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"I think its sad a lot of guys on here and elsewhere feel the need to hide their sexuality out of fear. You are right..there are double standerds...bi women seen as hot bi men are not for whatever daft reason. I personally adore bi men...but then i get moaned at too for.apparantly fetishising them. Because yes bi men are a hige turn on for me and I love to watch bi giy play. But thats frowned upon too. Sigh. Its always going to be impossable for people to appeal to everybody and their is always going to be problems with people just getting along regardless of.sexuality, identity etc etc. Because at the end of the day people are stupid and society will always dicate what is fashionably acceptable. Well done you for being comfortable with yourself. Thats whats important x" I agree it's never going to be perfect. I just find it funny the amount of couples and women on here who are bi but will not meet bi men lol | |||
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"Unless they tell you, you won't know for sure why they don't want to meet bi men. Maybe the thought of 2 men together turns them off. " We do ask and have had many different reasons. The main ones mentioned above in the original post. | |||
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"I was talking about bi men with a female fabber the other day - and she doesn't meet Bi men because she doesn't like the thought of him not desiring her completely. X" So she only meets one to one then? | |||
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"None of the above bothers me. I find it hot that people are willing to explore all aspects of themselves, especially men, as like you say it is a harder thing for them to break out and do. "I agree and the reason I will not hide it is people like me for me or not at all. It took alot of heartache to be truthful about myself x | |||
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"I was talking about bi men with a female fabber the other day - and she doesn't meet Bi men because she doesn't like the thought of him not desiring her completely. X" That's an interesting thought but desire is infinite. You can desire many things at once x So would she have a ffm is the question lol | |||
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"Just be yourself and appreciate those who appreciate you OP. No point wasting your time on those who don't xx" I do the original post is about how bi men in general are seen in the lifestyle. | |||
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"I was talking about bi men with a female fabber the other day - and she doesn't meet Bi men because she doesn't like the thought of him not desiring her completely. X So she only meets one to one then? " She does now - I've met her with a male FB a couple of times. | |||
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"I was talking about bi men with a female fabber the other day - and she doesn't meet Bi men because she doesn't like the thought of him not desiring her completely. X That's an interesting thought but desire is infinite. You can desire many things at once x So would she have a ffm is the question lol" Yes - I've met her with a male FB. I kind if get it - it's not logical - but what women are  | |||
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"I was talking about bi men with a female fabber the other day - and she doesn't meet Bi men because she doesn't like the thought of him not desiring her completely. X So she only meets one to one then? She does now - I've met her with a male FB a couple of times. " And did you enjoy the threesome? | |||
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"I was talking about bi men with a female fabber the other day - and she doesn't meet Bi men because she doesn't like the thought of him not desiring her completely. X So she only meets one to one then? She does now - I've met her with a male FB a couple of times. And did you enjoy the threesome? "Yes - but I'd rather have a MFM I never have x | |||
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"It’s not fear at all. Men want their cake and eat it too. Most of the fab straight men that message me are in relationships with females but enjoy having sex with men or trans who have cocks. It’s not fear that’s just greed lol. There’s no reason to fear your sexuality in 2018. Seen more men in skirts and make up nowadays than women. " What's that got to do with being bi? There are plenty of straight men messaging women and straight women messaging men that are in relationships and playing away from home without permission as well. There are plenty of straight men who cross dress. When I was in a female rugby team I was excluded from the "gay" table because I am bi which apparently just meant I was greedy or confused. I am greedy but that isnt anything do with whom sexually attracted to. I do have a small amount of sympathy, in that I think quite a few gay women have experience with a bicurious woman who then decided they are straight after all. Also it's easier as a bi woman to date a man in terms of what is easier both socially and biologically for having children. I have seen some woman in here say they wouldn't meet a bi man because if he's had a blow job from another man than she could never live up to that. I'm pretty sure it's a myth that men give the best blowjobs. Seems to me it more about compatibility. Tink x | |||
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Certainly stirred up some painful memories for me about coming out as bi, something I've not completely done as yet. Even had a 2 year relationship with a woman that no one other than those very close to me know about, (and now you lovely lot).
There is so much stigma out there about any type of sexuality. My best friend a gay male faces less stigma than me as a bi female.
I'm not greedy, im just attracted to both sexes, its who I am, end of.
I await the day we live in a world we can just let people be who they are.
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"These are just my thoughts and ramblings. When Boo and myself first entered the world of swinging I was sent a message from a guy on here suggesting that I don't put myself down as Bi. When questioned about it he said that alot of people will not meet bi guys on here so it's better to just say your straight. This advice made me cringe, I went through years of abuse, self hate and addiction because I battled with my sexuality among other things. It was a liberating feeling when I finally accepted who I was and came out as bi. Even then I was outcast both in the straight community and the gay community for being bi. This was back in the early 90s and I honestly thought things were getting better. If you take into account 49% of 18 to 24 year olds now class themselves as something other than hetrosexual and more men are coming out as bi why does there seem to still be a major issue with bi erasure within swinging. Now I know alot of people are going to state it's about preference and my view on that is if we are excluded a whole group of people based on stigma and misconceptions then we really do need to change things and educate people. And stigma and misconceptions surrounding bisexuality are a major cause of bierasure in the swinging scene. Like the idea that bi men are more prone to infidelity and riskier sexual behaviour men. This one I smile at as when told this I point out that we are on a swingers site and that is about sleeping with others people. Or the idea that all bi men partake in unprotected sex. The same as swinging some do and some don't. Or that bi men are not manly. Now any of our friends on here will vouch that I am an alpha male and an experienced Dom within the kink scene. A non straight sexuality does not equal being less of a man. My favourite that a bi man is going to jump any man they play with. Now if you have played with someone that has broken boundaries this has nothing to do with their sexuality. It has everything to do with them being an ass and idiot. Also there are major double standards at play, Bisexual women tend to be sexualised, with bisexuality regarded as something that women do for the pleasure of men, the fantasy of two women all you have to do is look at mainstream porn Bi sexual men tend to be seen as a perverted, unnatural, dirty desease ridden, not to be trusted to stick to boundaries. These occurrences of daily biphobia and bi erasure can generate a very complicated scenario to land in for those coming to terms with their sexuality today, for someone of any gender. By creating a community where it is better to hide who you are than be accepted, means that anyone you may meet a at a club etc on a meet you will never truly be sure if they are straight or not. The amount of messages we get from men saying they are bi but do not want others on fab to know, tells me this is a major issue. Now is it any wonder that women are twice as likely to identify as bisexual or bi curious than men. If this because there are less men that question their sexuality or is it because men are simply scared to identify as bi or go outside of the gay-or-straight binary because of social expectations – like the expectation that a man's masculinity is contingent on his heterosexuality. We try to take each couple on face value we chat and see how we get on. If we get on well we have a social. If we get on great we have more. Be they straight, bi, black, green, orange whatever. Try and see the person not the label. Who knows you may meet some amazing people that you would never of got to known. MT" Can I just say thank you OP for this post. I agree with everything that you’ve written. I started a thread a few weeks ago on a similar vein and received many positive posts. It took me a long time to come to terms with my sexuality and to recognise the person that I am and it’s heartening to read that others feel the same. Biphobia towards guys and hypocrisy is sadly rife in all walks of life, not just in swinging. Actually the worst abuse I’ve received has been from the gay community which is something that I didn’t expect. | |||
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"I have seen some woman in here say they wouldn't meet a bi man because if he's had a blow job from another man than she could never live up to that. I'm pretty sure it's a myth that men give the best blowjobs. Seems to me it more about compatibility. Tink x " As the old joke goes "Describe the worst blowjob you ever had? FANTASTIC! “ I don't normally compare the person trying to pleasure me, with previous partners. | |||
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"These are just my thoughts and ramblings. When Boo and myself first entered the world of swinging I was sent a message from a guy on here suggesting that I don't put myself down as Bi. When questioned about it he said that alot of people will not meet bi guys on here so it's better to just say your straight. This advice made me cringe, I went through years of abuse, self hate and addiction because I battled with my sexuality among other things. It was a liberating feeling when I finally accepted who I was and came out as bi. Even then I was outcast both in the straight community and the gay community for being bi. This was back in the early 90s and I honestly thought things were getting better. If you take into account 49% of 18 to 24 year olds now class themselves as something other than hetrosexual and more men are coming out as bi why does there seem to still be a major issue with bi erasure within swinging. Now I know alot of people are going to state it's about preference and my view on that is if we are excluded a whole group of people based on stigma and misconceptions then we really do need to change things and educate people. And stigma and misconceptions surrounding bisexuality are a major cause of bierasure in the swinging scene. Like the idea that bi men are more prone to infidelity and riskier sexual behaviour men. This one I smile at as when told this I point out that we are on a swingers site and that is about sleeping with others people. Or the idea that all bi men partake in unprotected sex. The same as swinging some do and some don't. Or that bi men are not manly. Now any of our friends on here will vouch that I am an alpha male and an experienced Dom within the kink scene. A non straight sexuality does not equal being less of a man. My favourite that a bi man is going to jump any man they play with. Now if you have played with someone that has broken boundaries this has nothing to do with their sexuality. It has everything to do with them being an ass and idiot. Also there are major double standards at play, Bisexual women tend to be sexualised, with bisexuality regarded as something that women do for the pleasure of men, the fantasy of two women all you have to do is look at mainstream porn Bi sexual men tend to be seen as a perverted, unnatural, dirty desease ridden, not to be trusted to stick to boundaries. These occurrences of daily biphobia and bi erasure can generate a very complicated scenario to land in for those coming to terms with their sexuality today, for someone of any gender. By creating a community where it is better to hide who you are than be accepted, means that anyone you may meet a at a club etc on a meet you will never truly be sure if they are straight or not. The amount of messages we get from men saying they are bi but do not want others on fab to know, tells me this is a major issue. Now is it any wonder that women are twice as likely to identify as bisexual or bi curious than men. If this because there are less men that question their sexuality or is it because men are simply scared to identify as bi or go outside of the gay-or-straight binary because of social expectations – like the expectation that a man's masculinity is contingent on his heterosexuality. We try to take each couple on face value we chat and see how we get on. If we get on well we have a social. If we get on great we have more. Be they straight, bi, black, green, orange whatever. Try and see the person not the label. Who knows you may meet some amazing people that you would never of got to known. MT Can I just say thank you OP for this post. I agree with everything that you’ve written. I started a thread a few weeks ago on a similar vein and received many positive posts. It took me a long time to come to terms with my sexuality and to recognise the person that I am and it’s heartening to read that others feel the same. Biphobia towards guys and hypocrisy is sadly rife in all walks of life, not just in swinging. Actually the worst abuse I’ve received has been from the gay community which is something that I didn’t expect. " I’ve never encountered any biphobia form the gay community and I’m out in the gay community every other weekend. I shall be wearing my bisexual guys have all the fun tshirt at pride this Saturday in London | |||
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"These are just my thoughts and ramblings. When Boo and myself first entered the world of swinging I was sent a message from a guy on here suggesting that I don't put myself down as Bi. When questioned about it he said that alot of people will not meet bi guys on here so it's better to just say your straight. This advice made me cringe, I went through years of abuse, self hate and addiction because I battled with my sexuality among other things. It was a liberating feeling when I finally accepted who I was and came out as bi. Even then I was outcast both in the straight community and the gay community for being bi. This was back in the early 90s and I honestly thought things were getting better. If you take into account 49% of 18 to 24 year olds now class themselves as something other than hetrosexual and more men are coming out as bi why does there seem to still be a major issue with bi erasure within swinging. Now I know alot of people are going to state it's about preference and my view on that is if we are excluded a whole group of people based on stigma and misconceptions then we really do need to change things and educate people. And stigma and misconceptions surrounding bisexuality are a major cause of bierasure in the swinging scene. Like the idea that bi men are more prone to infidelity and riskier sexual behaviour men. This one I smile at as when told this I point out that we are on a swingers site and that is about sleeping with others people. Or the idea that all bi men partake in unprotected sex. The same as swinging some do and some don't. Or that bi men are not manly. Now any of our friends on here will vouch that I am an alpha male and an experienced Dom within the kink scene. A non straight sexuality does not equal being less of a man. My favourite that a bi man is going to jump any man they play with. Now if you have played with someone that has broken boundaries this has nothing to do with their sexuality. It has everything to do with them being an ass and idiot. Also there are major double standards at play, Bisexual women tend to be sexualised, with bisexuality regarded as something that women do for the pleasure of men, the fantasy of two women all you have to do is look at mainstream porn Bi sexual men tend to be seen as a perverted, unnatural, dirty desease ridden, not to be trusted to stick to boundaries. These occurrences of daily biphobia and bi erasure can generate a very complicated scenario to land in for those coming to terms with their sexuality today, for someone of any gender. By creating a community where it is better to hide who you are than be accepted, means that anyone you may meet a at a club etc on a meet you will never truly be sure if they are straight or not. The amount of messages we get from men saying they are bi but do not want others on fab to know, tells me this is a major issue. Now is it any wonder that women are twice as likely to identify as bisexual or bi curious than men. If this because there are less men that question their sexuality or is it because men are simply scared to identify as bi or go outside of the gay-or-straight binary because of social expectations – like the expectation that a man's masculinity is contingent on his heterosexuality. We try to take each couple on face value we chat and see how we get on. If we get on well we have a social. If we get on great we have more. Be they straight, bi, black, green, orange whatever. Try and see the person not the label. Who knows you may meet some amazing people that you would never of got to known. MT Can I just say thank you OP for this post. I agree with everything that you’ve written. I started a thread a few weeks ago on a similar vein and received many positive posts. It took me a long time to come to terms with my sexuality and to recognise the person that I am and it’s heartening to read that others feel the same. Biphobia towards guys and hypocrisy is sadly rife in all walks of life, not just in swinging. Actually the worst abuse I’ve received has been from the gay community which is something that I didn’t expect. I’ve never encountered any biphobia form the gay community and I’m out in the gay community every other weekend. I shall be wearing my bisexual guys have all the fun tshirt at pride this Saturday in London " It was coming out in the 1990s that I had the issue x it's alot better now x | |||
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"These are just my thoughts and ramblings. When Boo and myself first entered the world of swinging I was sent a message from a guy on here suggesting that I don't put myself down as Bi. When questioned about it he said that alot of people will not meet bi guys on here so it's better to just say your straight. This advice made me cringe, I went through years of abuse, self hate and addiction because I battled with my sexuality among other things. It was a liberating feeling when I finally accepted who I was and came out as bi. Even then I was outcast both in the straight community and the gay community for being bi. This was back in the early 90s and I honestly thought things were getting better. If you take into account 49% of 18 to 24 year olds now class themselves as something other than hetrosexual and more men are coming out as bi why does there seem to still be a major issue with bi erasure within swinging. Now I know alot of people are going to state it's about preference and my view on that is if we are excluded a whole group of people based on stigma and misconceptions then we really do need to change things and educate people. And stigma and misconceptions surrounding bisexuality are a major cause of bierasure in the swinging scene. Like the idea that bi men are more prone to infidelity and riskier sexual behaviour men. This one I smile at as when told this I point out that we are on a swingers site and that is about sleeping with others people. Or the idea that all bi men partake in unprotected sex. The same as swinging some do and some don't. Or that bi men are not manly. Now any of our friends on here will vouch that I am an alpha male and an experienced Dom within the kink scene. A non straight sexuality does not equal being less of a man. My favourite that a bi man is going to jump any man they play with. Now if you have played with someone that has broken boundaries this has nothing to do with their sexuality. It has everything to do with them being an ass and idiot. Also there are major double standards at play, Bisexual women tend to be sexualised, with bisexuality regarded as something that women do for the pleasure of men, the fantasy of two women all you have to do is look at mainstream porn Bi sexual men tend to be seen as a perverted, unnatural, dirty desease ridden, not to be trusted to stick to boundaries. These occurrences of daily biphobia and bi erasure can generate a very complicated scenario to land in for those coming to terms with their sexuality today, for someone of any gender. By creating a community where it is better to hide who you are than be accepted, means that anyone you may meet a at a club etc on a meet you will never truly be sure if they are straight or not. The amount of messages we get from men saying they are bi but do not want others on fab to know, tells me this is a major issue. Now is it any wonder that women are twice as likely to identify as bisexual or bi curious than men. If this because there are less men that question their sexuality or is it because men are simply scared to identify as bi or go outside of the gay-or-straight binary because of social expectations – like the expectation that a man's masculinity is contingent on his heterosexuality. We try to take each couple on face value we chat and see how we get on. If we get on well we have a social. If we get on great we have more. Be they straight, bi, black, green, orange whatever. Try and see the person not the label. Who knows you may meet some amazing people that you would never of got to known. MT Can I just say thank you OP for this post. I agree with everything that you’ve written. I started a thread a few weeks ago on a similar vein and received many positive posts. It took me a long time to come to terms with my sexuality and to recognise the person that I am and it’s heartening to read that others feel the same. Biphobia towards guys and hypocrisy is sadly rife in all walks of life, not just in swinging. Actually the worst abuse I’ve received has been from the gay community which is something that I didn’t expect. I’ve never encountered any biphobia form the gay community and I’m out in the gay community every other weekend. I shall be wearing my bisexual guys have all the fun tshirt at pride this Saturday in London " Personally I think that’s great and it’s not a slur on the gay community but I’ve had awful abuse on Grindr and in person from gay men for being ‘confused’, ‘disgusting’ and for ‘taking their men’. I’m proud of my sexuality, almost to the point of militancy and I love reading about others that are proud too. I’m only relating my experiences. | |||
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"I describe myself as straight and or gay. Not bi I'm nothing like the bi guys I've met I like women or men not both together as most bi guys want I've had lots and lots of straight mmfs and have never even looked at the other guy its been all about the girl But when I'm with a guy I like it very gay,with a gay guy doing hardcore,to me,gay things Out of the options gay,straight or bi the only one I don't feel is bi so why describe myself as that" Er, cause you like both and that’s the definition. | |||
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"I describe myself as straight and or gay. Not bi I'm nothing like the bi guys I've met I like women or men not both together as most bi guys want I've had lots and lots of straight mmfs and have never even looked at the other guy its been all about the girl But when I'm with a guy I like it very gay,with a gay guy doing hardcore,to me,gay things Out of the options gay,straight or bi the only one I don't feel is bi so why describe myself as that Er, cause you like both and that’s the definition." Not my definition We live in gender fluid times fella I can describe myself how ever I feel | |||
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"I describe myself as straight and or gay. Not bi I'm nothing like the bi guys I've met I like women or men not both together as most bi guys want I've had lots and lots of straight mmfs and have never even looked at the other guy its been all about the girl But when I'm with a guy I like it very gay,with a gay guy doing hardcore,to me,gay things Out of the options gay,straight or bi the only one I don't feel is bi so why describe myself as that Er, cause you like both and that’s the definition. Not my definition We live in gender fluid times fella I can describe myself how ever I feel" Yes we do live in gender fluid times but gender and sexuality are two different things. Also I would disagree with the most bi men comment. I know many many bi men who enjoy one on one time and not group play at all. Bi sexuality is about who you find sexually attractive. If you find your attractive to the two CSI genders then you would be classed as bi no matter if you did not sleep with both csi genders | |||
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"I describe myself as straight and or gay. Not bi I'm nothing like the bi guys I've met I like women or men not both together as most bi guys want I've had lots and lots of straight mmfs and have never even looked at the other guy its been all about the girl But when I'm with a guy I like it very gay,with a gay guy doing hardcore,to me,gay things Out of the options gay,straight or bi the only one I don't feel is bi so why describe myself as that Er, cause you like both and that’s the definition. Not my definition We live in gender fluid times fella I can describe myself how ever I feel Yes we do live in gender fluid times but gender and sexuality are two different things. Also I would disagree with the most bi men comment. I know many many bi men who enjoy one on one time and not group play at all. Bi sexuality is about who you find sexually attractive. If you find your attractive to the two CSI genders then you would be classed as bi no matter if you did not sleep with both csi genders " I said gender fluid to show how tolerant society is now to how people view themselves not comparing I'm an intelligent enough middle age almost man I know who I am I describe myself as gay and or straight and if anyone has a problem with that that's too bad | |||
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"I was talking about bi men with a female fabber the other day - and she doesn't meet Bi men because she doesn't like the thought of him not desiring her completely. X" Never thought about it like that. Definitely not the case personally, kind of get what she’s saying. XX | |||
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"I describe myself as straight and or gay. Not bi I'm nothing like the bi guys I've met I like women or men not both together as most bi guys want I've had lots and lots of straight mmfs and have never even looked at the other guy its been all about the girl But when I'm with a guy I like it very gay,with a gay guy doing hardcore,to me,gay things Out of the options gay,straight or bi the only one I don't feel is bi so why describe myself as that Er, cause you like both and that’s the definition. Not my definition We live in gender fluid times fella I can describe myself how ever I feel" I spilt gender fluid on my carpet once, hell of a job to get it out. | |||
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"A. Well thought out debate, I am living and swinging with my partner a full time TV, we like men and women and play with both. Now does that make us gay, straight or bi.?" Your profile would describe you as bi TVs. Two hot bi tvs | |||
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"I describe myself as straight and or gay. Not bi I'm nothing like the bi guys I've met I like women or men not both together as most bi guys want I've had lots and lots of straight mmfs and have never even looked at the other guy its been all about the girl But when I'm with a guy I like it very gay,with a gay guy doing hardcore,to me,gay things Out of the options gay,straight or bi the only one I don't feel is bi so why describe myself as that Er, cause you like both and that’s the definition. Not my definition We live in gender fluid times fella I can describe myself how ever I feel I spilt gender fluid on my carpet once, hell of a job to get it out." It’s what curtains are for, dude. | |||
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"A. Well thought out debate, I am living and swinging with my partner a full time TV, we like men and women and play with both. Now does that make us gay, straight or bi.? Your profile would describe you as bi TVs. Two hot bi tvs" Thank you darling. | |||
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"I describe myself as straight and or gay. Not bi I'm nothing like the bi guys I've met I like women or men not both together as most bi guys want I've had lots and lots of straight mmfs and have never even looked at the other guy its been all about the girl But when I'm with a guy I like it very gay,with a gay guy doing hardcore,to me,gay things Out of the options gay,straight or bi the only one I don't feel is bi so why describe myself as that Er, cause you like both and that’s the definition. Not my definition We live in gender fluid times fella I can describe myself how ever I feel I spilt gender fluid on my carpet once, hell of a job to get it out." 
Keep rubbing it
On a serious note I think its great my kids can have openly gender fluid friends in Hicksville here and not bat an eyelid
In my day they would prob have lived repressed depressed lives at risk of suicide
But that's besides the point of rhe ops thread | |||
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"OP you are totally right ! Amazing post ! Thank you ! Another day at my local updates had this guy he was bi curious but yet expert in deep throat and meet a lot of guys ! Another described as straight but was looking for cock ! Not what they are bothers me ! Is their transparency ! Xxxx " That's what gets me if people are open and honest about things it will become more acceptable. | |||
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"For me, bi guys are just  "I think I know of a guy that might fit that description  | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. " Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. " I don't think anyone has said that people don't have a right to express preferences in that regard or that some of the reasons behind those preferences are necessarily irrational - I certainly respect the preferences of those who choose not to meet bisexual men (so long as their reasons are not based on bigotry or ignorance) preferring to focus my attentions on those that will. Where I do take issue though is with some of the points I raised in my earlier post around the general acceptance of bisexual men by comparison to bisexual women - not so much with people not wanting to play/meet us but accepting us as existing as part of the overall scene at clubs etc. | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. " Irrelevant " Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. " It's still there " The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. " Irrelevant " The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. " Strawman " Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. " Irrelevant " In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live." Irrelevant | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant " How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant " Why are fact relevant when you say but not when others say | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant Why are fact relevant when you say but not when others say" True or false, men who fuck men are disproportionately represented in the population of the UK that live with HIV? | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. " There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. " Everything apart from you perception seems to be irrelevant lol troll or homophobic... If you meet straight guys from fab you've probably met a bi guy without knowing and that includes guys who are part of a couple, ask any tgirl how many straight guys and couples want to play with them... Have fun with your fab straight guys lol And if you practice safe sex, then the risk is negated, at least to a very low level. Straight people are still at risk if they practice unsafe sex. All statistics are irrelevant apart from the one you want to believe, which makes everything you say irrelevant... If 49% of youngsters don't identify as 100% straight that's a very large percentage that are have same sex fun. all irrelevant though eh | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. " Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. " And this was what I was getting at. Thank you | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. " Wow, maths really isn't your strong point  | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. And this was what I was getting at. Thank you " Or yours apparently | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. Wow, maths really isn't your strong point "Even only a 8 | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. Wow, maths really isn't your strong point
Even only a 8"Even an 8% difference is a low gap. And goes to show that STDs is in all areas of society not just the LGBT community | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. Wow, maths really isn't your strong point
Even only a 8
Even an 8% difference is a low gap. And goes to show that STDs is in all areas of society not just the LGBT community "No it just shows you can't do simple maths | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. Wow, maths really isn't your strong point
Even only a 8
Even an 8% difference is a low gap. And goes to show that STDs is in all areas of society not just the LGBT community
No it just shows you can't do simple maths "So because you have been given facts to argue against your post you are resorting to insults. If you notice it was not even my post. | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. Wow, maths really isn't your strong point
Even only a 8
Even an 8% difference is a low gap. And goes to show that STDs is in all areas of society not just the LGBT community
No it just shows you can't do simple maths
So because you have been given facts to argue against your post you are resorting to insults.
If you notice it was not even my post.
"It's not an insult, it's a simple statement of fact based on what is written. | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. Wow, maths really isn't your strong point
Even only a 8
Even an 8% difference is a low gap. And goes to show that STDs is in all areas of society not just the LGBT community
No it just shows you can't do simple maths
So because you have been given facts to argue against your post you are resorting to insults.
If you notice it was not even my post.
It's not an insult, it's a simple statement of fact based on what is written. "And you never make mistakes. And you aimed the comment at me. In the long run if all you can say to a factual response to your comment is irrelevant then your not even worth the time to discuss the issue with. | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. Wow, maths really isn't your strong point
Even only a 8
Even an 8% difference is a low gap. And goes to show that STDs is in all areas of society not just the LGBT community
No it just shows you can't do simple maths
So because you have been given facts to argue against your post you are resorting to insults.
If you notice it was not even my post.
It's not an insult, it's a simple statement of fact based on what is written.
And you never make mistakes. And you aimed the comment at me.
In the long run if all you can say to a factual response to your comment is irrelevant then your not even worth the time to discuss the issue with.
"How about I ask you the question you avoided once before. True or false, men who fuck men are disproportionately represented in the population of the UK that live with HIV? | |||
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"These are just my thoughts and ramblings. When Boo and myself first entered the world of swinging I was sent a message from a guy on here suggesting that I don't put myself down as Bi. When questioned about it he said that alot of people will not meet bi guys on here so it's better to just say your straight. This advice made me cringe, I went through years of abuse, self hate and addiction because I battled with my sexuality among other things. It was a liberating feeling when I finally accepted who I was and came out as bi. Even then I was outcast both in the straight community and the gay community for being bi. This was back in the early 90s and I honestly thought things were getting better. If you take into account 49% of 18 to 24 year olds now class themselves as something other than hetrosexual and more men are coming out as bi why does there seem to still be a major issue with bi erasure within swinging. Now I know alot of people are going to state it's about preference and my view on that is if we are excluded a whole group of people based on stigma and misconceptions then we really do need to change things and educate people. And stigma and misconceptions surrounding bisexuality are a major cause of bierasure in the swinging scene. Like the idea that bi men are more prone to infidelity and riskier sexual behaviour men. This one I smile at as when told this I point out that we are on a swingers site and that is about sleeping with others people. Or the idea that all bi men partake in unprotected sex. The same as swinging some do and some don't. Or that bi men are not manly. Now any of our friends on here will vouch that I am an alpha male and an experienced Dom within the kink scene. A non straight sexuality does not equal being less of a man. My favourite that a bi man is going to jump any man they play with. Now if you have played with someone that has broken boundaries this has nothing to do with their sexuality. It has everything to do with them being an ass and idiot. Also there are major double standards at play, Bisexual women tend to be sexualised, with bisexuality regarded as something that women do for the pleasure of men, the fantasy of two women all you have to do is look at mainstream porn Bi sexual men tend to be seen as a perverted, unnatural, dirty desease ridden, not to be trusted to stick to boundaries. These occurrences of daily biphobia and bi erasure can generate a very complicated scenario to land in for those coming to terms with their sexuality today, for someone of any gender. By creating a community where it is better to hide who you are than be accepted, means that anyone you may meet a at a club etc on a meet you will never truly be sure if they are straight or not. The amount of messages we get from men saying they are bi but do not want others on fab to know, tells me this is a major issue. Now is it any wonder that women are twice as likely to identify as bisexual or bi curious than men. If this because there are less men that question their sexuality or is it because men are simply scared to identify as bi or go outside of the gay-or-straight binary because of social expectations – like the expectation that a man's masculinity is contingent on his heterosexuality. We try to take each couple on face value we chat and see how we get on. If we get on well we have a social. If we get on great we have more. Be they straight, bi, black, green, orange whatever. Try and see the person not the label. Who knows you may meet some amazing people that you would never of got to known. MT" No one should ever feel they have to hide their true self but here we are in 2018 and prejudice and ignorance are alive and sadly well. Makes me feel sad to know that its from (for want of a better expression) both sides of the fence. One day people will wake up and realise that we all are as valuable and worthy of love as each other regardless of conditions,I truly believe that, although I strongly doubt it'll be in my lifetime. I meet effeminate men and masculine women and everyone in between every day of my life - everyone is so very different and that's something that should be celebrated not denigrated. Someone take this phone from me. G xx | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. Wow, maths really isn't your strong point
Even only a 8
Even an 8% difference is a low gap. And goes to show that STDs is in all areas of society not just the LGBT community
No it just shows you can't do simple maths
So because you have been given facts to argue against your post you are resorting to insults.
If you notice it was not even my post.
It's not an insult, it's a simple statement of fact based on what is written.
And you never make mistakes. And you aimed the comment at me.
In the long run if all you can say to a factual response to your comment is irrelevant then your not even worth the time to discuss the issue with.
How about I ask you the question you avoided once before.
True or false, men who fuck men are disproportionately represented in the population of the UK that live with HIV?"An estimated 101,200 people are living with HIV in the UK. Of those, 69% are men and 31% were women.[2] Just under half of those living with HIV are gay or bisexual men. Public health England | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. Wow, maths really isn't your strong point
Even only a 8
Even an 8% difference is a low gap. And goes to show that STDs is in all areas of society not just the LGBT community
No it just shows you can't do simple maths
So because you have been given facts to argue against your post you are resorting to insults.
If you notice it was not even my post.
It's not an insult, it's a simple statement of fact based on what is written.
And you never make mistakes. And you aimed the comment at me.
In the long run if all you can say to a factual response to your comment is irrelevant then your not even worth the time to discuss the issue with.
How about I ask you the question you avoided once before.
True or false, men who fuck men are disproportionately represented in the population of the UK that live with HIV?
An estimated 101,200 people are living with HIV in the UK. Of those, 69% are men and 31% were women.[2] Just under half of those living with HIV are gay or bisexual men. Public health England "Sorry was that a yes or a no? | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. Wow, maths really isn't your strong point
Even only a 8
Even an 8% difference is a low gap. And goes to show that STDs is in all areas of society not just the LGBT community
No it just shows you can't do simple maths
So because you have been given facts to argue against your post you are resorting to insults.
If you notice it was not even my post.
It's not an insult, it's a simple statement of fact based on what is written.
And you never make mistakes. And you aimed the comment at me.
In the long run if all you can say to a factual response to your comment is irrelevant then your not even worth the time to discuss the issue with.
How about I ask you the question you avoided once before.
True or false, men who fuck men are disproportionately represented in the population of the UK that live with HIV?
An estimated 101,200 people are living with HIV in the UK. Of those, 69% are men and 31% were women.[2] Just under half of those living with HIV are gay or bisexual men. Public health England
Sorry was that a yes or a no? "That's a no it's an issue over all sexualities x just under half of those that have hiv are bi or gay. That means over half class themselves as non bi or gay | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. Wow, maths really isn't your strong point
Even only a 8
Even an 8% difference is a low gap. And goes to show that STDs is in all areas of society not just the LGBT community
No it just shows you can't do simple maths
So because you have been given facts to argue against your post you are resorting to insults.
If you notice it was not even my post.
It's not an insult, it's a simple statement of fact based on what is written.
And you never make mistakes. And you aimed the comment at me.
In the long run if all you can say to a factual response to your comment is irrelevant then your not even worth the time to discuss the issue with.
How about I ask you the question you avoided once before.
True or false, men who fuck men are disproportionately represented in the population of the UK that live with HIV?
An estimated 101,200 people are living with HIV in the UK. Of those, 69% are men and 31% were women.[2] Just under half of those living with HIV are gay or bisexual men. Public health England
Sorry was that a yes or a no?
That's a no it's an issue over all sexualities x just under half of those that have hiv are bi or gay. That means over half class themselves as non bi or gay"I stand by my previous statements about maths. | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant How are those things irrelevant? How many 'straight' people that fuck around get tested? Many think sti's are something that someone else gets. Whenever I go to get tested the place is empty. They reduced the times of the local sti clinic because no-one was going. They could all be riddled and never know. They won't show up in the statistics. There are decent estimates of undiagnosed cases. Of the 5,164 people diagnosed with HIV in the UK in 2016, 54% were gay or bisexual men. What about the other 46% lol the figures are much closer than you'd like to admit though... 4% in it... and 40% live in London. Wow, maths really isn't your strong point
Even only a 8
Even an 8% difference is a low gap. And goes to show that STDs is in all areas of society not just the LGBT community
No it just shows you can't do simple maths
So because you have been given facts to argue against your post you are resorting to insults.
If you notice it was not even my post.
It's not an insult, it's a simple statement of fact based on what is written.
And you never make mistakes. And you aimed the comment at me.
In the long run if all you can say to a factual response to your comment is irrelevant then your not even worth the time to discuss the issue with.
How about I ask you the question you avoided once before.
True or false, men who fuck men are disproportionately represented in the population of the UK that live with HIV?
An estimated 101,200 people are living with HIV in the UK. Of those, 69% are men and 31% were women.[2] Just under half of those living with HIV are gay or bisexual men. Public health England
Sorry was that a yes or a no?
That's a no it's an issue over all sexualities x just under half of those that have hiv are bi or gay. That means over half class themselves as non bi or gay
I stand by my previous statements about maths. "No issues with maths there. Just under half means just over half class themselves as non bi or gay. Where is your issue with that | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man?" I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men). | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men)."As the op I understand where you are coming from. But this misconception about stds is one of the major issues bi men have. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men)."I haven’t seen their profile. All a bit odd in that case | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men)."Better acceptance won't happen by screaming 'homophobic' when someone makes a statements of fact or lying about those facts. It'll come if people can be honest about the reality and address it head on. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
Better acceptance won't happen by screaming 'homophobic' when someone makes a statements of fact or lying about those facts. It'll come if people can be honest about the reality and address it head on. "And all I have posted is facts.from.public health England | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
Better acceptance won't happen by screaming 'homophobic' when someone makes a statements of fact or lying about those facts. It'll come if people can be honest about the reality and address it head on.
And all I have posted is facts.from.public health England "According to public health England, the actual proportion of men who have had sex with men in the past five years is 3.3%. You plucked a bullshit figure about 18-24 years that is no doubt suffering from framing issues, and you're pretending that men who fuck men is nearly half of men when they are actually 3.3% according to your own source. Also from your own source, 58.7 / 1,000 gay and bi men have HIV whilst it's 1.1 / 1,000 for hetrosexual men. So frankly, you're lying. | |||
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"OP your opening post was brilliant and inspiring. As a biguy I've been turned down by fems even bifems. I think that's why biguys hide their sexuality, so they have more woman to chose from. Fortunately I'm now with a fwb who not only accepts who I am but she actively encourages it. Brokenbrilliance you are a knob and it's your maths that are wrong." Last time I checked, 58.7 was a bigger number than 1.1 | |||
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"OP your opening post was brilliant and inspiring. As a biguy I've been turned down by fems even bifems. I think that's why biguys hide their sexuality, so they have more woman to chose from. Fortunately I'm now with a fwb who not only accepts who I am but she actively encourages it. Brokenbrilliance you are a knob and it's your maths that are wrong. Last time I checked, 58.7 was a bigger number than 1.1 "I'm talking about your original quote re maths when someone quoted the shift between 54% and 46%. You didn't agree it was 4%. | |||
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"OP your opening post was brilliant and inspiring. As a biguy I've been turned down by fems even bifems. I think that's why biguys hide their sexuality, so they have more woman to chose from. Fortunately I'm now with a fwb who not only accepts who I am but she actively encourages it. Brokenbrilliance you are a knob and it's your maths that are wrong. Last time I checked, 58.7 was a bigger number than 1.1
I'm talking about your original quote re maths when someone quoted the shift between 54% and 46%. You didn't agree it was 4%."No you just aren't intelligent enough to recognise the mathematical point i was making. | |||
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"This thread seems to of become a maths lesson "I've honestly never encountered people before who weren't aware that HIV is over represented in the LGBT community. The attempts to try and indicate they aren't are mind boggling. | |||
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"This thread seems to of become a maths lesson
I've honestly never encountered people before who weren't aware that HIV is over represented in the LGBT community. The attempts to try and indicate they aren't are mind boggling. "I really don't think anybody has tried to do that. My feelings are that the OP was just saying to everyone 'be yourself'. Also on more than one occasion the importance of safe sex, whether with a gay,bi or straight was pointed out. | |||
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"This thread seems to of become a maths lesson
I've honestly never encountered people before who weren't aware that HIV is over represented in the LGBT community. The attempts to try and indicate they aren't are mind boggling.
I really don't think anybody has tried to do that. My feelings are that the OP was just saying to everyone 'be yourself'. Also on more than one occasion the importance of safe sex, whether with a gay,bi or straight was pointed out."Read the thread ffs | |||
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"OP your opening post was brilliant and inspiring. As a biguy I've been turned down by fems even bifems. I think that's why biguys hide their sexuality, so they have more woman to chose from. Fortunately I'm now with a fwb who not only accepts who I am but she actively encourages it. Brokenbrilliance you are a knob and it's your maths that are wrong. Last time I checked, 58.7 was a bigger number than 1.1
I'm talking about your original quote re maths when someone quoted the shift between 54% and 46%. You didn't agree it was 4%.
No you just aren't intelligent enough to recognise the mathematical point i was making. "Trust me I would be happy to match my intelligence against yours any day of the week | |||
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"This thread seems to of become a maths lesson
I've honestly never encountered people before who weren't aware that HIV is over represented in the LGBT community. The attempts to try and indicate they aren't are mind boggling.
I really don't think anybody has tried to do that. My feelings are that the OP was just saying to everyone 'be yourself'. Also on more than one occasion the importance of safe sex, whether with a gay,bi or straight was pointed out.
Read the thread ffs"Yep I did that before my first post and don't understand how you can lump gay and bi into the same statistic. | |||
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"Perhaps we should all just call ourselves 'sexual' and not try define it any more than that? I guess that would leave only one other label of 'asexual' where there's a complete absence of sexual feelings?" I agree. It would make it less segregated. Not sure if asexual people come under the LGBT+ banner. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
Better acceptance won't happen by screaming 'homophobic' when someone makes a statements of fact or lying about those facts. It'll come if people can be honest about the reality and address it head on. "You obviously have issues as every thread involving bi and transgender issues you inject poison into it, perhaps counciling may help. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
Better acceptance won't happen by screaming 'homophobic' when someone makes a statements of fact or lying about those facts. It'll come if people can be honest about the reality and address it head on.
You obviously have issues as every thread involving bi and transgender issues you inject poison into it, perhaps counciling may help."Facts from public health England are poison. Ok. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
Better acceptance won't happen by screaming 'homophobic' when someone makes a statements of fact or lying about those facts. It'll come if people can be honest about the reality and address it head on.
You obviously have issues as every thread involving bi and transgender issues you inject poison into it, perhaps counciling may help.
Facts from public health England are poison. Ok. "I rest my case, nothing more to add. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
Better acceptance won't happen by screaming 'homophobic' when someone makes a statements of fact or lying about those facts. It'll come if people can be honest about the reality and address it head on.
You obviously have issues as every thread involving bi and transgender issues you inject poison into it, perhaps counciling may help.
Facts from public health England are poison. Ok.
I rest my case, nothing more to add. "People like you do the biggest disservice to the LGBT community because you just scream phobic at everything so nobody takes you seriously. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
Better acceptance won't happen by screaming 'homophobic' when someone makes a statements of fact or lying about those facts. It'll come if people can be honest about the reality and address it head on.
You obviously have issues as every thread involving bi and transgender issues you inject poison into it, perhaps counciling may help.
Facts from public health England are poison. Ok. "So where do you get your facts from. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
Better acceptance won't happen by screaming 'homophobic' when someone makes a statements of fact or lying about those facts. It'll come if people can be honest about the reality and address it head on.
You obviously have issues as every thread involving bi and transgender issues you inject poison into it, perhaps counciling may help.
Facts from public health England are poison. Ok.
So where do you get your facts from.
"Public Health England like the post said, you may remember quoting it earlier as a failed attempt to support your views. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
Better acceptance won't happen by screaming 'homophobic' when someone makes a statements of fact or lying about those facts. It'll come if people can be honest about the reality and address it head on.
You obviously have issues as every thread involving bi and transgender issues you inject poison into it, perhaps counciling may help.
Facts from public health England are poison. Ok.
So where do you get your facts from.
Public Health England like the post said, you may remember quoting it earlier as a failed attempt to support your views. "I did take a direct quote if public health England. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
As the op I understand where you are coming from. But this misconception about stds is one of the major issues bi men have. "I don't disagree that it's not a factor as has more than been shown on this thread - my point was more that the thread had dissolved into a petty squabble between two parties (both on the same side of the fence) over statistical data and it's interpretation and the very valid points the OP sought to make were being lost sight of as a result. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
As the op I understand where you are coming from. But this misconception about stds is one of the major issues bi men have.
I don't disagree that it's not a factor as has more than been shown on this thread - my point was more that the thread had dissolved into a petty squabble between two parties (both on the same side of the fence) over statistical data and it's interpretation and the very valid points the OP sought to make were being lost sight of as a result."You may see it as a petty squabble but I'm actually getting at the heart of why many profiles say "no bi guys". Denying the problem doesn't not break down barriers. People can't whinge about discrimination if they won't address valid concerns others have. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
As the op I understand where you are coming from. But this misconception about stds is one of the major issues bi men have.
I don't disagree that it's not a factor as has more than been shown on this thread - my point was more that the thread had dissolved into a petty squabble between two parties (both on the same side of the fence) over statistical data and it's interpretation and the very valid points the OP sought to make were being lost sight of as a result."Have to agree but hey us that are a bit bi just crack on... it is what it is and each to their own... | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
Better acceptance won't happen by screaming 'homophobic' when someone makes a statements of fact or lying about those facts. It'll come if people can be honest about the reality and address it head on.
You obviously have issues as every thread involving bi and transgender issues you inject poison into it, perhaps counciling may help.
Facts from public health England are poison. Ok.
I rest my case, nothing more to add.
People like you do the biggest disservice to the LGBT community because you just scream phobic at everything so nobody takes you seriously. "Ahem on the contrary I don't actually, you just belittle your self by saying it. Shouting nonsense doesn't make anybody listen or take you seriously. | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. " Homophobe | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Homophobe "I think you harm your case by being unnecessarily belligerent. No one ever persuaded anyone by telling them they are stupid. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
As the op I understand where you are coming from. But this misconception about stds is one of the major issues bi men have.
I don't disagree that it's not a factor as has more than been shown on this thread - my point was more that the thread had dissolved into a petty squabble between two parties (both on the same side of the fence) over statistical data and it's interpretation and the very valid points the OP sought to make were being lost sight of as a result.
You may see it as a petty squabble but I'm actually getting at the heart of why many profiles say "no bi guys". Denying the problem doesn't not break down barriers. People can't whinge about discrimination if they won't address valid concerns others have. "It was a petty squabble and you know it - between both of you all you did was show that statistics can be manipulated to show whatever the heck you like - as the old saying goes there's lies, lies and damned statistics. What I don't disagree with is the key is why "some" profiles won't meet bi guys and the reasons are many and not all grounded in the STD mantra you've rolled out, although some are. Ultimately though if it's their preference not to meet bi guys it IS simply that, a preference, nothing more nothing less - unless it is grounded in bigotry or homophobia of course. Changing people's meet preferences is not what I see as the important factor here, as opposed to people's acceptance of bi males generally speaking - regardless of whether they want to play with them or not. Things like there not being a need for specified Bi Nights, because people accept bi male play in the same way they accept bi female play would be my ultimate aim. | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. " Wow... good to see stats ... they never lie
Pity you and your views x | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Homophobe
I think you harm your case by being unnecessarily belligerent. No one ever persuaded anyone by telling them they are stupid. "When people deny that 1+1=2 then mockery is all we have left | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Wow... good to see stats ... they never lie
Pity you and your views x"Eh? I am not sure how you are inferring my views from that recital of the facts. Given that if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a bi man is negligible, I actually don't think "I won't have sex with bi men because I might get hiv" is a reasonable stance. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
As the op I understand where you are coming from. But this misconception about stds is one of the major issues bi men have.
I don't disagree that it's not a factor as has more than been shown on this thread - my point was more that the thread had dissolved into a petty squabble between two parties (both on the same side of the fence) over statistical data and it's interpretation and the very valid points the OP sought to make were being lost sight of as a result.
You may see it as a petty squabble but I'm actually getting at the heart of why many profiles say "no bi guys". Denying the problem doesn't not break down barriers. People can't whinge about discrimination if they won't address valid concerns others have.
It was a petty squabble and you know it - between both of you all you did was show that statistics can be manipulated to show whatever the heck you like - as the old saying goes there's lies, lies and damned statistics.
What I don't disagree with is the key is why "some" profiles won't meet bi guys and the reasons are many and not all grounded in the STD mantra you've rolled out, although some are. Ultimately though if it's their preference not to meet bi guys it IS simply that, a preference, nothing more nothing less - unless it is grounded in bigotry or homophobia of course.
Changing people's meet preferences is not what I see as the important factor here, as opposed to people's acceptance of bi males generally speaking - regardless of whether they want to play with them or not. Things like there not being a need for specified Bi Nights, because people accept bi male play in the same way they accept bi female play would be my ultimate aim."There's no such thing as "preference". It's just a bullshit term people trot out when they don't want to say something politically incorrect. So are you claiming that HIV isn't more prevalent in the LGBT community and the statistics have been manipulated by Public Health England? | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Wow... good to see stats ... they never lie
Pity you and your views x
Eh?
I am not sure how you are inferring my views from that recital of the facts. Given that if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a bi man is negligible, I actually don't think "I won't have sex with bi men because I might get hiv" is a reasonable stance. "Now you see what we're up against... | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Homophobe
I think you harm your case by being unnecessarily belligerent. No one ever persuaded anyone by telling them they are stupid.
When people deny that 1+1=2 then mockery is all we have left"As you say, people often don't understand statistics. Mockery might make you feel clever, but explanation is generally better. | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Wow... good to see stats ... they never lie
Pity you and your views x
Eh?
I am not sure how you are inferring my views from that recital of the facts. Given that if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a bi man is negligible, I actually don't think "I won't have sex with bi men because I might get hiv" is a reasonable stance.
Now you see what we're up against..."Don't put me in your club | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Homophobe
I think you harm your case by being unnecessarily belligerent. No one ever persuaded anyone by telling them they are stupid.
When people deny that 1+1=2 then mockery is all we have left
As you say, people often don't understand statistics. Mockery might make you feel clever, but explanation is generally better. "You tried that and then you got told that those were just "your views" | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Wow... good to see stats ... they never lie
Pity you and your views x
Eh?
I am not sure how you are inferring my views from that recital of the facts. Given that if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a bi man is negligible, I actually don't think "I won't have sex with bi men because I might get hiv" is a reasonable stance. "You are who you are and I am who I am. I can respectfully disagree with your view these days or I also have the option of respectfully telling you to do one. Tonight I choose the latter as I can’t be arsed arguing with Muppets | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Wow... good to see stats ... they never lie
Pity you and your views x
Eh?
I am not sure how you are inferring my views from that recital of the facts. Given that if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a bi man is negligible, I actually don't think "I won't have sex with bi men because I might get hiv" is a reasonable stance.
You are who you are and I am who I am. I can respectfully disagree with your view these days or I also have the option of respectfully telling you to do one. Tonight I choose the latter as I can’t be arsed arguing with Muppets "You can obviously say whatever you like but if you disagree with me, it's generally more helpful to explain where I am wrong rather than just dole out insults. | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Wow... good to see stats ... they never lie
Pity you and your views x
Eh?
I am not sure how you are inferring my views from that recital of the facts. Given that if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a bi man is negligible, I actually don't think "I won't have sex with bi men because I might get hiv" is a reasonable stance.
You are who you are and I am who I am. I can respectfully disagree with your view these days or I also have the option of respectfully telling you to do one. Tonight I choose the latter as I can’t be arsed arguing with Muppets
You can obviously say whatever you like but if you disagree with me, it's generally more helpful to explain where I am wrong rather than just dole out insults. "I’ll try one last time... read above... your just not worth the effort | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Wow... good to see stats ... they never lie
Pity you and your views x
Eh?
I am not sure how you are inferring my views from that recital of the facts. Given that if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a bi man is negligible, I actually don't think "I won't have sex with bi men because I might get hiv" is a reasonable stance.
Now you see what we're up against...
Don't put me in your club "Not too late to join... | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Wow... good to see stats ... they never lie
Pity you and your views x
Eh?
I am not sure how you are inferring my views from that recital of the facts. Given that if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a bi man is negligible, I actually don't think "I won't have sex with bi men because I might get hiv" is a reasonable stance.
You are who you are and I am who I am. I can respectfully disagree with your view these days or I also have the option of respectfully telling you to do one. Tonight I choose the latter as I can’t be arsed arguing with Muppets
You can obviously say whatever you like but if you disagree with me, it's generally more helpful to explain where I am wrong rather than just dole out insults.
I’ll try one last time... read above... your just not worth the effort "You've lost me. I got the stats from public health England and its quite clear that, using broad stats, Gay and bi men are far more likely to have hiv than straight men. Whilst that correct, I don't think it's particularly relevant in our world because if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a Gay or bi man is tiny. I fail to see why anything I have said is incorrect or objectionable, but if I have overlooked something, please let me know what it is. | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Wow... good to see stats ... they never lie
Pity you and your views x
Eh?
I am not sure how you are inferring my views from that recital of the facts. Given that if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a bi man is negligible, I actually don't think "I won't have sex with bi men because I might get hiv" is a reasonable stance.
You are who you are and I am who I am. I can respectfully disagree with your view these days or I also have the option of respectfully telling you to do one. Tonight I choose the latter as I can’t be arsed arguing with Muppets
You can obviously say whatever you like but if you disagree with me, it's generally more helpful to explain where I am wrong rather than just dole out insults.
I’ll try one last time... read above... your just not worth the effort
You've lost me. I got the stats from public health England and its quite clear that, using broad stats, Gay and bi men are far more likely to have hiv than straight men.
Whilst that correct, I don't think it's particularly relevant in our world because if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a Gay or bi man is tiny.
I fail to see why anything I have said is incorrect or objectionable, but if I have overlooked something, please let me know what it is. "I get what your saying but I don’t think it’s fair to put bookies ‘odds’ and ‘chances are’ on anything in life. Life is life... we all take our chances whether it’s crossing the road or pulling a man or girl... it is what it is... nothing more or less | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Wow... good to see stats ... they never lie
Pity you and your views x
Eh?
I am not sure how you are inferring my views from that recital of the facts. Given that if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a bi man is negligible, I actually don't think "I won't have sex with bi men because I might get hiv" is a reasonable stance.
You are who you are and I am who I am. I can respectfully disagree with your view these days or I also have the option of respectfully telling you to do one. Tonight I choose the latter as I can’t be arsed arguing with Muppets
You can obviously say whatever you like but if you disagree with me, it's generally more helpful to explain where I am wrong rather than just dole out insults.
I’ll try one last time... read above... your just not worth the effort
You've lost me. I got the stats from public health England and its quite clear that, using broad stats, Gay and bi men are far more likely to have hiv than straight men.
Whilst that correct, I don't think it's particularly relevant in our world because if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a Gay or bi man is tiny.
I fail to see why anything I have said is incorrect or objectionable, but if I have overlooked something, please let me know what it is.
I get what your saying but I don’t think it’s fair to put bookies ‘odds’ and ‘chances are’ on anything in life. Life is life... we all take our chances whether it’s crossing the road or pulling a man or girl... it is what it is... nothing more or less "Fairness and facts are completely different things. It's not fair that the child of someone born on a council estate has less chance of a well paying job than the child of a merchant banker, but it's a fact. Some facts are unpleasant. It's not a good idea to disregard them because of that. | |||
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"Apparently there's around 100000 people with hiv in the UK and about half of those are men who have sex with men. If we assume around 25 million adult males and about 3% of them have sex with with men, that gives us about 750000 Gay or bi men and 24 250000 straight men. As there are around 50000 Gay or bi men with hiv that gives the Chance of any Gay or bi man having hiv at around 7%. Apparently two thirds of hiv cases are male, so the straight male number will be around 35000. . Given around 24 Million straight men that gives their chance at around 0.15%. Obviously they are very broad categories. I suspect straight people who shag around like what we do will have a much higher percentage. I also suspect that what one might call recreational bi men (ie men who actually prefer women but will have sex with men, like most "bi" men on here) have a lower rate than men primarily interested in men. Thems the facts. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. Wow... good to see stats ... they never lie
Pity you and your views x
Eh?
I am not sure how you are inferring my views from that recital of the facts. Given that if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a bi man is negligible, I actually don't think "I won't have sex with bi men because I might get hiv" is a reasonable stance.
You are who you are and I am who I am. I can respectfully disagree with your view these days or I also have the option of respectfully telling you to do one. Tonight I choose the latter as I can’t be arsed arguing with Muppets
You can obviously say whatever you like but if you disagree with me, it's generally more helpful to explain where I am wrong rather than just dole out insults.
I’ll try one last time... read above... your just not worth the effort
You've lost me. I got the stats from public health England and its quite clear that, using broad stats, Gay and bi men are far more likely to have hiv than straight men.
Whilst that correct, I don't think it's particularly relevant in our world because if you use condoms your chances of catching hiv from a Gay or bi man is tiny.
I fail to see why anything I have said is incorrect or objectionable, but if I have overlooked something, please let me know what it is.
I get what your saying but I don’t think it’s fair to put bookies ‘odds’ and ‘chances are’ on anything in life. Life is life... we all take our chances whether it’s crossing the road or pulling a man or girl... it is what it is... nothing more or less
Fairness and facts are completely different things. It's not fair that the child of someone born on a council estate has less chance of a well paying job than the child of a merchant banker, but it's a fact.
Some facts are unpleasant. It's not a good idea to disregard them because of that. "It’s called life... shit happens and sometimes you win and other times you don’t! Hey ho .. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
As the op I understand where you are coming from. But this misconception about stds is one of the major issues bi men have.
I don't disagree that it's not a factor as has more than been shown on this thread - my point was more that the thread had dissolved into a petty squabble between two parties (both on the same side of the fence) over statistical data and it's interpretation and the very valid points the OP sought to make were being lost sight of as a result.
You may see it as a petty squabble but I'm actually getting at the heart of why many profiles say "no bi guys". Denying the problem doesn't not break down barriers. People can't whinge about discrimination if they won't address valid concerns others have.
It was a petty squabble and you know it - between both of you all you did was show that statistics can be manipulated to show whatever the heck you like - as the old saying goes there's lies, lies and damned statistics.
What I don't disagree with is the key is why "some" profiles won't meet bi guys and the reasons are many and not all grounded in the STD mantra you've rolled out, although some are. Ultimately though if it's their preference not to meet bi guys it IS simply that, a preference, nothing more nothing less - unless it is grounded in bigotry or homophobia of course.
Changing people's meet preferences is not what I see as the important factor here, as opposed to people's acceptance of bi males generally speaking - regardless of whether they want to play with them or not. Things like there not being a need for specified Bi Nights, because people accept bi male play in the same way they accept bi female play would be my ultimate aim.
There's no such thing as "preference". It's just a bullshit term people trot out when they don't want to say something politically incorrect.
So are you claiming that HIV isn't more prevalent in the LGBT community and the statistics have been manipulated by Public Health England? "I'm not "claiming" anything of the sort, I hold my hand up to not knowing enough to be able to make a claim either way, and as has been amply shown on this thread statistics come down to how they are interpreted and often that can be two ways depending on how you *want* to interpret them. As for there being no such thing as "preference" - what balderdash!! Everyone has preferences about all sorts of things, whether that be taking sugar in their tea, or choosing to meet/play with bi men or not - now their reasons for those preferences may be questionable in *some* instances, but they're still preferences all the same and personally I'd rather not worry myself about changing those peoples preferences, and focus on general acceptance of mine. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
As the op I understand where you are coming from. But this misconception about stds is one of the major issues bi men have.
I don't disagree that it's not a factor as has more than been shown on this thread - my point was more that the thread had dissolved into a petty squabble between two parties (both on the same side of the fence) over statistical data and it's interpretation and the very valid points the OP sought to make were being lost sight of as a result.
You may see it as a petty squabble but I'm actually getting at the heart of why many profiles say "no bi guys". Denying the problem doesn't not break down barriers. People can't whinge about discrimination if they won't address valid concerns others have.
It was a petty squabble and you know it - between both of you all you did was show that statistics can be manipulated to show whatever the heck you like - as the old saying goes there's lies, lies and damned statistics.
What I don't disagree with is the key is why "some" profiles won't meet bi guys and the reasons are many and not all grounded in the STD mantra you've rolled out, although some are. Ultimately though if it's their preference not to meet bi guys it IS simply that, a preference, nothing more nothing less - unless it is grounded in bigotry or homophobia of course.
Changing people's meet preferences is not what I see as the important factor here, as opposed to people's acceptance of bi males generally speaking - regardless of whether they want to play with them or not. Things like there not being a need for specified Bi Nights, because people accept bi male play in the same way they accept bi female play would be my ultimate aim.
There's no such thing as "preference". It's just a bullshit term people trot out when they don't want to say something politically incorrect.
So are you claiming that HIV isn't more prevalent in the LGBT community and the statistics have been manipulated by Public Health England?
I'm not "claiming" anything of the sort, I hold my hand up to not knowing enough to be able to make a claim either way, and as has been amply shown on this thread statistics come down to how they are interpreted and often that can be two ways depending on how you *want* to interpret them.
"I'm sorry but that's a bizzare response, I don't want to strawman you but you've given no reason why that Public Health England figures would be wrong, no alternative interpretations of them would would make an ounce of sense and yet you refuse to accept them! Why? | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant " lololololol. She just dragged that argument. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
As the op I understand where you are coming from. But this misconception about stds is one of the major issues bi men have.
I don't disagree that it's not a factor as has more than been shown on this thread - my point was more that the thread had dissolved into a petty squabble between two parties (both on the same side of the fence) over statistical data and it's interpretation and the very valid points the OP sought to make were being lost sight of as a result.
You may see it as a petty squabble but I'm actually getting at the heart of why many profiles say "no bi guys". Denying the problem doesn't not break down barriers. People can't whinge about discrimination if they won't address valid concerns others have.
It was a petty squabble and you know it - between both of you all you did was show that statistics can be manipulated to show whatever the heck you like - as the old saying goes there's lies, lies and damned statistics.
What I don't disagree with is the key is why "some" profiles won't meet bi guys and the reasons are many and not all grounded in the STD mantra you've rolled out, although some are. Ultimately though if it's their preference not to meet bi guys it IS simply that, a preference, nothing more nothing less - unless it is grounded in bigotry or homophobia of course.
Changing people's meet preferences is not what I see as the important factor here, as opposed to people's acceptance of bi males generally speaking - regardless of whether they want to play with them or not. Things like there not being a need for specified Bi Nights, because people accept bi male play in the same way they accept bi female play would be my ultimate aim.
There's no such thing as "preference". It's just a bullshit term people trot out when they don't want to say something politically incorrect.
So are you claiming that HIV isn't more prevalent in the LGBT community and the statistics have been manipulated by Public Health England?
I'm not "claiming" anything of the sort, I hold my hand up to not knowing enough to be able to make a claim either way, and as has been amply shown on this thread statistics come down to how they are interpreted and often that can be two ways depending on how you *want* to interpret them.
As for there being no such thing as "preference" - what balderdash!! Everyone has preferences about all sorts of things, whether that be taking sugar in their tea, or choosing to meet/play with bi men or not - now their reasons for those preferences may be questionable in *some* instances, but they're still preferences all the same and personally I'd rather not worry myself about changing those peoples preferences, and focus on general acceptance of mine."I don't usually agree with BB, but he's right on this occasion. In the UK Gay and bi men are more likely to have hiv than straight men, that's an indisputable fact. It's the conclusions you draw from that fact that are open to debate. | |||
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"It's not all stigma and misconceptions. It's a statistical fact that men who fuck men are higher risk of STDs in particular AIDs. People have the right to make informed choices about who they want to fuck and therefore there's nothing irrational about excluding high risk groups. If you can't face up to basic facts like this then you are just preaching to the converted / willfully ignorant. Well if you look at the new public health England report on Stds within the community you will see that the greatest increase is with hetrosexual males aged 16 to 24. Irrelevant Yes there has been an issue with STDs within the LGBT community in the past but this is now dropping. It's still there The two focus areas that gum clinics up and down the country have been targeting is 16 to 24 year old and over 50s as there has been a considerable increase in both areas. Irrelevant The whole concept that all bi males are desease ridden is one of the issues that needs to change. Strawman Anyone can have a std if they practice unsafe sex. Yes there is a higher risk if you are sleeping around. Irrelevant In fact if you change to gum nurses alot of them would but everyone on here as high risk due to the lifestyle we chose to live. Irrelevant lololololol. She just dragged that argument." | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
As the op I understand where you are coming from. But this misconception about stds is one of the major issues bi men have.
I don't disagree that it's not a factor as has more than been shown on this thread - my point was more that the thread had dissolved into a petty squabble between two parties (both on the same side of the fence) over statistical data and it's interpretation and the very valid points the OP sought to make were being lost sight of as a result.
You may see it as a petty squabble but I'm actually getting at the heart of why many profiles say "no bi guys". Denying the problem doesn't not break down barriers. People can't whinge about discrimination if they won't address valid concerns others have.
It was a petty squabble and you know it - between both of you all you did was show that statistics can be manipulated to show whatever the heck you like - as the old saying goes there's lies, lies and damned statistics.
What I don't disagree with is the key is why "some" profiles won't meet bi guys and the reasons are many and not all grounded in the STD mantra you've rolled out, although some are. Ultimately though if it's their preference not to meet bi guys it IS simply that, a preference, nothing more nothing less - unless it is grounded in bigotry or homophobia of course.
Changing people's meet preferences is not what I see as the important factor here, as opposed to people's acceptance of bi males generally speaking - regardless of whether they want to play with them or not. Things like there not being a need for specified Bi Nights, because people accept bi male play in the same way they accept bi female play would be my ultimate aim.
There's no such thing as "preference". It's just a bullshit term people trot out when they don't want to say something politically incorrect.
So are you claiming that HIV isn't more prevalent in the LGBT community and the statistics have been manipulated by Public Health England?
I'm not "claiming" anything of the sort, I hold my hand up to not knowing enough to be able to make a claim either way, and as has been amply shown on this thread statistics come down to how they are interpreted and often that can be two ways depending on how you *want* to interpret them.
As for there being no such thing as "preference" - what balderdash!! Everyone has preferences about all sorts of things, whether that be taking sugar in their tea, or choosing to meet/play with bi men or not - now their reasons for those preferences may be questionable in *some* instances, but they're still preferences all the same and personally I'd rather not worry myself about changing those peoples preferences, and focus on general acceptance of mine.
I don't usually agree with BB, but he's right on this occasion. In the UK Gay and bi men are more likely to have hiv than straight men, that's an indisputable fact.
It's the conclusions you draw from that fact that are open to debate. "Yes and the point i wanted to make, before people started arguing that 1+1=4 is the difference between the risk profile of a group and individuals within it can vary dramatically. We even have a term in maths for it. But personally I like to acknowledge the fact and then invite people to have a discussion about my personal risk profile and then they can make an informed choice. | |||
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"This thread seems to of become a maths lesson
I've honestly never encountered people before who weren't aware that HIV is over represented in the LGBT community. The attempts to try and indicate they aren't are mind boggling. "Lol welcome to fab where denial, delusion, and wishful thinking are King. Especially with this issue. | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
As the op I understand where you are coming from. But this misconception about stds is one of the major issues bi men have.
I don't disagree that it's not a factor as has more than been shown on this thread - my point was more that the thread had dissolved into a petty squabble between two parties (both on the same side of the fence) over statistical data and it's interpretation and the very valid points the OP sought to make were being lost sight of as a result.
You may see it as a petty squabble but I'm actually getting at the heart of why many profiles say "no bi guys". Denying the problem doesn't not break down barriers. People can't whinge about discrimination if they won't address valid concerns others have.
It was a petty squabble and you know it - between both of you all you did was show that statistics can be manipulated to show whatever the heck you like - as the old saying goes there's lies, lies and damned statistics.
What I don't disagree with is the key is why "some" profiles won't meet bi guys and the reasons are many and not all grounded in the STD mantra you've rolled out, although some are. Ultimately though if it's their preference not to meet bi guys it IS simply that, a preference, nothing more nothing less - unless it is grounded in bigotry or homophobia of course.
Changing people's meet preferences is not what I see as the important factor here, as opposed to people's acceptance of bi males generally speaking - regardless of whether they want to play with them or not. Things like there not being a need for specified Bi Nights, because people accept bi male play in the same way they accept bi female play would be my ultimate aim.
There's no such thing as "preference". It's just a bullshit term people trot out when they don't want to say something politically incorrect.
So are you claiming that HIV isn't more prevalent in the LGBT community and the statistics have been manipulated by Public Health England?
I'm not "claiming" anything of the sort, I hold my hand up to not knowing enough to be able to make a claim either way, and as has been amply shown on this thread statistics come down to how they are interpreted and often that can be two ways depending on how you *want* to interpret them.
As for there being no such thing as "preference" - what balderdash!! Everyone has preferences about all sorts of things, whether that be taking sugar in their tea, or choosing to meet/play with bi men or not - now their reasons for those preferences may be questionable in *some* instances, but they're still preferences all the same and personally I'd rather not worry myself about changing those peoples preferences, and focus on general acceptance of mine.
I don't usually agree with BB, but he's right on this occasion. In the UK Gay and bi men are more likely to have hiv than straight men, that's an indisputable fact.
It's the conclusions you draw from that fact that are open to debate.
Yes and the point i wanted to make, before people started arguing that 1+1=4 is the difference between the risk profile of a group and individuals within it can vary dramatically. We even have a term in maths for it. But personally I like to acknowledge the fact and then invite people to have a discussion about my personal risk profile and then they can make an informed choice. "Someone raised this, but it is, of course, entirely possible that swingers are more likely to have hiv than bi /Gay men who are not swingers. I'm not aware of any specific stats relating to swingers as a group. | |||
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"This thread seems to of become a maths lesson
I've honestly never encountered people before who weren't aware that HIV is over represented in the LGBT community. The attempts to try and indicate they aren't are mind boggling.
Lol welcome to fab where denial, delusion, and wishful thinking are King. Especially with this issue. "Must be getting old as never fucked someone who had their own ‘personal risk profile’ .... hope I reach 52 now... good luck youngsters | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
As the op I understand where you are coming from. But this misconception about stds is one of the major issues bi men have.
I don't disagree that it's not a factor as has more than been shown on this thread - my point was more that the thread had dissolved into a petty squabble between two parties (both on the same side of the fence) over statistical data and it's interpretation and the very valid points the OP sought to make were being lost sight of as a result.
You may see it as a petty squabble but I'm actually getting at the heart of why many profiles say "no bi guys". Denying the problem doesn't not break down barriers. People can't whinge about discrimination if they won't address valid concerns others have.
It was a petty squabble and you know it - between both of you all you did was show that statistics can be manipulated to show whatever the heck you like - as the old saying goes there's lies, lies and damned statistics.
What I don't disagree with is the key is why "some" profiles won't meet bi guys and the reasons are many and not all grounded in the STD mantra you've rolled out, although some are. Ultimately though if it's their preference not to meet bi guys it IS simply that, a preference, nothing more nothing less - unless it is grounded in bigotry or homophobia of course.
Changing people's meet preferences is not what I see as the important factor here, as opposed to people's acceptance of bi males generally speaking - regardless of whether they want to play with them or not. Things like there not being a need for specified Bi Nights, because people accept bi male play in the same way they accept bi female play would be my ultimate aim.
There's no such thing as "preference". It's just a bullshit term people trot out when they don't want to say something politically incorrect.
So are you claiming that HIV isn't more prevalent in the LGBT community and the statistics have been manipulated by Public Health England?
I'm not "claiming" anything of the sort, I hold my hand up to not knowing enough to be able to make a claim either way, and as has been amply shown on this thread statistics come down to how they are interpreted and often that can be two ways depending on how you *want* to interpret them.
As for there being no such thing as "preference" - what balderdash!! Everyone has preferences about all sorts of things, whether that be taking sugar in their tea, or choosing to meet/play with bi men or not - now their reasons for those preferences may be questionable in *some* instances, but they're still preferences all the same and personally I'd rather not worry myself about changing those peoples preferences, and focus on general acceptance of mine.
I don't usually agree with BB, but he's right on this occasion. In the UK Gay and bi men are more likely to have hiv than straight men, that's an indisputable fact.
It's the conclusions you draw from that fact that are open to debate.
Yes and the point i wanted to make, before people started arguing that 1+1=4 is the difference between the risk profile of a group and individuals within it can vary dramatically. We even have a term in maths for it. But personally I like to acknowledge the fact and then invite people to have a discussion about my personal risk profile and then they can make an informed choice.
Someone raised this, but it is, of course, entirely possible that swingers are more likely to have hiv than bi /Gay men who are not swingers. I'm not aware of any specific stats relating to swingers as a group. "Higher is 'minor' STDs like herpes and HPV which are basically proportional to your number of partners. Lower in 'major' STDs because we test more often and are more strict with condoms, on average, as a group. What's a few genital warts between friends. | |||
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"For better or worse the medical community clearly still thinks men who have sex with men are a somewhat higher risk group. I know this because when I go to the STD clinic for testing they ask me if I have sex with men who have sex with men. It’s also pathetic that this is the term they have to come up with because so many men cannot accept any label but ‘straight’ for themselves when it’s evident they engage in homosexual/same sex sexual activity. So for them to not be all sensitive about it and honest they have to say Men who have sex with men? Shit, denial ain’t just a river in Egypt they say. " Ha ha.. so true ... nice river btw | |||
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"Brokenbrilliance - would you meet a bi man or a couple with a bi man? I would think so as they both identify as bi
Sadly though, a very interesting thread appears to have moved away from promoting acceptance of bisexual men and moved more into the realms of people trying to prove a point that isn't overly relevant (albeit it does have some bearing on people's reasons for a preference not to meet bisexual men).
As the op I understand where you are coming from. But this misconception about stds is one of the major issues bi men have.
I don't disagree that it's not a factor as has more than been shown on this thread - my point was more that the thread had dissolved into a petty squabble between two parties (both on the same side of the fence) over statistical data and it's interpretation and the very valid points the OP sought to make were being lost sight of as a result.
You may see it as a petty squabble but I'm actually getting at the heart of why many profiles say "no bi guys". Denying the problem doesn't not break down barriers. People can't whinge about discrimination if they won't address valid concerns others have.
It was a petty squabble and you know it - between both of you all you did was show that statistics can be manipulated to show whatever the heck you like - as the old saying goes there's lies, lies and damned statistics.
What I don't disagree with is the key is why "some" profiles won't meet bi guys and the reasons are many and not all grounded in the STD mantra you've rolled out, although some are. Ultimately though if it's their preference not to meet bi guys it IS simply that, a preference, nothing more nothing less - unless it is grounded in bigotry or homophobia of course.
Changing people's meet preferences is not what I see as the important factor here, as opposed to people's acceptance of bi males generally speaking - regardless of whether they want to play with them or not. Things like there not being a need for specified Bi Nights, because people accept bi male play in the same way they accept bi female play would be my ultimate aim.
There's no such thing as "preference". It's just a bullshit term people trot out when they don't want to say something politically incorrect.
So are you claiming that HIV isn't more prevalent in the LGBT community and the statistics have been manipulated by Public Health England?
I'm not "claiming" anything of the sort, I hold my hand up to not knowing enough to be able to make a claim either way, and as has been amply shown on this thread statistics come down to how they are interpreted and often that can be two ways depending on how you *want* to interpret them.
I'm sorry but that's a bizzare response, I don't want to strawman you but you've given no reason why that Public Health England figures would be wrong, no alternative interpretations of them would would make an ounce of sense and yet you refuse to accept them! Why? "Errrrr perhaps because I've never once claimed the Public Health England figures that have been quoted by both sides of the squabble here are "wrong" Nor have I refused to accept anything!! I even went as far as to hold my hand up to a lack of knowledge on the subject. So throw whatever brickbats you like!!
ALL I have pointed out is how figures can be misrepresented and misinterpreted by anyone to "prove" an argument - nothing bizarre about that in the slightest, it's common knowledge that it happens.
Interesting to note how you ignored the second part of my post and throughout the thread have picked and chosen the parts you want to try and shoot down, without giving any attention to the often very valid points made in support of the points you want to attack.
For what it's worth, bisexual and gay men are of course in a higher risk group for HIV and other STDs, but then so are a number of other groups considered high risk including the sexually promiscuous - it's also true that practicing safe sex significantly reduces that risk and places a further potential skew on any figures presented yada yada yada.
As I've said several times now though the thread has moved away from it's original intent of promoting acceptance of bisexual men and dissolved mostly into a pissing match over statistics, and that's a real shame
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