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"I'm watching Black Crows on Netflix. It's a drama set in a small Muslim community under the yoke of Islamic State and is based on eye witness accounts. Though the programme makers, for the sake of decency, claim to show only a fraction of what goes on there it still makes grim viewing. It features abuse, torture, r*pe (including of small boys), ethnic cleansing and the trade in human organs harvested from living and healthy slaves to name but a few. You would think that such a programme is part of a western propaganda initiative but in fact it's made by Muslims from several different countries. It's written, directed and produced by Muslims and stars them too. They have done this despite receiving numerous death threats. In an interview one of the actors said that it's not enough to destroy IS, another organisation will simply take it's place, you have to destroy the ideology behind it. I applaud these men and women for their bravery. Allah u akbar? Perhaps, but these people are giving him a run for his money." Haha, you are not one to shrink back from controversy are you!  | |||
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"I'm watching Black Crows on Netflix. It's a drama set in a small Muslim community under the yoke of Islamic State and is based on eye witness accounts. Though the programme makers, for the sake of decency, claim to show only a fraction of what goes on there it still makes grim viewing. It features abuse, torture, r*pe (including of small boys), ethnic cleansing and the trade in human organs harvested from living and healthy slaves to name but a few. You would think that such a programme is part of a western propaganda initiative but in fact it's made by Muslims from several different countries. It's written, directed and produced by Muslims and stars them too. They have done this despite receiving numerous death threats. In an interview one of the actors said that it's not enough to destroy IS, another organisation will simply take it's place, you have to destroy the ideology behind it. I applaud these men and women for their bravery. Allah u akbar? Perhaps, but these people are giving him a run for his money. Haha, you are not one to shrink back from controversy are you! "Never. Nothing will change in life if we insist on hiding under the duvet. | |||
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"A friend of mine said when he was in Afghanistan he was on sentry duty and could hear the Afghan police brutally sexually abusing a young Afghan lad that they'd dressed up as a girl, but the army weren't allowed to intervene due to it being their "culture" and they were trying to keep the Afghan police and army on side. "That just made me feel physically sick | |||
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"A friend of mine said when he was in Afghanistan he was on sentry duty and could hear the Afghan police brutally sexually abusing a young Afghan lad that they'd dressed up as a girl, but the army weren't allowed to intervene due to it being their "culture" and they were trying to keep the Afghan police and army on side.
That just made me feel physically sick "My God. Humanity is fucked. | |||
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"A friend of mine said when he was in Afghanistan he was on sentry duty and could hear the Afghan police brutally sexually abusing a young Afghan lad that they'd dressed up as a girl, but the army weren't allowed to intervene due to it being their "culture" and they were trying to keep the Afghan police and army on side.
That just made me feel physically sick
My God. Humanity is fucked. "Nah. When you look at what happens in some countries and communities, and go cold at the thought, you think that couldn't possibly happen here. Well, it did and a whole lot worse. These people are only 200 or 300 years behind us. | |||
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"A friend of mine said when he was in Afghanistan he was on sentry duty and could hear the Afghan police brutally sexually abusing a young Afghan lad that they'd dressed up as a girl, but the army weren't allowed to intervene due to it being their "culture" and they were trying to keep the Afghan police and army on side.
That just made me feel physically sick
My God. Humanity is fucked.
Nah.
When you look at what happens in some countries and communities, and go cold at the thought, you think that couldn't possibly happen here. Well, it did and a whole lot worse.
These people are only 200 or 300 years behind us.
"Indeed, in the nineteenth century in the UK, the age of consent was 12, we executed people for being gay and you got sent to prison if you said Christianity was untrue. | |||
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"A friend of mine said when he was in Afghanistan he was on sentry duty and could hear the Afghan police brutally sexually abusing a young Afghan lad that they'd dressed up as a girl, but the army weren't allowed to intervene due to it being their "culture" and they were trying to keep the Afghan police and army on side.
That just made me feel physically sick
My God. Humanity is fucked.
Nah.
When you look at what happens in some countries and communities, and go cold at the thought, you think that couldn't possibly happen here. Well, it did and a whole lot worse.
These people are only 200 or 300 years behind us.
Indeed, in the nineteenth century in the UK, the age of consent was 12, we executed people for being gay and you got sent to prison if you said Christianity was untrue. "Yes, totally agree. | |||
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"A friend of mine said when he was in Afghanistan he was on sentry duty and could hear the Afghan police brutally sexually abusing a young Afghan lad that they'd dressed up as a girl, but the army weren't allowed to intervene due to it being their "culture" and they were trying to keep the Afghan police and army on side.
That just made me feel physically sick
My God. Humanity is fucked. "You don't have to be Muslim to commit atrocities, soldiers are capable of this regardless of their religion. Look at what happened with the break up of Yugoslavia. | |||
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"ISIS slaughtered more muslims than any other religious affiliation. Barbaric, not religious." . They were the wrong type of Muslim, let's start on a foot of honesty, there's a religious element to this type of crime, just like there was a religious element to the inquisition, witch burning, priests and young boys fgm, honour killings. Your right though with your other statement, Islam is hundreds of years behind in its attitude to society and until it as a religion is willing to undergo a reformation to its values, these things will continue | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. "
ISIS has never threatened or attacked Israel.
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. " Really? Can you elaborate? | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. " . Your confusing Isis and Al-qaeda | |||
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"ISIS slaughtered more muslims than any other religious affiliation. Barbaric, not religious.. They were the wrong type of Muslim, let's start on a foot of honesty, there's a religious element to this type of crime, just like there was a religious element to the inquisition, witch burning, priests and young boys fgm, honour killings. Your right though with your other statement, Islam is hundreds of years behind in its attitude to society and until it as a religion is willing to undergo a reformation to its values, these things will continue" Blaming Islam for IS is like blaming Christianity for the Westboro Baptist Church. | |||
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"A friend of mine said when he was in Afghanistan he was on sentry duty and could hear the Afghan police brutally sexually abusing a young Afghan lad that they'd dressed up as a girl, but the army weren't allowed to intervene due to it being their "culture" and they were trying to keep the Afghan police and army on side.
That just made me feel physically sick "It's awful, loads of people who served over there have similar stories. | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. . Your confusing Isis and Al-qaeda" For the sake of simplicity they both share the same ideology though they are more rivals than allies. Many Al-Qaeda commanders have defected to join IS. | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Really? Can you elaborate? " It doesn't take much research to find out who funded, armed and trained those 'rebels' who became ISIS. | |||
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"ISIS slaughtered more muslims than any other religious affiliation. Barbaric, not religious.. They were the wrong type of Muslim, let's start on a foot of honesty, there's a religious element to this type of crime, just like there was a religious element to the inquisition, witch burning, priests and young boys fgm, honour killings. Your right though with your other statement, Islam is hundreds of years behind in its attitude to society and until it as a religion is willing to undergo a reformation to its values, these things will continue Blaming Islam for IS is like blaming Christianity for the Westboro Baptist Church. " . What do you want to deny next?. Karl Marxs ideology had no role in communism!. Adolf Hitlers words played no part in the rise of Nazism!. Catholic doctrine played no role in the inquisition!. I think your living in blind faith yourself to be honest | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. " Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism | |||
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"Most Muslims fucking hate IS. It's Muslims they ate killing and raping. It's Muslims risking their lives to flea Syria. It's muslima being abused and attacked throughout the world because of extremists. People seem to forget that. If Muslims supported IS we'd all be dead by now " . The inquisition by and large rounded up the wrong type of Christian for torture and murder. The first victims are always those inside the ideology as it's a power struggle in reality. Many Nazis murdered other Nazis for the push for the true form of Nazism, of course once that is over they soon move on to the non believers of whatever form of ideology they propose as the solution. Communism ,Nazism, Catholicism, Islam, there all ideas for the betterment of humanity as proposed by whichever deity you choose to follow | |||
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"Most Muslims fucking hate IS. It's Muslims they ate killing and raping. It's Muslims risking their lives to flea Syria. It's muslima being abused and attacked throughout the world because of extremists. People seem to forget that. If Muslims supported IS we'd all be dead by now " That's exactly the point of my op: to show that extremists are very much in the minority, that their atrocities are mostly committed against other Muslims, that these other Muslims hate the extremists and that they are trying to stop them. Many have infiltrated IS strongholds with the intention of assassinating the leaders. | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism" I think you'll find that all the problems in the Middle East have been a result of western interference over the last one thousand years. | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism I think you'll find that all the problems in the Middle East have been a result of western interference over the last one thousand years." Though being fair they were not the victims in this,invasions, pirate raids on Europeans,stealing people from coastal towns to sell into slavery, it's been a 2 way street. The difference seems to be we had the renaissance and there never was one in the middle east. | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism I think you'll find that all the problems in the Middle East have been a result of western interference over the last one thousand years. Though being fair they were not the victims in this,invasions, pirate raids on Europeans,stealing people from coastal towns to sell into slavery, it's been a 2 way street. The difference seems to be we had the renaissance and there never was one in the middle east." I disagree, the sun set on Islam at the time of the crusades but that's a topic i hope to cover in a later thread. | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism I think you'll find that all the problems in the Middle East have been a result of western interference over the last one thousand years." | |||
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"ISIS slaughtered more muslims than any other religious affiliation. Barbaric, not religious.. They were the wrong type of Muslim, let's start on a foot of honesty, there's a religious element to this type of crime, just like there was a religious element to the inquisition, witch burning, priests and young boys fgm, honour killings. Your right though with your other statement, Islam is hundreds of years behind in its attitude to society and until it as a religion is willing to undergo a reformation to its values, these things will continue Blaming Islam for IS is like blaming Christianity for the Westboro Baptist Church. . What do you want to deny next?. Karl Marxs ideology had no role in communism!. Adolf Hitlers words played no part in the rise of Nazism!. Catholic doctrine played no role in the inquisition!. I think your living in blind faith yourself to be honest" ...and I think you're I'll informed. You make poor arguments. | |||
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"ISIS slaughtered more muslims than any other religious affiliation. Barbaric, not religious.. They were the wrong type of Muslim, let's start on a foot of honesty, there's a religious element to this type of crime, just like there was a religious element to the inquisition, witch burning, priests and young boys fgm, honour killings. Your right though with your other statement, Islam is hundreds of years behind in its attitude to society and until it as a religion is willing to undergo a reformation to its values, these things will continue Blaming Islam for IS is like blaming Christianity for the Westboro Baptist Church. . What do you want to deny next?. Karl Marxs ideology had no role in communism!. Adolf Hitlers words played no part in the rise of Nazism!. Catholic doctrine played no role in the inquisition!. I think your living in blind faith yourself to be honest ...and I think you're I'll informed. You make poor arguments. " . Those are just opinions without any examples of "why" like I gave you!. If ideology doesn't make people what they are then why do we all get so uperty about conservatism or socialism?. it explains nothing of its followers according to your thinking. Obviously not every socialist is a wishy washy smoker and not every conservative is a fox chasing, hang em high, toff. However it's obvious to most why either of those stereotypes would be drawn to either ideology!. Religions don't hold a special pass on criticism and what's more due to there nature should be extra scrutinized | |||
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"ISIS slaughtered more muslims than any other religious affiliation. Barbaric, not religious.. They were the wrong type of Muslim, let's start on a foot of honesty, there's a religious element to this type of crime, just like there was a religious element to the inquisition, witch burning, priests and young boys fgm, honour killings. Your right though with your other statement, Islam is hundreds of years behind in its attitude to society and until it as a religion is willing to undergo a reformation to its values, these things will continue Blaming Islam for IS is like blaming Christianity for the Westboro Baptist Church. . What do you want to deny next?. Karl Marxs ideology had no role in communism!. Adolf Hitlers words played no part in the rise of Nazism!. Catholic doctrine played no role in the inquisition!. I think your living in blind faith yourself to be honest ...and I think you're I'll informed. You make poor arguments. . Those are just opinions without any examples of "why" like I gave you!. If ideology doesn't make people what they are then why do we all get so uperty about conservatism or socialism?. it explains nothing of its followers according to your thinking. Obviously not every socialist is a wishy washy smoker and not every conservative is a fox chasing, hang em high, toff. However it's obvious to most why either of those stereotypes would be drawn to either ideology!. Religions don't hold a special pass on criticism and what's more due to there nature should be extra scrutinized" The 'rebels' that became IS were funded, armed and some say organised by the West. Do you think that those driving forces in the West followed Islam ideology? | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism I think you'll find that all the problems in the Middle East have been a result of western interference over the last one thousand years." . I think you'll actually find if you look in the other direction (Mongolia) you'll find what your looking for?. | |||
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"A friend of mine said when he was in Afghanistan he was on sentry duty and could hear the Afghan police brutally sexually abusing a young Afghan lad that they'd dressed up as a girl, but the army weren't allowed to intervene due to it being their "culture" and they were trying to keep the Afghan police and army on side.
That just made me feel physically sick
My God. Humanity is fucked. "Let’s not forget Jimmy Saville protected by the establishment in this country also did sickening things.. I don’t think religion is relevant to abuse. Afghanistan was first ravished by the soviets, it’s a country used to savagery and war. Sadly this is when we see the worst in humanity. | |||
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" You don't have to be Muslim to commit atrocities, soldiers are capable of this regardless of their religion. Look at what happened with the break up of Yugoslavia." Your post reminds me of a video - leaked by Chelsea Manning, I think - showing US soldiers doing despicable things to an Iraqi citizen in a prison. Abu Graib, or some place like that. It is a human weakness, not a religious one. | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism I think you'll find that all the problems in the Middle East have been a result of western interference over the last one thousand years.. I think you'll actually find if you look in the other direction (Mongolia) you'll find what your looking for?. " I see your point yet the Mongolian invasion of Islam came after the crusades and unlike the crusades was an invasion for territory not one on religious grounds. The Muslim faith and culture was left largely untouched and remained so after the Mongolians withdrew. | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Really? Can you elaborate? " The Taliban was funded and armed by the US and its allies in NATO to resist the Soviet Union. When the Soviets left, they settled quite nicely into their ideological dreamland - until Osama Bin Laden decided on a "spectacular" and NATO invoked Article 5 to invade Afghanistan and take on the Taliban. NATO continues to fund and arm jihadis in Syria, on the basis my enemy's enemy is my friend. Jihadis whose ambition is to create an Islamic state in Syria. | |||
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" You don't have to be Muslim to commit atrocities, soldiers are capable of this regardless of their religion. Look at what happened with the break up of Yugoslavia. Your post reminds me of a video - leaked by Chelsea Manning, I think - showing US soldiers doing despicable things to an Iraqi citizen in a prison. Abu Graib, or some place like that. It is a human weakness, not a religious one." Unfortunately so. | |||
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" You don't have to be Muslim to commit atrocities, soldiers are capable of this regardless of their religion. Look at what happened with the break up of Yugoslavia. Your post reminds me of a video - leaked by Chelsea Manning, I think - showing US soldiers doing despicable things to an Iraqi citizen in a prison. Abu Graib, or some place like that. It is a human weakness, not a religious one. Unfortunately so." Given that all ideologies, religious or otherwise, are dreamed up by humans, that's obviously the case. The problem with any universal ideology, whether it's religious or secular, is that it gives you permission to do awful things, because nothing is more important than forwarding the interests of your ideology. | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism I think you'll find that all the problems in the Middle East have been a result of western interference over the last one thousand years.. I think you'll actually find if you look in the other direction (Mongolia) you'll find what your looking for?. I see your point yet the Mongolian invasion of Islam came after the crusades and unlike the crusades was an invasion for territory not one on religious grounds. The Muslim faith and culture was left largely untouched and remained so after the Mongolians withdrew." . It was a massacre of everybody, they killed a million in a month Baghdad was ransacked and burned to the ground and destroyed for 300 years!. More importantly they burned or threw in the tigress every book they could find, along with the many Islamic scientists and philosophers of which Baghdad was at the time the centre of the world for, it forever changed the ideology of Islam into a backward looking, expansionist and violent one. . Ps the first crusades were actually taking back Christian grounds of Italy and Greece which had been invaded by Islamic forces. You give the West far too much respect, we were too busy fighting each other to fight the middle East | |||
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"Bacha bazi is the term, it's been practiced in Afghanistan for centuries, as well as other countries, Western forces were accused of condoning it during the recent occupation..." From what I understand they had to turn a blind eye to it as the insurgency was bad enough without turning the ANP, ANA and local "friendly" warlords against the NATO forces. | |||
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"I'm watching Black Crows on Netflix. It's a drama set in a small Muslim community under the yoke of Islamic State and is based on eye witness accounts. Though the programme makers, for the sake of decency, claim to show only a fraction of what goes on there it still makes grim viewing. It features abuse, torture, r*pe (including of small boys), ethnic cleansing and the trade in human organs harvested from living and healthy slaves to name but a few. You would think that such a programme is part of a western propaganda initiative but in fact it's made by Muslims from several different countries. It's written, directed and produced by Muslims and stars them too. They have done this despite receiving numerous death threats. In an interview one of the actors said that it's not enough to destroy IS, another organisation will simply take it's place, you have to destroy the ideology behind it. I applaud these men and women for their bravery. Allah u akbar? Perhaps, but these people are giving him a run for his money." Assuming the ideology is Islam, why does that need to be destroyed if there is a clear distinction between extreme groups like IS, and the vast majority of Muslims living perfectly peacefully around the world? | |||
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"I'm watching Black Crows on Netflix. It's a drama set in a small Muslim community under the yoke of Islamic State and is based on eye witness accounts. Though the programme makers, for the sake of decency, claim to show only a fraction of what goes on there it still makes grim viewing. It features abuse, torture, r*pe (including of small boys), ethnic cleansing and the trade in human organs harvested from living and healthy slaves to name but a few. You would think that such a programme is part of a western propaganda initiative but in fact it's made by Muslims from several different countries. It's written, directed and produced by Muslims and stars them too. They have done this despite receiving numerous death threats. In an interview one of the actors said that it's not enough to destroy IS, another organisation will simply take it's place, you have to destroy the ideology behind it. I applaud these men and women for their bravery. Allah u akbar? Perhaps, but these people are giving him a run for his money. Assuming the ideology is Islam, why does that need to be destroyed if there is a clear distinction between extreme groups like IS, and the vast majority of Muslims living perfectly peacefully around the world? " Best ask a Muslim. I was quoting one. | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism I think you'll find that all the problems in the Middle East have been a result of western interference over the last one thousand years.. I think you'll actually find if you look in the other direction (Mongolia) you'll find what your looking for?. I see your point yet the Mongolian invasion of Islam came after the crusades and unlike the crusades was an invasion for territory not one on religious grounds. The Muslim faith and culture was left largely untouched and remained so after the Mongolians withdrew.. It was a massacre of everybody, they killed a million in a month Baghdad was ransacked and burned to the ground and destroyed for 300 years!. More importantly they burned or threw in the tigress every book they could find, along with the many Islamic scientists and philosophers of which Baghdad was at the time the centre of the world for, it forever changed the ideology of Islam into a backward looking, expansionist and violent one. . Ps the first crusades were actually taking back Christian grounds of Italy and Greece which had been invaded by Islamic forces. You give the West far too much respect, we were too busy fighting each other to fight the middle East" Clearly something that warrants more research on my part. Thanks. | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism I think you'll find that all the problems in the Middle East have been a result of western interference over the last one thousand years.. I think you'll actually find if you look in the other direction (Mongolia) you'll find what your looking for?. I see your point yet the Mongolian invasion of Islam came after the crusades and unlike the crusades was an invasion for territory not one on religious grounds. The Muslim faith and culture was left largely untouched and remained so after the Mongolians withdrew.. It was a massacre of everybody, they killed a million in a month Baghdad was ransacked and burned to the ground and destroyed for 300 years!. More importantly they burned or threw in the tigress every book they could find, along with the many Islamic scientists and philosophers of which Baghdad was at the time the centre of the world for, it forever changed the ideology of Islam into a backward looking, expansionist and violent one. . Ps the first crusades were actually taking back Christian grounds of Italy and Greece which had been invaded by Islamic forces. You give the West far too much respect, we were too busy fighting each other to fight the middle East" How does any of that justify or explain your earlier attack on Islam? You've ignored criticism of your argument that points out the involvement of the West in the root of IS. Do you believe those western influences believe in Wahibism? It's naive to believe that the problem is Islam. It's convenient to blame religion for the proxy wars being fought. | |||
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"A friend of mine said when he was in Afghanistan he was on sentry duty and could hear the Afghan police brutally sexually abusing a young Afghan lad that they'd dressed up as a girl, but the army weren't allowed to intervene due to it being their "culture" and they were trying to keep the Afghan police and army on side.
That just made me feel physically sick
My God. Humanity is fucked.
You don't have to be Muslim to commit atrocities, soldiers are capable of this regardless of their religion. Look at what happened with the break up of Yugoslavia."You don't have to look so far away if you want to find examples of soldiers acting barbaric | |||
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"ISIS slaughtered more muslims than any other religious affiliation. Barbaric, not religious.. They were the wrong type of Muslim, let's start on a foot of honesty, there's a religious element to this type of crime, just like there was a religious element to the inquisition, witch burning, priests and young boys fgm, honour killings. Your right though with your other statement, Islam is hundreds of years behind in its attitude to society and until it as a religion is willing to undergo a reformation to its values, these things will continue Blaming Islam for IS is like blaming Christianity for the Westboro Baptist Church. . What do you want to deny next?. Karl Marxs ideology had no role in communism!. Adolf Hitlers words played no part in the rise of Nazism!. Catholic doctrine played no role in the inquisition!. I think your living in blind faith yourself to be honest" Actually, Karl Marx didn't have a role in Communism. His words were twisted to become an ideal. Same for the sociologist that effectively saw the rise of Nazism, his words were used (after his death) as an ideology. Does that mean that no one should ever put forward a theory in case someone decides to twist your words?  | |||
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"I'm watching Black Crows on Netflix. It's a drama set in a small Muslim community under the yoke of Islamic State and is based on eye witness accounts. Though the programme makers, for the sake of decency, claim to show only a fraction of what goes on there it still makes grim viewing. It features abuse, torture, r*pe (including of small boys), ethnic cleansing and the trade in human organs harvested from living and healthy slaves to name but a few. You would think that such a programme is part of a western propaganda initiative but in fact it's made by Muslims from several different countries. It's written, directed and produced by Muslims and stars them too. They have done this despite receiving numerous death threats. In an interview one of the actors said that it's not enough to destroy IS, another organisation will simply take it's place, you have to destroy the ideology behind it. I applaud these men and women for their bravery. Allah u akbar? Perhaps, but these people are giving him a run for his money. Assuming the ideology is Islam, why does that need to be destroyed if there is a clear distinction between extreme groups like IS, and the vast majority of Muslims living perfectly peacefully around the world? Best ask a Muslim. I was quoting one." My bad. I thought that maybe by posting on here you were interested in some sort of discussion on the subject. | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism I think you'll find that all the problems in the Middle East have been a result of western interference over the last one thousand years.. I think you'll actually find if you look in the other direction (Mongolia) you'll find what your looking for?. I see your point yet the Mongolian invasion of Islam came after the crusades and unlike the crusades was an invasion for territory not one on religious grounds. The Muslim faith and culture was left largely untouched and remained so after the Mongolians withdrew.. It was a massacre of everybody, they killed a million in a month Baghdad was ransacked and burned to the ground and destroyed for 300 years!. More importantly they burned or threw in the tigress every book they could find, along with the many Islamic scientists and philosophers of which Baghdad was at the time the centre of the world for, it forever changed the ideology of Islam into a backward looking, expansionist and violent one. . Ps the first crusades were actually taking back Christian grounds of Italy and Greece which had been invaded by Islamic forces. You give the West far too much respect, we were too busy fighting each other to fight the middle East How does any of that justify or explain your earlier attack on Islam? You've ignored criticism of your argument that points out the involvement of the West in the root of IS. Do you believe those western influences believe in Wahibism? It's naive to believe that the problem is Islam. It's convenient to blame religion for the proxy wars being fought. " . Firstly that was my point of a widely agreed by historians turning point in Islamic rule and doctrine. I'll tackle your main point about American foreign policy, it's not really that great an issue for Al-qaeda. I'll give you an example. American/western foreign policy of stopping the whole sale genocide of Christians in East Timor , now yes the "West" did act rather bad by supplying weapons to the Islamic Indonesian state who were for years hell bent on a genocide of the Portuguese Christian population of East Timor. Now thankfully due to pressure from western society, newspapers and movements, western governments were first, forced to stop selling the weapons and then got a UN embargo in place on the despot Indonesian government, sought the removal of Indonesian forces and a granting of an East Timor independent state. I can't think of any right minded individual that would think that this is bad western foreign policy and intervention, well nobody except Al-qaeda, third on there list of demands is western meddling stopping the genocide of Christians in Indonesia, that's right, they took offence at being made to stop killing Christians from what they saw as an Islamic country!. We could extrapolate this further by asking if they were so irate at American foreign policy of intervention in East Timor how does blowing up children in a music gig in Manchester help, it's like being furious with the EU and blowing up children in Australia as a protest?. Of course, the reality is, it has little to do with western foreign policy and alot to do with the perfect Islamic caliphate, hence the later splinter group of isil(Islamic state of Levant), they simply wish for the perfect conditions to implement Islamic law (Sharia). Denying that this has nothing to do with Islam is like saying the Vatican has nothing to do with Catholicism or the inquisitions had nothing to do with separatist movements of the Christian religion. | |||
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"ISIS slaughtered more muslims than any other religious affiliation. Barbaric, not religious.. They were the wrong type of Muslim, let's start on a foot of honesty, there's a religious element to this type of crime, just like there was a religious element to the inquisition, witch burning, priests and young boys fgm, honour killings. Your right though with your other statement, Islam is hundreds of years behind in its attitude to society and until it as a religion is willing to undergo a reformation to its values, these things will continue Blaming Islam for IS is like blaming Christianity for the Westboro Baptist Church. . What do you want to deny next?. Karl Marxs ideology had no role in communism!. Adolf Hitlers words played no part in the rise of Nazism!. Catholic doctrine played no role in the inquisition!. I think your living in blind faith yourself to be honest Actually, Karl Marx didn't have a role in Communism. His words were twisted to become an ideal. Same for the sociologist that effectively saw the rise of Nazism, his words were used (after his death) as an ideology. Does that mean that no one should ever put forward a theory in case someone decides to twist your words? ". Nobody is twisting any words, I was giving examples of ideologies and how they influence. We could very easily pick one like say, apostasy, under Islam the penalty for leaving your chosen religion (Islam) is death, no ifs or buts needed, it's very clear and could and should be changed by Islamic leaders, it's a very easy start to make in amending the doctrine and a very easy way to say, under no circumstances is death for anything allowed as a penalty. I noticed today that the Vatican has amended there official position on this as death was actually allowed under canon law for a select few things, today they said it is no longer the church position and death is no longer allowed as a penalty for anything, something I agree with and is a good place for Islam to start. Unless you think death for apostasy is a fair thing? | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism I think you'll find that all the problems in the Middle East have been a result of western interference over the last one thousand years.. I think you'll actually find if you look in the other direction (Mongolia) you'll find what your looking for?. I see your point yet the Mongolian invasion of Islam came after the crusades and unlike the crusades was an invasion for territory not one on religious grounds. The Muslim faith and culture was left largely untouched and remained so after the Mongolians withdrew.. It was a massacre of everybody, they killed a million in a month Baghdad was ransacked and burned to the ground and destroyed for 300 years!. More importantly they burned or threw in the tigress every book they could find, along with the many Islamic scientists and philosophers of which Baghdad was at the time the centre of the world for, it forever changed the ideology of Islam into a backward looking, expansionist and violent one. . Ps the first crusades were actually taking back Christian grounds of Italy and Greece which had been invaded by Islamic forces. You give the West far too much respect, we were too busy fighting each other to fight the middle East How does any of that justify or explain your earlier attack on Islam? You've ignored criticism of your argument that points out the involvement of the West in the root of IS. Do you believe those western influences believe in Wahibism? It's naive to believe that the problem is Islam. It's convenient to blame religion for the proxy wars being fought. . Firstly that was my point of a widely agreed by historians turning point in Islamic rule and doctrine. I'll tackle your main point about American foreign policy, it's not really that great an issue for Al-qaeda. I'll give you an example. American/western foreign policy of stopping the whole sale genocide of Christians in East Timor , now yes the "West" did act rather bad by supplying weapons to the Islamic Indonesian state who were for years hell bent on a genocide of the Portuguese Christian population of East Timor. Now thankfully due to pressure from western society, newspapers and movements, western governments were first, forced to stop selling the weapons and then got a UN embargo in place on the despot Indonesian government, sought the removal of Indonesian forces and a granting of an East Timor independent state. I can't think of any right minded individual that would think that this is bad western foreign policy and intervention, well nobody except Al-qaeda, third on there list of demands is western meddling stopping the genocide of Christians in Indonesia, that's right, they took offence at being made to stop killing Christians from what they saw as an Islamic country!. We could extrapolate this further by asking if they were so irate at American foreign policy of intervention in East Timor how does blowing up children in a music gig in Manchester help, it's like being furious with the EU and blowing up children in Australia as a protest?. Of course, the reality is, it has little to do with western foreign policy and alot to do with the perfect Islamic caliphate, hence the later splinter group of isil(Islamic state of Levant), they simply wish for the perfect conditions to implement Islamic law (Sharia). Denying that this has nothing to do with Islam is like saying the Vatican has nothing to do with Catholicism or the inquisitions had nothing to do with separatist movements of the Christian religion. " Why do you struggle so much to stick to the point. You keep introducing other examples instead of staying on topic with ISIS. Every time you do that you demonstrate how ill informed you are. ISIS are a key piece in a proxy war. Why do you persist on blaming Islam? | |||
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"Islam is not to blame for IS, i thought my opening post made that clear, western interference is." | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism I think you'll find that all the problems in the Middle East have been a result of western interference over the last one thousand years.. I think you'll actually find if you look in the other direction (Mongolia) you'll find what your looking for?. I see your point yet the Mongolian invasion of Islam came after the crusades and unlike the crusades was an invasion for territory not one on religious grounds. The Muslim faith and culture was left largely untouched and remained so after the Mongolians withdrew.. It was a massacre of everybody, they killed a million in a month Baghdad was ransacked and burned to the ground and destroyed for 300 years!. More importantly they burned or threw in the tigress every book they could find, along with the many Islamic scientists and philosophers of which Baghdad was at the time the centre of the world for, it forever changed the ideology of Islam into a backward looking, expansionist and violent one. . Ps the first crusades were actually taking back Christian grounds of Italy and Greece which had been invaded by Islamic forces. You give the West far too much respect, we were too busy fighting each other to fight the middle East How does any of that justify or explain your earlier attack on Islam? You've ignored criticism of your argument that points out the involvement of the West in the root of IS. Do you believe those western influences believe in Wahibism? It's naive to believe that the problem is Islam. It's convenient to blame religion for the proxy wars being fought. . Firstly that was my point of a widely agreed by historians turning point in Islamic rule and doctrine. I'll tackle your main point about American foreign policy, it's not really that great an issue for Al-qaeda. I'll give you an example. American/western foreign policy of stopping the whole sale genocide of Christians in East Timor , now yes the "West" did act rather bad by supplying weapons to the Islamic Indonesian state who were for years hell bent on a genocide of the Portuguese Christian population of East Timor. Now thankfully due to pressure from western society, newspapers and movements, western governments were first, forced to stop selling the weapons and then got a UN embargo in place on the despot Indonesian government, sought the removal of Indonesian forces and a granting of an East Timor independent state. I can't think of any right minded individual that would think that this is bad western foreign policy and intervention, well nobody except Al-qaeda, third on there list of demands is western meddling stopping the genocide of Christians in Indonesia, that's right, they took offence at being made to stop killing Christians from what they saw as an Islamic country!. We could extrapolate this further by asking if they were so irate at American foreign policy of intervention in East Timor how does blowing up children in a music gig in Manchester help, it's like being furious with the EU and blowing up children in Australia as a protest?. Of course, the reality is, it has little to do with western foreign policy and alot to do with the perfect Islamic caliphate, hence the later splinter group of isil(Islamic state of Levant), they simply wish for the perfect conditions to implement Islamic law (Sharia). Denying that this has nothing to do with Islam is like saying the Vatican has nothing to do with Catholicism or the inquisitions had nothing to do with separatist movements of the Christian religion. Why do you struggle so much to stick to the point. You keep introducing other examples instead of staying on topic with ISIS. Every time you do that you demonstrate how ill informed you are. ISIS are a key piece in a proxy war. Why do you persist on blaming Islam?" . I've tried to point to historical items and evidence like Al-qaedas list of demands to show you that very little of the problem is western foreign policy, sure it has an effect but it's no where near like you think. Maybe if you could show me something of note other than your usual sentence of, it is because I say it is, I could understand your opinion more!. | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism I think you'll find that all the problems in the Middle East have been a result of western interference over the last one thousand years.. I think you'll actually find if you look in the other direction (Mongolia) you'll find what your looking for?. I see your point yet the Mongolian invasion of Islam came after the crusades and unlike the crusades was an invasion for territory not one on religious grounds. The Muslim faith and culture was left largely untouched and remained so after the Mongolians withdrew.. It was a massacre of everybody, they killed a million in a month Baghdad was ransacked and burned to the ground and destroyed for 300 years!. More importantly they burned or threw in the tigress every book they could find, along with the many Islamic scientists and philosophers of which Baghdad was at the time the centre of the world for, it forever changed the ideology of Islam into a backward looking, expansionist and violent one. . Ps the first crusades were actually taking back Christian grounds of Italy and Greece which had been invaded by Islamic forces. You give the West far too much respect, we were too busy fighting each other to fight the middle East How does any of that justify or explain your earlier attack on Islam? You've ignored criticism of your argument that points out the involvement of the West in the root of IS. Do you believe those western influences believe in Wahibism? It's naive to believe that the problem is Islam. It's convenient to blame religion for the proxy wars being fought. . Firstly that was my point of a widely agreed by historians turning point in Islamic rule and doctrine. I'll tackle your main point about American foreign policy, it's not really that great an issue for Al-qaeda. I'll give you an example. American/western foreign policy of stopping the whole sale genocide of Christians in East Timor , now yes the "West" did act rather bad by supplying weapons to the Islamic Indonesian state who were for years hell bent on a genocide of the Portuguese Christian population of East Timor. Now thankfully due to pressure from western society, newspapers and movements, western governments were first, forced to stop selling the weapons and then got a UN embargo in place on the despot Indonesian government, sought the removal of Indonesian forces and a granting of an East Timor independent state. I can't think of any right minded individual that would think that this is bad western foreign policy and intervention, well nobody except Al-qaeda, third on there list of demands is western meddling stopping the genocide of Christians in Indonesia, that's right, they took offence at being made to stop killing Christians from what they saw as an Islamic country!. We could extrapolate this further by asking if they were so irate at American foreign policy of intervention in East Timor how does blowing up children in a music gig in Manchester help, it's like being furious with the EU and blowing up children in Australia as a protest?. Of course, the reality is, it has little to do with western foreign policy and alot to do with the perfect Islamic caliphate, hence the later splinter group of isil(Islamic state of Levant), they simply wish for the perfect conditions to implement Islamic law (Sharia). Denying that this has nothing to do with Islam is like saying the Vatican has nothing to do with Catholicism or the inquisitions had nothing to do with separatist movements of the Christian religion. " I don’t think anyone is saying it has nothing to do with Islam. Clearly there is a connection, and an exploitation of much of the literal interpretation of Islam. But that’s substantially different from the view that Islam is to blame, or that Islam should somehow be eradicated. | |||
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"Fun fact, ISIS was borne out of the cold war and American foreign policy, alveit indirectly. Thought a lot of the issues we have in the middle east pre-date the cold war and can be traced to two things: British and French Empires not creating one arab state and Wahhabism I think you'll find that all the problems in the Middle East have been a result of western interference over the last one thousand years.. I think you'll actually find if you look in the other direction (Mongolia) you'll find what your looking for?. I see your point yet the Mongolian invasion of Islam came after the crusades and unlike the crusades was an invasion for territory not one on religious grounds. The Muslim faith and culture was left largely untouched and remained so after the Mongolians withdrew.. It was a massacre of everybody, they killed a million in a month Baghdad was ransacked and burned to the ground and destroyed for 300 years!. More importantly they burned or threw in the tigress every book they could find, along with the many Islamic scientists and philosophers of which Baghdad was at the time the centre of the world for, it forever changed the ideology of Islam into a backward looking, expansionist and violent one. . Ps the first crusades were actually taking back Christian grounds of Italy and Greece which had been invaded by Islamic forces. You give the West far too much respect, we were too busy fighting each other to fight the middle East How does any of that justify or explain your earlier attack on Islam? You've ignored criticism of your argument that points out the involvement of the West in the root of IS. Do you believe those western influences believe in Wahibism? It's naive to believe that the problem is Islam. It's convenient to blame religion for the proxy wars being fought. . Firstly that was my point of a widely agreed by historians turning point in Islamic rule and doctrine. I'll tackle your main point about American foreign policy, it's not really that great an issue for Al-qaeda. I'll give you an example. American/western foreign policy of stopping the whole sale genocide of Christians in East Timor , now yes the "West" did act rather bad by supplying weapons to the Islamic Indonesian state who were for years hell bent on a genocide of the Portuguese Christian population of East Timor. Now thankfully due to pressure from western society, newspapers and movements, western governments were first, forced to stop selling the weapons and then got a UN embargo in place on the despot Indonesian government, sought the removal of Indonesian forces and a granting of an East Timor independent state. I can't think of any right minded individual that would think that this is bad western foreign policy and intervention, well nobody except Al-qaeda, third on there list of demands is western meddling stopping the genocide of Christians in Indonesia, that's right, they took offence at being made to stop killing Christians from what they saw as an Islamic country!. We could extrapolate this further by asking if they were so irate at American foreign policy of intervention in East Timor how does blowing up children in a music gig in Manchester help, it's like being furious with the EU and blowing up children in Australia as a protest?. Of course, the reality is, it has little to do with western foreign policy and alot to do with the perfect Islamic caliphate, hence the later splinter group of isil(Islamic state of Levant), they simply wish for the perfect conditions to implement Islamic law (Sharia). Denying that this has nothing to do with Islam is like saying the Vatican has nothing to do with Catholicism or the inquisitions had nothing to do with separatist movements of the Christian religion. I don’t think anyone is saying it has nothing to do with Islam. Clearly there is a connection, and an exploitation of much of the literal interpretation of Islam. But that’s substantially different from the view that Islam is to blame, or that Islam should somehow be eradicated." NICE CONCLUSION. What they want is to polarize people creating differences. My best friend is a white female Christian and I'm black male (bad) Muslim. | |||
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