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"and us Nurses will have to pick up the peices as per usual " then i will listen and get ill immediately..... | |||
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"and us Nurses will have to pick up the peices as per usual " First time in 40 years apprently | |||
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"With doctors due to vote on strike action I wonder if we will be advised to get ill in the next couple of weeks " | |||
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"I could go into a major rant about docs but i wont lol "Nurses moaning about doctors how unusual  | |||
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"wtf have doctor's got to strike about! Isn't £90k a year enough?? "They having a go about conditions and how nhs is run me thinks  | |||
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"wtf have doctor's got to strike about! Isn't £90k a year enough?? "Where do you get £90,000 from more ill informed info from central office all doctors are not GPs and again it's not about pay - it's pensions - and it will be a strike - but emergency and urgent case will be dealt with | |||
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"wtf have doctor's got to strike about! Isn't £90k a year enough??
Where do you get £90,000 from more ill informed info from central office all doctors are not GPs and again it's not about pay - it's pensions - and it will be a strike - but emergency and urgent case will be dealt with "doctors on less than the average wage then? thought not. gold plated pensions not enough either? jesus, the only thing i can think of why doctors would need to strike about is they dont get the holidays teachers get, but then they have their marking!!! | |||
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"wtf have doctor's got to strike about! Isn't £90k a year enough??
Where do you get £90,000 from more ill informed info from central office all doctors are not GPs and again it's not about pay - it's pensions - and it will be a strike - but emergency and urgent case will be dealt with
doctors on less than the average wage then?
thought not.
gold plated pensions not enough either?
jesus, the only thing i can think of why doctors would need to strike about is they dont get the holidays teachers get, but then they have their marking!!!"Do you know anything about it - thought not  | |||
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"wtf have doctor's got to strike about! Isn't £90k a year enough??
Where do you get £90,000 from more ill informed info from central office all doctors are not GPs and again it's not about pay - it's pensions - and it will be a strike - but emergency and urgent case will be dealt with
doctors on less than the average wage then?
thought not.
gold plated pensions not enough either?
jesus, the only thing i can think of why doctors would need to strike about is they dont get the holidays teachers get, but then they have their marking!!!
Do you know anything about it - thought not "bestow on me your great knowledge oh mighty one. if you are a doctor, how have you time to be on here? thought you were overworked and underpaid | |||
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"wtf have doctor's got to strike about! Isn't £90k a year enough??
Where do you get £90,000 from more ill informed info from central office all doctors are not GPs and again it's not about pay - it's pensions - and it will be a strike - but emergency and urgent case will be dealt with "Ah right, so it's their silver-plated pensions they're trying to protect. The instant people start dying because a doctor isn't there to treat them is when you'll see strikes by nurses and doctors outlawed, same as army personnel. | |||
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" The sad perception is that austerity applies to the ordinary citizen, not the elite. We're being made to suffer for the mistakes of the rich. Yet it is the rich who continue to coin it in - bonuses, tax cuts - while ordinary folks are made to work longer for less. The government is stuffed full of millionaires who think the ordinary person has a garage, holds dinner parties and earns £50k a year. " yet i do not have a full time job (rather work full time hours through an agency) dont earn anywhere near that dont have a pension to come, yet i have NO intention to strike as i LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD AND KNOW THE MONEY JUST ISNT THERE.. but then again, the government always have money because saps like us pay our taxes, so why not give the doctors bigger pensions..... | |||
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"wtf have doctor's got to strike about! Isn't £90k a year enough??
Where do you get £90,000 from more ill informed info from central office all doctors are not GPs and again it's not about pay - it's pensions - and it will be a strike - but emergency and urgent case will be dealt with
doctors on less than the average wage then?
thought not.
gold plated pensions not enough either?
jesus, the only thing i can think of why doctors would need to strike about is they dont get the holidays teachers get, but then they have their marking!!!
Do you know anything about it - thought not
bestow on me your great knowledge oh mighty one.
if you are a doctor, how have you time to be on here? thought you were overworked and underpaid"Simply use google and you wil find out that 90,000 is the very top end of earnings for doctors If you average it out they earn the same as petrol tanker drivers and that's after 7 years training and at the top end Consultants are being asked to take a third cut in their pensions pay more into it and work longer - Doctors in the UK are paid less than their equivelents in most developed countries - and newly qualified junior doctors get paid pro rata the same as a cashier in a bank | |||
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" The sad perception is that austerity applies to the ordinary citizen, not the elite. We're being made to suffer for the mistakes of the rich. Yet it is the rich who continue to coin it in - bonuses, tax cuts - while ordinary folks are made to work longer for less. The government is stuffed full of millionaires who think the ordinary person has a garage, holds dinner parties and earns £50k a year. " Most of the Labour Cabinet were Oxbridge educated and came from affluent families. It's not just Tories who are rich you know. | |||
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" Most of the Labour Cabinet were Oxbridge educated and came from affluent families. It's not just Tories who are rich you know." I'm sure that's true. But I'm talking about perception of the current elite. I doubt if any of them know the price of a pint of milk or the cost of a bus fare. None of them has the common touch that makes people believe their motto - we're all in this together. Not. | |||
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" Most of the Labour Cabinet were Oxbridge educated and came from affluent families. It's not just Tories who are rich you know. I'm sure that's true. But I'm talking about perception of the current elite. I doubt if any of them know the price of a pint of milk or the cost of a bus fare. None of them has the common touch that makes people believe their motto - we're all in this together. Not." Ah right, ok then. I understand now. Champagne Socialists still know how much a pint of milk is but toffee-nosed rich kids don't. I'd have a lot more respect for socialists who stick to their so called beliefs, and not give up their principals (if they had any) for the lure of the pound a la Tony Blair and his very shady Middle East company that nobody can dig up any accounts for as it's so well hidden (protected?). | |||
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"With doctors due to vote on strike action I wonder if we will be advised to get ill in the next couple of weeks "No but i hope you are all filling jerry cans with penicillin | |||
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" Most of the Labour Cabinet were Oxbridge educated and came from affluent families. It's not just Tories who are rich you know. I'm sure that's true. But I'm talking about perception of the current elite. I doubt if any of them know the price of a pint of milk or the cost of a bus fare. None of them has the common touch that makes people believe their motto - we're all in this together. Not. Ah right, ok then. I understand now. Champagne Socialists still know how much a pint of milk is but toffee-nosed rich kids don't. I'd have a lot more respect for socialists who stick to their so called beliefs, and not give up their principals (if they had any) for the lure of the pound a la Tony Blair and his very shady Middle East company that nobody can dig up any accounts for as it's so well hidden (protected?)." Thats because they aren't socialists | |||
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"us Nurses would never compromise patients Health and/or treatment. " Nurse's do not have a monopoly on patient care and compassion. The arrogance with which some nurses throw that around is quite astounding. That your profession is disappearing as most of your role is given to health care assistants and your being reduced to supervisors and chart-checkers should be worrying to you. " yet i do not have a full time job (rather work full time hours through an agency) dont earn anywhere near that dont have a pension to come, yet i have NO intention to strike as i LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD AND KNOW THE MONEY JUST ISNT THERE.. but then again, the government always have money because saps like us pay our taxes, so why not give the doctors bigger pensions....." Yes that's right capitals make that point true. There is money, the NHS pension scheme is solvent a fact not widely reported in the media. Doctors dont want bigger pensions they want the ones they signed up for. If you'd signed a contract and suddenly they changed the rules halfway through wouldnt you be pissed off? The change in inflation index (oddly doesnt apply to MPs pensions) reduces the value, the retirement age is going up (and set to go up higher) to the point it may be dangerous for people to continue working both for there own and patients safety, yet if you retire "early" even after paying in for 40 years the value of your pension diminishes rapidly. I hardly see how your working preferences are of use to this discussion, you made your choices in life you have to live with the benefits/consequences of it Agency work obviously has some benefits to it for you otherwise you wouldn't do it. | |||
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" Doctors dont want bigger pensions they want the ones they signed up for. If you'd signed a contract and suddenly they changed the rules halfway through wouldnt you be pissed off? The change in inflation index (oddly doesnt apply to MPs pensions) reduces the value, the retirement age is going up (and set to go up higher) to the point it may be dangerous for people to continue working both for there own and patients safety, yet if you retire "early" even after paying in for 40 years the value of your pension diminishes rapidly. " Everyone wants the pension they signed up for but it ain't happening. Times change and it is too expensive for National Insurance to fund public sector pensions so teachers, doctors etc are all going to have to accept reduced pensions like everyone else. | |||
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"wasnt everyones pension screwed by your glorious mcBroon and his stooges? havent seen the ENTIRE population of the country come out on strike (mind, probably wil now seeing as the tories are in, and we know everything that has happened since thatcher was in charge is her fault, and now its all 'call me dave's' faults) labour did nothingwrong in some eyes." Wasn't my McBroon, I grew up with Labour thus making them tainted in my eyes. They still haven't gained my trust. The thing that annoys me most, is all the people who work in the private sector that sit behind keyboards and cry about how hard there life is, about how Brown stole there pensions and about how people in the public sector "have it easy" and how they're all paid too much. You know what, its all there own fault. They didnt want to pay there union dues, so they have no unions. They were promised rich rewards, so they took shit working conditions. When the owners of the firms closed the pension schemes after misinvesting the money they just grumbled to themselves in a passive aggressive way and blamed it all on someone else, the public sector. They rolled over and took the shafting they were given for greed and now its coming back to haunt them and all they can do is blame people that gradually over the years negotiated and worked hard to get better terms and conditions, turned up to the union meetings after work, paid there dues and went about life quietly. They brought into the dream that they could all have fancy cars, big houses. They all thought they could be high flying city superstar employees, but someone has to be a cleaner on a modest salary. Its the same dream that has been around for pretty much all of human history, its short sighted. It didnt work then and it wont work now. Its a trap and it stops people on low paid jobs aspiring to make life in that job better because they think a better job where perks will fall out of the sky is just around the corner. If people want a better lot in life they need to band together but the rich and powerful don't do freebies, if you want better pay or terms and conditions you have to fight them for it. | |||
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" Doctors dont want bigger pensions they want the ones they signed up for. If you'd signed a contract and suddenly they changed the rules halfway through wouldnt you be pissed off? The change in inflation index (oddly doesnt apply to MPs pensions) reduces the value, the retirement age is going up (and set to go up higher) to the point it may be dangerous for people to continue working both for there own and patients safety, yet if you retire "early" even after paying in for 40 years the value of your pension diminishes rapidly. Everyone wants the pension they signed up for but it ain't happening. Times change and it is too expensive for National Insurance to fund public sector pensions so teachers, doctors etc are all going to have to accept reduced pensions like everyone else. " You missed the point about them being solvent. They arent paid for through national insurance, they are paid for through employee and employer contributions. | |||
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"wasnt everyones pension screwed by your glorious mcBroon and his stooges? havent seen the ENTIRE population of the country come out on strike (mind, probably wil now seeing as the tories are in, and we know everything that has happened since thatcher was in charge is her fault, and now its all 'call me dave's' faults) labour did nothingwrong in some eyes. Wasn't my McBroon, I grew up with Labour thus making them tainted in my eyes. They still haven't gained my trust. The thing that annoys me most, is all the people who work in the private sector that sit behind keyboards and cry about how hard there life is, about how Brown stole there pensions and about how people in the public sector "have it easy" and how they're all paid too much. You know what, its all there own fault. They didnt want to pay there union dues, so they have no unions. They were promised rich rewards, so they took shit working conditions. When the owners of the firms closed the pension schemes after misinvesting the money they just grumbled to themselves in a passive aggressive way and blamed it all on someone else, the public sector. They rolled over and took the shafting they were given for greed and now its coming back to haunt them and all they can do is blame people that gradually over the years negotiated and worked hard to get better terms and conditions, turned up to the union meetings after work, paid there dues and went about life quietly. They brought into the dream that they could all have fancy cars, big houses. They all thought they could be high flying city superstar employees, but someone has to be a cleaner on a modest salary. Its the same dream that has been around for pretty much all of human history, its short sighted. It didnt work then and it wont work now. Its a trap and it stops people on low paid jobs aspiring to make life in that job better because they think a better job where perks will fall out of the sky is just around the corner. If people want a better lot in life they need to band together but the rich and powerful don't do freebies, if you want better pay or terms and conditions you have to fight them for it." Oh so slightly naive and disingenuous there Excession. | |||
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" Doctors dont want bigger pensions they want the ones they signed up for. If you'd signed a contract and suddenly they changed the rules halfway through wouldnt you be pissed off? The change in inflation index (oddly doesnt apply to MPs pensions) reduces the value, the retirement age is going up (and set to go up higher) to the point it may be dangerous for people to continue working both for there own and patients safety, yet if you retire "early" even after paying in for 40 years the value of your pension diminishes rapidly. Everyone wants the pension they signed up for but it ain't happening. Times change and it is too expensive for National Insurance to fund public sector pensions so teachers, doctors etc are all going to have to accept reduced pensions like everyone else. You missed the point about them being solvent. They arent paid for through national insurance, they are paid for through employee and employer contributions." Do not even try to explain on here how pensions are funded and what NI pays for...i seriously believe some people think there is a small box in the treasury with their name on it . | |||
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"wasnt everyones pension screwed by your glorious mcBroon and his stooges? havent seen the ENTIRE population of the country come out on strike (mind, probably wil now seeing as the tories are in, and we know everything that has happened since thatcher was in charge is her fault, and now its all 'call me dave's' faults) labour did nothingwrong in some eyes. Wasn't my McBroon, I grew up with Labour thus making them tainted in my eyes. They still haven't gained my trust. The thing that annoys me most, is all the people who work in the private sector that sit behind keyboards and cry about how hard there life is, about how Brown stole there pensions and about how people in the public sector "have it easy" and how they're all paid too much. You know what, its all there own fault. They didnt want to pay there union dues, so they have no unions. They were promised rich rewards, so they took shit working conditions. When the owners of the firms closed the pension schemes after misinvesting the money they just grumbled to themselves in a passive aggressive way and blamed it all on someone else, the public sector. They rolled over and took the shafting they were given for greed and now its coming back to haunt them and all they can do is blame people that gradually over the years negotiated and worked hard to get better terms and conditions, turned up to the union meetings after work, paid there dues and went about life quietly. They brought into the dream that they could all have fancy cars, big houses. They all thought they could be high flying city superstar employees, but someone has to be a cleaner on a modest salary. Its the same dream that has been around for pretty much all of human history, its short sighted. It didnt work then and it wont work now. Its a trap and it stops people on low paid jobs aspiring to make life in that job better because they think a better job where perks will fall out of the sky is just around the corner. If people want a better lot in life they need to band together but the rich and powerful don't do freebies, if you want better pay or terms and conditions you have to fight them for it. Oh so slightly naive and disingenuous there Excession." Not at all. Exactly where have i been naive? your the fount of all knowledge and wisdom on industrial relations then? | |||
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"wasnt everyones pension screwed by your glorious mcBroon and his stooges? havent seen the ENTIRE population of the country come out on strike (mind, probably wil now seeing as the tories are in, and we know everything that has happened since thatcher was in charge is her fault, and now its all 'call me dave's' faults) labour did nothingwrong in some eyes. Wasn't my McBroon, I grew up with Labour thus making them tainted in my eyes. They still haven't gained my trust. The thing that annoys me most, is all the people who work in the private sector that sit behind keyboards and cry about how hard there life is, about how Brown stole there pensions and about how people in the public sector "have it easy" and how they're all paid too much. You know what, its all there own fault. They didnt want to pay there union dues, so they have no unions. They were promised rich rewards, so they took shit working conditions. When the owners of the firms closed the pension schemes after misinvesting the money they just grumbled to themselves in a passive aggressive way and blamed it all on someone else, the public sector. They rolled over and took the shafting they were given for greed and now its coming back to haunt them and all they can do is blame people that gradually over the years negotiated and worked hard to get better terms and conditions, turned up to the union meetings after work, paid there dues and went about life quietly. They brought into the dream that they could all have fancy cars, big houses. They all thought they could be high flying city superstar employees, but someone has to be a cleaner on a modest salary. Its the same dream that has been around for pretty much all of human history, its short sighted. It didnt work then and it wont work now. Its a trap and it stops people on low paid jobs aspiring to make life in that job better because they think a better job where perks will fall out of the sky is just around the corner. If people want a better lot in life they need to band together but the rich and powerful don't do freebies, if you want better pay or terms and conditions you have to fight them for it. Oh so slightly naive and disingenuous there Excession. Not at all. Exactly where have i been naive? your the fount of all knowledge and wisdom on industrial relations then?" Mot at all on industrial relations but i know more about NHS/PCT remuneration and pensions than you can imagine. And they are certainly not all fully funded and solvent. Many are not funded at all, only from future fiscal receipts. | |||
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"wasnt everyones pension screwed by your glorious mcBroon and his stooges? havent seen the ENTIRE population of the country come out on strike (mind, probably wil now seeing as the tories are in, and we know everything that has happened since thatcher was in charge is her fault, and now its all 'call me dave's' faults) labour did nothingwrong in some eyes. Wasn't my McBroon, I grew up with Labour thus making them tainted in my eyes. They still haven't gained my trust. The thing that annoys me most, is all the people who work in the private sector that sit behind keyboards and cry about how hard there life is, about how Brown stole there pensions and about how people in the public sector "have it easy" and how they're all paid too much. You know what, its all there own fault. They didnt want to pay there union dues, so they have no unions. They were promised rich rewards, so they took shit working conditions. When the owners of the firms closed the pension schemes after misinvesting the money they just grumbled to themselves in a passive aggressive way and blamed it all on someone else, the public sector. They rolled over and took the shafting they were given for greed and now its coming back to haunt them and all they can do is blame people that gradually over the years negotiated and worked hard to get better terms and conditions, turned up to the union meetings after work, paid there dues and went about life quietly. They brought into the dream that they could all have fancy cars, big houses. They all thought they could be high flying city superstar employees, but someone has to be a cleaner on a modest salary. Its the same dream that has been around for pretty much all of human history, its short sighted. It didnt work then and it wont work now. Its a trap and it stops people on low paid jobs aspiring to make life in that job better because they think a better job where perks will fall out of the sky is just around the corner. If people want a better lot in life they need to band together but the rich and powerful don't do freebies, if you want better pay or terms and conditions you have to fight them for it. Oh so slightly naive and disingenuous there Excession. Not at all. Exactly where have i been naive? your the fount of all knowledge and wisdom on industrial relations then? Mot at all on industrial relations but i know more about NHS/PCT remuneration and pensions than you can imagine. And they are certainly not all fully funded and solvent. Many are not funded at all, only from future fiscal receipts. " I spent that much time reading about them before the strikes that i have a fair idea about them. So how come in its official report the NHS pension service announced it was paying in £2billion a year more than it was paying out of government coffers? and that has been happening since the outset. The money paid in is to be invested by the government to grow the economy and pay for future liabilities but its paid for by the next generation of public sector employees and there contributions. | |||
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"wasnt everyones pension screwed by your glorious mcBroon and his stooges? havent seen the ENTIRE population of the country come out on strike (mind, probably wil now seeing as the tories are in, and we know everything that has happened since thatcher was in charge is her fault, and now its all 'call me dave's' faults) labour did nothingwrong in some eyes. Wasn't my McBroon, I grew up with Labour thus making them tainted in my eyes. They still haven't gained my trust. The thing that annoys me most, is all the people who work in the private sector that sit behind keyboards and cry about how hard there life is, about how Brown stole there pensions and about how people in the public sector "have it easy" and how they're all paid too much. You know what, its all there own fault. They didnt want to pay there union dues, so they have no unions. They were promised rich rewards, so they took shit working conditions. When the owners of the firms closed the pension schemes after misinvesting the money they just grumbled to themselves in a passive aggressive way and blamed it all on someone else, the public sector. They rolled over and took the shafting they were given for greed and now its coming back to haunt them and all they can do is blame people that gradually over the years negotiated and worked hard to get better terms and conditions, turned up to the union meetings after work, paid there dues and went about life quietly. They brought into the dream that they could all have fancy cars, big houses. They all thought they could be high flying city superstar employees, but someone has to be a cleaner on a modest salary. Its the same dream that has been around for pretty much all of human history, its short sighted. It didnt work then and it wont work now. Its a trap and it stops people on low paid jobs aspiring to make life in that job better because they think a better job where perks will fall out of the sky is just around the corner. If people want a better lot in life they need to band together but the rich and powerful don't do freebies, if you want better pay or terms and conditions you have to fight them for it. Oh so slightly naive and disingenuous there Excession. Not at all. Exactly where have i been naive? your the fount of all knowledge and wisdom on industrial relations then? Mot at all on industrial relations but i know more about NHS/PCT remuneration and pensions than you can imagine. And they are certainly not all fully funded and solvent. Many are not funded at all, only from future fiscal receipts. I spent that much time reading about them before the strikes that i have a fair idea about them. So how come in its official report the NHS pension service announced it was paying in £2billion a year more than it was paying out of government coffers? and that has been happening since the outset. The money paid in is to be invested by the government to grow the economy and pay for future liabilities but its paid for by the next generation of public sector employees and there contributions." "Paying out of government coffers". "Paid for by the next generation of public sector employees and there (sic) contributions". Hardly a fully funded pension scheme is it? | |||
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"wasnt everyones pension screwed by your glorious mcBroon and his stooges? havent seen the ENTIRE population of the country come out on strike (mind, probably wil now seeing as the tories are in, and we know everything that has happened since thatcher was in charge is her fault, and now its all 'call me dave's' faults) labour did nothingwrong in some eyes. Wasn't my McBroon, I grew up with Labour thus making them tainted in my eyes. They still haven't gained my trust. The thing that annoys me most, is all the people who work in the private sector that sit behind keyboards and cry about how hard there life is, about how Brown stole there pensions and about how people in the public sector "have it easy" and how they're all paid too much. You know what, its all there own fault. They didnt want to pay there union dues, so they have no unions. They were promised rich rewards, so they took shit working conditions. When the owners of the firms closed the pension schemes after misinvesting the money they just grumbled to themselves in a passive aggressive way and blamed it all on someone else, the public sector. They rolled over and took the shafting they were given for greed and now its coming back to haunt them and all they can do is blame people that gradually over the years negotiated and worked hard to get better terms and conditions, turned up to the union meetings after work, paid there dues and went about life quietly. They brought into the dream that they could all have fancy cars, big houses. They all thought they could be high flying city superstar employees, but someone has to be a cleaner on a modest salary. Its the same dream that has been around for pretty much all of human history, its short sighted. It didnt work then and it wont work now. Its a trap and it stops people on low paid jobs aspiring to make life in that job better because they think a better job where perks will fall out of the sky is just around the corner. If people want a better lot in life they need to band together but the rich and powerful don't do freebies, if you want better pay or terms and conditions you have to fight them for it. Oh so slightly naive and disingenuous there Excession. Not at all. Exactly where have i been naive? your the fount of all knowledge and wisdom on industrial relations then? Mot at all on industrial relations but i know more about NHS/PCT remuneration and pensions than you can imagine. And they are certainly not all fully funded and solvent. Many are not funded at all, only from future fiscal receipts. I spent that much time reading about them before the strikes that i have a fair idea about them. So how come in its official report the NHS pension service announced it was paying in £2billion a year more than it was paying out of government coffers? and that has been happening since the outset. The money paid in is to be invested by the government to grow the economy and pay for future liabilities but its paid for by the next generation of public sector employees and there contributions. "Paying out of government coffers". "Paid for by the next generation of public sector employees and there (sic) contributions". Hardly a fully funded pension scheme is it? " Yes that's right pick the words "government coffers" out and ignore that the pension scheme pays in more a year to the government than is paid out. Economic growth is funded by the current contributions, they are then paid out of the contributions of those that come after who are paid for by the returns on the previous investment. It's funded. | |||
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" PS Excession, did you not notice that by the time Gordon Brown was booted out of office in 2010 that HIS prudent governorship resulted in an annual borrowing requirement of over £150bn? Partly used to "fully fund" excessive public sector pay, perks ( including lengthy annual holidays and flexitime) and pension contributions. And you believe that will continue exponentially? " I'm aware of the budget deficit, did you realise since the ConDems have got in the deficit hasn't got smaller? Of course the deficit was all because of overspending and nothing to do with a fall in revenue due to the financial crash? Public sector pay hasnt risen above market rates, holidays aren't hugely lengthy and flexitime is rare but doesn't cost anything as the total hours are the same. Our economy isn't broke its just going through a rough patch, but it's a brilliant excuse to privatise everything and scare everyone into accepting crap. | |||
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"Wonder what would happen if all doctors and nurses went pvt :-/ I am guessing that would safe a huge amount of public funding!! For one, the rush to A&E with alcohol related problems would drop, again saving some public funds :-/ And additionally I guess the doctors would be able to earn plenty like their American colleagues and thus won't need such lucrative pensions xx" *double facepalm* words do not describe how much that comment made me cringe in horror. healthcare would cost alot more that's what would happen. It wouldn't save you any money, taxes wouldn't change but you'd pay a fortune in health insurance, Drs would probably have better pensions and pay than now but you'd pay for it with insurance premiums and not tax and for some reason people are happy with rediculous insurance costs but not bothered by modest tax costs. | |||
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"Wonder what would happen if all doctors and nurses went pvt :-/ I am guessing that would safe a huge amount of public funding!! For one, the rush to A&E with alcohol related problems would drop, again saving some public funds :-/ And additionally I guess the doctors would be able to earn plenty like their American colleagues and thus won't need such lucrative pensions xx *double facepalm* words do not describe how much that comment made me cringe in horror. healthcare would cost alot more that's what would happen. It wouldn't save you any money, taxes wouldn't change but you'd pay a fortune in health insurance, Drs would probably have better pensions and pay than now but you'd pay for it with insurance premiums and not tax and for some reason people are happy with rediculous insurance costs but not bothered by modest tax costs." We may pay more in private health insurance but the hospitals that get our money would be accountable for any fuck ups they create instead of denying responsibility for two years before being forced to admit it was their fault. Death to the NHS!! Down with the shoddy service they promised we wouldn't have! | |||
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"Wonder what would happen if all doctors and nurses went pvt :-/ I am guessing that would safe a huge amount of public funding!! For one, the rush to A&E with alcohol related problems would drop, again saving some public funds :-/ And additionally I guess the doctors would be able to earn plenty like their American colleagues and thus won't need such lucrative pensions xx *double facepalm* words do not describe how much that comment made me cringe in horror. healthcare would cost alot more that's what would happen. It wouldn't save you any money, taxes wouldn't change but you'd pay a fortune in health insurance, Drs would probably have better pensions and pay than now but you'd pay for it with insurance premiums and not tax and for some reason people are happy with rediculous insurance costs but not bothered by modest tax costs. We may pay more in private health insurance but the hospitals that get our money would be accountable for any fuck ups they create instead of denying responsibility for two years before being forced to admit it was their fault. Death to the NHS!! Down with the shoddy service they promised we wouldn't have!" think you will find YOU will pay massive premiums for your health insurance due to being involved in this chosen life style as you would be seen as more at risk of any sti or other infection. what you wouldn't tell them and risk refusal of treatment ? how many would get there healthcare through there employer ? would you want your lifestyle & sexual prefetances known to your managers ? think this won't happen look to the USA where this is happening NOW ! | |||
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"Wonder what would happen if all doctors and nurses went pvt :-/ I am guessing that would safe a huge amount of public funding!! For one, the rush to A&E with alcohol related problems would drop, again saving some public funds :-/ And additionally I guess the doctors would be able to earn plenty like their American colleagues and thus won't need such lucrative pensions xx *double facepalm* words do not describe how much that comment made me cringe in horror. healthcare would cost alot more that's what would happen. It wouldn't save you any money, taxes wouldn't change but you'd pay a fortune in health insurance, Drs would probably have better pensions and pay than now but you'd pay for it with insurance premiums and not tax and for some reason people are happy with rediculous insurance costs but not bothered by modest tax costs. We may pay more in private health insurance but the hospitals that get our money would be accountable for any fuck ups they create instead of denying responsibility for two years before being forced to admit it was their fault. Death to the NHS!! Down with the shoddy service they promised we wouldn't have!" Yes they would be accountable you would think - cue the breast implant saga and see how they dealt with that | |||
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"Yes they would be accountable you would think - cue the breast implant saga and see how they dealt with that " Why should the taxpayer, via the NHS, pay for the repair of vain women who wanted bigger boobs? The French company who made them should pay for the removal of replacement of those women affected and the EU should enforce it - but I bet they won't. Either way, it's got fuck all to do with the NHS or the taxpayer. These women who wanted bigger boobs soon found the money to pay for the initial operation so let them find the money to put it right if the company who fucked things up won't do it. All too often these days you see customers of private sector companies turning to the govt and demanding reimbursement when things go wrong. | |||
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"Yes they would be accountable you would think - cue the breast implant saga and see how they dealt with that Why should the taxpayer, via the NHS, pay for the repair of vain women who wanted bigger boobs? The French company who made them should pay for the removal of replacement of those women affected and the EU should enforce it - but I bet they won't. Either way, it's got fuck all to do with the NHS or the taxpayer. These women who wanted bigger boobs soon found the money to pay for the initial operation so let them find the money to put it right if the company who fucked things up won't do it. All too often these days you see customers of private sector companies turning to the govt and demanding reimbursement when things go wrong. " Thats the point im making the private sector has washed it hands of their mistakes and now it falls on the NHS to rescue the situation and that is the reality of private medicine - when things go pearshape they don't want to know | |||
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"Yes they would be accountable you would think - cue the breast implant saga and see how they dealt with that Why should the taxpayer, via the NHS, pay for the repair of vain women who wanted bigger boobs? The French company who made them should pay for the removal of replacement of those women affected and the EU should enforce it - but I bet they won't. Either way, it's got fuck all to do with the NHS or the taxpayer. These women who wanted bigger boobs soon found the money to pay for the initial operation so let them find the money to put it right if the company who fucked things up won't do it. All too often these days you see customers of private sector companies turning to the govt and demanding reimbursement when things go wrong. Thats the point im making the private sector has washed it hands of their mistakes and now it falls on the NHS to rescue the situation and that is the reality of private medicine - when things go pearshape they don't want to know " So the obvious answer is to leglislate that forces companies to put right the things they do wrong or face massive financial penalties that can be used to put things right. Maybe even force them to have a sluice fund for that very purpose. | |||
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"Yawn...........zzzzzzzzzzzzzz" Thank you for that insightful contribution to the discussion.  | |||
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"Yawn...........zzzzzzzzzzzzzz Thank you for that insightful contribution to the discussion. "Have to agree with you on that one | |||
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"Yawn...........zzzzzzzzzzzzzz Thank you for that insightful contribution to the discussion.
Have to agree with you on that one " | |||
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"wtf have doctor's got to strike about! Isn't £90k a year enough??
Where do you get £90,000 from more ill informed info from central office all doctors are not GPs and again it's not about pay - it's pensions - and it will be a strike - but emergency and urgent case will be dealt with
doctors on less than the average wage then?
thought not.
gold plated pensions not enough either?
jesus, the only thing i can think of why doctors would need to strike about is they dont get the holidays teachers get, but then they have their marking!!!
Do you know anything about it - thought not
bestow on me your great knowledge oh mighty one.
if you are a doctor, how have you time to be on here? thought you were overworked and underpaid
Simply use google and you wil find out that 90,000 is the very top end of earnings for doctors If you average it out they earn the same as petrol tanker drivers and that's after 7 years training and at the top end Consultants are being asked to take a third cut in their pensions pay more into it and work longer - Doctors in the UK are paid less than their equivelents in most developed countries - and newly qualified junior doctors get paid pro rata the same as a cashier in a bank "Really? My cousin has been a cashier in a bank for the last 5 years - and earns £13k. And unlike doctors has far less opportuntiy to get experience related pay rises, decent career progression, paid overtime and a pension worth more than sod all when she eventually retires. | |||
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"Well it seems people in the states are happy - Obama been trying to get something like the NHS but the people don't want their quality health care to drop down to NHS standards :-// and funny enough the doctors there seem quite happy, no body wants to strike :-// Just a thought... Cause we obviously are not happy - the doctors are not getting what they signed up for... Apart from having to study hard all their lives and working even harder under a chain of command till they become consultants :-/ and us the public not happy with them getting paid at the end of their career for a job they opted for :-/ afteall it's their choice they could have become a barber or butcher too " Obama hasn't been trying to get European style healthcare through he has been trying to get legislation through that forces everyone to buy private health insurance or get fined, so its not the same at all. Half of there population are so brainwashed that taxation and state provision are unconstitutional that they would protest against anything even if it made there lives better. The doctors dont strike because they are paid obscene salaries and private healthcare firms are notoriously vicious on strikers. | |||
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"Wonder what would happen if all doctors and nurses went pvt :-/ I am guessing that would safe a huge amount of public funding!! For one, the rush to A&E with alcohol related problems would drop, again saving some public funds :-/ And additionally I guess the doctors would be able to earn plenty like their American colleagues and thus won't need such lucrative pensions xx *double facepalm* words do not describe how much that comment made me cringe in horror. healthcare would cost alot more that's what would happen. It wouldn't save you any money, taxes wouldn't change but you'd pay a fortune in health insurance, Drs would probably have better pensions and pay than now but you'd pay for it with insurance premiums and not tax and for some reason people are happy with rediculous insurance costs but not bothered by modest tax costs. We may pay more in private health insurance but the hospitals that get our money would be accountable for any fuck ups they create instead of denying responsibility for two years before being forced to admit it was their fault. Death to the NHS!! Down with the shoddy service they promised we wouldn't have!" You would pay over twice as much per year. Currently hospitals are responsible for there fuckups, do you think a private firm would be any more likely to admit responsibility? No they would fight tooth and nail and it would probably take more than 2 years and a large amount of legal fees. As someone said, just look at the PIP saga, almost none of the private firms took responsibility for that. The NHS has been providing a much better service in recent years after 13 years of decent funding its recovered from 17 years of Tory underfunding and mismanagement. Health inequalities are starting to drop, survival rates for cancer are rapidly improving and the commonwealth fund (an american private foundation that works for better healthcare) rated the NHS second overall on efficiency, value for money and care. The NHS has half the number of senior managers that the US does, 1/2 the admin staff suffers on a fraction of the fraud the US system does and had its highest ever levels of satisfaction in 2010. That you'd be willing to accept a worse service that cost you more just to satisfy your own ideology and hatred of anything that occurs in the public sector is astounding. I believe the phrase is cut of your nose to spite your face. | |||
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"wtf have doctor's got to strike about! Isn't £90k a year enough??
Where do you get £90,000 from more ill informed info from central office all doctors are not GPs and again it's not about pay - it's pensions - and it will be a strike - but emergency and urgent case will be dealt with
doctors on less than the average wage then?
thought not.
gold plated pensions not enough either?
jesus, the only thing i can think of why doctors would need to strike about is they dont get the holidays teachers get, but then they have their marking!!!
Do you know anything about it - thought not
bestow on me your great knowledge oh mighty one.
if you are a doctor, how have you time to be on here? thought you were overworked and underpaid
Simply use google and you wil find out that 90,000 is the very top end of earnings for doctors If you average it out they earn the same as petrol tanker drivers and that's after 7 years training and at the top end Consultants are being asked to take a third cut in their pensions pay more into it and work longer - Doctors in the UK are paid less than their equivelents in most developed countries - and newly qualified junior doctors get paid pro rata the same as a cashier in a bank
Really? My cousin has been a cashier in a bank for the last 5 years - and earns £13k.
And unlike doctors has far less opportuntiy to get experience related pay rises, decent career progression, paid overtime and a pension worth more than sod all when she eventually retires.
"yes really and after doing a 5 year degree and of course they will go on and earn more but very few will get to the 90,000 which most people think they earn | |||
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"wtf have doctor's got to strike about! Isn't £90k a year enough??
Where do you get £90,000 from more ill informed info from central office all doctors are not GPs and again it's not about pay - it's pensions - and it will be a strike - but emergency and urgent case will be dealt with
doctors on less than the average wage then?
thought not.
gold plated pensions not enough either?
jesus, the only thing i can think of why doctors would need to strike about is they dont get the holidays teachers get, but then they have their marking!!!
Do you know anything about it - thought not
bestow on me your great knowledge oh mighty one.
if you are a doctor, how have you time to be on here? thought you were overworked and underpaid
Simply use google and you wil find out that 90,000 is the very top end of earnings for doctors If you average it out they earn the same as petrol tanker drivers and that's after 7 years training and at the top end Consultants are being asked to take a third cut in their pensions pay more into it and work longer - Doctors in the UK are paid less than their equivelents in most developed countries - and newly qualified junior doctors get paid pro rata the same as a cashier in a bank
Really? My cousin has been a cashier in a bank for the last 5 years - and earns £13k.
And unlike doctors has far less opportuntiy to get experience related pay rises, decent career progression, paid overtime and a pension worth more than sod all when she eventually retires.
yes really and after doing a 5 year degree and of course they will go on and earn more but very few will get to the 90,000 which most people think they earn "you forgot the 2-3 years they spend training as junior doctors and the decades they spend doing yet more courses and the continuous professional development they have to undertake to keep there knowledge up to date. | |||
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"wtf have doctor's got to strike about! Isn't £90k a year enough??
Where do you get £90,000 from more ill informed info from central office all doctors are not GPs and again it's not about pay - it's pensions - and it will be a strike - but emergency and urgent case will be dealt with
doctors on less than the average wage then?
thought not.
gold plated pensions not enough either?
jesus, the only thing i can think of why doctors would need to strike about is they dont get the holidays teachers get, but then they have their marking!!!
Do you know anything about it - thought not
bestow on me your great knowledge oh mighty one.
if you are a doctor, how have you time to be on here? thought you were overworked and underpaid
Simply use google and you wil find out that 90,000 is the very top end of earnings for doctors If you average it out they earn the same as petrol tanker drivers and that's after 7 years training and at the top end Consultants are being asked to take a third cut in their pensions pay more into it and work longer - Doctors in the UK are paid less than their equivelents in most developed countries - and newly qualified junior doctors get paid pro rata the same as a cashier in a bank
Really? My cousin has been a cashier in a bank for the last 5 years - and earns £13k.
And unlike doctors has far less opportuntiy to get experience related pay rises, decent career progression, paid overtime and a pension worth more than sod all when she eventually retires.
yes really and after doing a 5 year degree and of course they will go on and earn more but very few will get to the 90,000 which most people think they earn
you forgot the 2-3 years they spend training as junior doctors and the decades they spend doing yet more courses and the continuous professional development they have to undertake to keep there knowledge up to date."It all starts at the age of 16 to - leave it any longer than that and it's virtually impossible to get a place - as it is you have about a 5% chance of getting into medical college | |||
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"wtf have doctor's got to strike about! Isn't £90k a year enough??
Where do you get £90,000 from more ill informed info from central office all doctors are not GPs and again it's not about pay - it's pensions - and it will be a strike - but emergency and urgent case will be dealt with
doctors on less than the average wage then?
thought not.
gold plated pensions not enough either?
jesus, the only thing i can think of why doctors would need to strike about is they dont get the holidays teachers get, but then they have their marking!!!
Do you know anything about it - thought not
bestow on me your great knowledge oh mighty one.
if you are a doctor, how have you time to be on here? thought you were overworked and underpaid
Simply use google and you wil find out that 90,000 is the very top end of earnings for doctors If you average it out they earn the same as petrol tanker drivers and that's after 7 years training and at the top end Consultants are being asked to take a third cut in their pensions pay more into it and work longer - Doctors in the UK are paid less than their equivelents in most developed countries - and newly qualified junior doctors get paid pro rata the same as a cashier in a bank
Really? My cousin has been a cashier in a bank for the last 5 years - and earns £13k.
And unlike doctors has far less opportuntiy to get experience related pay rises, decent career progression, paid overtime and a pension worth more than sod all when she eventually retires.
yes really and after doing a 5 year degree and of course they will go on and earn more but very few will get to the 90,000 which most people think they earn
you forgot the 2-3 years they spend training as junior doctors and the decades they spend doing yet more courses and the continuous professional development they have to undertake to keep there knowledge up to date.
It all starts at the age of 16 to - leave it any longer than that and it's virtually impossible to get a place - as it is you have about a 5% chance of getting into medical college "I wasnt talking about the difficulties getting in, i was talking about the huge amount of work you have after you gain your degree. | |||
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"The NHS has been providing a much better service in recent years after 13 years of decent funding its recovered from 17 years of Tory underfunding and mismanagement. " Net expenditure on the NHS may have risen by between 3% and, in one year, 10% under Labour, but as we've now discovered, it was with money the govt simply didn't have, hence the huge deficit that the Coalition have been forced to deal with. The Tories have had to fight tooth and nail with the LibDems to get their proposed changes to the NHS pushed through yet even the dimmest of people admit something had to be done about the scandalous amount of waste generated by the NHS. "Health inequalities are starting to drop, survival rates for cancer are rapidly improving and the commonwealth fund (an american private foundation that works for better healthcare) rated the NHS second overall on efficiency, value for money and care. The NHS has half the number of senior managers that the US does, 1/2 the admin staff suffers on a fraction of the fraud the US system does and had its highest ever levels of satisfaction in 2010." Do you have links to your data? I'd like to read it. | |||
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" I'm really pleased that Cameron and chums can't touch the NHS in Scotland with their privatisation plans. It may not be perfect, but you know it's being delivered in the public interest, not those of the fat cat profiteers. I hope that never changes." Very good point,I have never been a nat and hate alex salmond with a pasion , but you are right THE NHS should be for everyone not just the can affords which sadly is the way it will probably go down south of the border if cameron gets his way, but remember it may stay free in scotland for a while after independance (which i hope will never come)but just take a look at sothern ireland ,and i wonder if some day scotland will have to go down the same way ,and we will have to start paying to see the doc ext, long may the NHS last . Now like i said ,i hope indepandance for scotland never comes i am proud to be british and have a larg extended familay in devon cornwal due to my conection with the british forces ,but i wonder, with a heavy heart ,that if cameron and his cronies stay in power ,we in scotland just break ties and go seperate ways, but only for the good of the people ,because under the tories it can only get worse ,every thing we own as a country will be sold off too privat profiteering companys. | |||
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"The NHS has been providing a much better service in recent years after 13 years of decent funding its recovered from 17 years of Tory underfunding and mismanagement. Net expenditure on the NHS may have risen by between 3% and, in one year, 10% under Labour, but as we've now discovered, it was with money the govt simply didn't have, hence the huge deficit that the Coalition have been forced to deal with. The Tories have had to fight tooth and nail with the LibDems to get their proposed changes to the NHS pushed through yet even the dimmest of people admit something had to be done about the scandalous amount of waste generated by the NHS. Health inequalities are starting to drop, survival rates for cancer are rapidly improving and the commonwealth fund (an american private foundation that works for better healthcare) rated the NHS second overall on efficiency, value for money and care. The NHS has half the number of senior managers that the US does, 1/2 the admin staff suffers on a fraction of the fraud the US system does and had its highest ever levels of satisfaction in 2010. Do you have links to your data? I'd like to read it." The debt and deficit was historically low under labour it was only after the crash stripped £100billion out of receipts that the deficit rose to its current levels. Yes the NHS needs changes to cope with future challenges but a top down reorganisation that adds layers of management and paperwork and burocrats isn't the answer. It won't increase integration it will inhibit it. I will link them when I'm not on my phone, but the commonwealth fund 2011 is a good start, it shows the positives and the challenges the nhs faces. | |||
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