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" People with narcissistic personalities, are they consciously aware of how controlling they are? Or do you think they are truly valid in their reasoning? Is it a conscious decision to be deceitful or do they truly believe “ they are right “ personality disorders are a mental health disorder but how borderline are men or women who are just controlling or maybe do have a personality disorder. How would you know what signs are the difference between controlling or narcissistic, borderline personality disorder? " you should read this book "The (honest) truth about dishonesty" (Dan Ariely) I think you will enjoy it.  | |||
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"Do you mean in terms of taking control in a relationship ? I think many are fully aware of what they are doing. Plus there are a number of ways you can control - financial, sexual, physical, mental. Often these ways crossover. " I mean in general, weather in a relationship sexually or not. Do you think it’s conscious or they do truly believe what they do is right | |||
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" People with narcissistic personalities, are they consciously aware of how controlling they are? Or do you think they are truly valid in their reasoning? Is it a conscious decision to be deceitful or do they truly believe “ they are right “ personality disorders are a mental health disorder but how borderline are men or women who are just controlling or maybe do have a personality disorder. How would you know what signs are the difference between controlling or narcissistic, borderline personality disorder? you should read this book "The (honest) truth about dishonesty" (Dan Ariely) I think you will enjoy it. "I will look that up. Thank you  | |||
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"No sex and no tv make blakey something something " Not a happy chappy and sulking  | |||
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"Do you mean in terms of taking control in a relationship ? I think many are fully aware of what they are doing. Plus there are a number of ways you can control - financial, sexual, physical, mental. Often these ways crossover. I mean in general, weather in a relationship sexually or not. Do you think it’s conscious or they do truly believe what they do is right " I think they are aware of what they are doing. An example, holes are punched in every internal door in a house. Not laid a finger on the other person . The implication though is intimidation. Now that’s a physical act, however it will have an effect on mental well-being. | |||
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"Who you talking to. Not you so why are you talking to me. I wasng talking to you Who are you Who are you you dont know me What dif you want again. No no problems here" Yes I get this. People who turn everything around so it’s you who thinks your mad. But I’m questioning more men (in my situation) that are mentally abusive. Say for instance currently in coronation street, there’s a story line and he’s very very controlling and he’s isolating her slowly but surely! Is he being a controlling person or is he narcissistic? Or does that run hand in hand ? | |||
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"Do you mean in terms of taking control in a relationship ? I think many are fully aware of what they are doing. Plus there are a number of ways you can control - financial, sexual, physical, mental. Often these ways crossover. " Yep. I have experienced all this....he never told me how much he really earned. Didnt want me wearing makeup. Laughed at me when I tried to make a point to him. Was with him 19yrs. | |||
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"Do you mean in terms of taking control in a relationship ? I think many are fully aware of what they are doing. Plus there are a number of ways you can control - financial, sexual, physical, mental. Often these ways crossover. I mean in general, weather in a relationship sexually or not. Do you think it’s conscious or they do truly believe what they do is right I think they are aware of what they are doing. An example, holes are punched in every internal door in a house. Not laid a finger on the other person . The implication though is intimidation. Now that’s a physical act, however it will have an effect on mental well-being. " But that’s just anger! Physically, anger issues. I’m asking about narcissistic personality disorders, people who are clever. Sociopaths and similar are very high on the intelligence scale ! They know how to behave and why | |||
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"Do you mean in terms of taking control in a relationship ? I think many are fully aware of what they are doing. Plus there are a number of ways you can control - financial, sexual, physical, mental. Often these ways crossover. I mean in general, weather in a relationship sexually or not. Do you think it’s conscious or they do truly believe what they do is right I think they are aware of what they are doing. An example, holes are punched in every internal door in a house. Not laid a finger on the other person . The implication though is intimidation. Now that’s a physical act, however it will have an effect on mental well-being. But that’s just anger! Physically, anger issues. I’m asking about narcissistic personality disorders, people who are clever. Sociopaths and similar are very high on the intelligence scale ! They know how to behave and why " But is it anger? It’s a way of controlling isn’t it? Someone tells his wife she can’t sit to eat dinner at the table. The rest of the family can. She will eat hers off a bowl on the floor like a dog. I’ve actually seen this scenario. | |||
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"Do you mean in terms of taking control in a relationship ? I think many are fully aware of what they are doing. Plus there are a number of ways you can control - financial, sexual, physical, mental. Often these ways crossover. I mean in general, weather in a relationship sexually or not. Do you think it’s conscious or they do truly believe what they do is right I think they are aware of what they are doing. An example, holes are punched in every internal door in a house. Not laid a finger on the other person . The implication though is intimidation. Now that’s a physical act, however it will have an effect on mental well-being. But that’s just anger! Physically, anger issues. I’m asking about narcissistic personality disorders, people who are clever. Sociopaths and similar are very high on the intelligence scale ! They know how to behave and why " Oh he is clever, cunning and very sly. With anger issues. Why else would he take 1 of my going out shoes and leave the other....take items belonging to my late mam and put them in the boot of his car??? Other items I found in the attic belonging to me. | |||
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"Depends on their level of narcissism in my experience,extreme levels they live in a completely parallel universe,a fantasy land in which they are always the injured party,the victim and manipulate their victims into believing they are the perpetrator...not that I am bitter or owt!!" This. Everything is my fault. He is the victim, I am the crazy one. I broke up the marrriage despite me finding out he was having an affair. The list goes on..... | |||
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"Do you mean in terms of taking control in a relationship ? I think many are fully aware of what they are doing. Plus there are a number of ways you can control - financial, sexual, physical, mental. Often these ways crossover. I mean in general, weather in a relationship sexually or not. Do you think it’s conscious or they do truly believe what they do is right I think they are aware of what they are doing. An example, holes are punched in every internal door in a house. Not laid a finger on the other person . The implication though is intimidation. Now that’s a physical act, however it will have an effect on mental well-being. But that’s just anger! Physically, anger issues. I’m asking about narcissistic personality disorders, people who are clever. Sociopaths and similar are very high on the intelligence scale ! They know how to behave and why But is it anger? It’s a way of controlling isn’t it? Someone tells his wife she can’t sit to eat dinner at the table. The rest of the family can. She will eat hers off a bowl on the floor like a dog. I’ve actually seen this scenario. " I can see what your saying but I’m more talking about habitual liars and more so narcissistic men who hide and slowly gain control, as opposed to physically abusing, x | |||
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"Do you mean in terms of taking control in a relationship ? I think many are fully aware of what they are doing. Plus there are a number of ways you can control - financial, sexual, physical, mental. Often these ways crossover. I mean in general, weather in a relationship sexually or not. Do you think it’s conscious or they do truly believe what they do is right I think they are aware of what they are doing. An example, holes are punched in every internal door in a house. Not laid a finger on the other person . The implication though is intimidation. Now that’s a physical act, however it will have an effect on mental well-being. But that’s just anger! Physically, anger issues. I’m asking about narcissistic personality disorders, people who are clever. Sociopaths and similar are very high on the intelligence scale ! They know how to behave and why But is it anger? It’s a way of controlling isn’t it? Someone tells his wife she can’t sit to eat dinner at the table. The rest of the family can. She will eat hers off a bowl on the floor like a dog. I’ve actually seen this scenario. I can see what your saying but I’m more talking about habitual liars and more so narcissistic men who hide and slowly gain control, as opposed to physically abusing, x" He wasnt physically abusive. It is coercive control and emotional abuse...over the course of 19yrs. | |||
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"Perhaps it varies. I know a self confessed sociopath. He's lovely, open, honest and aware. I'm sure many aren't. We get on well, platonically. Narcissists and gaslighters are much worse in my experience. I feel so bad for those not aware of their behaviour (on the recieving end) again I'd say it's been a mix of this perfectly aware they are manipulative etc and those not. Gross." This is what I mean , sone men are very aware and conscious of what they are doing,! However, as a mental illness do you think narcissistic behaviour can be excused or singled out | |||
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"Depends on their level of narcissism in my experience,extreme levels they live in a completely parallel universe,a fantasy land in which they are always the injured party,the victim and manipulate their victims into believing they are the perpetrator...not that I am bitter or owt!! This. Everything is my fault. He is the victim, I am the crazy one. I broke up the marrriage despite me finding out he was having an affair. The list goes on....." I’ve been reading up on toxic parenting recently. The toxic parent never accepts responsibility for their actions. | |||
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"Do you mean in terms of taking control in a relationship ? I think many are fully aware of what they are doing. Plus there are a number of ways you can control - financial, sexual, physical, mental. Often these ways crossover. I mean in general, weather in a relationship sexually or not. Do you think it’s conscious or they do truly believe what they do is right I think they are aware of what they are doing. An example, holes are punched in every internal door in a house. Not laid a finger on the other person . The implication though is intimidation. Now that’s a physical act, however it will have an effect on mental well-being. But that’s just anger! Physically, anger issues. I’m asking about narcissistic personality disorders, people who are clever. Sociopaths and similar are very high on the intelligence scale ! They know how to behave and why But is it anger? It’s a way of controlling isn’t it? Someone tells his wife she can’t sit to eat dinner at the table. The rest of the family can. She will eat hers off a bowl on the floor like a dog. I’ve actually seen this scenario. I can see what your saying but I’m more talking about habitual liars and more so narcissistic men who hide and slowly gain control, as opposed to physically abusing, x He wasnt physically abusive. It is coercive control and emotional abuse...over the course of 19yrs. " I’m sorry I wasn’t dismissing what you are saying what so ever, sorry if you thought that. X | |||
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"Do you mean in terms of taking control in a relationship ? I think many are fully aware of what they are doing. Plus there are a number of ways you can control - financial, sexual, physical, mental. Often these ways crossover. I mean in general, weather in a relationship sexually or not. Do you think it’s conscious or they do truly believe what they do is right I think they are aware of what they are doing. An example, holes are punched in every internal door in a house. Not laid a finger on the other person . The implication though is intimidation. Now that’s a physical act, however it will have an effect on mental well-being. But that’s just anger! Physically, anger issues. I’m asking about narcissistic personality disorders, people who are clever. Sociopaths and similar are very high on the intelligence scale ! They know how to behave and why But is it anger? It’s a way of controlling isn’t it? Someone tells his wife she can’t sit to eat dinner at the table. The rest of the family can. She will eat hers off a bowl on the floor like a dog. I’ve actually seen this scenario. I can see what your saying but I’m more talking about habitual liars and more so narcissistic men who hide and slowly gain control, as opposed to physically abusing, x He wasnt physically abusive. It is coercive control and emotional abuse...over the course of 19yrs. I’m sorry I wasn’t dismissing what you are saying what so ever, sorry if you thought that. X" No....not at all. He is very good at being a narcissist. I continue to go through alot with him. I am trying to seperate from him. One of the worst things you can do to a narcissist is say no and dont communicate with them. He has lost control. | |||
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"Depends on their level of narcissism in my experience,extreme levels they live in a completely parallel universe,a fantasy land in which they are always the injured party,the victim and manipulate their victims into believing they are the perpetrator...not that I am bitter or owt!! This. Everything is my fault. He is the victim, I am the crazy one. I broke up the marrriage despite me finding out he was having an affair. The list goes on..... I’ve been reading up on toxic parenting recently. The toxic parent never accepts responsibility for their actions. " Grew up with 2 of those too.Either teaches you reslience and strength,or shapes all of your future relationships and affects you for the rest of your life... | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know "This
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"Perhaps it varies. I know a self confessed sociopath. He's lovely, open, honest and aware. I'm sure many aren't. We get on well, platonically. Narcissists and gaslighters are much worse in my experience. I feel so bad for those not aware of their behaviour (on the recieving end) again I'd say it's been a mix of this perfectly aware they are manipulative etc and those not. Gross. This is what I mean , sone men are very aware and conscious of what they are doing,! However, as a mental illness do you think narcissistic behaviour can be excused or singled out " Unless they are a sociopath with a total lack of empathy,how can that behaviour ever be excused? Most of the population are much nicer folk,working in the NHS restores your faith in human nature most days tbh | |||
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"No sex and no tv make blakey something something Not a happy chappy and sulking "thats not the line marge  | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know "I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot "Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately. | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot
Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately."Ok can you elaborate what terms I use inaccurate? | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot
Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately.
Ok can you elaborate what terms I use inaccurate?"My original reply should highlight where you went wrong. If you can’t figure it out from that, I won’t bother explaining it further. | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot
Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately.
Ok can you elaborate what terms I use inaccurate?
My original reply should highlight where you went wrong. If you can’t figure it out from that, I won’t bother explaining it further."Why do you have an attitude with me | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot
Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately.
Ok can you elaborate what terms I use inaccurate?
My original reply should highlight where you went wrong. If you can’t figure it out from that, I won’t bother explaining it further."I’m asking a question and your attitude is awful | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot
Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately.
Ok can you elaborate what terms I use inaccurate?
My original reply should highlight where you went wrong. If you can’t figure it out from that, I won’t bother explaining it further.
I’m asking a question and your attitude is awful "Im sorry I’ll bow out, wow I thought people should help and encourage. Your pm was awful | |||
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"I did Google tests last summer the results were funny im a bipolar narcissistic sociopathic with anxiety and depression but not a psychopath or a scitso apparently so thats me buggered bad choice of phrase on fab ". Be careful on what you say !! | |||
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"I did Google tests last summer the results were funny im a bipolar narcissistic sociopathic with anxiety and depression but not a psychopath or a scitso apparently so thats me buggered bad choice of phrase on fab .
Be careful on what you say !! "i know buggery is a serious subject | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot
Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately.
Ok can you elaborate what terms I use inaccurate?
My original reply should highlight where you went wrong. If you can’t figure it out from that, I won’t bother explaining it further.
Why do you have an attitude with me"Because inaccurate understanding of mental health conditions perpetuates stigma. Stigma is probably the single most damaging social implication of mental illness. Not all narcissistic are psychopaths. Not all psychopaths are intelligent and high functioning. Not all abusive partners have personality disorders. People with borderline personality disorder (EUPD) may be highly empathic, and far from psychopathic. Whereas some of them may not be... | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot
Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately.
Ok can you elaborate what terms I use inaccurate?
My original reply should highlight where you went wrong. If you can’t figure it out from that, I won’t bother explaining it further.
Why do you have an attitude with me
Because inaccurate understanding of mental health conditions perpetuates stigma. Stigma is probably the single most damaging social implication of mental illness.
Not all narcissistic are psychopaths. Not all psychopaths are intelligent and high functioning. Not all abusive partners have personality disorders. People with borderline personality disorder (EUPD) may be highly empathic, and far from psychopathic. Whereas some of them may not be..."so to sum it up forrest gumps mama was correct life is like a box of chocolates never know what u gonna git | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot
Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately.
Ok can you elaborate what terms I use inaccurate?
My original reply should highlight where you went wrong. If you can’t figure it out from that, I won’t bother explaining it further.
Why do you have an attitude with me
Because inaccurate understanding of mental health conditions perpetuates stigma. Stigma is probably the single most damaging social implication of mental illness.
Not all narcissistic are psychopaths. Not all psychopaths are intelligent and high functioning. Not all abusive partners have personality disorders. People with borderline personality disorder (EUPD) may be highly empathic, and far from psychopathic. Whereas some of them may not be..."I didn’t use the word once psychopaths | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot
Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately.
Ok can you elaborate what terms I use inaccurate?
My original reply should highlight where you went wrong. If you can’t figure it out from that, I won’t bother explaining it further.
Why do you have an attitude with me
Because inaccurate understanding of mental health conditions perpetuates stigma. Stigma is probably the single most damaging social implication of mental illness.
Not all narcissistic are psychopaths. Not all psychopaths are intelligent and high functioning. Not all abusive partners have personality disorders. People with borderline personality disorder (EUPD) may be highly empathic, and far from psychopathic. Whereas some of them may not be...
I didn’t use the word once psychopaths "No you used a term that is outdated and ill-defined. “Sociopath”. Most commonly people use this inaccurately to mean psychopath. | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot
Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately.
Ok can you elaborate what terms I use inaccurate?
My original reply should highlight where you went wrong. If you can’t figure it out from that, I won’t bother explaining it further.
Why do you have an attitude with me
Because inaccurate understanding of mental health conditions perpetuates stigma. Stigma is probably the single most damaging social implication of mental illness.
Not all narcissistic are psychopaths. Not all psychopaths are intelligent and high functioning. Not all abusive partners have personality disorders. People with borderline personality disorder (EUPD) may be highly empathic, and far from psychopathic. Whereas some of them may not be...
I didn’t use the word once psychopaths
No you used a term that is outdated and ill-defined. “Sociopath”. Most commonly people use this inaccurately to mean psychopath."Waves hand, that was actually me,sorry,my mistake,I know it is outdated and overused,I work in healthcare,so ought to know better | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot
Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately.
Ok can you elaborate what terms I use inaccurate?
My original reply should highlight where you went wrong. If you can’t figure it out from that, I won’t bother explaining it further.
Why do you have an attitude with me
Because inaccurate understanding of mental health conditions perpetuates stigma. Stigma is probably the single most damaging social implication of mental illness.
Not all narcissistic are psychopaths. Not all psychopaths are intelligent and high functioning. Not all abusive partners have personality disorders. People with borderline personality disorder (EUPD) may be highly empathic, and far from psychopathic. Whereas some of them may not be...
I didn’t use the word once psychopaths
No you used a term that is outdated and ill-defined. “Sociopath”. Most commonly people use this inaccurately to mean psychopath."I said sociopath, once, in terms of a person who can have narcissistic traits, loosely ! As can everyone. Psychopath is completely different ball game. I don’t know why your twisting my thread. | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot
Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately.
Ok can you elaborate what terms I use inaccurate?
My original reply should highlight where you went wrong. If you can’t figure it out from that, I won’t bother explaining it further.
Why do you have an attitude with me
Because inaccurate understanding of mental health conditions perpetuates stigma. Stigma is probably the single most damaging social implication of mental illness.
Not all narcissistic are psychopaths. Not all psychopaths are intelligent and high functioning. Not all abusive partners have personality disorders. People with borderline personality disorder (EUPD) may be highly empathic, and far from psychopathic. Whereas some of them may not be...
I didn’t use the word once psychopaths
No you used a term that is outdated and ill-defined. “Sociopath”. Most commonly people use this inaccurately to mean psychopath.
Waves hand, that was actually me,sorry,my mistake,I know it is outdated and overused,I work in healthcare,so ought to know better"bleeding nutter are u mad  | |||
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"I have first hand experience with a narcissist. He controlled everything. Money. My hair. My clothes. My friends. I had no confidence at all. I relied heavily on him for everything and he made sure of that. It took nearly 20 years for me to figure it out and was both the worst and the best thing I've ever done." Hope your ok. Can be hard to leave. But I feel trying to manage after is harder. X | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot
Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately.
Ok can you elaborate what terms I use inaccurate?
My original reply should highlight where you went wrong. If you can’t figure it out from that, I won’t bother explaining it further.
Why do you have an attitude with me
Because inaccurate understanding of mental health conditions perpetuates stigma. Stigma is probably the single most damaging social implication of mental illness.
Not all narcissistic are psychopaths. Not all psychopaths are intelligent and high functioning. Not all abusive partners have personality disorders. People with borderline personality disorder (EUPD) may be highly empathic, and far from psychopathic. Whereas some of them may not be...
I didn’t use the word once psychopaths
No you used a term that is outdated and ill-defined. “Sociopath”. Most commonly people use this inaccurately to mean psychopath.
I said sociopath, once, in terms of a person who can have narcissistic traits, loosely ! As can everyone. Psychopath is completely different ball game. I don’t know why your twisting my thread. "Maybe I should of said ASPD, i was using an out dated terminology. I apologise | |||
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" Hope your ok. Can be hard to leave. But I feel trying to manage after is harder. X" Absolutely!! Its been horrendous. But I couldn't stay. It's so hard because they are the 'victim' xx | |||
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"You’ve mentioned several terms that are currently viewed as discrete entities (ie not interchangeable)- Narcissistic personality disorder Borderline personality disorder (now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) And “Sociopath”, which is a term that is no longer in use. Psychopathy may co-exist with any other condition, and is a term used to describe persons who meet a number of characteristics defined by The Hare Psychopathy Checklist. This includes a grandiose sense of worth, but does not mean all narcissists are psychopaths. Personality disorder is defined as a set of traits that persist over time, affect all areas of life, and significantly interfere with the individual ability to function within society. You could be a person with narcissistic “traits” but able to function well, and therefore would not have a “personality disorder”. The more you know
I can agree on some points completely, I know an awful lot
Your posts imply you don’t know an awful lot about these conditions as you use the terms inaccurately.
Ok can you elaborate what terms I use inaccurate?
My original reply should highlight where you went wrong. If you can’t figure it out from that, I won’t bother explaining it further.
Why do you have an attitude with me
Because inaccurate understanding of mental health conditions perpetuates stigma. Stigma is probably the single most damaging social implication of mental illness.
Not all narcissistic are psychopaths. Not all psychopaths are intelligent and high functioning. Not all abusive partners have personality disorders. People with borderline personality disorder (EUPD) may be highly empathic, and far from psychopathic. Whereas some of them may not be...
I didn’t use the word once psychopaths
No you used a term that is outdated and ill-defined. “Sociopath”. Most commonly people use this inaccurately to mean psychopath.
I said sociopath, once, in terms of a person who can have narcissistic traits, loosely ! As can everyone. Psychopath is completely different ball game. I don’t know why your twisting my thread. "Psychopath is not a “completely different ball game”. Psychopath, and antisocial personality disorder, are the contemporary defined terms for persons with the traits you are describing. These terms are different, again, from narcissistic personality disorder. However there are overlapping traits between all three syndromes. I dunno why I’m bothering.... I just have a pet peeve for when people talk with authority about things they clearly don’t understand. | |||
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"I have first hand experience with a narcissist. He controlled everything. Money. My hair. My clothes. My friends. I had no confidence at all. I relied heavily on him for everything and he made sure of that. It took nearly 20 years for me to figure it out and was both the worst and the best thing I've ever done. Hope your ok. Can be hard to leave. But I feel trying to manage after is harder. X" It so is,at the beginning, you are lost without them.Old adage I know,but time is a great healer,cbt and pstd counsellung also really helps | |||
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"And not all people with ASPD are intelligent. Another error you made. There are people with learning disabilities with ASPD, and everyone in between. The intelligent psychopath is a trope perpetuated by television and films." I wasn’t meaning this thread to be about what it’s lead into. My meaning was men or woman who can be controlling unconsciously or consciously, excuse terminology guys. | |||
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"I have first hand experience with a narcissist. He controlled everything. Money. My hair. My clothes. My friends. I had no confidence at all. I relied heavily on him for everything and he made sure of that. It took nearly 20 years for me to figure it out and was both the worst and the best thing I've ever done. Hope your ok. Can be hard to leave. But I feel trying to manage after is harder. X It so is,at the beginning, you are lost without them.Old adage I know,but time is a great healer,cbt and pstd counsellung also really helps" CBT helps, for some but not many. It can be hard to tap into the system, our NHS is limited unfortunately | |||
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"And not all people with ASPD are intelligent. Another error you made. There are people with learning disabilities with ASPD, and everyone in between. The intelligent psychopath is a trope perpetuated by television and films." Most “psychopaths “ as you say are portrayed by socialism by the same traits! But as an umbrella as you and I know is silly ! | |||
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"And not all people with ASPD are intelligent. Another error you made. There are people with learning disabilities with ASPD, and everyone in between. The intelligent psychopath is a trope perpetuated by television and films." Absolutely mute point! As people with learning disabilities (as you say) can be highly intelligent | |||
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"And not all people with ASPD are intelligent. Another error you made. There are people with learning disabilities with ASPD, and everyone in between. The intelligent psychopath is a trope perpetuated by television and films. Absolutely mute point! As people with learning disabilities (as you say) can be highly intelligent " The term is moot point. And, even when spelt correctly, you’ve used it incorrectly. Learning disability is quite literally defined by having an intelligence quotient less than 70 points. I swear you’re a troll... | |||
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"Do you mean in terms of taking control in a relationship ? I think many are fully aware of what they are doing. Plus there are a number of ways you can control - financial, sexual, physical, mental. Often these ways crossover. I mean in general, weather in a relationship sexually or not. Do you think it’s conscious or they do truly believe what they do is right I think they are aware of what they are doing. An example, holes are punched in every internal door in a house. Not laid a finger on the other person . The implication though is intimidation. Now that’s a physical act, however it will have an effect on mental well-being. But that’s just anger! Physically, anger issues. I’m asking about narcissistic personality disorders, people who are clever. Sociopaths and similar are very high on the intelligence scale ! They know how to behave and why " When they convince you that they only did it because you make them so angry when you don't listen, because they care about you so much. And they're the only ones that do. Then they persuade you to cover all the holes with posters so your family don't see. Because they will just try and split you up because they don't want you to be happy... Yeah it's a lot more than just anger I'd say | |||
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"And not all people with ASPD are intelligent. Another error you made. There are people with learning disabilities with ASPD, and everyone in between. The intelligent psychopath is a trope perpetuated by television and films. Absolutely mute point! As people with learning disabilities (as you say) can be highly intelligent The term is moot point. And, even when spelt correctly, you’ve used it incorrectly. Learning disability is quite literally defined by having an intelligence quotient less than 70 points. I swear you’re a troll..." I’m sorry, you think I’m a troll ? | |||
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"Do you mean in terms of taking control in a relationship ? I think many are fully aware of what they are doing. Plus there are a number of ways you can control - financial, sexual, physical, mental. Often these ways crossover. I mean in general, weather in a relationship sexually or not. Do you think it’s conscious or they do truly believe what they do is right I think they are aware of what they are doing. An example, holes are punched in every internal door in a house. Not laid a finger on the other person . The implication though is intimidation. Now that’s a physical act, however it will have an effect on mental well-being. But that’s just anger! Physically, anger issues. I’m asking about narcissistic personality disorders, people who are clever. Sociopaths and similar are very high on the intelligence scale ! They know how to behave and why When they convince you that they only did it because you make them so angry when you don't listen, because they care about you so much. And they're the only ones that do. Then they persuade you to cover all the holes with posters so your family don't see. Because they will just try and split you up because they don't want you to be happy... Yeah it's a lot more than just anger I'd say" Yes I agree, they know consciously what they are doing, and know what buttons to press x | |||
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"Having said that and having been in an abusive relationship. I think he knew exactly what he was doing. I believe he planned his behaviour and learnt how to play people. It was only when I saw through the lies and the manipulation that the physical violence started. So yes. Some people know exactly what they are doing. And if it hurts others they really don't care. So go carefully out there. If your gut says something is wrong, trust your gut every time. " Very good input, yes I’ve been there myself when i know I shouldn’t really be with this person but all realism goes out the window when “ love” is involved. Love is a VERY strong emotion | |||
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"Yeah but a narcissist doesnt know what love is...its all about control. They are incapable of real love. " Narcissistic people do no love, they choose to control it and everything around them. Psychopaths have no empathy | |||
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"Yeah but a narcissist doesnt know what love is...its all about control. They are incapable of real love. Narcissistic people do no love, they choose to control it and everything around them. Psychopaths have no empathy " well looks like google was wrong phew just a sociopath yaaaaaay | |||
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"Yeah but a narcissist doesnt know what love is...its all about control. They are incapable of real love. Narcissistic people do no love, they choose to control it and everything around them. Psychopaths have no empathy " “Know” | |||
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"And not all people with ASPD are intelligent. Another error you made. There are people with learning disabilities with ASPD, and everyone in between. The intelligent psychopath is a trope perpetuated by television and films. Absolutely mute point! As people with learning disabilities (as you say) can be highly intelligent The term is moot point. And, even when spelt correctly, you’ve used it incorrectly. Learning disability is quite literally defined by having an intelligence quotient less than 70 points. I swear you’re a troll..." What is wrong with you? Why are you picking at her? Of course she's not a troll, she's just asked a question!! 
Look in the mirror. | |||
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" People with narcissistic personalities, are they consciously aware of how controlling they are? Or do you think they are truly valid in their reasoning? Is it a conscious decision to be deceitful or do they truly believe “ they are right “ personality disorders are a mental health disorder but how borderline are men or women who are just controlling or maybe do have a personality disorder. How would you know what signs are the difference between controlling or narcissistic, borderline personality disorder? " Some are aware. But I don't know if that means they are just evil and can't hide under a 'mental health' term. Some know exactly what they are doing, and I feel giving them a term like personality disorder 'excuses' their behaviour. (Not saying *you* are excusing their behaviour, just answering your question. X) | |||
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"Do you mean in terms of taking control in a relationship ? I think many are fully aware of what they are doing. Plus there are a number of ways you can control - financial, sexual, physical, mental. Often these ways crossover. Yep. I have experienced all this....he never told me how much he really earned. Didnt want me wearing makeup. Laughed at me when I tried to make a point to him. Was with him 19yrs. " 15 years for me.... Interesting thread... it's something that I ask myself a lot!!! I suppose when you've lived through an abusive relationship, you need answers. | |||
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"Perhaps you are thinking of learning difficulties, which may include dyslexia. Different term. Difficulties vs disability." Are you insinuating I have learning difficulties? Wow I’m shocked at your under tone of this comment | |||
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"Perhaps you are thinking of learning difficulties, which may include dyslexia. Different term. Difficulties vs disability. Are you insinuating I have learning difficulties? Wow I’m shocked at your under tone of this comment " Didn’t intend to insinuate anything. Just clarifying. | |||
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"Perhaps you are thinking of learning difficulties, which may include dyslexia. Different term. Difficulties vs disability. Are you insinuating I have learning difficulties? Wow I’m shocked at your under tone of this comment Didn’t intend to insinuate anything. Just clarifying." What’s to clarify? Because I made a spelling mistake you are saying I have a learning difficulty? Wow I’m saddened you think like that | |||
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"Perhaps you are thinking of learning difficulties, which may include dyslexia. Different term. Difficulties vs disability. Are you insinuating I have learning difficulties? Wow I’m shocked at your under tone of this comment Didn’t intend to insinuate anything. Just clarifying. What’s to clarify? Because I made a spelling mistake you are saying I have a learning difficulty? Wow I’m saddened you think like that " I wasn’t saying that, at all. I was clarifying that learning difficulties and learning disabilities are different. You had said people with learning disability can be intelligent, but they can’t be (by definition) and I wondered if you actually meant learning difficulty. | |||
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"Perhaps you are thinking of learning difficulties, which may include dyslexia. Different term. Difficulties vs disability. Are you insinuating I have learning difficulties? Wow I’m shocked at your under tone of this comment Didn’t intend to insinuate anything. Just clarifying. What’s to clarify? Because I made a spelling mistake you are saying I have a learning difficulty? Wow I’m saddened you think like that I wasn’t saying that, at all. I was clarifying that learning difficulties and learning disabilities are different. You had said people with learning disability can be intelligent, but they can’t be (by definition) and I wondered if you actually meant learning difficulty. " Wow your so patronising. | |||
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" People with narcissistic personalities, are they consciously aware of how controlling they are? Or do you think they are truly valid in their reasoning? Is it a conscious decision to be deceitful or do they truly believe “ they are right “ personality disorders are a mental health disorder but how borderline are men or women who are just controlling or maybe do have a personality disorder. How would you know what signs are the difference between controlling or narcissistic, borderline personality disorder? " It can all vary massively, you had a personal experience of the like? Myself personally suffer with bipolar amongst other things, to this day I struggle, but I've learned to be open and honest, key for me is routine and having people around you that understand the conditions, but yeah personally it annoys the shit put of me seeing people play on the idea use it as a kop out etc | |||
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"Perhaps you are thinking of learning difficulties, which may include dyslexia. Different term. Difficulties vs disability. Are you insinuating I have learning difficulties? Wow I’m shocked at your under tone of this comment Didn’t intend to insinuate anything. Just clarifying. What’s to clarify? Because I made a spelling mistake you are saying I have a learning difficulty? Wow I’m saddened you think like that I wasn’t saying that, at all. I was clarifying that learning difficulties and learning disabilities are different. You had said people with learning disability can be intelligent, but they can’t be (by definition) and I wondered if you actually meant learning difficulty. Wow your so patronising. " I apologise for interrupting your thread, and for my unhelpful and unfriendly tone. I am passionate about mental health and sometimes that means I get irritated by misinformation. | |||
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"Perhaps you are thinking of learning difficulties, which may include dyslexia. Different term. Difficulties vs disability. Are you insinuating I have learning difficulties? Wow I’m shocked at your under tone of this comment Didn’t intend to insinuate anything. Just clarifying. What’s to clarify? Because I made a spelling mistake you are saying I have a learning difficulty? Wow I’m saddened you think like that I wasn’t saying that, at all. I was clarifying that learning difficulties and learning disabilities are different. You had said people with learning disability can be intelligent, but they can’t be (by definition) and I wondered if you actually meant learning difficulty. Wow your so patronising. I apologise for interrupting your thread, and for my unhelpful and unfriendly tone. I am passionate about mental health and sometimes that means I get irritated by misinformation." I’m passionate myself about mental health funnily enough. As are others. Your patronising tone is awful | |||
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"I was systematically taken apart by my ex, a nasty narcissist. Taken me 3 years to start living again." That's terrible to hear! Hope you're feeling strong and confident again! | |||
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"I was systematically taken apart by my ex, a nasty narcissist. Taken me 3 years to start living again." I hope your ok. Did you find help from other sources ? Or did you seek help from your gp? X | |||
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"I’m sorry to hear about so many people suffering abusive relationships. I was in a relationship with a psychopath for two years. It took me a long time to get over the damage done, and I suspect I’ll be scarred by it forever." That's awful, cant even begin to imagine, I was exposed as a child to abusive controlling behaviour, I my self detest it and more should be done! | |||
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"I was systematically taken apart by my ex, a nasty narcissist. Taken me 3 years to start living again." I went through a bad time also with my ex. I went through the police and crown court. I felt let down by our judicial system. I self harmed and had a mental breakdown, however I’m here now and stronger. Hope your ok. Here if you want to chat | |||
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"Who you talking to. Not you so why are you talking to me. I wasng talking to you Who are you Who are you you dont know me What dif you want again. No no problems here Yes I get this. People who turn everything around so it’s you who thinks your mad. But I’m questioning more men (in my situation) that are mentally abusive. Say for instance currently in coronation street, there’s a story line and he’s very very controlling and he’s isolating her slowly but surely! Is he being a controlling person or is he narcissistic? Or does that run hand in hand ?" I have personal experience of this and I've been watching Corrie also and I think he is using manipulation to control. Have you seen the series Dirty John? it's based on a woman's true life similar experience | |||
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"And not all people with ASPD are intelligent. Another error you made. There are people with learning disabilities with ASPD, and everyone in between. The intelligent psychopath is a trope perpetuated by television and films. Absolutely mute point! As people with learning disabilities (as you say) can be highly intelligent The term is moot point. And, even when spelt correctly, you’ve used it incorrectly. Learning disability is quite literally defined by having an intelligence quotient less than 70 points. I swear you’re a troll... What is wrong with you? Why are you picking at her? Of course she's not a troll, she's just asked a question!!
Look in the mirror. "I agree with this. She sounds as though she wants everyone to know how clever she is rather than helping x | |||
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"And not all people with ASPD are intelligent. Another error you made. There are people with learning disabilities with ASPD, and everyone in between. The intelligent psychopath is a trope perpetuated by television and films. Absolutely mute point! As people with learning disabilities (as you say) can be highly intelligent The term is moot point. And, even when spelt correctly, you’ve used it incorrectly. Learning disability is quite literally defined by having an intelligence quotient less than 70 points. I swear you’re a troll... What is wrong with you? Why are you picking at her? Of course she's not a troll, she's just asked a question!!
Look in the mirror.
I agree with this. She sounds as though she wants everyone to know how clever she is rather than helping x"I don’t think we are alone in thinking this. | |||
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"And not all people with ASPD are intelligent. Another error you made. There are people with learning disabilities with ASPD, and everyone in between. The intelligent psychopath is a trope perpetuated by television and films. Absolutely mute point! As people with learning disabilities (as you say) can be highly intelligent The term is moot point. And, even when spelt correctly, you’ve used it incorrectly. Learning disability is quite literally defined by having an intelligence quotient less than 70 points. I swear you’re a troll... What is wrong with you? Why are you picking at her? Of course she's not a troll, she's just asked a question!!
Look in the mirror.
I agree with this. She sounds as though she wants everyone to know how clever she is rather than helping x
I don’t think we are alone in thinking this. "Thank you Hun x | |||
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"Who you talking to. Not you so why are you talking to me. I wasng talking to you Who are you Who are you you dont know me What dif you want again. No no problems here Yes I get this. People who turn everything around so it’s you who thinks your mad. But I’m questioning more men (in my situation) that are mentally abusive. Say for instance currently in coronation street, there’s a story line and he’s very very controlling and he’s isolating her slowly but surely! Is he being a controlling person or is he narcissistic? Or does that run hand in hand ?I have personal experience of this and I've been watching Corrie also and I think he is using manipulation to control. Have you seen the series Dirty John? it's based on a woman's true life similar experience " Oh how mad does he make you feel watching it! | |||
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"Who you talking to. Not you so why are you talking to me. I wasng talking to you Who are you Who are you you dont know me What dif you want again. No no problems here Yes I get this. People who turn everything around so it’s you who thinks your mad. But I’m questioning more men (in my situation) that are mentally abusive. Say for instance currently in coronation street, there’s a story line and he’s very very controlling and he’s isolating her slowly but surely! Is he being a controlling person or is he narcissistic? Or does that run hand in hand ?I have personal experience of this and I've been watching Corrie also and I think he is using manipulation to control. Have you seen the series Dirty John? it's based on a woman's true life similar experience Oh how mad does he make you feel watching it! " Yes, you can see at the beginning that she sees warning signs but then he tries to turn it around into always having an excuse for his behaviour, which has her questioning her own mind | |||
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