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Would you?

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook

An out-of-control train speeds down a track and will surely crush 10 time-wasters and trolls.

There’s nothing to do, *except*:

You alone have the power to flip a switch that will change the tracks. Choose this, and the train will divert and run over only one person--a respectful, funny, well-articulated, smart and gorgeous credit to our species.

Would you choose to end the life of just the one?

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By *andybeachWoman
over a year ago

In the middle

Nah, take out the trolls

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

I (Luk) would flick the switch and do everything I could to get the one off the track.

Time-wasters and trolls may be annoying but they don't deserve to die. I would take the action that causes the least harm, not make value judgements about the person's right to live.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you work on the HS2 project perchance?

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook


"Do you work on the HS2 project perchance?"

What if they did?

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook


"I (Luk) would flick the switch and do everything I could to get the one off the track.

Time-wasters and trolls may be annoying but they don't deserve to die. I would take the action that causes the least harm, not make value judgements about the person's right to live. "

Good answer. Sadly you were to late to save him.

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook


"Nah, take out the trolls "

This is arguably the moral position to take. But not because they’re trolls.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm sure I watched this moral dilemma in a film or series fairly recently...

Tea

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If the single good person was in my position they would sacrifice the one for the many.

I would leave any switches alone, I’m not a train driver and have no business pressing buttons. If I was to press the button and kill one person I would be prosecuted for manslaughter or similar, a court would not recognise that if I had not then many would have been killed instead and it would be almost impossible to prove.

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook


"I'm sure I watched this moral dilemma in a film or series fairly recently...

Tea"

The trolley problem, as it’s called, is a well-known philosophic moral thought experiment. And this type of dylemma is often explored in stories.

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook


"If the single good person was in my position they would sacrifice the one for the many.

I would leave any switches alone, I’m not a train driver and have no business pressing buttons. If I was to press the button and kill one person I would be prosecuted for manslaughter or similar, a court would not recognise that if I had not then many would have been killed instead and it would be almost impossible to prove.

"

Great answer. Fabbers are woke

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm sure I watched this moral dilemma in a film or series fairly recently...

Tea"

The Good Place! Chidi has to decide. Great show, can’t wait for it to come back

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By *aucy tiggerWoman
over a year ago

Back where I belong

How long have I got to think about it?

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook


"I'm sure I watched this moral dilemma in a film or series fairly recently...

Tea

The Good Place! Chidi has to decide. Great show, can’t wait for it to come back "

Fantastic show!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm sure I watched this moral dilemma in a film or series fairly recently...

Tea

The Good Place! Chidi has to decide. Great show, can’t wait for it to come back "

That's the one! Thank you!

It was driving me mad that I couldn't remember.

Tea

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook


"How long have I got to think about it? "

All the time you need. The dilemma gets more interesting when you don’t ascribe characteristics to the people. They’re all just human. But now change 10 people to a 100, or. 50 thousand.

Most people’s intuition is to flip the switch. But change the scenario to not flipping a switch, but rather you choosing to push someone on the track to guarantee the 10 don’t die, then most people start questioning their choice in the first scenario.

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

I'm just pleased I can't see any way in which this is going to happen in reality. Long may it remain hypothetical!

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook


"I'm just pleased I can't see any way in which this is going to happen in reality. Long may it remain hypothetical! "

Indeed. But there are real-world ‘sacrifice the one to save the many’ situations. So the thought experiments and their answers have real-world impact on society and our values and morality. So I’m glad there are people who think about it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do you work on the HS2 project perchance?

What if they did?"

Not them, you

What line would you take?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I (Luk) would flick the switch and do everything I could to get the one off the track.

Time-wasters and trolls may be annoying but they don't deserve to die. I would take the action that causes the least harm, not make value judgements about the person's right to live. "

This for me too.

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook

For me it’s a bodily autonomy and right to life issue. No one has the right to decide to take your life, even if it saves other people. The answer ought to be not to flip the switch.

Consider a hospital. There are 10 people who will die without an organ transplant. Imagine a world where the doctor can march into the waiting room, grab a person there and harvest their organs to save the already-dying.

We just don’t have that right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Nah, take out the trolls

This is arguably the moral position to take. But not because they’re trolls."

Why is it the moral position?

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook


"Do you work on the HS2 project perchance?

What if they did?

Not them, you

What line would you take?"

Answered just above. I would like to think that I would not flip the switch.

Ha! Sorry, get the HS2 now.

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook


"Nah, take out the trolls

This is arguably the moral position to take. But not because they’re trolls.

Why is it the moral position?"

Explained above. Quoted here.


"

For me it’s a bodily autonomy and right to life issue. No one has the right to decide to take your life, even if it saves other people. The answer ought to be not to flip the switch.

Consider a hospital. There are 10 people who will die without an organ transplant. Imagine a world where the doctor can march into the waiting room, grab a person there and harvest their organs to save the already-dying.

We just don’t have that right.

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who am I to know what makes a person a troll, maybe they've had a shit life or been abused, maybe they're the most loving person irl, maybe the time waster had issues with a shitty demanding job or kids at home? Maybe the nice guy was just great at outwardly looking that way and was full of fake smiles and lies and cheating on their partner to be on fab like so many others who appear "popular" in the forums yet don't advertise their home life publicly?

If I had the choice then I'd choose for less ppl to die but it's still a shitty choice to have to make and its never gonna happen irl...

We can only use our own personal knowledge, but we can also stay open to its limitations

Steve x

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook


"Who am I to know what makes a person a troll, maybe they've had a shit life or been abused, maybe they're the most loving person irl, maybe the time waster had issues with a shitty demanding job or kids at home? Maybe the nice guy was just great at outwardly looking that way and was full of fake smiles and lies and cheating on their partner to be on fab like so many others who appear "popular" in the forums yet don't advertise their home life publicly?

If I had the choice then I'd choose for less ppl to die but it's still a shitty choice to have to make and its never gonna happen irl...

We can only use our own personal knowledge, but we can also stay open to its limitations

Steve x "

???? Thanks for your comment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Who am I to know what makes a person a troll, maybe they've had a shit life or been abused, maybe they're the most loving person irl, maybe the time waster had issues with a shitty demanding job or kids at home? Maybe the nice guy was just great at outwardly looking that way and was full of fake smiles and lies and cheating on their partner to be on fab like so many others who appear "popular" in the forums yet don't advertise their home life publicly?

If I had the choice then I'd choose for less ppl to die but it's still a shitty choice to have to make and its never gonna happen irl...

We can only use our own personal knowledge, but we can also stay open to its limitations

Steve x

???? Thanks for your comment."

Any time?????

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook


"Who am I to know what makes a person a troll, maybe they've had a shit life or been abused, maybe they're the most loving person irl, maybe the time waster had issues with a shitty demanding job or kids at home? Maybe the nice guy was just great at outwardly looking that way and was full of fake smiles and lies and cheating on their partner to be on fab like so many others who appear "popular" in the forums yet don't advertise their home life publicly?

If I had the choice then I'd choose for less ppl to die but it's still a shitty choice to have to make and its never gonna happen irl...

We can only use our own personal knowledge, but we can also stay open to its limitations

Steve x

???? Thanks for your comment.

Any time????? "

Yeah, dunno what happened with the question marks there. Oh look, wine.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For the greater good of man kind...leave the train on the course it’s on. It’s not my place to try and change fate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Who am I to know what makes a person a troll, maybe they've had a shit life or been abused, maybe they're the most loving person irl, maybe the time waster had issues with a shitty demanding job or kids at home? Maybe the nice guy was just great at outwardly looking that way and was full of fake smiles and lies and cheating on their partner to be on fab like so many others who appear "popular" in the forums yet don't advertise their home life publicly?

If I had the choice then I'd choose for less ppl to die but it's still a shitty choice to have to make and its never gonna happen irl...

We can only use our own personal knowledge, but we can also stay open to its limitations

Steve x

???? Thanks for your comment.

Any time?????

Yeah, dunno what happened with the question marks there. Oh look, wine."

Haha, sorry buddy I'm a sarcy mofo

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd not touch it unless I could make the person who died me. My decision then, my choice. Other than that the power of the decision isn't my responsibility to make, nor do I know the consequences my actions. I don't think it would be something I could forgive myself for. I'd always be wondering if that person was the next super brain scientist who had the cure for cancer or something, and in taking that 1 life I'd sealed the fate of hundreds and thousands of others that now won't get cured.

P

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook


"I'd not touch it unless I could make the person who died me. My decision then, my choice. Other than that the power of the decision isn't my responsibility to make, nor do I know the consequences my actions. I don't think it would be something I could forgive myself for. I'd always be wondering if that person was the next super brain scientist who had the cure for cancer or something, and in taking that 1 life I'd sealed the fate of hundreds and thousands of others that now won't get cured.

P"

Excellent answer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 09/06/19 23:17:17]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 09/06/19 23:18:19]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd invariably notice that the ten people on the trainline were in fact just the one unfunny trolling twat, giggling secretly to themselves at the creation of 10 fake personas.

Which would reduce the decision to one 24 carat bell end or one genuine person, flawless in both character and deed. No contest.

Addition; even if there were 10 of the buggers, they're the ones gormless enough to be hanging around a train track with the great big metal grim reaper hurtling towards them. Rather than get out of the way themselves they're just standing there like the plonkers they are. Whereas the pinnacle of humanity, despite appearing to have a train line fetish, is at least forward thinking enough to be inhabiting a line that the train isn't due to plow down.

For this reason alone they deserve to be saved, whereas the group of sniggering Meffs have practically signed their own death warrant. Even if I saved them at the expense of the other, their sheer fuckwittedness would probably mean that they managed to get themselves shifted off to the harp farm in an equally stupid way before much longer in any case.

B

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

It's been an interesting problem since 1967.

About 50 years on, we're grappling with how do we program a driverless car to make similar life and death decisions.

And should we?

Btw, I wouldn't touch the lever in the original question.

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By *eclanH OP   Man
over a year ago

Liphook


"It's been an interesting problem since 1967.

About 50 years on, we're grappling with how do we program a driverless car to make similar life and death decisions.

And should we?

Btw, I wouldn't touch the lever in the original question."

The driverless car is an interesting case, because there is that added level of abstraction. It’s not a person making the decision, but rather a machine following rules set by a human. The gut feel is that the car should aim to cause the least amount of harm. But it’s not quite that simple. AI in general is a worry, too many software engineers, too few philosophers

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