FabSwingers.com forum: Electric car?

By *ix-foot-two-stu OP Man
over a year ago

Coventry

It will be an electric car or nothing in a couple of decades. And EVs will likely be cheaper (overall) than regular cars way sooner than that.

Have you considered getting one sooner rather than later?

Or have you already got one and if so are you impressed?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not as environmentally friendly as they claim to be and they’re fucking dangerous to pedestrians as they suddenly move with no warning.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Not as environmentally friendly as they claim to be and they’re fucking dangerous to pedestrians as they suddenly move with no warning. "

They're more environmentally friendly than regular cars.

Can't wait til they become the norm.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Mr N nearly got run over by one yesterday. The driver wound his window down and apologised for it being silent. They need to make them noisy, partially sited people like my father will be in danger.

Their environmental credentials are surely dependent on how the electricity that powers them is generated.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

*sighted

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By *ix-foot-two-stu OP Man
over a year ago

Coventry

They are required (by EU law) to make an artificial noise up to 40mph to alert pedestrians. But you can turn the noise off. Certainly shouldn’t where folk are around.

They are absolutely more green than normal cars.

And if green credentials concern you, there are plenty of renewable-only energy suppliers.

A lots have really good safety features, too like autonomous emergency braking.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"They are required (by EU law) to make an artificial noise up to 40mph to alert pedestrians. But you can turn the noise off. Certainly shouldn’t where folk are around.

They are absolutely more green than normal cars.

And if green credentials concern you, there are plenty of renewable-only energy suppliers.

A lots have really good safety features, too like autonomous emergency braking."

This one yesterday wasn't making enough noise to ber heard on a busy street.

Yes, I onow about renewable only suppliers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are any of them any good for long journeys though? How far can you go, and then how long to wait for charging before you can go again?

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By *icolerobbieCouple
over a year ago

walsall

It’s a no from me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What happened to cars being powered by hydrogen? It was on Top Gear years ago all that comes out of the exhaust was water vapour. But for some reason it was dropped.

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By *ed PetalCouple
over a year ago

Kent

We’ve test driven a few and they are so good to drive. Nothing else I have driven has as smooth a drive as an EV. Our fave was the BMW i3, sadly out of our price range. I think they’re a viable option for city living, but not for us right now due to the distances we do. We’re holding on for better batteries. An EV is definitely on our wish list for the future.

We also have solar panels, which would make driving one definitely the eco-friendly option in our case.

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By *andonmessMan
over a year ago

A world all of his own

"What happened to cars being powered by hydrogen? It was on Top Gear years ago all that comes out of the exhaust was water vapour. But for some reason it was dropped."

Because hydrogen can't (currently) be effectively stored for any real length of time. The molecules are to small so they essentially leak through whatever material the tank is made of.

Plus, although it's the most abundant element in the universe, annoyingly it's almost always stuck to other elements, oxygen in the case of water. To unstick it uses more energy than the hydrogen releases, so it's not efficient to do so.

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By *ix-foot-two-stu OP Man
over a year ago

Coventry

The hyundai Kona does 300 miles and charges from 20 to 80% in about 40 minutes.

My hyundai ioniq does 120 miles and charges in 20 minutes.

Since the majority of cars do less than 100 miles a day, it makes sense to get one most suited to the job.

Having said that, relying on the public rapid CCS chargers is a nightmare as they are too often out of service.

The Zappi charger can use only excess energy from your solar panels to charge the car.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What happens to all the people who don't have drives or garages. Air charging for cars? Who's going to pay for all the roads to be ripped up. Bring back horse and carts

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What happens to all the people who don't have drives or garages. Air charging for cars? Who's going to pay for all the roads to be ripped up. Bring back horse and carts

But what about those few people who dont have 5 acres of land to keep the horses on?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Mr N nearly got run over by one yesterday. The driver wound his window down and apologised for it being silent. They need to make them noisy, partially sited people like my father will be in danger.

Their environmental credentials are surely dependent on how the electricity that powers them is generated."

All mass generated electricity is massivly more efficient than an internal combustion engine that doesnt even get 30%

Its more battery production and the scrapping of an existing serviceable car to replace with an ev that makes up the difference.

But electric motors are far more suited to vehicles than combustion engines as they produce peak torque at 0rpm, the point you actually need torque

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What happens to all the people who don't have drives or garages. Air charging for cars? Who's going to pay for all the roads to be ripped up. Bring back horse and carts

Quick swap batteries at fuel stations is the expected route prototypes are already being tested.

Basically you park at the "pump" and a robot arm removes your battery and puts it in a charging dock and fits a fully charged one to yours.

Batteries would be a service contract rather than part of the car

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What gets me with electric cars is this charging up its a scam . Fariday prooved in 18 hundreds anything with a shaf turning in a housing can generate electricity using magnates . So everything on wheels that moovs can re charge itself constantly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It would be no use to me currently - the nearest I can park to my house is about a hundred yards - across two other streets, so no chance of charging from home

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What gets me with electric cars is this charging up its a scam . Fariday prooved in 18 hundreds anything with a shaf turning in a housing can generate electricity using magnates . So everything on wheels that moovs can re charge itself constantly "

Errr thst takes energy

So if your battery turns a motor that is connected to an equally rated generator it wouldn't move and at best just slowly lose power to heat through friction or resistance.

But stalling a motor like that would just burn it out

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By *ix-foot-two-stu OP Man
over a year ago

Coventry

"It would be no use to me currently - the nearest I can park to my house is about a hundred yards - across two other streets, so no chance of charging from home "

That’s pretty much the situation I find myself in. There are schemes running where the council provide charge points on street lamps.

And there are chargers being installed at a lot of venues like health clubs (Bannatynes) and retail outlets (Ikea, Sainsbury, Tesco etc), and almost all motorway services.

There is a charger at Sheffield Technology Centre which is free to use, which I’ve found handy.

Still, coverage isn’t going to be convenient for everyone. It will be, though.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

I used a Nissan leaf as a work car on Gatwick they were awful, they couldn't last a 12 hour shift that is without the heaters being on.

The car had a 100 mile range as well, they are not bad for city driving not long journeys.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Awesome. Perpetual motion?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would be no use to me currently - the nearest I can park to my house is about a hundred yards - across two other streets, so no chance of charging from home

That’s pretty much the situation I find myself in. There are schemes running where the council provide charge points on street lamps.

And there are chargers being installed at a lot of venues like health clubs (Bannatynes) and retail outlets (Ikea, Sainsbury, Tesco etc), and almost all motorway services.

There is a charger at Sheffield Technology Centre which is free to use, which I’ve found handy.

Still, coverage isn’t going to be convenient for everyone. It will be, though."

I am waiting for the injury compensation phone calls "tripped over an extension cable crossing the pavement?"

I don't know if electric cars are the answer, the UK has 70 people per square mile which means we live in high density pretty much everywhere, houses with private drives / garages are going to be a minority of people.

I think we need a different plan, just not sure what that can be.

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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago

Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else

I think you just called Einstein a scam artist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Awesome. Perpetual motion? "

Not yet, But it is now possible to have an LED light that uses so little current that it can shine on a solar panel and keep itself powered. With a little extra current produced for other uses...

Therefore in theory if you have lots of them inside small cubes of solar panels it may make enough surplus to charge a battery.

Which could approximate perpetual motion or at least free energy, one day.

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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago

Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else

I think we need a different plan, just not sure what that can be."

Ridesharing, charging at workplaces instead of at home, plugging in to lampposts / parking meters. Induction charging is also clearly a capability, it "just" needs to be scaled up.

I agree there are details to sort out, and many of them, but there are plenty of ways for a dense population to charge EVs.

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By *harpDressed ManMan
over a year ago

Here occasionally, but mostly somewhere else

"Not yet, But it is now possible to have an LED light that uses so little current that it can shine on a solar panel and keep itself powered. With a little extra current produced for other uses...

Therefore in theory if you have lots of them inside small cubes of solar panels it may make enough surplus to charge a battery.

Which could approximate perpetual motion or at least free energy, one day."

Where's the extra energy coming from? Especially as solar panels aren't 100% efficient when they're made, and degrade over time.

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By *ariemike11Couple
over a year ago

Aberdeenshire

Battery’s and the magnets for the motor are made from rare earth.

Rare earth material is mostly produced in China. Big downside mining and settling lagoons are major polluters poisoning water tables.

Cleaning up here but crapping elsware.

There is always a price to be paid.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Awesome. Perpetual motion?

Not yet, But it is now possible to have an LED light that uses so little current that it can shine on a solar panel and keep itself powered. With a little extra current produced for other uses...

Therefore in theory if you have lots of them inside small cubes of solar panels it may make enough surplus to charge a battery.

Which could approximate perpetual motion or at least free energy, one day."

No its not. An Led powering a solar pannel with 20% efficiency will turn off instantly as its gping to be losing greater than 80% of its out put not even considering resistive loses

Perpetual motion or free energy doesnt exist

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We can’t produce enough electricity to do this plus the battery’s these vehicles use aren’t environmentally friendly hydrogen should be the future

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We can’t produce enough electricity to do this plus the battery’s these vehicles use aren’t environmentally friendly hydrogen should be the future "

Of course we can produce enough electricity to do this. Mass generation of electricity is fairy easy.

How is hydrogen the answer when its less efficient and would require far more electricity to produce and transport than just sending electricity through wires

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By *tace 309TV/TS
over a year ago

durham

"It’s a no from me"
and me

Plus when we all have to drive them you will be paying road tax then not car tax so you won't gain anything. The range of these electric cars is pathetic. These batteries are94%non recycleble

Wait till there's a mountain of these piling up in the future. People moan about the plastic issue. There's a whole new challenge lurking in the distance. If man is as clever as he claims to be why does he keep making things you can't get rid of. Well done

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By *ix-foot-two-stu OP Man
over a year ago

Coventry

Because of economy of scale and improvements in technology, wind farms are now producing electricity at half the cost of the subsidised new hinkley nuclear power station.

Solar, wind and wave could easily produce all the power we need. Was it 2017 or 2018 that we didn’t burn any coal for the first time for extended periods because it was sunny and there are enough solar installations to generate a significant chunk of needed juice?

Electric is the way.

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

I think the future has less to do with the propulsion system than the ownership model. i would foresee that autonomous/ driverless cars will more and more become the norm and that the natural consequence of this will be that there will be less and less of a demand for ownership / that people will start switching to a pay by use model. After all, most cars spend the vast majority of their life parked. If you no longer are physically in control of the vehicle, you start to see it less as an extension of yourself and rather see it as a service much like your utilities. Car clubs are an interesting step in this direction too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We couldnt charge it at home so a big no from us at the moment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No its not. An Led powering a solar pannel with 20% efficiency will turn off instantly as its gping to be losing greater than 80% of its out put not even considering resistive loses

Perpetual motion or free energy doesnt exist"

It is being done, differentials are tiny at the moment, and obviously a start up light source is needed, but once lit the LED doesnt go out, and there is a measurable excess. It may one day be usable.

It is about time we changed from rotation being the only source of energy. Maybe a surplus generating cube makes it time to think inside the box

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By *urls and DressesWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere near here

I would love one and hope my next car will be electric, however the ranges on them are quite low for the mileage I do. Hoping technology and battery life will get better rapidly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

untill someone can invent a battery that lasts longer than say a 1000 miles between charges its a no from me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No its not. An Led powering a solar pannel with 20% efficiency will turn off instantly as its gping to be losing greater than 80% of its out put not even considering resistive loses

Perpetual motion or free energy doesnt exist

It is about time we changed from rotation being the only source of energy. Maybe a surplus generating cube makes it time to think inside the box

No its not been done. For it to work it would require an LED with more than 100% efficiency at turning electricity to light with no loses, no heat produced.

Then it would require a solar panel with 100% efficency with no losses turning every photon to electricity

.then it would require wires with no resistance losing nothing to heat.

Closest of those 3 things we can do is super conductors for the wires but they require a massive ampunt of energy input for thier cryogenic cooling.

Energy csnnot be created or destroyed merely transformed for your device to produce excess energy it would have to be converting matter into energy directly which would be extraordinary and kill it as a tech as it would be a portable nuclear weapon

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"untill someone can invent a battery that lasts longer than say a 1000 miles between charges its a no from me.

Does your petrol tank last longer than 1000 miles?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can't see an electric 4wd Hilux pickup working.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I can't see an electric 4wd Hilux pickup working.

Why not?

An adequately sized electric motor could produce way more torque than youd ever get out of a combustion engine in one the low range for off roading would be immense

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I can't see an electric 4wd Hilux pickup working.

Why not?

An adequately sized electric motor could produce way more torque than youd ever get out of a combustion engine in one the low range for off roading would be immense

Just something i feel. Besides the energy consumption of an electric vehicle depends on it's weight, values are always given for an empty vehicle over level terrain. I know i can get over 400 miles out of a tank regardless of what i'm carrying, how i'm driving or the terrain i'm crossing.

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By *ix-foot-two-stu OP Man
over a year ago

Coventry

"Just something i feel."

I feel like having sex on my Birthday on Saturday, but it ain’t going to happen.

There are vast trucks which move boulders from the top of a quarry to the bottom. They regenerate so much energy driving down that they have enough to feed power in to the grid before driving back up.

It’s possible to produce an electric version of your truck.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just something i feel.

I feel like having sex on my Birthday on Saturday, but it ain’t going to happen.

It’s possible to produce an electric version of your truck."

Perhaps. Interestingly i've been advised to keep my old truck on the road for as long as possible by my garage rather than buy a newer more efficient one.

Also, if you believe as i do, that the environmental cost of building a new car and scrapping an old one far outstrips the saving made by a new vehicle it doesn't make sense.

Also there's the environmental cost of mining the materials needed to make batteries, of which i'm led to believe are an insufficient resource, the manufacture of new and disposal of old batteries which are themselves extremely toxic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"untill someone can invent a battery that lasts longer than say a 1000 miles between charges its a no from me.

Does your petrol tank last longer than 1000 miles?

no it dont but then i dont have to wait hrs to char

ge it up either"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I can't see an electric 4wd Hilux pickup working.

Why not?

An adequately sized electric motor could produce way more torque than youd ever get out of a combustion engine in one the low range for off roading would be immense

Yeah for ling distance off roading its going to take some time.

Theres an interesting area in hybrids in this regard though.

Engines work best if they are designed to run at one specific speed and load not the varying loads we put them under

Generators the same they csn be designed to work very efficiently with a fixed input.

Electric motors work far better over a range than a combustion engine.

So we will likley be seeing a combustion engine paired to a generator that provides the power to run the kotors that provides thw drive (not nessercirly piston, theres some wave type ones that would be useless for a range like a car but ideal for a generator)

Torque characteristics of electric motors with the fuel ease of combustion engine.

Its already common on ships etc the main drawback for using them in cars is the most efficient engine for a generator is a jet turbine but very hot exhaust and very loud operation mean they arent comming to the street any time soon. Not an issue on a ship where you can have massive heat exchangers and turbines to recover that wasted heat and noise

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"untill someone can invent a battery that lasts longer than say a 1000 miles between charges its a no from me.

Does your petrol tank last longer than 1000 miles?

no it dont but then i dont have to wait hrs to char

ge it up either"

hot swap batteries are likley to be the stop gap for that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"untill someone can invent a battery that lasts longer than say a 1000 miles between charges its a no from me.

Does your petrol tank last longer than 1000 miles?

no it dont but then i dont have to wait hrs to char

ge it up either

hot swap batteries are likley to be the stop gap for that"

Two sets of batteries for every vehicle on the road? I thought this was supposed to be environmentally friendly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"untill someone can invent a battery that lasts longer than say a 1000 miles between charges its a no from me.

Does your petrol tank last longer than 1000 miles?

no it dont but then i dont have to wait hrs to char

ge it up either

hot swap batteries are likley to be the stop gap for that

Two sets of batteries for every vehicle on the road? I thought this was supposed to be environmentally friendly.

Well no you'd nees far less than 2 sets per car, as not every car would be swapping battery at exactly the same time. And it doesnt have to be the main one it can be a supplemental one.

But youd save mountains of co2 and waste simply by removing the need to refine petrol.

Personally as a biker i cant wait for electric to take over so i dont have to play "dodge the oil and diesel" every day rather than the environmental concerns.

But lithium batteries can be recycled they arent currently as its not in demand just like lead acid ones didnt used to be recycled but not they are at something like 98% in developed countries (and we produce hundreds of thousands of tonnes of them a year as waste)

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By *orwegian BlueMan
over a year ago

Iceland, but Aldi is closer..

"They are required (by EU law) to make an artificial noise up to 40mph to alert pedestrians. But you can turn the noise off. Certainly shouldn’t where folk are around.

They are absolutely more green than normal cars.

And if green credentials concern you, there are plenty of renewable-only energy suppliers.

A lots have really good safety features, too like autonomous emergency braking.

This one yesterday wasn't making enough noise to ber heard on a busy street.

Yes, I onow about renewable only suppliers. "

There are plenty of petrol cars that are almost totally silent when pulling away gently and wouldn't be heard over the general noise of a street.

Once it is the norm to have an electric car, people will become used to them..

For pedestrians there is the green cross code, stop, look and listen.. for those with hearing problems, its a case of stop, look and look again.. for the blind, unfortunately I fear a more Darwinian approach may be the case..

New cars do come with a plethora of safety features and it may be the case that 360' automatic pedestrian monitoring is fitted to all cars by law, the technology already exists and is relatively cheap in comparison to some safety features we take for granted.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"untill someone can invent a battery that lasts longer than say a 1000 miles between charges its a no from me.

Does your petrol tank last longer than 1000 miles?

no it dont but then i dont have to wait hrs to char

ge it up either

hot swap batteries are likley to be the stop gap for that

Two sets of batteries for every vehicle on the road? I thought this was supposed to be environmentally friendly.

Well no you'd nees far less than 2 sets per car, as not every car would be swapping battery at exactly the same time. And it doesnt have to be the main one it can be a supplemental one.

But youd save mountains of co2 and waste simply by removing the need to refine petrol.

Personally as a biker i cant wait for electric to take over so i dont have to play "dodge the oil and diesel" every day rather than the environmental concerns.

I'm afraid i'm not buying the argument. From a personal perspective it all seems so hugely impractical.

I agree that something needs to be done but for anything beyond a city commute i can't see it working. There are too many issues that haven't been addressed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"untill someone can invent a battery that lasts longer than say a 1000 miles between charges its a no from me.

Does your petrol tank last longer than 1000 miles?

no it dont but then i dont have to wait hrs to char

ge it up either

hot swap batteries are likley to be the stop gap for that

Two sets of batteries for every vehicle on the road? I thought this was supposed to be environmentally friendly.

Well no you'd nees far less than 2 sets per car, as not every car would be swapping battery at exactly the same time. And it doesnt have to be the main one it can be a supplemental one.

But youd save mountains of co2 and waste simply by removing the need to refine petrol.

Personally as a biker i cant wait for electric to take over so i dont have to play "dodge the oil and diesel" every day rather than the environmental concerns.

I'm afraid i'm not buying the argument. From a personal perspective it all seems so hugely impractical.

I agree that something needs to be done but for anything beyond a city commute i can't see it working. There are too many issues that haven't been addressed."

More impractical than diging ancient compressed algee out from under the ground or sea, negotiating with some of the worlds most oppressive regimes to do so.

Loading it up on to tankers and into pipelines to ship it tens of thousands of kilometers to then expend vast amounts of energy boiling distilling and fractioning it before adding detergents and other aditives.

Loading it on to lorries and shipping it 24/7 across whole countries to tiny distribution centers?

The practicalities and logistics of battaries are a cake walk in comparison to fuels the issue is simply energy density.

As tjat increases to parity fuel becomes an expensive luxuary for us petrol heads.

The hot swap stations tested so far are just automated park pay and drive off.

The other option is hondas one theyre about the size of a cooler box with a handle.

Park open bonnet lift it out and swap it close bonnet and drive off.