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What are everyone's opinions and experiences?
Mrs TMN x | |||
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But seriously, it’s likely as previously mentioned, a form of deflective attribution for perceived personal failure in the context. | |||
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"They don’t *really* think that. They just like to blame others for their lack of success. It’s easier than admitting it’s their own fault "That's the thing, though. I think some really do believe it. | |||
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"Not sure if it gives them all a bad name but the nasty men put many women and couples off men in general on here. The disrespectful messages/ abuse from men makes many people put their mail filters on to block men. Or it makes them behave a certain way- like never replying to messages or having ranty profiles because they're sick of all the shit. " I just don’t reply because I think I’m above everyone | |||
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"Not sure if it gives them all a bad name but the nasty men put many women and couples off men in general on here. The disrespectful messages/ abuse from men makes many people put their mail filters on to block men. Or it makes them behave a certain way- like never replying to messages or having ranty profiles because they're sick of all the shit. I just don’t reply because I think I’m above everyone "  | |||
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"Horrible singles making me look bad? Sounds like something a dude with a small Dick pic would say. Personally I don't understand why single men would be horrible to sexy women. Come to think of it why would any real man be horrible on this site. "Strange?"" But men with big cocks don’t say it? And it’s alright to be horrible to women who are fuck ugly?  | |||
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"Horrible singles making me look bad? Sounds like something a dude with a small Dick pic would say. Personally I don't understand why single men would be horrible to sexy women. Come to think of it why would any real man be horrible on this site. "Strange?"" It's not about being horrible - more about being entitled and moany I feel? | |||
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"Not sure if it gives them all a bad name but the nasty men put many women and couples off men in general on here. The disrespectful messages/ abuse from men makes many people put their mail filters on to block men. Or it makes them behave a certain way- like never replying to messages or having ranty profiles because they're sick of all the shit. I just don’t reply because I think I’m above everyone " You are. The others aren't though. | |||
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"Not sure if it gives them all a bad name but the nasty men put many women and couples off men in general on here. The disrespectful messages/ abuse from men makes many people put their mail filters on to block men. Or it makes them behave a certain way- like never replying to messages or having ranty profiles because they're sick of all the shit. I just don’t reply because I think I’m above everyone You are. The others aren't though. " Peasants | |||
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"I think the guys that act like idiots actually make it easier for the nicer guys (for want of a better word) to stand out, the only reason they perceive it puts people off is because women/couples end up blocking most men because of how others behave. " Excellent point! | |||
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"...that the behaviour of other single men reflects badly on them? Catchy title, right? I often see comments on the forums about the behaviour of some single men giving them all a bad name by association. Speaking from a woman's perspective, the opposite is true! The guys who speak to you like a person rather than a piece of meat or the property of your other half stand out a mile. So really, they're doing you a favour by being dickish
What are everyone's opinions and experiences?
Mrs TMN x"Personally i dont really associate other mens behaviour with mine on here my behaviour is my responsibility and theirs likewise. Yes some couples and women can be made apprehensive but after a couple of minutes talking they're fine. The ones that are doing it is the ones who dont do very well or just dont do on here and thats because they don't really understand much about this site or the people on it | |||
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"In the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king. It really isn't hard to stand out against the minimal effort and lack of inderstanding/respect shown by so many single men on here. It never ceases to amaze me how people think that they are held back by others " My cock stands out more noticeably than some men on here. | |||
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"In the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king. It really isn't hard to stand out against the minimal effort and lack of inderstanding/respect shown by so many single men on here. It never ceases to amaze me how people think that they are held back by others " Exactly this. Ive never bought into the 'they make us look bad' thought process. We all fail or succeed on our own merits on here. The people who behave badly, negatively or like cocks only make themselves look bad. If we turn it around, the good ones don't make the bad ones better do they?! If people choose to see genders as a homogeneous whole and judge them as such, then that says far more about them | |||
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 - Mrs
I believe the good ones stand out and whinging about them holding you back absolves you of the responsibility of making a real change. It also greatly limits the chance of success. | |||
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""You're all individuals!" "Yes, we're all individuals!" "I'm not." (or, some men seem to think that any comment about men is personal unless you specifically say #notallmen) " | |||
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"In the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king. It really isn't hard to stand out against the minimal effort and lack of inderstanding/respect shown by so many single men on here. It never ceases to amaze me how people think that they are held back by others Exactly this. Ive never bought into the 'they make us look bad' thought process. We all fail or succeed on our own merits on here. The people who behave badly, negatively or like cocks only make themselves look bad. If we turn it around, the good ones don't make the bad ones better do they?! If people choose to see genders as a homogeneous whole and judge them as such, then that says far more about them " Yes! Like the "all single women are up themselves and too choosy" and "all couples are too demanding and I'm too worried about offending them" chat. | |||
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"I didn’t get any mongol nudes which reflects badly on mongols - Mrs
I believe the good ones stand out and whinging about them holding you back absolves you of the responsibility of making a real change. It also greatly limits the chance of success. "LOL. Poor show, Mongols! The Horde demand nudes for all! | |||
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"Unfortunately there seems to be very little solidarity between men now "Solidarity? In what way? | |||
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"The reason why men think that. In my view is that some of the messages women get (a lot). Are beyond creepy. So a lot of women put men in the same branch. " Are you "a lot of women"? Isn't the point that we're all individuals so we all act and think differently? | |||
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"Unfortunately there seems to be very little solidarity between men now "Can you expand on that? | |||
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"The reason why men think that. In my view is that some of the messages women get (a lot). Are beyond creepy. So a lot of women put men in the same branch. Are you "a lot of women"? Isn't the point that we're all individuals so we all act and think differently? "I didn't say I was a lot of women. I was trying to get across that men scare women off or creep women out leaving the good men trying ten times harder to get a reply. I've been on here for 6 years in total (on and off) and to this date I've not had a woman make the first message. | |||
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"I don't think it's tarring with the same brush so much as the silly behaviour of some men on fab create a sense of distrust to begin with. Obviously it's to be expected. I see so many statuses complaining about people being abusive when rejected. That's the main reason I won't message first. There's already a sense of distrust. The respectful solution is to leave the decision to chat in the hands of the lady. Point of note. This doesn't work if you are wanting to get along on fab lol" Again, here's the thing - you're making a lot of assumptions there. I don't see a man messaging first as disrespectful. That makes no sense to me at all. If you message and you are a normal person, speaking to me like a person, there's no need for you to worry about not seeming trustworthy or respectful | |||
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"The reason why men think that. In my view is that some of the messages women get (a lot). Are beyond creepy. So a lot of women put men in the same branch. Are you "a lot of women"? Isn't the point that we're all individuals so we all act and think differently?
I didn't say I was a lot of women. I was trying to get across that men scare women off or creep women out leaving the good men trying ten times harder to get a reply. I've been on here for 6 years in total (on and off) and to this date I've not had a woman make the first message. "That's my point. It's not the creepy messages that makes it harder for the decent guys to get a reply (I assume you put yourself in the decent guy bracket). The opposite is true - they stand out more. | |||
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"The reason why men think that. In my view is that some of the messages women get (a lot). Are beyond creepy. So a lot of women put men in the same branch. Are you "a lot of women"? Isn't the point that we're all individuals so we all act and think differently?
I didn't say I was a lot of women. I was trying to get across that men scare women off or creep women out leaving the good men trying ten times harder to get a reply. I've been on here for 6 years in total (on and off) and to this date I've not had a woman make the first message.
That's my point. It's not the creepy messages that makes it harder for the decent guys to get a reply (I assume you put yourself in the decent guy bracket). The opposite is true - they stand out more. "So if I messaged you. Just a casual hello. Asking how your day was and something interesting about your profile. Would you reply ? | |||
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"The reason why men think that. In my view is that some of the messages women get (a lot). Are beyond creepy. So a lot of women put men in the same branch. Are you "a lot of women"? Isn't the point that we're all individuals so we all act and think differently?
I didn't say I was a lot of women. I was trying to get across that men scare women off or creep women out leaving the good men trying ten times harder to get a reply. I've been on here for 6 years in total (on and off) and to this date I've not had a woman make the first message.
That's my point. It's not the creepy messages that makes it harder for the decent guys to get a reply (I assume you put yourself in the decent guy bracket). The opposite is true - they stand out more.
So if I messaged you. Just a casual hello. Asking how your day was and something interesting about your profile. Would you reply ?"Depends if you're what I'm looking for | |||
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"The reason why men think that. In my view is that some of the messages women get (a lot). Are beyond creepy. So a lot of women put men in the same branch. Are you "a lot of women"? Isn't the point that we're all individuals so we all act and think differently?
I didn't say I was a lot of women. I was trying to get across that men scare women off or creep women out leaving the good men trying ten times harder to get a reply. I've been on here for 6 years in total (on and off) and to this date I've not had a woman make the first message.
That's my point. It's not the creepy messages that makes it harder for the decent guys to get a reply (I assume you put yourself in the decent guy bracket). The opposite is true - they stand out more.
So if I messaged you. Just a casual hello. Asking how your day was and something interesting about your profile. Would you reply ?
Depends if you're what I'm looking for "Think I'm coming off on the wrong foot here | |||
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"I dont think their behaviour makes me look good. I worry for those who don't get it. I've been there myself, struggling along as an invisible single man. Social deprivation can drive you mad and cause you to act out of character sometimes. Any attention is better than no attention when you've got nothing.. no friends, or family to turn to for support. It's all well and good being told to talk, but what if nobody is prepared to listen?" There’s talking - and there's sending unpleasant and entitled messages to strangers... | |||
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"The reason why men think that. In my view is that some of the messages women get (a lot). Are beyond creepy. So a lot of women put men in the same branch. Are you "a lot of women"? Isn't the point that we're all individuals so we all act and think differently?
I didn't say I was a lot of women. I was trying to get across that men scare women off or creep women out leaving the good men trying ten times harder to get a reply. I've been on here for 6 years in total (on and off) and to this date I've not had a woman make the first message.
That's my point. It's not the creepy messages that makes it harder for the decent guys to get a reply (I assume you put yourself in the decent guy bracket). The opposite is true - they stand out more.
So if I messaged you. Just a casual hello. Asking how your day was and something interesting about your profile. Would you reply ?
Depends if you're what I'm looking for
Think I'm coming off on the wrong foot here"How so? | |||
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"The reason why men think that. In my view is that some of the messages women get (a lot). Are beyond creepy. So a lot of women put men in the same branch. Are you "a lot of women"? Isn't the point that we're all individuals so we all act and think differently?
I didn't say I was a lot of women. I was trying to get across that men scare women off or creep women out leaving the good men trying ten times harder to get a reply. I've been on here for 6 years in total (on and off) and to this date I've not had a woman make the first message.
That's my point. It's not the creepy messages that makes it harder for the decent guys to get a reply (I assume you put yourself in the decent guy bracket). The opposite is true - they stand out more.
So if I messaged you. Just a casual hello. Asking how your day was and something interesting about your profile. Would you reply ?
Depends if you're what I'm looking for
Think I'm coming off on the wrong foot here
How so? "Think I'm starting to sound like a knobhead | |||
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"The reason why men think that. In my view is that some of the messages women get (a lot). Are beyond creepy. So a lot of women put men in the same branch. Are you "a lot of women"? Isn't the point that we're all individuals so we all act and think differently?
I didn't say I was a lot of women. I was trying to get across that men scare women off or creep women out leaving the good men trying ten times harder to get a reply. I've been on here for 6 years in total (on and off) and to this date I've not had a woman make the first message.
That's my point. It's not the creepy messages that makes it harder for the decent guys to get a reply (I assume you put yourself in the decent guy bracket). The opposite is true - they stand out more.
So if I messaged you. Just a casual hello. Asking how your day was and something interesting about your profile. Would you reply ?
Depends if you're what I'm looking for
Think I'm coming off on the wrong foot here
How so?
Think I'm starting to sound like a knobhead"Not at all! We're just coming at it from different viewpoints. I'm saying, not all women tar men with the same brush. I don't think either of us is in a position to make assumptions about the opposite gender | |||
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"I don't think it's tarring with the same brush so much as the silly behaviour of some men on fab create a sense of distrust to begin with. Obviously it's to be expected. I see so many statuses complaining about people being abusive when rejected. That's the main reason I won't message first. There's already a sense of distrust. The respectful solution is to leave the decision to chat in the hands of the lady. Point of note. This doesn't work if you are wanting to get along on fab lol Again, here's the thing - you're making a lot of assumptions there. I don't see a man messaging first as disrespectful. That makes no sense to me at all. If you message and you are a normal person, speaking to me like a person, there's no need for you to worry about not seeming trustworthy or respectful "Present company excluded, but I've sent many messages in the past. Being crude makes my skin crawl so I'm always polite and unnasuming. To be fair, one or two have been good enough to reply and when not interested, I leave it at that. Just wish there were more like those people. I think there would be if people weren't already dubious of any contact from men. | |||
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"I dont think their behaviour makes me look good. I worry for those who don't get it. I've been there myself, struggling along as an invisible single man. Social deprivation can drive you mad and cause you to act out of character sometimes. Any attention is better than no attention when you've got nothing.. no friends, or family to turn to for support. It's all well and good being told to talk, but what if nobody is prepared to listen? There’s talking - and there's sending unpleasant and entitled messages to strangers... " Very true | |||
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"We see it as White Knighting. The don't really think that, they just hope to impress the women with how woke that are. It's quite insulting that they think women will fall for it actually" I honestly think some do! | |||
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"We see it as White Knighting. The don't really think that, they just hope to impress the women with how woke that are. It's quite insulting that they think women will fall for it actually I honestly think some do! " Just to play devils advocate. I understand your point, but that means, those who are white Knights, as you put it, are buggered any which way. My point is, some guys on here are genuinely decent and respectful. Please don't take this as a dig, but it kind of proves the point about tarring with the same brush | |||
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"We see it as White Knighting. The don't really think that, they just hope to impress the women with how woke that are. It's quite insulting that they think women will fall for it actually" Odd.. I don’t have this experience at all. I talk to lots of guys here and they don’t overstep the mark or try to impress.. they’re just nice guys.. | |||
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"We see it as White Knighting. The don't really think that, they just hope to impress the women with how woke that are. It's quite insulting that they think women will fall for it actually Odd.. I don’t have this experience at all. I talk to lots of guys here and they don’t overstep the mark or try to impress.. they’re just nice guys.. " I was talking about on forum threads not one to one | |||
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"We see it as White Knighting. The don't really think that, they just hope to impress the women with how woke that are. It's quite insulting that they think women will fall for it actually I honestly think some do! Just to play devils advocate. I understand your point, but that means, those who are white Knights, as you put it, are buggered any which way. My point is, some guys on here are genuinely decent and respectful. Please don't take this as a dig, but it kind of proves the point about tarring with the same brush "Sorry, not quite sure what you mean - are you saying that any guy who is decent and respectful is a white knight? I think the previous poster meant that guys who call other guys out for poor behaviour are white knighting cos they're trying to get their leg over? I don't think either statement is true, for what it's worth | |||
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"We see it as White Knighting. The don't really think that, they just hope to impress the women with how woke that are. It's quite insulting that they think women will fall for it actually Odd.. I don’t have this experience at all. I talk to lots of guys here and they don’t overstep the mark or try to impress.. they’re just nice guys.. I was talking about on forum threads not one to one "Ah.. I just take forum stuff as a crack.. bit of fun..don’t think I’ve ever had a grim message from anyone I’ve met on the forums though.. | |||
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"I block single men because I can't be arsed looking for the decent ones. Women/couples = higher percentages of nicer messages. I'd even say the overall shortage of women on this site altogether is at least in part because they can't be arsed for the same reason - getting unnecessary grief.So, yeah, I would agree that a few ruin it for a lot." We don't agree then | |||
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"I think the previous poster meant that guys who call other guys out for poor behaviour are white knighting cos they're trying to get their leg over" Not all of them, but some are really obvious | |||
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"I dont think their behaviour makes me look good. I worry for those who don't get it. I've been there myself, struggling along as an invisible single man. Social deprivation can drive you mad and cause you to act out of character sometimes. Any attention is better than no attention when you've got nothing.. no friends, or family to turn to for support. It's all well and good being told to talk, but what if nobody is prepared to listen?" | |||
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"I was talking about this recently and I think there are a lot of misconceptions on the site and part of that is down to we tend to hear more about negative experiences than we do the good ones, so the negative one stand out, and form those misconceptions to the point that they become a common belief. Men spoiling it for other men is a classic example - it's oft quoted on the forums and usually as something to blame for a perceived "lack of success" or as a means of white knighting to an extent. I *do* think that the abundance of men that don't get the site and who are abusive, or send cock pics, or just approach things completely the wrong way *can* cause some to put their guard up a little and even in some cases block single men from messaging and do their own searching, but invariably the decent guys (and there are many of them) shine through and aren't impacted in the slightest, they go about their Fab business quietly and without fuss and have a great time - but because they don't tend to shout it from the rooftops, the misconception about guys generally having a hard time of it here continues to be propagated." You have such a wonderful way with words. Entirely agree with all of this! X | |||
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"...that the behaviour of other single men reflects badly on them? Catchy title, right? I often see comments on the forums about the behaviour of some single men giving them all a bad name by association. Speaking from a woman's perspective, the opposite is true! The guys who speak to you like a person rather than a piece of meat or the property of your other half stand out a mile. So really, they're doing you a favour by being dickish
What are everyone's opinions and experiences?
Mrs TMN x"I completely get your point but it's kind of mute unless there is an attraction there to begin with, otherwise why would a woman bother past courtesy and politeness? | |||
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"I think they say it as a way of ingratiating themselves with the rest of the forum. Because they think that is what people want to hear." | |||
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"...that the behaviour of other single men reflects badly on them? Catchy title, right? I often see comments on the forums about the behaviour of some single men giving them all a bad name by association. Speaking from a woman's perspective, the opposite is true! The guys who speak to you like a person rather than a piece of meat or the property of your other half stand out a mile. So really, they're doing you a favour by being dickish
What are everyone's opinions and experiences?
Mrs TMN x
I completely get your point but it's kind of mute unless there is an attraction there to begin with, otherwise why would a woman bother past courtesy and politeness?"I don't think it's a moot point - I was trying to say that not all women (i.e. me!) think all men are dicks because of the behaviour of some men. Attraction is a whole other thread | |||
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"I'm quite capable of tarnishing my own reputation, thank you very much..." | |||
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"I was talking about this recently and I think there are a lot of misconceptions on the site and part of that is down to we tend to hear more about negative experiences than we do the good ones, so the negative one stand out, and form those misconceptions to the point that they become a common belief. Men spoiling it for other men is a classic example - it's oft quoted on the forums and usually as something to blame for a perceived "lack of success" or as a means of white knighting to an extent. I *do* think that the abundance of men that don't get the site and who are abusive, or send cock pics, or just approach things completely the wrong way *can* cause some to put their guard up a little and even in some cases block single men from messaging and do their own searching, but invariably the decent guys (and there are many of them) shine through and aren't impacted in the slightest, they go about their Fab business quietly and without fuss and have a great time - but because they don't tend to shout it from the rooftops, the misconception about guys generally having a hard time of it here continues to be propagated." I agree with this, I also think that comparison plays a part too; the belief that women and couples receive lots of attention and can potentially have their pick of partners, make many guys feel that they're missing out. | |||
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"I agree with this, I also think that comparison plays a part too; the belief that women and couples receive lots of attention and can potentially have their pick of partners, make many guys feel that they're missing out. " Very good point (as per) but I'd expand that by saying often it's comparison to other guys at the root of it - how often do we see threads saying something like "Do I need to be toned and well hung to get a meet?" If people stopped worrying about the actions and experiences of others and focused on their own interaction they'd be a lot happier | |||
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"I agree with this, I also think that comparison plays a part too; the belief that women and couples receive lots of attention and can potentially have their pick of partners, make many guys feel that they're missing out. Very good point (as per) but I'd expand that by saying often it's comparison to other guys at the root of it - how often do we see threads saying something like "Do I need to be toned and well hung to get a meet?" If people stopped worrying about the actions and experiences of others and focused on their own interaction they'd be a lot happier "Isn't that a general rule for life? To use a cliché, comparison is the thief of joy.
You do you. Nobody else is as good at it as you  | |||
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"I agree with this, I also think that comparison plays a part too; the belief that women and couples receive lots of attention and can potentially have their pick of partners, make many guys feel that they're missing out. Very good point (as per) but I'd expand that by saying often it's comparison to other guys at the root of it - how often do we see threads saying something like "Do I need to be toned and well hung to get a meet?" If people stopped worrying about the actions and experiences of others and focused on their own interaction they'd be a lot happier
Isn't that a general rule for life? To use a cliché, comparison is the thief of joy.
You do you. Nobody else is as good at it as you "Exactly - the thing is, all too often here, the "general rules for life" seem to get forgotten about (and not just that one) - because it's on-line, because it's a "sex site" - yet they are just as key here, if not more so, than in person. It's like when guys come on saying they can't get a meet and say they've sent countless messages without response - they've lost site of the basic rules of attraction that apply in real life - of the people you encounter each and every day there are probably less than 5% you find attractive, and of those an even smaller percentage will actually be compatible with you and find you attractive too - yet here the expectation of many is that the percentages of attraction will be a lot higher than that. | |||
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"I agree with this, I also think that comparison plays a part too; the belief that women and couples receive lots of attention and can potentially have their pick of partners, make many guys feel that they're missing out. Very good point (as per) but I'd expand that by saying often it's comparison to other guys at the root of it - how often do we see threads saying something like "Do I need to be toned and well hung to get a meet?" If people stopped worrying about the actions and experiences of others and focused on their own interaction they'd be a lot happier
Isn't that a general rule for life? To use a cliché, comparison is the thief of joy.
You do you. Nobody else is as good at it as you
Exactly - the thing is, all too often here, the "general rules for life" seem to get forgotten about (and not just that one) - because it's on-line, because it's a "sex site" - yet they are just as key here, if not more so, than in person.
It's like when guys come on saying they can't get a meet and say they've sent countless messages without response - they've lost site of the basic rules of attraction that apply in real life - of the people you encounter each and every day there are probably less than 5% you find attractive, and of those an even smaller percentage will actually be compatible with you and find you attractive too - yet here the expectation of many is that the percentages of attraction will be a lot higher than that."Yes yes yes! X | |||
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"We see it as White Knighting. The don't really think that, they just hope to impress the women with how woke that are. It's quite insulting that they think women will fall for it actually I honestly think some do! Just to play devils advocate. I understand your point, but that means, those who are white Knights, as you put it, are buggered any which way. My point is, some guys on here are genuinely decent and respectful. Please don't take this as a dig, but it kind of proves the point about tarring with the same brush
Sorry, not quite sure what you mean - are you saying that any guy who is decent and respectful is a white knight? I think the previous poster meant that guys who call other guys out for poor behaviour are white knighting cos they're trying to get their leg over?
I don't think either statement is true, for what it's worth "I think I understand what diamond is getting at, if I'm right (please correct me if I've misunderstood) it's something I've encountered too. So, to use myself as an example: Socio-politically I'm an outspoken liberal and a proud feminist. As we all know, the world is absolutely festering with hate at the moment, be it neo-nazis at football matches or r**e threats against celebrities for speaking up on women's issues. I think it's important to challenge this sort of behaviour and rhetoric, ignoring it fosters an environment where hateful invective is normalised and unremarkable, and in that environment hatred spreads. So, I try when I can to challenge this sort of thing, to correct misconceptions and outright lies and offer counter-opinions to balance out the hate where I reasonably can. Not necessarily on Fab, I mean social media in general. (Bear with me, I am getting to the point!) So I'll often find, for example, that if I try to call out overtly misogynist bullshit I'll get shouted down and accused of "white nightingale." If I challenge islamophobic misinformation I'm called a "virtue signaller" and brushed aside as beneath contempt. (Not all the time, but we're speaking hypothetically remember) Now, I most certainly concede that "White Knighting" and "Virtue Signalling" are genuine issues in themselves, but that isn't why I enter into these discussions. (If four blokes are discussing how so-and-so 'needs a dick in her mouth to shut her up' which one of you do you think I'm trying to shag by calling you out you mad bastards?!) I think the point Diamond is trying to make is that the proliferation of white-knight virtue-signalling out there means that those of us genuinely trying to call out unacceptable behaviours can sometimes get labelled as such, which frustratingly brings us full circle to the 'tarring with the same brush' non-issue that started the debate in the first place! | |||
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"I agree with this, I also think that comparison plays a part too; the belief that women and couples receive lots of attention and can potentially have their pick of partners, make many guys feel that they're missing out. Very good point (as per) but I'd expand that by saying often it's comparison to other guys at the root of it - how often do we see threads saying something like "Do I need to be toned and well hung to get a meet?" If people stopped worrying about the actions and experiences of others and focused on their own interaction they'd be a lot happier
Isn't that a general rule for life? To use a cliché, comparison is the thief of joy.
You do you. Nobody else is as good at it as you
Exactly - the thing is, all too often here, the "general rules for life" seem to get forgotten about (and not just that one) - because it's on-line, because it's a "sex site" - yet they are just as key here, if not more so, than in person.
It's like when guys come on saying they can't get a meet and say they've sent countless messages without response - they've lost site of the basic rules of attraction that apply in real life - of the people you encounter each and every day there are probably less than 5% you find attractive, and of those an even smaller percentage will actually be compatible with you and find you attractive too - yet here the expectation of many is that the percentages of attraction will be a lot higher than that."Good point and well made, sir! | |||
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"We see it as White Knighting. The don't really think that, they just hope to impress the women with how woke that are. It's quite insulting that they think women will fall for it actually I honestly think some do! Just to play devils advocate. I understand your point, but that means, those who are white Knights, as you put it, are buggered any which way. My point is, some guys on here are genuinely decent and respectful. Please don't take this as a dig, but it kind of proves the point about tarring with the same brush
Sorry, not quite sure what you mean - are you saying that any guy who is decent and respectful is a white knight? I think the previous poster meant that guys who call other guys out for poor behaviour are white knighting cos they're trying to get their leg over?
I don't think either statement is true, for what it's worth
I think I understand what diamond is getting at, if I'm right (please correct me if I've misunderstood) it's something I've encountered too. So, to use myself as an example: Socio-politically I'm an outspoken liberal and a proud feminist. As we all know, the world is absolutely festering with hate at the moment, be it neo-nazis at football matches or r**e threats against celebrities for speaking up on women's issues. I think it's important to challenge this sort of behaviour and rhetoric, ignoring it fosters an environment where hateful invective is normalised and unremarkable, and in that environment hatred spreads. So, I try when I can to challenge this sort of thing, to correct misconceptions and outright lies and offer counter-opinions to balance out the hate where I reasonably can. Not necessarily on Fab, I mean social media in general. (Bear with me, I am getting to the point!)
So I'll often find, for example, that if I try to call out overtly misogynist bullshit I'll get shouted down and accused of "white nightingale." If I challenge islamophobic misinformation I'm called a "virtue signaller" and brushed aside as beneath contempt. (Not all the time, but we're speaking hypothetically remember) Now, I most certainly concede that "White Knighting" and "Virtue Signalling" are genuine issues in themselves, but that isn't why I enter into these discussions. (If four blokes are discussing how so-and-so 'needs a dick in her mouth to shut her up' which one of you do you think I'm trying to shag by calling you out you mad bastards?!)
I think the point Diamond is trying to make is that the proliferation of white-knight virtue-signalling out there means that those of us genuinely trying to call out unacceptable behaviours can sometimes get labelled as such, which frustratingly brings us full circle to the 'tarring with the same brush' non-issue that started the debate in the first place! "Absolutely this! I was reading the thread intending to post pretty much this exact comment. To put it somewhat succinctly, if I see someone behaving poorly and call them on it, why am I suddenly assumed to be doing so for my own ends? | |||
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" Absolutely this! I was reading the thread intending to post pretty much this exact comment. To put it somewhat succinctly, if I see someone behaving poorly and call them on it, why am I suddenly assumed to be doing so for my own ends?" It makes people feel better for ignoring or being part of bad behaviour. Perhaps they are also just projecting their own thoughts as well? White knighting and cool girling ... everyone just chasing a shag or approval It's a cynical view of people  | |||
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" Absolutely this! I was reading the thread intending to post pretty much this exact comment. To put it somewhat succinctly, if I see someone behaving poorly and call them on it, why am I suddenly assumed to be doing so for my own ends?" Frustratingly though, I think the original comment about these "why do other men do this..." posts being white-knighting is entirely correct! | |||
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" Absolutely this! I was reading the thread intending to post pretty much this exact comment. To put it somewhat succinctly, if I see someone behaving poorly and call them on it, why am I suddenly assumed to be doing so for my own ends?" With apologies to WW for cutting out his excellent post but trying to save scroll space
The trouble is terms like "white knight" and "virtue signaller" have come to have dual uses - the first to rightly call out people that are obviously saying something to garner a positive reaction or impression of themselves - the other to be used as a form of insult towards people genuinely standing up for what they believe in, and in some instances an accusation of either is actually the person throwing the term out trying to get some gain for themselves by doing so.
The difficulty is distinguishing between the intentions of the person those labels are applied to.
Personally I will always stand up for what I believe in and let others interpret my intentions (which is often wrongly) - rather that than hold my tongue on something I feel strongly about. If people want to think I'm seeking to gain something by doing so, they obviously don't know me very well, and therefore are of no consequence to me. | |||
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" Absolutely this! I was reading the thread intending to post pretty much this exact comment. To put it somewhat succinctly, if I see someone behaving poorly and call them on it, why am I suddenly assumed to be doing so for my own ends? With apologies to WW for cutting out his excellent post but trying to save scroll space
The trouble is terms like "white knight" and "virtue signaller" have come to have dual uses - the first to rightly call out people that are obviously saying something to garner a positive reaction or impression of themselves - the other to be used as a form of insult towards people genuinely standing up for what they believe in, and in some instances an accusation of either is actually the person throwing the term out trying to get some gain for themselves by doing so.
The difficulty is distinguishing between the intentions of the person those labels are applied to.
Personally I will always stand up for what I believe in and let others interpret my intentions (which is often wrongly) - rather that than hold my tongue on something I feel strongly about. If people want to think I'm seeking to gain something by doing so, they obviously don't know me very well, and therefore are of no consequence to me."Apology accepted and approved. And at the risk of derailing THIS post by focusing on a tangent point: I'd agree with your stance to a certain extent, but it still does bother me! Not because I'm hurt by the affront to my character, but because as a pejorative these terms are being used - often very effectively - to dismiss valid and crucial points that would otherwise efficiently contradict and disprove whatever bullshit I'm calling out. | |||
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" I'd agree with your stance to a certain extent, but it still does bother me! Not because I'm hurt by the affront to my character, but because as a pejorative these terms are being used - often very effectively - to dismiss valid and crucial points that would otherwise efficiently contradict and disprove whatever bullshit I'm calling out." I think the thing is - most rational and level headed people are able to differentiate between when someone is "white knighting" for effect and attention and when someone is genuinely standing up for a cause - and those that don't probably wouldn't accept your points anyway - so I'm not sure it does detract from those points really. | |||
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" I'd agree with your stance to a certain extent, but it still does bother me! Not because I'm hurt by the affront to my character, but because as a pejorative these terms are being used - often very effectively - to dismiss valid and crucial points that would otherwise efficiently contradict and disprove whatever bullshit I'm calling out. I think the thing is - most rational and level headed people are able to differentiate between when someone is "white knighting" for effect and attention and when someone is genuinely standing up for a cause - and those that don't probably wouldn't accept your points anyway - so I'm not sure it does detract from those points really." I would suggest that the “takeaway” from all this is to be true to your own convictions, fight the good fight where you can, and the haters can naff off. | |||
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"Guys who say it have a point as some single males do spoil things for them. They drive any women off fab. They reduce the percentage of messages replied to even if its only a no thanks. They make people cautious about meeting people." | |||
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"Guys who say it have a point as some single males do spoil things for them. They drive any women off fab. They reduce the percentage of messages replied to even if its only a no thanks. They make people cautious about meeting people." As I said further up though - how often does that *actually* happen though (and acknowledging that once is too often) whilst I don't disagree it happens, I think an element of skewed perception comes into it too because we tend to hear a lot more about negative experiences than positive ones (women whose Fab experience is mostly pleasant and fulfils their needs or men who just quietly go about their Fab business getting meets and finding the site meets their expectations). Of course the abusive and entitled men can cause people to put their guards up or in the worst cases, leave the site - but they are not spoiling it for other decent guys (who will still carry on getting meets and enjoying their experience of the site etc regardless) they're just spoiling it for themselves and the people they are abusive towards, but not directly other guys. | |||
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but invariably they give me negative feedback about the site. | |||
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"It happens a lot in my personal experience of the site. I know a few women who only stayed a week, plenty who deactivated the profile as they were so pissed off, a few like me who just block messages from single men. Why aren't there more single women using fab? I always recommend it to my sex-obsessed fellow single women but invariably they give me negative feedback about the site. "And that is of course very sad and not the way it should be at all - but, to come back to the OP, it's their experience of the site that has been spoiled by others not other decent users experience of it. Yes, it could be argued that less women here means less available to meet - but for me that would be quite a derogatory way to look at and reduces things to almost a "cattle market" mentality. | |||
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" I'd agree with your stance to a certain extent, but it still does bother me! Not because I'm hurt by the affront to my character, but because as a pejorative these terms are being used - often very effectively - to dismiss valid and crucial points that would otherwise efficiently contradict and disprove whatever bullshit I'm calling out. I think the thing is - most rational and level headed people are able to differentiate between when someone is "white knighting" for effect and attention and when someone is genuinely standing up for a cause - and those that don't probably wouldn't accept your points anyway - so I'm not sure it does detract from those points really. I would suggest that the “takeaway” from all this is to be true to your own convictions, fight the good fight where you can, and the haters can naff off. "Reading this all now and glad I waited before coming back on your points - you've come round to where I am! You do you. Speak up when you want to. Call out shitty behaviour. Don't let other people put you off by shouting you down as white knighting, virtue signalling, currying favour or any of that shit. The people who get you will see your true intentions, and those who don't, aren't your people. X | |||
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"err, may be because it is repeated endlessly in the forum by couples and single women. When I was playing and chatted to couples, the main reason they had stopped or reduced playing with single men was the behaviour of other single men. " Is it, though? Maybe I'm remarkably tolerant and/or lucky. We can see pretty quickly which guys are going to be for us and which aren't. No drama, no aggro. I'd also reiterate the point made earlier (sorry can't remember who by) that people are more likely to shout about their bad experiences than their good ones. So the forums are, by their very nature, skewed to the negative. | |||
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"I have been on and off here for 5 years. In that time being polite respectful and courteous I have had ZERO meetings. Tomorrow I leave for good. I have never once been rude or crude to any couple or woman. The amount of abuse I have received in return is massive. I have been accused of everything can imagine and more. I am married and I state this from the start. My wife has no physical, emotional or psychological need for sex well I do. I have permission to play with discretion. Some people on here are simply nasty pieces of crap. I am not. It's no loss to anyone reading this but honestly to me some of the stuff said to me and some judgements cast down were exceedingly hurtful " Nobody should receive abuse, it should be reported. But you won’t need to do this anymore as you said you’re leaving. Good luck. | |||
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