FabSwingers.com forum: WW2 Personalities Thread: General MacArthur (US Army)

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Nerd alert, history and WW2 Fabbers only.

What do you know of him?

What are your views of him?

I've recently been listening to Hardcore History podcast and am on the series "Supernova in the East". Admittedly my Pacific theatre knowledge is weak. So a lot of this was fascinatingly new to me.

Thoughts?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Nobody know who he is?

Too boring for a Saturday night?

Too boring full stop?

Too niche?

He commanded the defence of the Phillipines when Japan attacked and held out with a contingent of US and Local Forces.

He abandoned his men to the Japanese and fled to Australia when the end came.

He used to talk about himself regularly in 3rd person. Using stage voice and dramatic speeches.

Had a direct line to US Military Media sources and only seemed to celebrate his own individual achievements, not his mens.

Yet he was quite a brilliant general and strategist.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Friday night even

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

He had some amazing quotes.

Old soldiers never die, they just fade away.

You are remembered for the rules you break.

The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"He had some amazing quotes.

Old soldiers never die, they just fade away.

You are remembered for the rules you break.

The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war.

Thankyou, yes he's often quoted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I actually watched a documentary on how monopoly was changed to help POWs and those serving in the war.

Basically, large numbers of British/Canadians, basically all allies who were felled over enemy airspace and then held as prisoners behind enemy lines were held by Germany. Germany had to adhere to the Geneva Convention which allowed the Red Cross to distribute care packages to the prisoners, which included games and pastimes. So the British M19 (secret service) took military advantage of this and posed as a charity, and sent packages to the POWs that featured hidden escape kits - that included tools like compasses, metal files, money (which was actually French, german, actual traceable money), and, maps made on silk (which was thin and water proof) all hidden within the monopoly game. It was the ideal size for a top-secret escape kit.

I like stories like that.

Look for the helpers.

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By *ORDERMANMan
over a year ago

wrexham

"Nerd alert, history and WW2 Fabbers only.

What do you know of him?

What are your views of him?

I've recently been listening to Hardcore History podcast and am on the series "Supernova in the East". Admittedly my Pacific theatre knowledge is weak. So a lot of this was fascinatingly new to me.

Thoughts?"

He did return....

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Nerd alert, history and WW2 Fabbers only.

What do you know of him?

What are your views of him?

I've recently been listening to Hardcore History podcast and am on the series "Supernova in the East". Admittedly my Pacific theatre knowledge is weak. So a lot of this was fascinatingly new to me.

Thoughts?

He did return.... "

He did.. which is why I've not given a full opinion, yet, as I'm waiting on the rest of the series.

I don't think I'd have left my men though. Maybe that'd make me a shit General?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Nerd alert, history and WW2 Fabbers only.

What do you know of him?

What are your views of him?

I've recently been listening to Hardcore History podcast and am on the series "Supernova in the East". Admittedly my Pacific theatre knowledge is weak. So a lot of this was fascinatingly new to me.

Thoughts?

He did return.... "

I didn't know that, youd have thought the Germans would have checked everything very carefully given it's a soldiers Duty to try to escape

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By *ildbillkidMan
over a year ago

where the road goes on forever

I've heard of men who fought over there refer to MacArthur as "doug-out doug " and " el supremeo" and the emperor of japan

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I've heard of men who fought over there refer to MacArthur as "doug-out doug " and " el supremeo" and the emperor of japan"

He has a very mixed reputation which is why I thought I'd ask.

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By *ildbillkidMan
over a year ago

where the road goes on forever

"I've heard of men who fought over there refer to MacArthur as "doug-out doug " and " el supremeo" and the emperor of japan

He has a very mixed reputation which is why I thought I'd ask."
supposedly on Roosevelt's orders that he went to Australia ,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Beautiful park, terrible song, complicated guy.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I've heard of men who fought over there refer to MacArthur as "doug-out doug " and " el supremeo" and the emperor of japan

He has a very mixed reputation which is why I thought I'd ask. supposedly on Roosevelt's orders that he went to Australia , "

I'm sorry, but fuck orders when you're watching your men fight to their last ounce of strength, and convincing them they must fight to the death.

I dont know what happened post Philipines yet, but that's the view I hold at the moment.

It may change as I learn more.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Beautiful park, terrible song, complicated guy."

Complicated is a word I've heard a lot to describe him

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Japanese virtually worship him. However reading some of the revisionist history it seems he was given quite the runaround by the Japanese due to the lack of interpreters acting in American interests. The big wins for the Japanese being the keeping of the emperor and his absolution from any war crimes, Tojo took the fall for that, and of course the keeping of the Japanese writing system. Then of course the mountain of gold pillaged throughout the parts of Asia they occupied that financed their recovery in the 50's and 60's. As far as my wife's family are concerned they achieved their war aims and came out victorious, and could claim victim status due to Hiroshima. It gets better they got the Americans to cover their defence and all the costs.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"The Japanese virtually worship him. However reading some of the revisionist history it seems he was given quite the runaround by the Japanese due to the lack of interpreters acting in American interests. The big wins for the Japanese being the keeping of the emperor and his absolution from any war crimes, Tojo took the fall for that, and of course the keeping of the Japanese writing system. Then of course the mountain of gold pillaged throughout the parts of Asia they occupied that financed their recovery in the 50's and 60's. As far as my wife's family are concerned they achieved their war aims and came out victorious, and could claim victim status due to Hiroshima. It gets better they got the Americans to cover their defence and all the costs."

I'm afraid you're well ahead of me on the knowledge front right now, I know none of that yet.

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By *tephTV67TV/TS
over a year ago

Cheshire

I always found Field Marshal Erwin Rommel a fascinating Military Leader. I suppose it's when I watched the film 'The Desert Fox' with James Mason taking on the role. I did history as a subject at School and we studied the rise of the Nazi Party before the war. So I've always had an interest in their side of the conflict. That's one reason 'Downfall' is on my top ten of films.

Sorry Ghengis no real knowledge of the allies, or their Generals

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I always found Field Marshal Erwin Rommel a fascinating Military Leader. I suppose it's when I watched the film 'The Desert Fox' with James Mason taking on the role. I did history as a subject at School and we studied the rise of the Nazi Party before the war. So I've always had an interest in their side of the conflict. That's one reason 'Downfall' is on my top ten of films.

Sorry Ghengis no real knowledge of the allies, or their Generals

I'm going to do other threads on this, if you read the title it kind of implies there will be more. Rommel, Churchill, Stalin, Hitler etc. Each with a thread of their own, I dont expect them to be overly popular, but the few who do join in will hopefully enjoy it.. or you do one on Rommel and I'll pitch in?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"We're the battling Bastards of Bataan,

No moma,

No papa,

No Uncle Sam,

No pills,

No planes,

No artillery pieces,

And nobody gives a damn"

A poem known by the men he left behind in the Phillipines. The men he visited only once, the rest of the time he hid on his island. The men he swore he loved. The men he abandoned. The men he expected to fight till the last, no surrender.

In the end it took a brave man to surrender to the Japanese in the Phillipines, General King, who fought alongside the men the entire duration. Whether being a "Guest of the Emperor" was a fate better than death is debatable though.

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By *hatYorkLadMan
over a year ago

York

I'm not as well read up on the pacific theatre of WW2 as I am the european and russian front. I've recently been on an organised battlefield tour of Normandy including Villers Bocage, Caen, hill 112, objective Hillman, OP Totalise and the Falaise pocket, it was good to expand my knowledge by actually going to the places and seeing the ground first hand. I've had an interest in WW2 from being a kid, my dad was fascinated by it and I used to read his books or watch documentaries with him

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm not as well read up on the pacific theatre of WW2 as I am the european and russian front. I've recently been on an organised battlefield tour of Normandy including Villers Bocage, Caen, hill 112, objective Hillman, OP Totalise and the Falaise pocket, it was good to expand my knowledge by actually going to the places and seeing the ground first hand. I've had an interest in WW2 from being a kid, my dad was fascinated by it and I used to read his books or watch documentaries with him

I thought I knew a lot about the European fronts, knew I didnt know a lot about Africa or the Pacific.

Hardcore History podcast is awesome, highly recommend it if you have time to listen.

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By *rontier PsychiatristMan
over a year ago

Coventry

Admittedly I don't know a lot about him. But from what I know he had a massively big head, vain, arrogant, shameless self promoter but also a massively talented commander. Just the sort of man you want in the right place and at the right time. But not the sort of man who had the flexibility to fill other roles and situations. I think to a certain extent we see this in how his career panned out. Anyway that the impression I get from the little I know of him ww2 and post war.

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By *rwhowhatwherewhyMan
over a year ago

Aylesbury

"Nerd alert, history and WW2 Fabbers only.

What do you know of him?

What are your views of him?

I've recently been listening to Hardcore History podcast and am on the series "Supernova in the East". Admittedly my Pacific theatre knowledge is weak. So a lot of this was fascinatingly new to me.

Thoughts?"

I do love a bit of hardcore history but I admit I'm a little behind on supernova in the east. As far as I'm aware MacAurthur was a bit of a media personality and nowhere near as competent as some of his contemporaries like Nimitz.

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By *rwhowhatwherewhyMan
over a year ago

Aylesbury

I thought I knew a lot about the European fronts, knew I didnt know a lot about Africa or the Pacific.

Hardcore History podcast is awesome, highly recommend it if you have time to listen."

My favourite was prophets of doom as I have a developed a bit of an interest in the reformation. I really want to visit the city of Münster for this reason.

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By *ulfilthmentMan
over a year ago

Just around the corner

Sorry Ghengis no real knowledge of the allies, or their Generals

Rommel’s exploits as a young officer in WWI were pretty exciting too. He was decorated for some great displays of tactics and leadership in France and later in the Italian mountains.

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By *r AmbassadorMan
over a year ago

Dublin

"Nerd alert, history and WW2 Fabbers only.

What do you know of him?

What are your views of him?

I've recently been listening to Hardcore History podcast and am on the series "Supernova in the East". Admittedly my Pacific theatre knowledge is weak. So a lot of this was fascinatingly new to me.

Thoughts?

Most of the Allied boys were far inferior to their German Japanese counterparts, like Monty was a fool ,marketgarden was his brain child.

If German Generals were allowed to do their Job we'd all be speaking a different language today,

If Yamamoto was allowed a 3rd and final wave the Sleeping Dragon he referred to would have been slain , which ment all the old ships the Yanks were giving Britain from the East Atlantic fleet would have stopped and the outcome would have changed completely,

Luck and a interfering political class played a bigger role in Allied success than any milatry Mastermind.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

His role and gungho attitude in Korea is worty researching. A mastermind but as history shows, war doesnt always go your way.

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By *antra MassageMan
over a year ago

South Side.

Macarthurs big mistake was thinking he could defeat the Chinese after Korea. He was undoubtedly a great soldier, but lacked political understanding. He fell out with Roosevelt, over his belief he shouldn't stop his advance at the Korean/Chinese border, and wanted to attack China. Roosevelt made a very unpopular decision and ordered Macarthur to return to the States, where he retired soon after. The subject of surrender is an emotive one, mentioned above. I'm sure any General who has to surrender(or avoid surrender), has to live with that decision for the rest of his life.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Admittedly I don't know a lot about him. But from what I know he had a massively big head, vain, arrogant, shameless self promoter but also a massively talented commander. Just the sort of man you want in the right place and at the right time. But not the sort of man who had the flexibility to fill other roles and situations. I think to a certain extent we see this in how his career panned out. Anyway that the impression I get from the little I know of him ww2 and post war."

I share that view, but I wouldn't want him commanding me at any point, talented or not.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Nerd alert, history and WW2 Fabbers only.

What do you know of him?

What are your views of him?

I've recently been listening to Hardcore History podcast and am on the series "Supernova in the East". Admittedly my Pacific theatre knowledge is weak. So a lot of this was fascinatingly new to me.

Thoughts?

He does seem to crave fame and seems to be a bit of a diva.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I thought I knew a lot about the European fronts, knew I didnt know a lot about Africa or the Pacific.

Hardcore History podcast is awesome, highly recommend it if you have time to listen.

My favourite was prophets of doom as I have a developed a bit of an interest in the reformation. I really want to visit the city of Münster for this reason."

I found that episode hard going myself, I prefer the longer epics like Wrath of the Khans, Deathroes of the Republic, Punic nightmare, Ghosts of the Ostfront and am currently loving Supernova in the East, though first episode was hard going compared to follow two so far.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Sorry Ghengis no real knowledge of the allies, or their Generals

Rommel’s exploits as a young officer in WWI were pretty exciting too. He was decorated for some great displays of tactics and leadership in France and later in the Italian mountains."

We'll get to Rommel in another thread, unless you or someone else wants to start another with similar name? make our own series?

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By *rontier PsychiatristMan
over a year ago

Coventry

I'm also pretty sure history would have viewed him less favourably if he got his way with his nuclear plans in Korean war. Dropping a load of nukes and also creating his radioactive wall from sea to sea might have made him, the US and the UN look like monsters.

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By *rontier PsychiatristMan
over a year ago

Coventry

I share that view, but I wouldn't want him commanding me at any point, talented or not."

Agreed, not my sort of commander.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

" His role and gungho attitude in Korea is worty researching. A mastermind but as history shows, war doesnt always go your way."

I know nothing of Korea yet, I'm only just learning about him through his time in Phillipines on the Bataan Peninsula.

So my judgement of the man is only viewed through that particular lense right now. Right now I'm definitely no fan of the guy for leaving his troops like he did, orders or no orders. Especially as he expected to be able to continue to lead them all into a suicidal fight to the death, from the saftey of his escape.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Macarthurs big mistake was thinking he could defeat the Chinese after Korea. He was undoubtedly a great soldier, but lacked political understanding. He fell out with Roosevelt, over his belief he shouldn't stop his advance at the Korean/Chinese border, and wanted to attack China. Roosevelt made a very unpopular decision and ordered Macarthur to return to the States, where he retired soon after. The subject of surrender is an emotive one, mentioned above. I'm sure any General who has to surrender(or avoid surrender), has to live with that decision for the rest of his life. "

The above post is a reply to you as well TantricMassage. I don't know about Korea yet.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm also pretty sure history would have viewed him less favourably if he got his way with his nuclear plans in Korean war. Dropping a load of nukes and also creating his radioactive wall from sea to sea might have made him, the US and the UN look like monsters."

Would you have dropped the bombs on Japan? Thread all in itself.. No need to answer.

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By *rontier PsychiatristMan
over a year ago

Coventry

Would you have dropped the bombs on Japan? Thread all in itself.. No need to answer."

Now that's the million dollar one? I won't answer because my reasoning is polluted with the advantages of hindsight anyway. I see the point, people often don't understand the bloodlines of the Korean war on troops and civilians alike. But he wasn't proposing a nuke here or there, he wanted to nuke the fuck out of the place and leave a radioactive wall that would be a total no go zone for 60 to 120 years. I think in the post war climate it would have set a dangerous president in terms of the use of nukes in warfare. Also in the modern age the general consensus is the use of nukes is bad.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if i may add a man who i looked up to and respected.

John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming Churchill. known as 'Mad Jack' churchill.

no2 commando, 3 commando brigade, 5th (Scottish) parachute battalion and many more.

He always went into battle with a longbow, bagpipes and a scottish broadsword.

his motto was 'any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed'.

in norway he was playing 'march of the cameron men' on his bagpipes on the landing craft. and as its ramps fell leapt forward threw a granade and charged at the enemy.

his actions at dunkirk and vagsoy he received the military cross and bar.

many stories of him taking on the enemy in hand to hand combat he even walked miles back into enemy territory to recover his sword and took on a german regiment.

he was taken prisoner and interrogated because the germans thought he was related to winston churchill.

a brave brilliant man who never took a step back and was quoted as saying after the bombing of nagasaki by the americans, 'if it wasnt for those damn yanks, we could have kept the war going for another 10 years'

he earnt that title 'mad jack'.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Would you have dropped the bombs on Japan? Thread all in itself.. No need to answer.

It is a million dollar question. The more you learn with benefit of foresight, hindsight and history.. only makes it harder to answer.

It depends for me, if I could be convinced through experience, hardened by experience, resolved enough through experience.. then I may have indeed thought dropping the bomb was the lesser of two evils.

The podcast covers the reasons why Japan ended up in a war in the first place. Went all the way back to pre-World War 1 period. Fear of being consumed in colony wars, turned them into want-to-be colonisers themselves, with help from the chaos of Japanese politics and the annexation of Manchuria.

Anglo American alliance demanding they stop with China, met with oil trade sanctions, led to a lightening strike on all Allied forces and an alliance with Axis.

Yamamoto thought this was Japanese suicide, yet came up with the grand plan that was initially very effective. Though like he predicted.. suicide.

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By *ildbillkidMan
over a year ago

where the road goes on forever

William Manchester wrote McArthur's biography called "American ceasar"

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By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

There was no need to drop the nukes, the Russians had already agreed to enter China, and the japanese were literally running down the road away from the Russians and that caused the collapse of the japanese Army.

The two bombs dropped cause pretty much no tactical changes, as they could defend most of japan from the slow moving bombers needed for nukes of any tactical importance.

America actually caused the nuclear arms race by just wanting to look like they were the ones who won the war.

They knew the exact time and date Russia would enter and they dropped the bombs just before. They then never even mentioned back in America that Russian troops were swarming China, and said that dropping the bombs won the war.

This was a lie to make them look strong. It resulted in every country trying to get nuclear weapons.

The US lie all the time. During the cuban missile crisis they compromised a lot to stop Russia putting missiles in Cuba. Yet they showed it to the world that they drew a line in the sand russia wouldn't cross it. Successive american governments even though they know they heavily compromised on the cuban missile crisis still refuse to compromise publicly because of the perception that it is weak back in America, and that they must draw a line in the sand and fire missiles if its crossed.

Utter nonsense from them.

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By *Man1263Man
over a year ago

Stockport

No.

Japan would never stop.

Look how they defended the outer islands.

Think how they would defend the main islands.

The nukes showed the futility of carrying on.

Job jobbed.

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By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

"No.

Japan would never stop.

Look how they defended the outer islands.

Think how they would defend the main islands.

The nukes showed the futility of carrying on.

Job jobbed.

Then why did they not give up after the bomb?

Why did they, as records clearly, CLEARLY show, give up after reports of what Russia was doing in China got to them.

1.5 million, let that sink in, 1.5 million troops began to move across China toward Japan. Over 5000 tanks, 30,000 artillery guns. 4000 aircraft.

The Japanese admit, their troops turned and ran.

They had been skinning Russians alive, experimenting on pregnant russian women, getting them pregnant over and over, freezing the limbs of russians and cutting them off. They were absolutely terrified of the revenge about to be heaped upon them from what they did in Unit 731.

America made a deal with the japanese, no one would be prosecuted of war crimes, no one would be sent to jail, they could keep their emperor etc, and America would stop Russia invading and wiping them out.

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By *Man1263Man
over a year ago

Stockport

Did we invade the main islands?

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By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

"Did we invade the main islands?

A bomb that caused no strategical loss to the japanese won the war, and not Russia taking 700,000 japanese troops, 1000 japanese planes, 600 japanese tanks etc.

Mengjiang and Manchukuo had 240,000 troops, turn and run at the sight of the russians. Japan got word that areas with 200,000 troops were lost to the russians within hours.

I mean its fine, if you want to believe it was actually a bomb that won the war, thats fine, but I think it was not that, and think it was at least not just that.

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By *Man1263Man
over a year ago

Stockport

"Did we invade the main islands?

A bomb that caused no strategical loss to the japanese won the war, and not Russia taking 700,000 japanese troops, 1000 japanese planes, 600 japanese tanks etc.

Mengjiang and Manchukuo had 240,000 troops, turn and run at the sight of the russians. Japan got word that areas with 200,000 troops were lost to the russians within hours.

I mean its fine, if you want to believe it was actually a bomb that won the war, thats fine, but I think it was not that, and think it was at least not just that."

Your right, it wasnt just that.

But drop a nuke or two, kill a few thousand, save millions.

Which would you pick?

Would ypu be Russia and get told stop there. You then have to think, what if they drop a nuke in our path? How do we defeat that?

Do you say to the allies, this is our homeland and we will defend to the last woman? Or look at the nuke going off and think "hang on, we have an option, end this and walk away, or have no island"

So it worked.

Drop, bang, end ex

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"There was no need to drop the nukes, the Russians had already agreed to enter China, and the japanese were literally running down the road away from the Russians and that caused the collapse of the japanese Army.

The two bombs dropped cause pretty much no tactical changes, as they could defend most of japan from the slow moving bombers needed for nukes of any tactical importance.

America actually caused the nuclear arms race by just wanting to look like they were the ones who won the war.

This was a lie to make them look strong. It resulted in every country trying to get nuclear weapons.

Utter nonsense from them."

Part of me wonders if the bombs were a reaction to the kind of war the Pacific was.

The other Axis and Alied powers were accustomed to chivalry and had all signed POW treaties and Ruled of Engagement of sorts.

Japan never did, they did whatever it took to win. Caring for POWs wouldn't be on my priority list in a fight for survival, which essentially what every war is the moment it begins.

What we weren't prepared for is the close cruelty and the methods used to win at all costs Japanese soldiers were prepared to do to win at all costs. The ill treatment after capture didn't help things.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the bomb dropping was done in cold, hard revenge for everything gone before.

The Japanese soldiers were supposedly notorious for never surrendering, or faux surrendering.. then pulling a hidden grenade pin.

So lots of Americans began killing them all.. to a man.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Also.. its a big fucking statement to make to the World.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Governments care about economics. They don't care about people. If the war is bankrupting you, stop it, as quick as you can. If Brad from Kentucky has been killed and had his cock placed in his mouth, the bank of America won't give a fuck. But if that gold reserve looks threatened, then get the hell out of Dodge!!!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Governments care about economics. They don't care about people. If the war is bankrupting you, stop it, as quick as you can. If Brad from Kentucky has been killed and had his cock placed in his mouth, the bank of America won't give a fuck. But if that gold reserve looks threatened, then get the hell out of Dodge!!!"

Sadly, the truth of all this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Brilliant thread Genghis and I think that podcast might have to be my new last thing at night listen. I know sod all about MacArthur and very little about the Pacific theatre.

As for the bomb you can argue all day long about whether or not the Japanese would have surrendered, if Hiroshima was necessary, Nagasaki wasn't. They were live testing two different designs of bombs. Prosecuting peace is an interesting term and there is profit and revenge inherent in it...

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Brilliant thread Genghis and I think that podcast might have to be my new last thing at night listen. I know sod all about MacArthur and very little about the Pacific theatre.

It's a really good podcast

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