FabSwingers.com forum: Gender Appropriation?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So here's one for you.

I am a transvestite. I dont identify as transgender or transsexual. My motivation is primarily fetishistic and sexual.

I therefore chose to adopt the sexualised element of femininity for my own gratification.

Does that put me towards the top of the patriarchy scale? Am I demeaning women or am I in a position to empathise?

I am now running for cover

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"So here's one for you.

I am a transvestite. I dont identify as transgender or transsexual. My motivation is primarily fetishistic and sexual.

I therefore chose to adopt the sexualised element of femininity for my own gratification.

Does that put me towards the top of the patriarchy scale? Am I demeaning women or am I in a position to empathise?

I am now running for cover

I have posted this question against the advice of someone I should probably have listened to!

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Honestly, if anyone cares that much about what gets you off, tell them to fuck off.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I think it's a great question!

Yesterday I called you woman....... but going by what you've said your a bloke albeit a bloke in a frock ...

I don't think it makes you any more patriarchal or any more able to empathise with women ( unless we are talking high heel tired feet n legs or tight girdles )

I'd have to know YOU to know that.

I think we can safely say that you are being who you feel like being and that's the most important thing ...... I think. x

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Oh ..... P.S. In NO way shape or form are you demeaning women.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well if I am going to be 100% completely honest with you Jennie I would have to say ... I have no idea your question means.

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By *urvyandCurious999Woman
over a year ago

Hiding from twats

There's a patriarchy scale?

Honestly, I have no idea, and my Dad was trans, so I really should be more clued up. I just accept people for people, if you like getting dressed up then go for it.

Can I ask a question? What's the difference between a transvestite and a cross dresser?

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"Well if I am going to be 100% completely honest with you Jennie I would have to say ... I have no idea your question means. "

He just means that dressing up like a woman turns him on. Is that demeaning to real women or other men like him who think they are women. That's his question.

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By *zQTWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere

Nothing that hasn’t already been said but I’ll reiterate...

I don’t feel you are demeaning women in any way. Be yourself and that’s all that matter, people don’t like it they know where to go

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Can I ask a question? What's the difference between a transvestite and a cross dresser? "

Faux leopard skin?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Well if I am going to be 100% completely honest with you Jennie I would have to say ... I have no idea your question means.

He just means that dressing up like a woman turns him on. Is that demeaning to real women or other men like him who think they are women. That's his question. "

Does he think he's a woman though ? I don't think so.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"Well if I am going to be 100% completely honest with you Jennie I would have to say ... I have no idea your question means.

He just means that dressing up like a woman turns him on. Is that demeaning to real women or other men like him who think they are women. That's his question.

Does he think he's a woman though ? I don't think so."

No he doesn't.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

But can it be like "black face"? It wouldn't be ok for a white guy to black up, so is it ok for a man to dress like a woman, when he knows that he's a man...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would refer you to the scene in the movie " Billy Elliot " where a young Billy visits his friend whilst bunking off school and catches him wearing female clothes ..

" What you doing ? " exclaims Billy ,

" Nothing " replys his young buddy " my dad does it all the time when my mum is out " he explains further " Its just dressing up "

And that is all it needs to be " dressing up " ..we live in a time of internet chat rooms and offence ... personally i wouldnt worry to much

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By *ayRosesWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

[Removed by poster at 01/02/20 12:20:21]

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"There's a patriarchy scale?

Honestly, I have no idea, and my Dad was trans, so I really should be more clued up. I just accept people for people, if you like getting dressed up then go for it.

Can I ask a question? What's the difference between a transvestite and a cross dresser? "

Spelling mainly!

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By *ayRosesWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

You acknowledge your AGP - that no more puts you at the top of the patriarchal scale than me wearing men's socks or other clothes because I like them better.

The fact that you ask the question also makes you more self aware and thus less patriarchal than some who are more than happy to abuse gender as a concept.

Tl:dr - you do you, gorgeous and enjoy yourself x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you look at the definition of the patriarchy scale, it’s origins and historical evaluation of the terminology then it’s very subjective, I however believe you are who you are including any alter egos you choose by way of personal choice, be who you are comfortable with and enjoy what brings you pleasure without prejudice and anything that can physically or mentally harm you.

It’s easy to look for complicated answers when feeling pressured to identify.

Be whoever you want and embrace it.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"But can it be like "black face"? It wouldn't be ok for a white guy to black up, so is it ok for a man to dress like a woman, when he knows that he's a man..."

For me it is totally different. One is emulating race and the other sexuality which we are understanding and being totally unique and a veritable fluid minefield........

Surely we know that clothes are the outer.

Pretty difficult for a man to show just how 'slutty' he is dressed in pinstripes or even 501's and a white T shirt come to that.

We can't all conform to stereotype now can we ?

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By *urvyandCurious999Woman
over a year ago

Hiding from twats

"There's a patriarchy scale?

Honestly, I have no idea, and my Dad was trans, so I really should be more clued up. I just accept people for people, if you like getting dressed up then go for it.

Can I ask a question? What's the difference between a transvestite and a cross dresser?

Spelling mainly! "

Ok, so just different terms for the same thing then? No wonder I get confused

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

[Removed by poster at 01/02/20 12:24:20]

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"I would refer you to the scene in the movie " Billy Elliot " where a young Billy visits his friend whilst bunking off school and catches him wearing female clothes ..

" What you doing ? " exclaims Billy ,

" Nothing " replys his young buddy " my dad does it all the time when my mum is out " he explains further " Its just dressing up "

And that is all it needs to be " dressing up " ..we live in a time of internet chat rooms and offence ... personally i wouldnt worry to much "

I'm no expert but I think 'dressing up' is way off the mark. I think the clothes assist a psychological aspect of the sexuality of the individual.

Bit like Prince Harry going to a party and revealing his true self... ( DISCLAIMERRRRRRRR emoji

)

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"But can it be like "black face"? It wouldn't be ok for a white guy to black up, so is it ok for a man to dress like a woman, when he knows that he's a man...

For me it is totally different. One is emulating race and the other sexuality which we are understanding and being totally unique and a veritable fluid minefield........

Surely we know that clothes are the outer.

Pretty difficult for a man to show just how 'slutty' he is dressed in pinstripes or even 501's and a white T shirt come to that.

We can't all conform to stereotype now can we ?

Not sexuality, gender.

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By *ayRosesWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

And according to Stonewall, CDs and TVs come under the trans umbrella and that makes you a trans woman and thus a woman. Rather like Eddie Izzard who got onto the labour committee via an All-Woman Shortlist...

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"And according to Stonewall, CDs and TVs come under the trans umbrella and that makes you a trans woman and thus a woman. Rather like Eddie Izzard who got onto the labour committee via an All-Woman Shortlist..."

Really ? Well they need a bigger fookin' umbrella then.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"But can it be like "black face"? It wouldn't be ok for a white guy to black up, so is it ok for a man to dress like a woman, when he knows that he's a man...

For me it is totally different. One is emulating race and the other sexuality which we are understanding and being totally unique and a veritable fluid minefield........

Surely we know that clothes are the outer.

Pretty difficult for a man to show just how 'slutty' he is dressed in pinstripes or even 501's and a white T shirt come to that.

We can't all conform to stereotype now can we ?

Not sexuality, gender. "

Ta x

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

What a load of bollocks...

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Still going for sexuality though now i've re read it.

I meant sexuality.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He's not a woman

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

What a load of bollocks..."

Exactly...... so can Izzard truly be ........ he's got boobs now I believe. Don't know if they are padded or enlargements..... but boobs he has.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well if I am going to be 100% completely honest with you Jennie I would have to say ... I have no idea your question means.

He just means that dressing up like a woman turns him on. Is that demeaning to real women or other men like him who think they are women. That's his question. "

Oh I see, my answer then is dunno

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There's a patriarchy scale?

Honestly, I have no idea, and my Dad was trans, so I really should be more clued up. I just accept people for people, if you like getting dressed up then go for it.

Can I ask a question? What's the difference between a transvestite and a cross dresser?

Spelling mainly!

Ok, so just different terms for the same thing then? No wonder I get confused

If there was supposedly any difference ( and theres probably not , a Transvestite was deemed to be more of a female impersonator , full make up , hair heels the lot , and a cross dresser was a man just wearing female clothes . However its a very blurred line ..I actually like the word Transvestite , so prefer to use that term

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Fuck me.......... it's GENDER

Ta x

Just re read it.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

He's not a woman

This is the power of the patriarchy. Men can be women whenever we like.

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By *ayRosesWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

What a load of bollocks..."

The statement I made or what Izzard did? How do you view Alex Drummond or Karen White?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

[Removed by poster at 01/02/20 12:33:33]

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

He's not a woman

This is the power of the patriarchy. Men can be women whenever we like. "

I'm a bloke for the rest of the day.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

He's not a woman

This is the power of the patriarchy. Men can be women whenever we like.

I'm a bloke for the rest of the day. "

I notice they waited until the retirement ages were aligned before allowing self identification of gender.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

What a load of bollocks...

The statement I made or what Izzard did? How do you view Alex Drummond or Karen White?"

The policy.

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By *ayRosesWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

What a load of bollocks...

The statement I made or what Izzard did? How do you view Alex Drummond or Karen White?"

Or even better Pip Bunce? Someone who dresses as a man half the week and a woman the other half, but made it onto a list of top 100 women executives? Doesn't take a pay cut for half the week though

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By *ayRosesWoman
over a year ago

Edinburgh

He's not a woman

This is the power of the patriarchy. Men can be women whenever we like.

I'm a bloke for the rest of the day.

I notice they waited until the retirement ages were aligned before allowing self identification of gender. "

They haven't yet - it's still not legal, but common practice.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

He's not a woman

This is the power of the patriarchy. Men can be women whenever we like.

I'm a bloke for the rest of the day.

I notice they waited until the retirement ages were aligned before allowing self identification of gender. "

Always methods and agendas.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some men dress up in nappies, doesn't make them a baby

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"Some men dress up in nappies, doesn't make them a baby "

True dat.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

Should it really matter what clothes someone wears?

Personally I'm a jeans, hoodie & boots type and don't shave either but that doesn't make me a man now does it? I have no desire to have a cock.

My kid wears both girls & boys clothes cos she likes the designs I.e dinosaur prints & dresses.

Clothes are clothes folk need to stop judging by them & see the person behind

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By *ust PeachyWoman
over a year ago

Prestonish

I certainly wouldn’t see it as demeaning to women. I’d see it as complimentary if anything. Not that you want to be a woman - you’ve made that clear in your op - but that you seem to feel more sexy and desirable in a female persona.

Tbh I think many women are the same - those of us who don’t wear makeup/heels/dresses on a daily basis put on feminine effects (probably the wrong word but hopefully you get the gist?) to feel feminine, sexy and attractive! In the swinging world I’ve got a totally different persona for that - Peachy as opposed to E*****!

If you’re a chap with bi tendencies - I can see how it would be the same!

With regard to cross dresser or transvestite - I see a cross dresser as someone who simply dons the dress, shoes etc - and a transvestite as someone who goes all out with clothes, makeup, shaving wigs etc to make themselves look and feel completely feminine.

That’s just my personal viewpoint though of course!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I certainly wouldn’t see it as demeaning to women. I’d see it as complimentary if anything. Not that you want to be a woman - you’ve made that clear in your op - but that you seem to feel more sexy and desirable in a female persona.

If you’re a chap with bi tendencies - I can see how it would be the same!

That’s just my personal viewpoint though of course!

I think your TV vs CD definition is where it stands for many people. Very interchangeable though.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Can I ask a question? What's the difference between a transvestite and a cross dresser?

Faux leopard skin?"

Actually it's the sequin to leopard print ratio if we are being technical

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

He's not a woman

This is the power of the patriarchy. Men can be women whenever we like.

I'm a bloke for the rest of the day. "

Fair dos mate!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Because you've identified here as a TV then you'll always be she or her to me. It's something my dom and I make a habit of. If you'd listed as male but with crossdressing as an interest then you'd be he or him.

Demeaning women? No? How? I'm all for everyone doing what gets them off as often as possible.

Oh and I think you're awesome. You're funny and you geek out over music and you're positive and kind and friendly. I couldn't care less if you were wearing a bear costume, I'd still wanna hang out with you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To me personally, yes, I think TV's and similar are appropriating and perpetuating sexist stereotypes. Like a caricature of women.

I'm a woman as dictated by my biology, I don't think it should be a costume.

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By *hloevtTV/TS
over a year ago

norwich

I do it because it makes me feel pretty in side, anything else is a bonus, but it gives you a special understanding as it's bloody hard work xx

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

It's clothes that's all.

I think what you do and how you treat people indicates your attitude towards them and your place on the patriarchy scale.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"To me personally, yes, I think TV's and similar are appropriating and perpetuating sexist stereotypes. Like a caricature of women.

I'm a woman as dictated by my biology, I don't think it should be a costume."

That's an honest reply and I am surprised there weren't more like this. I respect your view and to a certain degree I do understand it x

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Because you've identified here as a TV then you'll always be she or her to me. It's something my dom and I make a habit of. If you'd listed as male but with crossdressing as an interest then you'd be he or him.

Demeaning women? No? How? I'm all for everyone doing what gets them off as often as possible.

I would have PMd to say thank you more personally... but I am blocked!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I do it because it makes me feel pretty in side, anything else is a bonus, but it gives you a special understanding as it's bloody hard work xx "

Amen to that x

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"So here's one for you.

I am a transvestite. I dont identify as transgender or transsexual. My motivation is primarily fetishistic and sexual.

I therefore chose to adopt the sexualised element of femininity for my own gratification.

Does that put me towards the top of the patriarchy scale? Am I demeaning women or am I in a position to empathise?

I am now running for cover

Olympic swimmer Sharon Davies might well agree with you. She had some strong views about drag queens last year.

I couldn't give a flying one to be honest.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m not sure but I do know you look great in your pics

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

This is such an interesting and thought provoking question OP. When you see the news and see celebrities being accused of cultural appropriation such as Jesy from little mix with her dreads or Katie Perry dressing as a native American. I can see how it can be taken as such.

In all honesty I don't know enough to answer your question, it's something I'm going to have to go away and have a think about. Awesome question it's making me think

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By *uenevereWoman
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

I don't feel demeaned by anyone's choice of clothing.

If you enjoy it, that's all that matters.

You also seem to be a lovely person.

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By *uietlykinkymeWoman
over a year ago

kinky land

Wear what you want

I will

Kink has taught me to address someone based on how they present, so a skirt and top and I would use 'she' and 'he' for the opposite; with 'they' when it is not as obvious.

One of the limits with the fabs label option is how restricted it is. Without you stating in your profile which you prefer it is easier for someone to get it wrong.

Do you prefer she or he? Because it's about you really

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Demeaning women? No? How? I'm all for everyone doing what gets them off as often as possible.

I would have PMd to say thank you more personally... but I am blocked!

Fixed it x

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Wear what you want

I will

Kink has taught me to address someone based on how they present, so a skirt and top and I would use 'she' and 'he' for the opposite; with 'they' when it is not as obvious.

One of the limits with the fabs label option is how restricted it is. Without you stating in your profile which you prefer it is easier for someone to get it wrong.

Do you prefer she or he? Because it's about you really

I prefer she, but not about to declare war over personal pronouns! X

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I don't feel demeaned by anyone's choice of clothing.

If you enjoy it, that's all that matters.

You also seem to be a lovely person. "

Nah! I am an arse

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