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"Bored by doctrinaire bollucks  "Bring something original to the table so. It's easy to be a snide critic. | |||
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"We can move past the earlier assertions of violence = masculinity...we've talked it out and seen the intricacies of the men. What's the best point to continue on?? minus the bickering that was crept in - we were going well.... Do we want to talk about how boys are raised and if this creates this exaggerated hard man don't cry bottle it up fight for honour flawed version of masculinity? I don't necessarily think it does. " Well it's not my area of expertise but i believe that a lot of a child's social skills will or will not develop by the age of 4. So i wonder if there's something in the background of most incels that makes them socially awkward. | |||
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"Violence in society fell predominantly because we removed lead from fuel. There's excellent research about lead and the connection to violence, the big drop came in the late 80s as unleaded came in. " Was there a lot of lead in the air 60,000 years ago when the murder rate was ~10%? | |||
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"Violence in society fell predominantly because we removed lead from fuel. There's excellent research about lead and the connection to violence, the big drop came in the late 80s as unleaded came in. Was there a lot of lead in the air 60,000 years ago when the murder rate was ~10%? " . Again your own context matters, societal conditions have improved, standards of living have improved, we should have seen a drop from ww2 but we didn't, we saw increases, we saw the drop from late 80s onwards, that was from removing lead from people's brains and nervous system, well backed up by scientific evidence in rats | |||
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" Well it's not my area of expertise but i believe that a lot of a child's social skills will or will not develop by the age of 4. So i wonder if there's something in the background of most incels that makes them socially awkward. " A child's brain is 1/4 formed at birth and 3/4 formed by the age of 4. By the age of 7, the child is set for life ("show me the boy . . " etc). Those first few years of life, and what the child experiences, are crucial in shaping the life prospects of the adult. A child deprived of love and affection, or exposed to cruelty, will form different behaviour patterns in later life to one who experiences warmth and wellbeing. An absence of empathy is a prerequisite for mass murderer, be it terrorist or serial. | |||
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"Sara seeing as you brought it up. What does the phrase toxic masculinity mean to you? Are we confusing masculinity with just toxic people who happen to be male?" I honestly wish I hadn't now lol - it seems to have sent the thread in a completely different direction. It was a mistake on my part and ought probably to be a separate discussion to the issues raised by the OP. | |||
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" Well it's not my area of expertise but i believe that a lot of a child's social skills will or will not develop by the age of 4. So i wonder if there's something in the background of most incels that makes them socially awkward. A child's brain is 1/4 formed at birth and 3/4 formed by the age of 4. By the age of 7, the child is set for life ("show me the boy . . " etc). Those first few years of life, and what the child experiences, are crucial in shaping the life prospects of the adult. A child deprived of love and affection, or exposed to cruelty, will form different behaviour patterns in later life to one who experiences warmth and wellbeing. An absence of empathy is a prerequisite for mass murderer, be it terrorist or serial." Thanks, but does it even need to be that extreme for incels? If they were just badly socialised before the age of 4, therefore awkward around other kids and not making friends easily. Could that be enough to set them on a path of bitterness and anger? | |||
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"Yeah but there are socially awkward women too. Childhood psychology doesn't cut it fully. " But there aren't female incels. I realise there are some toxic women who can't get boyfriends, but i think it's stretching the definition to call them incels. | |||
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"Yeah but there are socially awkward women too. Childhood psychology doesn't cut it fully. But there aren't female incels. I realise there are some toxic women who can't get boyfriends, but i think it's stretching the definition to call them incels. " A woman started Incel | |||
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"Yeah but there are socially awkward women too. Childhood psychology doesn't cut it fully. But there aren't female incels. I realise there are some toxic women who can't get boyfriends, but i think it's stretching the definition to call them incels. A woman started Incel " Start it how? Did she name it? | |||
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" Well it's not my area of expertise but i believe that a lot of a child's social skills will or will not develop by the age of 4. So i wonder if there's something in the background of most incels that makes them socially awkward. A child's brain is 1/4 formed at birth and 3/4 formed by the age of 4. By the age of 7, the child is set for life ("show me the boy . . " etc). Those first few years of life, and what the child experiences, are crucial in shaping the life prospects of the adult. A child deprived of love and affection, or exposed to cruelty, will form different behaviour patterns in later life to one who experiences warmth and wellbeing. An absence of empathy is a prerequisite for mass murderer, be it terrorist or serial. Thanks, but does it even need to be that extreme for incels? If they were just badly socialised before the age of 4, therefore awkward around other kids and not making friends easily. Could that be enough to set them on a path of bitterness and anger? " Perhaps, if you add hormones to that, and seeing (and hearing)other men do so well with women a rage builds and clouds their rational thinking? | |||
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"Yeah but there are socially awkward women too. Childhood psychology doesn't cut it fully. But there aren't female incels. I realise there are some toxic women who can't get boyfriends, but i think it's stretching the definition to call them incels. A woman started Incel Start it how? Did she name it?" Yes. That's how she defined herself. But men took it over and twisted it to make it what it is today | |||
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"Yeah but there are socially awkward women too. Childhood psychology doesn't cut it fully. But there aren't female incels. I realise there are some toxic women who can't get boyfriends, but i think it's stretching the definition to call them incels. A woman started Incel " Ha ha true, but i believe she couldn't find a boyfriend as opposed to couldn't get laid. | |||
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" Well it's not my area of expertise but i believe that a lot of a child's social skills will or will not develop by the age of 4. So i wonder if there's something in the background of most incels that makes them socially awkward. A child's brain is 1/4 formed at birth and 3/4 formed by the age of 4. By the age of 7, the child is set for life ("show me the boy . . " etc). Those first few years of life, and what the child experiences, are crucial in shaping the life prospects of the adult. A child deprived of love and affection, or exposed to cruelty, will form different behaviour patterns in later life to one who experiences warmth and wellbeing. An absence of empathy is a prerequisite for mass murderer, be it terrorist or serial. Thanks, but does it even need to be that extreme for incels? If they were just badly socialised before the age of 4, therefore awkward around other kids and not making friends easily. Could that be enough to set them on a path of bitterness and anger? Perhaps, if you add hormones to that, and seeing (and hearing)other men do so well with women a rage builds and clouds their rational thinking?" Yes, it's important to remember that the current incel movement hates "Chad and Stacy". I believe Chad is the guy that easily gets Stacy because he is an alpha male. | |||
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"Yeah but there are socially awkward women too. Childhood psychology doesn't cut it fully. But there aren't female incels. I realise there are some toxic women who can't get boyfriends, but i think it's stretching the definition to call them incels. A woman started Incel Ha ha true, but i believe she couldn't find a boyfriend as opposed to couldn't get laid. " I didn't say it wasn't. Men decided it described them and twisted the original definition to suit them and their situation. | |||
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"Yeah but there are socially awkward women too. Childhood psychology doesn't cut it fully. But there aren't female incels. I realise there are some toxic women who can't get boyfriends, but i think it's stretching the definition to call them incels. A woman started Incel Ha ha true, but i believe she couldn't find a boyfriend as opposed to couldn't get laid. I didn't say it wasn't. Men decided it described them and twisted the original definition to suit them and their situation." That's interesting. | |||
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" Well it's not my area of expertise but i believe that a lot of a child's social skills will or will not develop by the age of 4. So i wonder if there's something in the background of most incels that makes them socially awkward. A child's brain is 1/4 formed at birth and 3/4 formed by the age of 4. By the age of 7, the child is set for life ("show me the boy . . " etc). Those first few years of life, and what the child experiences, are crucial in shaping the life prospects of the adult. A child deprived of love and affection, or exposed to cruelty, will form different behaviour patterns in later life to one who experiences warmth and wellbeing. An absence of empathy is a prerequisite for mass murderer, be it terrorist or serial. Thanks, but does it even need to be that extreme for incels? If they were just badly socialised before the age of 4, therefore awkward around other kids and not making friends easily. Could that be enough to set them on a path of bitterness and anger? Perhaps, if you add hormones to that, and seeing (and hearing)other men do so well with women a rage builds and clouds their rational thinking? Yes, it's important to remember that the current incel movement hates "Chad and Stacy". I believe Chad is the guy that easily gets Stacy because he is an alpha male. " Is this an American thing? | |||
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" Well it's not my area of expertise but i believe that a lot of a child's social skills will or will not develop by the age of 4. So i wonder if there's something in the background of most incels that makes them socially awkward. A child's brain is 1/4 formed at birth and 3/4 formed by the age of 4. By the age of 7, the child is set for life ("show me the boy . . " etc). Those first few years of life, and what the child experiences, are crucial in shaping the life prospects of the adult. A child deprived of love and affection, or exposed to cruelty, will form different behaviour patterns in later life to one who experiences warmth and wellbeing. An absence of empathy is a prerequisite for mass murderer, be it terrorist or serial. Thanks, but does it even need to be that extreme for incels? If they were just badly socialised before the age of 4, therefore awkward around other kids and not making friends easily. Could that be enough to set them on a path of bitterness and anger? Perhaps, if you add hormones to that, and seeing (and hearing)other men do so well with women a rage builds and clouds their rational thinking? Yes, it's important to remember that the current incel movement hates "Chad and Stacy". I believe Chad is the guy that easily gets Stacy because he is an alpha male. Is this an American thing?" The woman who coined the term was Canadian. I think you see a lot of hardcore misogny and nihilism come out of America because of their free speech laws. But i expect there are proportionally as many incels in other countries. Some academics have hypothesised that incels are over-represented in terrorist groups. | |||
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" Well it's not my area of expertise but i believe that a lot of a child's social skills will or will not develop by the age of 4. So i wonder if there's something in the background of most incels that makes them socially awkward. A child's brain is 1/4 formed at birth and 3/4 formed by the age of 4. By the age of 7, the child is set for life ("show me the boy . . " etc). Those first few years of life, and what the child experiences, are crucial in shaping the life prospects of the adult. A child deprived of love and affection, or exposed to cruelty, will form different behaviour patterns in later life to one who experiences warmth and wellbeing. An absence of empathy is a prerequisite for mass murderer, be it terrorist or serial. Thanks, but does it even need to be that extreme for incels? If they were just badly socialised before the age of 4, therefore awkward around other kids and not making friends easily. Could that be enough to set them on a path of bitterness and anger? Perhaps, if you add hormones to that, and seeing (and hearing)other men do so well with women a rage builds and clouds their rational thinking? Yes, it's important to remember that the current incel movement hates "Chad and Stacy". I believe Chad is the guy that easily gets Stacy because he is an alpha male. Is this an American thing? The woman who coined the term was Canadian. I think you see a lot of hardcore misogny and nihilism come out of America because of their free speech laws. But i expect there are proportionally as many incels in other countries. Some academics have hypothesised that incels are over-represented in terrorist groups. " So, is the recognised term for women haters now incel, or just the ones who attack? | |||
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" Well it's not my area of expertise but i believe that a lot of a child's social skills will or will not develop by the age of 4. So i wonder if there's something in the background of most incels that makes them socially awkward. A child's brain is 1/4 formed at birth and 3/4 formed by the age of 4. By the age of 7, the child is set for life ("show me the boy . . " etc). Those first few years of life, and what the child experiences, are crucial in shaping the life prospects of the adult. A child deprived of love and affection, or exposed to cruelty, will form different behaviour patterns in later life to one who experiences warmth and wellbeing. An absence of empathy is a prerequisite for mass murderer, be it terrorist or serial. Thanks, but does it even need to be that extreme for incels? If they were just badly socialised before the age of 4, therefore awkward around other kids and not making friends easily. Could that be enough to set them on a path of bitterness and anger? Perhaps, if you add hormones to that, and seeing (and hearing)other men do so well with women a rage builds and clouds their rational thinking? Yes, it's important to remember that the current incel movement hates "Chad and Stacy". I believe Chad is the guy that easily gets Stacy because he is an alpha male. Is this an American thing? The woman who coined the term was Canadian. I think you see a lot of hardcore misogny and nihilism come out of America because of their free speech laws. But i expect there are proportionally as many incels in other countries. Some academics have hypothesised that incels are over-represented in terrorist groups. So, is the recognised term for women haters now incel, or just the ones who attack? " I believe it's the recognised term of a virtual community who all hate women, some of whom go on to attack the general public. | |||
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"I really liked the bizarre "lead" direction the thread was taking earlier. Can we have some more lunacy please?" Blame the pencils | |||
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"I wonder what early intervention could look like? It seems easy enough to identify people 'at risk' but what could you do? Send them vouchers to use with a prostitute or have the police go around, sit them down and say "listen son, you need to realise that you're a bit of a cunt" and then an NHS psychologist can work with them? " I understand there have been instances of incels attacking prostitutes. I'd rather see them locked up as soon as they commit a crime. | |||
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"I wonder what early intervention could look like? It seems easy enough to identify people 'at risk' but what could you do? Send them vouchers to use with a prostitute or have the police go around, sit them down and say "listen son, you need to realise that you're a bit of a cunt" and then an NHS psychologist can work with them? I understand there have been instances of incels attacking prostitutes. I'd rather see them locked up as soon as they commit a crime." All men
To be sure? | |||
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"I wonder what early intervention could look like? It seems easy enough to identify people 'at risk' but what could you do? Send them vouchers to use with a prostitute or have the police go around, sit them down and say "listen son, you need to realise that you're a bit of a cunt" and then an NHS psychologist can work with them? I understand there have been instances of incels attacking prostitutes. I'd rather see them locked up as soon as they commit a crime." Ok let's take prostitution vouchers off the table then. Wouldn't you rather they were stopped before they committed a crime? | |||
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"#killallmen " Come on and play nice. I'm Chad enough that they'll be coming after me as well so i want this problem solved. | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture?" Nah we're right at the forefront of this. I think the fundamental issue is that i don't see how we can support them. You know how the first step to treating an alcoholic is to get them to admit they have a problem. Incels are incels because they won't admit they have the problem. It's all those fucking gold digging sluts who don't fuck anyone who doesn't have a million in the bank, a 10" cock and a ripped six pack. Although we might be able to fob them off with a highly realistic love doll? | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture?" Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.  | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night. "There are many different flavours of bad upbringing. The most likely case in today's society is that boys will grow up poorly because of having no stable male role model at all, that's far more likely than growing up with a hyper misogynist and or violent one. | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night. "Did they? We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall. | |||
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"I was just reading a bit on quora from a sexless but non incel guy talking about exactly that...they feel bullied by women. You can see where that sentiment may come from here on any cock size thread where a small few women may wield a highly insensitive tone. Maybe fab forums are the ultimate research lab "What's the jist of his argument? Women want unrealistic standards or I have nothing to offer them? | |||
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"Continuing the discussion. Where were we?" Who knows is this about chemicals maybe  | |||
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"As my old grandad used to say empty vessels rattle most..." As mine used to say, some people are a pain in the hole. Try contributing. | |||
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"It's a shame we can't share screenshots from 4chan here" You can on a private message. | |||
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"There's a lot of anger behind that text. It has got me thinking, are there really a significant number (let's go more than 3%) of men who just cannot get a girlfriend, even if they sorted their life out? I mean I know some people have rare diseases and stuff that would make it really hard, but he says there are a lot more of them than we think. " They don't all turn into incels do they? | |||
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"There's a lot of anger behind that text. It has got me thinking, are there really a significant number (let's go more than 3%) of men who just cannot get a girlfriend, even if they sorted their life out? I mean I know some people have rare diseases and stuff that would make it really hard, but he says there are a lot more of them than we think. " the other 97% are here | |||
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"Re: the quote Wow. So it's "toxic feminist culture" rather than toxic masculinity. " Is that because the women won't have sex with the men? | |||
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"There's a lot of anger behind that text. It has got me thinking, are there really a significant number (let's go more than 3%) of men who just cannot get a girlfriend, even if they sorted their life out? I mean I know some people have rare diseases and stuff that would make it really hard, but he says there are a lot more of them than we think. They don't all turn into incels do they? " Who knows, I'm learning like you are. I'm quite taken back by that Quora quote | |||
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"Re: the quote Wow. So it's "toxic feminist culture" rather than toxic masculinity. Is that because the women won't have sex with the men?" No, you need to read the whole context I'm afraid. I haven't digested it enough to make a summary. | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
"You might have been I wasnt | |||
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"There's a lot of anger behind that text. It has got me thinking, are there really a significant number (let's go more than 3%) of men who just cannot get a girlfriend, even if they sorted their life out? I mean I know some people have rare diseases and stuff that would make it really hard, but he says there are a lot more of them than we think. " The bit for me I didn't quite believe is that you can't improve yourself enough to get a girlfriend. Kinda true in some cases sure, but awfully nihilistic nonetheless. There's someone for everyone potentially if what these guys call hypergamy can be reigned in a bit. You would imagine that modern technology could help these guys find partners with similar quirks. There's no harm in being awkward or nerdy if you meet someone similar to gel with. | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
You might have been I wasnt"Were talking about standards of exaggerated masculinity at a societal level, I don't think you are being honest here. | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
You might have been I wasnt
Were talking about standards of exaggerated masculinity at a societal level, I don't think you are being honest here. "Yes and I was making the point about how I could see why 'toxic masculinity' in the form of violence towards young men would enable feelings of anger and aggression. Little Johnny living the average life wouldnt be under those same influences so what is the point mentioning the average person. Which I didnt and you did? | |||
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"There's a lot of anger behind that text. It has got me thinking, are there really a significant number (let's go more than 3%) of men who just cannot get a girlfriend, even if they sorted their life out? I mean I know some people have rare diseases and stuff that would make it really hard, but he says there are a lot more of them than we think. The bit for me I didn't quite believe is that you can't improve yourself enough to get a girlfriend. Kinda true in some cases sure, but awfully nihilistic nonetheless. There's someone for everyone potentially if what these guys call hypergamy can be reigned in a bit. You would imagine that modern technology could help these guys find partners with similar quirks. There's no harm in being awkward or nerdy if you meet someone similar to gel with. " But but but, I thought of some ways that guy could be right. I'm not saying he is, but it would be possible if: 1. A-Sexuality is more common in women than men. (I.e. there just aren't enough women to go around) 2. There is hard research that shows women are less aware of their dating desirability than men. So logically we think the 2/10 guys should pair up with the 2/10 women (assume a normal distribution) but the 2/10 women think they should be with a 4/10 guy and won't settle. Anecdotally i know 4 incel women (involuntary single -they could get fucked) and 0 incel guys. | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
You might have been I wasnt
Were talking about standards of exaggerated masculinity at a societal level, I don't think you are being honest here.
Yes and I was making the point about how I could see why 'toxic masculinity' in the form of violence towards young men would enable feelings of anger and aggression. Little Johnny living the average life wouldnt be under those same influences so what is the point mentioning the average person. Which I didnt and you did? "But we just heard from an incel saying it's toxic feminism rather than toxic masculinity. | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
You might have been I wasnt
Were talking about standards of exaggerated masculinity at a societal level, I don't think you are being honest here.
Yes and I was making the point about how I could see why 'toxic masculinity' in the form of violence towards young men would enable feelings of anger and aggression. Little Johnny living the average life wouldnt be under those same influences so what is the point mentioning the average person. Which I didnt and you did? "And yet why do we blame "society" for imposing such expectations? I believe someone mentioned training the tenderness out of boys. | |||
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" 2. There is hard research that shows women are less aware of their dating desirability than men. So logically we think the 2/10 guys should pair up with the 2/10 women (assume a normal distribution) but the 2/10 women think they should be with a 4/10 guy and won't settle. " That's what I meant by hypergamy. We see it in action here. | |||
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" 2. There is hard research that shows women are less aware of their dating desirability than men. So logically we think the 2/10 guys should pair up with the 2/10 women (assume a normal distribution) but the 2/10 women think they should be with a 4/10 guy and won't settle. That's what I meant by hypergamy. We see it in action here. " Also it's not all about looks. Are we really that superficial as a society? | |||
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" 2. There is hard research that shows women are less aware of their dating desirability than men. So logically we think the 2/10 guys should pair up with the 2/10 women (assume a normal distribution) but the 2/10 women think they should be with a 4/10 guy and won't settle. That's what I meant by hypergamy. We see it in action here. " Sort of. Women will date uglier guys as long as they have other things going for them. I get that not every guy can be good looking, but they can earn money. | |||
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" 2. There is hard research that shows women are less aware of their dating desirability than men. So logically we think the 2/10 guys should pair up with the 2/10 women (assume a normal distribution) but the 2/10 women think they should be with a 4/10 guy and won't settle. That's what I meant by hypergamy. We see it in action here. Sort of. Women will date uglier guys as long as they have other things going for them. I get that not every guy can be good looking, but they can earn money. " I suppose a deep unhealthy issue with the opposite sex would be a deal-breaker in any case. Chicken and egg? | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
You might have been I wasnt
Were talking about standards of exaggerated masculinity at a societal level, I don't think you are being honest here.
Yes and I was making the point about how I could see why 'toxic masculinity' in the form of violence towards young men would enable feelings of anger and aggression. Little Johnny living the average life wouldnt be under those same influences so what is the point mentioning the average person. Which I didnt and you did?
And yet why do we blame "society" for imposing such expectations? I believe someone mentioned training the tenderness out of boys. "Society is made up of individuals with individual lives and choices. Not a collection of random averages, many of which seem to have simply been invented for the purpose of spurious argument by certain contributions to this thread. E.g. I know let's say 3% of etc. What's that I can smell almost as strongly as last night... 87.694% of stats are made up on the spot to fit the argument. But that's the point the argument collapses in its own detritus. Perhaps if society ie we the people invested as much time in the future of our children rather than pointless semantics the world may be a better place... Alas much of that is the responsibility of parents and others, some of whom appear to prefer dogma to demonstrating to others how to make the world a better place. | |||
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" 2. There is hard research that shows women are less aware of their dating desirability than men. So logically we think the 2/10 guys should pair up with the 2/10 women (assume a normal distribution) but the 2/10 women think they should be with a 4/10 guy and won't settle. That's what I meant by hypergamy. We see it in action here. Sort of. Women will date uglier guys as long as they have other things going for them. I get that not every guy can be good looking, but they can earn money. I suppose a deep unhealthy issue with the opposite sex would be a deal-breaker in any case. Chicken and egg? " Yeah that's why i don't really believe all of what he's saying. But I'm not ready to dismiss all his points either. I see this guy who is covered in large warts and he cleans bins out, so i get that he got a short straw in life and is going to struggle. But my gut reaction is that most incels are probably misogynistic slobs. | |||
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"And earning money is less arguably less influential in a non patriarchal culture like we have. " So one solution would be to cut welfare for single mums so they become desperate enough to use the incels are sugar daddies. | |||
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"Violence in society fell predominantly because we removed lead from fuel. There's excellent research about lead and the connection to violence, the big drop came in the late 80s as unleaded came in. Was there a lot of lead in the air 60,000 years ago when the murder rate was ~10%? " Who the bloody hell collected/compiled statistics 60000 years ago? We’re talking around the time early humans migrated from Africa. What’s the relevance? | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
You might have been I wasnt
Were talking about standards of exaggerated masculinity at a societal level, I don't think you are being honest here.
Yes and I was making the point about how I could see why 'toxic masculinity' in the form of violence towards young men would enable feelings of anger and aggression. Little Johnny living the average life wouldnt be under those same influences so what is the point mentioning the average person. Which I didnt and you did?
And yet why do we blame "society" for imposing such expectations? I believe someone mentioned training the tenderness out of boys. "Good job I am feeling Zen tonight. Who is blaming society for what, or was that a gap filler? I took a soundbite off the internet to try to describe the meaning of the issue under question. No one is naive enough to assume 'training' means in the literal sense. Learning happens under many forms. | |||
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"Violence in society fell predominantly because we removed lead from fuel. There's excellent research about lead and the connection to violence, the big drop came in the late 80s as unleaded came in. Was there a lot of lead in the air 60,000 years ago when the murder rate was ~10%? Who the bloody hell collected/compiled statistics 60000 years ago? We’re talking around the time early humans migrated from Africa. What’s the relevance? " It's from archaeology rather than surveys. It's about whether society is getting more or less violent and how long that trend is. | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
You might have been I wasnt
Were talking about standards of exaggerated masculinity at a societal level, I don't think you are being honest here.
Yes and I was making the point about how I could see why 'toxic masculinity' in the form of violence towards young men would enable feelings of anger and aggression. Little Johnny living the average life wouldnt be under those same influences so what is the point mentioning the average person. Which I didnt and you did?
And yet why do we blame "society" for imposing such expectations? I believe someone mentioned training the tenderness out of boys.
Good job I am feeling Zen tonight.
Who is blaming society for what, or was that a gap filler?
I took a soundbite off the internet to try to describe the meaning of the issue under question. No one is naive enough to assume 'training' means in the literal sense. Learning happens under many forms.
"Honestly, I'm really confused what you believe now. Yesterday I thought you were saying that a lot of boys (call it more than 30%) were being taught to hit first, ask questions later. Is that what you believe or not? | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
You might have been I wasnt
Were talking about standards of exaggerated masculinity at a societal level, I don't think you are being honest here.
Yes and I was making the point about how I could see why 'toxic masculinity' in the form of violence towards young men would enable feelings of anger and aggression. Little Johnny living the average life wouldnt be under those same influences so what is the point mentioning the average person. Which I didnt and you did?
But we just heard from an incel saying it's toxic feminism rather than toxic masculinity. "Haha well yes Ive no doubt its all the womens fault now then. | |||
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" Society is made up of individuals with individual lives and choices. Not a collection of random averages, many of which seem to have simply been invented for the purpose of spurious argument by certain contributions to this thread. " Exactly! And to to beat my own drum is why we should argue against silly notions such as toxic masculinity which fail to recognise the individual and his/her personal circumstances, background and responsibility. | |||
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" Society is made up of individuals with individual lives and choices. Not a collection of random averages, many of which seem to have simply been invented for the purpose of spurious argument by certain contributions to this thread. Exactly! And to to beat my own drum is why we should argue against silly notions such as toxic masculinity which fail to recognise the individual and his/her personal circumstances, background and responsibility. " Averages are made up of individuals too | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
You might have been I wasnt
Were talking about standards of exaggerated masculinity at a societal level, I don't think you are being honest here.
Yes and I was making the point about how I could see why 'toxic masculinity' in the form of violence towards young men would enable feelings of anger and aggression. Little Johnny living the average life wouldnt be under those same influences so what is the point mentioning the average person. Which I didnt and you did?
And yet why do we blame "society" for imposing such expectations? I believe someone mentioned training the tenderness out of boys.
Good job I am feeling Zen tonight.
Who is blaming society for what, or was that a gap filler?
I took a soundbite off the internet to try to describe the meaning of the issue under question. No one is naive enough to assume 'training' means in the literal sense. Learning happens under many forms.
Honestly, I'm really confused what you believe now. Yesterday I thought you were saying that a lot of boys (call it more than 30%) were being taught to hit first, ask questions later. Is that what you believe or not? "And I believe you have a real hard on for %'s And is what I am saying now much different to that? | |||
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" Society is made up of individuals with individual lives and choices. Not a collection of random averages, many of which seem to have simply been invented for the purpose of spurious argument by certain contributions to this thread. Exactly! And to to beat my own drum is why we should argue against silly notions such as toxic masculinity which fail to recognise the individual and his/her personal circumstances, background and responsibility. Averages are made up of individuals too "Society is the average but behaviour must be taken case by case. | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
You might have been I wasnt
Were talking about standards of exaggerated masculinity at a societal level, I don't think you are being honest here.
Yes and I was making the point about how I could see why 'toxic masculinity' in the form of violence towards young men would enable feelings of anger and aggression. Little Johnny living the average life wouldnt be under those same influences so what is the point mentioning the average person. Which I didnt and you did?
And yet why do we blame "society" for imposing such expectations? I believe someone mentioned training the tenderness out of boys.
Good job I am feeling Zen tonight.
Who is blaming society for what, or was that a gap filler?
I took a soundbite off the internet to try to describe the meaning of the issue under question. No one is naive enough to assume 'training' means in the literal sense. Learning happens under many forms.
Honestly, I'm really confused what you believe now. Yesterday I thought you were saying that a lot of boys (call it more than 30%) were being taught to hit first, ask questions later. Is that what you believe or not?
And I believe you have a real hard on for %'s
And is what I am saying now much different to that?"Yes i like facts a lot, I believe they are the best way to understand the world as opposed to anecdotes. Honestly, I don't want to strawman your views and I'm wondering if we were just talking past each other yesterday. Could you just clarify how big you think the problem is? | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
You might have been I wasnt
Were talking about standards of exaggerated masculinity at a societal level, I don't think you are being honest here.
Yes and I was making the point about how I could see why 'toxic masculinity' in the form of violence towards young men would enable feelings of anger and aggression. Little Johnny living the average life wouldnt be under those same influences so what is the point mentioning the average person. Which I didnt and you did?
And yet why do we blame "society" for imposing such expectations? I believe someone mentioned training the tenderness out of boys.
Good job I am feeling Zen tonight.
Who is blaming society for what, or was that a gap filler?
I took a soundbite off the internet to try to describe the meaning of the issue under question. No one is naive enough to assume 'training' means in the literal sense. Learning happens under many forms.
Honestly, I'm really confused what you believe now. Yesterday I thought you were saying that a lot of boys (call it more than 30%) were being taught to hit first, ask questions later. Is that what you believe or not?
And I believe you have a real hard on for %'s
And is what I am saying now much different to that?
Yes i like facts a lot, I believe they are the best way to understand the world as opposed to anecdotes. Honestly, I don't want to strawman your views and I'm wondering if we were just talking past each other yesterday. Could you just clarify how big you think the problem is? "Kind of wish I hadnt bothered really. You asked for definitions of TM. Which I cheerfully went off to google and came up with a nice simple little quote that struck a cord. I dont think it is a massive problem no I have no statistics to back up any claims. But its not too far a stretch to see that these boys who have had to fight for existence a bit with parents,siblings,peers who are then always mocked and shunned/ rejected by woman,their mothers even could become these angry 'incels' of the discussion ? I dont think it is all or every boy no, I dont even think it is that many. And Im sure plenty more goes into someones thinking to become radicalised. I was merely offering a defintion of 'toxic masculinity' | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
You might have been I wasnt
Were talking about standards of exaggerated masculinity at a societal level, I don't think you are being honest here.
Yes and I was making the point about how I could see why 'toxic masculinity' in the form of violence towards young men would enable feelings of anger and aggression. Little Johnny living the average life wouldnt be under those same influences so what is the point mentioning the average person. Which I didnt and you did?
And yet why do we blame "society" for imposing such expectations? I believe someone mentioned training the tenderness out of boys.
Good job I am feeling Zen tonight.
Who is blaming society for what, or was that a gap filler?
I took a soundbite off the internet to try to describe the meaning of the issue under question. No one is naive enough to assume 'training' means in the literal sense. Learning happens under many forms.
Honestly, I'm really confused what you believe now. Yesterday I thought you were saying that a lot of boys (call it more than 30%) were being taught to hit first, ask questions later. Is that what you believe or not?
And I believe you have a real hard on for %'s
And is what I am saying now much different to that?
Yes i like facts a lot, I believe they are the best way to understand the world as opposed to anecdotes. Honestly, I don't want to strawman your views and I'm wondering if we were just talking past each other yesterday. Could you just clarify how big you think the problem is?
Kind of wish I hadnt bothered really.
You asked for definitions of TM. Which I cheerfully went off to google and came up with a nice simple little quote that struck a cord.
I dont think it is a massive problem no I have no statistics to back up any claims. But its not too far a stretch to see that these boys who have had to fight for existence a bit with parents,siblings,peers who are then always mocked and shunned/ rejected by woman,their mothers even could become these angry 'incels' of the discussion ?
I dont think it is all or every boy no, I dont even think it is that many. And Im sure plenty more goes into someones thinking to become radicalised.
I was merely offering a defintion of 'toxic masculinity'
"Right, I don't know why you thought it was strange when i said I had no personal experience of that culture. But maybe it was just a misunderstanding. To be honest i thought that was you offering your own idea of what toxic masculinity was, like another poster did, I hadn't appreciated that it was a copy and paste. | |||
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" Society is made up of individuals with individual lives and choices. Not a collection of random averages, many of which seem to have simply been invented for the purpose of spurious argument by certain contributions to this thread. Exactly! And to to beat my own drum is why we should argue against silly notions such as toxic masculinity which fail to recognise the individual and his/her personal circumstances, background and responsibility. " Perhaps rather less beating your own drum and only selecting those portions of any post that support your own world view may be a good place to start! Most people learn behaviour some often those with mental health issues fall outside that "normality". If we create a toxic world then we real toxic behaviours in all their forms... | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
You might have been I wasnt
Were talking about standards of exaggerated masculinity at a societal level, I don't think you are being honest here.
Yes and I was making the point about how I could see why 'toxic masculinity' in the form of violence towards young men would enable feelings of anger and aggression. Little Johnny living the average life wouldnt be under those same influences so what is the point mentioning the average person. Which I didnt and you did?
And yet why do we blame "society" for imposing such expectations? I believe someone mentioned training the tenderness out of boys.
Good job I am feeling Zen tonight.
Who is blaming society for what, or was that a gap filler?
I took a soundbite off the internet to try to describe the meaning of the issue under question. No one is naive enough to assume 'training' means in the literal sense. Learning happens under many forms.
Honestly, I'm really confused what you believe now. Yesterday I thought you were saying that a lot of boys (call it more than 30%) were being taught to hit first, ask questions later. Is that what you believe or not?
And I believe you have a real hard on for %'s
And is what I am saying now much different to that?
Yes i like facts a lot, I believe they are the best way to understand the world as opposed to anecdotes. Honestly, I don't want to strawman your views and I'm wondering if we were just talking past each other yesterday. Could you just clarify how big you think the problem is?
Kind of wish I hadnt bothered really.
You asked for definitions of TM. Which I cheerfully went off to google and came up with a nice simple little quote that struck a cord.
I dont think it is a massive problem no I have no statistics to back up any claims. But its not too far a stretch to see that these boys who have had to fight for existence a bit with parents,siblings,peers who are then always mocked and shunned/ rejected by woman,their mothers even could become these angry 'incels' of the discussion ?
I dont think it is all or every boy no, I dont even think it is that many. And Im sure plenty more goes into someones thinking to become radicalised.
I was merely offering a defintion of 'toxic masculinity'
Right, I don't know why you thought it was strange when i said I had no personal experience of that culture. But maybe it was just a misunderstanding. To be honest i thought that was you offering your own idea of what toxic masculinity was, like another poster did, I hadn't appreciated that it was a copy and paste. "I didnt think it was strange you had no experience of it, not everyone grows up in the same environment. I thought it was strange you didnt seem to think it could possibly happen. Crossed wires all round maybe. | |||
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"Fair. My attempt at a solution is to listen to and support people early. And to avoid the conditions for poor upbringing with less single parent families and a more inclusive society. Any stats on prevalence of incels by culture? Bad influences and poor upbringing seemed a totally alien concept last night.
Did they?
We were talking about the average upbringing if I recall.
You might have been I wasnt
Were talking about standards of exaggerated masculinity at a societal level, I don't think you are being honest here.
Yes and I was making the point about how I could see why 'toxic masculinity' in the form of violence towards young men would enable feelings of anger and aggression. Little Johnny living the average life wouldnt be under those same influences so what is the point mentioning the average person. Which I didnt and you did?
And yet why do we blame "society" for imposing such expectations? I believe someone mentioned training the tenderness out of boys.
Good job I am feeling Zen tonight.
Who is blaming society for what, or was that a gap filler?
I took a soundbite off the internet to try to describe the meaning of the issue under question. No one is naive enough to assume 'training' means in the literal sense. Learning happens under many forms.
Honestly, I'm really confused what you believe now. Yesterday I thought you were saying that a lot of boys (call it more than 30%) were being taught to hit first, ask questions later. Is that what you believe or not?
And I believe you have a real hard on for %'s
And is what I am saying now much different to that?
Yes i like facts a lot, I believe they are the best way to understand the world as opposed to anecdotes. Honestly, I don't want to strawman your views and I'm wondering if we were just talking past each other yesterday. Could you just clarify how big you think the problem is? "Err.... Then why..... Nevermind.... Incels are entitled twats. Rather than teaching masculinity, etc. Maybe we just need to stop men thinking they're entitled to do whatever they want to women. | |||
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" Incels are entitled twats. Rather than teaching masculinity, etc. Maybe we just need to stop men thinking they're entitled to do whatever they want to women." I don't think that's an accurate diagnosis of the problem and therefore I think the solution is false. I think that's a symptom not a cause. I think most men and women do not deal with rejection well, it's just that women don't tend to pursue men and therefore don't get rejected anywhere near as much. I certainly think both sexes would benefit from learning how to take rejection better. | |||
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" Incels are entitled twats. Rather than teaching masculinity, etc. Maybe we just need to stop men thinking they're entitled to do whatever they want to women. I don't think that's an accurate diagnosis of the problem and therefore I think the solution is false. I think that's a symptom not a cause. I think most men and women do not deal with rejection well, it's just that women don't tend to pursue men and therefore don't get rejected anywhere near as much. I certainly think both sexes would benefit from learning how to take rejection better. " Its not just humans. Was just watching a programme on tree damage from sexually frustrated males squirrels who would never get to mate. I thought of this thread  | |||
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" Incels are entitled twats. Rather than teaching masculinity, etc. Maybe we just need to stop men thinking they're entitled to do whatever they want to women. I don't think that's an accurate diagnosis of the problem and therefore I think the solution is false. I think that's a symptom not a cause. I think most men and women do not deal with rejection well, it's just that women don't tend to pursue men and therefore don't get rejected anywhere near as much. I certainly think both sexes would benefit from learning how to take rejection better. Its not just humans. Was just watching a programme on tree damage from sexually frustrated males squirrels who would never get to mate. I thought of this thread "Ha ha good point, I bet incels in the animal kingdom become brutal | |||
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" Society is made up of individuals with individual lives and choices. Not a collection of random averages, many of which seem to have simply been invented for the purpose of spurious argument by certain contributions to this thread. Exactly! And to to beat my own drum is why we should argue against silly notions such as toxic masculinity which fail to recognise the individual and his/her personal circumstances, background and responsibility. Perhaps rather less beating your own drum and only selecting those portions of any post that support your own world view may be a good place to start! Most people learn behaviour some often those with mental health issues fall outside that "normality". If we create a toxic world then we real toxic behaviours in all their forms..." You're complaining because i'm agreeing with you yet didn't quote some cliche about statistics being made up and parents raising their kids right??? Chill out a bit. | |||
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"Violence in society fell predominantly because we removed lead from fuel. There's excellent research about lead and the connection to violence, the big drop came in the late 80s as unleaded came in. Was there a lot of lead in the air 60,000 years ago when the murder rate was ~10%? Who the bloody hell collected/compiled statistics 60000 years ago? We’re talking around the time early humans migrated from Africa. What’s the relevance? It's from archaeology rather than surveys. It's about whether society is getting more or less violent and how long that trend is. " Have you any idea how sparse the archeological record is? I suppose it helped that the 10% were all murdered near peat bogs and perfectly preserved. All conjecture, and surely we’ve learned by now everything we think we know usually turns out wrong. Lead was blamed for the fall of the Roman Empire. That’s largely been debunked now but who knows it may come into fashion again? Anyway whoever created the term INCEL created a group that people rushed to identify with. The group then took the idea and ran with it, largely thanks to the internet allowing liners to find each other across the planet. It’s Like when a vague collection of symptoms is included in the DSM manuals and then lo and behold people suddenly have this illness that needs long term treatment. I think humanity is going to confuse itself out of existence. | |||
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"Violence in society fell predominantly because we removed lead from fuel. There's excellent research about lead and the connection to violence, the big drop came in the late 80s as unleaded came in. Was there a lot of lead in the air 60,000 years ago when the murder rate was ~10%? Who the bloody hell collected/compiled statistics 60000 years ago? We’re talking around the time early humans migrated from Africa. What’s the relevance? It's from archaeology rather than surveys. It's about whether society is getting more or less violent and how long that trend is. Have you any idea how sparse the archeological record is? I suppose it helped that the 10% were all murdered near peat bogs and perfectly preserved. " Did you not see the '~' I put in front of the 10%? Of course it's a rough figure but what does it matter if it's ~9% or ~11% to the larger point that is almost unanimously agreed up by academics - The world was a hell of a lot more violent 60,000 years ago than today. " All conjecture, and surely we’ve learned by now everything we think we know usually turns out wrong. " So you don't like the scientific method because it corrects itself? You'd rather we didn't make any statements so nothing can ever be proved wrong? What on earth is your point? " Lead was blamed for the fall of the Roman Empire. That’s largely been debunked now but who knows it may come into fashion again? Anyway whoever created the term INCEL created a group that people rushed to identify with. The group then took the idea and ran with it, largely thanks to the internet allowing liners to find each other across the planet. It’s Like when a vague collection of symptoms is included in the DSM manuals and then lo and behold people suddenly have this illness that needs long term treatment. I think humanity is going to confuse itself out of existence. " | |||
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"It was a different world 60000 years ago. Your trying to compare it to the modern world when rubbishing someone else’s point of view; a view also supported by scientific evidence but which you decide isn’t as valid as the stuff you hold because it doesn’t support your viewpoint. Just hypothesising anything 60000 years ago off an extremely limited fossil record is a lot more speculative in this case. Dinosaurs used to be green. Then they’re feathered. Anyway anthropology/sociology isn’t really scientific in any meaningful way, like psychology, psychiatry. It’s all nonsense based on ad hoc hypotheses "I wasn't rubbishing what he was saying at all. The two are not mutually exclusive. | |||
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"Vice news have just shown an interview with an incel on YouTube, the video is called "this is what the life of an incel looks like". So say there's a lot of mental health issues in that community would be an understatement. One guy literally and deliberately shits himself on camera. " Which country? | |||
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"Vice news have just shown an interview with an incel on YouTube, the video is called "this is what the life of an incel looks like". So say there's a lot of mental health issues in that community would be an understatement. One guy literally and deliberately shits himself on camera. " I wonder why no-one wants to fuck him. | |||
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"Vice news have just shown an interview with an incel on YouTube, the video is called "this is what the life of an incel looks like". So say there's a lot of mental health issues in that community would be an understatement. One guy literally and deliberately shits himself on camera. Which country?" Not entirely sure as he did it on a webcam on an incel chatroom. The other guys were just like "yeah he does that a lot". | |||
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"Vice news have just shown an interview with an incel on YouTube, the video is called "this is what the life of an incel looks like". So say there's a lot of mental health issues in that community would be an understatement. One guy literally and deliberately shits himself on camera. I wonder why no-one wants to fuck him. " The other scary thing is they showed some pictures of Elliot Rodger who was the incel that went on a murder rampage. Being honest, the guy really isn't bad looking at all. In fact he's probably 7/10. So how bad was his personality | |||
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"Vice news have just shown an interview with an incel on YouTube, the video is called "this is what the life of an incel looks like". So say there's a lot of mental health issues in that community would be an understatement. One guy literally and deliberately shits himself on camera. I wonder why no-one wants to fuck him. The other scary thing is they showed some pictures of Elliot Rodger who was the incel that went on a murder rampage. Being honest, the guy really isn't bad looking at all. In fact he's probably 7/10. So how bad was his personality "I was thinking that both the men who we saw weren't terrible looking. | |||
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"Vice news have just shown an interview with an incel on YouTube, the video is called "this is what the life of an incel looks like". So say there's a lot of mental health issues in that community would be an understatement. One guy literally and deliberately shits himself on camera. I wonder why no-one wants to fuck him. The other scary thing is they showed some pictures of Elliot Rodger who was the incel that went on a murder rampage. Being honest, the guy really isn't bad looking at all. In fact he's probably 7/10. So how bad was his personality
I was thinking that both the men who we saw weren't terrible looking. "But checking the Wikipedia page, there's a whole host of mental health conditions he was prescribed medicine for, including schizophrenia, bipolar, aspergers, autism and some kind of obsession with world of Warcraft. | |||
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"Vice news have just shown an interview with an incel on YouTube, the video is called "this is what the life of an incel looks like". So say there's a lot of mental health issues in that community would be an understatement. One guy literally and deliberately shits himself on camera. I wonder why no-one wants to fuck him. The other scary thing is they showed some pictures of Elliot Rodger who was the incel that went on a murder rampage. Being honest, the guy really isn't bad looking at all. In fact he's probably 7/10. So how bad was his personality
I was thinking that both the men who we saw weren't terrible looking.
But checking the Wikipedia page, there's a whole host of mental health conditions he was prescribed medicine for, including schizophrenia, bipolar, aspergers, autism and some kind of obsession with world of Warcraft. "Bet he played a female belf. | |||
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"Oh gosh, incel.me have done a user survey and given us some fun facts from 292 users: - So 1/3 are aged 18-21 - 2/3 Have no real friends - 52.9% say they are misanthropes meaning they hate the entire human race and not just women - 71% Have a mental illness - 16.4% Have had sex and it wasn't a hooked - 15% Have had sex with a hooker - 36.5% Have kissed a girl that wasn't a hooker This sounds a lot more like a group of people that have psychosis than a group whose problems stem from being fundamentally unsuccessful with women." It does go against the grain somewhat. | |||
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"The thing you tend to see come up a lot is the "nice guy" narrative. This idea that they are owed sex or a girlfriend because they are a "nice guy". I've seen some people lay that one at the feet of pop culture where most movies end up with the guy getting the girl. There's a channel on YouTube called Pop Culture Detective who does some really good videos about toxic masculinity in film and media. Definitely worth watching if you have a bit of spare time. But the whole "nice guy" thing is interesting as they only tend to be nice until they don't get what they want, at which point they turn decidedly nasty. Like if the girl doesn't reply, what they consider, fast enough it will go from "you're cute/beautiful" to "fuck you then, you're ugly anyway" very quickly. There's definitely a sense of entitlement there." that's an unfair generalisation but probably based upon your own experience which is likely to be very different to mine, this world needs nice guys who put a little thought into what they do and say. The bad reactions you referred to could also be down to maybe the way they are rejected but at the end of day no excuse for abuse of any kind, nice guys should be nurtured not spurned | |||
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"The thing you tend to see come up a lot is the "nice guy" narrative. This idea that they are owed sex or a girlfriend because they are a "nice guy". I've seen some people lay that one at the feet of pop culture where most movies end up with the guy getting the girl. There's a channel on YouTube called Pop Culture Detective who does some really good videos about toxic masculinity in film and media. Definitely worth watching if you have a bit of spare time. But the whole "nice guy" thing is interesting as they only tend to be nice until they don't get what they want, at which point they turn decidedly nasty. Like if the girl doesn't reply, what they consider, fast enough it will go from "you're cute/beautiful" to "fuck you then, you're ugly anyway" very quickly. There's definitely a sense of entitlement there.that's an unfair generalisation but probably based upon your own experience which is likely to be very different to mine, this world needs nice guys who put a little thought into what they do and say. The bad reactions you referred to could also be down to maybe the way they are rejected but at the end of day no excuse for abuse of any kind, nice guys should be nurtured not spurned "Oh I'm all for nice guys, my point was more that a lot of the interactions you see reposted variously around the internet show that the niceness isn't genuine. I,personally, much prefer a nice guy whose a bit nerdy. | |||
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"Was there a lot of lead in the air 60,000 years ago when the murder rate was ~10%? " Where’s your evidence for a 10% murder rate in the Upper Palaeolithic? I’m certainly not aware of any. | |||
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"The thing you tend to see come up a lot is the "nice guy" narrative. This idea that they are owed sex or a girlfriend because they are a "nice guy". I've seen some people lay that one at the feet of pop culture where most movies end up with the guy getting the girl. There's a channel on YouTube called Pop Culture Detective who does some really good videos about toxic masculinity in film and media. Definitely worth watching if you have a bit of spare time. But the whole "nice guy" thing is interesting as they only tend to be nice until they don't get what they want, at which point they turn decidedly nasty. Like if the girl doesn't reply, what they consider, fast enough it will go from "you're cute/beautiful" to "fuck you then, you're ugly anyway" very quickly. There's definitely a sense of entitlement there.that's an unfair generalisation but probably based upon your own experience which is likely to be very different to mine, this world needs nice guys who put a little thought into what they do and say. The bad reactions you referred to could also be down to maybe the way they are rejected but at the end of day no excuse for abuse of any kind, nice guys should be nurtured not spurned
Oh I'm all for nice guys, my point was more that a lot of the interactions you see reposted variously around the internet show that the niceness isn't genuine.
I,personally, much prefer a nice guy whose a bit nerdy."Most of them don't actually see themselves as "nice guys" anyway. Feminist take the blue pill, MGTOW take the red pill and incels say they took the black pill. More than half of them full on hate the human race entirely, that's hardly nice guy territory. | |||
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"Was there a lot of lead in the air 60,000 years ago when the murder rate was ~10%? Where’s your evidence for a 10% murder rate in the Upper Palaeolithic? I’m certainly not aware of any." Can't remember the orgial study sorry but it was based on archaeological evidence. | |||
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"Was there a lot of lead in the air 60,000 years ago when the murder rate was ~10%? Where’s your evidence for a 10% murder rate in the Upper Palaeolithic? I’m certainly not aware of any. Can't remember the orgial study sorry but it was based on archaeological evidence. " I was wondering who was compiling murder stats 60k years ago?...  | |||
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"Was there a lot of lead in the air 60,000 years ago when the murder rate was ~10%? Where’s your evidence for a 10% murder rate in the Upper Palaeolithic? I’m certainly not aware of any. Can't remember the orgial study sorry but it was based on archaeological evidence. I was wondering who was compiling murder stats 60k years ago?... "The exact percentage is obviously a rough figure but you can tell by the proportion of bodies burried in given locations as tribes moved, some obvious signs of killing like arrows stuck in the the skeleton, whether the skeletons were male or female etc. Dr Gary Urton at Harvard has written a lot about it... | |||
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"Was there a lot of lead in the air 60,000 years ago when the murder rate was ~10%? Where’s your evidence for a 10% murder rate in the Upper Palaeolithic? I’m certainly not aware of any. Can't remember the orgial study sorry but it was based on archaeological evidence. " It’s the first I’ve heard of it and let’s say I have a professional interest in old stuff. | |||
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"Was there a lot of lead in the air 60,000 years ago when the murder rate was ~10%? Where’s your evidence for a 10% murder rate in the Upper Palaeolithic? I’m certainly not aware of any. Can't remember the orgial study sorry but it was based on archaeological evidence. It’s the first I’ve heard of it and let’s say I have a professional interest in old stuff. "Are you familiar with Gary Urton (Harvard) or Johan van see Dennen? Do you have an impression Paleolithic society was less violent than today? | |||
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