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Skinheads BBC4

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I love this documentary, it's on now, just started 22.30.

Love a bit of Ska, some of my favourite tracks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm a skinhead. My mum was one in her youth too. Used to hang around with a delightful bunch of chaps called the Billericay Bastards.

Should point out traditional bean head not the neo nazi type.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'm a skinhead. My mum was one in her youth too. Used to hang around with a delightful bunch of chaps called the Billericay Bastards.

Should point out traditional bean head not the neo nazi type. "

The documentary goes at length to seperate the skinhead moon stompers from the racists.

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

Thanks for the tip off - set to record now from half way through although suspect I'll have to find it on catch up to see the whole thing.

A much misunderstood sub-culture when it comes to the ska/Two Tone scene - although sadly there are a lot of cross overs between the two sides - the music however is what my early musical tastes were founded on, and grew from.

Still go to see Madness, The Beat and even considering seeing The Specials again after their new album unexpectedly blew me away. Sadly many of the originals aren't still around but the underlying scene very much is.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Thanks for the tip off - set to record now from half way through although suspect I'll have to find it on catch up to see the whole thing.

A much misunderstood sub-culture when it comes to the ska/Two Tone scene - although sadly there are a lot of cross overs between the two sides - the music however is what my early musical tastes were founded on, and grew from.

Still go to see Madness, The Beat and even considering seeing The Specials again after their new album unexpectedly blew me away. Sadly many of the originals aren't still around but the underlying scene very much is."

The Specials

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I've not heard their new album.. off to youtube

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I had a ska related injury recently. It's a nicely balanced programme, so far.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I had a ska related injury recently. It's a nicely balanced programme, so far.

"

... oooh do tell lol

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit


"I've not heard their new album.. off to youtube

"

It's best listened to as a whole rather than individual tracks, at least it works better that way for me - don't go expecting Gangsters and Too Much Too Young though - it's probably more akin to their second album than their first - still a blinder though and no. 1 in the album chart

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By *loswingersCouple
over a year ago

Gloucester

Happy times , happy memories !

I went to every Chelsea home game as a skinhead in 1974 , 75 , 76 . In the Shed and as a teenager it was a part of growing up . Loads of fighting , chanting and so on . I didn’t even support them but they were the nearest team to where I lived and I got sucked in .

1977 and saw the Sex Pistols and transitioned from shinhead to punk , stopped going to the football , but still loved the Specials , Madness , Selector , The Beat , and the old Prince Buster stuff . It was great being a teenager at this time . Loved it !

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I had a ska related injury recently. It's a nicely balanced programme, so far.

... oooh do tell lol"

Just madly dancing at a gig recently. Too many people, not enough space.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I've not heard their new album.. off to youtube

It's best listened to as a whole rather than individual tracks, at least it works better that way for me - don't go expecting Gangsters and Too Much Too Young though - it's probably more akin to their second album than their first - still a blinder though and no. 1 in the album chart "

Hmmmm.. a purchase may be in order.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I had a ska related injury recently. It's a nicely balanced programme, so far.

... oooh do tell lol

Just madly dancing at a gig recently. Too many people, not enough space."

Easily done I'm afraid Hope you're all healed now?

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I had a ska related injury recently. It's a nicely balanced programme, so far.

... oooh do tell lol

Just madly dancing at a gig recently. Too many people, not enough space.

Easily done I'm afraid Hope you're all healed now?"

Just a bit of scarring that will fade eventually.

"There's no black in Oi!" Indeed.

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit


"I've not heard their new album.. off to youtube

It's best listened to as a whole rather than individual tracks, at least it works better that way for me - don't go expecting Gangsters and Too Much Too Young though - it's probably more akin to their second album than their first - still a blinder though and no. 1 in the album chart

Hmmmm.. a purchase may be in order. "

You'll thank me for it

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I had a ska related injury recently. It's a nicely balanced programme, so far.

... oooh do tell lol

Just madly dancing at a gig recently. Too many people, not enough space.

Easily done I'm afraid Hope you're all healed now?

Just a bit of scarring that will fade eventually.

"There's no black in Oi!" Indeed.

"

Yup racism part is kicking in now. Oh dear, scarring!? You dance harder than I do

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"I had a ska related injury recently. It's a nicely balanced programme, so far.

... oooh do tell lol

Just madly dancing at a gig recently. Too many people, not enough space.

Easily done I'm afraid Hope you're all healed now?

Just a bit of scarring that will fade eventually.

"There's no black in Oi!" Indeed.

Yup racism part is kicking in now. Oh dear, scarring!? You dance harder than I do "

I wonder how many of those young men giving the Nazi salute are watching now and still proud of that?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I had a ska related injury recently. It's a nicely balanced programme, so far.

... oooh do tell lol

Just madly dancing at a gig recently. Too many people, not enough space.

Easily done I'm afraid Hope you're all healed now?

Just a bit of scarring that will fade eventually.

"There's no black in Oi!" Indeed.

Yup racism part is kicking in now. Oh dear, scarring!? You dance harder than I do

I wonder how many of those young men giving the Nazi salute are watching now and still proud of that?

"

99% most likely

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By *ondonFreakMan
over a year ago

London

I never quite understood the contradictions in the skinhead movement, turns out I`m too young to have remembered the original ones & only started taking notice after they'd been hijacked by a bunch of racist wankers.. Shame that.

Very enlightening (as were the Windrush programs before it)

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit


"I never quite understood the contradictions in the skinhead movement, turns out I`m too young to have remembered the original ones & only started taking notice after they'd been hijacked by a bunch of racist wankers.. Shame that.

Very enlightening (as were the Windrush programs before it) "

I think the contradictions were largely as a result of the various cultures within the culture - you had the ska skinheads who were more closely aligned to Mod than anything, then the Oi! skins who were more aligned to punk, then the out and out boot boys with their links to the terraces and through that the NF etc and threaded between all of that you had various cross-overs so "skinhead" became synonymous with "trouble" - which couldn't be further from the truth for some, but was very much what it was about for others.

Always made me laugh when you saw racist skins who aligned themselves to Two Tone without seeing the contradictions between the two things.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I never quite understood the contradictions in the skinhead movement, turns out I`m too young to have remembered the original ones & only started taking notice after they'd been hijacked by a bunch of racist wankers.. Shame that.

Very enlightening (as were the Windrush programs before it) "

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I wasn't born when it started. Always got confused why 'racist skinheads' loved Jamaican music.

Always been a massive fan of Bob Marley, so for me, moving onto Ska was natural progression of musical tastes. That's when I looked a little deeper and found out there's two types of skinhead.

Sadly, the worst kind a d the latecomers have ruined the name for everyone

Shame such a beautiful movement was stopped dead in its tracks thanks to politics and lazy journalism.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I never quite understood the contradictions in the skinhead movement, turns out I`m too young to have remembered the original ones & only started taking notice after they'd been hijacked by a bunch of racist wankers.. Shame that.

Very enlightening (as were the Windrush programs before it)

I think the contradictions were largely as a result of the various cultures within the culture - you had the ska skinheads who were more closely aligned to Mod than anything, then the Oi! skins who were more aligned to punk, then the out and out boot boys with their links to the terraces and through that the NF etc and threaded between all of that you had various cross-overs so "skinhead" became synonymous with "trouble" - which couldn't be further from the truth for some, but was very much what it was about for others.

Always made me laugh when you saw racist skins who aligned themselves to Two Tone without seeing the contradictions between the two things."

Documentary covers all that You dont need to watch it Gemini

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Happy times , happy memories !

I went to every Chelsea home game as a skinhead in 1974 , 75 , 76 . In the Shed and as a teenager it was a part of growing up . Loads of fighting , chanting and so on . I didn’t even support them but they were the nearest team to where I lived and I got sucked in .

1977 and saw the Sex Pistols and transitioned from shinhead to punk , stopped going to the football , but still loved the Specials , Madness , Selector , The Beat , and the old Prince Buster stuff . It was great being a teenager at this time . Loved it !

"

Sorry I missed your post earlier I'm very, very jealous. I'm not a big fan of large crowds so I avoid gigs and concerts. I imagine all of that was most awesome

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By *ondonFreakMan
over a year ago

London


"I never quite understood the contradictions in the skinhead movement, turns out I`m too young to have remembered the original ones & only started taking notice after they'd been hijacked by a bunch of racist wankers.. Shame that.

Very enlightening (as were the Windrush programs before it)

I think the contradictions were largely as a result of the various cultures within the culture - you had the ska skinheads who were more closely aligned to Mod than anything, then the Oi! skins who were more aligned to punk, then the out and out boot boys with their links to the terraces and through that the NF etc and threaded between all of that you had various cross-overs so "skinhead" became synonymous with "trouble" - which couldn't be further from the truth for some, but was very much what it was about for others.

Always made me laugh when you saw racist skins who aligned themselves to Two Tone without seeing the contradictions between the two things."

Well, I`m in my mid 40`s, so I saw the mainstream 2-Tone groups, saw they were often interracial groups, then also saw skinheads kicking off at football matches, scrawling NF on walls all over the place & saw them attacking anyone who wasn't white, so yeah, it made no sense whatsoever! I gave skinheads a wide berth because of all that negativity that surrounded them.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I never quite understood the contradictions in the skinhead movement, turns out I`m too young to have remembered the original ones & only started taking notice after they'd been hijacked by a bunch of racist wankers.. Shame that.

Very enlightening (as were the Windrush programs before it)

I think the contradictions were largely as a result of the various cultures within the culture - you had the ska skinheads who were more closely aligned to Mod than anything, then the Oi! skins who were more aligned to punk, then the out and out boot boys with their links to the terraces and through that the NF etc and threaded between all of that you had various cross-overs so "skinhead" became synonymous with "trouble" - which couldn't be further from the truth for some, but was very much what it was about for others.

Always made me laugh when you saw racist skins who aligned themselves to Two Tone without seeing the contradictions between the two things.

Well, I`m in my mid 40`s, so I saw the mainstream 2-Tone groups, saw they were often interracial groups, then also saw skinheads kicking off at football matches, scrawling NF on walls all over the place & saw them attacking anyone who wasn't white, so yeah, it made no sense whatsoever! I gave skinheads a wide berth because of all that negativity that surrounded them."

Which is exactly what the NF wanted

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By *ondonFreakMan
over a year ago

London


"I never quite understood the contradictions in the skinhead movement, turns out I`m too young to have remembered the original ones & only started taking notice after they'd been hijacked by a bunch of racist wankers.. Shame that.

Very enlightening (as were the Windrush programs before it)

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I wasn't born when it started. Always got confused why 'racist skinheads' loved Jamaican music.

Always been a massive fan of Bob Marley, so for me, moving onto Ska was natural progression of musical tastes. That's when I looked a little deeper and found out there's two types of skinhead.

Sadly, the worst kind a d the latecomers have ruined the name for everyone

Shame such a beautiful movement was stopped dead in its tracks thanks to politics and lazy journalism."

I usually do enjoy music & social stuff on BBC4, they seem to be on a roll at the moment!

I was always confused as well, this docu has done a good job of explaining the history & how it was hijacked. Seems I was being suede-ist all along, tarring them all with the same brush, & I feel a bit guilty now..

Honestly, I prefer 60`s-90`s reggae & dub to 2-Tone & ska, but if you like reggae, you can't help but like 2-Tone & ska really, it's all an evolution, like house through Jungle (again, you can't help but like the reggae beats & samples in Jungle if you like reggae), into garage etc.

I hear what your saying about the politics & lazy journalism, but the right wing hijacked the whole image so much, they really didn't leave much room for the original skinheads to stop their image being trashed..

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By *imandher84Couple
over a year ago

Leeds


"I never quite understood the contradictions in the skinhead movement, turns out I`m too young to have remembered the original ones & only started taking notice after they'd been hijacked by a bunch of racist wankers.. Shame that.

Very enlightening (as were the Windrush programs before it)

I'm glad you enjoyed it. I wasn't born when it started. Always got confused why 'racist skinheads' loved Jamaican music.

Always been a massive fan of Bob Marley, so for me, moving onto Ska was natural progression of musical tastes. That's when I looked a little deeper and found out there's two types of skinhead.

Sadly, the worst kind a d the latecomers have ruined the name for everyone

Shame such a beautiful movement was stopped dead in its tracks thanks to politics and lazy journalism."

It certainly hasn't stopped in it's tracks and is alive and well, as with any sub culture that falls out of favour with the masses it went underground but if you dig it is still there.

Helped run a punk/oi/ska/psycho pirate site for many years.

The original skin subculture came about in the 60s and was highly influenced by rudeboys of Jamaica

And jamaican immigrants.

The revival in the 80s saw the gap widen between the far left and the far right and the ex punks who found skinhead culture went on essentially to create Oi, which certainly isn't racist music but has more than it's fair share of racists involved so it's a music to get into carefully.

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By *imandher84Couple
over a year ago

Leeds

I would suggest delving into sharp skinheads or the trojans if anyone wants some recommendations.

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

Oh it's very much an "alive" scene - there are countless bands keeping the music alive even today and you only have to go to a gig by any of the "name" Two Tone bands that are still to see evidence that the culture lives on.

I have, in the past, been involved with a charity project (Specialized) which as well as hosting various events releases an album of covers of the major groups/labels associated with the culture - the covers are mainly done by unsigned bands most of them associated with the scene somehow and to date albums of covers of songs by The Specials, The Beat, Madness, The Clash, Bob Marley, The Jam, Trojan have been done - this year being the 40th anniversary they're doing an album of covers from Two Tone - so far they've raised several hundred thousand pounds for Teenage Cancer Trust and other charities - worth checking out to get another take on some of the classics.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I meant more the name.. skinhead. Not the music or scene.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I meant more the name.. skinhead. Not the music or scene."

But you said you like ska in your original post? That's music

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit


"I meant more the name.. skinhead. Not the music or scene."

In terms of the culture, the music and the scene are synonymous with the name though.

Unfortunately the name has been hijacked and come to mean something much darker to many - possibly not helped by some of the fashion associated with the scene or stereotypes reinforced in the media.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I meant more the name.. skinhead. Not the music or scene.

But you said you like ska in your original post? That's music"

I do like ska. I'm just saying the racists have taken the name skinhead and it's a difficult, possibly impossible task to reclaim it back.

I wonder how many forum users avoided this thread simply because of the potential for an argument about racism? Not everyone knows what ska is, let alone the difference between a Skinhead and a Bonehead.

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit


"I meant more the name.. skinhead. Not the music or scene.

But you said you like ska in your original post? That's music

I do like ska. I'm just saying the racists have taken the name skinhead and it's a difficult, possibly impossible task to reclaim it back.

I wonder how many forum users avoided this thread simply because of the potential for an argument about racism? Not everyone knows what ska is, let alone the difference between a Skinhead and a Bonehead. "

Actually I don't think these days it's as synonymous with racism, or even hooliganism, as it was back in the late 70s/early 80s and certainly not to a younger age group who weren't around at the time.

So to an extent it has been claimed back in my opinion, or more to the point the association is not there in the way it once was, and that's not because I have a vague knowledge of the scene, just by dint of the fact that you don't see "skinhead" associated with "racism" in news articles and the like in the way you once would have done.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Boots and braces, don’t make a racist.

There is still a fairly big traditional skinhead movement, in and around London. I know the group that we’re in programme.

Trogan records brought ska to the masses with music from the dance halls of Jamaica. Based on an upbeat reggae sound. At that time there was no youth culture in the uk at the end of the 60’s and young people here wanted to be like the young Jamaicans in their community.

Anyway like all youth cultures in the uk people follow slightly different paths. Unfortunately some follow the wrong path.

Skinhead. a way of life.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Two great comments and I'm glad you're all keeping it alive. Respect

Happy to be wrong in this instance.

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By *imandher84Couple
over a year ago

Leeds

As it goes i have just been doing the dishes to the frightnrs i would really suggest checking them out if you like the original stuff. Very sad story in regards to the leads singers passing just as they were about to break through too.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"As it goes i have just been doing the dishes to the frightnrs i would really suggest checking them out if you like the original stuff. Very sad story in regards to the leads singers passing just as they were about to break through too. "

Will do

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