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"Or maybe the story is a case of 2000 year old Chinese whispers that got out of hand. An unmarried Jewish man in his thirties with a Spanish name that had magical powers and turned into a zombie? " Sounds cool They should write a book about it | |||
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"Or maybe the story is a case of 2000 year old Chinese whispers that got out of hand. An unmarried Jewish man in his thirties with a Spanish name that had magical powers and turned into a zombie? Sounds cool They should write a book about it" That made me chuckle | |||
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"Or maybe the story is a case of 2000 year old Chinese whispers that got out of hand. An unmarried Jewish man in his thirties with a Spanish name that had magical powers and turned into a zombie? Sounds cool They should write a book about it That made me chuckle "   | |||
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"The Romans found their old gods offered little protection in terms of protection against plague etc. Other gods like Mithras were popular too. It was only when Constantine converted that the ball started rolling fully for Jesus. Nobody knew what he looked like. He had been portrayed very feminine for a while. But basically the Jesus image we think of, is a recycled Jupiter. Christianity is basically a religion based around 4th Century worries." Protection against plague? How did that work out?  | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool." See that's what I don't understand. Religion is 2000 odd years old but the Earth is 4.54 billion years old? He took his time to appear... | |||
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"The Romans found their old gods offered little protection in terms of protection against plague etc. Other gods like Mithras were popular too. It was only when Constantine converted that the ball started rolling fully for Jesus. Nobody knew what he looked like. He had been portrayed very feminine for a while. But basically the Jesus image we think of, is a recycled Jupiter. Christianity is basically a religion based around 4th Century worries. Protection against plague? How did that work out? "Someone walked too close to you full of plague you stabbed them with your crucifix | |||
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"The Romans found their old gods offered little protection in terms of protection against plague etc. Other gods like Mithras were popular too. It was only when Constantine converted that the ball started rolling fully for Jesus. Nobody knew what he looked like. He had been portrayed very feminine for a while. But basically the Jesus image we think of, is a recycled Jupiter. Christianity is basically a religion based around 4th Century worries. Protection against plague? How did that work out?
Someone walked too close to you full of plague you stabbed them with your crucifix "... | |||
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"The Romans found their old gods offered little protection in terms of protection against plague etc. Other gods like Mithras were popular too. It was only when Constantine converted that the ball started rolling fully for Jesus. Nobody knew what he looked like. He had been portrayed very feminine for a while. But basically the Jesus image we think of, is a recycled Jupiter. Christianity is basically a religion based around 4th Century worries. Protection against plague? How did that work out? "It didn't. Just swapped one lot if empty prayers for another. They thought a prayer nailed to the door would stop the smallpox. Equally they went to the baths to wash the puss off infecting other bathers. They didn't understand what we do now. | |||
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"The Romans found their old gods offered little protection in terms of protection against plague etc. Other gods like Mithras were popular too. It was only when Constantine converted that the ball started rolling fully for Jesus. Nobody knew what he looked like. He had been portrayed very feminine for a while. But basically the Jesus image we think of, is a recycled Jupiter. Christianity is basically a religion based around 4th Century worries. Protection against plague? How did that work out?
It didn't. Just swapped one lot if empty prayers for another. They thought a prayer nailed to the door would stop the smallpox. Equally they went to the baths to wash the puss off infecting other bathers. They didn't understand what we do now."But surely if there was a God there would be a plague in the first place? | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool." All religion is dangerous, not just Christianity. To many wars have started with the idea that my imaginary friend is better than yours. People can believe in what they want. If it gives you splice, fair play. But tell someone your an aethiest and nine times out of ten they look at you like you’ve just taken a dump in their shoe. | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. See that's what I don't understand. Religion is 2000 odd years old but the Earth is 4.54 billion years old? He took his time to appear... " It also took a further 1,966 for England to win the World Cup. It’ll probably be way after the Second Coming when England win again. Doesn’t stop you believing (all be it every only every 4 years) in the meantime. | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. See that's what I don't understand. Religion is 2000 odd years old but the Earth is 4.54 billion years old? He took his time to appear... It also took a further 1,966 for England to win the World Cup. It’ll probably be way after the Second Coming when England win again. Doesn’t stop you believing (all be it every only every 4 years) in the meantime. " Does England have a football team? | |||
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" I have no isue with a person of faith, " Of course you don’t. But you’ll keep digging and needling to try to get a response that fits your narrative of people with a faith being greedy, thick or whatever. I’ll leave this now. When it comes to religion on this site everyone is judgemental as fuck. | |||
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"The Romans found their old gods offered little protection in terms of protection against plague etc. Other gods like Mithras were popular too. It was only when Constantine converted that the ball started rolling fully for Jesus. Nobody knew what he looked like. He had been portrayed very feminine for a while. But basically the Jesus image we think of, is a recycled Jupiter. Christianity is basically a religion based around 4th Century worries." nobody worked out not to drink from the toilet would have been easier | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. See that's what I don't understand. Religion is 2000 odd years old but the Earth is 4.54 billion years old? He took his time to appear... It also took a further 1,966 for England to win the World Cup. It’ll probably be way after the Second Coming when England win again. Doesn’t stop you believing (all be it every only every 4 years) in the meantime. Does England have a football team? "Similar could be applied to the welsh rugby team and World Cups! Except they’re still waiting!
And yes I’m ducking for cover! | |||
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"Who made God? Was he sat round in a void for an eternity then thought hey, I need a world to own! Where did he get the material? Why make the earth seem older with fossils than just being as old as Adam and Eve?" Have you watched the series Miracle Workers?
https://youtu.be/21O7hDz2VuM | |||
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"Who made God? Was he sat round in a void for an eternity then thought hey, I need a world to own! Where did he get the material? [" Wickes TradePro | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. See that's what I don't understand. Religion is 2000 odd years old but the Earth is 4.54 billion years old? He took his time to appear... It also took a further 1,966 for England to win the World Cup. It’ll probably be way after the Second Coming when England win again. Doesn’t stop you believing (all be it every only every 4 years) in the meantime. Does England have a football team?
Similar could be applied to the welsh rugby team and World Cups! Except they’re still waiting!
And yes I’m ducking for cover!"Cough cough Six Nations cough cough  | |||
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" I have no isue with a person of faith, Of course you don’t. But you’ll keep digging and needling to try to get a response that fits your narrative of people with a faith being greedy, thick or whatever. I’ll leave this now. When it comes to religion on this site everyone is judgemental as fuck. " I have no issue with religions, the narrative you speak of might be my distaste for the promoted hatred some wish to use. Also the anti-science that comes around from som extreme religious beliefs. the bible did not get YOU onto the internet and it never will, if we read the bible it'd tell us bats are birds...etc etc etc faith is great for people that need that in their lives, but they must also conclude when you have some shit story about gods/second comings etc, that these are purely fiction. theres the facts. | |||
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" I have no isue with a person of faith, Of course you don’t. But you’ll keep digging and needling to try to get a response that fits your narrative of people with a faith being greedy, thick or whatever. I’ll leave this now. When it comes to religion on this site everyone is judgemental as fuck. " Sorry to say this but the most judgmental people I have ever met where Christian... just saying. | |||
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"Some the most judgemental people I've ever met seem to be on Fab ... which isn't renowned for being a religious community ..." This is my Church This is where I heal my hurts It's in natural grace Or watching young lives shape It's in minor keys Solutions and remedies Enemies becoming friends When bitterness ends This is my Church This is my Church This is my Church This is where I heal my hurts It's in the world I've become Containded in the hum between voice and drum It's in change The poetic justice of cause and effect Respect, Love, Compassion This is my Church This is where I heal my hurts For tonight God Is A SWINGER For tonight God Is A SWINGER This is my Church offetory donations will be used to pay gods single guy fees at various uk clubs | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. See that's what I don't understand. Religion is 2000 odd years old but the Earth is 4.54 billion years old? He took his time to appear... It also took a further 1,966 for England to win the World Cup. It’ll probably be way after the Second Coming when England win again. Doesn’t stop you believing (all be it every only every 4 years) in the meantime. " | |||
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"Everyone wants to believe something even without too much evidence to support it. Look how many people play the lottery lured in by the idea they can win millions. And then there's Brexit ... At the heart of the mainstream religions are the concepts of tolerance and doing good. No bad thing. But people will always act in a tribal way which when mixed with dogma and fundamentalism will always cause particular problems whether it's religion or politics. " | |||
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"If you replace the word "god" with the word "nature" in any religious text, it makes a lot more sense." not if you want to explain the natural world, using research and evidence, unfortunately this is something biblical 'data' fails upon. | |||
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"Some the most judgemental people I've ever met seem to be on Fab ... which isn't renowned for being a religious community ... This is my Church This is where I heal my hurts It's in natural grace Or watching young lives shape It's in minor keys Solutions and remedies Enemies becoming friends When bitterness ends This is my Church This is my Church This is my Church This is where I heal my hurts It's in the world I've become Containded in the hum between voice and drum It's in change The poetic justice of cause and effect Respect, Love, Compassion This is my Church This is where I heal my hurts For tonight God Is A SWINGER For tonight God Is A SWINGER This is my Church offetory donations will be used to pay gods single guy fees at various uk clubs" Faithless ...classic | |||
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"Or maybe the story is a case of 2000 year old Chinese whispers that got out of hand. An unmarried Jewish man in his thirties with a Spanish name that had magical powers and turned into a zombie? " I think Mary just came up with a wild-assed excuse having been caught out pregnant. 'Fucked by God'?....yeah okay..  | |||
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"Or maybe the story is a case of 2000 year old Chinese whispers that got out of hand. An unmarried Jewish man in his thirties with a Spanish name that had magical powers and turned into a zombie? I think Mary just came up with a wild-assed excuse having been caught out pregnant. 'Fucked by God'?....yeah okay.. "It’s accepted that “virgin mother” was a mistranslation if “unmarried mother” | |||
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"Or maybe the story is a case of 2000 year old Chinese whispers that got out of hand. An unmarried Jewish man in his thirties with a Spanish name that had magical powers and turned into a zombie? I think Mary just came up with a wild-assed excuse having been caught out pregnant. 'Fucked by God'?....yeah okay..
It’s accepted that “virgin mother” was a mistranslation if “unmarried mother”"also accepted there's been a few other jesus's before him lol..like hundreds of years before. | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. See that's what I don't understand. Religion is 2000 odd years old but the Earth is 4.54 billion years old? He took his time to appear... " There were religions before Christianity. | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. See that's what I don't understand. Religion is 2000 odd years old but the Earth is 4.54 billion years old? He took his time to appear... There were religions before Christianity. " I agree but in Christian faith I meant... I'm a 'believe it when I see it' sort of guy... | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. See that's what I don't understand. Religion is 2000 odd years old but the Earth is 4.54 billion years old? He took his time to appear... There were religions before Christianity. I agree but in Christian faith I meant... I'm a 'believe it when I see it' sort of guy... "Faith is about believing it even though you can't see it. | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. See that's what I don't understand. Religion is 2000 odd years old but the Earth is 4.54 billion years old? He took his time to appear... There were religions before Christianity. I agree but in Christian faith I meant... I'm a 'believe it when I see it' sort of guy...
Faith is about believing it even though you can't see it.
"Oh yeah... but surely you have to believe also? I really don't know anything about religion to be honest. I didn't intend this thread to get so serious... x | |||
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"Jesus is a literary construct. What we know of him today comes from four gospels, carefully selected in the year 325 by the early RC church to paint a favourable picture of their god. Many other gospels (such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of the Infant Jesus) were rejected as unfavourable to their cause. Pope Leo gave the game away in the 1500s when he said "it has served us well, this myth of Jesus." A myth is all that he is, he probably never existed. " Well said! It is amazing how many people still have faith. I suppose it's better than facing reality for most people? | |||
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" Stock answer is "God moves in mysterious ways". Jesus H Christ will return to sort out Brexit.this millenium. .p.s. What does the H stand for..doth thouest know "Mark Twain recounts a practical joke a friend played on a revival preacher when Twain was an apprentice in a printing shop that Alexander Campbell, a famous evangelist then visiting Hannibal, hired to print a pamphlet of his sermon. While checking the galleys, Twain's fellow apprentice, Wales McCormick, found he had to make room for some dropped words, which he managed by shortening Jesus Christ on the same line to J. C. As soon as Campbell had read the proofs, he swept indignantly into the shop and commanded McCormick, "So long as you live, don't you ever diminish the Savior's name again. Put it all in." The puckish McCormick obeyed, and then some: he set Jesus H. Christ and printed up all the pamphlets. Didn't use google I swear to god!! | |||
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" Stock answer is "God moves in mysterious ways". Jesus H Christ will return to sort out Brexit.this millenium. .p.s. What does the H stand for..doth thouest know
Mark Twain recounts a practical joke a friend played on a revival preacher when Twain was an apprentice in a printing shop that Alexander Campbell, a famous evangelist then visiting Hannibal, hired to print a pamphlet of his sermon. While checking the galleys, Twain's fellow apprentice, Wales McCormick, found he had to make room for some dropped words, which he managed by shortening Jesus Christ on the same line to J. C. As soon as Campbell had read the proofs, he swept indignantly into the shop and commanded McCormick, "So long as you live, don't you ever diminish the Savior's name again. Put it all in." The puckish McCormick obeyed, and then some: he set Jesus H. Christ and printed up all the pamphlets.
Didn't use google I swear to god!! "bless thee my child,thou wilts not burn in hell..innit !  | |||
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"Jesus is our king ."which one? there may have been 12 before him,or more lol | |||
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"Jesus is a literary construct. What we know of him today comes from four gospels, carefully selected in the year 325 by the early RC church to paint a favourable picture of their god. Many other gospels (such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of the Infant Jesus) were rejected as unfavourable to their cause. Pope Leo gave the game away in the 1500s when he said "it has served us well, this myth of Jesus." A myth is all that he is, he probably never existed. Well said! It is amazing how many people still have faith. I suppose it's better than facing reality for most people? " or even lie they are well versed in the bible lol, flattards with the dome above us mentality say its in the scripture, even the devouts say its not there, aye believe in something you believe in that isn't even true from the evidence you cited, you moronic twats. | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. All religion is dangerous, not just Christianity. To many wars have started with the idea that my imaginary friend is better than yours. People can believe in what they want. If it gives you splice, fair play. But tell someone your an aethiest and nine times out of ten they look at you like you’ve just taken a dump in their shoe. " I disagree that religion causes war, the problem is people unacceptance of others beliefs.. I never understood it with people mock others for their beliefs regardless of religion.. | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. All religion is dangerous, not just Christianity. To many wars have started with the idea that my imaginary friend is better than yours. People can believe in what they want. If it gives you splice, fair play. But tell someone your an aethiest and nine times out of ten they look at you like you’ve just taken a dump in their shoe. I disagree that religion causes war, the problem is people unacceptance of others beliefs.. I never understood it with people mock others for their beliefs regardless of religion.. " At least we're not standing in the street or knocking peoples doors forcing our thoughts and opinions on people... | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. All religion is dangerous, not just Christianity. To many wars have started with the idea that my imaginary friend is better than yours. People can believe in what they want. If it gives you splice, fair play. But tell someone your an aethiest and nine times out of ten they look at you like you’ve just taken a dump in their shoe. I disagree that religion causes war, the problem is people unacceptance of others beliefs.. I never understood it with people mock others for their beliefs regardless of religion.. At least we're not standing in the street or knocking peoples doors forcing our thoughts and opinions on people... "Also wrong, but in your world 2 wrongs make a right? | |||
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"Jesus is our king .
which one? there may have been 12 before him,or more lol"Yes the one and only one | |||
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"Jesus is a literary construct. What we know of him today comes from four gospels, carefully selected in the year 325 by the early RC church to paint a favourable picture of their god. Many other gospels (such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of the Infant Jesus) were rejected as unfavourable to their cause. Pope Leo gave the game away in the 1500s when he said "it has served us well, this myth of Jesus." A myth is all that he is, he probably never existed. Well said! It is amazing how many people still have faith. I suppose it's better than facing reality for most people? " I see reality every single day in the most raw way, which I imagine not many of you guys do. It strengthens my faith. I suspect you all think me a simpleton, idiot or gullible. I’m none of those. Why should I be ashamed of my faith? | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. All religion is dangerous, not just Christianity. To many wars have started with the idea that my imaginary friend is better than yours. People can believe in what they want. If it gives you splice, fair play. But tell someone your an aethiest and nine times out of ten they look at you like you’ve just taken a dump in their shoe. I disagree that religion causes war, the problem is people unacceptance of others beliefs.. I never understood it with people mock others for their beliefs regardless of religion.. " most religions are based on fear, if you really want to look at it properly you might have to understand a lot of it is to do with scarcity(crops,land oil,women, when there is a finite amount of these(sorry women people, it is the old way of value and in some places still is). Battles are fought for ideals, and then to impose the will on another, this is really religion at its heart, no way of denying it. A few thousand years later some are able to adapt to the modern world and religion is important but not entirely realistic. tye oines that havent are the ones that have heavy money investment things like oil etc, i dont think its hidden like so many conspiroitards would like you to believe its pretty open. you have or you have not. Now, back to religion, these above mentioned people do control a lot of their populations, like most humans they can be selfish,greedy and stupid when it serves them best. another side note, how many people can honestly say they are happy with the huge coverup by the catholic church, in areas around the world.We'd blame oxfam moreso than the vatican, based purely on faith(ie those people are closer to god). Another..whoops,is royalty, it is merely a way of saying your bloodline is closer to god than another, while we know this is scientifically inaccurate, people choose to believe it. he or she whatever they are, are no better than your child, your mother, etc. No better at all.Challenge yourself if you think that. | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. All religion is dangerous, not just Christianity. To many wars have started with the idea that my imaginary friend is better than yours. People can believe in what they want. If it gives you splice, fair play. But tell someone your an aethiest and nine times out of ten they look at you like you’ve just taken a dump in their shoe. I disagree that religion causes war, the problem is people unacceptance of others beliefs.. I never understood it with people mock others for their beliefs regardless of religion.. At least we're not standing in the street or knocking peoples doors forcing our thoughts and opinions on people...
Also wrong, but in your world 2 wrongs make a right? "I don't understand? Are you saying this thread is forcing our opinions onto people? You have the option to avoid it and move on. When they're at my door or in the town it's u avoidable... | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. All religion is dangerous, not just Christianity. To many wars have started with the idea that my imaginary friend is better than yours. People can believe in what they want. If it gives you splice, fair play. But tell someone your an aethiest and nine times out of ten they look at you like you’ve just taken a dump in their shoe. I disagree that religion causes war, the problem is people unacceptance of others beliefs.. I never understood it with people mock others for their beliefs regardless of religion.. most religions are based on fear, if you really want to look at it properly you might have to understand a lot of it is to do with scarcity(crops,land oil,women, when there is a finite amount of these(sorry women people, it is the old way of value and in some places still is). Battles are fought for ideals, and then to impose the will on another, this is really religion at its heart, no way of denying it. A few thousand years later some are able to adapt to the modern world and religion is important but not entirely realistic. tye oines that havent are the ones that have heavy money investment things like oil etc, i dont think its hidden like so many conspiroitards would like you to believe its pretty open. you have or you have not. Now, back to religion, these above mentioned people do control a lot of their populations, like most humans they can be selfish,greedy and stupid when it serves them best. another side note, how many people can honestly say they are happy with the huge coverup by the catholic church, in areas around the world.We'd blame oxfam moreso than the vatican, based purely on faith(ie those people are closer to god). Another..whoops,is royalty, it is merely a way of saying your bloodline is closer to god than another, while we know this is scientifically inaccurate, people choose to believe it. he or she whatever they are, are no better than your child, your mother, etc. No better at all.Challenge yourself if you think that." I’ll keep it short and simple, I don’t need to challenge myself.. I’m not religious, I accept people beliefs and don’t lose sleep over it.. I just think live and let live.. | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. All religion is dangerous, not just Christianity. To many wars have started with the idea that my imaginary friend is better than yours. People can believe in what they want. If it gives you splice, fair play. But tell someone your an aethiest and nine times out of ten they look at you like you’ve just taken a dump in their shoe. I disagree that religion causes war, the problem is people unacceptance of others beliefs.. I never understood it with people mock others for their beliefs regardless of religion.. At least we're not standing in the street or knocking peoples doors forcing our thoughts and opinions on people...
Also wrong, but in your world 2 wrongs make a right?
I don't understand? Are you saying this thread is forcing our opinions onto people? You have the option to avoid it and move on. When they're at my door or in the town it's u avoidable... "I know you don’t understand.. | |||
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"Jesus is a literary construct. What we know of him today comes from four gospels, carefully selected in the year 325 by the early RC church to paint a favourable picture of their god. Many other gospels (such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of the Infant Jesus) were rejected as unfavourable to their cause. Pope Leo gave the game away in the 1500s when he said "it has served us well, this myth of Jesus." A myth is all that he is, he probably never existed. Well said! It is amazing how many people still have faith. I suppose it's better than facing reality for most people? I see reality every single day in the most raw way, which I imagine not many of you guys do. It strengthens my faith. I suspect you all think me a simpleton, idiot or gullible. I’m none of those. Why should I be ashamed of my faith?" You shouldn't be... but you also have to understand the people who don't have faith or beliefs. I just find it very very difficult to understand and believe. The things in the bible are impossible! If they were possible why don't things like that happen now? Has he given up on Earth and it's people? Where is he when people are getting shot in places of worship? When kids are dying of cancer? When mojot disasters strike? I just can't understand if there is a God why does he let these things happen? Please don't say he works in mysterious ways... | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. All religion is dangerous, not just Christianity. To many wars have started with the idea that my imaginary friend is better than yours. People can believe in what they want. If it gives you splice, fair play. But tell someone your an aethiest and nine times out of ten they look at you like you’ve just taken a dump in their shoe. I disagree that religion causes war, the problem is people unacceptance of others beliefs.. I never understood it with people mock others for their beliefs regardless of religion.. At least we're not standing in the street or knocking peoples doors forcing our thoughts and opinions on people...
Also wrong, but in your world 2 wrongs make a right?
I don't understand? Are you saying this thread is forcing our opinions onto people? You have the option to avoid it and move on. When they're at my door or in the town it's u avoidable...
I know you don’t understand.. "No I don't!! | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. All religion is dangerous, not just Christianity. To many wars have started with the idea that my imaginary friend is better than yours. People can believe in what they want. If it gives you splice, fair play. But tell someone your an aethiest and nine times out of ten they look at you like you’ve just taken a dump in their shoe. I disagree that religion causes war, the problem is people unacceptance of others beliefs.. I never understood it with people mock others for their beliefs regardless of religion.. At least we're not standing in the street or knocking peoples doors forcing our thoughts and opinions on people...
Also wrong, but in your world 2 wrongs make a right?
I don't understand? Are you saying this thread is forcing our opinions onto people? You have the option to avoid it and move on. When they're at my door or in the town it's u avoidable...
I know you don’t understand..
No I don't!!"Yes.. I know.. | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. All religion is dangerous, not just Christianity. To many wars have started with the idea that my imaginary friend is better than yours. People can believe in what they want. If it gives you splice, fair play. But tell someone your an aethiest and nine times out of ten they look at you like you’ve just taken a dump in their shoe. I disagree that religion causes war, the problem is people unacceptance of others beliefs.. I never understood it with people mock others for their beliefs regardless of religion.. most religions are based on fear, if you really want to look at it properly you might have to understand a lot of it is to do with scarcity(crops,land oil,women, when there is a finite amount of these(sorry women people, it is the old way of value and in some places still is). Battles are fought for ideals, and then to impose the will on another, this is really religion at its heart, no way of denying it. A few thousand years later some are able to adapt to the modern world and religion is important but not entirely realistic. tye oines that havent are the ones that have heavy money investment things like oil etc, i dont think its hidden like so many conspiroitards would like you to believe its pretty open. you have or you have not. Now, back to religion, these above mentioned people do control a lot of their populations, like most humans they can be selfish,greedy and stupid when it serves them best. another side note, how many people can honestly say they are happy with the huge coverup by the catholic church, in areas around the world.We'd blame oxfam moreso than the vatican, based purely on faith(ie those people are closer to god). Another..whoops,is royalty, it is merely a way of saying your bloodline is closer to god than another, while we know this is scientifically inaccurate, people choose to believe it. he or she whatever they are, are no better than your child, your mother, etc. No better at all.Challenge yourself if you think that. I’ll keep it short and simple, I don’t need to challenge myself.. I’m not religious, I accept people beliefs and don’t lose sleep over it.. I just think live and let live.. " as I said, theres a few factors lol. If you support any monarchy, it is based on religion. there is nothing to distinguish any human from another,in humanic terms. | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. All religion is dangerous, not just Christianity. To many wars have started with the idea that my imaginary friend is better than yours. People can believe in what they want. If it gives you splice, fair play. But tell someone your an aethiest and nine times out of ten they look at you like you’ve just taken a dump in their shoe. I disagree that religion causes war, the problem is people unacceptance of others beliefs.. I never understood it with people mock others for their beliefs regardless of religion.. At least we're not standing in the street or knocking peoples doors forcing our thoughts and opinions on people...
Also wrong, but in your world 2 wrongs make a right?
I don't understand? Are you saying this thread is forcing our opinions onto people? You have the option to avoid it and move on. When they're at my door or in the town it's u avoidable...
I know you don’t understand..
No I don't!!
Yes.. I know.. "I know you know | |||
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"I am proudly atheist BUT would not deride others faith. Many people get a lot from their faith and it is very important to them. It isn't religion that causes the problem, it is fanaticism of any description. Too many countries also use religion as a way to control and intimidate. I work with a lot of faith groups who do a huge amount of good. As long as nobody tried to force their beliefs on me, it's fine. Nita" I totally agree. I was homeless a long time ago in London and churches opened their doors to the homeless. I'm not knocking the good they do. I just don't understand it... | |||
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" I have no isue with a person of faith, Of course you don’t. But you’ll keep digging and needling to try to get a response that fits your narrative of people with a faith being greedy, thick or whatever. I’ll leave this now. When it comes to religion on this site everyone is judgemental as fuck. "
And interesting reading knowledgeable 'facts' by those who actually know nothing or little on the subject... It's a funny ol' thread. We've had the racists threads, the bigotry threads and this one smells too. | |||
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"Jesus is a literary construct. What we know of him today comes from four gospels, carefully selected in the year 325 by the early RC church to paint a favourable picture of their god. Many other gospels (such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of the Infant Jesus) were rejected as unfavourable to their cause. Pope Leo gave the game away in the 1500s when he said "it has served us well, this myth of Jesus." A myth is all that he is, he probably never existed. " I think many historians would disagree. The documentary evidence that Jesus existed is very strong. And that he caused problems for the Romans. The controversial part (what you are probably referring to as 'the myth') is when you enter the realm of faith and whether he was the Son of God and rose from the grave. Some believe and some don't. | |||
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"Jesus is a literary construct. What we know of him today comes from four gospels, carefully selected in the year 325 by the early RC church to paint a favourable picture of their god. Many other gospels (such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of the Infant Jesus) were rejected as unfavourable to their cause. Pope Leo gave the game away in the 1500s when he said "it has served us well, this myth of Jesus." A myth is all that he is, he probably never existed. I think many historians would disagree. The documentary evidence that Jesus existed is very strong. And that he caused problems for the Romans. The controversial part (what you are probably referring to as 'the myth') is when you enter the realm of faith and whether he was the Son of God and rose from the grave. Some believe and some don't. " There probably was a guy named Jesus... he probably was a prophet of some sorts. Leader of people? Hope from suffering? A man of words? But come on... he walked on water? And did all the things the bible says he did? He's the son of God who created the World? He probably did die on the cross etc... It's just stories of a man who did wonderful things for people that have been over exaggerated or stories that have been told so many times and changed in translation... who knows for sure who, what or where he is... All I know is that if there was a God or Jesus... Why is there such evil in the World? Why are people dying at the hands and actions of others? Why are people dying of diseases and Cancer? Why is there famine... now in 2019 people are starving to death. Why are there wars? Why does Mother Nature devestate and destroy the Earth people and lives? Why are people getting shot in places of worship of all places? Why are there so many pointless and needless deaths and suffering? I'm sorry... but if he does exist and he's letting these things happen. I don't nothing to do with him!! | |||
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"Jesus is a literary construct. What we know of him today comes from four gospels, carefully selected in the year 325 by the early RC church to paint a favourable picture of their god. Many other gospels (such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of the Infant Jesus) were rejected as unfavourable to their cause. Pope Leo gave the game away in the 1500s when he said "it has served us well, this myth of Jesus." A myth is all that he is, he probably never existed. I think many historians would disagree. The documentary evidence that Jesus existed is very strong. And that he caused problems for the Romans. The controversial part (what you are probably referring to as 'the myth') is when you enter the realm of faith and whether he was the Son of God and rose from the grave. Some believe and some don't. There probably was a guy named Jesus... he probably was a prophet of some sorts. Leader of people? Hope from suffering? A man of words? But come on... he walked on water? And did all the things the bible says he did? He's the son of God who created the World? He probably did die on the cross etc... It's just stories of a man who did wonderful things for people that have been over exaggerated or stories that have been told so many times and changed in translation... who knows for sure who, what or where he is... All I know is that if there was a God or Jesus... Why is there such evil in the World? Why are people dying at the hands and actions of others? Why are people dying of diseases and Cancer? Why is there famine... now in 2019 people are starving to death. Why are there wars? Why does Mother Nature devestate and destroy the Earth people and lives? Why are people getting shot in places of worship of all places? Why are there so many pointless and needless deaths and suffering? I'm sorry... but if he does exist and he's letting these things happen. I don't nothing to do with him!! " Earliest accounts of Jesus were not written til well after his life was over. Whether he existed or not is of course debatable (depending on who you ask). Josephus is the earliest historical reference mention of him (twice, I believe), around 50 years after his death. Canonical references were not written at the time he lived, and were in oral form for quite some time. As to the whys mentioned above: Why is there such evil in the World? Other than some humans, where is the evil? Why are people dying at the hands and actions of others? Politics and power. Why are people dying of diseases and Cancer? We all have to die somehow. What we call disease is often simply another life form trying to survive. We kill plants and animals to eat and make houses; so do bacteria and viruses (though often not "intentionally," they are simply seeking a symbiotic host. Why is there famine... now in 2019 people are starving to death. Why are there wars? To both: Politics! There's more than enough food in the world even now to feed everyone, it's some in power who insist on grabbing their share of the loot and not caring that the people who can't make those decisions themselves who cause the starvation. Why does Mother Nature devestate and destroy the Earth people and lives? Does it, really? or is the Earth simply doing what it always does, changing as it needs to (as we kill for food and shelter)? Also--it's scientifically shown that humans use of resources are causing a lot of these destructive things--climate change means stronger storms, fracking causes earthquakes, etc. Why are there so many pointless and needless deaths and suffering? The animals people eat truly suffer, and for needless and pointless deaths. Not sure god (or lack of) is the one responsible. "I'm sorry... but if he does exist and he's letting these things happen. I don't nothing to do with him!! I see more incrimination against humans than against god." And for me: ex Catholic, I am not religious at all. | |||
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"Jesus is a literary construct. What we know of him today comes from four gospels, carefully selected in the year 325 by the early RC church to paint a favourable picture of their god. Many other gospels (such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of the Infant Jesus) were rejected as unfavourable to their cause. Pope Leo gave the game away in the 1500s when he said "it has served us well, this myth of Jesus." A myth is all that he is, he probably never existed. I think many historians would disagree. The documentary evidence that Jesus existed is very strong. And that he caused problems for the Romans. The controversial part (what you are probably referring to as 'the myth') is when you enter the realm of faith and whether he was the Son of God and rose from the grave. Some believe and some don't. There probably was a guy named Jesus... he probably was a prophet of some sorts. Leader of people? Hope from suffering? A man of words? But come on... he walked on water? And did all the things the bible says he did? He's the son of God who created the World? He probably did die on the cross etc... It's just stories of a man who did wonderful things for people that have been over exaggerated or stories that have been told so many times and changed in translation... who knows for sure who, what or where he is... All I know is that if there was a God or Jesus... Why is there such evil in the World? Why are people dying at the hands and actions of others? Why are people dying of diseases and Cancer? Why is there famine... now in 2019 people are starving to death. Why are there wars? Why does Mother Nature devestate and destroy the Earth people and lives? Why are people getting shot in places of worship of all places? Why are there so many pointless and needless deaths and suffering? I'm sorry... but if he does exist and he's letting these things happen. I don't nothing to do with him!! Earliest accounts of Jesus were not written til well after his life was over. Whether he existed or not is of course debatable (depending on who you ask). Josephus is the earliest historical reference mention of him (twice, I believe), around 50 years after his death. Canonical references were not written at the time he lived, and were in oral form for quite some time. As to the whys mentioned above: Why is there such evil in the World? Other than some humans, where is the evil? Why are people dying at the hands and actions of others? Politics and power. Why are people dying of diseases and Cancer? We all have to die somehow. What we call disease is often simply another life form trying to survive. We kill plants and animals to eat and make houses; so do bacteria and viruses (though often not "intentionally," they are simply seeking a symbiotic host. Why is there famine... now in 2019 people are starving to death. Why are there wars? To both: Politics! There's more than enough food in the world even now to feed everyone, it's some in power who insist on grabbing their share of the loot and not caring that the people who can't make those decisions themselves who cause the starvation. Why does Mother Nature devestate and destroy the Earth people and lives? Does it, really? or is the Earth simply doing what it always does, changing as it needs to (as we kill for food and shelter)? Also--it's scientifically shown that humans use of resources are causing a lot of these destructive things--climate change means stronger storms, fracking causes earthquakes, etc. Why are there so many pointless and needless deaths and suffering? The animals people eat truly suffer, and for needless and pointless deaths. Not sure god (or lack of) is the one responsible. "I'm sorry... but if he does exist and he's letting these things happen. I don't nothing to do with him!! I see more incrimination against humans than against god." And for me: ex Catholic, I am not religious at all." My question still stands. Why is he letting this happen? Why isn't he here guiding us and showing us the way... He once walked the Earth once... well... twice and they say he will return again. Where the fuck is he? You say it's humans that are evil? Didn't he create humans? Why is he giving people evil thoughts? Why is he letting politicians and World leaders or making them do the things they do? Also is Cancer a life form? No! Why did he create a World that evolves in a way that is kills people? Yes I agree humans have had some part in that. But we didn't invent volcanoes... If he is almighty and powerful he has the power to change the mess 'his' creations have made. So yes... why is he letting this happen? | |||
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). I think Middle1016 answered it very well in my opinion. Some don't want to believe because it raises for many unanswerable questions or answers that are not comfortable to sit with.
Just because I don't know an answer isn't a basis for disbelief imo, all it demonstrates is that I don't know and not that something exists or not. It's reflective of my lack of knowledge or understanding.
Maybe this can apply to the conclusion many come to that because of all the suffering and pain and evil in this world that there must not be a God. This can only be true if God thinks as we do with our finite minds and in our 'evil' state of mind. But if we were perfect and were able to think say as God then maybe we would understand why these things are not prevented.
Then again if we were perfect there would be no need for intervention of evil that wouldn't be happening as a result of our perfectness.
Back to my original question, if we don't understand that there maybe a bigger reason, more important issue, which is at stake how can we say that there must not be a God if they allow these things to happen? It only demonstrates that we don't understand, not that it doesn't exist. Our conclusions become incorrect because of incorrect assumptions.
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"This has been a very tame thread on religion, and for the most part respectful. Not always the case. I’m comfortable in my beliefs. I quietly go about my everyday life and rarely discuss it with anyone. I’ve thought long and hard about what I believe and have come to conclusions I’m happy with. But what is it about religion, specifically Christianity, that makes people so aggressive? The vitriol faced is often quite shocking. I have a theory that those so who are the most vitriolic aren’t as comfortable in their own views as they pretend. " There are people who go about their business in a humanist way, doing good things for others, not for the reward of a better afterlife but because they are good people. Having faith in anything isn't necessarily a bad thing, it is how you express yourself in words and deeds can often put people's backs up. As you can imagine, over here it is trickier when we have so many different versions of Christianity vying for power and control. Since the advent of monotheistic religion, with a single god, the principle religions have spread through conquest and violence, preaching and conversions. Their way of worshipping their god is the only way to salvation. Given that we/they share principally the same god (with the exception of Buddism) who is right and who is wrong? | |||
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"This has been a very tame thread on religion, and for the most part respectful. Not always the case. I’m comfortable in my beliefs. I quietly go about my everyday life and rarely discuss it with anyone. I’ve thought long and hard about what I believe and have come to conclusions I’m happy with. But what is it about religion, specifically Christianity, that makes people so aggressive? The vitriol faced is often quite shocking. I have a theory that those so who are the most vitriolic aren’t as comfortable in their own views as they pretend. " I'm respectful of Religion. Just very passionate about the World issues that are so terrible. Why is this happening when God is supposed to be loving? I'm sorry if my comments have offended anyone. | |||
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"This has been a very tame thread on religion, and for the most part respectful. Not always the case. I’m comfortable in my beliefs. I quietly go about my everyday life and rarely discuss it with anyone. I’ve thought long and hard about what I believe and have come to conclusions I’m happy with. But what is it about religion, specifically Christianity, that makes people so aggressive? The vitriol faced is often quite shocking. I have a theory that those so who are the most vitriolic aren’t as comfortable in their own views as they pretend. There are people who go about their business in a humanist way, doing good things for others, not for the reward of a better afterlife but because they are good people. Having faith in anything isn't necessarily a bad thing, it is how you express yourself in words and deeds can often put people's backs up. As you can imagine, over here it is trickier when we have so many different versions of Christianity vying for power and control. Since the advent of monotheistic religion, with a single god, the principle religions have spread through conquest and violence, preaching and conversions. Their way of worshipping their god is the only way to salvation. Given that we/they share principally the same god (with the exception of Buddism) who is right and who is wrong? " There are many religions that wouldn't be monotheistic. Hinduism the most obvious with thousands of deities. Then there's polytheism and pantheism which is popular across Africa and Polynesia too. Not sure they would agree saying it's the same god since there are many. | |||
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" .......... Now we have collections of written texts, from earlier oral stories, in some cases with irreligious people picking which bits to keep or bin, creating a so called word of God, often with mich of it disagreeing with other bits of it. .................... Maybe a man called Jesus lived or the son of God but none of the bible was written by anyone who met him 2000 years ago - it seems to have been written much later. As the stories and individuals often bear uncanny similarities to pagan or other older ones, it seems reasonable to conclude that many were included and synthesized into subsequent religions, even though many will insist that they are, more or less, the word of God. " Just too many thing wrong there to even start. Scrolls have been found written at the time of his activities, some written by non believers, historians and then passages of current scripture, which seems odd if they wanted to disclaim his presence or activities. The basis of some of your arguments are not factual but based upon theories, some put together to try to display a different fact. History is a strange thing. We speak of millions of years old as if it were fact. One needs to remember there's a lot of theories and speculations that even come up with much of you acceptations on age and history. | |||
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"This has been a very tame thread on religion, and for the most part respectful. Not always the case. I’m comfortable in my beliefs. I quietly go about my everyday life and rarely discuss it with anyone. I’ve thought long and hard about what I believe and have come to conclusions I’m happy with. But what is it about religion, specifically Christianity, that makes people so aggressive? The vitriol faced is often quite shocking. I have a theory that those so who are the most vitriolic aren’t as comfortable in their own views as they pretend. I'm respectful of Religion. Just very passionate about the World issues that are so terrible. Why is this happening when God is supposed to be loving? I'm sorry if my comments have offended anyone. " No..I appreciate your viewpoint and one that makes me ponder. Certainly not offended (except for the totally unnecessary Six Nations point ). | |||
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"This has been a very tame thread on religion, and for the most part respectful. Not always the case. I’m comfortable in my beliefs. I quietly go about my everyday life and rarely discuss it with anyone. I’ve thought long and hard about what I believe and have come to conclusions I’m happy with. But what is it about religion, specifically Christianity, that makes people so aggressive? The vitriol faced is often quite shocking. I have a theory that those so who are the most vitriolic aren’t as comfortable in their own views as they pretend. I'm respectful of Religion. Just very passionate about the World issues that are so terrible. Why is this happening when God is supposed to be loving? I'm sorry if my comments have offended anyone. No..I appreciate your viewpoint and one that makes me ponder. Certainly not offended (except for the totally unnecessary Six Nations point )."Being Welsh I overlooked it, like we did with the rest of the 5 nations | |||
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" .......... Now we have collections of written texts, from earlier oral stories, in some cases with irreligious people picking which bits to keep or bin, creating a so called word of God, often with mich of it disagreeing with other bits of it. .................... Maybe a man called Jesus lived or the son of God but none of the bible was written by anyone who met him 2000 years ago - it seems to have been written much later. As the stories and individuals often bear uncanny similarities to pagan or other older ones, it seems reasonable to conclude that many were included and synthesized into subsequent religions, even though many will insist that they are, more or less, the word of God. Just too many thing wrong there to even start. Scrolls have been found written at the time of his activities, some written by non believers, historians and then passages of current scripture, which seems odd if they wanted to disclaim his presence or activities. The basis of some of your arguments are not factual but based upon theories, some put together to try to display a different fact. History is a strange thing. We speak of millions of years old as if it were fact. One needs to remember there's a lot of theories and speculations that even come up with much of you acceptations on age and history. " There was nothing written about Jesus until around thirty years after his death. The general historical consensus is that there was a religious teacher of that name who was put to death by the Romans. As for the supernatural myths, obviously there's no greater reason to believe them than to believe similar myths in other religions. | |||
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"Do you really think when Jesus returns he wants to see all the crosses everywhere? Obviously it wasn't a pleasurable experience for him on that cross! Maybe that's why he's not come back yet? "He died in Season 8 by a whisperer sorry  | |||
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"Or maybe it’s a 2000 year old event that left such a mark on humanity that many still follow the teachings from it. I know, I know. It’s not cool to be a Christian these days. But then I’ve never been cool. See that's what I don't understand. Religion is 2000 odd years old but the Earth is 4.54 billion years old? He took his time to appear... " . Religion is far older than 2000 years, it's been with us as long we've been here, every tribe, every place in the world has a version, some of them different, some of them very similar and most of them have a great flood and an end time. | |||
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"When did "like to think of myself as" be replaced with "identify as" Noticed it first with MGBGT 's" "I identify as x" means "I am not really x, but like to pretend I am". A surgeon doesn't identify as a surgeon, they are a surgeon, whilst a "Christian" swinger who is aware that swinging completely contradicts Christianity will say they identify as a Christian. | |||
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"When did "like to think of myself as" be replaced with "identify as" Noticed it first with MGBGT 's" After everything he wrote, that’s the only bit you understand and had a question about? Hahahaha... oh some people haha | |||
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"Interesting discussion - and good to see it discussed openly in an age when there can be a tendency to scream and flee in terror at the very mention of religion! Just to add a couple of thoughts - firstly regarding the fact that religion is often classified as "bad" because it has been used by governments, those in power, etc as a means of controlling population/society. Has this happened? Yes, absolutely without any doubt - and still does in some parts of the world. History is full of examples of "religion" being used to scare, threaten, coerce, etc but I don't believe this should necessarily be used as a reason for berating all religion; it's more an example of human nature using something for its own selfish benefit. It would be like someone beating someone else to death with a fishing rod and then everyone who enjoyed fishing to be vilified because fishing was "bad" (OK, daft example but hopefully makes the point). Just because someone uses (or mis-uses) something for their own personal, selfish, immoral gain does not, in and of itself, mean that the "something" is inherently bad. Secondly, regarding the question that is often raised: "If there really, is a god, why does he allow suffering in the world?". Suffering has many different forms but an awful lot of it, sadly, occurs as a direct result of other people. So in order for one person to not suffer at the hands of another, that other person's free will would have to be tampered with. E.g. if Person A punched Person B in the face, it would be because Person A made the choice to do so and it would generally be accepted that it was a bad thing that caused Person B to suffer. In order for a supernatural god to have prevented this, he would have to have stepped in when Person A was about to throw the punch and stopped him (or her!) from doing so...in other words, Person A's free will would have been taken away. And I think that anyone, religious or otherwise, would have a big issue if their own free will could be taken away at any moment. I fully appreciate there are many different aspects to this, but just thought it was an interesting thing to think about... Just my 2p worth "Two questions 1., how do you explain innocent people being killed by natural disasters like floods and earthquakes. That's down to God's will isn't it? 2. It's a strange system of morality that thinks ensuring Ian Huntley has free will is more important than stopping two girls being murdered. | |||
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"This has been a very tame thread on religion, and for the most part respectful. Not always the case. I’m comfortable in my beliefs. I quietly go about my everyday life and rarely discuss it with anyone. I’ve thought long and hard about what I believe and have come to conclusions I’m happy with. But what is it about religion, specifically Christianity, that makes people so aggressive? The vitriol faced is often quite shocking. I have a theory that those so who are the most vitriolic aren’t as comfortable in their own views as they pretend. I'm respectful of Religion. Just very passionate about the World issues that are so terrible. Why is this happening when God is supposed to be loving? I'm sorry if my comments have offended anyone. No..I appreciate your viewpoint and one that makes me ponder. Certainly not offended (except for the totally unnecessary Six Nations point )."Now that was a Six Nations. Heavenly! | |||
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"heaven and hell are really dependent on the seasons and the fruition of life. there is so much ancient astronomy that testifies to humankind, but as said above, it was/has ben twisted beyond its original intent a good few thousand years ago. " This is entirely inaccurate..... I’m going to assume that this has come from a Dan brown book, opposed to any form of theological study. | |||
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"Interesting discussion - and good to see it discussed openly in an age when there can be a tendency to scream and flee in terror at the very mention of religion! Just to add a couple of thoughts - firstly regarding the fact that religion is often classified as "bad" because it has been used by governments, those in power, etc as a means of controlling population/society. Has this happened? Yes, absolutely without any doubt - and still does in some parts of the world. History is full of examples of "religion" being used to scare, threaten, coerce, etc but I don't believe this should necessarily be used as a reason for berating all religion; it's more an example of human nature using something for its own selfish benefit. It would be like someone beating someone else to death with a fishing rod and then everyone who enjoyed fishing to be vilified because fishing was "bad" (OK, daft example but hopefully makes the point). Just because someone uses (or mis-uses) something for their own personal, selfish, immoral gain does not, in and of itself, mean that the "something" is inherently bad. Secondly, regarding the question that is often raised: "If there really, is a god, why does he allow suffering in the world?". Suffering has many different forms but an awful lot of it, sadly, occurs as a direct result of other people. So in order for one person to not suffer at the hands of another, that other person's free will would have to be tampered with. E.g. if Person A punched Person B in the face, it would be because Person A made the choice to do so and it would generally be accepted that it was a bad thing that caused Person B to suffer. In order for a supernatural god to have prevented this, he would have to have stepped in when Person A was about to throw the punch and stopped him (or her!) from doing so...in other words, Person A's free will would have been taken away. And I think that anyone, religious or otherwise, would have a big issue if their own free will could be taken away at any moment. I fully appreciate there are many different aspects to this, but just thought it was an interesting thing to think about... Just my 2p worth
Two questions
1., how do you explain innocent people being killed by natural disasters like floods and earthquakes. That's down to God's will isn't it?
2. It's a strange system of morality that thinks ensuring Ian Huntley has free will is more important than stopping two girls being murdered. "1. I'm guessing you're assuming that mans free will hasn't played a leading role in natural disasters which I tend believe it to be the case. Is God's will then to interfere with a motion set in place and upset the balance of things? 2. As I said previously, there are things we may not understand as we have quite limited understanding of how the universe functions and works. So much of it is speculation and conjecture. We tend to view things on a single plain. It's amazing how often we see great humanity and good arise out of horrific incidents or events. Arguably some have surpassed the horrors in which they rose from as many events and incidents have a limited start and finish where as what rises from it may span generations. | |||
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"heaven and hell are really dependent on the seasons and the fruition of life. there is so much ancient astronomy that testifies to humankind, but as said above, it was/has ben twisted beyond its original intent a good few thousand years ago. This is entirely inaccurate..... I’m going to assume that this has come from a Dan brown book, opposed to any form of theological study. " Is there a difference? | |||
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"I thought Richard Dawkins summed up things quite well. Although an atheist he acknowledged that this too is a belief as he has no evidence of God either way. As a scientist he can only describe his rational position as being agnostic." . The question was about religion, in particular Christianity, one can easily disprove any religion to an atheist stand point. God (a creator) is something much more difficult and one that requires agnosticism. | |||
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"I thought Richard Dawkins summed up things quite well. Although an atheist he acknowledged that this too is a belief as he has no evidence of God either way. As a scientist he can only describe his rational position as being agnostic.. The question was about religion, in particular Christianity, one can easily disprove any religion to an atheist stand point. God (a creator) is something much more difficult and one that requires agnosticism." I don't think you can separate the two - God and religion - as God is always framed within a belief (or unbelief) system. | |||
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"I thought Richard Dawkins summed up things quite well. Although an atheist he acknowledged that this too is a belief as he has no evidence of God either way. As a scientist he can only describe his rational position as being agnostic.. The question was about religion, in particular Christianity, one can easily disprove any religion to an atheist stand point. God (a creator) is something much more difficult and one that requires agnosticism. I don't think you can separate the two - God and religion - as God is always framed within a belief (or unbelief) system." . No you can, all religions have doctrine, creator beliefs don't. I could claim the creator is AI and that your a creation of a computer simulation. Religion requires you to do something to get something, aka be nice get virgins | |||
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"I thought Richard Dawkins summed up things quite well. Although an atheist he acknowledged that this too is a belief as he has no evidence of God either way. As a scientist he can only describe his rational position as being agnostic." So is he an atheist or an agnostic? | |||
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"When did "like to think of myself as" be replaced with "identify as" Noticed it first with MGBGT 's After everything he wrote, that’s the only bit you understand and had a question about? Hahahaha... oh some people haha" A post about religion. Feel sleepy all of a sudden. Have to prod me to stay awake. | |||
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"When did "like to think of myself as" be replaced with "identify as" Noticed it first with MGBGT 's "I identify as x" means "I am not really x, but like to pretend I am". A surgeon doesn't identify as a surgeon, they are a surgeon, whilst a "Christian" swinger who is aware that swinging completely contradicts Christianity will say they identify as a Christian. " Ah, like the most convenient label. I didn't realise. Thought it was just a new way to state what you consider yourself to be. | |||
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"When did "like to think of myself as" be replaced with "identify as" Noticed it first with MGBGT 's "I identify as x" means "I am not really x, but like to pretend I am". A surgeon doesn't identify as a surgeon, they are a surgeon, whilst a "Christian" swinger who is aware that swinging completely contradicts Christianity will say they identify as a Christian. " | |||
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