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Is the NHS a fair system ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Do people who look after themselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink never get ill?

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Yes. I think its a fair system

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?"

I look after myself, eat healthy, don’t smoke, don’t drink and I’ve been scraped up and bolted back together by our wonderful NHS, had surgery, was born in a safe, modern, clean hospital and have watched loved ones cared for

The NHS is worth every penny, I just don’t trust the bastards who are running it to spend my money wisely. Doesn’t mean I begrudge the money

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By *ficouldMan
over a year ago

a quandary, could you change my mind?


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?"

But the NHS is not there for just the people who do the things you mentioned to excess! Even very healthy people get ill, have accidents.

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

What about the elderly who naturally tend to be more ill. What would be the point of having the nhs if everyone was fit and well

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By *ymaleMan
over a year ago

nr Bradford

Don't pay as much tax, everyone get private medical insurance, assessed on their lifestyle/risk and away you go....just like them American types. Could legalise guns while we're at it. Should thin the heard down a little and reduce ques even further. Seems to work really well over the pond..oh wait a minute, my bad. It's a fucking disaster morally!

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville

There will always be people who are fortunate enough to afford private healthcare.

However, the majority cannot afford this luxury, but are still prone to the same human frailties as the wealthy.

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By *ickygirl41Woman
over a year ago

Glasgow

Healthy, clean living folks never get hit by buses.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

650,000 American citizens a year go bankrupt paying for their medical bills. The number of deaths attributed to people not having health care is astronomical. The NHS is there for every single one of us regardless of creed, colour or financial status. It’s a completely unbiased service offered to every single one of us. Just be grateful that it is.

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By *alldarksurreyMan
over a year ago

surrey

Treating alcohol and drug misuse related injuries and illnesses should not be provided by the nhs.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

an alternative could be a system where anyone who indulges in any risky activity has to pay a premium.

What should we include in the risky activities? Smoking? Driving? Crossing the road? Playing rugby? Being lonely?

Childbirth?

I think the system is as fair as it can be

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By *electableDalliancesCouple
over a year ago

leeds

It was a brilliant fair system when it was first introduced and if it had been supported by the ensuing governments over the years it still would be. Sadly pockets have been lined deals struck and it is unrecognisable.

We will soon be in the American style system where if you have /can afford insurance all is well, it will be a sad day x

Regardless of lifestyle we all need medical help at some point , could be your knees will go from too much exercise

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Treating alcohol and drug misuse related injuries and illnesses should not be provided by the nhs. "

Exactly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think the system is fair but very annoying when they discharge people before they are fit to go home

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I think it’s turned into a bouncy castle instead of a safety net.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"I think the system is fair but very annoying when they discharge people before they are fit to go home "

Yes, there is a culture of getting people home quickly when they might not be fully fit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem with barring people for their lifestyle choices is where does it stop? Too fat, too thin, drug user, alcoholic, stds, dangerous sports etc etc.

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By *idlandiaMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

The NHS started as a catch net. Solve peoples ill health and the whole nation is healthier, can work more and the nation thrives as a result. "mission creep" has expanded its remit whilst at the same time consecutive governments have squeezed its funding. Its still the gem in this country despite its problems

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

I don’t believe it is a fair system

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Treating alcohol and drug misuse related injuries and illnesses should not be provided by the nhs. "

Drug and alcohol addiction, and addictive personalities are recognised by the DSM and NHS as illnesses, so from that point of view it's debatable how accountable a person is for addiction related illnesses.

If you injured yourself jogging or while exercising at the gym, would you argue that as a self-inflicted injury that should be exempt from NHS treatment?

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By *VineMan
over a year ago

The right place


"Treating alcohol and drug misuse related injuries and illnesses should not be provided by the nhs. "

Who should pay for that then?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Okay, illnesses associated with lifestyle choice cost the NHS £11 billion a year. This is Health problems related to poor diet, drinking and smoking. Obviously I’m not saying people who have a healthy lifestyle don’t get ill.

But why should people who look after thereselves fund this cost ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Treating alcohol and drug misuse related injuries and illnesses should not be provided by the nhs.

Who should pay for that then? "

Not me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sex would be severely limited without the NHS.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham

Why does it need to be fair? Life isn't fair

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Okay, illnesses associated with lifestyle choice cost the NHS £11 billion a year. This is Health problems related to poor diet, drinking and smoking. Obviously I’m not saying people who have a healthy lifestyle don’t get ill.

But why should people who look after thereselves fund this cost ?"

Are you arguing in favour of private health insurance for everyone?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yes. I think its a fair system"

The NHS was founded on the principles of fairness,and equality howvever over the the last 70 years care is increasingly being rationed, not according to need but rather according to available resourses.... and that im afraid is unfair and unjust!!

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By *VineMan
over a year ago

The right place


"Okay, illnesses associated with lifestyle choice cost the NHS £11 billion a year. This is Health problems related to poor diet, drinking and smoking. Obviously I’m not saying people who have a healthy lifestyle don’t get ill.

But why should people who look after thereselves fund this cost ?"

The government get a fair bit of revenue from alcohol and tobacco taxes. I don’t know how much it goes toward offsetting the cost of health care

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?"

I think you’ll find we’re “subsidising” those who don’t pay tax and NI. no matter how healthy or not we are.

But it’s a fair system. Unless you’ve experienced healthcare abroad, you don’t realise what a wonderful being the NHS is.

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By *alking DisasterWoman
over a year ago

South Oxfordshire


"Treating alcohol and drug misuse related injuries and illnesses should not be provided by the nhs. "

Why not?

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Sat here wrapped in bandages due to a sports injury so it works both ways. I would rather a drug addict get help successfully as the bill for his treatment would negate the crime issues and be more cost affective. (I know some drug addicts are not criminals)

(Although I did go private which is surprisingly affordable)

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By *ik MMan
over a year ago

Lancashire


"Okay, illnesses associated with lifestyle choice cost the NHS £11 billion a year. This is Health problems related to poor diet, drinking and smoking. Obviously I’m not saying people who have a healthy lifestyle don’t get ill.

But why should people who look after thereselves fund this cost ?"

Whilst direct taxes on the tobacco industry brings in a minimum of £12b per year. Therefore by your reckoning smokers should get a rebate when they access NHS services....

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire


"Okay, illnesses associated with lifestyle choice cost the NHS £11 billion a year. This is Health problems related to poor diet, drinking and smoking. Obviously I’m not saying people who have a healthy lifestyle don’t get ill.

But why should people who look after thereselves fund this cost ?

Whilst direct taxes on the tobacco industry brings in a minimum of £12b per year. Therefore by your reckoning smokers should get a rebate when they access NHS services.... "
yeah. Where is my bloody rebate. 30 a day for 40 years i should have a fair amount owed me by now

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

Seeing the smoking patients outside the hospital grounds, adorned in pyjamas /dressing gown, complete with drip stand and/or iv attached just makes my blood boil to the point of wanting to save the NHS money (my taxes) and finish off the stupid fuckers without further delay

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Okay, illnesses associated with lifestyle choice cost the NHS £11 billion a year. This is Health problems related to poor diet, drinking and smoking. Obviously I’m not saying people who have a healthy lifestyle don’t get ill.

But why should people who look after thereselves fund this cost ?

Whilst direct taxes on the tobacco industry brings in a minimum of £12b per year. Therefore by your reckoning smokers should get a rebate when they access NHS services.... "

The total NHS budget is in excess of 130 billion a year ...just for clarity and general practice gets only 7.7 % of the total budget ...just saying ....

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks


"Seeing the smoking patients outside the hospital grounds, adorned in pyjamas /dressing gown, complete with drip stand and/or iv attached just makes my blood boil to the point of wanting to save the NHS money (my taxes) and finish off the stupid fuckers without further delay

"

Pregnant women smoking outside the maternity ward gets me so sad

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By *rickyd72Man
over a year ago

Sheffield

I'll put my 2ps worth in. I work within the NHS. I see more people that sustain injuries from so called "healthy lifestyles" than I see people who have chronic illnesses. Ok, they are treated elsewhere in the system but in terms of acute care, I see more people from gyms than I do from pubs. And no, we don't often see the "I slipped in the shower and it went up my bum" type of stuff!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'll put my 2ps worth in. I work within the NHS. I see more people that sustain injuries from so called "healthy lifestyles" than I see people who have chronic illnesses. Ok, they are treated elsewhere in the system but in terms of acute care, I see more people from gyms than I do from pubs. And no, we don't often see the "I slipped in the shower and it went up my bum" type of stuff!"

Is this in casualty ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Okay, illnesses associated with lifestyle choice cost the NHS £11 billion a year. This is Health problems related to poor diet, drinking and smoking. Obviously I’m not saying people who have a healthy lifestyle don’t get ill.

But why should people who look after thereselves fund this cost ?

Whilst direct taxes on the tobacco industry brings in a minimum of £12b per year. Therefore by your reckoning smokers should get a rebate when they access NHS services.... "

Junk food costs the NHS more than cigarettes and alcohol combined, £6 billion a year.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Healthy living should in theory lead to a longer life and a longer retirement. So in effect healthy people who live longer will use more public resources than those who die young. Maybe that should be penalised in some way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The NHS needs radical reform in so many ways and new ideas and ways taken aboard;but with politicians in charge who are afraid of upsetting people nothing will be done.The bottomless black hole moneypit will continue to eat our money.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Radical reform for sure. If by that you mean being selective about who does or doesn't qualify for treatment, no way.

I work in the NHS (subcontracting). Just the other day I had a theatre nurse venting on my shoulder after a particularly frustrating morning that she had with FIVE different managers on her back, all of whom were contradicting one another to the point that she didn't know what tf was going on.

Seems obvious where some savings could be made there, for starters.

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By *orkie321bWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham

People with an unhealthy lifestyle are already paying additional taxes to feed their habit. We now have a sugar tax along with the taxes already levied on tobacco and alcohol. A packet of cigarettes now costs over £10 and 80% of this is tax!

This article has some interesting figures

https://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/840286/tobacco-alcohol-tax-nhs-spending-HMRC

The real reasons the NHS is struggling has nothing to do with the way some people choose to lead their lives. The population has grown exponentially since the introduction of the NHS and funding hasn't kept pace. As a whole we are all living much longer and most older people use the nhs more than younger people. People with an unhealthy lifestyle are actually more likely to die young.

Pharmaceutical companies and other companies are charging the nhs extortionate amounts for medicines and services - not just complex, life saving treatments but simple drugs. There are some medicines that are available over the counter for a few pounds but the nhs gets charged 10 times this!

The problems with the nhs are far more complex than just unhealthy people putting a strain on it.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

It's fair because it prioritises those in greatest need.

Is there any other kind of fairness?

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By *elma and ShaggyCouple
over a year ago

Bedworth

Last Saturday I spent a total of 8hours at my local hospital. About 3.5 hours at the emergency gynaecology unit where I was treated and sent home with antibiotics. After taking the first dose that evening I suffered a severe allergic reaction and spent 4.5 hours in casualty, eventually being seen and sent home close to 3am.

People blame so much wasted resources on drinking, drugs and smoking but I can honestly say, I was very surprised that I saw no evidence of that while I was there. In fact, there were more people there who appeared to be in sports gear with what looked like sporting injuries than there were d*unks or people popping outside to smoke.

We are very lucky to have the privilege of universal healthcare in our country and I for one am extremely grateful for the wonderful care I received

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?"

I say this as another cyclist, if you stack your bike tomorrow descending at speed end up crippled, or with a significant brain injury, the demand on the NHS of you "exercising regularly" would dwarf what most people will ever take from the NHS.

The NHS exists as insurance so we can get the care we need. That's idealistic and yes certain lifestyle choices are a huge drain. But the answer is social change and education NOT limiting healthcare based on a tick list of what society thinks is the right or wrong way to lead your life

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

"

that same person could have a car crash tomorrow.....

or a stroke...

or something they have no control over.....

i was a few hrs from being being "brave and stubborn" from being in an ICU......

sometimes "things" just happen.... i am never going to begrudge anyone else treatment....

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?

I say this as another cyclist, if you stack your bike tomorrow descending at speed end up crippled, or with a significant brain injury, the demand on the NHS of you "exercising regularly" would dwarf what most people will ever take from the NHS.

The NHS exists as insurance so we can get the care we need. That's idealistic and yes certain lifestyle choices are a huge drain. But the answer is social change and education NOT limiting healthcare based on a tick list of what society thinks is the right or wrong way to lead your life"

Yeah, I agree with that. But the obesity crisis seems like it’s out of control and type 2 diabetes is through the roof, how do you reverse that, something radical needs to happen, not sure what though.

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

It is a fair system, if we go private I wouldn’t be able to afford my medication (£250 a week just for 10 injections & that doesn’t include my oxygen tanks either)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?

I say this as another cyclist, if you stack your bike tomorrow descending at speed end up crippled, or with a significant brain injury, the demand on the NHS of you "exercising regularly" would dwarf what most people will ever take from the NHS.

The NHS exists as insurance so we can get the care we need. That's idealistic and yes certain lifestyle choices are a huge drain. But the answer is social change and education NOT limiting healthcare based on a tick list of what society thinks is the right or wrong way to lead your life

Yeah, I agree with that. But the obesity crisis seems like it’s out of control and type 2 diabetes is through the roof, how do you reverse that, something radical needs to happen, not sure what though."

I agree that both need addressing, but I'm not sure telling people that they wont get health care is the way. After all facts like "you are more likely to die because you are obese" or "if you develop type 2 diabetes you could die" doesn't work as a deterrent, I;m not sure "if you get ill, we won;t treat you" would be overly effective either

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/08/18 22:06:39]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't think any reform of the NHS would help much with current problems of obesity, laziness, and over indulgence etc.

These things are fundamental social problems, pressure from them on the NHS is just a symptom of those problems.

I think a big part of the problem is the way that people have their needs and desires conditioned by marketing and the normalisation of instant gratification, gratification of greed, junk food and physical inactivity normalised and idealised by subtley effective marketing techniques, the prioritising of profits over what is actually good for people, and so on and so on. Kids (and their parents) are conditioned into believing that junk food is a treat, that eight hours a day of watching tv is a good thing, that getting everywhere quickly by car is something desirable or even essential.

In my humble etc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

just why is unhealthy food being manufactured in the first place? why is the stuff being placed on the shelves in shops? if it's causing such problems why is this kind of food allowed to exist?

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By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?"
.

You've fallen into this sjw bollocks of "fairness".

Life isn't fair, were not all born equal and we won't all die equally either, so you've looked after yourself, I recommend that, unfortunately you'll pay the same as somebody who's not given a fuck, that's socialism because there looking for equality of outcome, there'll say you've lived a privileged life where you're choices weren't available to all!.

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By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"just why is unhealthy food being manufactured in the first place? why is the stuff being placed on the shelves in shops? if it's causing such problems why is this kind of food allowed to exist?"
.

I dunno, why do people make cocaine?

Oh yeah, it's coz some fuckwits are willing to take it!.

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By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester

My advice is try and ignore the communists on this forum, there just going to kill another 100 million people if given a whiff of power as proven by history.

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By *od_AlmightyMan
over a year ago

Heaven


"just why is unhealthy food being manufactured in the first place? why is the stuff being placed on the shelves in shops? if it's causing such problems why is this kind of food allowed to exist?.

I dunno, why do people make cocaine?

Oh yeah, it's coz some fuckwits are willing to take it!.

"

what exactly has illegal drugs got to do with the manufacture and sale of junk food? unless cocaine is stocked in the shops in the parallel universe in which you live

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Treating alcohol and drug misuse related injuries and illnesses should not be provided by the nhs.

Exactly."

As well as smoking and obesity related problems. Yes some obesity issues aren’t always down to just feeding your face and not giving a shit, but many are. This particular issue is analogous to grossly overweight people paying the same for plane tickets (assuming they don’t have to buy two seats).

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge


"just why is unhealthy food being manufactured in the first place? why is the stuff being placed on the shelves in shops? if it's causing such problems why is this kind of food allowed to exist?"
profit & greed simple

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?.

You've fallen into this sjw bollocks of "fairness".

Life isn't fair, were not all born equal and we won't all die equally either, so you've looked after yourself, I recommend that, unfortunately you'll pay the same as somebody who's not given a fuck, that's socialism because there looking for equality of outcome, there'll say you've lived a privileged life where you're choices weren't available to all!."

You clearly don’t know what SJW stand for then, they would probably be saying the opposite, I’m guessing you just heard the term on the forum somewhere and jumped on the bandwagon. ‘Equality of outcome’ another phrase that you’ve probably seen used on a feminism thread I’m guessing. Back to the drawing board mate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?"

Depends on what they need the NHS for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Okay, illnesses associated with lifestyle choice cost the NHS £11 billion a year. This is Health problems related to poor diet, drinking and smoking. Obviously I’m not saying people who have a healthy lifestyle don’t get ill.

But why should people who look after thereselves fund this cost ?"

What if you were to suffer a trauma that led to mental illness? Sonething over which you had no control...you've chosen to opt out because you look after yourself so shouldn't have to pay...

Equally then you could say that as I've never had children, why should my contribution pay for others childbirth? Fertility treatment and IVF are a lifestyle choice, so why should it be paid for...for that matter, as I've never had kids, why should I pay for education through my council tax?

You start to risk a 2 or more tier system where only those who can afford it can have the choice to have children...we'd all have something we feel we shouldn't pay towards...it would lead to chaos.

Yeah, it can feel unfair but lots of things do...a colleague of mine was hospitalised in the US, the chart that hangs at the end of the bed isn't anything to do with your health...its an invoice and they list everything, every bed sheet and pillow case, every pill, every cup of water...

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By *plpxp2Couple
over a year ago

Middlesbrough

It is hard to see how charges could be adjusted to factor in risk without adding even more costs and administrative waste. What we have is probably as good as it gets in terms of a simple charging system.

The more pressing problem is having an adult debate about what the NHS is and more importantly what it isn't. The fact that something can be done should the NHS pay for it? We have to accept there will never be sufficient money for the NHS, it will always spend more as we all have limitless expectations of the service.

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester

The only part I find unfair is that as I have private healthcare through the company, I get taxed as a benefit on it.

How is that fair when I am taking the burden off the NHS?

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?"

I personally am never ill. With the exception of a couple of minor injuries and having the snip, my medical history is none existent.

If I was to look at it from a selfish and mercenary point of view, I've had many friends and family members who have needed extensive treatments for all manner of things from major trauma to cancers. So I have benefited through them.

To me, the thing that makes the system fair is that the facilities and services are "available" to everyone if and when they do need them... and we all need some help at some time.

Cal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have you had more kids to use schools than your neighbours?

Have you had any periods on benefits or tax credits?

The state's role is to provide a base level of support to all of us, and then to let us olive our lives.

Besides if you eat too much or smoke you might use the services more and earlier but you're lies likely to use them more later on.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Because the NHS is a universal "benefit", that's why, funded from general taxation.

There is no correlation between ability to pay and entitlement to treatment, and long may that continue.

Britain was a sick country, ravaged by disease, in the 1930s, when illness and injury went untreated unless you had money to pay a doctor's bill. Then the population was plunged into the most atrocious and bloody conflict.

In the early 1940s, as plans began to emerge to rebuild Britain after victory, the politicians realised the country could not return to the 1930s and the Beveridge plan emerged to slay the five "giants" of the time - want, disease, ignorance, squalor and idleness.

I'm pretty sure I pay more into the system than I receive back, and I have absolutely no problem with that. It means I have lived a reasonably healthy life, without great call upon the service. That could change tomorrow when I step in front of a bus.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What about people who have high risk jobs.

Or what about the people with high risk hobbies.

The jogger who's knees are shot, no one forced him to run, just like no one forced a fat person to eat burgers.

Footballers/car racers/motorbike racers.

Hell my choice to drive a car/walk down the street.

Nope, everyone pays towards it, everyone should have access to it.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?

I say this as another cyclist, if you stack your bike tomorrow descending at speed end up crippled, or with a significant brain injury, the demand on the NHS of you "exercising regularly" would dwarf what most people will ever take from the NHS.

The NHS exists as insurance so we can get the care we need. That's idealistic and yes certain lifestyle choices are a huge drain. But the answer is social change and education NOT limiting healthcare based on a tick list of what society thinks is the right or wrong way to lead your life

Yeah, I agree with that. But the obesity crisis seems like it’s out of control and type 2 diabetes is through the roof, how do you reverse that, something radical needs to happen, not sure what though."

Ah...the truth will out!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Life isn’t fair, people can have catastrophic injuries/ diseases through no fault of their own. If a couple have a genetic disease such as cystic fibrosis, they have one child with it and then choose to have another. Their next child may not but it turns out that child has it too. The NHS will treat both children, but they’ve knowingly taken that risk. Where do you draw the line?

If we aren’t careful we wil be like Animal Farm where some people are more equal than others.

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By *r TriomanMan
over a year ago

Chippenham Malmesbury area


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?"

I did all of the positive things listed above. I was a road runner and cross country skiier, competing in both. For over 25 years I trained hard on average 5 days a week, then I got a heart condition; my consultant told me that it was as a result of years of high intensity endurance training.

I've had 3 heart opperations and I'm waiting for another. Also, I've came of my road bike and crashed my motorbike, ending up in hospital on both occasions. I've been taken to hospital 3 times in an ambulance.

It isn't fair to say that fit healthy people fund the NHS but don't use it; sports injuries are also a burden on the NHS.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?

I say this as another cyclist, if you stack your bike tomorrow descending at speed end up crippled, or with a significant brain injury, the demand on the NHS of you "exercising regularly" would dwarf what most people will ever take from the NHS.

The NHS exists as insurance so we can get the care we need. That's idealistic and yes certain lifestyle choices are a huge drain. But the answer is social change and education NOT limiting healthcare based on a tick list of what society thinks is the right or wrong way to lead your life

Yeah, I agree with that. But the obesity crisis seems like it’s out of control and type 2 diabetes is through the roof, how do you reverse that, something radical needs to happen, not sure what though.

Ah...the truth will out! "

Oh, I forgot im not allowed to mention obesity, I do apologise.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?

I say this as another cyclist, if you stack your bike tomorrow descending at speed end up crippled, or with a significant brain injury, the demand on the NHS of you "exercising regularly" would dwarf what most people will ever take from the NHS.

The NHS exists as insurance so we can get the care we need. That's idealistic and yes certain lifestyle choices are a huge drain. But the answer is social change and education NOT limiting healthcare based on a tick list of what society thinks is the right or wrong way to lead your life

Yeah, I agree with that. But the obesity crisis seems like it’s out of control and type 2 diabetes is through the roof, how do you reverse that, something radical needs to happen, not sure what though.

Ah...the truth will out!

Oh, I forgot im not allowed to mention obesity, I do apologise."

Actually, you're right. I'm sorry. It is a fact relevant to the conversation. I'm tired, it's early.

I am diabetic and other than my medication and my diabetic check ups each year I rarely use the NHS.

I do get a medical exemption certificate which means all prescriptions are free. I do think this should only be for diabetic medication and not everything (I could potentially ask to be prescribed paracetamol for instance and not be charged with it, but I don't).

I think people need to get away from this 'it's my pot of money' attitude. It's not, it never has been. The NHS is (or was) about providing care for those who need it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OP What about premature babies ? They cost £1000s to treat before they’ve even paid a penny into the system?

Some healthy slim non smokers don’t work so aren’t paying into the system at all. They can still use the NHS.

Don’t you see how your argument is flawed?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?

I say this as another cyclist, if you stack your bike tomorrow descending at speed end up crippled, or with a significant brain injury, the demand on the NHS of you "exercising regularly" would dwarf what most people will ever take from the NHS.

The NHS exists as insurance so we can get the care we need. That's idealistic and yes certain lifestyle choices are a huge drain. But the answer is social change and education NOT limiting healthcare based on a tick list of what society thinks is the right or wrong way to lead your life

Yeah, I agree with that. But the obesity crisis seems like it’s out of control and type 2 diabetes is through the roof, how do you reverse that, something radical needs to happen, not sure what though.

Ah...the truth will out!

Oh, I forgot im not allowed to mention obesity, I do apologise.

Actually, you're right. I'm sorry. It is a fact relevant to the conversation. I'm tired, it's early.

I am diabetic and other than my medication and my diabetic check ups each year I rarely use the NHS.

I do get a medical exemption certificate which means all prescriptions are free. I do think this should only be for diabetic medication and not everything (I could potentially ask to be prescribed paracetamol for instance and not be charged with it, but I don't).

I think people need to get away from this 'it's my pot of money' attitude. It's not, it never has been. The NHS is (or was) about providing care for those who need it.

"

Spot on !!

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By *rystal Tipps - AlistairCouple
over a year ago

livingston

The NHS System is a fair way of treating the UK public, the problem is that it also treats people from other countries and does not charge for the treatments and operations they receive leaving the UK Tax payers to foot the bill.

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By *isaB45Woman
over a year ago

Fabville


"The only part I find unfair is that as I have private healthcare through the company, I get taxed as a benefit on it.

How is that fair when I am taking the burden off the NHS?"

It is fair because the doctors and nurses were trained. Your private hospital is inspected to ensure it meets clinical standards. And God forbid you should ever find yourself unable to afford private healthcare, the gool old NHS will be there for you..

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By *cd and scruffCouple
over a year ago

Rochester

The nhs is an awesome system

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?"

I note you back track for moderate drinkers. I can only assume why.

1.A woman in high heels twists her ankle and stumbles into the road.

2.A child does a wheelie on their bike and smashes their teeth out on a lamp post.

3.A happy worker is dancing to music in the chippy and accidentally shoves his hand in the fryer.

Treat them or tell them it was their own fault?

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford


"I think the system is fair but very annoying when they discharge people before they are fit to go home

Yes, there is a culture of getting people home quickly when they might not be fully fit. "

This happened recently with my dad, he needs a serious heart operation and is still waiting at home, 8 weeks later

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The only part I find unfair is that as I have private healthcare through the company, I get taxed as a benefit on it.

How is that fair when I am taking the burden off the NHS?"

You are taxed on it because it is a benefit in kind.

But go for a private procedure and the moment it goes wrong or there are complications it's the NHS that sort it out.

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By *ulfilthmentMan
over a year ago

Just around the corner

You can live as healthily as you like and still get sick. Most of the big ticket ‘bad’ habits attract high taxes. I’d say it was fair enough.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It's fair to help those in need with a free at point of care system Imo and not for profit. The society should be engendering of good welfare and criticism and responsibilities for this remain at the top. It's easy to divide and conquer, with arguments about who's most eligible or to blame for their own life condition but social justice and responsibility rests on establishing the focus upon the causes of why some people are destined from birth to suffer, whilst others prosper.

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By *radleywigginsMan
over a year ago

northwest

It’s a fair system for those who don’t pay for it for sure. For everyone else, maybe.

Essentially, you’d be hard pushed to design a more ridiculous system. The people who benefit the most are those who put the least in.

The challenges that face the NHS now are completely different than those at its inception.

1. Aging population. A massive proportional of the population is at an age beyond which they contribute directly in income tax and national insurance

2. The quality of the care and the cost of the treatments is thousands of times what it was when we started.

3. Expectations of the public. Everyone assumes they will live to 90, and will do so in good health

4. Refusal by the general population to take any responsibility for their health. (Until the point of disease) see above posts

5. Politicisation of a health service. Totally unnecessary apples and oranges comparisons but subsequent administrations and media reporting means public only hear bad

6. Media obsession leading to litigious overkill leading to ridiculous overspend on risk reduction/safety

7. Media reporting of ‘science’ not actually designed for lay consumption

8. Commercialisation of the NHS. Very few healthcare workers think they work for the NHS, they work for their shitty little bit of it, their trust, which is competing again all the other local trusts. How can one be ‘doing well’? Competition not good. Do we want organisations responsible for their own budgets and actually making money out of people’s sickness?!!

What’s the answer? Reduction in expectations in line with contributions. Effectively a 2-tier system with extra contributions asked for gold standard treatments. Cost effective and proven standard treatment to continue for all free at the point of use.

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By *radleywigginsMan
over a year ago

northwest

[Removed by poster at 30/08/18 10:04:33]

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By *lan157Man
over a year ago

a village near Haywards Heath in East Sussex

NHS is wonderful most of the time. I just can't understand why friends awaiting a small procedure can't be told approximately how many months they will have to wait. it's treated as a secret.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

82% of the price of a pack of fags is tax. Moreover as smokers die younger they are less likely to need expensive end of life care.

I wouldn't be surprised if smokers pay more for the NHS than they get out of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?"
Well I don’t drink or smoke I go the gym work hard and tend to eat generally okay and I get ripped off anytime I need something which is rare thou,and people who neglect and abuse their bodies and claim allsorts of benefits for it get it all on a plate.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you walk into an A&E anywhere in this country you will be seen, even if you have a head ache ,this service is free, The NHS is a fair service abused by many and on its knees.Its a system envied by the rest of the world but treated unfairly by the people who it’s trying to help.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you walk into an A&E anywhere in this country you will be seen, even if you have a head ache ,this service is free, The NHS is a fair service abused by many and on its knees.Its a system envied by the rest of the world but treated unfairly by the people who it’s trying to help. "
well some foreigners come off to have treatment for free then go back home! So there has to be something to be put into place and yes it’s a great system but it’s being completely abused.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If you walk into an A&E anywhere in this country you will be seen, even if you have a head ache ,this service is free, The NHS is a fair service abused by many and on its knees.Its a system envied by the rest of the world but treated unfairly by the people who it’s trying to help. well some foreigners come over* to have treatment for free then go back home! So there has to be something to be put into place and yes it’s a great system but it’s being completely abused."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a nurse I see all people who abuse the system, I’m verbally abused on a daily basis by people from all walks of life, all countries all ages and all sexes for not making tea quick enough this is not an exaggeration. This is our NHS we need to be proud of it before we loose it x

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By *ighland gentlemanMan
over a year ago

Ardgay

The NHS is not all free.

You pay for dentistry, for opticians and a few other bits.

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

When I was at a festival a few years ago a mates drummer wasn’t feeling well so they got seen to by the first aiders & got taken to hospital they were surprised about our nhs and explained that in America the treatment you get etc depends on the level of insurance that you have

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ? Well I don’t drink or smoke I go the gym work hard and tend to eat generally okay and I get ripped off anytime I need something which is rare thou,and people who neglect and abuse their bodies and claim allsorts of benefits for it get it all on a plate."

How does the NHS rip you off ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ? Well I don’t drink or smoke I go the gym work hard and tend to eat generally okay and I get ripped off anytime I need something which is rare thou,and people who neglect and abuse their bodies and claim allsorts of benefits for it get it all on a plate.

How does the NHS rip you off ? "
well for one thing I’m charged is £7.20 something min and it goes up and up and the next person behind me gets it for free so I’m punished for working and paying for someone else to get it for free and I’m paying for my own out of my wages.

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester


"The only part I find unfair is that as I have private healthcare through the company, I get taxed as a benefit on it.

How is that fair when I am taking the burden off the NHS?

You are taxed on it because it is a benefit in kind.

But go for a private procedure and the moment it goes wrong or there are complications it's the NHS that sort it out. "

Doubt it as it’s the same surgeons who perform the ops etc just working in their private role.

It’s taking the financial burden off the NHS so how is it a benefit in kind?

Rip off Britain as ever.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The only part I find unfair is that as I have private healthcare through the company, I get taxed as a benefit on it.

How is that fair when I am taking the burden off the NHS?

You are taxed on it because it is a benefit in kind.

But go for a private procedure and the moment it goes wrong or there are complications it's the NHS that sort it out.

Doubt it as it’s the same surgeons who perform the ops etc just working in their private role.

It’s taking the financial burden off the NHS so how is it a benefit in kind?

Rip off Britain as ever. "

I really don't think I need to explain to you what a benefit in kind is?

You get taxed on it because your employer gives you the cover as part of your benefits package. There is nothing altruistic about them doing that, and it's certainly not to save the NHS money

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester


"The only part I find unfair is that as I have private healthcare through the company, I get taxed as a benefit on it.

How is that fair when I am taking the burden off the NHS?

You are taxed on it because it is a benefit in kind.

But go for a private procedure and the moment it goes wrong or there are complications it's the NHS that sort it out.

Doubt it as it’s the same surgeons who perform the ops etc just working in their private role.

It’s taking the financial burden off the NHS so how is it a benefit in kind?

Rip off Britain as ever.

I really don't think I need to explain to you what a benefit in kind is?

You get taxed on it because your employer gives you the cover as part of your benefits package. There is nothing altruistic about them doing that, and it's certainly not to save the NHS money

"

Lol

It’s my company

So I pay to go private and they say it’s a benefit.....how so?

There are doleites who have sat on their backsides for decades, never paid a penny in and still get the same treatment.

Sorry, not fair in my book.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The only part I find unfair is that as I have private healthcare through the company, I get taxed as a benefit on it.

How is that fair when I am taking the burden off the NHS?

You are taxed on it because it is a benefit in kind.

But go for a private procedure and the moment it goes wrong or there are complications it's the NHS that sort it out.

Doubt it as it’s the same surgeons who perform the ops etc just working in their private role.

It’s taking the financial burden off the NHS so how is it a benefit in kind?

Rip off Britain as ever.

I really don't think I need to explain to you what a benefit in kind is?

You get taxed on it because your employer gives you the cover as part of your benefits package. There is nothing altruistic about them doing that, and it's certainly not to save the NHS money

Lol

It’s my company

So I pay to go private and they say it’s a benefit.....how so?

There are doleites who have sat on their backsides for decades, never paid a penny in and still get the same treatment.

Sorry, not fair in my book. "

I know it's your own company and you know full well why you choose for your company to pay your health insurance rather than you pay it as a private individual. Which would of course avoid you being taxed on it, but be less cost effective.

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By *iamondCougarWoman
over a year ago

Norfuck! / Lincolnshire

Enjoy it whilst you have it.... it won’t be too far in the future before we will all have to take out insurance to cover it ....

The NHS is on its knees and Brexit will inevitably have a massive impact on the cost and availability of drugs. Most are manufactured within Europe or Far East.

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By * and M lookingCouple
over a year ago

Worcester


"The only part I find unfair is that as I have private healthcare through the company, I get taxed as a benefit on it.

How is that fair when I am taking the burden off the NHS?

You are taxed on it because it is a benefit in kind.

But go for a private procedure and the moment it goes wrong or there are complications it's the NHS that sort it out.

Doubt it as it’s the same surgeons who perform the ops etc just working in their private role.

It’s taking the financial burden off the NHS so how is it a benefit in kind?

Rip off Britain as ever.

I really don't think I need to explain to you what a benefit in kind is?

You get taxed on it because your employer gives you the cover as part of your benefits package. There is nothing altruistic about them doing that, and it's certainly not to save the NHS money

Lol

It’s my company

So I pay to go private and they say it’s a benefit.....how so?

There are doleites who have sat on their backsides for decades, never paid a penny in and still get the same treatment.

Sorry, not fair in my book.

I know it's your own company and you know full well why you choose for your company to pay your health insurance rather than you pay it as a private individual. Which would of course avoid you being taxed on it, but be less cost effective."

I don’t blame the NHS as can’t fault them, they provide the best service that they can with both hands tied behind their back.

It’s a great asset to our country and I would never want it to stop being there when needed.

There are so many time-wasters out their who seem to think it’s their personal drop in centre as we witnessed first hand very recently.

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By *iger.10Man
over a year ago

Llantrisant


"It’s a fair system for those who don’t pay for it for sure. For everyone else, maybe.

Essentially, you’d be hard pushed to design a more ridiculous system. The people who benefit the most are those who put the least

The challenges that face the NHS now are completely different than those at its inception.

1. Aging population. A massive proportional of the population is at an age beyond which they contribute directly in income tax and national insurance

2. The quality of the care and the cost of the treatments is thousands of times what it was when we started.

3. Expectations of the public. Everyone assumes they will live to 90, and will do so in good health

4. Refusal by the general population to take any responsibility for their health. (Until the point of disease) see above posts

5. Politicisation of a health service. Totally unnecessary apples and oranges comparisons but subsequent administrations and media reporting means public only hear bad

6. Media obsession leading to litigious overkill leading to ridiculous overspend on risk reduction/safety

7. Media reporting of ‘science’ not actually designed for lay consumption

8. Commercialisation of the NHS. Very few healthcare workers think they work for the NHS, they work for their shitty little bit of it, their trust, which is competing again all the other local trusts. How can one be ‘doing well’? Competition not good. Do we want organisations responsible for their own budgets and actually making money out of people’s sickness?!!

What’s the answer? Reduction in expectations in line with contributions. Effectively a 2-tier system with extra contributions asked for gold standard treatments. Cost effective and proven standard treatment to continue for all free at the point of use. "

Good constructive post on the challenges the NHS now faces

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 30/08/18 19:42:06]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Okay, illnesses associated with lifestyle choice cost the NHS £11 billion a year. This is Health problems related to poor diet, drinking and smoking. Obviously I’m not saying people who have a healthy lifestyle don’t get ill.

But why should people who look after thereselves fund this cost ?"

Who said those other people haven't contributed as much as the supposedly "healthy" people?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?"

It’s a Fair system, if you don’t like it then live in America see what it’s like there, and make sure your wallet is easily accessible if you have an accident there.

The NHS is the greatest institution ever!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?

It’s a Fair system, if you don’t like it then live in America see what it’s like there, and make sure your wallet is easily accessible if you have an accident there.

The NHS is the greatest institution ever!"

Why have I got to move to America, it’s scary and I don’t like driving on the right hand side of the road ?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?

It’s a Fair system, if you don’t like it then live in America see what it’s like there, and make sure your wallet is easily accessible if you have an accident there.

The NHS is the greatest institution ever!

Why have I got to move to America, it’s scary and I don’t like driving on the right hand side of the road ?!"

Then why slag off the way we pay for the NHS then?

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By *uthless!Woman
over a year ago

somewhere close to you


"It’s a fair system for those who don’t pay for it for sure. For everyone else, maybe.

Essentially, you’d be hard pushed to design a more ridiculous system. The people who benefit the most are those who put the least in.

The challenges that face the NHS now are completely different than those at its inception.

1. Aging population. A massive proportional of the population is at an age beyond which they contribute directly in income tax and national insurance

2. The quality of the care and the cost of the treatments is thousands of times what it was when we started.

3. Expectations of the public. Everyone assumes they will live to 90, and will do so in good health

4. Refusal by the general population to take any responsibility for their health. (Until the point of disease) see above posts

5. Politicisation of a health service. Totally unnecessary apples and oranges comparisons but subsequent administrations and media reporting means public only hear bad

6. Media obsession leading to litigious overkill leading to ridiculous overspend on risk reduction/safety

7. Media reporting of ‘science’ not actually designed for lay consumption

8. Commercialisation of the NHS. Very few healthcare workers think they work for the NHS, they work for their shitty little bit of it, their trust, which is competing again all the other local trusts. How can one be ‘doing well’? Competition not good. Do we want organisations responsible for their own budgets and actually making money out of people’s sickness?!!

What’s the answer? Reduction in expectations in line with contributions. Effectively a 2-tier system with extra contributions asked for gold standard treatments. Cost effective and proven standard treatment to continue for all free at the point of use. "

Balanced post with possibly the only sensible and realistic proposal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is it fair for good drivers to pay extra insurance costs for bad drivers? No but there is no better system

Likewise the NHS. Riddled with inefficiencies as it is it is still the best and most cost effective health system in the world. Someone mentioned the USA? I worked there and had huge issues with my health insurance because of 'priors'. (Google it). They pay some 12.5% of their GDP for a system that leaves some 30 Mn folks with no healthcare and they either die or are bankrupted if they fall ill. Those who do have cover face limitations on the bills, exclusions and other ways to get out of paying. The UK NHS costs about 8.5% of GDP to provide 100% care free at point of need. A US domestic health insurance equivalent to the UK NHS cover costs a fortune and why people choose careers for the health Insurance alone ...

The only system I would like to see tried here is the Canadian one where its funded like the UK through taxes but each hospital is privately built, run and maintained. Their unit costs are lower but then the profit margin makes it slightly more expensive than here. But the quality is superb. Of course the Unions and Labour will make sure it never happens as they would screech 'PRIVATISATION OF THE NHS'

To some the NHS is a religion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" What’s the answer? Reduction in expectations in line with contributions. Effectively a 2-tier system with extra contributions asked for gold standard treatments. Cost effective and proven standard treatment to continue for all free at the point of use.

Balanced post with possibly the only sensible and realistic proposal."

we have that already - the NHS is the basic one and BUPA is the gold plated one

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central


"If you walk into an A&E anywhere in this country you will be seen, even if you have a head ache ,this service is free, The NHS is a fair service abused by many and on its knees.Its a system envied by the rest of the world but treated unfairly by the people who it’s trying to help. well some foreigners come off to have treatment for free then go back home! So there has to be something to be put into place and yes it’s a great system but it’s being completely abused."

Abuse is sub 1& and daily heil and express wet dream talk.

It's a fair system but giant corporations should pay more tax to improve services, including the NHS. Americans die younger, largely due to their health care system which is more expensive than the uK and full of bureaucracy costs because of it.

The NHS has made massive contributions to the UK and its population

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?

It’s a Fair system, if you don’t like it then live in America see what it’s like there, and make sure your wallet is easily accessible if you have an accident there.

The NHS is the greatest institution ever!

Why have I got to move to America, it’s scary and I don’t like driving on the right hand side of the road ?!

Then why slag off the way we pay for the NHS then?"

Is the NHS beyond criticism then ?

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By *od_AlmightyMan
over a year ago

Heaven

if you don't think it's fair then don't use it ... simple

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?

It’s a Fair system, if you don’t like it then live in America see what it’s like there, and make sure your wallet is easily accessible if you have an accident there.

The NHS is the greatest institution ever!

Why have I got to move to America, it’s scary and I don’t like driving on the right hand side of the road ?!

Then why slag off the way we pay for the NHS then?

Is the NHS beyond criticism then ?"

Do you think it should?

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford


"Treating alcohol and drug misuse related injuries and illnesses should not be provided by the nhs.

Exactly."

Why?

The cost to society of not treating them is much greater than treating them.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"if you don't think it's fair then don't use it ... simple"

Do I still have to pay towards it though ?

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By *od_AlmightyMan
over a year ago

Heaven


"if you don't think it's fair then don't use it ... simple

Do I still have to pay towards it though ?"

yes... along with trident, the various bars in the house of commons, some roads in the channel islands, primary and secondry school education for other peoples kids, the coastguard, mountain rescue and a load of other stuff that you've probably never or hardly ever used ... if you think it's unfair then go and use them instead of whinging that it's somehow not fair

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"if you don't think it's fair then don't use it ... simple

Do I still have to pay towards it though ?

yes... along with trident, the various bars in the house of commons, some roads in the channel islands, primary and secondry school education for other peoples kids, the coastguard, mountain rescue and a load of other stuff that you've probably never or hardly ever used ... if you think it's unfair then go and use them instead of whinging that it's somehow not fair"

Yawn

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I like the concept of the NHS

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By *od_AlmightyMan
over a year ago

Heaven


"Yawn"

purile

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By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"if you don't think it's fair then don't use it ... simple

Do I still have to pay towards it though ?

yes... along with trident, the various bars in the house of commons, some roads in the channel islands, primary and secondry school education for other peoples kids, the coastguard, mountain rescue and a load of other stuff that you've probably never or hardly ever used ... if you think it's unfair then go and use them instead of whinging that it's somehow not fair

Yawn"
.

I think you've seen the word yawn in the forums but don't actually understand its context, back to the drawing board mate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Yawn.

I think you've seen the word yawn in the forums but don't actually understand its context, back to the drawing board mate "

Yawn

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By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"I like the concept of the NHS "
.

So do I, I'm just in favour of some price incentive, there not mutually exclusive.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

The NHS for all of its financial ups & downs, is still a valued and much needed institution.

Yes, it's over stocked with Managers many of whom are "bean counters" doing Admin roles which are so utterly unnecessary to meet the pointless Targets set by Govt ministers.

But for all the bad things we hear about the NHS, when it comes to the crunch or Emergency times, The NHS is there.

It is a lottery though as some people don't have access to GP's for weeks plus onward medical assistance gets bogged down time wise.

Since I moved to this area 15 months ago, I've had superb medical care & backup from my GP, local hospital and even my dentist; the best ever in the UK for over 20 years.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Treating alcohol and drug misuse related injuries and illnesses should not be provided by the nhs.

Exactly."

Agreed, same should go for other self inflicted injuries, child birth, sports injuries, them pesky road crossers, drivers, cancer sufferers, heart attacks none of them should get free treatment... oh hang on... is that right?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"if you don't think it's fair then don't use it ... simple

Do I still have to pay towards it though ?"

Nope, just leave the country and choose a different system.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The same argument could be applied to flying.

You all pay the way for your seats, yet if your 10kgs over the baggage allowment you get penilised, no matter of your half the weight of another passenger, or twice their weight.

I think there needs to be some sort of 3 strike rule set in place though. For example, I know there’s people out there that have been through 6,7 or 8 kidney transplants through nothing more than neglecting their own health. To me, that’s just neglect and you should get a grip.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The NHS is one of the most precious things we have in this country everyone who is a uk citizen should get treatment free at the point of care. I love the NHS we are so lucky to have it.

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By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"The NHS is one of the most precious things we have in this country everyone who is a uk citizen should get treatment free at the point of care. I love the NHS we are so lucky to have it. "
.

It's not free, nothing is free, somebody somewhere pays for it.

The real question is do we get value for what we pay, I believe that grouping together to pay gives us extra value (like Groupon) however I also believe there should be some price incentive to what we pay which encourages good behaviour.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So only nice thin, non smoking, non drinking people that use the gym regularly should be able to use the NHS? So us fatties, the smokers, the drinkers dont work and subsidise the NHS and pay tax and National Insurance? Are you for real? I’m classed as morbidly obese and work 60+ hours a week, plenty of my wages go to the NHS... should I not be able to use it cos I’m fat?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Look at America where you have people being involved in accidents and then BEGGING other people to NOT call an ambulance because their insurance doesn't cover it and an ambulance ride can cost over $15,000 in some states. Sounds fun yeah? That's the alternative. And hey, to the bloke saying he's being ripped off because he has to pay £7.20 for a prescription when someone on benefits gets it for free, come to America, enjoy the private run corporate healthcare where that same medicine would cost between $500-3,000 but hey, at least those scroungers on benefits can't get it right?

Good grief, people complaining about the NHS when it's still one of the best services in the world and where most of the recent faults are down to our own government trying to starve it so it begs to become a private corporate service just like the tories want.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Treating alcohol and drug misuse related injuries and illnesses should not be provided by the nhs. "

States a smoker - you couldn't make it up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Treating alcohol and drug misuse related injuries and illnesses should not be provided by the nhs.

Exactly."

Let's exclude gingers too eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think the system is fair but very annoying when they discharge people before they are fit to go home "

By whose reckoning, yours?

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman
over a year ago

evesham


"The same argument could be applied to flying.

You all pay the way for your seats, yet if your 10kgs over the baggage allowment you get penilised, no matter of your half the weight of another passenger, or twice their weight.

I think there needs to be some sort of 3 strike rule set in place though. For example, I know there’s people out there that have been through 6,7 or 8 kidney transplants through nothing more than neglecting their own health. To me, that’s just neglect and you should get a grip. "

Yeah..... That relates to the handling of the baggage, not the fact its on a plane.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think the system is fair but very annoying when they discharge people before they are fit to go home

Yes, there is a culture of getting people home quickly when they might not be fully fit. "

Fully fit and medically fit for discharge are two different animals.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"82% of the price of a pack of fags is tax. Moreover as smokers die younger they are less likely to need expensive end of life care. "

What a ridiculous statement.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Treating alcohol and drug misuse related injuries and illnesses should not be provided by the nhs.

Exactly.

Let's exclude gingers too eh?"

What a ridulous statement/ question !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"82% of the price of a pack of fags is tax. Moreover as smokers die younger they are less likely to need expensive end of life care.

What a ridiculous statement."

Well it's not really, less pension to pay, plus less old age medical care, and helps the housing problem. Could be on to something.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"I think the system is fair but very annoying when they discharge people before they are fit to go home

Yes, there is a culture of getting people home quickly when they might not be fully fit.

Fully fit and medically fit for discharge are two different animals."

Yes they are but in our experience the pressures on staff, a and e staff particularly, mean that the definition of medically fit can be loose. My 84 year old mother was discharged from a and e with a fractured vertebra. The following weekend was hell for everyone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Treating alcohol and drug misuse related injuries and illnesses should not be provided by the nhs.

Exactly.

Let's exclude gingers too eh?

What a ridulous statement/ question !"

I know. Just as ridiculous as the post you agreed with.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"82% of the price of a pack of fags is tax. Moreover as smokers die younger they are less likely to need expensive end of life care.

What a ridiculous statement.

Well it's not really, less pension to pay, plus less old age medical care, and helps the housing problem. Could be on to something. "

If someone is in receipt of end of life care, it's no less costly if they are 57 or 87! It's all about what the care involves and the duration.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The same argument could be applied to flying.

You all pay the way for your seats, yet if your 10kgs over the baggage allowment you get penilised, no matter of your half the weight of another passenger, or twice their weight.

I think there needs to be some sort of 3 strike rule set in place though. For example, I know there’s people out there that have been through 6,7 or 8 kidney transplants through nothing more than neglecting their own health. To me, that’s just neglect and you should get a grip. "

I would be very surprised if anyone had that many transplants. But more than 1 is not uncommon, the body can reject an organ some tine after transplant and not necessarily due to poor life style

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think the system is fair but very annoying when they discharge people before they are fit to go home

Yes, there is a culture of getting people home quickly when they might not be fully fit.

Fully fit and medically fit for discharge are two different animals.

Yes they are but in our experience the pressures on staff, a and e staff particularly, mean that the definition of medically fit can be loose. My 84 year old mother was discharged from a and e with a fractured vertebra. The following weekend was hell for everyone."

If there is nothing one of the medical/surgical teams can do, then a person is better off rehabilitating in their own homes than being in hospital. Of course there are failed discharges, but some of these are not medical but social.

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By *anana JoeMan
over a year ago

Sheffield

Life isn't fair full stop. The rich subsidise the poor the intelligent subsidise the dumb the healthy subsidise the ill is it fair a quirk of fate on a genetic negative should mean you are not entitled to things. If you are fit healthy wealthy and intelligent rejoice in your good fortune and don't begrudge helping someone who isn't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"82% of the price of a pack of fags is tax. Moreover as smokers die younger they are less likely to need expensive end of life care.

What a ridiculous statement.

Well it's not really, less pension to pay, plus less old age medical care, and helps the housing problem. Could be on to something.

If someone is in receipt of end of life care, it's no less costly if they are 57 or 87! It's all about what the care involves and the duration."

But at 57 you will not have received 22 years pension, and your house is available for 're use 30 years earlier. And that doeesnt include the 30 years of possible skiing accidents etc. I think whoever it was that suggested smoking may be on to something

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The NHS is one of the most precious things we have in this country everyone who is a uk citizen should get treatment free at the point of care. I love the NHS we are so lucky to have it. .

It's not free, nothing is free, somebody somewhere pays for it.

The real question is do we get value for what we pay, I believe that grouping together to pay gives us extra value (like Groupon) however I also believe there should be some price incentive to what we pay which encourages good behaviour."

Yes it's paid for through taxes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?"

I may be wrong but it was never meant to be fair.

If we all used this system 'equally' it would have failed within weeks.

And that is still the case as of today.

But for those that rarely use the NHS;

Think about all the practice our doctors,surgeons, the whole medical profession gained curing the sick and injured.

Or would you like to go under the knife of the 'I'm not great at fixing hearts' but I'll have a stab at it'.

We have the sick to thank for the skills our medical professions have gained, not the healthy

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London


"82% of the price of a pack of fags is tax. Moreover as smokers die younger they are less likely to need expensive end of life care.

What a ridiculous statement.

Well it's not really, less pension to pay, plus less old age medical care, and helps the housing problem. Could be on to something.

If someone is in receipt of end of life care, it's no less costly if they are 57 or 87! It's all about what the care involves and the duration."

If you live to 87 you are likely to have multiple medical care needs towards the end of your life that you would not have if you conked our at 57.

Also, the person dying at 87 has 30 years more use of the NHS than the person dying at 57. Not to mention getting a state pension for twenty years whilst our early deceased smoker gets nothing.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

Just looked up the stats. Tax on tobacco brings in £9 billion a year. The cost to the NHS of treating smoking related illnesses is something between £3 and £6 billion a year.

So smokers clearly cover the cost of their NHS treatment.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"I think the system is fair but very annoying when they discharge people before they are fit to go home

Yes, there is a culture of getting people home quickly when they might not be fully fit.

Fully fit and medically fit for discharge are two different animals.

Yes they are but in our experience the pressures on staff, a and e staff particularly, mean that the definition of medically fit can be loose. My 84 year old mother was discharged from a and e with a fractured vertebra. The following weekend was hell for everyone.

If there is nothing one of the medical/surgical teams can do, then a person is better off rehabilitating in their own homes than being in hospital. Of course there are failed discharges, but some of these are not medical but social."

I think discharging someone 11 hours after being admitted with a fractured vertebra into the care of a 90 year old man was a medical and social failure.

I think the NHS is great but in this instance a bad mistake was made

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just looked up the stats. Tax on tobacco brings in £9 billion a year. The cost to the NHS of treating smoking related illnesses is something between £3 and £6 billion a year.

So smokers clearly cover the cost of their NHS treatment. "

IF the taxes from smoking were paid directly to the NHS I would agree, but they are not, so to use that as an argument is irrelevant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’ve no doubt that it’s not strictly a fair system but it’s the best we’ve got and a darn sight better than most. Let’s see the positives, yes mistakes are made but on the whole the care is exemplary.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"82% of the price of a pack of fags is tax. Moreover as smokers die younger they are less likely to need expensive end of life care.

What a ridiculous statement.

Well it's not really, less pension to pay, plus less old age medical care, and helps the housing problem. Could be on to something.

If someone is in receipt of end of life care, it's no less costly if they are 57 or 87! It's all about what the care involves and the duration.

But at 57 you will not have received 22 years pension, and your house is available for 're use 30 years earlier. And that doeesnt include the 30 years of possible skiing accidents etc. I think whoever it was that suggested smoking may be on to something"

I am keeping my thoughts and hence post in the narrow remit of "end of life care", ie healthcare.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London


"Just looked up the stats. Tax on tobacco brings in £9 billion a year. The cost to the NHS of treating smoking related illnesses is something between £3 and £6 billion a year.

So smokers clearly cover the cost of their NHS treatment.

IF the taxes from smoking were paid directly to the NHS I would agree, but they are not, so to use that as an argument is irrelevant.

"

It's not irrelevant,

The government has to find an extra £3 billion to £6 billion in taxes because people smoke. Smokers actually contribute £9 billion in taxes that they wouldn't pay if they didn't smoke.

Hence smokers more than pay for the cost of their habit to the state.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"82% of the price of a pack of fags is tax. Moreover as smokers die younger they are less likely to need expensive end of life care.

What a ridiculous statement.

Well it's not really, less pension to pay, plus less old age medical care, and helps the housing problem. Could be on to something.

If someone is in receipt of end of life care, it's no less costly if they are 57 or 87! It's all about what the care involves and the duration.

If you live to 87 you are likely to have multiple medical care needs towards the end of your life that you would not have if you conked our at 57.

Also, the person dying at 87 has 30 years more use of the NHS than the person dying at 57. Not to mention getting a state pension for twenty years whilst our early deceased smoker gets nothing. "

"End of life" care opinion stated, nothing else!

I do wish people would read . Otherwise I'd discussed co-morbidities

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just looked up the stats. Tax on tobacco brings in £9 billion a year. The cost to the NHS of treating smoking related illnesses is something between £3 and £6 billion a year.

So smokers clearly cover the cost of their NHS treatment. "

Yes cos it all clearly goes to the NHS

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I think the system is fair but very annoying when they discharge people before they are fit to go home

Yes, there is a culture of getting people home quickly when they might not be fully fit.

Fully fit and medically fit for discharge are two different animals.

Yes they are but in our experience the pressures on staff, a and e staff particularly, mean that the definition of medically fit can be loose. My 84 year old mother was discharged from a and e with a fractured vertebra. The following weekend was hell for everyone.

If there is nothing one of the medical/surgical teams can do, then a person is better off rehabilitating in their own homes than being in hospital. Of course there are failed discharges, but some of these are not medical but social.

I think discharging someone 11 hours after being admitted with a fractured vertebra into the care of a 90 year old man was a medical and social failure.

I think the NHS is great but in this instance a bad mistake was made "

Mistakes do happen but i couldn't comment upon this being one. Hospitals are mainly places of proactive clinical care - she may not have met the criteria. If you believe the decision was wrong then seek PALS advice.

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By *alking DisasterWoman
over a year ago

South Oxfordshire


"I think the system is fair but very annoying when they discharge people before they are fit to go home

Yes, there is a culture of getting people home quickly when they might not be fully fit.

Fully fit and medically fit for discharge are two different animals.

Yes they are but in our experience the pressures on staff, a and e staff particularly, mean that the definition of medically fit can be loose. My 84 year old mother was discharged from a and e with a fractured vertebra. The following weekend was hell for everyone.

If there is nothing one of the medical/surgical teams can do, then a person is better off rehabilitating in their own homes than being in hospital. Of course there are failed discharges, but some of these are not medical but social.

I think discharging someone 11 hours after being admitted with a fractured vertebra into the care of a 90 year old man was a medical and social failure.

I think the NHS is great but in this instance a bad mistake was made "

That's a social care need, not a medical one. The problem is NHS and social care are two entities, they are not joined up. Social care is the poor relation to the NHS.

Yes, your mother shouldn't have been discharged into the care of your father, but it's the lack of standby care home beds that's the issue. She can't stay in hospital if there is no medical need for her to do so (it's called bed blocking which means patients wait in A&E or hospital corridors).

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London


"Just looked up the stats. Tax on tobacco brings in £9 billion a year. The cost to the NHS of treating smoking related illnesses is something between £3 and £6 billion a year.

So smokers clearly cover the cost of their NHS treatment.

Yes cos it all clearly goes to the NHS "

Look at it this way.

The government has a big box of money that it uses to pay for everything. Hospitals, pensions, nuclear weapons etc etc.

One day they count all their money and discover they are £6 billion short because they forgot to account for the costs of smoking related illnesses. They decide to whop a massive tax on smokers that brings in £9 billion.

They put the £9 billion in their box and the proceed to pay for everything, nuclear weapons, pensions, smoking related illnesses and so on.

Hence smokers are paying for the shortfall to public funds caused by their habit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Just looked up the stats. Tax on tobacco brings in £9 billion a year. The cost to the NHS of treating smoking related illnesses is something between £3 and £6 billion a year.

So smokers clearly cover the cost of their NHS treatment.

Yes cos it all clearly goes to the NHS

Look at it this way.

The government has a big box of money that it uses to pay for everything. Hospitals, pensions, nuclear weapons etc etc.

One day they count all their money and discover they are £6 billion short because they forgot to account for the costs of smoking related illnesses. They decide to whop a massive tax on smokers that brings in £9 billion.

They put the £9 billion in their box and the proceed to pay for everything, nuclear weapons, pensions, smoking related illnesses and so on.

Hence smokers are paying for the shortfall to public funds caused by their habit. "

If only it was that simple

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London


"Just looked up the stats. Tax on tobacco brings in £9 billion a year. The cost to the NHS of treating smoking related illnesses is something between £3 and £6 billion a year.

So smokers clearly cover the cost of their NHS treatment.

Yes cos it all clearly goes to the NHS

Look at it this way.

The government has a big box of money that it uses to pay for everything. Hospitals, pensions, nuclear weapons etc etc.

One day they count all their money and discover they are £6 billion short because they forgot to account for the costs of smoking related illnesses. They decide to whop a massive tax on smokers that brings in £9 billion.

They put the £9 billion in their box and the proceed to pay for everything, nuclear weapons, pensions, smoking related illnesses and so on.

Hence smokers are paying for the shortfall to public funds caused by their habit.

If only it was that simple "

In broad terns it is. Smokers cause a loss of £6 billion to the public purse due to their habit. As they pay in an extra £9 billion to the public purse, they more than cover this loss.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Is it fair that people who look after thereselves, eat healthy, exercise regularly, don’t smoke, don’t drink (or in moderation), subsidise people who do the opposite in excess ?

If it’s not what’s the alternative ?"

Lets negotiate;

All us that smoke, drink, use drugs and lead an unhealthy lifestyle will agree not to receive any further healthcare.

If!

You and your followers agree to.

Forego all the medical expertise that has been gained by the NHS medical professions.

And revert back to:

Being strapped to a cold wooden bench and set about with filthy knifes, blood soaked rags, cold germ ridden buckets of water, no antibiotics or medication above a clod of moss.

Deal ?

Go back far enough and you will encounter the likes of Burke and Hare, the infamous grave robbers/murderers.

A little further and you will find:

Prisoners being autopsied whilst still alive.

All done under the 'advance of medical science' claims.

It's not just the cash you pay matey!

Days ago I was asked a question by BrokenBrilliance

''is society failing''

My belief is;

For many ''Humanity is broken'' - the attitudes being displayed here confirms this.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"I think the system is fair but very annoying when they discharge people before they are fit to go home

Yes, there is a culture of getting people home quickly when they might not be fully fit.

Fully fit and medically fit for discharge are two different animals.

Yes they are but in our experience the pressures on staff, a and e staff particularly, mean that the definition of medically fit can be loose. My 84 year old mother was discharged from a and e with a fractured vertebra. The following weekend was hell for everyone.

If there is nothing one of the medical/surgical teams can do, then a person is better off rehabilitating in their own homes than being in hospital. Of course there are failed discharges, but some of these are not medical but social.

I think discharging someone 11 hours after being admitted with a fractured vertebra into the care of a 90 year old man was a medical and social failure.

I think the NHS is great but in this instance a bad mistake was made

Mistakes do happen but i couldn't comment upon this being one. Hospitals are mainly places of proactive clinical care - she may not have met the criteria. If you believe the decision was wrong then seek PALS advice."

I know the decision was wrong. It was two years ago, we know mistakes happen, no lasting damage was done we don't want to waste NHS resources by taking it further. I do know that when my mum's taken to hospital now I make sure I'm there with her until I'm happy that she's ok to be discharged or she's admitted.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

BREAKING:

NHS still along way off, experts warn.

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