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Groups theory, oppression and the path to peace

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I'm getting worried that everything is fucked in 2018...social media, echo chambers and the acceleration of bullshit.

Open question - How can we ever have peace and harmony if people are getting more tribal and inventing reasons to be victim and find everyone else to be your enemy - driving us apart with

Lifted from the guardian

*******

For the Left, identity politics has long been a means to “confront rather than obscure the uglier aspects of American history and society”.

But in recent years, whether because of growing strength or growing frustration with the lack of progress, the Left has upped the ante. A shift in tone, rhetoric, and logic has moved identity politics away from inclusion – which had always been the Left’s watchword – toward exclusion and division. As a result, many on the left have turned against universalist rhetoric (for example, All Lives Matter), viewing it as an attempt to erase the specificity of the experience and oppression of historically marginalized minorities.

The new exclusivity is partly epistemological, claiming that out-group members cannot share in the knowledge possessed by in-group members (“You can’t understand X because you are white”; “You can’t understand Y because you’re not a woman”; “You can’t speak about Z because you’re not queer”). The idea of “cultural appropriation” insists, among other things, “These are our group’s symbols, traditions, patrimony, and out-group members have no right to them.”

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Are they saying that some groups maintain their minority status by not being inclusive?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

I'm saying that everyone needs to chill and stop finding reasons to be a victim and exclude/oppose/suspect/hate others for not having your skin colour, sexual persuasion, gender, etc etc.

Identity politics is driving the world apart.

Look at the pro white marches in Washington yesterday. Is it coincidental that this coincides with a rise in black lives matter type stuff? All sides feed off each other, the fervour and encampment rises and it can't possibly end well. Ridiculous!

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Am I the only one that sees trouble?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm saying that everyone needs to chill and stop finding reasons to be a victim and exclude/oppose/suspect/hate others for not having your skin colour, sexual persuasion, gender, etc etc.

Identity politics is driving the world apart.

Look at the pro white marches in Washington yesterday. Is it coincidental that this coincides with a rise in black lives matter type stuff? All sides feed off each other, the fervour and encampment rises and it can't possibly end well. Ridiculous!"

Its probably easier to say this coming from a position of relative privilege, as a white man.

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By *uciyassMan
over a year ago

sheffield

In this day and age any group no matter where it is Is open to attack either as a whole or individually

For example here. On the whole most of the contributions are from good upstanding folk who mean well and want to have a laugh but there are a few who are determined to undermine , insult and attack individuals by goading and being dam right offensive.

And when you go to have a go at these people you come off worse for various reasons.

We are all adults. So come on let’s just stop the abuse and have fun.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'm saying that everyone needs to chill and stop finding reasons to be a victim and exclude/oppose/suspect/hate others for not having your skin colour, sexual persuasion, gender, etc etc.

Identity politics is driving the world apart.

Look at the pro white marches in Washington yesterday. Is it coincidental that this coincides with a rise in black lives matter type stuff? All sides feed off each other, the fervour and encampment rises and it can't possibly end well. Ridiculous!

Its probably easier to say this coming from a position of relative privilege, as a white man.

"

You mean....ASSUMED relative privilege based on ethnicity and gender you mean.

How can one try to hold right on progressive attitudes if prone to making such sweeping generalisations?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fuck. No, kiss.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Spot on fella, tribalism has exisisted since year dot, the struggle for survival has exasperated the need for division between tribes, hence why there’s never been peace, and we will unlikely never have it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Spot on fella, tribalism has exisisted since year dot, the struggle for survival has exasperated the need for division between tribes, hence why there’s never been peace, and we will unlikely never have it. "

Yeah but we also used to live in caves!

The great accelerator of bad ideas - social media is seducing fragile minds with this kind of silliness. We need to move towards a global accepting world, not the opposite.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Some people can't or don't want to accept the reality or their own behaviors and decisions / choices etc which have put them where 'they are now' with the changes to come for them personally..

It's easier again for some to blame someone or something rather than lol at the self and such people are and have been easier for politicians and the like to manipulate for thousands of years..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I'm saying that everyone needs to chill and stop finding reasons to be a victim and exclude/oppose/suspect/hate others for not having your skin colour, sexual persuasion, gender, etc etc.

Identity politics is driving the world apart.

Look at the pro white marches in Washington yesterday. Is it coincidental that this coincides with a rise in black lives matter type stuff? All sides feed off each other, the fervour and encampment rises and it can't possibly end well. Ridiculous!

Its probably easier to say this coming from a position of relative privilege, as a white man.

You mean....ASSUMED relative privilege based on ethnicity and gender you mean.

How can one try to hold right on progressive attitudes if prone to making such sweeping generalisations?

"

It's not assumed though. I am a poor, working class white lad but I still am comparatively privileged. By being a white person and a man you have advantages that non-white people and women don't have.

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By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"Am I the only one that sees trouble?"
.

No your not!.

It's a dangerous path were heading down that I warned a friend about years ago when "we" decided to bail out the banks and have austerity, he didn't take my warnings seriously all those years ago.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"I'm saying that everyone needs to chill and stop finding reasons to be a victim and exclude/oppose/suspect/hate others for not having your skin colour, sexual persuasion, gender, etc etc.

Identity politics is driving the world apart.

Look at the pro white marches in Washington yesterday. Is it coincidental that this coincides with a rise in black lives matter type stuff? All sides feed off each other, the fervour and encampment rises and it can't possibly end well. Ridiculous!

Its probably easier to say this coming from a position of relative privilege, as a white man.

You mean....ASSUMED relative privilege based on ethnicity and gender you mean.

How can one try to hold right on progressive attitudes if prone to making such sweeping generalisations?

It's not assumed though. I am a poor, working class white lad but I still am comparatively privileged. By being a white person and a man you have advantages that non-white people and women don't have."

We are all comparitively privileged on these isles (women, non white people, trans people....EVERYONE) compared to people living in Lesotho for example - your apologist guilt logic is brutally flawed.

Everyone has advantages and disadvantages. We are all individuals with a range of talents.

There's no sensible way to categorise humanity except perhaps geographically....and even at that you often have extremely affluent areas close to slums.

This line of thinking only stirs discontent and drives people apart.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

You do read some stuff and I don't know where these values come from. Whether it's fleeting morality, a cultural shift or a dynamic set of behaviours that have always existed to influence wider society (multiculturalism/positive discrimination/gender recruitment targets)

The latest I saw was some woman called Ruby Rose who can't play Catwoman because she's a lesbian. This is juxtaposed to arguments that only trans people can only play trans roles. You'd think actors play roles suited to them, because they are actors.

It seems when there is a ethical (policy) shift, it takes time for morality/culture to catch up.

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By *lorious hole bs16Man
over a year ago

Bristol


"I'm saying that everyone needs to chill and stop finding reasons to be a victim and exclude/oppose/suspect/hate others for not having your skin colour, sexual persuasion, gender, etc etc.

Identity politics is driving the world apart.

Look at the pro white marches in Washington yesterday. Is it coincidental that this coincides with a rise in black lives matter type stuff? All sides feed off each other, the fervour and encampment rises and it can't possibly end well. Ridiculous!

Its probably easier to say this coming from a position of relative privilege, as a white man.

You mean....ASSUMED relative privilege based on ethnicity and gender you mean.

How can one try to hold right on progressive attitudes if prone to making such sweeping generalisations?

It's not assumed though. I am a poor, working class white lad but I still am comparatively privileged. By being a white person and a man you have advantages that non-white people and women don't have."

I am guessing your heterosexual? Perhaps you could kindly tell us what these advantages are? Not sure that working class white men have many advantages..

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By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester


"I'm saying that everyone needs to chill and stop finding reasons to be a victim and exclude/oppose/suspect/hate others for not having your skin colour, sexual persuasion, gender, etc etc.

Identity politics is driving the world apart.

Look at the pro white marches in Washington yesterday. Is it coincidental that this coincides with a rise in black lives matter type stuff? All sides feed off each other, the fervour and encampment rises and it can't possibly end well. Ridiculous!

Its probably easier to say this coming from a position of relative privilege, as a white man.

You mean....ASSUMED relative privilege based on ethnicity and gender you mean.

How can one try to hold right on progressive attitudes if prone to making such sweeping generalisations?

It's not assumed though. I am a poor, working class white lad but I still am comparatively privileged. By being a white person and a man you have advantages that non-white people and women don't have."
.

Education is the biggest privilege you get in life and statistically white working class boys fare worse than anybody so I think your thinking is a bit flawed

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

It's not his thinking, it's his parroting of someone else's ill thought out opinion.

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs


"I'm saying that everyone needs to chill and stop finding reasons to be a victim and exclude/oppose/suspect/hate others for not having your skin colour, sexual persuasion, gender, etc etc.

Identity politics is driving the world apart.

Look at the pro white marches in Washington yesterday. Is it coincidental that this coincides with a rise in black lives matter type stuff? All sides feed off each other, the fervour and encampment rises and it can't possibly end well. Ridiculous!

Its probably easier to say this coming from a position of relative privilege, as a white man.

You mean....ASSUMED relative privilege based on ethnicity and gender you mean.

How can one try to hold right on progressive attitudes if prone to making such sweeping generalisations?

"

Hmmmm. You know what is the most telling thing in that post - that emoji. That, to me, signals the kind of judgmental superiority that has taken over the left wing, usually intellectual/moral superiority in the Guardian readers. It stinks.

As for the original question - tribalism is the zeitgeist IMO, the spirit of the age. People need to accept that and find a way to make it work.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"

Hmmmm. You know what is the most telling thing in that post - that emoji. That, to me, signals the kind of judgmental superiority that has taken over the left wing, usually intellectual/moral superiority in the Guardian readers. It stinks.

As for the original question - tribalism is the zeitgeist IMO, the spirit of the age. People need to accept that and find a way to make it work."

It's a multipurpose emoji! I hate the left wing for what they have become even though I originally started there.

I hate the right wing too.

People need to get off their ideological high horses, accept differing opinions or at least listen and not shut them out with emotional them vs. us, wow just wow drivvle and form diverse communities and friendships local and globally.

Identity politics is the substitute for religious wars in a more secular world. People still need blind faith in false gods (ideas), sadly.

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By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester

They've spent a hundred years trying to think why Marxism failed because to them it's so obviously the perfect system!.

So they've divorced it from economics and thrown in the bogey man of culturalism and voila the recipe for another hundred million dead.

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