FabSwingers.com forum: Should health care be free

By *lem-H-Fandango OP Man
over a year ago

salisbury

For those who have become chronically ill through lifestyle choice?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

How are we defining lifestyle choice?

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By *ungscotsman26Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"For those who have become chronically ill through lifestyle choice?"

Yes I still think so because you don't know what could have happened to cause that lifestyle. For example they could need a transplant because they are an alcoholic. But something horrendous in their life could have triggered that.

I think it's amazing we have the nhs and we help whoever needs it. Would hate to see people suffer because they can't afford it.

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By *actilemale4uMan
over a year ago

London

YES

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Smokers have paid their fare share in tax throughout their smoking lives.

So I can see that side of it. I'm not justifying it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I find it galling, when I have to pay for people who have abused there bodies and it’s something that totally preventable. But how else are they going to pay and if they can’t what do you do with them ? Yes, it’s shit but what else can you do, so I guess we have to continue paying for the buggers.

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By *rsSBWoman
over a year ago

toy town

Don't worry clem. It's all going private healthcare. So just go bananas

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By *VineMan
over a year ago

The right place

"For those who have become chronically ill through lifestyle choice?"

Yes, sometimes it’s very difficult to know what effects lifestyle will have. E.g. Running can cause chronic joint issues.

Smoking and alcohol are heavily taxed to offset the health costs associated.

I still like ‘Free at the point of need’ philosophy of the NHS.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How are we defining lifestyle choice?

Smoking, obesity, eating junk etc I’m guessing. Not exercising. All preventable things.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Don't worry clem. It's all going private healthcare. So just go bananas

Nice tits

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it galling, when I have to pay for people who have abused there bodies and it’s something that totally preventable."

As stated though, in cases of smoking and drinking, etc, the tax is apart of the extra income, so they do pay extra. And yes, it should be "free" for all, once you start cutting people off for drinking or weighing a certain amount then what's stopping that from being adjusted down? How long before you yourself fall into the unfit for free healthcare bracket?

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Perhaps a subject for a new thread but should Gym's be free or heavily subsidised?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"How are we defining lifestyle choice?

Smoking, obesity, eating junk etc I’m guessing. Not exercising. All preventable things. "

How about risky sport or the people whose lifestyle was chosen for them e.g. kids brought up on junk?

Where is the line drawn?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Perhaps a subject for a new thread but should Gym's be free or heavily subsidised?"

I still wouldn't go.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"I find it galling, when I have to pay for people who have abused there bodies and it’s something that totally preventable. But how else are they going to pay and if they can’t what do you do with them ? Yes, it’s shit but what else can you do, so I guess we have to continue paying for the buggers. "

Do you drive? Let’s imagine you cause an accident and you need a hospital stay?

What’s the difference? It would be your fault, so you should pay?

No, the amazing thing about the NHS is it does not judge people who come through the door. It just tries to help them irrespective of how they got there.

That is a wonderful concept, the envy of many around the world. But it is too socialist an idea for those who view society through the politics of self-interest.

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By *an_LexaCouple
over a year ago

Sunderland

Totally agree with _ungscotsman26.

Each and everyone of us are individuals and what one person sees as a lifestyle choice may seem as no choice at all to another but a solution, a way out an only option or many other things.

Currently the healthcare system as it stands is there for us all and I’m very happy with that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How are we defining lifestyle choice?

Smoking, obesity, eating junk etc I’m guessing. Not exercising. All preventable things.

How about risky sport or the people whose lifestyle was chosen for them e.g. kids brought up on junk?

Where is the line drawn?"

Absolutely, some people don’t have a total say in their lifestyle. Plus, how do we identify whether that illness was caused by eg smoking or some workplace issue or living in a polluted city etc?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Instinct says no when you see how careless some are, but then you stop and reflect and ask what's the option?

Let them die because they can't afford it? Punish them?

Modern society and they way we live is pretty pants, and contributes to mental health issues, physical problems etc.

I kind of hope were progressing as a species and are able to help those less fortunate than ourselves, as it's the right thing to do. We're not there yet, but hey let's try?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unfortunately a totally preventable life style choice will crash the NHS and in the not to distant future

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How are we defining lifestyle choice?

Smoking, obesity, eating junk etc I’m guessing. Not exercising. All preventable things.

How about risky sport or the people whose lifestyle was chosen for them e.g. kids brought up on junk?

Where is the line drawn?"

Draw the line, at smoking, drinking, obesity etc. Playing sport or any aerobic activities should be encouraged, injuries are just an unfortunate by product.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How are we defining lifestyle choice?

Smoking, obesity, eating junk etc I’m guessing. Not exercising. All preventable things. "

I snapped my criciate ligament playing football. NHS rebuilt my knee and thank god the did. Playing football was an avoidable lifestyle choice for recreation so who gets to decide what is valid?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes but one of the main problems is people from overseas not being billed.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

You can take private insurance for playing sport. It's very expensive.

Most of us already pay insurance through yearly subs but that covers you breaking a car window with a wayward shot.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes but one of the main problems is people from overseas not being billed."

But they do get billed? Unless they are from the EU where there is a reciprocal arrangement

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By *ighland gentlemanMan
over a year ago

Ardgay

Dentistry is not free on the NHS, even though decay and gum disease are both easily preventable

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"How are we defining lifestyle choice?

Smoking, obesity, eating junk etc I’m guessing. Not exercising. All preventable things.

How about risky sport or the people whose lifestyle was chosen for them e.g. kids brought up on junk?

Where is the line drawn?

Draw the line, at smoking, drinking, obesity etc. Playing sport or any aerobic activities should be encouraged, injuries are just an unfortunate by product. "

Who makes the decisions? If someone smoked then gave up how long after they give up do they become eligible for free treatment for smoking related disease? Will diseases affecting children due to their parents lifestyle be treated free?

Its an ethical minefield.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No. They should take out private health care. If they have money to pay for their addictions, they can pay to take care of themselves.

I've seen the damage obesity, drugs and alcohol addictions can do on those people and their families.

It's not nice to see your loved ones destroying themselves. A 54 year old shouldn't have heart issues and be in a wheelchair due to obesity.

Kids shouldn't have to grow up without a parent due to their selfish drug habits.

Families shouldn't have to go without a grandparent and parent due to their alcohol addiction killing them.

All them above were warned and had help thrown at them by so many doctors and other professionals. They threw / through it back at the doctors!

The NHS shouldn't have to struggle due to selfish people suffering from preventable illnesses. As such, people are dying due to being turned away, due to lack of funds within the NHS. Cancer victims forced to travel aboard for treatment which is too expensive for the NHS to provide. The list goes on.

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

A few points

1. It's not free everyone pays for it.

2. The current government is deliberately bringing about the break up of the NHS which post Brexit will be sold off to American Corporations. Google for IFT, Liam Fox and Daniel Hannan. That was why Brexit was engineered by neocon organisations like Atlantic Bridge.

3. Joe Public hasn't got a fecking clue as to what is going on, as they are deliberately distracted by TV reality shows, celebrity culture, a controlled media in a dumbing down that was forecast many years ago by the great Carl Sagan

“I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...

The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance”

Wake up people they want you arguing amongst yourselves as to wheteher this person or that person should be entitled to use the NHS etc. If you're busy doing that you aren't looking at the bigger picture and the 'long game' that is being played by the elites.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes but one of the main problems is people from overseas not being billed.

But they do get billed? Unless they are from the EU where there is a reciprocal arrangement "

They often don't pay the bill though. If they don't pay, there are no consequences, so they don't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How are we defining lifestyle choice?

Smoking, obesity, eating junk etc I’m guessing. Not exercising. All preventable things.

How about risky sport or the people whose lifestyle was chosen for them e.g. kids brought up on junk?

Where is the line drawn?

Draw the line, at smoking, drinking, obesity etc. Playing sport or any aerobic activities should be encouraged, injuries are just an unfortunate by product.

Its an ethical minefield."

That’s true, therefore that’s why they get away with it, because it’s such a grey area. Still doesn’t make it easier to swallow that we’ve got to pay for these feckless layabouts.

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By *pmsldCouple
over a year ago

kettering

It should stay free.. however there should always be limits in place e.g. alcoholic given new liver for a second chance if found to be abusing it again then they shouldnt be allowed another chance if they were to need another. Same rule can apply to many other things aswell

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

No it should not. Most the people being reckless are pure white trash who don't pay anything remotely close in tax, to what their treatment costs. They tend to breed the most as well, we need to let evolution do its job.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How are we defining lifestyle choice?

Smoking, obesity, eating junk etc I’m guessing. Not exercising. All preventable things.

How about risky sport or the people whose lifestyle was chosen for them e.g. kids brought up on junk?

Where is the line drawn?

Draw the line, at smoking, drinking, obesity etc. Playing sport or any aerobic activities should be encouraged, injuries are just an unfortunate by product. "

What about people with eating disorders ? Victims of crime who turn to drugs or alcohol. Self harm victims?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Still doesn’t make it easier to swallow that we’ve got to pay for these feckless layabouts. "

Again, ignoring the fact that additional taxes from said products means they pay MORE than you do towards the NHS.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Perhaps a subject for a new thread but should Gym's be free or heavily subsidised?"

Now that would be a good idea

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The people we are talking about,are usually the people that have contributed least and have taken the most. Let’s not pretend otherwise, not saying all, but let’s face it, they will be the majority. It’s totally flawed and Ill still recent paying for these people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

who cares?

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By *VineMan
over a year ago

The right place

"No it should not. Most the people being reckless are pure white trash who don't pay anything remotely close in tax, to what their treatment costs. They tend to breed the most as well, we need to let evolution do its job. "

That doesn’t make sense!

Once you’ve got to the age you can reproduce evolution has no effect. Evolution will not solve this. You’re usually smarter than that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Still doesn’t make it easier to swallow that we’ve got to pay for these feckless layabouts.

Again, ignoring the fact that additional taxes from said products means they pay MORE than you do towards the NHS. "

You’re presuming they all have worked to pay these taxes and are not on the dole.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not Free though ..it paid for via taxes on income and taxes on other things

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The people we are talking about,are usually the people that have contributed least and have taken the most. Let’s not pretend otherwise, not saying all, but let’s face it, they will be the majority. It’s totally flawed and Ill still recent paying for these people. "

Oh I get it, you're a walking tory talking post. Next you'll be telling us about how benefit cheats are ruining the system.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How are we defining lifestyle choice?

Smoking, obesity, eating junk etc I’m guessing. Not exercising. All preventable things.

How about risky sport or the people whose lifestyle was chosen for them e.g. kids brought up on junk?

Where is the line drawn?

Draw the line, at smoking, drinking, obesity etc. Playing sport or any aerobic activities should be encouraged, injuries are just an unfortunate by product.

What about people with eating disorders ? Victims of crime who turn to drugs or alcohol. Self harm victims? "

Like I said it’s a grey area and we will continue to pay for people who have given nothing and taken everything.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you drive? Let’s imagine you cause an accident and you need a hospital stay?

What’s the difference? It would be your fault, so you should pay?

No, the amazing thing about the NHS is it does not judge people who come through the door. It just tries to help them irrespective of how they got there.

That is a wonderful concept, the envy of many around the world. But it is too socialist an idea for those who view society through the politics of self-interest."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For those who have become chronically ill through lifestyle choice?"

Yes. Absolutely.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

That doesn’t make sense!

Once you’ve got to the age you can reproduce evolution has no effect. Evolution will not solve this. You’re usually smarter than that. "

When the untermensch are being enabled to replicate their genes, that is indeed a problem for the process of natural selection.

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By *VineMan
over a year ago

The right place

Oh I get it, you're a walking tory talking post. Next you'll be telling us about how benefit cheats are ruining the system.

Yes! What about the billions of pounds of tax avoidance by the very rich that makes the benefit system look like small beer. It’s those greedy bastards that we should be angry with.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I doubt very much that your tax liability would be reduced by the government just because we all had to buy ever increasing health care premiums .... you'd just end up paying more

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

Oh I get it, you're a walking tory talking post. Next you'll be telling us about how benefit cheats are ruining the system.

Yes! What about the billions of pounds of tax avoidance by the very rich that makes the benefit system look like small beer. It’s those greedy bastards that we should be angry with. "

As if rich people use the NHS

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By *VineMan
over a year ago

The right place

"I doubt very much that your tax liability would be reduced by the government just because we all had to buy ever increasing health care premiums .... you'd just end up paying more"

Exactly, the cost of health care in the USA is a lot higher than here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

which local a&e department do rich people get rushed to then?

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

Visitors from msny non EU countries have to pay a mandatory nhs insurance fee if they are going to stay more than a very short period. Eg. Overseas students. If they don't pay the fee, several hundred pounds i believe, they don't get a visa. The fee applies even if they never see a doctor here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh I get it, you're a walking tory talking post. Next you'll be telling us about how benefit cheats are ruining the system.

I don’t have an affiliation with an political party, I dislike them equally for different reasons. It says something when you can’t have a discussion without using triggered phrases. I’ll tick off your buzz word check list, I’m sure you’ve got a few more in your locker waiting to go .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

it's the politics of jealousy yet again. people being jealous of some non-specific group called 'they' who are accused of getting something undeservedly ... if the moaning made people feel better then that would be ok .... but it never does

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well between the age of 16 to 30 my job required me being fit, active, of decent BMI, have good cardio, cardio way beyond most ‘gym fit’ people.

And the diet, was apauling, alcohol on camp and when based overseas was diet cheep, ciggerets were cheepish back then and places like sovereign base areas even cheeper.

My body’s fucked. My joints are wrecked from long hours in the cold and wet, I was 20 before I saw gortex on issue.

Now let’s look at the effect of carrying a Bergen for miles packed with a load of shit half of which I’m never gonna use.

Antiquated comms, radio batteries like house bricks.

Body armour. Helmets (with big flappy annoying visors for NI)

Sleeping out in weather most sheep would cry about.

I deserve free BUPA.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"For those who have become chronically ill through lifestyle choice?"

Yes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, it should.

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

Of course we should continue to help those in need regardless of their lifestyle choice but not just in providing healthcare when things go wrong, but by providing education that prevent them making those choices in the first place.

As others have pointed out there are no end of lifestyle choices that people make that could lead to needing the services of the NHS, all of them unnecessary in terms of being actually needed - where do you draw the line?

Take swinging for example, an activity that is a lifestyle choice that increases the risk of sexually transmitted diseases that require NHS treatment, and an activity undertaken by people from all walks of life - should we be refused treatment because we knew of the risks?

As for those suggesting that withdrawing that treatment brings about "natural selection" amongst the lower classes - perhaps you'd be better off in Berlin in the 1930s!! Smoking, alcoholism and drug addiction are activities undertaken by all walks of life from the poor to the very rich so that's an absolutely ridiculous statement!!

Healthcare on the NHS was introduced to help all those that needed it, without judgement, and should continue to do so - although more funding should be put into helping people avoid making those lifestyle choices that can lead to illness in the first place, even though I acknowledge there are some who just can't be helped in that regard, but the fact that there are significantly less smokers now due to the awareness campaigns down the years is an indication that it can work.

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By *northernsoulMan
over a year ago

Manchester

Yes, free regardless. You can't judge a 'lifestyle choice' which is subjective in itself - there's usually an underlying reason for that... so perhaps more funding needs to be put into mental health? (Full disclosure: there's no 'perhaps' about that.)

What I do object to is abuse of the NHS. By the politicians who are flogging off slices of it to their mates to run privately, and the very same mates who avoid paying corporation tax and then go on to sue the NHS when things don't go their way (hello, Sir Richard Branson, you beardy twat).

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Of course we should continue to help those in need regardless of their lifestyle choice but not just in providing healthcare when things go wrong, but by providing education that prevent them making those choices in the first place.

I do wonder how many would have regular sexual health checks if it was £100 a time for swingers.

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By *ighland gentlemanMan
over a year ago

Ardgay

"Well between the age of 16 to 30 my job required me being fit, active, of decent BMI, have good cardio, cardio way beyond most ‘gym fit’ people.

And the diet, was apauling, alcohol on camp and when based overseas was diet cheep, ciggerets were cheepish back then and places like sovereign base areas even cheeper.

My body’s fucked. My joints are wrecked from long hours in the cold and wet, I was 20 before I saw gortex on issue.

Now let’s look at the effect of carrying a Bergen for miles packed with a load of shit half of which I’m never gonna use.

Antiquated comms, radio batteries like house bricks.

Body armour. Helmets (with big flappy annoying visors for NI)

Sleeping out in weather most sheep would cry about.

I deserve free BUPA.

Whilst never touching a yellow handbag?

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"Yes, free regardless. You can't judge a 'lifestyle choice' which is subjective in itself - there's usually an underlying reason for that... so perhaps more funding needs to be put into mental health? (Full disclosure: there's no 'perhaps' about that.)

Of course you can judge a lifestyle choice

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you were to refuse free healthcare, based on the resulting illnesses and conditions caused by life style...........

You’d be paying for your STI treatment and possibly be buying those super expensive AIDs meds out your own pocket, mr swinger an Mrs swinger.

Just saying. Durex ain’t 100%

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By *northernsoulMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"Of course you can judge a lifestyle choice

Of course, you can judge if you really want to, but maybe consider the underlying reasons. Things are never black and white.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you were to refuse free healthcare based on life style choices, a lot of body builders would be out of pocket for all the popped disks and detached muscles etc ...

Just saying

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By *ighland gentlemanMan
over a year ago

Ardgay

"which local a&e department do rich people get rushed to then?

Whichever NHS one is closest.

Most private medicine is elective, ie not emergency.

When things go wrong in private hospitals, the patient is transferred to an NHS one which has far more facilities to deal with it.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"Of course you can judge a lifestyle choice

Of course, you can judge if you really want to, but maybe consider the underlying reasons. Things are never black and white."

True but I'm not really interested in them to be honest. It makes no difference to me whether my money is paying for a selfish person or an idiot to indulge.

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By *northernsoulMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"If you were to refuse free healthcare based on life style choices, a lot of body builders would be out of pocket for all the popped disks and detached muscles etc ...

Just saying

And plenty of other professions, too. As soon as you start a job with a high risk factor of injury, does that mean you've made a 'lifestyle choice'? Tell that to the police, nurses, firefighters, labourers, builders ...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That doesn’t make sense!

Once you’ve got to the age you can reproduce evolution has no effect. Evolution will not solve this. You’re usually smarter than that.

When the untermensch are being enabled to replicate their genes, that is indeed a problem for the process of natural selection. "

Yes, poor people should be sneared at and be a cause of revulsion because they aren’t wealthy. And having the nerve to reproduce, do they have no shame?

And of course being poor is genetic so if they could just be wiped out then ‘poor’ wouldn’t happen any more.

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By *northernsoulMan
over a year ago

Manchester

Is having a child a 'lifestyle choice'? If so, how selfish of you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you were to refuse free healthcare based on life style choices, a lot of body builders would be out of pocket for all the popped disks and detached muscles etc ...

Just saying

Don’t recall the careers office being to forwards about fucked knees, ankles and backs when they signed me up.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It says something when you can’t have a discussion without using triggered phrases. I’ll tick off your buzz word check list, I’m sure you’ve got a few more in your locker waiting to go . "

Its hardly a discussion when you ignore the evidence and keep pushing bs as fact that just so happens to be the same lies touted from certain parties. But no, you do you and believe those pointing out your bs are just "triggered"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

That doesn’t make sense!

Once you’ve got to the age you can reproduce evolution has no effect. Evolution will not solve this. You’re usually smarter than that.

When the untermensch are being enabled to replicate their genes, that is indeed a problem for the process of natural selection.

Yes, poor people should be sneared at and be a cause of revulsion because they aren’t wealthy. And having the nerve to reproduce, do they have no shame?

And of course being poor is genetic so if they could just be wiped out then ‘poor’ wouldn’t happen any more.

Jeez I'm not talking about wiping them out, don't get so extreme. Someone has to clean my toilet for me

Go watch an American documentary called "idiocracy" and you'll see what I'm worried about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lifestyle choices also means longer living and a much bigger drain on the NHS as a result.

The question isn't about 'free' NHS. It's not free and never has been. It's an insurance based system where we all pay in. Some benefit more from it than others do.

The question about its survival is maybe we need to be paying more for it. Rethink the business model of a managerial heavy system, increase the percentage of 'workers', cary over unused money to next fiscal year or ability to reallocate money where more needed rather than the current method of spending left over millions on replacing equipment, buildings, and other things unnecessarily because of some rule that says if you don't spend it you loose it next near.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That doesn’t make sense!

Once you’ve got to the age you can reproduce evolution has no effect. Evolution will not solve this. You’re usually smarter than that.

When the untermensch are being enabled to replicate their genes, that is indeed a problem for the process of natural selection.

Yes, poor people should be sneared at and be a cause of revulsion because they aren’t wealthy. And having the nerve to reproduce, do they have no shame?

And of course being poor is genetic so if they could just be wiped out then ‘poor’ wouldn’t happen any more.

Jeez I'm not talking about wiping them out, don't get so extreme. Someone has to clean my toilet for me

Go watch an American documentary called "idiocracy" and you'll see what I'm worried about. "

I’m more concerned about the billions of pounds being siphoned out of the country by wealthy parasites like Phillip Green, which would provide vast reserves for public services. The same man who wiped out the pensions of thousands of employees thereby directly creating poverty for people who had worked hard their whole lives. Blaming a handful of people at the bottom of the pile really is the lowest and laziest interpretation of economic inequality.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

That doesn’t make sense!

Once you’ve got to the age you can reproduce evolution has no effect. Evolution will not solve this. You’re usually smarter than that.

When the untermensch are being enabled to replicate their genes, that is indeed a problem for the process of natural selection.

Yes, poor people should be sneared at and be a cause of revulsion because they aren’t wealthy. And having the nerve to reproduce, do they have no shame?

And of course being poor is genetic so if they could just be wiped out then ‘poor’ wouldn’t happen any more.

Jeez I'm not talking about wiping them out, don't get so extreme. Someone has to clean my toilet for me

Go watch an American documentary called "idiocracy" and you'll see what I'm worried about.

Yawn. So every inexcusable abuse of the system by the white trash Jeremy Kyle gang is just going to be fobbed off with "look over there". That's as logical as saying that thieves shouldn't be punished because we have murderers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh I get it, you're a walking tory talking post. Next you'll be telling us about how benefit cheats are ruining the system.

Yes! What about the billions of pounds of tax avoidance by the very rich that makes the benefit system look like small beer. It’s those greedy bastards that we should be angry with. "

Now that’s a statement I totally agree with, if they chased the tax avoiders this country wouldn’t be in austerity and the nhs and schools etc would have lots more money. But that would upset a lot of the tories friends x

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By *igboobstCouple
over a year ago

barrow

Free healthcare doesn’t exist in this country we all pay for it through the taxes we pay from money we earn and again when we spend that money

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That doesn’t make sense!

Once you’ve got to the age you can reproduce evolution has no effect. Evolution will not solve this. You’re usually smarter than that.

When the untermensch are being enabled to replicate their genes, that is indeed a problem for the process of natural selection.

Yes, poor people should be sneared at and be a cause of revulsion because they aren’t wealthy. And having the nerve to reproduce, do they have no shame?

And of course being poor is genetic so if they could just be wiped out then ‘poor’ wouldn’t happen any more.

Jeez I'm not talking about wiping them out, don't get so extreme. Someone has to clean my toilet for me

Go watch an American documentary called "idiocracy" and you'll see what I'm worried about.

Yawn. Nope. Just providing perspective. The tiny minority of people abusing the system from the bottom is nothing in comparison.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes but one of the main problems is people from overseas not being billed.

But they do get billed? Unless they are from the EU where there is a reciprocal arrangement "
not all ways there's 1000s of case's every year where they walk in to A&E get treated and they just walk out the door.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It does appear that the whole country is dumbing down. I do wonder if anyone can actually control a modern society nowadays without being dictatorial. Ever since the end of the second world war and Empire, there has been desire for more personal freedom and choice, quite rightly too. But I also feel that this has brought about a less caring society, where some people salve their consciences by donating once a year to large charities.

Does anyone know how much money is brought in from the taxing of tobacco and alcohol? And how much of that revenue goes into the NHS?

Does the revenue taken from these sales cover the cost of medical care of problems brought about by consuming these products? And is it ethicall to tax these products so as to be able to treat people who regularly use them? and in so doing, the country legitimises the manufacture, distribution and sale of them?

This is a big problem, which won't go away,untill we educate children in schools right from the very start, and make well balanced school dinners compulsory for all children. Through education and taxes, we might be able to turn this around.

PS there is now evidence that some people are born, more prone to becoming addicts, than others. Also going off subject here, there is evidence to show that some people are born more open to, religious and superstitious views.

This just goes to show that humans are very complicated, and sometimes there won't be a quick fix to a problem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It says something when you can’t have a discussion without using triggered phrases. I’ll tick off your buzz word check list, I’m sure you’ve got a few more in your locker waiting to go .

Where can I find this ‘evidence’ that backs up your claim. I didn’t once state it as fact, it’s my opinion through observation, which I’m entitled to. But to be honest I think we should be more concerned about other issues, than the lazy free loaders who given nothing but taken the most. It’s small fry compared to other problems.

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By *VineMan
over a year ago

The right place

That doesn’t make sense!

Once you’ve got to the age you can reproduce evolution has no effect. Evolution will not solve this. You’re usually smarter than that.

When the untermensch are being enabled to replicate their genes, that is indeed a problem for the process of natural selection.

Yes, poor people should be sneared at and be a cause of revulsion because they aren’t wealthy. And having the nerve to reproduce, do they have no shame?

And of course being poor is genetic so if they could just be wiped out then ‘poor’ wouldn’t happen any more.

Jeez I'm not talking about wiping them out, don't get so extreme. Someone has to clean my toilet for me

Go watch an American documentary called "idiocracy" and you'll see what I'm worried about.

I think the comparison is more like throwing the book at kids stealing from a sweet shop to those that rob banks when it comes to the scale of things. Neither are desirable but let’s get the perspective right!

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Perhaps make risk catergories pay a premium.

However most people who have certain addictive lifestyles be that food drugs or smoking would probably have financial issues anyway.

People who undertake sports could possibly pay for their extra care but why then pick on them.

So the only workable way is to leave it as it is and work on the NHS. Some of their financial practices as with any other public sector are outrageous.

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By *tarbeckCouple
over a year ago

york

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

That doesn’t make sense!

Once you’ve got to the age you can reproduce evolution has no effect. Evolution will not solve this. You’re usually smarter than that.

When the untermensch are being enabled to replicate their genes, that is indeed a problem for the process of natural selection.

Yes, poor people should be sneared at and be a cause of revulsion because they aren’t wealthy. And having the nerve to reproduce, do they have no shame?

And of course being poor is genetic so if they could just be wiped out then ‘poor’ wouldn’t happen any more.

Jeez I'm not talking about wiping them out, don't get so extreme. Someone has to clean my toilet for me

Go watch an American documentary called "idiocracy" and you'll see what I'm worried about.

No it's just a distraction technique. This thread has its own subject and that's irrelevant. If you want to start a thread on tax evasion then I'll join it and explain why the analysis is wrong, but i don't want to derail this thread. So people should actually answer the question the OP asked instead of saying "look over there".

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By *abs..Woman
over a year ago

We pay for numbnuts on motorbikes, cyclists that are stupid, adrenaline junkies that think it’s wonderful until they end up crippled ... where would you draw the line? The difference between a smoker, drug addict, alcoholic and an obese person is that they may all be addictions but you can’t avoid food, you need it to survive it is a slightly different thing ... you can avoid the others.

Yes it should be free.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

not to mention those pesky children who have never paid into the system but get all this free stuff on the NHS

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"not to mention those pesky children who have never paid into the system but get all this free stuff on the NHS "

It's outrageous!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm trying to destroy my body just to get back at everyone I don't like who'll have to pay for it.

That'll show 'em.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's quite a paradox in that government financial research and analysis has deemed the cost of health care for the likes of drinkers/smokers is far out weighed by the taxes. Not only that the pension bill would be unsustainable if people didn't die young due to smoking/alcohol so they wanted be banned either or be grossly over taxed.

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By *xMFM3sumsxxWoman
over a year ago

SouthWest Lancashire

Preventative care is known to be best for patients, so why the fuck all this type of stuff has been cut so that hospitals are overloaded with more sick/iller people i do not know.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

"For those who have become chronically ill through lifestyle choice?"

Ignoring the moral side of this, then the practicality of it has to be taken into consideration.

If you introduce a testing mechanism before patients can get treatment then you're incurring significant costs in administrating that mechanism, not to mention legal fees when patients sue the NHS because a decision hasn't gone their way, for mistakes in paperwork that deny treatment, etc.

Whatever you might save in not treating some patients would quite possibly be wiped out, if not exceeded, by the effort of doing so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"not to mention those pesky children who have never paid into the system but get all this free stuff on the NHS "

Yes including those in the SCBU.

When talking lifestyle choices, extreme sports are a choice, as is driving at speed causing an accident. Having cosmetic surgery privately that goes wrong and so on. It’s not just being obese, smoking too much or drinking too much which I assume this is aimed at.

Let’s not look at why someone may be an alcoholic, the fact they have PTSD from serving in the armed forces and it’s their way to forget. Or the victim of abuse who hasn’t ever come to terms with it and uses alcohol as their prop to get through the day. It’s an illness not a lifestyle choice.

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By *ay2571Man
over a year ago

Edinburgh

It is a difficult one, where do you draw the line at personal responsibility?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm trying to destroy my body just to get back at everyone I don't like who'll have to pay for it.

That'll show 'em."

I’ll give you a hand destroying your body.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"It is a difficult one, where do you draw the line at personal responsibility?

Nowhere according to most views on this thread. Then act surprised when the system can't be funded. Then claim it would be if we just shook the magic money tree a bit harder.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is a difficult one, where do you draw the line at personal responsibility?

Nowhere according to most views on this thread. Then act surprised when the system can't be funded. Then claim it would be if we just shook the magic money tree a bit harder. "

I agree with the first sentence. The second two are pure speculation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’s not free. It’s just free at the point of use. We pay for it through our taxes for our whole working lives. Of course many in society make a career of the benefits system so it’s free for them and typically it is those people who use it the most.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Health care is more than dealing with cases as they occur, or at least should be.

Health care here is excellent and affordable. Crucially it's also backed by excellent education and facilities to be healthy. Taxes are a lot higher than the UK but well worth it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes but one of the main problems is people from overseas not being billed."

This isn't true, it's a side issue.

'Deliberate' use of the NHS—use by those who come here specifically to receive free treatment or who come for other reasons but take advantage of the system when they're here—is hard to quantify. It's thought to be very roughly between £110 million and £280 million a year.'Normal' use of the NHS—by foreign visitors who've ended up being treated while in England—is estimated to cost about £1.8 billion a year.The majority of these costs aren't currently charged for. Only about £500 million is thought to be recoverable or chargeable at the moment.'

See https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourists-how-much-do-they-cost-and-who-pays/

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"It is a difficult one, where do you draw the line at personal responsibility?

Nowhere according to most views on this thread. Then act surprised when the system can't be funded. Then claim it would be if we just shook the magic money tree a bit harder.

I agree with the first sentence. The second two are pure speculation."

It's not going to personally cost me anything to be wrong. You might regret your optimism.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It’s not free. It’s just free at the point of use. We pay for it through our taxes for our whole working lives. Of course many in society make a career of the benefits system so it’s free for them and typically it is those people who use it the most. "

What’s making a career of the benefits system? Never having worked at all? Worked at times, used benefits in between jobs? How many time before your career is benefits usage? Genuinely wondering, given it’s not an actual term that has a definition but appears to be thrown around a lot.

Which sources are we using, and what dates, for proof that a “career benefit user” (whatever your definition of this is) use the NHS more than someone not under that definition?

Again, genuinely interested or is this just a subjective opinion?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is a difficult one, where do you draw the line at personal responsibility?

Nowhere according to most views on this thread. Then act surprised when the system can't be funded. Then claim it would be if we just shook the magic money tree a bit harder.

I agree with the first sentence. The second two are pure speculation.

It's not going to personally cost me anything to be wrong. You might regret your optimism. "

I’m simply pointing out that you’re making a generalisation that hasn’t been proven. I’ve not said if it will turn out right or wrong, was just clarifying that you’re speculating. Which you are.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Dentistry is not free on the NHS, even though decay and gum disease are both easily preventable "

Yes, this was something of an oversight when the NHS was formed and has never been subsumed into it. One might argue that many social services should also come under the NHS.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

'Many' should of course read 'a tiny proportion'. No matter how it offends you it's not actually that common.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We pay for numbnuts on motorbikes, cyclists that are stupid, adrenaline junkies that think it’s wonderful until they end up crippled ... where would you draw the line? The difference between a smoker, drug addict, alcoholic and an obese person is that they may all be addictions but you can’t avoid food, you need it to survive it is a slightly different thing ... you can avoid the others.

Yes it should be free. "

You are talking some sense and some non-sense in the same breath.

I've been a competing mountain biker and motorcyclist in the past and have had a few breakages along the way. On no occasion have I wanted to end up broken but shit happens and things go wrong. I have had folk say "do you know how much that cost?" Well, tough. I've paid my stamp all these years, never smoked, rarely drink and generally led a healthy life.

The NHS has it's failings but it's well worth keeping and supporting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which sources are we using, and what dates, for proof that a “career benefit user” (whatever your definition of this is) use the NHS more than someone not under that definition?

Again, genuinely interested or is this just a subjective opinion?"

I’d call it a person who has never worked and chooses to milk the system their whole life and it is passed on from generation to generation. Believe me there are lots of them about. And I’d say it is these people who use the nhs more than the average Joe because of the lifestyle they have. Drugs, alcohol, junk food, chain smoking etc naturally result in illness. I don’t have facts and figures, just 20 years experience I’m dealing with them on a daily basis. That’s all I have to say on the matter, I’m not getting into a debate about it. That’s my view, feel free to disagree with it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That doesn’t make sense!

Once you’ve got to the age you can reproduce evolution has no effect. Evolution will not solve this. You’re usually smarter than that.

When the untermensch are being enabled to replicate their genes, that is indeed a problem for the process of natural selection. "

What the hell is this? Eugenics?? Besides I think you'll find that natural selection is doing exactly what it's always done. See the domestication of humans for more details.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which sources are we using, and what dates, for proof that a “career benefit user” (whatever your definition of this is) use the NHS more than someone not under that definition?

Again, genuinely interested or is this just a subjective opinion?

Subjective opinion, okay cool

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"It is a difficult one, where do you draw the line at personal responsibility?

Nowhere according to most views on this thread. Then act surprised when the system can't be funded. Then claim it would be if we just shook the magic money tree a bit harder.

I agree with the first sentence. The second two are pure speculation.

It's not going to personally cost me anything to be wrong. You might regret your optimism.

The fact that the NHS isn't currently affordable or sustainable with current government revenues is a fact and obvious from any set of government accounts. Those of the left will always claim that theres lots of unpaid tax that would solve the situation. It's possible that is correct. It's also a fact that they've been claiming it since at least 1997 and absolutely zero progress in that area has been made under new Labour, the coalition government or the current one. So I'm just saying that if I was banking on more money being found for my own healthcare, I wouldn't like the odds. You however, might.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

'Many' should of course read 'a tiny proportion'. No matter how it offends you it's not actually that common. "

It’s very common actually but if you’re insulated from it you just don’t see it.

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By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

I think there needs to be a phasing out of payments where lifestyle causes chronic illness.

For example, they need to put in black and white.

"Smoking causes COPD. From 2024 we will no longer accept COPD patients on the NHS, if you smoke give up now or fund your future illness yourself.

COPD treatment a year will cost:

then list out the costs"

It's not fair to just cut people off, but it is fair to phase it out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which sources are we using, and what dates, for proof that a “career benefit user” (whatever your definition of this is) use the NHS more than someone not under that definition?

Again, genuinely interested or is this just a subjective opinion?

Subjective opinion, okay cool

An opinion based on a vast amount of experience I might add.

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By *evil_u_knowMan
over a year ago

city

also after its phased out, of course existing people should still be taken care of, not phased out for everyone.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

[Removed by poster at 14/10/18 15:28:53]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"An opinion based on a vast amount of experience I might add. "

Anecdotal evidence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which sources are we using, and what dates, for proof that a “career benefit user” (whatever your definition of this is) use the NHS more than someone not under that definition?

Again, genuinely interested or is this just a subjective opinion?

Subjective opinion, okay cool

An opinion based on a vast amount of experience I might add. "

You understand that doesn’t make it any more than a subjective opinion, right?

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

Which sources are we using, and what dates, for proof that a “career benefit user” (whatever your definition of this is) use the NHS more than someone not under that definition?

Again, genuinely interested or is this just a subjective opinion?"

Lets take Marie Buchan, the woman with 8 kids who doesn't work. Now i know you're a big fan of Kantian ethics so apply the universalizability principle to her life choices and you see why we can't commend them. So i think we would agree that she's "making a career of the benefits system?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've had the unfortunate experience of being in A&E late on a Saturday night totally legitimate reason and the care I received was excellent.

However I was horrified at the amount of total wankers that ended up there because they were out on a bender and couldn't handle it and something stupid happened. They then hurl abuse at the staff who are trying to help them and make life very difficult due to their intoxication.

It's in these situations that I think there should be a fine - similar to a parking one - and this money goes back into the system.

There's no such thing as a perfect system but something like this would help in my humble opinion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I've had the unfortunate experience of being in A&E late on a Saturday night totally legitimate reason and the care I received was excellent.

It's in these situations that I think there should be a fine - similar to a parking one - and this money goes back into the system.

There's no such thing as a perfect system but something like this would help in my humble opinion"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which sources are we using, and what dates, for proof that a “career benefit user” (whatever your definition of this is) use the NHS more than someone not under that definition?

Again, genuinely interested or is this just a subjective opinion?

There’s a lot of telling me what I think in your comment. You’re going hard on speculation today.

I appreciate an answer to my question to another poster, it’s useful, but let’s try and phrase it as your point without having to try and “close” me like a salesman as you do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't know who you're talking about but 40% of the budget went on the over 65s (18% of the population) in 2016. Mostly because old people are very expensive to treat and thanks to that treatment living longer.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/01/ageing-britain-two-fifths-nhs-budget-spent-over-65s

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which sources are we using, and what dates, for proof that a “career benefit user” (whatever your definition of this is) use the NHS more than someone not under that definition?

Again, genuinely interested or is this just a subjective opinion?

Subjective opinion, okay cool

An opinion based on a vast amount of experience I might add.

You understand that doesn’t make it any more than a subjective opinion, right?

Call it what you like. I’d call it an evidence based opinion. And I’ve seen a hell of a lot of evidence.

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

I wonder what the Christian stand point would be ? What would Jesus have said ?

I wonder what his view on. Simplistic survival of the fittest evolutionary theory would be

(Hint survival of the fittest is only one of evolutions many faces )

I think free at point of need is wonderful , however as noted it isn't free

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have polycystic ovaries. I had been on hormones since I was 14 preventing pregnancy. Over time weight gained when I stopped them I'd tripled my weight from when I started. Albeit I was considered borderline anorexic. (All you going on how fat people this fat that where as anorexic people also need health care and considered to have done it to themselves, for some obesity is cause of an illness too!)

I had a child ended up with severe spd where I couldn't walk or do anything it was excruciatingly painful. This went on 5 years! I ran for the 1st time after 5 years. I still have issues when it's cold and wet

I stopped my hormones since then I've lost 4.5 stone. Haven't changed my diet or exercise. Now who is to blame? Should I have to forgo medical treatment due to being fat? I was a size 26!

Government stating there's no funds should stop giving themselves pay bonuses and getting everything paid for them 1st house, 2nd house, house in the country etc expensive restaurants bills paid for on top of their wages. They get a significant amount of money yet still need shit paying for them. Stop paying Lords who sit on their ass 300 odd quid per day for turning up and falling asleep doing absolutely nothing but turning up and filling seats. While they moan it's not enough money to do that they'd be out of pocket if they took less. Where as people have to try and survive on less than that a week, You wonder why they drink and take drugs with the life they have. People working minimum wage eating the cheapest but fattest unhealthy foods because it's cheaper!

You order a salad that costs more than a fatty cheap cut burger.

Make healthy food cheaper! You'll soon see a decline in obese people.

Where does blame start?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't know who you're talking about but 40% of the budget went on the over 65s (18% of the population) in 2016. Mostly because old people are very expensive to treat and thanks to that treatment living longer.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/01/ageing-britain-two-fifths-nhs-budget-spent-over-65s"

This is the major consideration for future generations - far more pressing than a sliver of pisstakers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’d call it a person who has never worked and chooses to milk the system their whole life and it is passed on from generation to generation. Believe me there are lots of them about. "

I don't believe you. Do you have good data for that?

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"I have polycystic ovaries. I had been on hormones since I was 14 preventing pregnancy. Over time weight gained when I stopped them I'd tripled my weight from when I started. Albeit I was considered borderline anorexic. (All you going on how fat people this fat that where as anorexic people also need health care and considered to have done it to themselves, for some obesity is cause of an illness too!)

I stopped my hormones since then I've lost 4.5 stone. Haven't changed my diet or exercise. Now who is to blame? Should I have to forgo medical treatment due to being fat? I was a size 26!

You order a salad that costs more than a fatty cheap cut burger.

Make healthy food cheaper! You'll soon see a decline in obese people.

Where does blame start? "

I eat very very healthy food

It's very very cheap

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Subjective opinion, okay cool

An opinion based on a vast amount of experience I might add.

You understand that doesn’t make it any more than a subjective opinion, right?

Call it what you like. I’d call it an evidence based opinion. And I’ve seen a hell of a lot of evidence. "

I’m not negating your personal, subjective experience - one tends to refer to something as evidence based when it’s drawn from research findings etc but yes, it is your evidence. It would be speculation to assume that extrapolates to be all encompassing or even for us to take your word for the actuality of your experience though. That’s all I’m saying.

You’ll note I’ve only asked questions and attempted to glean the veritable source of your opinion, and all I’m saying is it’s just an opinion and you’ve confirmed that.

It is still your opinion and I don’t and haven’t negated that aspect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Subjective opinion, okay cool

An opinion based on a vast amount of experience I might add.

You understand that doesn’t make it any more than a subjective opinion, right?

Call it what you like. I’d call it an evidence based opinion. And I’ve seen a hell of a lot of evidence.

You’ll note I’ve only asked questions and attempted to glean the veritable source of your opinion, and all I’m saying is it’s just an opinion and you’ve confirmed that.

It is still your opinion and I don’t and haven’t negated that aspect. "

Verifiable*

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

Which sources are we using, and what dates, for proof that a “career benefit user” (whatever your definition of this is) use the NHS more than someone not under that definition?

Again, genuinely interested or is this just a subjective opinion?

There’s a lot of telling me what I think in your comment. You’re going hard on speculation today.

I appreciate an answer to my question to another poster, it’s useful, but let’s try and phrase it as your point without having to try and “close” me like a salesman as you do. "

I said "I think we would agree" with a question mark at the end signifying that it was a question. I know you're not big on real world examples so by all means ignore it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Healthy food is affordable, assuming people have learned to cook. That's another health care skill that's been flung by the wayside in the UK over the past generation or two.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Which sources are we using, and what dates, for proof that a “career benefit user” (whatever your definition of this is) use the NHS more than someone not under that definition?

Again, genuinely interested or is this just a subjective opinion?

There’s a lot of telling me what I think in your comment. You’re going hard on speculation today.

I appreciate an answer to my question to another poster, it’s useful, but let’s try and phrase it as your point without having to try and “close” me like a salesman as you do.

I said "I think we would agree" with a question mark at the end signifying that it was a question. I know you're not big on real world examples so by all means ignore it."

You’ve ignored the two times now you’ve told me what I know. When you don’t know.

Speculating.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 14/10/18 15:43:39]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/01/ageing-britain-two-fifths-nhs-budget-spent-over-65s

This is the major consideration for future generations - far more pressing than a sliver of pisstakers."

Yup. I was looking forward to being a burden on society myself but fear that when I get there the system will have broken :D

Of course this is in part because tax contributions aren't saved for the future need of the payer but given out to those currently in need. It used to work fine until those pesky Dr's started improving life expectancy! Plus expectation growth, not much one can do about that though, humans are NOT A rational creatures.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

That doesn’t make sense!

Once you’ve got to the age you can reproduce evolution has no effect. Evolution will not solve this. You’re usually smarter than that.

When the untermensch are being enabled to replicate their genes, that is indeed a problem for the process of natural selection.

What the hell is this? Eugenics?? Besides I think you'll find that natural selection is doing exactly what it's always done. See the domestication of humans for more details."

It's dysgenics rather than eugenics.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Healthy food is affordable, assuming people have learned to cook. That's another health care skill that's been flung by the wayside in the UK over the past generation or two."

Kind of. Certainly food has generally got cheaper. I'd speculate that while it's become more affordable it's become less DESIRABLE, mostly thanks to advertising and recipes stuffed with salt, fat and sugar. Is easy but apparently mistaken to assign too much agency to people. We're not as clever and independent as we're lead to believe.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Subjective opinion, okay cool

An opinion based on a vast amount of experience I might add.

You understand that doesn’t make it any more than a subjective opinion, right?

Call it what you like. I’d call it an evidence based opinion. And I’ve seen a hell of a lot of evidence.

You’ll note I’ve only asked questions and attempted to glean the veritable source of your opinion, and all I’m saying is it’s just an opinion and you’ve confirmed that.

It is still your opinion and I don’t and haven’t negated that aspect.

Verifiable*"

Yes. Everything I do at work is recorded in many forms. But at the end of the day, I don’t need to verify anything to form my own opinion. I’m not trying to convince you or anybody else of anything. I’m merely voicing my opinion which I know from personal experience to be a good indicator of the facts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's dysgenics rather than eugenics. "

The obverse of the same coin?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Kind of. Certainly food has generally got cheaper. I'd speculate that while it's become more affordable it's become less DESIRABLE, mostly thanks to advertising and recipes stuffed with salt, fat and sugar. Is easy but apparently mistaken to assign too much agency to people. We're not as clever and independent as we're lead to believe."

That's why health care starts way before any hospital.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

as I mention in various threads regarding the future of society...we have to move onto a different system that is not monetary based. They might be viewed as communist yaddayaddafuckingyadda... but projects such as the eden project or zeitgeist movement at their core are for sustainable development of the human race and the biodiversity of the planet.

Automation WILL kick in...there is no denying it, billions of people will be replaced for efficiency...we will have to 'capitalize' for that by removing capitalism as a core front of a modern age..it is time to really start the planning, perhaps not for your children, but their children's futures. It really cant be denied..and if denied..yer a cunt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's *still* anecdotal evidence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's *still* anecdotal evidence"

I didn’t say it wasn’t. It’s the best kind of evidence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m merely voicing my opinion which I know from personal experience to be a good indicator of the facts. "

While one might argue that everyone is entitled to express their opinion it's the data that separate the wheat from the chaff. Without it's all chaff.

Personally I also have reservations about the freedom of expression but then I'm a liberal :D

Mike xx

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

It's dysgenics rather than eugenics.

The obverse of the same coin?"

If you like. Not sure why anyone would be in favour of dysgenics really.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's *still* anecdotal evidence"

I’m leaving it there as I’m not arguing and my actual point is not being grasped. But yes, understanding what anecdotal is would be useful!

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"How are we defining lifestyle choice?

Smoking, obesity, eating junk etc I’m guessing. Not exercising. All preventable things. "

What if you fall off your bike and break your back rendering you paralysed? It was a lifestyle choice for you yet now you require medical treatment all the time?

Or do you qualify for free treatment despite a chronic condition bought about by lifestyle choice because that lifestyle was an active one?

So no we're talking about earning NHS points....

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

I’m merely voicing my opinion which I know from personal experience to be a good indicator of the facts.

While one might argue that everyone is entitled to express their opinion it's the data that separate the wheat from the chaff. Without it's all chaff.

Personally I also have reservations about the freedom of expression but then I'm a liberal :D

Mike xx"

It's only "all chaff" if you think all opinions are inherently equal. Is that what you think?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My answer again to the OP, is yes.

AB’s quote sums it up:

“Illness is neither an indulgence for which people have to pay, nor an offence for which they should be penalised, but a misfortune the cost of which should be shared by the community.”

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's *still* anecdotal evidence

I didn’t say it wasn’t. It’s the best kind of evidence. "

Sadly it's terrible but emotionally convincing evidence. Personal experience really should be entirely discounted. Trust no one, especially the person between your ears!

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"My answer again to the OP, is yes.

AB’s quote sums it up:

“Illness is neither an indulgence for which people have to pay, nor an offence for which they should be penalised, but a misfortune the cost of which should be shared by the community.”"

So people that get infected at bareback gangbangs are misfortunate... interesting point of view.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's *still* anecdotal evidence

I’m leaving it there as I’m not arguing and my actual point is not being grasped. But yes, understanding what anecdotal is would be useful!

I understand it perfectly thanks. When you have 20 years of anecdotal evidence I think it’s fair to say you’re entitled to form a reliable opinion based on that accumulated evidence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's *still* anecdotal evidence

I didn’t say it wasn’t. It’s the best kind of evidence.

Sadly it's terrible but emotionally convincing evidence. Personal experience really should be entirely discounted. Trust no one, especially the person between your ears! "

The person between your ears is the person you should trust the most, not the least.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's *still* anecdotal evidence

I’m leaving it there as I’m not arguing and my actual point is not being grasped. But yes, understanding what anecdotal is would be useful!

I understand it perfectly thanks. When you have 20 years of anecdotal evidence I think it’s fair to say you’re entitled to form a reliable opinion based on that accumulated evidence. "

Nobody says you aren’t. They do however get to point out it’s subjective, anecdotal and that there are issues in knowing the rigour of the opinion and that an opinion based on anecdotal isn’t all encompassing necessarily of an entire situation. That’s all that’s been said.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's only "all chaff" if you think all opinions are inherently equal. Is that what you think? "

Any opinion not explicitly backed by data is err. ... maybe right, maybe wrong. How to tell? Ah do some scientific research

Winner.

Of course as we all know science is only an approximation so even then it's 'only an opinion' but it is the only kind that I respect.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"It's only "all chaff" if you think all opinions are inherently equal. Is that what you think?

Any opinion not explicitly backed by data is err. ... maybe right, maybe wrong. How to tell? Ah do some scientific research

Winner.

Right so all opinions are equally likely to be right or wrong?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

"It's only "all chaff" if you think all opinions are inherently equal. Is that what you think?

Any opinion not explicitly backed by data is err. ... maybe right, maybe wrong. How to tell? Ah do some scientific research

Winner.

Right so all opinions are equally likely to be right or wrong?"

Schrodinger's opinion

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"It's only "all chaff" if you think all opinions are inherently equal. Is that what you think?

Any opinion not explicitly backed by data is err. ... maybe right, maybe wrong. How to tell? Ah do some scientific research

Winner.

Right so all opinions are equally likely to be right or wrong?

Schrodinger's opinion

Brilliant. Until we open up the university and take out the scientific paper, there's just no way to know which opinion is better.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The person between your ears is the person you should trust the most, not the least. "

Sadly not true. One's brain is constantly making stuff up and then lying about it. See 'choice-support bias' for one trivial example.

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By *emini ManMan
over a year ago

There and to the left a bit

That's *still* anecdotal evidence

I didn’t say it wasn’t. It’s the best kind of evidence. "

It's also potentially the most skewed kind - if you experience a particular situation or type of people on a daily basis you tend to take that as the "norm" and use anecdotal "facts" and words that aren't actually correct like "many" rather than looking at, and appreciating, the wider and potentially more accurate picture.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's *still* anecdotal evidence

I’m leaving it there as I’m not arguing and my actual point is not being grasped. But yes, understanding what anecdotal is would be useful!

I understand it perfectly thanks. When you have 20 years of anecdotal evidence I think it’s fair to say you’re entitled to form a reliable opinion based on that accumulated evidence. "

Anecdotal evidence is literally the worst form of evidence. It's how you end up with anti vaxxers

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By *ungBlackTopMan
over a year ago

salford

Thought it was free in the UK and that's why ever fucker from Europe comes to the UK for free healthcare?!

It shouldn't be free for those who have chronic illnesses through their own fault because they abuse their bodies. It should definitely be free for children, disabled and those who are ill through no fault of their own ie cancer, MS, AD etc. The rest should bloody well pay. I hate the fact that the most needy in society are the ones that haven't contributed a dime towards the NHS but are the most demanding and act as if the NHS owes them!!!!!!!!!!!!GRRRR

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's only "all chaff" if you think all opinions are inherently equal. Is that what you think?

Any opinion not explicitly backed by data is err. ... maybe right, maybe wrong. How to tell? Ah do some scientific research

Winner.

Right so all opinions are equally likely to be right or wrong?

Schrodinger's opinion

Brilliant. Until we open up the university and take out the scientific paper, there's just no way to know which opinion is better.

Pretty much. Certainly it's easy to think one knows and of course sometimes such thinking is backed by existing data which skews things. I suppose that one might default to Occams's razor but not when it comes to public projects. I don't care if someone thinks that one washing powder works better than another but I'd be mightily annoyed to discover that public money were being spent on a whim. Yes I know this happens all the time, why do you think I'm so grumpy? lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's *still* anecdotal evidence

I didn’t say it wasn’t. It’s the best kind of evidence.

Walk into any a+e waiting room and look at the people in there and then tell me I’m wrong. I’m happy to rest my case, safe in the knowledge that my opinion is cast iron.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's *still* anecdotal evidence

I’m leaving it there as I’m not arguing and my actual point is not being grasped. But yes, understanding what anecdotal is would be useful!

I understand it perfectly thanks. When you have 20 years of anecdotal evidence I think it’s fair to say you’re entitled to form a reliable opinion based on that accumulated evidence.

Anecdotal evidence is literally the worst form of evidence. It's how you end up with anti vaxxers"

All my kids are fully vaccinated thank you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's *still* anecdotal evidence

I didn’t say it wasn’t. It’s the best kind of evidence.

Walk into any a+e waiting room and look at the people in there and then tell me I’m wrong. I’m happy to rest my case, safe in the knowledge that my opinion is cast iron. "

Hang on, so you’re now telling us you can simply look at someone and *know*...how did you define it...that they’ve never worked and generation on generation have been on benefits.

Right.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thought it was free in the UK and that's why ever fucker from Europe comes to the UK for free healthcare?!

I feel your pain but would like to reassure you that 40% of the NHS budget goes on the elderly because they bloody well won't die. If only the coffin dodgers would do the decent thing the rest of us would be fine.

I'd be surprised if anyone contributed dimes towards the NHS.

Also curious how you know that those who contribute the least demand the most? Other than diabetes the elderly are by far the biggest users of the NHS resources (of the top of my head)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"It's only "all chaff" if you think all opinions are inherently equal. Is that what you think?

Any opinion not explicitly backed by data is err. ... maybe right, maybe wrong. How to tell? Ah do some scientific research

Winner.

Right so all opinions are equally likely to be right or wrong?

Schrodinger's opinion

Brilliant. Until we open up the university and take out the scientific paper, there's just no way to know which opinion is better.

Well that's a fascinating opinion of anti-intellectualism. Take parenting for example, you're never going to get undisputed scientific evidence about the best parenting techniques because we simply can't put kids in controlled environments for longitudinal studies. Yet most of us need to make decisions as parents. So personally, I give priority to proxy factors like experts years of experience and proven track records of working with multiple kids with multiple issues, rather than just throwing my hands in the air and declaring that every parents opinion is equally valid.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For those who have become chronically ill through lifestyle choice?"

Smokers cost the NHS 5 billion a year. The government makes about 65 billion a year on the cigarette tax. Smokers more than pay their way.

I suppose the same could be said for other lifestyle choices such as drinking. Except for illegal drugs as they are not taxed.

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By *ifty grades of shadyCouple
over a year ago

Carisbrooke, Isle of Wight

"It is a difficult one, where do you draw the line at personal responsibility?

Nowhere according to most views on this thread. Then act surprised when the systm can't be funded. Then claim it would be if we just shook the magic money tree a bit harder.

I agree with the first sentence. The second two are pure speculation.

It's not going to personally cost me anything to be wrong. You might regret your optimism.

There's countless examples of the waste that goes on through things such as pfi's where not only have hospitals have in effect remortgaged themselves, but have been tied into service provides that charge extraordinary rates for maintaining the buildings too. Negotiated but expensive consultants, that award contracts to middlemen who Cream off a fee, to a specific service provider who in turn makes a bit for themselves and their employees. In truth, if hospitals were to have their own staff framework in place, this could cost a lot less. Any jobs that can't be done in house could themselves be sub contracted in.

As with most things in the public service sector, follow the money... There's a lot of old rope being sold for ropey services.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's *still* anecdotal evidence

I didn’t say it wasn’t. It’s the best kind of evidence.

Walk into any a+e waiting room and look at the people in there and then tell me I’m wrong. I’m happy to rest my case, safe in the knowledge that my opinion is cast iron.

Hang on, so you’re now telling us you can simply look at someone and *know*...how did you define it...that they’ve never worked and generation on generation have been on benefits.

Right.

Pretty much. That’s what 20 years experience buys you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All my kids are fully vaccinated thank you. "

Excellent

That's a very social act. Good old herd immunity

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A few points

1. It's not free everyone pays for it.

This.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There's countless examples of the waste that goes on through things such as pfi's where not only have hospitals have in effect remortgaged themselves, but have been tied into service provides that charge extraordinary rates for maintaining the buildings too. Negotiated but expensive consultants, that award contracts to middlemen who Cream off a fee, to a specific service provider who in turn makes a bit for themselves and their employees. In truth, if hospitals were to have their own staff framework in place, this could cost a lot less. Any jobs that can't be done in house could themselves be sub contracted in.

As with most things in the public service sector, follow the money... There's a lot of old rope being sold for ropey services.

I know how you feel and broadly agree but I have to caution against thinking that there are really many savings the can be squeezed out, as a proportion of total spending I think they would be relatively trivial.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A few points

1. It's not free everyone pays for it.

This. "

Number 1 is wrong. The career benefit scroungers dont.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's *still* anecdotal evidence

I didn’t say it wasn’t. It’s the best kind of evidence.

Walk into any a+e waiting room and look at the people in there and then tell me I’m wrong. I’m happy to rest my case, safe in the knowledge that my opinion is cast iron.

Hang on, so you’re now telling us you can simply look at someone and *know*...how did you define it...that they’ve never worked and generation on generation have been on benefits.

Right.

Pretty much. That’s what 20 years experience buys you. "

If you've bought anecdotal evidence you've overpaid

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

"For those who have become chronically ill through lifestyle choice?

Smokers cost the NHS 5 billion a year. The government makes about 65 billion a year on the cigarette tax. Smokers more than pay their way.

I suppose the same could be said for other lifestyle choices such as drinking. Except for illegal drugs as they are not taxed. "

Absolute bollucks figures. Smoking costs the NHS about 6.2bn a year and the government 14bn a year because it's not only the NHS effected (e.g. fire service). In return there's 9.5bn in tobacco duties and 2.5bn in VAT.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That's *still* anecdotal evidence

I didn’t say it wasn’t. It’s the best kind of evidence.

Walk into any a+e waiting room and look at the people in there and then tell me I’m wrong. I’m happy to rest my case, safe in the knowledge that my opinion is cast iron.

Hang on, so you’re now telling us you can simply look at someone and *know*...how did you define it...that they’ve never worked and generation on generation have been on benefits.

Right.

Pretty much. That’s what 20 years experience buys you. "

I have a similar length of experience but would never say I could do something like that - it shows how much you believe that you can take some data and extrapolate it thinking it gives you accurate data overall. I now don’t really feel comfortable in how valid even your anecdotal experience might be if you’re making what I deem to be really rather silly claims like this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’s okay. You tried. And we all know what your subjective anecdotal opinion is

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’s okay. You tried. And we all know what your subjective anecdotal opinion is

Yes we do, we all know it’s true the length and breadth of the country. Thank you for your endorsement

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 14/10/18 16:41:16]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Misread your comment as you didn’t use the quotes!!

I didn’t endorse your opinion. I know it’s tricky because you think you know what other people are and think without data, but I don’t agree with you.

Based on over twenty years anecdotal experience and subjective opinion that negates yours. Oh what a conundrum, someone should invent like research or something!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You do?

I only said I think healthcare should be free, a yes to the OP.

Ah I presume you’re doing that miraculous speculation thing again.

Love it when people tell you what you think. Think there’s a word for it.

And when did I tell you what you think? You’re confusing me with somebody else love.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Read up...love.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The life style choice that is costing the country the most is not smoking, or drugs, or even dangerous sport or gym over use.

Truth is people are so healthy they are living 20+ years longer.

So the lifestyle choice that is stressing the NHS is ageing, should we stop?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This could go on all day. I’ll call a truce and agree on a difference of opinion and bid you good day.

Now, I need some kip before I have to go on another night shift and get a bit more anecdotal evidence to bolster my opinion that little bit more.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’s bolstering something. I think it’s possibly a three letter word though.

Enjoy work.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Typical woman, always having to get the last word in

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