FabSwingers.com forum: Staying in a relationship with the wrong partner

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

So I'm gonna flip Shags thread on its head.

People stay in "out of love" relationships for many reasons.

Finances

Kids

Religion

Abuse/fear

My dad stayed with my mum for me and my sister, until we were old enough to fend for ourselves.

I wished he'd have left sooner for the sake of his own happiness. When he left if was to be with another woman, who'd been waiting years for him to "fulfill his duties" to us.

They've now been married over 20 years so it does work, could you do what she did and wait around for the love of your life? Possibly giving away the best years of what's left of your life in hope that they'll come through in the end.

Have you stayed in a relationship that you knew was wrong? Do you regret it?

I did, for many years. Mine was through fear and my own pig-headedness to give it everything I had to make it work, even though my ex was an abusive cunt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes I stayed in a marriage with my abusive pig of a husband, for the sake of my kids x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Once and never again.. the next time I felt something wasn’t right I acted straight away and as a result have a great relationship with my ex husband.

I’m not sure I could wait for someone that was with someone else. I’d be crippled with what ifs and it’d drive me crazy.

Saff

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Have you stayed in a relationship that you knew was wrong? Do you regret it? "

Yes I have stayed in a wrong relationship. My ex was emotionally abusive and I honestly believed that I'd never do any better for myself. He did quite a number on my self esteem in the years that we were together. He split with me in the end due to my size (

) which was actually a blessing, although I didn't see it at the time. I was devastated but it all worked out for the best. I now thank my lucky stars that we didn't remain together and that I met Mr Jazzy instead. A bad relationship is definitely not better than no relationship at all!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/06/19 14:00:53]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Some might argue I have but I would disagree

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Yes I stayed in a marriage with my abusive pig of a husband, for the sake of my kids x"

Many stay for the kids, which I find heartbreaking because the kids (my child included) knew what was going on with my ex and watched him break my spirit and who I was. My child wished I'd made the decision much sooner

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not a situation I've been in but I do feel for those who feel "stuck". Unravelling your whole life and that of those you love is a big move to make and I understand why some just stay despite their unhappiness.

As for waiting I tried that, someone who wasn't 100% available emotionally. I'm not sure if it was his indecisiveness or my insecurity that broke us but I'm happier now I'm out of limbo. I only occasionally wonder "what if?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No...i left an abusive marriage as soon as i got the opportunity to do so... best thing i ever did

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I did. For my son. I love him more than life. How can I regret that....

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Once and never again.. the next time I felt something wasn’t right I acted straight away and as a result have a great relationship with my ex husband.

I’m not sure I could wait for someone that was with someone else. I’d be crippled with what ifs and it’d drive me crazy.

Saff"

I can understand that completely. Better to end things whilst you still respect each other than to hang on to the point you can't stand them and despise each other surely?

The fear of the unknown, and not knowing if you're being strung along I would imagine. I think my step mum was very brave to hang about for my dad.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

" Have you stayed in a relationship that you knew was wrong? Do you regret it?

I hear ya on the abuse! Takes a huge amount to recover from but makes you realise your worth in the end.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I always stay to the bitter end of a relationship. My husband openly says he doesnt feel the same about me but it's easier for him to stay. I dont have the money or strength to do it on my own with the kids at the moment, so I'll just plod along.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Some might argue I have but I would disagree"

Only you know the answers Doc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

15 years or so stretch of being manipulated and guilt tripped as i fell on my sword sucked it up and did all i could to give them a stable life going without sex for months at a time truth is i never loved the girl i just couldnt handle her upset anyway iv spent the last 18 months trying things i never had the chance to before and its been wonderful especially the last 8 months

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

I (Luke) left my wife after 13 years of marriage, about five years of which were truly awful. I stayed mostly because of the children but I also always hoped things would change.

I finally left because it was clear it was never ever going to get any better and it was just too much.

I had met Hannah by then and I knew that if I stayed I would just die inside given the alternative available.

I'm now happy and I don't regret leaving when I did. The reason things work so well between us is because we met at just the right points in our lives. A different time would not have led to the relationship we have.

I am certain I would have regretted not leaving.

I hope one day my children will understand.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep stayed for the sake of my daughter... Not abusive but drop dead boring.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bloody heck all you people in shit relationship

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Once and never again.. the next time I felt something wasn’t right I acted straight away and as a result have a great relationship with my ex husband.

I’m not sure I could wait for someone that was with someone else. I’d be crippled with what ifs and it’d drive me crazy.

Saff

I can understand that completely. Better to end things whilst you still respect each other than to hang on to the point you can't stand them and despise each other surely?

The fear of the unknown, and not knowing if you're being strung along I would imagine. I think my step mum was very brave to hang about for my dad."

She’s a very strong lady.. it’d rip me to pieces.

Leaving my ex was horrific because nothing was particularly wrong.. but it just wasn’t ‘right’. Now he’s remarried he gets it.. but ending relationships is hideous, especially when there are kids and other ties that mean life changes for everyone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Some might argue I have but I would disagree

Only you know the answers Doc.

I do. In this particular case

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By *hatYorkLadMan
over a year ago

York

Yep, and for no other reason than feeling like I'd built a cage for myself that I couldn't get out of. It wasn't fear or abuse, just a feeling that I couldn't get out of it and couldn't face the meltdown when I broke her heart (cowardly I know). She hadn't done anything wrong and she loved me to bits, I just had that nagging feeling of knowing she wasn't the one.

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By * Lexi xWoman
over a year ago

stockport

It took time but I left my husband as I wasn’t happy.

Personally if your not happy move on...... kids, finances and anything will still be there. Life’s too short to wonder.

Go with your heart not your head........

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I did. For my son. I love him more than life. How can I regret that...."

Some things just come above all else x

Having said that if it’s an abusive relationship in any form, it’s different.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I stayed with my ex about 6 years longer than I should have due to our kids and my own emotional turmoil of thinking my happiness shouldn't be more important than that of my ex and Children. He was and still is a wonderful man and father and still a good friend. I then met trim after I had broken my marriage and never looked back. Happiest I've ever been and to add to it my ex rekindled his first love and is blissfully happy. Feel very fortunate that it's all turned out well for all of us including the kids.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes I stayed in a marriage with my abusive pig of a husband, for the sake of my kids x

No! No no no!

He did not break your spirit

You are an incredible, strong, beautiful woman. And your posts inspire more than you know

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By *kynyrd64Man
over a year ago

Carlisle

I stayed with my ex wife for the sake of our 5 kids .

She played away and generally fucked around .

I decided to give her some of her own medicine, I wasnt as good as her and got caught out .

Subconsciously think i wanted caught .

Kids kids sided with their mother ,I was the devil.

Taken 6 years to build bridges .

My biggest regret not doing it earlier!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It's not a situation I've been in but I do feel for those who feel "stuck". Unravelling your whole life and that of those you love is a big move to make and I understand why some just stay despite their unhappiness.

I've felt stuck myself when I was with my ex, it's soul destroying as you have nothing to look forward to apart from more of the same unless you make changes, but not knowing how to make those changes is awful.

I would imagine it was a combination of both, them not being able to fully commit breeds more insecurities and the cycle begins. Not having a time frame, not knowing if you're wasting possible time, energy, love and sacrificing years of your life for someone that may never truly emerge must twist your head up and leave you in constant wonder.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"No...i left an abusive marriage as soon as i got the opportunity to do so... best thing i ever did"

I'm so pleased to read that, the relief is real.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I did. For my son. I love him more than life. How can I regret that...."

Does he realise the sacrifices you made? I carried massive guilt that my dad stayed in an unhappy marriage for me

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I always stay to the bitter end of a relationship. My husband openly says he doesnt feel the same about me but it's easier for him to stay. I dont have the money or strength to do it on my own with the kids at the moment, so I'll just plod along. "

Does it feel like neither of you are able to move on? Like you're wasting chances for both of you to start over?

I hear ya on the finances and strength thing, I was like that until I snapped

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"15 years or so stretch of being manipulated and guilt tripped as i fell on my sword sucked it up and did all i could to give them a stable life going without sex for months at a time truth is i never loved the girl i just couldnt handle her upset anyway iv spent the last 18 months trying things i never had the chance to before and its been wonderful especially the last 8 months"

Do you regret not doing it sooner? Did your family support you when you did?

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By *urls and DressesWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere near here

My dad did the same for me and my brother OP. He stayed in a loveless marriage for 8 years with my mum for the sake of us. In that time he met a woman and tried hard to do the “right thing” but love went above all. He left my mum 10 years ago and he’s so much happier now, he’s himself again and my step mum is a truly wonderful person.

I’m not sure I could do it but I wish my dad had the strength to do it sooner for his own happiness

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I (Luke) left my wife after 13 years of marriage, about five years of which were truly awful. I stayed mostly because of the children but I also always hoped things would change.

I finally left because it was clear it was never ever going to get any better and it was just too much.

I had met Hannah by then and I knew that if I stayed I would just die inside given the alternative available.

I am certain I would have regretted not leaving.

I hope one day my children will understand. "

Being at the right points in your lives. I love that it happened and the planets aligned for you.

I think most of the time if the kids are surrounded by happiness when they're with you, they will not only understand but be thankful.

My son now has a step mum, step brother and half sister that he worships (from his dad, not my abusive ex!)

Step families can work so well providing there is love and respect

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Yep stayed for the sake of my daughter... Not abusive but drop dead boring."

Do you feel you've missed out?

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By *utchersDogMan
over a year ago

Orpington

Was in an abusive relationship, she was a violent alcoholic.

Sold off a load of my dvd's to cash converters just so she could get a bottle of cider to get wasted.

Stayed with her for a few more months until I could afford to move out. Had to leave money with freinds as she had my bank details and used to take my card to the shop for more booze.

When she was sober she was a lovely lady, but that became less and less frequent.

When I moved out she just shipped some other poor sod in a week later.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Yep, and for no other reason than feeling like I'd built a cage for myself that I couldn't get out of. It wasn't fear or abuse, just a feeling that I couldn't get out of it and couldn't face the meltdown when I broke her heart (cowardly I know). She hadn't done anything wrong and she loved me to bits, I just had that nagging feeling of knowing she wasn't the one. "

Assuming it's over now, have you both moved on and happy?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No. I've spent most of my life single. I could never stay in a relationship where I was unhappy. I was brought up with a strong woman who always told us "never rely on a man. You can only rely on yourself". I'm happy in my own company and fiercely independent, to the point that it has sometimes been crippling and made me a bit of a commitment phobe. I'm finally letting go of that. It just took that right person to allow me to brave sharing my life with. It's taken 41 years, but in all honesty (and i know this sounds mushy), LJ is the best man I've ever met. I sometimes wonder what I did to deserve such a wonderful man entering my life. I would be an idiot if i was to let him go, because on my fear of commitment. Thank Christ he's so supportive and patient with me. I couldn't imagine being with anyone else

Holly

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By *andare63Man
over a year ago

oldham

My mum and dad were married for45 years they split up at 75 . Remained friends of a fashion but always knew they weren’t happy ,,,, . My mum stayed with my dad because of me . It’s a deep regret to me but a valuable lesson . Both have passed away in the last few years .

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"It took time but I left my husband as I wasn’t happy.

Personally if your not happy move on...... kids, finances and anything will still be there. Life’s too short to wonder.

Go with your heart not your head........ "

I personally think you should go with both.

Fair play to you for having courage

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I did. For my son. I love him more than life. How can I regret that....

Some things just come above all else x

Having said that if it’s an abusive relationship in any form, it’s different. "

I think we need to teach our kids not to give up easily, but at the same time not to endure unhappiness.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I stayed with my ex about 6 years longer than I should have due to our kids and my own emotional turmoil of thinking my happiness shouldn't be more important than that of my ex and Children. He was and still is a wonderful man and father and still a good friend. I then met trim after I had broken my marriage and never looked back. Happiest I've ever been and to add to it my ex rekindled his first love and is blissfully happy. Feel very fortunate that it's all turned out well for all of us including the kids."

That makes me do this....

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Yes I stayed in a marriage with my abusive pig of a husband, for the sake of my kids x

No! No no no!

He did not break your spirit

You are an incredible, strong, beautiful woman. And your posts inspire more than you know"

You'll make me cry!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Did that 18 yrs. I married an alcoholic used to mentality abuse me for yrs.even now yrs after he died my confidence is shit.....better than it was but thats life

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I did. For my son. I love him more than life. How can I regret that....

Some things just come above all else x

Having said that if it’s an abusive relationship in any form, it’s different.

I think we need to teach our kids not to give up easily, but at the same time not to endure unhappiness."

Absolutely. It’s a difficult one for sure and not something anyone else can really understand or comment on I would imagine. Nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I did. For my son. I love him more than life. How can I regret that....

Some things just come above all else x

Having said that if it’s an abusive relationship in any form, it’s different. "

It wasnt abusive, so I didnt have the same problems you endured and survived. It takes two to make any relationship work, or not, so I share the responsibility for things not working out.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I stayed with my ex wife for the sake of our 5 kids .

She played away and generally fucked around .

I decided to give her some of her own medicine, I wasnt as good as her and got caught out .

Subconsciously think i wanted caught .

Kids kids sided with their mother ,I was the devil.

Taken 6 years to build bridges .

My biggest regret not doing it earlier!"

I can totally understand that. Had it been done sooner there may not have been the bad feeling, more a case of admitting things aren't right and moving on without disrespecting each other and all the hurt.

Thing is, we never know if that's how it would have gone

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By *ORDERMANMan
over a year ago

wrexham

What about the argument you're only here once....

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By *nowwhitexxx1Woman
over a year ago

Hull

I stayed in a marriage for 6 extra years trying to make it work to the detriment of me. It was me who finally had to leave because he thought it was ok... But for me ok isn't enough... Hardest thing I have ever done... But 28 months done the line and I couldn't be happier having made a life for my son and I. I think my ex is too now as he has met someone else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you regret not doing it sooner? Did your family support you when you did? "
no and no

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"My dad did the same for me and my brother OP. He stayed in a loveless marriage for 8 years with my mum for the sake of us. In that time he met a woman and tried hard to do the “right thing” but love went above all. He left my mum 10 years ago and he’s so much happier now, he’s himself again and my step mum is a truly wonderful person.

I’m not sure I could do it but I wish my dad had the strength to do it sooner for his own happiness"

It's a strange feeling isn't it. They may not have been as happy if they'd gone sooner as they may have been worried ot feeling guilty about the kids. I'm glad he found his happy place and things worked out. I think so many are too afraid to be happy. Before they know it time has ticked by and you're into your later life, regretting the one that got away

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Was in an abusive relationship, she was a violent alcoholic.

Sold off a load of my dvd's to cash converters just so she could get a bottle of cider to get wasted.

Stayed with her for a few more months until I could afford to move out. Had to leave money with freinds as she had my bank details and used to take my card to the shop for more booze.

When she was sober she was a lovely lady, but that became less and less frequent.

When I moved out she just shipped some other poor sod in a week later. "

Sounds familiar!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I did. For my son. I love him more than life. How can I regret that....

Some things just come above all else x

Having said that if it’s an abusive relationship in any form, it’s different.

It wasnt abusive, so I didnt have the same problems you endured and survived. It takes two to make any relationship work, or not, so I share the responsibility for things not working out.

I didn’t my lovely. I haven’t had to endure any of these awful things, I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to be in an abusive relationship, mentally or physically. It must take a strong person to be able to walk away.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"No. I've spent most of my life single. I could never stay in a relationship where I was unhappy. I was brought up with a strong woman who always told us "never rely on a man. You can only rely on yourself". I'm happy in my own company and fiercely independent, to the point that it has sometimes been crippling and made me a bit of a commitment phobe. I'm finally letting go of that. It just took that right person to allow me to brave sharing my life with. It's taken 41 years, but in all honesty (and i know this sounds mushy), LJ is the best man I've ever met. I sometimes wonder what I did to deserve such a wonderful man entering my life. I would be an idiot if i was to let him go, because on my fear of commitment. Thank Christ he's so supportive and patient with me. I couldn't imagine being with anyone else

Holly"

I have so much love for this

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"My mum and dad were married for45 years they split up at 75 . Remained friends of a fashion but always knew they weren’t happy ,,,, . My mum stayed with my dad because of me . It’s a deep regret to me but a valuable lesson . Both have passed away in the last few years . "

Incredibly sad.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Did that 18 yrs. I married an alcoholic used to mentality abuse me for yrs.even now yrs after he died my confidence is shit.....better than it was but thats life"

The scars remain don't they.

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By *pider-WomanWoman
over a year ago

Exeter, Bristol, Plymouth, Truro

I dont agree. It takes a lot of courage to walk away with a child in your hands. Toxic relationships are not an environment to bring up a child.

Its easier to stay

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"What about the argument you're only here once.... "

This is partly my point. Yes we have responsibilities to our partners/children etc, but don't we also have responsibilities to ourselves to allow ourselves to be happy?

My dad was a prime example.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I stayed in a marriage for 6 extra years trying to make it work to the detriment of me. It was me who finally had to leave because he thought it was ok... But for me ok isn't enough... Hardest thing I have ever done... But 28 months done the line and I couldn't be happier having made a life for my son and I. I think my ex is too now as he has met someone else. "

By staying we sometimes forget we aren't allowing them to move on and be happy too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes I stayed in a marriage with my abusive pig of a husband, for the sake of my kids x

Mine got quite careful about it. He would lay into me mostly in the car when the kids weren't there. X

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I dont agree. It takes a lot of courage to walk away with a child in your hands. Toxic relationships are not an environment to bring up a child.

Its easier to stay

Oh it takes an awful lot of strength. Sometimes it gets to the stage where you're putting measures in place as you truly believe the abusive person is going to kill you. That's the point where you KNOW something has to change

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Did that 18 yrs. I married an alcoholic used to mentality abuse me for yrs.even now yrs after he died my confidence is shit.....better than it was but thats life

The scars remain don't they.

"
unfortunately yes they do x

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Yes I stayed in a marriage with my abusive pig of a husband, for the sake of my kids x

Mine got quite careful about it. He would lay into me mostly in the car when the kids weren't there. X

Or asleep. They're such cowards considering how tough they pretend to be

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By *9 kisses.Man
over a year ago

clacton on sea

I think thats why i am on this site,

I am with the wrong person,

But i stay with her for my kids, i had an arsehol of a father, and i don't want my kids saying the same, so i stay they don't know theres problems, i make it a happy home,

Ive had the chance to be with the right woman, but i don't regret staying, and i am not going to blame the kids when they grow up, im here as they make it worth while staying

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm in that situation now for my kids that are my life because I know if I walked out she would dissapear with them and make sure I would never see them again she is evil to the core but when other people are around she makes out we are the perfect couple till she starts putting me down she uses mental abuse rather than physical if it wasn't for my kids I wouldn't be here but being around them makes me happier than ever

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I think thats why i am on this site,

I am with the wrong person,

But i stay with her for my kids, i had an arsehol of a father, and i don't want my kids saying the same, so i stay they don't know theres problems, i make it a happy home,

Ive had the chance to be with the right woman, but i don't regret staying, and i am not going to blame the kids when they grow up, im here as they make it worth while staying "

Would you encourage your kids to stay in an unhappy relationship for the sake of your grandchildren?

My dad didn't blame me for staying for so long, he saw it as his duty which I commend, however I also think he should have thought more about himself as we all only have one life and him being unhappy to fulfil his parenting duties didn't need to be done. My parents could have lived happy lives separately rather than an unhappy life together. Me and my sister knew they were miserable as sin, they tried not to show it, but it could be felt. We used to whisper about divorce, that was 30 years ago when divorce wasn't all that common, whereas now it's pretty normal

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I'm in that situation now for my kids that are my life because I know if I walked out she would dissapear with them and make sure I would never see them again she is evil to the core but when other people are around she makes out we are the perfect couple till she starts putting me down she uses mental abuse rather than physical if it wasn't for my kids I wouldn't be here but being around them makes me happier than ever "

Have you looked into support groups? Abuse isn't acceptable. They can help put things in place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have you looked into support groups? Abuse isn't acceptable. They can help put things in place."
mental abuse can cause as much damage as physical abuse so try to get some help

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have you looked into support groups? Abuse isn't acceptable. They can help put things in place.mental abuse can cause as much damage as physical abuse so try to get some help"

Thankfully I have a couple of good friends that are aware of my situation and can go to them just to talk and rant and knowing I put a smile on my kids faces everyday helps me through all the crap I go through

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'll be honest, i think those that stay for the kids, despite thinking they are being selfless, are in fact being a little selfish to their partner. I do get that some think they are doing what they feel is right. But unless the partner is aware of the facade and doing the same, they are taking away some the best years of that person's life, where they could meet someone who will love them and be with them for the right reasons. I had this dilemma. A mantra that always stuck with me was "better to be from a broken home, than in one". I could have easily stayed with my ex, for the sake of our daughter, but knew that i would be stopping him from being able to meet someone who will love him the way he truly deserves. I couldn't live with that deception. We are good friends to this day and there is no resentment or anger with us. My daughter see's a mummy and daddy who love her dearly and who also have a lot of care and respect for one another. You do not have to live in the same house to be a good parent, as my ex has proved

Holly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have you looked into support groups? Abuse isn't acceptable. They can help put things in place.mental abuse can cause as much damage as physical abuse so try to get some help

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have you looked into support groups? Abuse isn't acceptable. They can help put things in place.mental abuse can cause as much damage as physical abuse so try to get some help

I will always take a hug so I don't mind in the slightest even virtual ones xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Holly"

I feel exactly the same about you Holly and the door swings both ways.

You have been my rock whenever i have needed it and you bring out the best of me.

But back to the thread there are so many sad stories on here, it makes me realise as difficult as our household was when i was a kid due to my parents never loving each other it could of been a lot worse.

My heart goes out to those whose childhood and sometimes adulthood was affected by the bad relationship of their parents.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'll be honest, i think those that stay for the kids, despite thinking they are being selfless, are in fact being a little selfish to their partner. I do get that some think they are doing what they feel is right. But unless the partner is aware of the facade and doing the same, they are taking away some the best years of that person's life, where they could meet someone who will love them and be with them for the right reasons. I had this dilemma. A mantra that always stuck with me was "better to be from a broken home, than in one". I could have easily stayed with my ex, for the sake of our daughter, but knew that i would be stopping him from being able to meet someone who will love him the way he truly deserves. I couldn't live with that deception. We are good friends to this day and there is no resentment or anger with us. My daughter see's a mummy and daddy who love her dearly and who also have a lot of care and respect for one another. You do not have to live in the same house to be a good parent, as my ex has proved

Holly"
my husband as an alcoholic who threatened to take my kids away from me i was alot younger than him and scared as my kids were my everything...so i stayed. But i do get what you are saying

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have you looked into support groups? Abuse isn't acceptable. They can help put things in place.mental abuse can cause as much damage as physical abuse so try to get some help

I will always take a hug so I don't mind in the slightest even virtual ones xxx"
aww good. Xx

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By *uzukiNo1Woman
over a year ago

Rhyl

Kids was mine, waited til my eldest went to army college.....then only had my youngest with me which made it easier to do a runner.....couple of years of rebuilding a life and my own self worth stopped running.....now I can say try it now sunshine ....now he,s the one that runs...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m glad my parents split up as a child I didn’t no what the fuck was going on arguments late at night etc plates flying around lol wasnt nice tho

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have you looked into support groups? Abuse isn't acceptable. They can help put things in place.mental abuse can cause as much damage as physical abuse so try to get some help

I will always take a hug so I don't mind in the slightest even virtual ones xxx aww good. Xx"

Thank you I really appreciate your kindness xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hollymy husband as an alcoholic who threatened to take my kids away from me i was alot younger than him and scared as my kids were my everything...so i stayed. But i do get what you are saying"

I dont mean the abusive situations lovely, or the ones where there is the potential for someone to disappear with the children out of malice or spite

Holly

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By *a LunaWoman
over a year ago

South Wales

My first serious boyfriend followed his father down the road of alcholism and i only discovered this when we moved in together. He hid empty bottles everywhere, i found shitloads when he moved out after i ended things.

My second fella i kicked out after i discovered he had joined a dating site and had contacted numerous women on their chat. It was his second chance after an indiscretion on Facebook with an ex. He came home to find his bags packed and we were done. Two weeks later i discovered i was pregnant with our second child.

I have no problem with getting rid of people who are no good for me and who don’t treat me with the love and respect i deserve.

Why? Because i watched my mum endure a physically abusive relationship with my real father that went on to impact me. She eventually got the strength to leave him, but not before he’d cut her throat and Social Services got involved.

As a result i am extremely wary of any shit from men and will bin them without so much as a backward glance if they exhibit any signs i feel uncomfortable with.

I have spidey senses that tingle like fuck!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have you looked into support groups? Abuse isn't acceptable. They can help put things in place.mental abuse can cause as much damage as physical abuse so try to get some help

I will always take a hug so I don't mind in the slightest even virtual ones xxx aww good. Xx

Thank you I really appreciate your kindness xxx"
more than welcome xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hollymy husband as an alcoholic who threatened to take my kids away from me i was alot younger than him and scared as my kids were my everything...so i stayed. But i do get what you are saying

I dont mean the abusive situations lovely, or the ones where there is the potential for someone to disappear with the children out of malice or spite

Holly"
sorry i need to step away from thread getting a bit emotional here. Please dont think i was having a go at you or anything as i wasnt x

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Holly"

Wise words Holly, wise words indeed.

I do think that even when both parents are playing the game though, they still run the risk of teaching the children lessons they don't even know they're doing. I went from leaving my sons dad because I was adamant I wasn't gonna do what my dad did and remain in an unhappy relationship for the sake of my son, to staying in an abusive one because I didn't want to give up until I had tried everything.

Bloody difficult isn't it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Kids was mine, waited til my eldest went to army college.....then only had my youngest with me which made it easier to do a runner.....couple of years of rebuilding a life and my own self worth stopped running.....now I can say try it now sunshine ....now he,s the one that runs..."

I would laugh at my ex if I saw him now.

At the time it wasn't like that in the slightest, I wondered every morning if today was gonna be the day he finally killed me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Life is full of challenges

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hollymy husband as an alcoholic who threatened to take my kids away from me i was alot younger than him and scared as my kids were my everything...so i stayed. But i do get what you are saying

I dont mean the abusive situations lovely, or the ones where there is the potential for someone to disappear with the children out of malice or spite

Hollysorry i need to step away from thread getting a bit emotional here. Please dont think i was having a go at you or anything as i wasnt x"

Awww I know you wasn't lovely. I hope i didn't open up old wounds with my comment. I didnt mean to upset anyone and I'm sorry if thats the case. Sending virtual hugs

Holly

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By *uciyassMan
over a year ago

sheffield

Reading everyone above it shows that many stay to try and protect others and try to repair whatever damage is done. Generally it’s irrepairable and sometimes staying makes the situation worse especially if mental abuse is present. This you can never get over

I commend you OP for bringing this up and I think that you are more amazing than you think you are

We act like fools on here everyday with each other not knowing the real person behind the name Some we get to know and form bonds with. I’ve met so many fabulous people on here and almost every one has a story to tell which would break your heart in two and one or two have me

So all I can say is well done in bringing this up I’m not serious very often but it’s a subject close to my heart that I’ve lived through like so many others

Love to ye all

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I’m glad my parents split up as a child I didn’t no what the fuck was going on arguments late at night etc plates flying around lol wasnt nice tho "

I hear ya

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"My first serious boyfriend followed his father down the road of alcholism and i only discovered this when we moved in together. He hid empty bottles everywhere, i found shitloads when he moved out after i ended things.

I have no problem with getting rid of people who are no good for me and who don’t treat me with the love and respect i deserve.

As a result i am extremely wary of any shit from men and will bin them without so much as a backward glance if they exhibit any signs i feel uncomfortable with.

I have spidey senses that tingle like fuck!

Letting the walls back down is scary as fuck.

Breaks my heart to hear things like this but fair fucking play to ya, and I really do hope your mum is in a good place now

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For 11 years, until I got the mental strength to end it. I thought staying in an emotionally abusive relationship, was my duty as a mother to try and keep a family together.

It was when the kids were saying things like "I want a new Daddy, that will do things with me" and "here mommy, I'll help you, as Daddy doesn't" It made me realise I had to start getting my mental strength back - so I could end it.

I've been on my own 10 years, never ended up in another relationship, as I felt I needed to sort out my mental health out and be me again. They are now teens - ones an adult himself. But dread to think what it would have done to them emotionally, if we'd of stayed together. They don't see him. Up until I lost my dad, he was their Father figure.

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By *uzukiNo1Woman
over a year ago

Rhyl

I would laugh at my ex if I saw him now.

At the time it wasn't like that in the slightest, I wondered every morning if today was gonna be the day he finally killed me."

If I could bottle the feeling of the *end of the tunnel* I would and give it all away to the women and men that need it....my heart really does go out to people when I hear the stories of their battle with DA great thread OP XX

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Holly"

This is the way I think too and worded beautifully may I say!

Unfortunately my ex didn't and I was trapped for many years.

I tried to leave but couldn't for 1 reason or another.

He's not a nice man at all but in the short time we was being amicable after our divorce he admitted he should have let me go years previous.

Our kids have also said they wished I could have left when they was younger. They told me they put their headphones in so they couldn't hear him shouting at me. That broke me into pieces.

Once I managed to leave it was a struggle.. finances was at zero so there was no treats or days out to the seaside. Shopping was minimal.

But their lives was more peaceful and pleasant.

I have now found the most amazing man who adores us all

But in some ways I think if I would have managed to leave sooner.. would I have missed the opportunity to find my amazing husband..he may have been in the wrong place when I walked by.

So I try to focus now on what we went though years ago was an essential part of my journey to find him..

Maybe...

Wow deep. I'm getting coffee!

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Hollymy husband as an alcoholic who threatened to take my kids away from me i was alot younger than him and scared as my kids were my everything...so i stayed. But i do get what you are saying

I dont mean the abusive situations lovely, or the ones where there is the potential for someone to disappear with the children out of malice or spite

Hollysorry i need to step away from thread getting a bit emotional here. Please dont think i was having a go at you or anything as i wasnt x

Awww I know you wasn't lovely. I hope i didn't open up old wounds with my comment. I didnt mean to upset anyone and I'm sorry if thats the case. Sending virtual hugs

Holly "

For those of us that HAVE come through abuse..

We're here, we're alive, we've been through so much and overcome hurdles we never imagined we would ever face or put up with.

We should all be extremely proud of ourselves.

For those going through it now.... you don't have to.

You're worth more than abuse, even though you may not believe it right now.

The sun will shine again, but you have to let it.

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By *hatYorkLadMan
over a year ago

York

"I’m glad my parents split up as a child I didn’t no what the fuck was going on arguments late at night etc plates flying around lol wasnt nice tho "

Sounds like my childhood, I used to be in bed late at night as a kid terrified with my pillow over my head to stop me hearing it, it wasn't all the time but every now and again it would blow up spectacularly. One time a particularly bad screaming argument stopped very abruptly and I was laid in bed crying convinced my dad had killed my mum, but didn't dare get up to go and check. I was convinced they were going to divorce but once us kids got older and they were in a better place financially they got close and happy again surprisingly.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"For 11 years, until I got the mental strength to end it. I thought staying in an emotionally abusive relationship, was my duty as a mother to try and keep a family together.

Kids make their own choices as they grow. My exs son has now disowned my ex. He saw too much, he had his own version of mental abuse from him.

It's harder to chose to live than people realise, sometimes it feels like existing is all we have to give.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Holly

This is the way I think too and worded beautifully may I say!

Unfortunately my ex didn't and I was trapped for many years.

I tried to leave but couldn't for 1 reason or another.

He's not a nice man at all but in the short time we was being amicable after our divorce he admitted he should have let me go years previous.

Our kids have also said they wished I could have left when they was younger. They told me they put their headphones in so they couldn't hear him shouting at me. That broke me into pieces.

Once I managed to leave it was a struggle.. finances was at zero so there was no treats or days out to the seaside. Shopping was minimal.

But their lives was more peaceful and pleasant.

I have now found the most amazing man who adores us all

But in some ways I think if I would have managed to leave sooner.. would I have missed the opportunity to find my amazing husband..he may have been in the wrong place when I walked by.

So I try to focus now on what we went though years ago was an essential part of my journey to find him..

Maybe...

Wow deep. I'm getting coffee!

3 sugars in mine

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I’m glad my parents split up as a child I didn’t no what the fuck was going on arguments late at night etc plates flying around lol wasnt nice tho

This is hard reading.

Do you think it was merely finances, or could there have been something else underlying? Mental health, hormonal issues?

Sounds like you all went to hell and back

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

yes as i was scared to make the break

6 years on now and im so glad i did

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By *hatYorkLadMan
over a year ago

York

"I’m glad my parents split up as a child I didn’t no what the fuck was going on arguments late at night etc plates flying around lol wasnt nice tho

This is hard reading.

Do you think it was merely finances, or could there have been something else underlying? Mental health, hormonal issues?

Sounds like you all went to hell and back"

My dad had lost his own father and had a lot of responsibility for the family business dropped on him a few years earlier and was likely having an undiagnosed breakdown over it, and my mum was having problems with hormones and having a lot of surgery. Add to that someone at my mums work was spreading gossip that my mum was having an affair when she wasn't but it was getting back to my dad, and the pressure of raising three kids when money was tight, it was just a tinder box.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Reading everyone above it shows that many stay to try and protect others and try to repair whatever damage is done. Generally it’s irrepairable and sometimes staying makes the situation worse especially if mental abuse is present. This you can never get over

I commend you OP for bringing this up and I think that you are more amazing than you think you are

So all I can say is well done in bringing this up I’m not serious very often but it’s a subject close to my heart that I’ve lived through like so many others

Love to ye all "

Humbled Juicy, I really am.

I know I really can be a dickhead and I'm sarcastic and whatnot, but you're right, we all have a story to tell. We're all shaped by things and experiences.

Sometimes we can't see a way out and reading success stories can give us hope. Sometimes we may wonder if we have done, or are doing the right thing by others and by ourselves.

I think we can all be selfish, but at the same time I think there are times and circumstances where we are allowed to be, and often need to be, not only for ourselves.

Thank you

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I’m glad my parents split up as a child I didn’t no what the fuck was going on arguments late at night etc plates flying around lol wasnt nice tho

This is hard reading.

Do you think it was merely finances, or could there have been something else underlying? Mental health, hormonal issues?

Sounds like you all went to hell and back

Christ, it really was.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"yes as i was scared to make the break

6 years on now and im so glad i did"

The sun can shine again

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By *uxom redCouple
over a year ago

Shrewsbury

I stayed with my ex husband for the sake of the children but I could see the damage it was doing.

He was abusive to me infront of the children and I'll never forget feeling guilty as they had to see what he was doing and then lied about it. I tried talking to he and he threw us out so technically I didn't leave.

It was the best thing that happened, I got my life back and no longer live in fear.

The children are happy and safe and have had counselling.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What about when you leave a bad relationship for all the right reasons, but now years later, you know you should have tried to reconcile.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I would laugh at my ex if I saw him now.

At the time it wasn't like that in the slightest, I wondered every morning if today was gonna be the day he finally killed me.

You mean that sigh of relief where you can breathe again? I remember it so clearly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m glad my parents split up as a child I didn’t no what the fuck was going on arguments late at night etc plates flying around lol wasnt nice tho

How awful for you

it’s a very frightening position to be in, separated from your mum & fearing the worst.

Did you ever tell them how it made you feel?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I stayed with my ex husband for the sake of the children but I could see the damage it was doing.

It was the best thing that happened, I got my life back and no longer live in fear.

The children are happy and safe and have had counselling.

I do think counselling isn't something to be feared, whereas a lot of people view it as almost a last chance thing when things get too much.

Had I gone to counselling sooner I may have processed things and made sense of it all rather than having a full on breakdown.

I have asked my lad to go, he's convinced he learned all he needed to from what he saw and heard. He does live in a loving home now, so I'm hoping having seen both sides there hasn't been any major damage done. He is the most caring, loving, well rounded 18 year old I know.... but he could be repressing, who knows.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"What about when you leave a bad relationship for all the right reasons, but now years later, you know you should have tried to reconcile.

I think it depends on why it was bad. Abusive reasons, hell no.

If both parties are open to reconciling now then give it a go, if not then unfortunately it's a boat that has been missed and one where lessons have been learned.

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By *uxom redCouple
over a year ago

Shrewsbury

"I stayed with my ex husband for the sake of the children but I could see the damage it was doing.

It was the best thing that happened, I got my life back and no longer live in fear.

The children are happy and safe and have had counselling.

I do think counselling isn't something to be feared, whereas a lot of people view it as almost a last chance thing when things get too much.

Had I gone to counselling sooner I may have processed things and made sense of it all rather than having a full on breakdown.

My daughter who is an the autistic spectrum was diagnosed with ptsd counselling really helped her process what she couldn't understand, why did daddy hurt mummy? Is still the unaswered question.

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By *hatYorkLadMan
over a year ago

York

"I’m glad my parents split up as a child I didn’t no what the fuck was going on arguments late at night etc plates flying around lol wasnt nice tho

How awful for you

it’s a very frightening position to be in, separated from your mum & fearing the worst.

Did you ever tell them how it made you feel?"

No, me and my sisters talked about it years later but never with my parents. My dad was rarely violent but had a booming shout and a volatile temper which terrified me till I got to my late teens, I'd feel close to wetting myself when he went off on one with me as a kid. He mellowed out a lot once we were older and had moved into a bigger house, we became the happy family we should have been years before. He died three years ago so we never did discuss it although when he knew he was terminally ill he did express regret at feeling like he hadn't been a good father.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Once and never again.. the next time I felt something wasn’t right I acted straight away and as a result have a great relationship with my ex husband.

I’m not sure I could wait for someone that was with someone else. I’d be crippled with what ifs and it’d drive me crazy.

Saff

I can understand that completely. Better to end things whilst you still respect each other than to hang on to the point you can't stand them and despise each other surely?

The fear of the unknown, and not knowing if you're being strung along I would imagine. I think my step mum was very brave to hang about for my dad.

She’s a very strong lady.. it’d rip me to pieces.

It's the changes to others that most fear I think. Not wanting to hurt another person, not wanting to disappoint parents, not wanting to face repercussions especially if it goes tits up.

So instead people exist rather than live.

I just know with me, the older I'm getting and the more I'm valuing my time on this planet, I'm realising I deserve to be happy. Most people have been through the mill in some way or another and if we can't choose happiness, what's the fucking point?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I stayed with my ex husband for the sake of the children but I could see the damage it was doing.

It was the best thing that happened, I got my life back and no longer live in fear.

The children are happy and safe and have had counselling.

I do think counselling isn't something to be feared, whereas a lot of people view it as almost a last chance thing when things get too much.

Had I gone to counselling sooner I may have processed things and made sense of it all rather than having a full on breakdown.

My daughter who is an the autistic spectrum was diagnosed with ptsd counselling really helped her process what she couldn't understand, why did daddy hurt mummy? Is still the unaswered question. "

Breaks my heart

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By *uxom redCouple
over a year ago

Shrewsbury

"I stayed with my ex husband for the sake of the children but I could see the damage it was doing.

It was the best thing that happened, I got my life back and no longer live in fear.

The children are happy and safe and have had counselling.

I do think counselling isn't something to be feared, whereas a lot of people view it as almost a last chance thing when things get too much.

Had I gone to counselling sooner I may have processed things and made sense of it all rather than having a full on breakdown.

My daughter who is an the autistic spectrum was diagnosed with ptsd counselling really helped her process what she couldn't understand, why did daddy hurt mummy? Is still the unaswered question.

Breaks my heart

The irony is she now lives with him and I've not seen her in 3 years but they always say children will 'go to the abusive person'.

On the bright side I didn't have to suffer her going through puberty.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I stayed with my ex husband for the sake of the children but I could see the damage it was doing.

It was the best thing that happened, I got my life back and no longer live in fear.

The children are happy and safe and have had counselling.

I do think counselling isn't something to be feared, whereas a lot of people view it as almost a last chance thing when things get too much.

Had I gone to counselling sooner I may have processed things and made sense of it all rather than having a full on breakdown.

My daughter who is an the autistic spectrum was diagnosed with ptsd counselling really helped her process what she couldn't understand, why did daddy hurt mummy? Is still the unaswered question.

Breaks my heart

The irony is she now lives with him and I've not seen her in 3 years but they always say children will 'go to the abusive person'.

On the bright side I didn't have to suffer her going through puberty. "

Christ almighty.

I was really worried about my exs son going down the same path as his dad, he picked up a few traits but as he got older he went the opposite way and now they don't speak.

Do you think it's because the abusive ones are manipulative and shift the blame to the other person?

I feel really lucky that my ex isn't my sons dad

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m glad my parents split up as a child I didn’t no what the fuck was going on arguments late at night etc plates flying around lol wasnt nice tho

How awful for you

it’s a very frightening position to be in, separated from your mum & fearing the worst.

Did you ever tell them how it made you feel?

That’s good you’ve talked about it with your sisters

sounds like he had a few regrets before he passed away, I guess he was wanting to go with a clear conscience.

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By *adbury girlWoman
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

I stayed married for 17 years to protect my children from what I now know was emotional abuse as I didn’t want him having my kids on is own every second weekend. I left when that abuse looked like it might become physical when my eldest was 15.

5 years later I read about narcissism and there is a strong possibility my ex is a narc but knowledge is power and I have learned a lot about myself since discovering he might be narcissistic as it makes my whole life so clear.

Unfortunately I didn’t protect my kids as they have suffered through this abuse but thankfully they talk to me about it. One thing I will say is my eldest has told me things I did that I really shouldn’t have (not abusive) and he seems to understand why because he knows what we all suffered but it shows my staying for the kids wasn’t the right thing to do

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I stayed married for 17 years to protect my children from what I now know was emotional abuse as I didn’t want him having my kids on is own every second weekend. I left when that abuse looked like it might become physical when my eldest was 15.

One of the problem with abusive relationships, especially narcissistic abusers is that it happens slowly, over a long period of time. Slowly slowly catchy monkey. I think back on times and things that happen and I can't believe they got to the stage they did, or that I allowed them to get that far.

It's easy for people to say walk away, but because it's been done so bloody carefully and calculated what others can clearly see is abuse has become "normal" or "yeah it's shit, but that's him all over"

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By *hatYorkLadMan
over a year ago

York

"I’m glad my parents split up as a child I didn’t no what the fuck was going on arguments late at night etc plates flying around lol wasnt nice tho

How awful for you

it’s a very frightening position to be in, separated from your mum & fearing the worst.

Did you ever tell them how it made you feel?

That’s good you’ve talked about it with your sisters

sounds like he had a few regrets before he passed away, I guess he was wanting to go with a clear conscience. "

Yeah he wasn't a bad bloke really and we became closer once I was into my 20's, and as I said before him and my mum became a loving couple again as well for a good 10 years before he got ill. It just seemed to be when they were young and under a lot of pressure.

The way my dad was with his temper and being the disciplinarian was mirrored by the vast majority of my friends and relatives dads at the time, it just seemed to be the way they all were. Thankfully it seems less common these days among my generation who are now parents themselves.

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

"I love that it happened and the planets aligned for you."

How lovely that you use that expression. We often say to each other "The stars aligned".

Thank you for your kind words.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I love that it happened and the planets aligned for you.

How lovely that you use that expression. We often say to each other "The stars aligned".

Thank you for your kind words. "

I like seeing people happy. Far too much sadness in the world and far too many people living in fear.

Long may your happiness continue

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Getting to the religious side, I can't begin to imagine what it must be like for those who stay in the wrong relationship to keep their parents happy, or the church etc. Staying with someone so you don't bring dishonor to your family, and if you did follow your happiness you run the risk of being killed by those that are meant to love you.

The world can be so fucked up at times.

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By *uxom redCouple
over a year ago

Shrewsbury

"I stayed with my ex husband for the sake of the children but I could see the damage it was doing.

It was the best thing that happened, I got my life back and no longer live in fear.

The children are happy and safe and have had counselling.

I do think counselling isn't something to be feared, whereas a lot of people view it as almost a last chance thing when things get too much.

Had I gone to counselling sooner I may have processed things and made sense of it all rather than having a full on breakdown.

My daughter who is an the autistic spectrum was diagnosed with ptsd counselling really helped her process what she couldn't understand, why did daddy hurt mummy? Is still the unaswered question.

Breaks my heart

The irony is she now lives with him and I've not seen her in 3 years but they always say children will 'go to the abusive person'.

On the bright side I didn't have to suffer her going through puberty.

Christ almighty.

I was really worried about my exs son going down the same path as his dad, he picked up a few traits but as he got older he went the opposite way and now they don't speak.

Do you think it's because the abusive ones are manipulative and shift the blame to the other person?

I feel really lucky that my ex isn't my sons dad "

Yes I do think. Well I know my daughter was manipulated.

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By *adbury girlWoman
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

Funny you should say that as after we split I was out with a lifelong friend who knew us well and I said something about my ex then finished it by saying but that’s just X. My friend said every time he did something bad I would always justify it by saying that’s just X! Never even knew I said that

It’s Funny watching his new relationship as he picked someone needy who feeds his needs to be adored and their relationship is described perfectly in ‘victim of love bombing’

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

It’s Funny watching his new relationship as he picked someone needy who feeds his needs to be adored and their relationship is described perfectly in ‘victim of love bombing’ "

So familiar! Even my exs family would justify/excuse his behaviour with that "that's just X" line. Other people normalising it doesn't help in the slightest.

And the cycle begins again eh.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, thankfully I never had to because I didn't have children

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By *manaWoman
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"So I'm gonna flip Shags thread on its head.

People stay in "out of love" relationships for many reasons.

Finances

Kids

Religion

Abuse/fear

My dad stayed with my mum for me and my sister, until we were old enough to fend for ourselves.

I wished he'd have left sooner for the sake of his own happiness. When he left if was to be with another woman, who'd been waiting years for him to "fulfill his duties" to us.

Have you stayed in a relationship that you knew was wrong? Do you regret it?

I did, for many years. Mine was through fear and my own pig-headedness to give it everything I had to make it work, even though my ex was an abusive cunt.

Same here. 19 years of being a trophy until I left. So wish I'd left sooner though... Av xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hollymy husband as an alcoholic who threatened to take my kids away from me i was alot younger than him and scared as my kids were my everything...so i stayed. But i do get what you are saying

I dont mean the abusive situations lovely, or the ones where there is the potential for someone to disappear with the children out of malice or spite

Hollysorry i need to step away from thread getting a bit emotional here. Please dont think i was having a go at you or anything as i wasnt x

Awww I know you wasn't lovely. I hope i didn't open up old wounds with my comment. I didnt mean to upset anyone and I'm sorry if thats the case. Sending virtual hugs

Holly "
thank you lovely lady .and Every one whos messaged me . Xx

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By *pider-WomanWoman
over a year ago

Exeter, Bristol, Plymouth, Truro

"I dont agree. It takes a lot of courage to walk away with a child in your hands. Toxic relationships are not an environment to bring up a child.

Its easier to stay

I've been there lovely. When you have a child you know you cant stay that's all I know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I stayed with my ex husband for the sake of the children but I could see the damage it was doing.

It was the best thing that happened, I got my life back and no longer live in fear.

The children are happy and safe and have had counselling.

I do think counselling isn't something to be feared, whereas a lot of people view it as almost a last chance thing when things get too much.

Had I gone to counselling sooner I may have processed things and made sense of it all rather than having a full on breakdown.

My daughter who is an the autistic spectrum was diagnosed with ptsd counselling really helped her process what she couldn't understand, why did daddy hurt mummy? Is still the unaswered question.

Breaks my heart

The irony is she now lives with him and I've not seen her in 3 years but they always say children will 'go to the abusive person'.

On the bright side I didn't have to suffer her going through puberty.

Christ almighty.

I was really worried about my exs son going down the same path as his dad, he picked up a few traits but as he got older he went the opposite way and now they don't speak.

Do you think it's because the abusive ones are manipulative and shift the blame to the other person?

I feel really lucky that my ex isn't my sons dad

Yes I do think. Well I know my daughter was manipulated. "

It's not always possible to leave an emotionally abusive relationship. When the kids say "it wasn't abuse because he never hit you" and then go live with the abusive parent. There's nothing left after that.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I stayed with my ex husband for the sake of the children but I could see the damage it was doing.

It was the best thing that happened, I got my life back and no longer live in fear.

The children are happy and safe and have had counselling.

I do think counselling isn't something to be feared, whereas a lot of people view it as almost a last chance thing when things get too much.

Had I gone to counselling sooner I may have processed things and made sense of it all rather than having a full on breakdown.

My daughter who is an the autistic spectrum was diagnosed with ptsd counselling really helped her process what she couldn't understand, why did daddy hurt mummy? Is still the unaswered question.

Breaks my heart

The irony is she now lives with him and I've not seen her in 3 years but they always say children will 'go to the abusive person'.

On the bright side I didn't have to suffer her going through puberty.

Christ almighty.

I was really worried about my exs son going down the same path as his dad, he picked up a few traits but as he got older he went the opposite way and now they don't speak.

Do you think it's because the abusive ones are manipulative and shift the blame to the other person?

I feel really lucky that my ex isn't my sons dad

Yes I do think. Well I know my daughter was manipulated.

It may feel that way.

Education regarding emotional abuse, and bringing it into the public eye is certainly helping, or at least I think it is. Awareness and knowledge can only be good things, helps us keep our eyes and ears open plus hopefully shows others theres more than meets the eye to be taken into consideration.

I do think though, you can never truly understand unless you've lived it.

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By *uxom redCouple
over a year ago

Shrewsbury

"I stayed with my ex husband for the sake of the children but I could see the damage it was doing.

It was the best thing that happened, I got my life back and no longer live in fear.

The children are happy and safe and have had counselling.

I do think counselling isn't something to be feared, whereas a lot of people view it as almost a last chance thing when things get too much.

Had I gone to counselling sooner I may have processed things and made sense of it all rather than having a full on breakdown.

My daughter who is an the autistic spectrum was diagnosed with ptsd counselling really helped her process what she couldn't understand, why did daddy hurt mummy? Is still the unaswered question.

Breaks my heart

The irony is she now lives with him and I've not seen her in 3 years but they always say children will 'go to the abusive person'.

On the bright side I didn't have to suffer her going through puberty.

Christ almighty.

I was really worried about my exs son going down the same path as his dad, he picked up a few traits but as he got older he went the opposite way and now they don't speak.

Do you think it's because the abusive ones are manipulative and shift the blame to the other person?

I feel really lucky that my ex isn't my sons dad

Yes I do think. Well I know my daughter was manipulated.

He was abusive in every way possible, the children heard what he say to me, he'd never back me up, put me down infront of them.

He'd hit me, have sex without my consent, gaslighting, you name it he did it.

He also Lied about what he did and called me a compulsive liar and still does.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Can I comment on what you say about your own experience O.P. ?

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Well I know I can....... but may I?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Can I comment on what you say about your own experience O.P. ? "

Of course x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I stayed with my ex husband for the sake of the children but I could see the damage it was doing.

It was the best thing that happened, I got my life back and no longer live in fear.

The children are happy and safe and have had counselling.

I do think counselling isn't something to be feared, whereas a lot of people view it as almost a last chance thing when things get too much.

Had I gone to counselling sooner I may have processed things and made sense of it all rather than having a full on breakdown.

My daughter who is an the autistic spectrum was diagnosed with ptsd counselling really helped her process what she couldn't understand, why did daddy hurt mummy? Is still the unaswered question.

Breaks my heart

The irony is she now lives with him and I've not seen her in 3 years but they always say children will 'go to the abusive person'.

On the bright side I didn't have to suffer her going through puberty.

Christ almighty.

I was really worried about my exs son going down the same path as his dad, he picked up a few traits but as he got older he went the opposite way and now they don't speak.

Do you think it's because the abusive ones are manipulative and shift the blame to the other person?

I feel really lucky that my ex isn't my sons dad

Yes I do think. Well I know my daughter was manipulated.

He was abusive in every way possible, the children heard what he say to me, he'd never back me up, put me down infront of them.

He'd hit me, have sex without my consent, gaslighting, you name it he did it.

He also Lied about what he did and called me a compulsive liar and still does.

Hope your other kids understand. Maybe your daughter will understand one day too.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Can I comment on what you say about your own experience O.P. ?

Of course x"

Thanks very much.

I was interested see. Seeing that my Mother left my father, me and my brother. I was under 6 and he under 8. ( a bit about that later )

There's NO point in seeking answers to Q's like this.

In your own case you say that dad stayed until his children were old enough to fend for themselves then off he went to live with the love of his life with whom he's been for the last twenty years and that is proof that relationships work.

I considered this.

He was unfaithful to his wife ( maybe he wasn't if she knew ) but in any case there's a HUGE difference in age and circumstance.

Mum and Dad would have been 'kids' ( young at least ) struggling with kids etc and not much life experience.

Later, he's older, wiser and NO KIDS in the mix. Seems a better chance of relationship survival in the latter scenario.

Age and experience matter. It really does. I stayed with my husband for years after he became alcoholic and depressed. I thought it was the right thing to do. Now I believe it wasn't. I was romantic. I had ideals. I was loyal.

( He died btw )

These days I KNOW i'd be able to stay in a relationship I wasn't too happy with as long as we kept out of each others way.

There are those that fight like kids when they are unhappy and that's unhealthy for their children but there are also those that are emotionally mature and MAKE it work for the sake of the children and still have great relationships outside of the marriage.

It's no one's call. I don't think anyone can say leave or stay........ as usual with life it's down to circumstance and personality.

I'm not too cynical but i'm certainly less gullible. Love is a strange old bugger which a hell of a lot of youngsters think is a fixed/absolute.

There are no chocolate boxes with big bows on - just minds and hearts which change with the passing years.

Sos...... natter natter.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

Oh ..... the extra bit. Went to visit my mum and there was a black baby in her house..... puzzled me for a while

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By *uxom redCouple
over a year ago

Shrewsbury

"I stayed with my ex husband for the sake of the children but I could see the damage it was doing.

It was the best thing that happened, I got my life back and no longer live in fear.

The children are happy and safe and have had counselling.

I do think counselling isn't something to be feared, whereas a lot of people view it as almost a last chance thing when things get too much.

Had I gone to counselling sooner I may have processed things and made sense of it all rather than having a full on breakdown.

My daughter who is an the autistic spectrum was diagnosed with ptsd counselling really helped her process what she couldn't understand, why did daddy hurt mummy? Is still the unaswered question.

Breaks my heart

The irony is she now lives with him and I've not seen her in 3 years but they always say children will 'go to the abusive person'.

On the bright side I didn't have to suffer her going through puberty.

Christ almighty.

I was really worried about my exs son going down the same path as his dad, he picked up a few traits but as he got older he went the opposite way and now they don't speak.

Do you think it's because the abusive ones are manipulative and shift the blame to the other person?

I feel really lucky that my ex isn't my sons dad

Yes I do think. Well I know my daughter was manipulated.

He was abusive in every way possible, the children heard what he say to me, he'd never back me up, put me down infront of them.

He'd hit me, have sex without my consent, gaslighting, you name it he did it.

He also Lied about what he did and called me a compulsive liar and still does.

Hope your other kids understand. Maybe your daughter will understand one day too."

My son understands

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, I stayed with my narcissistic ex for 22 years. I finally found the courage to ask him to leave when he admitted to having an affair with a young girl just a bit older than our oldest son. I put up with years of emotional abuse, thinking I was protecting my children when In reality the things he was involving them in they kept silent from me as they were protecting me. We’ve all paid a heavy price, and considering my sons are disabled they’ve had to deal with things they’re not emotionally equipped to deal with.

It has been a hard few years since he left, mainly for the fact that lots of the secrets have come out and the full amount of abuse we all suffered. He wore me down and at times almost broke me, I’m damaged but I’m getting better. I won’t ever be the same but that’s good as I won’t ever settle for the first person to show me affection. And I’ve met mr who is helping me heal in so many ways. I just feel guilty that my children paid a heavy price too. X

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By *luebell888Woman
over a year ago

Glasgowish

No. I stayed for 25yrs and wasted half my life . Only blame myself for being too weak to leave. Making up for it now thanks to fab.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

These stories! It's made for quite difficult reading, I've had to come back to it several times to try and take it in.

For all the people that have made it out of abusive, controlling or just down right bad relationships; well done, I can absolutely relate to the fear, worry and anxiety that stepping away can cause.

I do think that there is a lot of pressure on people to stay together when it's not working for so many reasons, marriage in itself seems to add that 'we should try harder' aspect to a relationship, even when it's long dead in anything but name.

As for staying together for the kids? I eventually realised that I'd rather my kids grow up with two parents who are happy apart than miserable together. I'd rather that they learn what a healthy and happy relationship looks like, than a miserable, emotionally abusive one.

My ex calls me selfish for leaving, I think I was selfish for staying.

Tea

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Can I comment on what you say about your own experience O.P. ?

Of course x

Thanks very much.

I was interested see. Seeing that my Mother left my father, me and my brother. I was under 6 and he under 8. ( a bit about that later )

There's NO point in seeking answers to Q's like this.

I considered this.

He was unfaithful to his wife ( maybe he wasn't if she knew ) but in any case there's a HUGE difference in age and circumstance.

Mum and Dad would have been 'kids' ( young at least ) struggling with kids etc and not much life experience.

Later, he's older, wiser and NO KIDS in the mix. Seems a better chance of relationship survival in the latter scenario.

( He died btw )

These days I KNOW i'd be able to stay in a relationship I wasn't too happy with as long as we kept out of each others way.

It's no one's call. I don't think anyone can say leave or stay........ as usual with life it's down to circumstance and personality.

I'm not too cynical but i'm certainly less gullible. Love is a strange old bugger which a hell of a lot of youngsters think is a fixed/absolute.

There are no chocolate boxes with big bows on - just minds and hearts which change with the passing years.

Sos...... natter natter. "

Absolutely agree with all of this. There are so many variables that no two are the same, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer at all, as people need to do what they consider right for them.

You can have one person who will throw everything away for the sake of an argument or a fuck, purely because they can. You'll have others who cheat purely because they can get away with it. On the other side of the coin you'll have people who will try absolutely everything to make things work, even to the detriment of themselves and others.

I think it's comforting to some to read about others experiences, to know they haven't been alone in decisions that they have made, whether those decisions have been to stay or leave.

For some it gives hope.

To others it highlights possible negatives OR positives.

Some people think they're doing their partner a disservice by leaving, not realising they could be doing the opposite and giving their partner the chance of a life with someone who truly loves them. Others believe their partner will crumble without them, so stay for that reason and they could be correct to do that.

Ultimately people need to make their own choices, and choose their own happiness... or not.

I just know for me, and I can only speak for me, that I've been through hell and these days, I choose happiness.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Oh ..... the extra bit. Went to visit my mum and there was a black baby in her house..... puzzled me for a while

That really made me chuckle

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Yes, I stayed with my narcissistic ex for 22 years. I finally found the courage to ask him to leave when he admitted to having an affair with a young girl just a bit older than our oldest son. I put up with years of emotional abuse, thinking I was protecting my children when In reality the things he was involving them in they kept silent from me as they were protecting me. We’ve all paid a heavy price, and considering my sons are disabled they’ve had to deal with things they’re not emotionally equipped to deal with.

Takes a long time to unravel it all and realise the depth of the damage x

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"No. I stayed for 25yrs and wasted half my life . Only blame myself for being too weak to leave. Making up for it now thanks to fab."

That's a long time.

Takes courage to leave, and an awful lot if it.

Sometimes the fear of the unknown is greater than the fear of staying and being unhappy.

There comes a time when you realise you ain't gonna be around forever, and know you don't want to live the rest of your life the same way, so have to make the decision to change it

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"These stories! It's made for quite difficult reading, I've had to come back to it several times to try and take it in.

For all the people that have made it out of abusive, controlling or just down right bad relationships; well done, I can absolutely relate to the fear, worry and anxiety that stepping away can cause.

My ex calls me selfish for leaving, I think I was selfish for staying.

Tea"

It takes a big pair of cahoonas to make the leap, and a lot of the time it really is a leap of faith

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Took a while to finally realise it wasnt right, but hard to get over feeling selfish that my decision to end it would effectively impact 4 lives. Its not bad enough to be totally insufferable ( although I have a high tolerance for shit behaviours) but not really something I should be putting up with or modelling as a good relationship infront of my kids.

The unravelling of lives is the trickiest bit, not so easy for either to just walk off into the sunset and you're sort of both in limbo.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Took a while to finally realise it wasnt right, but hard to get over feeling selfish that my decision to end it would effectively impact 4 lives. Its not bad enough to be totally insufferable ( although I have a high tolerance for shit behaviours) but not really something I should be putting up with or modelling as a good relationship infront of my kids.

The unravelling of lives is the trickiest bit, not so easy for either to just walk off into the sunset and you're sort of both in limbo. "

A brave move to make, but like you say, our own relationships are the ones our kids see, and see as "normal" until they are old enough to see things differently. My parents slept apart for many years, we didn't eat together like "normal" families and all that jazz. There was no affection between them, it was just flat. It was only when I visited friends houses for tea, or stayed overnight at mates that I realised just how different things were. Parents having a laugh, genuinely enjoying each others company, holding hands. Holding hands blew my mind for a while, thought they were proper fucked up for a while til I realised it was mine that were messed up!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For 11 years, until I got the mental strength to end it. I thought staying in an emotionally abusive relationship, was my duty as a mother to try and keep a family together.

Kids make their own choices as they grow. My exs son has now disowned my ex. He saw too much, he had his own version of mental abuse from him.

It's harder to chose to live than people realise, sometimes it feels like existing is all we have to give."

When he could no longer get way with it with me, he started the same tricks with my eldest. Then the phone calls stopped. I've never stopped them from wanting to contact him. I've always said if they want to, well find a way to get in touch. But they have never asked.

Emotional/mental or physical - it really isn't easy. No one really knows until they find them selves in that situation. It took a long time to get to the point of ending it. It didn't just happen overnight - not how others may imagine it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can't imagine what you people have been through all I can say is respect to you all.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Can't imagine what you people have been through all I can say is respect to you all."

Makes you realise how precious it is to have someone special

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I stayed with my ex husband for the sake of the children but I could see the damage it was doing.

It was the best thing that happened, I got my life back and no longer live in fear.

The children are happy and safe and have had counselling.

I do think counselling isn't something to be feared, whereas a lot of people view it as almost a last chance thing when things get too much.

Had I gone to counselling sooner I may have processed things and made sense of it all rather than having a full on breakdown.

My daughter who is an the autistic spectrum was diagnosed with ptsd counselling really helped her process what she couldn't understand, why did daddy hurt mummy? Is still the unaswered question.

Breaks my heart

The irony is she now lives with him and I've not seen her in 3 years but they always say children will 'go to the abusive person'.

On the bright side I didn't have to suffer her going through puberty.

Christ almighty.

I was really worried about my exs son going down the same path as his dad, he picked up a few traits but as he got older he went the opposite way and now they don't speak.

Do you think it's because the abusive ones are manipulative and shift the blame to the other person?

I feel really lucky that my ex isn't my sons dad

Yes I do think. Well I know my daughter was manipulated.

He was abusive in every way possible, the children heard what he say to me, he'd never back me up, put me down infront of them.

He'd hit me, have sex without my consent, gaslighting, you name it he did it.

He also Lied about what he did and called me a compulsive liar and still does.

Hope your other kids understand. Maybe your daughter will understand one day too.

My son understands "

and you have Dick.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

and you have Dick.

And he's very lucky

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Thank you to everyone who shared their stories, opened up, and maybe gave hope to others in similar situations.

It's been an emotional rollercoaster of a thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thank you to everyone who shared their stories, opened up, and maybe gave hope to others in similar situations.

It's been an emotional rollercoaster of a thread.

Some moving stories. I left out most of what I was going to say for fear of blubbing. Xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Thank you to everyone who shared their stories, opened up, and maybe gave hope to others in similar situations.

It's been an emotional rollercoaster of a thread.

Some moving stories. I left out most of what I was going to say for fear of blubbing. Xx"

Sometimes we need a good cry. I know I do xx

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By *eorgeS5875Man
over a year ago

Norfolk / Newcastle

Children always come first. Had an absent father myself and im not going to follow in his footsteps. As long as there is respect between you and your partner and no one is abusive, you should always stand by your children.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Kids always suffer! it’s better to be happy on your own than be with someone who makes you unhappy

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By *eorgeS5875Man
over a year ago

Norfolk / Newcastle

I can bearly be away from my child for a night only seeing them on weekends would kill me.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Children always come first. Had an absent father myself and im not going to follow in his footsteps. As long as there is respect between you and your partner and no one is abusive, you should always stand by your children. "

My son had an "absent father" in so much as we didn't live together. They have always had such a strong bond. Phone calls almost every night when he was small, I had the bare minimum child maintenance off his dad so that his dad could afford petrol to cover the journey and have enough to go on holiday with him every year. Every school holidays he spent at his dads, seeing his grandparents, aunts and uncles etc. At aged 14 he was best man at his dad's wedding which was one of the proudest moments of his life.

He moved in with his dad when he left school and myself and my son have a wonderful relationship.

Respect doesn't mean living unhappily together, its about working together as a unit, even if that unit live separately. If the common goal is the happiness of the children it can work better for all involved.

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By *eorgeS5875Man
over a year ago

Norfolk / Newcastle

He moved in with his dad when he left school and myself and my son have a wonderful relationship.

Thats a nice insight, thank you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I can bearly be away from my child for a night only seeing them on weekends would kill me."
it’s not about you it’s what is best for your child sorry if I sound harsh but it is true x

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By *kynyrd64Man
over a year ago

Carlisle

Its obvious from posts on here,how many have suffered.

Some physically, some mentally.

What is also obvious,is you can come out of it a better person.

When my marriage finished people asked why did you stay ?

My answer "the kids" which was the main reason, but also the fear ,the fear of the unknown.

Friends didn't realise you live in a bubble and convince yourself it will get better.

Honestly I believe now life is better. I believe I should of walked away sooner.life is to short to be unhappy.

Thanks for everyone baring their souls ,I hope each and everyone of you are in a better place

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes.

The highlights are snatching moments of happiness. But then you want more moments which makes the time in between harder. So you aim for fewer moments and just hope that it’s enough.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm stuck in a similar situation. We separate a few years ago and it was mass carnage so I backed down and got back with him.

I'd never fall for someone elses man let alone hang around for him. If and when my marriage finally ends it will be to be on my own, not to be with someone else.

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By *uxom redCouple
over a year ago

Shrewsbury

and you have Dick.

And he's very lucky

Bless you both x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

and you have Dick.

And he's very lucky

Bless you both x "

My first post sounded heartless, I'm sorry. It wasn't about your situation. X

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By *innie The MinxWoman
over a year ago

Under the Duvet

Life is too short.

Yes a break up is hard and yes a break up is painful.

But so is looking back and realising you've wasted 5/10/20 years treading water.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Life is too short.

Yes a break up is hard and yes a break up is painful.

But so is looking back and realising you've wasted 5/10/20 years treading water.

Valuable lessons could have been learned in those years tho, so they may not necessarily be wasted as such.

I think it's a terrible shame when people realise whilst taking their dying breath that they spent a majority of their life unhappy.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

My ex left a marriage of 20 years, met me just as the marriage had ended..broke my heart and I mean broke my heart and is now engaged to another woman...I’ve learnt to never wait around for no fucker.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"My ex left a marriage of 20 years, met me just as the marriage had ended..broke my heart and I mean broke my heart and is now engaged to another woman...I’ve learnt to never wait around for no fucker. "

I can understand not waiting again. Putting your life on hold almost for someone that didn't come through. Not knowing if you were being played or if he truly had the intention of taking the next step with you. Having said that, what he did was give you the opportunity to be loved by someone in a way you deserve to be, by someone that isn't gonna keep you dangling on a string.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

He is and was a cunt...it’s taken me 3 years to get over it...it took him 2 weeks I just feel let down by him..ah well onto new things

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

He is and was a cunt...it’s taken me 3 years to get over it...it took him 2 weeks I just feel let down by him..ah well onto new things

You want me to molotov cocktail his pants?

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