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"We moved away from the London suburbs because of this. The problems that were related to the inner London boroughs are now being pushed out to the suburbs due to regeneration and only the higher earners can afford to live there! " Or as you and the poster above as hit on, hard working immigrants. | |||
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"Those pesky immigrants, destroying our country again  ". That's just what the Palestinians/Jewish said  | |||
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"How many years away are we from policing the streets ourselves? " None. 95% of burglaries are never solved. We don't really have a police force with any intention of preventing crime. We have a CCTV network that occasionally records it. | |||
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"I agree it's getting worse, I moved from inner-city Birmingham to the countryside but even here you get arsehole teens causing trouble with nothing better to do. I don't really know what we can do to sort it out. The people that are usually causing trouble are the ones that have come from families that don't know how to punish. My son is 15, polite, clever, respectful. I think parents of children what misbehave should be forced to do parenting classes. Neither parent nor child should be allowed to get away with it "  | |||
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"I agree it's getting worse, I moved from inner-city Birmingham to the countryside but even here you get arsehole teens causing trouble with nothing better to do. I don't really know what we can do to sort it out. The people that are usually causing trouble are the ones that have come from families that don't know how to punish. My son is 15, polite, clever, respectful. I think parents of children what misbehave should be forced to do parenting classes. Neither parent nor child should be allowed to get away with it " It's worse than that. It's primarily boys raised in dysfunctional households who then get used to the 'excitement' of chaos and live their adult ways choatically to 'feel alive'. They are addicted to being twats basically and guess how their kids turn out. | |||
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"I think that rising inequalities due to government action, with corresponding cuts to local services, is an inappropriate position for the country, due to the predictable effects it has for the people." I agree with the inequality relationship, but you can't place it all on the hands of government. It's a combination of those at the bottom checking out of life and won't help themselves. Then those at the top being helped by government to help themselves. | |||
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"Bring back national service. " So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong..." Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul. | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong..." And to be fair their parents and teachers have already failed. The permissive society has failed. Some would say that multi-culturalism has failed. | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... And to be fair their parents and teachers have already failed. The permissive society has failed. Some would say that multi-culturalism has failed. " Multi cultralism is a meaningless term. No crime is happening because some people want to celebrate Hanukkah instead of Christmas. A multi-value society is doomed to fail. | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul." The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul. The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. " Then what to do with these failed humans? Let's face it, they will always be a drain on society. So what to do with them? | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul. The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Then what to do with these failed humans? Let's face it, they will always be a drain on society. So what to do with them?" That's the biggest question isn't it. As Jordan Peterson said on this very issue, the problem is that the solutions from the left don't work and those on the right don't care. | |||
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"As part of the job I have some police liaison work. They say that 90% of all crime is drug related in some way. It covers all areas of the country these days and not just the 'deprived' areas. Drug users can never get enough money to fund the habit so crime rises, along with the associated social issues." Legalise drugs let the government sell it. | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul. The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Then what to do with these failed humans? Let's face it, they will always be a drain on society. So what to do with them? That's the biggest question isn't it. As Jordan Peterson said on this very issue, the problem is that the solutions from the left don't work and those on the right don't care. " So what's your answer? | |||
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"As part of the job I have some police liaison work. They say that 90% of all crime is drug related in some way. It covers all areas of the country these days and not just the 'deprived' areas. Drug users can never get enough money to fund the habit so crime rises, along with the associated social issues. Legalise drugs let the government sell it. " well yes looks that way so they can take over from the dealers and take their money and spend it on their holiday homes and hookers and private child care in some silver spoon school | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul. The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Then what to do with these failed humans? Let's face it, they will always be a drain on society. So what to do with them? That's the biggest question isn't it. As Jordan Peterson said on this very issue, the problem is that the solutions from the left don't work and those on the right don't care. So what's your answer?" What's my simple answer to complex problems? I'll have to come up with a sound bite and tweet it later. | |||
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"As part of the job I have some police liaison work. They say that 90% of all crime is drug related in some way. It covers all areas of the country these days and not just the 'deprived' areas. Drug users can never get enough money to fund the habit so crime rises, along with the associated social issues. Legalise drugs let the government sell it. well yes looks that way so they can take over from the dealers and take their money and spend it on their holiday homes and hookers and private child care in some silver spoon school "Id much rather that. | |||
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"As part of the job I have some police liaison work. They say that 90% of all crime is drug related in some way. It covers all areas of the country these days and not just the 'deprived' areas. Drug users can never get enough money to fund the habit so crime rises, along with the associated social issues. Legalise drugs let the government sell it. well yes looks that way so they can take over from the dealers and take their money and spend it on their holiday homes and hookers and private child care in some silver spoon school
Id much rather that. "The thing is they will probably legalise cannabis which will net them some money but it wouldn’t be the same which is on the streets which is sprayed in all sorts and have the same strength,if anything is made legal the people who take it will want something stronger.The problem is heroin which they will not legalise plus crack and monkey dust which are affecting the communities families and retail theft and burglaries are through the roof as a result of these drugs. | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul. The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Then what to do with these failed humans? Let's face it, they will always be a drain on society. So what to do with them?" . Some will always exist, the question is how low we can get that % through policy. Now let's take cocaine, in Japan (a liberal county like ours) they give you a year in the slammer if your caught taking it (along with rehabilitation programmes), the idea is to enforce a societal attitude of wrongfulness!. Here the attitude is, well it isn't really your personal fault, it's some element of society or ism to blame. Japan has a fraction of our drug problems and a fraction of our crime rate. I would however stipulate that Japan also strongly favours the "family" and marriage. | |||
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"As part of the job I have some police liaison work. They say that 90% of all crime is drug related in some way. It covers all areas of the country these days and not just the 'deprived' areas. Drug users can never get enough money to fund the habit so crime rises, along with the associated social issues. Legalise drugs let the government sell it. well yes looks that way so they can take over from the dealers and take their money and spend it on their holiday homes and hookers and private child care in some silver spoon school
Id much rather that. "Bollucks. Heroin was legal in China for a while, absolute fucking disaster. Countries need a population of drug addicts like I need aids. | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul. The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. " Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. | |||
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"Bring back national service. " No thanks, we're professional soldiers in the military these days, we wouldn't want hordes of badly behaved scrotes who don't want to be there anyway. I don't disagree with the idea of some form of national service but it shouldn't necessarily be with the military. | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul. The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army." Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. | |||
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"As part of the job I have some police liaison work. They say that 90% of all crime is drug related in some way. It covers all areas of the country these days and not just the 'deprived' areas. Drug users can never get enough money to fund the habit so crime rises, along with the associated social issues. Legalise drugs let the government sell it. well yes looks that way so they can take over from the dealers and take their money and spend it on their holiday homes and hookers and private child care in some silver spoon school
Id much rather that.
Bollucks. Heroin was legal in China for a while, absolute fucking disaster. Countries need a population of drug addicts like I need aids. "Just because a drug is legal it dosent make it mandatory!  i could spend my day drinking vodka and laying in a ditch. I choose not to do that. | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul. The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. " To be honest i don't think you know what a chav is. In my experience chavs do actually work. You'll find them drinking their wages away at "Yates" and gambling. | |||
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" So what's your answer? What's my simple answer to complex problems? I'll have to come up with a sound bite and tweet it later. " Society needs to be re-architected for the modern world. Since the 80s, the Neoliberals have been dismantling everything that was not relevant to the wealthy. And changing the economics of the world to funnel money into the hands of the few. Most Western democracies are suffering in a similar way. It doesn't filter down as promised, it stays locked up on one side of an ever increasing gap. Those on the wrong side of that gap, start the game with the odds severely against them. But the balance of power lies in the hands of people with no inclination to change the above. | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul. The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. To be honest i don't think you know what a chav is. In my experience chavs do actually work. You'll find them drinking their wages away at "Yates" and gambling. " In my experience they don't. I don't have a problem with people gambling and drinking in Yates, I doubt most people do. | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul. The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. To be honest i don't think you know what a chav is. In my experience chavs do actually work. You'll find them drinking their wages away at "Yates" and gambling. In my experience they don't. I don't have a problem with people gambling and drinking in Yates, I doubt most people do. " I'm just pointing out that "chavs" are not those people currently stabbing, shooting and committing scooter based crime. | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul. The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. " Lol The .5% of the Army that is the Guards/Cavalry officer class are really an anomaly, and actually highlight what is really wrong with this country. Privilege and wealth gives people access to choices and options they don't deserve. Whilst the absence of those things limit the rest of the population. | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul. The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. To be honest i don't think you know what a chav is. In my experience chavs do actually work. You'll find them drinking their wages away at "Yates" and gambling. In my experience they don't. I don't have a problem with people gambling and drinking in Yates, I doubt most people do. I'm just pointing out that "chavs" are not those people currently stabbing, shooting and committing scooter based crime. " What would you call them? | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... Well we could see how tough gang members really are while they patrol the streets of kabul. The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. Lol The .5% of the Army that is the Guards/Cavalry officer class are really an anomaly, and actually highlight what is really wrong with this country. Privilege and wealth gives people access to choices and options they don't deserve. Whilst the absence of those things limit the rest of the population." Zero sum fallacy. Have you ever researched history and asked yourself if those at the bottom of society are living better or worse than they did 150 years ago? I do get that income inequality is an issue, but when you exclusive focus on the relative and not absolute living standards, you delude yourself into a world view that ignores what's in front of your eyes. | |||
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"We moved away from the London suburbs because of this. The problems that were related to the inner London boroughs are now being pushed out to the suburbs due to regeneration and only the higher earners can afford to live there! " However, as someone that lives a few miles outside London, we have seen a growth of people from London, selling their council house for a ridiculous amount of money, moving out here buying a house and a 5 year old BMW X5 from the profit and still trying to act like East London geezers... | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... And to be fair their parents and teachers have already failed. The permissive society has failed. Some would say that multi-culturalism has failed. " or the parents and teachers have been failed. I know of someone close to me who disciplined her wayward son by removing his internet and Xbox access. Her child then rang social services and accused his mum of all sorts. While it was found to be just malicious. She was still cautioned and had to go through all that . Just because her son knew that cry child abuse and they come flocking. She was also advised by the social workers that taking his internet and Xbox was to harsh. 
I don't think it will soon matter where you live. We have lost what once was. I wouldn't have dared back chat an adult. Or mouth off to a police officer. But these days you barely dare pull up even young ones.
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... And to be fair their parents and teachers have already failed. The permissive society has failed. Some would say that multi-culturalism has failed. or the parents and teachers have been failed. I know of someone close to me who disciplined her wayward son by removing his internet and Xbox access. Her child then rang social services and accused his mum of all sorts. While it was found to be just malicious. She was still cautioned and had to go through all that . Just because her son knew that cry child abuse and they come flocking. She was also advised by the social workers that taking his internet and Xbox was to harsh.
I don't think it will soon matter where you live. We have lost what once was. I wouldn't have dared back chat an adult. Or mouth off to a police officer. But these days you barely dare pull up even young ones.
"Good example of where policy is the problem, not funding | |||
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" The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. Lol The .5% of the Army that is the Guards/Cavalry officer class are really an anomaly, and actually highlight what is really wrong with this country. Privilege and wealth gives people access to choices and options they don't deserve. Whilst the absence of those things limit the rest of the population. Zero sum fallacy. Have you ever researched history and asked yourself if those at the bottom of society are living better or worse than they did 150 years ago? I do get that income inequality is an issue, but when you exclusive focus on the relative and not absolute living standards, you delude yourself into a world view that ignores what's in front of your eyes. " I'm not quite sure of your point. I wasn't talking about living standards (though I would suggest the huge increase in working people needing to turn to food banks is not a good indicator). I was talking about the advantage that being significantly more wealthy than others gives you. It's why our banks, the civil service, even Parliament is stuffed full of, at best, slightly above average white males, from backgrounds where finding enough money for the next meal was not a problem. Whether those people at the bottom are not in quite as bad a position as they were 200 years ago makes no difference. On the whole they and their children will find it very difficult to get off the bottom rung, and it seems to be getting harder and harder. | |||
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"Bring back national service. So the military can do the role of parents and teachers? What could go wrong... And to be fair their parents and teachers have already failed. The permissive society has failed. Some would say that multi-culturalism has failed. or the parents and teachers have been failed. I know of someone close to me who disciplined her wayward son by removing his internet and Xbox access. Her child then rang social services and accused his mum of all sorts. While it was found to be just malicious. She was still cautioned and had to go through all that . Just because her son knew that cry child abuse and they come flocking. She was also advised by the social workers that taking his internet and Xbox was to harsh.
I don't think it will soon matter where you live. We have lost what once was. I wouldn't have dared back chat an adult. Or mouth off to a police officer. But these days you barely dare pull up even young ones.
Good example of where policy is the problem, not funding
"I think that is more an example of a poor implementation or understanding of policy. In general the policy of investigating when a child is claiming to be abused is probably a good thing, don't you think? I very much doubt that the Social Worker handbook says that taking an xbox away is harsh... | |||
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"It’s shocking where I live ... not so much guns but knife crime " Get caught with a knife you should get 15 years no excuses...there's only 1 reason why these little thugs carry knives...shit houses!! | |||
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" The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. Lol The .5% of the Army that is the Guards/Cavalry officer class are really an anomaly, and actually highlight what is really wrong with this country. Privilege and wealth gives people access to choices and options they don't deserve. Whilst the absence of those things limit the rest of the population. Zero sum fallacy. Have you ever researched history and asked yourself if those at the bottom of society are living better or worse than they did 150 years ago? I do get that income inequality is an issue, but when you exclusive focus on the relative and not absolute living standards, you delude yourself into a world view that ignores what's in front of your eyes. I'm not quite sure of your point. I wasn't talking about living standards (though I would suggest the huge increase in working people needing to turn to food banks is not a good indicator). I was talking about the advantage that being significantly more wealthy than others gives you. It's why our banks, the civil service, even Parliament is stuffed full of, at best, slightly above average white males, from backgrounds where finding enough money for the next meal was not a problem. Whether those people at the bottom are not in quite as bad a position as they were 200 years ago makes no difference. On the whole they and their children will find it very difficult to get off the bottom rung, and it seems to be getting harder and harder. " . I'm going to tell you why we're seeing the highest inequality for a century. Socialism! Plain and simple. In 2008 we saw those very core socialist ideas of subsidy, bailout and nobody is a failure put to use in the world financial industry (not banking). If we could just get back to good old proper capitalism of failure (loss) and reward (gain) you'd see the inequality soon shrink | |||
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" The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. Lol The .5% of the Army that is the Guards/Cavalry officer class are really an anomaly, and actually highlight what is really wrong with this country. Privilege and wealth gives people access to choices and options they don't deserve. Whilst the absence of those things limit the rest of the population. Zero sum fallacy. Have you ever researched history and asked yourself if those at the bottom of society are living better or worse than they did 150 years ago? I do get that income inequality is an issue, but when you exclusive focus on the relative and not absolute living standards, you delude yourself into a world view that ignores what's in front of your eyes. I'm not quite sure of your point. I wasn't talking about living standards (though I would suggest the huge increase in working people needing to turn to food banks is not a good indicator). I was talking about the advantage that being significantly more wealthy than others gives you. It's why our banks, the civil service, even Parliament is stuffed full of, at best, slightly above average white males, from backgrounds where finding enough money for the next meal was not a problem. Whether those people at the bottom are not in quite as bad a position as they were 200 years ago makes no difference. On the whole they and their children will find it very difficult to get off the bottom rung, and it seems to be getting harder and harder. " So there's a lot of problems here. Food banks aren't evidence of anything. There's one food bank that actually provides figures on its usage and it's grown as it's funding has. It was actually started in the new Labour years because they saw a need for it then. It's impossible to say the demand wasn't there at the time, but we know the supply wasn't. It's an order of magnitude easier to get off the bottom now than 150 years ago. Your tone of "not quite as bad as 200 years ago" is very facetious. If you actually researched how much living standards have improved then your hardcore leftist world view would probably come crashing down. That isn't to say that inequality isn't a problem. It is. There's plenty of privilege passed from generation to generation. You can make a sensible arguement that this has been getting worse for the past 20-40 years, but to pretend the long term trend isn't clearly up is intellectually dishonest. | |||
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" The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. Lol The .5% of the Army that is the Guards/Cavalry officer class are really an anomaly, and actually highlight what is really wrong with this country. Privilege and wealth gives people access to choices and options they don't deserve. Whilst the absence of those things limit the rest of the population. Zero sum fallacy. Have you ever researched history and asked yourself if those at the bottom of society are living better or worse than they did 150 years ago? I do get that income inequality is an issue, but when you exclusive focus on the relative and not absolute living standards, you delude yourself into a world view that ignores what's in front of your eyes. I'm not quite sure of your point. I wasn't talking about living standards (though I would suggest the huge increase in working people needing to turn to food banks is not a good indicator). I was talking about the advantage that being significantly more wealthy than others gives you. It's why our banks, the civil service, even Parliament is stuffed full of, at best, slightly above average white males, from backgrounds where finding enough money for the next meal was not a problem. Whether those people at the bottom are not in quite as bad a position as they were 200 years ago makes no difference. On the whole they and their children will find it very difficult to get off the bottom rung, and it seems to be getting harder and harder. . I'm going to tell you why we're seeing the highest inequality for a century. Socialism! Plain and simple. In 2008 we saw those very core socialist ideas of subsidy, bailout and nobody is a failure put to use in the world financial industry (not banking). If we could just get back to good old proper capitalism of failure (loss) and reward (gain) you'd see the inequality soon shrink " Hmmm, okay. Apart from the reason the wheels fell off was entirely down to market capitalists, easing the regulation off (That had been put in place the last time the happened). Every bank is involved in those financial markets though. Do you think we should have let them fail, so all those ordinary savers lost their money. Just about every country in the world propped up the banks, whatever style of government was in place. | |||
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" The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. Lol The .5% of the Army that is the Guards/Cavalry officer class are really an anomaly, and actually highlight what is really wrong with this country. Privilege and wealth gives people access to choices and options they don't deserve. Whilst the absence of those things limit the rest of the population. Zero sum fallacy. Have you ever researched history and asked yourself if those at the bottom of society are living better or worse than they did 150 years ago? I do get that income inequality is an issue, but when you exclusive focus on the relative and not absolute living standards, you delude yourself into a world view that ignores what's in front of your eyes. I'm not quite sure of your point. I wasn't talking about living standards (though I would suggest the huge increase in working people needing to turn to food banks is not a good indicator). I was talking about the advantage that being significantly more wealthy than others gives you. It's why our banks, the civil service, even Parliament is stuffed full of, at best, slightly above average white males, from backgrounds where finding enough money for the next meal was not a problem. Whether those people at the bottom are not in quite as bad a position as they were 200 years ago makes no difference. On the whole they and their children will find it very difficult to get off the bottom rung, and it seems to be getting harder and harder. So there's a lot of problems here. Food banks aren't evidence of anything. There's one food bank that actually provides figures on its usage and it's grown as it's funding has. It was actually started in the new Labour years because they saw a need for it then. It's impossible to say the demand wasn't there at the time, but we know the supply wasn't. It's an order of magnitude easier to get off the bottom now than 150 years ago. Your tone of "not quite as bad as 200 years ago" is very facetious. If you actually researched how much living standards have improved then your hardcore leftist world view would probably come crashing down. That isn't to say that inequality isn't a problem. It is. There's plenty of privilege passed from generation to generation. You can make a sensible arguement that this has been getting worse for the past 20-40 years, but to pretend the long term trend isn't clearly up is intellectually dishonest. " ...and your typical right wing attitude (aren't we both making assumptions here?) of the only measure that matters is the monetary value of something is quite telling... | |||
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" The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. Lol The .5% of the Army that is the Guards/Cavalry officer class are really an anomaly, and actually highlight what is really wrong with this country. Privilege and wealth gives people access to choices and options they don't deserve. Whilst the absence of those things limit the rest of the population. Zero sum fallacy. Have you ever researched history and asked yourself if those at the bottom of society are living better or worse than they did 150 years ago? I do get that income inequality is an issue, but when you exclusive focus on the relative and not absolute living standards, you delude yourself into a world view that ignores what's in front of your eyes. I'm not quite sure of your point. I wasn't talking about living standards (though I would suggest the huge increase in working people needing to turn to food banks is not a good indicator). I was talking about the advantage that being significantly more wealthy than others gives you. It's why our banks, the civil service, even Parliament is stuffed full of, at best, slightly above average white males, from backgrounds where finding enough money for the next meal was not a problem. Whether those people at the bottom are not in quite as bad a position as they were 200 years ago makes no difference. On the whole they and their children will find it very difficult to get off the bottom rung, and it seems to be getting harder and harder. So there's a lot of problems here. Food banks aren't evidence of anything. There's one food bank that actually provides figures on its usage and it's grown as it's funding has. It was actually started in the new Labour years because they saw a need for it then. It's impossible to say the demand wasn't there at the time, but we know the supply wasn't. It's an order of magnitude easier to get off the bottom now than 150 years ago. Your tone of "not quite as bad as 200 years ago" is very facetious. If you actually researched how much living standards have improved then your hardcore leftist world view would probably come crashing down. That isn't to say that inequality isn't a problem. It is. There's plenty of privilege passed from generation to generation. You can make a sensible arguement that this has been getting worse for the past 20-40 years, but to pretend the long term trend isn't clearly up is intellectually dishonest. ...and your typical right wing attitude (aren't we both making assumptions here?) of the only measure that matters is the monetary value of something is quite telling..." Ok what measure do you want me to look at to realise that the bottom of society hasn't changed much in 150 years? Infant mortality? Literacy? Life expectancy? | |||
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" The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. Lol The .5% of the Army that is the Guards/Cavalry officer class are really an anomaly, and actually highlight what is really wrong with this country. Privilege and wealth gives people access to choices and options they don't deserve. Whilst the absence of those things limit the rest of the population. Zero sum fallacy. Have you ever researched history and asked yourself if those at the bottom of society are living better or worse than they did 150 years ago? I do get that income inequality is an issue, but when you exclusive focus on the relative and not absolute living standards, you delude yourself into a world view that ignores what's in front of your eyes. I'm not quite sure of your point. I wasn't talking about living standards (though I would suggest the huge increase in working people needing to turn to food banks is not a good indicator). I was talking about the advantage that being significantly more wealthy than others gives you. It's why our banks, the civil service, even Parliament is stuffed full of, at best, slightly above average white males, from backgrounds where finding enough money for the next meal was not a problem. Whether those people at the bottom are not in quite as bad a position as they were 200 years ago makes no difference. On the whole they and their children will find it very difficult to get off the bottom rung, and it seems to be getting harder and harder. . I'm going to tell you why we're seeing the highest inequality for a century. Socialism! Plain and simple. In 2008 we saw those very core socialist ideas of subsidy, bailout and nobody is a failure put to use in the world financial industry (not banking). If we could just get back to good old proper capitalism of failure (loss) and reward (gain) you'd see the inequality soon shrink Hmmm, okay. Apart from the reason the wheels fell off was entirely down to market capitalists, easing the regulation off (That had been put in place the last time the happened). Every bank is involved in those financial markets though. Do you think we should have let them fail, so all those ordinary savers lost their money. Just about every country in the world propped up the banks, whatever style of government was in place." What we have here is called "motivated reasoning", it's quite fascinating. Basically a person has a world view and looks for evidence to support it. Once they find the minimum amount of evidence necessary to support their prior belief, they shut down the examination of the issue. This results in them make outrageously stupid statements that they probably wouldn't believe themselves, if they formed their opinion after they had the facts. | |||
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" The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. Lol The .5% of the Army that is the Guards/Cavalry officer class are really an anomaly, and actually highlight what is really wrong with this country. Privilege and wealth gives people access to choices and options they don't deserve. Whilst the absence of those things limit the rest of the population. Zero sum fallacy. Have you ever researched history and asked yourself if those at the bottom of society are living better or worse than they did 150 years ago? I do get that income inequality is an issue, but when you exclusive focus on the relative and not absolute living standards, you delude yourself into a world view that ignores what's in front of your eyes. I'm not quite sure of your point. I wasn't talking about living standards (though I would suggest the huge increase in working people needing to turn to food banks is not a good indicator). I was talking about the advantage that being significantly more wealthy than others gives you. It's why our banks, the civil service, even Parliament is stuffed full of, at best, slightly above average white males, from backgrounds where finding enough money for the next meal was not a problem. Whether those people at the bottom are not in quite as bad a position as they were 200 years ago makes no difference. On the whole they and their children will find it very difficult to get off the bottom rung, and it seems to be getting harder and harder. . I'm going to tell you why we're seeing the highest inequality for a century. Socialism! Plain and simple. In 2008 we saw those very core socialist ideas of subsidy, bailout and nobody is a failure put to use in the world financial industry (not banking). If we could just get back to good old proper capitalism of failure (loss) and reward (gain) you'd see the inequality soon shrink Hmmm, okay. Apart from the reason the wheels fell off was entirely down to market capitalists, easing the regulation off (That had been put in place the last time the happened). Every bank is involved in those financial markets though. Do you think we should have let them fail, so all those ordinary savers lost their money. Just about every country in the world propped up the banks, whatever style of government was in place." . Oh no socialist ideology has even crept into conservative governments, this has been happening for decades as society has become more emotional it's become less rational. As to answer your other question, yes we should have let them fail and all the capitalists(that you hate because they've acquired wealth) would have lost a fucking fortune, the governments of the world could have used the bailout money to quite easily guarantee the first 100k plus all mortgages(they have done anyway) and the whole system would have reset in just a couple of years with wealth inequality massively reduced obviously (making you very happy) house prices reset, shares reset, immigration reset (wealthier countries would be more affected than poorer countries) etc etc. Of course there would have been short term pain lots and lots of it and that's the bit that socialism just can't fucking grasp. It's not school sports day, everybody can't be a winner but we can give EVERYBODY EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO BE THE WINNER  | |||
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" The military is a professional fighting force. They don't want an influx of chavs. Do you think the infantry recruit at Eton? The "chav" in all it's various forms over the centuries has been the backbone of the British Army. Perhaps you'd be surprised by the officer ranks of the cavalry Regiment if you think posh people don't join the army! You're conflating chavs and working class people. Chavs don't work, hence they aren't working class. Lol The .5% of the Army that is the Guards/Cavalry officer class are really an anomaly, and actually highlight what is really wrong with this country. Privilege and wealth gives people access to choices and options they don't deserve. Whilst the absence of those things limit the rest of the population. Zero sum fallacy. Have you ever researched history and asked yourself if those at the bottom of society are living better or worse than they did 150 years ago? I do get that income inequality is an issue, but when you exclusive focus on the relative and not absolute living standards, you delude yourself into a world view that ignores what's in front of your eyes. I'm not quite sure of your point. I wasn't talking about living standards (though I would suggest the huge increase in working people needing to turn to food banks is not a good indicator). I was talking about the advantage that being significantly more wealthy than others gives you. It's why our banks, the civil service, even Parliament is stuffed full of, at best, slightly above average white males, from backgrounds where finding enough money for the next meal was not a problem. Whether those people at the bottom are not in quite as bad a position as they were 200 years ago makes no difference. On the whole they and their children will find it very difficult to get off the bottom rung, and it seems to be getting harder and harder. . I'm going to tell you why we're seeing the highest inequality for a century. Socialism! Plain and simple. In 2008 we saw those very core socialist ideas of subsidy, bailout and nobody is a failure put to use in the world financial industry (not banking). If we could just get back to good old proper capitalism of failure (loss) and reward (gain) you'd see the inequality soon shrink Hmmm, okay. Apart from the reason the wheels fell off was entirely down to market capitalists, easing the regulation off (That had been put in place the last time the happened). Every bank is involved in those financial markets though. Do you think we should have let them fail, so all those ordinary savers lost their money. Just about every country in the world propped up the banks, whatever style of government was in place.. Oh no socialist ideology has even crept into conservative governments, this has been happening for decades as society has become more emotional it's become less rational. As to answer your other question, yes we should have let them fail and all the capitalists(that you hate because they've acquired wealth) would have lost a fucking fortune, the governments of the world could have used the bailout money to quite easily guarantee the first 100k plus all mortgages(they have done anyway) and the whole system would have reset in just a couple of years with wealth inequality massively reduced obviously (making you very happy) house prices reset, shares reset, immigration reset (wealthier countries would be more affected than poorer countries) etc etc. Of course there would have been short term pain lots and lots of it and that's the bit that socialism just can't fucking grasp. It's not school sports day, everybody can't be a winner but we can give EVERYBODY EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO BE THE WINNER "Not every bank would have failed either only the worst rotten corpses of companies. Plenty of responsible smaller ones would have gotten a nice boost by picking up the pieces of the cesspits like RBS. | |||
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