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Flooring advice

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham

Had the floor in my house levelled (level it 2), then fitted underfloor heating boards and a wet UFH system.

The UFH company then recommended levelling over the whole lot with level it 2 prior to the final LVT being fitted. This has been levelled by a flooring contractor.

I’m really sceptical about the LVT being fitted (as it’s cost will be £2 - 3k) as I can hear cracking noises on the levelled floor as it’s walked on. Surely it shouldn’t be making these noises if it had taken correctly?

Anyone on here a really good flooring specialist that can advise me please? I’ve spent a lot of money getting to where I am and want to find a way that it can get finished now.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

A bit of old Lino did my gran good for years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are the ufh boards fixed down or are they floating? Also was there a specified thickness for the self leveling compound to be applied on top and was it adhered to?

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!


"Are the ufh boards fixed down or are they floating? Also was there a specified thickness for the self leveling compound to be applied on top and was it adhered to? "

Haha!

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham


"Are the ufh boards fixed down or are they floating? Also was there a specified thickness for the self leveling compound to be applied on top and was it adhered to? "

The boards were metal topped polystyrene boards that were stuck down using the manufacturers spray adhesive.

I’m guessing the recommendation was adhered to as the flooring company have contracts with level it 2.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So im currently extending/renovating my full house top to bottom. Ive fitted wet unfloor heating throughout the whole property. The ground floor is around 300 sq metered ive zoned each room.

Once the floor was finished in concrete i fitted 150mm insulation with silver foil backing, then fitted the grid & pipe work. Once that was done i had the whole floor 'screeded' (self levelled) this takes ages to dry and has to dry naturally else it cracks. After thats done and dry you shouldnt beable to hear any crunching ect, its like walking on solid floor. Im leaving it 6 weeks before i fit the floor covering.

Hope this helps

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham


"So im currently extending/renovating my full house top to bottom. Ive fitted wet unfloor heating throughout the whole property. The ground floor is around 300 sq metered ive zoned each room.

Once the floor was finished in concrete i fitted 150mm insulation with silver foil backing, then fitted the grid & pipe work. Once that was done i had the whole floor 'screeded' (self levelled) this takes ages to dry and has to dry naturally else it cracks. After thats done and dry you shouldnt beable to hear any crunching ect, its like walking on solid floor. Im leaving it 6 weeks before i fit the floor covering.

Hope this helps"

Thanks. It was done months and months ago. The flooring was solid to start with. 20mm panels laid on to and then 3-5mm applied on top. The advice was to leave the empty “slots” empty so the compound could flow in there too. The bit of advice I’m not happy with was your tape (using aluminium tape) between the boards. This advice was to stop the flooring flowing down the gaps and touching the sub floor. My issue with this is that I’m sure that having “pockets” under the compound will cause “weak spots” in the covering. I can’t think that’s an ideal situation at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Judo chop to the throat clean right cross on the jaw a bat to the back of the head all very effective flooring techniques

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Are the ufh boards fixed down or are they floating? Also was there a specified thickness for the self leveling compound to be applied on top and was it adhered to?

The boards were metal topped polystyrene boards that were stuck down using the manufacturers spray adhesive.

I’m guessing the recommendation was adhered to as the flooring company have contracts with level it 2."

Check the compatability, suitabilty and installation recommendations of all of the products you have used as it sounds like your install has not been properly designed and specced and just pieced together as you go along.

There are so many different products, systems and installation methods all with their own do's and dont's. You really have to choose wisely and plan the whole install before committing.

If there is crunching noises or any kind of movement i would say something is not right and you need to speak to the manufacturers of each productyou have used to find out if everything was installed properly and appropriate for your situation.

Fixing it properly will likely mean starting again which is why it is so important to design it properly in the first place.

There may be work arounds depending on the faults but they will come with no guarantees.

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham


"Are the ufh boards fixed down or are they floating? Also was there a specified thickness for the self leveling compound to be applied on top and was it adhered to?

The boards were metal topped polystyrene boards that were stuck down using the manufacturers spray adhesive.

I’m guessing the recommendation was adhered to as the flooring company have contracts with level it 2.

Check the compatability, suitabilty and installation recommendations of all of the products you have used as it sounds like your install has not been properly designed and specced and just pieced together as you go along.

There are so many different products, systems and installation methods all with their own do's and dont's. You really have to choose wisely and plan the whole install before committing.

If there is crunching noises or any kind of movement i would say something is not right and you need to speak to the manufacturers of each productyou have used to find out if everything was installed properly and appropriate for your situation.

Fixing it properly will likely mean starting again which is why it is so important to design it properly in the first place.

There may be work arounds depending on the faults but they will come with no guarantees.

"

That’s my concern. Everything was chosen based on what each of the manufacturers specified. All of the installations were done according to their recommendations and requirements. But yes, I agree that there shouldn’t be any noise under foot proper to the final covering being fitted. The manufacturer of the level on compound did a site visit and said it was fine and the cracking noise wasn’t anything to worry about. I disagree. Not sure what to do if they are saying it’s fine to continue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Are the ufh boards fixed down or are they floating? Also was there a specified thickness for the self leveling compound to be applied on top and was it adhered to?

The boards were metal topped polystyrene boards that were stuck down using the manufacturers spray adhesive.

I’m guessing the recommendation was adhered to as the flooring company have contracts with level it 2.

Check the compatability, suitabilty and installation recommendations of all of the products you have used as it sounds like your install has not been properly designed and specced and just pieced together as you go along.

There are so many different products, systems and installation methods all with their own do's and dont's. You really have to choose wisely and plan the whole install before committing.

If there is crunching noises or any kind of movement i would say something is not right and you need to speak to the manufacturers of each productyou have used to find out if everything was installed properly and appropriate for your situation.

Fixing it properly will likely mean starting again which is why it is so important to design it properly in the first place.

There may be work arounds depending on the faults but they will come with no guarantees.

That’s my concern. Everything was chosen based on what each of the manufacturers specified. All of the installations were done according to their recommendations and requirements. But yes, I agree that there shouldn’t be any noise under foot proper to the final covering being fitted. The manufacturer of the level on compound did a site visit and said it was fine and the cracking noise wasn’t anything to worry about. I disagree. Not sure what to do if they are saying it’s fine to continue."

Speak to the manufacturer of the ufh to confirm what type of slc and thickness, primer etc.

Get the slc rep to confirm in writing that the crunching is acceptable.

The trouble you will have is that you have used different manufacturers and installers/contractors throughout. They will all pass blame, especially so if you have instructed them how to proceed or chosen materials.

There is also the question of the quality of the actual workmanship. If the initial slc was not perfectly level, this could lead to voids under the ufh boards. As they where fitted with spray adhesive it is not thick enough to accommodate any voids.

Was the correct primer used throughout and applied strictly to manfacturers instructions?

The final layer of slc may vary in thickness and not be the desired thickness in places, if at all. It may have been mixed with too much water and have weakened the finished product.

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham

The UFH company only recommend two SLC’s that are suitable. The local flooring contractor use the level it 2 one so they were happy to lay it.

There were now gaps under the boards and they adhered to the sub floor perfectly with no movement and complete adhesion. The boards were primed worthy the SLC’s own primer and the mixture was perfect as they supply the fluid to mix it with. It’s 1:1 bag of compound to their fluid.

The manufacturer of the SLC emailed saying the hairline cracks were ok and after inspecting the floor it’s ready for the LVT. I on the other hand, am not happy that cracking noises can be heard. My guess is that the noises are form where the boards join and the advice to “tape the joints” was poor advice for from the UFH company. Having said that, the flooring contractor (who are approved by the SLC manufacturer) were happy with the preparation and happy to lay the SLC.

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By *ab50Man
over a year ago

bexhill

Can u confirm what you refer to as "LVT"..

As previously said.. Wet ufh usually goes on insulation then a thick screed over.. This creates a thermal mass.. I have fitted wet system under wooden floors using allunminium plated.. How thick is the leveling compound over the pipes? And how long did u leave until turning on..?

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham

Luxury vinyl tiles. Brands include Amtico, Karndean etc.

The wet UFH are 20mm thick polystyrene tiles with aluminium tops. They have pre cut slots for the UFH pipe to sit it. Once this is laid it can then be primed and SLC applied on top.

It’s not a traditional wet UFH install that goes into screed etc.

The levelling compound was left to dry out before before the heating used.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the boards are stuck properly without voids then there should be no movement, noises or cracks.

Are the cracks following the board joins or are they like crazy paving?

What thickness was specified for the slc?

What boards did you put down?

If everything is done to spec maybe they are just crap. Maybe too soft polysturene.

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham

The cracks and noises follow the boards perfectly. They aren’t perfect lines but you can clearly see where the boards join.

The SLC was specified at 3-15mm which is what has been achieved.

The boards are EPS-400 boards that are a solid polystyrene.

My guess is that the advice given my the UFH company to tape up the joints is very bad advice. They advise this because they say that SLC that runs between the boards and comes into contact with the subfloor with be at a different temperature and therefore expand/contract incorrectly.

To me, this advice is poor at it means that between the boards there’s some small gaps, aluminium tape over it and then screen on top. Eg... leaving pockets of air between the boards under the screed.

This advice will have been put tougher in combination with the SLC product that they recommend.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ok it sounds like the screed has failed, this is usually a 3mm self levelling compound, just a question, the heating should have been turned off 24 hours before installation.Also did the contractor us a H/T adhesive. looks llike part of it needs taking up to see whats really happened. perhaps a flexi screed should have been used too

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By *ab50Man
over a year ago

bexhill

In my opinion a 3-15mm slc poured over a flexible substrate is nowhere near strong enough to support any load.. The fact that the cracks follow the joins proves that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just needs a couple of planks uplifting to find out whats happened, the contractor is responsible for this, I can see the whole floor being uplifted and relaying using the correct prep.

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham

Yes, heating was off for days before and days afterwards.

H/T adhesive used where?

The boards were stuck down with the manufacturers adhesive. The levelling compound was...

“UltraFloor Level IT Two is a general purpose, mid strength, two-part smoothing underlayment. Its exceptional flow characteristics make it a very easy material to apply to a variety of subfloors in both commercial and domestic flooring projects.”

Which is one of the two recommended by the UFH manufacturer and it’s endorsed by the SLC manufacturer too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fluid based under floor heating systems will usually be screeded over then have the surface prepped for chosen flooring. It gives the substrate strength and reduces cold spots. The usual screed depth will be between 75-100mm thick, the levelling compound depends on the quality and skill of the screeder. Get the prep wrong and you can right off the final covering as scrap....hope this helps

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham


"Fluid based under floor heating systems will usually be screeded over then have the surface prepped for chosen flooring. It gives the substrate strength and reduces cold spots. The usual screed depth will be between 75-100mm thick, the levelling compound depends on the quality and skill of the screeder. Get the prep wrong and you can right off the final covering as scrap....hope this helps"

Thanks but this is not the type of UFH that was fitted. It was 20mm boards as opposed to the traditional installation which is what you’ve mentioned in the screen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In my opinion a 3-15mm slc poured over a flexible substrate is nowhere near strong enough to support any load.. The fact that the cracks follow the joins proves that."

I would agree however looking at the data sheets for the ufh boards it does indeed say minimum 3mm for the level it screed when going under lvt/karndean/amtico. (Interestingly 5mm for mapei rennovation screed).

I wouldnt trust it though.

Op should get wundaboard out to look at it and explain themselves if he is sure everything is done properly and the slc is definately minimum thickness across all of the floor.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ok H/T is a hight temp adhesive to cope with the heat. As a Tier 1 Amtico retailer just trying to get an idea of whats gone on here, can i ask which brand of LVT was fitted?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In my opinion a 3-15mm slc poured over a flexible substrate is nowhere near strong enough to support any load.. The fact that the cracks follow the joins proves that.

I would agree however looking at the data sheets for the ufh boards it does indeed say minimum 3mm for the level it screed when going under lvt/karndean/amtico. (Interestingly 5mm for mapei rennovation screed).

I wouldnt trust it though.

Op should get wundaboard out to look at it and explain themselves if he is sure everything is done properly and the slc is definately minimum thickness across all of the floor.

"

Another thing, you havent told us is what type of floor you have installed this over. Is it concrete or timber? I assumed concrete due to you levelling it first but best to clarify.

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham


"Ok H/T is a hight temp adhesive to cope with the heat. As a Tier 1 Amtico retailer just trying to get an idea of whats gone on here, can i ask which brand of LVT was fitted?"

Sorry, the LVT hasn’t gone down yet. Having spent £1.5k to get the sub floor level. £5k on the UFH and £1k to level on top of the UFH I don’t want to put more money into it if I can hear cracking (which I can).

I don’t know why the SLC have recommended that it’s fine and it’s ready to fit the LVT. Surely if cracking noises can be heard it’s not a good idea to proceed?

Thanks

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham


"In my opinion a 3-15mm slc poured over a flexible substrate is nowhere near strong enough to support any load.. The fact that the cracks follow the joins proves that.

I would agree however looking at the data sheets for the ufh boards it does indeed say minimum 3mm for the level it screed when going under lvt/karndean/amtico. (Interestingly 5mm for mapei rennovation screed).

I wouldnt trust it though.

Op should get wundaboard out to look at it and explain themselves if he is sure everything is done properly and the slc is definately minimum thickness across all of the floor.

Another thing, you havent told us is what type of floor you have installed this over. Is it concrete or timber? I assumed concrete due to you levelling it first but best to clarify."

Yes, concrete subfloor that was levelled with level it 2 first as recommend by the UFH manufacturer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Had the floor in my house levelled (level it 2), then fitted underfloor heating boards and a wet UFH system.

The UFH company then recommended levelling over the whole lot with level it 2 prior to the final LVT being fitted. This has been levelled by a flooring contractor.

I’m really sceptical about the LVT being fitted (as it’s cost will be £2 - 3k) as I can hear cracking noises on the levelled floor as it’s walked on. Surely it shouldn’t be making these noises if it had taken correctly?

Anyone on here a really good flooring specialist that can advise me please? I’ve spent a lot of money getting to where I am and want to find a way that it can get finished now."
cracking means movement so its obviously not correctly done and do you mean self levelling compound?

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By *ab50Man
over a year ago

bexhill

Just lloked at the wundatherm website... What board is on top of the pipe work under the slc..?

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham


"Just lloked at the wundatherm website... What board is on top of the pipe work under the slc..? "

It’s wundafloor EPS 400 that’s fitted.

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham


"Had the floor in my house levelled (level it 2), then fitted underfloor heating boards and a wet UFH system.

The UFH company then recommended levelling over the whole lot with level it 2 prior to the final LVT being fitted. This has been levelled by a flooring contractor.

I’m really sceptical about the LVT being fitted (as it’s cost will be £2 - 3k) as I can hear cracking noises on the levelled floor as it’s walked on. Surely it shouldn’t be making these noises if it had taken correctly?

Anyone on here a really good flooring specialist that can advise me please? I’ve spent a lot of money getting to where I am and want to find a way that it can get finished now.cracking means movement so its obviously not correctly done and do you mean self levelling compound? "

Yes SLC.

My thought is that the gaps between the board that have been taped with aluminium tape is where the cracking noises come from. They were taped as requested by the UFH manufacturer as they said that the SlC shouldn’t go between the boards and onto the sub base.

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By *ab50Man
over a year ago

bexhill


"Ok H/T is a hight temp adhesive to cope with the heat. As a Tier 1 Amtico retailer just trying to get an idea of whats gone on here, can i ask which brand of LVT was fitted?

Sorry, the LVT hasn’t gone down yet. Having spent £1.5k to get the sub floor level. £5k on the UFH and £1k to level on top of the UFH I don’t want to put more money into it if I can hear cracking (which I can).

I don’t know why the SLC have recommended that it’s fine and it’s ready to fit the LVT. Surely if cracking noises can be heard it’s not a good idea to proceed?

Thanks"

Those seem like big figures for an U/F heating system

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok H/T is a hight temp adhesive to cope with the heat. As a Tier 1 Amtico retailer just trying to get an idea of whats gone on here, can i ask which brand of LVT was fitted?

Sorry, the LVT hasn’t gone down yet. Having spent £1.5k to get the sub floor level. £5k on the UFH and £1k to level on top of the UFH I don’t want to put more money into it if I can hear cracking (which I can).

I don’t know why the SLC have recommended that it’s fine and it’s ready to fit the LVT. Surely if cracking noises can be heard it’s not a good idea to proceed?

Thanks"

Do you mind if i ask what size of floor we are talking about?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ah right sorry i misread and thought the flooring had been fitted. Theres no way i would put flooring down untile the cracking issue is resolved, its still going to be there if you do. You have already spent a small fortune. As an idea and its up to you but try and contact a local appointed Karndean /Amtico specialist or fitter, they will be able to tell straight away the cause and what needs doing. may cost you a call out chatge but worth it . hope you get sorted !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Had the floor in my house levelled (level it 2), then fitted underfloor heating boards and a wet UFH system.

The UFH company then recommended levelling over the whole lot with level it 2 prior to the final LVT being fitted. This has been levelled by a flooring contractor.

I’m really sceptical about the LVT being fitted (as it’s cost will be £2 - 3k) as I can hear cracking noises on the levelled floor as it’s walked on. Surely it shouldn’t be making these noises if it had taken correctly?

Anyone on here a really good flooring specialist that can advise me please? I’ve spent a lot of money getting to where I am and want to find a way that it can get finished now.cracking means movement so its obviously not correctly done and do you mean self levelling compound?

Yes SLC.

My thought is that the gaps between the board that have been taped with aluminium tape is where the cracking noises come from. They were taped as requested by the UFH manufacturer as they said that the SlC shouldn’t go between the boards and onto the sub base."

It doesnt mention taping the joints in the data sheet but i would consider it good practice to prevent cold/damp bridging. There should be virtually no gap between the boards though surely and a bit of slc inbeteeen is barely going to add any strength.

My thoughs are that either the boards are compressing under pressure due to their low compressive strength or they are not stuck down properly.

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham


"Ok H/T is a hight temp adhesive to cope with the heat. As a Tier 1 Amtico retailer just trying to get an idea of whats gone on here, can i ask which brand of LVT was fitted?

Sorry, the LVT hasn’t gone down yet. Having spent £1.5k to get the sub floor level. £5k on the UFH and £1k to level on top of the UFH I don’t want to put more money into it if I can hear cracking (which I can).

I don’t know why the SLC have recommended that it’s fine and it’s ready to fit the LVT. Surely if cracking noises can be heard it’s not a good idea to proceed?

Thanks

Do you mind if i ask what size of floor we are talking about?"

Sure, the whole area is about 120m2. 60m2 has engineered wood on it and 60m2 has had the 42 bags of SLC on it to prepare for the LVT.

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham


"Ah right sorry i misread and thought the flooring had been fitted. Theres no way i would put flooring down untile the cracking issue is resolved, its still going to be there if you do. You have already spent a small fortune. As an idea and its up to you but try and contact a local appointed Karndean /Amtico specialist or fitter, they will be able to tell straight away the cause and what needs doing. may cost you a call out chatge but worth it . hope you get sorted !"

Yeah exactly. I totally agree and don’t think it should be fitted until sorted. The problem is that the local LVT contractor has been out with the SLC manufacturer and both say it’s ready for the flooring. I am not convinced though.

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By *ab50Man
over a year ago

bexhill

OK... So I've watched the instalation video.. Nowhere does it say about putting leveling compound over the eps boards.. You can tile straight onto the boards. They say about supplying chipboard sheet substrates for certain floor finishes.. I don't think the slc shod be applied straight onto the boards / pipe work.. I think it's this that's cracking.. But it's only my opinion.. The system actually looks quite good for a retrofit system..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Had the floor in my house levelled (level it 2), then fitted underfloor heating boards and a wet UFH system.

The UFH company then recommended levelling over the whole lot with level it 2 prior to the final LVT being fitted. This has been levelled by a flooring contractor.

I’m really sceptical about the LVT being fitted (as it’s cost will be £2 - 3k) as I can hear cracking noises on the levelled floor as it’s walked on. Surely it shouldn’t be making these noises if it had taken correctly?

Anyone on here a really good flooring specialist that can advise me please? I’ve spent a lot of money getting to where I am and want to find a way that it can get finished now.cracking means movement so its obviously not correctly done and do you mean self levelling compound?

Yes SLC.

My thought is that the gaps between the board that have been taped with aluminium tape is where the cracking noises come from. They were taped as requested by the UFH manufacturer as they said that the SlC shouldn’t go between the boards and onto the sub base."
so the underfloor heating pipes are set in polystyrene with a board over?

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham


"Had the floor in my house levelled (level it 2), then fitted underfloor heating boards and a wet UFH system.

The UFH company then recommended levelling over the whole lot with level it 2 prior to the final LVT being fitted. This has been levelled by a flooring contractor.

I’m really sceptical about the LVT being fitted (as it’s cost will be £2 - 3k) as I can hear cracking noises on the levelled floor as it’s walked on. Surely it shouldn’t be making these noises if it had taken correctly?

Anyone on here a really good flooring specialist that can advise me please? I’ve spent a lot of money getting to where I am and want to find a way that it can get finished now.cracking means movement so its obviously not correctly done and do you mean self levelling compound?

Yes SLC.

My thought is that the gaps between the board that have been taped with aluminium tape is where the cracking noises come from. They were taped as requested by the UFH manufacturer as they said that the SlC shouldn’t go between the boards and onto the sub base.so the underfloor heating pipes are set in polystyrene with a board over? "

The pipes are set in the boards and then SLC applied over the top.

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham


"OK... So I've watched the instalation video.. Nowhere does it say about putting leveling compound over the eps boards.. You can tile straight onto the boards. They say about supplying chipboard sheet substrates for certain floor finishes.. I don't think the slc shod be applied straight onto the boards / pipe work.. I think it's this that's cracking.. But it's only my opinion.. The system actually looks quite good for a retrofit system.. "

Doesn’t show it in the videos but both the UFH manufacturer and SLC said that this is the correct preparation prior to LVT fitting.

Yes, it’s a good retro system hence why I chose it after a lot of research and saving up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok H/T is a hight temp adhesive to cope with the heat. As a Tier 1 Amtico retailer just trying to get an idea of whats gone on here, can i ask which brand of LVT was fitted?

Sorry, the LVT hasn’t gone down yet. Having spent £1.5k to get the sub floor level. £5k on the UFH and £1k to level on top of the UFH I don’t want to put more money into it if I can hear cracking (which I can).

I don’t know why the SLC have recommended that it’s fine and it’s ready to fit the LVT. Surely if cracking noises can be heard it’s not a good idea to proceed?

Thanks

Do you mind if i ask what size of floor we are talking about?

Sure, the whole area is about 120m2. 60m2 has engineered wood on it and 60m2 has had the 42 bags of SLC on it to prepare for the LVT."
does the whole area have ufh?

The things i would be checking are the thickness of the final slc to see if it offers enough strength on top of the polystyrene.

The adhesion of the slc to the polystyrene. (The aluminium foil on the boards is not an ideal suface to stick to)

The adhesion of the polystyrene to the slc underneath (if the glue is a contact adhesive there is a proper procedure for using it. Dust, damp and/or laitence can also prevent proper bonding)

The adhesion of the first layer of slc to the substrate underneath (Was there any bitumen on top of the concrete, was it primed properly? Was it grease and dust free?)

To resolve the crunching noise you could install hardie backer or no more ply bedded on suitable adhesive and primer. It will give strength to the floor and should stop movement as long as it is not too great.

Not a cheap fix but cheaper than ripping it all up if you cant get wundaboard or the contractors to remedy it.

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham

Yes, the whole area has UFH fitted at the same time.

The sub floor was a good concrete finish which was primed well and the levelled. The levelled floor was then throughly cleaned and wiped clear of dust and hovered meticulously to make sure it was totally clear. The solvent used to bond the panels to the floor was done correctly.

Interestingly, there’s an area where is can get to the boards (in the 1/2 of the house where the engineered wood is) and I’ve tried testing the bond to the floor and they are stuck SOLID and won’t move at all.

The layer of SLC on top of the boards seems fine. Yes, a few hairline cracks but that’s to be expected. No cracking noises or movement at all. I even had a long debate with the UFH & SLC companies about the possibility of filling empty channels with pipe offcuts to save money (on SLC bags). They couldn’t explain why not to do this but said that it shouldn’t be done. I took their advice and didn’t fill them with pipe off cuts.

The adhesion to the boards/aluminium I’m guessing would have been achieved using their (expensive) “prime it” primer. Again I thought that’d using a shed primer would have been ok but decided it best to use their approved stuff. It seems to have bonded well using it.

My concern using another layer on top (backer boards etc) is that it’s building up the height even further (it’ll encroach onto external door thresholds) and it’ll also stop the promotion of under floor heat penetrating the flooring to fill the room.

The local guy from Level IT 2 came out to see it with the flooring contractor and said it was fine. I don’t known really how to say otherwise. I think we all agree on here that there should it be any cracking noises evident prior to laying the final covering.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/12/19 23:26:51]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes, the whole area has UFH fitted at the same time.

The sub floor was a good concrete finish which was primed well and the levelled. The levelled floor was then throughly cleaned and wiped clear of dust and hovered meticulously to make sure it was totally clear. The solvent used to bond the panels to the floor was done correctly.

Interestingly, there’s an area where is can get to the boards (in the 1/2 of the house where the engineered wood is) and I’ve tried testing the bond to the floor and they are stuck SOLID and won’t move at all.

The layer of SLC on top of the boards seems fine. Yes, a few hairline cracks but that’s to be expected. No cracking noises or movement at all. I even had a long debate with the UFH & SLC companies about the possibility of filling empty channels with pipe offcuts to save money (on SLC bags). They couldn’t explain why not to do this but said that it shouldn’t be done. I took their advice and didn’t fill them with pipe off cuts.

The adhesion to the boards/aluminium I’m guessing would have been achieved using their (expensive) “prime it” primer. Again I thought that’d using a shed primer would have been ok but decided it best to use their approved stuff. It seems to have bonded well using it.

My concern using another layer on top (backer boards etc) is that it’s building up the height even further (it’ll encroach onto external door thresholds) and it’ll also stop the promotion of under floor heat penetrating the flooring to fill the room.

The local guy from Level IT 2 came out to see it with the flooring contractor and said it was fine. I don’t known really how to say otherwise. I think we all agree on here that there should it be any cracking noises evident prior to laying the final covering.

"

If eveything is stuck down properly then the only source for the crunching noise can be the board compressing due to the slc not providing enough support.

Your choices are to either live with it or strengthen it.

The backer boards comes in 6mm thick plus a few mm for adhesive which should bring your lvt level with the engineered floor.

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By *aptive_audience OP   Man
over a year ago

Nottingham

Yeah true. I guess it will block some heat though? And I would end up having a composite front door and set of aluminium bifold doors to replace as the floor height would be too high with the extra build up.

I’m convinced that the cracking noise it where the joins between the boards have been taped. If there is a gap between the boards that has a gap underneath then this would explain the noise don’t you think?

I don’t think that the cost or adaption should really be picked up by me. Wha do you think?

Do you think the best course of action now is to get back to the SLC manufacturer and let them know I’m not happy with proceeding with cracking noises that can be heard?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It will block leas heat than the engineered wood does. It will also help against hot spots where the pipes are hot but the area in between the pipes doesnt get as hot. (I dont know how much of an issue that is with your particular system)

If there isnt room to do it though its irrelevant. A compromise would be more slc to a lesser thickness and with reinforcing fibres.

Should you pay for it? If the product is defective then no. I would be getting wundaboard and instamac out, letting them know the situation and getting the to warranty their products. Expect a fight though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

I’m convinced that the cracking noise it where the joins between the boards have been taped. If there is a gap between the boards that has a gap underneath then this would explain the noise don’t you think?

"

If the board is fixed properly there would be no gap underneath and no movement to make a noise.

There should also be hardly any gap between the board joints but even if their was it shouldnt matter if the board is fixed down properly as it cannot move and make noise.

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