FabSwingers.com forum: Have class rooms to many pupils nowadays?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

We had an interesting discussion about it yesterday that class rooms nowadays have to many people in them, few had 30 peeps, does it make a good learning environment? I dont think it does as they dont learn as much as supposed being a smaller class, are here any teachers too that have experienced this?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/01/19 09:35:01]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They probably can't get enough teachers to make classes smaller. I don't know anyone who would want to be a teacher. Thankless job.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes on the whole they are too big.

If you have a class with more than 32 children you were meant to have two teachers. Staffing is definitely an issue and also the fact that a lot of schools have had to reduce the amount of teaching assistants this has a massive impact. In my personal opinion the optimal class size would be between 20 and 25. There are plenty of people still training to be teachers it's the retention of said teachers that's the problem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Been saying this since i was a boy nawt will change

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They probably can't get enough teachers to make classes smaller. I don't know anyone who would want to be a teacher. Thankless job.

It's more that even if the teachers were available there isn't the funding to employ more teachers in a lot of cases. Plus space is an issue, you can't just magic up another classroom even if you can get the teachers.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

When I was in primary school in the sixties we regularly had classes of 45. One teacher, no classroom assistant.

There were fewer pupils per class in the first two years of my secondary education around thirty I think then when we went on to O and A levels it was even smaller groups.

There were bad points. We didn't get individual attention, I remember being very frustrated that I couldn't change books until I'd read to the teacher and my turn was a long way off. Teaching methods were very different though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They probably can't get enough teachers to make classes smaller. I don't know anyone who would want to be a teacher. Thankless job.

If anyone sees teaching as a thankless job they aren't suited for it.

I'm not a teacher but love educating my children.

After they have grown up, I would definitely consider teaching.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When I was in primary school in the sixties we regularly had classes of 45. One teacher, no classroom assistant.

There were fewer pupils per class in the first two years of my secondary education around thirty I think then when we went on to O and A levels it was even smaller groups.

I member having large classes when I was at school.

The biggest issue now is that often you have a class of 30 children, but you often have children with additional needs, children with English as a second language and children with social and economic disadvantage all in the same class. It is very challenging when we have "a one cap fits all" education system.

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By *issvvCouple
over a year ago

pontyclun

We've purposely put our child in a smaller school for this reason. I don't see how a teacher can manage to get the most out of 30 + children at a time and if they're struggling, it's going to be daunting to ask for help with so many others around.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They probably can't get enough teachers to make classes smaller. I don't know anyone who would want to be a teacher. Thankless job.

If anyone sees teaching as a thankless job they aren't suited for it.

I'm not a teacher but love educating my children.

After they have grown up, I would definitely consider teaching.

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"When I was in primary school in the sixties we regularly had classes of 45. One teacher, no classroom assistant.

There were fewer pupils per class in the first two years of my secondary education around thirty I think then when we went on to O and A levels it was even smaller groups.

I member having large classes when I was at school.

Our primary school had streaming so we were divided roughly by academic ability. We lived in a small Sussex town and so no language problems but social and economic disadvantage was a big factor. I don't think we received a better or worse education when it came to the three Rs but I do think culturally and socially you missed out unless your family realised that education happened outside of school too.

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By *uxom redCouple
over a year ago

Shrewsbury

"They probably can't get enough teachers to make classes smaller. I don't know anyone who would want to be a teacher. Thankless job.

If anyone sees teaching as a thankless job they aren't suited for it.

I'm not a teacher but love educating my children.

After they have grown up, I would definitely consider teaching.

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low. "

I never saw teaching as a thankless job.

I saw the potential in all my students and helped them grow into the people they have become.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They probably can't get enough teachers to make classes smaller. I don't know anyone who would want to be a teacher. Thankless job.

If anyone sees teaching as a thankless job they aren't suited for it.

I'm not a teacher but love educating my children.

After they have grown up, I would definitely consider teaching.

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

I never saw teaching as a thankless job.

I saw the potential in all my students and helped them grow into the people they have become.

I couldn't agree more. The issue is that its becoming increasingly difficult. The targets and curriculum change on such a regular basis its very hard to keep up. We are expected to more with less!

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By *uxom redCouple
over a year ago

Shrewsbury

"They probably can't get enough teachers to make classes smaller. I don't know anyone who would want to be a teacher. Thankless job.

If anyone sees teaching as a thankless job they aren't suited for it.

I'm not a teacher but love educating my children.

After they have grown up, I would definitely consider teaching.

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

I never saw teaching as a thankless job.

I saw the potential in all my students and helped them grow into the people they have become.

I couldn't agree more. The issue is that its becoming increasingly difficult. The targets and curriculum change on such a regular basis its very hard to keep up. We are expected to more with less! "

Exactly, that's one of the reasons I no longer teach.

We don't get the insensitives or support to want to keep teaching.

Don't get me started on the pressures involved.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They probably can't get enough teachers to make classes smaller. I don't know anyone who would want to be a teacher. Thankless job.

If anyone sees teaching as a thankless job they aren't suited for it.

I'm not a teacher but love educating my children.

After they have grown up, I would definitely consider teaching.

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

I never saw teaching as a thankless job.

I saw the potential in all my students and helped them grow into the people they have become.

I couldn't agree more. The issue is that its becoming increasingly difficult. The targets and curriculum change on such a regular basis its very hard to keep up. We are expected to more with less!

Exactly, that's one of the reasons I no longer teach.

We don't get the insensitives or support to want to keep teaching.

Don't get me started on the pressures involved. "

That's the point I was trying to make. (admittedly badly)

When I said it was a thankless task I didn't mean by the children and "most" parents/guardians, I meant by the system in general.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low. "

The holidays are good, the salary isn't bad. More money is being invested in schools. If you compare public school funding to grammar schools- you wonder what the public schools are doing with it.

I know quite a few teachers and they rarely have a bad thing to say about their jobs other then the extra hours of marking and setting out the criteria for the term.

Our classes have about 30 children in and there is no room for expansion. They have quite a few teacher assistants to help per a class and most children are split into tables with differing work levels.

On the whole teachers do a great job.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Smaller class sizes are better, allowing greater pupil support. Many of the government went to private educational systems with their class sizes being much smaller, so they don't have experience of how it is in state funded schools

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

The holidays are good, the salary isn't bad. More money is being invested in schools. If you compare public school funding to grammar schools- you wonder what the public schools are doing with it.

I know quite a few teachers and they rarely have a bad thing to say about their jobs other then the extra hours of marking and setting out the criteria for the term.

On the whole teachers do a great job.

Do it for a year then come back to me!

If you think funding is increasing you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

We went from 18 teaching assistants and 8 one to one's to 6 teaching assistants and 5 one to ones in 2 years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’ve found it depends on the schools location. When I worked in city schools I had up to 31 pupils per class for most of my classes. However in a town school, the most I’ve had in my class is 25 and most tend to be less than that.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

well when i was at school there was at least 30 in a class to one teacher and it was left up to us in the higher forms to teach those that where in the remedial class (as it was called in those days)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

The holidays are good, the salary isn't bad. More money is being invested in schools. If you compare public school funding to grammar schools- you wonder what the public schools are doing with it.

I know quite a few teachers and they rarely have a bad thing to say about their jobs other then the extra hours of marking and setting out the criteria for the term.

On the whole teachers do a great job.

Do it for a year then come back to me!

If you think funding is increasing you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

We went from 18 teaching assistants and 8 one to one's to 6 teaching assistants and 5 one to ones in 2 years. "

Our school could just afford textbooks this year. We’ve never had to stretch a budget so much. Where is this funding increase you speak of?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

The holidays are good, the salary isn't bad. More money is being invested in schools. If you compare public school funding to grammar schools- you wonder what the public schools are doing with it.

I know quite a few teachers and they rarely have a bad thing to say about their jobs other then the extra hours of marking and setting out the criteria for the term.

On the whole teachers do a great job.

Do it for a year then come back to me!

If you think funding is increasing you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

We went from 18 teaching assistants and 8 one to one's to 6 teaching assistants and 5 one to ones in 2 years.

Our school could just afford textbooks this year. We’ve never had to stretch a budget so much. Where is this funding increase you speak of? "

Absolutely! We are increasingly doing more with a lot less.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They probably can't get enough teachers to make classes smaller. I don't know anyone who would want to be a teacher. Thankless job.

If anyone sees teaching as a thankless job they aren't suited for it.

I'm not a teacher but love educating my children.

After they have grown up, I would definitely consider teaching.

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

I never saw teaching as a thankless job.

I saw the potential in all my students and helped them grow into the people they have become.

I couldn't agree more. The issue is that its becoming increasingly difficult. The targets and curriculum change on such a regular basis its very hard to keep up. We are expected to more with less!

Exactly, that's one of the reasons I no longer teach.

We don't get the insensitives or support to want to keep teaching.

Don't get me started on the pressures involved.

That's the point I was trying to make. (admittedly badly)

When I said it was a thankless task I didn't mean by the children and "most" parents/guardians, I meant by the system in general. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well all the children have been given new iPads, they have touch screen whiteboards, lots of new approvements to the playgrounds.

The PTFA certainly haven't funded it.

I remember the days of the excitement of seeing the projector with the dodgy wheel coming out or sharing worn out text books between two... School has definitely got better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well all the children have been given new iPads, they have touch screen whiteboards, lots of new approvements to the playgrounds.

The PTFA certainly haven't funded it.

I remember the days of the excitement of seeing the projector with the dodgy wheel coming out or sharing worn out text books between two... School has definitely got better. "

Some schools maybe, not all. I know teachers who are having to buy stationary from their own money because the schools are not getting equal funding or support.

Honestly have no idea how teachers do it, especially secondary school. The lack of respect from Kids and parents is insane. Not all kids and parents I will add though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It depends on the year group and what SEN children are in the class. 3-6 years should be swimming with support staff! However I know that 6years + do have ability classes of which are obviously smaller for maths and English. I do agree though 30 should be the limit as it takes less stress and work load from each teacher. Also the key to good flowing learning is consistent support staff. This isn't always the case from 6+.

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By *ink Panther.Woman
over a year ago

Preston

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

The holidays are good, the salary isn't bad. More money is being invested in schools. If you compare public school funding to grammar schools- you wonder what the public schools are doing with it.

I know quite a few teachers and they rarely have a bad thing to say about their jobs other then the extra hours of marking and setting out the criteria for the term.

On the whole teachers do a great job.

Could you just clarify your point on funding of public schools and grammar school? I’m not sure I’m grasping what you mean, sorry x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They probably can't get enough teachers to make classes smaller. I don't know anyone who would want to be a teacher. Thankless job.

If anyone sees teaching as a thankless job they aren't suited for it.

I'm not a teacher but love educating my children.

After they have grown up, I would definitely consider teaching.

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

I never saw teaching as a thankless job.

I saw the potential in all my students and helped them grow into the people they have become.

I couldn't agree more. The issue is that its becoming increasingly difficult. The targets and curriculum change on such a regular basis its very hard to keep up. We are expected to more with less! "

Sadly some parents not all hinder their childs progress not all are supportive or even care about their child. Schools are now expected to do the work of teacher, social care and everything else in between. The main responsibility should always be down to parents to start educating their children before they get to school. Some arrive not toilet trained for goodness sake then expect staff to do that as well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They probably can't get enough teachers to make classes smaller. I don't know anyone who would want to be a teacher. Thankless job.

If anyone sees teaching as a thankless job they aren't suited for it.

I'm not a teacher but love educating my children.

After they have grown up, I would definitely consider teaching.

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

I never saw teaching as a thankless job.

I saw the potential in all my students and helped them grow into the people they have become.

I couldn't agree more. The issue is that its becoming increasingly difficult. The targets and curriculum change on such a regular basis its very hard to keep up. We are expected to more with less!

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By *estless nativeMan
over a year ago

near Glasgow

Back when I was at school average class sizes were bigger than they today (at least here in Glasgow anyway)

Teachers still managed to teach us the difference between to, too and two though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They probably can't get enough teachers to make classes smaller. I don't know anyone who would want to be a teacher. Thankless job.

If anyone sees teaching as a thankless job they aren't suited for it.

I'm not a teacher but love educating my children.

After they have grown up, I would definitely consider teaching.

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

I never saw teaching as a thankless job.

I saw the potential in all my students and helped them grow into the people they have become.

I couldn't agree more. The issue is that its becoming increasingly difficult. The targets and curriculum change on such a regular basis its very hard to keep up. We are expected to more with less!

As I have said I know teachers hut am not one myself. But very much this!

Teachers are expected to play so many roles for the greatly underpaid wage of just one. Unfortunately for some parents their own circumstances have changed (and some just done care) so may not have as much time with their own kids as they may like to actually teach them some things. In situations that are beyond "well don't have kids then"

But still very much agree with you.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

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By *iss.RedWoman
over a year ago

somewhere

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

The holidays are good, the salary isn't bad. More money is being invested in schools. If you compare public school funding to grammar schools- you wonder what the public schools are doing with it.

I know quite a few teachers and they rarely have a bad thing to say about their jobs other then the extra hours of marking and setting out the criteria for the term.

On the whole teachers do a great job.

You wonder what the public schools are doing with?! Funding has been cut massively. Schools are struggling to provide the basics such as resources, teachers, teaching assistants and are often forced to fund raise themselves!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They probably can't get enough teachers to make classes smaller. I don't know anyone who would want to be a teacher. Thankless job.

If anyone sees teaching as a thankless job they aren't suited for it.

I'm not a teacher but love educating my children.

After they have grown up, I would definitely consider teaching.

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

I never saw teaching as a thankless job.

I saw the potential in all my students and helped them grow into the people they have become.

I couldn't agree more. The issue is that its becoming increasingly difficult. The targets and curriculum change on such a regular basis its very hard to keep up. We are expected to more with less!

Class sizes are the least of their worries.

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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

The holidays are good, the salary isn't bad. More money is being invested in schools. If you compare public school funding to grammar schools- you wonder what the public schools are doing with it.

I know quite a few teachers and they rarely have a bad thing to say about their jobs other then the extra hours of marking and setting out the criteria for the term.

On the whole teachers do a great job.

That’s laughable isn’t it?

Of course the political spin is that they receive more funds than ever before. It in real terms with rising costs and additional expectations on schools, we know that funding is reduced in real terms.

There is a curriculum to meet therefore funds are allocated to meet those areas. If your child’s school has some investment in IT it’s because there is a curriculum need.

The only way to stop the ever increasing pressure is to stop education from being a political football (all public services for that matter). They should be managed independently otherwise you end up as we are now, each new Government with a new agenda and some wally of a politician (like Gove for instance) changing many aspects of education right before he moves on to a new toy, leaving schools to manage the change with no extra funding to do so ... except for PE... hence new sports coaches, playground activity equipment etc. You can’t have a four year plan for education. You can’t constantly expect to keep up with the changes and you can’t keep apply pressure ... yet they do.

And parents need to parent. Every corner of society seem to want teachers to solve the problems in society. Children are in school 190 days a year. Parent need to parent.

People are so naive at times about what happens in schools. It’s a minefield of jumping through hoops, changing directives and ridiculousness. That’s my moan for the week

and no I’m not a teacher but you don’t need to be to know this stuff.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

The holidays are good, the salary isn't bad. More money is being invested in schools. If you compare public school funding to grammar schools- you wonder what the public schools are doing with it.

I know quite a few teachers and they rarely have a bad thing to say about their jobs other then the extra hours of marking and setting out the criteria for the term.

On the whole teachers do a great job.

That’s laughable isn’t it?

There is a curriculum to meet therefore funds are allocated to meet those areas. If your child’s school has some investment in IT it’s because there is a curriculum need.

And parents need to parent. Every corner of society seem to want teachers to solve the problems in society. Children are in school 190 days a year. Parent need to parent.

People are so naive at times about what happens in schools. It’s a minefield of jumping through hoops, changing directives and ridiculousness. That’s my moan for the week

and no I’m not a teacher but you don’t need to be to know this stuff. "

Exactly this!!!!

and it's very demoralizing when people always say "but you get good holidays and the pay isn't bad"

It's not but it's not an easy job and the retention of teachers is it an all time low so obviously there is something wrong with the system.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They probably can't get enough teachers to make classes smaller. I don't know anyone who would want to be a teacher. Thankless job.

If anyone sees teaching as a thankless job they aren't suited for it.

I'm not a teacher but love educating my children.

After they have grown up, I would definitely consider teaching.

It is a thankless job!

Doesn't mean teaches that see it that way are in the wrong job. Education of children is an amazing job, but its not easy and moral is at an all time low.

I never saw teaching as a thankless job.

I saw the potential in all my students and helped them grow into the people they have become.

I couldn't agree more. The issue is that its becoming increasingly difficult. The targets and curriculum change on such a regular basis its very hard to keep up. We are expected to more with less!

Class sizes are the least of their worries. "

In one week i have had to deal with the following students in crisis. Drug taking, parent an alcoholic, a child whose parent is abusive, does not want them but refuses to sign them over to foster care and a student whose parent died. This in addition to regular duties and normal every day stuff..the stress towards the end of every term is unbelievable...but i think the world of my students and will be there for them no matter the personal cost to myself. Staff go into education because they care....

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

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