FabSwingers.com forum: Pro life or pro choice

By *hillboy OP Man
over a year ago

manchester

What are people’s opinion on pro life and pro choice this seems to be big topic these days personally I’m for pro life

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By *ayRosesWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

You mean you're in favour of men having legal control of a woman's body.

Well done

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pro choice.

Let's not go back to the days of back street abortionists.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pro choice.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

Pro choice

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By *radleyandRavenCouple
over a year ago

Herts

Pro-choice, but I believe the time-limit for abortions should be lowered.

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By *winfrozrMan
over a year ago

Carnoustie

Pro choice

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What are people’s opinion on pro life and pro choice this seems to be big topic these days personally I’m for pro life "

I would hope that you'll always glove it up when having casual sex.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Pro choice.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Pro choice. The idea that a woman's health and/ or bodily autonomy might be sacrificed, against her will, for a potential person, sickens me.

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

Pro-choice.

I strongly feel that no woman should have to carry a child she doesn't want and the thought of backstreet abortions scares me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pro-choice, but I believe the time-limit for abortions should be lowered."

Definitely. I think it's 24 weeks at present, but babies can now survive at this stage.

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By *ncemoreroundthesunCouple
over a year ago

on the move

Pro choice

As the great Bill Hicks said "why don't pro lifers blockade cemeteries and stop murdering doctors".

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By *ilverfox2936Man
over a year ago

Prescot

If us blokes gave birth to the babies the would be no debate, pro life wouldn’t be entertained.

Population would be less anyway though, I know I wouldn’t push a bowling ball out of a ping pong ball sized hole more than once

On a serious note, I’ve always believed the final decision has to be with the woman, it’s her body, her life, her decision.

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

This is something I (Luke) have struggled with morally. There clearly comes a point where a baby is a valid human life. I can't say what that point is so I struggle with whether it would be morally acceptable to terminate.

On the other hand, it would be outrageous for a man to make a decision on what a woman should do with her body. She is the one that has to go through the procedure and deal with the consequences. There are no laws compelling a man to look after the child from an unplanned pregnancy.

The only conclusion I can come to is that women should be given the information, support and the right to choose. Forcing a woman to go through a pregnancy is not something I could justify.

An important point to also mention is that no woman should be pressured into having an abortion. I know at least two cases of this personally.

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By *hillboy OP Man
over a year ago

manchester

So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville

"Pro-choice, but I believe the time-limit for abortions should be lowered."

What gestation would you stop at?

Many lethal fetal anomalies are not detected until around 16-18 weeks, or even at the 20 week scan. By tge time this is confirmed, and the parent(s) have had time to process this, time has passed.

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By *ayRosesWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"Pro-choice, but I believe the time-limit for abortions should be lowered.

Definitely. I think it's 24 weeks at present, but babies can now survive at this stage. "

Late term terminations are incredibly rare and those that are carried out are for unviable pregnancies or because the mother's life is in danger.

Why should a woman carry on with a pregnancy when the outcome is so bad?

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By *VineMan
over a year ago

The right place

Can you be both?

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for "

That's a different debate...

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By *ittleAcornMan
over a year ago

visiting the beach

As a bloke I feel I am unqualified on this subject.

However, comment sense says the only person who should have any say over the cells contained within their body, is the person who's body it is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for "

Assault?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pro choice. The idea that a woman's health and/ or bodily autonomy might be sacrificed, against her will, for a potential person, sickens me."

This, always pro choice.

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

Pro choice.

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

"Pro-choice, but I believe the time-limit for abortions should be lowered."

Agreed

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for "

Why not stick to your opening question OP

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville

"Pro-choice, but I believe the time-limit for abortions should be lowered.

Definitely. I think it's 24 weeks at present, but babies can now survive at this stage. "

The survival rate has plateaued at 24 weeks, but they still have significant multiple morbidities.

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By *ampshirehotwifeWoman
over a year ago

Hampshire

"What are people’s opinion on pro life and pro choice this seems to be big topic these days personally I’m for pro life "

This is a very heavy subject to discuss.

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By *ilverfox2936Man
over a year ago

Prescot

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for "

Assault occasioning either ABH or GBH

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By *radleyandRavenCouple
over a year ago

Herts

"Pro-choice, but I believe the time-limit for abortions should be lowered.

Definitely. I think it's 24 weeks at present, but babies can now survive at this stage. "

When our Son was in NICU, there were babies in there born at 22/23 weeks who survived and are now bouncing, healthy children.

I know abortions up to 24 weeks are usually only carried out under extreme circumstances, but it still makes me feel incredibly uneasy. x

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for "

No idea. That's hardly her *choice* though, is it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

Assault? "

Fetal destruction.

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By *hillboy OP Man
over a year ago

manchester

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

That's a different debate..."
the answer would be murder so what’s the difference that’s my opinion

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By *uriousscouserWoman
over a year ago

Wirral

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for "

If you declare foetal personhood you'll find it will ALWAYS shit all over female personhood. Look at Marshae Jones in Alabama.

Be very careful to understand the full implications of it before declaring it a good thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im Pro choice. But I agree with others about lowering it from 24 weeks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

That's a different debate... the answer would be murder so what’s the difference that’s my opinion "

But in law it's not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pro choice but with limits.

Less weeks of gestation for abortion and more thorough Councelling for those who want an abortion so they don't regret it later and so that it's not used as a form of contraception

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

That's a different debate... the answer would be murder so what’s the difference that’s my opinion "

The answer is not murder. You might think it should be murder, but that's not the law.

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

That's a different debate... the answer would be murder so what’s the difference that’s my opinion "

What if the law prevented you from choosing to have a vasectomy or for forced you to in specific circumstances?

I suspect that you would not be keen.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

That's a different debate... the answer would be murder so what’s the difference that’s my opinion "

Let's hope you never have a partner who is pregnant, and abnormalities are detected in the scans or that her being pregnant could end in her risking her life. Think before you make such crass statements

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

That's a different debate... the answer would be murder so what’s the difference that’s my opinion "

Source it.

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By *reedy_for_funCouple
over a year ago

My House

Pro choice. Not all pregnancies are wanted; some accidental, some forced, some unwanted for a while myriad of reasons. Basically it's her body and therefore her choice, no one else's and most certainly not to be dictated by religion or govt's. We should fully support all ladies in whatever they decide.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pro Choice. It's up to every individual woman to decide what is right for herself and her body. Although, I've never considered abortion myself.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I think we should presume that women are competent adults who can be entrusted with taking care of their health. And this presumption should not end just because the woman is pregnant or the medical issue involves her reproductive parts.

I also think that it's horrifying that this is controversial in a first world country in 2020.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I think the woman should decide what to do with her own body and if that means removing a foetus then so be it.

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By *hillboy OP Man
over a year ago

manchester

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

That's a different debate... the answer would be murder so what’s the difference that’s my opinion

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for "

If the fetus is of a viable gestation, or more pertinently, capable of being born alive, the crime is called 'child destruction'.

Murder is when the fetus has been killed following birth and seperation from it's mother.

Abortion is the premature end of pregnancy, be it spontaneous (miscarriage) or theraputic (e.g for health or social reaons).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

That's a different debate... the answer would be murder so what’s the difference that’s my opinion

Not a laughing matter.

You are entitled to an option but just remember some subjects are very emotional and need to be handled with care and sensitively.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

That's a different debate... the answer would be murder so what’s the difference that’s my opinion

So at her most testing and traumatic of times, you're going to call her a murderer are you? You're entitled to your opinion as is everyone.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

Pro choice with a lower week limit, with the exception of medical conditions that may be picked up in the 20 week scan

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

Why not stick to your opening question OP "

I think that the OP is trying to understand a complex and emotive subject, so it's good to explore and learn

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

That's a different debate... the answer would be murder so what’s the difference that’s my opinion "

It’s not murder. Murder had to be against a human. A human in law is when life begins. Life begins when the fetus passes through the vagina and takes its first breath.

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By *ilverfox2936Man
over a year ago

Prescot

I do find it interesting that many people (not just on here) want the limit reducing to less than 24 weeks.

Mostly it seems to be because, medical science has improved to the stage where a wanted baby is viable at a much earlier stage than 10 years ago.

So, on that basis, if improvements continue to be made, and a foetus could eventually be viable at 5 weeks through say an artificial womb, should abortion be outlawed as a foetus would be viable even before a woman knew she was pregnant?

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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago

Paisley

"Pro-choice, but I believe the time-limit for abortions should be lowered.

Definitely. I think it's 24 weeks at present, but babies can now survive at this stage. "

They often have health issues due to being incubated and tube fed. It’s not always in the best interests of the child. At what point does medicine interfere too much?

I’m for pro choice.

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

That's a different debate... the answer would be murder so what’s the difference that’s my opinion

It’s not murder. Murder had to be against a human. A human in law is when life begins. Life begins when the fetus passes through the vagina and takes its first breath."

Not just vaginal birth..

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By *ick_and_BickerCouple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

That's a different debate... the answer would be murder so what’s the difference that’s my opinion

You are a pro lifer so you are forcing women to carry on with unwanted pregnancies. Would you be pro life if a female relative you love is pregnant due to r*pe?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

Why not stick to your opening question OP

I think that the OP is trying to understand a complex and emotive subject, so it's good to explore and learn "

It is if you are going to be sensible and sensitive about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pro choice with a lower week limit, with the exception of medical conditions that may be picked up in the 20 week scan "

Fortunately, certain medical conditions can be indicated through the triple blood tests. I had two amnios. The waiting for cells to be cultured takes 2-3 weeks. That time was spent in hell thinking over the choice of potential termination or continuation of pregnancy.

I was fortunate with the results. But no-one should ever assume a termination is an easy choice.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

That's a different debate... the answer would be murder so what’s the difference that’s my opinion

It’s not murder. Murder had to be against a human. A human in law is when life begins. Life begins when the fetus passes through the vagina and takes its first breath.

Not just vaginal birth.."
you’re quite right

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By *hillboy OP Man
over a year ago

manchester

How about girls that have one night stands and get pregnant and say well I don’t want it should the baby have to suffer because of it or one example I no a girl that had an abortion because she said she wanted to go to university

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'll also add that I'm not in favour of the week limit being lowered. Otherwise as stated above, as science advances and foetuses become viable earlier and earlier you'd end up making it very difficult to draw a line.

I was born very prematurely and my mum could've aborted me if she'd chosen to. She was a teenager herself and I definitely wouldn't have blamed her. I think every woman should have that choice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do find it interesting that many people (not just on here) want the limit reducing to less than 24 weeks.

Mostly it seems to be because, medical science has improved to the stage where a wanted baby is viable at a much earlier stage than 10 years ago.

It's more of a case of viability when the legislation was made/udated (which is much more than 10 years).

Oh and a foetus becomes so at 6-8 weeks. I don't think we'll be concerning ourselves at embryonic stages in my lifetime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pro choice, and I've been in the unfortunate position where my position on it has been thoroughly tested. It was absolutely not the choice I'd have preferred, but she wasn't ready and I stood by her. Devastated both of us and marked the beginning of the long, slow death of our relationship, but I supported her 100% and never once made her feel like she was in the wrong or a bad person. In hindsight, we'd probably never have lasted either way.

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

It's her body, her life, her choice. Would it have been fair for her to bring an unplanned and unwanted child into the world? Hardly fair on the child either.

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By *LOVEpinacoladasWoman
over a year ago

East Sussex

Always pro choice in the pro choice vs anti choice debate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Suffering is subjective. The woman has a choice.

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By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago

all loved up

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for "
life hopefully

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By *ittleMissCaliWoman
over a year ago

all loved up

Oh and pro choice always x but dont agree with women that use termination almost as contraception ( yes it happens)

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Pro choice with a lower week limit, with the exception of medical conditions that may be picked up in the 20 week scan

I was fortunate with the results. But no-one should ever assume a termination is an easy choice. "

I know it’s not an easy choice having been there. However, some defects and life altering for the child, are not picked up until the 20 week scan

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

Yes, that's fine by me.

Remember that the man was equally responsible for the pregnancy, yet can walk away with no responsibility for the results.

Your view seems to be that any pregnancy is very much the woman's "fault". This doesn't sit well with me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well since there isn't a baby, there is a foetus, a baby won't be suffering.

Also, why should the woman have to suffer through raising a kid she doesn't want, potentially as a single parent- as well as damaging her potential career.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The 'baby' isn't suffering

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, that's fine by me.

Remember that the man was equally responsible for the pregnancy, yet can walk away with no responsibility for the results.

Your view seems to be that any pregnancy is very much the woman's "fault". This doesn't sit well with me."

this, it takes two to tango, but somehow only one is left holding the baby.

If men could get pregnant, abortions would be available at every corner shop

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By *affeine DuskMan
over a year ago

Caerphilly

I don't have the authority as a man, or as a human being, to tell another person what to do with their body.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"How about girls that have one night stands and get pregnant and say well I don’t want it should the baby have to suffer because of it or one example I no a girl that had an abortion because she said she wanted to go to university "
you’re misunderstanding. A foetus is not a baby. It’s the woman’s body she can do what she wants with it. It’s her choice, no one else’s. what if I said to you ‘let’s have your kidney’ - even though you didn’t want to.

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By *hillboy OP Man
over a year ago

manchester

It's her body, her life, her choice. Would it have been fair for her to bring an unplanned and unwanted child into the world? Hardly fair on the child either. "
she can put the baby into care if she doesn’t want it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's her body, her life, her choice. Would it have been fair for her to bring an unplanned and unwanted child into the world? Hardly fair on the child either. she can put the baby into care if she doesn’t want it "

And put more strain on an already struggling system?

Because that's what's best for a child

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

prophylactic

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By *eastAndTheHarlotCouple
over a year ago

Hartlepool

Go educate yourself before trying to debate.

Assault on a woman causing miscarriage is GBH.

You really want more unwanted baby's in the world? More women to die?

Abortion isn't something anyone does lightly or likes. It's a medical procedure.

Until 10 weeks it's the mothers choice. Until 20 weeks it has to be medically necessary. After that it is only available in very extreme cases.

No one is advocating murdering babies when they say they're pro choice. They're giving women access to a potentially life saving procedure.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

Early on there is no suffering, it is not life, it is the process of life being created. Cells and shit!

In the case you point out, that "baby" is better off not being born because the mother (and possibly father) don't want it. So what is in the future for that baby? Uncertainty in Foster homes and highly likely never being adopted or finding a family of their own, a childhood of hard times.

Yes there will be some that will use abortion for selfish reasons in that they can use it as a safety net without needing to take responsibility for their actions. However the number of cases that have pro reasons far outweigh the cons.

Pro choice all the way.

Though! I do feel there is also a grey area when it comes to relationships and if there is zero discussion or consideration for involving the father in the choice, I believe, feel, and think that they should at least be involved with the decision but ultimately the final say is with mother though.

I say this because I know a couple of couples that have been in the situation and the fathers didnt even get to put their feelings out there, not that they particularly wanted the baby but just that their feelings were pushed aside.

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

Seriously?

You are suggesting that a woman should carry a child she does not want for 9 months, give birth to it and then expect the state to care for it?

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By *LOVEpinacoladasWoman
over a year ago

East Sussex

And put more strain on an already struggling system?

Because that's what's best for a child

Anti choicers never seem to care about what happens to the baby after birth. It's just thinly-veiled misogyny aimed at controlling and punishing women.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is an emotive subject. Yet those who claim to be pro life seem to exclude any concept of personal freedom and the right of each person to make their own choice.

If those who denounce choice were told in other areas of their lives what they must do to facilitate another persons opinion or belief, what would there response be.

Where is the love?.

For me altbough I will never be in that positio it has to be the persons own choice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And put more strain on an already struggling system?

Because that's what's best for a child

Anti choicers never seem to care about what happens to the baby after birth. It's just thinly-veiled misogyny aimed at controlling and punishing women."

I'm glad someone said it

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

Seriously?

You are suggesting that a woman should carry a child she does not want for 9 months, give birth to it and then expect the state to care for it?"

The view that the state should care for a baby is ill informed and a simplistic answer to a very complex question. Too bad if the mother dies in birth, eh?

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

Very responsible, not. The care system is already overwhelmed. You really aren't thinking things through. She would still have to carry and give birth to the baby, thus losing the chance of her university place.

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

Seriously?

You are suggesting that a woman should carry a child she does not want for 9 months, give birth to it and then expect the state to care for it?

The view that the state should care for a baby is ill informed and a simplistic answer to a very complex question. Too bad if the mother dies in birth, eh?

Clearly the emotional and physical wellbeing of the woman is not important

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By *hillboy OP Man
over a year ago

manchester

So in that case if a woman has a kid and she’s not with the dad dose that mean he doesn’t have to pay child support because that’s his choice

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So in that case if a woman has a kid and she’s not with the dad dose that mean he doesn’t have to pay child support because that’s his choice "

Loads of father's don't pay child support, mine never did.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"So in that case if a woman has a kid and she’s not with the dad dose that mean he doesn’t have to pay child support because that’s his choice "
so now you’re pro choice?

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By *hillboy OP Man
over a year ago

manchester

I just want to say to everyone that it’s good that we can debate things like this and not get mad I like that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So in that case if a woman has a kid and she’s not with the dad dose that mean he doesn’t have to pay child support because that’s his choice so now you’re pro choice?

Pro male choice... Convenient eh

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By *hillboy OP Man
over a year ago

manchester

"So in that case if a woman has a kid and she’s not with the dad dose that mean he doesn’t have to pay child support because that’s his choice

Loads of father's don't pay child support, mine never did.

"
and do you respect that

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"So in that case if a woman has a kid and she’s not with the dad dose that mean he doesn’t have to pay child support because that’s his choice "

There's a massive difference between financial support and being a parent. I can only assume that you are not a parent.

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

"So in that case if a woman has a kid and she’s not with the dad dose that mean he doesn’t have to pay child support because that’s his choice "

It's law to pay child support. He is as much responsible as the mother. Why should he get away Scott free and literally leave her holding the baby. I'm beginning to think you threads are a deliberate attempt to stir people up. Green arrow.

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By *miableRogueMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

As a man, I have full authority over my body.

As a father of daughters, I think they should be afforded the same rights.

Therefore, I’m pro-choice

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By *hillboy OP Man
over a year ago

manchester

"So in that case if a woman has a kid and she’s not with the dad dose that mean he doesn’t have to pay child support because that’s his choice so now you’re pro choice?

"
no I’m just seeing what people would say if I turned it around

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for "

Depending on which trimester.

ABH; just on the mother.

Murder.

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"So in that case if a woman has a kid and she’s not with the dad dose that mean he doesn’t have to pay child support because that’s his choice so now you’re pro choice?

no I’m just seeing what people would say if I turned it around "

But it isn't turning it around...

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

More wise words from my friend, the late Mr George Carlin

"Why, why, why, why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place, huh? Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're fucked.

Conservatives don't give a shit about you until you reach "military age". Then they think you are just fine. Just what they've been looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. Pro-life... pro-life... These people aren't pro-life, they're killing doctors! What kind of pro-life is that? What, they'll do anything they can to save a fetus but if it grows up to be a doctor they just might have to kill it. They're not pro-life. You know what they are? They're anti-woman. Simple as it gets, anti-woman. They don't like them. They don't like women. They believe a woman's primary role is to function as a brood mare for the state.

Pro-life... You don't see many of these white anti-abortion women volunteering to have any black fetuses transplanted into their uteruses, do you? No, you don't see them adopting a whole lot of crack babies, do you? No, that might be something Christ would do. And, you won't see a lot of these pro-life people dousing themselves in kerosene and lighting themselves on fire. You know, morally committed religious people in South Vietnam knew how to stage a goddamn demonstration, didn't they?! They knew how to put on a fucking protest. Light yourself on FIRE!! C'mon, you moral crusaders, let's see a little smoke. To match that fire in your belly.

Here's another question I have: how come when it's us, it's an abortion, and when it's a chicken, it's an omelette? Are we so much better than chickens all of a sudden? When did this happen, that we passed chickens in goodness? Name six ways we're better than chickens... See, nobody can do it! You know why? 'Cuz chickens are decent people. You don't see chickens hanging around in drug gangs, do you? No, you don't see a chicken strapping some guy to a chair and hooking up his nuts to a car battery, do you? When's the last chicken you heard about came home from work and beat the shit out of his hen, huh? Doesn't happen. 'Cuz chickens are decent people.

But let's get back to this abortion shit. Now, is a fetus a human being? This seems to be the central question. Well, if a fetus is a human being, how come the census doesn't count them? If a fetus is a human being, how come when there's a miscarriage they don't have a funeral? If a fetus is a human being, how come people say "we have two children and one on the way" instead of saying "we have three children?" People say life begins at conception, I say life began about a billion years ago and it's a continuous process. Continuous, just keeps rolling along. Rolling, rolling, rolling along.

And say you know something? Listen, you can go back further than that. What about the carbon atoms? Hah? Human life could not exist without carbon. So is it just possible that maybe we shouldn't be burning all this coal? Just looking for a little consistency here in these anti-abortion arguments. See the really hardcore people will tell you life begins at fertilization. Fertilization, when the sperm fertilizes the egg. Which is usually a few moments after the man says "Gee, honey, I was going to pull out but the phone rang and it startled me." Fertilization.

But even after the egg is fertilized, it's still six or seven days before it reaches the uterus and pregnancy begins, and not every egg makes it that far. Eighty percent of a woman's fertilized eggs are rinsed and flushed out of her body once a month during those delightful few days she has. They wind up on sanitary napkins, and yet they are fertilized eggs. So basically what these anti-abortion people are telling us is that any woman who's had more than more than one period is a serial killer! Consistency. Consistency. Hey, hey, if they really want to get serious, what about all the sperm that are wasted when the state executes a condemned man, one of these pro-life guys who's watching cums in his pants, huh? Here's a guy standing over there with his jockey shorts full of little Vinnies and Debbies, and nobody's saying a word to the guy. Not every ejaculation deserves a name.

Now, speaking of consistency, Catholics, which I was until I reached the age of reason, Catholics and other Christians are against abortions, and they're against homosexuals. Well who has less abortions than homosexuals?! Leave these fucking people alone, for Christ sake! Here is an entire class of people guaranteed never to have an abortion! And the Catholics and Christians are just tossing them aside! You'd think they'd make natural allies. Go look for consistency in religion. And speaking of my friends the Catholics, when John Cardinal O'Connor of New York and some of these other Cardinals and Bishops have experienced their first pregnancies and their first labor pains and they've raised a couple of children on minimum wage, then I'll be glad to hear what they have to say about abortion. I'm sure it'll be interesting. Enlightening, too. But, in the meantime what they ought to be doing is telling these priests who took a vow of chastity to keep their hands off the altar boys! Keep your hands to yourself, Father! You know? When Jesus said "Suffer the little children come unto me", that's not what he was talking about!

So you know what I tell these anti-abortion people? I say "Hey. Hey. If you think a fetus is more important that a woman, try getting a fetus to wash the shit stains out of your underwear. For no pay and no pension." I tell them "Think of an abortion as term limits. That's all it is. Biological term limits."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So in that case if a woman has a kid and she’s not with the dad dose that mean he doesn’t have to pay child support because that’s his choice

Loads of father's don't pay child support, mine never did.

and do you respect that "

My father is a selfish drug addict, ex con and all around loser- him abandoning me has caused me a lot of problems. Him not paying child support really is the least concern.

I don't respect anything about men who father kids and then dump the responsibility on the mother. Though I actually think he did me a favour, I'd definitely have been worse off if my mum hadn't raised me by herself.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"So in that case if a woman has a kid and she’s not with the dad dose that mean he doesn’t have to pay child support because that’s his choice so now you’re pro choice?

no I’m just seeing what people would say if I turned it around

But it isn't turning it around..."
I think the OP is spinning around in a room full of choice and decision doors and doesn’t know which one to take.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pro choice, and I'd raise the time limit on ending the pregnancy to the moment the child is born. No one has the right to use another person's body.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pro choice, and I'd raise the time limit on ending the pregnancy to the moment the child is born. No one has the right to use another person's body."

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"So in that case if a woman has a kid and she’s not with the dad dose that mean he doesn’t have to pay child support because that’s his choice so now you’re pro choice?

no I’m just seeing what people would say if I turned it around

But it isn't turning it around... I think the OP is spinning around in a room full of choice and decision doors and doesn’t know which one to take. "

Reading his other threads, the OP may have had very little experience of adult relationships and life in general.

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

This is a very controversial topic that polarises society like few others do.

A few things to begin with; first, I disagree that pro life is about handing men control of a woman's body. There is a not too insignificant number of women who also fall into the pro life camp.

Secondly, it does take two to tango and responsibility for an unwanted / unexpected pregnancy is always shared. The bit about women being left holding the bag shows how irresponsible western society has become. A few generations ago, the man would be forced to assume his role as parent and own up to his responsibility...something which is still expected in many different cultures today.

With choice comes responsibility. Abortion for an unwanted pregnancy due to a one night stand is fine, but is reprehensible if used multiple times to cover for poor judgement. I know a number of situations where this has been the case.

I'm pro choice, but within the established legal limit and never used as a contraceptive measure to excuse regular irresponsible behaviour.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pro choice with a lower limit.

Though I would never tell another woman what she should do with her body and, perhaps more importantly, her life.

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By *ucidityWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham

Pro choice.

Her body, her choice.

Even if it’s not the choice I would make for myself, or is the kind of choice that makes my heart ache.

You can’t judge someone without walking in their shoes. You can’t tell someone what to do with their body.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"Pro choice with a lower limit.

Though I would never tell another woman what she should do with her body and, perhaps more importantly, her life."
some men don’t realise how dangerous a birth can be for a woman. My wife nearly died giving birth. I was told to leave the room in no uncertain terms.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

In those cases if the father is pro life he should take the child on from birth and be 100% responsible for it.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"Pro choice with a lower limit.

Though I would never tell another woman what she should do with her body and, perhaps more importantly, her life. some men don’t realise how dangerous a birth can be for a woman. My wife nearly died giving birth. I was told to leave the room in no uncertain terms. "
I guess it’s easy to have an opinion when it doesn’t affect you.

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

In those cases if the father is pro life he should take the child on from birth and be 100% responsible for it."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep, pro life is a misnomer. It should be "pro birth" because that's all they care about. Not the mother or the child. Just the birth.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death. "
the same could be said for the woman. She could die.

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death. "

But, it isn't a child at conception. It's a bundle of cells which may become a viable person.

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By *inky_CarpenterMan
over a year ago

Portsmouth

"What are people’s opinion on pro life and pro choice this seems to be big topic these days personally I’m for pro life "

It would be a lot more entertaining and informative a debate, if you at qualified that statement, and at least laid out some of your reasons, and then gave an argument as to why you think the status quo should be changed.

Are you pro life for philisophical, ethical, moral, or religious reasons.

Are you against All abortions? Do you make exception for r@pe or inc3st? Medical/psychological risk to the mother?

Unviable foetus? If life starts at conception do you want to ban morning after pills too?

It sounds like you are just stirring the pot for shits and giggles.....

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By *ayRosesWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death. "

It's not a child at that moment, it's a group of cells. One that you've instantly made more important than the female attacked.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death. the same could be said for the woman. She could die. "

Possibly by her own hand, having been made to carry her attacker's foetus.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death.

It's not a child at that moment, it's a group of cells. One that you've instantly made more important than the female attacked."

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"What are people’s opinion on pro life and pro choice this seems to be big topic these days personally I’m for pro life

Are you pro life for philisophical, ethical, moral, or religious reasons.

Are you against All abortions? Do you make exception for r@pe or inc3st? Medical/psychological risk to the mother?

Unviable foetus? If life starts at conception do you want to ban morning after pills too?

It sounds like you are just stirring the pot for shits and giggles.....

I think he lacks life experience and maturity. It may be that starting such threads enable him to reconsider his opinions in light of other people's views, experiences and knowledge.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I suppose something has to have independent life before it can die. Perhaps it’s the potential for life that’s important - in which case then there should be an equally if not stronger argument for the health of the woman as she already is alive.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death.

But, it isn't a child at conception. It's a bundle of cells which may become a viable person. "

At what point is it too late to kill it in your opinion then?

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By *ayRosesWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

These sorts of discussions are always great for showing those men who are feminist allies and understand a woman's bodily autonomy and those who let their misogyny show when they don't realise it.

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death.

But, it isn't a child at conception. It's a bundle of cells which may become a viable person.

At what point is it too late to kill it in your opinion then?"

I don't personally see it as killing the child. Until birth it is a foetus.

I appreciate that I may be in the minority in this.

So, for me the life of the mother is always more important and as such it is for her to make the decision what is best for her.

There are many factors to consider, whether the pregnancy is wanted, the viability of the unborn child and the mental and physical wellbeing of the mother.

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By *elma and ShaggyCouple
over a year ago

Bedworth

Should a woman have to go through forced birth and have to change her entire life plans because some pissed up bloke on a one night stand didn’t respect her enough to put on a condom?

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death.

But, it isn't a child at conception. It's a bundle of cells which may become a viable person.

At what point is it too late to kill it in your opinion then?

I don't personally see it as killing the child. Until birth it is a foetus.

I appreciate that I may be in the minority in this.

So, for me the life of the mother is always more important and as such it is for her to make the decision what is best for her.

There are many factors to consider, whether the pregnancy is wanted, the viability of the unborn child and the mental and physical wellbeing of the mother.

And yes, I am a mother.

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By *oft_SensualTV/TS
over a year ago

Yorkshire

Seriously, is this even an issue that needs to be discussed? It's a woman's body and it's down to her, not a man, politician, priest or anyone else as to what she does with it. End of.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for "

A fetus is not alive and the law would not say it was murder. If the baby left the womb and then died , it would be murder.

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

"What are people’s opinion on pro life and pro choice this seems to be big topic these days personally I’m for pro life

Are you pro life for philisophical, ethical, moral, or religious reasons.

Are you against All abortions? Do you make exception for r@pe or inc3st? Medical/psychological risk to the mother?

Unviable foetus? If life starts at conception do you want to ban morning after pills too?

It sounds like you are just stirring the pot for shits and giggles.....

Ban contraception which prevents pregnancy maybe? Let's go for it 100%, why not?

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"Seriously, is this even an issue that needs to be discussed? It's a woman's body and it's down to her, not a man, politician, priest or anyone else as to what she does with it. End of."

Sadly, many, especially men who won't ever be effected by this, don't agree.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death.

But, it isn't a child at conception. It's a bundle of cells which may become a viable person.

At what point is it too late to kill it in your opinion then?

I don't personally see it as killing the child. Until birth it is a foetus.

I appreciate that I may be in the minority in this.

So, for me the life of the mother is always more important and as such it is for her to make the decision what is best for her.

There are many factors to consider, whether the pregnancy is wanted, the viability of the unborn child and the mental and physical wellbeing of the mother.

Ah, so you're in full agreement of killing full term, healthy babies inside the vagina as they're not "out". Nice.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Were you the father ?

Do you know who the father was ?

Was she in a long term relationship ?

Did the father of the unplanned baby say that he'd give up his life to look after the child too ?

Why shouldn't a woman go to university instead of bringing another unwanted child into society ?

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death.

But, it isn't a child at conception. It's a bundle of cells which may become a viable person.

At what point is it too late to kill it in your opinion then?

I don't personally see it as killing the child. Until birth it is a foetus.

I appreciate that I may be in the minority in this.

So, for me the life of the mother is always more important and as such it is for her to make the decision what is best for her.

There are many factors to consider, whether the pregnancy is wanted, the viability of the unborn child and the mental and physical wellbeing of the mother.

Ah, so you're in full agreement of killing full term, healthy babies inside the vagina as they're not "out". Nice.

Naughty Clem. You are fully aware that you are misinterpreting...

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Seriously, is this even an issue that needs to be discussed? It's a woman's body and it's down to her, not a man, politician, priest or anyone else as to what she does with it. End of.

Sadly, many, especially men who won't ever be effected by this, don't agree."

When I became pregnant at 46 it was a problem that Mr N shared with me. The discussions that took place involved us both

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death.

But, it isn't a child at conception. It's a bundle of cells which may become a viable person.

At what point is it too late to kill it in your opinion then?

I don't personally see it as killing the child. Until birth it is a foetus.

I appreciate that I may be in the minority in this.

So, for me the life of the mother is always more important and as such it is for her to make the decision what is best for her.

There are many factors to consider, whether the pregnancy is wanted, the viability of the unborn child and the mental and physical wellbeing of the mother.

Ah, so you're in full agreement of killing full term, healthy babies inside the vagina as they're not "out". Nice.

Naughty Clem. You are fully aware that you are misinterpreting..."

Your words.

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death.

But, it isn't a child at conception. It's a bundle of cells which may become a viable person.

At what point is it too late to kill it in your opinion then?

I don't personally see it as killing the child. Until birth it is a foetus.

I appreciate that I may be in the minority in this.

So, for me the life of the mother is always more important and as such it is for her to make the decision what is best for her.

There are many factors to consider, whether the pregnancy is wanted, the viability of the unborn child and the mental and physical wellbeing of the mother.

Ah, so you're in full agreement of killing full term, healthy babies inside the vagina as they're not "out". Nice.

Naughty Clem. You are fully aware that you are misinterpreting...

Your words. "

No, your interpretation.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"So if someone punches a pregnant woman and the Baby dies what would that person go down for

That's a different debate... the answer would be murder so what’s the difference that’s my opinion "

It is not murder. That's not my opinion that's law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death.

But, it isn't a child at conception. It's a bundle of cells which may become a viable person.

At what point is it too late to kill it in your opinion then?

I don't personally see it as killing the child. Until birth it is a foetus.

I appreciate that I may be in the minority in this.

So, for me the life of the mother is always more important and as such it is for her to make the decision what is best for her.

There are many factors to consider, whether the pregnancy is wanted, the viability of the unborn child and the mental and physical wellbeing of the mother.

Ah, so you're in full agreement of killing full term, healthy babies inside the vagina as they're not "out". Nice.

No woman takes the decision lightly especially longer into the pregnancy.

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By *inky_CarpenterMan
over a year ago

Portsmouth

Yes and let's legislate against male, masturbation and ejaculation during oral or anal sex.... Women you are ok to play as much as you like since you don't spill any seed when you Orgasm lol! Xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So in that case if a woman has a kid and she’s not with the dad dose that mean he doesn’t have to pay child support because that’s his choice "

He loses that argument by not wearing a condom.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

Should a woman have to go through forced birth and have to change her entire life plans because some pissed up bloke on a one night stand didn’t respect her enough to put on a condom?"

While I agree with the basis of your point, why does it need to be the man that is pissed up and have no respect. Ignoring sexual assault cases and him just straight up lieing about using one, she clearly didn't respect herself enough to walk away if no condom is involved.

Regardless of it being her body

and her choice (which I do agree with), it is also her responsibility to make sure her body is being shown respect - again I'm not including sexual assault and other similar situations.

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By *adeiteWoman
over a year ago

Staffordshire

Pro choice.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

"Pro choice. "
men don’t have to make that choice. Men can afford to censure because it doesn’t affect them. I think it would be different if men gave birth. Like the poster above said, there’d be corner shop abortion clinics.

“Did you ‘come in’? Come in and get it out”

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"I think it's kinda out of order that if a child is conceived through no fault of its own during a sexual assault, it's "punishment" can be death.

But, it isn't a child at conception. It's a bundle of cells which may become a viable person.

At what point is it too late to kill it in your opinion then?

I don't personally see it as killing the child. Until birth it is a foetus.

I appreciate that I may be in the minority in this.

So, for me the life of the mother is always more important and as such it is for her to make the decision what is best for her.

There are many factors to consider, whether the pregnancy is wanted, the viability of the unborn child and the mental and physical wellbeing of the mother.

Ah, so you're in full agreement of killing full term, healthy babies inside the vagina as they're not "out". Nice.

Naughty Clem. You are fully aware that you are misinterpreting...

Your words.

No, your interpretation."

Your words. Own them.

"I don't personally see it as killing the child. Until birth it is a foetus."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Pro-choice, but I believe the time-limit for abortions should be lowered."

Same

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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago

Dudley

Pro choice but the time limit should be lowered on abortions given without medical issues for the fetus or mother.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pro choice

Anyone who says otherwise, that a woman shouldn’t have choice over her own body is a fucking moron.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Yes and let's legislate against male, masturbation and ejaculation during oral or anal sex.... Women you are ok to play as much as you like since you don't spill any seed when you Orgasm lol! Xx"

"Every sperm is sacred..."

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

If a foetus is viable and the mother wants to get rid of it, then let her. For me this is an argument about bodily autonomy. If I were due in two days (I've never been pregnant and I'm being over the top on purpose) and I decided I didn't want to be pregnant any more, well, this (potential) person doesn't have a right to inhabit or use my body without my consent. The same as the actual people on this thread don't have a right to inhabit or use my body.

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By *omesticflightMan
over a year ago

Burton-on-Trent

Pro-choice

morality ethics biology asides - Why make someone invent a new life, probably have to raise it, if they're obviously not interested/able/capable/prepared?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Pro-choice

morality ethics biology asides - Why make someone invent a new life, probably have to raise it, if they're obviously not interested/able/capable/prepared? "

I also think that a child being unwanted is probably awful for the child in many ways.

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By *om and JennieCouple
over a year ago

Chams or Socials

Pro-choice.

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By *ily WhiteWoman
over a year ago

I'm very much pro choice, BUT only up to a certain point of development (what that point is is not for me to determine, I'm not an expert in the field).

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

"If a foetus is viable and the mother wants to get rid of it, then let her. For me this is an argument about bodily autonomy. If I were due in two days (I've never been pregnant and I'm being over the top on purpose) and I decided I didn't want to be pregnant any more, well, this (potential) person doesn't have a right to inhabit or use my body without my consent. The same as the actual people on this thread don't have a right to inhabit or use my body."

I must say i'm shocked at the sheer callousness of some comments on this thread. I'm pro choice, but to argue as someone did previously, and just now, that a foetus is a "non entity" right until just before birth and thus counts for nothing is shocking. As far as I know, just before birth that is a fully formed person with brainwaves and can supposedly dream. To state that one could be rid of it at any time during pregnancy because of "rights" is beyond the pale in my opinion. There is a fine line to be walked between rights and responsibility.

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By *ottielayWoman
over a year ago

by the bay

I’m the same I was quite shocked at this statement it seems very cold hearted

I’m all for choice and bodily autonomy but this is a step too far

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By *om and JennieCouple
over a year ago

Chams or Socials

I will say that I have 3 friends who have gone into early labour between 24-25 weeks. Their children are absolutely perfect. So I think maybe reduce the abortion limit of 20 weeks unless for serious medical reasons.

But, never having been in this position I don’t feel it’s any of my business

J x

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I apologise for being unclear, and I can see how you read what you did.

A viable foetus can be removed, i.e., born. A non-viable foetus, if there were a medical alternative, could be kept alive (unfortunately this does not exist).

I'm not saying kill the child/ almost child because I have rights. In this instance I'm talking about an elective Caesarian, which is something that already happens.

As someone who has received substandard gynaecological care because of my views on becoming a parent, the idea of encroaching further upon that, risking my health or my life because of some ideal, is very real to me. (And the last time I saw a gynaecologist and he was astonished that I'd never been pregnant in my 30s, I resisted the urge to say "I use birth control every single time, because I'm responsible and I plan my family accordingly")

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

I’m the same I was quite shocked at this statement it seems very cold hearted

I’m all for choice and bodily autonomy but this is a step too far "

Yeah... Same, I'm pro choice but wow

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

I’m the same I was quite shocked at this statement it seems very cold hearted

I’m all for choice and bodily autonomy but this is a step too far "

It is cold hearted , but it’s true. Pro choice is based on the human right of bodily autonomy. It’s put the right to a life (or not) of an unborn with the person carrying it, regardless of whether they make good or bad choices, and there’s no requirement for ‘responsibility’

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I’m the same I was quite shocked at this statement it seems very cold hearted

I’m all for choice and bodily autonomy but this is a step too far

Yes.

The d*unk who speeds and kills however many people still gets appropriate medical care with respect for his/ her wishes and bodily autonomy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nobody is claiming it's ok to kill babies. This is the same straw-man tactic that is always employed in this debate. The other one being "so you don't think fathers have any rights".

Deflects brilliantly from the point pro choice people make which is women must be allowed to have control of their bodies.

Surely you don't think women would carry a child for nine months and then have it killed?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Nobody is claiming it's ok to kill babies. This is the same straw-man tactic that is always employed in this debate. The other one being "so you don't think fathers have any rights".

Deflects brilliantly from the point pro choice people make which is women must be allowed to have control of their bodies.

Surely you don't think women would carry a child for nine months and then have it killed?"

My argument was very unclear, and I'm sorry about that.

If I were pregnant, and I decided I wanted the child out of my body, that should be my right. What happens after that is immaterial to the argument, just like child destruction/ murder was irrelevant above.

I referred to the child as "it" because I was imagining myself being pregnant, and... that's not ever going to happen in any way shape or form.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yepp, I'm with you on this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pro choice 100%, theres too many unwanted kids being born into the system.

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By *yx_InannaWoman
over a year ago

Burslem

I’m the same I was quite shocked at this statement it seems very cold hearted

I’m all for choice and bodily autonomy but this is a step too far "

The hypothetical nature of this if a baby was due in 2 days aborting an unborn that would survive without medical assistance is abhorrent.

Reasoning on that is madness.

If it was the case inducement of the unborn and relinquish your rights and give the newborn for adoption.

There's a case I read few years ago of a woman having had late term abortion past 28week mark. She opted for partial birth which is banned in most areas. Reason why anyone would ask, her partner left her and she didn't want to have the child any more.

In any case of a woman deciding to end pregnancy late and the foetus was viable and healthy more support should be given to try continue the pregnancy or to be induced and court mandated adoption of the new born should that baby survive.

I'm pro-choice but there are scenarios when it is extremely grey areas. Past 24 weeks and it's a healthy foetus a woman opting to abort before going to term and isn't conceived by means of sexual assault and such then the medical cost should at least be partially or fully covered to allow the baby to reach its gestational age had it not been born prematurely by means of ending pregnancy intentionally. This would be the only solution to prevent abortions past 22 weeks.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I should have been clearer that at the point of viability, that elective Caesarian rather than abortion is what I was imagining.

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By *ottielayWoman
over a year ago

by the bay

"Nobody is claiming it's ok to kill babies. This is the same straw-man tactic that is always employed in this debate. The other one being "so you don't think fathers have any rights".

Deflects brilliantly from the point pro choice people make which is women must be allowed to have control of their bodies.

Surely you don't think women would carry a child for nine months and then have it killed?

My argument was very unclear, and I'm sorry about that.

I referred to the child as "it" because I was imagining myself being pregnant, and... that's not ever going to happen in any way shape or form."

You’re talking about giving birth by c/s and choosing adoption then ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pro choice. No woman takes the decision to terminate a pregnancy easily. X

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Nobody is claiming it's ok to kill babies. This is the same straw-man tactic that is always employed in this debate. The other one being "so you don't think fathers have any rights".

Deflects brilliantly from the point pro choice people make which is women must be allowed to have control of their bodies.

Surely you don't think women would carry a child for nine months and then have it killed?

My argument was very unclear, and I'm sorry about that.

I referred to the child as "it" because I was imagining myself being pregnant, and... that's not ever going to happen in any way shape or form.

You’re talking about giving birth by c/s and choosing adoption then ?

Yes.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

I’m shocked at how this thread has panned out with some extreme examples, which in my eyes, just wouldn’t / shouldn’t be viable in this age.

To say my stomach has turned is and understatement !

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Several years ago I suffered a gynaecological emergency. I wasn't pregnant. I'm not 100% sure I'd had sex in the previous nine months, although I can't say for sure (if I had, and I'd fallen pregnant, I would have been pretty far along. That I do know).

This condition involves agonising pain for a few days and then a rapid descent into death.

Upon hearing that I didn't want children, the gynaecologist took away my morphine and discharged me. I didn't have an operation for six weeks. No one knows why I didn't die.

I apologise if I'm cold about a hypothetical foetus that will never exist (mine), but this is something that really happened in a leading hospital in a first world Western country.

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By *ottielayWoman
over a year ago

by the bay

"Nobody is claiming it's ok to kill babies. This is the same straw-man tactic that is always employed in this debate. The other one being "so you don't think fathers have any rights".

Deflects brilliantly from the point pro choice people make which is women must be allowed to have control of their bodies.

Surely you don't think women would carry a child for nine months and then have it killed?

My argument was very unclear, and I'm sorry about that.

I referred to the child as "it" because I was imagining myself being pregnant, and... that's not ever going to happen in any way shape or form.

You’re talking about giving birth by c/s and choosing adoption then ?

Yes. "

Well then of course that’s an option

What I find uncomfortable is the ‘I don’t give consent for this foetus to be inside me’ as the only reason

If that’s a part of bodily autonomy then I’m shocked

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Nobody is claiming it's ok to kill babies. This is the same straw-man tactic that is always employed in this debate. The other one being "so you don't think fathers have any rights".

Deflects brilliantly from the point pro choice people make which is women must be allowed to have control of their bodies.

Surely you don't think women would carry a child for nine months and then have it killed?

My argument was very unclear, and I'm sorry about that.

I referred to the child as "it" because I was imagining myself being pregnant, and... that's not ever going to happen in any way shape or form.

You’re talking about giving birth by c/s and choosing adoption then ?

Yes.

Well then of course that’s an option

What I find uncomfortable is the ‘I don’t give consent for this foetus to be inside me’ as the only reason

If that’s a part of bodily autonomy then I’m shocked "

It is a part of bodily autonomy. Why would it not be? A person or a potential person does not have a right to use my body without my consent. If you had a rare condition and I was the only match of, whatever, to allow you to survive, it would be my right to say no. Why is pregnancy different?

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By *eeleyWoman
over a year ago

Dudley

"Nobody is claiming it's ok to kill babies. This is the same straw-man tactic that is always employed in this debate. The other one being "so you don't think fathers have any rights".

Deflects brilliantly from the point pro choice people make which is women must be allowed to have control of their bodies.

Surely you don't think women would carry a child for nine months and then have it killed?

My argument was very unclear, and I'm sorry about that.

I referred to the child as "it" because I was imagining myself being pregnant, and... that's not ever going to happen in any way shape or form.

You’re talking about giving birth by c/s and choosing adoption then ?

Yes.

Well then of course that’s an option

What I find uncomfortable is the ‘I don’t give consent for this foetus to be inside me’ as the only reason

If that’s a part of bodily autonomy then I’m shocked

But surely if you've carried the baby to full term you'd given consent?

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"Nobody is claiming it's ok to kill babies. This is the same straw-man tactic that is always employed in this debate. The other one being "so you don't think fathers have any rights".

Deflects brilliantly from the point pro choice people make which is women must be allowed to have control of their bodies.

Surely you don't think women would carry a child for nine months and then have it killed?

My argument was very unclear, and I'm sorry about that.

I referred to the child as "it" because I was imagining myself being pregnant, and... that's not ever going to happen in any way shape or form.

You’re talking about giving birth by c/s and choosing adoption then ?

Yes.

Well then of course that’s an option

What I find uncomfortable is the ‘I don’t give consent for this foetus to be inside me’ as the only reason

If that’s a part of bodily autonomy then I’m shocked

Pregnancy is different from the example you give, as you provide half of the cells to make the new life. They are already in our bodies and it’s our actions with others that make it a start of a new life

I’m sorry but the way you are talking it’s like a parasite has crawled into your body without your consent

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Consent can be given and withdrawn at any time. That's how consent works.

It would be daft, and I was being deliberately daft.

I'm not in favour of killing babies. I'm in favour of women having full right to their bodies.

What happens to the foetus/ baby is, to me (particularly given I'm talking about a baby I'll never have) a separate issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

100% pro choice. I've been fortunate enough to have received safe, compassionate abortion care when I needed it. Many women around the world are not so fortunate

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By *om and JennieCouple
over a year ago

Chams or Socials

If a man doesn’t want to father children wear a condom or have the snip. Yes, I know accidents will & can still happen but reduce the risk to start with

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

"Nobody is claiming it's ok to kill babies. This is the same straw-man tactic that is always employed in this debate. The other one being "so you don't think fathers have any rights".

Deflects brilliantly from the point pro choice people make which is women must be allowed to have control of their bodies.

Surely you don't think women would carry a child for nine months and then have it killed?

My argument was very unclear, and I'm sorry about that.

I referred to the child as "it" because I was imagining myself being pregnant, and... that's not ever going to happen in any way shape or form.

You’re talking about giving birth by c/s and choosing adoption then ?

Yes.

Well then of course that’s an option

What I find uncomfortable is the ‘I don’t give consent for this foetus to be inside me’ as the only reason

If that’s a part of bodily autonomy then I’m shocked

Not my view, but I can easily see someone saying the innocent foetus has a right from the moment you willingly spread you legs for someone and accept the potential consequences. Wording is very important, and the way you put it comes across as very cold, callous and shocking.

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