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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug" It's not that hard. But unless you're Part P qualified you could find yourself in trouble...... | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug It's not that hard. But unless you're Part P qualified you could find yourself in trouble......" Not in your own house you're not Namby pamby state again It's 3 wires brown, blue and green and yellow. Live, neutral and earth in that order. Need a certificate for that? Ffs | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug It's not that hard. But unless you're Part P qualified you could find yourself in trouble...... Not in your own house you're not Namby pamby state again It's 3 wires brown, blue and green and yellow. Live, neutral and earth in that order. Need a certificate for that? Ffs " To be fair, you've given a brilliant example of why these regulations are necessary. It's not simply a question of wiring up the correct colours, but making sure that your connecting cables are of suitable capability etc | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug It's not that hard. But unless you're Part P qualified you could find yourself in trouble...... Not in your own house you're not Namby pamby state again It's 3 wires brown, blue and green and yellow. Live, neutral and earth in that order. Need a certificate for that? Ffs " Yes. You do need a certificate to do that, particularly the testing element. No test certificate no insurance. It's nothing to do with a navy pamby state. If you had one minute of experience or qualification you'd understand the logic of the legal requirement. Do you know the torque settings for the connections? Do you know the penaltys for breaching the legal requirement? Any idea why it takes an apprenticeship to learn how to do this safely and compliant with the regulations? I'm willing to bet you don't even know what the qualifications are. Funnily enough, it's attitudes like yours that bought in the Part P Regulation in the first place. Know nothing, no experience, no qualification, know it all - know nothing idiots, fucking about with things they're not qualified to do. | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug It's not that hard. But unless you're Part P qualified you could find yourself in trouble...... Not in your own house you're not Namby pamby state again It's 3 wires brown, blue and green and yellow. Live, neutral and earth in that order. Need a certificate for that? Ffs To be fair, you've given a brilliant example of why these regulations are necessary. It's not simply a question of wiring up the correct colours, but making sure that your connecting cables are of suitable capability etc" Preach. I've seen cookers connected up with 1.5mm 6242Y before now. Condemned! | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug It's not that hard. But unless you're Part P qualified you could find yourself in trouble...... Not in your own house you're not Namby pamby state again It's 3 wires brown, blue and green and yellow. Live, neutral and earth in that order. Need a certificate for that? Ffs To be fair, you've given a brilliant example of why these regulations are necessary. It's not simply a question of wiring up the correct colours, but making sure that your connecting cables are of suitable capability etc Preach. I've seen cookers connected up with 1.5mm 6242Y before now. Condemned! " Breathe Byron... breathe Incidentally, I agree with you, ostensibly connecting wires are easy, but do it yourself and something goes wrong ... insurance void ... or of course worse, returning at leisure in whatever afterlife you believe in | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug It's not that hard. But unless you're Part P qualified you could find yourself in trouble...... Not in your own house you're not Namby pamby state again It's 3 wires brown, blue and green and yellow. Live, neutral and earth in that order. Need a certificate for that? Ffs Yes. You do need a certificate to do that, particularly the testing element. No test certificate no insurance. It's nothing to do with a navy pamby state. If you had one minute of experience or qualification you'd understand the logic of the legal requirement. Do you know the torque settings for the connections? Do you know the penaltys for breaching the legal requirement? Any idea why it takes an apprenticeship to learn how to do this safely and compliant with the regulations? I'm willing to bet you don't even know what the qualifications are. Funnily enough, it's attitudes like yours that bought in the Part P Regulation in the first place. Know nothing, no experience, no qualification, know it all - know nothing idiots, fucking about with things they're not qualified to do. " I thought the OP was about wiring up a simple oven/grill/hob type thingy, not a bloody AGA   | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug It's not that hard. But unless you're Part P qualified you could find yourself in trouble...... Not in your own house you're not Namby pamby state again It's 3 wires brown, blue and green and yellow. Live, neutral and earth in that order. Need a certificate for that? Ffs To be fair, you've given a brilliant example of why these regulations are necessary. It's not simply a question of wiring up the correct colours, but making sure that your connecting cables are of suitable capability etc Preach. I've seen cookers connected up with 1.5mm 6242Y before now. Condemned! Breathe Byron... breathe Incidentally, I agree with you, ostensibly connecting wires are easy, but do it yourself and something goes wrong ... insurance void ... or of course worse, returning at leisure in whatever afterlife you believe in" In my early days I qualified as an approved electrician. 5 years of blood sweat and tears, 4 years of college and 4 years of exams. Requalifying with yet more exams every time the regs book is updated. I finally qualified as an electrical design engineer. And some daft cunt says "all you have to do is stick some wires in" If bell ends like that could see the potential and actual damage piss balling about with electrics they'd maybe think again. Gas you can smell. Water you can see. Electrics will work even when it's wrong and lethal. And you won't find out till it bites you. #it's not Thursday. | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug It's not that hard. But unless you're Part P qualified you could find yourself in trouble...... Not in your own house you're not Namby pamby state again It's 3 wires brown, blue and green and yellow. Live, neutral and earth in that order. Need a certificate for that? Ffs To be fair, you've given a brilliant example of why these regulations are necessary. It's not simply a question of wiring up the correct colours, but making sure that your connecting cables are of suitable capability etc Preach. I've seen cookers connected up with 1.5mm 6242Y before now. Condemned! Breathe Byron... breathe Incidentally, I agree with you, ostensibly connecting wires are easy, but do it yourself and something goes wrong ... insurance void ... or of course worse, returning at leisure in whatever afterlife you believe in In my early days I qualified as an approved electrician. 5 years of blood sweat and tears, 4 years of college and 4 years of exams. Requalifying with yet more exams every time the regs book is updated. I finally qualified as an electrical design engineer. And some daft cunt says "all you have to do is stick some wires in" If bell ends like that could see the potential and actual damage piss balling about with electrics they'd maybe think again. Gas you can smell. Water you can see. Electrics will work even when it's wrong and lethal. And you won't find out till it bites you. #it's not Thursday. "A perfectly valid rant though ... being a systems engineer, things are never quite as simple as they seem | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug It's not that hard. But unless you're Part P qualified you could find yourself in trouble...... Not in your own house you're not Namby pamby state again It's 3 wires brown, blue and green and yellow. Live, neutral and earth in that order. Need a certificate for that? Ffs To be fair, you've given a brilliant example of why these regulations are necessary. It's not simply a question of wiring up the correct colours, but making sure that your connecting cables are of suitable capability etc Preach. I've seen cookers connected up with 1.5mm 6242Y before now. Condemned! Breathe Byron... breathe Incidentally, I agree with you, ostensibly connecting wires are easy, but do it yourself and something goes wrong ... insurance void ... or of course worse, returning at leisure in whatever afterlife you believe in In my early days I qualified as an approved electrician. 5 years of blood sweat and tears, 4 years of college and 4 years of exams. Requalifying with yet more exams every time the regs book is updated. I finally qualified as an electrical design engineer. And some daft cunt says "all you have to do is stick some wires in" If bell ends like that could see the potential and actual damage piss balling about with electrics they'd maybe think again. Gas you can smell. Water you can see. Electrics will work even when it's wrong and lethal. And you won't find out till it bites you. #it's not Thursday.
A perfectly valid rant though ... being a systems engineer, things are never quite as simple as they seem" 
I'll see if he comes back on, I've got a few technical questions to ask him.  | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug It's not that hard. But unless you're Part P qualified you could find yourself in trouble...... Not in your own house you're not Namby pamby state again It's 3 wires brown, blue and green and yellow. Live, neutral and earth in that order. Need a certificate for that? Ffs To be fair, you've given a brilliant example of why these regulations are necessary. It's not simply a question of wiring up the correct colours, but making sure that your connecting cables are of suitable capability etc Preach. I've seen cookers connected up with 1.5mm 6242Y before now. Condemned! Breathe Byron... breathe Incidentally, I agree with you, ostensibly connecting wires are easy, but do it yourself and something goes wrong ... insurance void ... or of course worse, returning at leisure in whatever afterlife you believe in In my early days I qualified as an approved electrician. 5 years of blood sweat and tears, 4 years of college and 4 years of exams. Requalifying with yet more exams every time the regs book is updated. I finally qualified as an electrical design engineer. And some daft cunt says "all you have to do is stick some wires in" If bell ends like that could see the potential and actual damage piss balling about with electrics they'd maybe think again. Gas you can smell. Water you can see. Electrics will work even when it's wrong and lethal. And you won't find out till it bites you. #it's not Thursday.
A perfectly valid rant though ... being a systems engineer, things are never quite as simple as they seem
I'll see if he comes back on, I've got a few technical questions to ask him. "17th? 18th edition? | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug It's not that hard. But unless you're Part P qualified you could find yourself in trouble...... Not in your own house you're not Namby pamby state again It's 3 wires brown, blue and green and yellow. Live, neutral and earth in that order. Need a certificate for that? Ffs To be fair, you've given a brilliant example of why these regulations are necessary. It's not simply a question of wiring up the correct colours, but making sure that your connecting cables are of suitable capability etc Preach. I've seen cookers connected up with 1.5mm 6242Y before now. Condemned! Breathe Byron... breathe Incidentally, I agree with you, ostensibly connecting wires are easy, but do it yourself and something goes wrong ... insurance void ... or of course worse, returning at leisure in whatever afterlife you believe in In my early days I qualified as an approved electrician. 5 years of blood sweat and tears, 4 years of college and 4 years of exams. Requalifying with yet more exams every time the regs book is updated. I finally qualified as an electrical design engineer. And some daft cunt says "all you have to do is stick some wires in" If bell ends like that could see the potential and actual damage piss balling about with electrics they'd maybe think again. Gas you can smell. Water you can see. Electrics will work even when it's wrong and lethal. And you won't find out till it bites you. #it's not Thursday.
A perfectly valid rant though ... being a systems engineer, things are never quite as simple as they seem
I'll see if he comes back on, I've got a few technical questions to ask him.
17th? 18th edition?"No clues. Nothing he can Google. | |||
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"Just make sure the appropriate ring main switch is turned off and do it yourself. Do you want Joey Essex's number "If you're connecting the cooker and you've switched off the ring main you'll be in for a shock. Literally....... | |||
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"Oh for the days of the 14th Edition of the IEE Regs "Thankfully not the 15th though, where literally miles of 4mm g/y were run in everyfuckingwhere. You daren't stand still for 5 minutes or you'd find yourself part of the Faraday cage..... | |||
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"Oh for the days of the 14th Edition of the IEE Regs
Thankfully not the 15th though, where literally miles of 4mm g/y were run in everyfuckingwhere.
You daren't stand still for 5 minutes or you'd find yourself part of the Faraday cage....."Indeed, from kitchen sinks to window frames | |||
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"Oh for the days of the 14th Edition of the IEE Regs
Thankfully not the 15th though, where literally miles of 4mm g/y were run in everyfuckingwhere.
You daren't stand still for 5 minutes or you'd find yourself part of the Faraday cage.....
Indeed, from kitchen sinks to window frames "I saw someone crossbond the sliding part of a pvc patio door once. Coil of 4mm sat in the corner, hidden behind the curtains. Had a "chat" about a consultants spec once that wanted every joint on a suspended ceiling T bar cross bonded too. 99% of the time that regs book introduced potential problems where none existed before. A fucking shambles of a publication. | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug It's not that hard. But unless you're Part P qualified you could find yourself in trouble...... Not in your own house you're not Namby pamby state again It's 3 wires brown, blue and green and yellow. Live, neutral and earth in that order. Need a certificate for that? Ffs Yes. You do need a certificate to do that, particularly the testing element. No test certificate no insurance. It's nothing to do with a navy pamby state. If you had one minute of experience or qualification you'd understand the logic of the legal requirement. Do you know the torque settings for the connections? Do you know the penaltys for breaching the legal requirement? Any idea why it takes an apprenticeship to learn how to do this safely and compliant with the regulations? I'm willing to bet you don't even know what the qualifications are. Funnily enough, it's attitudes like yours that bought in the Part P Regulation in the first place. Know nothing, no experience, no qualification, know it all - know nothing idiots, fucking about with things they're not qualified to do. " I'm genuinly amazed that you mentioned torque settings and not thr cross section as being the skilled part. Do you own a calibrated torque screw driver? Also if its just fitting the hob and connecting it not actually adding the whole circuit its not covered under part P | |||
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""Funnily enough, it's attitudes like yours that bought in the Part P Regulation in the first place. Know nothing, no experience, no qualification, know it all - know nothing idiots, fucking about with things they're not qualified to do." Actually on this point. Ive seen a few 2-3 week courses that get you up to the legal "domestic installer" standard. Or can you just do the part P without being a qualified electrician for your own work? " I'll do a twofer here and save thread space.... Assuming the oven is in the kitchen, it's covered under Part P. I mentioned two of the many things he'd need to consider, knowing full well that he wouldn't actually know any of them. I could have written a much longer list. I have a rake of questions for the chap who thinks it's piss easy to see if it's as simple as he suggests. Anyone can do a Part P as the emphasis is on testing. The key wording is "competant". Holding a Part P certificate doesn't make you a qualified electrician or competent to carry out electrical installation work. Yes I do have a torque driver. A 3 week course may well get you up to the domestic installer standard, but it won't make you a qualified electrician, or get you a Part P certificate. In any case and unless the "rules" of changed (and I'll concede they may have done), an electrician shouldnt work unsupervised, only an approved electrician can do that. And a 3 week course certainly won't make you that. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. | |||
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""Funnily enough, it's attitudes like yours that bought in the Part P Regulation in the first place. Know nothing, no experience, no qualification, know it all - know nothing idiots, fucking about with things they're not qualified to do." Actually on this point. Ive seen a few 2-3 week courses that get you up to the legal "domestic installer" standard. Or can you just do the part P without being a qualified electrician for your own work? I'll do a twofer here and save thread space.... Assuming the oven is in the kitchen, it's covered under Part P. I mentioned two of the many things he'd need to consider, knowing full well that he wouldn't actually know any of them. I could have written a much longer list. I have a rake of questions for the chap who thinks it's piss easy to see if it's as simple as he suggests. Anyone can do a Part P as the emphasis is on testing. The key wording is "competant". Holding a Part P certificate doesn't make you a qualified electrician or competent to carry out electrical installation work. Yes I do have a torque driver. A 3 week course may well get you up to the domestic installer standard, but it won't make you a qualified electrician, or get you a Part P certificate. In any case and unless the "rules" of changed (and I'll concede they may have done), an electrician shouldnt work unsupervised, only an approved electrician can do that. And a 3 week course certainly won't make you that. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. " Fair enough. Tempted to get it done or at least the part P stuff just so i can cover my own work around the house. Annoyingly while im qualified to wire up and test an A380 super jumbo i need to pay somone to stick a 16A socket in the garage
"Yes I do have a torque driver. "
Ah but is it calibrated and in date
I've actually never seen a torque screwdriver used outside aircraft, i honestly wouldnt have expected cheap chinese terminal blocks to be of a standard where a torque setting would be im any way reliable. | |||
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""Funnily enough, it's attitudes like yours that bought in the Part P Regulation in the first place. Know nothing, no experience, no qualification, know it all - know nothing idiots, fucking about with things they're not qualified to do." Actually on this point. Ive seen a few 2-3 week courses that get you up to the legal "domestic installer" standard. Or can you just do the part P without being a qualified electrician for your own work? I'll do a twofer here and save thread space.... Assuming the oven is in the kitchen, it's covered under Part P. I mentioned two of the many things he'd need to consider, knowing full well that he wouldn't actually know any of them. I could have written a much longer list. I have a rake of questions for the chap who thinks it's piss easy to see if it's as simple as he suggests. Anyone can do a Part P as the emphasis is on testing. The key wording is "competant". Holding a Part P certificate doesn't make you a qualified electrician or competent to carry out electrical installation work. Yes I do have a torque driver. A 3 week course may well get you up to the domestic installer standard, but it won't make you a qualified electrician, or get you a Part P certificate. In any case and unless the "rules" of changed (and I'll concede they may have done), an electrician shouldnt work unsupervised, only an approved electrician can do that. And a 3 week course certainly won't make you that. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Fair enough. Tempted to get it done or at least the part P stuff just so i can cover my own work around the house. Annoyingly while im qualified to wire up and test an A380 super jumbo i need to pay somone to stick a 16A socket in the garage
"Yes I do have a torque driver. "
Ah but is it calibrated and in date
I've actually never seen a torque screwdriver used outside aircraft, i honestly wouldnt have expected cheap chinese terminal blocks to be of a standard where a torque setting would be im any way reliable."Part P has been my hobby horse for years, many qualified sparkies feel/felt the same. The legislation was poorly thought out and poorly worded. Meaning people without electrical qualifications could get a Pt P ticket. The key word used was "competant", it doesn't say competent in what. They should have done what the old Corgi ticket did. You could only get a Corgi ticket if you were a qualified plumber/mech engineer. As an example, I never took the Pt P ticket. So I could wire up a socket in a kitchen, but couldn't test it, although I was a time served approved electrician and qualified ectrical design engineer. However a friend of mine who was a postman, who took the Pt P could test it, although he wasn't qualified to wire the socket in the first place. How fucking stupid is that? | |||
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""Funnily enough, it's attitudes like yours that bought in the Part P Regulation in the first place. Know nothing, no experience, no qualification, know it all - know nothing idiots, fucking about with things they're not qualified to do." Actually on this point. Ive seen a few 2-3 week courses that get you up to the legal "domestic installer" standard. Or can you just do the part P without being a qualified electrician for your own work? I'll do a twofer here and save thread space.... Assuming the oven is in the kitchen, it's covered under Part P. I mentioned two of the many things he'd need to consider, knowing full well that he wouldn't actually know any of them. I could have written a much longer list. I have a rake of questions for the chap who thinks it's piss easy to see if it's as simple as he suggests. Anyone can do a Part P as the emphasis is on testing. The key wording is "competant". Holding a Part P certificate doesn't make you a qualified electrician or competent to carry out electrical installation work. Yes I do have a torque driver. A 3 week course may well get you up to the domestic installer standard, but it won't make you a qualified electrician, or get you a Part P certificate. In any case and unless the "rules" of changed (and I'll concede they may have done), an electrician shouldnt work unsupervised, only an approved electrician can do that. And a 3 week course certainly won't make you that. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Fair enough. Tempted to get it done or at least the part P stuff just so i can cover my own work around the house. Annoyingly while im qualified to wire up and test an A380 super jumbo i need to pay somone to stick a 16A socket in the garage
"Yes I do have a torque driver. "
Ah but is it calibrated and in date
I've actually never seen a torque screwdriver used outside aircraft, i honestly wouldnt have expected cheap chinese terminal blocks to be of a standard where a torque setting would be im any way reliable.
Part P has been my hobby horse for years, many qualified sparkies feel/felt the same.
The legislation was poorly thought out and poorly worded. Meaning people without electrical qualifications could get a Pt P ticket.
The key word used was "competant", it doesn't say competent in what.
They should have done what the old Corgi ticket did. You could only get a Corgi ticket if you were a qualified plumber/mech engineer.
As an example, I never took the Pt P ticket. So I could wire up a socket in a kitchen, but couldn't test it, although I was a time served approved electrician and qualified ectrical design engineer.
However a friend of mine who was a postman, who took the Pt P could test it, although he wasn't qualified to wire the socket in the first place.
How fucking stupid is that?
"Yep especialy as im seeing part P courses advertised with a 100% pass rate and its an open book multiple choice test.... Then again looking at my new build house wiring in my attic they either had no plan whatsoever or the regs dont focus on the same kind of things our standards cover. Theres some very strange routing choices and "propper bend radius" does not seem to be something anyone has heard of lol | |||
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""Funnily enough, it's attitudes like yours that bought in the Part P Regulation in the first place. Know nothing, no experience, no qualification, know it all - know nothing idiots, fucking about with things they're not qualified to do." Actually on this point. Ive seen a few 2-3 week courses that get you up to the legal "domestic installer" standard. Or can you just do the part P without being a qualified electrician for your own work? I'll do a twofer here and save thread space.... Assuming the oven is in the kitchen, it's covered under Part P. I mentioned two of the many things he'd need to consider, knowing full well that he wouldn't actually know any of them. I could have written a much longer list. I have a rake of questions for the chap who thinks it's piss easy to see if it's as simple as he suggests. Anyone can do a Part P as the emphasis is on testing. The key wording is "competant". Holding a Part P certificate doesn't make you a qualified electrician or competent to carry out electrical installation work. Yes I do have a torque driver. A 3 week course may well get you up to the domestic installer standard, but it won't make you a qualified electrician, or get you a Part P certificate. In any case and unless the "rules" of changed (and I'll concede they may have done), an electrician shouldnt work unsupervised, only an approved electrician can do that. And a 3 week course certainly won't make you that. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Fair enough. Tempted to get it done or at least the part P stuff just so i can cover my own work around the house. Annoyingly while im qualified to wire up and test an A380 super jumbo i need to pay somone to stick a 16A socket in the garage
"Yes I do have a torque driver. "
Ah but is it calibrated and in date
I've actually never seen a torque screwdriver used outside aircraft, i honestly wouldnt have expected cheap chinese terminal blocks to be of a standard where a torque setting would be im any way reliable.
Part P has been my hobby horse for years, many qualified sparkies feel/felt the same.
The legislation was poorly thought out and poorly worded. Meaning people without electrical qualifications could get a Pt P ticket.
The key word used was "competant", it doesn't say competent in what.
They should have done what the old Corgi ticket did. You could only get a Corgi ticket if you were a qualified plumber/mech engineer.
As an example, I never took the Pt P ticket. So I could wire up a socket in a kitchen, but couldn't test it, although I was a time served approved electrician and qualified ectrical design engineer.
However a friend of mine who was a postman, who took the Pt P could test it, although he wasn't qualified to wire the socket in the first place.
How fucking stupid is that?
Yep especialy as im seeing part P courses advertised with a 100% pass rate and its an open book multiple choice test....
Then again looking at my new build house wiring in my attic they either had no plan whatsoever or the regs dont focus on the same kind of things our standards cover.
Theres some very strange routing choices and "propper bend radius" does not seem to be something anyone has heard of lol"There are a few days of spotting an install by an old school sparks and someone who's "done a course". Cable routing is one of them, as is bends and getting round corners. I worked with an "electrician" on a rewire a few years ago. Called in to help out as the job was falling behind. He'd wired the first floor lights, but had no idea about the ground floor lights or small power circuits. Turns out he'd "done a course". What they didn't teach him was taking up carpets and floor boards, drilling holes through joists, chasing walls out and making good. He seemed genuinly surprised when I said "We do it" and cracked on..... | |||
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"" There are a few days of spotting an install by an old school sparks and someone who's "done a course". Cable routing is one of them, as is bends and getting round corners. I worked with an "electrician" on a rewire a few years ago. Called in to help out as the job was falling behind. He'd wired the first floor lights, but had no idea about the ground floor lights or small power circuits. Turns out he'd "done a course". What they didn't teach him was taking up carpets and floor boards, drilling holes through joists, chasing walls out and making good. He seemed genuinly surprised when I said "We do it" and cracked on..... "Haha yes i can stick my head inside a wing and tell you who out of the current lot fitted it by where they put thier loops and cable ties lol. Haha see thats what i like about my job if theres something in my way i get one if the fitters take it out. Felt bad out in germany once having loads of guys come over rip up carpets and floors theyd just laid so we could go in and do a 2 second continuity and insulation test after changing an engine plug | |||
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"" There are a few days of spotting an install by an old school sparks and someone who's "done a course". Cable routing is one of them, as is bends and getting round corners. I worked with an "electrician" on a rewire a few years ago. Called in to help out as the job was falling behind. He'd wired the first floor lights, but had no idea about the ground floor lights or small power circuits. Turns out he'd "done a course". What they didn't teach him was taking up carpets and floor boards, drilling holes through joists, chasing walls out and making good. He seemed genuinly surprised when I said "We do it" and cracked on.....
Haha yes i can stick my head inside a wing and tell you who out of the current lot fitted it by where they put thier loops and cable ties lol.
Haha see thats what i like about my job if theres something in my way i get one if the fitters take it out.
Felt bad out in germany once having loads of guys come over rip up carpets and floors theyd just laid so we could go in and do a 2 second continuity and insulation test after changing an engine plug
"Needs must in aerospace though ... cutting corners can have greater consequences | |||
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"" There are a few days of spotting an install by an old school sparks and someone who's "done a course". Cable routing is one of them, as is bends and getting round corners. I worked with an "electrician" on a rewire a few years ago. Called in to help out as the job was falling behind. He'd wired the first floor lights, but had no idea about the ground floor lights or small power circuits. Turns out he'd "done a course". What they didn't teach him was taking up carpets and floor boards, drilling holes through joists, chasing walls out and making good. He seemed genuinly surprised when I said "We do it" and cracked on.....
Haha yes i can stick my head inside a wing and tell you who out of the current lot fitted it by where they put thier loops and cable ties lol.
Haha see thats what i like about my job if theres something in my way i get one if the fitters take it out.
Felt bad out in germany once having loads of guys come over rip up carpets and floors theyd just laid so we could go in and do a 2 second continuity and insulation test after changing an engine plug
Needs must in aerospace though ... cutting corners can have greater consequences"Yep, we actually did some role play classes on saying No to people in authority if we thought something was wrong. I heared the nhs is starting to give the same courses to nurses as often they wont speak out against a doctor even if they know theyre mistaken about something. | |||
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"" There are a few days of spotting an install by an old school sparks and someone who's "done a course". Cable routing is one of them, as is bends and getting round corners. I worked with an "electrician" on a rewire a few years ago. Called in to help out as the job was falling behind. He'd wired the first floor lights, but had no idea about the ground floor lights or small power circuits. Turns out he'd "done a course". What they didn't teach him was taking up carpets and floor boards, drilling holes through joists, chasing walls out and making good. He seemed genuinly surprised when I said "We do it" and cracked on.....
Haha yes i can stick my head inside a wing and tell you who out of the current lot fitted it by where they put thier loops and cable ties lol.
Haha see thats what i like about my job if theres something in my way i get one if the fitters take it out.
Felt bad out in germany once having loads of guys come over rip up carpets and floors theyd just laid so we could go in and do a 2 second continuity and insulation test after changing an engine plug
Needs must in aerospace though ... cutting corners can have greater consequences
Yep, we actually did some role play classes on saying No to people in authority if we thought something was wrong.
I heared the nhs is starting to give the same courses to nurses as often they wont speak out against a doctor even if they know theyre mistaken about something.
"Many a time I had the hair dryer treatment from a PM saying something MUST be delivered on time. My comment was always "fine, you sign it off then"  | |||
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"" There are a few days of spotting an install by an old school sparks and someone who's "done a course". Cable routing is one of them, as is bends and getting round corners. I worked with an "electrician" on a rewire a few years ago. Called in to help out as the job was falling behind. He'd wired the first floor lights, but had no idea about the ground floor lights or small power circuits. Turns out he'd "done a course". What they didn't teach him was taking up carpets and floor boards, drilling holes through joists, chasing walls out and making good. He seemed genuinly surprised when I said "We do it" and cracked on.....
Haha yes i can stick my head inside a wing and tell you who out of the current lot fitted it by where they put thier loops and cable ties lol.
Haha see thats what i like about my job if theres something in my way i get one if the fitters take it out.
Felt bad out in germany once having loads of guys come over rip up carpets and floors theyd just laid so we could go in and do a 2 second continuity and insulation test after changing an engine plug
Needs must in aerospace though ... cutting corners can have greater consequences
Yep, we actually did some role play classes on saying No to people in authority if we thought something was wrong.
I heared the nhs is starting to give the same courses to nurses as often they wont speak out against a doctor even if they know theyre mistaken about something.
Many a time I had the hair dryer treatment from a PM saying something MUST be delivered on time.
My comment was always "fine, you sign it off then" "Haha yep, our place takes away your ability to stamp off work when you become a manager to save anyone getting tempted | |||
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"" There are a few days of spotting an install by an old school sparks and someone who's "done a course". Cable routing is one of them, as is bends and getting round corners. I worked with an "electrician" on a rewire a few years ago. Called in to help out as the job was falling behind. He'd wired the first floor lights, but had no idea about the ground floor lights or small power circuits. Turns out he'd "done a course". What they didn't teach him was taking up carpets and floor boards, drilling holes through joists, chasing walls out and making good. He seemed genuinly surprised when I said "We do it" and cracked on.....
Haha yes i can stick my head inside a wing and tell you who out of the current lot fitted it by where they put thier loops and cable ties lol.
Haha see thats what i like about my job if theres something in my way i get one if the fitters take it out.
Felt bad out in germany once having loads of guys come over rip up carpets and floors theyd just laid so we could go in and do a 2 second continuity and insulation test after changing an engine plug
Needs must in aerospace though ... cutting corners can have greater consequences
Yep, we actually did some role play classes on saying No to people in authority if we thought something was wrong.
I heared the nhs is starting to give the same courses to nurses as often they wont speak out against a doctor even if they know theyre mistaken about something.
Many a time I had the hair dryer treatment from a PM saying something MUST be delivered on time.
My comment was always "fine, you sign it off then"
Haha yep, our place takes away your ability to stamp off work when you become a manager to save anyone getting tempted"Ah yes ... had many a manager complain about my "attitude" to be told to wind their necks in as I wad doing my job Electrics are the same in any industry, aerospace, construction ... easy to take short cuts ... but fatal consequences if wrong | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug" Spot on I can do this very easily too | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug Spot on I can do this very easily too" Rinse and repeat? | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug Spot on I can do this very easily too Rinse and repeat? "Always rinse and repeat | |||
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"" There are a few days of spotting an install by an old school sparks and someone who's "done a course". Cable routing is one of them, as is bends and getting round corners. I worked with an "electrician" on a rewire a few years ago. Called in to help out as the job was falling behind. He'd wired the first floor lights, but had no idea about the ground floor lights or small power circuits. Turns out he'd "done a course". What they didn't teach him was taking up carpets and floor boards, drilling holes through joists, chasing walls out and making good. He seemed genuinly surprised when I said "We do it" and cracked on.....
Haha yes i can stick my head inside a wing and tell you who out of the current lot fitted it by where they put thier loops and cable ties lol.
Haha see thats what i like about my job if theres something in my way i get one if the fitters take it out.
Felt bad out in germany once having loads of guys come over rip up carpets and floors theyd just laid so we could go in and do a 2 second continuity and insulation test after changing an engine plug
Needs must in aerospace though ... cutting corners can have greater consequences
Yep, we actually did some role play classes on saying No to people in authority if we thought something was wrong.
I heared the nhs is starting to give the same courses to nurses as often they wont speak out against a doctor even if they know theyre mistaken about something.
Many a time I had the hair dryer treatment from a PM saying something MUST be delivered on time.
My comment was always "fine, you sign it off then" "I did a cable design a few years ago. I know for a fact that the PM changed some of the cable sizes for commercial reasons. When the job was finished he came back to me to sign off on the design. I politely declined. Before I can sign off on the install I need to know you installed what I designed. If you didn't, no way am I putting my name on that bit of paper. He decided to take it to my regional director, who politely told him I was right. As far as I know the design element of the ticket remains unsigned....... | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug Spot on I can do this very easily too Rinse and repeat?
Always rinse and repeat"I'm sooooooo tempted to copy and paste what the guideline/regulation actually says....... | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug Spot on I can do this very easily too Rinse and repeat?
Always rinse and repeat
I'm sooooooo tempted to copy and paste what the guideline/regulation actually says.......""Installing fixed electrical equipment is within the scope of Part P, even if the final connection is by a standard 13A plug and socket, but is notifiable only if it involves work set out in regulation 12(6A). For example: a. installing a built-in cooker is not notifiable work unless a new cooker circuit is needed" So unless they've got a shower/bathtub in thier kitchen its not notifiable | |||
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"OP did you get your cooker installed (after all the great advice ) " | |||
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug Spot on I can do this very easily too Rinse and repeat?
Always rinse and repeat
I'm sooooooo tempted to copy and paste what the guideline/regulation actually says.......
"Installing fixed electrical equipment is within the scope of Part P, even if the final connection is by
a standard 13A plug and socket, but is notifiable only if it involves work set out in regulation 12(6A).
For example:
a. installing a built-in cooker is not notifiable work unless a new cooker circuit is needed"
So unless they've got a shower/bathtub in thier kitchen its not notifiable"Unless it's a built in cooker it's not a fixed appliance. Confusing innit.
I suspect the cooker issue was amended when the rules were updated in 2013.
In the 13amp socket situation you described that's usually if there's a separate oven and hob. Often the oven is fan assisted, so a lower load and can be wired up with a plug top on a flex. No Pt P needed.
The hob is often gas so the only electrical component is a 13amp plug top for the ignition. Again no Pt P needed.
Unfortunately you now need 2 13amp socket outlets behind the oven.
What you've probably got is a cooker outlet point. It's not too difficult to change the outlet to a double 13amp socket outlet.
Guess what you need to that?
If you answered a Part P certificate go to the top of the class.
You'd also want to check the cooker circuit is the right side of the district board rcd and that the circuit breaker is now the correct size for the new load.
I'm guessing you don't want a 45amp fault condition running down a flex suitable for a 13amp load.
Of course if you need to move the cooker circuit within the dist board or change the mcb to a lower rating, guess what you'll need?
If you again answered a Part P certificate, you can remain at the top of the class.
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"do it yourself its not that hard to be honest, unless its gas, any electric oven and hob is easy as wiring a plug Spot on I can do this very easily too Rinse and repeat?
Always rinse and repeat
I'm sooooooo tempted to copy and paste what the guideline/regulation actually says.......
"Installing fixed electrical equipment is within the scope of Part P, even if the final connection is by
a standard 13A plug and socket, but is notifiable only if it involves work set out in regulation 12(6A).
For example:
a. installing a built-in cooker is not notifiable work unless a new cooker circuit is needed"
So unless they've got a shower/bathtub in thier kitchen its not notifiable
Unless it's a built in cooker it's not a fixed appliance.
Confusing innit.
I suspect the cooker issue was amended when the rules were updated in 2013.
In the 13amp socket situation you described that's usually if there's a separate oven and hob. Often the oven is fan assisted, so a lower load and can be wired up with a plug top on a flex. No Pt P needed.
The hob is often gas so the only electrical component is a 13amp plug top for the ignition. Again no Pt P needed.
Unfortunately you now need 2 13amp socket outlets behind the oven.
What you've probably got is a cooker outlet point. It's not too difficult to change the outlet to a double 13amp socket outlet.
Guess what you need to that?
If you answered a Part P certificate go to the top of the class.
You'd also want to check the cooker circuit is the right side of the district board rcd and that the circuit breaker is now the correct size for the new load.
I'm guessing you don't want a 45amp fault condition running down a flex suitable for a 13amp load.
Of course if you need to move the cooker circuit within the dist board or change the mcb to a lower rating, guess what you'll need?
If you again answered a Part P certificate, you can remain at the top of the class.
"Must admit ive not seen a built in oven with a plug just tails. But as the op is replacing a hob i think they're always hardwired (what the hell is the terminology for this in a house) so there wouldn't be any modification | |||
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"This thread is shocking. This isn't the way to conduct yourselves. It's made my head hertz. " Taxi for "Seducted". | |||
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"This thread is shocking. This isn't the way to conduct yourselves. It's made my head hertz. " Is that your 3 phase addition to the thread?  | |||
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"This thread is shocking. This isn't the way to conduct yourselves. It's made my head hertz. " It's good we have you here to keep us grounded. | |||
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"This thread is shocking. This isn't the way to conduct yourselves. It's made my head hertz. Is that your 3 phase addition to the thread? "That's the current contribution. | |||
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"This thread is shocking. This isn't the way to conduct yourselves. It's made my head hertz. It's good we have you here to keep us grounded. " I don't know what on earth we'd do without her...... | |||
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"This thread is shocking. This isn't the way to conduct yourselves. It's made my head hertz. It's good we have you here to keep us grounded. I don't know what on earth we'd do without her......" I'll live to be neutral on this | |||
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"Part P is bollocks " Thanks for the knowledgeable and insightful contribution. Can you shed any light on why you think it's bollocks? *no pun intended | |||
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"This thread is shocking. This isn't the way to conduct yourselves. It's made my head hertz. It's good we have you here to keep us grounded. I don't know what on earth we'd do without her...... I'll live to be neutral on this" Insulating yourself from any argument eh? | |||
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"This thread is shocking. This isn't the way to conduct yourselves. It's made my head hertz. It's good we have you here to keep us grounded. I don't know what on earth we'd do without her...... I'll live to be neutral on this Insulating yourself from any argument eh?" Well ... alternating currently | |||
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"This thread is shocking. This isn't the way to conduct yourselves. It's made my head hertz. It's good we have you here to keep us grounded. I don't know what on earth we'd do without her......" Well, there was a nasty electrical charge to this thread and with with my input you all feel ex-static now don't you? You're welcome. | |||
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"This thread is shocking. This isn't the way to conduct yourselves. It's made my head hertz. It's good we have you here to keep us grounded. I don't know what on earth we'd do without her...... I'll live to be neutral on this Insulating yourself from any argument eh? Well ... alternating currently" The whole threads left me in a state of flux. | |||
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"Part P is bollocks " I'll ask the question more simply; why is Part P bollocks? | |||
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"Part P is bollocks I'll ask the question more simply; why is Part P bollocks? " Didnt you make a whole big post explaining why it was bollocks just above :p | |||
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"Part P is bollocks I'll ask the question more simply; why is Part P bollocks? Didnt you make a whole big post explaining why it was bollocks just above :p" I was hoping for the opposite really. 
As a previously qualified sparkietrician we had loads of issues and comments around it.
Overall concensus of professional opinion, a much needed piece of legislation, but poorly worded.
It's also opened the door to a load of "we'll get you qualified just pay us £xxxx" which isn't always a good thing.
I'm always happy to get a new perspective as to why somethings good or bad.
My mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open. | |||
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"I fitted my own it's easy just make sure your cable is thick enough for the current, i saved money and didn't have to spend any time with someone like Byron, win win." Easy yes. Legal?????????? What size and type of cable? What load? | |||
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"Few sparks on here then. "No ... we're just being bolloquacious | |||
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"Few sparks on here then. "And a few "think we ares" too. | |||
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"I fitted my own it's easy just make sure your cable is thick enough for the current, i saved money and didn't have to spend any time with someone like Byron, win win." That's all well and good but did you check that the existing circuit was appropriately rated , installed correctly and in good order? Was the new cooker the same power rating as the old? Whilst likely that you new cooker is not installed dangerously you probably don't have the knowledge or experience to spot the potential pitfalls that could lead to it being unsafe. Old cabling can have its insulation breaking down, insecure connections, inadequate fault protection, missing earth's, unsafe alterations etc. There is more to the job that just connecting a wire. That said, I will be the first to agree that electricians like to exagerate their worth. It is no surprise that people diy their own stuff when faced with electricians smugly hiding behind regulations and qualifications to overcharge you considering that the majority of the day to day tasks of an electrician could be done by a labourer and the 'qualified' part could be done by anyone with a basic understanding and a rulebook (albeit illegally). They rely on the fact they are regulated to imply it take great skill and responsibility to be an electrician when in reality they are only regulated because even the idiots think it is easy enough to do themselves and occasionally get it wrong. I don't think that anyone should be allowed to play with electric and agree that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing but having worked with and around electricians I also know that I wouldn't trust many of them to do a proper job either. Far too busy interpreting the regulations for their own ends, ie for profit or to save time. | |||
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"I fitted my own it's easy just make sure your cable is thick enough for the current, i saved money and didn't have to spend any time with someone like Byron, win win. That's all well and good but did you check that the existing circuit was appropriately rated , installed correctly and in good order? Was the new cooker the same power rating as the old? Whilst likely that you new cooker is not installed dangerously you probably don't have the knowledge or experience to spot the potential pitfalls that could lead to it being unsafe. Old cabling can have its insulation breaking down, insecure connections, inadequate fault protection, missing earth's, unsafe alterations etc. There is more to the job that just connecting a wire. That said, I will be the first to agree that electricians like to exagerate their worth. It is no surprise that people diy their own stuff when faced with electricians smugly hiding behind regulations and qualifications to overcharge you considering that the majority of the day to day tasks of an electrician could be done by a labourer and the 'qualified' part could be done by anyone with a basic understanding and a rulebook (albeit illegally). They rely on the fact they are regulated to imply it take great skill and responsibility to be an electrician when in reality they are only regulated because even the idiots think it is easy enough to do themselves and occasionally get it wrong. I don't think that anyone should be allowed to play with electric and agree that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing but having worked with and around electricians I also know that I wouldn't trust many of them to do a proper job either. Far too busy interpreting the regulations for their own ends, ie for profit or to save time. " I like what you're saying. Design me some power circuits. House is two story's, kitchen is on the ground floor. 4 bedrooms. Two bathrooms including an en suite. All bathrooms have electrically heated towel rails. Each floor is 1500 square feet. Ground floor walls are brick, first floor walls are paramount. The loft has 300mm insulation. The walls have 100mm insulation. The floor void between ground and first is uninsulated. 40 double socket outlets upstairs. 25 double sockets downstairs. 20 small power outlets in the kitchen. What size cable? What type of cable? What type of secondary containment? If you're drilling holes through joists for the cables to pass through, what's the maximum hole size and how far away from a supporting structure should they be? How far from the top and bottom of the floor joists should the holes be? How many circuits? What type of protective device? What type of circuits? What size protective device? | |||
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"I fitted my own it's easy just make sure your cable is thick enough for the current, i saved money and didn't have to spend any time with someone like Byron, win win. That's all well and good but did you check that the existing circuit was appropriately rated , installed correctly and in good order? Was the new cooker the same power rating as the old? Whilst likely that you new cooker is not installed dangerously you probably don't have the knowledge or experience to spot the potential pitfalls that could lead to it being unsafe. Old cabling can have its insulation breaking down, insecure connections, inadequate fault protection, missing earth's, unsafe alterations etc. There is more to the job that just connecting a wire. That said, I will be the first to agree that electricians like to exagerate their worth. It is no surprise that people diy their own stuff when faced with electricians smugly hiding behind regulations and qualifications to overcharge you considering that the majority of the day to day tasks of an electrician could be done by a labourer and the 'qualified' part could be done by anyone with a basic understanding and a rulebook (albeit illegally). They rely on the fact they are regulated to imply it take great skill and responsibility to be an electrician when in reality they are only regulated because even the idiots think it is easy enough to do themselves and occasionally get it wrong. I don't think that anyone should be allowed to play with electric and agree that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing but having worked with and around electricians I also know that I wouldn't trust many of them to do a proper job either. Far too busy interpreting the regulations for their own ends, ie for profit or to save time. I like what you're saying. Design me some power circuits. House is two story's, kitchen is on the ground floor. 4 bedrooms. Two bathrooms including an en suite. All bathrooms have electrically heated towel rails. Each floor is 1500 square feet. Ground floor walls are brick, first floor walls are paramount. The loft has 300mm insulation. The walls have 100mm insulation. The floor void between ground and first is uninsulated. 40 double socket outlets upstairs. 25 double sockets downstairs. 20 small power outlets in the kitchen. What size cable? What type of cable? What type of secondary containment? If you're drilling holes through joists for the cables to pass through, what's the maximum hole size and how far away from a supporting structure should they be? How far from the top and bottom of the floor joists should the holes be? How many circuits? What type of protective device? What type of circuits? What size protective device? " No problem, it will cost you £2000 and 50% upfront. Deal? Thanks for proving that you are one of those electricians that like to baffle with bullshit. | |||
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"I fitted my own it's easy just make sure your cable is thick enough for the current, i saved money and didn't have to spend any time with someone like Byron, win win. That's all well and good but did you check that the existing circuit was appropriately rated , installed correctly and in good order? Was the new cooker the same power rating as the old? Whilst likely that you new cooker is not installed dangerously you probably don't have the knowledge or experience to spot the potential pitfalls that could lead to it being unsafe. Old cabling can have its insulation breaking down, insecure connections, inadequate fault protection, missing earth's, unsafe alterations etc. There is more to the job that just connecting a wire. That said, I will be the first to agree that electricians like to exagerate their worth. It is no surprise that people diy their own stuff when faced with electricians smugly hiding behind regulations and qualifications to overcharge you considering that the majority of the day to day tasks of an electrician could be done by a labourer and the 'qualified' part could be done by anyone with a basic understanding and a rulebook (albeit illegally). They rely on the fact they are regulated to imply it take great skill and responsibility to be an electrician when in reality they are only regulated because even the idiots think it is easy enough to do themselves and occasionally get it wrong. I don't think that anyone should be allowed to play with electric and agree that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing but having worked with and around electricians I also know that I wouldn't trust many of them to do a proper job either. Far too busy interpreting the regulations for their own ends, ie for profit or to save time. I like what you're saying. Design me some power circuits. House is two story's, kitchen is on the ground floor. 4 bedrooms. Two bathrooms including an en suite. All bathrooms have electrically heated towel rails. Each floor is 1500 square feet. Ground floor walls are brick, first floor walls are paramount. The loft has 300mm insulation. The walls have 100mm insulation. The floor void between ground and first is uninsulated. 40 double socket outlets upstairs. 25 double sockets downstairs. 20 small power outlets in the kitchen. What size cable? What type of cable? What type of secondary containment? If you're drilling holes through joists for the cables to pass through, what's the maximum hole size and how far away from a supporting structure should they be? How far from the top and bottom of the floor joists should the holes be? How many circuits? What type of protective device? What type of circuits? What size protective device? No problem, it will cost you £2000 and 50% upfront. Deal? Thanks for proving that you are one of those electricians that like to baffle with bullshit. " You will also have provide specs of what cooker/hob, shower, boiler and fire/intruder alarm and detection you are having if you want it finalized.. | |||
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"I fitted my own it's easy just make sure your cable is thick enough for the current, i saved money and didn't have to spend any time with someone like Byron, win win. That's all well and good but did you check that the existing circuit was appropriately rated , installed correctly and in good order? Was the new cooker the same power rating as the old? Whilst likely that you new cooker is not installed dangerously you probably don't have the knowledge or experience to spot the potential pitfalls that could lead to it being unsafe. Old cabling can have its insulation breaking down, insecure connections, inadequate fault protection, missing earth's, unsafe alterations etc. There is more to the job that just connecting a wire. That said, I will be the first to agree that electricians like to exagerate their worth. It is no surprise that people diy their own stuff when faced with electricians smugly hiding behind regulations and qualifications to overcharge you considering that the majority of the day to day tasks of an electrician could be done by a labourer and the 'qualified' part could be done by anyone with a basic understanding and a rulebook (albeit illegally). They rely on the fact they are regulated to imply it take great skill and responsibility to be an electrician when in reality they are only regulated because even the idiots think it is easy enough to do themselves and occasionally get it wrong. I don't think that anyone should be allowed to play with electric and agree that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing but having worked with and around electricians I also know that I wouldn't trust many of them to do a proper job either. Far too busy interpreting the regulations for their own ends, ie for profit or to save time. I like what you're saying. Design me some power circuits. House is two story's, kitchen is on the ground floor. 4 bedrooms. Two bathrooms including an en suite. All bathrooms have electrically heated towel rails. Each floor is 1500 square feet. Ground floor walls are brick, first floor walls are paramount. The loft has 300mm insulation. The walls have 100mm insulation. The floor void between ground and first is uninsulated. 40 double socket outlets upstairs. 25 double sockets downstairs. 20 small power outlets in the kitchen. What size cable? What type of cable? What type of secondary containment? If you're drilling holes through joists for the cables to pass through, what's the maximum hole size and how far away from a supporting structure should they be? How far from the top and bottom of the floor joists should the holes be? How many circuits? What type of protective device? What type of circuits? What size protective device? No problem, it will cost you £2000 and 50% upfront. Deal? Thanks for proving that you are one of those electricians that like to baffle with bullshit. " Not at all. Design the wrong size cable and your house will burn down. Design the wrong protective device and you'll electrocute someone. Drill your holes in the wrong place and your first floor will become your ground floor. Unfortunately carrying out these basic design elements is all part of the cost, (and qualification) so you'll not get your fee. Sorry. | |||
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"I fitted my own it's easy just make sure your cable is thick enough for the current, i saved money and didn't have to spend any time with someone like Byron, win win. That's all well and good but did you check that the existing circuit was appropriately rated , installed correctly and in good order? Was the new cooker the same power rating as the old? Whilst likely that you new cooker is not installed dangerously you probably don't have the knowledge or experience to spot the potential pitfalls that could lead to it being unsafe. Old cabling can have its insulation breaking down, insecure connections, inadequate fault protection, missing earth's, unsafe alterations etc. There is more to the job that just connecting a wire. That said, I will be the first to agree that electricians like to exagerate their worth. It is no surprise that people diy their own stuff when faced with electricians smugly hiding behind regulations and qualifications to overcharge you considering that the majority of the day to day tasks of an electrician could be done by a labourer and the 'qualified' part could be done by anyone with a basic understanding and a rulebook (albeit illegally). They rely on the fact they are regulated to imply it take great skill and responsibility to be an electrician when in reality they are only regulated because even the idiots think it is easy enough to do themselves and occasionally get it wrong. I don't think that anyone should be allowed to play with electric and agree that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing but having worked with and around electricians I also know that I wouldn't trust many of them to do a proper job either. Far too busy interpreting the regulations for their own ends, ie for profit or to save time. I like what you're saying. Design me some power circuits. House is two story's, kitchen is on the ground floor. 4 bedrooms. Two bathrooms including an en suite. All bathrooms have electrically heated towel rails. Each floor is 1500 square feet. Ground floor walls are brick, first floor walls are paramount. The loft has 300mm insulation. The walls have 100mm insulation. The floor void between ground and first is uninsulated. 40 double socket outlets upstairs. 25 double sockets downstairs. 20 small power outlets in the kitchen. What size cable? What type of cable? What type of secondary containment? If you're drilling holes through joists for the cables to pass through, what's the maximum hole size and how far away from a supporting structure should they be? How far from the top and bottom of the floor joists should the holes be? How many circuits? What type of protective device? What type of circuits? What size protective device? No problem, it will cost you £2000 and 50% upfront. Deal? Thanks for proving that you are one of those electricians that like to baffle with bullshit. You will also have provide specs of what cooker/hob, shower, boiler and fire/intruder alarm and detection you are having if you want it finalized.." I would also need a floorplan to assess sevice entry, routing, grouping and diversity... | |||
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"I fitted my own it's easy just make sure your cable is thick enough for the current, i saved money and didn't have to spend any time with someone like Byron, win win. That's all well and good but did you check that the existing circuit was appropriately rated , installed correctly and in good order? Was the new cooker the same power rating as the old? Whilst likely that you new cooker is not installed dangerously you probably don't have the knowledge or experience to spot the potential pitfalls that could lead to it being unsafe. Old cabling can have its insulation breaking down, insecure connections, inadequate fault protection, missing earth's, unsafe alterations etc. There is more to the job that just connecting a wire. That said, I will be the first to agree that electricians like to exagerate their worth. It is no surprise that people diy their own stuff when faced with electricians smugly hiding behind regulations and qualifications to overcharge you considering that the majority of the day to day tasks of an electrician could be done by a labourer and the 'qualified' part could be done by anyone with a basic understanding and a rulebook (albeit illegally). They rely on the fact they are regulated to imply it take great skill and responsibility to be an electrician when in reality they are only regulated because even the idiots think it is easy enough to do themselves and occasionally get it wrong. I don't think that anyone should be allowed to play with electric and agree that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing but having worked with and around electricians I also know that I wouldn't trust many of them to do a proper job either. Far too busy interpreting the regulations for their own ends, ie for profit or to save time. I like what you're saying. Design me some power circuits. House is two story's, kitchen is on the ground floor. 4 bedrooms. Two bathrooms including an en suite. All bathrooms have electrically heated towel rails. Each floor is 1500 square feet. Ground floor walls are brick, first floor walls are paramount. The loft has 300mm insulation. The walls have 100mm insulation. The floor void between ground and first is uninsulated. 40 double socket outlets upstairs. 25 double sockets downstairs. 20 small power outlets in the kitchen. What size cable? What type of cable? What type of secondary containment? If you're drilling holes through joists for the cables to pass through, what's the maximum hole size and how far away from a supporting structure should they be? How far from the top and bottom of the floor joists should the holes be? How many circuits? What type of protective device? What type of circuits? What size protective device? No problem, it will cost you £2000 and 50% upfront. Deal? Thanks for proving that you are one of those electricians that like to baffle with bullshit. Not at all. Design the wrong size cable and your house will burn down. Design the wrong protective device and you'll electrocute someone. Drill your holes in the wrong place and your first floor will become your ground floor. Unfortunately carrying out these basic design elements is all part of the cost, (and qualification) so you'll not get your fee. Sorry. "If your asking for design i`m charging for it. I can include it in a price for the full installation if you wish? As for cable sizing and protective devices, they are easily calculated, it doesn`t require a qualification. Same for drilling holes in joists, i`ve not met many elecricians that pay much heed too these particular regulations however I do, and do it regularly and know the rules. and if I didn't, they are easily obtainable both in print and online. Basically all you are saying is that if you don't know what you are doing you might do it wrong. State the obvious why don`t you? What I`m saying is that there is nothing hard about being an electrician, the only skill is remembering some rules and regulations that are easily available, and for the most part nothing more than common sense. | |||
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"I fitted my own it's easy just make sure your cable is thick enough for the current, i saved money and didn't have to spend any time with someone like Byron, win win. That's all well and good but did you check that the existing circuit was appropriately rated , installed correctly and in good order? Was the new cooker the same power rating as the old? Whilst likely that you new cooker is not installed dangerously you probably don't have the knowledge or experience to spot the potential pitfalls that could lead to it being unsafe. Old cabling can have its insulation breaking down, insecure connections, inadequate fault protection, missing earth's, unsafe alterations etc. There is more to the job that just connecting a wire. That said, I will be the first to agree that electricians like to exagerate their worth. It is no surprise that people diy their own stuff when faced with electricians smugly hiding behind regulations and qualifications to overcharge you considering that the majority of the day to day tasks of an electrician could be done by a labourer and the 'qualified' part could be done by anyone with a basic understanding and a rulebook (albeit illegally). They rely on the fact they are regulated to imply it take great skill and responsibility to be an electrician when in reality they are only regulated because even the idiots think it is easy enough to do themselves and occasionally get it wrong. I don't think that anyone should be allowed to play with electric and agree that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing but having worked with and around electricians I also know that I wouldn't trust many of them to do a proper job either. Far too busy interpreting the regulations for their own ends, ie for profit or to save time. " Ye it was all fine i checked ratings and asked a spark i know, i see you get my meaning with Byron the spark/rocket engineer | |||
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