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Should the NHS pay for transgender hair removal surgery?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

It seemed a rather apt news story

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6554031/Transgender-woman-shave-twice-day-says-NHS-mucking-peoples-lives.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well of course! It appears that not paying for trans gender anything is being not only anti trans but also showing a total lack of intelligence and understanding!

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By *ustafasinghMan
over a year ago

leicester

Personally I’d say no. The NHS is continuously looking for more money in terms it needs it desperately, and adding another thing for them to have to fund. I am just at a no.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Do the nhs treat cis women who would like hair removal procedures?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Do the nhs treat cis women who would like hair removal procedures?"

I wouldn't mind a freebie back, sack and crack

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To be fair the NHS only actually funds 8 hours of hair removal. The average person (mtf) will require about 300 hours, so not exactly a big old prize they're giving away. In any case I was lucky enough to fund everything privately, but I guess it's a big help to the cash strapped

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington


"It seemed a rather apt news story

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6554031/Transgender-woman-shave-twice-day-says-NHS-mucking-peoples-lives.html "

I pity anyone who gets their news from the daily mail

WPATH - the world experts on the standards of care for trans people (I know bloody experts getting medical degrees and knowing facts why should we listen to them) recommend laser treatment for trans women/femme ppl with gender dysphoria. The NHS provide 6 to 8 sessions which is barely enough for most people

Here is a radical thought. Why not ask should we pay enough tax so that the NHS is fully funded. If we decide to ration one group, be very careful, because someone you care about will be having their treatment rationed next

Ms Icebreaker

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By *notherGirlTV/TS
over a year ago

Somewhere


"

Here is a radical thought. Why not ask should we pay enough tax so that the NHS is fully funded. If we decide to ration one group, be very careful, because someone you care about will be having their treatment rationed next

Ms Icebreaker "

I concur. x

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By *radleywigginsMan
over a year ago

northwest

And if you change your mind and want it back...?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Here is a radical thought. Why not ask should we pay enough tax so that the NHS is fully funded. If we decide to ration one group, be very careful, because someone you care about will be having their treatment rationed next

Ms Icebreaker

I concur. x

"

I believe every time in living memory a government has promised to raise taxes they have lost an election? It’s the kiss of death in political circles, the money needs to come from somewhere, and please don’t use the ‘sort out the leaks’ argument

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

If the NHS are funding the transition. Then yes.

I should imagine it’s quite an important part to be honest.

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By *ay rickMan
over a year ago

cardiff

The average working person pays more than enough for all services in ni and tax...prices pushed up and services cut by a country that allows it to happen..just look at the insanity of fuel prices and public transport for a few!!....doctors app--can't get 1--dentist--same--I think everyone deserves care op and as pointed out by some it only offers very min of help on removal so if needed then yes!!!...we live in a messed up country that's been this way for many many years can't see a change coming soon either sadly

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By *notherGirlTV/TS
over a year ago

Somewhere


"I believe every time in living memory a government has promised to raise taxes they have lost an election? It’s the kiss of death in political circles, the money needs to come from somewhere, and please don’t use the ‘sort out the leaks’ argument "

Priorities eh.

People are less important than political power, and we are a nation riddled with selfishness. Such a wonderful view.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do the nhs treat cis women who would like hair removal procedures?"

My local nhs doesn't, I don't know if it's a postcode lottery or not. But I have PCOS and have need for this and yet I can't get it.

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By *inkerbell67Woman
over a year ago

Clacton on sea essex

No sorry NHS is for sick people not for people who decide they want to be somebody else

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I believe every time in living memory a government has promised to raise taxes they have lost an election? It’s the kiss of death in political circles, the money needs to come from somewhere, and please don’t use the ‘sort out the leaks’ argument

Priorities eh.

People are less important than political power, and we are a nation riddled with selfishness. Such a wonderful view.

"

Lol, u disagree? Surely that’s a tad naive in today’s world?

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By *ELLONS AND CREAMWoman
over a year ago

stourbridge area

No definitely not ... I dont get funding to get my legs waxed I pay .... so why should they .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Do the nhs treat cis women who would like hair removal procedures?

My local nhs doesn't, I don't know if it's a postcode lottery or not. But I have PCOS and have need for this and yet I can't get it. "

me too!

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By *orning candyCouple
over a year ago

Nairn

Yup this, I have PCOS and have asked a few times and been told 'well it's not something that affects the quality of my life so no' NHS will not help me either.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yup this, I have PCOS and have asked a few times and been told 'well it's not something that affects the quality of my life so no' NHS will not help me either."

Even though it’s one of the biggest impacts on our lives, and self esteem

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yup this, I have PCOS and have asked a few times and been told 'well it's not something that affects the quality of my life so no' NHS will not help me either.

Even though it’s one of the biggest impacts on our lives, and self esteem "

I can understand being denied for areas covered by clothing but not for the face.

So if the NHS pay for trans people to have this done, so they can be the person they are meant to be, then you could argue that pcos (wrong gender hormones) SHOULD also qualify!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yup this, I have PCOS and have asked a few times and been told 'well it's not something that affects the quality of my life so no' NHS will not help me either.

Even though it’s one of the biggest impacts on our lives, and self esteem

I can understand being denied for areas covered by clothing but not for the face.

So if the NHS pay for trans people to have this done, so they can be the person they are meant to be, then you could argue that pcos (wrong gender hormones) SHOULD also qualify! "

I really couldn’t agree more

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By *orwegian BlueMan
over a year ago

Iceland, but Aldi is closer..

I am absolutely speechless..

There are people with actual life threatening and terminal illnesses that can actually be cured but do not get the life saving treatment because the NHS is too cash strapped to be able to afford the treatment...

Paying for transgender operations and hair removal is not life threatening if not done, in any way, shape or form..

I am sure for those that want to recognise as an alternative gender, there are physiological and psychological hurdles they have to overcome and I would be lying if I said I understood any of them but in comparison to the person that is physically ill and cannot get treatment, consider their suffering and the suffering of friends and family..

What if it was your son or daughter, wife, husband, parent, best friend... how would you feel knowing they will die because they cannot get life saving treatment but someone is having their chin hair removed to make them look more feminine?

Now multiply out the number of 8 hour unnecessary treatments the NHS actually hands out to save from upsetting people and avoid being accused of discrimination, all of the unnecessary consultants time, surgery time, admin time and other staff time involved in the treatment right down to the cleaners and its not just a couple of hundred pounds, its running into millions of pounds wasted on cosmetic surgery.

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By *notherGirlTV/TS
over a year ago

Somewhere


"Lol, u disagree? Surely that’s a tad naive in today’s world? "

Not at all.

The world won’t change if we all continue with that view.

It’s not government that needs to change really, it’s the cultural norms we accept as is.

That is what shapes government.

So anyway, it’s not free hairdressing appointments, it’s something deemed by professionals as beneficial to some few people and it’s a Daily Mail “outrage”

Drop in the ocean against diabetes, alcohol and smoking. People do like a furore. But they don’t want to pay more.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

I have an endocrine disorder which causes unwanted hair growth and to my knowledge I dint get any hair removal sessions paid for.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"Do the nhs treat cis women who would like hair removal procedures?

My local nhs doesn't, I don't know if it's a postcode lottery or not. But I have PCOS and have need for this and yet I can't get it. "

Same x

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"I am absolutely speechless..

There are people with actual life threatening and terminal illnesses that can actually be cured but do not get the life saving treatment because the NHS is too cash strapped to be able to afford the treatment...

Paying for transgender operations and hair removal is not life threatening if not done, in any way, shape or form..

I am sure for those that want to recognise as an alternative gender, there are physiological and psychological hurdles they have to overcome and I would be lying if I said I understood any of them but in comparison to the person that is physically ill and cannot get treatment, consider their suffering and the suffering of friends and family..

What if it was your son or daughter, wife, husband, parent, best friend... how would you feel knowing they will die because they cannot get life saving treatment but someone is having their chin hair removed to make them look more feminine?

Now multiply out the number of 8 hour unnecessary treatments the NHS actually hands out to save from upsetting people and avoid being accused of discrimination, all of the unnecessary consultants time, surgery time, admin time and other staff time involved in the treatment right down to the cleaners and its not just a couple of hundred pounds, its running into millions of pounds wasted on cosmetic surgery. "

Risk of suicide is pretty life threatening. Feeling trapped in the wrong body can do awful things to people's mental health.

I wonder what the suicide rate is in trans people?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"It seemed a rather apt news story

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6554031/Transgender-woman-shave-twice-day-says-NHS-mucking-peoples-lives.html

I pity anyone who gets their news from the daily mail

WPATH - the world experts on the standards of care for trans people (I know bloody experts getting medical degrees and knowing facts why should we listen to them) recommend laser treatment for trans women/femme ppl with gender dysphoria. The NHS provide 6 to 8 sessions which is barely enough for most people

Here is a radical thought. Why not ask should we pay enough tax so that the NHS is fully funded. If we decide to ration one group, be very careful, because someone you care about will be having their treatment rationed next

Ms Icebreaker "

I pity anyone who ignorantly trashes a news source if they're too lazy to check other sources. Here's a radical thought - how about people pay for their own luxurious additions to their treatment rather than expecting others to pay more on their behalf.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The NHS should be funded well enough so that it can judge each and every case on its individual need and merit and act accordingly. There is no need for hard and fast rules about what can and can't be done

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No sorry NHS is for sick people not for people who decide they want to be somebody else "

Best stop it paying for people who can’t be arsed to give up smoking or drinking too much or eating too much too then.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It seemed a rather apt news story

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6554031/Transgender-woman-shave-twice-day-says-NHS-mucking-peoples-lives.html "

Metro group are well known for publishing countless anti trans stories. They seek fuel for the anti trans fire.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When undergoing male to female gender reassignment surgery, parts of the male genitalia are reconstructed to form the inside of the vagina. The skin cannot have any hair follicles as hair could start growing inside the vagina and cause infection.

So electrolysis is a necessity and sessions would no doubt be cheaper than dealing with an infection and undergoing further surgery.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I am absolutely speechless..

There are people with actual life threatening and terminal illnesses that can actually be cured but do not get the life saving treatment because the NHS is too cash strapped to be able to afford the treatment...

Paying for transgender operations and hair removal is not life threatening if not done, in any way, shape or form..

I am sure for those that want to recognise as an alternative gender, there are physiological and psychological hurdles they have to overcome and I would be lying if I said I understood any of them but in comparison to the person that is physically ill and cannot get treatment, consider their suffering and the suffering of friends and family..

What if it was your son or daughter, wife, husband, parent, best friend... how would you feel knowing they will die because they cannot get life saving treatment but someone is having their chin hair removed to make them look more feminine?

Now multiply out the number of 8 hour unnecessary treatments the NHS actually hands out to save from upsetting people and avoid being accused of discrimination, all of the unnecessary consultants time, surgery time, admin time and other staff time involved in the treatment right down to the cleaners and its not just a couple of hundred pounds, its running into millions of pounds wasted on cosmetic surgery.

Risk of suicide is pretty life threatening. Feeling trapped in the wrong body can do awful things to people's mental health.

I wonder what the suicide rate is in trans people? "

I still don't understand why someone telling who is clearly underweight telling their doctor they are overweight (body dysmorphia) may eventually be sectioned and force fed to gain weight, counter to their believed identity. While someone that is clearly one sex but telling their doctor they are another (gender dysphoria) may be given hormones and surgery to change their sex? It makes little difference to my life in the long run, but I think it is something I will never ever get to grips with. ( And yes I have heard all the "there are 42 chromosomal sexes" arguments. In reality this accounts for a tiny tiny part of gender dysphoria cases)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We have to stop somewhere as assess what is essential. We all have to do it in life, in our own budgets and think do we really need that? It would be nice but could I spend my money on something more essential? and the NHS is no different with their budget. If I want something that is none essential to my life I would save up for it. People have to take responsibility for their own health and well being. It isn't a trans issue to me it's a national entitlement issue. We are tax payers yes but we can't all take out of the NHS kitty for luxury items. Take responsibility for your own health and if it isn't essential to life pay for it yourself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If the NHS are funding the transition. Then yes.

I should imagine it’s quite an important part to be honest. "

This! If a treatment of any kind is paid for, it should be paid for in full... how fair is it to give a lady the body she should have been born in but leave her with a beard... surely the psychological implications if that could be as bad as getting no treatment? It would be the first thing people would notice..a lady with 5o’clock shadow..

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East


"No sorry NHS is for sick people not for people who decide they want to be somebody else "

They want to be themselves, not someone else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Should the nhs pay for self inflicted damage to the body.. alcohol related ,smoking related or eating related for example.

If we did not pay for any of those things we would have an nhs with a huge surplus of money!!

The nhs is wonder of modern world that we should not take for granted.

Mistress Amelia

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London


"I am absolutely speechless..

There are people with actual life threatening and terminal illnesses that can actually be cured but do not get the life saving treatment because the NHS is too cash strapped to be able to afford the treatment...

Paying for transgender operations and hair removal is not life threatening if not done, in any way, shape or form..

I am sure for those that want to recognise as an alternative gender, there are physiological and psychological hurdles they have to overcome and I would be lying if I said I understood any of them but in comparison to the person that is physically ill and cannot get treatment, consider their suffering and the suffering of friends and family..

What if it was your son or daughter, wife, husband, parent, best friend... how would you feel knowing they will die because they cannot get life saving treatment but someone is having their chin hair removed to make them look more feminine?

Now multiply out the number of 8 hour unnecessary treatments the NHS actually hands out to save from upsetting people and avoid being accused of discrimination, all of the unnecessary consultants time, surgery time, admin time and other staff time involved in the treatment right down to the cleaners and its not just a couple of hundred pounds, its running into millions of pounds wasted on cosmetic surgery.

Risk of suicide is pretty life threatening. Feeling trapped in the wrong body can do awful things to people's mental health.

I wonder what the suicide rate is in trans people?

I still don't understand why someone telling who is clearly underweight telling their doctor they are overweight (body dysmorphia) may eventually be sectioned and force fed to gain weight, counter to their believed identity. While someone that is clearly one sex but telling their doctor they are another (gender dysphoria) may be given hormones and surgery to change their sex? It makes little difference to my life in the long run, but I think it is something I will never ever get to grips with. ( And yes I have heard all the "there are 42 chromosomal sexes" arguments. In reality this accounts for a tiny tiny part of gender dysphoria cases)"

On an ontological level, I agree. I can't see how you can make an exception for someone who sincerely thinks they are x when objectively they are y, in the category of sex. As you say, we don't affirm anorexics in their strongly held but objectively wrong beliefs about their bodies.

However I believe there is evidence that with gender dysphoria medical treatment to approximate to the perceived sex can be beneficial. Presumably the same doesn't apply to anorexics.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a transgender female myself I have thought long and hard in ehether to comment. I am 50 years old next month.

Perhaps some will say I have a selfish vested interest. As a healthcare worker supporting adults with life limiting conditions and their families, that "selfishness" is forefront in my everyday thoughts. How dare I accept any NHS funding!

And then my testimony reminds me.

I was born into a loving caring if strict home. Certainly never wanted as a child - lower middle cla2ss you'd say.

I knew from a young age I was a girl even though I was brought up as a boy. I remember playing dress up as a child and played with girls at school, chatted with girls- my peer groil was girks because I felt happiest expressing myself as a girl.

Puberty was horrendous - mg body was changing into adult male even though emotionally and consciously I was becomjng a woman. I cried myself to sleep most nights - I would never have periods. Would never become pregnant. Would forever have "that bulge".

I confided in my so called best friend - next thing boys from school cornered me and the sexual abuse started "be a good girl" "this is what girls need"

I cried myself to sleep most nights. When would it end.

I married a divorcee at 25 - it was the done thing. Although I was a young woman, I tried to conform to societal conditioning that said I was a man. All attwmpts at expressing my femininity were derided. I would cry myself to sleep.

I could see no end to the anguish - my female friends and work colleagues were nursing mothers. I so longed to carry a child of my own to term. I was imprisoned in a male body. I would cry myself to sleep.

I am a woman with no vagina, no ovaries, no breasts, no hair to brush,no smooth skin - instead I have horrible body and facial hair and an appendage thst is thd very epitome of that which I am not.

Twice I have ovrrdosed on medication. I cried mysekkf to sleep. Make it stop.

Twice I sat on the parapet. But something held me back. You are a woman. Be strong. You have cried yousekf to sleep for 40+ years. You are a woman and spciety keeps saying you a male.

Yes you are a woman - cry no more. You can transition your body to match that of the woman you are.

For the ladt year - I now live and work 24/7 being the woman I am. I hope to be prescribed feminising hormones and facisl hair removal and finally have a vagina. I will never experience thd joy of pregnancy or childbirth which at 50 years old is probably a good thing.

Should the NHS fund my transition?

I velieve so. I do have gender dysphoria which is a condition for which medical interventions are available.

I will end my penarth worth with a quote from the WPATH guidelines

"Gender Nonconformity Is Not the Same as Gender Dysphoria 

Gender nonconformity refers to the extent to which a person’s gender identity, role, or expression

differs from the cultural norms prescribed for people of a particular sex (Institute of Medicine,

2011).

Gender dysphoria refers to discomfort or distress that is caused by a discrepancy between

a person’s gender identity and that person’s sex assigned at birth (and the associated gender role and/or primary and secondary sex characteristics) (Fisk, 1974; Knudson, De Cuypere, & Bockting,

2010b).

Only some gender nonconforming people experience gender dysphoria at some point in their lives.

Treatment is available to assist people with such distress to explore their gender identity and find a gender role that is comfortable for them (Bockting & Goldberg, 2006).

Treatment is individualized:

What helps one person alleviate gender dysphoria might be very different from what helps

another person. This process may or may not involve a change in gender expression or body

modifications. Medical treatment options include, for example, feminization or masculinization

of the body through hormone therapy and/or surgery, which are effective in alleviating gender

dysphoria and are medically necessary for many people. Gender identities and expressions are

diverse, and hormones and surgery are just two of many options available to assist people with

achieving comfort with self and identity. 

Gender dysphoria can in large part be alleviated through treatment (Murad et al., 2010). Hence,

while transsexual, transgender, and gender nonconforming people may experience gender dysphoria at some point in their lives, many individuals who receive treatment will find a gender role and expression that is comfortable for them, even if these differ from those associated with their sex assigned at birth, or from prevailing gender norms and expectations.

Diagnoses Related to Gender Dysphoria

Some people experience gender dysphoria at such a level that the distress meets criteria for a

formal diagnosis that might be classified as a mental disorder. Such a diagnosis is not a license for stigmatization or for the deprivation of civil and human rights. Existing classification systems such as the Diagnostic Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) (American Psychiatric Association,

2000) and the International Classification of Diseases (ICD) (World Health Organization, 2007)

define hundreds of mental disorders that vary in onset, duration, pathogenesis, functional disability, and treatability. All of these systems attempt to classify clusters of symptoms and conditions, not the individuals themselves. A disorder is a description of something with which a person might struggle, not a description of the person or the person’s identity.

Thus, transsexual, transgender, and gender nonconforming individuals are not inherently

disordered. Rather, the distress of gender dysphoria, when present, is the concern that might be

diagnosable and for which various treatment options are available. The existence of a diagnosis for

such dysphoria often facilitates access to health care and can guide further research into effective treatments.

Research is leading to new diagnostic nomenclatures, and terms are changing in both the DSM

(Cohen-Kettenis & Pfäfflin, 2010; Knudson, De Cuypere, & Bockting, 2010b; Meyer-Bahlburg, 2010;

Zucker, 2010) and the ICD. For this reason, familiar terms are employed in the SOC and definitions are provided for terms that may be emerging. Health professionals should refer to the most current diagnostic criteria and appropriate codes to apply in their practice areas.

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By *nowy and the GruffaloCouple
over a year ago

Aberdeenshire


"Should the nhs pay for self inflicted damage to the body.. alcohol related ,smoking related or eating related for example.

If we did not pay for any of those things we would have an nhs with a huge surplus of money!!

The nhs is wonder of modern world that we should not take for granted.

Mistress Amelia

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Transgenderism is a delusion and a mental disorder which should not be allowed at all. I read an article by a psychiatrist from Johns Hopkins University Medical School who said that these people could be helped with psychotherapy. he mentioned that confused young people often grow out of this later on. BTW, I actually know someone like this. He(not she) claims to have had an OBE, an out-of-body experience in which a female "entity" merged with him and transformed him into a woman. I don't know if any drugs were involved but he has been know to partake of them in the past. He was about the only man I knew who I thought had a good marriage and a successful life. Instead, he suffered from a bad divorce and it went downhill from there. He has always been rebellious and I think that he is acting out against his overbearing and religious mother from when he was young. He absolutely does not look like a woman and never will. He also has emotional outbursts of rage and is hypersensitive about anything that he finds offensive because of the hormones he takes.

Gay marriage has been quite a political controversy but, since there is gay marriage in many places, "transgenderism" has replaced it. There is a focus on smaller and more extreme minorities as a political distraction.

There is so much publicity given to this that many more people than before think that this is an option for them. Several years ago, here in this city, a couple had their 7 year son convinced that he was a girl. This is absolutely child abuse.

Furthermore, if the gender of your body does not result from genetics and biology then neither does homosexuality. If your gender is a choice so is your sexual preference. Some radical lesbians are beginning to discover this.

Incidentally, there is a rather bright Australian-American young woman named Sydney Watson with a Youtube channel of the same name who discusses this and many other issues of the day.

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By *haron_Marie_TVTV/TS
over a year ago

Local

If you work you should pay I don't think anything on NHS should be free, it struggles enough x

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By *rontier PsychiatristMan
over a year ago

Coventry

I think in terms of practicality, cost and the wellbeing of the individual we must weigh up the cost and effect of not doing it? I think we need to ensure this money worth spending in terms of mental (and thus physical) health and not just giving in to some ones vanity whims. I'm trust (and hope) the NHS has investigated and judged wisely with our money. But if this is deemed the best treatment for the individual in terms of cost v effect then yes it should be offered. To not offer it may cause more suffering and as a result more cost in the long run to the NHS. I would say it's all good listening to the average person on the streets opinion but a great idea to listen first to the doctors and patients.

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By *nowy and the GruffaloCouple
over a year ago

Aberdeenshire


"Transgenderism is a delusion and a mental disorder which should not be allowed at all. I read an article by a psychiatrist from Johns Hopkins University Medical School who said that these people could be helped with psychotherapy. he mentioned that confused young people often grow out of this later on. BTW, I actually know someone like this. He(not she) claims to have had an OBE, an out-of-body experience in which a female "entity" merged with him and transformed him into a woman. I don't know if any drugs were involved but he has been know to partake of them in the past. He was about the only man I knew who I thought had a good marriage and a successful life. Instead, he suffered from a bad divorce and it went downhill from there. He has always been rebellious and I think that he is acting out against his overbearing and religious mother from when he was young. He absolutely does not look like a woman and never will. He also has emotional outbursts of rage and is hypersensitive about anything that he finds offensive because of the hormones he takes.

Gay marriage has been quite a political controversy but, since there is gay marriage in many places, "transgenderism" has replaced it. There is a focus on smaller and more extreme minorities as a political distraction.

There is so much publicity given to this that many more people than before think that this is an option for them. Several years ago, here in this city, a couple had their 7 year son convinced that he was a girl. This is absolutely child abuse.

Furthermore, if the gender of your body does not result from genetics and biology then neither does homosexuality. If your gender is a choice so is your sexual preference. Some radical lesbians are beginning to discover this.

Incidentally, there is a rather bright Australian-American young woman named Sydney Watson with a Youtube channel of the same name who discusses this and many other issues of the day. "

You believe Transgenderism is a delusion and a mental disorder which shouldn't be allowed, and that sexual preference is a choice?

The sparks are going to fly with that one!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you work you should pay I don't think anything on NHS should be free, it struggles enough x"

That kinda thinking is the sort of thing the conservatives are accused of wanting. Baisically the end of the nhs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No

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By *rwhite30Man
over a year ago

deptford London


"No sorry NHS is for sick people not for people who decide they want to be somebody else "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you work you should pay I don't think anything on NHS should be free, it struggles enough x

That kinda thinking is the sort of thing the conservatives are accused of wanting. Baisically the end of the nhs. "

The nhs has been ‘ending’ in stages for some time now, free is being gradually phased out and in most cases it’s a subsidising mess. It’s been abused and underfunded in equal measure for as long as I can remember and Is barely fit for purpose. If you want top quality healthcare you need to pay for it privately and that’s been the case for some time. It stands no chance while paying out for ridiculous procedures and it’s selfish to think otherwise

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, the nhs is under enough financial strain and should not be paying for any treatments like that for men, women or trans

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It looks like the nhs blows about 0.007% of its budget on gender reassignment.

Breast cancer spend is about 4%.

About 470 times as much on one type of cancer.

The spend on obesity is approx 5% of the budget; about 700 times what they waste on gender reassignment.

Gender reassignment is hardly breaking the budget.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"It looks like the nhs blows about 0.007% of its budget on gender reassignment.

Breast cancer spend is about 4%.

About 470 times as much on one type of cancer.

The spend on obesity is approx 5% of the budget; about 700 times what they waste on gender reassignment.

Gender reassignment is hardly breaking the budget. "

Rachael makes very valid points here.

The NHS was designed to and still to this day provide global health care to all regardless of sexual orientation or religious beliefs.

To say one person deserves and another doesn't goes against its core ethos.

Everyone will have their own thoughts on who should or shouldn't get treatment and have their reasons, but the simple fact is that the NHS is non discriminatory in who it treats, is a modern wonder and a legacy britain has shared with the world.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m in two minds about this, on the one had the NHS should look after people with problems that are effecting their immediate physical health only, otherwise it seems frivolous. But on the other it’s a drop in the ocean of their budget, so maybe it will pay in the long term, because if it helps someone’s mental health then that would be worth it in the long run. I suspect it’s probably more than just a vanity project to the people getting it done. But priority should always be given to people with genuine physical problems, which I’m sure it is.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"I’m in two minds about this, on the one had the NHS should look after people with problems that are effecting their immediate physical health only, otherwise it seems frivolous. But on the other it’s a drop in the ocean of their budget, so maybe it will pay in the long term, because if it helps someone’s mental health then that would be worth it in the long run. I suspect it’s probably more than just a vanity project to the people getting it done. But priority should always be given to people with genuine physical problems, which I’m sure it is."

Mental health is frivolous?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I’m in two minds about this, on the one had the NHS should look after people with problems that are effecting their immediate physical health only, otherwise it seems frivolous. But on the other it’s a drop in the ocean of their budget, so maybe it will pay in the long term, because if it helps someone’s mental health then that would be worth it in the long run. I suspect it’s probably more than just a vanity project to the people getting it done. But priority should always be given to people with genuine physical problems, which I’m sure it is.

Mental health is frivolous? "

No, on the surface getting hair removed is frivolous, but the mental health reasons behind it aren’t. That’s why I’m saying I think it should be done.

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By *inkyChrissy99TV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol

I think it should be covered but in moderation and just where required such as on the face as for a trans person this is essential.

A lot of mtf trans people need this as there facial hair can't be compared with a cis female.

It is as essential as hormones, a ftm trans person wouldn't develop more facial growth if it wasn't for hormones incidentally.

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By *atietvsheffTV/TS
over a year ago

Sheffield

Unbelievable how much ignorance some people on here have, supposedly open minded people in a swingers site being so narrow minded and polar in views. The NHS we all know is cash starved but who on here has the right to say what constitutes a treatable condition on the NHS or not. It’s not about labeling conditions or people it’s about the effect in those people lives that having those conditions or symptoms have on them. Saying it’s not life threatening to people whose mental well being is seriously impacted by living in a body that they do not identify with and how they feel inside is and has been for many life threatening and has driven people suicidal thoughts or actions. These people could be your brother, your sister, your husband your wife, your nieces and nephews aunties or uncles, your best friend your work colleague just the same as someone who breaks the law by taking drugs then get treat on the NHS for free, someone who smokes and gets cancer treatment free, alcoholics who get treatment free, all these are lifestyle choices that impact in the NHS, if a transperson is driven to suicide or self harm there’s a higher cost in the NHS and society and their immediate family and friends, so to all You supposedly open minded people on here who are bigots with closed minds because trans it’s not something that affects you personally all I say isn’t that I hope your lifestyle choices that require NHS intervention don’t end up costing genuine tax paying trans people more money by having a higher tax bill imposed on them to pay for your indiscretions. What a sad society we live in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apparently the government have a 15 billion pounds surplus this MONTH.

That’s about 130% of the nhs monthly budget.

Go figure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unlike me but I’m really on the fence with this one.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unlike me but I’m really on the fence with this one. "

Where are you on gastric bands? Reconstructive surgery? Liver failure through drinking? Lung cancer treatment for heavy smokers?

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury


"Unlike me but I’m really on the fence with this one.

Where are you on gastric bands? Reconstructive surgery? Liver failure through drinking? Lung cancer treatment for heavy smokers? "

I guess it's tricky because those are not cosmetic procedures. You need to compare like with like.

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By *exikatWoman
over a year ago

belfast

No no no.

There are people dying waiting on lifesaving treatment.

I have to pay for my sugaring and threading, why should nhs allow this for transgenders...surely thats discrimination.

I would rather save someones life and deal with a bit of hair.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unlike me but I’m really on the fence with this one.

Where are you on gastric bands? Reconstructive surgery? Liver failure through drinking? Lung cancer treatment for heavy smokers? "

See this reminded me of something similar. A friend had a gastric band paid for through the NHS and I don’t agree she should have done. She claimed mental health but I know for a fact she can’t stick to a diet and spends her life eating junk food and won’t go near a gym. Like I said I can see both sides. It’s a difficult one yes and I admit to seeing the post and immediately thinking no it shouldn’t be paid for on the NHS but after reading through it has now made me think.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unlike me but I’m really on the fence with this one.

Where are you on gastric bands? Reconstructive surgery? Liver failure through drinking? Lung cancer treatment for heavy smokers?

See this reminded me of something similar. A friend had a gastric band paid for through the NHS and I don’t agree she should have done. She claimed mental health but I know for a fact she can’t stick to a diet and spends her life eating junk food and won’t go near a gym. Like I said I can see both sides. It’s a difficult one yes and I admit to seeing the post and immediately thinking no it shouldn’t be paid for on the NHS but after reading through it has now made me think. "

Also where do you stop? Should hair transplants be paid for? Baldness can sometimes affect confidence and could be put down to it mentally affecting one’s life. I really don’t know where I stand on this.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London


"Unlike me but I’m really on the fence with this one.

Where are you on gastric bands? Reconstructive surgery? Liver failure through drinking? Lung cancer treatment for heavy smokers?

See this reminded me of something similar. A friend had a gastric band paid for through the NHS and I don’t agree she should have done. She claimed mental health but I know for a fact she can’t stick to a diet and spends her life eating junk food and won’t go near a gym. Like I said I can see both sides. It’s a difficult one yes and I admit to seeing the post and immediately thinking no it shouldn’t be paid for on the NHS but after reading through it has now made me think.

Also where do you stop? Should hair transplants be paid for? Baldness can sometimes affect confidence and could be put down to it mentally affecting one’s life. I really don’t know where I stand on this. "

Indeed.

There are people who have body dysmorphia to the extent that they desperately want their limbs amputated. We don't accede to that request.

The issue is how far physical interventions can deal with psychological issues.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unlike me but I’m really on the fence with this one.

Where are you on gastric bands? Reconstructive surgery? Liver failure through drinking? Lung cancer treatment for heavy smokers?

I guess it's tricky because those are not cosmetic procedures. You need to compare like with like. "

Gender reassignment isn’t a cosmetic procedure, I agree.

Where as gastric bands are for health and cosmetic reasons for people with no will power.

Reconstructive surgery is very much cosmetic.

The last two aren’t, but they are wn to life choices.

Obviously no one would choose to be transgender.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London


"Unlike me but I’m really on the fence with this one.

Where are you on gastric bands? Reconstructive surgery? Liver failure through drinking? Lung cancer treatment for heavy smokers?

I guess it's tricky because those are not cosmetic procedures. You need to compare like with like.

Gender reassignment isn’t a cosmetic procedure, I agree.

Where as gastric bands are for health and cosmetic reasons for people with no will power.

Reconstructive surgery is very much cosmetic.

The last two aren’t, but they are wn to life choices.

Obviously no one would choose to be transgender. "

Say there is someone who is vastly overweight, has tried to diet and exercise but has never been able to keep it up and is suicidal at being so overweight.

On the other hand, you have someone who feels distress in their sexed body, has tried to come to terms with their body and failed and is suicidal re being in their body.

Are you saying the latter should get surgery but not the former?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unlike me but I’m really on the fence with this one.

Where are you on gastric bands? Reconstructive surgery? Liver failure through drinking? Lung cancer treatment for heavy smokers?

I guess it's tricky because those are not cosmetic procedures. You need to compare like with like.

Gender reassignment isn’t a cosmetic procedure, I agree.

Where as gastric bands are for health and cosmetic reasons for people with no will power.

Reconstructive surgery is very much cosmetic.

The last two aren’t, but they are wn to life choices.

Obviously no one would choose to be transgender.

Say there is someone who is vastly overweight, has tried to diet and exercise but has never been able to keep it up and is suicidal at being so overweight.

On the other hand, you have someone who feels distress in their sexed body, has tried to come to terms with their body and failed and is suicidal re being in their body.

Are you saying the latter should get surgery but not the former? "

Nope.

Both.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" I have to pay for my sugaring and threading, why should nhs allow this for transgenders...surely thats discrimination.

I would rather save someones life and deal with a bit of hair."

I pay for my own body waxing and eye threading. Generally speaking that does me for a few weeks.

But facial har removal. Alternative is I shave twice a day. No woman ahould be doing that.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London


"No no no.

There are people dying waiting on lifesaving treatment.

I have to pay for my sugaring and threading, why should nhs allow this for transgenders...surely thats discrimination.

I would rather save someones life and deal with a bit of hair."

If people are dying from want of treatment it's not because of treatment for trans people, who are a tiny proportion of society.

All kinds of things get funded on the NHS, why is it always trans issues that have to be debated on monetary terms?

I mean, transphobia probably.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury


"Unlike me but I’m really on the fence with this one.

Where are you on gastric bands? Reconstructive surgery? Liver failure through drinking? Lung cancer treatment for heavy smokers?

I guess it's tricky because those are not cosmetic procedures. You need to compare like with like.

Gender reassignment isn’t a cosmetic procedure,"

No, but hair removal is. And there's plenty of over the counter treatments for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If students have to play for uni these days then people can pay for their own hair removal it only seems fair.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Considering there are plenty of treatments over the counter for such things, and extra hair growth is not limited to just men, regardless of how common or uncommon it is in women.

It is straight up purely cosmetic and should be paid for by the person in question not the NHS.

There is a lot of pointless shit that the NHS already has to pay out for already, don't go adding more to the list. I don't care if you are.

Man, woman, transgender, or whatever of the other genders people choose to identify as, if your reason for some form of treatment is cosmetic then you pay for your own treatment.

Some exceptions when all other options have been tried and exhausted with good reason, and now successful results.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unlike me but I’m really on the fence with this one.

Where are you on gastric bands? Reconstructive surgery? Liver failure through drinking? Lung cancer treatment for heavy smokers?

I guess it's tricky because those are not cosmetic procedures. You need to compare like with like.

Gender reassignment isn’t a cosmetic procedure,

No, but hair removal is. And there's plenty of over the counter treatments for it."

Not terribly effective for a Homer Simpson style shadow though.

Personally, as you know from out chats, I paid for my own laser and the difference to me was life changing. I’m fortunate enough to be able to afford it though.

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