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University a waste of time?

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By *sianManc OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester

[Removed by poster at 03/12/19 09:27:34]

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By *sianManc OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester

This is mostly for those that have been to and graduated from a university as they point of view will matter on this one.

I just wonder isn't it a waste of time and here's why...

All the learning you do is self. The tutors bore you with lectures which are limited informations you will be getting in greater detail from textbooks or online and so university becomes simply a place you pay to get a certificate at the end to prove you self taught yourself something.

I have never ever seen the value of it and wonder if I'm alone?

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

It all depends on what you want from it and what you put into it.

Yes it's only a piece of paper that's says well done you have a bit of a brain. But it also houses a lot of world experts in their fields. It's up to the students to engage with the academics and this is where the true value lies.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Often world class experts teach you how to learn and research semi independently, and guide you sometimes involving their own cutting edge research.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Such a good question... personally, I think this depends on your personality and expectations.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Since that clown Blair made it almost compulsory to go to uni then Uni's have become money making grabbers and the students are cash cows. Everyone has a degree now whether they want it or not..it is so watered down that you will be lucky to get a decent job after graduation. The only exception is to study for a profession in medicine, dentistry, etc or some of the few courses where top employers recruit from.

There are now degrees in nursing ffs and soon policeman will all have degrees too.

The only problem with that is that our nurses study bloody hard to get their degree but are then paid peanuts.

I am not knocking the students but my advice is to look past the degree and your future after that..

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

It depends on what degree you're aiming for and real world prospects of employability. Many a university degree are an exercise in uselessness with no real world practical application. It's been drilled into people that a uni degree is the way to go when this is not always the case. If you graduate with 40k in debt without even starting your career, your degree had better be worth it in terms of employability, otherwise the term "money making scam" comes to mind.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

There is the money making side of it I agree. But there's also a massive sense of entitlement by many students too.

And it's not all about earning money and employability, many academics could earn more in industry, but work in university's due to a love of their subject.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Absolutely disagree. I was taught loads by both my university lecturers and industry experts we had for either guest lectures or even for regular classes for short projects. There are things I learnt at university I would struggle to learn from anywhere else and as some of the software, equipment and machinery was worth thousands of pounds, I would never have gained any experience with these either if I hadn't gone to university.

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By *lder A Wiser PassionWoman
over a year ago

morecambe

Half the the time it is there isn't the good jobs out there to make it work.

There some really silly degrees out there and it cost an arm and a leg to get one these days

What we needing is builders plumers nurses and the like

What it is half of them who leave school these days dont want to work hard what it all on plate

Half dont want to start at the bottom

We are in the Uk today are lazy

And will be for sure our down fall

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"This is mostly for those that have been to and graduated from a university as they point of view will matter on this one.

I just wonder isn't it a waste of time and here's why...

All the learning you do is self. The tutors bore you with lectures which are limited informations you will be getting in greater detail from textbooks or online and so university becomes simply a place you pay to get a certificate at the end to prove you self taught yourself something.

I have never ever seen the value of it and wonder if I'm alone?"

OP I’m unsure if you went to university from your post. My experience was significantly different to what you describe though. Whilst I agree that a student has to do all of the learning, the signposts given by the lecturers and library staff allow you to learn more effectively...... I found the learning came from a conversation with the lecturers rather than information being drilled into me. I certainly found it a positive experience.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It depends on what degree you're aiming for and real world prospects of employability. Many a university degree are an exercise in uselessness with no real world practical application. It's been drilled into people that a uni degree is the way to go when this is not always the case. If you graduate with 40k in debt without even starting your career, your degree had better be worth it in terms of employability, otherwise the term "money making scam" comes to mind."

I agree with this. There were 'useless' degrees back in my day that gave you no more advantage for getting the job than not. Ive heard from a few people now who have their degree, still being turned down for the job they are in theory qualified for for not having the real world experience to do the job.

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By *ulfilthmentMan
over a year ago

Just around the corner

You do the ‘learning’ yourself because the whole point of university is to teach you how to research and understand a topic. If you want to be ‘taught’ stuff, go to a technical college or get an apprenticeship.

We seem to have fetishised the idea that university is about ‘training’ people to do a specific job. With a few exceptions this was never the intent. It was about teaching a set of transferable analytical skills.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land


"It depends on what degree you're aiming for and real world prospects of employability. Many a university degree are an exercise in uselessness with no real world practical application. It's been drilled into people that a uni degree is the way to go when this is not always the case. If you graduate with 40k in debt without even starting your career, your degree had better be worth it in terms of employability, otherwise the term "money making scam" comes to mind.

I agree with this. There were 'useless' degrees back in my day that gave you no more advantage for getting the job than not. Ive heard from a few people now who have their degree, still being turned down for the job they are in theory qualified for for not having the real world experience to do the job.

"

But this is why you should engage with the lecturers, as they will help you get the experience you need. They will impart their knowledge if they are asked

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By *ulfilthmentMan
over a year ago

Just around the corner


"Ive heard from a few people now who have their degree, still being turned down for the job they are in theory qualified for for not having the real world experience to do the job."

This has more to do with the huge numbers of people going to university than the usefulness of degrees in general.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it depends in the degree you've got and if you've utilised it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ive heard from a few people now who have their degree, still being turned down for the job they are in theory qualified for for not having the real world experience to do the job.

This has more to do with the huge numbers of people going to university than the usefulness of degrees in general."

Another thing yes. Its just not possible that there are enough jobs out there for all the people studying for that field yes.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"It depends on what degree you're aiming for and real world prospects of employability. Many a university degree are an exercise in uselessness with no real world practical application. It's been drilled into people that a uni degree is the way to go when this is not always the case. If you graduate with 40k in debt without even starting your career, your degree had better be worth it in terms of employability, otherwise the term "money making scam" comes to mind."

It's not just the universities. The government are implicit in it too as it has hidden their problem with youth unemployment. They are deliberately trying to keep young people in education for as long as possible and then those people just get shamed for doing what everyone has told them they are supposed to do to get a good job.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"It depends on what degree you're aiming for and real world prospects of employability. Many a university degree are an exercise in uselessness with no real world practical application. It's been drilled into people that a uni degree is the way to go when this is not always the case. If you graduate with 40k in debt without even starting your career, your degree had better be worth it in terms of employability, otherwise the term "money making scam" comes to mind.

It's not just the universities. The government are implicit in it too as it has hidden their problem with youth unemployment. They are deliberately trying to keep young people in education for as long as possible and then those people just get shamed for doing what everyone has told them they are supposed to do to get a good job. "

*complicit

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

University can also be a time and a place where you can meet lots of different people, even making lifelong friendships, exposing you to all manner of cultures, beliefs and that in turn help you develop and learn.

You know this anyway; your post is another attempt to 'spark debate', just like your 'homosexuality and perversion' post.

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By *hatYorkLadMan
over a year ago

York

Most of my friends at school went off to uni while I did an apprenticeship and college before getting into work. Some of them have done very well out of it but most are earning less than me, not working in the field they studied and are still paying it off.

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By *sianManc OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"Most of my friends at school went off to uni while I did an apprenticeship and college before getting into work. Some of them have done very well out of it but most are earning less than me, not working in the field they studied and are still paying it off. "

That's been what I have seen too with fellow uni graduates. It's the lucky ones that got good jobs as in high paying jobs in the same field they studied.

Most seem to move to another field entirely and their degrees became obselete and yet whenever we have spoken we have all agreed writing essays and going lectures was pointless etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Everyone has a degree now whether they want it or not."

This is not true, obviously, so I guess you were exaggerating to make a point.

In reality most people leaving school will not get a degree, so if you're thinking of entering a field of work where a degree is valued then it's a smart thing to do in order to give yourself competitive advantage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am highly cynical about the university system and believe most degrees are money making schemes.

There is clear educational inflation happening and at some point that bubble has to burst.

However, for my particular vocation, university was absolutely necessary.

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By *sianManc OP   Man
over a year ago

Manchester


"I am highly cynical about the university system and believe most degrees are money making schemes.

There is clear educational inflation happening and at some point that bubble has to burst.

However, for my particular vocation, university was absolutely necessary."

Same I agree and same mine was necessary too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

degrees are like veris they just show you turned up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’s guided learning. The lecturers point you in the right direction, and it’s up to you where you go from there.

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest


"It depends on what degree you're aiming for and real world prospects of employability. Many a university degree are an exercise in uselessness with no real world practical application. It's been drilled into people that a uni degree is the way to go when this is not always the case. If you graduate with 40k in debt without even starting your career, your degree had better be worth it in terms of employability, otherwise the term "money making scam" comes to mind.

It's not just the universities. The government are implicit in it too as it has hidden their problem with youth unemployment. They are deliberately trying to keep young people in education for as long as possible and then those people just get shamed for doing what everyone has told them they are supposed to do to get a good job. "

A university degree should never be equated with getting a good job and anyone who thinks this is seriously mistaken. People should do a study of the labour market when choosing their degree and see what their prospects for work might be once they graduate. If they choose something obscure, say, archeology, or something with zero marketable skills (gender studies comes to mind) then they cannot complain of getting a raw deal when they're saddled with debt and can't find a job that makes use of their "education".

I will agree that people enrolled in university will not count as unemployed and this helps the government stats.

As a side note, in the U.S.A. student loan debt is greater than credit card debt and is the one debt you cannot file bankruptcy for. You're literally on the hook for life. It's what happens when you privatise what should be public and indoctrinate young people that uni is the only way to get ahead in life.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"

A university degree should never be equated with getting a good job and anyone who thinks this is seriously mistaken. People should do a study of the labour market when choosing their degree and see what their prospects for work might be once they graduate. If they choose something obscure, say, archeology, or something with zero marketable skills (gender studies comes to mind) then they cannot complain of getting a raw deal when they're saddled with debt and can't find a job that makes use of their "education".

"

As someone with that kind of degree (neither archaeology nor gender studies), it's less about what you learn than how you learn. How to approach problems, how to analyse data and evidence, critical thinking, construct arguments, think independently and creatively, etc.

It's a crying shame that people think such things are useless because they don't directly fit into a job. They're invaluable life skills for informed citizens.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"It depends on what degree you're aiming for and real world prospects of employability. Many a university degree are an exercise in uselessness with no real world practical application. It's been drilled into people that a uni degree is the way to go when this is not always the case. If you graduate with 40k in debt without even starting your career, your degree had better be worth it in terms of employability, otherwise the term "money making scam" comes to mind.

It's not just the universities. The government are implicit in it too as it has hidden their problem with youth unemployment. They are deliberately trying to keep young people in education for as long as possible and then those people just get shamed for doing what everyone has told them they are supposed to do to get a good job.

A university degree should never be equated with getting a good job and anyone who thinks this is seriously mistaken. People should do a study of the labour market when choosing their degree and see what their prospects for work might be once they graduate. If they choose something obscure, say, archeology, or something with zero marketable skills (gender studies comes to mind) then they cannot complain of getting a raw deal when they're saddled with debt and can't find a job that makes use of their "education".

I will agree that people enrolled in university will not count as unemployed and this helps the government stats.

As a side note, in the U.S.A. student loan debt is greater than credit card debt and is the one debt you cannot file bankruptcy for. You're literally on the hook for life. It's what happens when you privatise what should be public and indoctrinate young people that uni is the only way to get ahead in life."

I'm just saying it's a bit unfair to expect 18 year olds to totally reject everything they've been fed for most of their lives so far. Many twice of three times their age fail to do so. University helps students to become more free thinking and encourages questioning the sources of all of your information. It's just unfortunate that through developing critical thinking, you discover that most of what led you to the point you at is a lie.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"It depends on what degree you're aiming for and real world prospects of employability. Many a university degree are an exercise in uselessness with no real world practical application. It's been drilled into people that a uni degree is the way to go when this is not always the case. If you graduate with 40k in debt without even starting your career, your degree had better be worth it in terms of employability, otherwise the term "money making scam" comes to mind.

It's not just the universities. The government are implicit in it too as it has hidden their problem with youth unemployment. They are deliberately trying to keep young people in education for as long as possible and then those people just get shamed for doing what everyone has told them they are supposed to do to get a good job.

A university degree should never be equated with getting a good job and anyone who thinks this is seriously mistaken. People should do a study of the labour market when choosing their degree and see what their prospects for work might be once they graduate. If they choose something obscure, say, archeology, or something with zero marketable skills (gender studies comes to mind) then they cannot complain of getting a raw deal when they're saddled with debt and can't find a job that makes use of their "education".

I will agree that people enrolled in university will not count as unemployed and this helps the government stats.

As a side note, in the U.S.A. student loan debt is greater than credit card debt and is the one debt you cannot file bankruptcy for. You're literally on the hook for life. It's what happens when you privatise what should be public and indoctrinate young people that uni is the only way to get ahead in life.

I'm just saying it's a bit unfair to expect 18 year olds to totally reject everything they've been fed for most of their lives so far. Many twice of three times their age fail to do so. University helps students to become more free thinking and encourages questioning the sources of all of your information. It's just unfortunate that through developing critical thinking, you discover that most of what led you to the point you at is a lie."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It depends on what degree you're aiming for and real world prospects of employability. Many a university degree are an exercise in uselessness with no real world practical application. It's been drilled into people that a uni degree is the way to go when this is not always the case. If you graduate with 40k in debt without even starting your career, your degree had better be worth it in terms of employability, otherwise the term "money making scam" comes to mind.

It's not just the universities. The government are implicit in it too as it has hidden their problem with youth unemployment. They are deliberately trying to keep young people in education for as long as possible and then those people just get shamed for doing what everyone has told them they are supposed to do to get a good job.

A university degree should never be equated with getting a good job and anyone who thinks this is seriously mistaken. People should do a study of the labour market when choosing their degree and see what their prospects for work might be once they graduate. If they choose something obscure, say, archeology, or something with zero marketable skills (gender studies comes to mind) then they cannot complain of getting a raw deal when they're saddled with debt and can't find a job that makes use of their "education".

I will agree that people enrolled in university will not count as unemployed and this helps the government stats.

As a side note, in the U.S.A. student loan debt is greater than credit card debt and is the one debt you cannot file bankruptcy for. You're literally on the hook for life. It's what happens when you privatise what should be public and indoctrinate young people that uni is the only way to get ahead in life.

I'm just saying it's a bit unfair to expect 18 year olds to totally reject everything they've been fed for most of their lives so far. Many twice of three times their age fail to do so. University helps students to become more free thinking and encourages questioning the sources of all of your information. It's just unfortunate that through developing critical thinking, you discover that most of what led you to the point you at is a lie."

This made me laugh, the irony isnt it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

YOU are the only person who can waste your time. Never forget that and always take ownership of it my friends...

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest


"It depends on what degree you're aiming for and real world prospects of employability. Many a university degree are an exercise in uselessness with no real world practical application. It's been drilled into people that a uni degree is the way to go when this is not always the case. If you graduate with 40k in debt without even starting your career, your degree had better be worth it in terms of employability, otherwise the term "money making scam" comes to mind.

It's not just the universities. The government are implicit in it too as it has hidden their problem with youth unemployment. They are deliberately trying to keep young people in education for as long as possible and then those people just get shamed for doing what everyone has told them they are supposed to do to get a good job.

A university degree should never be equated with getting a good job and anyone who thinks this is seriously mistaken. People should do a study of the labour market when choosing their degree and see what their prospects for work might be once they graduate. If they choose something obscure, say, archeology, or something with zero marketable skills (gender studies comes to mind) then they cannot complain of getting a raw deal when they're saddled with debt and can't find a job that makes use of their "education".

I will agree that people enrolled in university will not count as unemployed and this helps the government stats.

As a side note, in the U.S.A. student loan debt is greater than credit card debt and is the one debt you cannot file bankruptcy for. You're literally on the hook for life. It's what happens when you privatise what should be public and indoctrinate young people that uni is the only way to get ahead in life.

I'm just saying it's a bit unfair to expect 18 year olds to totally reject everything they've been fed for most of their lives so far. Many twice of three times their age fail to do so. University helps students to become more free thinking and encourages questioning the sources of all of your information. It's just unfortunate that through developing critical thinking, you discover that most of what led you to the point you at is a lie."

That's true and I won't dispute that. You'll find with age and experience that if you don't possess a dogmatic way of thinking and think constructively, you'll find a lot that you're taught and presented with in life is either a lie or distorted.

Having parents who think pragmatically that can offer some advice to impressionable young minds is very useful. Thank god for mine!

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"It depends on what degree you're aiming for and real world prospects of employability. Many a university degree are an exercise in uselessness with no real world practical application. It's been drilled into people that a uni degree is the way to go when this is not always the case. If you graduate with 40k in debt without even starting your career, your degree had better be worth it in terms of employability, otherwise the term "money making scam" comes to mind.

It's not just the universities. The government are implicit in it too as it has hidden their problem with youth unemployment. They are deliberately trying to keep young people in education for as long as possible and then those people just get shamed for doing what everyone has told them they are supposed to do to get a good job.

A university degree should never be equated with getting a good job and anyone who thinks this is seriously mistaken. People should do a study of the labour market when choosing their degree and see what their prospects for work might be once they graduate. If they choose something obscure, say, archeology, or something with zero marketable skills (gender studies comes to mind) then they cannot complain of getting a raw deal when they're saddled with debt and can't find a job that makes use of their "education".

I will agree that people enrolled in university will not count as unemployed and this helps the government stats.

As a side note, in the U.S.A. student loan debt is greater than credit card debt and is the one debt you cannot file bankruptcy for. You're literally on the hook for life. It's what happens when you privatise what should be public and indoctrinate young people that uni is the only way to get ahead in life.

I'm just saying it's a bit unfair to expect 18 year olds to totally reject everything they've been fed for most of their lives so far. Many twice of three times their age fail to do so. University helps students to become more free thinking and encourages questioning the sources of all of your information. It's just unfortunate that through developing critical thinking, you discover that most of what led you to the point you at is a lie.

That's true and I won't dispute that. You'll find with age and experience that if you don't possess a dogmatic way of thinking and think constructively, you'll find a lot that you're taught and presented with in life is either a lie or distorted.

Having parents who think pragmatically that can offer some advice to impressionable young minds is very useful. Thank god for mine! "

It is useful but not something all young people are fortunate enough to have. Also if your parents are from a generation where the majority of people who did go to university did very well from it then it's a little unfair to expect them to know any different. My grandad studied history at Cambridge in the 40s which apparently qualified him to be an accountant. Things are very different now. He was the only person in my family to get a degree until my dad and uncle did theirs as mature students in their 40s. My dad's was paid for by his work in order to get a promotion and my uncle did his in a very specific subject in order to set up his own business and look reputable. Both were already established in their careers and their degrees were just stepping stones to the next level. Both manages to progress to senior levels without even having decent GCSEs (O levels). You can't really do that now. My mum's qualifications are now a degree if you studied for the profession today but her training in my opinion sounds far superior to what is on offer today. The vocational "learning the job by doing the job" option is no longer available though. Times have changed and the job market is depressing as fuck if you're not already established in your field. There are very few options to work your way up as above a certain level, most jobs want a degree. However, affording to do a degree later in life can be impossible but if you decide to do it when you can afford to do it when you are young, you're then overqualified for entry level but not experienced enough for anything higher.

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest


"It depends on what degree you're aiming for and real world prospects of employability. Many a university degree are an exercise in uselessness with no real world practical application. It's been drilled into people that a uni degree is the way to go when this is not always the case. If you graduate with 40k in debt without even starting your career, your degree had better be worth it in terms of employability, otherwise the term "money making scam" comes to mind.

It's not just the universities. The government are implicit in it too as it has hidden their problem with youth unemployment. They are deliberately trying to keep young people in education for as long as possible and then those people just get shamed for doing what everyone has told them they are supposed to do to get a good job.

A university degree should never be equated with getting a good job and anyone who thinks this is seriously mistaken. People should do a study of the labour market when choosing their degree and see what their prospects for work might be once they graduate. If they choose something obscure, say, archeology, or something with zero marketable skills (gender studies comes to mind) then they cannot complain of getting a raw deal when they're saddled with debt and can't find a job that makes use of their "education".

I will agree that people enrolled in university will not count as unemployed and this helps the government stats.

As a side note, in the U.S.A. student loan debt is greater than credit card debt and is the one debt you cannot file bankruptcy for. You're literally on the hook for life. It's what happens when you privatise what should be public and indoctrinate young people that uni is the only way to get ahead in life.

I'm just saying it's a bit unfair to expect 18 year olds to totally reject everything they've been fed for most of their lives so far. Many twice of three times their age fail to do so. University helps students to become more free thinking and encourages questioning the sources of all of your information. It's just unfortunate that through developing critical thinking, you discover that most of what led you to the point you at is a lie.

That's true and I won't dispute that. You'll find with age and experience that if you don't possess a dogmatic way of thinking and think constructively, you'll find a lot that you're taught and presented with in life is either a lie or distorted.

Having parents who think pragmatically that can offer some advice to impressionable young minds is very useful. Thank god for mine!

It is useful but not something all young people are fortunate enough to have. Also if your parents are from a generation where the majority of people who did go to university did very well from it then it's a little unfair to expect them to know any different. My grandad studied history at Cambridge in the 40s which apparently qualified him to be an accountant. Things are very different now. He was the only person in my family to get a degree until my dad and uncle did theirs as mature students in their 40s. My dad's was paid for by his work in order to get a promotion and my uncle did his in a very specific subject in order to set up his own business and look reputable. Both were already established in their careers and their degrees were just stepping stones to the next level. Both manages to progress to senior levels without even having decent GCSEs (O levels). You can't really do that now. My mum's qualifications are now a degree if you studied for the profession today but her training in my opinion sounds far superior to what is on offer today. The vocational "learning the job by doing the job" option is no longer available though. Times have changed and the job market is depressing as fuck if you're not already established in your field. There are very few options to work your way up as above a certain level, most jobs want a degree. However, affording to do a degree later in life can be impossible but if you decide to do it when you can afford to do it when you are young, you're then overqualified for entry level but not experienced enough for anything higher. "

My parents attend technical schools instead of uni and were both working class and very practical in their approach to things.

Technical schools were brilliant and they still have them in Germany I believe. Young people are being herded into uni, often provided with too much theory and little practical, and saddled with debt to boot. I don't think it's accidental either.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It all depends on what you want from it and what you put into it.

Yes it's only a piece of paper that's says well done you have a bit of a brain. But it also houses a lot of world experts in their fields. It's up to the students to engage with the academics and this is where the true value lies. "

Agree wholeheartedly with this. I wouldn’t call something a waste of time that’s enabled me to be professionally qualified and able to practice in my chosen field. Yes, I’m always learning and developing new skills. But my uni degrees have provided an essential basis on which to build that lifelong learning and development.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"It depends on what degree you're aiming for and real world prospects of employability. Many a university degree are an exercise in uselessness with no real world practical application. It's been drilled into people that a uni degree is the way to go when this is not always the case. If you graduate with 40k in debt without even starting your career, your degree had better be worth it in terms of employability, otherwise the term "money making scam" comes to mind.

It's not just the universities. The government are implicit in it too as it has hidden their problem with youth unemployment. They are deliberately trying to keep young people in education for as long as possible and then those people just get shamed for doing what everyone has told them they are supposed to do to get a good job.

A university degree should never be equated with getting a good job and anyone who thinks this is seriously mistaken. People should do a study of the labour market when choosing their degree and see what their prospects for work might be once they graduate. If they choose something obscure, say, archeology, or something with zero marketable skills (gender studies comes to mind) then they cannot complain of getting a raw deal when they're saddled with debt and can't find a job that makes use of their "education".

I will agree that people enrolled in university will not count as unemployed and this helps the government stats.

As a side note, in the U.S.A. student loan debt is greater than credit card debt and is the one debt you cannot file bankruptcy for. You're literally on the hook for life. It's what happens when you privatise what should be public and indoctrinate young people that uni is the only way to get ahead in life.

I'm just saying it's a bit unfair to expect 18 year olds to totally reject everything they've been fed for most of their lives so far. Many twice of three times their age fail to do so. University helps students to become more free thinking and encourages questioning the sources of all of your information. It's just unfortunate that through developing critical thinking, you discover that most of what led you to the point you at is a lie.

That's true and I won't dispute that. You'll find with age and experience that if you don't possess a dogmatic way of thinking and think constructively, you'll find a lot that you're taught and presented with in life is either a lie or distorted.

Having parents who think pragmatically that can offer some advice to impressionable young minds is very useful. Thank god for mine!

It is useful but not something all young people are fortunate enough to have. Also if your parents are from a generation where the majority of people who did go to university did very well from it then it's a little unfair to expect them to know any different. My grandad studied history at Cambridge in the 40s which apparently qualified him to be an accountant. Things are very different now. He was the only person in my family to get a degree until my dad and uncle did theirs as mature students in their 40s. My dad's was paid for by his work in order to get a promotion and my uncle did his in a very specific subject in order to set up his own business and look reputable. Both were already established in their careers and their degrees were just stepping stones to the next level. Both manages to progress to senior levels without even having decent GCSEs (O levels). You can't really do that now. My mum's qualifications are now a degree if you studied for the profession today but her training in my opinion sounds far superior to what is on offer today. The vocational "learning the job by doing the job" option is no longer available though. Times have changed and the job market is depressing as fuck if you're not already established in your field. There are very few options to work your way up as above a certain level, most jobs want a degree. However, affording to do a degree later in life can be impossible but if you decide to do it when you can afford to do it when you are young, you're then overqualified for entry level but not experienced enough for anything higher.

My parents attend technical schools instead of uni and were both working class and very practical in their approach to things.

Technical schools were brilliant and they still have them in Germany I believe. Young people are being herded into uni, often provided with too much theory and little practical, and saddled with debt to boot. I don't think it's accidental either."

Precisely. Schools are actively pushing them away from other options too by dropping certain subjects as GCSE options. My high school used to offer the option of a BTEC instead of one of your GCSEs but I don't hear of that anymore. Yet everyone blames young people for going down the route they are pushed down.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Critical thinking should not be something you learn in school, it should be encouraged from an early age.

All children have an enquiring mind however it is not encouraged and in some cases actively discouraged. Schools want you to stick to the program and dont have time to stray from the curriculum. Parents dont have the time, patience and/or knowledge to engage in the constant "why?" questions and kids are conditioned into doing as they are told, without question.

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest


"Critical thinking should not be something you learn in school, it should be encouraged from an early age.

All children have an enquiring mind however it is not encouraged and in some cases actively discouraged. Schools want you to stick to the program and dont have time to stray from the curriculum. Parents dont have the time, patience and/or knowledge to engage in the constant "why?" questions and kids are conditioned into doing as they are told, without question.

"

This is very true. I was fortunate in that my mother in particular was very inquisitive and always encouraged critical thinking. I feel that schools in general are fast becoming centers of indoctrination as opposed to a place to develop a healthy, inquiring mind. Philosophy should be taught from an early age and kept all throughout the schooling years in my opinion.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"Critical thinking should not be something you learn in school, it should be encouraged from an early age.

All children have an enquiring mind however it is not encouraged and in some cases actively discouraged. Schools want you to stick to the program and dont have time to stray from the curriculum. Parents dont have the time, patience and/or knowledge to engage in the constant "why?" questions and kids are conditioned into doing as they are told, without question.

"

Hate to sound cynical but they don't want the masses to question the status quo. All hell would break loose then

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Thing is, the degree is only part of it. Your success comes in within.

My son walked out of university with a 2:1 in Games Development and maths in July. He started work in September as a game scripter working for a guy very well known

He worked hard, had the drive and motivation

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest


"Critical thinking should not be something you learn in school, it should be encouraged from an early age.

All children have an enquiring mind however it is not encouraged and in some cases actively discouraged. Schools want you to stick to the program and dont have time to stray from the curriculum. Parents dont have the time, patience and/or knowledge to engage in the constant "why?" questions and kids are conditioned into doing as they are told, without question.

Hate to sound cynical but they don't want the masses to question the status quo. All hell would break loose then "

That's certainly one of the main reasons. A population of skilled, unquestioning automatons is far easier to manage than one that actively asks questions and challenges the status quo.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We are both kinda using our degrees we obtained in our jobs now, so yes as much as they aren't high flying jobs, it certainly puts you ahead of the competition having a degree.

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By *oodnitegirlWoman
over a year ago

Yorkshire

My sister for example did ‘forensic science’ mine is nursing.

I feel though my sisters was probably a harder degree unless you’re the lucky 1 in 300 that can get a job it’s a bit of a ‘Mickey Mouse’ subject that said she has progressed into teaching (not that subject) at least I can use mine for what it was intended.

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By *hatYorkLadMan
over a year ago

York

One of my ex's went to do a three year degree in movie make up artistry, last I heard she was doing false nails and waxing, bit of a difference!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"One of my ex's went to do a three year degree in movie make up artistry, last I heard she was doing false nails and waxing, bit of a difference! "

And probably like me, has more qualifications and less pay than her boss

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I loved every second of it. It was one of the best things that's ever happened to me. I went to uni locally to where I lived, I was 25 and didn't do the whole student experience. I just went to wonderful lectures and classes and read amazing books. It was heaven.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Since that clown Blair made it almost compulsory to go to uni then Uni's have become money making grabbers and the students are cash cows. Everyone has a degree now whether they want it or not..it is so watered down that you will be lucky to get a decent job after graduation. The only exception is to study for a profession in medicine, dentistry, etc or some of the few courses where top employers recruit from.

There are now degrees in nursing ffs and soon policeman will all have degrees too.

The only problem with that is that our nurses study bloody hard to get their degree but are then paid peanuts.

I am not knocking the students but my advice is to look past the degree and your future after that..

"

Are you denigrating degree nurses? The hospital is no longer a hierarchical institution and, as such, the nurses are in prime position to be be in charge of a patient's care. Why? All the other professionals only deal with one aspect of the patient, whereas the nurse deals with the patient holistically and coordinates various aspect of care. Nurses are managers of people's health needs in hospital. And yes disgustingly get paid peanuts for the responsibilities they have. Do you know how often a patient is fit for medical discharge (a Dr's discharge) but not fit for discharge? Too often, and then you get failed discharges.

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.

Was it a waste of time for me? No. I absolutely adored every minute of it. I had the chance to learn from some incredible minds, to meet brilliant people and to indulge in my true passion in life. There wasn't a single lecture I found dull. I didn't use it for my career but I could have easily done so. The transferable skills I learned during it though have helped me numerous times throughout my professional life and personal. I'm quite fortunate in that I graduated with no debt (not due to parents but because I worked a fuck ton of hours during term time and the holidays) and I think it's a crying shame the amount of debt some amass during studying.

I don't think it is right for everyone necessarily but it was for me. One day I'd like to go back to do my PhD - not because of benefits to my career but because it's something I really enjoyed.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"Critical thinking should not be something you learn in school, it should be encouraged from an early age.

All children have an enquiring mind however it is not encouraged and in some cases actively discouraged. Schools want you to stick to the program and dont have time to stray from the curriculum. Parents dont have the time, patience and/or knowledge to engage in the constant "why?" questions and kids are conditioned into doing as they are told, without question.

Hate to sound cynical but they don't want the masses to question the status quo. All hell would break loose then

That's certainly one of the main reasons. A population of skilled, unquestioning automatons is far easier to manage than one that actively asks questions and challenges the status quo. "

I'm glad someone else gets where I'm coming from. People often look at me like I should be wearing a tin foil hat when I say similar.

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By *egasus NobMan
over a year ago

Merton

[Removed by poster at 03/12/19 16:23:33]

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"Since that clown Blair made it almost compulsory to go to uni then Uni's have become money making grabbers and the students are cash cows. Everyone has a degree now whether they want it or not..it is so watered down that you will be lucky to get a decent job after graduation. The only exception is to study for a profession in medicine, dentistry, etc or some of the few courses where top employers recruit from.

There are now degrees in nursing ffs and soon policeman will all have degrees too.

The only problem with that is that our nurses study bloody hard to get their degree but are then paid peanuts.

I am not knocking the students but my advice is to look past the degree and your future after that..

Are you denigrating degree nurses? The hospital is no longer a hierarchical institution and, as such, the nurses are in prime position to be be in charge of a patient's care. Why? All the other professionals only deal with one aspect of the patient, whereas the nurse deals with the patient holistically and coordinates various aspect of care. Nurses are managers of people's health needs in hospital. And yes disgustingly get paid peanuts for the responsibilities they have. Do you know how often a patient is fit for medical discharge (a Dr's discharge) but not fit for discharge? Too often, and then you get failed discharges. "

For once I actually agree with him. As he says it's not criticising the students and they do work hard to get their degree. It just doesn't make it a very appealing career choice to get into debt to earn what they do. Of course for starters the wages should be better but I personally think it was better in my mum's day when they were paid to train on the job.

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By *egasus NobMan
over a year ago

Merton

The thing about University is learning begins after. If you are short-sighted it is a waste. What I got from uni is a direction, from what I have seen going to uni have worked for 2 out of 3 people I know but that was before £9000 fee. Really, depend on what you study or you would not get anywhere if you are looking to go into finance, accounting, mathematics, physics, law heavily academy course without at least a bachelor degree.

Practical course does not need university infact I would say uni stunt grow when it comes to pracical courses like most Art related subject or hands on subject Computer science, Music, Drama, Food etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am highly cynical about the university system and believe most degrees are money making schemes.

There is clear educational inflation happening and at some point that bubble has to burst.

However, for my particular vocation, university was absolutely necessary."

This. And despite the necessity of the degree to get the job, it was still worthless for the actual work

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Since that clown Blair made it almost compulsory to go to uni then Uni's have become money making grabbers and the students are cash cows. Everyone has a degree now whether they want it or not..it is so watered down that you will be lucky to get a decent job after graduation. The only exception is to study for a profession in medicine, dentistry, etc or some of the few courses where top employers recruit from.

There are now degrees in nursing ffs and soon policeman will all have degrees too.

The only problem with that is that our nurses study bloody hard to get their degree but are then paid peanuts.

I am not knocking the students but my advice is to look past the degree and your future after that..

Are you denigrating degree nurses? The hospital is no longer a hierarchical institution and, as such, the nurses are in prime position to be be in charge of a patient's care. Why? All the other professionals only deal with one aspect of the patient, whereas the nurse deals with the patient holistically and coordinates various aspect of care. Nurses are managers of people's health needs in hospital. And yes disgustingly get paid peanuts for the responsibilities they have. Do you know how often a patient is fit for medical discharge (a Dr's discharge) but not fit for discharge? Too often, and then you get failed discharges.

For once I actually agree with him. As he says it's not criticising the students and they do work hard to get their degree. It just doesn't make it a very appealing career choice to get into debt to earn what they do. Of course for starters the wages should be better but I personally think it was better in my mum's day when they were paid to train on the job. "

Some courses do pay you to train - mine was one of them. They’re few and far between though I think, which is a shame ...

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool


"The thing about University is learning begins after. If you are short-sighted it is a waste. What I got from uni is a direction, from what I have seen going to uni have worked for 2 out of 3 people I know but that was before £9000 fee. Really, depend on what you study or you would not get anywhere if you are looking to go into finance, accounting, mathematics, physics, law heavily academy course without at least a bachelor degree.

Practical course does not need university infact I would say uni stunt grow when it comes to pracical courses like most Art related subject or hands on subject Computer science, Music, Drama, Food etc."

Its interesting you say that as while I'm not so hung up on things needing the "degree" label (though at the same time so what if it's called a degree instead of a diploma if it's basically the same thing), a lot of creative courses from universities that used to be polytechnics have amazing facilities, history and industry connections. My university had historical archives of every single issue of vogue magazine, 3 rooms of industrial sewing machines, a leather store, a room of leather sewing machines, 3D printers, laser cutters, glass blowing, a whole room of textile printers to print your own patterned fabric, embroidery machines, metal and wood workshops, etc. Anyone could book into these workshops and the technicians were really helpful so you ended up with for example fashion, furniture, graphic and product design students all working alongside each other and gaining inspiration from each other. Nearly all my friends who did creative degrees have jobs in their field as they learnt practical skills required for the jobs they applied for. I can't say the same for my friends who did more academic degrees.

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By *spotpleasurerMan
over a year ago

Norwich

A waste of time?

Absolutely not for me since my job is directly related to my degree. It is only a waste of time if you are not interested in what you are studying and not engaged with the course.

Leaving education aside, since this is supposedly a swinger site, I'm surprised nobody has commented about the sexual side of things.

University is often the first time young people are living away from home with others of a similar age group. It can be the age of sexual awakening and exploring your sexuality.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"A waste of time?

Absolutely not for me since my job is directly related to my degree. It is only a waste of time if you are not interested in what you are studying and not engaged with the course.

Leaving education aside, since this is supposedly a swinger site, I'm surprised nobody has commented about the sexual side of things.

University is often the first time young people are living away from home with others of a similar age group. It can be the age of sexual awakening and exploring your sexuality."

For me personally am in my final year of my two degrees - they are needed for the jobs i want to do plus will also help me travel

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