FabSwingers.com forum: Labels

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

I've often seen the phrase "labels aren't important", thrown around the forums in response to many different questions about body shape, sexuality, etc, etc. Is that really the case and if you agree, then why?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *aven RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

I think they are but the labels we give ourselves. A sense of identity x

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cos im not a duck

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think in a way as a society they help people to feel part of something. They help us to identify common factors with others and connects us to something bigger.

There are people who strive to be individuals and refuse labels which is understandable but also puts them in the "people who refuse to be labeled" category.

Our brains like familiarity and order. Breaking things down into nice manageable boxes keeps our brains content.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *dam1971Man
over a year ago

Bedford

They can be convenient, but they can also be restricting if we define ourselves too much by them

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think labels matter if you can, and do, define your point clearly in words..

I can say I like a, b, c but dislike d without it equalling anything.. it just is what it is.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I think it gives us a sense of our space in the community. As long as we realise that they're beholden to us, not the other way around.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *gnitemybodyWoman
over a year ago

Onestepoutofthedoor

Yes they are certainly helpful.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

Not sure about important but in the context of Fab they can certainly be "useful" - the obvious example being sexuality, especially male sexuality, if guys don't label themselves as bisexual (if they are of course) they're effectively ruling themselves out of the search parameters of anyone looking for just that.

Likewise, although possibly to a lesser extent, any other label we may apply.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"I think in a way as a society they help people to feel part of something. They help us to identify common factors with others and connects us to something bigger.

There are people who strive to be individuals and refuse labels which is understandable but also puts them in the "people who refuse to be labeled" category.

Our brains like familiarity and order. Breaking things down into nice manageable boxes keeps our brains content. "

That's very true, it's impossible to not 'be something' in this (dare I say it) postmodern age, where everything about us signifies something. I'd say though that labels are crucial social signifiers and are essential for us navigating and interacting with others.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"They can be convenient, but they can also be restricting if we define ourselves too much by them"

Not to point you out in a negative way but it was yourself that used the statement "labels aren't important" on the other thread. Are you saying that this isn't the case?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"I don't think labels matter if you can, and do, define your point clearly in words..

I can say I like a, b, c but dislike d without it equalling anything.. it just is what it is."

I see your point but not just limiting the thought to fab (although fab is very relevant), we don't always get the opportunity to clearly define ourselves in a contextual sense and rarely in detail.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"Yes they are certainly helpful."

Why do you think so?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"Not sure about important but in the context of Fab they can certainly be "useful" - the obvious example being sexuality, especially male sexuality, if guys don't label themselves as bisexual (if they are of course) they're effectively ruling themselves out of the search parameters of anyone looking for just that.

Likewise, although possibly to a lesser extent, any other label we may apply."

Yes, the sexuality label on fab is always a bit of a hot topic for guys isn't it?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They are helpful as long as the person being labelled is OK with said lable. If it's one you have given yourself or accepted that's fine but for example If I choose to discibe my body type or sexually in a certain way its not for anyone else to say I'm wrong.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think labels matter if you can, and do, define your point clearly in words..

I can say I like a, b, c but dislike d without it equalling anything.. it just is what it is.

I see your point but not just limiting the thought to fab (although fab is very relevant), we don't always get the opportunity to clearly define ourselves in a contextual sense and rarely in detail. "

I'm trying to think of an example outside fab where aside from ticking boxes this would happen.. brains not working today!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

Likewise, although possibly to a lesser extent, any other label we may apply.

Yes, the sexuality label on fab is always a bit of a hot topic for guys isn't it?

It's the thorniest and hoariest of debates in Fab's existence

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Likewise, although possibly to a lesser extent, any other label we may apply.

Yes, the sexuality label on fab is always a bit of a hot topic for guys isn't it?

It's the thorniest and hoariest of debates in Fab's existence

Think we are overdue a thread

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"I don't think labels matter if you can, and do, define your point clearly in words..

I can say I like a, b, c but dislike d without it equalling anything.. it just is what it is.

I see your point but not just limiting the thought to fab (although fab is very relevant), we don't always get the opportunity to clearly define ourselves in a contextual sense and rarely in detail.

I'm trying to think of an example outside fab where aside from ticking boxes this would happen.. brains not working today!"

I think it's far more prevalent than you'd even think; wear a football top; you're a fan, wear a suit to work; office worker, holding hands with your boyfriend in public; heterosexual (likely), girlfriend... These are just basic ones that popped into my head, others are far more complex, yet just as prevalent.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

Likewise, although possibly to a lesser extent, any other label we may apply.

Yes, the sexuality label on fab is always a bit of a hot topic for guys isn't it?

It's the thorniest and hoariest of debates in Fab's existence

Think we are overdue a thread

Not it!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"They are helpful as long as the person being labelled is OK with said lable. If it's one you have given yourself or accepted that's fine but for example If I choose to discibe my body type or sexually in a certain way its not for anyone else to say I'm wrong. "

I'm not 100% in agreement with you on that, labels work by having an objectively agreed set of definitions, someone defining themselves as athletic if the only thing they've ever run was a tap, is clearly not.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

When did the body label athletic mean you had to actively partake in athletic sports?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

When did the body label athletic mean you had to actively partake in athletic sports? "

It doesn't, it's generally quantifiable through a very efficient cardio vascular system and low body fat %, usually associated with high levels of physical activity. I was using the term 'run' as that was the first that sprang to mind.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

When did the body label athletic mean you had to actively partake in athletic sports?

What’s wrong if someone does self identify as athletic but doesn’t meet your definition of it? Just wondering.

I don’t think all labels actually always have an objectively agreed definition by the way. For example, there’s no clearly accepted definition of homeless, and I don’t think there is one for the body term athletic either. Shrugs.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *tephTV67TV/TS
over a year ago

Cheshire

I like labels personally, I'm a Father, Runner, Biker, ex Serviceman, Crossdresser, Divorcee, Bi Guy, to a certain degree A Loner.

I could name a few more but I actually like at times to be part of a group and see myself as a part of that dynamic.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

When did the body label athletic mean you had to actively partake in athletic sports?

What’s wrong if someone does self identify as athletic but doesn’t meet your definition of it? Just wondering.

Apologies, not clearly accepted - I mean universally accepted and applied in all cases.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

I think labels are important to help people communicate, but that they aren’t comprehensive as a means of communication.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

When did the body label athletic mean you had to actively partake in athletic sports?

What’s wrong if someone does self identify as athletic but doesn’t meet your definition of it? Just wondering.

I'll defer to your professional knowledge regarding homeless, however I disagree with you regarding athletic.

However, semantics aside and answering my OP, you think that labels are important?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

Do we rigidly hold onto definitions of labels we use to self identify with?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"Do we rigidly hold onto definitions of labels we use to self identify with?"

Do you?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Moving away from fab, my grown up Son is autistic and having that label initially was a gateway to getting him support but I have brought him up to know he's a unique wonderful individual, not the 'label'.

Having said that and back to fab, I have gilf on my profile so I guess that's how I label myself x

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

"Do we rigidly hold onto definitions of labels we use to self identify with?

Do you? "

I’m thinking what labels I use of myself and if I do. I don’t know, I think it’s an area of blind spot for people perhaps.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't know if I think they are important or not but I think sometimes are very unhelpful and can actually be damaging.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"Do we rigidly hold onto definitions of labels we use to self identify with?

Do you?

I’m thinking what labels I use of myself and if I do. I don’t know, I think it’s an area of blind spot for people perhaps."

Potentially, I think that some definitions change over time, circumstance and usage, being rigid in certain definitions can lead to confusion further down the line.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"I don't know if I think they are important or not but I think sometimes are very unhelpful and can actually be damaging. "

I think that they can be, especially if it's a label that's placed upon people by society.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"Moving away from fab, my grown up Son is autistic and having that label initially was a gateway to getting him support but I have brought him up to know he's a unique wonderful individual, not the 'label'.

Having said that and back to fab, I have gilf on my profile so I guess that's how I label myself x"

I think that labels have the ability to be both positive and negative, to my mind its the difference between 'using' and 'defined by'

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Having said that and back to fab, I have gilf on my profile so I guess that's how I label myself x

I think that labels have the ability to be both positive and negative, to my mind its the difference between 'using' and 'defined by' "

It depends on the lable and why it's given.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

"Do we rigidly hold onto definitions of labels we use to self identify with?

Do you?

I’m thinking what labels I use of myself and if I do. I don’t know, I think it’s an area of blind spot for people perhaps.

Potentially, I think that some definitions change over time, circumstance and usage, being rigid in certain definitions can lead to confusion further down the line. "

Agreed, I think I’m also wondering about the labels where how it manifests per person can still be very varied. For example; some health/diagnosis labels but also with the body shape one still, I’ve seen athletic bodies that look wildly different but I would still label themselves athletic and I wonder who gets to say which ones are wrong. I’m just musing, and I certainly wouldn’t label myself athletic. But what about some of those yoga girls who are (label) fat and incredibly (label) athletic - they don’t necessarily fit your definition but I think they’re as athletic as they’re fat and who am I to say how they should label themselves?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

Excuse my grammar glitch in that post!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im not arsed with labels they are what people identify people as dont mean i have to half id never heard of until this year didnt even know that bisexual was a real thing before fab let alone the rest sheltered life

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

Having said that and back to fab, I have gilf on my profile so I guess that's how I label myself x

I think that labels have the ability to be both positive and negative, to my mind its the difference between 'using' and 'defined by'

It depends on the lable and why it's given. "

Very true, I think that labels are unavoidable though. An unwanted label can be lost though and a person doesn't have to be defined by it.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful."

Why do you not think that they're important?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful.

Why do you not think that they're important? "

Sexuality is irrelevant. 'Looking for' is all that matters.

Body type is useless as everyone has different opinions on what the labels mean. Photos or meeting in person works better.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't think labels matter if you can, and do, define your point clearly in words..

I can say I like a, b, c but dislike d without it equalling anything.. it just is what it is."

It is innit

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful.

Why do you not think that they're important?

Sexuality is irrelevant. 'Looking for' is all that matters.

Body type is useless as everyone has different opinions on what the labels mean. Photos or meeting in person works better. "

I would argue that that's not down to labels, that's down to their misuse

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful.

Why do you not think that they're important?

Sexuality is irrelevant. 'Looking for' is all that matters.

Body type is useless as everyone has different opinions on what the labels mean. Photos or meeting in person works better.

I would argue that that's not down to labels, that's down to their misuse"

Interpretation, not misuse?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful.

Why do you not think that they're important?

Sexuality is irrelevant. 'Looking for' is all that matters.

Body type is useless as everyone has different opinions on what the labels mean. Photos or meeting in person works better.

I would argue that that's not down to labels, that's down to their misuse

Interpretation, not misuse?"

I agree with SH here. If there’s a definitive definition for each of the body type labels, can you write it out here?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I saw a meme the other day about labels (on a Facebook page for autism).

Some say a diagnosis is just a label, but I see it as a lens.

Without that lens you may look at me and make judgements based on what you see but with that lens of my diagnosis you can look at me with greater understanding of what you are really seeing’.

Actually made perfect sense to me in a way, having two sons on the spectrum I hated the word label but at the same time when they got that ‘tag’ and the reason why they were a little different it was like a weight had been lifted that there was actually a reason for it.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful."

I understand what you're saying but there's a difference between height and body type. The latter is subjective, the former is not.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

"I saw a meme the other day about labels (on a Facebook page for autism).

Some say a diagnosis is just a label, but I see it as a lens.

Without that lens you may look at me and make judgements based on what you see but with that lens of my diagnosis you can look at me with greater understanding of what you are really seeing’.

Yes, I use lens when discussing a number of work related labels - the lens of trauma for example. It’s a great way to discuss how things might be for someone in actuality stemming from a potential label, that really allows for the different shades within a label.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful.

I understand what you're saying but there's a difference between height and body type. The latter is subjective, the former is not. "

Agreed, height is definitely one that can be objectively labelled if determined in measurement, but not if we are saying tall/short etc...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful.

Why do you not think that they're important?

Sexuality is irrelevant. 'Looking for' is all that matters.

Body type is useless as everyone has different opinions on what the labels mean. Photos or meeting in person works better.

I would argue that that's not down to labels, that's down to their misuse

Interpretation, not misuse?"

You don't think that an overweight person describing themselves as athletic is misuse?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But in answer to the question.

I’m a fat woman and bisexual, you can call me a bbw, you can call me overweight, a fat bitch, I don’t really care to be totally honest, it’s just pointing out the glaringly obvious! Maybe that all comes down under the term labels, I don’t know but it does get on my nerves when there is a thread for the bbws and we all rejoice in a thread for us and some people wade in that aren’t classed as bbw at all and saying they don’t like that term, get off the thread then!

I think the term label is banded about too freely, if an orange is orange it’s going to be called an orange, if I want an orange and didn’t know the name of it how am I meant to ask for one? if you are lesbian and someone says you are a lesbian it’s not a label, it’s your sexuality, simple as that.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful.

I understand what you're saying but there's a difference between height and body type. The latter is subjective, the former is not.

Agreed, height is definitely one that can be objectively labelled if determined in measurement, but not if we are saying tall/short etc..."

Agreed. Just like weight would be objective, but body shape isn't.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful.

I understand what you're saying but there's a difference between height and body type. The latter is subjective, the former is not.

Agreed, height is definitely one that can be objectively labelled if determined in measurement, but not if we are saying tall/short etc..."

I think that you're straying into semantics again here, subjective labels in relevance to others can't be defined.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

Sexuality is irrelevant. 'Looking for' is all that matters. "

We've been round this loop before but in some instances it's very relevant - how does the single man looking for a couple for a Bi MMF know whether the couple he is approaching is "looking for" a man for both of them or just one of them for example?

I can just hear Outraged Of Ongar now at the fact a single guy had contacted them offering to suck Fred's dick when all they wanted was someone to assist Ethel with her DP fantasy!!

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In a broader context we are a tribal animal and labels help us identify and belong to a tribe (or tribes). We like belonging. We will often mislabel ourselves to fit into a tribe we aspire to.

When meeting as individuals you can label yourself however you wish but it really just a start point as the person you meet will come to their own conclusion of how they want to label you. Labels really are only valid from the point of view of the observer.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful.

I understand what you're saying but there's a difference between height and body type. The latter is subjective, the former is not.

Agreed, height is definitely one that can be objectively labelled if determined in measurement, but not if we are saying tall/short etc...

I think that you're straying into semantics again here, subjective labels in relevance to others can't be defined. "

Labels is semantics though. You’re saying athletic is objective as a definition, I disagree.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

"In a broader context we are a tribal animal and labels help us identify and belong to a tribe (or tribes). We like belonging. We will often mislabel ourselves to fit into a tribe we aspire to.

I disagree with your last sentence, labels are important to anyone that thinks they are. Self labelling is incredibly important to some and nothing to do with the observer.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ea monkey OP Man
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful.

I understand what you're saying but there's a difference between height and body type. The latter is subjective, the former is not.

Agreed, height is definitely one that can be objectively labelled if determined in measurement, but not if we are saying tall/short etc...

I think that you're straying into semantics again here, subjective labels in relevance to others can't be defined.

Labels is semantics though. You’re saying athletic is objective as a definition, I disagree. "

Disagreeing with me is your prerogative, you don't have to agree with me. However, it's the least vague of the body types available on fab and in the real world carries a direct definition.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sexuality is irrelevant. 'Looking for' is all that matters.

I can just hear Outraged Of Ongar now at the fact a single guy had contacted them offering to suck Fred's dick when all they wanted was someone to assist Ethel with her DP fantasy!!

Aha yes that's the perfect example! Nice one.

Although.... a bi man might still only want to fuck the woman and not have any contact with the man.

But yes my idea in your example is very flawed.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In a broader context we are a tribal animal and labels help us identify and belong to a tribe (or tribes). We like belonging. We will often mislabel ourselves to fit into a tribe we aspire to.

I disagree with your last sentence, labels are important to anyone that thinks they are. Self labelling is incredibly important to some and nothing to do with the observer."

You are right and I agree self labelling can be very important but others may well completely disagree and they will label you how they find you. You can't control that which is what I was trying to say.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In a broader context we are a tribal animal and labels help us identify and belong to a tribe (or tribes). We like belonging. We will often mislabel ourselves to fit into a tribe we aspire to.

I disagree with your last sentence, labels are important to anyone that thinks they are. Self labelling is incredibly important to some and nothing to do with the observer.

To clarify I mean they may well completely disagree with the self label you have given yourself and will label you how they wish.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful.

I understand what you're saying but there's a difference between height and body type. The latter is subjective, the former is not.

Agreed, height is definitely one that can be objectively labelled if determined in measurement, but not if we are saying tall/short etc...

I think that you're straying into semantics again here, subjective labels in relevance to others can't be defined.

Labels is semantics though. You’re saying athletic is objective as a definition, I disagree.

Disagreeing with me is your prerogative, you don't have to agree with me. However, it's the least vague of the body types available on fab and in the real world carries a direct definition. "

No, you’re interpreting it to refer to mesomorph but athletic bodies in the real world aren’t solely mesomorphs.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irginieWoman
over a year ago

Near Marlborough

No. Not important. Things change. I’d rather know the person. Don’t care about the label.

V x

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

"In a broader context we are a tribal animal and labels help us identify and belong to a tribe (or tribes). We like belonging. We will often mislabel ourselves to fit into a tribe we aspire to.

I disagree with your last sentence, labels are important to anyone that thinks they are. Self labelling is incredibly important to some and nothing to do with the observer.

To clarify I mean they may well completely disagree with the self label you have given yourself and will label you how they wish."

Yes, I agree with that.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful.

Why do you not think that they're important?

Sexuality is irrelevant. 'Looking for' is all that matters.

Body type is useless as everyone has different opinions on what the labels mean. Photos or meeting in person works better.

I would argue that that's not down to labels, that's down to their misuse

Interpretation, not misuse?

You don't think that an overweight person describing themselves as athletic is misuse? "

Maybe that overweight person goes running 10 miles every day.

Probably misuse *and* interpretation.

If I was standing next to Kylie Minogue I'm large. If I was standing next to Dwayne Johnson I'd be small.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *stellaWoman
over a year ago

London

"Following on from another thread which touched on this; do you feel that labels are necessary and important?

Conversely, do you think that they are important?

I don't think they're important for any of those examples. I'd prefer the sexuality and body type tick boxes to be removed from profiles.

I can't think of any labels that would be useful apart from perhaps gender. Not sure if height and age are considered labels but if so, I think both of those are useful.

Why do you not think that they're important?

Sexuality is irrelevant. 'Looking for' is all that matters.

Body type is useless as everyone has different opinions on what the labels mean. Photos or meeting in person works better.

I would argue that that's not down to labels, that's down to their misuse

Interpretation, not misuse?

You don't think that an overweight person describing themselves as athletic is misuse?

Maybe that overweight person goes running 10 miles every day.

Probably misuse *and* interpretation.

If I was standing next to Kylie Minogue I'm large. If I was standing next to Dwayne Johnson I'd be small."

Exactly; there’s a whole heap of interpretation that causes difference of opinion before we get to misuse.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Height, weight etc are variables data of one characteristic, thereby allowing greater distinction in the measurement and it is easy to know what the meaning is of the measurement. Although we still need an agreed operational definition of the measurement... it is often commented on how men measure their cock size from their arsehole. So not everyone is using the same operational definition.

However a body shape or sexuality label that takes with a number of different measurement characteristics and combines them, then categorises combination and creates attribute data. Agreeing an operational definition for these attributes is therefore much more complex and therefore open to misinterpretation and misunderstanding. The usefulness of the label is therefore directly linked to the degree a common definition can be agreed.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is cunt a label?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *irginieWoman
over a year ago

Near Marlborough

"Is cunt a label? "

Yes. All my favourite people can have that label

V x

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *dam1971Man
over a year ago

Bedford

"They can be convenient, but they can also be restricting if we define ourselves too much by them

Not to point you out in a negative way but it was yourself that used the statement "labels aren't important" on the other thread. Are you saying that this isn't the case? "

I was trying to make the same point, probably badly. They shouldn't be important to ourselves and how we feel about ourselves. That can be damaging.

But they are convenient and save us faffing about with 3 paragraphs when all we need to know might be "this person is a twat"