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"A bit heavy for a Monday afternoon? " Are you closing your own thread? | |||
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"A bit heavy for a Monday afternoon? " I don't really venture into the forums on a Monday, heavy topic or not | |||
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Maybe i'll listen to Raheems points though, it's certainly raised a few eyebrows. And knowing what it's like out of the public eye I guess it's pretty bad in it. | |||
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"After reading about Raheem Sterling's experiences at the weekend and in the light of further recent high profile racist abuse its set me thinking; Do we as a culture do enough to counter racism and wider prejudice in general? Many contributors to the current discussion believe that the debate is never had or becomes watered down and avoided and as a result racism has been allowed to flourish again. I realise that as a white male I am probably the last person to be able to understand how it would feel in that situation but I personally think that a person, regardless of their skin, gender, religion or sexual orientation should always be treated with the compassion and respect that anyone would expect given to themselves. Is respect for another human such a hard thing to grasp? Do social media platforms allow these kind of views to flourish? Is this topic 'off limits' or do we need to be making the same kind of public debate that accompanied the "me too" movement? Over to you dear fabbers... " No topic should be off limits. Unfortunately some topics attract extreme opinions. At which point a sensible accord and way forward is seldom found. If we thought racism in football had gone away we were very much. Mistaken. I think the ignorant use it as a tool to distract the talented. It seldom works. | |||
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"I'm not a football fan, but why do they have the supporters so close to the pitch? They should be far enough back not to be able to directly communicate with the players. With American football stadiums, the fans are at least 20 metres from the field." It's always been that way as it enhances the atmosphere and brings a different element and intensity to the game. I don't think moving the crowd and detracting from the game is the answer either. Dealing with the root cause surely is the way forwards | |||
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"Maybe everybody is just a bit bored ot the subject, especially when 99% of the respondents are white without a clue
Maybe i'll listen to Raheems points though, it's certainly raised a few eyebrows. And knowing what it's like out of the public eye I guess it's pretty bad in it. "Maybe we don't understand and that's part of the issue here. It's easy to ignore it and label it as the vocal minority or dismiss it when it doesn't directly involve us on a daily basis. | |||
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"After reading about Raheem Sterling's experiences at the weekend and in the light of further recent high profile racist abuse its set me thinking; Do we as a culture do enough to counter racism and wider prejudice in general? Many contributors to the current discussion believe that the debate is never had or becomes watered down and avoided and as a result racism has been allowed to flourish again. I realise that as a white male I am probably the last person to be able to understand how it would feel in that situation but I personally think that a person, regardless of their skin, gender, religion or sexual orientation should always be treated with the compassion and respect that anyone would expect given to themselves. Is respect for another human such a hard thing to grasp? Do social media platforms allow these kind of views to flourish? Is this topic 'off limits' or do we need to be making the same kind of public debate that accompanied the "me too" movement? Over to you dear fabbers... No topic should be off limits. Unfortunately some topics attract extreme opinions. At which point a sensible accord and way forward is seldom found. If we thought racism in football had gone away we were very much. Mistaken. I think the ignorant use it as a tool to distract the talented. It seldom works. " Extreme topics should always be addressed I think and maybe this topic needs looking at in all aspects of society. | |||
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"The big problem is that football matches have always had , and will always have an element of hooliganism . This is another example of it , and although it was clearly racist , it’s no different to calling Peter Crouch a lanky bastard , or Juan Mata a short arse cunt . The fans will claim it’s normal banter , and anyone who attends the game will agree . The fact that it’s normal in this environment doesn’t make it right , but as Raheem said , he treated it with the contempt it warranted . It’s the press who create much of the issue every time . His example was perfect in showing why . A white player from his club who isn’t a first team player buys his Mum a house . The paper say he’s a great bloke . A black player , the same age and not a first team player , and the same paper highlights his colour , the fact he isn’t in the first team , and yet he has the money to buy a house , which was also for his mother but they didn’t say that ! Fortunately the rest of society seem to be way less confrontational with the insults and abuse , but football matches are very much way behind with racial , size , homophobic and all manner of other forms of verbal abuse . This incident should have been ignored , just as it was by Raheem when it happened . As it is we are all talking about it , and thus it will continue , instead of being yesterday’s chip paper ." I disagree that this sort of thing should be ignored, sweeping it under the carpet has done nothing, in fact things are clearly worse because of this attitude. There is a whole world of difference between calling someone 'lanky' and abusing them because of the colour of his skin, if you can't recognise that then there's an issue | |||
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"The big problem is that football matches have always had , and will always have an element of hooliganism . This is another example of it , and although it was clearly racist , it’s no different to calling Peter Crouch a lanky bastard , or Juan Mata a short arse cunt . The fans will claim it’s normal banter , and anyone who attends the game will agree . The fact that it’s normal in this environment doesn’t make it right , but as Raheem said , he treated it with the contempt it warranted . It’s the press who create much of the issue every time . His example was perfect in showing why . A white player from his club who isn’t a first team player buys his Mum a house . The paper say he’s a great bloke . A black player , the same age and not a first team player , and the same paper highlights his colour , the fact he isn’t in the first team , and yet he has the money to buy a house , which was also for his mother but they didn’t say that ! Fortunately the rest of society seem to be way less confrontational with the insults and abuse , but football matches are very much way behind with racial , size , homophobic and all manner of other forms of verbal abuse . This incident should have been ignored , just as it was by Raheem when it happened . As it is we are all talking about it , and thus it will continue , instead of being yesterday’s chip paper . I disagree that this sort of thing should be ignored, sweeping it under the carpet has done nothing, in fact things are clearly worse because of this attitude. There is a whole world of difference between calling someone 'lanky' and abusing them because of the colour of his skin, if you can't recognise that then there's an issue" Agreed.... Sweeping it under the carpet and ignoring it doesn't help There's a guy in my pub who incredibly racist... For 2 years I've ignored it and laughed it off calling him out of date. He enjoyed the attention. So I called him out on it in front of everyone 3-4 weeks ago and asked for everyone else's support as I'm not willing to accept it anymore. I've not seen him since as he's in there less often.... Result is that I don't have to listen to his bigoted and offensive language. | |||
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"We are living in a society with all forms of racism and various other isms. Positive isms I feel are just as bad as negative. We live in a society where companies have to employ percentage of ethnic minorities, women and disabled persons. A job application isn't fair based on stats they have to fulfil in order to be accepted for the job role. A position can be passed over by someone perfectly qualified regardless of their gender, race, sexuality or disability. But they have to fulfil the quota/stats of employment by giving the job to someone less qualified but fits the criteria they are looking for. That's positive isms. Merits earned but not rewarded. Everyone is human. We all bleed, and we all feel. We have people segregating ourselves perpetuating the issues. Like BBC labeling does it make any difference what colour the person is, their cock is. There's big cocks in every colour does it really make a difference on skin colour? Ive never cared what colour a person is, what faith they practice, what disabilities a person has, what gender or sexuality. What's important is they are a good person, moral, honest, caring, thoughtful and every other good quality you can think of. For a job if you've got the qualification if you've got the experience that's should be what matters. Isms shouldn't have any part in society be it negative or positive. Eduction and teaching your children that everybody matters regardless of our differences. That's where change starts. "  | |||
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"We are living in a society with all forms of racism and various other isms. Positive isms I feel are just as bad as negative. We live in a society where companies have to employ percentage of ethnic minorities, women and disabled persons. A job application isn't fair based on stats they have to fulfil in order to be accepted for the job role. A position can be passed over by someone perfectly qualified regardless of their gender, race, sexuality or disability. But they have to fulfil the quota/stats of employment by giving the job to someone less qualified but fits the criteria they are looking for. That's positive isms. Merits earned but not rewarded. Everyone is human. We all bleed, and we all feel. We have people segregating ourselves perpetuating the issues. Like BBC labeling does it make any difference what colour the person is, their cock is. There's big cocks in every colour does it really make a difference on skin colour? Ive never cared what colour a person is, what faith they practice, what disabilities a person has, what gender or sexuality. What's important is they are a good person, moral, honest, caring, thoughtful and every other good quality you can think of. For a job if you've got the qualification if you've got the experience that's should be what matters. Isms shouldn't have any part in society be it negative or positive. Eduction and teaching your children that everybody matters regardless of our differences. That's where change starts. " I agree with you 100% about education and change | |||
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"The big problem is that football matches have always had , and will always have an element of hooliganism . This is another example of it , and although it was clearly racist , it’s no different to calling Peter Crouch a lanky bastard , or Juan Mata a short arse cunt . The fans will claim it’s normal banter , and anyone who attends the game will agree . The fact that it’s normal in this environment doesn’t make it right , but as Raheem said , he treated it with the contempt it warranted . It’s the press who create much of the issue every time . His example was perfect in showing why . A white player from his club who isn’t a first team player buys his Mum a house . The paper say he’s a great bloke . A black player , the same age and not a first team player , and the same paper highlights his colour , the fact he isn’t in the first team , and yet he has the money to buy a house , which was also for his mother but they didn’t say that ! Fortunately the rest of society seem to be way less confrontational with the insults and abuse , but football matches are very much way behind with racial , size , homophobic and all manner of other forms of verbal abuse . This incident should have been ignored , just as it was by Raheem when it happened . As it is we are all talking about it , and thus it will continue , instead of being yesterday’s chip paper . I disagree that this sort of thing should be ignored, sweeping it under the carpet has done nothing, in fact things are clearly worse because of this attitude. There is a whole world of difference between calling someone 'lanky' and abusing them because of the colour of his skin, if you can't recognise that then there's an issue" What’s the difference between ‘lanky’ and ‘black’ then ? Both are used to be abusive , both are issues the recipient can do nothing about , and nor should they . I guess I must have an issue then , because I can’t see why one is any worse than the other . Both are offensive and uncalled for , but very commonly heard at football matches . | |||
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"Very good topic. I think that as a white man growing up in predominantly white society I can't really understand what institutionalise racism feels like. But I believe that it is the most violent form of racism" i went to a school that was mostly black, i can tell you racism works against every skin colour | |||
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"Maybe everybody is just a bit bored ot the subject, especially when 99% of the respondents are white without a clue
Maybe i'll listen to Raheems points though, it's certainly raised a few eyebrows. And knowing what it's like out of the public eye I guess it's pretty bad in it.
Maybe we don't understand and that's part of the issue here. It's easy to ignore it and label it as the vocal minority or dismiss it when it doesn't directly involve us on a daily basis.
"Yes but what always happens is the vocal white majority take over, tell everybody how it should be, even though it has never and will never affect them, and they often start telling black people how they should be feeling and reacting. It is beyond patronising and annoying, particularly for somebody affected, indirectly but just as painfully, on a daily basis. So no point in having an opinion the guardian reading lefties can tell everybody what there opinion is without knowing them. | |||
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"Raheem Sterling is just the latest target, Rooney got it from the fans and the press so did Terry and Beckham, Sterling just happens to be black, To me it looked like the man was shouting you manc bastard, (I haven't heard any audio yet) The man standing 2-3 meters away was on the TV this morning said he didn't hear any racist abuse either, Not saying it doesn't happen at grounds but its not as bad as some people say it is, Eradicate racism and another form of abuse will take its place, Its how humans are wired unfortunately" Spot on | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others." Exactly my point, look at the 100% of posters being white, all telling the world how, racism should be dealt with. Until white people learn to listen then there is no point discussing anything. Problem is they don't need to listen, we know it all already. If only....... | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others." Can you not detect the reversely racist undertone of the two book titles? Rise above this stuff people. There are no cookie cutter "white people" or "black people"..we are all individuals deserving of respect until we prove otherwise. When you start to categorise people like that you are in a dark place intellectually. | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others. Exactly my point, look at the 100% of posters being white, all telling the world how, racism should be dealt with. Until white people learn to listen then there is no point discussing anything. Problem is they don't need to listen, we know it all already. If only....... " My question to all movements.. is: What do you actually want? What is your plan to get there? | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal." A very sweeping and dismissive generalisation which could in itself be construed as a racist comment. Unfortunately it just undermines anything of importance that you might have said. | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. A very sweeping and dismissive generalisation which could in itself be construed as a racist comment. Unfortunately it just undermines anything of importance that you might have said." | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others. Exactly my point, look at the 100% of posters being white, all telling the world how, racism should be dealt with. Until white people learn to listen then there is no point discussing anything. Problem is they don't need to listen, we know it all already. If only....... My question to all movements.. is: What do you actually want? What is your plan to get there? " It shouldn't be a movement, we need to rais our kids to respect everybody, and additionally only make a big deal when it's needed, making a big deal about everything, as while liberals absolutely love to do, lovers the actual effect when real issues occur. So constantly playing the race card is the same as the boy that cried wolf, not relating sterling to that as I haven't seen or heard it. But white liberals love playing the race card on behalf of the poor down trodden non whites, as this thread yet again proves. | |||
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"that would be letting racism win" Life is full of winners and losers | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others. Exactly my point, look at the 100% of posters being white, all telling the world how, racism should be dealt with. Until white people learn to listen then there is no point discussing anything. Problem is they don't need to listen, we know it all already. If only....... My question to all movements.. is: What do you actually want? What is your plan to get there? It shouldn't be a movement, we need to rais our kids to respect everybody, and additionally only make a big deal when it's needed, making a big deal about everything, as while liberals absolutely love to do, lovers the actual effect when real issues occur. So constantly playing the race card is the same as the boy that cried wolf, not relating sterling to that as I haven't seen or heard it. But white liberals love playing the race card on behalf of the poor down trodden non whites, as this thread yet again proves. " I don't even know what you are saying? Are you annoyed at the white guilt apologists like teamonkey and talkingstove? | |||
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"I'm not a football fan, but why do they have the supporters so close to the pitch? They should be far enough back not to be able to directly communicate with the players. With American football stadiums, the fans are at least 20 metres from the field." That doesn't stop rwc8sn though, does it? They just shout it louder. | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway." You're not a football fan so how can you say there is too much racism in football  It happens just like anywhere else its nothing to do with football, Get rid of fans ? Pointless asking did you see the England game a few weeks ago without any fans, Fans make the atmosphere without it there would be no money in football and a pointless sport | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others. Exactly my point, look at the 100% of posters being white, all telling the world how, racism should be dealt with. Until white people learn to listen then there is no point discussing anything. Problem is they don't need to listen, we know it all already. If only....... My question to all movements.. is: What do you actually want? What is your plan to get there? It shouldn't be a movement, we need to rais our kids to respect everybody, and additionally only make a big deal when it's needed, making a big deal about everything, as while liberals absolutely love to do, lovers the actual effect when real issues occur. So constantly playing the race card is the same as the boy that cried wolf, not relating sterling to that as I haven't seen or heard it. But white liberals love playing the race card on behalf of the poor down trodden non whites, as this thread yet again proves. " I'm not actually telling anybody how to think and I'm certainly not telling anybody how to feel, in fact if you read my OP you'll see that I acknowledge that. Liberal views or not I think that Sterling has a very real point in what he has said, dismissing the conversation as 'Liberal' rubbish, or words to that effect diminishes the whole subject | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others." So what exactly is the difference between being called a lanky or being called black as an insulting term ? Lanky was merely an example of a player who has endured abuse because of his height . Other players are called ginger haired cunts , and Lukaku is often called a fat fuck . So size , hair colour , height are different to skin colour in what way ? As far as I’m concerned , any tall kid , fat kid , or ginger haired kid will be testament to the fact that the hurtfulness is just as painful . | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. You're not a football fan so how can you say there is too much racism in football It happens just like anywhere else its nothing to do with football, Get rid of fans ? Pointless asking did you see the England game a few weeks ago without any fans, Fans make the atmosphere without it there would be no money in football and a pointless sport"Well, it's a pointless sport anyway, why flog a dead horse? And any racism is too much racism | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others. Exactly my point, look at the 100% of posters being white, all telling the world how, racism should be dealt with. Until white people learn to listen then there is no point discussing anything. Problem is they don't need to listen, we know it all already. If only....... My question to all movements.. is: What do you actually want? What is your plan to get there? It shouldn't be a movement, we need to rais our kids to respect everybody, and additionally only make a big deal when it's needed, making a big deal about everything, as while liberals absolutely love to do, lovers the actual effect when real issues occur. So constantly playing the race card is the same as the boy that cried wolf, not relating sterling to that as I haven't seen or heard it. But white liberals love playing the race card on behalf of the poor down trodden non whites, as this thread yet again proves. " I'll also add that I never get a straight answer. I agree...all we need is to have respect and dignity for all. Identity politics is counterproductive in that regard. | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. You're not a football fan so how can you say there is too much racism in football It happens just like anywhere else its nothing to do with football, Get rid of fans ? Pointless asking did you see the England game a few weeks ago without any fans, Fans make the atmosphere without it there would be no money in football and a pointless sport
Well, it's a pointless sport anyway, why flog a dead horse? And any racism is too much racism "pointless sport yet million watch it and love it, and it brings money into the country. Should we ban cars if some one shouts racist abuse out the window? | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway." Wow, stupidest post of the week winner! 12 pupils a week are being suspended from London schools for racism according to the London standard. That’s too much so shall we get rid of schools in London instead of trying to educate people? | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. Wow, stupidest post of the week winner! 12 pupils a week are being suspended from London schools for racism according to the London standard. That’s too much so shall we get rid of schools in London instead of trying to educate people? " You call my stupid, but offer nothing of a suggestion to abate the racism yourself. Are you comfortable enough with the racism to just ignore it then? Why? | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. You're not a football fan so how can you say there is too much racism in football It happens just like anywhere else its nothing to do with football, Get rid of fans ? Pointless asking did you see the England game a few weeks ago without any fans, Fans make the atmosphere without it there would be no money in football and a pointless sport
Well, it's a pointless sport anyway, why flog a dead horse? And any racism is too much racism "Probably easier getting rid of all the people who don't like football | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. Wow, stupidest post of the week winner! 12 pupils a week are being suspended from London schools for racism according to the London standard. That’s too much so shall we get rid of schools in London instead of trying to educate people? You call my #### stupid, but offer nothing of a suggestion to abate the racism yourself. Are you comfortable enough with the racism to just ignore it then? Why?" #### post | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. You're not a football fan so how can you say there is too much racism in football It happens just like anywhere else its nothing to do with football, Get rid of fans ? Pointless asking did you see the England game a few weeks ago without any fans, Fans make the atmosphere without it there would be no money in football and a pointless sport
Well, it's a pointless sport anyway, why flog a dead horse? And any racism is too much racism
Probably easier getting rid of all the people who don't like football "So, get rid of 90% of women?  | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. You're not a football fan so how can you say there is too much racism in football It happens just like anywhere else its nothing to do with football, Get rid of fans ? Pointless asking did you see the England game a few weeks ago without any fans, Fans make the atmosphere without it there would be no money in football and a pointless sport
Well, it's a pointless sport anyway, why flog a dead horse? And any racism is too much racism
Probably easier getting rid of all the people who don't like football
So, get rid of 90% of women? "If it was just the feminists and we kept the rest you could be on the something | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others. So what exactly is the difference between being called a lanky or being called black as an insulting term ? Lanky was merely an example of a player who has endured abuse because of his height . Other players are called ginger haired cunts , and Lukaku is often called a fat fuck . So size , hair colour , height are different to skin colour in what way ? As far as I’m concerned , any tall kid , fat kid , or ginger haired kid will be testament to the fact that the hurtfulness is just as painful . " . Because racism has been endured en mass, over hundreds of years... prior to the Slave trade when black people were considered demons in this country and then considered sub-human, during... lanky or ginger is not a race and cannot be seen on the same scale. It has come a long way since no doubt but when it is still being used as a derogatory slur, whether in football or on the street you know it hasn’t gone far enough x | |||
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"I've noticed some graffiti around with the tag "white trash" btw. These things escalate on both sides. " yes it does, i went to a basically all black school and i had to listen to all kinds of racism against white people | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. Wow, stupidest post of the week winner! 12 pupils a week are being suspended from London schools for racism according to the London standard. That’s too much so shall we get rid of schools in London instead of trying to educate people? You call my stupid, but offer nothing of a suggestion to abate the racism yourself. Are you comfortable enough with the racism to just ignore it then? Why?" your suggestions to abate the racism are just silly and unrealistic | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. Wow, stupidest post of the week winner! 12 pupils a week are being suspended from London schools for racism according to the London standard. That’s too much so shall we get rid of schools in London instead of trying to educate people? You call my stupid, but offer nothing of a suggestion to abate the racism yourself. Are you comfortable enough with the racism to just ignore it then? Why? your suggestions to abate the racism are just silly and unrealistic " And yours are non-existent, so here we are | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others. So what exactly is the difference between being called a lanky or being called black as an insulting term ? Lanky was merely an example of a player who has endured abuse because of his height . Other players are called ginger haired cunts , and Lukaku is often called a fat fuck . So size , hair colour , height are different to skin colour in what way ? As far as I’m concerned , any tall kid , fat kid , or ginger haired kid will be testament to the fact that the hurtfulness is just as painful . . Because racism has been endured en mass, over hundreds of years... prior to the Slave trade when black people were considered demons in this country and then considered sub-human, during... lanky or ginger is not a race and cannot be seen on the same scale. It has come a long way since no doubt but when it is still being used as a derogatory slur, whether in football or on the street you know it hasn’t gone far enough x" Thanks for answering instead of making derisory comments . | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. Wow, stupidest post of the week winner! 12 pupils a week are being suspended from London schools for racism according to the London standard. That’s too much so shall we get rid of schools in London instead of trying to educate people? You call my stupid, but offer nothing of a suggestion to abate the racism yourself. Are you comfortable enough with the racism to just ignore it then? Why? your suggestions to abate the racism are just silly and unrealistic And yours are non-existent, so here we are "and yours are the same as non-existent as they are that ridiculous | |||
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"I've noticed some graffiti around with the tag "white trash" btw. These things escalate on both sides. yes it does, i went to a basically all black school and i had to listen to all kinds of racism against white people" Racism in any form is wrong, hate breeds hate. | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others. So what exactly is the difference between being called a lanky or being called black as an insulting term ? Lanky was merely an example of a player who has endured abuse because of his height . Other players are called ginger haired cunts , and Lukaku is often called a fat fuck . So size , hair colour , height are different to skin colour in what way ? As far as I’m concerned , any tall kid , fat kid , or ginger haired kid will be testament to the fact that the hurtfulness is just as painful . . Because racism has been endured en mass, over hundreds of years... prior to the Slave trade when black people were considered demons in this country and then considered sub-human, during... lanky or ginger is not a race and cannot be seen on the same scale. It has come a long way since no doubt but when it is still being used as a derogatory slur, whether in football or on the street you know it hasn’t gone far enough x" Offense is offense but I think the cultural landscape imparts extra offense bonus points to this stuff. Irish people should be equally offended by all sorts of stuff like this but we are not - we got over it - we had a massive genocidal famine (on a population basis much worse than theft of human life from Africa), indentured slavery in Montserrat and an equal level of exclusion in the past. "No blacks, no dogs, no irish" signs were common in the 80s in London. | |||
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"I've noticed some graffiti around with the tag "white trash" btw. These things escalate on both sides. yes it does, i went to a basically all black school and i had to listen to all kinds of racism against white people Racism in any form is wrong, hate breeds hate. " And this white guilt message you push exacerbates things. | |||
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"I've noticed some graffiti around with the tag "white trash" btw. These things escalate on both sides. yes it does, i went to a basically all black school and i had to listen to all kinds of racism against white people Racism in any form is wrong, hate breeds hate. " correct. I was just saying as alot of people think white people have no idea what racism feels like | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. Wow, stupidest post of the week winner! 12 pupils a week are being suspended from London schools for racism according to the London standard. That’s too much so shall we get rid of schools in London instead of trying to educate people? You call my stupid, but offer nothing of a suggestion to abate the racism yourself. Are you comfortable enough with the racism to just ignore it then? Why? your suggestions to abate the racism are just silly and unrealistic And yours are non-existent, so here we are
and yours are the same as non-existent as they are that ridiculous "But they're not non-existent otherwise you would not have commented on them. Are you a typical football fan? | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. Wow, stupidest post of the week winner! 12 pupils a week are being suspended from London schools for racism according to the London standard. That’s too much so shall we get rid of schools in London instead of trying to educate people? You call my stupid, but offer nothing of a suggestion to abate the racism yourself. Are you comfortable enough with the racism to just ignore it then? Why? your suggestions to abate the racism are just silly and unrealistic And yours are non-existent, so here we are
and yours are the same as non-existent as they are that ridiculous
But they're not non-existent otherwise you would not have commented on them. Are you a typical football fan?"tell me what a typical football fan is? | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. Wow, stupidest post of the week winner! 12 pupils a week are being suspended from London schools for racism according to the London standard. That’s too much so shall we get rid of schools in London instead of trying to educate people? You call my stupid, but offer nothing of a suggestion to abate the racism yourself. Are you comfortable enough with the racism to just ignore it then? Why?" Read my first post on this thread if you want my views. If you want to turn this from a thread debating about if racism is once again rearing it’s ugly head to an attack on the national sport of this country and categorising a whole fan culture as racists then please feel free to start another thread about racism in football and give us your experiences. I’ve followed my club and country for the past 30 years and in the last 15 to 20 years the only racist abuse I have witnessed was chanted towards us when we were called sheep shaggers while supporting my national team. | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. Wow, stupidest post of the week winner! 12 pupils a week are being suspended from London schools for racism according to the London standard. That’s too much so shall we get rid of schools in London instead of trying to educate people? You call my stupid, but offer nothing of a suggestion to abate the racism yourself. Are you comfortable enough with the racism to just ignore it then? Why? your suggestions to abate the racism are just silly and unrealistic And yours are non-existent, so here we are
and yours are the same as non-existent as they are that ridiculous
But they're not non-existent otherwise you would not have commented on them. Are you a typical football fan? tell me what a typical football fan is?"Ok. answer a question with a question. I'll leave you to wallow in your football fanaticism | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others. So what exactly is the difference between being called a lanky or being called black as an insulting term ? Lanky was merely an example of a player who has endured abuse because of his height . Other players are called ginger haired cunts , and Lukaku is often called a fat fuck . So size , hair colour , height are different to skin colour in what way ? As far as I’m concerned , any tall kid , fat kid , or ginger haired kid will be testament to the fact that the hurtfulness is just as painful . . Because racism has been endured en mass, over hundreds of years... prior to the Slave trade when black people were considered demons in this country and then considered sub-human, during... lanky or ginger is not a race and cannot be seen on the same scale. It has come a long way since no doubt but when it is still being used as a derogatory slur, whether in football or on the street you know it hasn’t gone far enough x Thanks for answering instead of making derisory comments . "No problem, and anyone is susceptible to some form of abuse due to their appearance etc. but that is on an individual level, racism has been embedded in society. It probably doesn’t make it any more or less hurtful if you’re on the receiving end of any abuse but it’s the history of racism and how it transcends into present day that makes it different. There are still lasting effects of oppression there x | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. Wow, stupidest post of the week winner! 12 pupils a week are being suspended from London schools for racism according to the London standard. That’s too much so shall we get rid of schools in London instead of trying to educate people? You call my stupid, but offer nothing of a suggestion to abate the racism yourself. Are you comfortable enough with the racism to just ignore it then? Why? your suggestions to abate the racism are just silly and unrealistic And yours are non-existent, so here we are
and yours are the same as non-existent as they are that ridiculous
But they're not non-existent otherwise you would not have commented on them. Are you a typical football fan?"They are ridiculous though but then that seems to be your MO on most things. How easy do you think it will be to get rid of one of the biggest sports in the world? Your other suggestion to simply move the fans away from the pitch was equally ridiculous. Both suggestions won't stop racisim they will just push it somewhere else. What then? Ban the other thing people are racist at? As the other guy said, do we ban schools where racism occurs? | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others. So what exactly is the difference between being called a lanky or being called black as an insulting term ? Lanky was merely an example of a player who has endured abuse because of his height . Other players are called ginger haired cunts , and Lukaku is often called a fat fuck . So size , hair colour , height are different to skin colour in what way ? As far as I’m concerned , any tall kid , fat kid , or ginger haired kid will be testament to the fact that the hurtfulness is just as painful . . Because racism has been endured en mass, over hundreds of years... prior to the Slave trade when black people were considered demons in this country and then considered sub-human, during... lanky or ginger is not a race and cannot be seen on the same scale. It has come a long way since no doubt but when it is still being used as a derogatory slur, whether in football or on the street you know it hasn’t gone far enough x Offense is offense but I think the cultural landscape imparts extra offense bonus points to this stuff. Irish people should be equally offended by all sorts of stuff like this but we are not - we got over it - we had a massive genocidal famine (on a population basis much worse than theft of human life from Africa), indentured slavery in Montserrat and an equal level of exclusion in the past. "No blacks, no dogs, no irish" signs were common in the 80s in London. " Still in the 80s? I’ve seen a picture of that sign (well similar) from around the 50s I think... just shows though how recently racism could be that blatant - and thought views don’t disappear quickly, they may go less blatant but they still exist... incidentally, I used to go out with a lad from Dublin when I was 18... holiday romance, loved him! Anyway, he got punched by a taxi driver here and when he came over with his friends, they would get abuse because they were Irish  x | |||
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"We are living in a society with all forms of racism and various other isms. Positive isms I feel are just as bad as negative. We live in a society where companies have to employ percentage of ethnic minorities, women and disabled persons. A job application isn't fair based on stats they have to fulfil in order to be accepted for the job role. A position can be passed over by someone perfectly qualified regardless of their gender, race, sexuality or disability. But they have to fulfil the quota/stats of employment by giving the job to someone less qualified but fits the criteria they are looking for. That's positive isms. Merits earned but not rewarded. Everyone is human. We all bleed, and we all feel. We have people segregating ourselves perpetuating the issues. Like BBC labeling does it make any difference what colour the person is, their cock is. There's big cocks in every colour does it really make a difference on skin colour? Ive never cared what colour a person is, what faith they practice, what disabilities a person has, what gender or sexuality. What's important is they are a good person, moral, honest, caring, thoughtful and every other good quality you can think of. For a job if you've got the qualification if you've got the experience that's should be what matters. Isms shouldn't have any part in society be it negative or positive. Eduction and teaching your children that everybody matters regardless of our differences. That's where change starts. " | |||
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"I've noticed some graffiti around with the tag "white trash" btw. These things escalate on both sides. yes it does, i went to a basically all black school and i had to listen to all kinds of racism against white people Racism in any form is wrong, hate breeds hate. And this white guilt message you push exacerbates things. " Stop pointing the finger at me as part of the problem! I'm not wringing my hands in any form of culpability nor on behalf of anyone. I'm responsible for my own actions, no one else's. I do however think that there is an issue and it should be brought into the light. If you disagree with me for whatever reason, then that's your prerogative but don't try and assume my motives nor dismiss me through labels of politics. | |||
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"I've noticed some graffiti around with the tag "white trash" btw. These things escalate on both sides. yes it does, i went to a basically all black school and i had to listen to all kinds of racism against white people Racism in any form is wrong, hate breeds hate. And this white guilt message you push exacerbates things. Stop pointing the finger at me as part of the problem! I'm not wringing my hands in any form of culpability nor on behalf of anyone. I'm responsible for my own actions, no one else's. I do however think that there is an issue and it should be brought into the light. If you disagree with me for whatever reason, then that's your prerogative but don't try and assume my motives nor dismiss me through labels of politics. " It's funny how you are defensive. I'm simply saying the same thing to you as you are saying to me. Don't assume anything because I'm the the dreaded "white male" and don't come at me with your white guilt apologist virtue signaling. Live your own life. | |||
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"I've noticed some graffiti around with the tag "white trash" btw. These things escalate on both sides. yes it does, i went to a basically all black school and i had to listen to all kinds of racism against white people Racism in any form is wrong, hate breeds hate. And this white guilt message you push exacerbates things. Stop pointing the finger at me as part of the problem! I'm not wringing my hands in any form of culpability nor on behalf of anyone. I'm responsible for my own actions, no one else's. I do however think that there is an issue and it should be brought into the light. If you disagree with me for whatever reason, then that's your prerogative but don't try and assume my motives nor dismiss me through labels of politics. It's funny how you are defensive. I'm simply saying the same thing to you as you are saying to me. Don't assume anything because I'm the the dreaded "white male" and don't come at me with your white guilt apologist virtue signaling. Live your own life. " I am thanks. I didn't come at you with anything, this is an important topic of discussion, however you choose to label me. I didn't start this thread to argue who has the right to comment and i certainly don't believe that you have to earn a voice in things. But then that's my belief | |||
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"I've noticed some graffiti around with the tag "white trash" btw. These things escalate on both sides. yes it does, i went to a basically all black school and i had to listen to all kinds of racism against white people Racism in any form is wrong, hate breeds hate. And this white guilt message you push exacerbates things. Stop pointing the finger at me as part of the problem! I'm not wringing my hands in any form of culpability nor on behalf of anyone. I'm responsible for my own actions, no one else's. I do however think that there is an issue and it should be brought into the light. If you disagree with me for whatever reason, then that's your prerogative but don't try and assume my motives nor dismiss me through labels of politics. It's funny how you are defensive. I'm simply saying the same thing to you as you are saying to me. Don't assume anything because I'm the the dreaded "white male" and don't come at me with your white guilt apologist virtue signaling. Live your own life. I am thanks. I didn't come at you with anything, this is an important topic of discussion, however you choose to label me. I didn't start this thread to argue who has the right to comment and i certainly don't believe that you have to earn a voice in things. But then that's my belief " Yes and my point is that the more we play identity politics, the more we give people reasons to be angry at people from other "groups", the worse off we will all be. That you supposedly intelligent, worldy, right on types can't see what is so obvious to me is baffling. | |||
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"What I love when I see replies to topics like this, is all the people in places of the country where seeing a black person in the street is an unusual occurrence, who had no black people in their entire schools growing up, who can count the amount of times they've had deep conversations with black people on one hand or less, chiming in, with their Daily Mail, UKIP derived views on racism on the rest of us. And when I say I love it, what I mean it makes me sick.. I have a suggestion... If my description describes you, even vaguely, then keep your totally detached 3rd hand views to yourself. You simply aren't qualified to have any relevant points & you look like absolute bellends to everyone other than your equally monochrome peers. Learn when to close your mouth & listen, or, move the hell on to the next topic, in your blissful ignorance. Cheers "London is probably the most diverse city in the country but probably has more segregated areas and racial tension then anywhere else | |||
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"London is probably the most diverse city in the country but probably has more segregated areas and racial tension then anywhere else" Oh right, do you mean the areas that Tommy Robinson & Trump describe as no-go-zones? If so, I can tell you with authority, that that's absolute bollocks. If you mean dodgy housing estates, yes, there are a few, as there are up & down the country. Obviously the racial makeup of those estates varies depending where they are, & is of no consequence. | |||
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"There is really only one type of inequality and that's class/income inequality. The race and gender stuff is generally hot air directed at the wrong problem. " Hot air.. Hot air.. Says the outspoken white man who can't comprehend irony in graffiti tags.. insert rolling eyes emoticon | |||
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"There is really only one type of inequality and that's class/income inequality. The race and gender stuff is generally hot air directed at the wrong problem. Hot air.. Hot air.. Says the outspoken white man who can't comprehend irony in graffiti tags.. insert rolling eyes emoticon" You see, you can't even bring yourself to debate the point as you qualify opinions by skin colour
Ironic racism
Bollox! | |||
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"I'm not a football fan, but why do they have the supporters so close to the pitch? They should be far enough back not to be able to directly communicate with the players. With American football stadiums, the fans are at least 20 metres from the field." Thats the stupidest thing I've ever read, If it was not for us supports the players and the club would not be were they are as WE play their wages, And some fans want to be near the favourite player or if you have young kids. | |||
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"There is really only one type of inequality and that's class/income inequality. The race and gender stuff is generally hot air directed at the wrong problem. Hot air.. Hot air.. Says the outspoken white man who can't comprehend irony in graffiti tags.. insert rolling eyes emoticon You see, you can't even bring yourself to debate the point as you qualify opinions by skin colour
Ironic racism
Bollox!"Has it occurred to you that the "white trash" tag you`ve seen (& seem to be using as some kind of "we`re all as bad as each other" justification) was actually dawbed by a spotty white teenager who feels hard done by by society & is using it as a kind of badge of pride? No? Thought not.. | |||
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"There is really only one type of inequality and that's class/income inequality. The race and gender stuff is generally hot air directed at the wrong problem. Hot air.. Hot air.. Says the outspoken white man who can't comprehend irony in graffiti tags.. insert rolling eyes emoticon You see, you can't even bring yourself to debate the point as you qualify opinions by skin colour
Ironic racism
Bollox!"I'm not even going to dignify your assertion by trying to argue with you. | |||
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"There is really only one type of inequality and that's class/income inequality. The race and gender stuff is generally hot air directed at the wrong problem. Hot air.. Hot air.. Says the outspoken white man who can't comprehend irony in graffiti tags.. insert rolling eyes emoticon You see, you can't even bring yourself to debate the point as you qualify opinions by skin colour
Ironic racism
Bollox!
Has it occurred to you that the "white trash" tag you`ve seen (& seem to be using as some kind of "we`re all as bad as each other" justification) was actually dawbed by a spotty white teenager who feels hard done by by society & is using it as a kind of badge of pride?
No? Thought not.."Is the a prize for the most far fetched come back ever? | |||
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"There is really only one type of inequality and that's class/income inequality. The race and gender stuff is generally hot air directed at the wrong problem. Hot air.. Hot air.. Says the outspoken white man who can't comprehend irony in graffiti tags.. insert rolling eyes emoticon You see, you can't even bring yourself to debate the point as you qualify opinions by skin colour
Ironic racism
Bollox!
I'm not even going to dignify your assertion by trying to argue with you.
"Suit yourself Mr. White Guilt | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. Wow, stupidest post of the week winner! 12 pupils a week are being suspended from London schools for racism according to the London standard. That’s too much so shall we get rid of schools in London instead of trying to educate people? You call my stupid, but offer nothing of a suggestion to abate the racism yourself. Are you comfortable enough with the racism to just ignore it then? Why? your suggestions to abate the racism are just silly and unrealistic And yours are non-existent, so here we are
and yours are the same as non-existent as they are that ridiculous
But they're not non-existent otherwise you would not have commented on them. Are you a typical football fan? tell me what a typical football fan is?
Ok. answer a question with a question. I'll leave you to wallow in your football fanaticism "You got found out for being stupid, good bye | |||
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"There is really only one type of inequality and that's class/income inequality. The race and gender stuff is generally hot air directed at the wrong problem. Hot air.. Hot air.. Says the outspoken white man who can't comprehend irony in graffiti tags.. insert rolling eyes emoticon You see, you can't even bring yourself to debate the point as you qualify opinions by skin colour
Ironic racism
Bollox!
I'm not even going to dignify your assertion by trying to argue with you.
Suit yourself Mr. White Guilt" | |||
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"Is the a prize for the most far fetched come back ever? " I`d put £100 on that tag belonging to a white kid.. Prove me wrong. | |||
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"Is the a prize for the most far fetched come back ever? I`d put £100 on that tag belonging to a white kid.. Prove me wrong." You are right, it was probably _ea monkey | |||
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"We brits need to man up and hold our hands up high and say sorry. We were instrumental in slavery and extortion of the African people. How we did what we did to the innocent people of these nations is beyond me" Even Prince Charles said it recently, & I respect him for that (I`m no roayalist, either). | |||
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"Is the a prize for the most far fetched come back ever? I`d put £100 on that tag belonging to a white kid.. Prove me wrong. You are right, it was probably _ea monkey "Guilty... Oh hang on, was that the wrong word to use with you? | |||
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"The big problem is that football matches have always had , and will always have an element of hooliganism . This is another example of it , and although it was clearly racist , it’s no different to calling Peter Crouch a lanky bastard , or Juan Mata a short arse cunt . The fans will claim it’s normal banter , and anyone who attends the game will agree . The fact that it’s normal in this environment doesn’t make it right , but as Raheem said , he treated it with the contempt it warranted . It’s the press who create much of the issue every time . His example was perfect in showing why . A white player from his club who isn’t a first team player buys his Mum a house . The paper say he’s a great bloke . A black player , the same age and not a first team player , and the same paper highlights his colour , the fact he isn’t in the first team , and yet he has the money to buy a house , which was also for his mother but they didn’t say that ! Fortunately the rest of society seem to be way less confrontational with the insults and abuse , but football matches are very much way behind with racial , size , homophobic and all manner of other forms of verbal abuse . This incident should have been ignored , just as it was by Raheem when it happened . As it is we are all talking about it , and thus it will continue , instead of being yesterday’s chip paper . I disagree that this sort of thing should be ignored, sweeping it under the carpet has done nothing, in fact things are clearly worse because of this attitude. There is a whole world of difference between calling someone 'lanky' and abusing them because of the colour of his skin, if you can't recognise that then there's an issue What’s the difference between ‘lanky’ and ‘black’ then ? Both are used to be abusive , both are issues the recipient can do nothing about , and nor should they . I guess I must have an issue then , because I can’t see why one is any worse than the other . Both are offensive and uncalled for , but very commonly heard at football matches ." Simple question - have you ever heard of anyone being lynched just for being lanky? | |||
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"The thing for white people to note was his response. A young lad, surrounded by hateful looking and sounding middle aged white men and he just smiled: didn't get angry. " Yes his attitude was brilliant and he should be congratulated, but there’s no excuse he shouldn’t be facing abuse like that in 21st century | |||
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"The thing for white people to note was his response. A young lad, surrounded by hateful looking and sounding middle aged white men and he just smiled: didn't get angry. Yes his attitude was brilliant and he should be congratulated, but there’s no excuse he shouldn’t be facing abuse like that in 21st century " I absolutely agree. This was my reason for posting this thread before I got accused of being a Liberal guardian reader with a guilt complex! | |||
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" What’s the difference between ‘lanky’ and ‘black’ then ? Both are used to be abusive , both are issues the recipient can do nothing about , and nor should they . I guess I must have an issue then , because I can’t see why one is any worse than the other . Both are offensive and uncalled for , but very commonly heard at football matches . Simple question - have you ever heard of anyone being lynched just for being lanky? "Oh yeah, the systematic lynching of lanky people right up until the 60`s.. Then there was that FBI Gingergate scandal, where the FBI systematically suppressed & ended the "Ginger Power" movement in the 70`s early 80`s.. Oh no, sorry, those things specific to Black people only, not gingers & "lankies".. | |||
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"The big problem is that football matches have always had , and will always have an element of hooliganism . This is another example of it , and although it was clearly racist , it’s no different to calling Peter Crouch a lanky bastard , or Juan Mata a short arse cunt . The fans will claim it’s normal banter , and anyone who attends the game will agree . The fact that it’s normal in this environment doesn’t make it right , but as Raheem said , he treated it with the contempt it warranted . It’s the press who create much of the issue every time . His example was perfect in showing why . A white player from his club who isn’t a first team player buys his Mum a house . The paper say he’s a great bloke . A black player , the same age and not a first team player , and the same paper highlights his colour , the fact he isn’t in the first team , and yet he has the money to buy a house , which was also for his mother but they didn’t say that ! Fortunately the rest of society seem to be way less confrontational with the insults and abuse , but football matches are very much way behind with racial , size , homophobic and all manner of other forms of verbal abuse . This incident should have been ignored , just as it was by Raheem when it happened . As it is we are all talking about it , and thus it will continue , instead of being yesterday’s chip paper . I disagree that this sort of thing should be ignored, sweeping it under the carpet has done nothing, in fact things are clearly worse because of this attitude. There is a whole world of difference between calling someone 'lanky' and abusing them because of the colour of his skin, if you can't recognise that then there's an issue What’s the difference between ‘lanky’ and ‘black’ then ? Both are used to be abusive , both are issues the recipient can do nothing about , and nor should they . I guess I must have an issue then , because I can’t see why one is any worse than the other . Both are offensive and uncalled for , but very commonly heard at football matches . Simple question - have you ever heard of anyone being lynched just for being lanky? "No I haven’t , although in past times dwarves were hung and burned at the stake . But that’s not the point . I , as much as anyone else abhor all forms of racism , sizeism , homophobia , etc... and I understand the history issue that surrounds racism to black people . The guy in the crowd called him a fucking black cunt . He didn’t lynch him , nor was he likely to . Yes there’s history , but to move on we need to see things for what they actually are . The difference between that and Lukaku being called a fuckin fat cunt is what ? Lukaku is also black , but he’s been called fat so that’s not as bad then ? What I’m trying to say is that any name calling is bad , and Raheem treated this incident with more maturity than half the people on this thread ! I don’t condone it at all , it just needs to be put into perspective , and football matches have always had all manner of abuse shouted from the terraces . | |||
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" What’s the difference between ‘lanky’ and ‘black’ then ? Both are used to be abusive , both are issues the recipient can do nothing about , and nor should they . I guess I must have an issue then , because I can’t see why one is any worse than the other . Both are offensive and uncalled for , but very commonly heard at football matches . Simple question - have you ever heard of anyone being lynched just for being lanky?
Oh yeah, the systematic lynching of lanky people right up until the 60`s..
Then there was that FBI Gingergate scandal, where the FBI systematically suppressed & ended the "Ginger Power" movement in the 70`s early 80`s..
Oh no, sorry, those things specific to Black people only, not gingers & "lankies".. "And don't forget the riots in Los Angeles in the 90s, after video footage was found of a lanky man being systematically beaten by police at the roadside... | |||
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" What’s the difference between ‘lanky’ and ‘black’ then ? Both are used to be abusive , both are issues the recipient can do nothing about , and nor should they . I guess I must have an issue then , because I can’t see why one is any worse than the other . Both are offensive and uncalled for , but very commonly heard at football matches . Simple question - have you ever heard of anyone being lynched just for being lanky?
Oh yeah, the systematic lynching of lanky people right up until the 60`s..
Then there was that FBI Gingergate scandal, where the FBI systematically suppressed & ended the "Ginger Power" movement in the 70`s early 80`s..
Oh no, sorry, those things specific to Black people only, not gingers & "lankies".. "Ah so it’s ok to abuse tall people and ginger haired people . Thanks for clearing that one up . As I have explained , pretty much every footballer gets abuse for all manner of reasons . The keeper lets in a sitter and he’s abused for the next ten minutes about his parentage , eyesight , etc...... the striker misses a penalty , and any opposing player who retrieves the ball in front of the fans gets stick . It’s part and parcel of the game . It isn’t right , I’m not saying it is , but sarcasm is a pretty low form of abuse too . | |||
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"Very good topic. I think that as a white man growing up in predominantly white society I can't really understand what institutionalise racism feels like. But I believe that it is the most violent form of racism" I get racist comments day in day out | |||
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"The big problem is that football matches have always had , and will always have an element of hooliganism . This is another example of it , and although it was clearly racist , it’s no different to calling Peter Crouch a lanky bastard , or Juan Mata a short arse cunt . The fans will claim it’s normal banter , and anyone who attends the game will agree . The fact that it’s normal in this environment doesn’t make it right , but as Raheem said , he treated it with the contempt it warranted . It’s the press who create much of the issue every time . His example was perfect in showing why . A white player from his club who isn’t a first team player buys his Mum a house . The paper say he’s a great bloke . A black player , the same age and not a first team player , and the same paper highlights his colour , the fact he isn’t in the first team , and yet he has the money to buy a house , which was also for his mother but they didn’t say that ! Fortunately the rest of society seem to be way less confrontational with the insults and abuse , but football matches are very much way behind with racial , size , homophobic and all manner of other forms of verbal abuse . This incident should have been ignored , just as it was by Raheem when it happened . As it is we are all talking about it , and thus it will continue , instead of being yesterday’s chip paper . I disagree that this sort of thing should be ignored, sweeping it under the carpet has done nothing, in fact things are clearly worse because of this attitude. There is a whole world of difference between calling someone 'lanky' and abusing them because of the colour of his skin, if you can't recognise that then there's an issue What’s the difference between ‘lanky’ and ‘black’ then ? Both are used to be abusive , both are issues the recipient can do nothing about , and nor should they . I guess I must have an issue then , because I can’t see why one is any worse than the other . Both are offensive and uncalled for , but very commonly heard at football matches . Simple question - have you ever heard of anyone being lynched just for being lanky?
No I haven’t , although in past times dwarves were hung and burned at the stake . But that’s not the point . I , as much as anyone else abhor all forms of racism , sizeism , homophobia , etc... and I understand the history issue that surrounds racism to black people .
The guy in the crowd called him a fucking black cunt . He didn’t lynch him , nor was he likely to . Yes there’s history , but to move on we need to see things for what they actually are . The difference between that and Lukaku being called a fuckin fat cunt is what ? Lukaku is also black , but he’s been called fat so that’s not as bad then ?
What I’m trying to say is that any name calling is bad , and Raheem treated this incident with more maturity than half the people on this thread !
I don’t condone it at all , it just needs to be put into perspective , and football matches have always had all manner of abuse shouted from the terraces . "Whose perspective? The one of the guy shouting who thinks "it's just banter", or the guy on the receiving end who (more often than not) has heard the same crap in the context of "you're less than the rest of us" for longer than most here would care to have to deal with themselves... My point being, why should Raheem Sterling's skin colour be the focus, rather than the fact that he plays for a rival side? | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others. So what exactly is the difference between being called a lanky or being called black as an insulting term ? Lanky was merely an example of a player who has endured abuse because of his height . Other players are called ginger haired cunts , and Lukaku is often called a fat fuck . So size , hair colour , height are different to skin colour in what way ? As far as I’m concerned , any tall kid , fat kid , or ginger haired kid will be testament to the fact that the hurtfulness is just as painful . . Because racism has been endured en mass, over hundreds of years... prior to the Slave trade when black people were considered demons in this country and then considered sub-human, during... lanky or ginger is not a race and cannot be seen on the same scale. It has come a long way since no doubt but when it is still being used as a derogatory slur, whether in football or on the street you know it hasn’t gone far enough x Thanks for answering instead of making derisory comments .
No problem, and anyone is susceptible to some form of abuse due to their appearance etc. but that is on an individual level, racism has been embedded in society. It probably doesn’t make it any more or less hurtful if you’re on the receiving end of any abuse but it’s the history of racism and how it transcends into present day that makes it different. There are still lasting effects of oppression there x"Nail, head. | |||
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" No I haven’t , although in past times dwarves were hung and burned at the stake . But that’s not the point . I , as much as anyone else abhor all forms of racism , sizeism , homophobia , etc... and I understand the history issue that surrounds racism to black people . The guy in the crowd called him a fucking black cunt . He didn’t lynch him , nor was he likely to . Yes there’s history , but to move on we need to see things for what they actually are . The difference between that and Lukaku being called a fuckin fat cunt is what ? Lukaku is also black , but he’s been called fat so that’s not as bad then ? What I’m trying to say is that any name calling is bad , and Raheem treated this incident with more maturity than half the people on this thread ! I don’t condone it at all , it just needs to be put into perspective , and football matches have always had all manner of abuse shouted from the terraces . " This is the second topic that I`ve noticed you in, and once again you've demonstrated how detached from the problem you are. You appear to know very little about racism, & absolutely nothing about the effects, thats evident from the grasping comparisons you make. That in itself doesn't make you unique, but the fact you think try to defend your comparisons against valid points is a problem, as, by doing that, you are belittling people who suffer the problem on a daily basis, when you have absolutely no personal experience of it. What you fail to realise is that that makes you part of the problem. I`m not saying your a bad person, I`m not saying your a racist, I`m just saying you should refrain from downplaying others negative experiences when you evidently have no personal experience of the problem in hand. As long as you do, especially with subjects like this, then you are inadvertently perpetuating the problem. | |||
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"The big problem is that football matches have always had , and will always have an element of hooliganism . This is another example of it , and although it was clearly racist , it’s no different to calling Peter Crouch a lanky bastard , or Juan Mata a short arse cunt . The fans will claim it’s normal banter , and anyone who attends the game will agree . The fact that it’s normal in this environment doesn’t make it right , but as Raheem said , he treated it with the contempt it warranted . It’s the press who create much of the issue every time . His example was perfect in showing why . A white player from his club who isn’t a first team player buys his Mum a house . The paper say he’s a great bloke . A black player , the same age and not a first team player , and the same paper highlights his colour , the fact he isn’t in the first team , and yet he has the money to buy a house , which was also for his mother but they didn’t say that ! Fortunately the rest of society seem to be way less confrontational with the insults and abuse , but football matches are very much way behind with racial , size , homophobic and all manner of other forms of verbal abuse . This incident should have been ignored , just as it was by Raheem when it happened . As it is we are all talking about it , and thus it will continue , instead of being yesterday’s chip paper . I disagree that this sort of thing should be ignored, sweeping it under the carpet has done nothing, in fact things are clearly worse because of this attitude. There is a whole world of difference between calling someone 'lanky' and abusing them because of the colour of his skin, if you can't recognise that then there's an issue What’s the difference between ‘lanky’ and ‘black’ then ? Both are used to be abusive , both are issues the recipient can do nothing about , and nor should they . I guess I must have an issue then , because I can’t see why one is any worse than the other . Both are offensive and uncalled for , but very commonly heard at football matches . Simple question - have you ever heard of anyone being lynched just for being lanky?
No I haven’t , although in past times dwarves were hung and burned at the stake . But that’s not the point . I , as much as anyone else abhor all forms of racism , sizeism , homophobia , etc... and I understand the history issue that surrounds racism to black people .
The guy in the crowd called him a fucking black cunt . He didn’t lynch him , nor was he likely to . Yes there’s history , but to move on we need to see things for what they actually are . The difference between that and Lukaku being called a fuckin fat cunt is what ? Lukaku is also black , but he’s been called fat so that’s not as bad then ?
What I’m trying to say is that any name calling is bad , and Raheem treated this incident with more maturity than half the people on this thread !
I don’t condone it at all , it just needs to be put into perspective , and football matches have always had all manner of abuse shouted from the terraces .
Whose perspective? The one of the guy shouting who thinks "it's just banter", or the guy on the receiving end who (more often than not) has heard the same crap in the context of "you're less than the rest of us" for longer than most here would care to have to deal with themselves...
My point being, why should Raheem Sterling's skin colour be the focus, rather than the fact that he plays for a rival side?"And my point is why should a players height , hair colour , weight or any other issue be the focus rather than the fact that he plays for a rival side ? I have made it perfectly clear that I don’t condone any of the insults thrown at anyone . It’s all wrong , and I sure as hell don’t support racism at all . It’s the perspective of the chants and taunts that all players endure . It’s an unfortunate part of the football culture . | |||
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" We brits need to man up and hold our hands up high and say sorry. We were instrumental in slavery and extortion of the African people. " Slavery was going on a lot longer then when the white English man turned up, Oh I don't need to man up and hold my hands up high and say sorry and neither do any of my ancestors as they was probably working the fields or slaving in a factory not putting anyone in chains | |||
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" And my point is why should a players height , hair colour , weight or any other issue be the focus rather than the fact that he plays for a rival side ? I have made it perfectly clear that I don’t condone any of the insults thrown at anyone . It’s all wrong , and I sure as hell don’t support racism at all . It’s the perspective of the chants and taunts that all players endure . It’s an unfortunate part of the football culture ." Jesus Christ almighty.. | |||
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" No I haven’t , although in past times dwarves were hung and burned at the stake . But that’s not the point . I , as much as anyone else abhor all forms of racism , sizeism , homophobia , etc... and I understand the history issue that surrounds racism to black people . The guy in the crowd called him a fucking black cunt . He didn’t lynch him , nor was he likely to . Yes there’s history , but to move on we need to see things for what they actually are . The difference between that and Lukaku being called a fuckin fat cunt is what ? Lukaku is also black , but he’s been called fat so that’s not as bad then ? What I’m trying to say is that any name calling is bad , and Raheem treated this incident with more maturity than half the people on this thread ! I don’t condone it at all , it just needs to be put into perspective , and football matches have always had all manner of abuse shouted from the terraces . This is the second topic that I`ve noticed you in, and once again you've demonstrated how detached from the problem you are. You appear to know very little about racism, & absolutely nothing about the effects, thats evident from the grasping comparisons you make. That in itself doesn't make you unique, but the fact you think try to defend your comparisons against valid points is a problem, as, by doing that, you are belittling people who suffer the problem on a daily basis, when you have absolutely no personal experience of it. What you fail to realise is that that makes you part of the problem. I`m not saying your a bad person, I`m not saying your a racist, I`m just saying you should refrain from downplaying others negative experiences when you evidently have no personal experience of the problem in hand. As long as you do, especially with subjects like this, then you are inadvertently perpetuating the problem." No , I’m putting a realistic viewpoint across . It’s clear that you have way more personal experience in this and indeed all aspects of life , so I will leave you to it now . | |||
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" And my point is why should a players height , hair colour , weight or any other issue be the focus rather than the fact that he plays for a rival side ? I have made it perfectly clear that I don’t condone any of the insults thrown at anyone . It’s all wrong , and I sure as hell don’t support racism at all . It’s the perspective of the chants and taunts that all players endure . It’s an unfortunate part of the football culture . Jesus Christ almighty.. " It would be a much better experience for you to ignore my posts . Just a thought ..... | |||
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" We brits need to man up and hold our hands up high and say sorry. We were instrumental in slavery and extortion of the African people. Slavery was going on a lot longer then when the white English man turned up, Oh I don't need to man up and hold my hands up high and say sorry and neither do any of my ancestors as they was probably working the fields or slaving in a factory not putting anyone in chains " So you think Britain got its position as a world superpower by what.. Tin mining? | |||
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"The big problem is that football matches have always had , and will always have an element of hooliganism . This is another example of it , and although it was clearly racist , it’s no different to calling Peter Crouch a lanky bastard , or Juan Mata a short arse cunt . The fans will claim it’s normal banter , and anyone who attends the game will agree . The fact that it’s normal in this environment doesn’t make it right , but as Raheem said , he treated it with the contempt it warranted . It’s the press who create much of the issue every time . His example was perfect in showing why . A white player from his club who isn’t a first team player buys his Mum a house . The paper say he’s a great bloke . A black player , the same age and not a first team player , and the same paper highlights his colour , the fact he isn’t in the first team , and yet he has the money to buy a house , which was also for his mother but they didn’t say that ! Fortunately the rest of society seem to be way less confrontational with the insults and abuse , but football matches are very much way behind with racial , size , homophobic and all manner of other forms of verbal abuse . This incident should have been ignored , just as it was by Raheem when it happened . As it is we are all talking about it , and thus it will continue , instead of being yesterday’s chip paper . I disagree that this sort of thing should be ignored, sweeping it under the carpet has done nothing, in fact things are clearly worse because of this attitude. There is a whole world of difference between calling someone 'lanky' and abusing them because of the colour of his skin, if you can't recognise that then there's an issue What’s the difference between ‘lanky’ and ‘black’ then ? Both are used to be abusive , both are issues the recipient can do nothing about , and nor should they . I guess I must have an issue then , because I can’t see why one is any worse than the other . Both are offensive and uncalled for , but very commonly heard at football matches . Simple question - have you ever heard of anyone being lynched just for being lanky?
No I haven’t , although in past times dwarves were hung and burned at the stake . But that’s not the point . I , as much as anyone else abhor all forms of racism , sizeism , homophobia , etc... and I understand the history issue that surrounds racism to black people .
The guy in the crowd called him a fucking black cunt . He didn’t lynch him , nor was he likely to . Yes there’s history , but to move on we need to see things for what they actually are . The difference between that and Lukaku being called a fuckin fat cunt is what ? Lukaku is also black , but he’s been called fat so that’s not as bad then ?
What I’m trying to say is that any name calling is bad , and Raheem treated this incident with more maturity than half the people on this thread !
I don’t condone it at all , it just needs to be put into perspective , and football matches have always had all manner of abuse shouted from the terraces .
Whose perspective? The one of the guy shouting who thinks "it's just banter", or the guy on the receiving end who (more often than not) has heard the same crap in the context of "you're less than the rest of us" for longer than most here would care to have to deal with themselves...
My point being, why should Raheem Sterling's skin colour be the focus, rather than the fact that he plays for a rival side?
And my point is why should a players height , hair colour , weight or any other issue be the focus rather than the fact that he plays for a rival side ?
I have made it perfectly clear that I don’t condone any of the insults thrown at anyone . It’s all wrong , and I sure as hell don’t support racism at all .
It’s the perspective of the chants and taunts that all players endure . It’s an unfortunate part of the football culture ."I'm not having a go or accusing you of anything other than you're kinda missing the point...racist abuse hits on a deeper level than someone's hair colour, height, etc., and whether people would want to admit to it or not, deep down, those that do it, know that. | |||
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"The big problem is that football matches have always had , and will always have an element of hooliganism . This is another example of it , and although it was clearly racist , it’s no different to calling Peter Crouch a lanky bastard , or Juan Mata a short arse cunt . The fans will claim it’s normal banter , and anyone who attends the game will agree . The fact that it’s normal in this environment doesn’t make it right , but as Raheem said , he treated it with the contempt it warranted . It’s the press who create much of the issue every time . His example was perfect in showing why . A white player from his club who isn’t a first team player buys his Mum a house . The paper say he’s a great bloke . A black player , the same age and not a first team player , and the same paper highlights his colour , the fact he isn’t in the first team , and yet he has the money to buy a house , which was also for his mother but they didn’t say that ! Fortunately the rest of society seem to be way less confrontational with the insults and abuse , but football matches are very much way behind with racial , size , homophobic and all manner of other forms of verbal abuse . This incident should have been ignored , just as it was by Raheem when it happened . As it is we are all talking about it , and thus it will continue , instead of being yesterday’s chip paper . I disagree that this sort of thing should be ignored, sweeping it under the carpet has done nothing, in fact things are clearly worse because of this attitude. There is a whole world of difference between calling someone 'lanky' and abusing them because of the colour of his skin, if you can't recognise that then there's an issue What’s the difference between ‘lanky’ and ‘black’ then ? Both are used to be abusive , both are issues the recipient can do nothing about , and nor should they . I guess I must have an issue then , because I can’t see why one is any worse than the other . Both are offensive and uncalled for , but very commonly heard at football matches . Simple question - have you ever heard of anyone being lynched just for being lanky?
No I haven’t , although in past times dwarves were hung and burned at the stake . But that’s not the point . I , as much as anyone else abhor all forms of racism , sizeism , homophobia , etc... and I understand the history issue that surrounds racism to black people .
The guy in the crowd called him a fucking black cunt . He didn’t lynch him , nor was he likely to . Yes there’s history , but to move on we need to see things for what they actually are . The difference between that and Lukaku being called a fuckin fat cunt is what ? Lukaku is also black , but he’s been called fat so that’s not as bad then ?
What I’m trying to say is that any name calling is bad , and Raheem treated this incident with more maturity than half the people on this thread !
I don’t condone it at all , it just needs to be put into perspective , and football matches have always had all manner of abuse shouted from the terraces .
Whose perspective? The one of the guy shouting who thinks "it's just banter", or the guy on the receiving end who (more often than not) has heard the same crap in the context of "you're less than the rest of us" for longer than most here would care to have to deal with themselves...
My point being, why should Raheem Sterling's skin colour be the focus, rather than the fact that he plays for a rival side?
And my point is why should a players height , hair colour , weight or any other issue be the focus rather than the fact that he plays for a rival side ?
I have made it perfectly clear that I don’t condone any of the insults thrown at anyone . It’s all wrong , and I sure as hell don’t support racism at all .
It’s the perspective of the chants and taunts that all players endure . It’s an unfortunate part of the football culture .
I'm not having a go or accusing you of anything other than you're kinda missing the point...racist abuse hits on a deeper level than someone's hair colour, height, etc., and whether people would want to admit to it or not, deep down, those that do it, know that."Yes I understand that . | |||
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" I`m not saying your a bad person, I`m not saying your a racist, I`m just saying you should refrain from downplaying others negative experiences when you evidently have no personal experience of the problem in hand. As long as you do, especially with subjects like this, then you are inadvertently perpetuating the problem. No , I’m putting a realistic viewpoint across . It’s clear that you have way more personal experience in this and indeed all aspects of life , so I will leave you to it now . "Realistic in what sense? Tell me about the times you`ve been around active racism, or when you`ve been on the receiving end? How is someone who`s never experienced something in any form have a "realistic" view of anything? You seem to see things very logically, and you probably have degrees of empathy, but, you are not in an authoritative position to tell others experiencing it how to feel. I`m not going to go up to a woman suffering a bad menopause & say "well yeah, I fully understand, because I had a cold a few weeks back & I felt absolutely awful". "Oh, you`ve got cancer? Well, I once cut my finger, so I know EXACTLY where your coming from" Do you not see? Sometimes you need to just listen & not talk.. | |||
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"The thing for white people to note was his response. A young lad, surrounded by hateful looking and sounding middle aged white men and he just smiled: didn't get angry. Yes his attitude was brilliant and he should be congratulated, but there’s no excuse he shouldn’t be facing abuse like that in 21st century " The point is we do but are made to feel we have chips on our shoulders, playing the race card and it's pc bullshit. The only reason white people are "aghast" is because it was caught on camera, white, middle aged, normal looking men abusing a young black man at work. The only reaction my black family and friends made were along the lines, good lad for not going Eric Cantona on them. | |||
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"What I love when I see replies to topics like this, is all the people in places of the country where seeing a black person in the street is an unusual occurrence, who had no black people in their entire schools growing up, who can count the amount of times they've had deep conversations with black people on one hand or less, chiming in, with their Daily Mail, UKIP derived views on racism on the rest of us. And when I say I love it, what I mean it makes me sick.. I have a suggestion... If my description describes you, even vaguely, then keep your totally detached 3rd hand views to yourself. You simply aren't qualified to have any relevant points & you look like absolute bellends to everyone other than your equally monochrome peers. Learn when to close your mouth & listen, or, move the hell on to the next topic, in your blissful ignorance. Cheers " | |||
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"No this is a subject I feel needs discussion Back in the 70’s we thought we were enlightened and we weren’t we were racist yet we didn’t realise. I am so sorry for anyone offended by our ignorance We brits need to man up and hold our hands up high and say sorry. We were instrumental in slavery and extortion of the African people. How we did what we did to the innocent people of these nations is beyond me, I cringe at some of the things we did 40 yrs ago, it’s humiliating and highly embarrassing I don’t even think about black white or anything now, it’s just people!!!" | |||
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"The big problem is that football matches have always had , and will always have an element of hooliganism . This is another example of it , and although it was clearly racist , it’s no different to calling Peter Crouch a lanky bastard , or Juan Mata a short arse cunt . The fans will claim it’s normal banter , and anyone who attends the game will agree . The fact that it’s normal in this environment doesn’t make it right , but as Raheem said , he treated it with the contempt it warranted . It’s the press who create much of the issue every time . His example was perfect in showing why . A white player from his club who isn’t a first team player buys his Mum a house . The paper say he’s a great bloke . A black player , the same age and not a first team player , and the same paper highlights his colour , the fact he isn’t in the first team , and yet he has the money to buy a house , which was also for his mother but they didn’t say that ! Fortunately the rest of society seem to be way less confrontational with the insults and abuse , but football matches are very much way behind with racial , size , homophobic and all manner of other forms of verbal abuse . This incident should have been ignored , just as it was by Raheem when it happened . As it is we are all talking about it , and thus it will continue , instead of being yesterday’s chip paper . I disagree that this sort of thing should be ignored, sweeping it under the carpet has done nothing, in fact things are clearly worse because of this attitude. There is a whole world of difference between calling someone 'lanky' and abusing them because of the colour of his skin, if you can't recognise that then there's an issue What’s the difference between ‘lanky’ and ‘black’ then ? Both are used to be abusive , both are issues the recipient can do nothing about , and nor should they . I guess I must have an issue then , because I can’t see why one is any worse than the other . Both are offensive and uncalled for , but very commonly heard at football matches . Simple question - have you ever heard of anyone being lynched just for being lanky? "Spot on, | |||
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" What’s the difference between ‘lanky’ and ‘black’ then ? Both are used to be abusive , both are issues the recipient can do nothing about , and nor should they . I guess I must have an issue then , because I can’t see why one is any worse than the other . Both are offensive and uncalled for , but very commonly heard at football matches . Simple question - have you ever heard of anyone being lynched just for being lanky?
Oh yeah, the systematic lynching of lanky people right up until the 60`s..
Then there was that FBI Gingergate scandal, where the FBI systematically suppressed & ended the "Ginger Power" movement in the 70`s early 80`s..
Oh no, sorry, those things specific to Black people only, not gingers & "lankies".. "Lynching still happens particularly in the USA, its called police brutality. | |||
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"I see the thread is going the way of the majority of discussions about racism. As soon as it starts white people steer the conversation to how racism isn't actually that much of a big deal. I really can't be bothered to address the level of ignorance that thinks racist abuse is the same as being called 'lanky', so I'll just recommend the books 'Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race' by Reni Eddo-Lodge and 'White Fragility' by Robin Diangelo, for explorations of this 'actually racism isn't a problem' issue and many others. Exactly my point, look at the 100% of posters being white, all telling the world how, racism should be dealt with. Until white people learn to listen then there is no point discussing anything. Problem is they don't need to listen, we know it all already. If only....... My question to all movements.. is: What do you actually want? What is your plan to get there? It shouldn't be a movement, we need to rais our kids to respect everybody, and additionally only make a big deal when it's needed, making a big deal about everything, as while liberals absolutely love to do, lovers the actual effect when real issues occur. So constantly playing the race card is the same as the boy that cried wolf, not relating sterling to that as I haven't seen or heard it. But white liberals love playing the race card on behalf of the poor down trodden non whites, as this thread yet again proves. I don't even know what you are saying? Are you annoyed at the white guilt apologists like teamonkey and talkingstove?" PaRtly yes, and also suck of listening to white, people talking shite about something they don't understand and doesn't need discussing. | |||
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"If there's too much racism in football and you can't get rid of it, get rid of football instead or have televised-only games, no spectators. It's a bloody stupid game anyway. You're not a football fan so how can you say there is too much racism in football It happens just like anywhere else its nothing to do with football, Get rid of fans ? Pointless asking did you see the England game a few weeks ago without any fans, Fans make the atmosphere without it there would be no money in football and a pointless sport
Well, it's a pointless sport anyway, why flog a dead horse? And any racism is too much racism "Ridiculous comment. All sport is pointless, as are all man's pastimes. Stop trying to be so clever. I can guarantee whatever sport you do like is just as irrelevant, and probably to a higher percentage of the population. It's doesn't mKe people seem clever hating football, just out of touch. | |||
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"I've noticed some graffiti around with the tag "white trash" btw. These things escalate on both sides. yes it does, i went to a basically all black school and i had to listen to all kinds of racism against white people Racism in any form is wrong, hate breeds hate. And this white guilt message you push exacerbates things. Stop pointing the finger at me as part of the problem! I'm not wringing my hands in any form of culpability nor on behalf of anyone. I'm responsible for my own actions, no one else's. I do however think that there is an issue and it should be brought into the light. If you disagree with me for whatever reason, then that's your prerogative but don't try and assume my motives nor dismiss me through labels of politics. It's funny how you are defensive. I'm simply saying the same thing to you as you are saying to me. Don't assume anything because I'm the the dreaded "white male" and don't come at me with your white guilt apologist virtue signaling. Live your own life. I am thanks. I didn't come at you with anything, this is an important topic of discussion, however you choose to label me. I didn't start this thread to argue who has the right to comment and i certainly don't believe that you have to earn a voice in things. But then that's my belief " No it isn't the slightest bit important on a swinging site. Not even the tiniest little most miniscule bit important. | |||
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). Erm, we sent exactly the same application - word for word.
As a society, there’s a lot more we need to do and a lot of barriers we need to breakdown to change this. We may have become very modern in society with all our technology but our mindset is still old school.
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"I don’t think we do to be honest. Racism only becomes institutionalised because of the mindset of the individuals running that ‘institution’. And it’s true, unless you’ve experienced that form of racism, you really can’t comprehend or fully understand what happens, how it happens and how it feels. For example, we’ve applied for a job where me and a friend of mine (a Caucasian male) sent in the same application (to see if we get treated differently), with the same personal statement and answered everything exactly the same. He got an interview but I didn’t because my personal statement didn’t meet the criteria and I’m not who they’re looking for ( ). Erm, we sent exactly the same application - word for word.
As a society, there’s a lot more we need to do and a lot of barriers we need to breakdown to change this. We may have become very modern in society with all our technology but our mindset is still old school.
"I don't pretend to understand how it feels or to comprehend it, I don't presume to tell people how they must feel about it either. I do however think it's an important topic to be discussed in any area or part of life, yes that includes on a swinging site! | |||
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"As a white woman I've never had any racism directed at me. However I have friends, partners and family of all different skin colours. It's hard to see how people can be blinkered to the fact that racism is alive and kicking in our society. Pretty much every person of colour I know has experienced some form of racism - from everyday microaggressions to being attacked in the street, from being taken aside and questioned at the airport for no good reason to having to anglicise their name to be more 'appealing' on job applications. The list goes on. We should be listening to those who have first-hand experience of hate, even if it makes us feel uncomfortable, and stepping up to address it when we are able." I agree with you. However even broaching the subject seems to draw derogatory comments and derision from certain quarters. Nothing will change without action though and we all have our part to play | |||
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"The big problem is that football matches have always had , and will always have an element of hooliganism . This is another example of it , and although it was clearly racist , it’s no different to calling Peter Crouch a lanky bastard , or Juan Mata a short arse cunt . The fans will claim it’s normal banter , and anyone who attends the game will agree . The fact that it’s normal in this environment doesn’t make it right , but as Raheem said , he treated it with the contempt it warranted . It’s the press who create much of the issue every time . His example was perfect in showing why . A white player from his club who isn’t a first team player buys his Mum a house . The paper say he’s a great bloke . A black player , the same age and not a first team player , and the same paper highlights his colour , the fact he isn’t in the first team , and yet he has the money to buy a house , which was also for his mother but they didn’t say that ! Fortunately the rest of society seem to be way less confrontational with the insults and abuse , but football matches are very much way behind with racial , size , homophobic and all manner of other forms of verbal abuse . This incident should have been ignored , just as it was by Raheem when it happened . As it is we are all talking about it , and thus it will continue , instead of being yesterday’s chip paper . I disagree that this sort of thing should be ignored, sweeping it under the carpet has done nothing, in fact things are clearly worse because of this attitude. There is a whole world of difference between calling someone 'lanky' and abusing them because of the colour of his skin, if you can't recognise that then there's an issue" | |||
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" And my point is why should a players height , hair colour , weight or any other issue be the focus rather than the fact that he plays for a rival side ? I have made it perfectly clear that I don’t condone any of the insults thrown at anyone . It’s all wrong , and I sure as hell don’t support racism at all . It’s the perspective of the chants and taunts that all players endure . It’s an unfortunate part of the football culture . Jesus Christ almighty.. It would be a much better experience for you to ignore my posts . Just a thought ....." OMG! Lanky? Short arse? Realistic? For the love if God what are you people on? I’d share my experience as a Black Woman on Fab but you’d probably not understand ... | |||
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"As a white woman I've never had any racism directed at me. However I have friends, partners and family of all different skin colours. It's hard to see how people can be blinkered to the fact that racism is alive and kicking in our society. Pretty much every person of colour I know has experienced some form of racism - from everyday microaggressions to being attacked in the street, from being taken aside and questioned at the airport for no good reason to having to anglicise their name to be more 'appealing' on job applications. The list goes on. We should be listening to those who have first-hand experience of hate, even if it makes us feel uncomfortable, and stepping up to address it when we are able. I agree with you. However even broaching the subject seems to draw derogatory comments and derision from certain quarters. Nothing will change without action though and we all have our part to play" BLM has made you the enemy. Your opinion is unqualified. You are incapable of imagination or empathy | |||
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" What’s the difference between ‘lanky’ and ‘black’ then ? Both are used to be abusive , both are issues the recipient can do nothing about , and nor should they . I guess I must have an issue then , because I can’t see why one is any worse than the other . Both are offensive and uncalled for , but very commonly heard at football matches . Simple question - have you ever heard of anyone being lynched just for being lanky?
Oh yeah, the systematic lynching of lanky people right up until the 60`s..
Then there was that FBI Gingergate scandal, where the FBI systematically suppressed & ended the "Ginger Power" movement in the 70`s early 80`s..
Oh no, sorry, those things specific to Black people only, not gingers & "lankies"..
Lynching still happens particularly in the USA, its called police brutality. " | |||
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"As a white woman I've never had any racism directed at me. However I have friends, partners and family of all different skin colours. It's hard to see how people can be blinkered to the fact that racism is alive and kicking in our society. Pretty much every person of colour I know has experienced some form of racism - from everyday microaggressions to being attacked in the street, from being taken aside and questioned at the airport for no good reason to having to anglicise their name to be more 'appealing' on job applications. The list goes on. We should be listening to those who have first-hand experience of hate, even if it makes us feel uncomfortable, and stepping up to address it when we are able. I agree with you. However even broaching the subject seems to draw derogatory comments and derision from certain quarters. Nothing will change without action though and we all have our part to play BLM has made you the enemy. Your opinion is unqualified. You are incapable of imagination or empathy "You're trying your absolute best to berate and belittle me on everything that I post, dismissing me as Liberal or unknowing, neither of which make me the problem. How about instead of throwing scorn at me you answer your own 'hard questions'? Bring something constructive to the debate rather than dismissal | |||
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"As a white woman I've never had any racism directed at me. However I have friends, partners and family of all different skin colours. It's hard to see how people can be blinkered to the fact that racism is alive and kicking in our society. Pretty much every person of colour I know has experienced some form of racism - from everyday microaggressions to being attacked in the street, from being taken aside and questioned at the airport for no good reason to having to anglicise their name to be more 'appealing' on job applications. The list goes on. We should be listening to those who have first-hand experience of hate, even if it makes us feel uncomfortable, and stepping up to address it when we are able. I agree with you. However even broaching the subject seems to draw derogatory comments and derision from certain quarters. Nothing will change without action though and we all have our part to play BLM has made you the enemy. Your opinion is unqualified. You are incapable of imagination or empathy
You're trying your absolute best to berate and belittle me on everything that I post, dismissing me as Liberal or unknowing, neither of which make me the problem.
How about instead of throwing scorn at me you answer your own 'hard questions'? Bring something constructive to the debate rather than dismissal "I'm not - you are paranoid - I'm now ribbing the other side who despite your best intentions are excluding you because of your skin colour. I'm trying to show how divisive identity politics is. | |||
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"As a white woman I've never had any racism directed at me. However I have friends, partners and family of all different skin colours. It's hard to see how people can be blinkered to the fact that racism is alive and kicking in our society. Pretty much every person of colour I know has experienced some form of racism - from everyday microaggressions to being attacked in the street, from being taken aside and questioned at the airport for no good reason to having to anglicise their name to be more 'appealing' on job applications. The list goes on. We should be listening to those who have first-hand experience of hate, even if it makes us feel uncomfortable, and stepping up to address it when we are able. I agree with you. However even broaching the subject seems to draw derogatory comments and derision from certain quarters. Nothing will change without action though and we all have our part to play BLM has made you the enemy. Your opinion is unqualified. You are incapable of imagination or empathy
You're trying your absolute best to berate and belittle me on everything that I post, dismissing me as Liberal or unknowing, neither of which make me the problem.
How about instead of throwing scorn at me you answer your own 'hard questions'? Bring something constructive to the debate rather than dismissal
I'm not - you are paranoid - I'm now ribbing the other side who despite your best intentions are excluding you because of your skin colour.
I'm trying to show how divisive identity politics is. "Riiiight, so that's a "no" to my invite to bring something constructive to the discussion? | |||
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"Maybe everybody is just a bit bored ot the subject, especially when 99% of the respondents are white without a clue
Maybe i'll listen to Raheems points though, it's certainly raised a few eyebrows. And knowing what it's like out of the public eye I guess it's pretty bad in it. "Comments such as ‘everybody is a bit bored of the subject’ are part of the problem that keeps racism alive and kicking. It dismisses and trivialises the day to day experiences of POC. In effect, it silences us because people are ‘bored’ of hearing it. Unfortunately, we don’t have the privilege of not encountering racism on a daily basis. We too are ‘bored’ of this nasty deeply entrenched cancer that is so pervasive in society. We are ‘bored’ of not being heard. We are ‘bored' of having to explain and justify our existence and right to equality. With all due respect your comment is boring and insulting. As a person of colour I am sick to death of hearing people dismiss my lived experience because it doesn’t fit into your narrative. In the future please think about how damaging and harmful such comments are. I am really sorry that you are bored, but this subject is too important not to keep the conversation going. Open conversations are how we as people learn and in turn affect change. The Rupert Murdochs of the world are counting on your boredom in order to keep spreading and peddling their harmful cancer. Stay woke! | |||
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"Maybe everybody is just a bit bored ot the subject, especially when 99% of the respondents are white without a clue
Maybe i'll listen to Raheems points though, it's certainly raised a few eyebrows. And knowing what it's like out of the public eye I guess it's pretty bad in it.
Comments such as ‘everybody is a bit bored of the subject’ are part of the problem that keeps racism alive and kicking. It dismisses and trivialises the day to day experiences of POC. In effect, it silences us because people are ‘bored’ of hearing it.
Unfortunately, we don’t have the privilege of not encountering racism on a daily basis. We too are ‘bored’ of this nasty deeply entrenched cancer that is so pervasive in society. We are ‘bored’ of not being heard. We are ‘bored' of having to explain and justify our existence and right to equality.
With all due respect your comment is boring and insulting. As a person of colour I am sick to death of hearing people dismiss my lived experience because it doesn’t fit into your narrative. In the future please think about how damaging and harmful such comments are.
I am really sorry that you are bored, but this subject is too important not to keep the conversation going. Open conversations are how we as people learn and in turn affect change. The Rupert Murdochs of the world are counting on your boredom in order to keep spreading and peddling their harmful cancer.
Stay woke!"Any chance you'll answer my questions? | |||
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"Maybe everybody is just a bit bored ot the subject, especially when 99% of the respondents are white without a clue
Maybe i'll listen to Raheems points though, it's certainly raised a few eyebrows. And knowing what it's like out of the public eye I guess it's pretty bad in it.
Comments such as ‘everybody is a bit bored of the subject’ are part of the problem that keeps racism alive and kicking. It dismisses and trivialises the day to day experiences of POC. In effect, it silences us because people are ‘bored’ of hearing it.
Unfortunately, we don’t have the privilege of not encountering racism on a daily basis. We too are ‘bored’ of this nasty deeply entrenched cancer that is so pervasive in society. We are ‘bored’ of not being heard. We are ‘bored' of having to explain and justify our existence and right to equality.
With all due respect your comment is boring and insulting. As a person of colour I am sick to death of hearing people dismiss my lived experience because it doesn’t fit into your narrative. In the future please think about how damaging and harmful such comments are.
I am really sorry that you are bored, but this subject is too important not to keep the conversation going. Open conversations are how we as people learn and in turn affect change. The Rupert Murdochs of the world are counting on your boredom in order to keep spreading and peddling their harmful cancer.
Stay woke!"*effect change. | |||
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"Maybe everybody is just a bit bored ot the subject, especially when 99% of the respondents are white without a clue
Maybe i'll listen to Raheems points though, it's certainly raised a few eyebrows. And knowing what it's like out of the public eye I guess it's pretty bad in it.
Comments such as ‘everybody is a bit bored of the subject’ are part of the problem that keeps racism alive and kicking. It dismisses and trivialises the day to day experiences of POC. In effect, it silences us because people are ‘bored’ of hearing it.
Unfortunately, we don’t have the privilege of not encountering racism on a daily basis. We too are ‘bored’ of this nasty deeply entrenched cancer that is so pervasive in society. We are ‘bored’ of not being heard. We are ‘bored' of having to explain and justify our existence and right to equality.
With all due respect your comment is boring and insulting. As a person of colour I am sick to death of hearing people dismiss my lived experience because it doesn’t fit into your narrative. In the future please think about how damaging and harmful such comments are.
I am really sorry that you are bored, but this subject is too important not to keep the conversation going. Open conversations are how we as people learn and in turn affect change. The Rupert Murdochs of the world are counting on your boredom in order to keep spreading and peddling their harmful cancer.
Stay woke!"I agree with you. No I don't know what it's like, as I said in my OP I haven't experienced it so I can't speak from experience, but I do think that at the very least we need to be having the conversation | |||
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"Maybe everybody is just a bit bored ot the subject, especially when 99% of the respondents are white without a clue
Maybe i'll listen to Raheems points though, it's certainly raised a few eyebrows. And knowing what it's like out of the public eye I guess it's pretty bad in it.
Comments such as ‘everybody is a bit bored of the subject’ are part of the problem that keeps racism alive and kicking. It dismisses and trivialises the day to day experiences of POC. In effect, it silences us because people are ‘bored’ of hearing it.
Unfortunately, we don’t have the privilege of not encountering racism on a daily basis. We too are ‘bored’ of this nasty deeply entrenched cancer that is so pervasive in society. We are ‘bored’ of not being heard. We are ‘bored' of having to explain and justify our existence and right to equality.
With all due respect your comment is boring and insulting. As a person of colour I am sick to death of hearing people dismiss my lived experience because it doesn’t fit into your narrative. In the future please think about how damaging and harmful such comments are.
I am really sorry that you are bored, but this subject is too important not to keep the conversation going. Open conversations are how we as people learn and in turn affect change. The Rupert Murdochs of the world are counting on your boredom in order to keep spreading and peddling their harmful cancer.
Stay woke!
Any chance you'll answer my questions?"Why don't you? It's not a case of being angry, it's about being constructive and part of the solution rather than an agitator and dismissor | |||
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"Maybe everybody is just a bit bored ot the subject, especially when 99% of the respondents are white without a clue
Maybe i'll listen to Raheems points though, it's certainly raised a few eyebrows. And knowing what it's like out of the public eye I guess it's pretty bad in it.
Comments such as ‘everybody is a bit bored of the subject’ are part of the problem that keeps racism alive and kicking. It dismisses and trivialises the day to day experiences of POC. In effect, it silences us because people are ‘bored’ of hearing it.
Unfortunately, we don’t have the privilege of not encountering racism on a daily basis. We too are ‘bored’ of this nasty deeply entrenched cancer that is so pervasive in society. We are ‘bored’ of not being heard. We are ‘bored' of having to explain and justify our existence and right to equality.
With all due respect your comment is boring and insulting. As a person of colour I am sick to death of hearing people dismiss my lived experience because it doesn’t fit into your narrative. In the future please think about how damaging and harmful such comments are.
I am really sorry that you are bored, but this subject is too important not to keep the conversation going. Open conversations are how we as people learn and in turn affect change. The Rupert Murdochs of the world are counting on your boredom in order to keep spreading and peddling their harmful cancer.
Stay woke!
Any chance you'll answer my questions?
Why don't you? It's not a case of being angry, it's about being constructive and part of the solution rather than an agitator and dismissor"I don't have the answers....or the lived experience. If you want social change, planning and design are more effective that "having the conversation" where everyone puts in their generic 2cents or a landscape where kneejerk reactions are commonplace (look at the madness in the gender inequality sphere around such harmless things as words like manhole while the real stubborn problems still fester). I have some ideas I might add later but for now I want to force people to think about what they want first and then how to get it. BLM is just another form of divisonary populist noise and I want society to go places with reasoning and not emotion. | |||
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" And my point is why should a players height , hair colour , weight or any other issue be the focus rather than the fact that he plays for a rival side ? I have made it perfectly clear that I don’t condone any of the insults thrown at anyone . It’s all wrong , and I sure as hell don’t support racism at all . It’s the perspective of the chants and taunts that all players endure . It’s an unfortunate part of the football culture . Jesus Christ almighty.. It would be a much better experience for you to ignore my posts . Just a thought ..... OMG! Lanky? Short arse? Realistic? For the love if God what are you people on? I’d share my experience as a Black Woman on Fab but you’d probably not understand ... " Tell that to the ‘ short arse ‘ kid that cries itself to sleep after being bullied at school , or the ‘ lanky ‘ kid that constantly gets picked on , Yes that’s realistic too believe it or not . The point I have made is that any form of abuse is unacceptable and it’s not something that only happens to black people . It shouldn’t be a case of sitting there saying I have it worse than ...... It’s all wrong and in the case of the op , it’s happened systemically in football crowds for decades . It should all stop . And yes the racial abuse is wrong on a deeper historical level , but the recipient of any abuse should be afforded as much empathy . That’s all I’m saying , and I’m not ‘ on ‘ anything . | |||
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"Institutionalised racism can often be confused with prejudice. I'm not saying it doesn't exist but it's definitely not as common as people may think" | |||
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