FabSwingers.com forum: Guns dont kill, people do.

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

With the latest mass murders in the usa this month, it happens everyday, but not all get reported, is it time for a tigher gun law? There is a gun for every person there, you can argue that a sane person dont reach for a gun, what is your view?

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By *moothdickMan
over a year ago

stoke

It’s to far gone to change the law in the is.. there’s to many guns to eradicate the source

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By *gnitemybodyWoman
over a year ago

Onestepoutofthedoor

Well strictly speaking guns do kill they just need to be fired by a person.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its like its been gun weekend

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By *heslimoneMan
over a year ago

Deeside

Guns in the hands of the masses is madness but a reflection of the time the amendment was penned. Sadly i can't ever see things changing in US it's not practical to take guns off so many people, it would be chaos. The only way there is any chance of things improving is to make very small changes to gun law over a long period of time but even that will face colossal opposition from the NRA which holds a lot of sway.

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

The problem is that the more people that have access the more likely one is to be fired. As it stands now it isn't possible to totally ban private ownership of firearms as it would criminalise too vast a number of citizens.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There’s more good people with guns than bad people. Let them keep them. If history has taught us anything, nationwide confiscations of people’s first line of defence leads to nefarious governments.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

"There’s more good people with guns than bad people. Let them keep them. If history has taught us anything, nationwide confiscations of people’s first line of defence leads to nefarious governments."

While I agree with the latter, your first part (again while true) is not a valid reason. Having easy access to such a weapon results in shit going down exactly like this weekend, so many innocent people killed because good people want to keep their weapons.

There is no easy solution to gun control that will actually work but if good people were really good, they would do all they can to try and stop shit like mass shootings happening. Having their own gun in retaliation is not doing something about it.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

The second amendment was put in place funny enough by the English, it was to enable people to defend themselves against an armed militia.

But my guess is the president and his team are getting nicely funded by the NRA and other such groups to do anything about it.

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By *astyEricMan
over a year ago

Hull

Considering USA have 120 guns per 100 people, homicide with guns involved is pretty low compare to other countries. Why spread media news like its a massive problem?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Considering USA have 120 guns per 100 people, homicide with guns involved is pretty low compare to other countries. Why spread media news like its a massive problem? "

That’s incorrect. The rate of guns is higher than that. It is a massive problem. Have you ever lived there?

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By *ed-monkeyCouple
over a year ago

Hailsham

Easy access to guns = more gun crime

Not rocket science

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Exactly this. There is no simple solution. People owning a gun just lets them feel safe and doesn’t do anything about the problem.

I shouldn’t come on posts like these.

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By *astyEricMan
over a year ago

Hull

"Considering USA have 120 guns per 100 people, homicide with guns involved is pretty low compare to other countries. Why spread media news like its a massive problem?

That’s incorrect. The rate of guns is higher than that. It is a massive problem. Have you ever lived there?

No i did not, but if you consider about 11 guns per 100 in honduras with 66 per 100000 homicides with guns, compare to let's say 200 guns per 100 and 5 homicides with guns per 100000 in USA. Its just funny to blame accessibility to guns

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the worlds a stage, I’m not saying all mass shootings are staged but if people studied false flag events, a lot of people would realise what some governments are prepared to do to persuade public opinion and push their agenda.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I dont see the fascination with guns. They're ugly things.

I've had my fill of them.

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

240+ mass shootings in USA this year so far, 25000 gun deaths.

But gun culture is embedded, as is political lobbying - both to dehydration most Brits and Europeans will never understand.

I used to live in the USA, the general attitude there to guns is totally alien to us. Many Americans would literally rather see children shot to death rather than serious gun control.

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

"to an extent" not "dehydration" .

Sometimes auto correct is utterly bizarre.

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By *ed-monkeyCouple
over a year ago

Hailsham

"I dont see the fascination with guns. They're ugly things.

I've had my fill of them. "

Glue guns are useful ... and nail guns

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I heard on the news that there have now been more shootings in the US this year than there have been days. Its all about gun control and those that think otherwise are deluded.

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By *ed-monkeyCouple
over a year ago

Hailsham

""to an extent" not "dehydration" .

Sometimes auto correct is utterly bizarre. "

Shoot it!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Plenty shootings over here too just not as grand a scale mind you as its normally shotguns not assault rifles plenty mutters about everywhere

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Two of America’s biggest cities with the strictest gun control laws they have still have the two highest gun crime rates and homocide rates in the country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Considering USA have 120 guns per 100 people, homicide with guns involved is pretty low compare to other countries. Why spread media news like its a massive problem?

That’s incorrect. The rate of guns is higher than that. It is a massive problem. Have you ever lived there?

If you haven’t lived there it’s harder to understand first hand the attitude. The general low level way you are always aware that anyone could have a gun at any time. Someone comes to buy your old couch, you see their gun in their waistband as they push it up into their truck. It’s normal, and it’s uncomfortable. Gun crime isn’t just mass shootings, it is suicide, it is mugging and assault. It escalates lower level crime because it adds a greater threat and is more removed and less personal than a crime that requires physical contact.

There isn’t another country the size and makeup of the US. Every other country that is supposedly at the same level of development has more control and less violence.

There’s nothing funny about any of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There’s not the same amount of gun crime in the Uk, that’s nonsense.

The false flag nonsense is all well and good until you know people directly impacted by mass shootings, and you wait to hear your friends are ok.

Living here people have no clue the security and safety you have here. Not saying everyone lives in a lovely area free of crime, or hasn’t been a victim, but as a broader subject the Uk is significantly safer than the US and without experiencing living in both places it’s possible your view isn’t a full balanced view.

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

Many people in the US support gun control, but the NRA have enough politicians in their pockets to prevent any action. The political system in America is blatantly corrupt. There is little hope of any change in the foreseeable future.

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

Whilst it is true that "guns don't kill, people do", I doubt if even 1% of those killed by guns in the US in any given year would have still occured if guns were not available.

There are also on average around 600 gun related accidental deaths & injuries each year in the US.

In the UK currently there is a knife crime issue, but imagine how much worse it would be if these people had guns. It's much harder to knife multiple people, or stab people from a distance.

Cal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's very easy to kill a lot of people very quickly with a gun. It's very impersonal, you don't have to look someone in the face before killing them, the task is made easy. Then you could argue that knives are equally effective when someone has the motivation as happened at London bridge a couple of years ago.

I had the misfortune of seeing many young men with gunshot wounds during my time in the military, it's a terrible thing in a war let alone in schools or food events. There is no place for certain guns to be owned by members of the public under any circumstance. Shotguns, hunting rifles or target rifles/pistols, yes but automatic weapons and Saturday night specials?

How you remove guns from the streets of America I wouldn't have a clue,there are so many in circulation licensed and unlicensed and the NRA have their allies in the Senate so it would take a miracle to even pass new gun laws let alone bring in even half the guns out there but with the amount of mass shootings in America it's time they started doing something about it

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

Some official numbers :

"In England and Wales in 2016-17, there were 31 fatal shootings - or one for every 1.9 million people. In the US, in contrast, there were 11,000 murdersor manslaughters involving a firearm or one death for every 30,000 people."

Taken from a BBC news report last year

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well strictly speaking guns do kill they just need to be fired by a person."

That's what the OP is saying.

People/media can make a good situation look bad or vice versa.

The world leaders are people too, just like me and you.

Do they really want change and a happy society. I don't think so

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Some official numbers :

In England and Wales in 2016-17, there were 31 fatal shootings - or one for every 1.9 million people. In the US, in contrast, there were 11,000 murdersor manslaughters involving a firearm or one death for every 30,000 people.

Taken from a BBC news report last year"

I would imagine most of those were suicides. Is there a breakdown?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard on the news that there have now been more shootings in the US this year than there have been days. Its all about gun control and those that think otherwise are deluded. "

Trouble is where to start in the US? So many unregistered guns already out there. Even bringing in the known ones is a virtually impossible task, even if there were the political will..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Spud guns now then....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People kill people by using guns. The statement in the title of this thread makes no sense.

There’s no need for any normal citizen on the entire planet to have a gun.

America is fucked.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People are always the reason behind a shooting.

Statistics show that places with tougher laws on guns have less gun crime. It's a no brainer really.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So do the police whoop whoop whoop

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By *orenzoVonMatterhornMan
over a year ago

Lincoln

When a country values machinery over human lives, you know they're in big trouble.

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By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

No, the amount of people killed by guns is a small price to pay.

If guns were legal in the UK then the UK would be in danger of breaking apart.

Guns are legal in the US and it holds them together.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard on the news that there have now been more shootings in the US this year than there have been days. Its all about gun control and those that think otherwise are deluded.

Trouble is where to start in the US? So many unregistered guns already out there. Even bringing in the known ones is a virtually impossible task, even if there were the political will.."

They could start by banning the production and sale of guns and ammunition so that they aren’t pumping more into the country. Then check all the registers they have and buy they guns back from people, and anyone that doesn’t faces jail. Then the rest of the unregistered guns they either

1) commit raids and places they are stored

2) rely on snitches to get info

3) wait it out until they no longer function

Sure it won’t get rid of all guns but it will significantly reduce them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If i lived in the US I would have a gun. It is a violent country and neighboured by a more violent country to the south.

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By *ty31Man
over a year ago

NW London

"I heard on the news that there have now been more shootings in the US this year than there have been days. Its all about gun control and those that think otherwise are deluded.

Trouble is where to start in the US? So many unregistered guns already out there. Even bringing in the known ones is a virtually impossible task, even if there were the political will..

1) commit raids and places they are stored

2) rely on snitches to get info

3) wait it out until they no longer function

Sure it won’t get rid of all guns but it will significantly reduce them "

The issue with banning sale and production is the mass unemployment it would cause and the negative impact on the economy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard on the news that there have now been more shootings in the US this year than there have been days. Its all about gun control and those that think otherwise are deluded.

Trouble is where to start in the US? So many unregistered guns already out there. Even bringing in the known ones is a virtually impossible task, even if there were the political will.."

Just because something is difficult to implement doesn’t mean it doesn’t need to change. Men, women and children are dying everyday because of outdated attitudes.

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By *unnyfookMan
over a year ago

Naas

i think the saying that guns dont kill people its people is an excuse used to dust over an industry that live on death. if you really want to analyse itits not the gun its the bullet that hits the artery or blows the brains onto to the floor that does the killing. remove the gun thats the problem. how many mass murders happen over here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

why does anyone need a gun?

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By *tephTV67TV/TS
over a year ago

Cheshire

Chris Rock had the perfect answer to gun control. Don't try and get rid of the guns, make the amuntion more expensive, his valuation $5000 per bullet. As he said at that cost there would be no more innocent bystanders.

Would this idea be taken up ? if Sandy Hook in which 20 yes 20 6-7 year old children were killed, didn't change the mindset for the gun owners, nothing will.

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By *eakcoupleCouple
over a year ago

peak district

It's up to the Americans what laws they make - how would people feel about the Yanks telling us how to run our lives?

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By *unnyfookMan
over a year ago

Naas

"It's up to the Americans what laws they make - how would people feel about the Yanks telling us how to run our lives? "
, they do tell us what to do, and with brexit you will be told more than you realise what to do.

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By *ocketman99Man
over a year ago

fermanagh

As of today, in the USA there has been 8,782 people killed this year (2019) to today!

As a poster said there are too many guns to remove from society! What I propose is government funded program to convert all guns to fire blanks only, and a 500% tax on live ammo! No tax or small level of tax on blanks!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How about they stop making these damn things ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Guns don't kill people, rappers do. I saw it in a documentary on BBC2. Goldie Lookin' Chain for lyf

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By *orenzoVonMatterhornMan
over a year ago

Lincoln

"why does anyone need a gun?"

I won't lie, I'd quite like to own a firearm or two for recreational target shooting but it seems that it's just too easy for people in America to pick up weapons which facilitates mass murder events

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By *ultry SuccubusTV/TS
over a year ago

London

"It's up to the Americans what laws they make - how would people feel about the Yanks telling us how to run our lives? "

I think Misery Loves Company

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's up to the Americans what laws they make - how would people feel about the Yanks telling us how to run our lives? "

If we had such irresponsible attitudes and laws that endanger us on a daily basis I would hope other countries would step in. What a ridiculous thing to say.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I quite like water pistols

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By *otfabcouple2017Couple
over a year ago

Nottingham

If you look at gun crime stats in the U.K. Before and after the ban, the gun crime rate didn't drop at all. Banning guns does not eradicate them from existence, it just makes it illegal to have one, which if your planning a shooting(also illegal) doesn't really deter you. The criminals that commit most gun crime, aren't gun go to be swayed by the fact the gun is "illegal" not to use it.

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By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

"It's up to the Americans what laws they make - how would people feel about the Yanks telling us how to run our lives?

If we had such irresponsible attitudes and laws that endanger us on a daily basis I would hope other countries would step in. What a ridiculous thing to say."

Well there was a bicycle crash in London the other day that injured 20 people, should other countries tell london to ban bikes?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its too late to toughen up on guns in the u.s, im a keen shooter i have 6 guns. ive been out to the u.s shooting and was shocked how easy it is to walk into a shop and buy a gun... the majority are respectful of their fire arms...

Look at if from this point af view. Per square mile there is more knife/gun crime in the uk than the u.s, knife crime is rife in the u.k... no so much apparent in the u.s, the big difference is in the u.s when it happens its on a larger scale than it would be in the u.k.

You could bring in laws, tougher sentences ect into the system in the u.s but it wouldnt make a difference..

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By *rwhowhatwherewhyMan
over a year ago

Aylesbury

"The second amendment was put in place funny enough by the English, it was to enable people to defend themselves against an armed militia.

But my guess is the president and his team are getting nicely funded by the NRA and other such groups to do anything about it. "

It's not just that, it's written into their codified constitution which makes it very tricky to amend without a high majority vote.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Guns don't kill people people do !!! but I've never managed to kill anyone with a lettuce.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not my country, not my rules.

However I have been riding around the USA for over 2 months now, the topic comes up quite often. Mostly people can't believe I am not carrying a gun, I have been offered a range of guns for sale at petrol stations, camp sites, even coffee shops. One guy at a bikers party was so concerned I wasn't armed he tried to give me a gun free of charge.

I am mostly avoiding cities maybe that could change things, but have to say I have not felt threatened yet. Also the noise here over the last few days its hard to know the shooting sprees have any effect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well there was a bicycle crash in London the other day that injured 20 people, should other countries tell london to ban bikes?"

Yes, and impose sanctions e.g. lycra import bans if we don't

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Guns don't kill people people do !!! but I've never managed to kill anyone with a lettuce."

Hmmm lettuce is a sophomoric hallucinogenic aphrodisiac, so with enough you could cause death by wet dream

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Guns don't kill people people do !!! but I've never managed to kill anyone with a lettuce.

Hmmm lettuce is a sophomoric hallucinogenic aphrodisiac, so with enough you could cause death by wet dream

aahh.. that explains all the wabbits !

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

It's not our problem, it's theirs. They're only going to fix it if they want to. I doubt that meaningful gun control will ever happen in the USA.

In the UK, after Hungerford and then Dunblane, our politicians, with our overwhelming consent, gave us very strict firearms control.

Different cultures. They accept mass shootings. We don't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am from the states I own several weapons including the dreaded AR I am licences to conceal carry not once have I had to use it with that said it more of a mental health problem/social media problem now . People trying to make statements by doing horrific things. Guns are ingrained in our society you right it is too easy for bad people to get ahold of one . I would not hesitate to protect the ones I love.

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By *lanemikeMan
over a year ago

Bolton

"It's not our problem, it's theirs. They're only going to fix it if they want to. I doubt that meaningful gun control will ever happen in the USA.

In the UK, after Hungerford and then Dunblane, our politicians, with our overwhelming consent, gave us very strict firearms control.

Different cultures. They accept mass shootings. We don't."

Sums it pretty well. Think it fair to say much of Europe has an anti-gun culture. Yes, some mass shootings do occur but nothing like as often as in the USA. Just have to wonder why average guy in the street needs to own a weapon?? Can see why folk have sporting weapons and also why a farmer might need a weapon.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's not our problem, it's theirs. They're only going to fix it if they want to. I doubt that meaningful gun control will ever happen in the USA.

In the UK, after Hungerford and then Dunblane, our politicians, with our overwhelming consent, gave us very strict firearms control.

Different cultures. They accept mass shootings. We don't.

So was their total inaction after Whitehaven finally acceptance that it's the wrong approach?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People who support gun ownership are stupid, I've learnt my lesson not to debate with stupid.

That's my view.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's up to the Americans what laws they make - how would people feel about the Yanks telling us how to run our lives?

If we had such irresponsible attitudes and laws that endanger us on a daily basis I would hope other countries would step in. What a ridiculous thing to say.

Well there was a bicycle crash in London the other day that injured 20 people, should other countries tell london to ban bikes?"

You are joking right? There is BIG difference between an accidental bike crash and intentional mass shooting. These comments just keep getting more and more ridiculous.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Should all police be armed ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's not our problem, it's theirs. They're only going to fix it if they want to. I doubt that meaningful gun control will ever happen in the USA.

In the UK, after Hungerford and then Dunblane, our politicians, with our overwhelming consent, gave us very strict firearms control.

Different cultures. They accept mass shootings. We don't."

I wonder what Trump would have said if the shooters weren't white though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not my country, not my rules.

What do you mean noise?

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By *lanemikeMan
over a year ago

Bolton

"It's not our problem, it's theirs. They're only going to fix it if they want to. I doubt that meaningful gun control will ever happen in the USA.

In the UK, after Hungerford and then Dunblane, our politicians, with our overwhelming consent, gave us very strict firearms control.

Different cultures. They accept mass shootings. We don't.

So was their total inaction after Whitehaven finally acceptance that it's the wrong approach?"

Not sure what you mean....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not my country, not my rules.

What do you mean noise?"
news?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Mass shootings in the USA this year - over 240

The rest of the world - 5

The American gun culture is at the heart of the problem. Whilst I can, to an extent, understand the reasoning around it being a difference between good people with guns and bad people with guns, if you took the guns away (or at least made thee more difficult to get hold of) the problem would certainly be reduced.

And when does a good person become a bad person?

I've suffered mental illness myself in the past - not that it would have led me to go around murdering people, but different things affect different people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not my country, not my rules.

What do you mean noise?"

Sorry general overheard conversations in coffee shops.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not my country, not my rules.

What do you mean noise?

Sorry general overheard conversations in coffee shops."

I thought you might mean that. Like chitter chatter out and about. The word on the street.

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By *kbull2000Man
over a year ago

Carluke

This is an impossible issue to conclude with a solution. Mainly because we're not Americans and don't live there.

I've owned and used firearms most of my life. Starting with shotguns from an early age, progressing to target orientated rifles through to an extended period in the army and a short period in private security. Now mainly rifles and shotguns for recreation. I've also lived in the US and a couple of other countries.

Culturally Americans are different. They are secular by nature and generally driven by fear. They fear becoming Ill, loosing their health insurance and being unable to afford treatment, they fear the media driven hype of floods of illegal immigrations and terrorism. The list goes on and on. A fact exploited by Trump during his election campaign.

Firearms are not simply seen as a tool; but a right and a representation of freedom. It's written into their bill of rights that they have the rights to bear arms against anyone perceived as an aggressor, whether that be foreign or domestic. Resulting in a toxic mix of a fearful, fractured society in which a proportion view the firearm as their fundamental right and method of remaining safe/free whilst any person perceived to be limit that access as an aggressor.

Lastly, America as a whole doesn't operate one form or type of gun legislation. Each and every state has it's own which are separate and distinct. Some may restrict full automatics, some limit 'military' types or magazine capacities. Conversely, there are some some small areas in Texas in which it's illegal for a male resident over the age if 18 to NOT own a firearm.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The main issue with America is that it’s the only country in the western world (as far as I’m aware) where it’s citizens view themselves as almost as if they’re part of a cult or a religion.

The ammendments are like the 10 commandments to them. And any suggestion to change them is seen as un-American and unconstitutional. It’s like the worst thing you can do.

They need to rip up the constitution and never write another one either. America has changed and it’s outdated laws cause a lot of conflict.

Nobody needs guns now. The civil war is over. The Slaves didn’t rebel. The English aren’t coming. It’s time to move on

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By *lanemikeMan
over a year ago

Bolton

Bothe last two msgs are interesting. One does wonder how bad it will have to become before they the perceive the necessity to change.... Maybe never...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Trump has spoken:

"Our nation must condemn racism, bigotry, and white supremacy."

He's a good egg.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

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By *ed-monkeyCouple
over a year ago

Hailsham

"Trump has spoken:

"Our nation must condemn racism, bigotry, and white supremacy."

He's a good egg."

His nation must ... but will he?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should all police be armed ?"

Yes, but they should receive adequate training, not just a shortened course because doing it properly is expensive.

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By *Man1263Man
over a year ago

Stockport

"No, the amount of people killed by guns is a small price to pay.

If guns were legal in the UK then the UK would be in danger of breaking apart.

Guns are legal in the US and it holds them together."

Guns are legal in the UK.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's not our problem, it's theirs. They're only going to fix it if they want to. I doubt that meaningful gun control will ever happen in the USA.

In the UK, after Hungerford and then Dunblane, our politicians, with our overwhelming consent, gave us very strict firearms control.

Different cultures. They accept mass shootings. We don't.

So was their total inaction after Whitehaven finally acceptance that it's the wrong approach?

Not sure what you mean...."

Hungerford: - ban semi-automatic rifles (except .22rf) and tighter controls on high capacity shotguns.

Dunblane: - ban small firearms, effectively the 'handgun ban', except muzzle loaders.

Whitehaven: - nothing at all

Is it because the first two made no difference (and were very expensive for HMG)?

Was it the realisation that mental health (violent traits) issues featured in all three cases so concentrate on trying to ensure that guns are not in the hands of those with such issues?

Banning the types of guns used in the first two did not prevent the third..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why does anyone need a gun?

To settle domestic disputes with neighbours?

No one needs a gun domestically. Anyone who says they do is very confused.

Access = Action.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

America has had more mass shootings than days this year.

In 2017 2,462 school-age children were killed by firearms.

When will they learn!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"America has had more mass shootings than days this year.

In 2017 2,462 school-age children were killed by firearms.

When will they learn! "

Shocking and saddening in equal measures.

No one needs a gun.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"America has had more mass shootings than days this year.

In 2017 2,462 school-age children were killed by firearms.

When will they learn!

Shocking and saddening in equal measures.

No one needs a gun. "

I disagree, some people need or have a use for guns. But it's the legislation that controls the type of gun and keeps them in short supply that many countries have but the USA lacks. Different states different laws, but nothing stopping you crossing state lines once you have bought your gun, also some shops with signs offering to convert semi automatics to fully automatic which I am pretty sure is illegal to own or buy but not to convert apparently.

I did go into an actual gun shop, and hire one to use on the target range, but all the guns people have offered to sell or even give to me on this trip were second hand with no paperwork.

Easier to buy a military grade firearm than beer with taste!

As I said above, their country, their choice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"America has had more mass shootings than days this year.

In 2017 2,462 school-age children were killed by firearms.

When will they learn!

Shocking and saddening in equal measures.

No one needs a gun.

I did go into an actual gun shop, and hire one to use on the target range, but all the guns people have offered to sell or even give to me on this trip were second hand with no paperwork.

Easier to buy a military grade firearm than beer with taste!

As I said above, their country, their choice."

Nobody chooses to be born into a country where it is very possible you could get shot at school!

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By *rontier PsychiatristMan
over a year ago

Coventry

Not saying that tighter gun control is a bad idea. But the USA is not the only developed country in the world where the ownership of small arms is fairly normal. But many of these other countries dont have anywhere near the same proportionality of gun related deaths. So maybe as well as gun control they should look at social, economical and cultural issuses within US society?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nobody chooses to be born into a country where it is very possible you could get shot at school! "

To be fair that is pretty much anywhere outside the EU, and the USA is better than many places people don't choose to be born into.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

0.0002256098 % if there were 40 mass shootings a year In the USA

0.0002222222 % if there were 4 hit and run incidents in Northern Ireland each year

Which is more deadly gun car or person

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By *uzukiNo1Woman
over a year ago

Rhyl

Who cares about other countries, start looking inward .....just finished watching 24 hours in police custody.....5 lives ruined one 19 year dead all because of a dirty look....knife crime in this country is far more prevalent than who,s carrying a gun in America ......4 kids in jail for life and one snuffed out before it even started....British lives, leave America sort their own shit out we have our own ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd like to know where the good guys with guns are when these shooting a happen

Americans and the love of guns is pathetic

There will come a point when drastic measures are taken as the tide is turning out there now.

Feeling the need to carry a gun to the shop does not make it the land of the free.the exact opposite in fact

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"Some official numbers :

In England and Wales in 2016-17, there were 31 fatal shootings - or one for every 1.9 million people. In the US, in contrast, there were 11,000 murders or manslaughters involving a firearm or one death for every 30,000 people.

Taken from a BBC news report last year

-------

I would imagine most of those were suicides. Is there a breakdown?"

No it doesn't include suicides, is says "murders or manslaughters"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally, I find any weapon designed with the sole intent of killing people evil. That's most hand guns, rifles and military guns. Stuff for hunting, sport, ranges, why not. I'd go to hunt game.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Who cares about other countries, start looking inward .....just finished watching 24 hours in police custody.....5 lives ruined one 19 year dead all because of a dirty look....knife crime in this country is far more prevalent than who,s carrying a gun in America ......4 kids in jail for life and one snuffed out before it even started....British lives, leave America sort their own shit out we have our own ... "

Knife crime in the UK is NOT more prevalent than gun crime in America. There are 40 gun deaths every day in the United States.

Stop spreading false information

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

5 people murdered in Liverpool in last 6 months after being shot. Over 100 firearm discharge incidents (reported).

Guarantee all gun owners were neither hunters or clay pigeon shooters.

Silly argument. Nobody needs a gun

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"0.0002256098 % if there were 40 mass shootings a year In the USA

0.0002222222 % if there were 4 hit and run incidents in Northern Ireland each year

Which is more deadly gun car or person "

A gun. Obviously. Stats don’t mask the fact that a gun is made to cause harm. A car isn’t.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let’s be totally honest... what doesn’t anyone “fear” so much that they need to arm themselves.

If guns were not created what would they do?

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By *kbull2000Man
over a year ago

Carluke

"Trump has spoken:

"Our nation must condemn racism, bigotry, and white supremacy."

He's a good egg."

God, but he's a moron! Remember the school shooting last year, after which he declared that the solution was to arm teachers? My mates wife went out and did exactly that. She's a lower school (primary) teacher and takes a gun into the classroom with her.

It's a cultural thing. Neither she nor he get why I wouldn't want guns and an armed teacher anywhere near children. Her classroom and the one next to hers, share a panic room. A former cupboard which has been lined with hardox steel and a breach proof door!

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By *kbull2000Man
over a year ago

Carluke

" Silly argument. Nobody needs a gun "

Have to disagree with you. Whilst the murders in Liverpool were committed using firearms. I very much doubt it was legally owned ones. Our own Home Office figures indicate that less than 1% of all gun crime is committed using legally owned firearms or shotguns, by their legally entitled owners.

Sadly, the greatest proportion of gun crime is created by criminals who completely ignore the law and are unconcerned by gun legislation. In most cases the firearms are either illegal, former eastern bloc sourced or bought/rented to order.

Also, I need a gun. I need a shotgun to compete in my perfectly legal clay pigeon sport. I'm actually quite good. I was once chosen to represent my country in Europe and had Olympic aspirations before breaking my arm, crashing a motorbike.

I need a small calibre rifle to control the vermin on the family farm. Thousands of similar folk make a living controlling the rats, rabbits and other vermin which detrimentally affect our agriculture's ability to produce the food which you benefit from. A fact which you'll become acutely aware off if we go down the hard bexit route and we can't import from Europe.

I also need a large calibre rifle to cull the old and infirm deer that would suffer a long, slow agonising death every winter through starvation and disease. There is no known predator for deer in the UK. Or would you rather we adopted similar practices like The Netherlands where the sight of starving, skeletal deer is common or NZ where large scale , indiscriminate poisoning is occassionally employed?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's one toxic mentality in my opinion. We're all human and deserve to live without fearing others might want to take it. Using imaginary borders created by people in power who never get the bad end of the stick in order to separate us is rather silly. Whether you live in Syria, Japan, UK, U.S. Israel, Russia etc. we shouldn't identify ourselves as us vs them. It's a sickening ideology.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Silly argument. Nobody needs a gun

I can understand evolution and the simplicity of controlling circumstances etc.

Hope u understand that you DONT need a gun to shoot clay pigeons. Don’t shoot them in the first place?

And please.. don’t get me started about the need for a gun for farming.

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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago

The South

""to an extent" not "dehydration" .

Sometimes auto correct is utterly bizarre.

Shoot it!!!!"

I "may" have laughed a bit too much at that.

Fine work Sir.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m sure we’d survive without guns..

They were created as war machines.. evolved from cannons and utilised as a means of killing humans - never for any domestic purposes.

No guns no one gets shot

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By *edp.e84Man
over a year ago

Reading

"With the latest mass murders in the usa this month, it happens everyday, but not all get reported, is it time for a tigher gun law? There is a gun for every person there, you can argue that a sane person dont reach for a gun, what is your view?"

I can't say much about the laws but mental health issues play a big part and how easy guns are to get

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By *kbull2000Man
over a year ago

Carluke

I can understand evolution and the simplicity of controlling circumstances etc.

Hope u understand that you DONT need a gun to shoot clay pigeons. Don’t shoot them in the first place?

And please.. don’t get me started about the need for a gun for farming.

Why shouldn't I shoot clay pigeons? It's a perfectly legal activity. Recognised as a sport internationally - by all sporting organisations including the Olympic committee. The UK actually do well competing.

Perhaps you'd rather dictate to the hundreds of thousands of legal, law abiding shotgun owners that they can't own and use because you don't like them? Legally, it is a UK citizen's right to own a shotgun unless they are violent, have been convicted of a crime resulting in over 2 months prison, they suffer a mental illness or are incapable of providing the necessary security arrangements.

The fact that you do not recognise the need for a firearm or shotgun for farming, merely demonstrates your ignorance of the agricultural industry. Should you wish to learn more, I recommend you research the devastation a boar, rabbits and other vermin can create on crops and livestock.

I recognise that firearms are an emotive subject. Fuelled by the media hysteria and the awful crimes committed, seemingly everyday in places like the USA, South America, etc. But the firearm is but a tool; it's the control and the culture in which it's used that must be considered.

Culturally, we in the UK require anyone using a firearm legally to be responsible for it's use and effect, to be a law abiding and 'sane' member of society. There is no reason for any private citizen to possess or use a firearm which you would recognise as a 'military,' full automatic. Nor may most have access to handguns. In my opinion, we have it about right.

The murders you mentioned in Liverpool are a tragedy. No-one would argue with you. But consider the fact that they were committed by criminals using illegal firearms. Our laws dictate that anyone caught with such a weapon should immediately be sentenced with at least 5 years imprisonment, yet it's rarely the case. The Home Office are loath to publish illegal firearms statistics because we are crap controlling the flow of weapons. If we forced them to actually separate the crimes committed by legally owned firearms and shotguns by their legal owners, from the totals, society would immediately demand why the rates off illegals is so disproportionate ; where are all the illegal weapons coming from and why are they so readily available to criminals?

Just my opinions. You're entitled to your own.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can buy guns at Asda Walmart in the us.

Also there is a very high number of siblings accidentally killed by parents weapons when not put away safely

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By *kbull2000Man
over a year ago

Carluke

"You can buy guns at Asda Walmart in the us.

Also there is a very high number of siblings accidentally killed by parents weapons when not put away safely"

Also true. It's madness. Totally a cultural thing. In the UK, anyone who can't provide a Home Office approved safe to which only they and no other person has access (even family), then they don't get permission. Simple.

It's one of the many conditions to which UK firearms owners must abide. Others include a doctor's report on your mental health and other illnesses upon the regular renewal procedure, doctors immediately reporting any significant changes. full declaration of any offences committed including speeding, the police having the right to enter your home and inspect your arrangements unannounced and without permission etc. Just imagine pushing those rules through the US legal system.

Common reasons for being refused the right to own here include having suffered from depression, drink driving or serious driving offences and anything violence related.

Compare that to Texas where people regularly mount unsecured rifles on the rear window of their trucks and it's common to see gun racks just inside the front door of shops. A polite reminder to leave them there until leaving. I lived there for 3 years.

Compare that to Sweden where members of their reserve armed forces are required to take their military rifle and 90 rounds of ammunition home with them. Upon completion of their service, they are then offered the option of keeping that rifle permanently. It's completely common to see folks at bus stops and train stations with their rifle slung over their backs. Usually on a Friday or Sunday evening as they travel to and from their bases. A friend once joked that anyone who tries to rob a bank on a Friday must be an idiot!

Completely cultural differences.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Trump has spoken:

"Our nation must condemn racism, bigotry, and white supremacy."

He's a good egg.

This shit is ( one reason) why my husband and I chose to bring our daughter to the Uk before she began school. I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t have her be like my best friend’s daughter who was standing on the toilet for days at home. Mom was getting irritated with the behaviour until she found out the kid was practicing hiding where you stand crouched on a toilet so your feet aren’t visible to a bad guy. Luckily for us, he’s British, our child is a dual citizen and we could leave. I grew up near sandy hook. My friends who I went to school with had children in that school, my friends were first responders, it hit so close to home. Since nothing will ever be done about gun tragedy in the US, it’s not the place we are raising our child. We no longer have to ask other parents if there is a gun in their home before our child can have a play date, or worry about a gun being found on the ground, or the ease of getting a gun in the hands of an unstable teen, or being shot by accident by a friend, or a toddler, or in a nightclub or in the mall, or in the street.

It’s a horrible situation and isn’t going to change. Now we have a child who may some day witness some idiots kicking each other’s heads in outside a pub, experience burglary or petty theft or assault of some kind, but she will not be taught starting at age 5 to be terrified of the world for her own safety. She will never be at risk of the last words she hears being a teacher saying “I love you” or watching a friend put themselves in the line of fire to save her. She can play in the woods and make guns out of sticks and has no idea how ominous her American mother finds her little games.

There’s no crime in the Uk that is comparable to the pervasive and insidious nature of guns as a culture. It’s a different society and unfortunately the half who value the guns over the people tend to be the ones in power. The sane half put on their smiles and try to pretend that they’re not always a little bit scared of living, but life goes on so you live. The same half that wants to keep the guns, votes against health care that would provide the mental health care that they say would fix the issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should all police be armed ?"

No they’re militarised and a liability. They’re aggressive and dangerous. It’s a chicken and egg situation. They need to be armed to cope with the civilians but they are defensive racist and trigger happy. Mr has had a couple terrifying run ins with the police and was saved solely by his white skin.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, the amount of people killed by guns is a small price to pay.

If guns were legal in the UK then the UK would be in danger of breaking apart.

Guns are legal in the US and it holds them together."

No. Many Americans disagree and feel even one life, especially when it’s an innocent child is a life too many. It doesn’t hold America together it’s the single most divisive topic amongst Americans.

No life is a small price to pay. That’s just horrible. Every life has value and means more than jimbo who needs 16 guns in his panic room because he’s a scared imbecile.

All the guns are owned by just under half the people. The rest of them don’t want them anywhere.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ok I really will stop. Sorry. 40 years in the Us and a lot of experience with the harm it can do and the mentality of the gun lovers. It’s a different culture and attitudes vary around the country. I won’t ever live there again because since 9/11 the love of guns increased and the fear increased and it’s just getting worse with the political state of things. Let’s go back to talking about sex now.

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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago

The South

" Silly argument. Nobody needs a gun

I can understand evolution and the simplicity of controlling circumstances etc.

Hope u understand that you DONT need a gun to shoot clay pigeons. Don’t shoot them in the first place?

And please.. don’t get me started about the need for a gun for farming.

May I ask what your hobbies are and what experience or knowledge of farming is please?

Thank you.

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By *uzukiNo1Woman
over a year ago

Rhyl

Knife crime in the UK is NOT more prevalent than gun crime in America. There are 40 gun deaths every day in the United States.

Stop spreading false information "

Eh????? Didn't say that DOH....who cares about what's happening over there when our kids are killing each other over here....stop spreading false info? Who are you the government.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Trump has spoken:

"Our nation must condemn racism, bigotry, and white supremacy."

He's a good egg.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"5 people murdered in Liverpool in last 6 months after being shot. Over 100 firearm discharge incidents (reported).

Guarantee all gun owners were neither hunters or clay pigeon shooters.

Silly argument. Nobody needs a gun "

Nobody needs alcohol, and that's behind far more acts of violence than gun ownership..

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By *lanemikeMan
over a year ago

Bolton

"5 people murdered in Liverpool in last 6 months after being shot. Over 100 firearm discharge incidents (reported).

Guarantee all gun owners were neither hunters or clay pigeon shooters.

Silly argument. Nobody needs a gun

Nobody needs alcohol, and that's behind far more acts of violence than gun ownership.."

That may be true but how many incidents involving alcohol end in a fatality??

If you are shot the chances of a fatality are high.

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By *otfabcouple2017Couple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"Should all police be armed ?

Police officers in the US kill more white people than they do black people. That is the official FBI statistic - look it up if you doubt me. The blacklivesmatter movement spread a lot of mis information and some outright false information. To call all police officers "aggressive,racist and trigger happy" seems a bit harsh.

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By *otfabcouple2017Couple
over a year ago

Nottingham

"You can buy guns at Asda Walmart in the us.

Also there is a very high number of siblings accidentally killed by parents weapons when not put away safely"

When you say "very number of siblings accidentally killed" what are the figures?

I think you will find those instances are extremely rare.

Regarding the Walmart comment, whilst yes they do sell firearms,Buying guns in the US isn't as easy as you think - look into it if you doubt me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should all police be armed ?

It isn’t all- but it is an institutionalised problem that exists across the country. I know the statistics of who is killed more , I didn’t state otherwise. I said that they are racist, which is, in my experience and that of friends and family, 100 percent accurate. I’m not one to believe misinformation but there is an issue with racial profiling, assumption of guilt and harassment of citizens who are not behaving in a criminal manner, because of the colour of their skin. Some of the issue is citizens reporting black People for existing in their space but this post isn’t about the crisis of racism in the US.

Someone asked should the police be armed and I expressed my opinion based on 40 years living in the US. The police are very aggressive and it’s terrifying. I am sure there are great police officers, unfortunately they don’t stand up against the system and the bad eggs which perpetuates the problem.

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By *oachman 9CoolMan
over a year ago

derby

"Many people in the US support gun control, but the NRA have enough politicians in their pockets to prevent any action. The political system in America is blatantly corrupt. There is little hope of any change in the foreseeable future."
Yes quite sad the NRA sound like a organisation run by gangsters or similar..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good no killing people while using guns everyone

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

Everyone I know who has lived both in America and the UK agrees.... Armed police don't help matters but serious limits on gun ownership do.

I've lived in both countries myself, as have a lot of friends, partners etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Guns are guns people are people no matter what we do they will always be there ban all guns and we will just find something else to use it's a human trait so only way to stop it would be to eradicate human life which is not a bad idea

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By *ildbillkidMan
over a year ago

where the road goes on forever

Enough, 127 comments not one about saying a prayer for the victims or their families, i read this last night and wasnt going to say anything , but enough of the pointing fingers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Enough, 127 comments not one about saying a prayer for the victims or their families, i read this last night and wasnt going to say anything , but enough of the pointing fingers "

Prayers to who? What practical use would they be?

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By *kbull2000Man
over a year ago

Carluke

May I ask what your hobbies are and what experience or knowledge of farming is please?

Thank you.

I'm the product of at least 3 generations of farmers, apparently. Fathers is mixed arable - he grows the spuds for your crisps. Both grandfathers were mostly cattle. Several members of the family ( cousins, uncle and aunt) also farmers. I'm considered the unreliable one because I 'ran away' to the Army.

Spent over 10 years in the Army before getting injured. Now spend my time between lecturing and occassional deer culling, mainly for the RSPB.

Hobbies: Clay pigeon (sporting and skeet) - since forever. I got my first shotgun when about 14 but had loaned family members guns under supervision, for years before. Not so much now due to injuries.

Deer stalking - God knows....maybe 20 years? Fully qualified,insured, blah, blah, blah.

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By *kbull2000Man
over a year ago

Carluke

Moving on...too emotive a subject and a discussion going nowhere .

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By * Plus ECouple
over a year ago

The South

May I ask what your hobbies are and what experience or knowledge of farming is please?

Thank you.

Spent over 10 years in the Army before getting injured. Now spend my time between lecturing and occassional deer culling, mainly for the RSPB.

Deer stalking - God knows....maybe 20 years? Fully qualified,insured, blah, blah, blah. "

My question wasn't aimed at you...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also as some say it's America so who cares we have are own shit to sort out if they want to have guns that's there problem if they don't they should do something about it ie vote for a different party that way nra cannot bribe them just saying

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"5 people murdered in Liverpool in last 6 months after being shot. Over 100 firearm discharge incidents (reported).

Guarantee all gun owners were neither hunters or clay pigeon shooters.

Silly argument. Nobody needs a gun

Nobody needs alcohol, and that's behind far more acts of violence than gun ownership..

That may be true but how many incidents involving alcohol end in a fatality??

If you are shot the chances of a fatality are high. "

In 2017 there were 7697 alcohol specific deaths in the UK, includind @30% of all driving fatalities.

26 firearms fatalities in the same year.

Contrary to popular belief, more people survive gunshot injuries than die of them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should all police be armed ?

Most black people killed in the US, are killed by black people, which is common in many other countries too..

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By *lair101TV/TS
over a year ago

Aberdeen, westhill

Usual media metldown over this, but they are very quiet about the yearly murder rate in Chicago.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I honestly believe any weapon designed to kill people is evil. Be it a fun, blade, poison gas or whatever. As is it's designer.

What do you think?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find it terrifying that so many people have free access to these weapons. I don’t think it will ever change, but I wish it really would.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I honestly believe any weapon designed to kill people is evil. Be it a fun, blade, poison gas or whatever. As is it's designer.

What do you think?"

Sporting firearms aren't designed to kill people any more than hire vans or kitchen knives.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When the amendments were written local militia used muskets. Now you can buy automatic rifles. The right to bear arms hasn't kept up with killing technology.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should all police be armed ?

Most black people killed in the US, are killed by black people, which is common in many other countries too.."

And most white people are killed by white people.

I don’t care what race people are, the guns are the bigger issue that has led to a crisis including the increasing aggressive reactivity of the majority of police officers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Also as some say it's America so who cares we have are own shit to sort out if they want to have guns that's there problem if they don't they should do something about it ie vote for a different party that way nra cannot bribe them just saying"

The guns are owned by roughly half of the population and that half is the same half that leads in corruption, lobbying and making money off of the NRA, there’s nothing individuals can do, there have been many presidents who supported gun control but the various government branches block any movement in that direction. It’s been deadlocked for years. It’s not down to voters as half still cuddle their guns and run the good old boys club that make up the US government. People who believe in gun control DO vote that way. They don’t just cry about it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Enough, 127 comments not one about saying a prayer for the victims or their families, i read this last night and wasnt going to say anything , but enough of the pointing fingers "

The prayers don’t work. That’s America’s other biggest problem. Americans offer prayers, and more than that, we have all sat crying more than once over the loss of life in a pit of helplessness over it as our votes and wishes just don’t matter and in a rage that half the country cares more about wearing a gun to Walmart because it’s their right, than the loss of life. Thoughts and prayers do nothing.

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By *ocketman99Man
over a year ago

fermanagh

If you had no guns, people Would have a very hard time shooting other people

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By *unshine05Man
over a year ago

Sherborne

Guns don't kill people rappers do,

I seen it in a documentary on BBC2,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What about the children who have gotten hold of their parents gun and shot their sibling or other family member not realising it's loaded?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What about the children who have gotten hold of their parents gun and shot their sibling or other family member not realising it's loaded?

That's poor gun safety on the part of the owner. I know a number of people who support 2A rights in the US and they would all lay the blame squarely at the owner of the gun in this case. It is their right to own a gun, but it also comes with the responsibility to secure it and be accountable for every bullet it fires.

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By *tsonlysexCouple
over a year ago

bedford

I have not read the whole thread. But personally feel our knife crime here is getting worse by the day

We are fortunate to own a holiday home in Cyprus. My friend lives there with her 8 year old son

A customer gave him a few euros so I took him to local shop as burning hole in pocket

He wanted to buy a knife. I said why he told me protection. I said you are 8 in Cyprus. But he grew up in Essex. And it is what his mum’s partners instilled into him

We got sweets

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By *achel SmythTV/TS
over a year ago

Farnborough

I’ve just seen this reinvigorated thread.

I have spent quite a bit of time in the states and as others have said, it is ingrained in their culture and may seem alien to us.

What I do find bizarre though is that as others have said you can walk into Walmart and buy guns and ammunition just as you would other groceries ..... but did you know that Kinder Eggs are banned in America as they are a threat to public safety!!!

If you feel the inclination, watch the video in YouTube by the Australian comedian Jim Jeffries on American gun law .... very funny and poignant. Apparently he’s had death threats from Americans as a result.

R xx

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By *tella HeelsTV/TS
over a year ago

west here ford shire

It’s temptation when a gun is easily available then people who live dangerous lives will have a gun to hand to protect them self from similar type of people.

If the gun wasn’t there it would dramatically reduce the amount of murders. However, these outcasts of decency will use other weapons as is shown here in the U.K. where knife deaths are more common place.

I think humankind needs to radically look at itself and ask why?

Why do we need to murder, drape, kill, thieve, create war?

We are still ignoring this is the real problem, we cannot get on with other creeds, political difference or religious beliefs other than our own..

Sorry I ranted on s bit there...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why do we need to murder, drape, kill, thieve, create war?

We are still ignoring this is the real problem, we cannot get on with other creeds, political difference or religious beliefs other than our own..

Sorry I ranted on s bit there...

Being territorial is natural behaviour for most animals, being tribal is an extension for social animals.

Despite our claims as a species to be masters of our own destiny, even to be the most intelligent of the fauna, we still feel the fear of threat when someone else pisses on our tree.

Gun, knife, nuke, or plank with a nail humans are no more socially evolved than chimps.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why do we need to murder, drape, kill, thieve, create war?

We are still ignoring this is the real problem, we cannot get on with other creeds, political difference or religious beliefs other than our own..

Sorry I ranted on s bit there...

Being territorial is natural behaviour for most animals, being tribal is an extension for social animals.

Despite our claims as a species to be masters of our own destiny, even to be the most intelligent of the fauna, we still feel the fear of threat when someone else pisses on our tree.

Gun, knife, nuke, or plank with a nail humans are no more socially evolved than chimps.

oh dear!!!

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By *oppolocosTV/TS
over a year ago

inverurie

The argument that guns don't kill people do only leads to one conclusion, Americans can't be trusted with guns!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The argument that guns don't kill people do only leads to one conclusion, Americans can't be trusted with guns!"

The whole world has an issue with guns. For some reason, a large majority of the UK think they are an authority on the USA, a foreign country. Mexico, Chile, Syria etc etc...lorra lorra gun deaths there too?

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By *lue_dogMan
over a year ago

Littlehampton

"I dont see the fascination with guns. They're ugly things.

I've had my fill of them.

Glue guns are useful ... and nail guns"

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan
over a year ago

Den of Iniquity

"Easy access to guns = more gun crime

Not rocket science"
Exactly this. It's no different to if they legalised heroin and sold it legally in shops . There would be more addicts , simple

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Erm I think you will find that guns don't kill people rappers do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My view is that people can't be trusted with them, simple as. Accidents happen and there is zero need for any of us to own guns.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Erm I think you will find that guns don't kill people rappers do"

Did you learn about on a documentary from BBC2?

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

The argument that guns don't kill people do only leads to one conclusion, Americans can't be trusted with guns!

Personally I think when those comment on gun usage in the US it’s linked to the shootings that happen in schools. It happened once here and guns were then banned and banished to gun clubs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Easy access to guns = more gun crime

Not rocket science Exactly this. It's no different to if they legalised heroin and sold it legally in shops . There would be more addicts , simple

Not true. With society reinvesting funds made through drugs sales and usage of cannabis and ecstasy.. They could provide a medical and educational service that'd stop most trying it to begin with. Thatd care for not criminalise those with addictions. Getting to the root of the traumas that set them down those paths quicker, changing lives for the better, faster.

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

Unless you've been raised in the USA, and understand the underpinnings of the second amendment, you may struggle to understand why people in America who own guns will not relinquish them. In my younger years I was very much in favour of extreme gun control and had a low opinion of those that defended the right to keep and bear them, especially in the face of mass shootings.

Life experience and some maturity has completely flipped this opinion. Were I living there now, I would certainly have them and be properly trained in their use and handling. The USA isn't the only country where citizenry can possess firearms, yet it's where most of these massacres occur. I think this is due to a number of factors, most notably the worrying levels of mental health affecting a large segment of the population. It's no small surprise that most of these mass shooters were disturbed individuals and the vast majority where on antidepressants and anti-psychotics; that have a record of reinforcing the very effects they claim to prevent. Other factors, such as a violence culture plays a part i'm sure.

Fact of the matter is that an armed populace is a guard against totalitarianism and this is the safeguard of the 2nd amendment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The argument that guns don't kill people do only leads to one conclusion, Americans can't be trusted with guns!

Perhaps many of us know a lot about the USA?

Mexico wouldn't have a gun problem if USA didnt sell guns AND have Prohibition drug policy. Most of South America are a slave to these US political decisions.

As for Syria, our army was alongside the US in helping create the Syrian crisis. It's a war.. not people like you and me walking round the street with a beretta in our jean's.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they take citizens firearms the US government will incite the Boogaloo

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Unless you've been raised in the USA, and understand the underpinnings of the second amendment, you may struggle to understand why people in America who own guns will not relinquish them. In my younger years I was very much in favour of extreme gun control and had a low opinion of those that defended the right to keep and bear them, especially in the face of mass shootings.

Fact of the matter is that an armed populace is a guard against totalitarianism and this is the safeguard of the 2nd amendment. "

That's bullshit, sorry Chill, I dont mean to be rude.

You dont need to be, or have lived in the States to understand a political bill and the effect it has on it's people.

I've heard that argument used loads of times. Fact of the matter is, some very influential people make lots of money selling weapons designed to kill other humans. They make billions a day in global conflict, millions in personal arms sales and munitions.

The US is not a Democratic country, it's a two party capitalist state run by business leaders. Much like every other Nation in the Western Power Block.

Guns are available in many countries, but USA is by far and away the winner in massacre crimes. Which I suppose supports all our argument that Americans (as a society) aren't mentally healthy enough to carry.

I shot my Sgt in the chest with a blank round, the shit that came out the end could have really hurt him, we were both very lucky.

That came from a loose saftey catch and a little bit of panicking.. After we'd been given all the lessons on rifles. US troops were allowed to carry loaded M16s with live ammunition, into barrack areas.

After seeing how easy it is to fire accidentally.. It horrified me to see all those loaded weapons whilst trying to eat my dinner.

I know guys who've been shot in live firing exercises. Trained, experienced weapon handlers.

Hence my strong feelings on gun ownership.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The argument that guns don't kill people do only leads to one conclusion, Americans can't be trusted with guns!

Perhaps many of us know a lot about the USA?

Mexico wouldn't have a gun problem if USA didnt sell guns AND have Prohibition drug policy. Most of South America are a slave to these US political decisions.

As for Syria, our army was alongside the US in helping create the Syrian crisis. It's a war.. not people like you and me walking round the street with a beretta in our jean's.

I'm not pro gun. I've carried one for most of my life, and outside of work I had no interest.

People besotted by them rather disturbed me.

My point is, having travelled North America extensively, is why does the UK think they have some moral right over the USA.

I've sat in bars and seen people prove clear prior to entering, and thought its ridiculous...but not my place to tell them otherwise.

Not everywhere in the world brandishing guns is a war zone. You should know that. It's just that they form part of their identity...be it crazy or not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The argument that guns don't kill people do only leads to one conclusion, Americans can't be trusted with guns!

Perhaps many of us know a lot about the USA?

Mexico wouldn't have a gun problem if USA didnt sell guns AND have Prohibition drug policy. Most of South America are a slave to these US political decisions.

As for Syria, our army was alongside the US in helping create the Syrian crisis. It's a war.. not people like you and me walking round the street with a beretta in our jean's.

I'm not pro gun. I've carried one for most of my life, and outside of work I had no interest.

People besotted by them rather disturbed me.

My point is, having travelled North America extensively, is why does the UK think they have some moral right over the USA.

I've sat in bars and seen people prove clear prior to entering, and thought its ridiculous...but not my place to tell them otherwise.

Not everywhere in the world brandishing guns is a war zone. You should know that. It's just that they form part of their identity...be it crazy or not."

Then we've a right to question that potentially crazy behaviour?

I grew up in countries where there were guns But only when I set foot on the American continents, did I hear them.. semi regularly.. used in anger.

I just can't see a need to own one unless everyone else has one. If everyone had one here, I'd leave. Not a moral judgement, more risk assessment.

Its madness.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

I'll probably be called a loony lefty here but personally I think the world would be at least a mildly better place if they had never been invented.

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

"That's bullshit, sorry Chill, I dont mean to be rude.

You dont need to be, or have lived in the States to understand a political bill and the effect it has on it's people.

The US is not a Democratic country, it's a two party capitalist state run by business leaders. Much like every other Nation in the Western Power Block.

I shot my Sgt in the chest with a blank round, the shit that came out the end could have really hurt him, we were both very lucky.

After seeing how easy it is to fire accidentally.. It horrified me to see all those loaded weapons whilst trying to eat my dinner.

I know guys who've been shot in live firing exercises. Trained, experienced weapon handlers.

Hence my strong feelings on gun ownership. "

I won't dispute that weapons are a lucrative enterprise, but the profits of handguns and rifles are a drop in a bucket for the military industrial complex that rules the United States and Eisenhower warned about in his farewell address. The founding fathers were clear in their belief that an armed, aware and educated citizenry was the guard against centralised overreach and totalitarianism. Every terrible regime; bolsheviks, nazis, maoists, the shah, pinochet etc thrived in countries where the population was essentially defenceless.

A very interesting stat. Close knit communities in "red neck" flyover country where virtually everyone owns guns have the lowest levels of violent crime and gun related deaths in the country.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The gun lobby is too strong in the States. .Obama tried and got no where..they carry a lot of political power...alas it's a rod for theit own back

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

"I'll probably be called a loony lefty here but personally I think the world would be at least a mildly better place if they had never been invented."

Violence would still occur and people would be senselessly snuffed out. The world would be a better place if more people respected the sanctity of life

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"I'll probably be called a loony lefty here but personally I think the world would be at least a mildly better place if they had never been invented.

Violence would still occur and people would be senselessly snuffed out. The world would be a better place if more people respected the sanctity of life

Of course, but certain things are vastly more capable of killing more people in short spaces of time than others. Also I'll never be pro anything that has no other purpose than violence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I need my gun to defend myself and my property!!!

That’s why it’s called an ASSAULT rifle not a defend rifle

Mmmerriicaaaaa

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I see a lot of people saying that there is no need for any guns at all, however they have a lot of uses as tools in the UK. Most of the game meat you see for sale has come from people hunting as part of carefully planned population management of animals. There is also a register with the police where lawful firearms owners can advise that they are available for humane dispatch. So if an animal is run over and firearms officers or a vet cannot attend in good time, local police contact them to assist in putting them down. Not to mention pest control that doesn't require leaving poison all over the place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Good guns everyone.

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By *inkycreamCouple
over a year ago

manchester

I used them as my profession for some time, can argue both sides. The individual who takes one and uses on another person, is often found with other items such as swords cross bow etc take one they find another.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That's bullshit, sorry Chill, I dont mean to be rude.

You dont need to be, or have lived in the States to understand a political bill and the effect it has on it's people.

The US is not a Democratic country, it's a two party capitalist state run by business leaders. Much like every other Nation in the Western Power Block.

I shot my Sgt in the chest with a blank round, the shit that came out the end could have really hurt him, we were both very lucky.

After seeing how easy it is to fire accidentally.. It horrified me to see all those loaded weapons whilst trying to eat my dinner.

I know guys who've been shot in live firing exercises. Trained, experienced weapon handlers.

Hence my strong feelings on gun ownership.

A very interesting stat. Close knit communities in "red neck" flyover country where virtually everyone owns guns have the lowest levels of violent crime and gun related deaths in the country. "

We and the US are ruled by the same thing and have been for a long time now. Media. Also owned by same kind of people. Media doesn't care if you've guns or not, unless it wants you to turn them to its purpose.

Social Media, while it remains relatively free, is the counterbalance.

Now we can pick our news sources and educate ourselves, each other. Rather than what the British Broadcasting Corporation or Fox news think we should and shouldn't see.

I think society is the cause of many, if not all the mental health problems many seem to be suffering en mass. Evolutionarily speaking, our brains are still geared towards hunter/gatherer, close knit tribal bonds. Yet we're sold soulless cubicles in anonymous cities, where nobody talks and everyone is lonely. Problem children aren't spotted and nobody cares.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I have done a new thread we can continue on

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