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Euthanasia

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Earlier this year the House of Lords ruled that Debbie Purdy (she suffers from MS) had a right to know if her husband was likely to be prosecuted for assisting her to commit suicide (to date around 117 UK citizens have travelled to the Dignitas clinic in Switzerland so that their loved ones can help them to end their lives - none of these relatives has been prosecuted).

Today the Director Of Public Prosecutions In England has attempted to clarify the circumstances in which people are likely to be prosecuted for assisting someone to commit suicide.

Do you think that there should be a euthanasia law passed here in the UK?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep...every country should have their own clinic!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes...

If 3 doctors can confirm its terminal and someone decides when themselves, with no undue pressure, who's business is it other than the person suffering?

We don't allow dogs/animals to suffer... Why humans?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agreed Notts...and why if they are that ill and ready to die...should they have to travel to Switzerland???? Thats wrong and an extra worry really.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes...

If 3 doctors can confirm its terminal and someone decides when themselves, with no undue pressure, who's business is it other than the person suffering?

We don't allow dogs/animals to suffer... Why humans? "

Totally agree

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

O o O oo

I think there is a good enough argument for it.

We watched our mother die, we all knew she was terminal, she went into a coma like existance for the last week of her life and although she was doped up with morphine, everytime a nurse touched any part of her body she winced with the pain.

Why prolong the agony when they are going to die anyway and very soon? It is cruel and not just to the patient.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Again this afternoon I havent been listening to radio 2 and didnt hear that the arguement against people being allowed to assit thier loved ones coming across as slightly pathetic and with no real substance, all what if's .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can be quite sensible you know.. Having seen someone very close suffer recently and discussed this with them while very ill its a subject close to heart.. I would have assisted and taken the consequences if asked... There fear for MY future is the only thing that stopped it... so suffer they did!!!

Thats wrong, so very wrong!

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod

over a year ago

Did anyone watch that programme about the university lecturer who travelled to the Dignitas clinic in Austria to die after being diagnosed with MD?

It was very thought provoking and I agreed with his choice wholeheartly,however the actual process was'nt very dignified and not what many including myself would have considered a perfect ending..........very clinical and overtaken with redtape

the programme also looked at an eldery couple that wanted to die together when one of them was totally healthy and the other had very few health problems,they were turned down by the clinic

I believe that something has to be in place but sadly like most things,there will be those that want to profit from it and what about those who don't have the mental capacity to agree or understand the proceedure?

are you talking just adults? what about children? who has the right to decide to behalf of people that can't consent?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

im all for it

i spent 2 years nursing my dad with lung caner and sat for four hrs while he died in my arms

unless youve been there its very hard to understand and i think that if a person is told that their illness is terminal then they should be able to make their owns minds up when they wont to go

after all we wouldnt let our pets sufer so why do we allow it with our loved ones

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

O o O oo


"Did anyone watch that programme about the university lecturer who travelled to the Dignitas clinic in Austria to die after being diagnosed with MD?

It was very thought provoking and I agreed with his choice wholeheartly,however the actual process was'nt very dignified and not what many including myself would have considered a perfect ending..........very clinical and overtaken with redtape

the programme also looked at an eldery couple that wanted to die together when one of them was totally healthy and the other had very few health problems,they were turned down by the clinic

I believe that something has to be in place but sadly like most things,there will be those that want to profit from it and what about those who don't have the mental capacity to agree or understand the proceedure?

are you talking just adults? what about children? who has the right to decide to behalf of people that can't consent?

"

It is a minefield and one where I hope never to be in the situation again, but I do think if someone is diagnosed as terminal then they should have a choice of wether they want to or not.

I suppose at times it is better to hand it over to the doctors, when my father was dying and they kept resusitating him knowing every organ in his body had given up anyway, they asked us did they want to bring him back the next time.

None of us could actually bring ourselves to say the word no, but all spoke after and said that to stop the suffering we wanted to say it.

I am guessing the doctors took it in their own hands as we couldn't answer, and he died the next time he crashed.

I think it has to be if they are dying anyway, not the likes of the couple who wanted to die together just because and not because there was something wrong with them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally speaking.. I think Doctors and certain nurses are already assisting in certain caes anyway..

I think once the pumps are fitted to a person to stop severe pain, they already know eh!! I just think its a matter of time before the law changes in anycase...

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

O o O oo


"Personally speaking.. I think Doctors and certain nurses are already assisting in certain caes anyway..

I think once the pumps are fitted to a person to stop severe pain, they already know eh!! I just think its a matter of time before the law changes in anycase...

"

Yes I would agree with that.

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod

over a year ago

Im very much for it and would do the same for myself if I was diagnosed with a progressive and terminal illness,the clinic in Austria states that the person must be able to administer the medication themselves,no-one else must be allowed to do it and the person preparing the drug asks the same question everytime " if you drink this you will die do you undserstand this?" before giving it to them

So to fit the criteria you have to be at a stage in your illness where you are able to at least take a drink by yourself and answer the question

With resucitation orders in hospitals,I find that the doctors I work with are very good at talking either with families or patients to find out what is wanted,resucitation is not a nice thing to experience and they will try to prevent having to do that if there is little chance of survival

its a very difficult and emotive subject

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Dad collapsed a few years ago...after a couple of days we were told by two seperate consultants that he would not recover. After considering whether or not to smother him with a pillow,to put his fitting to an end, we asked the doc to up his morphine to try and "relax" him...doc advised against it, but at our insistence he upped the dose, he died peacefully when his heart stopped shortly after.

We knew dad would not want to be left in this condition, and I for one had no problem with making this decision.

It did get me thinking about this subject.

I looked at the Holland model as it is the one that everyone always mentions.

The dutch courts set guidleines back in the late 1980's, therse were:-

1. The patient must be experiencing unbearable pain.

2. The patient must be conscious.

3. The death request must be voluntary.

4. The patient must have been given alternatives to euthanasia and time to consider these alternatives.

5. There must be no other reasonable solutions to the problem.

6. The patient's death cannot inflict unnecessary suffering on others.

7. There must be more than one person involved in the euthanasia decision.

8. Only a doctor can euthanize a patient.

9. Great care must be taken in actually making the death decision.

Through various legal challenges in the Dutch Courts the pool of candidates has grown from the terminally ill, to the chronically ill, to those who are mentally suffering.

In 2001 the UN Human Rights Committee reported on the Holland experience. The report expressed grave concerns about the situation there.

It was concerned that the system may fail to detect and prevent situations where undue pressure could lead to these criteria being circumvented and that, with the passage of time, such a practice may lead to routinization and insensitivity to the strict application of the requirements in a way not anticipated.

With regard to children there were concerns expressed that the law is also applicable to minors who have reached the age of 12 years. The law provides for the consent of parents or guardians of juveniles up to 16 years of age, while for those between 16 and 18 the parents' or guardian's consent may be replaced by the will of the minor, provided that the minor can appropriately assess his or her interests in the matter. It considered it difficult to reconcile a reasoned decision to terminate life with the evolving and maturing capacities of minors.

The Dutch define "euthanasia" in a very limited way: "Euthanasia is understood [as] an action which aims at taking the life of another at the latter's expressed request. It concerns an action of which death is the purpose and the result." This definition applies only to voluntary euthanasia and excludes what the rest of the world refers to as non-voluntary or involuntary euthanasia, the killing of a patient without the patient's knowledge or consent. The Dutch call this "life-terminating treatment."

Some physicians use this distinction between "euthanasia" and "life-terminating treatment" to avoid having a patient's death classified as "euthanasia," thus freeing doctors from following the established euthanasia guidelines and reporting the death to local authorities.

In 1991 the Remmenlink Report was published in Holland. It found that in 1990 2,300 people died as the result of doctors killing them upon request (active, voluntary euthanasia).

400 people died as a result of doctors providing them with the means to kill themselves (physician-assisted suicide).

1,040 people (an average of 3 per day) died from involuntary euthanasia, meaning that doctors actively killed these patients without the patients' knowledge or consent.

14% of these patients were fully competent.

72% had never given any indication that they would want their lives terminated.

In 8% of the cases, doctors performed involuntary euthanasia despite the fact that they believed alternative options were still possible.

In addition, 8,100 patients died as a result of doctors deliberately giving them overdoses of pain medication, not for the primary purpose of controlling pain, but to hasten the patient's death.

In 61% of these cases (4,941 patients), the intentional overdose was given without the patient's consent.

The European Court of Human Rights have been asked several times by UK citizens to rule on this issue in their favour. The Courts have conceded that Article 8 of the Convention of Human Rights, the right to a private and family life, is capable of applying to tha final moments of someone's life. However, they have not conceded that Article 2, the right to life, can be extended to the right to die.

Currently a person has the right to refuse treatment ie ventilation or resucitation. They can be given pain relieving treatment and can die in the most dignified way in law. I was lucky in that my father collapsed, did not regain consiousness and died only a couple of days later. I have not had to watch a close family member suffer over a long period.

Taking things into consideration I believe that by legislating for euthanasia, even with tight guidelines, you are opening the door for legal challenges to have the law interpreted more loosely. In short, it will be the thin end of the wedge.

I think that this would be dangerous for our society.

With regard to Dignitas I think that it is interesting to note it is looking to tighten it's rules as it has become increasingly concerned about the growth and effect of euthanasia tourism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

IMHO, we treat our pets better by allowing them to be put down rather than to see them suffer.

So why can't we do it for people?

When the time comes, when I have lost my ability to enjoy the pleasures of life, or be able to understand what is happening around me, or be able to recognise my loved ones, then I would not hesitate to terminate my own life.

If any of my loved ones ask me to do the same for them, I would not hesitate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

on the news now,

a guy took his wife from a care home( they planned all this together and put her on a pvt plane to switzerland. she flew alone so her hubby wouldnt get prosecuted.

bless him.....

now his only regret was not being by her side when she died

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By *ebzStarWoman
over a year ago

Notting

What a subject and one that i find i have to sit on the fence for.

As a family member who has seen 2 people go through hell, one taking 6 months to die, and seeing the stress it caused my dad who just wanted a gun and would have done time for it.

BUT on the other side of the coin....

The abuse of the system would easily occur, laws are broken every day as it is so there would be loop holes and dodgy guidelines.

When pets are put to sleep - yes it is usually terminal, the pat has gone through tremndous pain and suffering and usually has no quality of life left - BUT THE PET HAS NO CHOICE in that decision. Sometimes this decision is made due to costs, or the owner not being able to cope.

The other down side of euthenasing a close pet is THE GUILT.

Did i put him to sleep too soon, would he have lasted a week longer, would he have managed over xmas (a big time when pets put to sleep is just before or just after xmas) have i done the right thing.

The feeling of guilt often is stronger then the feeling of grief - even when there is also a feeling of relief.

Euthenasia is already abused in pets - eg 10,000 healthy Staffordshire Bull Terriers are put down a year in Battersea Dogs Home alone, as they cant rehome them.

So when our hospitals are overflowing and there are no beds, and there are sick or elderly people in them, what is to say that the same thing wouldnt happen there????

And if Euthenasia was "the norm" who would question it????

So on the fence it is for me - me and my ass full of splinters!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I work with mainly old people and those with dementia and alzheimers.

And to watch someone with early stages and to see them slowly disappear inside themselves is the most distressing thing to see.

I have actually said i would rather end it than suffer like they do. And believe me they do, every day.

Im not saying that we "do away" with thses folk, bt i can understand the suffering from both sides.

Maybe "living Wills" should be taken more seriously by the courts .

Because it matters not what you write down as for own personal wishes , and YOUR life etc,

Your family, the courts can over turn it.

It must be the hardest decision anyone ever has to make.

I dont envy them at all.

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