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Do you believe trans women are women?

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By *ivinefox OP   Woman
over a year ago

Coventry

Currently there's a sign in London being projected onto a building saying, "Repeat after me, Transwomen are Wonen". I have a lot of trans friends and am not anti trans people at all but just wondered what both men and women on here felt about this currently contentious issue...?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes. I do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes

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By *iamondsmiles.Woman
over a year ago

little house on the praire

Yes of cause they are women

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely

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By *hickennchipsWoman
over a year ago

up above the streets and houses

I'm not sure? I need to think about this..

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By *he Mac LassWoman
over a year ago

Hefty Hideaway

Undoubtedly. The most inspiring women I know.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I think you are whatever you're born.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's a yes from me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they have surgery and really feel like women.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If they have surgery and really feel like women. "

I would agree with that

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By *itvclaireTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham

Yes 100%

XX

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By *ivinefox OP   Woman
over a year ago

Coventry

What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? "

No.


" And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?"

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke

Honestly, how can people be venturing answers to such a vague question!? What the fuck is wrong with people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Definitely

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes I do believe that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?"

Yes. A woman will not have a penis .

Putting a dress and make up does not make a man a woman. Women don't want penises. Except the ones who like fucking men with a strap on. We have penis envy.

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By *tonMessCouple
over a year ago

Slough Windsor ish

Absolutely yes, they are women.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Honestly, how can people be venturing answers to such a vague question!? What the fuck is wrong with people "

Because I’m taking at the level that it refers to a trans woman who feels she is a woman and I take that as enough. I don’t feel the need to unpick more specifically unless someone asks a more specific question.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It*

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Spain just selected a trans woman to represent them in Miss Universe.

I'd guess she is post-up. But it's not something you like to ask, really.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?

Yes. A woman will not have a penis .

Putting a dress and make up does not make a man a woman. Women don't want penises. Except the ones who like fucking men with a strap on. We have penis envy."

I disagree.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?

Yes. A woman will not have a penis .

Putting a dress and make up does not make a man a woman. Women don't want penises. Except the ones who like fucking men with a strap on. We have penis envy.

I disagree."

For me it is how the individual wants to be recognised.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?

Yes. A woman will not have a penis .

Putting a dress and make up does not make a man a woman. Women don't want penises. Except the ones who like fucking men with a strap on. We have penis envy.

I disagree."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?

Yes. A woman will not have a penis .

Putting a dress and make up does not make a man a woman. Women don't want penises. Except the ones who like fucking men with a strap on. We have penis envy.

I disagree.

For me it is how the individual wants to be recognised. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No not for me,if you are born with a vagina you are a woman.If you are born with a dick you are a male.If you want to change then that's cool though.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Honestly, how can people be venturing answers to such a vague question!? What the fuck is wrong with people

Because I’m taking at the level that it refers to a trans woman who feels she is a woman and I take that as enough. I don’t feel the need to unpick more specifically unless someone asks a more specific question.

"

You're talking at that level. How do you know the other people on the thread interpreted it that way? How can there be any meaningful discussion if you have different interpretations of the question!?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Currently there's a sign in London being projected onto a building saying, "Repeat after me, Transwomen are Wonen". I have a lot of trans friends and am not anti trans people at all but just wondered what both men and women on here felt about this currently contentious issue...?"

Is this pre op, or post op, OP ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No not for me,if you are born with a vagina you are a woman.If you are born with a dick you are a male.If you want to change then that's cool though."

And if they change it? Then what?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Honestly, how can people be venturing answers to such a vague question!? What the fuck is wrong with people

Because I’m taking at the level that it refers to a trans woman who feels she is a woman and I take that as enough. I don’t feel the need to unpick more specifically unless someone asks a more specific question.

You're talking at that level. How do you know the other people on the thread interpreted it that way? How can there be any meaningful discussion if you have different interpretations of the question!? "

Because I respect that someone will ask me to clarify if they want to know more. And oh look?! They did, albeit with a big whiff of BrokenBellend condescension, and oh look?! I clarified. It’s crazy how this works, no?

Now tell us more how we should post in the way that fits your singleminded view of the world and stops your eye twitching?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Currently there's a sign in London being projected onto a building saying, "Repeat after me, Transwomen are Wonen". I have a lot of trans friends and am not anti trans people at all but just wondered what both men and women on here felt about this currently contentious issue...?

Is this pre op, or post op, OP ?"

Existential crisis!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No not for me,if you are born with a vagina you are a woman.If you are born with a dick you are a male.If you want to change then that's cool though.

And if they change it? Then what? "

Transgender

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Honestly, how can people be venturing answers to such a vague question!? What the fuck is wrong with people

Because I’m taking at the level that it refers to a trans woman who feels she is a woman and I take that as enough. I don’t feel the need to unpick more specifically unless someone asks a more specific question.

You're talking at that level. How do you know the other people on the thread interpreted it that way? How can there be any meaningful discussion if you have different interpretations of the question!? "

It’s funny how we all know it’s the man of the couple talking, I mean I’ve never had it clarified but I’ll put my house on it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Honestly, how can people be venturing answers to such a vague question!? What the fuck is wrong with people

Because I’m taking at the level that it refers to a trans woman who feels she is a woman and I take that as enough. I don’t feel the need to unpick more specifically unless someone asks a more specific question.

You're talking at that level. How do you know the other people on the thread interpreted it that way? How can there be any meaningful discussion if you have different interpretations of the question!?

It’s funny how we all know it’s the man of the couple talking, I mean I’ve never had it clarified but I’ll put my house on it. "

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Honestly, how can people be venturing answers to such a vague question!? What the fuck is wrong with people

Because I’m taking at the level that it refers to a trans woman who feels she is a woman and I take that as enough. I don’t feel the need to unpick more specifically unless someone asks a more specific question.

You're talking at that level. How do you know the other people on the thread interpreted it that way? How can there be any meaningful discussion if you have different interpretations of the question!?

Because I respect that someone will ask me to clarify if they want to know more. And oh look?! They did, albeit with a big whiff of BrokenBellend condescension, and oh look?! I clarified. It’s crazy how this works, no?

Now tell us more how we should post in the way that fits your singleminded view of the world and stops your eye twitching?

"

Ok, could you please define the terms 'woman' and 'trans' for me so that I may better understand your response?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Honestly, how can people be venturing answers to such a vague question!? What the fuck is wrong with people

Because I’m taking at the level that it refers to a trans woman who feels she is a woman and I take that as enough. I don’t feel the need to unpick more specifically unless someone asks a more specific question.

You're talking at that level. How do you know the other people on the thread interpreted it that way? How can there be any meaningful discussion if you have different interpretations of the question!?

Because I respect that someone will ask me to clarify if they want to know more. And oh look?! They did, albeit with a big whiff of BrokenBellend condescension, and oh look?! I clarified. It’s crazy how this works, no?

Now tell us more how we should post in the way that fits your singleminded view of the world and stops your eye twitching?

Ok, could you please define the terms 'woman' and 'trans' for me so that I may better understand your response? "

Hiding behind his wife’s vagina.

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By *ast_And_CuriousMan
over a year ago

Sevenoaks

OK, so why is there a much higher proportion of Transgender women in Thailand? Tell someone you're off to holiday in Thailand and all you get is ladyboy jokes constantly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they feel like a woman who are we to disagree?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My mind says yes but my dick says no

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My mind says yes but my dick says no "

You can’t argue with your dick !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No not for me,if you are born with a vagina you are a woman.If you are born with a dick you are a male.If you want to change then that's cool though."

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By *itvclaireTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham


"What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?

Yes. A woman will not have a penis .

Putting a dress and make up does not make a man a woman. Women don't want penises. Except the ones who like fucking men with a strap on. We have penis envy.

I disagree.

"

Most definite. As for a guy in s dress. They might not identify as male. Know I don’t. Gender isn’t binary and you genitals don’t define your gender.

XX

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Caitlyn Jenner is always going to be Bruce to most Americans.

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan
over a year ago

Aberdeenshire


"Ok, could you please define the terms 'woman' and 'trans' for me so that I may better understand your response? "

Could you please define the terms ‘define’ and ‘terms’ for us so we may better understand how pointlessly pedantic you’re going to get?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Honestly, how can people be venturing answers to such a vague question!? What the fuck is wrong with people

Because I’m taking at the level that it refers to a trans woman who feels she is a woman and I take that as enough. I don’t feel the need to unpick more specifically unless someone asks a more specific question.

You're talking at that level. How do you know the other people on the thread interpreted it that way? How can there be any meaningful discussion if you have different interpretations of the question!?

Because I respect that someone will ask me to clarify if they want to know more. And oh look?! They did, albeit with a big whiff of BrokenBellend condescension, and oh look?! I clarified. It’s crazy how this works, no?

Now tell us more how we should post in the way that fits your singleminded view of the world and stops your eye twitching?

Ok, could you please define the terms 'woman' and 'trans' for me so that I may better understand your response? "

No. You understand my response, or you’re not the expert genius you have self labelled yourself to me in conversation. Let me know if you actually fudged the truth.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Ok, could you please define the terms 'woman' and 'trans' for me so that I may better understand your response?

Could you please define the terms ‘define’ and ‘terms’ for us so we may better understand how pointlessly pedantic you’re going to get?"

Oh good, the social Justice warriors have arrived to shut down debate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?"

Valid point

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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago

Paisley

I have a friend who is a transgender woman but cannot have the operation as she has had cancer and the hormone tablets would increase the chance of the cancer returning. She has won awards for her work with the LGBT community, including a national Attitude Icon award. She’s known since she was 7 that she was female and her story has been in the media as she’s had quite a traumatic life. She still suffers physical and verbal abuse at times in the streets of Glasgow.

For me it doesn’t matter how a person dresses but how they want to be addressed!

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Honestly, how can people be venturing answers to such a vague question!? What the fuck is wrong with people

Because I’m taking at the level that it refers to a trans woman who feels she is a woman and I take that as enough. I don’t feel the need to unpick more specifically unless someone asks a more specific question.

You're talking at that level. How do you know the other people on the thread interpreted it that way? How can there be any meaningful discussion if you have different interpretations of the question!?

Because I respect that someone will ask me to clarify if they want to know more. And oh look?! They did, albeit with a big whiff of BrokenBellend condescension, and oh look?! I clarified. It’s crazy how this works, no?

Now tell us more how we should post in the way that fits your singleminded view of the world and stops your eye twitching?

Ok, could you please define the terms 'woman' and 'trans' for me so that I may better understand your response?

No. You understand my response, or you’re not the expert genius you have self labelled yourself to me in conversation. Let me know if you actually fudged the truth. "

No i can think of many ways to interpret the original question, which would generate different answers.

I think the OP knows that trans people have the same chromosomes and biology they were born with.

I think the OP knows that trans people that have undergone gender reassignment will be legally known by their acquired gender.

I think the OP knows that many trans people feel like they were born into the wrong body and i don't think my previous three statements are debatable.

So I'm really not sure what the question is.

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By *hickennchipsWoman
over a year ago

up above the streets and houses

Why do certain people have to try to belittle others in the forum? No wonder new people get put off posting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok, could you please define the terms 'woman' and 'trans' for me so that I may better understand your response?

Could you please define the terms ‘define’ and ‘terms’ for us so we may better understand how pointlessly pedantic you’re going to get?

Oh good, the social Justice warriors have arrived to shut down debate"

It’s okay for you to disagree. Posting on the thread wasn’t actually an agreement to *have* to debate semantics with you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m sorry but a man who has an operation to become a woman isn’t a woman, it takes a flight of fantasy to think that they are. Biological it simply isn’t the case, however much you’d like to think so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

100% yes from me. We are a productive society and I support the LGBT community

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I have a friend who is a transgender woman but cannot have the operation as she has had cancer and the hormone tablets would increase the chance of the cancer returning. She has won awards for her work with the LGBT community, including a national Attitude Icon award. She’s known since she was 7 that she was female and her story has been in the media as she’s had quite a traumatic life. She still suffers physical and verbal abuse at times in the streets of Glasgow.

For me it doesn’t matter how a person dresses but how they want to be addressed! "

This xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No I don’t agree with it..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I have a friend who is a transgender woman but cannot have the operation as she has had cancer and the hormone tablets would increase the chance of the cancer returning. She has won awards for her work with the LGBT community, including a national Attitude Icon award. She’s known since she was 7 that she was female and her story has been in the media as she’s had quite a traumatic life. She still suffers physical and verbal abuse at times in the streets of Glasgow.

For me it doesn’t matter how a person dresses but how they want to be addressed! "

I would call her a woman.

A man who wanted to dress like a woman and feel feminine but didn't want to lose his penis, I would call a man who likes to feel feminine. I'd still call him her and by her chosen name if that's what he wanted.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Ok, could you please define the terms 'woman' and 'trans' for me so that I may better understand your response?

Could you please define the terms ‘define’ and ‘terms’ for us so we may better understand how pointlessly pedantic you’re going to get?

Oh good, the social Justice warriors have arrived to shut down debate

It’s okay for you to disagree. Posting on the thread wasn’t actually an agreement to *have* to debate semantics with you. "

How could I possibly disagree with a statement that a trans person feels like their acquired gender? There's nothing to disagree with.

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By *gnitemybodyWoman
over a year ago

Onestepoutofthedoor

Yes of course.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"I’m sorry but a man who has an operation to become a woman isn’t a woman, it takes a flight of fantasy to think that they are. Biological it simply isn’t the case, however much you’d like to think so."

Hence it depends if you want to use a biological definition, a legal one or one based on feels.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If someone feels like a woman, dresses like a woman, acts like a woman. Then as far as I’m concerned they’re a woman.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?"

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

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By *icentiousCouple
over a year ago

Up on them there hills

Me personally think there is no choice until you have three choices.

One pathway = no choice

Two pathways = a dilemma

Third pathway = choice.

Don’t take choice away from anyone.

Me personally, my wife is bi, my heterosexual side would make its choice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People need to realise that sex and gender are two separate things. You can change gender, you can’t change sex.

Just remember, Ian Huntley wishes to change gender. Would you really want them moved to a female prison?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Honestly, how can people be venturing answers to such a vague question!? What the fuck is wrong with people

Because I’m taking at the level that it refers to a trans woman who feels she is a woman and I take that as enough. I don’t feel the need to unpick more specifically unless someone asks a more specific question.

You're talking at that level. How do you know the other people on the thread interpreted it that way? How can there be any meaningful discussion if you have different interpretations of the question!?

Because I respect that someone will ask me to clarify if they want to know more. And oh look?! They did, albeit with a big whiff of BrokenBellend condescension, and oh look?! I clarified. It’s crazy how this works, no?

Now tell us more how we should post in the way that fits your singleminded view of the world and stops your eye twitching?

Ok, could you please define the terms 'woman' and 'trans' for me so that I may better understand your response?

No. You understand my response, or you’re not the expert genius you have self labelled yourself to me in conversation. Let me know if you actually fudged the truth.

No i can think of many ways to interpret the original question, which would generate different answers.

I think the OP knows that trans people have the same chromosomes and biology they were born with.

I think the OP knows that trans people that have undergone gender reassignment will be legally known by their acquired gender.

I think the OP knows that many trans people feel like they were born into the wrong body and i don't think my previous three statements are debatable.

So I'm really not sure what the question is. "

Then ask the OP. Don’t berate those that answered how they specifically read the question.

I’ve clarified how I read it and my answer. There’s really no need for a brouhaha.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I’m sorry but a man who has an operation to become a woman isn’t a woman, it takes a flight of fantasy to think that they are. Biological it simply isn’t the case, however much you’d like to think so.

Hence it depends if you want to use a biological definition, a legal one or one based on feels. "

The only one I’d be concern with is biological.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why do certain people have to try to belittle others in the forum? No wonder new people get put off posting "

Apologies if that was me. BB and I are friendly and jibe each other all the time. But I appreciate that may not have been understood by others. Sorry.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"People need to realise that sex and gender are two separate things. You can change gender, you can’t change sex.

Just remember, Ian Huntley wishes to change gender. Would you really want them moved to a female prison?"

They are but 'society' has also been using the terms interchangeably for a very long time. Many 'women' are not happy to find out that 'womens sport's apparently was a reference to gender, not sex. So people with male strength advantages and male skeletons can enter womens sports and beat the shit out of women. Funnily enough, that annoys a lot of people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im not the brightest guy il admit that but after clearing the cobwebs from my brain i have to say no the fact that we have the technology to change a persons sex nowadays changes nothing

If a guy had his cock and balls cut off in an accident hes still a guy

If a lady has her tits cut off same shes still a girl

Its like a person trying to deny there heritage like a young former poster used to when everyone said to heim he is what he was born no matter if he didnt believe it or live that way

I just cant see how this is any different

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Ok, could you please define the terms 'woman' and 'trans' for me so that I may better understand your response?

Could you please define the terms ‘define’ and ‘terms’ for us so we may better understand how pointlessly pedantic you’re going to get?

Oh good, the social Justice warriors have arrived to shut down debate

It’s okay for you to disagree. Posting on the thread wasn’t actually an agreement to *have* to debate semantics with you.

How could I possibly disagree with a statement that a trans person feels like their acquired gender? There's nothing to disagree with. "

Eh? That’s not what I was referencing.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"I’m sorry but a man who has an operation to become a woman isn’t a woman, it takes a flight of fantasy to think that they are. Biological it simply isn’t the case, however much you’d like to think so.

Hence it depends if you want to use a biological definition, a legal one or one based on feels.

The only one I’d be concern with is biological."

But there are implications that effect other definitions. I think most of us are reasonably fine with a man who undergoes gender reassignment, collecting their pension at 63 instead of 65. Entering a womens mixed martial Arts competition, not so much.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache. "

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance? "

Fist bump?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?

Yes. A woman will not have a penis .

Putting a dress and make up does not make a man a woman. Women don't want penises. Except the ones who like fucking men with a strap on. We have penis envy.

I disagree.

For me it is how the individual wants to be recognised. "

Exactly this. If they identify as a woman then that’s how they should be identified.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If they have surgery and really feel like women. "

What does a woman feel like?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No they are not , in the same way if I cut the top off a pear it doesn't become an apple

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I’m sorry but a man who has an operation to become a woman isn’t a woman, it takes a flight of fantasy to think that they are. Biological it simply isn’t the case, however much you’d like to think so.

Hence it depends if you want to use a biological definition, a legal one or one based on feels.

The only one I’d be concern with is biological.

But there are implications that effect other definitions. I think most of us are reasonably fine with a man who undergoes gender reassignment, collecting their pension at 63 instead of 65. Entering a womens mixed martial Arts competition, not so much."

No, that’s where it gets murky, competing in sports where they have a distinct physical advantage.

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?

Yes. A woman will not have a penis .

Putting a dress and make up does not make a man a woman. Women don't want penises. Except the ones who like fucking men with a strap on. We have penis envy.

I disagree.

For me it is how the individual wants to be recognised.

Exactly this. If they identify as a woman then that’s how they should be identified. "

You think it's fair for cisgendered women to be forced to compete with trans women in mixed martial arts?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance? "

For me a woman is a person who can give birth to another human, or am I way off ?!

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"People need to realise that sex and gender are two separate things. You can change gender, you can’t change sex.

Just remember, Ian Huntley wishes to change gender. Would you really want them moved to a female prison?"

I think I prefer the differentiation of sex and gender. You can be what ever gender you want to identify as, but your sex remains as per your genitals whether from birth or changed to. Legally it has to be black and white but in reality it feels grey to me as in Ian Huntleys case, no. In transgender/feminist violence cases, also no. In some cases, where surgical changes are not possible, yes. Gah, I want to respect all individuals and protect all people too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance? "

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

For me a woman is a person who can give birth to another human, or am I way off ?!"

If you want to make the biological arguments then you need compound features like a womb (or not) and chromosomes and genitals. There are cisgendered women who can't have children.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London


"What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?

Yes. A woman will not have a penis .

Putting a dress and make up does not make a man a woman. Women don't want penises. Except the ones who like fucking men with a strap on. We have penis envy.

I disagree.

For me it is how the individual wants to be recognised.

Exactly this. If they identify as a woman then that’s how they should be identified.

You think it's fair for cisgendered women to be forced to compete with trans women in mixed martial arts? "

That's where this whole. "self identified trans women are really women" is exposed as a fiction. As I understand it, sporting bodies will only allow trans women to compete in women's events when they have reached a certain hormonal level. The trans women still generally have an advantage, but the crucial point is that when it comes to actual real life no one actually believes mere self identification is enough.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *r_PinkMan
over a year ago

london stratford


"Currently there's a sign in London being projected onto a building saying, "Repeat after me, Transwomen are Wonen". I have a lot of trans friends and am not anti trans people at all but just wondered what both men and women on here felt about this currently contentious issue...?"

In a word.

yes.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

Fist bump? "

You two make me laugh! Just crack on already. I’m having a day of just living in the feels and celebrating woman.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

"

Should Fallon Fox be allowed to compete in the women's division of MMA promotions? Is it fair on the cisgendered women if Fallon Fox does. Google and YouTube are your friend.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

"

I go by the conventional definition. A woman is an adult female human being with a vagina, ovaries and so on.

Do you have an alternative definition that includes people with penises?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The biological definition would dictate not because they are not capable of bearing offspring.

The legal definition would dictate not, if pre opp.

The social definition would be greatly variable, as we are seeing in this tread.

I suppose it comes down to the perceived definition of a woman.

My personal view is the biological definition, however, if someone wishes to live as a female, whether or not they have surgery, others should accept their choices, and perhaps they should go unchallenged.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

Fist bump?

You two make me laugh! Just crack on already. I’m having a day of just living in the feels and celebrating woman. "

There are plenty of women deeply concerned at what the ideology of self identification means by biological women. Read Rebecca Reilly Cooper and Kathryn Stock for a thoughtful, critical take on the issue.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *obbytupperMan
over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

Nature decides these things not general opinion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

For me a woman is a person who can give birth to another human, or am I way off ?!"

Not all women can.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan
over a year ago

Aberdeenshire


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?"

If baked potatoes are potatoes why call them baked potatoes? Because we have lots of words to describe lots of things, but some words are umbrella terms.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

Should Fallon Fox be allowed to compete in the women's division of MMA promotions? Is it fair on the cisgendered women if Fallon Fox does. Google and YouTube are your friend. "

I’ve no idea who Fallon Fox is and even if I could be arsed to go and research because you told me to, and I can’t, it doesn’t negate my response to the OP on this thread. Now, you’re adding a different slant and context to the question, and I can’t really say I’m wholly interested in the sporting upset one way or another. It’s sport. *shrugs*

I’m arguing one or the other on it, I’m really not. I simply, personally, don’t care. Apologies.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

I go by the conventional definition. A woman is an adult female human being with a vagina, ovaries and so on.

Do you have an alternative definition that includes people with penises? "

Yes.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've never thought about it like this before, but I don't consider myself a woman purely because of what I have between my legs, but I consider myself a woman for many reasons, like the way I present myself, how I wear my hair, the make up and clothes I choose to wear, the toiletries I use, and just the knowledge that I am a woman, which is hard to describe as I've never known anything different. But I never look at my vagina and think, yes I'm a woman purely because I have this body part, it's just a small part of what makes up me.

TL;DR - I don't judge my gender on my genitals so I won't judge another's gender on their genitals, but on how they present themselves.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

I go by the conventional definition. A woman is an adult female human being with a vagina, ovaries and so on.

Do you have an alternative definition that includes people with penises?

Yes. "

Which is?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

Fist bump?

You two make me laugh! Just crack on already. I’m having a day of just living in the feels and celebrating woman.

There are plenty of women deeply concerned at what the ideology of self identification means by biological women. Read Rebecca Reilly Cooper and Kathryn Stock for a thoughtful, critical take on the issue. "

My comment didn’t say or imply there wasn’t. Don’t put words in my mouth, or write me reading lists.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

Should Fallon Fox be allowed to compete in the women's division of MMA promotions? Is it fair on the cisgendered women if Fallon Fox does. Google and YouTube are your friend.

I’ve no idea who Fallon Fox is and even if I could be arsed to go and research because you told me to, and I can’t, it doesn’t negate my response to the OP on this thread. Now, you’re adding a different slant and context to the question, and I can’t really say I’m wholly interested in the sporting upset one way or another. It’s sport. *shrugs*

I’m arguing one or the other on it, I’m really not. I simply, personally, don’t care. Apologies."

It’s just sport? When a young girl wishes to play a sport professionally and realises there is no point as she was born with XX chromosomes and all the people winning have XY.

How’s that good for women?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Currently there's a sign in London being projected onto a building saying, "Repeat after me, Transwomen are Wonen". I have a lot of trans friends and am not anti trans people at all but just wondered what both men and women on here felt about this currently contentious issue...?"
Don't think they can ever be 100% a woman . Simply because they was born a man .

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

I go by the conventional definition. A woman is an adult female human being with a vagina, ovaries and so on.

Do you have an alternative definition that includes people with penises?

Yes.

Which is? "

I’m not playing semantics. I’ve answered in my context. I’m sorry it’s not satisfactory.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *egasus NobMan
over a year ago

Merton

Not a popular opinion but no Trans Women are not Women. There is so much to women or men for that matter to think a sex change means you understand of go through the same life experience as the opposite sex.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

Fist bump?

You two make me laugh! Just crack on already. I’m having a day of just living in the feels and celebrating woman.

There are plenty of women deeply concerned at what the ideology of self identification means by biological women. Read Rebecca Reilly Cooper and Kathryn Stock for a thoughtful, critical take on the issue.

My comment didn’t say or imply there wasn’t. Don’t put words in my mouth, or write me reading lists. "

You appeared to imply this was some kind of boys thing. Apologies if that was wrong.

I am not trying to dictate your reading list. I just thought you might be interested in a left wing feminist view which doesn't accept trans ideology.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *ew sensationMan
over a year ago

widnes

Nah , a transwomen is a bloke

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

Should Fallon Fox be allowed to compete in the women's division of MMA promotions? Is it fair on the cisgendered women if Fallon Fox does. Google and YouTube are your friend.

I’ve no idea who Fallon Fox is and even if I could be arsed to go and research because you told me to, and I can’t, it doesn’t negate my response to the OP on this thread. Now, you’re adding a different slant and context to the question, and I can’t really say I’m wholly interested in the sporting upset one way or another. It’s sport. *shrugs*

I’m arguing one or the other on it, I’m really not. I simply, personally, don’t care. Apologies.

It’s just sport? When a young girl wishes to play a sport professionally and realises there is no point as she was born with XX chromosomes and all the people winning have XY.

How’s that good for women?"

You seem to be misinterpreting what I said. I didn’t say it’s just sport. I was specifically saying I’m not interested in sport because it’s sport - I’m not sporty, sorry. It’s not an area of knowledge I have! And I said I’m not arguing for the issue within the context of sport one way or another. So...

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *herrypinupCouple
over a year ago

Bath


"Why do certain people have to try to belittle others in the forum? No wonder new people get put off posting "

Because ironically, those who like to repeatedly use the forum to post their SJW propaganda, their ignorant Anti Trump BS or other Flawed liberal ideologies are only tolerant as long as your opinions adhere to theirs. Best just to leave them to it and let them have their own fucktard echo chamber. Put facts or logic in front of these people and they lose their minds.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

If baked potatoes are potatoes why call them baked potatoes? Because we have lots of words to describe lots of things, but some words are umbrella terms."

Baked potatoes were always potato’s, they weren’t apples and put on a little jacket, then asked everyone to call them a potato.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

I go by the conventional definition. A woman is an adult female human being with a vagina, ovaries and so on.

Do you have an alternative definition that includes people with penises?

Yes.

Which is? "

If John at work put a wig at night and become Joanna then its a no, they are gay crossdressing men.

If they live their life as women tegardless how convicing they look then its a yes and it must be respected.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

Fist bump?

You two make me laugh! Just crack on already. I’m having a day of just living in the feels and celebrating woman.

There are plenty of women deeply concerned at what the ideology of self identification means by biological women. Read Rebecca Reilly Cooper and Kathryn Stock for a thoughtful, critical take on the issue.

My comment didn’t say or imply there wasn’t. Don’t put words in my mouth, or write me reading lists.

You appeared to imply this was some kind of boys thing. Apologies if that was wrong.

I am not trying to dictate your reading list. I just thought you might be interested in a left wing feminist view which doesn't accept trans ideology. "

That’s okay, no I wasn’t implying it was a boys thing. I was laughing at you and BB, both of whom I chat/or have chatted with, and your glee at threads where you can unpick and debate. I love it.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

Should Fallon Fox be allowed to compete in the women's division of MMA promotions? Is it fair on the cisgendered women if Fallon Fox does. Google and YouTube are your friend.

I’ve no idea who Fallon Fox is and even if I could be arsed to go and research because you told me to, and I can’t, it doesn’t negate my response to the OP on this thread. Now, you’re adding a different slant and context to the question, and I can’t really say I’m wholly interested in the sporting upset one way or another. It’s sport. *shrugs*

I’m arguing one or the other on it, I’m really not. I simply, personally, don’t care. Apologies.

It’s just sport? When a young girl wishes to play a sport professionally and realises there is no point as she was born with XX chromosomes and all the people winning have XY.

How’s that good for women?

You seem to be misinterpreting what I said. I didn’t say it’s just sport. I was specifically saying I’m not interested in sport because it’s sport - I’m not sporty, sorry. It’s not an area of knowledge I have! And I said I’m not arguing for the issue within the context of sport one way or another. So... "

It matters to the women who play those sports though and if they have to compete with someone with the physical attributes of a man, they may just as well play against men, how is that fair.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Biologically, no. If someone is born with XY Chromosomes they are men, if they are born XX they are women - there are medical conditions which break the mould but most people afflicted with such illnesses hate the physical and mental impacts upon their lives.

That said, if someone undergoes the correct physchological diagnostic, therapy, clinical therapy, and anatomical changes, and wish to formally change their sex in the eyes of the Law - then they should be free to do so.

This being said it must be after professional diagnosis.

Fed up of hearing about groups in the LBTQ community being shamed cause a lesbian wont have sex with a man who 'identifies and feels like a woman'.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *hickennchipsWoman
over a year ago

up above the streets and houses

My considered response is no. I believe people are the gender to which they are born

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why do certain people have to try to belittle others in the forum? No wonder new people get put off posting

Because ironically, those who like to repeatedly use the forum to post their SJW propaganda, their ignorant Anti Trump BS or other Flawed liberal ideologies are only tolerant as long as your opinions adhere to theirs. Best just to leave them to it and let them have their own fucktard echo chamber. Put facts or logic in front of these people and they lose their minds."

Oh I’m having that one as directed at me.

Also BB would back me up here and say it’s not an accurate description of me. But it amuses me if people like to project and pretend it is.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

Should Fallon Fox be allowed to compete in the women's division of MMA promotions? Is it fair on the cisgendered women if Fallon Fox does. Google and YouTube are your friend.

I’ve no idea who Fallon Fox is and even if I could be arsed to go and research because you told me to, and I can’t, it doesn’t negate my response to the OP on this thread. Now, you’re adding a different slant and context to the question, and I can’t really say I’m wholly interested in the sporting upset one way or another. It’s sport. *shrugs*

I’m arguing one or the other on it, I’m really not. I simply, personally, don’t care. Apologies.

It’s just sport? When a young girl wishes to play a sport professionally and realises there is no point as she was born with XX chromosomes and all the people winning have XY.

How’s that good for women?

You seem to be misinterpreting what I said. I didn’t say it’s just sport. I was specifically saying I’m not interested in sport because it’s sport - I’m not sporty, sorry. It’s not an area of knowledge I have! And I said I’m not arguing for the issue within the context of sport one way or another. So...

It matters to the women who play those sports though and if they have to compete with someone with the physical attributes of a man, they may just as well play against men, how is that fair. "

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

Should Fallon Fox be allowed to compete in the women's division of MMA promotions? Is it fair on the cisgendered women if Fallon Fox does. Google and YouTube are your friend.

I’ve no idea who Fallon Fox is and even if I could be arsed to go and research because you told me to, and I can’t, it doesn’t negate my response to the OP on this thread. Now, you’re adding a different slant and context to the question, and I can’t really say I’m wholly interested in the sporting upset one way or another. It’s sport. *shrugs*

I’m arguing one or the other on it, I’m really not. I simply, personally, don’t care. Apologies.

It’s just sport? When a young girl wishes to play a sport professionally and realises there is no point as she was born with XX chromosomes and all the people winning have XY.

How’s that good for women?

You seem to be misinterpreting what I said. I didn’t say it’s just sport. I was specifically saying I’m not interested in sport because it’s sport - I’m not sporty, sorry. It’s not an area of knowledge I have! And I said I’m not arguing for the issue within the context of sport one way or another. So...

It matters to the women who play those sports though and if they have to compete with someone with the physical attributes of a man, they may just as well play against men, how is that fair. "

I’m sure it does. Again, not clear where I’ve said it doesn’t.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"Why do certain people have to try to belittle others in the forum? No wonder new people get put off posting

Because ironically, those who like to repeatedly use the forum to post their SJW propaganda, their ignorant Anti Trump BS or other Flawed liberal ideologies are only tolerant as long as your opinions adhere to theirs. Best just to leave them to it and let them have their own fucktard echo chamber. Put facts or logic in front of these people and they lose their minds.

Oh I’m having that one as directed at me.

Also BB would back me up here and say it’s not an accurate description of me. But it amuses me if people like to project and pretend it is. "

You're not an SJW, I don't think that comment was aimed at you. I did call someone an SJW above and i stand by that statement.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, but i don't care. And I don't care what transwomen call themselves. I do care if I'm not allowed to call myself what *I* want.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No, but i don't care. And I don't care what transwomen call themselves. I do care if I'm not allowed to call myself what *I* want."

It’s all about you

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why do certain people have to try to belittle others in the forum? No wonder new people get put off posting

Because ironically, those who like to repeatedly use the forum to post their SJW propaganda, their ignorant Anti Trump BS or other Flawed liberal ideologies are only tolerant as long as your opinions adhere to theirs. Best just to leave them to it and let them have their own fucktard echo chamber. Put facts or logic in front of these people and they lose their minds.

Oh I’m having that one as directed at me.

Also BB would back me up here and say it’s not an accurate description of me. But it amuses me if people like to project and pretend it is.

You're not an SJW, I don't think that comment was aimed at you. I did call someone an SJW above and i stand by that statement. "

I think it might have been aimed at me considering I have a thread about protesting Trump. But thank you nonetheless.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

Should Fallon Fox be allowed to compete in the women's division of MMA promotions? Is it fair on the cisgendered women if Fallon Fox does. Google and YouTube are your friend.

I’ve no idea who Fallon Fox is and even if I could be arsed to go and research because you told me to, and I can’t, it doesn’t negate my response to the OP on this thread. Now, you’re adding a different slant and context to the question, and I can’t really say I’m wholly interested in the sporting upset one way or another. It’s sport. *shrugs*

I’m arguing one or the other on it, I’m really not. I simply, personally, don’t care. Apologies.

It’s just sport? When a young girl wishes to play a sport professionally and realises there is no point as she was born with XX chromosomes and all the people winning have XY.

How’s that good for women?

You seem to be misinterpreting what I said. I didn’t say it’s just sport. I was specifically saying I’m not interested in sport because it’s sport - I’m not sporty, sorry. It’s not an area of knowledge I have! And I said I’m not arguing for the issue within the context of sport one way or another. So...

It matters to the women who play those sports though and if they have to compete with someone with the physical attributes of a man, they may just as well play against men, how is that fair.

I’m sure it does. Again, not clear where I’ve said it doesn’t."

Forget sport then. How about prisons?

How about 'Davina Ayrton', born David, jailed for offences against a girl of 15. Should Davina be in a womens prison or a men's prison?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No, but i don't care. And I don't care what transwomen call themselves. I do care if I'm not allowed to call myself what *I* want.

It’s all about you "

Not at all. I think it's about women and their continual battle.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *egasus NobMan
over a year ago

Merton


"My considered response is no. I believe people are the gender to which they are born "

Exactly

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"No, but i don't care. And I don't care what transwomen call themselves. I do care if I'm not allowed to call myself what *I* want.

It’s all about you

Not at all. I think it's about women and their continual battle."

Please give me your fallon fox opinion? It would be lovely to agree for once, pretty please?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No, but i don't care. And I don't care what transwomen call themselves. I do care if I'm not allowed to call myself what *I* want.

It’s all about you "

Having said that, you seem to like to stalk my posts, so you certainly appear to think it's all about me

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No, but i don't care. And I don't care what transwomen call themselves. I do care if I'm not allowed to call myself what *I* want.

It’s all about you

Not at all. I think it's about women and their continual battle."

Do you have empathy for anyone else other than women ?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Why do certain people have to try to belittle others in the forum? No wonder new people get put off posting

Because ironically, those who like to repeatedly use the forum to post their SJW propaganda, their ignorant Anti Trump BS or other Flawed liberal ideologies are only tolerant as long as your opinions adhere to theirs. Best just to leave them to it and let them have their own fucktard echo chamber. Put facts or logic in front of these people and they lose their minds.

Oh I’m having that one as directed at me.

Also BB would back me up here and say it’s not an accurate description of me. But it amuses me if people like to project and pretend it is.

You're not an SJW, I don't think that comment was aimed at you. I did call someone an SJW above and i stand by that statement.

I think it might have been aimed at me considering I have a thread about protesting Trump. But thank you nonetheless. "

And to be fair I was rude to you, which I know you know is teasing, but I appreciate probably looked awful from the outside. I must stop playing with your username.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’ve got a few trans friends.

I’ve only ever known them as how they identify. I never knew them before they transitioned from male to female.

So yeah, I acknowledge them as female, I call them she, her etc.

Cross dressers or transvestites are not female though.

I really believe fab should split TS from CD/TV

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

If John at work put a wig at night and become Joanna then its a no, they are gay crossdressing men.

"

Not all men who spend time dressed as women (without wanting the change or to be seen as female 24/7 are gay. Many tvs are hetro

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No, but i don't care. And I don't care what transwomen call themselves. I do care if I'm not allowed to call myself what *I* want.

It’s all about you

Having said that, you seem to like to stalk my posts, so you certainly appear to think it's all about me "

Hardly, I’ve commented on loads of post’s on this thread, have a look.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not a popular opinion but no Trans Women are not Women. There is so much to women or men for that matter to think a sex change means you understand of go through the same life experience as the opposite sex.

"

I hear what you're"saying" but life is complex, no two people have the same experiences, irrelevant of gender.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No, but i don't care. And I don't care what transwomen call themselves. I do care if I'm not allowed to call myself what *I* want.

It’s all about you

Not at all. I think it's about women and their continual battle.

Do you have empathy for anyone else other than women ?"

Just because men on fab have given me very little reason to like them, doesn't mean I don't like any men.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No, but i don't care. And I don't care what transwomen call themselves. I do care if I'm not allowed to call myself what *I* want.

It’s all about you

Having said that, you seem to like to stalk my posts, so you certainly appear to think it's all about me

Hardly, I’ve commented on loads of post’s on this thread, have a look."

Youre misunderstanding me. Deliberately I'm sure.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Currently there's a sign in London being projected onto a building saying, "Repeat after me, Transwomen are Wonen". I have a lot of trans friends and am not anti trans people at all but just wondered what both men and women on here felt about this currently contentious issue...?"
I believe you are what you are born I understand that the mind and the happiness or feelings of the people concerned and their influences in life make them feel happier living as a woman but the fact that doctors, cosmetic surgeons can change it doesn't alter the process of life, if changing makes them happy that's really fine by me and it has to be said some look amazing

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"No, but i don't care. And I don't care what transwomen call themselves. I do care if I'm not allowed to call myself what *I* want.

It’s all about you

Not at all. I think it's about women and their continual battle.

Do you have empathy for anyone else other than women ?

Just because men on fab have given me very little reason to like them, doesn't mean I don't like any men."

Well that’s something. Have a lovely evening, good night x

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?

Yes. A woman will not have a penis .

Putting a dress and make up does not make a man a woman. Women don't want penises. Except the ones who like fucking men with a strap on. We have penis envy.

I disagree.

Most definite. As for a guy in s dress. They might not identify as male. Know I don’t. Gender isn’t binary and you genitals don’t define your gender.

XX"

Nor do clothes, although they can act as a signifier.

This feels like the '80s debates about being gay. I hope we'll move on soon. How we feel about what we are is in our brains.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My considered response is no. I believe people are the gender to which they are born "

Gender is a nature-nurture matter of biology and socialisation. You're confusing gender with sex categorisation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

I totally understand your point. I’m happy to answer the question as posed by OP, and clarify how I’ve answered it, if anyone asked.

What I wasn’t prepared to accept was that in doing so I’m inherently *dramatic gasp* wrong for not drilling down the OP to be phrased with more detail. That’s my objection to BB.

Ask the OP.

Or set out your specific definitions and point to make, if you want to.

Should Fallon Fox be allowed to compete in the women's division of MMA promotions? Is it fair on the cisgendered women if Fallon Fox does. Google and YouTube are your friend.

I’ve no idea who Fallon Fox is and even if I could be arsed to go and research because you told me to, and I can’t, it doesn’t negate my response to the OP on this thread. Now, you’re adding a different slant and context to the question, and I can’t really say I’m wholly interested in the sporting upset one way or another. It’s sport. *shrugs*

I’m arguing one or the other on it, I’m really not. I simply, personally, don’t care. Apologies.

It’s just sport? When a young girl wishes to play a sport professionally and realises there is no point as she was born with XX chromosomes and all the people winning have XY.

How’s that good for women?

You seem to be misinterpreting what I said. I didn’t say it’s just sport. I was specifically saying I’m not interested in sport because it’s sport - I’m not sporty, sorry. It’s not an area of knowledge I have! And I said I’m not arguing for the issue within the context of sport one way or another. So...

It matters to the women who play those sports though and if they have to compete with someone with the physical attributes of a man, they may just as well play against men, how is that fair.

I’m sure it does. Again, not clear where I’ve said it doesn’t.

Forget sport then. How about prisons?

How about 'Davina Ayrton', born David, jailed for offences against a girl of 15. Should Davina be in a womens prison or a men's prison? "

Now that’s a superb question. And, as you know, is an area of interest/thought for me. I don’t have an off the cuff answer. For me it *has* to be individually risk assessed and I don’t know the specific case so I need to read up the factors to consider in terms of risk if she were in a female prison, because some risks may not be actual risks, and some could be minimised, removed etc. On the whole I would want someone identifying as female to be in a female prison. This would require more detail and some of which may not actually be available in public info. I’ll see what I can read up though.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *abulously curiousCouple
over a year ago

manchester

Absolutely... it's a very traumatic process these ladies go thru.. u are ur true self when u look into ur heart

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

If John at work put a wig at night and become Joanna then its a no, they are gay crossdressing men.

Not all men who spend time dressed as women (without wanting the change or to be seen as female 24/7 are gay. Many tvs are hetro"

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By *eesideMan
over a year ago

margate sumwear by the sea


"Currently there's a sign in London being projected onto a building saying, "Repeat after me, Transwomen are Wonen". I have a lot of trans friends and am not anti trans people at all but just wondered what both men and women on here felt about this currently contentious issue...?"

I dont normally post on these threads but I have 2 thorts on this.

A general and a personal.

Now don't reed this the rong way I'm not anti trans.

Generally. if sumone wants to change thar looks to the opposite sex then fill free to do it if that is wot makes them happy. I won't be trying to stop anyone.

But

personally thow. If your born a set gender no matter how mutch plastic surgery and oprashouns you have you will never be the real sex you try to change to.

Eg a man turns to a woman...

A real woman has pirouds can have kids and can make milk in thar brests. Medical fact.

The man turning in to a woman no matter wot plastic surgery thay have will never be able to do or have thos things. And its the same for a woman turning in to a man. Thay can look like a man but thay will never be able to make a woman pregnant un like a real man. These are just the facts.

So no. To me a trans man/woman is not a real man/woman. Thay are just transgender. If thay want to call them self's a man/woman then I'm not going to stop them and i wood speek to them as if thay are wot thay see them self's as but in my hed thay are just transgender. aka a guy in a dress ect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they believe they are a woman, then I will think of them as a woman to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Honestly, how can people be venturing answers to such a vague question!? What the fuck is wrong with people "

This.

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By *hickennchipsWoman
over a year ago

up above the streets and houses


"My considered response is no. I believe people are the gender to which they are born

Gender is a nature-nurture matter of biology and socialisation. You're confusing gender with sex categorisation."

No. I'm giving my opinion. I'm not confused

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/07/18 23:43:59]

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By *itvclaireTV/TS
over a year ago

Birmingham


"If they believe they are a woman, then I will think of them as a woman to."

If only everyone thought like this.

XX

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’ll leave you lot to continue your intellectual wank off.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Currently there's a sign in London being projected onto a building saying, "Repeat after me, Transwomen are Wonen". I have a lot of trans friends and am not anti trans people at all but just wondered what both men and women on here felt about this currently contentious issue...?"

If they've had full gender reassignment surgery, then yes I believe that. I'm not trying to cause arguments or deliberate offence. Just how I feel on that subject.

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan
over a year ago

Aberdeenshire


"For me a woman is a person who can give birth to another human, or am I way off ?!"

By that definition, anyone post menopause or infertile isn’t a woman.

.


"A woman is an adult female human being with a vagina, ovaries and so on."

Can you point me to that definition? Regarding the ‘and so on’, if someone has had a hysterectomy, are they no longer a women? What if someone is born with some abnormality, will they never be a woman?

.


"Baked potatoes were always potato’s, they weren’t apples and put on a little jacket, then asked everyone to call them a potato."

Are you talking about la pomme de terre?

.


"No. I'm giving my opinion. I'm not confused"

Your ‘opinion’ is informed by your confusion.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Currently there's a sign in London being projected onto a building saying, "Repeat after me, Transwomen are Wonen". I have a lot of trans friends and am not anti trans people at all but just wondered what both men and women on here felt about this currently contentious issue...?

I dont normally post on these threads but I have 2 thorts on this.

A general and a personal.

Now don't reed this the rong way I'm not anti trans.

Generally. if sumone wants to change thar looks to the opposite sex then fill free to do it if that is wot makes them happy. I won't be trying to stop anyone.

But

personally thow. If your born a set gender no matter how mutch plastic surgery and oprashouns you have you will never be the real sex you try to change to.

Eg a man turns to a woman...

A real woman has pirouds can have kids and can make milk in thar brests. Medical fact.

The man turning in to a woman no matter wot plastic surgery thay have will never be able to do or have thos things. And its the same for a woman turning in to a man. Thay can look like a man but thay will never be able to make a woman pregnant un like a real man. These are just the facts.

So no. To me a trans man/woman is not a real man/woman. Thay are just transgender. If thay want to call them self's a man/woman then I'm not going to stop them and i wood speek to them as if thay are wot thay see them self's as but in my hed thay are just transgender. aka a guy in a dress ect."

Your medical facts are wrong Seeside. Not all "real" women have periods/can conceive/ produce milk ie they can be infertile. Men can also be infertile. And a guy in a dress is a TV or CD.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"

How about 'Davina Ayrton', born David, jailed for offences against a girl of 15. Should Davina be in a womens prison or a men's prison?

Now that’s a superb question. And, as you know, is an area of interest/thought for me. I don’t have an off the cuff answer. For me it *has* to be individually risk assessed and I don’t know the specific case so I need to read up the factors to consider in terms of risk if she were in a female prison, because some risks may not be actual risks, and some could be minimised, removed etc. On the whole I would want someone identifying as female to be in a female prison. This would require more detail and some of which may not actually be available in public info. I’ll see what I can read up though. "

In theory i don't have a problem with that answer, but in practice I don't think it work. The problem is that rejecting the request is essentially denying the transition of the people turned down, which puts the emphasis on acceptance being the default.

Your answer is essentially what they've done in sport. In practice, it's degenerated to a bullshit test around testosterone levels which results in untalented trans competitors using raw strength to overpower cisgender females who are technically superior, hence why i recommend watching Fallon Fox fights on YouTube. Basically, they don't have the balls to say no to anyone.

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By *hickennchipsWoman
over a year ago

up above the streets and houses


"For me a woman is a person who can give birth to another human, or am I way off ?!

By that definition, anyone post menopause or infertile isn’t a woman.

.

A woman is an adult female human being with a vagina, ovaries and so on.

Can you point me to that definition? Regarding the ‘and so on’, if someone has had a hysterectomy, are they no longer a women? What if someone is born with some abnormality, will they never be a woman?

.

Baked potatoes were always potato’s, they weren’t apples and put on a little jacket, then asked everyone to call them a potato.

Are you talking about la pomme de terre?

.

No. I'm giving my opinion. I'm not confused

Your ‘opinion’ is informed by your confusion."

Your attempt to bait me will fail

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance? "

Define man at the same time then. Surely, the whole thread is about this space we are currently in where we are getting to new understanding and definitions?

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"My considered response is no. I believe people are the gender to which they are born

Gender is a nature-nurture matter of biology and socialisation. You're confusing gender with sex categorisation.

No. I'm giving my opinion. I'm not confused "

Ok then it is an uninformed one.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury


"Currently there's a sign in London being projected onto a building saying, "Repeat after me, Transwomen are Wonen". I have a lot of trans friends and am not anti trans people at all but just wondered what both men and women on here felt about this currently contentious issue...?"

Nope.

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By *hickennchipsWoman
over a year ago

up above the streets and houses


"My considered response is no. I believe people are the gender to which they are born

Gender is a nature-nurture matter of biology and socialisation. You're confusing gender with sex categorisation.

No. I'm giving my opinion. I'm not confused

Ok then it is an uninformed one."

It's my opinion, nobody has to agree. The world would be boring if we all agreed after all

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury


"What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?"

One thing i love is sucking on a big trans woman's cock before she bends me over and fucks me. Sooo nice when she fills my ass with her girl sperm! Mmmmmmm! Safe in the knowledge it had been a completely STRAIGHT sexual act.

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By *eesideMan
over a year ago

margate sumwear by the sea


"Currently there's a sign in London being projected onto a building saying, "Repeat after me, Transwomen are Wonen". I have a lot of trans friends and am not anti trans people at all but just wondered what both men and women on here felt about this currently contentious issue...?

I dont normally post on these threads but I have 2 thorts on this.

A general and a personal.

Now don't reed this the rong way I'm not anti trans.

Generally. if sumone wants to change thar looks to the opposite sex then fill free to do it if that is wot makes them happy. I won't be trying to stop anyone.

But

personally thow. If your born a set gender no matter how mutch plastic surgery and oprashouns you have you will never be the real sex you try to change to.

Eg a man turns to a woman...

A real woman has pirouds can have kids and can make milk in thar brests. Medical fact.

The man turning in to a woman no matter wot plastic surgery thay have will never be able to do or have thos things. And its the same for a woman turning in to a man. Thay can look like a man but thay will never be able to make a woman pregnant un like a real man. These are just the facts.

So no. To me a trans man/woman is not a real man/woman. Thay are just transgender. If thay want to call them self's a man/woman then I'm not going to stop them and i wood speek to them as if thay are wot thay see them self's as but in my hed thay are just transgender. aka a guy in a dress ect.

Your medical facts are wrong Seeside. Not all "real" women have periods/can conceive/ produce milk ie they can be infertile. Men can also be infertile. And a guy in a dress is a TV or CD."

I won't deniy that sum people can be infertile. But that to my is just extremely bad luck.

And i no a guy is a dress is a tv/cd but even if thay have had all the plastic surgery i still see a guy in a dress. Yes I'd treet them like a woman and talk to them like so but in my hed all i see is a guy in a dress.

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By *tace 309TV/TS
over a year ago

durham


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

For me a woman is a person who can give birth to another human, or am I way off ?!"
yes you are on the M1 heading North .destination Cardiff

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

Define man at the same time then. Surely, the whole thread is about this space we are currently in where we are getting to new understanding and definitions?

"

A biological man (distinct from the legal definition) has 3 or more of these characteristics:

Born with a penis,

High levels of testosterone relative to oestrogen,

Different chromosomes,

Does not have a womb,

Can produce sperm,

Neurological differences commonly called a 'male brain'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I’m sorry but a man who has an operation to become a woman isn’t a woman, it takes a flight of fantasy to think that they are. Biological it simply isn’t the case, however much you’d like to think so."

What are they then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Currently there's a sign in London being projected onto a building saying, "Repeat after me, Transwomen are Wonen". I have a lot of trans friends and am not anti trans people at all but just wondered what both men and women on here felt about this currently contentious issue...?

I dont normally post on these threads but I have 2 thorts on this.

A general and a personal.

Now don't reed this the rong way I'm not anti trans.

Generally. if sumone wants to change thar looks to the opposite sex then fill free to do it if that is wot makes them happy. I won't be trying to stop anyone.

But

personally thow. If your born a set gender no matter how mutch plastic surgery and oprashouns you have you will never be the real sex you try to change to.

Eg a man turns to a woman...

A real woman has pirouds can have kids and can make milk in thar brests. Medical fact.

The man turning in to a woman no matter wot plastic surgery thay have will never be able to do or have thos things. And its the same for a woman turning in to a man. Thay can look like a man but thay will never be able to make a woman pregnant un like a real man. These are just the facts.

So no. To me a trans man/woman is not a real man/woman. Thay are just transgender. If thay want to call them self's a man/woman then I'm not going to stop them and i wood speek to them as if thay are wot thay see them self's as but in my hed thay are just transgender. aka a guy in a dress ect.

Your medical facts are wrong Seeside. Not all "real" women have periods/can conceive/ produce milk ie they can be infertile. Men can also be infertile. And a guy in a dress is a TV or CD.

I won't deniy that sum people can be infertile. But that to my is just extremely bad luck.

And i no a guy is a dress is a tv/cd but even if thay have had all the plastic surgery i still see a guy in a dress. Yes I'd treet them like a woman and talk to them like so but in my hed all i see is a guy in a dress."

Just to add to this, I was born female and I don’t have periods, I can’t have kids and if by some miracle I did then I couldn’t lactate.

What about people with XXY chromosomes etc?

Personally, I believe it’s none of my business how people identify.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

How about 'Davina Ayrton', born David, jailed for offences against a girl of 15. Should Davina be in a womens prison or a men's prison?

Now that’s a superb question. And, as you know, is an area of interest/thought for me. I don’t have an off the cuff answer. For me it *has* to be individually risk assessed and I don’t know the specific case so I need to read up the factors to consider in terms of risk if she were in a female prison, because some risks may not be actual risks, and some could be minimised, removed etc. On the whole I would want someone identifying as female to be in a female prison. This would require more detail and some of which may not actually be available in public info. I’ll see what I can read up though.

In theory i don't have a problem with that answer, but in practice I don't think it work. The problem is that rejecting the request is essentially denying the transition of the people turned down, which puts the emphasis on acceptance being the default.

Your answer is essentially what they've done in sport. In practice, it's degenerated to a bullshit test around testosterone levels which results in untalented trans competitors using raw strength to overpower cisgender females who are technically superior, hence why i recommend watching Fallon Fox fights on YouTube. Basically, they don't have the balls to say no to anyone. "

Yes, but that’s not what individually risk assessing does within the prison and sex offender scenario. So move away from the sport and back to the prison.

 (closed, thread got too big)

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By *tace 309TV/TS
over a year ago

durham


"Currently there's a sign in London being projected onto a building saying, "Repeat after me, Transwomen are Wonen". I have a lot of trans friends and am not anti trans people at all but just wondered what both men and women on here felt about this currently contentious issue...?

I dont normally post on these threads but I have 2 thorts on this.

A general and a personal.

Now don't reed this the rong way I'm not anti trans.

Generally. if sumone wants to change thar looks to the opposite sex then fill free to do it if that is wot makes them happy. I won't be trying to stop anyone.

But

personally thow. If your born a set gender no matter how mutch plastic surgery and oprashouns you have you will never be the real sex you try to change to.

Eg a man turns to a woman...

A real woman has pirouds can have kids and can make milk in thar brests. Medical fact.

The man turning in to a woman no matter wot plastic surgery thay have will never be able to do or have thos things. And its the same for a woman turning in to a man. Thay can look like a man but thay will never be able to make a woman pregnant un like a real man. These are just the facts.

So no. To me a trans man/woman is not a real man/woman. Thay are just transgender. If thay want to call them self's a man/woman then I'm not going to stop them and i wood speek to them as if thay are wot thay see them self's as but in my hed thay are just transgender. aka a guy in a dress ect.

Your medical facts are wrong Seeside. Not all "real" women have periods/can conceive/ produce milk ie they can be infertile. Men can also be infertile. And a guy in a dress is a TV or CD.

I won't deniy that sum people can be infertile. But that to my is just extremely bad luck.

And i no a guy is a dress is a tv/cd but even if thay have had all the plastic surgery i still see a guy in a dress. Yes I'd treet them like a woman and talk to them like so but in my hed all i see is a guy in a dress."
should have gone to specsavers

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"

How about 'Davina Ayrton', born David, jailed for offences against a girl of 15. Should Davina be in a womens prison or a men's prison?

Now that’s a superb question. And, as you know, is an area of interest/thought for me. I don’t have an off the cuff answer. For me it *has* to be individually risk assessed and I don’t know the specific case so I need to read up the factors to consider in terms of risk if she were in a female prison, because some risks may not be actual risks, and some could be minimised, removed etc. On the whole I would want someone identifying as female to be in a female prison. This would require more detail and some of which may not actually be available in public info. I’ll see what I can read up though.

In theory i don't have a problem with that answer, but in practice I don't think it work. The problem is that rejecting the request is essentially denying the transition of the people turned down, which puts the emphasis on acceptance being the default.

Your answer is essentially what they've done in sport. In practice, it's degenerated to a bullshit test around testosterone levels which results in untalented trans competitors using raw strength to overpower cisgender females who are technically superior, hence why i recommend watching Fallon Fox fights on YouTube. Basically, they don't have the balls to say no to anyone.

Yes, but that’s not what individually risk assessing does within the prison and sex offender scenario. So move away from the sport and back to the prison. "

There was a headline that said half of male to female trans prisoners are sex offenders. I couldnt read the full article without subscribing so i don't know the source or accuracy of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance?

Define man at the same time then. Surely, the whole thread is about this space we are currently in where we are getting to new understanding and definitions?

A biological man (distinct from the legal definition) has 3 or more of these characteristics:

Born with a penis,

High levels of testosterone relative to oestrogen,

Different chromosomes,

Does not have a womb,

Can produce sperm,

Neurological differences commonly called a 'male brain'. "

My sleepy eyes read that as born with 3 penises and I perked up.

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By *egasus NobMan
over a year ago

Merton


"What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?

One thing i love is sucking on a big trans woman's cock before she bends me over and fucks me. Sooo nice when she fills my ass with her girl sperm! Mmmmmmm! Safe in the knowledge it had been a completely STRAIGHT sexual act. "

lol fab straight

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By *y Favorite PornstarCouple
over a year ago

Basingstoke


"

Define man at the same time then. Surely, the whole thread is about this space we are currently in where we are getting to new understanding and definitions?

A biological man (distinct from the legal definition) has 3 or more of these characteristics:

Born with a penis,

High levels of testosterone relative to oestrogen,

Different chromosomes,

Does not have a womb,

Can produce sperm,

Neurological differences commonly called a 'male brain'.

My sleepy eyes read that as born with 3 penises and I perked up. "

That's called a gangbang

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury


"What if they still have penises? Does that make a difference? And if you are a man do you consider them to be women?

One thing i love is sucking on a big trans woman's cock before she bends me over and fucks me. Sooo nice when she fills my ass with her girl sperm! Mmmmmmm! Safe in the knowledge it had been a completely STRAIGHT sexual act.

lol fab straight"

Nope. Legally straight. I stroked her shaft and sucked her full, juicy balls...

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By *ionicfingerMan
over a year ago

...

Born Male you still a Male even you have surgery.

Controversially correct

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can only imagine it's why the term 'transgender' was introduced to describe someone who identifies as the opposite sex to which they were born (in terms of physical characteristics).

I think transgender person who has adopted the physical characteristics and lifestyle of their preferred gender should then be identified as such.

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By *eesideMan
over a year ago

margate sumwear by the sea


"Currently there's a sign in London being projected onto a building saying, "Repeat after me, Transwomen are Wonen". I have a lot of trans friends and am not anti trans people at all but just wondered what both men and women on here felt about this currently contentious issue...?

I dont normally post on these threads but I have 2 thorts on this.

A general and a personal.

Now don't reed this the rong way I'm not anti trans.

Generally. if sumone wants to change thar looks to the opposite sex then fill free to do it if that is wot makes them happy. I won't be trying to stop anyone.

But

personally thow. If your born a set gender no matter how mutch plastic surgery and oprashouns you have you will never be the real sex you try to change to.

Eg a man turns to a woman...

A real woman has pirouds can have kids and can make milk in thar brests. Medical fact.

The man turning in to a woman no matter wot plastic surgery thay have will never be able to do or have thos things. And its the same for a woman turning in to a man. Thay can look like a man but thay will never be able to make a woman pregnant un like a real man. These are just the facts.

So no. To me a trans man/woman is not a real man/woman. Thay are just transgender. If thay want to call them self's a man/woman then I'm not going to stop them and i wood speek to them as if thay are wot thay see them self's as but in my hed thay are just transgender. aka a guy in a dress ect.

Your medical facts are wrong Seeside. Not all "real" women have periods/can conceive/ produce milk ie they can be infertile. Men can also be infertile. And a guy in a dress is a TV or CD.

I won't deniy that sum people can be infertile. But that to my is just extremely bad luck.

And i no a guy is a dress is a tv/cd but even if thay have had all the plastic surgery i still see a guy in a dress. Yes I'd treet them like a woman and talk to them like so but in my hed all i see is a guy in a dress.

Just to add to this, I was born female and I don’t have periods, I can’t have kids and if by some miracle I did then I couldn’t lactate.

What about people with XXY chromosomes etc?

Personally, I believe it’s none of my business how people identify."

We'll I fill very sorry for you to start with.

I'm Shor its not easy noing you carnt have kids ect.

As for XXY chromosomes.

I don't no wot that is or meens ?

And i have googled it. But i carnt make heds to tales of it

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By *egasus NobMan
over a year ago

Merton


"Not a popular opinion but no Trans Women are not Women. There is so much to women or men for that matter to think a sex change means you understand of go through the same life experience as the opposite sex.

I hear what you're"saying" but life is complex, no two people have the same experiences, irrelevant of gender."

Gender is very important to life experience from birth, especially during the teenage years. No boys can relate to teenage girls vice versa. I do agree no two people have the same experiences, irrelevant of gender however they will be similarities if you live around the same region.

Because a guy is dressed up in "women's'" clothing and chopped "his" dick off after does not mean is a woman.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Define man at the same time then. Surely, the whole thread is about this space we are currently in where we are getting to new understanding and definitions?

A biological man (distinct from the legal definition) has 3 or more of these characteristics:

Born with a penis,

High levels of testosterone relative to oestrogen,

Different chromosomes,

Does not have a womb,

Can produce sperm,

Neurological differences commonly called a 'male brain'.

My sleepy eyes read that as born with 3 penises and I perked up.

That's called a gangbang "

An alien. DP might be easier to perform

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By *hips n FursMan
over a year ago

Huddersfield


"My considered response is no. I believe people are the gender to which they are born "

Don't say that,I had dreams of becoming a unicorn one day.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

How about 'Davina Ayrton', born David, jailed for offences against a girl of 15. Should Davina be in a womens prison or a men's prison?

Now that’s a superb question. And, as you know, is an area of interest/thought for me. I don’t have an off the cuff answer. For me it *has* to be individually risk assessed and I don’t know the specific case so I need to read up the factors to consider in terms of risk if she were in a female prison, because some risks may not be actual risks, and some could be minimised, removed etc. On the whole I would want someone identifying as female to be in a female prison. This would require more detail and some of which may not actually be available in public info. I’ll see what I can read up though.

In theory i don't have a problem with that answer, but in practice I don't think it work. The problem is that rejecting the request is essentially denying the transition of the people turned down, which puts the emphasis on acceptance being the default.

Your answer is essentially what they've done in sport. In practice, it's degenerated to a bullshit test around testosterone levels which results in untalented trans competitors using raw strength to overpower cisgender females who are technically superior, hence why i recommend watching Fallon Fox fights on YouTube. Basically, they don't have the balls to say no to anyone.

Yes, but that’s not what individually risk assessing does within the prison and sex offender scenario. So move away from the sport and back to the prison.

There was a headline that said half of male to female trans prisoners are sex offenders. I couldnt read the full article without subscribing so i don't know the source or accuracy of it. "

Well, if we just take the instance of one male to female trans prisoner being a sex offender, I’m still not sure of your point in terms of where to incarcerate someone (there are cases of trans women incarcerated in male prisons taking their own lives) so it has to be individually assessed and managed. I think one issue in prison environments is also the underreporting of sexual assault simply because there is a general blind eye turned by the institution to any sexual liaisons (all of which are not allowed) which also increases the risk of how to safely manage someone who may have an impulse to assault. Also understanding the different sexual offences and risks attached. It’s not a simple answer. But I do think it starts with a default will to assess based on the gender the inmate presents as, and work through from there. Having recently done some work with one of the US leads on trauma informed gender responsive criminal settings, it’s a fascinating area. We have to evolve the prison setting adequately.

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By *tace 309TV/TS
over a year ago

durham


"Not a popular opinion but no Trans Women are not Women. There is so much to women or men for that matter to think a sex change means you understand of go through the same life experience as the opposite sex.

I hear what you're"saying" but life is complex, no two people have the same experiences, irrelevant of gender.

Gender is very important to life experience from birth, especially during the teenage years. No boys can relate to teenage girls vice versa. I do agree no two people have the same experiences, irrelevant of gender however they will be similarities if you live around the same region.

Because a guy is dressed up in "women's'" clothing and chopped "his" dick off after does not mean is a woman.

"
well what about all this gender neutral position that's going around now .basically you can be whatever you want to be . deal with it ....me i am who I am and if you can't deal with that then the doors over there

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not a popular opinion but no Trans Women are not Women. There is so much to women or men for that matter to think a sex change means you understand of go through the same life experience as the opposite sex.

I hear what you're"saying" but life is complex, no two people have the same experiences, irrelevant of gender.

Gender is very important to life experience from birth, especially during the teenage years. No boys can relate to teenage girls vice versa. I do agree no two people have the same experiences, irrelevant of gender however they will be similarities if you live around the same region.

Because a guy is dressed up in "women's'" clothing and chopped "his" dick off after does not mean is a woman.

"

Yes gender, being a social construct, is important to life experiences. If identical twin girls were separated at birth, one raised as girly and one raised as a boy - how would they identify? Anatomically they both become women, but how do they think or feel?

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

So nuture, not nature. Thought so.

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By *ubiousOatcakeMan
over a year ago

Aberdeenshire


"Your attempt to bait me will fail"

It’s not an attempt to bait you. It’s simply pointing out that your ‘opinion’ is a total misnomer, given that you’ve have either confused or never fully understood the terms your using. Which leads us to...


"It's my opinion, nobody has to agree. The world would be boring if we all agreed after all"

This belter, which has become the standard response of people who don’t know what they’re talking about. You’d be as well saying that nobody has to agree with your opinion that Nelson Mandella is a rocket ship. You don’t have an opinion. What you have is a string of words that don’t really mean anything.

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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago

Hereford


"If transwomen are women why calling them transwomen in the first place ?

Well if it was used to set the context of asking me of someone who felt they’d been incorrectly assigned at birth, then fine - call her woman as it was just to establish the question. If the trans woman was wanting to called a trans woman and did not want to be recognised as a woman without the use of the term trans, then that’s what I’d do too.

For me, it is how the individual would like to be recognised by me and I will do that in the way they direct me to. I don’t find any of that a headache.

I don't usually agree with BB, but he's absolutely right that before we can answer the question "are trans women, women" we need a definition of the term "woman".

As everyone probably knows, I am an old lefty, but I have never seen a definition of woman that isn't completely circular. ("a woman is someone who feels like a woman") or relies on gender stereotypes (someone who is empathetic, likes dresses and make up and so on).

I am quite willing to accept trans women are women if anyone can provide a reasonable definition of women.

Any chance? "

"Woman" is a human construct and therefore open to interpretation.

"Female" is the biological term and it's not really as straightforward as people think. Functionional females (ie ones that can, and have reproduced) can become male in response to environmental stimuli in many species (most notably fish), and will obviously still carry a pair of X chromosomes.

Hormones are powerful things and it is entirely legitimate that a male can develop female characteristics and vice versa depending upon variations thereof.

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By *lem-H-FandangoMan
over a year ago

salisbury

Hormone imbalance. Thought so

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