FabSwingers.com forum: How do you stop the breeders?

By *he_original_polo OP Woman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Any of us could find ourselves needing the support of the welfare system and I appreciate the struggle of many who are trying their best to change their circumstances and get back into employment.

However, there are people in our society who take the piss….. have a peep at the Jeremy Kyle show.

I personally do not think it is right that people with no work ethic feel it is just fine and dandy to pop out kids like Smarties when they have no means of providing for them. They seemingly ‘expect’ the system to bump up their benefits every time the umbilical cord is cut.

Why the fuck should I pay for them?

The quandary though is…. what can be done to deter the breeders?

How do you penalise the irresponsible without penalising the innocent? I say innocent as for the first few years the rug rats will be.

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By *iss scarlettWoman
over a year ago

in scarlettsville ,west lothian

Any of us could find ourselves needing the support of the welfare system and I appreciate the struggle of many who are trying their best to change their circumstances and get back into employment.

However, there are people in our society who take the piss….. have a peep at the Jeremy Kyle show.

Why the fuck should I pay for them?

The quandary though is…. what can be done to deter the breeders?

How do you penalise the irresponsible without penalising the innocent? I say innocent as for the first few years the rug rats will be.

I thin k we should limit the number of children that they can get benefits of any kind for. Whether its income support ,child credits or family allowance , there should be a limit.

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By *irtydanMan
over a year ago

Blackpool

Any of us could find ourselves needing the support of the welfare system and I appreciate the struggle of many who are trying their best to change their circumstances and get back into employment.

However, there are people in our society who take the piss….. have a peep at the Jeremy Kyle show.

Why the fuck should I pay for them?

The quandary though is…. what can be done to deter the breeders?

How do you penalise the irresponsible without penalising the innocent? I say innocent as for the first few years the rug rats will be.

"
i cant agree more

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By *adja_lazloCouple
over a year ago

Solihull

its all wrong, we waited years before we thought we could affored children and waited for the right time,m our right time was when our business was looking good, BUT, nothing will change, guess what the breeders will quote, "its my human rights ....."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Indeed, limit the amount of benefit you can have for children. We can argue about how many, 3-4-5. So you can only get up to say 3 children.

But as always it would cause a problem if it's announced and is applied retrospective. It should be announced from now on, less opposition to the idea.

Also, if your in social housing you should be made to move up and down the housing according to your family size and same sex children can share (within age reason).

And the cherry on the cake. Those who do live in social housing, the rent should be the household wage percentage (so if you have mum, dad, and two grown ups all working) they pay say 30% of their income and not a token amount. Would encourage people to move onto private housing, freeing up for those who can't move...

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

Any of us could find ourselves needing the support of the welfare system and I appreciate the struggle of many who are trying their best to change their circumstances and get back into employment.

However, there are people in our society who take the piss….. have a peep at the Jeremy Kyle show.

Why the fuck should I pay for them?

The quandary though is…. what can be done to deter the breeders?

How do you penalise the irresponsible without penalising the innocent? I say innocent as for the first few years the rug rats will be.

been reading swift over Christmas have we...i hope so

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I was on the tram home after working 10 hours to get my work done so I meet my deadlines. Where there was a couple with 2 children clearly on benefits as they mentioned that.... 1 of the children was I would say about 3 and there was a child in a pushchair who would I say was about 10 months. They then proceeded to say to the 3 year old what would you like a brother or sister in your mum's belly??

They then went on to say why do we have children and the mum turns around as says very seriously because we are bored!!!!!!!!!!!.

At that point I just thought why oh why do I bother going to work as my taxes go to these families who think that they deserve a hand out everytime they have a child!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unfortunately there are scum everywhere. The country is pretty much a joke with regards to work ethic, respect and values. national service would wake this lot up a bit. failing that a Eugenics programme.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you should limit the number of kids to 2 that you can claim for.

I also think that those claiming should be made to do manual work, clean the streets whatever. To many people don't bother getting a job because they won't be any better off. Sure some jobs aren't that good and pay the same as they'd claim but its a job none the less!!! Yes some people need the welfare system but there's to many playing it. How many people would turn down a job in McDonalds because they wouldn't be any better off if their alternative was to walk the streets picking up litter or other jobs to help clean up this country?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There was a women on a breakfast programme over Christmas complaining she wasn't getting enough saying why should her children do without. She said she had job offers but didn't take them because she wouldn't have been any better off! It's not the point of being better off! It's the point of actually knowing you earnt your money instead of sitting on your arse complaing you don't get enough!

I don't begrudge help to anyone who needs it but get some self respect! What sort of example does it set??

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By *isscheekychopsWoman
over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"There was a women on a breakfast programme over Christmas complaining she wasn't getting enough saying why should her children do without. She said she had job offers but didn't take them because she wouldn't have been any better off! It's not the point of being better off! It's the point of actually knowing you earnt your money instead of sitting on your arse complaing you don't get enough!

I don't begrudge help to anyone who needs it but get some self respect! What sort of example does it set??"

I am afraid its every walk of life that does it... People come from aboard just to claim bebefits from us because we have such a slack system. There are men and women who are serving our country on less wage than what some people get on benefits!!

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By *osiephillCouple
over a year ago

The High Peak

been reading swift over Christmas have we...i hope so

Excellent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/12/11 12:12:56]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The day central government stops treating it as a highly paid gravy train (for the many)... The "breeding" will stop...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The day central government stops treating it as a highly paid gravy train (for the many)... The "breeding" will stop...

We've no need to drastically increase the population levels in this country, so maybe a limitation on the number of children any family can have would be a damn good idea - and enforce it.

Wolf

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By *-and-KCouple
over a year ago

Back of Beyond

Its not a limit on kids that is the issue.

It's a radical tightening up of the welfare system that is required, not only for UK born residents, but even more so for the welfare immigrants that are so p

igate over the last few years.

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By *aGaGagging for itCouple
over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne

Some good views expressed in this thread which are probably held by all of the decent people in this country. The reality is that there are so many exploiting the system now that to change policy would mean that the government would lose the next election as so many would lose out and vote against them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They don't bother me either way..like others i suspect their life is far from perfect..i really don't factor them into my thinking

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

been reading swift over Christmas have we...i hope so

Excellent."

Thank you...sometimes the tumble rolling through makes me think i am talking to myself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sterilisation? It's a bit harsh mind.

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By *am sampsonMan
over a year ago

cwmbran

"They don't bother me either way..like others i suspect their life is far from perfect..i really don't factor them into my thinking"

If life is so good on benefits anyone is free to join them - I suspect there will be no takers here tho

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is no simple solution.

You could stop benefits, but then you leave families and especially the children who have done nothing wrong at risk and many children put into care/fostered etc and the system cant cope as it is for that.

The Chinese system of only allowing benefits for 1 child is a great idea in principle, however most children there end up being slaves to money and human rights hardly exist there.

Good luck with that one.. if you know the answer you should get into politics and or lobby your MP.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not the kids fault. In some instances it's second and third generation kids having kids. Poorly educated by their parents and the education system they only emulate their parents and others in their estates.

It's the parents that are irresponsible or depressed in a system that has let them down so we perceive them to be taking advantage of the same system that gave them no hope.

People who work in social services are let down by the system too; there is no point in taking the kids away from their parents because we can't forcibly have them adopted and foster care is stretched to the limit.

There is no easy answer to making the disenfranchised youth in our society feel valued enough to add value in our society. They need to be given work that matters to our society and trained in how to develop a life through work and then build a family. There is so much undone work wise why can't welfare money be invested in development programmes in conjunction with charities. Maybe even giving our youth opportunities to help build broken communities at home and abroad after floods, storms, etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think as the world is so over populated everyone should only be allowed to have one child like they do in china.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What about the people who had children when they were both working full time and could afford them and a good life style including 2 cars and 2 holidays a year BUT now find themselves as a single parent, made redundant, struggleing to find work and liveing in a rented house as theirs was repossesed?????

What do we do with them??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What about the people who had children when they were both working full time and could afford them and a good life style including 2 cars and 2 holidays a year BUT now find themselves as a single parent, made redundant, struggleing to find work and liveing in a rented house as theirs was repossesed?????

What do we do with them??

We dont do anything with them, thats completely different.

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By *am sampsonMan
over a year ago

cwmbran

"I think as the world is so over populated everyone should only be allowed to have one child like they do in china. "

In large parts of the world where there is no welfare state or old age pensions - having large families (particularly as many will die in childhood) is a necessity to ensure that older people or disabled siblings are looked after when they can no longer work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...But as always it would cause a problem if it's announced and is applied retrospective.

From October 1st 2012, nine months hence, all children born shall be the sole responsibility of the parents and close family... As in my parents day.

So from today... Plan carefully... In these times we could all lose our income...

There are of course "some" exceptions...

But I have "human rights" not to have to pay for a free passage for the cynical "breeders" which the current system is supporting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...But as always it would cause a problem if it's announced and is applied retrospective.

From October 1st 2012, nine months hence, all children born shall be the sole responsibility of the parents and close family... As in my parents day.

So from today... Plan carefully... In these times we could all lose our income...

There are of course "some" exceptions...

But I have "human rights" not to have to pay for a free passage for the cynical "breeders" which the current system is supporting."

Why o why do the masses get wound up by the few. These "breeders" as they have been lablled number a very small percetage of the population.

Jeremy Kylie however needs to be sent to mars!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ahhhh so its Thursday

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By *lubPartyPeepsCouple
over a year ago

London

At the current rate that we are expending the worlds resources, it has 40 years left before we begin to run out of numerous things that cannot be replaced. Food for thought.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

just reading threads it's really sad when words like sterilization and eugenics get mentioned,some people need to read some history books.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ahhhh so its Thursday

ooh i never thought of that

i thought it was just cos i'd gotten outta bed with a bag on

now i have reason

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fab Swingers Forum brought to you in association with The Daily Mail and Jeremy Kyle.

Oh dear.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...Why o why do the masses get wound up by the few. These "breeders" as they have been lablled number a very small percetage of the population.

Jeremy Kylie however needs to be sent to mars!"

It isnt the masses, it is a large percentage who are carrying the swelling ranks of the "cynical"....

The masses are not the Jeremy Kyle audiences... And if he were sent to Mars, another lowest common denominator show would take its place...;-)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also labelling people as breeders ? there not animals,what ever you opinion of them.

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By *am sampsonMan
over a year ago

cwmbran

"At the current rate that we are expending the worlds resources, it has 40 years left before we begin to run out of numerous things that cannot be replaced. Food for thought."

30 years ago it was said that we would run out of oil by now and we would be an an ice age - man has the intelligence to survive

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ahhhh so its Thursday

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'll make this my last Forum post as frankly I find the ill cheer and pomposity on here wearying.

The likes of Jeremy Kyle (a programme described by no less an authority than a judge as being "for people with nothing better to do") pick on certain elements of society because they are unusual and it makes a story.

One thing I can never fathom is how the so-called pillars of society who graft their arses off to pay for the great unwashed have time to be posting on here.

Be kind people. You may need kindness yourselves one day.

Uber und aus.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

"just reading threads it's really sad when words like sterilization and eugenics get mentioned,some people need to read some history books."

Very true, it's scary how people can say this with (apparent) sincerity.

There are issues with benefit seekers just like there are issues with every other class of society. Fascism isnt exactly the way to go to solve them!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Benefits should not go up if you have another child while already claiming.

After all if you have a baby while working your wage doesn't go up if anything it goes down if you factor in child care costs.I was on benefits many years ago and would never even have thought about expanding my family while in that situation.

Some people know how to work the benefits system and it needs to be stopped.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'll make this my last Forum post as frankly I find the ill cheer and pomposity on here wearying.

One thing I can never fathom is how the so-called pillars of society who graft their arses off to pay for the great unwashed have time to be posting on here.

Be kind people. You may need kindness yourselves one day.

Uber und aus."

We do get time off sometimes you know

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

IQ tests.... everyone should have to take an IQ test. The lower the IQ the more kids you must have

Eventually we'll all be so feck'n thick that none of us will care anyway.

We're heading that way anyhoo, so I say speed it up!

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By *he_original_polo OP Woman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

been reading swift over Christmas have we...i hope so

Excellent.

Thank you...sometimes the tumble rolling through makes me think i am talking to myself

May be you should explain what swift is and a few more might understand.

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By *he_original_polo OP Woman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

OK... so those who suggested putting a limit on the number of kids.... what happens if:

They just keep breeding? Who does cutting the benefit really harm?

Does having a limit of 2 or 3 not also send out a message it's OK to have a few more if you have only got one?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I thin k we should limit the number of children that they can get benefits of any kind for. Whether its income support ,child credits or family allowance , there should be a limit.

There is kinda... as wheter you have 3 or more kids you get the same on many benefits.. Same on CSA... they only allow you an allowance for 3 kids max with the kids at home with you... when taking into account how much you can pay.

Cali x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK... so those who suggested putting a limit on the number of kids.... what happens if:

They just keep breeding? Who does cutting the benefit really harm?

Does having a limit of 2 or 3 not also send out a message it's OK to have a few more if you have only got one?

I think people would think twice about having another child if they realised they would have to struggle along on the same money.Just the same as people with jobs have to do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think as the world is so over populated everyone should only be allowed to have one child like they do in china. "

I dont agree with it in china..and I certainly wouldnt here.. but then as I have 6 kids, am one of 7, mother was one of 14, dad one of 10..

I would say that..

We cant start controlling reproduction... as once we start it will be only the wealthy that have kids.After all, having kids is our basic human function.

Cali

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By * times sexyCouple
over a year ago

Staffs

labour created the welfare system to create a "bedrock" of voters to underpin their future vote base. the tories traditionally stood against this for the opposite reasons (obviously) However now the system contains the majority block vote (inc new arrivals into the UK) and BOTh parties need thios vote to win power , hence the unwillingness to tackle the matter. *(it would be political suicide and turkeys dont vote for xmas do they)

the situation facing us is much like the one that faced germany in the 20s and 30s and gave rise to the nazi party and the horrendous results that followed as hitler made everyone but white, blonde aryans the scapegoat and we all know what happened next. Nobody wants the current system we have its shot to peices but europe , no maybe even the world is in a very dangerous place right now and cool clear heads are needed rather than fingerpointing and scapegoating. Remember it wasnt the unemplyed or benefit seekers that riuned europe and tghe usa it was the BANKERS and greed . Some of tghe comments on here directed at fellow people are at best ill informed and posible uneducated in recent history of what happens when people turn on the defencless and easy to blame.

Ive been to both Anne Franks house, worked behind the iron curtain in the 80s and worked in china. beleive me you dont want any of those systems. Be careful what you wish for . the rich stay rich, the middle class are tomorrows poor. Nobody benefits from victimisation.

And no im not a right on do gooder i also resent paying over 40% tax and NI plus indirect taxation uneccesarlily im just someone who has seen the nasty underbelly of the world in person.

Dont join the baying mob its what HM Govt wants to deflect the truth from themselves that they fucked up big time and sold everything we had including the umbrella we had for a rainy day.

Be happy lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree with limiting the number of children people can claim for, but on the flip side of that, these very same people will still have children, meaning these new born babies would go unfed while their idiotic parents get rat arsed on cheap booze and shagging and havin

its not the children's fault, its the parents fault.

I think perhaps if the government achieved an agreement with a major retailer to have a food token system, whereby ONLY food and clothes can be bought not booze or fags, it would greatly limit what this scum can do with their benefits

then its not seen as money making scheme.

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By * times sexyCouple
over a year ago

Staffs

ps dont beleive all the crap you are fed abpout china. its in their interest to swell the population. mass population = cheap labour = cheap consumer goods that most people on here buy then dcry why weve giot 3 mill unemplyed . do the maths

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Some good views expressed in this thread which are probably held by all of the decent people in this country. "

Guess i must now be classed as a not decent person then?

Some of the words used are disgusting tbh and the people saying such things as drowning and eugenics should be ashamed of themselves..

yes the system needs sorting out but to talk about children being 'scum'... FFS

guess what the tax system also needs sorting out so that TNC's pay their way also and the super rich dont hide their wealth abroad and dont pay their way..

oh and mr murdoch and his company pay little or no tax either..

a mature debate by all means yes but for a minute i thought i had logged onto Fascist.com..

Funny old world when people on a site with a 'liberated' outlook on one aspect can sound like the same people who sat and planned the mass murder of other innocents...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OK... so those who suggested putting a limit on the number of kids.... what happens if:

They just keep breeding? Who does cutting the benefit really harm?

Long shot... but would it help if, instead of 'cash benefits' on top for each child, there was perhaps a 'coupon' type of thing going on. There are some parents out there who use the cash on things that really have nothing to do with 'benefitting' the child. So if they could only use the coupons on neccesities like heating/food/childrens clothing, then even if the 'bill' wasn't greatly reduced, people footing the bill would at least not feel they were being so duped, and that the child did benefit.

Also, in Sweden (I think) adverts on the telly have very strict rules, they are not allowed to aim daytime advertising at kids... even normal ads cannot use cute animation that may appeal to kids. This way the pressure is off for parents feeling they have to spend, spend, spend in order to be a 'good parent'

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By *all-Eddies QosCouple
over a year ago

wirral

What do we do with them??

"
totally agree. I had 4 children with my ex, he worked full time and i worked full time and had a part time job too. I claimed nothing, worked my arse off, took 2 weeks holiday and had my baby rather than mat leave. Lost out on many "firsts" with my kids so that i could pay my way. Now my partner walked out after 12 and a half years, and i still worked for 8 months after he left until i basically cracked up. Now i am on income support, have lost my home and i am renting a 3 bed flat. I am not one of these single parents with a widescreen tv in each room, i dont have games consoles all over and my kids dont have lots of material things. I paid loads of tax, as did my ex. Why shouldn't i claim money i am entitled to....id had my kids when working, why shouldn't i get child benefit for all of them. Id love to go back to work.....but i am really struggling on benefits why would i make my self even poorer by taking a job where id be worse off. I understand that the person posting this isn't really aiming at people in my situation, but by targeting people on benefits, you dont out the people who need it honestly and who are just taking the piss! Xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"just reading threads it's really sad when words like sterilization and eugenics get mentioned,some people need to read some history books."
I was thinking the same thing here after reading this .... Hitler comes to mind .....

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By *riendly foeWoman
over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

"just reading threads it's really sad when words like sterilization and eugenics get mentioned,some people need to read some history books. I was thinking the same thing here after reading this .... Hitler comes to mind .....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The creation of the Welfare State, however noble it's original intentions were, has been a spectacular failure in terms of helping those in genuine need, and has instead provided a vehicle for millions of people to claim benefits from the state to which they are not entitled. Successive Labour governments (I'm not speaking as a Tory here, just making an observation) have purported the idea that an attack on the welfare system is an attack on hard working families, and they've used it as a way of propping up core Labour policy of giving the working class anything they want because that's who they're supposed to be representing. What the Labour Party have forgotten that when you are elected to govern you must govern ALL classes fairly, and the Conservatives would do well to heed that lesson too. It helps nobody to dish out endless support to those who would have to go out and work to make ends meet if the reliance on the benefit culture they've become accustomed to was withdrawn. It's time to scrap the welfare system altogether and instead issue food/fuel/care vouchers to those really in genuine need, and I think opening up the childcare system to give companies tax breaks if they set up nurseries for their workers would go a long way in getting people back into work.

Clearly something has to change and why not be radical about it and do it in a way that benefits business, families and government finances alike.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the coupon idea is great, just before christmas was in local shop the girl in front of me used coupons to buy milk and then went on to spend money on 40cigs and 8 bottles of cider , just made me think if she can afford that then she could have afforded milk and no I am not saying people shouldnt have treats oh I know what I meant

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a product of the welfare state, I do find the talk of eugenics and all that bunk to be rather insulting. I had free school dinners, free uniform and my mother depended on the family allowance. Why do people concentrate on the minority and forget the majority who struggle on

There are people on million of pounds a year out of this country and contribute nothing. What about dealing with those rich private sector scroungers.

My radical solution to this would be that everybody gets state benefit (say what you currently call your tax free income)from 18, you can sit on your arse, or use it to make something of yourself, but you get no more.

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By *uirkygirlCouple
over a year ago

Quirkyville

Do what they do in China to limit the amount of children someone can have.....

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By * times sexyCouple
over a year ago

Staffs

i was at business at a very high level. UK plc is a busted flush. The only way out is to reduce the salaries of those working (yes ALL) ti finance more people back into work and reduce our costs. At the moment we are having to slash jobs to keep costs under control; but this is just feeding the fire , ie more unemployed more on benefits. its a vicious circle. we are competing globally but not on an even pitch . its not good for those out of work and its not looking good for those in work either. many of the people on here writing in this thread will face harsh reaities soon with many losing their jobs.remember what you wrote when that happens and you need help. thats not pessimistic its a fact. China is taking over by economic means . keeping costs artifivially low and buying up the most affected counties debt so locking them in a trading partners. the big danger is that they will alienate and isolate USA and that spells big trouble . I fear a major conflict in the not too distant future. generally war is the outcome of this sort of problem. google australia usa naval bases and youll see the sabre rattling has already began !!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do what they do in China to limit the amount of children someone can have....."

The 1-child rule in China only applies to rural areas and families are not imprisoned for breaking that rule - they are taxed heavily if they do though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would wonder how many people slating people get tax credits.. as you have to earn a lot not to get them..

what about child benefit???

I get both of those.. and carers allowance because one of my children is very disabled.. However, if I were to foster a child with similar disabilities I would be paid £285 a week to have her.. Yet because its my own daughter.. I recieve £55...

There is logic there somewhere I am sure.

Coupons they have tried.. you now get milk and friut vouchers but most shops will actually make a profit off it... Ie say a milk voucher is worth £2.10 they will allow the person £1.50 in cash value... So they could spend it on what they liked...

the thing is now that benefits are at a level that its impossible to come off benefits... as its just not possible for many.

Cali x

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By * times sexyCouple
over a year ago

Staffs

"Some good views expressed in this thread which are probably held by all of the decent people in this country.

Guess i must now be classed as a not decent person then?

Some of the words used are disgusting tbh and the people saying such things as drowning and eugenics should be ashamed of themselves..

yes the system needs sorting out but to talk about children being 'scum'... FFS

guess what the tax system also needs sorting out so that TNC's pay their way also and the super rich dont hide their wealth abroad and dont pay their way..

oh and mr murdoch and his company pay little or no tax either..

a mature debate by all means yes but for a minute i thought i had logged onto Fascist.com..

Funny old world when people on a site with a 'liberated' outlook on one aspect can sound like the same people who sat and planned the mass murder of other innocents... "

my thoughts exactly ,, some people never learn or maybe they are just writing this fascist rubbish for effect

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"... I fear a major conflict in the not too distant future. generally war is the outcome of this sort of problem. google australia usa naval bases and youll see the sabre rattling has already began !!

I've long held the belief that countries start wars as a way of trimming the surplus population. They do it under the altruistic banner of seeking to fight injustice. I find it hard to believe that reasoned, educated men and women cannot sit down together and find a non-violent solution to international conflicts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who's to decide who is surplus, is a rich man, rich because her deserves it or is he just lucky and actually getting in the way of poorer men, who would create much more wealth.

In WWII there was a great exodus of upper class and management into the army, result British Industry was ultra efficient. I've been working over Xmas, no management, result 30% increase in output, not to mention a better working atmosphere.

You may be right, war may be the only solution.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

" I find it hard to believe that reasoned, educated men and women cannot sit down together and find a non-violent solution to international conflicts."

Sadly agree..

Big business eg. arms corporations have a place to play also..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" I find it hard to believe that reasoned, educated men and women cannot sit down together and find a non-violent solution to international conflicts.

Sadly agree..

Big business eg. arms corporations have a place to play also.."

S'pose they gotta test them new rockets n guns in a live situation somewhere's huh?

Is there a nasty little regime in the middle east somewhere that needs a kicking?

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By *lackMetalMan
over a year ago

Centre

What do we do with them??

totally agree. I had 4 children with my ex, he worked full time and i worked full time and had a part time job too. I claimed nothing, worked my arse off, took 2 weeks holiday and had my baby rather than mat leave. Lost out on many "firsts" with my kids so that i could pay my way. Now my partner walked out after 12 and a half years, and i still worked for 8 months after he left until i basically cracked up. Now i am on income support, have lost my home and i am renting a 3 bed flat. I am not one of these single parents with a widescreen tv in each room, i dont have games consoles all over and my kids dont have lots of material things. I paid loads of tax, as did my ex. Why shouldn't i claim money i am entitled to....id had my kids when working, why shouldn't i get child benefit for all of them. Id love to go back to work.....but i am really struggling on benefits why would i make my self even poorer by taking a job where id be worse off. I understand that the person posting this isn't really aiming at people in my situation, but by targeting people on benefits, you dont out the people who need it honestly and who are just taking the piss! Xx "

Damn, that must have been hard on you. It's people like you that I really respect. And it's people like you that the system is designed to protect.

The TRUTH is the system is broken. The culprit in all of this is the Government and the way this country is governed. In my opinion, the answer is education and strict policies that are fair and simple which protects the citizens of this country first and foremost. We should rethink the basis on joining Europe and re-examine that. Majority of the foreigners claiming benefits are from Europe. The Government has to:

1. Tighten labour laws - 70% of jobs created should go to British citizens.

2. Strengthen education - revamp the curriculum and place emphasis on degrees that create value and enrich a country like engineering, science and manufacturing. Think Germany on point; Create polytechnics for those that want a practical trade and don't want to go to university; spend a lot of money on education.

3. Immigration - go the way of Canada and Australia. Immigration should be tailored to a specific job and a specific area. Immigrants should have degrees and qualifications that we are short of and should have a command of the English Language; European immigrants should not be exempt from this.

4. Abolish the two party tier political system which is dysfunctional and outdated. How can a small well to do majority who, in most cases, have generous inheritances and never struggled run a country with problems. It takes someone seasoned by life to solve problems. The current political system is like an exclusive gentleman's club which restricts real problem solvers from getting in.

5. Parenting - this is something a government cannot fix. Society should place emphasis on manners, hardwork and integrity. These are so lacking and kids exhibit lack of manners, education and basic common sense everywhere. Parents, bring your children up right, educate them and let them read books. It is inexcusable that in this day and age people do not know much about the world they live in beyond Spain, Greece and Turkey, where we holiday.

My tuppence on the post...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What do we do with them??

Im aiming it at ME.... its MY situation x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cant feed em, dont breed em. simples.

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By *lackMetalMan
over a year ago

Centre

"i was at business at a very high level. UK plc is a busted flush. The only way out is to reduce the salaries of those working (yes ALL) ti finance more people back into work and reduce our costs. At the moment we are having to slash jobs to keep costs under control; but this is just feeding the fire , ie more unemployed more on benefits. its a vicious circle. we are competing globally but not on an even pitch . its not good for those out of work and its not looking good for those in work either. many of the people on here writing in this thread will face harsh reaities soon with many losing their jobs.remember what you wrote when that happens and you need help. thats not pessimistic its a fact. China is taking over by economic means . keeping costs artifivially low and buying up the most affected counties debt so locking them in a trading partners. the big danger is that they will alienate and isolate USA and that spells big trouble . I fear a major conflict in the not too distant future. generally war is the outcome of this sort of problem. google australia usa naval bases and youll see the sabre rattling has already began !!

Yeah, can see a major conflict happening in the future. Power is shifting from the West to the East. China is currently doing the same things the West did after the Second World War to succeed - education is extremely important to them and in China, English is being studied in schools. Manufacturing and industry is also key to them and they are building and modernizing at an alarming rate.

All this time, we have been complacent and lazy. We have sold out all our good assets off.

Racism, intolerance, poverty and unemployment are at an all-time high and I hope we have learnt something from history. All this forms a potent mix for a repeat f something we are all too familiar with... Nazism, Hitler, WWII

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Indeed, limit the amount of benefit you can have for children. We can argue about how many, 3-4-5. So you can only get up to say 3 children.

But as always it would cause a problem if it's announced and is applied retrospective. It should be announced from now on, less opposition to the idea.

Also, if your in social housing you should be made to move up and down the housing according to your family size and same sex children can share (within age reason).

That I do think is grossly unfair for those that work to be encouraged to move to private rented properties as the rents are astronomical. I work for a housing association and I would think that those who are on benefits but may have a shortfall to pay, will end up not paying it therefore the rent arrears would increase. When one of their kids gets to claim their own benefits, they don't pay anything towards their 'keep' and often leave it to the parents to pay who cannot afford to.

Also the government are I understand bringing in a scheme to encourage those to downsize once kids have moved out but that can be difficult where someone has lived in the house for so long, it has become their home. Here's another thought, when companies build houses, they build very few 4-5 bed properties, so up sizing can be difficult and involves a long wait.

And new build properties rent is a lot higher than older properties, in effect almost the same per month as a private rent so your idea of trying to encourage people to move wouldn't make sense in that case

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think the coupon idea is great, just before christmas was in local shop the girl in front of me used coupons to buy milk and then went on to spend money on 40cigs and 8 bottles of cider , just made me think if she can afford that then she could have afforded milk and no I am not saying people shouldnt have treats oh I know what I meant

Agree wholeheartedly, why should they get milk tokens if they can afford booze and fags, clearly they are getting far too much benefit these days and allowed to con the system too much

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The situation many of you have a problem with, regarding these 'breeders', is that they get money handed out to them which they, in our view, have in no way earnt.

The sort of parents who pop one out every year to continue a work free life, am i correct?

You can't simply put a limit on the amount of children you can claim benefit for in a lifetime. For example people like Lancs-bbw, who have paid thousands of pounds into the system over the years should be supported in their time of need.

The limit should be proportionate to how much you've paid in over your working life. I'm not saying no tax paid - no children; as some people do end up having a kid at a young age through no fault of their own. But having a second or maybe third child without any form of effort looking for a job shouldn't result in a weekly payout.

I still believe the coupon system can work, but it should be re-vamped. The government should work in liason with some of the countries top essential needs providers (bread/milk/etc) and have these essentials delivered to the doors of those who recieve them.

The companies are paid directly from the government the rrp price of the items delivered so they dont make a silly amount of profit off them like they currently do, and the profit goes towards paying for more jobs; as the companies/government will need more workers to do simple deliveries/paperwork/preparation of those goods.

This way 'milk coupons' and the like aren't mis-used to buy cigs/alcohol/chocolate/etc so the tax payer doesnt feel as ripped-off either

yeah there's some holes in my plan as always, but its just an idea

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm sure some would like them to have tokens for everthing

why not go the whole hog and make them wear stripey pyjamas with the appropriate patch on em

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

"I think you should limit the number of kids to 2 that you can claim for.

I also think that those claiming should be made to do manual work, clean the streets whatever.

What about the hard working non shirkers that are already cleaning the streets etc.Do you want to give their jobs away? Maybe we can give them your job.

That would suit Camerons big idea where we can get folk to work for nothing and throw the ones who do want to wotk on the scrapheap.

I agree something must be done we have a relative in his 30s who has never worked and has 6 kids by 4 women who do you think is paying to raise them? certainly not him.

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By *innamon!Woman
over a year ago

no matter

Any of us could find ourselves needing the support of the welfare system and I appreciate the struggle of many who are trying their best to change their circumstances and get back into employment.

However, there are people in our society who take the piss….. have a peep at the Jeremy Kyle show.

Why the fuck should I pay for them?

The quandary though is…. what can be done to deter the breeders?

How do you penalise the irresponsible without penalising the innocent? I say innocent as for the first few years the rug rats will be.

I thin k we should limit the number of children that they can get benefits of any kind for. Whether its income support ,child credits or family allowance , there should be a limit.

benefits only on first child..make them have subsequant kids adopted or support them entirely alone..Or make the parents of youngsters support them . Dont give them council housing make them stay at home with their parents.

hmmm yes harsh! .. Put them all on bromide from age 12.. remove desire altogether till they can afford to support a family.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

then its not seen as money making scheme."

but what about those on benefits like disability ones. im a single mum on these and dont drink or smoke. its not fair to class everyone the same. some end up on benefits due to redunancy.

believe me its not a bed of roses yes my rents paid but my gas,elec and water i pay. i buy all the shop brands and only whats needed. i can never understand how people afford to drink,smoke and run a car on benefits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The maximum benefit paid should be 10% less than the minimum wage, so that no one could be better off not working.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

scum "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I got out of my ivory tower the other day and actually reluctantly took a train with the working class people I try and avoid. And I happened to overhear the middle aged woman telling her female friend (or lover? One never knows these days!) that she was a greedy girl. And I thought if she is she has one hell of a metabolism as she was a petite sized 10 at the most. But she went on to explain, and I cannot believe I'm saying this, that she likes, LIKES, eating random men's spermal emissions and more at parties and the like! I almost vomitted onto the train carriage floor I can tell you! God gave us his precious seed for procreation not perverted recreation! I think Hitler was right in sending these sexual deviants, along with the gays, to concentration camps where they should be forcibly cured of any deviation.

Not nice as a section of society being demonised is it? Sure there are things in society that we don't all agree with and not everything is perfect but the moral outrage from some of you is driven by the paranoia of the right wing media which overplays the case for it's own political ends. A couple of people above justified their benefits, rightly, and people agreed but until we hear everyone's case let's not tar the vast majority of those in need of help with the same brush. And yes I acknowledge there are cases of second and third generations of parents who have never worked but are we they failing us or are we failing them? Maybe a little of both and until we lookat this pragmatically rather than dogmatically it's never going to be addressed.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

There will always be people who take the easy way out. Removing or reducing their benefits will not change anything, and might make things worse.

Signed

a breeder

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Did you vote labour?

There's the problem.

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By *ruitWoman
over a year ago

near kings lynn

I am not currentlin paid work but work over 20 hours a week on average doing voluntary work.

Wont go into my exact details but am hoping to return to paid work now kids are healthy and dont need me there for their emotional well being so much.

I struggle to run a car but manage with lots of help.from parents and am in private rented house and have to top up my rent as wasnt entitled to any council properties at all in the area where my family is.

I think those breeding or off work should be made to do voluntary work to pay back and balance it out more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No excuses but there has to be more jobs that fit around mums, children and schools and placements flexible working hours and free childcare every six weeks there is a school holiday and that does not include teacher training or if your child is off sick. A lot of offices/companies now only use temp agencies or short term contracts so they no longer have to pay holiday, sick or pensions. Its easier said than done but when people get more from the social and housing benefits than they do working a regular week then there is something seriously wrong with the system it is not that most people are lazy it is that there is not enough incentives.

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By *erkshireMan123Man
over a year ago

Devizes

hi _ruit.. Im impressed, and totally agree btw.

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By *landPeggyCouple
over a year ago

Holland !

It is in the very nature of the capitalist mode of production to overwork some workers while keeping the rest as a reserve army of unemployed paupers.

— Marx, Theory of Surplus Value

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By *layfullsamMan
over a year ago

Solihull

employ people to go around with 2 bricks to crush there balls, win win creating employment and stopping breeders

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The maximum benefit paid should be 10% less than the minimum wage, so that no one could be better off not working.

Have you ever had to have for your evening meal whatever your kids have left of theirs?

Trust me, its no fun at all and certainly not easy managing on hand outs

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By *BW38jWoman
over a year ago

Dudley/Telford

"Do what they do in China to limit the amount of children someone can have....."

and then we would have the alledged removal of 1 baby when twins are born and put in an orphanage or worse the birth of a little girl means they are left and from day 1 fed rice rather than milk and surprise they die. now they have more than 2 men to every women in china big mistake.

i agree something needs to be done in some circumstances. i do not have a problem in the welfare system looking after the weak and vulnerable but in the area i work we are now in the situation of 4th generation unemployed meaning kids left school recently their parents had them early 90s never worked , their parents born early 70's never worked and their parents early 50's never worked. common denominator? the welfare state introduced!

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By *ushroom7Man
over a year ago

Bradford

Controversial, but :

Give half the total "benefits" to the natural fathers whoever and wherever they may be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Controversial, but :

Give half the total "benefits" to the natural fathers whoever and wherever they may be.

i wouldnt spit on my sons dad if he was on fire. i was given the choice abortion or he was leaving. he got told close the door on your way out. it took 17yrs to get csa from him.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think you should limit the number of kids to 2 that you can claim for.

I also think that those claiming should be made to do manual work, clean the streets whatever.

What about the hard working non shirkers that are already cleaning the streets etc.Do you want to give their jobs away? Maybe we can give them your job.

That would suit Camerons big idea where we can get folk to work for nothing and throw the ones who do want to wotk on the scrapheap.

I agree something must be done we have a relative in his 30s who has never worked and has 6 kids by 4 women who do you think is paying to raise them? certainly not him.

Did i say they could replace the people who are currently cleaning the streets? No I didn't. Lets face it, Britains streets are far from clean! I'm sure the people who are currently employed to clean the streets and do other such jobs wouldn't say no to a little help! All I was saying is that instead of paying these people to sit at home doing nothing and turning down jobs because they'll "be no better off", why not get them out cleaning up the streets because as good a job as the street cleaners do they're limited in numbers and can only do so much!

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

nice one polo.

it's only an idea,but we could start taxing banks,in proportion with their profits.

wallah,we could have another 6 jeremy kyle shows.

people taking advantage of the welfare system,cost the country a tiny fraction,by comparison with tax evasion,by banks.

society has many problems,but wouldn't it make more sense,to tackle the big problem first.

it's so easy to make the weak and uneducated,scapegoats for all our ills.

much better to be brave,and target the culpable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think you should limit the number of kids to 2 that you can claim for.

I also think that those claiming should be made to do manual work, clean the streets whatever.

What about the hard working non shirkers that are already cleaning the streets etc.Do you want to give their jobs away? Maybe we can give them your job.

That would suit Camerons big idea where we can get folk to work for nothing and throw the ones who do want to wotk on the scrapheap.

I agree something must be done we have a relative in his 30s who has never worked and has 6 kids by 4 women who do you think is paying to raise them? certainly not him.

Would they then be 'employed' and therefore on the same wages as the street cleaners

or will the council use it as an excuse to lay off the street cleaners therefore making them..er..benefit claimants?

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

We moved back to N.Ireland when I found out I was pregnant. Neither of us had jobs to come back to but I wanted to be near family. After 2 yrs home and still no job and 2 small children, we decided whoever got a job 1st would take it and the other would be at home for the children. I got a job 1st and to be honest at the time once we paid rent we where only about £6 a week better off. However we looked at the long time future of things, I have worked my way up to manageress and am glad I stuck it out. We both come from families where we were brought up if you wanted something you worked for it.

It was a hard long struggle, esp when you see other people boasting about how much better off they are than you when they sit on their asses all day and dont want to work.

There should be a limit to how many children you can claim for.

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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"society has many problems,but wouldn't it make more sense,to tackle the big problem first."

I so agree with this. Vodafone was let off an £8 billion tax evasion! That would have helped the deficit a tad. But nope, its all the fault of those grasping job dodgers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think you should limit the number of kids to 2 that you can claim for.

I also think that those claiming should be made to do manual work, clean the streets whatever.

What about the hard working non shirkers that are already cleaning the streets etc.Do you want to give their jobs away? Maybe we can give them your job.

That would suit Camerons big idea where we can get folk to work for nothing and throw the ones who do want to wotk on the scrapheap.

I agree something must be done we have a relative in his 30s who has never worked and has 6 kids by 4 women who do you think is paying to raise them? certainly not him.

Would they then be 'employed' and therefore on the same wages as the street cleaners

or will the council use it as an excuse to lay off the street cleaners therefore making them..er..benefit claimants?"

No they wouldn't be employed would they. They'd be on benefits. All they'd be doing is being put to use instead of leaving them to sit at home watching Jeremy Kyle all day.

I'm guessing you are either employed as a street cleaner or know someone who is?

You know I'm not saying that they should be replaced, I never said that and never even incinuated anything like that.

I only used street cleaning as an example because first off Britains streets could be cleaner and secondly who likes picking up other lazy bastards rubbish? I'd think not many people. So add to that knowing that they're doing it just to get their Gyro I'd bet would give more people an insentive to take one of those jobs that wouldn't have been worth their while before!

I have no idea how much council workers/street cleaners get paid but I'd hope it was more than someone gets for being on the dole.