcomed 'in'.

She was right to report it. If he's done nothing then he won't suffer for it."

They say that most sex offenders begin with more minor offences like flashing before they escalate to active and violent behaviour. So she did the right thing.

Factor in the surprisingly high number of people who have been sexually assaulted or abused and you have no idea if this woman has been a victim of more violent crime before.

Indecent exposure is only an offence if the victim felt offended/threatened by it. I have reported two cases to the police which disturbed me more by the fact of not knowing who the next victim would be then by actually seeing some pathetic exhibitionist with his knob out in a public place! I have some friends who would be very disturbed and affected by seeing a flasher or by having a man invading their body and telling them something intimate. It would bring back deeply traumatic memories and damage hard won self esteem and confidence.

She did the right thing.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

King's Crustacean

Why pick her up and walk away with her ? Risky for you.

You could have alerted store officials

or stood with her and asked someone else to get you security

or followed her till she found her mum or her mum found her

or taken her by the hand to the till

or asked someone to walk with you to the till while you did it.

I think your act was kind but you put yourself at risk.

You assume no one was aware of her and did what decent people do.

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By *habsMan
over a year ago

Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex

"meant to post about this the other day, but kept forgetting.

since when has touching someonenon intimately been common assault?

where has the age of telling someone to fuck off gone?

no wonder i hate leaving my front door most days

It may seem strange to you but common assault can be defined as "causing the perception of danger"...simply put he frightened her and she felt threatened.

Overreaction? Possibly to you and I but it doesn't alter the fact of how she felt: ergo...common assault.

So in theory, knowingly leaving an upen tub of mushrooms next to food belonging to someone who is fatally allergic to mushrooms could fall under "causing the perception of danger", ergo "Common Assault" ?

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By *olly Gentle GiantMan
over a year ago

Glenrothes

I think if the guy had had simply said "excuse me" and started chatting there is no problem even if within the rules of respect he went on to say she was attractive etc.

our laws in scotland are different so I'm not up to speed with english law but FWIW Common Assault is defined under Section 39 Criminal Justice Act as "any act which recklessly or intentionally causes another to apprehend immediate unlawful violence"

So if you are angry and shake your fist at someone and they take that as a threat, the offence has been committed.

my understanding is that Common Assault is traditionally applied where there is no injury or the injury is trivial.

but i think the crucial bit here is the tap on the shoulder - implies he approached from the rear so she was probably startled/got a fright - if he'd walked up to her from the front she would have seen him approach.

put yourself in the place of the woman - if it was at night, she was alone in a dimly light platform, was was tapped from behind with "I love you", her perception may have been the guy was intending to rob her, assault hr, rape her etc.

So if she "apprehended" (ie pereceived)a risk of loss/injury, thats probably why he was charged

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By *empting Devil.Woman
over a year ago

Sheffield

"meant to post about this the other day, but kept forgetting.

since when has touching someonenon intimately been common assault?

where has the age of telling someone to fuck off gone?

no wonder i hate leaving my front door most days

It may seem strange to you but common assault can be defined as "causing the perception of danger"...simply put he frightened her and she felt threatened.

Overreaction? Possibly to you and I but it doesn't alter the fact of how she felt: ergo...common assault.

As I stated in my above post, in legal terms it is not perception of danger but if the victim felt threatened/offended/distressed by something that tips it over from an anecdote (I saw a couple going at it like eveready bunnies in the park yesterday) to an offence (I was with the kids and my granny and we saw two perverts doing sexual acts in the park yesterday! It really upset the kids and I felt sick and can't get the filthy image out of my head).

The fact that in legal terms its called an offence is not a coincidence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think that all buildings should have a sign above the door stating 'May contain nuts!' To cover their arse from the 'sue you sir!' Brigade.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why pick her up and walk away with her ? Risky for you.

You could have alerted store officials

or stood with her and asked someone else to get you security

or followed her till she found her mum or her mum found her

or taken her by the hand to the till

or asked someone to walk with you to the till while you did it.

I think your act was kind but you put yourself at risk.

You assume no one was aware of her and did what decent people do.

Youre quite right Granny...

There are many alternatives I could have chosen...

My first thought was to calm the child by picking her up and talking reassuringly to her... She calmed down immediately...

Secondly I walked slowly so that a frantic mother could easilly see and catch up with me...

My point is that it is a curious world we live in where I have to risk assess a normal reaction to wish to help a sobbing toddler and a frantic mother...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why pick her up and walk away with her ? Risky for you.

You could have alerted store officials

or stood with her and asked someone else to get you security

or followed her till she found her mum or her mum found her

or taken her by the hand to the till

or asked someone to walk with you to the till while you did it.

I think your act was kind but you put yourself at risk.

You assume no one was aware of her and did what decent people do.

Youre quite right Granny...

There are many alternatives I could have chosen...

My first thought was to calm the child by picking her up and talking reassuringly to her... She calmed down immediately...

Secondly I walked slowly so that a frantic mother could easilly see and catch up with me...

My point is that it is a curious world we live in where I have to risk assess a normal reaction to wish to help a sobbing toddler and a frantic mother..."

it is a very curious world i would have done exactly as u have and have to say have done many a time being a woman it seems more acceptable by society but these days only mildly. i agree as now as appose to teachers being able to comfort children they r no longer allowed to hug a child that is upset even though we send our children to school at four most get upset at some point and we accept the teacher to look after them. the law has decided this is inapproriate so yes i think world has gone crazy. adults more worried with covering there arse x

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

King's Crustacean

covering their arse !

I should hope so.......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If a guy did to me what the OP said, firstly I would ask him if he was part of the 'God squad' ... then whatever the answer, I'd tell him to go away.

If I see a small lost child in distress, I usually crouch down to their level and talk to them till mum turns up... they're usualy not too far away

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"meant to post about this the other day, but kept forgetting.

since when has touching someonenon intimately been common assault?

where has the age of telling someone to fuck off gone?

no wonder i hate leaving my front door most days

It may seem strange to you but common assault can be defined as "causing the perception of danger"...simply put he frightened her and she felt threatened.

Overreaction? Possibly to you and I but it doesn't alter the fact of how she felt: ergo...common assault.

only sporadically.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" She was right to report it. If he's done nothing then he won't suffer for it.

Almost Granny...

I was in a big, busy. supermarket one Saturday...

A little girl (about 3) was clearly lost and sobbing her heart out... Noone went near her...

I picked her up and walked slowly towards customer services to have an announcement made...

The resulting debacle between a terrified mother and security could have gone either of two ways...

I was lucky not to end up on a register...

Will it stop me doing it again? Hell no...!! But this is a strange world we live in..."

Not being funny here, but, you maybe felt you were doing 'the right thing' at the time, but tbh, my two boys wander away from me all the time in the supermarket, (separate directions, one towards the toys and the other towards the sweeties, so its hard to cgjase after the two of them) and if i turned into an aisle and saw one of them in a strange guys arms, that guy would get decked first and questions asked later!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When your child goes missing, even for a few minutes, terror runs through your head. I think you did leave yourself open to misinterpretation by picking her up. A few reassuring words and a request for someone nearby to get security would have been more prudent.

I can understand how the woman in the ops post might have felt. It would have shaken me up.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

If that is common assault then we all best be careful who you bump into accidently in a pub/ shop.

For me it might have freaked me out but I don't see how you get from a man tapping someone on the shoulder to him being a rapist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nobody used that word,

but ayhoo, without being there noone can possibly read his intent.... still wouldn't have liked it myself

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

No, you are right, they didn't use the word rapist but they did say...." what if he had raped maimed or killed someone after touching her on the shoulder....and I really don't know how touching someone on a shoulder might mean he would do any of those things.

I can't find anything on the story so I suppose no one knows the full facts....anyone got a link to it just for a nose?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It would be interesting to know in what context he said it, and if he was following some wierd notion of romance instilled in him by the adverts for Impulse - which is what it sounds like he was acting under.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"It would be interesting to know in what context he said it, and if he was following some wierd notion of romance instilled in him by the adverts for Impulse - which is what it sounds like he was acting under.

Didn't think of impulse....see...these adverts are a curse

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"meant to post about this the other day, but kept forgetting.

since when has touching someonenon intimately been common assault?

where has the age of telling someone to fuck off gone?

no wonder i hate leaving my front door most days"

touching someone without consent has always been common assault.

Why should a woman have to feel she needs to tell someone to fuck off...why is her body available to anyone who wants to touch it?

Btw telling someone to fuck off also falls under the definition of common assault in certain circumstances.

Actus reus

Both in the common law and under statute, the actus reus of a common assault is committed when one person causes another to apprehend or fear that force is about to be used to cause some degree of personal contact and possible injury. There must be some quality of reasonableness to the apprehension on the part of the victim. If the physical contact is everyday social behaviour such as a handshake or friendly pat on the back, this is acceptable even though the victim may have a phobia although, if the defendant is aware of the psychological difficulty, this may be converted into an assault if the intention is to exploit the condition and embarrass the victim. More generally, if the defendant threatens injury tomorrow, the victim has the opportunity to take avoiding action although. Thus, what is threatened must be capable of being carried out immediately. This would exclude a conditional threat. For example, if the defendant says that he would beat the living daylights out of you but for the presence of a police officer watching them both, the victim is supposed to understand that there is no immediate danger. But inequality in size can be disregarded so if a very small person threatens a very large person and it is obvious that the risk of any real injury from this attack is remote, the large person may nevertheless feel some degree of apprehension. Normally, both the one making the threat and the victim must be physically present because, otherwise, there would be no immediate danger. However, if a mobile phone is used to transmit the threat (whether orally or by SMS) and, from the words used, the victim reasonably understands that an attack is imminent, this may constitute an assault.[citation needed]

In Fagan v. Metropolitan Police Commissioner [1968] 1 QB 439 a police officer ordered the defendant to park his car and he reluctantly complied. In doing so, he accidentally drove the car on to the policeman’s foot and, when asked to remove the car, said "Fuck you, you can wait" and turned off the ignition. Because of the steel toe cap in his boot, the policeman's foot was not in actual danger, but the Divisional Court held that this could constitute an assault. Albeit accidentally, the driver had caused his car to rest on the officer's foot. This actus reus was a continuing act and the mens rea was formed during the relevant time (see concurrence). Whether realistically or not, the officer apprehended the possibility of injury so the offence was complete.

In R v. Ireland,[3] it was found that causing a person to apprehend violence can be committed by way of action or words. Words can also mean that otherwise threatening actions are rendered not capable of being an assault, as in the case of Tuberville v. Savage.[4] In that case, the plaintiff told the defendant (while putting his hand on his sword) that he would not stab him, because the circuit judge was visiting town for the local assizes. On that basis, the defendant was deemed to have known that he was not about to be injured, and it was held that no assault had been committed by the plaintiff (which would otherwise have justified the defendant's allegedly pre-emptive strike).

The "immediacy" requirement has been the subject of some debate. The leading case, again, is R v. Ireland. Therein, the House of Lords held that the making of silent telephone calls could amount to an assault if it caused the victim to believe that physical violence might be used against him in the immediate future. One example of "immediacy" adopted by the House in that case was that a man who said, "I will be at your door in a minute or two," might (in the circumstances where those words amounted to a threat) be guilty of an assault.