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innocent until proven guilty?

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

omg hes human with human desires we've all got them just because he associated with a wrongun doesnt make him one, we can't all choose the right friends or be good pickers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People tend to live by 'no smoke without fire' than 'innocent until proven guilty'

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By *tephTV67TV/TS
over a year ago

Cheshire

He's not innocent of staying friends with a convicted sex offender. Staying with him for four days, in a so called finishing his friendship visit

His lack of compassion to the victims of Jeffrey Epstein.

So Businesses will be well aware he's toxic after the interview, so I don't blame them for wanting to distance themselves from the Prince.

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By *affron40Woman
over a year ago

manchester

Trial by social media..

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By *etter the devil you knowWoman
over a year ago

Lyndhurst


"He's not innocent of staying friends with a convicted sex offender. Staying with him for four days, in a so called finishing his friendship visit

His lack of compassion to the victims of Jeffrey Epstein.

So Businesses will be well aware he's toxic after the interview, so I don't blame them for wanting to distance themselves from the Prince. "

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

He has also admitted to meeting Ghisllaine Maxwell as recently as June despite the allegations against her.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I'd love to go look at all the threads about grooming gangs in Rotherham, Tommy Robinson and trials etc, and compare with the responses on this same question.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Innocent until proven guilty is another way of expressing the standard in criminal trials. It's not something which is or should be universally applied.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.?"

He is toxic for any business's reputation. None want the association.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

lol he's convicted then, see thats what he is up against

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds


"lol he's convicted then, see thats what he is up against "

He has confirmed he went to a paedophile's 'release from prison' celebration dinner party. Why would businesses, Universities and charities want to be associated with someone who did this ?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

East Sussex

I have no sympathy for him. However there is nothing that I've seen that suggests he's guilty of anything more than being entitled and arrogant with a serious lack of judgement and empathy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"lol he's convicted then, see thats what he is up against

He has confirmed he went to a paedophile's 'release from prison' celebration dinner party. Why would businesses, Universities and charities want to be associated with someone who did this ? "

guilty by association ok epstein was guilty and has served the ultimate penalty for his crime death by suicide doesn't make prince Andrew a paedophile does it he's done the right thing and pulled away from public life but he probably never knew of Epsteins past i certainly never knew

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

So he didn't know why his friend served 13 months in prison ?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"lol he's convicted then, see thats what he is up against "

We're talking reputations here.

He's done a Ratner.

He's finished.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whilst the presumption of innocence is alive and well in court, it seems to be less so in the general public and non existent in the media.

Andrew is toxic and association with him is equally toxic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So he didn't know why his friend served 13 months in prison ?"
who knows, you don't and i don't so maybe just maybe he didn't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So he didn't know why his friend served 13 months in prison ?who knows, you don't and i don't so maybe just maybe he didn't. "
it would all be conjecture would it not certainly if i knew i wouldn't have associated with him and Prince Andrew is an intelligent man so surely you would think the same of him

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds


"So he didn't know why his friend served 13 months in prison ?

who knows, you don't and i don't so maybe just maybe he didn't. "

It is fact that Epstein pleaded guilty in 2008 and was convicted by a Florida court for procuring an underage girl for the purpose of prostitution. How could Andrew not be aware of that ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So he didn't know why his friend served 13 months in prison ?

who knows, you don't and i don't so maybe just maybe he didn't.

It is fact that Epstein pleaded guilty in 2008 and was convicted by a Florida court for procuring an underage girl for the purpose of prostitution. How could Andrew not be aware of that ?"

it was in florida I'm just saying maybe he didn't thats quite a plausible thought surely?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

East Sussex


"So he didn't know why his friend served 13 months in prison ?

who knows, you don't and i don't so maybe just maybe he didn't.

It is fact that Epstein pleaded guilty in 2008 and was convicted by a Florida court for procuring an underage girl for the purpose of prostitution. How could Andrew not be aware of that ?"

He was probably in a random Pizza Express when the news hit.

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds


"

He was probably in a random Pizza Express when the news hit. "

Of course. A remote branch without wifi.

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By *tephTV67TV/TS
over a year ago

Cheshire


"So he didn't know why his friend served 13 months in prison ?who knows, you don't and i don't so maybe just maybe he didn't. "

He knew ....from the interview he was asked, here is his answer

Andrew: Right, I have always … ever since this has happened and since this has become, as it were, public knowledge that I was there, I’ve questioned myself as to why did I go and what was I doing and was it the right thing to do? Now, I went there with the sole purpose of saying to him that because he had been convicted, it was inappropriate for us to be seen together. I felt that doing it over the telephone was the chicken’s way of doing it. I had to go and see him and talk to him.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow

Did prince Andrew not make a comment about the age of consent being 16 (in the UK) & the offenses were in the US where the age is 18 in many places I believe. It sounded to me like he we trying to justify actions via ignorance.

Therefore since he is in a position of power & influence, he should be extra careful about these things especially regarding sex where this is a very big black brush to be tarred with.

Sex or sexual activities with anyone underage is statutory r**e regardless of if they agreed to it.

I teach my son these things for this very reason.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Innocent until proven guilty is another way of expressing the standard in criminal trials. It's not something which is or should be universally applied. "

And right there you show how twisted our society has become because of 'Social media'. So its OK to judge people right off? Bring in the vigilantes ..

On Social Media (like here) people who are able to convict people on hearsay or rumour or just because they dislike the person. Many here hate Royalty so, inter alia, Andrew is a nonce. I use that word carefully as it has been used twice to my knowledge on Threads here. Disgusting attitude.

Andrew made an error of judgment and has fessed up to that and the way it has tarnished his Family. He has apologised for that in public and (despite what some on here saying otherwise) he has also been very sympathetic to people affected by Epstein.

I hope you are never confronted by a jury who have the same mindset as yourself.

Everyone, as defined in Magna Carta of 1215, are INNOCENT until proven guilty by a jury of their peers. Andrew is, was always and remains INNOCENT.

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

Thanks for clarification Steph.

Shocking that he says "it is not appropriate for us to be seen together" rather than "I am appalled at what you did".

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By *udewhennudeMan
over a year ago

newport

Why does everyone misquote the phrase, they always forget the ‘presumed’ bit. Someone is either guilty or innocent as soon as a crime is committed. Even if they are subsequently found innocent they may still be guilty, it just hasn’t been possible to prove it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So he didn't know why his friend served 13 months in prison ?who knows, you don't and i don't so maybe just maybe he didn't.

He knew ....from the interview he was asked, here is his answer

Andrew: Right, I have always … ever since this has happened and since this has become, as it were, public knowledge that I was there, I’ve questioned myself as to why did I go and what was I doing and was it the right thing to do? Now, I went there with the sole purpose of saying to him that because he had been convicted, it was inappropriate for us to be seen together. I felt that doing it over the telephone was the chicken’s way of doing it. I had to go and see him and talk to him."

oh well their you have it, i never saw the interview but he went to advise him he was disassociating with him, probably a bad decision in hindsight but maybe he really liked the guy and felt that was the honest thing to do, sometimes you just don't know a person you like as well as you think you do

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"He's not innocent of staying friends with a convicted sex offender. Staying with him for four days, in a so called finishing his friendship visit

His lack of compassion to the victims of Jeffrey Epstein.

So Businesses will be well aware he's toxic after the interview, so I don't blame them for wanting to distance themselves from the Prince. "

Correct Steph ..... Co fookin' correct !!

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"So he didn't know why his friend served 13 months in prison ?who knows, you don't and i don't so maybe just maybe he didn't. "

He knew about Epstein's conviction for grooming girls for solicitation and trafficking.

How do I know.

Because said so himself.

It was the reason he went to see him, to end their friendship.

Now, if you'd just discovered your friend was a paedophile who ran a grooming gang - and had just served time in prison for it - how would you end the friendship?

By shunning him completely?

Writing him a "fuck off you nonce" letter?

Or going to stay at his house for 4 nights?

Wakey, wakey, time to smell the coffee on this one.

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot


"I have no sympathy for him. However there is nothing that I've seen that suggests he's guilty of anything more than being entitled and arrogant with a serious lack of judgement and empathy.

"

This.

It's trial by idiot.

I saw a post the other condemning him as a mid 50s bloke screwing a 17 year old girl.

FFS, he wasn't 54 at the time.

He's a paedophile!!!! No he's not. Never been charged let alone found guilty.

Did he break the law? No.

Was it morally wrong? Possibly.

Is his judgement sound? No.

Should he have distanced himself from those convicted of heinous crimes? Hell yes.

Is he a bit of a pillock? Uh huh.....

I saw a post a couple of days ago where someone suggested it would be ok if he was killed.

His crime? Being a toff.

I question people's logic, good old fashioned gumption and sanity sometimes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So he didn't know why his friend served 13 months in prison ?who knows, you don't and i don't so maybe just maybe he didn't.

He knew ....from the interview he was asked, here is his answer

Andrew: Right, I have always … ever since this has happened and since this has become, as it were, public knowledge that I was there, I’ve questioned myself as to why did I go and what was I doing and was it the right thing to do? Now, I went there with the sole purpose of saying to him that because he had been convicted, it was inappropriate for us to be seen together. I felt that doing it over the telephone was the chicken’s way of doing it. I had to go and see him and talk to him.oh well their you have it, i never saw the interview but he went to advise him he was disassociating with him, probably a bad decision in hindsight but maybe he really liked the guy and felt that was the honest thing to do, sometimes you just don't know a person you like as well as you think you do "

i would have sent a text and blocked him from my phone but if you can afford a return ticket to the USA........ Prince Andrew as far as we know is not a paedophile though but as with all people in the public eye they have to set an exemplary example so he is therefore right to pull away from the public eye and the charities he supported or that required his support.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They should just leave him alone the media over here have nothing better to do and most of it is fake news!

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"I have no sympathy for him. However there is nothing that I've seen that suggests he's guilty of anything more than being entitled and arrogant with a serious lack of judgement and empathy.

This.

It's trial by idiot.

I saw a post the other condemning him as a mid 50s bloke screwing a 17 year old girl.

FFS, he wasn't 54 at the time.

He's a paedophile!!!! No he's not. Never been charged let alone found guilty.

Did he break the law? No.

Was it morally wrong? Possibly.

Is his judgement sound? No.

Should he have distanced himself from those convicted of heinous crimes? Hell yes.

Is he a bit of a pillock? Uh huh.....

I saw a post a couple of days ago where someone suggested it would be ok if he was killed.

His crime? Being a toff.

I question people's logic, good old fashioned gumption and sanity sometimes.

"

And that , young man, is EXACTLY why I value you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So he didn't know why his friend served 13 months in prison ?

who knows, you don't and i don't so maybe just maybe he didn't.

It is fact that Epstein pleaded guilty in 2008 and was convicted by a Florida court for procuring an underage girl for the purpose of prostitution. How could Andrew not be aware of that ?it was in florida I'm just saying maybe he didn't thats quite a plausible thought surely? "

Plausible yes but Andrew has got staff and advisors around who would have been able to tell him of Epstein sentence. They would probably have advised against going but Andrew has a reputation of ignoring those people and doing as he wants. Dont forget that his nickname was Randy Andy many years ago. He didnt get that by being an innocent onlooker. On this occasion he made a big mistake by going to Epsteins premises and being seen where young ladies were. He is now paying the price of his folly.

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By *ssex_tom OP   Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

I think when Corby gets in it is the beginning of the end of the toffs. More social mobility is needed.. but hang on.. the poor become the new toffs. I am confused

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"omg hes human with human desires we've all got them just because he associated with a wrongun doesnt make him one, we can't all choose the right friends or be good pickers "

he had sex with an under age child that is wrong and against the law as their are allegations he had sex with a child coming from the person who he abused

he encouraged epstein to pay off his wife's debts because even she said she was sorry years ago that he had

thing is we will never know the truth because the queen may or may not gag people because she can

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"omg hes human with human desires we've all got them just because he associated with a wrongun doesnt make him one, we can't all choose the right friends or be good pickers

he had sex with an under age child that is wrong and against the law as their are allegations he had sex with a child coming from the person who he abused

he encouraged epstein to pay off his wife's debts because even she said she was sorry years ago that he had

thing is we will never know the truth because the queen may or may not gag people because she can

"

Whoa ......... !

Who had sex ?

There were NO children present ever from what I know.

Young women , yes, children no.

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot


"I have no sympathy for him. However there is nothing that I've seen that suggests he's guilty of anything more than being entitled and arrogant with a serious lack of judgement and empathy.

This.

It's trial by idiot.

I saw a post the other condemning him as a mid 50s bloke screwing a 17 year old girl.

FFS, he wasn't 54 at the time.

He's a paedophile!!!! No he's not. Never been charged let alone found guilty.

Did he break the law? No.

Was it morally wrong? Possibly.

Is his judgement sound? No.

Should he have distanced himself from those convicted of heinous crimes? Hell yes.

Is he a bit of a pillock? Uh huh.....

I saw a post a couple of days ago where someone suggested it would be ok if he was killed.

His crime? Being a toff.

I question people's logic, good old fashioned gumption and sanity sometimes.

And that , young man, is EXACTLY why I value you."

Thanks Granny.

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot


"omg hes human with human desires we've all got them just because he associated with a wrongun doesnt make him one, we can't all choose the right friends or be good pickers

he had sex with an under age child that is wrong and against the law as their are allegations he had sex with a child coming from the person who he abused

he encouraged epstein to pay off his wife's debts because even she said she was sorry years ago that he had

thing is we will never know the truth because the queen may or may not gag people because she can

"

Here we go again. FFS.

He did not have sex with an underage child.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think when Corby gets in it is the beginning of the end of the toffs. More social mobility is needed.. but hang on.. the poor become the new toffs. I am confused "

Corbyn covered up a child abuse case what makes him any different.

Alex salmond the scottish MP is being tried on sexual allegations and he too covered up on a case involving a child in scotland ....

sexual abuse within Parliament is old news it has been going on for years but they do not get tried for it. BBC employed Saville for years and they all knew he was a paedophile ...so was Rolf Harris.

Royalty will just get a ticking off and the queen will demand no one to know it will be a done and closed case

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"

Sex or sexual activities with anyone underage is statutory r**e regardless of if they agreed to it.

"

I think statutory r*pe in the UK is sex with a child under the age of 12 years - the law presumes that someone under that age isn't mature enough to make their own decisions about such things.

I agree with you, though.

Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor is a creep.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" he had sex with an under age child that is wrong and against the law"

No he didn't and you have no proof he did so you are judging without cause like most others on here and have done in two other Threads.


" as their are allegations he had sex with a child coming from the person who he abused "

yes 'allegations' that have emerged some 17 years after the event as lawyers pick over Epsteins huge wealth for their percentage. And so if I 'allege' you are lying does that make it a fact?


" thing is we will never know the truth because the queen may or may not gag people because she can "

Ah OK. So let me get this right? So because there have been no charges, he hasn't been arrested let alone convicted and remains innocent HM The Queen is involved and will make sure it remains covered up? Right?

That has to be the biggest load of conspiracy theory crap ever. But its the sort of crap that gains traction on Social Media.

As someone once said "Twitter is not real life"

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot


" he had sex with an under age child that is wrong and against the law

No he didn't and you have no proof he did so you are judging without cause like most others on here and have done in two other Threads.

as their are allegations he had sex with a child coming from the person who he abused

yes 'allegations' that have emerged some 17 years after the event as lawyers pick over Epsteins huge wealth for their percentage. And so if I 'allege' you are lying does that make it a fact?

thing is we will never know the truth because the queen may or may not gag people because she can

Ah OK. So let me get this right? So because there have been no charges, he hasn't been arrested let alone convicted and remains innocent HM The Queen is involved and will make sure it remains covered up? Right?

That has to be the biggest load of conspiracy theory crap ever. But its the sort of crap that gains traction on Social Media.

As someone once said "Twitter is not real life""

Preach.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Preach. "

Eh?

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot


" Preach.

Eh? "

I agree with your post.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes innocent until found guilty, it is strange of how most of these allegations against celebs comes after 20 years no doubt it is the recent #metoo campaign that is behind it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Preach.

Eh?

I agree with your post."

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


" Preach.

Eh?

I agree with your post.

"

Get with the lingo Flirty Old Man. Like the rest of us dudes n dudettes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I have no sympathy for him. However there is nothing that I've seen that suggests he's guilty of anything more than being entitled and arrogant with a serious lack of judgement and empathy.

"

This. And I don't like him either but that doesn't actually make him a bad person....

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By *oney to the beeWoman
over a year ago

Manchester


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?"

True but do you ever think he would be prosecuted even if he was guilty.

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?"

I can see why they are disassociating themselves from him, because of his association with Epstein. But it is not proven he's had sex with anyone who's not of a legal age.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In fairness despite the association and the allegations being widespread for many, many months people have only dropped hom since the disastrous interview

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford


"In fairness despite the association and the allegations being widespread for many, many months people have only dropped hom since the disastrous interview "

Yes I'm sure it didn't help.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Preach.

Eh?

I agree with your post.

Get with the lingo Flirty Old Man. Like the rest of us dudes n dudettes."

One does try ...

Or is that 'very trying'? ...

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"Innocent until proven guilty is another way of expressing the standard in criminal trials. It's not something which is or should be universally applied.

And right there you show how twisted our society has become because of 'Social media'. So its OK to judge people right off? Bring in the vigilantes ..

On Social Media (like here) people who are able to convict people on hearsay or rumour or just because they dislike the person. Many here hate Royalty so, inter alia, Andrew is a nonce. I use that word carefully as it has been used twice to my knowledge on Threads here. Disgusting attitude.

Andrew made an error of judgment and has fessed up to that and the way it has tarnished his Family. He has apologised for that in public and (despite what some on here saying otherwise) he has also been very sympathetic to people affected by Epstein.

I hope you are never confronted by a jury who have the same mindset as yourself.

Everyone, as defined in Magna Carta of 1215, are INNOCENT until proven guilty by a jury of their peers. Andrew is, was always and remains INNOCENT."

... Woah woah woah.

All I said was that the criminal standard only applies in criminal courts. Which is true. I said nothing about the merits of any judgement of anyone in any way. I don't know enough to comment specifically, and I have not. But courts apply different standards in different circumstances, and outside of courts different rules apply. I'm sorry, but that is bland, boring, fact.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"omg hes human with human desires we've all got them just because he associated with a wrongun doesnt make him one, we can't all choose the right friends or be good pickers

he had sex with an under age child that is wrong and against the law as their are allegations he had sex with a child coming from the person who he abused

he encouraged epstein to pay off his wife's debts because even she said she was sorry years ago that he had

thing is we will never know the truth because the queen may or may not gag people because she can

"

who had sex with an underage child Prince Andrew because the question is about Prince Andrew, Epstein was convicted of having sex with an underage prostitute and went to jail and subsequently killed himself but Prince Andrew is only guilty of association nothing else hes stepped down from public duty what more can he do he's not a crook himself although the gutter press would have you believe that too

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By *tella HeelsTV/TS
over a year ago

west here ford shire


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?"

It’s business, if his association is causing profits to drop, then chop you’re gone

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

True but do you ever think he would be prosecuted even if he was guilty. "

He wouldn't be guilty until he was tried and proven so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

True but do you ever think he would be prosecuted even if he was guilty.

He wouldn't be guilty until he was tried and proven so."

He wouldn't be FOUND guilty until tried. Someone can be guilty without having been found guilty.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" He wouldn't be FOUND guilty until tried. Someone can be guilty without having been found guilty. "

Sorry but absolutely no. A person is innocent until such time as a jury find them guilty of whatever offence.

Innocence is a presumed and sacred right and exists in perpetuity. Guilt is a defined event

To prove my point much as it may offend people including myself but Saville died an innocent man.

Happily Lords Brittain and Bramall both died innocent men despite the best efforts of the Met's Operation Midland to pursue them and others (also innocent) on the word of 'Nick' and egged on by the Nonce Finder General Tom Watson. A better example of 'presumed guilt', political interference and social media stupidity regarding sex offences will never be found and it cost £ Mns.

We now can add Prince Andrew ....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" He wouldn't be FOUND guilty until tried. Someone can be guilty without having been found guilty.

Sorry but absolutely no. A person is innocent until such time as a jury find them guilty of whatever offence.

Innocence is a presumed and sacred right and exists in perpetuity. Guilt is a defined event

To prove my point much as it may offend people including myself but Saville died an innocent man.

Happily Lords Brittain and Bramall both died innocent men despite the best efforts of the Met's Operation Midland to pursue them and others (also innocent) on the word of 'Nick' and egged on by the Nonce Finder General Tom Watson. A better example of 'presumed guilt', political interference and social media stupidity regarding sex offences will never be found and it cost £ Mns.

We now can add Prince Andrew ...."

I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. A person who has committed a crime cannot, by definition be innocent of that crime. They can however, be presumed innocent by others until guilt is either determined or not.

Interestingly, a person who is found Not Guilty at court is still not proved to be innocent, even though they may be actually innocent, as a court does not address innocence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. A person who has committed a crime cannot, by definition be innocent of that crime. They can however, be presumed innocent by others until guilt is either determined or not.

Interestingly, a person who is found Not Guilty at court is still not proved to be innocent, even though they may be actually innocent, as a court does not address innocence."

Whoaaa ... back the bus up ... Can we clarify the sequence here?

A person is only CONVICTED of committing a crime AFTER they have been found GUILTY by a Jury (or magistrates). They are totally, absolutely and forever INNOCENT until that conviction. You are placing guilt before conviction.

And how can you possibly then say someone found 'not guilty' is still 'not innocent'? Is this some new creation of the world of social media reversal. So a man goes to trial and is found Not Guilty but is still 'not innocent'? How very very wrong you are and I hope you never have that experience.

And for good order lets just note Andrew has never been questioned, arrested, charged, put before a court, convicted let alone found Guilty of anything. He is therefore not only NOT guilty he remains therefore innocent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. A person who has committed a crime cannot, by definition be innocent of that crime. They can however, be presumed innocent by others until guilt is either determined or not.

Interestingly, a person who is found Not Guilty at court is still not proved to be innocent, even though they may be actually innocent, as a court does not address innocence.

Whoaaa ... back the bus up ... Can we clarify the sequence here?

A person is only CONVICTED of committing a crime AFTER they have been found GUILTY by a Jury (or magistrates). They are totally, absolutely and forever INNOCENT until that conviction. You are placing guilt before conviction.

And how can you possibly then say someone found 'not guilty' is still 'not innocent'? Is this some new creation of the world of social media reversal. So a man goes to trial and is found Not Guilty but is still 'not innocent'? How very very wrong you are and I hope you never have that experience.

And for good order lets just note Andrew has never been questioned, arrested, charged, put before a court, convicted let alone found Guilty of anything. He is therefore not only NOT guilty he remains therefore innocent."

exactly this

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. A person who has committed a crime cannot, by definition be innocent of that crime. They can however, be presumed innocent by others until guilt is either determined or not.

Interestingly, a person who is found Not Guilty at court is still not proved to be innocent, even though they may be actually innocent, as a court does not address innocence.

Whoaaa ... back the bus up ... Can we clarify the sequence here?

A person is only CONVICTED of committing a crime AFTER they have been found GUILTY by a Jury (or magistrates). They are totally, absolutely and forever INNOCENT until that conviction. You are placing guilt before conviction.

And how can you possibly then say someone found 'not guilty' is still 'not innocent'? Is this some new creation of the world of social media reversal. So a man goes to trial and is found Not Guilty but is still 'not innocent'? How very very wrong you are and I hope you never have that experience.

And for good order lets just note Andrew has never been questioned, arrested, charged, put before a court, convicted let alone found Guilty of anything. He is therefore not only NOT guilty he remains therefore innocent."

Because being found guilty is not the same thing as being guilty. A man may go to trial and be found guilty of a crime he did not commit, this has happened many times. According to your position, even though he did not commit a crime, he's still guilty.

Conversely, a person who did commit a crime can be found not guilty at court. This is because the prosecution did not present a good enough case. He's not innocent of that crime despite being found not guilty.

A court never decides on innocence, only guilt. And the presumption of innocence is utterly independent of the truth of innocence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. A person who has committed a crime cannot, by definition be innocent of that crime. They can however, be presumed innocent by others until guilt is either determined or not.

Interestingly, a person who is found Not Guilty at court is still not proved to be innocent, even though they may be actually innocent, as a court does not address innocence.

Whoaaa ... back the bus up ... Can we clarify the sequence here?

A person is only CONVICTED of committing a crime AFTER they have been found GUILTY by a Jury (or magistrates). They are totally, absolutely and forever INNOCENT until that conviction. You are placing guilt before conviction.

And how can you possibly then say someone found 'not guilty' is still 'not innocent'? Is this some new creation of the world of social media reversal. So a man goes to trial and is found Not Guilty but is still 'not innocent'? How very very wrong you are and I hope you never have that experience.

And for good order lets just note Andrew has never been questioned, arrested, charged, put before a court, convicted let alone found Guilty of anything. He is therefore not only NOT guilty he remains therefore innocent."

By that logic Jimmy saville was innocent...

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

And Hitler

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. A person who has committed a crime cannot, by definition be innocent of that crime. They can however, be presumed innocent by others until guilt is either determined or not.

Interestingly, a person who is found Not Guilty at court is still not proved to be innocent, even though they may be actually innocent, as a court does not address innocence.

Whoaaa ... back the bus up ... Can we clarify the sequence here?

A person is only CONVICTED of committing a crime AFTER they have been found GUILTY by a Jury (or magistrates). They are totally, absolutely and forever INNOCENT until that conviction. You are placing guilt before conviction.

And how can you possibly then say someone found 'not guilty' is still 'not innocent'? Is this some new creation of the world of social media reversal. So a man goes to trial and is found Not Guilty but is still 'not innocent'? How very very wrong you are and I hope you never have that experience.

And for good order lets just note Andrew has never been questioned, arrested, charged, put before a court, convicted let alone found Guilty of anything. He is therefore not only NOT guilty he remains therefore innocent."

Also you seem to be excluding people who plead guilty with your bizarre interpretation of the law

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. A person who has committed a crime cannot, by definition be innocent of that crime. They can however, be presumed innocent by others until guilt is either determined or not.

Interestingly, a person who is found Not Guilty at court is still not proved to be innocent, even though they may be actually innocent, as a court does not address innocence.

Whoaaa ... back the bus up ... Can we clarify the sequence here?

A person is only CONVICTED of committing a crime AFTER they have been found GUILTY by a Jury (or magistrates). They are totally, absolutely and forever INNOCENT until that conviction. You are placing guilt before conviction.

And how can you possibly then say someone found 'not guilty' is still 'not innocent'? Is this some new creation of the world of social media reversal. So a man goes to trial and is found Not Guilty but is still 'not innocent'? How very very wrong you are and I hope you never have that experience.

And for good order lets just note Andrew has never been questioned, arrested, charged, put before a court, convicted let alone found Guilty of anything. He is therefore not only NOT guilty he remains therefore innocent.

Also you seem to be excluding people who plead guilty with your bizarre interpretation of the law "

It's not an interpretation of the law, just a fairly common misapplication of logic.

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

Any lawyers about? I don't understand the law

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. A person who has committed a crime cannot, by definition be innocent of that crime. They can however, be presumed innocent by others until guilt is either determined or not.

Interestingly, a person who is found Not Guilty at court is still not proved to be innocent, even though they may be actually innocent, as a court does not address innocence.

Whoaaa ... back the bus up ... Can we clarify the sequence here?

A person is only CONVICTED of committing a crime AFTER they have been found GUILTY by a Jury (or magistrates). They are totally, absolutely and forever INNOCENT until that conviction. You are placing guilt before conviction.

And how can you possibly then say someone found 'not guilty' is still 'not innocent'? Is this some new creation of the world of social media reversal. So a man goes to trial and is found Not Guilty but is still 'not innocent'? How very very wrong you are and I hope you never have that experience.

And for good order lets just note Andrew has never been questioned, arrested, charged, put before a court, convicted let alone found Guilty of anything. He is therefore not only NOT guilty he remains therefore innocent."

Also what about cases of murder suicide? The victim will be found to have been unlawfully killed at inquest but you are saying the perpetrator is not guilty because they've being convicted?

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?"

So this was the OP. Should these organisations distance themselves, I think he withdrew from some of them.

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington

I know a lot had to eat humble pie after ched Evans was found to be innocent

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I know a lot had to eat humble pie after ched Evans was found to be innocent "

It must be the pedant in me. He is innocent and was found not guilty.

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington


"I know a lot had to eat humble pie after ched Evans was found to be innocent

It must be the pedant in me. He is innocent and was found not guilty."

he won’t get the 2 years he served in prison back

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I know a lot had to eat humble pie after ched Evans was found to be innocent

It must be the pedant in me. He is innocent and was found not guilty. he won’t get the 2 years he served in prison back "

No. The judicial system is not perfect.

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington


"I know a lot had to eat humble pie after ched Evans was found to be innocent

It must be the pedant in me. He is innocent and was found not guilty. he won’t get the 2 years he served in prison back

No. The judicial system is not perfect. "

exactly and the Pitch fork brigade want to bring back hanging

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I know a lot had to eat humble pie after ched Evans was found to be innocent "

No humble pie here.

To turn up uninvited with the sole intention to fuck a girl you've never met but your mate has taken back to the room, only to he acquited in an incredibly high profile retrial after your victoms sex life is used in evidence against her and your family have offered incentives for her ex-partners to come forward and give evidence doesnt make someone innocent.

He was acquited but the evidence is there in the court documents for both trials that can be found online.

But victim blaming is rife where sex offenders are to blame. And too many men don't understand that d*unk women cant consent. Which is particularly true if you sneak in to their hotel room uninvited

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Another case is a swedish celeb called martin timell, he was also accused 20 years after but later found innocent, his carrer is destroyed as a result of it, there should be a real investigation until real evidence is put forward not hear say.

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington


"I know a lot had to eat humble pie after ched Evans was found to be innocent

No humble pie here.

To turn up uninvited with the sole intention to fuck a girl you've never met but your mate has taken back to the room, only to he acquited in an incredibly high profile retrial after your victoms sex life is used in evidence against her and your family have offered incentives for her ex-partners to come forward and give evidence doesnt make someone innocent.

He was acquited but the evidence is there in the court documents for both trials that can be found online.

But victim blaming is rife where sex offenders are to blame. And too many men don't understand that d*unk women cant consent. Which is particularly true if you sneak in to their hotel room uninvited "

I’m sure the evidence was carefully looked at during the second trial unlike the first trial and the Hubble pie comment was aimed at Jennifer Ennis hill and the rest of them in the sporting world that had there say strange not many publicly said sorry to him ( good job we don’t hang people eh)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Any lawyers about? I don't understand the law "
lol

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford


"Any lawyers about? I don't understand the law lol"

No comment...

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By *orthern StarsCouple
over a year ago

A town near you perhaps

It's a case of guilty until proved innocent these days unfortunately.

The media really doesn't help.

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington

Matthew Kelly named and shamed before he even went to trial another career ruined

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington


"It's a case of guilty until proved innocent these days unfortunately.

The media really doesn't help."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I know a lot had to eat humble pie after ched Evans was found to be innocent

No humble pie here.

To turn up uninvited with the sole intention to fuck a girl you've never met but your mate has taken back to the room, only to he acquited in an incredibly high profile retrial after your victoms sex life is used in evidence against her and your family have offered incentives for her ex-partners to come forward and give evidence doesnt make someone innocent.

He was acquited but the evidence is there in the court documents for both trials that can be found online.

But victim blaming is rife where sex offenders are to blame. And too many men don't understand that d*unk women cant consent. Which is particularly true if you sneak in to their hotel room uninvited I’m sure the evidence was carefully looked at during the second trial unlike the first trial and the Hubble pie comment was aimed at Jennifer Ennis hill and the rest of them in the sporting world that had there say strange not many publicly said sorry to him ( good job we don’t hang people eh)"

Do you think what he did was morally acceptable?

I don't see a need to apologise. I dont expect them to either. A woman's sexual history should never be used as evidence against her. It certainly shouldn't be the basis of an acquittal, which given it was the only new evidence provided it effectively was.

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"I'd love to go look at all the threads about grooming gangs in Rotherham, Tommy Robinson and trials etc, and compare with the responses on this same question.

"

Also on newspaper forums I've noticed a couple hundred muted comments yet Meghan not spending Christmas with the queen as she's spending it with her mother: thousands of nasty comments.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a case of guilty until proved innocent these days unfortunately.

The media really doesn't help."

That is right some say even the media can influence the outcome of a case.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a case of guilty until proved innocent these days unfortunately.

The media really doesn't help.That is right some say even the media can influence the outcome of a case."

the media does influence thats what they do

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"I have no sympathy for him. However there is nothing that I've seen that suggests he's guilty of anything more than being entitled and arrogant with a serious lack of judgement and empathy.

This.

It's trial by idiot.

I saw a post the other condemning him as a mid 50s bloke screwing a 17 year old girl.

FFS, he wasn't 54 at the time.

He's a paedophile!!!! No he's not. Never been charged let alone found guilty.

Did he break the law? No.

Was it morally wrong? Possibly.

Is his judgement sound? No.

Should he have distanced himself from those convicted of heinous crimes? Hell yes.

Is he a bit of a pillock? Uh huh.....

I saw a post a couple of days ago where someone suggested it would be ok if he was killed.

His crime? Being a toff.

I question people's logic, good old fashioned gumption and sanity sometimes.

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It's a case of guilty until proved innocent these days unfortunately.

The media really doesn't help.That is right some say even the media can influence the outcome of a case.the media does influence thats what they do "

That is right they do that

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By *itty9899Man
over a year ago

Craggy Island


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?"

innocent until proven guilty no such thing anymore, with social media around, as for Prince Andrew he just a pratt, more money then sense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" By that logic Jimmy saville was innocent... "

legally and in fact he was because he was never tried, convicted and therefore never found guilty of any crime.

Now I am sure you will say 'Well everyone knows ...'. well maybe they do but probably they do not but he died an innocent man in law. But in the court of public opinion ....


" Also you seem to be excluding people who plead guilty with your bizarre interpretation of the law "

Nothing 'bizarre' about it. Its a legal fact: A man / woman walks into Court innocent and then either pleads Guilty as you suggest (and is therefore convicted by confession and found guilty) or they are found guilty by a jury / magistrates or they leave as innocent as they came in.

Please explain what is in any way 'bizarre' about it?

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

innocent until proven guilty no such thing anymore, with social media around, as for Prince Andrew he just a pratt, more money then sense."

He doesn't have any money and Epstein was a billionaire: that was his problem, the love of money dulled his common sense.

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By *manaWoman
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Trial by social media.. "

Happens more than it should!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" Also what about cases of murder suicide? The victim will be found to have been unlawfully killed at inquest but you are saying the perpetrator is not guilty because they've being convicted? "

I said no such thing. Maybe before having a go read what is written. I never said someone is "not guilty because they've being convicted". that is totally misleading so maybe correct it?

For clarity the legal position is everyone is innocent until convicted (either by judgment or confession) of a crime at which point they are found guilty of that offence.

Its really quite simple so I am not sure what your angle is.

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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago

The South


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

innocent until proven guilty no such thing anymore, with social media around, as for Prince Andrew he just a pratt, more money then sense.

He doesn't have any money and Epstein was a billionaire: that was his problem, the love of money dulled his common sense. "

And now the hatred of money is trying Prince Andrew.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" By that logic Jimmy saville was innocent...

legally and in fact he was because he was never tried, convicted and therefore never found guilty of any crime.

Now I am sure you will say 'Well everyone knows ...'. well maybe they do but probably they do not but he died an innocent man in law. But in the court of public opinion ....

Also you seem to be excluding people who plead guilty with your bizarre interpretation of the law

Nothing 'bizarre' about it. Its a legal fact: A man / woman walks into Court innocent and then either pleads Guilty as you suggest (and is therefore convicted by confession and found guilty) or they are found guilty by a jury / magistrates or they leave as innocent as they came in.

Please explain what is in any way 'bizarre' about it?"

You really cant understand the difference between guilty and convicted can you?

Let's really dumb this down. Early today I did 80+mph on the motorway? Am I guilty of speeding?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" By that logic Jimmy saville was innocent...

legally and in fact he was because he was never tried, convicted and therefore never found guilty of any crime.

Now I am sure you will say 'Well everyone knows ...'. well maybe they do but probably they do not but he died an innocent man in law. But in the court of public opinion ....

Also you seem to be excluding people who plead guilty with your bizarre interpretation of the law

Nothing 'bizarre' about it. Its a legal fact: A man / woman walks into Court innocent and then either pleads Guilty as you suggest (and is therefore convicted by confession and found guilty) or they are found guilty by a jury / magistrates or they leave as innocent as they came in.

Please explain what is in any way 'bizarre' about it?"

Because it's logically inconsistent with facts. A state of guilt or innocence exists independent of the judicial system.

The legal fact is that a defendant walks into a court PRESUMED to be innocent irrespective of whether they are or not.

Are you suggesting that the wrongly convicted are actually guilty of a crime?

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

innocent until proven guilty no such thing anymore, with social media around, as for Prince Andrew he just a pratt, more money then sense.

He doesn't have any money and Epstein was a billionaire: that was his problem, the love of money dulled his common sense.

And now the hatred of money is trying Prince Andrew."

Think you're right there.

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester

It just proves that even though the royals seem to think they are untouchable legally, they really arent the brightest sparks.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

innocent until proven guilty no such thing anymore, with social media around, as for Prince Andrew he just a pratt, more money then sense.

He doesn't have any money and Epstein was a billionaire: that was his problem, the love of money dulled his common sense. "

He does have money. His official income is £250k from the queen and £20k navy pension but he’s made millions from abusing his position to broker deals between various companies or rich individuals and charging a percentage of the deal. The money is paid to him through property purchases and other high value assets. He sold a property which was valued at 7.5 million and had no sold for years until an unknown buyer paid him about 12 million for it and still it lay empty. He’s a shady character alright.

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By *onedbodMan
over a year ago

co Galway

Sur he couldn't have been with the girl in question when he was out having pizza

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" You really cant understand the difference between guilty and convicted can you?

Let's really dumb this down. Early today I did 80+mph on the motorway? Am I guilty of speeding? "

No need to patronise me Old Son. I am quite capable of arguing at any level you choose. Its not my fault you have a rather loose understanding that EVERYONE is innocent until convicted and found guilty.

As to your actions today legally (and this is what we are discussing) no you are not guilty of an offence. You were selfish, dangerous and wasting fuel and a bit of a prat but as you have not been charged and not been tried and not been convicted then today you remain an innocent man. Like Andrew is.

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester


"Sur he couldn't have been with the girl in question when he was out having pizza "

Did he give her a "Stuffed Crust"?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" You really cant understand the difference between guilty and convicted can you?

Let's really dumb this down. Early today I did 80+mph on the motorway? Am I guilty of speeding?

No need to patronise me Old Son. I am quite capable of arguing at any level you choose. Its not my fault you have a rather loose understanding that EVERYONE is innocent until convicted and found guilty.

As to your actions today legally (and this is what we are discussing) no you are not guilty of an offence. You were selfish, dangerous and wasting fuel and a bit of a prat but as you have not been charged and not been tried and not been convicted then today you remain an innocent man. Like Andrew is."

I'm not being patronising I'm trying to make you see that being convicted and being guilty are entirely different.

You keep describing what's conviction is. But apparently no one has ever done anything wrong unless a judge has said they are guilty.

So earlier today I got caught shoplifting. I accepted a caution from the police as it was my first offence. I'm not going to court. I accepted my guilt. The police proved it. But according to you I'm actually innocent? Is that right?

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester

[Removed by poster at 23/11/19 18:48:45]

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By *onedbodMan
over a year ago

co Galway


"Sur he couldn't have been with the girl in question when he was out having pizza

Did he give her a "Stuffed Crust"?"

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester


" You really cant understand the difference between guilty and convicted can you?

Let's really dumb this down. Early today I did 80+mph on the motorway? Am I guilty of speeding?

No need to patronise me Old Son. I am quite capable of arguing at any level you choose. Its not my fault you have a rather loose understanding that EVERYONE is innocent until convicted and found guilty.

As to your actions today legally (and this is what we are discussing) no you are not guilty of an offence. You were selfish, dangerous and wasting fuel and a bit of a prat but as you have not been charged and not been tried and not been convicted then today you remain an innocent man. Like Andrew is.

I'm not being patronising I'm trying to make you see that being convicted and being guilty are entirely different.

You keep describing what's conviction is. But apparently no one has ever done anything wrong unless a judge has said they are guilty.

So earlier today I got caught shoplifting. I accepted a caution from the police as it was my first offence. I'm not going to court. I accepted my guilt. The police proved it. But according to you I'm actually innocent? Is that right?

A judge doesn't say you are guilty.

A jury makes that decision and he or she passes sentence."

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester


"Sur he couldn't have been with the girl in question when he was out having pizza

Did he give her a "Stuffed Crust"? "

Did she ask for extra topping?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" You really cant understand the difference between guilty and convicted can you?

Let's really dumb this down. Early today I did 80+mph on the motorway? Am I guilty of speeding?

No need to patronise me Old Son. I am quite capable of arguing at any level you choose. Its not my fault you have a rather loose understanding that EVERYONE is innocent until convicted and found guilty.

As to your actions today legally (and this is what we are discussing) no you are not guilty of an offence. You were selfish, dangerous and wasting fuel and a bit of a prat but as you have not been charged and not been tried and not been convicted then today you remain an innocent man. Like Andrew is."

Of course he is guilty of speeding, but if he went to court he would be presumed innocent by the court until convicted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Poor Andrew

Him and man utd not been the same since fergie left.

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By *onedbodMan
over a year ago

co Galway


"Sur he couldn't have been with the girl in question when he was out having pizza

Did he give her a "Stuffed Crust"?

Did she ask for extra topping?"

Yeah lots of meat

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Sex or sexual activities with anyone underage is statutory r**e regardless of if they agreed to it.

I think statutory r*pe in the UK is sex with a child under the age of 12 years - the law presumes that someone under that age isn't mature enough to make their own decisions about such things.

I agree with you, though.

Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor is a creep.

"

It's not! Any one under the age of consent is statutory r**e, even if it's 2 consenting kids of 15, both the parents can pursue against the other child for it.

If it's someone under the age of consent & someone over it then the person over it is guilty of statutory r**e. End of!

there is no black & White line nor is it any where near 12. That's why it's called "age of consent".

The age of legal liability is 12 for other crimes or choosing if you want to live with one parent or the other. But not sex.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Whoa ......... !

Who had sex ?

There were NO children present ever from what I know.

Young women , yes, children no."

Anyone under the age of consent is classed as a child in law, even if they are 1 day under, so a 17yr old in the US is a child, Not a young woman. Their age of consent is 18 or 21 depending on which State they are in.

In the UK it's 16, except in northern Ireland where it is 17.

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford


"

Whoa ......... !

Who had sex ?

There were NO children present ever from what I know.

Young women , yes, children no.

Anyone under the age of consent is classed as a child in law, even if they are 1 day under, so a 17yr old in the US is a child, Not a young woman. Their age of consent is 18 or 21 depending on which State they are in.

In the UK it's 16, except in northern Ireland where it is 17. "

The age of consent in the states ranges from 16 to 18

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Whoa ......... !

Who had sex ?

There were NO children present ever from what I know.

Young women , yes, children no.

Anyone under the age of consent is classed as a child in law, even if they are 1 day under, so a 17yr old in the US is a child, Not a young woman. Their age of consent is 18 or 21 depending on which State they are in.

In the UK it's 16, except in northern Ireland where it is 17.

The age of consent in the states ranges from 16 to 18 "

depending on how far they are from Washington

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford


"

Whoa ......... !

Who had sex ?

There were NO children present ever from what I know.

Young women , yes, children no.

Anyone under the age of consent is classed as a child in law, even if they are 1 day under, so a 17yr old in the US is a child, Not a young woman. Their age of consent is 18 or 21 depending on which State they are in.

In the UK it's 16, except in northern Ireland where it is 17.

The age of consent in the states ranges from 16 to 18 depending on how far they are from Washington "

Maybe..

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Whoa ......... !

Who had sex ?

There were NO children present ever from what I know.

Young women , yes, children no.

Anyone under the age of consent is classed as a child in law, even if they are 1 day under, so a 17yr old in the US is a child, Not a young woman. Their age of consent is 18 or 21 depending on which State they are in.

In the UK it's 16, except in northern Ireland where it is 17.

The age of consent in the states ranges from 16 to 18 depending on how far they are from Washington

Maybe..

"

baby

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Sex or sexual activities with anyone underage is statutory r**e regardless of if they agreed to it.

I think statutory r*pe in the UK is sex with a child under the age of 12 years - the law presumes that someone under that age isn't mature enough to make their own decisions about such things.

I agree with you, though.

Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor is a creep.

It's not! Any one under the age of consent is statutory r**e, even if it's 2 consenting kids of 15, both the parents can pursue against the other child for it.

If it's someone under the age of consent & someone over it then the person over it is guilty of statutory r**e. End of!

there is no black & White line nor is it any where near 12. That's why it's called "age of consent".

The age of legal liability is 12 for other crimes or choosing if you want to live with one parent or the other. But not sex. "

You’re wrong about that I’m afraid. Statutory r@pe is where the female is 13 and under. Between 13 and 16 it is called USI.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Whoa ......... !

Who had sex ?

There were NO children present ever from what I know.

Young women , yes, children no.

Anyone under the age of consent is classed as a child in law, even if they are 1 day under, so a 17yr old in the US is a child, Not a young woman. Their age of consent is 18 or 21 depending on which State they are in.

In the UK it's 16, except in northern Ireland where it is 17.

The age of consent in the states ranges from 16 to 18 depending on how far they are from Washington

Maybe..

baby "

"So I dare you to let me be your, your one and only

I promise I'm worthy to hold in your arms

So come on and give me the chance

To prove up I'm the one who can

Walk them miles until the air starts"

- Adele

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago

bournemouth


"Did prince Andrew not make a comment about the age of consent being 16 (in the UK) & the offenses were in the US where the age is 18 in many places I believe. It sounded to me like he we trying to justify actions via ignorance.

Therefore since he is in a position of power & influence, he should be extra careful about these things especially regarding sex where this is a very big black brush to be tarred with.

Sex or sexual activities with anyone underage is statutory r**e regardless of if they agreed to it.

I teach my son these things for this very reason."

Im not defending andrew at all but I certainly didnt know the age of consent in various US states is different from here,not that I would be chasing under 20's now but maybe at 40,at a party, after a drink or two, I would have been tempted, he would have been better to have come clean

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am the law

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford


"

Whoa ......... !

Who had sex ?

There were NO children present ever from what I know.

Young women , yes, children no.

Anyone under the age of consent is classed as a child in law, even if they are 1 day under, so a 17yr old in the US is a child, Not a young woman. Their age of consent is 18 or 21 depending on which State they are in.

In the UK it's 16, except in northern Ireland where it is 17.

The age of consent in the states ranges from 16 to 18 depending on how far they are from Washington

Maybe..

baby

"So I dare you to let me be your, your one and only

I promise I'm worthy to hold in your arms

So come on and give me the chance

To prove up I'm the one who can

Walk them miles until the air starts"

- Adele"

Maybe baby...Buddy Holly..1957..

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *lack UhuruMan
over a year ago

Leeds


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?"

I doubt he'll ever be brought to trial, even if he gives up his royal title.

It's his own fault. He should have distanced himself as soon as the news broke all those years ago. If he had these organisations wouldn't be distancing themselves from him.

They have a professional reputation to keep as well and they cannot be seen to be associating with a personality that could have questions to answer about possible sexual contact with a minor.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

I doubt he'll ever be brought to trial, even if he gives up his royal title.

It's his own fault. He should have distanced himself as soon as the news broke all those years ago. If he had these organisations wouldn't be distancing themselves from him.

They have a professional reputation to keep as well and they cannot be seen to be associating with a personality that could have questions to answer about possible sexual contact with a minor."

Thank you for addressing the original post

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds


" He sold a property which was valued at 7.5 million and had no sold for years until an unknown buyer paid him about 12 million for it and still it lay empty. "

The property was a wedding present to Andrew from the Queen. It was sold at 3 million pounds above the asking price to the son of the unelected, self-appointed president of Kazakhstan.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"So he didn't know why his friend served 13 months in prison ?who knows, you don't and i don't so maybe just maybe he didn't. it would all be conjecture would it not certainly if i knew i wouldn't have associated with him and Prince Andrew is an intelligent man so surely you would think the same of him "

You're grasping at straws here lol he didn't know about the well publicised conviction of his celebrity friend?! Hmmmmmm

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford


"So he didn't know why his friend served 13 months in prison ?who knows, you don't and i don't so maybe just maybe he didn't. it would all be conjecture would it not certainly if i knew i wouldn't have associated with him and Prince Andrew is an intelligent man so surely you would think the same of him

You're grasping at straws here lol he didn't know about the well publicised conviction of his celebrity friend?! Hmmmmmm"

Yes of course he would have known and should have cut the ties then.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

in this country people in the public eye live and die by the gutter press,whether Andrew is totally innocent or not he has been convicted by the people who read the gutter press

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

Are you calling The Times, Telegraph and Guardian the gutter press ?

What about the BBC and Sky reporting it too ?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" He sold a property which was valued at 7.5 million and had no sold for years until an unknown buyer paid him about 12 million for it and still it lay empty.

The property was a wedding present to Andrew from the Queen. It was sold at 3 million pounds above the asking price to the son of the unelected, self-appointed president of Kazakhstan. "

But why would they pay 3 million above the asking price when it had been on the market for years with no interest in it. It was clearly a cloak and dagger payment. The guy who bought it didn’t even set foot in the place and it’s still laying empty now.

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds


" It was clearly a cloak and dagger payment. The guy who bought it didn’t even set foot in the place and it’s still laying empty now."

Clearly a way of gifting Andrew a vast quantity of money.

Puzzling why Fergie needed £15k from Epstein to pay off a debt when they are multimillionaires with a ski lodge worth 13 million.

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

An interview by Virginia Roberts is due to be aired next month, she recorded it 3 weeks before Prince Andrews interview..

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By *iss_tressWoman
over a year ago

London


" It was clearly a cloak and dagger payment. The guy who bought it didn’t even set foot in the place and it’s still laying empty now.

Clearly a way of gifting Andrew a vast quantity of money.

Puzzling why Fergie needed £15k from Epstein to pay off a debt when they are multimillionaires with a ski lodge worth 13 million. "

Fergie has always been in debt. I thought the ski lodge was a recent acquisition. The question is where did these two "paupers" get the money from to purchase it?

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

I doubt he'll ever be brought to trial, even if he gives up his royal title.

It's his own fault. He should have distanced himself as soon as the news broke all those years ago. If he had these organisations wouldn't be distancing themselves from him.

They have a professional reputation to keep as well and they cannot be seen to be associating with a personality that could have questions to answer about possible sexual contact with a minor."

Brought to trial for what?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

East Sussex


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

I doubt he'll ever be brought to trial, even if he gives up his royal title.

It's his own fault. He should have distanced himself as soon as the news broke all those years ago. If he had these organisations wouldn't be distancing themselves from him.

They have a professional reputation to keep as well and they cannot be seen to be associating with a personality that could have questions to answer about possible sexual contact with a minor.

Brought to trial for what?

"

,

Being royalty?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

East Sussex

Off with their heads!

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By *affron40Woman
over a year ago

manchester


"Off with their heads!"

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *layfullsamMan
over a year ago

Solihull

[Removed by poster at 24/11/19 11:47:01]

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

I still don't understand why Virginia Roberts waited for 17 years to make these allegations.

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

The Queen has cancelled his lavish 60th birthday party now, she really is punishing him!

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot


"I still don't understand why Virginia Roberts waited for 17 years to make these allegations."

Some showed her a few Benjamins?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

I doubt he'll ever be brought to trial, even if he gives up his royal title.

It's his own fault. He should have distanced himself as soon as the news broke all those years ago. If he had these organisations wouldn't be distancing themselves from him.

They have a professional reputation to keep as well and they cannot be seen to be associating with a personality that could have questions to answer about possible sexual contact with a minor.

Brought to trial for what?

,

Being royalty?"

Mental isn't it.......

I'll wait and see what crime the OP feels has been committed.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford


"I still don't understand why Virginia Roberts waited for 17 years to make these allegations.

Some showed her a few Benjamins? "

What is that..money?

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By *ooskiMan
over a year ago

south coast

Lol im sure if we look at all these persecuting him arent all Angels themselves and probably have friends or relatives that might not be whiter than white.

Karma will catch up.....always does

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?"

Isn’t it the norm today ? Witch hunting , hang everyone then ask questions after . Seems the world is full of negativity people jumping on the band wagon , jumping on the blame train , believing everything on social media & tabloids . No wonder majority of people are screwed up . Just my opinion I might add

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

East Sussex


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

I doubt he'll ever be brought to trial, even if he gives up his royal title.

It's his own fault. He should have distanced himself as soon as the news broke all those years ago. If he had these organisations wouldn't be distancing themselves from him.

They have a professional reputation to keep as well and they cannot be seen to be associating with a personality that could have questions to answer about possible sexual contact with a minor.

Brought to trial for what?

,

Being royalty?

Mental isn't it.......

I'll wait and see what crime the OP feels has been committed."

I think the op was designed to provoke this discussion.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

East Sussex


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

Isn’t it the norm today ? Witch hunting , hang everyone then ask questions after . Seems the world is full of negativity people jumping on the band wagon , jumping on the blame train , believing everything on social media & tabloids . No wonder majority of people are screwed up . Just my opinion I might add "

It's always been the norm.

If he'd given an interview in which he'd shed a tear for the victims, said he'd been really stupid and rent his garments and torn his hair I suspect public opinion might have been different. But he didn't. He's guilty of appearing to think he was better than us and people don't like that

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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago

Paisley

Andrew represents the Royal family and the UK. He’s not just some random guy associating with the wrong people. He was an ambassador for our country and should’ve behaved better. He should’ve stayed well away from Epstein and his parties, not taken flights on the Lolita Express and should’ve shown some remorse for his actions.

No, in this case he’s far from innocent and deserves everything he gets. Just a shame his daughter’s wedding is now being downgraded to a quiet occasion and no doubt there are many more repercussions to come.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

Isn’t it the norm today ? Witch hunting , hang everyone then ask questions after . Seems the world is full of negativity people jumping on the band wagon , jumping on the blame train , believing everything on social media & tabloids . No wonder majority of people are screwed up . Just my opinion I might add

It's always been the norm.

If he'd given an interview in which he'd shed a tear for the victims, said he'd been really stupid and rent his garments and torn his hair I suspect public opinion might have been different. But he didn't. He's guilty of appearing to think he was better than us and people don't like that "

And this is the point I made earlier, it's not the rumours or association that has had the negative impact it's the unbelievably bad interview that showed zero remorse, zero compassion and saw him laugh and lie his way through it. The arrogance of that and the complete lack of self awareness is what has seen his incredibly quick fall from grace

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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago

Paisley


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

Isn’t it the norm today ? Witch hunting , hang everyone then ask questions after . Seems the world is full of negativity people jumping on the band wagon , jumping on the blame train , believing everything on social media & tabloids . No wonder majority of people are screwed up . Just my opinion I might add

It's always been the norm.

If he'd given an interview in which he'd shed a tear for the victims, said he'd been really stupid and rent his garments and torn his hair I suspect public opinion might have been different. But he didn't. He's guilty of appearing to think he was better than us and people don't like that

And this is the point I made earlier, it's not the rumours or association that has had the negative impact it's the unbelievably bad interview that showed zero remorse, zero compassion and saw him laugh and lie his way through it. The arrogance of that and the complete lack of self awareness is what has seen his incredibly quick fall from grace"

And he thought it was ok to fly to Bahrain for a few days!

The man has no moral compass!

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

East Sussex


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

Isn’t it the norm today ? Witch hunting , hang everyone then ask questions after . Seems the world is full of negativity people jumping on the band wagon , jumping on the blame train , believing everything on social media & tabloids . No wonder majority of people are screwed up . Just my opinion I might add

It's always been the norm.

If he'd given an interview in which he'd shed a tear for the victims, said he'd been really stupid and rent his garments and torn his hair I suspect public opinion might have been different. But he didn't. He's guilty of appearing to think he was better than us and people don't like that

And this is the point I made earlier, it's not the rumours or association that has had the negative impact it's the unbelievably bad interview that showed zero remorse, zero compassion and saw him laugh and lie his way through it. The arrogance of that and the complete lack of self awareness is what has seen his incredibly quick fall from grace

And he thought it was ok to fly to Bahrain for a few days!

The man has no moral compass! "

None of this is a criminal offence though.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

Isn’t it the norm today ? Witch hunting , hang everyone then ask questions after . Seems the world is full of negativity people jumping on the band wagon , jumping on the blame train , believing everything on social media & tabloids . No wonder majority of people are screwed up . Just my opinion I might add

It's always been the norm.

If he'd given an interview in which he'd shed a tear for the victims, said he'd been really stupid and rent his garments and torn his hair I suspect public opinion might have been different. But he didn't. He's guilty of appearing to think he was better than us and people don't like that

And this is the point I made earlier, it's not the rumours or association that has had the negative impact it's the unbelievably bad interview that showed zero remorse, zero compassion and saw him laugh and lie his way through it. The arrogance of that and the complete lack of self awareness is what has seen his incredibly quick fall from grace

And he thought it was ok to fly to Bahrain for a few days!

The man has no moral compass!

None of this is a criminal offence though. "

No but those people distancing themselves arent calling for him to be arrested are they. They are just realising he is toxic

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod

over a year ago

East Sussex


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

Isn’t it the norm today ? Witch hunting , hang everyone then ask questions after . Seems the world is full of negativity people jumping on the band wagon , jumping on the blame train , believing everything on social media & tabloids . No wonder majority of people are screwed up . Just my opinion I might add

It's always been the norm.

If he'd given an interview in which he'd shed a tear for the victims, said he'd been really stupid and rent his garments and torn his hair I suspect public opinion might have been different. But he didn't. He's guilty of appearing to think he was better than us and people don't like that

And this is the point I made earlier, it's not the rumours or association that has had the negative impact it's the unbelievably bad interview that showed zero remorse, zero compassion and saw him laugh and lie his way through it. The arrogance of that and the complete lack of self awareness is what has seen his incredibly quick fall from grace

And he thought it was ok to fly to Bahrain for a few days!

The man has no moral compass!

None of this is a criminal offence though.

No but those people distancing themselves arent calling for him to be arrested are they. They are just realising he is toxic"

Yes, I see your point.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

Isn’t it the norm today ? Witch hunting , hang everyone then ask questions after . Seems the world is full of negativity people jumping on the band wagon , jumping on the blame train , believing everything on social media & tabloids . No wonder majority of people are screwed up . Just my opinion I might add

It's always been the norm.

If he'd given an interview in which he'd shed a tear for the victims, said he'd been really stupid and rent his garments and torn his hair I suspect public opinion might have been different. But he didn't. He's guilty of appearing to think he was better than us and people don't like that

And this is the point I made earlier, it's not the rumours or association that has had the negative impact it's the unbelievably bad interview that showed zero remorse, zero compassion and saw him laugh and lie his way through it. The arrogance of that and the complete lack of self awareness is what has seen his incredibly quick fall from grace

And he thought it was ok to fly to Bahrain for a few days!

The man has no moral compass! "

Nothing he's done is a criminal offence though.

If 98% of the posters on this thread would kindly recluse themselves from jury duty.....

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Sex or sexual activities with anyone underage is statutory r**e regardless of if they agreed to it.

I think statutory r*pe in the UK is sex with a child under the age of 12 years - the law presumes that someone under that age isn't mature enough to make their own decisions about such things.

I agree with you, though.

Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor is a creep.

It's not! Any one under the age of consent is statutory r**e, even if it's 2 consenting kids of 15, both the parents can pursue against the other child for it.

If it's someone under the age of consent & someone over it then the person over it is guilty of statutory r**e. End of!

there is no black & White line nor is it any where near 12. That's why it's called "age of consent".

The age of legal liability is 12 for other crimes or choosing if you want to live with one parent or the other. But not sex.

You’re wrong about that I’m afraid. Statutory r@pe is where the female is 13 and under. Between 13 and 16 it is called USI. "

Okay some states are as low as 16 as it is here.

Usi stands for?

And no your certainly wrong, regardless of the name, it's illegal for an adult to have sexual contact/intercourse with someone under the age of consent, and that can apply to 2 underage kids, although 2 undershirts is often not prosecuted it can be if the parents pursue it.

A young woman is over 18, since woman means adult. Stop calling 17's & under young women they're not allowed to drink alcohol so why would any adult think that they should have sex with them.

You'd do well to read this: http://www.fpa.org.uk/factsheets/law-on-sex

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.upworthy.com/amp/sexual-assault-rape-children

It's up to adults to make sure they are within the law in any country, not the child so best to ask for id, if they can't provide it, don't do it. Simple.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Sex or sexual activities with anyone underage is statutory r**e regardless of if they agreed to it.

I think statutory r*pe in the UK is sex with a child under the age of 12 years - the law presumes that someone under that age isn't mature enough to make their own decisions about such things.

I agree with you, though.

Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor is a creep.

It's not! Any one under the age of consent is statutory r**e, even if it's 2 consenting kids of 15, both the parents can pursue against the other child for it.

If it's someone under the age of consent & someone over it then the person over it is guilty of statutory r**e. End of!

there is no black & White line nor is it any where near 12. That's why it's called "age of consent".

The age of legal liability is 12 for other crimes or choosing if you want to live with one parent or the other. But not sex.

You’re wrong about that I’m afraid. Statutory r@pe is where the female is 13 and under. Between 13 and 16 it is called USI.

Okay some states are as low as 16 as it is here.

Usi stands for?

And no your certainly wrong, regardless of the name, it's illegal for an adult to have sexual contact/intercourse with someone under the age of consent, and that can apply to 2 underage kids, although 2 undershirts is often not prosecuted it can be if the parents pursue it.

A young woman is over 18, since woman means adult. Stop calling 17's & under young women they're not allowed to drink alcohol so why would any adult think that they should have sex with them.

You'd do well to read this: http://www.fpa.org.uk/factsheets/law-on-sex

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.upworthy.com/amp/sexual-assault-rape-children

It's up to adults to make sure they are within the law in any country, not the child so best to ask for id, if they can't provide it, don't do it. Simple. "

Statutory r@pe and under @ge sex are two different things. The latter applies to 14-16 year olds the former is 13 and under. USI stands for under @ge sexual intercourse and in most cases no prosecution takes place as long as it’s consensual and there are no other factors, such as grooming involved. Doesn’t make it right but that the law.

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By *eoeclipseWoman
over a year ago

glasgow


"

Sex or sexual activities with anyone underage is statutory r**e regardless of if they agreed to it.

I think statutory r*pe in the UK is sex with a child under the age of 12 years - the law presumes that someone under that age isn't mature enough to make their own decisions about such things.

I agree with you, though.

Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor is a creep.

It's not! Any one under the age of consent is statutory r**e, even if it's 2 consenting kids of 15, both the parents can pursue against the other child for it.

If it's someone under the age of consent & someone over it then the person over it is guilty of statutory r**e. End of!

there is no black & White line nor is it any where near 12. That's why it's called "age of consent".

The age of legal liability is 12 for other crimes or choosing if you want to live with one parent or the other. But not sex.

You’re wrong about that I’m afraid. Statutory r@pe is where the female is 13 and under. Between 13 and 16 it is called USI.

Okay some states are as low as 16 as it is here.

Usi stands for?

And no your certainly wrong, regardless of the name, it's illegal for an adult to have sexual contact/intercourse with someone under the age of consent, and that can apply to 2 underage kids, although 2 undershirts is often not prosecuted it can be if the parents pursue it.

A young woman is over 18, since woman means adult. Stop calling 17's & under young women they're not allowed to drink alcohol so why would any adult think that they should have sex with them.

You'd do well to read this: http://www.fpa.org.uk/factsheets/law-on-sex

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.upworthy.com/amp/sexual-assault-rape-children

It's up to adults to make sure they are within the law in any country, not the child so best to ask for id, if they can't provide it, don't do it. Simple.

Statutory r@pe and under @ge sex are two different things. The latter applies to 14-16 year olds the former is 13 and under. USI stands for under @ge sexual intercourse and in most cases no prosecution takes place as long as it’s consensual and there are no other factors, such as grooming involved. Doesn’t make it right but that the law. "

Not when one is an adult! You would be prosecuted for it regardless of if grooming was involved or not! & to be honest any adult pursuing someone under age is grooming them.

Your sounding as if it's something you think is okay to do. When it's definitely not & is illegal. You'll not get out of it in law. There no grey area there.

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot

Have actually discovered what he's guilty of yet?

I mean an actual criminal offence of course.

My hands been on this lever all day and I'm getting cramp....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Have actually discovered what he's guilty of yet?

I mean an actual criminal offence of course.

My hands been on this lever all day and I'm getting cramp....

"

Funny , just let go & say “oops” and ask questions after

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Sex or sexual activities with anyone underage is statutory r**e regardless of if they agreed to it.

I think statutory r*pe in the UK is sex with a child under the age of 12 years - the law presumes that someone under that age isn't mature enough to make their own decisions about such things.

I agree with you, though.

Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor is a creep.

It's not! Any one under the age of consent is statutory r**e, even if it's 2 consenting kids of 15, both the parents can pursue against the other child for it.

If it's someone under the age of consent & someone over it then the person over it is guilty of statutory r**e. End of!

there is no black & White line nor is it any where near 12. That's why it's called "age of consent".

The age of legal liability is 12 for other crimes or choosing if you want to live with one parent or the other. But not sex.

You’re wrong about that I’m afraid. Statutory r@pe is where the female is 13 and under. Between 13 and 16 it is called USI.

Okay some states are as low as 16 as it is here.

Usi stands for?

And no your certainly wrong, regardless of the name, it's illegal for an adult to have sexual contact/intercourse with someone under the age of consent, and that can apply to 2 underage kids, although 2 undershirts is often not prosecuted it can be if the parents pursue it.

A young woman is over 18, since woman means adult. Stop calling 17's & under young women they're not allowed to drink alcohol so why would any adult think that they should have sex with them.

You'd do well to read this: http://www.fpa.org.uk/factsheets/law-on-sex

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.upworthy.com/amp/sexual-assault-rape-children

It's up to adults to make sure they are within the law in any country, not the child so best to ask for id, if they can't provide it, don't do it. Simple.

Statutory r@pe and under @ge sex are two different things. The latter applies to 14-16 year olds the former is 13 and under. USI stands for under @ge sexual intercourse and in most cases no prosecution takes place as long as it’s consensual and there are no other factors, such as grooming involved. Doesn’t make it right but that the law.

Not when one is an adult! You would be prosecuted for it regardless of if grooming was involved or not! & to be honest any adult pursuing someone under age is grooming them.

Your sounding as if it's something you think is okay to do. When it's definitely not & is illegal. You'll not get out of it in law. There no grey area there. "

Oh behave yourself! I’m pointing out the differences between the two offences which is quite clear in my posts. And no, just because one side is of adult age doesn’t mean an automatic prosecution. You don’t know much about the law or how it’s enforced so stop making out that you do and stop trying make others look like they are condoning abuse of children because they are not and I certainly am not.

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By *lack UhuruMan
over a year ago

Leeds


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

I doubt he'll ever be brought to trial, even if he gives up his royal title.

It's his own fault. He should have distanced himself as soon as the news broke all those years ago. If he had these organisations wouldn't be distancing themselves from him.

They have a professional reputation to keep as well and they cannot be seen to be associating with a personality that could have questions to answer about possible sexual contact with a minor.

Brought to trial for what?

"

Read the original question.

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By *lack UhuruMan
over a year ago

Leeds


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

I doubt he'll ever be brought to trial, even if he gives up his royal title.

It's his own fault. He should have distanced himself as soon as the news broke all those years ago. If he had these organisations wouldn't be distancing themselves from him.

They have a professional reputation to keep as well and they cannot be seen to be associating with a personality that could have questions to answer about possible sexual contact with a minor.

Brought to trial for what?

,

Being royalty?"

For having sex with a minor. The age of consent is 18 in America.

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

I doubt he'll ever be brought to trial, even if he gives up his royal title.

It's his own fault. He should have distanced himself as soon as the news broke all those years ago. If he had these organisations wouldn't be distancing themselves from him.

They have a professional reputation to keep as well and they cannot be seen to be associating with a personality that could have questions to answer about possible sexual contact with a minor.

Brought to trial for what?

,

Being royalty?

For having sex with a minor. The age of consent is 18 in America."

It does depend on the state, 16 to 18.

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By *voryforebonyMan
over a year ago

boogie town


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?"

Just being pedantic here and not expressing any comment reference the Prince Andrew case but it's

'Presumed' innocent until proven guilty in UK law.

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

I doubt he'll ever be brought to trial, even if he gives up his royal title.

It's his own fault. He should have distanced himself as soon as the news broke all those years ago. If he had these organisations wouldn't be distancing themselves from him.

They have a professional reputation to keep as well and they cannot be seen to be associating with a personality that could have questions to answer about possible sexual contact with a minor.

Brought to trial for what?

Read the original question. "

I'm asking for an answer to this comment;

"I doubt he'll ever be brought to trial, even if he gives up his royal title."

Read the post.

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By *tingly ByronMan
over a year ago

In a town Fab forgot


"It seems lots of organisations are distancing themselves from Prince Andrew including charities and orchestras etc.

Should this happen or should they use the innocent until proven guilty concept?

I doubt he'll ever be brought to trial, even if he gives up his royal title.

It's his own fault. He should have distanced himself as soon as the news broke all those years ago. If he had these organisations wouldn't be distancing themselves from him.

They have a professional reputation to keep as well and they cannot be seen to be associating with a personality that could have questions to answer about possible sexual contact with a minor.

Brought to trial for what?

,

Being royalty?

For having sex with a minor. The age of consent is 18 in America."

Depends what state they were in.

Fuck all like getting your facts right is there?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"An interview by Virginia Roberts is due to be aired next month, she recorded it 3 weeks before Prince Andrews interview.."

The only possible explanation I could think for anyone agreeing to do an interview like that was because he knew there was some serious shit coming down the track and he wanted to get on the front foot before it hit.

I wonder if this is it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bottom line is his trade is being a celebrity, therefore he is only valuable as long as that status is popular.

Guilt or innocence is not a required element in the calculation.

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford


"An interview by Virginia Roberts is due to be aired next month, she recorded it 3 weeks before Prince Andrews interview..

The only possible explanation I could think for anyone agreeing to do an interview like that was because he knew there was some serious shit coming down the track and he wanted to get on the front foot before it hit.

I wonder if this is it?

"

maybe...

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford


"Bottom line is his trade is being a celebrity, therefore he is only valuable as long as that status is popular.

Guilt or innocence is not a required element in the calculation. "

Have to agree..

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By *he Ring WraithMan
over a year ago

Bradford


"I have no sympathy for him. However there is nothing that I've seen that suggests he's guilty of anything more than being entitled and arrogant with a serious lack of judgement and empathy.

"

Totally this in my opinion ! but I am not a royalist by any stretch of anyones imagination.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Organisations want to be associated with relevant people. His public reputation is at an all time low and his mum has sacked him as a royal. He's bowing out of public life mostly, which will give him time to focus on the many women who were trafficked by his long time friend. His reputation is dire because he's shown arrogance and self interest but no empathy or care towards women who had their lives ruined. It really isn't that he's been judged as guilty without a trial, though I'm sure some have done.

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By *unshine05Man
over a year ago

Sherborne

even if he isn't hes a royal he will get away with it

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