FabSwingers.com forum: Religion

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Religion what's your take on it, is it a form of brain washing or a guide to a happy life ect. I'm atheist personally no way one god or creator made this all in 7 days bible hocus pocus lol

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

My religion is personal to me,I am religious and I do believe in God etc xx faith is very Important to me x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If god created the sun on the 4th day.

How had the four days past?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't believe and my kids weren't christened but I fully understand why people do believe.

God is real for some people, that should always be respected when we're chastising religion.

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

"I don't believe and my kids weren't christened but I fully understand why people do believe.

God is real for some people, that should always be respected when we're chastising religion."

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By *heislanderMan
over a year ago

cheshunt

"Religion what's your take on it, is it a form of brain washing or a guide to a happy life ect. I'm atheist personally no way one god or creator made this all in 7 days bible hocus pocus lol"

It’s a personal thing, each to their own. I’m not religious, I was brought up catholic. Last year I had cancer, I lay in bed some days asking if there was a God please could they help me. Sometimes in your hour of need you’ll grasp at straws. Thankfully I’m on the mend, was it God ? Who knows, to me it was another straw I could grab.

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

Glad your on the mend xx

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By *heislanderMan
over a year ago

cheshunt

"Glad your on the mend xx"

Thank you

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By *asmeenTV/TS
over a year ago

STOKE ON TRENT

"Glad your on the mend xx

Thank you

"
xxx

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By *heislanderMan
over a year ago

cheshunt

"Glad your on the mend xx

Thank you

xxx"

It makes you appreciate life more, live every day like it’s your last.

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By *edangel_2013Woman
over a year ago

southend

I believe in 'something'. I'm not entirely sure what that something is, but it isn't the idea of one creator or God.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I religiously drink wine at the weekend...does that count?!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think religion was early mans simple minded attempt of trying to understand everything, i think also in this day and age if you believe in religion over science then you are scared of death and religion just kinda makes you feel a bit better about it.

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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

I find it hard to believe that people believe in the 21st century, but each to their own. A lot of good people do good things in the name of religion. As with most things that hinge on a belief system it is those that shout loudest, believe in the '1 true..whatever' & go the kill or convert route that I despise be that religion/cult/belief of any type.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Those who do believe in their God do seem happy especially when clapping and singing.

There’s something about a lady in a Salvation Army uniform with a tambourine

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Religion what's your take on it, is it a form of brain washing or a guide to a happy life ect. I'm atheist personally no way one god or creator made this all in 7 days bible hocus pocus lol"

Its a fail safe knowing someone out there has your back no matter what. Opened armed and always forgiving especially when you get on those knees and do that good good deed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Religion was invented to get people in line & look where we are

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I find it hard to believe that people believe in the 21st century, but each to their own. A lot of good people do good things in the name of religion. As with most things that hinge on a belief system it is those that shout loudest, believe in the '1 true..whatever' & go the kill or convert route that I despise be that religion/cult/belief of any type."

Maybe some people do good in the name of religion but would those same people do good without the religion? Without the fear of punishment or the hope of reward.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe some people do good in the name of religion but would those same people do good without the religion? Without the fear of punishment or the hope of reward."

Would they fuck lol the amount of confessions the police get because of it

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I think religious beliefs were part of primitive humans attempts to find meaning and gain indirect control of a harsh world. Couple this with some peoples desire to control and benefit from others, where a larger population is under 24/7 observation by an all seeing god, whilst a ruler sits back gaining from the work of others.

Such a god was the perfect CCTV plus system, people in fear of doing wrong and getting punished or cast out of society. Strongly knit cultures were good fighting machines too, defending their ruler and themselves against others.

A really powerful system for law and order , with a comfort blanket from birth to death for the harsh times.

And a get out of jail free card for a bad leader, who could also blame the gods for things going badly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im an atheist but i have utmost reapect for everyones beliefs and reasons for them. My nan took huge comfort in her religion towards the end of her life and it made me understand how important it is better than anyone explaining it could have. Everyone has different reasons for their beliefs and we must respect that. Love everyone, not because a book tells us to....but because its the nicest way to live

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People are entitled to believe what they choose individually, as long as it harms no-one else. Organised religion is one of mankind's greatest scourges, any and all of them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People are always going to worship something whether it is a god, a buddha, an idea, or a despot...

Live and let live is my motto although i am a staunch atheist and firmly believe that the bible is just a collection of stories...and where do the dinosaurs fit into all this?

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

I’m more spiritual than religious. I don’t like organised religion as it’s usually quite patriarchal and full of pointless rules.

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

Everyone prays in the end.

https://youtu.be/hhREiAarjVY

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agnostic here, open to all forms of religion and I do believe something is there, but I do not know what.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

My personal belief is that religion is what you believe it to be. What makes sense to you. And noone else has any right to tell you what to believe

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"Everyone prays in the end.

https://youtu.be/hhREiAarjVY"

I don't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There is a cool documentary on netflix I think its called patterns of exodus, its really interesting and archaeologists compare things they have found during digs with the events in the bible... great floods, plagues, killing of sons... and everything matches up perfectly with the bible, they even found a site where all the kings are buried but there is one grave that is not a king but was given the honour of a kings burial and when they dug up the statue of whoever the grave belongs to it was wearing an unusual bright multicoloured coat which matches up to the time and place of joseph and the technicolour dream coat. Most things have a logical explanation i guess but its still a really interesting documentary

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By *lyreelMan
over a year ago

King's lynn

How can any intelligent person believe in such tosh!

There is no god or any manifestation of a god.

Complete load of brain washing.

Someone said in your hour of need you pray, no chance, I would curse and fight any god who, if was real, could be so unbelievably cruel and allow such horrible things to happen.

No proof......heresay...... used by society makers to keep society in order..... used to commit atrocities from child abuse to wars......good points... soup kitchens occasionally.

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan
over a year ago

Den of Iniquity

"How can any intelligent person believe in such tosh!

There is no god or any manifestation of a god.

Complete load of brain washing.

Someone said in your hour of need you pray, no chance, I would curse and fight any god who, if was real, could be so unbelievably cruel and allow such horrible things to happen.

No proof......heresay...... used by society makers to keep society in order..... used to commit atrocities from child abuse to wars......good points... soup kitchens occasionally.

"
This ^ Spot on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If there is a god were all fucked and headed the other way

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Everyone prays in the end.

https://youtu.be/hhREiAarjVY"

I intend to go out cursing....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Religion what's your take on it, is it a form of brain washing or a guide to a happy life ect. I'm atheist personally no way one god or creator made this all in 7 days bible hocus pocus lol"

In the olden days it was used as a way to keep people law abiding as we didn’t have a real justice system so the “fear of god” was put in them.

We both like values most religions have, but we don’t follow the imaginary friend, we feel it’s now outdated and just a means for people to fall out, so really the opposite of what it was designed to do (in our opinion of course, and no intent to insult/offend anybody apologies in advance for that)

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

"Everyone prays in the end.

https://youtu.be/hhREiAarjVY"

No they do not x

Atheist here and happy x

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By *rontier PsychiatristMan
over a year ago

Coventry

[Removed by poster at 26/06/18 10:26:44]

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By *rontier PsychiatristMan
over a year ago

Coventry

"Religion what's your take on it, is it a form of brain washing or a guide to a happy life ect. I'm atheist personally no way one god or creator made this all in 7 days bible hocus pocus lol"

All of that. It is different things to different people and is propagated by others with many different intensions/motives. I know many people and freinds of faith (various ones) and was raised in a faith community (family, church and school). But honestly i find it hard how other people can read all the bible and still believe in god? True faith is a powerful force. I have seen with my own eyes what amazing powerful things it can make a person do/archive. It's also a force that can do such evil. But personally I don't believe in a higher power or at least the existantce of a creative force is of no importance to me. I would the evidence for such at thing is highly negligible. So I prefer to concentrate on the world we live on, the here & now and investigating the forces we have evidence of. It's not that my mind has not the capacity to envisage a higher power. It's more one in the face of our understanding of the world it's highly improbable and two surely our efforts are best dealing with the things we can prove and change on this earth. But I have nothing wrong with people of faith as long as they are compationate and ethical just same as I feel about everyone else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Everyone prays in the end.

https://youtu.be/hhREiAarjVY"

Some might say you may as well believe because if you're wrong,you've nothing to lose and if it all turns out to be true then you've everything to gain.

Well, wouldn't an omnipotent,all seeing god be able too see through that kind of insincerity?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I religiously drink wine at the weekend...does that count?!

"
not a bad choice for religion

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"Everyone prays in the end.

https://youtu.be/hhREiAarjVY

Some might say you may as well believe because if you're wrong,you've nothing to lose and if it all turns out to be true then you've everything to gain.

Well, wouldn't an omnipotent,all seeing god be able too see through that kind of insincerity?"

That's Pascals wager. It also assumes that God rewards belief and punishes disbelief. It's entirely possible that even if God existed he might punish insincere belief and reward sincere non belief.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don't believe and my kids weren't christened but I fully understand why people do believe.

God is real for some people, that should always be respected when we're chastising religion."

Yet atheism seems so often not respected in my experience.

I have been subjected to religious talk which I find offensive, yet I'm not allowed to say I'm atheist because it's seen as rubbishing religion, even though atheism is MY reality.

Why do I have to put up with people coming to my door trying to sell religion, or have to listen to "god bless"? I never mention the fact I don't believe unless I'm asked.

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

"There is no god and I am it's leader -follow me"

...is a quote I came across a few years back that really resonated with me -It was by an Indian Philosopher who's name escapes me now and was said in response to the Militant Atheism popular at the time that Dawkins' "God Delusion" book first came out...

As for me I would best describe myself as a former militant Atheist who has now evolved into a skeptical Agnostic (i.e. I see the supreme faith in rational logic as an alternative to/ arguement against Religion is in itself a belief system).

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

"I don't believe and my kids weren't christened but I fully understand why people do believe.

God is real for some people, that should always be respected when we're chastising religion.

Yet atheism seems so often not respected in my experience.

I have been subjected to religious talk which I find offensive, yet I'm not allowed to say I'm atheist because it's seen as rubbishing religion, even though atheism is MY reality.

Why do I have to put up with people coming to my door trying to sell religion, or have to listen to "god bless"? I never mention the fact I don't believe unless I'm asked."

Chill... There are people with all kinds of crazy beliefs out there from conspiracy theories, through religious zealots to political campaigners!

it's called having an opinion -you're quite free to either close the door on them or engage them in a rational debate -but surely hardly worth the effort to get enraged over -or next thing you'll be frothing at the mouth and shouting at the TV/ Radio etc...

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By *pice of life 79Man
over a year ago

lincoln, sleaford , grantham , nottingham

Spot on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How can any intelligent person believe in such tosh!

There is no god or any manifestation of a god.

Complete load of brain washing.

Someone said in your hour of need you pray, no chance, I would curse and fight any god who, if was real, could be so unbelievably cruel and allow such horrible things to happen.

No proof......heresay...... used by society makers to keep society in order..... used to commit atrocities from child abuse to wars......good points... soup kitchens occasionally.

This matches my personal view, however I do respect what religion means to others. My job involves people at the end of their life. If religion gives them and their families hope and peace, I will do whatever it takes to meet their religious needs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

These threads always turn into a squabble.

Am I religious? Broadly es. Do I believe in a God and afterlife? Yes. Do I think the Bible is correct? A lot of it yes, some no and some has become outdated.

Am I brainwashed? No. Unintelligent? I would hope not. Scared of death? Not really (and I have a terminal illness).

It does often seem though, that because of my faith others want to pigeonhole me and expect me to justify.

Why do I believe? Because I do.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is it not possible to believe in both science and religion? At this time, there is no scientific proof that can definitively state there is no existence of a god, or the opposite. Where evidence is lacking, either way, we cannot obtain concrete proof.

I don’t believe that religion was used solely as a tool to control the masses. I believe it was used to explain the unknown in times when science was too early in its infancy to provide an explanation.

I still believe it can have that purpose in the modern day, provided it is used correctly and without malice.

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

"How can any intelligent person believe in such tosh!"

Um -in the same way we have ultimate faith in Newtonian world model and modern science despite the fact that scientific theory is not set in stone -i.e the Newonian world view was disproved by Einstein yet most of our Engineering still revolves around Newtonian calculations?

"There is no god or any manifestation of a god."
How about the fact that logical order is all pervasive and embedded in everything around us -take for instance the infallibility of Mathamatical laws (in that, once proven, they hold true for all time -which is quite unlike the rest of science/ logic and reasoning) -what I am trying to get at is that Logic/ logical order, although abstract, could in itself be a god/ creator (the all seeing eye) and that god doesn't have to live in the conventional deity form -I'd even posit that deity based religions may have just been a way for primitive cultures to make sense of all this logical order around them -and no more outrageous than now discredited scientific theories. After all, Newton was as much an alchemist as he was a physicist!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"How can any intelligent person believe in such tosh!

There is no god or any manifestation of a god. How about the fact that logical order is all pervasive and embedded in everything around us -take for instance the infallibility of Mathamatical laws (in that, once proven, they hold true for all time -which is quite unlike the rest of science/ logic and reasoning) -what I am trying to get at is that Logic/ logical order, although abstract, could in itself be a god/ creator (the all seeing eye) and that god doesn't have to live in the conventional deity form -I'd even posit that deity based religions may have just been a way for primitive cultures to make sense of all this logical order around them -and no more outrageous than now discredited scientific theories. After all, Newton was as much an alchemist as he was a physicist!"

Love that guy ^

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

"Is it not possible to believe in both science and religion? At this time, there is no scientific proof that can definitively state there is no existence of a god, or the opposite. Where evidence is lacking, either way, we cannot obtain concrete proof.

I still believe it can have that purpose in the modern day, provided it is used correctly and without malice. "

Yes -I wholly agree -most of my rants above are to do with the absolute certainty of both camps and the lack of perspective to see that there could indeed be a commonality between both.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

theres a wonderfull sketch in family guy where stewie and brian have a device for jumping to alternative universes..they jump to one where everyone is flying about..no one is hungry and everyone is educated and happy..brian askes "which universe is this" stewie says "its one where religion never really took off"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Religion causes wars

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Religion causes wars"

No. Humans cause war.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Religion causes wars

No. Humans cause war."

Humans with different religious beliefs cause wars

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Religion causes wars

No. Humans cause war.

Humans with different religious beliefs cause wars"

And for those that do use religion as an excuse for war or violence, there are very many more that wish to practice their chosen religion in peace and in harmony with other different religions.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

It seems so improbable that I'm inclined to conclude that there's nothing beyond evolutionary drivers that have brought us here, from an assortment of ancestral animals and earlier forms of human species.

The chance of any organized religion being correct, when they have been collated and developed for societal control - as well as the chance that you were personally born either into or close to the accurate one, is so improbably unlikely for me to be able to believe.

There are some potential benefits from believing, including comfort upon the unknown and accepting a permanent end to life doesn't come at death, that i can see how they are highly valuable to so many.

I'm fortunate to live at a time when I'm not at huge risk of being killed because I don't hold belief in the appropriate religion and extend that respect to others with whatever their non-harming religious beliefs.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

I guess religion creates a bit of mystery in life, which some people value.

It's a free country, so everyone is free to choose any religion or none.

I choose none.

I respect the right of others to choose religion.

Where I draw the line is when others seek to impose their religion on others.

As a country, we seem to have moved on from being theocracy.

That said, Iran and the UK are the only two countries in the world who reserve places in their legislatures for religious mullahs.

I think that is wrong.

Keep the mullahs in the churches, please.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think religious beliefs were part of primitive humans attempts to find meaning and gain indirect control of a harsh world. Couple this with some peoples desire to control and benefit from others, where a larger population is under 24/7 observation by an all seeing god, whilst a ruler sits back gaining from the work of others.

A really powerful system for law and order , with a comfort blanket from birth to death for the harsh times.

And a get out of jail free card for a bad leader, who could also blame the gods for things going badly.

Our Father Adam was no ignorant primitive savage, he came to this earth, an earth created for him and his posterity, he took along with him his wife and they replenished the earth...

He was taught in all the arts and the way of heaven, was given signs and tokens so he could discern true messengers from the false...

Never think that a faith in a loving Creator and his doctrine is the stuff of ignorant savages...

It is the foundation that creates civilization and advancement, save when corrupt men and their false religions pollute it...

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

A really powerful system for law and order , with a comfort blanket from birth to death for the harsh times.

And a get out of jail free card for a bad leader, who could also blame the gods for things going badly.

Our Father Adam was no ignorant primitive savage, he came to this earth, an earth created for him and his posterity, he took along with him his wife and they replenished the earth...

He was taught in all the arts and the way of heaven, was given signs and tokens so he could discern true messengers from the false...

Never think that a faith in a loving Creator and his doctrine is the stuff of ignorant savages...

It is the foundation that creates civilization and advancement, save when corrupt men and their false religions pollute it..."

That statement is of course only an opinion with no valid data to substantiate it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfhC25AAxcc

this is pretty much my view on it all

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A really powerful system for law and order , with a comfort blanket from birth to death for the harsh times.

And a get out of jail free card for a bad leader, who could also blame the gods for things going badly.

Our Father Adam was no ignorant primitive savage, he came to this earth, an earth created for him and his posterity, he took along with him his wife and they replenished the earth...

He was taught in all the arts and the way of heaven, was given signs and tokens so he could discern true messengers from the false...

Never think that a faith in a loving Creator and his doctrine is the stuff of ignorant savages...

It is the foundation that creates civilization and advancement, save when corrupt men and their false religions pollute it...

That statement is of course only an opinion with no valid data to substantiate it

The fool says in his heart there is no God....

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By *ookingforlustMan
over a year ago

northants

I spent some time in Northern Ireland during the troubles, and what was being done ‘in the name of religion’ was beyond belief.

I thought ‘thank God I’m not religious......’

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I spent some time in Northern Ireland during the troubles, and what was being done ‘in the name of religion’ was beyond belief.

I thought ‘thank God I’m not religious......’"

So did I and most of that was fuck all to do with religion and more a toxic mix of politics and sheer criminality.

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By *rightonsteveMan
over a year ago

Brighton - even Hove!

We will all find out one day

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I spent some time in Northern Ireland during the troubles, and what was being done ‘in the name of religion’ was beyond belief.

I thought ‘thank God I’m not religious......’

So did I and most of that was fuck all to do with religion and more a toxic mix of politics and sheer criminality. "

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

A really powerful system for law and order , with a comfort blanket from birth to death for the harsh times.

And a get out of jail free card for a bad leader, who could also blame the gods for things going badly.

Our Father Adam was no ignorant primitive savage, he came to this earth, an earth created for him and his posterity, he took along with him his wife and they replenished the earth...

He was taught in all the arts and the way of heaven, was given signs and tokens so he could discern true messengers from the false...

Never think that a faith in a loving Creator and his doctrine is the stuff of ignorant savages...

It is the foundation that creates civilization and advancement, save when corrupt men and their false religions pollute it..."

How do I distinguish between a true religious and a false one

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

"We will all find out one day

Afterlife doesn't have to be sentient -think of electrons w.r.t. quantum theory.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We will all find out one day

We will all cease to exist one day and so will find out nothing.

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

“The more I read, the more I acquire, the more certain I am that I know nothing.”

? Voltaire

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"“The more I read, the more I acquire, the more certain I am that I know nothing.”

? Voltaire"

Hell yeah

Tell me about it!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Religion what's your take on it, is it a form of brain washing or a guide to a happy life ect. I'm atheist personally no way one god or creator made this all in 7 days bible hocus pocus lol"

I'm an athiest but thankfully my personal take on atheism doesn't include belittling other people's beliefs. If people find comfort on their beliefs and those beliefs don't hurt other people then it's all good by me

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

"Religion what's your take on it, is it a form of brain washing or a guide to a happy life ect. I'm atheist personally no way one god or creator made this all in 7 days bible hocus pocus lol

With all this rational talk you're way out numbered on here

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

A really powerful system for law and order , with a comfort blanket from birth to death for the harsh times.

And a get out of jail free card for a bad leader, who could also blame the gods for things going badly.

Our Father Adam was no ignorant primitive savage, he came to this earth, an earth created for him and his posterity, he took along with him his wife and they replenished the earth...

He was taught in all the arts and the way of heaven, was given signs and tokens so he could discern true messengers from the false...

Never think that a faith in a loving Creator and his doctrine is the stuff of ignorant savages...

It is the foundation that creates civilization and advancement, save when corrupt men and their false religions pollute it...

That statement is of course only an opinion with no valid data to substantiate it

The fool says in his heart there is no God....

I think there is a rule on the forums about calling names !

You are directly calling me a fool for my opinion, that is offensive . I hope the mods apply the rules fairly

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By *rincess peachWoman
over a year ago

shits creek

I don't do religion, but I don't have a problem with those that do unless...

They try to ram their beliefs down my throat

They pick and choose what bits they believe in. You either believe it or you don't.

For some it gives hope.

For others it an excuse to act in a manner nobody with a good heart could bring themselves to.

For those that use it for good purposes it can only be a good thing (unless they themselves aren't living their lives how they really want to for fear of punishment)

Be A good person, help others if you can, be kind, care, and give someone a reason to smile.

I'm pretty sure if those things are done (aka - being a decent human) then you'll have no worries

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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

Maybe some people do good in the name of religion but would those same people do good without the religion? Without the fear of punishment or the hope of reward."

I think many would, it is simply a convenient place to hang your hat, likewise the 'crazies' with their bombs & wars..they would find a way anyway.

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By *lyreelMan
over a year ago

King's lynn

I still believe it can have that purpose in the modern day, provided it is used correctly and without malice.

Yes -I wholly agree -most of my rants above are to do with the absolute certainty of both camps and the lack of perspective to see that there could indeed be a commonality between both."

Your wrong there though, ask any religious person if a non believer can enter the heaven that they think they are going too! Nope, your a sinner, an infidel etc etc so you cannot get there.

There can be commonality from the non believers, but not from the faithful.

Maths and science do not enter it in any way, nothing to do with religion, you pull things out of context to suit your needs, you could be a minister in fact.

We are born, we live, we copulate and have further young, we die. That’s the process, how we choose to live is key, but fundamentally we do not need maths, science or religion to survive.

Water, food and shelter is all we need to go back to basics. I am not suggesting we do but that’s all we need as a species.

I am happy for people to believe, some people need that, but it’s not for me.

I would rather live happily with happy people!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I grew up in an atheist/agnostic family where even being spiritual was frowned upon. But I naturally leaned towards a more spiritual outlook... beit in an atheist way. That all messed up later in life when I had a god experience and was forced to acknowledge god does actually objectively exist.

Since then I've blazed my own trail independent of any of the world's faiths and with a strong critical questioning approach to all the issues surrounding this. I'm now entirely comfortable that atheists are as intellectually confused as most people in the faiths. In hindsight, and all things considered, it is far more rationally credible to believe in a god than not. But I'm rarely in the mood to bother trying to argue as much with ideologues online or off. It's just the way I see it and I'm happy with that

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By *ocbigMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

"There is a cool documentary on netflix I think its called patterns of exodus, its really interesting and archaeologists compare things they have found during digs with the events in the bible... great floods, plagues, killing of sons... and everything matches up perfectly with the bible, they even found a site where all the kings are buried but there is one grave that is not a king but was given the honour of a kings burial and when they dug up the statue of whoever the grave belongs to it was wearing an unusual bright multicoloured coat which matches up to the time and place of joseph and the technicolour dream coat. Most things have a logical explanation i guess but its still a really interesting documentary"
Must be true then...Netflix never lies...

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By *iSTARessWoman
over a year ago

London

If you want to live your life a according to fairy tales, good for you.

It's just not for me.

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By *udewhennudeMan
over a year ago

newport

I'm not particularly religious, but have the view that religion and the creator are two different things. As some posters have said religion /faith is questioning or attempting to explain how we got here.

But when we look at creation the fact that we are here could be used as proof that there is a creator. People will say well science has proved evolution, but science has not answered all the questions. Einstein tells us that e=mc squared, what he doesn't tell us is where either the mass or the energy came from in the first place. We are all, as is everything, made from mass, so it's not beyond logic to ask the question did some creator provide the energy to convert into mass. No scientist as ever been able to explain that one. With that I'll go back to watching the football.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"I grew up in an atheist/agnostic family where even being spiritual was frowned upon. But I naturally leaned towards a more spiritual outlook... beit in an atheist way. That all messed up later in life when I had a god experience and was forced to acknowledge god does actually objectively exist.

What do you mean by "God"?

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

I doubt you could articulate why you directly think I am confused ! I suggest you validate your accusations or retract your wild generalisation

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

What do you mean by "God"? "

My experience tells me the single and only connection that almost all god concepts hold is one of creator of everything

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What do you mean by "God"? "

What everyone who uses that word means... a universal mind/spirit. Only atheists are confused over what it means and their efforts to make out that there's no agreement on it is just one of those yawn arguments that don't actually add up under the microscope

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Your wrong there though, ask any religious person if a non believer can enter the heaven that they think they are going too! Nope, your a sinner, an infidel etc etc so you cannot get there.

There can be commonality from the non believers, but not from the faithful.

Maths and science do not enter it in any way, nothing to do with religion, you pull things out of context to suit your needs, you could be a minister in fact.

We are born, we live, we copulate and have further young, we die. That’s the process, how we choose to live is key, but fundamentally we do not need maths, science or religion to survive.

Water, food and shelter is all we need to go back to basics. I am not suggesting we do but that’s all we need as a species.

I am happy for people to believe, some people need that, but it’s not for me.

I would rather live happily with happy people!!

Hmmm. Do I think others can enter heaven? I don’t know. I don’t know I will enter heaven. I see no reason why others wouldn’t though.

I’ve often met with other faiths, shared their traditions and shared mine with them. Why is there no commonality between faiths? Just because we see religion differently doesn’t mean we are blind to others.

I have a maths and physics degree. I still regularly attend lectures various aspects of science.

So where do I fit in your diatribe?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I doubt you could articulate why you directly think I am confused ! I suggest you validate your accusations or retract your wild generalisation"

I could. And I doubt you'd win an argument with me over this so the feeling is entirely mutual

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

What do you mean by "God"?

My experience tells me the single and only connection that almost all god concepts hold is one of creator of everything "

Most people want God to be a lot more than that.

As I see it, the idea of a deist type God, some kind of intelligence that created the universe, but has no concern for human beings is intellectually feasible.

However the idea that there exists a God who cares and loves human beings is contrary to all the evidence. You have to engage in serious mental gymnastics to posit such a being.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

What do you mean by "God"?

Do you really not know that God has been defined on many different ways by different people?

Does this universal mind /spirit care about human beings?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What do you mean by "God"?

My experience tells me the single and only connection that almost all god concepts hold is one of creator of everything

Most people want God to be a lot more than that.

As I see it, the idea of a deist type God, some kind of intelligence that created the universe, but has no concern for human beings is intellectually feasible.

However the idea that there exists a God who cares and loves human beings is contrary to all the evidence. You have to engage in serious mental gymnastics to posit such a being. "

The deist god definitely doesn't exist by dint of it being something that's defined as existing wholly outside the universe. Seeing as "the universe" roughly translates into "that which exists", deists are actually making an atheist claim and positing the existence of a non existent god.

I would agree with you that the idea of an intervening god who favours mankind above the rest of the things in existence is a fallacy. But the idea that the basis of reality is a mind which is manifesting everything and which loves everything equally is not imo. That actually helps explain an awful lot and provides a better basis for science than atheism imo

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By *anetandNickCouple
over a year ago

Ross-on-Wye

Practising Christian, like a surprisingly large number of other Fabbers. I find it hard to understand people who claim to have never had any kind of spiritual experience in their lives. (Well, if you ask them more closely, they have, of course. They just didn't know what to make of it.)

Janet xxxxxx

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By *risky_MareWoman
over a year ago

...Up on the Downs

"How can any intelligent person believe in such tosh!

Yes, that is a more accurate perception in my mind to, lots of 'true believers' expressing their view here, atheist mostly!

I was raised with agnosticism and atheism, but have experienced, witnessed, observed or understood so much spiritual reality that is so logical, ordered, and predictable (if sometimes surprising) that I see no conflict.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

What do you mean by "God"?

My experience tells me the single and only connection that almost all god concepts hold is one of creator of everything

Most people want God to be a lot more than that.

As I see it, the idea of a deist type God, some kind of intelligence that created the universe, but has no concern for human beings is intellectually feasible.

However the idea that there exists a God who cares and loves human beings is contrary to all the evidence. You have to engage in serious mental gymnastics to posit such a being.

Does this mind exists separate from the minds of individual human beings?

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

Your wrong there though, ask any religious person if a non believer can enter the heaven that they think they are going too! Nope, your a sinner, an infidel etc etc so you cannot get there.

There can be commonality from the non believers, but not from the faithful.

Maths and science do not enter it in any way, nothing to do with religion, you pull things out of context to suit your needs, you could be a minister in fact.

We are born, we live, we copulate and have further young, we die. That’s the process, how we choose to live is key, but fundamentally we do not need maths, science or religion to survive.

Water, food and shelter is all we need to go back to basics. I am not suggesting we do but that’s all we need as a species.

I am happy for people to believe, some people need that, but it’s not for me.

I would rather live happily with happy people!!

That's a very blanket statement /narrow understanding & interpretation of faith -it somehow assumes that all people of a religion share the same view (much like any ism tries to pigeonhole people) -I for one have met many who would argue that you would be welcome in their respective religious heaven no matter your faith so long as you adhered to their respectiv religions moral code. Whether or not there is such a "place" is another issue entirely and it seems that you have completely missed the core of my point -that there are a lot more parrallels in the underlying structures behind the opinions of believers/ non-believers as to what formed/ guides their existence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Do you really not know that God has been defined on many different ways by different people?"

I've studied it extensively and superficially there's many differences. But on the essence of what god actually is there's surprising uniformity. Even among polytheistic peoples they usually have a father god of all gods who is a universal spirit. As with much else in atheism, it's an intellectually disengenuous argument with an agenda... not a factually defendable truism

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"Practising Christian, like a surprisingly large number of other Fabbers. I find it hard to understand people who claim to have never had any kind of spiritual experience in their lives. (Well, if you ask them more closely, they have, of course. They just didn't know what to make of it.)

Janet xxxxxx"

I don't think I have ever had a spiritual experience. Tell me why you think I am wrong.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What do you mean by "God"?

My experience tells me the single and only connection that almost all god concepts hold is one of creator of everything

Most people want God to be a lot more than that.

As I see it, the idea of a deist type God, some kind of intelligence that created the universe, but has no concern for human beings is intellectually feasible.

However the idea that there exists a God who cares and loves human beings is contrary to all the evidence. You have to engage in serious mental gymnastics to posit such a being.

Does this mind exists separate from the minds of individual human beings? "

I've experienced it. So it exists. That's all I can state with certainty. Is it separate from us? I'd hazard a guess that we are incarnations of it... that materialist neuroscietists are mistaken to think the brain generates mind but instead receives it like a radio. This universal consciousness is to us what our own minds are to a plant's. That's just my own feelings on the issue. But it helps make sense of a lot imo

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

" Do you really not know that God has been defined on many different ways by different people?

Oh come on. I could just as easily say, people think capitalism and communism are different, but if you look deeply, there's a surprising uniformity, both claim for example to make people happy.

If you spread the net wide enough you can point out Similarities in everything.

Are you really telling me the concept of God in Christianity is the same as in the Olympian religion?

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By *ensualtouch15Man
over a year ago

ashby de la zouch

I doubt you could articulate why you directly think I am confused ! I suggest you validate your accusations or retract your wild generalisation

I could. And I doubt you'd win an argument with me over this so the feeling is entirely mutual

Hmmm you are still directly accusing me of being confused without any justification that's a little bit personal don't you think

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

What do you mean by "God"?

My experience tells me the single and only connection that almost all god concepts hold is one of creator of everything

Most people want God to be a lot more than that.

As I see it, the idea of a deist type God, some kind of intelligence that created the universe, but has no concern for human beings is intellectually feasible.

However the idea that there exists a God who cares and loves human beings is contrary to all the evidence. You have to engage in serious mental gymnastics to posit such a being.

Does this mind exists separate from the minds of individual human beings?

I accept that you have this particular mind experience. As I haven't, your experience cannot be evidence that it exists outside your mind.

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By *urveLurverMan
over a year ago

Skyview

Janet xxxxxx"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I accept that you have this particular mind experience. As I haven't, your experience cannot be evidence that it exists outside your mind. "

I accept my experience can't be used as evidence. Yes. Such an argument is folly. Like trying to prove love exists by claiming to be in love.

As for being unable to prove god exists outside my mind. The same could be said about the material universe... and descartes did famously say pretty much that with his "I think therefore I am". At least descartes was thorough, doubting any experience that was doubtable. Atheists trust some experiences and doubt others purely based on an intellectual agenda. There's absolutely no rhyme or reason to where they delineate the existence or non existence of something. Some atheists will quite happily deny the existence of pain, love, even mind... yet accept the existence of completely unproven and unseen things such as dark matter

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In my experience of living in many places around the world, and experiencing not only many religions, but many versions of those religions, my summation is that the definition of "god" varies from person to person, even those of the same faith. This is the same for the particular religion - people interpret doctrine however is most convenient for them, and will follow the "rules" of that religion that suit them and come up with fantastic excuses as to why they don't follow the others. If you read any religious text, and replace the words god/allah/buddha/shiva etc with the word "nature", or even "circumstance", the text makes a lot more sense.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"I accept that you have this particular mind experience. As I haven't, your experience cannot be evidence that it exists outside your mind.

I accept my experience can't be used as evidence. Yes. Such an argument is folly. Like trying to prove love exists by claiming to be in love.

Obviously abstract concepts exist, but they only exist as concepts within the human mind. Unless you go down the clearly solipstic route, there clearly are material things that exist outside of and independent of the minds of human beings.

If all you mean by "God" is a feeling in your mind, then God clearly does exist, as that mind state clearly exists.

However most believers in God posits a being who exists separate from and independent of human mind states. It seems to me that there is no evidence for the existence of God in that sense.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hmmm you are still directly accusing me of being confused without any justification that's a little bit personal don't you think"

Atheists often accuse the religious or spiritual of being deluded, weak minded, irrational, fools, and confused. They always claim these aren't personal attacks, just statements of fact. Are you now conceding that such atheists have actually been personally attacking religious and spiritual people all this time? Or are you happy to concede that I'm simply stating that you're confused and intellectually compromised... just as a statement of fact?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If all you mean by "God" is a feeling in your mind, then God clearly does exist, as that mind state clearly exists.

However most believers in God posits a being who exists separate from and independent of human mind states. It seems to me that there is no evidence for the existence of God in that sense. "

As I said initially, I believe god exists objectively. By that I mean "physically" and independent of any person's mental awareness of it. Quite what "physically" means these days is in the hands of science. But it's pretty clear it isn't what most Newtonian minded atheists deludedly imagine it is

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

a little thought experiment (before we have an interfaith meltdown):

Newtons first law on the conservation of energy states: "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed". (like a system in eternal balance/ an afterlife or heaven and hell/ yin and yang etc.)

The quantum uncertainty principle states that matter can be in the form of either waves or particles (depending on what you are trying to measure) and can appear simultaneously in different locations. (like an all pervasive presence and connected logic).

Newtons Laws of Motion were largelly made redundant by Einstein's thesis on general relativity but he refused to believe in the consequence of Quantum Mechanics that came out of his theories (famously declaring that "God doesn't play dice")

Mathematics is the tool used to prove all of these theories in turn at a theoretical level well before the observable experiments were put in place to verify the theories.

Mathematics is unique in all spheres of science in that once a theory is proven it is true for all time (why else are we still using theorems from the ancient greeks). Even primitive insects make use mathematical systems (think concurrent breeding/ germination cycles used by insects , bats to coincide with plant germinations or the hexagonal honeycombs created by bees).

If I was in any way curious i would imagine that all the above was created by some level of higher intelligence -a polytheistic presence if you will.

That higher intelligence may not be a living breathing being/ or spiritual deity but it sure as hell is a lot more intelligent than we give ourselves credit for.

Call it logic/ rationality or call it religion/ irrationality -they both are looking at the same thing just from different perspectives -who are we to say who is right or wrong -none of us on this forum have the brain capacity/ mathamatical capacity to do more than make our best educated guess.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"If all you mean by "God" is a feeling in your mind, then God clearly does exist, as that mind state clearly exists.

However most believers in God posits a being who exists separate from and independent of human mind states. It seems to me that there is no evidence for the existence of God in that sense.

What evidence is there that God exists independently of feelings in people's minds?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If all you mean by "God" is a feeling in your mind, then God clearly does exist, as that mind state clearly exists.

However most believers in God posits a being who exists separate from and independent of human mind states. It seems to me that there is no evidence for the existence of God in that sense.

What evidence is there that God exists independently of feelings in people's minds? "

Science works

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Religion, faith and spirituality are different things. There are non-theistic religions and I have observed that ardent atheists treat their proselytising with religious zeal, particularly when invoking science as their argument.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Those who do believe in their God do seem happy especially when clapping and singing.

I sense a tongue in cheek there. But I, and only in my little orbit down here in sunny Wales, feel that faithless people often seem more jaded and sad. And the atheiists who just-will-not-leave-people-alone seem the saddest of all. To me!

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"a little thought experiment (before we have an interfaith meltdown):

Newtons first law on the conservation of energy states: "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed". (like a system in eternal balance/ an afterlife or heaven and hell/ yin and yang etc.)

Mathematics is the tool used to prove all of these theories in turn at a theoretical level well before the observable experiments were put in place to verify the theories.

If I was in any way curious i would imagine that all the above was created by some level of higher intelligence -a polytheistic presence if you will.

That higher intelligence may not be a living breathing being/ or spiritual deity but it sure as hell is a lot more intelligent than we give ourselves credit for.

I don't believe in God in the sense as he is traditionally concieved in the monotheistic religions. That is a being who cares about human beings and wants was is good for them. It seems to me that the evidence that such a being doesn't exist is overwhelming.

As to whether there is some kind of nebulous wider intelligence that you might call God, I am pretty neutral. As this intelligence can't intervene to alter the world as God is traditionally supposed to do, it seems to me unimportant as to whether or not this thing exists

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"If all you mean by "God" is a feeling in your mind, then God clearly does exist, as that mind state clearly exists.

However most believers in God posits a being who exists separate from and independent of human mind states. It seems to me that there is no evidence for the existence of God in that sense.

What evidence is there that God exists independently of feelings in people's minds?

Science works "

All that is evidence of is that there is a some regularity in the universe. I suppose you can call that God if you like m

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If all you mean by "God" is a feeling in your mind, then God clearly does exist, as that mind state clearly exists.

However most believers in God posits a being who exists separate from and independent of human mind states. It seems to me that there is no evidence for the existence of God in that sense.

What evidence is there that God exists independently of feelings in people's minds?

Science works

All that is evidence of is that there is a some regularity in the universe. I suppose you can call that God if you like m"

Not really. Given what we now know, that we're just a bunch of apes on a spinning rock, we have absolutely no right to be decoding the workings of the universe. To suggest as much is sheer lunacy.... except if you can account in some way for these apes having access to intelligence beyond their own

This is the absurd cognitive dissonance at the heart of atheism... it worships human reason but has absolutely no idea of how to account for it.

I liked your previous statement... except that I believe the existence of such an underlying intelligence is deeply important even if it doesn't intervene.... firstly because it's our parent but also because it's such an important underpinning to the rest of western thought

"I don't believe in God in the sense as he is traditionally concieved in the monotheistic religions. That is a being who cares about human beings and wants was is good for them. It seems to me that the evidence that such a being doesn't exist is overwhelming.

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

"I don't believe in God in the sense as he is traditionally concieved in the monotheistic religions. "

believe it or not neither do I.

" As to whether there is some kind of nebulous wider intelligence that you might call God, I am pretty neutral. As this intelligence can't intervene to alter the world as God is traditionally supposed to do, it seems to me unimportant as to whether or not this thing exists

I never said whether or not such a higher level of intelligence did / wanted to or was effective in their interventions -and even if they/ it did interfere with our day too day lives, who's to say theat the outcomes weren't as intended or would even align with our somewhat limited intelligence/ moral code?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A really powerful system for law and order , with a comfort blanket from birth to death for the harsh times.

And a get out of jail free card for a bad leader, who could also blame the gods for things going badly.

Our Father Adam was no ignorant primitive savage, he came to this earth, an earth created for him and his posterity, he took along with him his wife and they replenished the earth...

He was taught in all the arts and the way of heaven, was given signs and tokens so he could discern true messengers from the false...

Never think that a faith in a loving Creator and his doctrine is the stuff of ignorant savages...

It is the foundation that creates civilization and advancement, save when corrupt men and their false religions pollute it...

That statement is of course only an opinion with no valid data to substantiate it

The fool says in his heart there is no God....

I think there is a rule on the forums about calling names !

You are directly calling me a fool for my opinion, that is offensive . I hope the mods apply the rules fairly "

Not calling you a fool, the Jewish Prophets of old are....

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"If all you mean by "God" is a feeling in your mind, then God clearly does exist, as that mind state clearly exists.

However most believers in God posits a being who exists separate from and independent of human mind states. It seems to me that there is no evidence for the existence of God in that sense.

What evidence is there that God exists independently of feelings in people's minds?

Science works

All that is evidence of is that there is a some regularity in the universe. I suppose you can call that God if you like m

This is the absurd cognitive dissonance at the heart of atheism... it worships human reason but has absolutely no idea of how to account for it.

It's not a cognitive dissonance. All atheism is is a non belief in God. It doesn't require a positive theory as to the origin of everything. Unlike most religious types atheists are not so arrogant as to belief there particular internal emotions disclose the secrets of the universe.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes I believe in God. Have always believed

Tanya

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

they say there are no atheists in a fox hole

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If all you mean by "God" is a feeling in your mind, then God clearly does exist, as that mind state clearly exists.

However most believers in God posits a being who exists separate from and independent of human mind states. It seems to me that there is no evidence for the existence of God in that sense.

What evidence is there that God exists independently of feelings in people's minds?

Science works

All that is evidence of is that there is a some regularity in the universe. I suppose you can call that God if you like m

This is the absurd cognitive dissonance at the heart of atheism... it worships human reason but has absolutely no idea of how to account for it.

Firstly, atheism does not state that there absolutely is no god, more that there is no reason to suppose that there is (god could rectify that in a moment if he so wished,incidentally).

Secondly, I don't know of anyone who worships reason. It's more that it is a tool that we lnow is at our disposal, the only tool we really have for thinking about complex matters.

Thirdly, it may seem quite obvious to many of us that there is some force in the universe beyond our understanding.After all,the universe was created somehow and any force with the ability to create a universe is,As near as dammit,god.

However,even if we suppose the existence of a higher force,there is a lot of work to do to demonstrate that it cares about us,knows that we are even here or that it intercede on our behalf, answers prayers and takes sides in wars or disputes.To call such a theoretical higher force god is therefore a bit misleading.

Scientists and atheists do not claim to have all the answers but (the ones with integrity) are trying to work them out.

Religions of various types do claim to have those answers but based on ancient texts written in times when people were trying to make sense of a universe which doesn't make sense with the limited knowledge of those times.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A really powerful system for law and order , with a comfort blanket from birth to death for the harsh times.

And a get out of jail free card for a bad leader, who could also blame the gods for things going badly.

Our Father Adam was no ignorant primitive savage, he came to this earth, an earth created for him and his posterity, he took along with him his wife and they replenished the earth...

He was taught in all the arts and the way of heaven, was given signs and tokens so he could discern true messengers from the false...

Never think that a faith in a loving Creator and his doctrine is the stuff of ignorant savages...

It is the foundation that creates civilization and advancement, save when corrupt men and their false religions pollute it...

How do I distinguish between a true religious and a false one "

A good question with a simple answer...

James brother of Jesus and an Apostle said.....

If any man lack wisdom he only has to ask God whom gives generously to those that ask Him in sincerity...

Jesus also said ...

Anybody that come unto me and asks shall surely recieve...

So the key is to ask God Himself, for instance, do you exist, do I have a purpose in life, what Church is yours and so forth...

Gods challenges to mankind to seek Him out in sincere prayer and He has promised to answer their prayers....

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

A really powerful system for law and order , with a comfort blanket from birth to death for the harsh times.

And a get out of jail free card for a bad leader, who could also blame the gods for things going badly.

Our Father Adam was no ignorant primitive savage, he came to this earth, an earth created for him and his posterity, he took along with him his wife and they replenished the earth...

He was taught in all the arts and the way of heaven, was given signs and tokens so he could discern true messengers from the false...

Never think that a faith in a loving Creator and his doctrine is the stuff of ignorant savages...

It is the foundation that creates civilization and advancement, save when corrupt men and their false religions pollute it...

How do I distinguish between a true religious and a false one

A good question with a simple answer...

James brother of Jesus and an Apostle said.....

If any man lack wisdom he only has to ask God whom gives generously to those that ask Him in sincerity...

Jesus also said ...

Anybody that come unto me and asks shall surely recieve...

So the key is to ask God Himself, for instance, do you exist, do I have a purpose in life, what Church is yours and so forth...

Gods challenges to mankind to seek Him out in sincere prayer and He has promised to answer their prayers...."

Hang on a minute, you're begging the question and telling me Christianity is the true religion. Why should I believe Christianity is true rather than, say, Islam or Judaism?

I took your advice and asked God but all I got was a resounding silence, so I am no further forward.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A really powerful system for law and order , with a comfort blanket from birth to death for the harsh times.

And a get out of jail free card for a bad leader, who could also blame the gods for things going badly.

Our Father Adam was no ignorant primitive savage, he came to this earth, an earth created for him and his posterity, he took along with him his wife and they replenished the earth...

He was taught in all the arts and the way of heaven, was given signs and tokens so he could discern true messengers from the false...

Never think that a faith in a loving Creator and his doctrine is the stuff of ignorant savages...

It is the foundation that creates civilization and advancement, save when corrupt men and their false religions pollute it..."

That is a very different version of the story of Adam and Eve than the one in my Bible. I suppose I could have spent the extra money and bought a King James bible instead of £6.99 on a New International Version.

This raises an interesting point (interesting to me at least).

That the bible has undergone many forms and different translations from Hebrew to Greek to Latin. Can there really be said to be a definitive version of the texts?

If so, what is the point of having any other version? And if not, how can anybody claim that their particular favourite is actually the word of god?

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"they say there are no atheists in a fox hole"

And they talk bollocks when they say that.