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Why can't men wear dresses?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I don't mean just for wanking on a webcam, I mean for everyday use?

Driving to work this morning, I passed a lady getting out of her car in a summery dress. I got to thinking; what a fabulous way to dress for work on a hot and stuffy day like this.

There's me in a full sleeve shirt and shoes that feel like space suit boots, already feeling too hot and there's her in half an ounce of cotton and a pair of leather ribbons acting as shoes.

It's a man's world? Not in the summer it ain't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Women have more choices in clothing

Mens clothes are invariably boring conurtations on existing design

Step away from it and you're seen as freaky

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

Men should wear dresses they should dress how the please but they would look very feminine dresses are very womanly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

On a side note, one of my friends wears blouses

Coupled with the other clothes he wears, he looks cool (in my eyes at least)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Men can wear dresses!

Some people might not like it, but there's no rules to say they can't!

If you wanna wear a dress, wear a dress!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Men should wear dresses they should dress how the please but they would look very feminine dresses are very womanly "

There must be a way of making a masculine dress, the jocks get away with it.

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT


"Men should wear dresses they should dress how the please but they would look very feminine dresses are very womanly

There must be a way of making a masculine dress, the jocks get away with it."

Would be nice to see x

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By *uzzy NavelWoman
over a year ago

so near and yet so far....


"Men should wear dresses they should dress how the please but they would look very feminine dresses are very womanly

There must be a way of making a masculine dress, the jocks get away with it."

Ha ha but have you ever seen any with very tanned knees?

The Asians have their own unique style of keeping cool too..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A fair while ago David Beckham wore a Sarong in public.

He looked ultra-cool.

Very practical in this sticky heat as well.

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

You see men in long skirts on catwalks all over the world most look great

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think build and age has a lot to do with it

My friend is very slightly built and in his 20's

I've just asked him what he's wearing for work today

Orange nike boots, womens combat pants, a white vest and an orange silk blouse

He gets away with it

I'd look a right tit

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Men can wear dresses!

Some people might not like it, but there's no rules to say they can't!

If you wanna wear a dress, wear a dress! "

I've got a site meeting today.

Hi-viz - check

Hard hat - check

Safety shoes - check

Safety glasses - check

Little flower number - eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Men can wear dresses!

Some people might not like it, but there's no rules to say they can't!

If you wanna wear a dress, wear a dress!

I've got a site meeting today.

Hi-viz - check

Hard hat - check

Safety shoes - check

Safety glasses - check

Little flower number - eh?"

Well even women would have to wear something more practical in that case...throw on a frock when you get home

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By *o_eye_deerMan
over a year ago

The South Near That London


"Women have more choices in clothing

Mens clothes are invariably boring conurtations on existing design

Step away from it and you're seen as freaky "

And yet in Regency times it was the opposite, it was the victorians that made flamboyant dressing a social no-no, and we’ve never really thrown that attitude off.

I’ve worn a kilt at a wedding, a sarong on holiday and dressed as Frank N Furter for Rocky Horror; apart from remembering not to manspread when seated they were all pleasant experiences, got plenty of female attention at the Rocky Horror night, but not sure I’d wear any to a business meeting at a trading estate in Guildford.

I think most of us, no matter how individual we try or want to be, we seem to need to fit in and to be accepted by mainstream society - I truely envy and respect those that do just say ‘fuck it’ and wear/be, whatever/whoever they want, must be incredibly liberating

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Men used to wear dresses, if you go back in history its a thing in time, culture and fashion. If enough men did it then it would tip the balance again to be acceptable. I agree men's clothes are far too uncomfortable, hot and restictive. Love it when I wear my kilt. Mr

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Men can wear dresses!

Some people might not like it, but there's no rules to say they can't!

If you wanna wear a dress, wear a dress!

I've got a site meeting today.

Hi-viz - check

Hard hat - check

Safety shoes - check

Safety glasses - check

Little flower number - eh?

Well even women would have to wear something more practical in that case...throw on a frock when you get home "

I can wear shorts at home, I'm not allowed at work. My assistant wears dresses no longer than my shorts,* it's not fair.

*insert pervy eyebrow movement emoji here.

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By *uzzy NavelWoman
over a year ago

so near and yet so far....


"Men can wear dresses!

Some people might not like it, but there's no rules to say they can't!

If you wanna wear a dress, wear a dress!

I've got a site meeting today.

Hi-viz - check

Hard hat - check

Safety shoes - check

Safety glasses - check

Little flower number - eh?"

So you’d not feel sympathy for ladies who wear killer heels every day?

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

The thing is if a man wore a dress he would get laughed at society would pick on him his mates would laugh at him but it takes a strong guy to wear a dress.

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT


"Men can wear dresses!

Some people might not like it, but there's no rules to say they can't!

If you wanna wear a dress, wear a dress!

I've got a site meeting today.

Hi-viz - check

Hard hat - check

Safety shoes - check

Safety glasses - check

Little flower number - eh?

So you’d not feel sympathy for ladies who wear killer heels every day?"

That's a choice they make.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

They should be able to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They should be able to. "

I thought they could. In fact I’m almost sure they can if they want to

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It all depends on whether you care what other people think

I have to wear a boiling uniform to work in a building where the central heating is always on the men are allowed to wear shorts - not fair

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"They should be able to.

I thought they could. In fact I’m almost sure they can if they want to "

Well, they should be able to without social censure

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They should be able to.

I thought they could. In fact I’m almost sure they can if they want to

Well, they should be able to without social censure "

True

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Try shorts then

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT


"Try shorts then"

He's shy

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By *uzzy NavelWoman
over a year ago

so near and yet so far....


"Men can wear dresses!

Some people might not like it, but there's no rules to say they can't!

If you wanna wear a dress, wear a dress!

I've got a site meeting today.

Hi-viz - check

Hard hat - check

Safety shoes - check

Safety glasses - check

Little flower number - eh?

So you’d not feel sympathy for ladies who wear killer heels every day?

That's a choice they make."

I agree, but in certain jobs, you’d be expected/encouraged to look glamorous so heels would be encouraged...

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT


"Men can wear dresses!

Some people might not like it, but there's no rules to say they can't!

If you wanna wear a dress, wear a dress!

I've got a site meeting today.

Hi-viz - check

Hard hat - check

Safety shoes - check

Safety glasses - check

Little flower number - eh?

So you’d not feel sympathy for ladies who wear killer heels every day?

That's a choice they make.

I agree, but in certain jobs, you’d be expected/encouraged to look glamorous so heels would be encouraged... "

True x

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By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon


"Men should wear dresses they should dress how the please but they would look very feminine dresses are very womanly

There must be a way of making a masculine dress, the jocks get away with it."

But do they ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Men have a formal outfit (suit, shirt, tie, shoes) and especially aim black, but women do not.

It always bothers me watching female MPs in the commons dress as they please, some almost casual than formal and really bright colours/designs.

I support women dressing in business suits and the "idea" of men not dressing as they like (casual, dresses, etc,). However, I do believe there are times and places that formal suits for men and women should be worn. This is the government, in formal debate, on national television. All MPs should be required to wear suits

Both men and women!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Men can wear dresses!

Some people might not like it, but there's no rules to say they can't!

If you wanna wear a dress, wear a dress!

I've got a site meeting today.

Hi-viz - check

Hard hat - check

Safety shoes - check

Safety glasses - check

Little flower number - eh?

So you’d not feel sympathy for ladies who wear killer heels every day?"

The girl I saw this morning just had little strappies on.

No socks = heaven

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38


"Men can wear dresses!

Some people might not like it, but there's no rules to say they can't!

If you wanna wear a dress, wear a dress!

I've got a site meeting today.

Hi-viz - check

Hard hat - check

Safety shoes - check

Safety glasses - check

Little flower number - eh?"

That made me smile but Eileen is right. You wouldn't expect to see a woman in a pretty floral number in that scenario.

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

Some of you manly men wear a dress and show us.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I assume masculine dresses wouldn't be floral, they'd be like stripes or something. Although rock the flowers if you want...

Dresses come with their own issues tbh.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

And yeah, heels are really bad for you.

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT


"And yeah, heels are really bad for you. "

I know

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By *tella HeelsTV/TS
over a year ago

west here ford shire

I love wearing them it’s very liberating

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I assume masculine dresses wouldn't be floral, they'd be like stripes or something. Although rock the flowers if you want...

Dresses come with their own issues tbh. "

At least that could wear a nice strapless one and not worry about boobs! So many dresses I can’t wear

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"And yeah, heels are really bad for you.

I know "

I wear them too, but the pressure to wear them is a problem.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I assume masculine dresses wouldn't be floral, they'd be like stripes or something. Although rock the flowers if you want...

Dresses come with their own issues tbh. "

Do they do them in hi-viz?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I assume masculine dresses wouldn't be floral, they'd be like stripes or something. Although rock the flowers if you want...

Dresses come with their own issues tbh.

At least that could wear a nice strapless one and not worry about boobs! So many dresses I can’t wear "

*they

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By *uciyassMan
over a year ago

Barnsley

Who says we can’t.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"I assume masculine dresses wouldn't be floral, they'd be like stripes or something. Although rock the flowers if you want...

Dresses come with their own issues tbh.

Do they do them in hi-viz?"

Probably! But I suspect wearing them where you need hi viz is unwise!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wouldn't it be great if there was a nationwide "protest" type thing against mens business/workwear being a sexist?

A big protest in London outside parliament on national news with all men wearing dresses + holding signs. With hundreds of people at work who support it turning up in dresses to!

It would be the next biggest revolution after women's and gay rights. It would be covered worldwide, Europeans would support the idea, Americans would think we were crazy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Those tunic things the greeks used to wear were pretty cool and manly. Leather sandals too. Perfect summer get up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Those tunic things the greeks used to wear were pretty cool and manly. Leather sandals too. Perfect summer get up"

I reckon some men on here would look quite hot in a toga

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 16/07/19 09:10:49]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Those tunic things the greeks used to wear were pretty cool and manly. Leather sandals too. Perfect summer get up

I reckon some men on here would look quite hot in a toga "

Absolutely yes,and the sandals all strapped up to the knees.

The Spartans got away with wearing dresses and they were pretty damn sexy too

Not that you men have to wear dresses just to be sexy for us women of course. Although it would be nice

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By *o_eye_deerMan
over a year ago

The South Near That London


"Wouldn't it be great if there was a nationwide "protest" type thing against mens business/workwear being a sexist?

A big protest in London outside parliament on national news with all men wearing dresses + holding signs. With hundreds of people at work who support it turning up in dresses to!

It would be the next biggest revolution after women's and gay rights. It would be covered worldwide, Europeans would support the idea, Americans would think we were crazy"

Nah we’d rather be in the pub - we don’t like to make a fuss, I could see it being successful in France, they really know how to do protests!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Do you think if straight guys started wearing dresses the tvs and crossdressers on here would start dressing as builders or miners, c/w dirty faces?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Those tunic things the greeks used to wear were pretty cool and manly. Leather sandals too. Perfect summer get up

I reckon some men on here would look quite hot in a toga

Absolutely yes,and the sandals all strapped up to the knees.

The Spartans got away with wearing dresses and they were pretty damn sexy too

Not that you men have to wear dresses just to be sexy for us women of course. Although it would be nice"

Maybe a pic challenge not that difficult. A sheet and a belt?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Those tunic things the greeks used to wear were pretty cool and manly. Leather sandals too. Perfect summer get up

I reckon some men on here would look quite hot in a toga

Absolutely yes,and the sandals all strapped up to the knees.

The Spartans got away with wearing dresses and they were pretty damn sexy too

Not that you men have to wear dresses just to be sexy for us women of course. Although it would be nice

Maybe a pic challenge not that difficult. A sheet and a belt? "

a a nice big crunchy beard

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By *rwolfMan
over a year ago

bristol

Men can wear dresses, anyone else remember Beckham in the 90's wearing a sarong? And let's not forget the Scots have been wearing kilts since the dawn of time really.

So two "manly" options right there.

It's also worth pointing out that there are tribes across the globe where men where, what Western society would deem as a skirt.

So why not just embrace another culture of you feel that way

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By *o_eye_deerMan
over a year ago

The South Near That London


"Those tunic things the greeks used to wear were pretty cool and manly. Leather sandals too. Perfect summer get up

I reckon some men on here would look quite hot in a toga

Absolutely yes,and the sandals all strapped up to the knees.

The Spartans got away with wearing dresses and they were pretty damn sexy too

Not that you men have to wear dresses just to be sexy for us women of course. Although it would be nice"

I’ve always said it must have been great to have been a Roman, any culture that worships a deity devoted to hedonist pleasures can’t have been bad; certainly beats going to confession and having to say Hail Mary’s as penance

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By *innie The MinxWoman
over a year ago

Under the Duvet


"The thing is if a man wore a dress he would get laughed at society would pick on him his mates would laugh at him but it takes a strong guy to wear a dress."

I'd love to see more men in dresses.

Nirvana always looked fantastic in theirs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Those tunic things the greeks used to wear were pretty cool and manly. Leather sandals too. Perfect summer get up

I reckon some men on here would look quite hot in a toga

Absolutely yes,and the sandals all strapped up to the knees.

The Spartans got away with wearing dresses and they were pretty damn sexy too

Not that you men have to wear dresses just to be sexy for us women of course. Although it would be nice

Maybe a pic challenge not that difficult. A sheet and a belt?

a a nice big crunchy beard"

Nah I’ll pass on the beard

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By *ulfilthmentMan
over a year ago

Just around the corner


"Men should wear dresses they should dress how the please but they would look very feminine dresses are very womanly "

I’m sure there are enterprising designers out there who would be happy to work on the problem. Perhaps a techno-plaid/kilt is the way forward.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Those tunic things the greeks used to wear were pretty cool and manly. Leather sandals too. Perfect summer get up

I reckon some men on here would look quite hot in a toga

Absolutely yes,and the sandals all strapped up to the knees.

The Spartans got away with wearing dresses and they were pretty damn sexy too

Not that you men have to wear dresses just to be sexy for us women of course. Although it would be nice

I’ve always said it must have been great to have been a Roman, any culture that worships a deity devoted to hedonist pleasures can’t have been bad; certainly beats going to confession and having to say Hail Mary’s as penance "

Absolutely they seemed much more accepting of sex in all its forms.

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By *innie The MinxWoman
over a year ago

Under the Duvet


"Men have a formal outfit (suit, shirt, tie, shoes) and especially aim black, but women do not.

It always bothers me watching female MPs in the commons dress as they please, some almost casual than formal and really bright colours/designs.

I support women dressing in business suits and the "idea" of men not dressing as they like (casual, dresses, etc,). However, I do believe there are times and places that formal suits for men and women should be worn. This is the government, in formal debate, on national television. All MPs should be required to wear suits

Both men and women! "

That's interesting, why?

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By *nabelle21Woman
over a year ago

B38


"Those tunic things the greeks used to wear were pretty cool and manly. Leather sandals too. Perfect summer get up

I reckon some men on here would look quite hot in a toga

Absolutely yes,and the sandals all strapped up to the knees.

The Spartans got away with wearing dresses and they were pretty damn sexy too

Not that you men have to wear dresses just to be sexy for us women of course. Although it would be nice

Maybe a pic challenge not that difficult. A sheet and a belt?

a a nice big crunchy beard

Nah I’ll pass on the beard "

I reckon I could get off seeing F&B rocking a dress...oh and wielding his log

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Those tunic things the greeks used to wear were pretty cool and manly. Leather sandals too. Perfect summer get up

I reckon some men on here would look quite hot in a toga

Absolutely yes,and the sandals all strapped up to the knees.

The Spartans got away with wearing dresses and they were pretty damn sexy too

Not that you men have to wear dresses just to be sexy for us women of course. Although it would be nice

Maybe a pic challenge not that difficult. A sheet and a belt?

a a nice big crunchy beard

Nah I’ll pass on the beard

I reckon I could get off seeing F&B rocking a dress...oh and wielding his log "

Now he’s the only one I think I’d make an exception for!

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By *ultry SuccubusTV/TS
over a year ago

London

I think clothes, apart from safety and modesty reasons, should be comfortable as well (physically and mentally).

No point wearing a dress but makes you feel uncomfy.

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By *eakcoupleCouple
over a year ago

peak district

We knew a Pagan guy who often wore a dress. He had a beard so it looked a bit odd!

Women can wear what they want to work, but men are expected to wear jackets and ties. Doesn't seem fair. In many previous societies men wore skirt-type attire, think of the Egyptian linen 'skirts' and the Roman kilts. We are a liberated society in some ways but not regarding 'formal' clothing.

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

Men living in hot countries do wear much more appropriate clothing. African, Indian, Arab gents etc. I think they all look so cool and sexy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wear a dish-dash. they are male clothing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't mean just for wanking on a webcam, I mean for everyday use?

Driving to work this morning, I passed a lady getting out of her car in a summery dress. I got to thinking; what a fabulous way to dress for work on a hot and stuffy day like this.

There's me in a full sleeve shirt and shoes that feel like space suit boots, already feeling too hot and there's her in half an ounce of cotton and a pair of leather ribbons acting as shoes.

It's a man's world? Not in the summer it ain't."

What annoys me is the dress code at work, women can wear almost anything yet we can't wear jeans. A ncie skirt and top would be great fun though.

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By *egasus NobMan
over a year ago

Wandsworth


"I don't mean just for wanking on a webcam, I mean for everyday use?

Driving to work this morning, I passed a lady getting out of her car in a summery dress. I got to thinking; what a fabulous way to dress for work on a hot and stuffy day like this.

There's me in a full sleeve shirt and shoes that feel like space suit boots, already feeling too hot and there's her in half an ounce of cotton and a pair of leather ribbons acting as shoes.

It's a man's world? Not in the summer it ain't."

Dress is seen as vulnerable now tell me how many men want to be vulnerable, men like to see women in a vulnerable attire so they can be the white knight.

No rule says men can’t but social construct says so from men and women. Got me thinking does any Scottish school wear kilt as part of their uniform there is a start.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There’s nothing stopping you from wearing a dress so why don’t you OP?

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By *innie The MinxWoman
over a year ago

Under the Duvet


"There’s nothing stopping you from wearing a dress so why don’t you OP?"

My ex used to wear a kilt and the amount of attention he got was ridiculous, from both sexes.

He was in his element as was an extrovert, but if you're the shy retiring type then wearing a dress (or anything outside the "norm") will get you a whole load if possible unwanted attention.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


"There’s nothing stopping you from wearing a dress so why don’t you OP?"

I'd be into wearing a dress myself, but not into the stares and comments I'd get.

People are usually horrid to those that don't follow the normal conventions.

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By *o_eye_deerMan
over a year ago

The South Near That London


"We knew a Pagan guy who often wore a dress. He had a beard so it looked a bit odd!

Women can wear what they want to work, but men are expected to wear jackets and ties. Doesn't seem fair. In many previous societies men wore skirt-type attire, think of the Egyptian linen 'skirts' and the Roman kilts. We are a liberated society in some ways but not regarding 'formal' clothing. "

There’s a pub in Surbiton where one of the barmen can often be seen behind the bar in a nice floral dress, complete with shaved head, beard and doc martens!

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By *o_eye_deerMan
over a year ago

The South Near That London


"There’s nothing stopping you from wearing a dress so why don’t you OP?

My ex used to wear a kilt and the amount of attention he got was ridiculous, from both sexes.

He was in his element as was an extrovert, but if you're the shy retiring type then wearing a dress (or anything outside the "norm") will get you a whole load if possible unwanted attention.

"

This brings up an issue I’ve had while wearing a kilt, why is it (mostly) women see it as acceptable to lift it up and see if your sans underwear or not, it doesn’t bother me if someone wants to see my tackle they only need to ask; but a) it would never be acceptable if it was the other way round b) it’s not fair on those around to be exposed to the uncalled for exposure of my dangly bits, I was the one who felt I had to apologise to these unsuspecting onlookers, for the actions of other people!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)


"There’s nothing stopping you from wearing a dress so why don’t you OP?

I'd be into wearing a dress myself, but not into the stares and comments I'd get.

People are usually horrid to those that don't follow the normal conventions. "

I get nasty comments about my swing dresses occasionally. And that's a whole lot less unusual than a man in any kind of dress.

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By *innie The MinxWoman
over a year ago

Under the Duvet


"There’s nothing stopping you from wearing a dress so why don’t you OP?

My ex used to wear a kilt and the amount of attention he got was ridiculous, from both sexes.

He was in his element as was an extrovert, but if you're the shy retiring type then wearing a dress (or anything outside the "norm") will get you a whole load if possible unwanted attention.

This brings up an issue I’ve had while wearing a kilt, why is it (mostly) women see it as acceptable to lift it up and see if your sans underwear or not, it doesn’t bother me if someone wants to see my tackle they only need to ask; but a) it would never be acceptable if it was the other way round b) it’s not fair on those around to be exposed to the uncalled for exposure of my dangly bits, I was the one who felt I had to apologise to these unsuspecting onlookers, for the actions of other people! "

Yes this happened a lot but it was both men and women....

I do love a man in a kilt , but I'd always ask first

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does no body remember David Beckham and the Sarong? He was ridiculed for it. I don't get why it can't be socially acceptable to wear tailored shorts as a guy in a work environment though- I'm dying in this heat at the moment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I assume masculine dresses wouldn't be floral, they'd be like stripes or something. Although rock the flowers if you want...

Dresses come with their own issues tbh. "

Love that! I'm wondering what a masculine dress pattern might be. Covered in cocks. Or tractors.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I assume masculine dresses wouldn't be floral, they'd be like stripes or something. Although rock the flowers if you want...

Dresses come with their own issues tbh.

Love that! I'm wondering what a masculine dress pattern might be. Covered in cocks. Or tractors. "

They’d have the phrase ‘not all men’ all over them

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By *eliWoman
over a year ago

.


"I assume masculine dresses wouldn't be floral, they'd be like stripes or something. Although rock the flowers if you want...

Dresses come with their own issues tbh.

Love that! I'm wondering what a masculine dress pattern might be. Covered in cocks. Or tractors. "

They'd have pockets. Useful pockets, not fake, naff decorative ones.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"There’s nothing stopping you from wearing a dress so why don’t you OP?"

I work in a male dominated industry where the men are men and so are the women.

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