Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to The Lounge |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? " Lot's of topics could be considered a blame game. If the someone in the government don't think they're accountable as part of poverty they should consider a new job. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? " It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. "  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. " It’s really not, many many different factors  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. "He is not wrong! However it is part of the governments job to make sure thst finding ways to do so are available, in addition to controlling other parts of the budget which I. Turn is a knock on effect. So while they are not the sole cause, they are a large part of it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. " , Not solely. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? " She would like to blame poverty on, er, um, poor people. Said while visiting a food bank, too. Her friends at the local golf club probably agree with her. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. "  not really.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I know of people who live in what I would say is poverty, but they bunked off school and spent most of their 20's either getting sacked from jobs or just not bothering to work or having any desire to better themselves, is that the governments fault?" In those cases no. But again the government sets the standard so to speak. From that it is what individuals do if the opportunity is there. Currently the opportunity is low and rare so that even hard working people are seeing themselves go in to poverty. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I know of people who live in what I would say is poverty, but they bunked off school and spent most of their 20's either getting sacked from jobs or just not bothering to work or having any desire to better themselves, is that the governments fault?" No but poverty is caused by many factors. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I know of people who live in what I would say is poverty, but they bunked off school and spent most of their 20's either getting sacked from jobs or just not bothering to work or having any desire to better themselves, is that the governments fault? In those cases no. But again the government sets the standard so to speak. From that it is what individuals do if the opportunity is there. Currently the opportunity is low and rare so that even hard working people are seeing themselves go in to poverty. " I don't think poverty is widely understood. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I know of people who live in what I would say is poverty, but they bunked off school and spent most of their 20's either getting sacked from jobs or just not bothering to work or having any desire to better themselves, is that the governments fault? In those cases no. But again the government sets the standard so to speak. From that it is what individuals do if the opportunity is there. Currently the opportunity is low and rare so that even hard working people are seeing themselves go in to poverty. I don't think poverty is widely understood. " Can you explain please ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. " How dare you suggest that people should earn money. Silliest thing I've ever heard. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I know of people who live in what I would say is poverty, but they bunked off school and spent most of their 20's either getting sacked from jobs or just not bothering to work or having any desire to better themselves, is that the governments fault? In those cases no. But again the government sets the standard so to speak. From that it is what individuals do if the opportunity is there. Currently the opportunity is low and rare so that even hard working people are seeing themselves go in to poverty. I don't think poverty is widely understood. Can you explain please ?" I mean the causes of it and how people who least expect it can find themselves living hand to mouth. I think there's a tendency to believe that anyone living in poverty is doing so as it's their own fault. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I know of people who live in what I would say is poverty, but they bunked off school and spent most of their 20's either getting sacked from jobs or just not bothering to work or having any desire to better themselves, is that the governments fault? In those cases no. But again the government sets the standard so to speak. From that it is what individuals do if the opportunity is there. Currently the opportunity is low and rare so that even hard working people are seeing themselves go in to poverty. I don't think poverty is widely understood. Can you explain please ?" Poverty is not just about being poor. It is not having enough money for basic things. Food, water, shelter. You can have a job but if you are not earning enough for all of those things you are living in poverty. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I know of people who live in what I would say is poverty, but they bunked off school and spent most of their 20's either getting sacked from jobs or just not bothering to work or having any desire to better themselves, is that the governments fault? In those cases no. But again the government sets the standard so to speak. From that it is what individuals do if the opportunity is there. Currently the opportunity is low and rare so that even hard working people are seeing themselves go in to poverty. I don't think poverty is widely understood. Can you explain please ? I mean the causes of it and how people who least expect it can find themselves living hand to mouth. I think there's a tendency to believe that anyone living in poverty is doing so as it's their own fault. " Thank you  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? She would like to blame poverty on, er, um, poor people. Said while visiting a food bank, too. Her friends at the local golf club probably agree with her. " . Many people use food banks now a days not just the unemployed.Pensioners as well as people working whi are struggling to put a meal on the table.The price of gas and electric means people are having think twice with regards to putting on the heating especially the pensioners | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I grew up in poverty, it wasn't either of my parents fault they both worked damn hard. But I grew up in a house without central heating so the windows froze on the inside. Getting a pair of school shoes was an issue, or putting food on a plate. Relatives would have to buy a winter coat as a Christmas present as my parents couldn't afford one. So they did their best under the circumstances they had. And there were many like us in my area, the pits were closed without thought of what the workers would do and the supermarkets and quotas drove farmers to the brink so they had to throw milk down drains. A lot of the poverty I have seen has been brought about my government policies"
Nobody had central heating.. the chairs faced the fire and not the TV | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I grew up in poverty, it wasn't either of my parents fault they both worked damn hard. But I grew up in a house without central heating so the windows froze on the inside. Getting a pair of school shoes was an issue, or putting food on a plate. Relatives would have to buy a winter coat as a Christmas present as my parents couldn't afford one. So they did their best under the circumstances they had. And there were many like us in my area, the pits were closed without thought of what the workers would do and the supermarkets and quotas drove farmers to the brink so they had to throw milk down drains. A lot of the poverty I have seen has been brought about my government policies
Nobody had central heating.. the chairs faced the fire and not the TV"Exactly, we had a Rayburn as our heat source, water heating and for cooking, when that was out of action it was tough as | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. " So you work hard... long and hard. At the the end of the month the bills are more or less equal if not are higher than your wages. You've cut your cloth accordingly but can't make ends meet. Surely anyone working hard no matter the job should at least be able to keep their head above water. Not slowly drown in a pool of debt. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I grew up in poverty, it wasn't either of my parents fault they both worked damn hard. But I grew up in a house without central heating so the windows froze on the inside. Getting a pair of school shoes was an issue, or putting food on a plate. Relatives would have to buy a winter coat as a Christmas present as my parents couldn't afford one. So they did their best under the circumstances they had. And there were many like us in my area, the pits were closed without thought of what the workers would do and the supermarkets and quotas drove farmers to the brink so they had to throw milk down drains. A lot of the poverty I have seen has been brought about my government policies
Nobody had central heating.. the chairs faced the fire and not the TV
Exactly, we had a Rayburn as our heat source, water heating and for cooking, when that was out of action it was tough as"We had a Rayburn. Fire behind glass.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. So you work hard... long and hard. At the the end of the month the bills are more or less equal if not are higher than your wages. You've cut your cloth accordingly but can't make ends meet. Surely anyone working hard no matter the job should at least be able to keep their head above water. Not slowly drown in a pool of debt." Exactly. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To be honest.. as a kid I lived in poverty but was bloody happy.. coats on the eiderdown in the winter.. cozy and warm..." I think a lot of us experienced that sort of thing growing up. I doubt it was quite the same for our parents, it must have been a huge worry | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To be honest.. as a kid I lived in poverty but was bloody happy.. coats on the eiderdown in the winter.. cozy and warm..." Haha bits of if I loved, still have to use blankets with a duvet in winter else it's not cwtchy enough | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? " Poverty has always existed but a government's policies can certainly make this problem far worse. Thirty years of successive tory and labour governments have made sure that current and future generations will be worse off than the post war ones were. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. " Exactly! All those nurses claiming universal credit to make ends meet after years of frozen pay. Those teachers taking yearly pay cuts instead of raises. All a bunch of lazy arseholes who just spent years in uni fucking on. They deserve poverty because theyre clearly not capable of earning money. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. Exactly! All those nurses claiming universal credit to make ends meet after years of frozen pay. Those teachers taking yearly pay cuts instead of raises. All a bunch of lazy arseholes who just spent years in uni fucking on. They deserve poverty because theyre clearly not capable of earning money. " Thinking about it at the most basic dic level it is about your ability to earn money. The factors that influence your ability to earn aren't as simple though. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. So you work hard... long and hard. At the the end of the month the bills are more or less equal if not are higher than your wages. You've cut your cloth accordingly but can't make ends meet. Surely anyone working hard no matter the job should at least be able to keep their head above water. Not slowly drown in a pool of debt." | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I am all for freedom of speech .. but that works both ways too of course ! can you believe what this idiot wrote? .. can anyone suggest which political party they might vote for ? all Im kind of hoping for is they were being sarcastic .. because if not I would not want to be them meeting me in a pub ! Disgusting yay it was sarcasm .. I now have a nice warm glow again .. 
" | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. It’s really not, many many different factors "There are no other factors. If you earn your own money you won’t be in poverty. Sadly a lot don’t have the ability to be able to do that. Never said it was easy but that’s how it is in a nut shelf. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? " of course the average wage in the UK 2019 is £29,000 how many people do you know men and women on the average wage? not many i bet say your mortgage is £1500 per month as most are thats £18,000 of your salary gone in one foul swoop, £5,000 to run a car for a year youre basically living on £5/6,000 pa if you lose your job and you are the soul wage earner youre completely overwhelmed with debt at the get go so many young couples end up homeless, the influx of cheap labour from abroad eastern Europe for example has put many out of work, so that can be apportioned to governmental decisions and many arent even attaining the average wage   | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. It’s really not, many many different factors
There are no other factors. If you earn your own money you won’t be in poverty. Sadly a lot don’t have the ability to be able to do that. Never said it was easy but that’s how it is in a nut shelf. "The majority of people in poverty are actually in ‘in work’ poverty so it’s not as black n white as you believe Education, health, housing, childcare, postcode, government, upbringing. They all link together. for eg. A Child in poverty who may not be able to attend school daily due to themselves being in poverty, no food to concentrate, no clean clothes, look after younger siblings, this can have a detrimental affect on what employment options they will have in later life Remember; the best choice we make in life when we are born is who our parents are | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Ugly Patel ,apart from being abysmally thick , has an arse the size of an African elephant , looks like she's talking out of it the amount of crap that streams . You tube the daft uncle Tom "debating " hanging with Ian Hislop .(Question Time )... Gawd , give me strength " Not sure that helpful | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Don't get me started on this! You can't compare poverty in the UK to war torn or corrupt countries! Poverty in the UK is where they can't afford their cans of cider or because they choose to buy said cider instead of feed their kids! Not directed at you OP (much love) " No it isn't. There was over 14 million people living in poverty last year. Working age, kids, pensioners. And it's arguably affecting working families / people more than it ever has before. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? She would like to blame poverty on, er, um, poor people. Said while visiting a food bank, too. Her friends at the local golf club probably agree with her. " And those friends of hers in the tobacco and arms industries. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I’m not sure how all the fingers can be pointed in one direction, surely the main direction should be right back at the individual !!" I know people who work hard in menial jobs. It's a trap. They cant further themselves educationally due to funding and time. The Bill's need paying, they dont get breaks. The cycle continues. Theres many people in positions with no concept of others lives. You're not obliged to care, but one day something may change in your life and will you quietly accept your lot? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Don't get me started on this! You can't compare poverty in the UK to war torn or corrupt countries! Poverty in the UK is where they can't afford their cans of cider or because they choose to buy said cider instead of feed their kids! Not directed at you OP (much love) " Many can't afford to feed their kids. Unless theyy turn thee heating off. I see it all the time. And no their parents aren't abusing drugs or alcohol. It's down to welfare cuts and most council central funding budgets being cut by 20-45% (which are given to them by central government) since 2010. Which is when Priti's party began austerity. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I’m not sure how all the fingers can be pointed in one direction, surely the main direction should be right back at the individual !!" You clearly have never had to struggle financially. I am incredibly fortunate to not have to worry about money these days but that hasn't always been the case. I have always worked but becoming a single parent of a small child and paying a mortgage on a salary of £11,000 was challenging to say the least. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interestingly, and I am not saying I interpret it correctly, she seems to say it's not central government but local authority should take some responsibility. Mixed messages. " But where do local councils get their budget from- oh yes, the Government. And this lot like to play games, such as cutting the budgets for Labour run councils more than Tory run councils, so they can blame the whole party as being a failure. Theres a lot of problems in all the main parties, but the Tories are somewhere between delusional and sociopathic if they think many of the problems we have are not their doing | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I will probably get banned for posting this one. I don't care. tory "rulers " (note lower case ) , DESPISE ,the working poor, the sick & needy. They need to rename themselves , "the slow genocide élite".. " Wrong. Tell me, who got us into this? Who left a note saying the country was broke because they had spent all the money? And did it help us spending all that money? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I’m not sure how all the fingers can be pointed in one direction, surely the main direction should be right back at the individual !! I know people who work hard in menial jobs. It's a trap. They cant further themselves educationally due to funding and time. The Bill's need paying, they dont get breaks. The cycle continues. Theres many people in positions with no concept of others lives. You're not obliged to care, but one day something may change in your life and will you quietly accept your lot?" I was shovelling pig shit for a living 16 years ago, rubbish pay and no prospects other than working there for years and possibly becoming a manager eventually. I enrolled in night school, got myself some different qualifications and moved on as soon as I could. I've worked my way up to being on decent money now in a completely different industry as well as joining the reserves for even more free qualifications and experience. You just have to push yourself if you want it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I’m not sure how all the fingers can be pointed in one direction, surely the main direction should be right back at the individual !! I know people who work hard in menial jobs. It's a trap. They cant further themselves educationally due to funding and time. The Bill's need paying, they dont get breaks. The cycle continues. Theres many people in positions with no concept of others lives. You're not obliged to care, but one day something may change in your life and will you quietly accept your lot?" | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I’m not sure how all the fingers can be pointed in one direction, surely the main direction should be right back at the individual !! I know people who work hard in menial jobs. It's a trap. They cant further themselves educationally due to funding and time. The Bill's need paying, they dont get breaks. The cycle continues. Theres many people in positions with no concept of others lives. You're not obliged to care, but one day something may change in your life and will you quietly accept your lot? " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I will probably get banned for posting this one. I don't care. tory "rulers " (note lower case ) , DESPISE ,the working poor, the sick & needy. They need to rename themselves , "the slow genocide élite".. Wrong. Tell me, who got us into this? Who left a note saying the country was broke because they had spent all the money? And did it help us spending all that money? " The "Gordon Brown started a global financial crisis by frivolous government spending" argument? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think social media could be partly to blame. It's easy for people to see now what others have material-wise. Some are drawn into the fact they have to keep up with the neighbours or 'Jones' (to use a well-worn phrase). Having the latest, the flashiest, the fastest, the trendiest etc seems to be the be all and end all of some peoples lives." We were discussing exactly that today. Getting into debt to appear happy and well off. Nuts. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I will probably get banned for posting this one. I don't care. tory "rulers " (note lower case ) , DESPISE ,the working poor, the sick & needy. They need to rename themselves , "the slow genocide élite".. Wrong. Tell me, who got us into this? Who left a note saying the country was broke because they had spent all the money? And did it help us spending all that money? The "Gordon Brown started a global financial crisis by frivolous government spending" argument? " The prudent chancellor... Not | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I will probably get banned for posting this one. I don't care. tory "rulers " (note lower case ) , DESPISE ,the working poor, the sick & needy. They need to rename themselves , "the slow genocide élite".. Wrong. Tell me, who got us into this? Who left a note saying the country was broke because they had spent all the money? And did it help us spending all that money? The "Gordon Brown started a global financial crisis by frivolous government spending" argument? The prudent chancellor... Not" Are you takimg about the bank bailout? What would you have done instead? Paying off the debts to the USA? Or do you think welfare spending caused all the money to disappear? Do you think anyone is that daft? A global financial crisis stole all the money purely based on greed. You wanna blame the poor for that? Demonising the poor and blaming the previous administration for a decade of this administration's cuts just doesn't sit right with me. Sorry fella. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I will probably get banned for posting this one. I don't care. tory "rulers " (note lower case ) , DESPISE ,the working poor, the sick & needy. They need to rename themselves , "the slow genocide élite".. Wrong. Tell me, who got us into this? Who left a note saying the country was broke because they had spent all the money? And did it help us spending all that money? The "Gordon Brown started a global financial crisis by frivolous government spending" argument? The prudent chancellor... Not Are you takimg about the bank bailout? What would you have done instead? Paying off the debts to the USA? Or do you think welfare spending caused all the money to disappear? Do you think anyone is that daft? A global financial crisis stole all the money purely based on greed. You wanna blame the poor for that? Demonising the poor and blaming the previous administration for a decade of this administration's cuts just doesn't sit right with me. Sorry fella. " When we were awash with North sea oil money he pissed it all down the river, robbed pension funds and was an aweful PM.. That bigoted woman.. He was a twat.. his ambition outstripped his ability.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I will probably get banned for posting this one. I don't care. tory "rulers " (note lower case ) , DESPISE ,the working poor, the sick & needy. They need to rename themselves , "the slow genocide élite".. Wrong. Tell me, who got us into this? Who left a note saying the country was broke because they had spent all the money? And did it help us spending all that money? " The Global Financial crisis 2008 was not caused by the outgoing ruling party in the UK. Its response to it, which resulted in growth, was valued as a model example for others to pursue. The NeoCon drive for deregulation was spawned from the 1980s Republican and Conservative parties, so I suggest that you research properly and don't parrot what right winh media would like to think | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I know of people who live in what I would say is poverty, but they bunked off school and spent most of their 20's either getting sacked from jobs or just not bothering to work or having any desire to better themselves, is that the governments fault? In those cases no. But again the government sets the standard so to speak. From that it is what individuals do if the opportunity is there. Currently the opportunity is low and rare so that even hard working people are seeing themselves go in to poverty. " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Not all of us can be blamed for poverty, but all of us have an obligation to help where we can." An obligation ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You may need to have a little rethink, OP. "I am baffled.. on which point ,? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Hardest bit for me is this has caused rifts between my friends as I seriously can not believe how they think or am genuinely upset at how they don't care about anything and doggedly want to chase the get Brexit' done route. Surprising myself lately as I thought I was calm and placid but these days some veterans and serving Army people I just don't want to hear anymore in the local giving it the false patriotism blah blah Get the migrants out line every time Boris or Trump appears on the TV . Which often these days! and they are very very close to a bunch of fives if they aren't very careful this weekend ..opinions are important but so is respecting the ones you hear from others and probably more important the way you give your own out to be heard .. be glad when the 12th is over one way or the other ." Brexit is not all about patriotism surely ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Hardest bit for me is this has caused rifts between my friends as I seriously can not believe how they think or am genuinely upset at how they don't care about anything and doggedly want to chase the get Brexit' done route. Surprising myself lately as I thought I was calm and placid but these days some veterans and serving Army people I just don't want to hear anymore in the local giving it the false patriotism blah blah Get the migrants out line every time Boris or Trump appears on the TV . Which often these days! and they are very very close to a bunch of fives if they aren't very careful this weekend ..opinions are important but so is respecting the ones you hear from others and probably more important the way you give your own out to be heard .. be glad when the 12th is over one way or the other . Brexit is not all about patriotism surely ?" No its not, but pretty much if you did a quick poll of those that voted for it, that's the reason a large majority of them would give. I can count on my 2 hands the number of people that have given educated and fairly logical reasons for why they did. The rest of them pretty much say patriotism. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I've grown up in grinding, degrading poverty. I'm unbelievaby blessed that my parents eventually found their way to financial stability thanks to their hard work plus considerable assistance from the welfare state, but once you're in a position of true poverty it becomes incredibly difficult to find your way back without help, and it's hard to escape the fact that that help is sadly lacking now through a lack of funding and an attitude of hostility towards anyone who is struggling. When your whole focus is on finding stable housing and food, it's hard to look at doing the "more" that will lift you out of those circumstances. "The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness." Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms" Terry Pratchetts books contain a lot of such pearls of wisdom | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Brexit is not all about patriotism surely ?" You would have thought not .. sadly to some it is very much the 'thing' these days . Unfortunately. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"People people......... Poverty exists and will always exist as long as humans are on this Planet....... You can not blame poverty on any governments because a utopian society does not or will ever exist....... Socialism, capitalist, monarchy, and communism always have some aspects of rich and poor classes.... So Ending poverty will never happen......" No it won't. But should approx. 20% of our population be living in poverty? Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"People people......... Poverty exists and will always exist as long as humans are on this Planet....... You can not blame poverty on any governments because a utopian society does not or will ever exist....... Socialism, capitalist, monarchy, and communism always have some aspects of rich and poor classes.... So Ending poverty will never happen...... No it won't. But should approx. 20% of our population be living in poverty? Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government" Boom. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"People people......... Poverty exists and will always exist as long as humans are on this Planet....... You can not blame poverty on any governments because a utopian society does not or will ever exist....... Socialism, capitalist, monarchy, and communism always have some aspects of rich and poor classes.... So Ending poverty will never happen...... No it won't. But should approx. 20% of our population be living in poverty? Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government" Have you been to any third world countries? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"People people......... Poverty exists and will always exist as long as humans are on this Planet....... You can not blame poverty on any governments because a utopian society does not or will ever exist....... Socialism, capitalist, monarchy, and communism always have some aspects of rich and poor classes.... So Ending poverty will never happen...... No it won't. But should approx. 20% of our population be living in poverty? Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government Boom. "What is the UK ‘s total population? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You don't work and pay taxes then you're on your own regardless of your circumstances. " What about child carers? Their education is likely to be disturbed, they also may not have time to get a job when they leave school because they are still caring. There isn't much support for carers who care for family members. I'm fortunate that i had 4 children (that i 'couldn't afford'*) because caring for me is spread out between them and two are at college and none have had their educaion disturbed but under new rules if you can't afford more than 2 you are pushed into poverty along with all the disadvantages that come from not being able to have more options on how your life is. *We got benefits for them despite my partner at the time working so couldn't afford them i guess. But hey my ex-partners low wage had nothing to do with that. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"People people......... Poverty exists and will always exist as long as humans are on this Planet....... You can not blame poverty on any governments because a utopian society does not or will ever exist....... Socialism, capitalist, monarchy, and communism always have some aspects of rich and poor classes.... So Ending poverty will never happen...... No it won't. But should approx. 20% of our population be living in poverty? Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government Boom.
What is the UK ‘s total population?"For the 2018 data, which is what it's working off of, 66 million. 14 million people of that were recorded as living on poverty. All the information is online if you care to educate yourself on the state of poverty in the UK. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Poverty is due to many many things. . Including, but not exclusively, the benefit system which, over many decades has contributed to the idea of Why Work For A Living culture that does exist . Not all but a significant minority have spent their whole working lives living off the state. . . I believe that you only get out what you have contributed . . . Only the severely disabled should be exempt from this rule. You don't work and pay taxes then you're on your own regardless of your circumstances. " I work. I work fucking hard. Guess what? Last year I didn't earn enough to pay tax. I'm afraid to leave the job I'm currently in, as although I'm piss poor I DO earn enough to pay my essential bills (rent and council tax) and that's hugely important to me. I get paid 4 weekly and wages are generally gone within 48 hours and that's without buying food. Literally just paying outgoings. I had a breakdown a few years ago and am clearing the debts I incurred due to a fuck up beyond my control during that time. You seem very quick to become judge, jury and executioner P | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Priti Patell says that the government does not hold the blame for poverty in the UK. Should poverty be a blame game? It’s down to your ability to earn money nothing more. " Yes i would think so. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yes the torys are responsible for it and even more now with the universal credit where more and more people have to use food banks as it doesnt pay out in time, it is designed that way." . When you make a claim for Universal Credit the first payment can take up to 5 weeks after that it is paid monthly if you made a claim on the 10th of the month you tend to get your payment 3 working days after that.By no means is Universal Credit perfect but it is what we have got and it’s not getting replaced anytime soon but hopefully it can be tweaked.I work in a job centre and one of the reasons claimants don’t get paid on time is because they don’t check their to-do list or journals so payment is stopped until they action there to-do list.I advised all claimants to check their journals and to-do list every day or at least every second day.As I said earlier Universal Credit is not perfect nor am I defending it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"People people......... Poverty exists and will always exist as long as humans are on this Planet....... You can not blame poverty on any governments because a utopian society does not or will ever exist....... Socialism, capitalist, monarchy, and communism always have some aspects of rich and poor classes.... So Ending poverty will never happen...... No it won't. But should approx. 20% of our population be living in poverty? Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government Boom.
What is the UK ‘s total population?
For the 2018 data, which is what it's working off of, 66 million.
14 million people of that were recorded as living on poverty.
All the information is online if you care to educate yourself on the state of poverty in the UK.
"You can not blame any governments or economic system for poverty..... I work in finance and studied economics my whole life..... What I’m telling you are facts , not opinions...... If you had a Tory or Labor government, there would still be poverty........ Now if you can explain to me how to end poverty in the UK without being political , please do..... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"People people......... Poverty exists and will always exist as long as humans are on this Planet....... You can not blame poverty on any governments because a utopian society does not or will ever exist....... Socialism, capitalist, monarchy, and communism always have some aspects of rich and poor classes.... So Ending poverty will never happen...... No it won't. But should approx. 20% of our population be living in poverty? Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government Boom.
What is the UK ‘s total population?
For the 2018 data, which is what it's working off of, 66 million.
14 million people of that were recorded as living on poverty.
All the information is online if you care to educate yourself on the state of poverty in the UK.
You can not blame any governments or economic system for poverty.....
I work in finance and studied economics my whole life.....
What I’m telling you are facts , not opinions......
If you had a Tory or Labor government, there would still be poverty........
Now if you can explain to me how to end poverty in the UK without being political , please do.....
"You appear to think I've said Labour can eradicate poverty. Find where I said that and let me know. What I did say, was, "Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government." And that's true. I'd say let's check the Tory manifesto and see how they intend to help those in poverty but they haven't released it yet.. can't think of why. Labour do have policies aimed at helping those living in poverty though. And a manifesto released. You've given no facts. You asked me for the population data and then said nothing in reply. So why ask that question? If you think it's perfectly ok for 20% of the UKs population (and while we're at it, over 30% of children) to live in poverty then we're never going to agree so may as well end the conversation. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"People people......... Poverty exists and will always exist as long as humans are on this Planet....... You can not blame poverty on any governments because a utopian society does not or will ever exist....... Socialism, capitalist, monarchy, and communism always have some aspects of rich and poor classes.... So Ending poverty will never happen...... No it won't. But should approx. 20% of our population be living in poverty? Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government Boom.
What is the UK ‘s total population?
For the 2018 data, which is what it's working off of, 66 million.
14 million people of that were recorded as living on poverty.
All the information is online if you care to educate yourself on the state of poverty in the UK.
You can not blame any governments or economic system for poverty.....
I work in finance and studied economics my whole life.....
What I’m telling you are facts , not opinions......
If you had a Tory or Labor government, there would still be poverty........
Now if you can explain to me how to end poverty in the UK without being political , please do.....
You appear to think I've said Labour can eradicate poverty. Find where I said that and let me know.
What I did say, was, "Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government."
And that's true. I'd say let's check the Tory manifesto and see how they intend to help those in poverty but they haven't released it yet.. can't think of why.
Labour do have policies aimed at helping those living in poverty though. And a manifesto released.
You've given no facts. You asked me for the population data and then said nothing in reply. So why ask that question?
If you think it's perfectly ok for 20% of the UKs population (and while we're at it, over 30% of children) to live in poverty then we're never going to agree so may as well end the conversation."Ok let’s talk .............. Thank God everyday that you live in the UK and have a comfortable life....... Now you see the smartphone you’re using, and the clothes you are wearing... They are made from labor in the third world from people in poverty..... The chocolates you eat is harvested from child slaves...... I have traveled the world and tried to come up with a economic system to end poverty..... It has been an endeavor that I thought would yield me a Nobel prize...... What I have concluded is that for the few people on earth to live comfortable, the masses have to live in misery........ It’s not a question of it’s right or wrong.... It’s just how the world is and will always be...... Just a quick example, we have been sending money to African nations before you and I were born..... and there is still widespread poverty..... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"People people......... Poverty exists and will always exist as long as humans are on this Planet....... You can not blame poverty on any governments because a utopian society does not or will ever exist....... Socialism, capitalist, monarchy, and communism always have some aspects of rich and poor classes.... So Ending poverty will never happen...... No it won't. But should approx. 20% of our population be living in poverty? Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government Boom.
What is the UK ‘s total population?
For the 2018 data, which is what it's working off of, 66 million.
14 million people of that were recorded as living on poverty.
All the information is online if you care to educate yourself on the state of poverty in the UK.
You can not blame any governments or economic system for poverty.....
I work in finance and studied economics my whole life.....
What I’m telling you are facts , not opinions......
If you had a Tory or Labor government, there would still be poverty........
Now if you can explain to me how to end poverty in the UK without being political , please do.....
You appear to think I've said Labour can eradicate poverty. Find where I said that and let me know.
What I did say, was, "Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government."
And that's true. I'd say let's check the Tory manifesto and see how they intend to help those in poverty but they haven't released it yet.. can't think of why.
Labour do have policies aimed at helping those living in poverty though. And a manifesto released.
You've given no facts. You asked me for the population data and then said nothing in reply. So why ask that question?
If you think it's perfectly ok for 20% of the UKs population (and while we're at it, over 30% of children) to live in poverty then we're never going to agree so may as well end the conversation.
Ok let’s talk ..............
Thank God everyday that you live in the UK and have a comfortable life.......
Now you see the smartphone you’re using, and the clothes you are wearing... They are made from labor in the third world from people in poverty.....
The chocolates you eat is harvested from child slaves......
I have traveled the world and tried to come up with a economic system to end poverty.....
It has been an endeavor that I thought would yield me a Nobel prize......
What I have concluded is that for the few people on earth to live comfortable, the masses have to live in misery........
It’s not a question of it’s right or wrong....
It’s just how the world is and will always be......
Just a quick example, we have been sending money to African nations before you and I were born..... and there is still widespread poverty.....
"Yes but this discussion is about the poverty levels in the UK. Not how they compare elsewhere. So because poverty still exists in other countries we shouldn't expect the government to help the 20% of the nation living in poverty? I disagree completely. These discussions never work because you're making assumptions on me now. My phone, my clothes, chocolates I eat or don't. I do not thank god for anything, either. None of that is relevant to the poverty level within the UK and if the government is to blame or not. Your agenda is seperate from the topic, and every reply you've made to me has been irrelevant to what I've said. We may as well both save our time and not bother with this. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"People people......... Poverty exists and will always exist as long as humans are on this Planet....... You can not blame poverty on any governments because a utopian society does not or will ever exist....... Socialism, capitalist, monarchy, and communism always have some aspects of rich and poor classes.... So Ending poverty will never happen...... No it won't. But should approx. 20% of our population be living in poverty? Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government Boom.
What is the UK ‘s total population?
For the 2018 data, which is what it's working off of, 66 million.
14 million people of that were recorded as living on poverty.
All the information is online if you care to educate yourself on the state of poverty in the UK.
You can not blame any governments or economic system for poverty.....
I work in finance and studied economics my whole life.....
What I’m telling you are facts , not opinions......
If you had a Tory or Labor government, there would still be poverty........
Now if you can explain to me how to end poverty in the UK without being political , please do.....
You appear to think I've said Labour can eradicate poverty. Find where I said that and let me know.
What I did say, was, "Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government."
And that's true. I'd say let's check the Tory manifesto and see how they intend to help those in poverty but they haven't released it yet.. can't think of why.
Labour do have policies aimed at helping those living in poverty though. And a manifesto released.
You've given no facts. You asked me for the population data and then said nothing in reply. So why ask that question?
If you think it's perfectly ok for 20% of the UKs population (and while we're at it, over 30% of children) to live in poverty then we're never going to agree so may as well end the conversation.
Ok let’s talk ..............
Thank God everyday that you live in the UK and have a comfortable life.......
Now you see the smartphone you’re using, and the clothes you are wearing... They are made from labor in the third world from people in poverty.....
The chocolates you eat is harvested from child slaves......
I have traveled the world and tried to come up with a economic system to end poverty.....
It has been an endeavor that I thought would yield me a Nobel prize......
What I have concluded is that for the few people on earth to live comfortable, the masses have to live in misery........
It’s not a question of it’s right or wrong....
It’s just how the world is and will always be......
Just a quick example, we have been sending money to African nations before you and I were born..... and there is still widespread poverty.....
Yes but this discussion is about the poverty levels in the UK. Not how they compare elsewhere.
So because poverty still exists in other countries we shouldn't expect the government to help the 20% of the nation living in poverty? I disagree completely.
These discussions never work because you're making assumptions on me now. My phone, my clothes, chocolates I eat or don't. I do not thank god for anything, either.
None of that is relevant to the poverty level within the UK and if the government is to blame or not.
Your agenda is seperate from the topic, and every reply you've made to me has been irrelevant to what I've said. We may as well both save our time and not bother with this. " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"And back on track.. Is it the centrsl governments responsibility.. Priti says no.." She's probably meaning that she's not going to be losing any sleep over it. Many issues are complex, with many influences on them and underlying causes. Someone with intelligence and empathy would be focused less on absolving themselves from any responsibility, instead showing their compassion for those who are less fortunate than themselves and doing the right things, instead of wasting good air. Whilst poverty is relative, it's humane to want to care as well as to use your power and influence to change the ills of society for the better. We've seen huge changes between income and asset levels of those aat the top, from those at the bottom in recent years. Much of that difference is not random, nor due to hard work. It's predominantly the end results of neoliberal politics, since the 1980s, in the UK and USA. It's silly to ignore the elephant in the room. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"And back on track.. Is it the centrsl governments responsibility.. Priti says no.. She's probably meaning that she's not going to be losing any sleep over it. Many issues are complex, with many influences on them and underlying causes. Someone with intelligence and empathy would be focused less on absolving themselves from any responsibility, instead showing their compassion for those who are less fortunate than themselves and doing the right things, instead of wasting good air. Whilst poverty is relative, it's humane to want to care as well as to use your power and influence to change the ills of society for the better. We've seen huge changes between income and asset levels of those aat the top, from those at the bottom in recent years. Much of that difference is not random, nor due to hard work. It's predominantly the end results of neoliberal politics, since the 1980s, in the UK and USA. It's silly to ignore the elephant in the room. " Exactly this. Well constructed too. Get into politics - vote for the right things & the company you hold shares in somehow wins contracts all of a sudden. Look at Theresa May - subcontracted all the prison security to her husbands company..... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And there is no good substitute for capitalism right now." There never will be, judt as I there never will be this complete concept of a utopian society. It's not like we can completely think up new poilitical and economic models. The key is the right blend between everything, and currently it completely favours the the few. One day it will be forced to happen (universal income), but I don't see that happening until a few generations after that is fully needed. Politicians are self-serving twats. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"People people......... Poverty exists and will always exist as long as humans are on this Planet....... You can not blame poverty on any governments because a utopian society does not or will ever exist....... Socialism, capitalist, monarchy, and communism always have some aspects of rich and poor classes.... So Ending poverty will never happen...... No it won't. But should approx. 20% of our population be living in poverty? Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government Boom.
What is the UK ‘s total population?
For the 2018 data, which is what it's working off of, 66 million.
14 million people of that were recorded as living on poverty.
All the information is online if you care to educate yourself on the state of poverty in the UK.
You can not blame any governments or economic system for poverty.....
I work in finance and studied economics my whole life.....
What I’m telling you are facts , not opinions......
If you had a Tory or Labor government, there would still be poverty........
Now if you can explain to me how to end poverty in the UK without being political , please do.....
You appear to think I've said Labour can eradicate poverty. Find where I said that and let me know.
What I did say, was, "Lowering that number can and should happen. But won't under a Tory government."
And that's true. I'd say let's check the Tory manifesto and see how they intend to help those in poverty but they haven't released it yet.. can't think of why.
Labour do have policies aimed at helping those living in poverty though. And a manifesto released.
You've given no facts. You asked me for the population data and then said nothing in reply. So why ask that question?
If you think it's perfectly ok for 20% of the UKs population (and while we're at it, over 30% of children) to live in poverty then we're never going to agree so may as well end the conversation.
Ok let’s talk ..............
Thank God everyday that you live in the UK and have a comfortable life.......
Now you see the smartphone you’re using, and the clothes you are wearing... They are made from labor in the third world from people in poverty.....
The chocolates you eat is harvested from child slaves......
I have traveled the world and tried to come up with a economic system to end poverty.....
It has been an endeavor that I thought would yield me a Nobel prize......
What I have concluded is that for the few people on earth to live comfortable, the masses have to live in misery........
It’s not a question of it’s right or wrong....
It’s just how the world is and will always be......
Just a quick example, we have been sending money to African nations before you and I were born..... and there is still widespread poverty.....
Yes but this discussion is about the poverty levels in the UK. Not how they compare elsewhere.
So because poverty still exists in other countries we shouldn't expect the government to help the 20% of the nation living in poverty? I disagree completely.
These discussions never work because you're making assumptions on me now. My phone, my clothes, chocolates I eat or don't. I do not thank god for anything, either.
None of that is relevant to the poverty level within the UK and if the government is to blame or not.
Your agenda is seperate from the topic, and every reply you've made to me has been irrelevant to what I've said. We may as well both save our time and not bother with this. "Forgive me...... I digressed.... Since the UK’s government has given it’s citizens free healthcare, government pensions, free housing and food..... These are basic human rights...... What more can the Government give to raise the 20% of their population that is still in poverty? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And there is no good substitute for capitalism right now. There never will be, judt as I there never will be this complete concept of a utopian society. It's not like we can completely think up new poilitical and economic models. The key is the right blend between everything, and currently it completely favours the the few. One day it will be forced to happen (universal income), but I don't see that happening until a few generations after that is fully needed. Politicians are self-serving twats. " I agree with most of what you said...... But universal income has and never will work... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And there is no good substitute for capitalism right now. There never will be, judt as I there never will be this complete concept of a utopian society. It's not like we can completely think up new poilitical and economic models. The key is the right blend between everything, and currently it completely favours the the few. One day it will be forced to happen (universal income), but I don't see that happening until a few generations after that is fully needed. Politicians are self-serving twats. I agree with most of what you said...... But universal income has and never will work..." What I'm saying about universal income is that we'll getget to a point where it will be necessary, so will have to work (technological progressions, etc.). | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I know of people who live in what I would say is poverty, but they bunked off school and spent most of their 20's either getting sacked from jobs or just not bothering to work or having any desire to better themselves, is that the governments fault?" You are incredibly naïve. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"That's exactly what I mean Essex Tom! And people will disagree with me but poverty is where people literally have nothing, no food, no homes, no food banks. In comparison to other countries the UK is rich! " 100%....... You noticed how many foreign people are risking their lives to get into the UK/USA to live in our poverty....... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Capitalism creates poverty, the wealth only filters down to those on top and it's just the shit that rolls down hill. Its created a world where 1% of the worlds population own more than the remaining 99%. End of argument. Unless the politician in question doesnthold Capitalist values, they are very much responsible for poverty. " 100%! Capitalism is also why we are rapidly getting closer to human extinction. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" And there is no good substitute for capitalism right now. There never will be, judt as I there never will be this complete concept of a utopian society. It's not like we can completely think up new poilitical and economic models. The key is the right blend between everything, and currently it completely favours the the few. One day it will be forced to happen (universal income), but I don't see that happening until a few generations after that is fully needed. Politicians are self-serving twats. I agree with most of what you said...... But universal income has and never will work... What I'm saying about universal income is that we'll getget to a point where it will be necessary, so will have to work (technological progressions, etc.). " Try to remember this when it comes to monetary policy........ The more money printed and given away , the less it’s valued...... I teach Economics at a University, and I have challenged my students to come up with a better economic system than capitalism..... Universal income has come up many times , and it has been disproven every time...... But I will admit, in theory it does sound great.... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Capitalism creates poverty, the wealth only filters down to those on top and it's just the shit that rolls down hill. Its created a world where 1% of the worlds population own more than the remaining 99%. End of argument. Unless the politician in question doesnthold Capitalist values, they are very much responsible for poverty. 100%! Capitalism is also why we are rapidly getting closer to human extinction. " Very true, but what is a better option? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"That's exactly what I mean Essex Tom! And people will disagree with me but poverty is where people literally have nothing, no food, no homes, no food banks. In comparison to other countries the UK is rich! 100%....... You noticed how many foreign people are risking their lives to get into the UK/USA to live in our poverty......." Yeah compared to countries like africa and India, we can see why they want to come. But its still poverty and they come here to live like animals in a barn, 6 to 8 adults per room. But they have a dream that some of them can make it out of poverty, something none of them can ever do back in their own shitholes. So they come for a chance. The reason they go to the UK/US is simply because they are the two western world companies where illegal work is the easiest to get. It's harder to get illegal work in France. France has a way better quality of life for low earners, better health care, better weather, but its next to impossible for illegals from China to build a life there. UK is just a soft touch, easy to get illegal work, and even though you might still live in poverty, you might also break out of it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"That's exactly what I mean Essex Tom! And people will disagree with me but poverty is where people literally have nothing, no food, no homes, no food banks. In comparison to other countries the UK is rich! 100%....... You noticed how many foreign people are risking their lives to get into the UK/USA to live in our poverty....... Yeah compared to countries like africa and India, we can see why they want to come. But its still poverty and they come here to live like animals in a barn, 6 to 8 adults per room. But they have a dream that some of them can make it out of poverty, something none of them can ever do back in their own shitholes. So they come for a chance. The reason they go to the UK/US is simply because they are the two western world companies where illegal work is the easiest to get. It's harder to get illegal work in France. France has a way better quality of life for low earners, better health care, better weather, but its next to impossible for illegals from China to build a life there. UK is just a soft touch, easy to get illegal work, and even though you might still live in poverty, you might also break out of it." Great post...... So how come foreigners can come illegally to the USA/UK and work there way out of poverty? But our citizens are asking/expecting the government to help them out of poverty..... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I've grown up in grinding, degrading poverty. I'm unbelievaby blessed that my parents eventually found their way to financial stability thanks to their hard work plus considerable assistance from the welfare state, but once you're in a position of true poverty it becomes incredibly difficult to find your way back without help, and it's hard to escape the fact that that help is sadly lacking now through a lack of funding and an attitude of hostility towards anyone who is struggling. When your whole focus is on finding stable housing and food, it's hard to look at doing the "more" that will lift you out of those circumstances. "The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness." Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms" I love Terry Pritchett - the man had the greatest ability to understand human nature and portray it in a way that was subtle, humorous and at times heart breakingly poignant | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Great post...... So how come foreigners can come illegally to the USA/UK and work there way out of poverty? But our citizens are asking/expecting the government to help them out of poverty....." Because no legal entrant to the UK or UK born person can live in a house sharing their bedroom with 8 other adults, work all hours, knowing if they get caught, they have a nice nest built back up in their own country. They hope that they can make it here, but their backup plan is to return home in 20 years with what is back home, a fucking shit load of money. So the truth is, most illegals return home, or end up a UK citizen and go on the dole, but the chance for them to make it to a decent quality of life is higher in the UK than France simply because the UK is a soft touch to men of working age. Ireland is a soft touch to pregnant women hence they got targeted by african women turning up, getting pregnant, not getting flight home, having baby in Ireland, and as the mother of an Irish baby now granted EU citizenship themselves. Sen is a soft touch for children, loads of children end up there and end up with EU citizenship because of it. They do not target the UK because its so great, but like I said, because its a soft touch, and somewhere they can exploit, and worst case scenario for them is they end up on the dole, or back home with a load of cash. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Great post...... So how come foreigners can come illegally to the USA/UK and work there way out of poverty? But our citizens are asking/expecting the government to help them out of poverty..... Because no legal entrant to the UK or UK born person can live in a house sharing their bedroom with 8 other adults, work all hours, knowing if they get caught, they have a nice nest built back up in their own country. They hope that they can make it here, but their backup plan is to return home in 20 years with what is back home, a fucking shit load of money. So the truth is, most illegals return home, or end up a UK citizen and go on the dole, but the chance for them to make it to a decent quality of life is higher in the UK than France simply because the UK is a soft touch to men of working age. Ireland is a soft touch to pregnant women hence they got targeted by african women turning up, getting pregnant, not getting flight home, having baby in Ireland, and as the mother of an Irish baby now granted EU citizenship themselves. Sen is a soft touch for children, loads of children end up there and end up with EU citizenship because of it. They do not target the UK because its so great, but like I said, because its a soft touch, and somewhere they can exploit, and worst case scenario for them is they end up on the dole, or back home with a load of cash." Thank you for explaining this to me...... When you get a chance look up the term choosy beggars...... It’s very interesting..... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Question for you, someone from say war torn Syria seeks asylum in the UK, do you want to welcome them with open arms or send them back to the daily horror of their lives? Me I would welcome them with open arms" I would welcome them with open arms...... But remember I’m American, and we as a country are not as liberal as the UK..... I can send you a article from last week, someone brought up in class..... 2 homeless people are suing NYC homeless services for serving them expired food.... This will not make it to court because the city will pay them 10k to go away...... But only in a capitalist system can the citizens do such endeavors...... I don’t think this would work in China or Russia.... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"We live in a country with relative poverty but perhaps not actual poverty ?" There's relative poverty and what can reasonably be called real poverty here in the UK too. People who have had benefits sanctions, for up to 3 years, meaning their family goes without income - or what about people who were deemed fit for work, even with cancer, who died within weeks with nothing - 2 examples of the conservative government that Ms Patel is a member of and thus bears responsibility for. There are millions of people who have had stagnated wage levels, that have declined, whilst costs of living have sky rocketed, many struggling to feed themselves who have had to secure food bank help. It's worth looking at the homeless too, as most aren't millionaires | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Question for you, someone from say war torn Syria seeks asylum in the UK, do you want to welcome them with open arms or send them back to the daily horror of their lives? Me I would welcome them with open arms" Do you know how many of the migrants from Syria and Afghanistan who settled in Germany actually go home on their holidays to those countries.. staggering | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"We live in a country with relative poverty but perhaps not actual poverty ? There's relative poverty and what can reasonably be called real poverty here in the UK too. People who have had benefits sanctions, for up to 3 years, meaning their family goes without income - or what about people who were deemed fit for work, even with cancer, who died within weeks with nothing - 2 examples of the conservative government that Ms Patel is a member of and thus bears responsibility for. There are millions of people who have had stagnated wage levels, that have declined, whilst costs of living have sky rocketed, many struggling to feed themselves who have had to secure food bank help. It's worth looking at the homeless too, as most aren't millionaires " Yes and lots will tell you a sad story ... Some of them might even be true... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There are far too many variables to consider when apportioning blame, to just blame it on the government, carte blanche. It’s an easy way to criticise any current governing party. " There are models for building countries / societies that address the number of variables, these models are century’s old, well known to the government and they work. What we see with poverty in this country is not an accident, it’s a product of strategy. Part of the strategy of our current government is to make you afraid of being homeless, for you to fear that you need to see it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There are far too many variables to consider when apportioning blame, to just blame it on the government, carte blanche. It’s an easy way to criticise any current governing party. There are models for building countries / societies that address the number of variables, these models are century’s old, well known to the government and they work. What we see with poverty in this country is not an accident, it’s a product of strategy. Part of the strategy of our current government is to make you afraid of being homeless, for you to fear that you need to see it. " I don’t need a government strategy to make me want a roof over my head it’s a basic want/need. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Thank you for explaining this to me...... When you get a chance look up the term choosy beggars...... It’s very interesting....." If you didn't say you were American I would have guessed. Firstly the UK and Ireland setup a system to catch people who cant work and give them a decent quality of life, they did this knowing that some would exploit it and chose not to, however the needs of the many were put first and the many were honest decent people. The system had a counter balance which was a low cost of living. This meant when honest people lost their jobs, they were often quickly provided with a job somewhere else. This allowed a man to get a low paying job easily, and it was enough for him to have a wife, 3 kids, a car, and send all his kids to school/uni. All of it would have been very modest but achievable for him. Migrants arrived to exploit the system. They started to live in 2 bedroom house with 4 people per room, 100 quid each a month. Now the house that was renting for 500 a month was renting for 800. It was suddenly beyond the reach of the low earner. This got so bad that the UK system almost broke apart, the solution was for them to introduce high minimum wage to try and force the issue that at least the "legally" working people could have a life. This created a huge amount of what you call "chossy beggars", people who were now actively turning down every job offer because the dole worked out better for them, and actually increased illegal migrants who were more than willing to work for below the minimum wage. The solution would have been to slow down migration into the UK, be more strict on who can qualify to remain in the UK and basically turn back non EU people who offer nothing to the UK that they can not find inside the EU already. But the UK was just a soft touch for too long. Its gotten to the point now where people are not earning enough, to be able to pay enough tax, to be able to fund the nhs properly. Its all down to the disgusting way scumbags target people for being kind. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Question for you, someone from say war torn Syria seeks asylum in the UK, do you want to welcome them with open arms or send them back to the daily horror of their lives? Me I would welcome them with open arms" No. A good while ago the countries of the EU came up with an idea to create global stability. It was a simple idea, you are responsible for your neighbors and no one else. In this scenario Ireland openly said they would accept all migrants during a disaster, no questions asked, from the UK, Iceland, Scandanavia, America, Canada, South America, Spain, France. The UK said the same, they would help France, Scandanavia, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, etc etc. France said the same, they would help Germany, Italy, etc, etc... This means the UK and Ireland never have to help germany, and germany never has to help Icelandic people or spanish people. The idea that people travel half way across the world to exploit the UK system just cause their country at war is not the right idea, and it was pushed by Germany because they need the workers. These people are not even western minded people, they are not coming here to start a better life, they are coming here to continue to live exactly how they did before. Be hardcore muslims pushing for a muslim state. They are not from the middle ground, secular state minded group, that group is Assad and we dont accept his supporters. Did you know that Brazil will accept all and any migrants from Syria, and the flight to Brazil is cheaper than the trip to the EU? Did you know basically none go, because when they arrive in Brazil all they are offered is shelter and nothing else, they have to work for everything else? Like when Irish people went to America, they were offered nothing, but the chance to work or die. Irish people went there. But somehow that option is not good enough for syrians, they have to be able to walk across europe to the country with the social welfare system that suits them best. Its a fucking joke. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Question for you, someone from say war torn Syria seeks asylum in the UK, do you want to welcome them with open arms or send them back to the daily horror of their lives? Me I would welcome them with open arms No. A good while ago the countries of the EU came up with an idea to create global stability. It was a simple idea, you are responsible for your neighbors and no one else. In this scenario Ireland openly said they would accept all migrants during a disaster, no questions asked, from the UK, Iceland, Scandanavia, America, Canada, South America, Spain, France. The UK said the same, they would help France, Scandanavia, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, etc etc. France said the same, they would help Germany, Italy, etc, etc... This means the UK and Ireland never have to help germany, and germany never has to help Icelandic people or spanish people. The idea that people travel half way across the world to exploit the UK system just cause their country at war is not the right idea, and it was pushed by Germany because they need the workers. These people are not even western minded people, they are not coming here to start a better life, they are coming here to continue to live exactly how they did before. Be hardcore muslims pushing for a muslim state. They are not from the middle ground, secular state minded group, that group is Assad and we dont accept his supporters. Did you know that Brazil will accept all and any migrants from Syria, and the flight to Brazil is cheaper than the trip to the EU? Did you know basically none go, because when they arrive in Brazil all they are offered is shelter and nothing else, they have to work for everything else? Like when Irish people went to America, they were offered nothing, but the chance to work or die. Irish people went there. But somehow that option is not good enough for syrians, they have to be able to walk across europe to the country with the social welfare system that suits them best. Its a fucking joke." Wait till you are called a heartless racist | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Less time should be spent finger pointing and more spent on helping those in hardship. " These are my sentiments too. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
