FabSwingers.com forum: Is the Benefit system a ...

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

... Safety net or a bouncy castle ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I see it as a safety net, I'm glad it exists but there needs to be reforms. Everyone I know including myself has been on the dole at some stage, between jobs or after completing college and job hunting but then there's people who see it as a lifestyle choice. To us natives we're not overly shocked to know people who have left school and signed on for the rest of their lives but an Eastern European lad in work couldn't believe that firstly people choose to do that and secondly that the government mad it relatively easy for them to do so. He suggested that if you've never worked you should not be entitled to the dole and if you have worked you should get paid the weekly wage of your last job for 6mnths and then it should be halved if you haven't employment after that and six months later you should be cut off again or given food vouchers and vouchers for bills only.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fundamentally it's a safety net which gets abused by a minority which the popular press like to portray as a majority... x

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By *V-AliceTV/TS
over a year ago

Ayr

"Fundamentally it's a safety net which gets abused by a minority which the popular press like to portray as a majority... x"

Exactly. Take it away and see what happens.

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

OP What do you mean everyone has been on the dole at some stage? I haven't, my husband hasnt, my two grown up children haven't, my parents haven't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It should be a safety net but far too many see it a career choice, milking it for all its worth with their bogus illnesses and injuries. PTSD is the new illness for the great unwashed. So easy to get that diagnosis and then the benefits roll in. I’m not saying everybody fakes it, of course not but there are plenty out there that do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OP What do you mean everyone has been on the dole at some stage? I haven't, my husband hasnt, my two grown up children haven't, my parents haven't. "

It wasn't the OP that said that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Fundamentally it's a safety net which gets abused by a minority which the popular press like to portray as a majority... x"

You are correct however there are certain postcodes where that minority is not far from the majority.

For some it's a career

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"OP What do you mean everyone has been on the dole at some stage? I haven't, my husband hasnt, my two grown up children haven't, my parents haven't.

It wasn't the OP that said that. "

Thanks for correction

My mistake.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I see it as a safety net, I'm glad it exists but there needs to be reforms. Everyone I know including myself has been on the dole at some stage, between jobs or after completing college and job hunting but then there's people who see it as a lifestyle choice. To us natives we're not overly shocked to know people who have left school and signed on for the rest of their lives but an Eastern European lad in work couldn't believe that firstly people choose to do that and secondly that the government mad it relatively easy for them to do so. He suggested that if you've never worked you should not be entitled to the dole and if you have worked you should get paid the weekly wage of your last job for 6mnths and then it should be halved if you haven't employment after that and six months later you should be cut off again or given food vouchers and vouchers for bills only. "

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OP What do you mean everyone has been on the dole at some stage? I haven't, my husband hasnt, my two grown up children haven't, my parents haven't. "

The op didn't say that. I said it. When I say everyone I know I didn't mean it literally but I would say the majority of people I know have been. All my mates have around my age have been, literally a few months though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"OP What do you mean everyone has been on the dole at some stage? I haven't, my husband hasnt, my two grown up children haven't, my parents haven't.

It wasn't the OP that said that.

Thanks for correction

My mistake. "

Sorry I sounded grumpy again. I wasn't trying to be an arse. x

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By *riskynriskyCouple
over a year ago

Essex.

Benefits were brought in for a small percentage of the population.

By the original standards, today far to many people get far to much money.

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By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester

There was something on the radio today about universal credit.

It sounded a bit out there but something needs to be tried.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I couldn't agree more however there would be a booming black market in vouchers very quickly.

These people aren't stupid, the play the system like a violin.

As long as we have people from upper middle class trying to manage conditions and environments they have absolutely no understanding of people will continue to milk the system dry.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Benefit fraud is very low despite what the papers tell you.. and Ask people where benefits money goes and the assumptions might be on unemployment or incapacity benefit. In fact, 47% of UK benefit spending goes on state pensions of £74.22bn a year, more than the £48.2bn the UK spends on servicing its debt.

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By *entish79Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

So if the benefits system is so lucrative would anyone put their money where their mouth is and consider quitting their jobs for a life on benefits? Or might it actually not be the cushty option some of the press would like us to believe?

I’m actually considering a life of crime because I hear that prison is like a 5 star hotel.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"OP What do you mean everyone has been on the dole at some stage? I haven't, my husband hasnt, my two grown up children haven't, my parents haven't. "

I didn’t say a word, I just asked if it was a safety net or bouncy castle. Oh and I’ve never claim dole in my life either.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"So if the benefits system is so lucrative would anyone put their money where their mouth is and consider quitting their jobs for a life on benefits? Or might it actually not be the cushty option some of the press would like us to believe?

I’m actually considering a life of crime because I hear that prison is like a 5 star hotel. "

Ok, why is it that an ex workmate of mine quit his job after his girlfriend had there children cause he’s better off not working ?

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By *elma and ShaggyCouple
over a year ago

Bedworth

"It should be a safety net but far too many see it a career choice, milking it for all its worth with their bogus illnesses and injuries. PTSD is the new illness for the great unwashed. So easy to get that diagnosis and then the benefits roll in. I’m not saying everybody fakes it, of course not but there are plenty out there that do. "

Please don’t comment on the validity of people with mental illness and/or ptsd unless you have personally been through it. It’s not a nice thing to go through and believe you me, not something that you can actually fake!

I’m not what you would teen ‘great unwashed’ and neither am I sitting watching the benefits roll in. However, after experiencing 8 miscarriages in 8 years, successful treatment for cervical cancer and 3 years of unexplained secondary infertility I was diagnosed with depression, anxiety and ptsd.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m actually considering a life of crime because I hear that prison is like a 5 star hotel.

Ok, why is it that an ex workmate of mine quit his job after his girlfriend had there children cause he’s better off not working ? "

A guy I work with makes something like 16 euro more a week working than he would if he just signed on and stayed at home with his partner and kids. Realistically he's down probably 50+e a week with petrol and lunches etc...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Fundamentally it's a safety net which gets abused by a minority which the popular press like to portray as a majority... x

You are correct however there are certain postcodes where that minority is not far from the majority.

For some it's a career "
yes I'm aware there is a sub culture that has developed and it certainly needs addressing but the press and media Tar all with that brush... bad news sells I guess

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please read my post. I quite clearly said not all people with it are faking it. I wrote that to prevent people jumping on me as you have done. PTSD is very easy to manipulate as it has a plethora of symptoms, one person will have totally different symptoms to the next. Please don’t twist my words or make out I’ve called you something to suit your own agenda because I didn’t.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The way we look at it is, never judge..One day we might need to go on or use the benefits system for whatever reason ..illness , disability ..loss of job..disabled child...if we stood here and criticised or called or judge people we would be hypocrites to use the benefits system ourselves or any of our family members using it for the above reasons..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The benefits system isn’t the cushy life it’s made out to be. And as for disability benefits the government have changed things so that even genuinely disabled people are having to go to tribunals to get what they’re entitled to. There are some real horror stories about the way people have literally been forced into thinking that death is their only option.

The government have spun so much propaganda about fraud within the system yet the actual total is 0.001% or thereabouts. But they would rather people focus on that than the benefits of being an MP and the money they misspend x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The way we look at it is, never judge..One day we might need to go on or use the benefits system for whatever reason ..illness , disability ..loss of job..disabled child...if we stood here and criticised or called or judge people we would be hypocrites to use the benefits system ourselves or any of our family members using it for the above reasons.."

I don’t think anybody would criticise anybody on any kind of benefit if they deserved it. The people being criticised are those that see it as a career choice and milk it for all they can.

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

What people don’t realise is that child benefits and tax credits are classed as a benefit as well

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The benefits system isn’t the cushy life it’s made out to be. And as for disability benefits the government have changed things so that even genuinely disabled people are having to go to tribunals to get what they’re entitled to. There are some real horror stories about the way people have literally been forced into thinking that death is their only option.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm washed and never have claimed for it!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, tax evasion is seen as a perk. It’s not illegal, just immoral x

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By *ulfilthmentMan
over a year ago

Just around the corner

Depends entirely on the user. I count myself lucky that I once had to sign on for a fortnight about 20 years ago. I’d hate to have to do it again, but I’m glad that it’s there as a last resort.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m actually considering a life of crime because I hear that prison is like a 5 star hotel. "

Nobody is claiming its lucrative however for the standard of living, the life expectations and the ambitions some of these people have it's a viable option. Especially now as they know every penny they can claim for.

I'm not saying that's everyone unemployed btw but there is a section of society who are very successful playing the system.

I notice you have Glasgow on your profile, if you disagree have a look next time you pass certain postcodes during a working day.

You'll see plenty of people, not at work kicking about with a Hugo Boss tracksuit on, talking on their iPhone just as they leave they pub to nip into the bookies.

As I said that's not everyone but there are plenty of them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I couldn't agree more however there would be a booming black market in vouchers very quickly.

These people aren't stupid, the play the system like a violin.

As long as we have people from upper middle class trying to manage conditions and environments they have absolutely no understanding of people will continue to milk the system dry."

Explain your last paragraph please

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m actually considering a life of crime because I hear that prison is like a 5 star hotel.

I'm not saying that's everyone unemployed btw but there is a section of society who are very successful playing the system.

I notice you have Glasgow on your profile, if you disagree have a look next time you pass certain postcodes during a working day.

You'll see plenty of people, not at work kicking about with a Hugo Boss tracksuit on, talking on their iPhone just as they leave they pub to nip into the bookies.

As I said that's not everyone but there are plenty of them"

Precisely. We are talking about the benefits street type people who have never worked a day in their lives and they pass on the tricks of the benefit trade to their kids and so on. We are not talking about the down on his luck guy who is between jobs and uses it as a safety net as it should be.

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

Exactly this! I have a disabled son who I’m currently waiting to get full diagnosisses for to claim DLA for him I have 2 life long disabilities that if I wanted to I could claim for but until it gets to the point I can’t work because of it I won’t claim

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if you can work it is better for your well-being, well done

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

PTSD is the new illness of the great unwashed.

The tone of that is pretty obvious, so not sure which wprds are being twisted

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

if you can work it is better for your well-being, well done"

I would go stir crazy if I was at home all the time while I’m well

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And you my love are the perfect example of who should be in receipt of benefits. I applaud you for continuing to work, many out there would not. Good luck.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think people should remember that more money is lost each year due to overpayment as a result of clerical error than benefit fraud

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m actually considering a life of crime because I hear that prison is like a 5 star hotel.

I'm not saying that's everyone unemployed btw but there is a section of society who are very successful playing the system.

I notice you have Glasgow on your profile, if you disagree have a look next time you pass certain postcodes during a working day.

You'll see plenty of people, not at work kicking about with a Hugo Boss tracksuit on, talking on their iPhone just as they leave they pub to nip into the bookies.

As I said that's not everyone but there are plenty of them

Are you seriously judging the unemployed based on a sensationakised TV program rather than any real world experience?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

PTSD is the new illness of the great unwashed.

The tone of that is pretty obvious, so not sure which wprds are being twisted "

I shall try to explain. In my working life I deal with the dregs of society, smack heads, crack heads, the type of people that would and often do sell their own mothers. I have noticed in recent years that many of these types are diagnosed with PTSD for an uncorroborated incident which happened many years ago, they tell you this with a wry smile. Those are the great unwashed I refer to, I wasn’t calling people with PTSD the great unwashed. I also deal with many people who are crippled by the illness, I’ve attended suicides of ex servicemen with it and just recently I received a letter from one in particular which stated that i saved his life, literally, I won’t go into details but I’m just demonstrating that there are genuine people out there and there are those that tell lies in order to cheat the system. It goes on, believe me.

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

And you my love are the perfect example of who should be in receipt of benefits. I applaud you for continuing to work, many out there would not. Good luck."

I don’t see why I should claim while I’m still able to work, I know my essential tremors have a chance of getting worse and my cluster headaches can go from episodic to chronic in the mean time I want to make memories with my kids of a healthy (as possible) mum

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

"Benefits were brought in for a small percentage of the population.

By the original standards, today far to many people get far to much money."

There is truth in that.

The Beveridge Report of the early 1940s identified five great scourges affecting Britain - disease, squalor, want, idleness and ignorance.

The post-1945 programmes were aimed at tackling each - the NHS to combat disease, council housing to combat squalor, the welfare state to combat want, nationalised industry to combat want and state education to combat ignorance.

Nationalisation of industry meant there would be a job for everyone, so the welfare state was intended to look after only those who were too old or too ill to work.

You can see the logic when you piece it all together.

Most of these other programmes that ran side by side with the welfare state started to disintegrate under Thatcher.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m actually considering a life of crime because I hear that prison is like a 5 star hotel.

I'm not saying that's everyone unemployed btw but there is a section of society who are very successful playing the system.

I notice you have Glasgow on your profile, if you disagree have a look next time you pass certain postcodes during a working day.

You'll see plenty of people, not at work kicking about with a Hugo Boss tracksuit on, talking on their iPhone just as they leave they pub to nip into the bookies.

As I said that's not everyone but there are plenty of them

Are you seriously judging the unemployed based on a sensationakised TV program rather than any real world experience?

No, it was an example which is obvious. I have tons of experience in dealing with the types of people I refer to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've been unemployed for just over a few months. It was awful, a truly miserable existence. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. The fact that some people choose that lifestyle is a reflection of cost of living and uncapped rental market that combined in no way come close to matching the minimum wage particularly if you have the misfortune to be on a zero hour contract. The situation is compounded even further if childcare costs need to be factored in.

Maybe instead of being angry that a few people choose that route, we should get angry at a system that is so fucked up it means that it;s the best option for some?

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

* nationalised industry to combat idleness, not want

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I've been unemployed for just over a few months. It was awful, a truly miserable existence. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. The fact that some people choose that lifestyle is a reflection of cost of living and uncapped rental market that combined in no way come close to matching the minimum wage particularly if you have the misfortune to be on a zero hour contract. The situation is compounded even further if childcare costs need to be factored in.

Maybe instead of being angry that a few people choose that route, we should get angry at a system that is so fucked up it means that it;s the best option for some?"

You are not the type of person being criticised. You used it as a crutch until you found another job. Who wouldn’t. I certainly would if I found myself unemployed. That’s what it’s there for but its open to abuse. The whole system needs overhauling as you say but that doesn’t make it right to abuse it, which many out there do.

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By *orkie321bWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"I think people should remember that more money is lost each year due to overpayment as a result of clerical error than benefit fraud"

It's also worth noting that billions of pounds of benefits are not being claimed by people who are entitled to them.

I don't want to fall foul of forum rules for publishing a link so here is an excerpt I have copied and pasted.

Up to £12.4 billion of means-tested benefits – including pension credit, housing benefit and jobseekers and employment support allowance – were left unclaimed in 2015-16, according to new data released by the UK’s Department for Work and Pensions.

Means-tested benefits are designed to ensure a minimum standard of living for Britain’s poorest families. But not all those people eligible are claiming them – in comparison to the near universal take-up rate of the basic state pension and widespread take-up of child benefit (which is taxable only for high earners).

Annual average amounts unclaimed by eligible families vary from an estimated £5,000 per year for those eligible for employment support allowance (for those with a disability or long-term illness), to £2,000 per year for those eligible for pension credit. In a parallel data series HM Revenue & Customs estimates take-up rates for tax credits – which are paid directly to qualifying low paid workers.

The latest data for 2014-15 adds further to the scale of unclaimed entitlements. The central estimate is that £2.3 billion of child tax credit and £3 billion of working tax credit went unclaimed by 640,000 families and 1.2m families respectively.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It would be an interesting exercise to do something like this :-

For those perfectly able to work but "can't find a job" - give them work cleaning the streets, sprucing town centres up etc. - and, in return, increase their benefit by 50% for 12 months with a view to them moving into other employment within that year.

For those who don't take up this offer, decrease their benefit by 50%.

Would sort the wheat from the chaff.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would be an interesting exercise to do something like this :-

For those who don't take up this offer, decrease their benefit by 50%.

Would sort the wheat from the chaff. "

Or if we need people to clean the street. How about the councils create jobs and pay people a proper wage for doing the job?

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By *orkie321bWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"It would be an interesting exercise to do something like this :-

For those who don't take up this offer, decrease their benefit by 50%.

Would sort the wheat from the chaff. "

If there is "work" available for people on benefits to do in exchange for the money they receive then they should be employing people to do it. Using people as slave labour is not on!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would be an interesting exercise to do something like this :-

For those who don't take up this offer, decrease their benefit by 50%.

Would sort the wheat from the chaff.

Or if we need people to clean the street. How about the councils create jobs and pay people a proper wage for doing the job?

you miss the point my friend - that would just attract people happy to work - this is to test the theory that there are lazy arseholes abusing the system.

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By *entish79Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I’m actually considering a life of crime because I hear that prison is like a 5 star hotel.

Ok, why is it that an ex workmate of mine quit his job after his girlfriend had there children cause he’s better off not working ? "

I don’t know. Probably because for every general truism someone knows someone that provides the exception that proves the rule.

Isn’t there a benefits rule that you’re not eligible if you just quit a job for no apparent reason?

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

I’m actually considering a life of crime because I hear that prison is like a 5 star hotel.

Ok, why is it that an ex workmate of mine quit his job after his girlfriend had there children cause he’s better off not working ?

I don’t know. Probably because for every general truism someone knows someone that provides the exception that proves the rule.

Isn’t there a benefits rule that you’re not eligible if you just quit a job for no apparent reason?

As far as I’m aware you can’t claim for 6 months if you quit but you can if you get sacked

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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

I remember a few years ago, the was a group of 4 of us and I was the only one working (always have all my life) and they jokingly laughed that they could go about their wheeler dealerships to their hearts content, pissed me off no end, to which point I dropped all contact!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would be an interesting exercise to do something like this :-

For those who don't take up this offer, decrease their benefit by 50%.

Would sort the wheat from the chaff.

Or if we need people to clean the street. How about the councils create jobs and pay people a proper wage for doing the job?

you miss the point my friend - that would just attract people happy to work - this is to test the theory that there are lazy arseholes abusing the system."

No I don't miss the point my friend. You know that many employers took advantage of workfare by using the unemployed as free labour. No jobs at the end, just another batch of poor bastards working for their benefits. And an employer filling positions with people that can;t look for jobs because they are working fulltime, just not being paid for it

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By *entish79Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I’m actually considering a life of crime because I hear that prison is like a 5 star hotel.

I'm not saying that's everyone unemployed btw but there is a section of society who are very successful playing the system.

I notice you have Glasgow on your profile, if you disagree have a look next time you pass certain postcodes during a working day.

You'll see plenty of people, not at work kicking about with a Hugo Boss tracksuit on, talking on their iPhone just as they leave they pub to nip into the bookies.

As I said that's not everyone but there are plenty of them"

There were suggestions that some saw it as a career choice. If it’s bringing in as much money as a career that certainly suggests it can be fairly lucrative.

I’m not convinced that someone with an iPhone on a contract is necessarily that well off. They’ll just have made that choice with what they spend what money they do have on.

Sometimes something like that isn’t an indication of wealth, but rather that they might just go short in other areas.

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By *ky19Man
over a year ago

Plymouth

"Fundamentally it's a safety net which gets abused by a minority which the popular press like to portray as a majority... x"

Absolutely this!

Too much focus on some cheaters. I think it's sick that we'd rather cause horrible suffering to many people just to get at a relative minority the kind you see on Benefits St, rather than have a fair and compassionate system in which there might always be a few scammers who do get through the net.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would be an interesting exercise to do something like this :-

For those who don't take up this offer, decrease their benefit by 50%.

Would sort the wheat from the chaff.

Or if we need people to clean the street. How about the councils create jobs and pay people a proper wage for doing the job?

you miss the point my friend - that would just attract people happy to work - this is to test the theory that there are lazy arseholes abusing the system.

erm - that's why there was a 50% incentive built into the idea - doesn't matter, it was only an idea to test the theory - but now we are getting to the crux of the matter you see. Pussy footing lefties will ensure that the "lazy" will scrounge freely, thereby depriving the genuinely sick and disabled etc.

"If you do what you've always done - you'll get what you've always got" - time to try something different.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a former employee of the DWP I can actually confirm that it's not an easy task to stay on benefits long term and unchallenged. Sanctions can and do get given at the drop of a hat, very strict guidelines on claiming Job seekers allowance which is probably even worse now. People on sickness benefits getting called in for personal capability assessments and then being denied benefits even when they actually need them.

It's programmes that are created for our entertainment that focus on a very very small minority and are exaggerated like fuck, it doesn't really reflect the truth.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are definitely people who abuse the system, however I've known people who would have become homeless with no other options without it. They would have probably died on the street. They're now off benefits of any sort and have their own house/job/family/etc. So I think it's necessary, but it's a shame that people abuse it. The few ruin it for the many.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have 2 relatives who have claimed various "disability" benefits for years - and trust me - absolutely nothing wrong with them whatsoever - just professional "stick walkers" who have a new car every 3 years etc. on our taxes.

Another who has worked for about 2 years in his entire life - now 63 - and always lived in decent houses on benefits.

Does make you wonder...

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"It would be an interesting exercise to do something like this :-

For those who don't take up this offer, decrease their benefit by 50%.

Would sort the wheat from the chaff.

Or if we need people to clean the street. How about the councils create jobs and pay people a proper wage for doing the job?

you miss the point my friend - that would just attract people happy to work - this is to test the theory that there are lazy arseholes abusing the system.

"If you do what you've always done - you'll get what you've always got" - time to try something different."

If there are jobs out there but employers can get people on benefits to do them at less than the going rate for the job, then of course they will employ the people on benefits.

Meanwhile the people who would have got the jobs at the going rate are now on benefits.

End result, the only people to benefit are employers.

Tell me again why it's a good idea?

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By *ilbearniMan
over a year ago

peninsula

"Benefit fraud is very low despite what the papers tell you.. and Ask people where benefits money goes and the assumptions might be on unemployment or incapacity benefit. In fact, 47% of UK benefit spending goes on state pensions of £74.22bn a year, more than the £48.2bn the UK spends on servicing its debt."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a sham. When people are better off being on benefits than working, there is something sadly wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If there are jobs out there but employers can get people on benefits to do them at less than the going rate for the job, then of course they will employ the people on benefits.

Meanwhile the people who would have got the jobs at the going rate are now on benefits.

End result, the only people to benefit are employers.

Tell me again why it's a good idea? "

Jeez - this is hard. You would be only targeting those on benefits - and it is an idea to test the theory that people are abusing the system. It has worked elsewhere very successfully. You are merely asking them to work for an increase in benefit with a view to them developing the work ethic again and moving into gainful employment.

Not commenting anymore because it really is quite easy to understand!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It would be an interesting exercise to do something like this :-

For those who don't take up this offer, decrease their benefit by 50%.

Would sort the wheat from the chaff.

Or if we need people to clean the street. How about the councils create jobs and pay people a proper wage for doing the job?

you miss the point my friend - that would just attract people happy to work - this is to test the theory that there are lazy arseholes abusing the system.

"If you do what you've always done - you'll get what you've always got" - time to try something different."

I;m not sure how suggesting a wage in exchange for work makes me a "pussy footing leftie"?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If there are jobs out there but employers can get people on benefits to do them at less than the going rate for the job, then of course they will employ the people on benefits.

Meanwhile the people who would have got the jobs at the going rate are now on benefits.

End result, the only people to benefit are employers.

Tell me again why it's a good idea?

Not commenting anymore because it really is quite easy to understand! "

How does cleaning streets for less than minimum wage introduce a work ethic?

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"If there are jobs out there but employers can get people on benefits to do them at less than the going rate for the job, then of course they will employ the people on benefits.

Meanwhile the people who would have got the jobs at the going rate are now on benefits.

End result, the only people to benefit are employers.

Tell me again why it's a good idea?

Not commenting anymore because it really is quite easy to understand! "

Either there are jobs to be done or there aren't. If there aren't jobs to be done you are effectively making people do pointless work to punish them for being unemployed. You would also massively increase the benefit bill, which taxpayers would have to pay for.

If there are jobs to be done, the taxpayer is then subsidising employers who no longer have to pay the going rate.

As ideas go, it's up there with Brexit.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

I thought of it as a safety net when I needed it after an operation. The up was on the day I was being made redundant.

It helped me for 3 months, I know it is slightly different benefits but glad they were there for me.

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By *entish79Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I have 2 relatives who have claimed various "disability" benefits for years - and trust me - absolutely nothing wrong with them whatsoever - just professional "stick walkers" who have a new car every 3 years etc. on our taxes.

Another who has worked for about 2 years in his entire life - now 63 - and always lived in decent houses on benefits.

Does make you wonder..."

A new car every three years etc?

I must admit that sounds a lot. Do you know roughly how much they get per year in benefits?

Also, what are the different disability benefits they are on?

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"OP What do you mean everyone has been on the dole at some stage? I haven't, my husband hasnt, my two grown up children haven't, my parents haven't. "

I've never been on a bouncy castle either

Cal

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In Ireland it is beyond a joke in some cases. This was an interesting read from a few months ago. A woman in a town here would need a job off 120 grand a year to justify finding a job.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/mother-would-require-120k-salary-to-make-amount-she-receives-in-state-benefits-court-hears-36497788.html

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In my area of the first 10 homes there's 7 young people on the dole with no illness or disabilities. If I was to go through the whole area I'd it would be close to 50% of the young on the dole and probably 90% of that have no reason not to work. Sometimes it's their upbringing. It's passed from generation to generation so they don't know better.

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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"I remember a few years ago, the was a group of 4 of us and I was the only one working (always have all my life) and they jokingly laughed that they could go about their wheeler dealerships to their hearts content, pissed me off no end, to which point I dropped all contact!

I should also point out, that having a family member in dire need of help, it is a near on nightmare trying to find out how to get it, that it took nearly 3 years! So I would love to know how others find out the loop holes whilst others have no idea where to turn to get genuine help? The whole system is a total bizarre situation for me to follow

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In Ireland it is beyond a joke in some cases. This was an interesting read from a few months ago. A woman in a town here would need a job off 120 grand a year to justify finding a job.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/mother-would-require-120k-salary-to-make-amount-she-receives-in-state-benefits-court-hears-36497788.html"

Madness

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By *ky19Man
over a year ago

Plymouth

Another who has worked for about 2 years in his entire life - now 63 - and always lived in decent houses on benefits.

Does make you wonder..."

Now this, and other posts like it, do describe something disgusting. It would be good for this to be dealt with. I think we all know at least one person like this.

On the other hand, I know several people, 2 or even 3 in particular, who very much need help who have had their benefits cut and are unable to survive. I am paying someone else's rent, and other expenses in Portsmouth as well as my own elsewhere, on a zero hour minimum wage, no night pay. For close to a decade now. Meanwhile I walk around with holes in my clothes. However I do admit I spend around £25-£30 a month (not week) on smokes. For the time being its a bit of a crutch tbh. I don't drink whatsoever, zero drugs - ever BTW, despite everyone and their dog regularly accusing me without proof, never go out, save every bit of money (except the £25/mth). No real hope of change anytime soon. I will never do so but I understand why suicide is increasing.

Let's make it even closer to impossible for these people, and also myself, because the most important thing is getting at those benefit st types who make us so very indignant. Genuine people suffering and dying will just have to be a necessary cost. As long as we get to finally vent our salt-filled hate at Bob and his missus down the street, and have our indignation satisfied.

Please tell me that paragraph is a strawman.

I agree MPs and corporations should be the ones to come under greater focus.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It needs balancing, but just not the way they're going about it right now.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Excluding pensions, by far the largest benefit pay-out goes to people who are in work.

They are working for employers paying them an income that is too low to live on, so the state effectively subsidises the employer's labour costs by helping with things like income support, council tax benefit, housing benefit.

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"Excluding pensions, by far the largest benefit pay-out goes to people who are in work.

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By *ky19Man
over a year ago

Plymouth

One more thing (Columbo)

Just forgot to mention I've never been on a penny of benefits myself. I've almost certainly worked at times I wasn't well enough to, legs shaking, struggling to stand etc all just blamed on not existent drugs I've never taken.

OK sorry /personal soapbox.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"If there are jobs out there but employers can get people on benefits to do them at less than the going rate for the job, then of course they will employ the people on benefits.

Meanwhile the people who would have got the jobs at the going rate are now on benefits.

End result, the only people to benefit are employers.

Tell me again why it's a good idea?

Not commenting anymore because it really is quite easy to understand! "

But if there are jobs, why should employers get cheap labour off the state?

The logical conclusion of your idea is the kind of thing that now exists in America:

Prisons are privatised. Prisoners must do unpaid work. Private companies bid for prisoners to do their work, not being paid, effectively slave labour. This is very good for those companies, so they lobby legislature for tougher sentencing, so you get things like the "three strikes" system which keeps prisons full of new slaves....

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By *agluvrMan
over a year ago

Airdrie

"OP What do you mean everyone has been on the dole at some stage? I haven't, my husband hasnt, my two grown up children haven't, my parents haven't. "

I don’t think the OP meant that as any slight. I was in the same job for 16 years until being made redundant. Luckily I found a job after only 3 weeks but it could’ve been a lot worse and I’m grateful that I was able to claim any sort of benefits in that 3 week period.

The benefit system is an important safety net but unfortunately there is a hardcore of people out there that know how to play the system. I’ve met some personally, and I’m sure if others haven’t the Daily Hail will be happy to point them out.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

Another who has worked for about 2 years in his entire life - now 63 - and always lived in decent houses on benefits.

Does make you wonder...

Now this, and other posts like it, do describe something disgusting. It would be good for this to be dealt with. I think we all know at least one person like this.

Please tell me that paragraph is a strawman.

I agree MPs and corporations should be the ones to come under greater focus."

On the other hand, the working class squabbling with benefit claimants is like two tramps fighting over 50p. Still, it keeps people distracted whilst Amazon avoids billions in tax....

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By *ky19Man
over a year ago

Plymouth

"It needs balancing, but just not the way they're going about it right now."

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I have a friend with a disabled child - lives on her own with him, benefits cut (no PIP) and she has gone hungry to make sure he eats.

He is fully dependent on her and she can’t work because she is a carer.

This government is immoral and disgusting. Her poverty is directly linked and a consequence of their policies.

A very small proportion take advantage of the system but because of the negative influence in the media and on policy makers, the majority suffer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That lad should be running the country that's one of the best ideas I've ever heard

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By *ky19Man
over a year ago

Plymouth

"I have a friend with a disabled child - lives on her own with him, benefits cut (no PIP) and she has gone hungry to make sure he eats.

He is fully dependent on her and she can’t work because she is a carer.

This government is immoral and disgusting. Her poverty is directly linked and a consequence of their policies.

A very small proportion take advantage of the system but because of the negative influence in the media and on policy makers, the majority suffer. "

I'm really sorry to hear this dude, I understand (at least to some degree) how awful it is.

It's the same situation the person I'm mainly paying for is in (I contribute to a couple of others).

Unlike many I get how sick the government really are, its like there from another world. Yet we vote them in.

Rather that than vote someone like Corbyn, who goodness me, said something offensive! Now that really is terrible.

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By *egasus NobMan
over a year ago

Merton

The working and middle class duking it out, meanwhile the rich jetting off with millions in bonus.

What do you think will happen if the benefits system was removed?

The country becomes broke because the rich investors have no other reason to stay. The benefits system plays a part in keeping people at bay enough not to alarm the rich.

solution increase salaries but that will only increase house price and rent and it all becomes cat and mouse game.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And you my love are the perfect example of who should be in receipt of benefits. I applaud you for continuing to work, many out there would not. Good luck."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The problem with the benefits system is/was working tax credits.

These have enabled lurative buisnesses to reduce wages to a point where people can be employed but still recieve benefits in order to live. In effect subsidising the profits of private busineses.

There are some people who do take advantage of benefits... baby factories who have child after child and then cimplain because their council house isnt big enough for thr family so get put in rented accomodation.

Thankfully these are the minority but much like the press has deamonised hard working civil servants thay have those on benefits.

Its all part of the elite stratergy of divide and rule, let them fight amongst themsevles and well get away with murder( well profiteering)

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford

"The problem with the benefits system is/was working tax credits.

These have enabled lurative buisnesses to reduce wages to a point where people can be employed but still recieve benefits in order to live. In effect subsidising the profits of private busineses.

Thankfully these are the minority but much like the press has deamonised hard working civil servants thay have those on benefits.

Its all part of the elite stratergy of divide and rule, let them fight amongst themsevles and well get away with murder( well profiteering)"

Exactly - if you look at it, it should be that wages go up, not benefits down.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

We live in a low wage economy. Benefits shore that economy up. We're no more than pawns in a game.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

How much does the dole pay these days? just out of interest.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Another who has worked for about 2 years in his entire life - now 63 - and always lived in decent houses on benefits.

Does make you wonder...

A new car every three years etc?

I must admit that sounds a lot. Do you know roughly how much they get per year in benefits?

Also, what are the different disability benefits they are on?"

The new car referred to will be a motorbility car, they get brand new ones every three years which includes insurance, tax and servicing, even a full set of tyres. All they have to do is add fuel.

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By *endoverhappyMan
over a year ago

Darlington

"... Safety net or a bouncy castle ? "

You still here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The problem with the benefits system is/was working tax credits.

These have enabled lurative buisnesses to reduce wages to a point where people can be employed but still recieve benefits in order to live. In effect subsidising the profits of private busineses.

Thankfully these are the minority but much like the press has deamonised hard working civil servants thay have those on benefits.

Its all part of the elite stratergy of divide and rule, let them fight amongst themsevles and well get away with murder( well profiteering)"

Child tax credit is only paid out to the first two children. A third or subsequent child born after a certain date no longer qualifies.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

An aspiration for some.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Safety net. The bouncy castle is tax avoidance. Thousands of people investigate benefit fraud while a couple of hundred investigate tax avoidance and evasion. Loss to economy from benefit from approximately £1.2 billion, from tax avoidance £100 billion +. EU tax avoidance legislation starts 2019. The real reason we had a referendum.

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By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"I think people should remember that more money is lost each year due to overpayment as a result of clerical error than benefit fraud"
.

Yea but that's just because the vast majority of fraud doesn't get picked up on and that's not even before you get into the genuine ones who could actually work!.

I've got a neighbour who hasn't worked for 30 years from depression, it's a terrible illness I know, but he's managed to do everything else in life except work, kids, grandkids, holidays, dog walking, gardening, car washing, window cleaning up ladders.. But unable to do a job, any job? For 30 years, I chat to him at weekends and stuff and he still talks about the job he did when he was 25 the last time he worked in 1988!!

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By *riefcase_WankerMan
over a year ago

Milton Keynes

" No, tax evasion is seen as a perk. It’s not illegal, just immoral x "

Tax evasion is actually illegal.

Tax avoidance is legal but ethically dubious

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By *riefcase_WankerMan
over a year ago

Milton Keynes

"It would be an interesting exercise to do something like this :-

For those who don't take up this offer, decrease their benefit by 50%.

Would sort the wheat from the chaff.

If there is "work" available for people on benefits to do in exchange for the money they receive then they should be employing people to do it. Using people as slave labour is not on!"

A little while ago a friend's brother was made redundant from his job working in the suit department at M&S. Out of work, and needing to put food on the table, he signed on - and when they asked whether he'd be willing to do work experience he agreed, as anything that gave him more opportunity to find a new job was welcome in his eyes.

Under the workfare scheme he was placed in a position, funded by the taxpayer...working in the suit department at M&S

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By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"Safety net. The bouncy castle is tax avoidance. Thousands of people investigate benefit fraud while a couple of hundred investigate tax avoidance and evasion. Loss to economy from benefit from approximately £1.2 billion, from tax avoidance £100 billion +. EU tax avoidance legislation starts 2019. The real reason we had a referendum."
.

It's not mutually exclusive though, like we can only do one or the other?.

We should and could be doing both!

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It's not much of a safety net - people have faced massive cuts over years and new benefits make people wait weeks for any money. An empty purse doesn't feed kids or pay rent.

Most benefits are paid to people in work - providing a bouncy castle, for low paying employers. Taxpayers are now subsidizing directors bonuses. Bouncy castles for the rich.

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By *lbert_shlossedMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"It's not much of a safety net - people have faced massive cuts over years and new benefits make people wait weeks for any money. An empty purse doesn't feed kids or pay rent.

Most benefits are paid to people in work - providing a bouncy castle, for low paying employers. Taxpayers are now subsidizing directors bonuses. Bouncy castles for the rich. "
.

That is a perceptive but disability, unemployment and housing benefit alone stacks up to 66 billion pounds a year.

That's an awful lot of money for a nation of 66 million people

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By *riefcase_WankerMan
over a year ago

Milton Keynes

I often wonder - for those people who are vehemently against the benefits system, or at least in its current guise...

What price would you put on one human life? You can cut it either way - how much would you pay to save someone, or how much would they have to pay you to kill someone - if there were a cast-iron guarantee that you would not be held accountable.

Because ultimately, when you strip away the fluff and get to the essence of what this is about, that's what this comes down to - there are people who have died because of the cuts and changes to the benefits system, and there are those that claim fraudulently and milk the system.

We are unwilling to save the former due to the distaste at the latter...but make no mistake, it is nothing to do with whether or not we as a country can actually afford it.

When Osborne was Chancellor we issued £10bn worth of pensioner bonds at a rate of 4% interest. This was, in effect, borrowing money off old folks and paying them a juicy rate, over 4x what the government could have got if it had borrowed from the market at the time (and at a time we were being told that public borrowing was out of control)

In other words, the government paid around half a billion pounds to bribe old people, because they know they vote.

The argument against the welfare state is an ideological one, not economic. And we have a government that sees human lives as an acceptable cost of pursuing that ideal. That is the long and the short of it.

I'd be interested to see what becomes of basic income...it's an idea that's been mooted for a fair while now, and is that curious beast that spans the political spectrum; even the notorious beeding-heart leftie Milton Friedman backed it...

With the advent of so much automation (strangely I've never heard anyone say "fucking robots, coming over here, stealing our jobs" as they might about immigrants, despite the fact immigrants pay taxes, use services and spend money, thus contributing to the economy) it seems almost inevitable that a basic income might become not only possible but utterly necessary. It's as the idiom goes..."there is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come"

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By *orkie321bWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"How much does the dole pay these days? just out of interest."

There is no such thing as the dole these days. The benefit people receive is job seekers allowance which is £73.10 a week for a single person aged 25 and over.

I am in receipt of benefits - specifically carers allowance. I get £64.60 a week and to qualify for that I must be caring for someone (my mum) for at least 35 hours a week. The reality is I actually care for 80+ hours a week which works out at 80p an hour!

People who get JSA also get free prescriptions, free dental treatment etc whilst those on carers allowance don't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What always surprises me in discussions like this is how much people know about friends/neighbours/relatives, their financial and health situations, they have new cars, iphones and no health problems etc.

My father looked well, was always dressed impeccably, had a new car on the Mobility scheme every 4 years and owned a decent phone. To those on the outside looking in it was very easy to judge that he was scrounging the system.

What people didn't know was he was terminally ill, the cars were updated through the scheme and were essential to regular hospital appointments. The good phone was free with the contract taken out to try and minimise the costs for calling DWP, Local Authorities, Hospials etc that could end up costing a fortune other wise. His clothes were charity shop finds, kept pristine through care and attention. He served his country, survived a terrorist attack and worked since the age of 12.

When he died aged 52 I asked one particularly judgemental neighbour if he was ill enough for benefits now.

Moral of my rambling, don't be fooled by outward appearances

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By *ve 66Woman
over a year ago

Blackwood

I've just started work after 4 years own dole... only doing 12 hrs a week and I thought I could do 16. Stopped my JSA and now have to pay my council tax. So a lot worse off.

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

"How much does the dole pay these days? just out of interest.

There is no such thing as the dole these days. The benefit people receive is job seekers allowance which is £73.10 a week for a single person aged 25 and over.

People who get JSA also get free prescriptions, free dental treatment etc whilst those on carers allowance don't.

Not a lot to make last a week really is it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A guy I work with makes something like 16 euro more a week working than he would if he just signed on and stayed at home with his partner and kids. Realistically he's down probably 50+e a week with petrol and lunches etc... "

Is that because benefits especially child benefit, is too high, or that wages are too low?

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By *riefcase_WankerMan
over a year ago

Milton Keynes

Is that because benefits especially child benefit, is too high, or that wages are too low?

I can't remember the exact stats, but there was some research that looked into how benefits now compared to benefits in the past, relative to the average income. The benefits now (well, JSA specifically I think) is significantly lower now than it was.

I think it's obvious that wages now vs cost of living are too low. Families used to by and large have a breadwinner and a homemaker - now the majority are in a situation where both *have* to work...

Add to that the recent downward pressure on incomes - I believe it was the longest sustained fall in real incomes on record, something like 20 odd quarters in which it dropped, and it's clear that life basically costs too much and doesn't pay enough

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By *ystical_InkedBBWWoman
over a year ago

somewhere in the Shire of Derby

Majority of people in receipt of benefits nowadays are people who are on very low incomes and have to claim top ups. Benefit system has changed alot and not as easy to get anymore. PIP which replaced DLA is the hardest to get due to the way they assess people and more and more people end up having to appeal and go to tribunals as it's a points system and so many are getting marked down.

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By *ystical_InkedBBWWoman
over a year ago

somewhere in the Shire of Derby

[Removed by poster at 25/07/18 07:44:14]

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By *ystical_InkedBBWWoman
over a year ago

somewhere in the Shire of Derby

Another who has worked for about 2 years in his entire life - now 63 - and always lived in decent houses on benefits.

Does make you wonder...

A new car every three years etc?

I must admit that sounds a lot. Do you know roughly how much they get per year in benefits?

Also, what are the different disability benefits they are on?

The new car referred to will be a motorbility car, they get brand new ones every three years which includes insurance, tax and servicing, even a full set of tyres. All they have to do is add fuel. "

The only way a person qualifies for a motability car is that they have to be on the highest rate mobility component of PIP or what was DLA or War Pensioners Mobility Supplement, and you do not get that awarded easily. They can then use that money to pay for the lease of a car or a mobility scooter if they choose to. If they want a car that is on the list and it is valued above the weekly payment they then have to pay an advanced payment. Majority of vehicle adaptations are now covered under the scheme unless you need a wheel chair accessible vehicle and then you will very likely have to contribute to the cost of the adaptations. The new system means no-one can wing it and get the high rate payments.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

The comment raised and praised by some of the Eastern European suggestion of getting dole for 6 months actually exists in a similar format in Germany.

There, when you lose your job, your employment benefits match exactly what you earned in that job before losing it & that is paid to you for a year! Plus their Job Centre equivalent do the job hunting for you but there are strict T&C's to implement it all.

I've been out of work 3 times since 2011 & signed on each time. In one period of a year unemployed, I did Voluntary Work, anything to do, even classifying Looking For Work as a job in itself! In that year, I applied for over 1200 jobs but only 14 responses! Job Centre staff recognised I was doing my best and I won out with Benefits etc.

But employers seem to get shy of taking people on, once you have been off work for more than 3-4 months; I once had an employer at interview say "you sit and watch TV all day?" but couldn't believe it when I said I put in 13-14 hours a day job hunting!

Then there are the minority who give everyone else the bad name. Those who whinge because they won't get 2 lots of benefits paid in 1 hit, because they'll be on holiday in Florida! Or the ones driving new cars that even the Civil Servants manning the desks couldn't afford.

I talked to a guy last week whose employer was ceasing trading after being in business for 139 years. The guy himself had worked there 47 yrs but was getting no Redundancy money and only 2 weeks notice of losing work. He's having to start from scratch, how to do a CV, etc but his advance meets with Job Centre staff have been frightening! He's single and has learnt that's worse; if he had a family, kids & all that, he'd be in better straits financially. His future is bleak.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

What i dont understand, and maybe you guys could help is this... how come, once your kids have moved out and you've managed to get well paid jobs let's say over 24k, you can keep your 3 bed local authority house? Shouldn't you get out and let someone who needs it move in ?

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me."
Unemployment benefit was earnings related until the early 1980s - it was Thatcher who eroded the difference between earnings related benefits and the lower level of safety net benefits.

However, the idea of no benefits for people who;ve never worked is a potential trap the LGBTQI kids who need to get out of unsafe home environments - if you need to leave in the morning with everything you own in a little black case, you need somewhere to go and someone to help you get started, and that should be the state.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Single male working hard working 45/50 hours a week,I have pride of getting up and putting in my hard work and yes paying my tax.For me I was brought up and told we have to work for what we have,examples have to be set and I actually love working hard and seeing that money hit the bank and knowing I’m doing something with my life.The government and people the system have a lot to answer for regards to benefits,they encourage people not to work and give them hand outs and people know how to work the system.As a single person you would have no chance on benefits but if you was a unemployed couple with 3/4 kids claiming everything including disability which is common these days your better off than a working couple,it’s all wrong but it comes down to how you was raised and the self respect you have.

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By *entish79Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Single male working hard working 45/50 hours a week,I have pride of getting up and putting in my hard work and yes paying my tax.For me I was brought up and told we have to work for what we have,examples have to be set and I actually love working hard and seeing that money hit the bank and knowing I’m doing something with my life.The government and people the system have a lot to answer for regards to benefits,they encourage people not to work and give them hand outs and people know how to work the system.As a single person you would have no chance on benefits but if you was a unemployed couple with 3/4 kids claiming everything including disability which is common these days your better off than a working couple,it’s all wrong but it comes down to how you was raised and the self respect you have."

I don’t really but this at all. You make it sound like the person / couple with kids are better off because of the child benefit they receive.

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that children do actually cost money to bring up.

Child benefit is currently £20.70 a week for the first child, and £13.70 for any over children.

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By *W ChapMan
over a year ago

Swindon

"OP What do you mean everyone has been on the dole at some stage? I haven't, my husband hasnt, my two grown up children haven't, my parents haven't. "
There by the grace of God etc..

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

We argue amongst ourselves about benefits, while bankers make millions in bonuses, I guess thats the real obscene thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don’t really but this at all. You make it sound like the person / couple with kids are better off because of the child benefit they receive.

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that children do actually cost money to bring up.

Child benefit is currently £20.70 a week for the first child, and £13.70 for any over children.

I dunno about Britain but in Ireland the money a family on the dole receive isn't the only benefit. They'll get money to cover uniform costs etc...too and bills and rent. Not completely cover those costs but there are more benefits than just the weekly money

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"We argue amongst ourselves about benefits, while bankers make millions in bonuses, I guess thats the real obscene thing. "

I guess we should have tried harder at school.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"We argue amongst ourselves about benefits, while bankers make millions in bonuses, I guess thats the real obscene thing.

I guess we should have tried harder at school.

On maybe tried harder to have wealthy parents...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don’t really but this at all. You make it sound like the person / couple with kids are better off because of the child benefit they receive.

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that children do actually cost money to bring up.

Child benefit is currently £20.70 a week for the first child, and £13.70 for any over children.

So even if you have three kids, that’s just £2501.20 per year. Are you seriously telling me that for a family with three kids to raise, clothe and feed, that is so much money that they will be living some sort of Life of Riley?"
yeah but you have no rent Hardly any bills free nhs dentist vets hand outs for everything and not pay a penny towards them.

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

I don’t really but this at all. You make it sound like the person / couple with kids are better off because of the child benefit they receive.

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that children do actually cost money to bring up.

Child benefit is currently £20.70 a week for the first child, and £13.70 for any over children.

So even if you have three kids, that’s just £2501.20 per year. Are you seriously telling me that for a family with three kids to raise, clothe and feed, that is so much money that they will be living some sort of Life of Riley? yeah but you have no rent Hardly any bills free nhs dentist vets hand outs for everything and not pay a penny towards them."

Not everyone is eligible for free rent etc even on low incomes and if you earn a penny over the tax credits threshold you still have to pay for prescriptions etc

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

"What i dont understand, and maybe you guys could help is this... how come, once your kids have moved out and you've managed to get well paid jobs let's say over 24k, you can keep your 3 bed local authority house? Shouldn't you get out and let someone who needs it move in ?"

Do you think they actually want to keep the running costs of a 3 bed when it's become too big for them?

Where are they supposed to move to?

The 1 and 2 bed flats are full of oaps (the ones that weren't flogged off on the cheap that is) or relinquish an LA tenancy for the private rental market with none of the security (though ironically into a 1 or 2 bed EX local authority property).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Should of thought about that before having them? I would think hmmmm does my income cover the amount of kids I have? Nah feck it let’s have as many as we can tony Blair will cover it

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"Should of thought about that before having them? I would think hmmmm does my income cover the amount of kids I have? Nah feck it let’s have as many as we can tony Blair will cover it

I’m on £9k a year which isn’t great, my oh was made redundant earlier this year, we claim benefits we’re entitled to and that’s all

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"Should of thought about that before having them? I would think hmmmm does my income cover the amount of kids I have? Nah feck it let’s have as many as we can tony Blair will cover it

"
Thus is the present day calling with a public information annoucnement - Tony Blair stopped being prime minister a decade ago.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For 9k a year a could afford to keep my entertainment god knows about survival,I just think too many people have taken advantage and not enough have put into the pot and it seems that stems from generations of spongers (in the nicest way) it’s how your raised I think but obviously if you’ve worked every day for 15/20/30/40 years then you get laid off your entitled to them BUT I’ve heard they refuse you because they say you should of had savings.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should of thought about that before having them? I would think hmmmm does my income cover the amount of kids I have? Nah feck it let’s have as many as we can tony Blair will cover it

Thus is the present day calling with a public information annoucnement - Tony Blair stopped being prime minister a decade ago."
correct when the problem started and now citizen khan Lord Mayor

as bad as John major

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

"We argue amongst ourselves about benefits, while bankers make millions in bonuses, I guess thats the real obscene thing. "

Pretty much, the individual cost of covering non pension costs to a basic rate tax payer is pennies. Count your lucky stars you don't need to try an live off of benefits and be thankful it's there if the worst happened. Whenever something like this gets mentioned there always seems to be a sneery attitude and punching down to anyone who doesn't cycle 50 miles a day to work 16 hour shifts and all for 50p an hour...make them sweep the streets, bread and water to eat, look at them they're on the dole and they've got a mobile phone, they're all malingerers and lazy living off my hard work, they have no self respect... it's bullshit nonsensical.

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"For 9k a year a could afford to keep my entertainment god knows about survival,I just think too many people have taken advantage and not enough have put into the pot and it seems that stems from generations of spongers (in the nicest way) it’s how your raised I think but obviously if you’ve worked every day for 15/20/30/40 years then you get laid off your entitled to them BUT I’ve heard they refuse you because they say you should of had savings."

I have worked as much as possible since I was 15, yes I had some time off to be a mum, £9k a year is shit tbh not gonna lie, we didn’t claim anything else because we didn’t want to, plus we used his redundancy for bills etc luckily after 6months he’s working again

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

"Should of thought about that before having them? I would think hmmmm does my income cover the amount of kids I have? Nah feck it let’s have as many as we can tony Blair will cover it

You can obviously see into the future and know for certain that you won't be made redundant from the only steelworks/car plant/ Amazon concentration camp, or that you won't get shunted in an accident and struggle to walk, or have some cunt spray you with acid leaving you blind, are you gonna share this know what's around the corner future proffing technique with everyone?

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By *entish79Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I don’t really but this at all. You make it sound like the person / couple with kids are better off because of the child benefit they receive.

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that children do actually cost money to bring up.

Child benefit is currently £20.70 a week for the first child, and £13.70 for any over children.

So even if you have three kids, that’s just £2501.20 per year. Are you seriously telling me that for a family with three kids to raise, clothe and feed, that is so much money that they will be living some sort of Life of Riley? yeah but you have no rent Hardly any bills free nhs dentist vets hand outs for everything and not pay a penny towards them."

A couple with three kids, with one on incapacity benefit would receive a total of around £14k per year with 2x income support, 1x incapacity benefit, 3x child support.

They may or may not get all their rent or mortgage covered by housing benefit.

Even then, I’m not sure £14k is that much.

And if there are extreme cases, the suggestion that people on benefits are typically living some sort of cushty pampered life is probably nonsense.

And not all the stuff you mention is free, just subsidised.

Put it this way, assuming you’re not already, would you choose to be living on benefits?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you could have claimed more at the time you should have. No one should be embarrassed to use what's available to them when it's needed. People are giving out about lifetime dole claimants not the majority of people that need to claim for whatever reasons.

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By *elloIntrigueMan
over a year ago

North West UK

Ex DWP here. I liked it when I was allowed to assist people to find work rather than be a government heavy, trying to trip good people up.

That's how it felt to be on the working side of the system.

There was a change from me working with someone to help them find work to them having to prove what they were doing, jumping through ever-tightening circles.

Its good people on this thread pointed towards the number of benefits that go unclaimed and also the fact that a good proportion of the benefits bill in this country is paid to pensioners and people actually in work.

It's a crazy situation when a lot of employers won't pay a decent wage and instead, it's the government and taxpayer that subsidises.

There was an interesting comment about workfare too and my experience of this saw certain employers get away with having someone on the books and not paying properly for their services. I was really glad when this was changed.

Now there is a huge emphasis on voluntary work, too much in my opinion.

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By *entish79Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Should of thought about that before having them? I would think hmmmm does my income cover the amount of kids I have? Nah feck it let’s have as many as we can tony Blair will cover it

Yeah, because £2,500 a year towards three kids will have them in the lap of luxury.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Seeing you have added my comment to your comment you can clearly see I work

nah I’d rather be homeless I have to much self respect

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should of thought about that before having them? I would think hmmmm does my income cover the amount of kids I have? Nah feck it let’s have as many as we can tony Blair will cover it

Yeah, because £2,500 a year towards three kids will have them in the lap of luxury.

"
don’t have them if you cannot afford to pay for them out of your wages

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By *apeyeMan
over a year ago

worcester

There’s a job for everyone out there, if you really want work you will find it.

Benefits should be massively scaled back

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"There’s a job for everyone out there, if you really want work you will find it.

Benefits should be massively scaled back"

So does that include child benefit and tax credits?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Should of thought about that before having them? I would think hmmmm does my income cover the amount of kids I have? Nah feck it let’s have as many as we can tony Blair will cover it

Yeah, because £2,500 a year towards three kids will have them in the lap of luxury.

don’t have them if you cannot afford to pay for them out of your wages

What happens if you can afford them when you have them but ten years later your circumstances change?

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

I don’t really but this at all. You make it sound like the person / couple with kids are better off because of the child benefit they receive.

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that children do actually cost money to bring up.

Child benefit is currently £20.70 a week for the first child, and £13.70 for any over children.

So even if you have three kids, that’s just £2501.20 per year. Are you seriously telling me that for a family with three kids to raise, clothe and feed, that is so much money that they will be living some sort of Life of Riley? yeah but you have no rent Hardly any bills free nhs dentist vets hand outs for everything and not pay a penny towards them.

A couple with three kids, with one on incapacity benefit would receive a total of around £14k per year with 2x income support, 1x incapacity benefit, 3x child support.

They may or may not get all their rent or mortgage covered by housing benefit.

Even then, I’m not sure £14k is that much.

And if there are extreme cases, the suggestion that people on benefits are typically living some sort of cushty pampered life is probably nonsense.

And not all the stuff you mention is free, just subsidised.

Put it this way, assuming you’re not already, would you choose to be living on benefits?"

Indeed.

When we get someone who comes along and says. "I gave up my job to go on the dole, because I thought it as the life of Riley and it is", then I'll believe it.

Until then, I'll be sceptical about the stories about people's mate's aunties cousin who knows someone who claims benefit whilst living in a ten bedroom mansion and driving a porsche.

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

"Ok, why is it that an ex workmate of mine quit his job after his girlfriend had there children cause he’s better off not working ? "

Are you so up to date with every financial/ emotional or other personal issues of this individual that you feel you are able to make a moral judgement on their circumstances? I'm sure that said individual "loves" the boost to their self esteem and social worth that being on the dole brings? If it means that they can now get a handle on complex mental health issues, better care for a disabled relative provide enough for their most basic needs without resorting to pay day lenders, is this really taking advantage?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm glad the benefits system is there - who knows when any of us might need it.

I would never make myself intentionally unemployed- being unemployed is soul crushing!

I don't know anything about people that make not having a job a full time job - or do I care.

I know that I have to pay taxes - and where that money goes isn't up to me

I cannot think of anything more awful than being flat broke without a job to go to and not being able to do and have the things you want.

At least when you have a job you can borrow the banks money to do the things you want

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There’s a job for everyone out there, if you really want work you will find it.

Benefits should be massively scaled back

So does that include child benefit and tax credits? "

Child benefit is universal though. You can work or not and still receive it. Every worker is entitled to tax credits too. If you're to take tax credits away then people will simply refuse to work. Stop dragging this down to pointlessness.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should of thought about that before having them? I would think hmmmm does my income cover the amount of kids I have? Nah feck it let’s have as many as we can tony Blair will cover it

Yeah, because £2,500 a year towards three kids will have them in the lap of luxury.

don’t have them if you cannot afford to pay for them out of your wages

What happens if you can afford them when you have them but ten years later your circumstances change?"
With working 10 years you should be able to support yourself with the money earned and saved,with 10 years work experience you should find a job quite quickly.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"There’s a job for everyone out there, if you really want work you will find it.

Benefits should be massively scaled back"

Do you mean unemployment benefit?

I don't think anyone would employ my 91 year old father and 84 year old mother with heart failure, three strokes and a broken back. They rely on pension credit and attendance allowance.

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

"There’s a job for everyone out there, if you really want work you will find it.

Benefits should be massively scaled back"

You are of course making the assumption that everyone is employable -there are other issues out there beyond just a "willingness" to work -disability, substance dependence, mental health issues being just a few.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Should of thought about that before having them? I would think hmmmm does my income cover the amount of kids I have? Nah feck it let’s have as many as we can tony Blair will cover it

Yeah, because £2,500 a year towards three kids will have them in the lap of luxury.

don’t have them if you cannot afford to pay for them out of your wages

What happens if you can afford them when you have them but ten years later your circumstances change? With working 10 years you should be able to support yourself with the money earned and saved,with 10 years work experience you should find a job quite quickly."

Should being the operative word.

It's not quite that straightforward in individual cases.

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"There’s a job for everyone out there, if you really want work you will find it.

Benefits should be massively scaled back

So does that include child benefit and tax credits?

People don’t refuse to work if tax credits are taken away what an absurd comment!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don’t really but this at all. You make it sound like the person / couple with kids are better off because of the child benefit they receive.

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that children do actually cost money to bring up.

Child benefit is currently £20.70 a week for the first child, and £13.70 for any over children.

So even if you have three kids, that’s just £2501.20 per year. Are you seriously telling me that for a family with three kids to raise, clothe and feed, that is so much money that they will be living some sort of Life of Riley? yeah but you have no rent Hardly any bills free nhs dentist vets hand outs for everything and not pay a penny towards them.

A couple with three kids, with one on incapacity benefit would receive a total of around £14k per year with 2x income support, 1x incapacity benefit, 3x child support.

They may or may not get all their rent or mortgage covered by housing benefit.

Even then, I’m not sure £14k is that much.

And if there are extreme cases, the suggestion that people on benefits are typically living some sort of cushty pampered life is probably nonsense.

And not all the stuff you mention is free, just subsidised.

Put it this way, assuming you’re not already, would you choose to be living on benefits?

Indeed.

When we get someone who comes along and says. "I gave up my job to go on the dole, because I thought it as the life of Riley and it is", then I'll believe it.

Until then, I'll be sceptical about the stories about people's mate's aunties cousin who knows someone who claims benefit whilst living in a ten bedroom mansion and driving a porsche. "
oh they do have a quick google of Afghan asylum seeker £1.2m house £30k benefit fraud true story tip of the iceberg

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

" With working 10 years you should be able to support yourself with the money earned and saved,with 10 years work experience you should find a job quite quickly."

'should' won't put food on the table

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Should of thought about that before having them? I would think hmmmm does my income cover the amount of kids I have? Nah feck it let’s have as many as we can tony Blair will cover it

Yeah, because £2,500 a year towards three kids will have them in the lap of luxury.

don’t have them if you cannot afford to pay for them out of your wages

Should being the operative word.

It's not quite that straightforward in individual cases."
as the comment above stated by a another user there is work out there you just have to find it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What kind of areas do the people here come from? The area I come from benefit fraud is huge. You say they don't live a cosy life but they have simple lifestyles. They'll hang around the road all day and probably spend a 10er. They don't go to fancy restaurants etc... It is a cosy life for the lifestyle they live. It's not the life most here would ever want but they never have to worry about many things. I wouldn't lie. I grew up and still live in this area. There's women claiming things like the loan parents when they're still with the father etc...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" With working 10 years you should be able to support yourself with the money earned and saved,with 10 years work experience you should find a job quite quickly.

'should' won't put food on the table "
10 years of savings “should”

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By *apeyeMan
over a year ago

worcester

Take it back down to basics, no work no money ! I’ve never claimed a penny, always found my own work so has every other person in my family.

Too many excuses,

NO WORK, NO PAY SIMPLES

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"Should of thought about that before having them? I would think hmmmm does my income cover the amount of kids I have? Nah feck it let’s have as many as we can tony Blair will cover it

Yeah, because £2,500 a year towards three kids will have them in the lap of luxury.

don’t have them if you cannot afford to pay for them out of your wages

Should being the operative word.

It's not quite that straightforward in individual cases. as the comment above stated by a another user there is work out there you just have to find it."

It’s taken my partner 6 months to find a new job because he’s self taught in IT etc a lot of places didn’t look at him because he didn’t have qualifications on paper and he’s also doing a p/t uni degree in IT so he can further himself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Take it back down to basics, no work no money ! I’ve never claimed a penny, always found my own work so has every other person in my family.

Too many excuses,

NO WORK, NO PAY SIMPLES"
Are you running for p.m?

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"We argue amongst ourselves about benefits, while bankers make millions in bonuses, I guess thats the real obscene thing.

I guess we should have tried harder at school.

On maybe tried harder to have wealthy parents... "

Sounds like blaming it on a third party to me.

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By *apeyeMan
over a year ago

worcester

Nope just a relation of Donald Trumps lol

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"What kind of areas do the people here come from? The area I come from benefit fraud is huge. You say they don't live a cosy life but they have simple lifestyles. They'll hang around the road all day and probably spend a 10er. They don't go to fancy restaurants etc... It is a cosy life for the lifestyle they live. It's not the life most here would ever want but they never have to worry about many things. I wouldn't lie. I grew up and still live in this area. There's women claiming things like the loan parents when they're still with the father etc... "

Have you reported these people. I am sure the authorities would love to hear from you so they can end this appalling abuse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There’s a job for everyone out there, if you really want work you will find it.

Benefits should be massively scaled back

So does that include child benefit and tax credits?

People don’t refuse to work if tax credits are taken away what an absurd comment! "

I'm telling they will. I'm a low income earner but have no kids. Im earning the same as people with a couple of kids. Take their credits and other benefits from workers and they're gone.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Do you think they actually want to keep the running costs of a 3 bed when it's become too big for them?

Where are they supposed to move to?

With a joint income of 45k id assume they have quite a choice?

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

I don’t really but this at all. You make it sound like the person / couple with kids are better off because of the child benefit they receive.

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that children do actually cost money to bring up.

Child benefit is currently £20.70 a week for the first child, and £13.70 for any over children.

So even if you have three kids, that’s just £2501.20 per year. Are you seriously telling me that for a family with three kids to raise, clothe and feed, that is so much money that they will be living some sort of Life of Riley? yeah but you have no rent Hardly any bills free nhs dentist vets hand outs for everything and not pay a penny towards them.

A couple with three kids, with one on incapacity benefit would receive a total of around £14k per year with 2x income support, 1x incapacity benefit, 3x child support.

They may or may not get all their rent or mortgage covered by housing benefit.

Even then, I’m not sure £14k is that much.

And if there are extreme cases, the suggestion that people on benefits are typically living some sort of cushty pampered life is probably nonsense.

And not all the stuff you mention is free, just subsidised.

Put it this way, assuming you’re not already, would you choose to be living on benefits?

Indeed.

When we get someone who comes along and says. "I gave up my job to go on the dole, because I thought it as the life of Riley and it is", then I'll believe it.

Until then, I'll be sceptical about the stories about people's mate's aunties cousin who knows someone who claims benefit whilst living in a ten bedroom mansion and driving a porsche. oh they do have a quick google of Afghan asylum seeker £1.2m house £30k benefit fraud true story tip of the iceberg

I did.

I see this was a family of eight people in London. You'd be hard put to find lower priced property in London that could accommodate eight people.

Also, as asylum seekers they would be obliged to live where the state put them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Do you think they actually want to keep the running costs of a 3 bed when it's become too big for them?

Where are they supposed to move to?

With a joint income of 45k id assume they have quite a choice?"

They will probably have bought their council house.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don’t really but this at all. You make it sound like the person / couple with kids are better off because of the child benefit they receive.

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that children do actually cost money to bring up.

Child benefit is currently £20.70 a week for the first child, and £13.70 for any over children.

So even if you have three kids, that’s just £2501.20 per year. Are you seriously telling me that for a family with three kids to raise, clothe and feed, that is so much money that they will be living some sort of Life of Riley? yeah but you have no rent Hardly any bills free nhs dentist vets hand outs for everything and not pay a penny towards them.

A couple with three kids, with one on incapacity benefit would receive a total of around £14k per year with 2x income support, 1x incapacity benefit, 3x child support.

They may or may not get all their rent or mortgage covered by housing benefit.

Even then, I’m not sure £14k is that much.

And if there are extreme cases, the suggestion that people on benefits are typically living some sort of cushty pampered life is probably nonsense.

And not all the stuff you mention is free, just subsidised.

Put it this way, assuming you’re not already, would you choose to be living on benefits?

Indeed.

When we get someone who comes along and says. "I gave up my job to go on the dole, because I thought it as the life of Riley and it is", then I'll believe it.

Until then, I'll be sceptical about the stories about people's mate's aunties cousin who knows someone who claims benefit whilst living in a ten bedroom mansion and driving a porsche. oh they do have a quick google of Afghan asylum seeker £1.2m house £30k benefit fraud true story tip of the iceberg

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don’t really but this at all. You make it sound like the person / couple with kids are better off because of the child benefit they receive.

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that children do actually cost money to bring up.

Child benefit is currently £20.70 a week for the first child, and £13.70 for any over children.

So even if you have three kids, that’s just £2501.20 per year. Are you seriously telling me that for a family with three kids to raise, clothe and feed, that is so much money that they will be living some sort of Life of Riley? yeah but you have no rent Hardly any bills free nhs dentist vets hand outs for everything and not pay a penny towards them.

A couple with three kids, with one on incapacity benefit would receive a total of around £14k per year with 2x income support, 1x incapacity benefit, 3x child support.

They may or may not get all their rent or mortgage covered by housing benefit.

Even then, I’m not sure £14k is that much.

And if there are extreme cases, the suggestion that people on benefits are typically living some sort of cushty pampered life is probably nonsense.

And not all the stuff you mention is free, just subsidised.

Put it this way, assuming you’re not already, would you choose to be living on benefits?

Indeed.

When we get someone who comes along and says. "I gave up my job to go on the dole, because I thought it as the life of Riley and it is", then I'll believe it.

Until then, I'll be sceptical about the stories about people's mate's aunties cousin who knows someone who claims benefit whilst living in a ten bedroom mansion and driving a porsche. oh they do have a quick google of Afghan asylum seeker £1.2m house £30k benefit fraud true story tip of the iceberg

I did.

I see this was a family of eight people in London. You'd be hard put to find lower priced property in London that could accommodate eight people.

Also, as asylum seekers they would be obliged to live where the state put them. "

The thing about the 1.2 mill houses is they are only worth 1.2 mill because of the area they are in. A similar house in my area of London will be half, or less, of that asking price.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

For all those people who say they know people committing benefit fraud, I hope you have reported them. If not, you have no cause to complain.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There’s a job for everyone out there, if you really want work you will find it.

Benefits should be massively scaled back"

I've never been out of work since leaving school, and have a long career in my current profession.

But to suggest that is simply not true. There are so many independent and unique cases, that a one size fits all system doesn't cater for.

Cut every thing, then what? Witness third world poverty on our streets, crime increase as people do whatever it takes? Watch people die? That's nice isn't it.

The system is definitely not perfect but until there's a statically proven alternative I see no better option?

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

"For all those people who say they know people committing benefit fraud, I hope you have reported them. If not, you have no cause to complain. "

Do you know the reporting process?

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By *oncupiscentTonyMan
over a year ago

Kent

"The thing about the 1.2 mill houses is they are only worth 1.2 mill because of the area they are in. A similar house in my area of London will be half, or less, of that asking price."

Is that a humblebrag or are you a benefit fraudster?

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

I don’t really but this at all. You make it sound like the person / couple with kids are better off because of the child benefit they receive.

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that children do actually cost money to bring up.

Child benefit is currently £20.70 a week for the first child, and £13.70 for any over children.

So even if you have three kids, that’s just £2501.20 per year. Are you seriously telling me that for a family with three kids to raise, clothe and feed, that is so much money that they will be living some sort of Life of Riley? yeah but you have no rent Hardly any bills free nhs dentist vets hand outs for everything and not pay a penny towards them.

A couple with three kids, with one on incapacity benefit would receive a total of around £14k per year with 2x income support, 1x incapacity benefit, 3x child support.

They may or may not get all their rent or mortgage covered by housing benefit.

Even then, I’m not sure £14k is that much.

And if there are extreme cases, the suggestion that people on benefits are typically living some sort of cushty pampered life is probably nonsense.

And not all the stuff you mention is free, just subsidised.

Put it this way, assuming you’re not already, would you choose to be living on benefits?

Indeed.

When we get someone who comes along and says. "I gave up my job to go on the dole, because I thought it as the life of Riley and it is", then I'll believe it.

Until then, I'll be sceptical about the stories about people's mate's aunties cousin who knows someone who claims benefit whilst living in a ten bedroom mansion and driving a porsche. oh they do have a quick google of Afghan asylum seeker £1.2m house £30k benefit fraud true story tip of the iceberg

I did.

I see this was a family of eight people in London. You'd be hard put to find lower priced property in London that could accommodate eight people.

Also, as asylum seekers they would be obliged to live where the state put them.

The thing about the 1.2 mill houses is they are only worth 1.2 mill because of the area they are in. A similar house in my area of London will be half, or less, of that asking price. "

As I say, as asylum seekers they would have to go where the government put them and the government had a policy of dispersing asylum seekers.

Hence in this instance, it's rather unfair to blame them for living in a house of that value.

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By *ottie_84Woman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"There’s a job for everyone out there, if you really want work you will find it.

Benefits should be massively scaled back

I've never been out of work since leaving school, and have a long career in my current profession.

But to suggest that is simply not true. There are so many independent and unique cases, that a one size fits all system doesn't cater for.

Cut every thing, then what? Witness third world poverty on our streets, crime increase as people do whatever it takes? Watch people die? That's nice isn't it.

The system is definitely not perfect but until there's a statically proven alternative I see no better option?

This man speaks sense!!! But unfortunately a lot of people won’t take it on board

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im quite lucky. I have never claimed benefits as i have always been employed. I pay my taxes and yes some goes to the benefits system. Im happy with that. Yes a small percentage abuse the system but it is only a very small percentage. Im happy to pay my tax so the disabled , their carers who actually save the country money can survive. Life can turn around quickly. One day any of us might need a helping hand. Do judge everybody by watching channel 5.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I’ve decided to end the thread. Thank you for reading.

On a personal note, thank you for all the requests to see my erect penis. I have no idea where in this thread (apart from the word ‘benefits’) that anyone thinks it’s:

A) appropriate and

B) it’s gonna happen.

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By *lceeWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

I’ve been on benefits before when I desperately needed them and I worked on the housing benefits line for my local council.

One thing I was shown proof of in training that stuck with me is that if they stopped everyone from playing the system, then there would be a modest decrease in the benefits spend. However, if everyone who was entitled to benefits actually claimed them, we would literally not be able to afford the bill.

That, right there, is food for thought. It’s not a nice life. If you’re single and 35 or under you have to live in a shared house (as you’re not entitled to any more housing allowance than that), if you have children then the babies are expected to sleep in your room and if your children are the same gender, they have to share a bedroom up to the age of 13. You get £60 per week to live off, including bills (which also includes travel to the job interviews that you have to go to to stay on them).

Sanctions are indiscriminately applied as the training isn’t there to foster common sense, just a rigid, by the book attitude (one lady I spoke to had been living off bread with sugar for four weeks because she missed an appointment due to her mother’s funeral).

When I was nineteen, my mother had a brain tumour so I came home from university. When I went into the local job centre to ask about help, I was told that ‘people like me weren’t eligible for it’, without even looking at my documentation.

That was bullshit as I later found out (my mother was more than eligible for ESA as she couldn’t work and I worked in a coffee shop, trying to keep three of us alive). I ended up working three jobs and trying to care for her and keep my younger brother in school. These things need to change.

Yes, you can play the system but it’s difficult. It fosters a lack of hope and motivation. Taking it away will make it even harder.

I think it all needs to start with education. Teach kids how to budget, cook cheaply and navigate bureaucracy and there will be less of the horror stories and maybe more people who will find ways to make a better life, rather than hiding from bailiffs and struggling to keep their heads above water.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What this post shows is, there are some disillusioned, bitter, ignorant misinformed people out there..

God forbid in your life time you never need to use the benefits system..

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By *ky19Man
over a year ago

Plymouth

Good for you dude. Yes genuine families and vulnerable people ought to do the same.

The Henry Kissinger approach that all people should be contributing to the corporatocracy and those that aren't, for whatever reason, should... die basically.

Those night time workers (12hr+ shifts), sleeping in during the day - how lazy!

This thinking that everyone should only work work work always having to do something 'productive', with any leisure time (which is healthy and good for you) making you of no value as a person, was propagated by corporations and people in high places.

A study of the evidence suggests quite clearly that our loving PM and co really are currently trying to kill off the elderly and vulnerable. Might post more on that later.

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