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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" I won’t meet unless I read verifications as it accounts for safety | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" Verifications really mean diddly squat, you can still be active without verifications. Don't need them to prove co many people been on the scene, meet regular or at venues not all related to FAB People use veris as badges of honour - gold stars. The main purpose of veri is to prove you are genuine but even then falls short | |||
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"I've been accused of having a fake profile - even of being a wrong sex - by someone who's been on fab for a year and he hasn't got a green tick yet.. Because I wasn't interested in meeting him. Apparently people can get fake veris. Well I have a few from verified users - are we all fake? " As in previous thread veris really mean dilly squad, some actively approach other and ask if they can verify them. Chat to find out about them you'll soon discover if they are bullshitting or not, but people don't want to put in the effort and go on veris alone, then moan when things don't work out. Winks are lazy send a message chat. its how it always used to be done. | |||
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"I often wonder when I see a profile, usually single male with lots of pics of them in all sorts of passion with numerous people and no ceros; I wonder why are you on fab because you obviously get lots of meets without fab. Then I realise that it’s obviously bollocks. " I got chatting with someone early in my fab days. Added as a friend. He had one or two veries. Noticed the same random action shots with different women kept popping up in my updates. Asked him why. He said some were 10 years old and they generate interest as a newly added photo. I thinks it's just spam though and I find them a turn off anyway. To answer OP, however, I take everything I hear on site as 99% bullshit until given reason to believe otherwise. It is the internet after all. They might well be active and have a swinging life outside of fab. But verifications are part of my due diligence process. None after a substantial length of time or very few, especially if hidden is often a red flag for me. But you can always take a chance at meeting for coffee in a public place. Nothing will tell you whether they are your cup of tea in the bedroom until you actually get them there. | |||
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" People use veris as badges of honour - gold stars. The main purpose of veri is to prove you are genuine but even then falls short " For some reason I read that as "Badger of Honour". I now want a badger of honour... | |||
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"I often wonder when I see a profile, usually single male with lots of pics of them in all sorts of passion with numerous people and no ceros; I wonder why are you on fab because you obviously get lots of meets without fab. Then I realise that it’s obviously bollocks. I got chatting with someone early in my fab days. Added as a friend. He had one or two veries. Noticed the same random action shots with different women kept popping up in my updates. Asked him why. He said some were 10 years old and they generate interest as a newly added photo. I thinks it's just spam though and I find them a turn off anyway. To answer OP, however, I take everything I hear on site as 99% bullshit until given reason to believe otherwise. It is the internet after all. They might well be active and have a swinging life outside of fab. But verifications are part of my due diligence process. None after a substantial length of time or very few, especially if hidden is often a red flag for me. But you can always take a chance at meeting for coffee in a public place. Nothing will tell you whether they are your cup of tea in the bedroom until you actually get them there. " Just a question : Had a couple of veris you met him added him as a friend, bit of a prat kept posting the same images "to generate interest". It didn't work out - why would 2 or 200 veris make a difference? | |||
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"Varifications, I give little credence to (has anyone ever seen a negative one). But I'd be very sceptical of no varifications or non-displayed. " We do not show our verifications or our friends list on principle. So how does that rate us? | |||
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"I often wonder when I see a profile, usually single male with lots of pics of them in all sorts of passion with numerous people and no ceros; I wonder why are you on fab because you obviously get lots of meets without fab. Then I realise that it’s obviously bollocks. I got chatting with someone early in my fab days. Added as a friend. He had one or two veries. Noticed the same random action shots with different women kept popping up in my updates. Asked him why. He said some were 10 years old and they generate interest as a newly added photo. I thinks it's just spam though and I find them a turn off anyway. To answer OP, however, I take everything I hear on site as 99% bullshit until given reason to believe otherwise. It is the internet after all. They might well be active and have a swinging life outside of fab. But verifications are part of my due diligence process. None after a substantial length of time or very few, especially if hidden is often a red flag for me. But you can always take a chance at meeting for coffee in a public place. Nothing will tell you whether they are your cup of tea in the bedroom until you actually get them there. Just a question : Had a couple of veris you met him added him as a friend, bit of a prat kept posting the same images "to generate interest". It didn't work out - why would 2 or 200 veris make a difference? " I never met him. His need to generate such interest through posting old photos was kind of off putting for me. So un-friended and the chat fizzled out anyway. That story was more relevant to the comment I quoted than to the OP. On the point of verifications though. Whether someone has none, 2 or 200 veries my fab bullshit detector is still running. But they are tool that can assist your decision making process. But I can see how some may see them just as badges of honour in some kind of competition... | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" I'm non-verified, but completely genuine. I understand completely why some people insist on verification before meets, but it is very, very frustrating. I've been to swingers clubs before, but it isn't necessarily something I want to do solo, or single, just to meet people to get verified. Surely there are easier ways to settle any doubts; phone call, quick cam session? So, yeah, I would say there are exceptions. I am one! | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions? I'm non-verified, but completely genuine. I understand completely why some people insist on verification before meets, but it is very, very frustrating. I've been to swingers clubs before, but it isn't necessarily something I want to do solo, or single, just to meet people to get verified. Surely there are easier ways to settle any doubts; phone call, quick cam session? So, yeah, I would say there are exceptions. I am one! " Genuine must be one of the most overused words on this site. (Along with discreet and professional). I only have your word to take for it, which is worthless as I dont know you and having grown up in world of MSN chat rooms and whatnot. You really can be anyone on the internet. You might say you are genuine but so too do the fake photo verified profiles that proliferate this site. A meet verification. Even if just social or a club tells me you are real and turned looking as expected. None of this is fool proof though. So veries are a tool that can assist where I'm sure you can all agree personal safety is paramount. | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" I prefer people that are new on fab unverified doesnt bother me. I'd be more likely to meet them than someone with many verfications. But that's just me | |||
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" I never met him. His need to generate such interest through posting old photos was kind of off putting for me. So un-friended and the chat fizzled out anyway. That story was more relevant to the comment I quoted than to the OP. On the point of verifications though. Whether someone has none, 2 or 200 veries my fab bullshit detector is still running. But they are tool that can assist your decision making process. But I can see how some may see them just as badges of honour in some kind of competition... " Absolutely why asked questions veris on their own have little value, but as a starting point or a reference point they add value to a decision process. Point of the question and to the the OP they shouldn't be considered absolute. Other criteria should also be considered to make an informed decision, still doesn't have guarantees, some people use veris single-mindedly and absolute. FAB even encourages people to do that by allowing people to filter out non verified people. Why they do that? have a pretty good idea but its is not my place to say | |||
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"Varifications, I give little credence to (has anyone ever seen a negative one). But I'd be very sceptical of no varifications or non-displayed. We do not show our verifications or our friends list on principle. So how does that rate us?" To clarify varifications are part of a bigger picture. At the end of the day we don't know each other, just what is present on a profile page. Varifications are ment as an aid. The absence of any varifications or a handful that are all hidden is not game stopper on its own. People have their reasons not to show them, or just have none, not nessersarly sinister. But to me it maybe a potential red flag. Add other factors such as things on their profile that don't check out, yes I would probably be inclined to steer clear or at least do some more digging. I think we develop a sence for red flags in this game and varifications are part of putting that picture together. | |||
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"Only ever met a couple unverified folk. So yea not going to get verified, most likely. Meaning verified folk won’t meet me. " Your not helping yourself. Lack Veris aren't the end of the world just can make it a bit more difficult. As most people will say start with socials, chat etc. You have to put the effort and legwork in. Present yourself in the right light give people a reason to maybe want to take a chance with not expect it | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" it’s an indication that they are real if there are a couple of verifications but you can’t always rely 100% of what people say in them. | |||
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" I never met him. His need to generate such interest through posting old photos was kind of off putting for me. So un-friended and the chat fizzled out anyway. That story was more relevant to the comment I quoted than to the OP. On the point of verifications though. Whether someone has none, 2 or 200 veries my fab bullshit detector is still running. But they are tool that can assist your decision making process. But I can see how some may see them just as badges of honour in some kind of competition... Absolutely why asked questions veris on their own have little value, but as a starting point or a reference point they add value to a decision process. Point of the question and to the the OP they shouldn't be considered absolute. Other criteria should also be considered to make an informed decision, still doesn't have guarantees, some people use veris single-mindedly and absolute. FAB even encourages people to do that by allowing people to filter out non verified people. Why they do that? have a pretty good idea but its is not my place to say Thanks for great replies, regrettably I made a rash call and suggested to someone that they were poss catfishing, they were not verified. We’d contacted them with face pic and I guess because no verification and impatience on my behalf shot my mouth off as I was concerned for my wives privacy. Never know what some saddos do for kicks. I got a reply, which seemed very genuine and straight to point. I felt bad because (i) I called them out incorrectly (ii) great opportunity missed. Live and learn. " | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" If they aren’t verified then they haven’t been actively meeting so that a little fib, still most can probably be taken seriously.. | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions? If they aren’t verified then they haven’t been actively meeting so that a little fib, still most can probably be taken seriously.. " Why is that a fib? I don’t give veris unless someone really wants one but I ask them not to veri me. | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions? If they aren’t verified then they haven’t been actively meeting so that a little fib, still most can probably be taken seriously.. Why is that a fib? I don’t give veris unless someone really wants one but I ask them not to veri me. " Yet you are verified and men will ALWAYS look for the first veri at a minimum.. | |||
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"I used to be active but didn’t want verifications. I only had them from people sending me one from social events. I’m not a fan of them tbh. I like to keep who I meet private. " You are amazing beautiful pictures x | |||
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"It is interesting to some other the posts around verifications. But to say people are not active if they do not have veris is a little preposterous to say the least. The swinging world has been around for decades wife swapping/swinging way back in the 30s-40s. Technically swinging goes back centuries. Swinging world is much bigger and does not start and stop with FAB. FAB is only one of many resources available to actual swingers and who use these resources. So just to reiterate - no FAB veris does not mean you are not active or fib/lie/bu*****t. " | |||
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"It is interesting to some other the posts around verifications. But to say people are not active if they do not have veris is a little preposterous to say the least. The swinging world has been around for decades wife swapping/swinging way back in the 30s-40s. Technically swinging goes back centuries. Swinging world is much bigger and does not start and stop with FAB. FAB is only one of many resources available to actual swingers and who use these resources. So just to reiterate - no FAB veris does not mean you are not active or fib/lie/bu*****t. " The question was asked about fabs only.. I’ll let you go back a read it again.. now that you’ve done that.. So just to reiterate, I’m correct in what I said, but thanks for the history lesson anyway.. | |||
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"It is interesting to some other the posts around verifications. But to say people are not active if they do not have veris is a little preposterous to say the least. The swinging world has been around for decades wife swapping/swinging way back in the 30s-40s. Technically swinging goes back centuries. Swinging world is much bigger and does not start and stop with FAB. FAB is only one of many resources available to actual swingers and who use these resources. So just to reiterate - no FAB veris does not mean you are not active or fib/lie/bu*****t. The question was asked about fabs only.. I’ll let you go back a read it again.. now that you’ve done that.. So just to reiterate, I’m correct in what I said, but thanks for the history lesson anyway.. " "Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" Maybe a good idea to read the question first yourself, just a helpful suggestion | |||
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"A few weeks ago I met an unverified guy for a coffee at my local Starbucks. Since then I think there are about 3days that we haven’t seen each other! I decided to take a risk because his opening message was great, he attached a face pic - and he was local enough for it to be no big deal if he’d stood me up/catfished me! As it was it was the best ‘risk’ I’ve ever taken on fab! Veris are a useful tool - but they’re not the be all and end all! X" | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" I’ve been very active in the past, been on and off here. Don’t always hunt for veris from previous folks when I come back on. Like everything with Fab, you never can tell. Use your gut and go with your instinct. | |||
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"A few weeks ago I met an unverified guy for a coffee at my local Starbucks. Since then I think there are about 3days that we haven’t seen each other! I decided to take a risk because his opening message was great, he attached a face pic - and he was local enough for it to be no big deal if he’d stood me up/catfished me! As it was it was the best ‘risk’ I’ve ever taken on fab! Veris are a useful tool - but they’re not the be all and end all! X" | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions? If they aren’t verified then they haven’t been actively meeting so that a little fib, still most can probably be taken seriously.. Why is that a fib? I don’t give veris unless someone really wants one but I ask them not to veri me. Yet you are verified and men will ALWAYS look for the first veri at a minimum.. " I didn’t have a meet one though. I don’t allow people to give them. I have 2 date drinks ones and 25 social events ones. I’ve met many others sexually but not veri’d due to my choice. | |||
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"It is interesting to some other the posts around verifications. But to say people are not active if they do not have veris is a little preposterous to say the least. The swinging world has been around for decades wife swapping/swinging way back in the 30s-40s. Technically swinging goes back centuries. Swinging world is much bigger and does not start and stop with FAB. FAB is only one of many resources available to actual swingers and who use these resources. So just to reiterate - no FAB veris does not mean you are not active or fib/lie/bu*****t. The question was asked about fabs only.. I’ll let you go back a read it again.. now that you’ve done that.. So just to reiterate, I’m correct in what I said, but thanks for the history lesson anyway.. "Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" Maybe a good idea to read the question first yourself, just a helpful suggestion " What part are you confused on? | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions? If they aren’t verified then they haven’t been actively meeting so that a little fib, still most can probably be taken seriously.. Why is that a fib? I don’t give veris unless someone really wants one but I ask them not to veri me. Yet you are verified and men will ALWAYS look for the first veri at a minimum.. I didn’t have a meet one though. I don’t allow people to give them. I have 2 date drinks ones and 25 social events ones. I’ve met many others sexually but not veri’d due to my choice. " A social veri is still a veri.. | |||
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"Veris mean nowt. I only allowed 2 veris. And that's so someone agrees I'm OK... But I ain't trip advisor.! Someone else's opinion you believe?? If you read all the veris everyone is amazing as bad veris are not shown!!! " Very good point | |||
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"It's hard to be verified when you haven't had a meet yet lol" It can be difficult but presentation and approach can make a difference - FAB socials are a good place to start | |||
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"A few weeks ago I met an unverified guy for a coffee at my local Starbucks. Since then I think there are about 3days that we haven’t seen each other! I decided to take a risk because his opening message was great, he attached a face pic - and he was local enough for it to be no big deal if he’d stood me up/catfished me! As it was it was the best ‘risk’ I’ve ever taken on fab! Veris are a useful tool - but they’re not the be all and end all! X" The guy I’m in a relationship now with from here wasn’t verified and had been on here over a year. He had met a few people but they didn’t verify each other. He couldn’t anyway because he wasn’t verified. He, like myself, doesn’t really like the whole feedback thing. Thankfully, I took a chance and got to know him properly. Feedback means nothing. Then again, I’m never read them in the first place and got to know someone properly. Someone else’s view could put me off unnecessarily. | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions? If they aren’t verified then they haven’t been actively meeting so that a little fib, still most can probably be taken seriously.. Why is that a fib? I don’t give veris unless someone really wants one but I ask them not to veri me. Yet you are verified and men will ALWAYS look for the first veri at a minimum.. " NO, they don’t. | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions? If they aren’t verified then they haven’t been actively meeting so that a little fib, still most can probably be taken seriously.. Why is that a fib? I don’t give veris unless someone really wants one but I ask them not to veri me. Yet you are verified and men will ALWAYS look for the first veri at a minimum.. I didn’t have a meet one though. I don’t allow people to give them. I have 2 date drinks ones and 25 social events ones. I’ve met many others sexually but not veri’d due to my choice. A social veri is still a veri.. " I’m on KK and have been for 4 years. I met many on that site and many lovely guys. Luckily they don’t have a veri system. It means bugger all to me. If it means something to you then so be it but that’s a real shame if it matters that much. | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions? If they aren’t verified then they haven’t been actively meeting so that a little fib, still most can probably be taken seriously.. Why is that a fib? I don’t give veris unless someone really wants one but I ask them not to veri me. Yet you are verified and men will ALWAYS look for the first veri at a minimum.. I didn’t have a meet one though. I don’t allow people to give them. I have 2 date drinks ones and 25 social events ones. I’ve met many others sexually but not veri’d due to my choice. A social veri is still a veri.. " Yes but I choose not to show them as I don’t want them and still receive them. | |||
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" "Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" The question was asked about fabs only.. I’ll let you go back a read it again.. now that you’ve done that.. So just to reiterate, I’m correct in what I said, but thanks for the history lesson anyway.. What part are you confused on? " The bit in the OP original post mentions anything about FAB - only, but hey ho | |||
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"It's hard to be verified when you haven't had a meet yet lol It can be difficult but presentation and approach can make a difference - FAB socials are a good place to start " I have pretty bad social anxiety and generally hate large gatherings. I know that if I went to a FAB social, I'd probably be stood at the bar looking awkward. But once I've got to know someone online and I feel comfortable talking to me my social anxiety goes away in the first twenty minutes of meeting them. I'd say my approach online is alright, I generally just send a message asking if they'd like to get to know each other as friends, learn about each other's hobbies and what we do for work, things like that to break the ice. It has to be a better approach than jumping straight into the sex talk, I figure that should come later. | |||
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" "Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" The question was asked about fabs only.. I’ll let you go back a read it again.. now that you’ve done that.. So just to reiterate, I’m correct in what I said, but thanks for the history lesson anyway.. What part are you confused on? The bit in the OP original post mentions anything about FAB - only, but hey ho " So clubs are now doing veris? | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions? If they aren’t verified then they haven’t been actively meeting so that a little fib, still most can probably be taken seriously.. Why is that a fib? I don’t give veris unless someone really wants one but I ask them not to veri me. Yet you are verified and men will ALWAYS look for the first veri at a minimum.. I didn’t have a meet one though. I don’t allow people to give them. I have 2 date drinks ones and 25 social events ones. I’ve met many others sexually but not veri’d due to my choice. A social veri is still a veri.. Yes but I choose not to show them as I don’t want them and still receive them. " That’s what I’m saying.. | |||
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" "Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" The question was asked about fabs only.. I’ll let you go back a read it again.. now that you’ve done that.. So just to reiterate, I’m correct in what I said, but thanks for the history lesson anyway.. What part are you confused on? The bit in the OP original post mentions anything about FAB - only, but hey ho So clubs are now doing veris? " Yes, you can get them from meeting people at clubs and also people who work there. | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions? If they aren’t verified then they haven’t been actively meeting so that a little fib, still most can probably be taken seriously.. Why is that a fib? I don’t give veris unless someone really wants one but I ask them not to veri me. Yet you are verified and men will ALWAYS look for the first veri at a minimum.. I didn’t have a meet one though. I don’t allow people to give them. I have 2 date drinks ones and 25 social events ones. I’ve met many others sexually but not veri’d due to my choice. A social veri is still a veri.. Yes but I choose not to show them as I don’t want them and still receive them. That’s what I’m saying.. " I don’t want any though. I did well enough on other swinging sites that don’t have them. You just get judged when you do have them on here. | |||
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" "Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" The question was asked about fabs only.. I’ll let you go back a read it again.. now that you’ve done that.. So just to reiterate, I’m correct in what I said, but thanks for the history lesson anyway.. What part are you confused on? The bit in the OP original post mentions anything about FAB - only, but hey ho So clubs are now doing veris? Yes, you can get them from meeting people at clubs and also people who work there. " Jeez, exactly, so the veris are on fabs.. | |||
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"It's hard to be verified when you haven't had a meet yet lol" exactly | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions? If they aren’t verified then they haven’t been actively meeting so that a little fib, still most can probably be taken seriously.. Why is that a fib? I don’t give veris unless someone really wants one but I ask them not to veri me. Yet you are verified and men will ALWAYS look for the first veri at a minimum.. I didn’t have a meet one though. I don’t allow people to give them. I have 2 date drinks ones and 25 social events ones. I’ve met many others sexually but not veri’d due to my choice. A social veri is still a veri.. Yes but I choose not to show them as I don’t want them and still receive them. That’s what I’m saying.. I don’t want any though. I did well enough on other swinging sites that don’t have them. You just get judged when you do have them on here. " You’re saying the exact same thing I’m saying... | |||
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"Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions? If they aren’t verified then they haven’t been actively meeting so that a little fib, still most can probably be taken seriously.. Why is that a fib? I don’t give veris unless someone really wants one but I ask them not to veri me. Yet you are verified and men will ALWAYS look for the first veri at a minimum.. I didn’t have a meet one though. I don’t allow people to give them. I have 2 date drinks ones and 25 social events ones. I’ve met many others sexually but not veri’d due to my choice. A social veri is still a veri.. Yes but I choose not to show them as I don’t want them and still receive them. That’s what I’m saying.. I don’t want any though. I did well enough on other swinging sites that don’t have them. You just get judged when you do have them on here. You’re saying the exact same thing I’m saying... " Which is? (I’ve had gin and now lost) | |||
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" "Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" The question was asked about fabs only.. I’ll let you go back a read it again.. now that you’ve done that.. So just to reiterate, I’m correct in what I said, but thanks for the history lesson anyway.. What part are you confused on? The bit in the OP original post mentions anything about FAB - only, but hey ho So clubs are now doing veris? " You obviously have limited knowledge of the larger swingers community - so I'll leave this thread there as don't want the post to be stopped cos it could be useful to others. Wish you all the best in your search | |||
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" "Can you trust someone who isn’t verified but claims to be active? Surely verification enables people to be taken more seriously, are there exceptions?" The question was asked about fabs only.. I’ll let you go back a read it again.. now that you’ve done that.. So just to reiterate, I’m correct in what I said, but thanks for the history lesson anyway.. What part are you confused on? The bit in the OP original post mentions anything about FAB - only, but hey ho So clubs are now doing veris? You obviously have limited knowledge of the larger swingers community - so I'll leave this thread there as don't want the post to be stopped cos it could be useful to others. Wish you all the best in your search" At last, thank you.. | |||
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"I have no need of verifications, or to display them to know my worth. Nor would I ever make decisions about another based on the number or absence of verifications they may have. Perhaps OP it's better to communicate and discover those others who may be of interest in exactly the same way as most people do in the world outside of fab. Or do you consider it normal to meet others away from here and ask how when where and how often they fuck before you decide if they are acceptable simply as other humans... " This is the most intelligent post so far and I agree with you immensely. | |||
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