FabSwingers.com forum: Genders Pt2 - Tyranny of the Minority

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

The great Nicolas Nassim Taleb talks in his new book about the tyranny of intolerant minority....and we are seeing it here live and direct by having to rewrite the english language, how teachers teach and public service announcements to accommodate a surplus of "genders". Also at least 2 years ago when I was forecasting the deleterious effects of feminism inc. people were saying that such measures as pronoun would never happen (outside of outlier sweden).

To be fair.....SURELY TO FUCKING JESUS CHRIST ALMIGHTY ABOVE....these people recognise the uniqueness of their situation (appearing as one thing but being the other - at least some days), that virtually no one means to offend them and can accept the occasional incident of accidental "mis-gendering" in good faith with a smile and a little less fragility.

I'm guessing that the rhyme we learned in school "sticks and stones will break my bones, but names can never hurt me" is now strictly verboten?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Eh?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Refer to the first thread today about Genders. I liked what Frontier Psychiatrist said at the end - well balanced and apt.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

"tyranny" = people saying stuff on Twitter.

No one is getting locked up for misgendering people.

No one has to do anything other than treat fellow humans with a basic degree of respect.

Being desperate to be a victim is really rather sad.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

""tyranny" = people saying stuff on Twitter.

No one is getting locked up for misgendering people.

No one has to do anything other than treat fellow humans with a basic degree of respect.

Being desperate to be a victim is really rather sad.

You are asking for an advanced and non-proportionate level of respect here - basic respect is already granted.

Did we not hear in the other thread about teachers losing jobs over this stuff and a "boy" disrupting the allowed terminology at an all girl's school?

Pointing out the stupidity of people trying their hardest to be victims does not make one a victim.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

""tyranny" = people saying stuff on Twitter.

No one is getting locked up for misgendering people.

No one has to do anything other than treat fellow humans with a basic degree of respect.

Being desperate to be a victim is really rather sad.

You are asking for an advanced and non-proportionate level of respect here - basic respect is already granted.

Did we not hear in the other thread about teachers losing jobs over this stuff and a "boy" disrupting the allowed terminology at an all girl's school?

Pointing out the stupidity of people trying their hardest to be victims does not make one a victim.

Teachers are in position of care for children and need to do what the school asks them.

Everyday people are not obliged to do anything, and using words like 'tyranny' is utterly pathetic.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Tyranny of the minority" is the term for the effect of a tiny intolerant minority getting their way (in a very non-proportional way) by shouting loud enough.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

@ stove ...if it were the case that people were fines or jailed over misgendering would it make you reconsider your view?

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

""Tyranny of the minority" is the term for the effect of a tiny intolerant minority getting their way (in a very non-proportional way) by shouting loud enough.

Who is the 'intolerant minority'? Trans people who don't tolerate being discriminated against? Good for them.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

"@ stove ...if it were the case that people were fines or jailed over misgendering would it make you reconsider your view? "

'misgendering' is incredibly vague and could cover a range of behaviours.

Present the cases you think are unfair.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Discrimination is such a strong word for what can easily be a well meaning accident.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"@ stove ...if it were the case that people were fines or jailed over misgendering would it make you reconsider your view?

'misgendering' is incredibly vague and could cover a range of behaviours.

Present the cases you think are unfair. "

Answer the question...do you think it's reasonable? A punishment commensurate with the "offence"?..excuse the pun

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

[Removed by poster at 18/09/18 21:58:50]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me..."

I find it surprising in this day and age people think this can be used, especially from some psychiatrist.

Some things do hurt or cause disrupted thoughts without being physical...thats what mental health is(which I had worked in for nearly a decade)

I seriously think some people still think things should be swept under the carpet and wanting to hark back to times where you when you can racially insult people,have religious intolerance,social inequality,homophobia,sexual inequality,and sexism.

While the world will never be perfect, we must still adapt to society becoming different in the future..who the fuck cares if english is being rewritten..like anything it just evolves* . I mean...does anyone want to go back to Ye Olde English?-getta fucking grip.

*cant count txt spk

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""Tyranny of the minority" is the term for the effect of a tiny intolerant minority getting their way (in a very non-proportional way) by shouting loud enough.

Oh, that minority. I thought you might have meant the minority of people who carry out acts of violence against trans folk. Or the ones who still actively discriminate against women. Or is there a previously unheard group of people who exclusively get their views and news from publications with a less than healthy basis in reality?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Well stove, I've been goading you and your original argument here is frankly bollox. "It's not as if" in your words is sadly a reality in California... although it is being appealed.

#2018

I'd take being misgendered all day everyday over prison time ever. Particularly American prison.

---------------

California law that inflicts fines and/or jail time on employees who “misgender” a patient within a senior care facility. SB 219, enacted last October, was introduced by state senator Scott Weiner (D-San Francisco) and sponsored by Equality California. It penalizes senior healthcare workers who “misgender” any patients identifying as transgender by failing to address the patient by their preferred gender pronouns. Any employees who “willfully or repeatedly violate” SB 219 could be charged with a misdemeanor and subject to punishment of a $1000 fine, or even up to one year in jail.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

"@ stove ...if it were the case that people were fines or jailed over misgendering would it make you reconsider your view?

'misgendering' is incredibly vague and could cover a range of behaviours.

Present the cases you think are unfair.

Answer the question...do you think it's reasonable? A punishment commensurate with the "offence"?..excuse the pun "

Read my reply. Define 'misgendering'.

I don't think someone who occasionally gets another person's gender wrong should be punished.

I do think an incident where a teacher persistently refuses to use the gender that a pupil prefers should be addressed.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

""Tyranny of the minority" is the term for the effect of a tiny intolerant minority getting their way (in a very non-proportional way) by shouting loud enough.

We are talking about the rest of functioning society not the minority of scumbags.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"@ stove ...if it were the case that people were fines or jailed over misgendering would it make you reconsider your view?

'misgendering' is incredibly vague and could cover a range of behaviours.

Present the cases you think are unfair.

Answer the question...do you think it's reasonable? A punishment commensurate with the "offence"?..excuse the pun

Read my reply. Define 'misgendering'.

I don't think someone who occasionally gets another person's gender wrong should be punished.

I do think an incident where a teacher persistently refuses to use the gender that a pupil prefers should be addressed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe it's all just an extension of corporate risk aversion. After all, I doubt it was the "boy" in the all girls school who pushed through the change. It was probably the people running the school. It was risk aversion manifesting as politically correct corporate policy. I've seen this sweeping the workplace since the 00s. It's a shame because it leaves everything feeling far more managed and corporate

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

""sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me..."

I find it surprising in this day and age people think this can be used, especially from some psychiatrist.

Some things do hurt or cause disrupted thoughts without being physical...thats what mental health is(which I had worked in for nearly a decade)

*cant count txt spk

I take your point about mental health and bullying....but I also hold in mind the need to not be a piss weak lemming with zero mental fortitude or resilience.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me..."

I find it surprising in this day and age people think this can be used, especially from some psychiatrist.

Some things do hurt or cause disrupted thoughts without being physical...thats what mental health is(which I had worked in for nearly a decade)

*cant count txt spk

Yes. After my previous post I'm starting to think that the whole issue of political correctness which people are reacting against actually has more to do with the loss of genuinely public space in exchange for privately managed simulations of public space like this, where speach is policed in a way it isn't in genuinely public space. It's in reaction to feeling straight jacketed by corporate policies on speach that people are upset... and they're pinning it on political correctness and minorities instead

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Any employees who “willfully or repeatedly violate” SB 219 could be charged with a misdemeanor and subject to punishment of a $1000 fine, or even up to one year in jail."

That's the important part the wilfully and repeatedly.

I tend to judge things like that one a case by case, people who knew me pre transition still do from time to time, especially if they are doing something like telling a story from before I transitioned. Things like that I let slide. If say I'm out shopping or whatever and someone leads with "Sir" then I tend to get annoyed.

I judge it on intended malice. Yes, people make mistakes, but also, some people are arseholes.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

"Well stove, I've been goading you and your original argument here is frankly bollox. "It's not as if" in your words is sadly a reality in California... although it is being appealed.

#2018

I'd take being misgendered all day everyday over prison time ever. Particularly American prison.

---------------

So, a standard anti-discrimination bill that will punish people if they 'willful or repeatedly' treat the people *in their care

* in a manner they don't wish to be treated.

How terrible.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""Tyranny of the minority" is the term for the effect of a tiny intolerant minority getting their way (in a very non-proportional way) by shouting loud enough.

We are talking about the rest of functioning society not the minority of scumbags. "

Unfortunately there's a lot of people with scumbag tendencies who are very shouty and will have you believe their very way of life is threatened for baking a cake.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""tyranny" = people saying stuff on Twitter.

No one is getting locked up for misgendering people.

No one has to do anything other than treat fellow humans with a basic degree of respect.

Being desperate to be a victim is really rather sad.

It's not rocket science to respect someone's preferred pronouns.

As for the OP's opinion that misgendering someone does no harm - it can cause quite serious dysphoria for people, which in friends of mine has spiralled as far as suicidal thoughts (luckily my friends all have good support networks so they never acted on it, but I know people do).

For you it might be just one occasional mistake, but for them that probably happens multiple times a day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

""tyranny" = people saying stuff on Twitter.

No one is getting locked up for misgendering people.

No one has to do anything other than treat fellow humans with a basic degree of respect.

Being desperate to be a victim is really rather sad.

It's not rocket science to respect someone's preferred pronouns.

For you it might be just one occasional mistake, but for them that probably happens multiple times a day."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well I have been involved in this gender thread all day and all I can say is there are a lot of belligerent antagonistic and harsh opinions being expressed and it’s hateful. I seriously question why these alpha males (see pt.1) are so unable to bend with the wind and feel that their standing in what they probably imagine is a godlike pose braced against the rising tide of political correctness has any virtue? I believe the right to hold an opinion that doesn’t chime with the rest of society is fine as long as other viewpoints are considered but there are some people on here who are just total cocks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well I have been involved in this gender thread all day and all I can say is there are a lot of belligerent antagonistic and harsh opinions being expressed and it’s hateful. I seriously question why these alpha males (see pt.1) are so unable to bend with the wind and feel that their standing in what they probably imagine is a godlike pose braced against the rising tide of political correctness has any virtue? I believe the right to hold an opinion that doesn’t chime with the rest of society is fine as long as other viewpoints are considered but there are some people on here who are just total cocks

You get them everywhere, but seemingly particularly where they think they're gonna get loads of sex for minimum effort.

They spout about their right to free speech but seem to forget that that doesn't shield them from the fact that what they say has consequences (like being told they're a dickhead!)

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